You can use a similar approach to estimate your mental ability scores (INT, WIS, CHA) as you did your physical ability scores (STR, DEX CON), which is to invent a way to perform each of the standard tests for each ability score. E.g. A test of your investigation skills and history knowledge to determine your INT, a test of your perception and medical knowledge to calculate your WIS and a test of persuasion and intimidation to determine your CHA.
I feel like Grace started out pretty shy in the first episodes, but with time she's getting more and more confident and soon the channel will change the its name to "Grace World Destroyer (and Bob)".
Something dnd doesn't account for (or mostly doesn't) is strength vs. proportional strength. So Bob is really good at climbing walls/ropes because his is light, but his absolute strength based on how much he can lift is low. Some dnd rules like carrying capacity do take into account creature size, but those are broad categories that don't distinguish between small and medium creatures. I like the CoC way of having a score for Strength and Size from which speed is determined.
I have been climbing for 7 years and currently run an ongoing D&D game with a bunch of my climber friends so I was especially looking forward to this video! Some things to note, because I also have informally tried to challenge myself to climb 15 feet in 6 seconds and other speed challenges: - I was able to do 15 feet in 6 seconds BUT only on what I would consider easier rated walls (V1-V2) for myself on a boulder wall (with no rope). On top rope I was able to do it on walls up to the 5.9 rating. Also I was wearing climbing shoes and had chalk. Both are tools specifically designed to enhance your climbing which a normal adventurer probably wouldn't have. Since adventurers wear boots and may be wearing gloves, these actually inhibit climbing and make it harder. (In fact we joked that the Boots of Climbing magic item is actually just a pair of broken in climbing shoes). - New climbers or those who don't climb often have their hands shredded and often find themselves in pain from the friction that rough holds give. An average climber's hands have more callouses that protect the hands making it a lot easier to climb. - I also am able to clear a 40 foot speed climbing wall in around 11 seconds. This is only because speed climbing walls are standardized and the same anywhere you go. Essentially you climb the same exact wall over and over and over and memorize the movements to get muscle memory and a faster climb. Speed climbing walls are generally around 50ft high and competitors easily can clear it in 6-7 seconds with the world record being 5.2 seconds! I 100% agree with your disposition in this video and that the climbing rules in D&D are really ambitious. I was able to do it, only because I have years of experience, proper gear and equipment for aid, and overall work out the specific muscles friendly to climbing more than an average adventurer probably would. Additionally adventurers are waaay more athletic in a general sense, they are carrying gear, hiking miles, fighting, and wearing clothing that is not compatible with climbing like boots and gloves. That being said, there is a huge blend in community between climbers and D&D (and other TTRPG games) where I am from! I absolutely love this series and its always fun getting to watch your favorite content creators shedding light on what you love! Thank you for this!
That makes your class a monk basically. No armor, no gloves and light footwear. So the monk climb feature which assumes a bit of super human feats for adventurers makes sense. I think climbing speed RAW only works for ladders or heights 10 feet or below where the initial jump momentum plays a way bigger role. This also makes spider climb and similar features way more important exploration and escape wise than some people may think.
My theory: I think Bob may actually be a Hobgoblin, but one of peace, in touch with his Fey roots. Fighter? Probably samurai; he's so calm, so in tune with nature. Stephen the Animal? A Bugbear, perhaps? Big, strong, unseen, but often heard, always in stealth mode behind the camera. The Bugbear Rogue is formidable, and comfortable in his blanket. Grace? ...Goblin Warlock seems pretty spot on. She is cunning, just waiting for her chance to strike and tell us not to build. What are her true goals? No one knows...not even her. Great video! The dedication to putting the PHB rules through its paces are incredible, thank you all so much!
I'm actually kind of amazed at how many of these are very accurate! Makes you wonder if WOTC did very similar tests. Imagine Jeremy Crawford struggling over that wall 😂
If you look at the series as a whole some seem more coincidental, However they likely did do some similar tests, WotC likes mathematics in their games and D&D most of all.
The production value on this series keeps going up! It's great. Would you consider your characters to be proficient in Athletics? You at least seem to know how to use a "climbing kit".
Tbf you get given an induction so everyone is relatively proficient in the climbing gym. Proficiency would come into play if they were lead climbing outdoors or setting up a top rope outdoors
Charisma, there's the easy tests (Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion), which might be best tested against unsuspecting (but willing?) subjects. Performance should be fairly easy; just pick a talent, and show it off the best you can. You could also test calm under pressure, how you handle stress.
For charisma scores, there are many games that rely a on bluffing that test your deception, performance persuasion. E.g. Sheriff of Nottingham, Liars Dice or Spoof.
Deception works with charisma, right? You could play one truth two lies or something like that. But first you'd have to find Waldo to get your Wisdom Score, so you can make sure that the other person doesn't have just ridiculously high wisdom
Ideas for charisma. 1) trying to get a discount on an item at a random store 2) dressing up (or down) and see if people in a public space look at you 3) saying a joke to a random person and getting their reaction 4) trying to sell a random person a worthless type object 5) smile 😁 at someone and trying to get them to smile back
Watching you guys climb. And there are no coniferous trees. They have branches lower down and make for better climbing. Amazing skill everyone and a great video again!!!
Goblins have 30 ft. movement speed, though. 5e PC races with 25 ft. walking speed include: Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings, Aarakocra, and Grung (although Grungs also have a climbing speed of 25 ft.). Maybe she's one of those races instead? I'd say she's not stocky enough to be a dwarf, but perhaps she's a halfling or a gnome? I'd say most likely a halfling since they don't have darkvision.
Charisma test should be giving compliments to strangers and see how many smiles you can rack up. Then just normalize the values between 0-20 : ) Side note, I never really liked the naming of "charisma" since it gives most people the idea of schmoozing someone when we also use it to intimidate! And it makes even less sense in the context of spell casting for sorcerers and such. I like to use "willpower" like Star Wars when I describe it to new players to give it the full breadth it deserves.
That is why i suggested they ratter make an Emotional Intelligence test. Its about comprehending your emotions and the emotions of others and your ability to use that knowledge to your advantage. But i don't think it would be as enterteinig as complementing random people on the street XD.
@@jjman147 wisdom is the opposite of intellect in game mechanics for me. Intellect is knowing stuff. Wisdom is being able to figure stuff out or using intuition. I base a lot of these explanations on the associated checks. Like identifying a plant to me is a nature check, not a survival check. But survival is wisdom and not intellect because its about you applying a skill set to a novel situation.
Charisma should be a persuasion of people to say hi to your camera or take a flyer, how many people you can convince of a lie about your self, and showing a short clip to several people of you trying to intimidate them and ask for a rating of 1-10/1-20 The more people who you calculate their score, the more accurate you can be.
Yess great video! For a charisma video, maybe a structured debate for persuasion, and trying to intimidate each other with just the words you're saying and how you're saying them? That's definitely a tough one though, excited to see what you guys do with that!!
you guys are adorable. Thanks for doing this whole series! Good stuff! p.s. I'm also an avid climber and have many issues with D&D rules around climbing. However, I love how easy they are to run... So, I simply bite my tongue and keep gaming. hehe
For Charisma try convincing strangers to help you in something that takes a few minutes, maybe holding some item while you're working with it, something to do with paint?
This remembered me seeing my father, when he was like 40, climbing a tree, like that one Bob failed, like it was nothing. I thought "I will be like him when I grow up" but looks like I failed miserably
Speaking of charisma, that gentle hand placed on Grace's shoulder in the intro as you let her say her silly line must've been a nat 20. Wholesome content.
Cool to see the slope climbing times matched up! I agree that anything beyond a slope, a ladder or climbing on a table probably needs an athletics check, with the DM deciding how far the result gets you. Trove :)
Loved this episode! Especially how spot on the difficult terrain was. Still I wouldn't necessarily say that movement speed doesn't apply to climbing - more accurately, walking speed doesn't apply. Humans definitely don't have a "climbing speed" so that's true in that case, but races like tortle and tabaxi and spiders have claws or other different types of appendages that make climbing vertical surfaces much easier
I’m new to DnD in my 40s. Your videos are very helpful and help expand how I can approach the game. I end up DMing but this sort of stuff helps me work with the PCs to understand things.
Pretty sure 3rd edition was the last edition Gygax had any input in, and quite a bit has changed from then, namely that you don't need to make a roll to climb, which can severely impact your climb speed, either from not advancing at all in a single turn, or actually falling, and that the base speed is half rather than a quarter. Though both do cover half to quarter speed for various reasons.
This really is quite the treasure trove of info. Implementing the weapons homebrew with my group and they seem to enjoy it. Cant wait to see what all comes next with the charisma. I would recommend something but ive definitely got a negative modifier.
Excellent videos all! Please keep them coming! A few other things to consider, maybe? 1. Body shapes/sizes. Tall and thin, short and stocky, or a typical normal build. Or perhaps, a normal weight, but either short-waisted with long legs, or long-waisted with shorter legs. All of these kinds of body builds would affect one's ability checks in a variety of ways. 2. Additional knowledge or skills that could improve your ability check results. i.e. Climbing lore that teaches you other ways to climb. (Such as wrapping cord around both ankles, making one large loop of cord. That loop grabs onto the tree bark, giving a wider area of contact.) I know that D&D allows you to have some of this additional knowledge, but do they take into account a person's body build?
One thing D&D doesn’t represent is that it’s not just about STR when climbing, but about STR to weight ratio. Bob does much better with the wall and plain rope not because his strength score is higher than StA’s, but because he’s carrying a lighter frame and none of them are wearing gear. Also Bob is clearly trained in athletics even though he’s a Dex build.
For the charisma test, mostly people think it's just about how good you look. Is more like your strength of your mind. Your presence of spirit that affect other around you to like you. Maybe a test of make friend to a random person, a test of how long you can private you for something... Something related to the skill check related to charisma. Just an idea.
bob really shows how it's not about strength alone but mostly technic the way he climb the wall and the tree. without the prober technic, you will have to use 2 to 3 times the strength to do the job
For climbing just a straight rope, if you're the only one on a rope or you're the one at the bottom you can wrap it around the inside of your shin, around your ankle, and over the top of your foot and step on it. It hurts to do for a long time but you can use it to help hold your weight while you reset your hands and you can climb faster with less effort
Trove!! I love watching these on my days off! For charisma the idea I have is to go to a swap meet of some sort with items of comparable value and see who can make the most $$$.
For charisma you could join toastmasters and get their feedback about a short persuasive talk. Possibly open mic night to see who gets the most laughs. Seeing who can get the biggest discount on the same item would also be interesting (e.g. everyone tries to get a discount on trail runners at a sporting goods store, or a free beverage from the staff at the local tavern).
I love how much thought you guys put into these videos, seeing all the hard work people put into their hobbies makes me want to do better and go farther with my own stuff. Specifically D&D, but ya know, in general. Also, we have very similar body types Bob, so I'm basing my stats on yours 😅
Something to consider is, quote: "At the DM’s option, climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with few handholds requires a successful Strength (Athletics) check" PHB This means that, on surfaces other than easy surfaces (vertical with plenty of places to grab or inclined with enough handholds) will require a strength check. As a DM, I will ask for a check and set 2 DCs. One for climbing at half your speed and one for climbing at 1/4 speed. E.g. climbing your last wall, with negative angles and just a few handholds, DC 25 for half speed, DC 15 for 1/4 speed, less than that is a fail.
Charisma check challenge: 1) spark up a nice conversation with a stranger in a public place for a decent amount of time. {Your discretion on what that is.} 2) come up with a series of tasks that are simple and interesting {e.g. a scavenger hunt, a small escape room, ect.} And have random people sign up to help, with the understanding that they will fallow one of you guys to accomplish the task, and then give each participant a small survey asking them to rank/score your leadership ability. [Probably on a scale of 1-5/1-10] 3) try to put on a show with sober karaoke, {I don't know if any of you drink much. And karaoke is often done by people who have had a few drinks from what I've heard.} And see if you can get/keep hype going during your song. This covers a few of the bullet points of charisma, speaking one on one with someone out of nowhere is daunting to some, so that would get a decent base line of comfort with how you are around people. Leadership is a slightly overlooked feat of good Charisma, so leading a small group of five or so people to accomplish something slightly challenging, while not delegating too much, and ignoring everyone while you work on/figure out the problem will test this adequately enough to get a better idea of your score. Then the performance is the standard jump to for charisma. And confidently walking in front of a room full of strangers and not instantly killing the mood is an important part of karaoke. All these should be useful to help determine your charisma score. Because if you do exceptionally well in all of these, you probably have a score 16-18. If you're not good in one or two, but great/decent in the others. you're score is most likely around 10-15. And being not that great at any of these means you probably have a 5-9 charisma. If you want to really push yourselves, try taking two groups through the tasks. one smaller, maybe 4 or 5, and one larger, like around 10 people. And I recommend not making your own tasks either, familiarity with something makes it easier to lead people through it.
For Charisma put the world builder and world destroyer on opposite entrances to the grocery store and sell girl scout cookies to see who sells the most for the win. Or since we are getting to Christmas time dress up in Santa outfits to combine deception checks and raise some money for a charity.
This is like several months too late but when you climb straight up a rope like that, you're supposed to loop it around one foot and trap it between your feet, to use it as a foothold. But also I'm just really impressed Bob has so much upper body strength, was NOT expecting any of that XD
Super interesting! As a relatively experienced rock climber( a bit over 8 years in a variety of styles) I saw this, and I was thinking about timing myself on similar climbing tests to see if that matches it more closely. But I'm probably going to forget to do this when I next go climbing.
I honestly would love to see a system in place that instead of being based around number of actions you have, it is a stamina system. So you would have a set amount of stamina to use in a given round, and any actions you might take have a stamina cost that is spent to do them. So a normal attack might cost you four stamina, while a heavy attack might cost you 8-10 point, spell casting might cost 4-15 stamina based on the spell. Movement could be based on what kind of movement, how fast it is, and what terrain you are moving over. You could use the fact of a base stamina amount that is ajusted based on what armor, gear, and how much you are carrying.
Love this concept and great video! Just fun info, there is a way to climb a rope with no knots a lot easier by using you feet to create leverage! The army rangers do it, idk about the other branches. Really cool to see, I imagine harder than it looks lol but worth learning if you want to be the speediest adventurer you can be lol
You say that a rope does not give a benefit to climbing, but the DC for climbing is considerably lower with a rope than without. Climb checks can be given every round (especially during combat or stressful situations). Being slowed down in climbing isn't usually to do with your speed, but to do with not making progress, or even falling. Also, when you were climbing the rope up the tree, none of you used your feet to twist the rope around one foot so that can stand on the rope by having the other foot on the rope-twisted foot. This makes rope climbing way more about leg strength than about arm strength. takes a few minutes to learn, but it makes climbing SO MUCH easier!
Technique plays a huge rule in all of these also. If you grabbed the rope between your feet you'd have a way easier time going up, if you kick off the wall right you basically launch yourself up easily and if you only use two points of contact on a tree you can get up faster but it's more dangerous
RAW the Thief shouldn't disregard any of this just because their climbing speed is 30 instead of 15 ft. However, in my home game (and many others I suspect), our Thief runs straight up trees and walls all the time, no questions asked. If another character attempts that, the DM asks for an Athletics check (like they ought to do for the Thief). Thiefs have little else going for them, so it's fine - if only I was able to unsee this video 🙈
Performance might be the closest to a standardized test you could do for charisma, doing complex dance, intricate music, party tricks, etc. Also performance has the benefit of not necessarily requiring you to subject unknowing people to recorded and documented testing of how they react to a stranger trying to persuade them, scare them or lie to them.
I am truely suprised how accurate the values from the books are - and, as always, thank you for sacrificing yourself by testing them... Regarding your tests of CHA: it is the one to which I think it is the most complicated to define a value for... Maybe a series of tests: Performance should be easy, just sing, dance or something like that - maybe take a guitar or another instrument, go to a street corner and make music or something like that (be warned, depending on the city you need a permit for something like that, and in times of corona...). For Deception and Persuasion - the classic "Hütchenspiel" (sry, I don't know the English term for it, it's a classic scam, 3 objects and a small ball placed under one of them and you have to guess under which the ball is ... - deception to make people believe it is under on specific object, persuasion to make them change the object of their choice). Leadership is almost impossible to define, same is true for beauty, and any kind of "inspiring aura" of a person depends on those you want to influence... On the other hand, intimidation should not be tested on CHA at all - let's be honest, if there is some guy robbing me while pointing a shotgun at me (or, more dnd, a crossbow) I absolutely don't care if that guy is looking like a mix of goblin and troll or looking like a model, he will get what he wants because he is armed - and even if he is just a gigantic slab of muscles without the slightest bit of charism, if he is cracking his knuckles on fists the size of my head while telling me "give gold or me be killing you" , there is a high probability I will do what he wants because I am intimidated (read: scared sh*tless)
TROVE Here are some ideas for Charisma score (Not sure if they are good ideas but my best try) Start a conversation with a stranger and convince them to check out your channel casually. However you'll need to succeed on an insight check to actually know if it works so the next one is better - Do a street performance(if you can) and see how many people you attract.
![เปิด อาณาจักร หมื่นล้าน "สาระตั้ม" l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3XE0nPF4YkQ/mqdefault.jpg)
💥 Kobold's Trove (save 10% w/ code 'BOB'): koboldstrove.com/bobworldbuilder
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Trove!!
You can use a similar approach to estimate your mental ability scores (INT, WIS, CHA) as you did your physical ability scores (STR, DEX CON), which is to invent a way to perform each of the standard tests for each ability score.
E.g. A test of your investigation skills and history knowledge to determine your INT, a test of your perception and medical knowledge to calculate your WIS and a test of persuasion and intimidation to determine your CHA.
I feel like Grace started out pretty shy in the first episodes, but with time she's getting more and more confident and soon the channel will change the its name to "Grace World Destroyer (and Bob)".
Yeah we’ve all gotten more comfortable on camera over time! And yes I think her CHA score may conquer us all
@@BobWorldBuilder You better start building... Cuz this world is surely doomed...
And steven the fake gamer girl
This title has jay and silent bob vibes to it and I love it.
Something dnd doesn't account for (or mostly doesn't) is strength vs. proportional strength. So Bob is really good at climbing walls/ropes because his is light, but his absolute strength based on how much he can lift is low. Some dnd rules like carrying capacity do take into account creature size, but those are broad categories that don't distinguish between small and medium creatures. I like the CoC way of having a score for Strength and Size from which speed is determined.
Totally! Probably part of what makes halfling rogues so effective
Sounds to me like proficiency in Athletics with average STR
Kinetic strength v explosive strength.
If the DM I'd account for this by giving things like climbing the option to roll strength or dex.
I was about to say the same thing, but you actually say it better than i could, great job.
I have been climbing for 7 years and currently run an ongoing D&D game with a bunch of my climber friends so I was especially looking forward to this video!
Some things to note, because I also have informally tried to challenge myself to climb 15 feet in 6 seconds and other speed challenges:
- I was able to do 15 feet in 6 seconds BUT only on what I would consider easier rated walls (V1-V2) for myself on a boulder wall (with no rope). On top rope I was able to do it on walls up to the 5.9 rating. Also I was wearing climbing shoes and had chalk. Both are tools specifically designed to enhance your climbing which a normal adventurer probably wouldn't have. Since adventurers wear boots and may be wearing gloves, these actually inhibit climbing and make it harder. (In fact we joked that the Boots of Climbing magic item is actually just a pair of broken in climbing shoes).
- New climbers or those who don't climb often have their hands shredded and often find themselves in pain from the friction that rough holds give. An average climber's hands have more callouses that protect the hands making it a lot easier to climb.
- I also am able to clear a 40 foot speed climbing wall in around 11 seconds. This is only because speed climbing walls are standardized and the same anywhere you go. Essentially you climb the same exact wall over and over and over and memorize the movements to get muscle memory and a faster climb. Speed climbing walls are generally around 50ft high and competitors easily can clear it in 6-7 seconds with the world record being 5.2 seconds!
I 100% agree with your disposition in this video and that the climbing rules in D&D are really ambitious. I was able to do it, only because I have years of experience, proper gear and equipment for aid, and overall work out the specific muscles friendly to climbing more than an average adventurer probably would. Additionally adventurers are waaay more athletic in a general sense, they are carrying gear, hiking miles, fighting, and wearing clothing that is not compatible with climbing like boots and gloves.
That being said, there is a huge blend in community between climbers and D&D (and other TTRPG games) where I am from! I absolutely love this series and its always fun getting to watch your favorite content creators shedding light on what you love!
Thank you for this!
That makes your class a monk basically. No armor, no gloves and light footwear. So the monk climb feature which assumes a bit of super human feats for adventurers makes sense. I think climbing speed RAW only works for ladders or heights 10 feet or below where the initial jump momentum plays a way bigger role. This also makes spider climb and similar features way more important exploration and escape wise than some people may think.
I knew it! I had a hunch that climbing 15 feet in 6 seconds was the type of stuff only dedicated or even pro climbers could do.
Thanks for sharing the insight from a pro. We were all wondering about how that would compare.
Your research is astounding! Thanks for commenting :)
This is awesome
Well done man!
As an avid rock climber I had just assumed they had to be talking about a ladder with how fast those speeds were!
Or the characters were going up 5.5's
Yeah I think ladders and slopes with ropes are probably the only sensible climbs for those times!
When the adventures bring really strange stairs everywhere
My theory: I think Bob may actually be a Hobgoblin, but one of peace, in touch with his Fey roots. Fighter? Probably samurai; he's so calm, so in tune with nature.
Stephen the Animal? A Bugbear, perhaps? Big, strong, unseen, but often heard, always in stealth mode behind the camera. The Bugbear Rogue is formidable, and comfortable in his blanket.
Grace? ...Goblin Warlock seems pretty spot on. She is cunning, just waiting for her chance to strike and tell us not to build. What are her true goals? No one knows...not even her.
Great video! The dedication to putting the PHB rules through its paces are incredible, thank you all so much!
Haha, I love these suggestions. The only hitch is that I recently realized goblins have a 30ft speed! Maybe Grace is a deep gnome?
My favourite series on TH-cam is backkk
Please accept this offering oh algorithm gods
Haha thank you for your offering! I’m sure the mighty algorithm will accept 🙌
Don't mind me, just dropping by and leaving likes.
I'm actually kind of amazed at how many of these are very accurate! Makes you wonder if WOTC did very similar tests. Imagine Jeremy Crawford struggling over that wall 😂
If you look at the series as a whole some seem more coincidental,
However they likely did do some similar tests,
WotC likes mathematics in their games and D&D most of all.
Haha we need to get Jeremy Crawford as a guest star lol
The rules for movement and such haven't changed much in 50 years...
The production value on this series keeps going up! It's great. Would you consider your characters to be proficient in Athletics? You at least seem to know how to use a "climbing kit".
Ahh proficiency is a great point!
Tbf you get given an induction so everyone is relatively proficient in the climbing gym. Proficiency would come into play if they were lead climbing outdoors or setting up a top rope outdoors
I like that you finished it by standing right next to 'Climbing wall closed, do not use' sign like rebels!
The secret is that Stephen and I are technically allowed to use it :P
@@BobWorldBuilder Unexpected first world anarchy!
Charisma, there's the easy tests (Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion), which might be best tested against unsuspecting (but willing?) subjects.
Performance should be fairly easy; just pick a talent, and show it off the best you can.
You could also test calm under pressure, how you handle stress.
Talent show?? maybe
would calm under pressure be Charisma? or would it be more of a wisdom saving throw type deal?
For charisma scores, there are many games that rely a on bluffing that test your deception, performance persuasion. E.g. Sheriff of Nottingham, Liars Dice or Spoof.
Amogus
I'm definitely terrible at deception, so I don't think this will go well for me haha
Charisma score: go out and try to make friends with a complete stranger. Then ask that stranger later how well they did!
My anxiety about this suggestion is telling me I have a low CHA lol
@@BobWorldBuilder oh I would be terrible at it to my anxiety is the worst 😂
Deception works with charisma, right? You could play one truth two lies or something like that.
But first you'd have to find Waldo to get your Wisdom Score, so you can make sure that the other person doesn't have just ridiculously high wisdom
Define make friends and imagine asking whoever you just made friends with how well you did at making friends with them
Charisma is not persuasion. It uses charisma. Charisma is more the strength of your presence.
Ideas for charisma. 1) trying to get a discount on an item at a random store 2) dressing up (or down) and see if people in a public space look at you 3) saying a joke to a random person and getting their reaction 4) trying to sell a random person a worthless type object 5) smile 😁 at someone and trying to get them to smile back
I like all these ideas, but the camera needs to be hidden. People act differently when they are being filmed.
My anxiety about all these suggestions involving strangers is telling me I have a low CHA lol
Watching you guys climb. And there are no coniferous trees. They have branches lower down and make for better climbing.
Amazing skill everyone and a great video again!!!
That’s a great point! I’ve climbed many such trees as a kid, but at least we these we didn’t get our hands all sappy haha
The wall climb is a good demo of how the d20 roll matters. Someone with higher strength getting a lower roll is like trying to climb with poor form.
Totally!
Goblins have 30 ft. movement speed, though. 5e PC races with 25 ft. walking speed include: Dwarves, Gnomes, Halflings, Aarakocra, and Grung (although Grungs also have a climbing speed of 25 ft.). Maybe she's one of those races instead? I'd say she's not stocky enough to be a dwarf, but perhaps she's a halfling or a gnome? I'd say most likely a halfling since they don't have darkvision.
Wow you're right! Idk how we've missed that. Great point about darkvision too! That really limits our options!
Singing is part of charisma,
So karaoke night it is.
please no
@@BobWorldBuilder PLEASE YES
Performance check :)
Oh you have performance anxiety? Performance at disadvantage. :)
Charisma test should be giving compliments to strangers and see how many smiles you can rack up. Then just normalize the values between 0-20 : )
Side note, I never really liked the naming of "charisma" since it gives most people the idea of schmoozing someone when we also use it to intimidate! And it makes even less sense in the context of spell casting for sorcerers and such. I like to use "willpower" like Star Wars when I describe it to new players to give it the full breadth it deserves.
I use willpower to describe wisdom. Just curious how you would describe it?
That is why i suggested they ratter make an Emotional Intelligence test. Its about comprehending your emotions and the emotions of others and your ability to use that knowledge to your advantage.
But i don't think it would be as enterteinig as complementing random people on the street XD.
@@jjman147 wisdom is the opposite of intellect in game mechanics for me. Intellect is knowing stuff. Wisdom is being able to figure stuff out or using intuition. I base a lot of these explanations on the associated checks.
Like identifying a plant to me is a nature check, not a survival check. But survival is wisdom and not intellect because its about you applying a skill set to a novel situation.
@@Gaston-Melchiori haha, exactly! An EQ test or whatever is probably more appropriate, but not video friendly, unfortunately.
@@ImJoegath for me is the opposite, intelligence is intuition, wisdom is experience.
10:00 Bob: has firmly rooted tree
Also Bob: Lets tie the rope to a canoe!
I've always ruled it that going straight up reduces you to a crawl and climbing gear gives you advantage on the check
That makes a lot of sense!
Time to calculate Bob's charisma score off of how many of us he can get to sign up for dScryb
Haha, we test who can write the best ad? I'm sure dScryb would enjoy that :P
Charisma should be a persuasion of people to say hi to your camera or take a flyer, how many people you can convince of a lie about your self, and showing a short clip to several people of you trying to intimidate them and ask for a rating of 1-10/1-20
The more people who you calculate their score, the more accurate you can be.
How many phone numbers can you get?
All these CHA suggestions involving strangers is proving to myself that my CHA is low because I do not want to do that :P
Yess great video! For a charisma video, maybe a structured debate for persuasion, and trying to intimidate each other with just the words you're saying and how you're saying them? That's definitely a tough one though, excited to see what you guys do with that!!
We're actually leaning towards something like that: choosing a score for our selves and having to convince the others of why we serve that score
you guys are adorable. Thanks for doing this whole series! Good stuff!
p.s. I'm also an avid climber and have many issues with D&D rules around climbing. However, I love how easy they are to run... So, I simply bite my tongue and keep gaming. hehe
Haha thanks! Yes, we often have to suspend our disbelief for the game!
TROVE
This video series (and the channel too!) has been one of my favorite recent finds. Keep up the great investigations!!
8:29 That's a solid dismount by Grace. I like how naturally you all come off on camera.
It would be interesting if only certain classes actually gained climbing as a proficiency.
Great video, guys. 😀
Rangers definitely need that! exploring nature is their whole specialty!
That would be cool!
Are t there some classes like Ranger that gain a climb speed so in a sense they become proficient in it?
For Charisma try convincing strangers to help you in something that takes a few minutes, maybe holding some item while you're working with it, something to do with paint?
This remembered me seeing my father, when he was like 40, climbing a tree, like that one Bob failed, like it was nothing.
I thought "I will be like him when I grow up" but looks like I failed miserably
Speaking of charisma, that gentle hand placed on Grace's shoulder in the intro as you let her say her silly line must've been a nat 20. Wholesome content.
Cool to see the slope climbing times matched up!
I agree that anything beyond a slope, a ladder or climbing on a table probably needs an athletics check, with the DM deciding how far the result gets you.
Trove :)
You guys are awesome and the fun you have making these is palpable, never stop.
Loved this episode! Especially how spot on the difficult terrain was. Still I wouldn't necessarily say that movement speed doesn't apply to climbing - more accurately, walking speed doesn't apply. Humans definitely don't have a "climbing speed" so that's true in that case, but races like tortle and tabaxi and spiders have claws or other different types of appendages that make climbing vertical surfaces much easier
I’m new to DnD in my 40s. Your videos are very helpful and help expand how I can approach the game. I end up DMing but this sort of stuff helps me work with the PCs to understand things.
What a TROVE of edutainment.
Bob and friends are really out here showing why we used to have skill levels to show skill specialization.
Pretty sure 3rd edition was the last edition Gygax had any input in, and quite a bit has changed from then, namely that you don't need to make a roll to climb, which can severely impact your climb speed, either from not advancing at all in a single turn, or actually falling, and that the base speed is half rather than a quarter. Though both do cover half to quarter speed for various reasons.
TROVE
love your channel. Critical in me picking up d&d and becoming a dm during the pandemic.
This really is quite the treasure trove of info. Implementing the weapons homebrew with my group and they seem to enjoy it. Cant wait to see what all comes next with the charisma. I would recommend something but ive definitely got a negative modifier.
For charisma: talking free (alcoholic or non-alcoholic) drinks off of strangers, or discounts at thrift shops.
My anxiety about this suggestion is telling me I have a low CHA lol
For Charisma scores. Open mic night! Gotta get some laughs
TROVE
Btw I love seeing you all explore how grounded in reality the 5e rules are! Keep it up!!!
Excellent videos all! Please keep them coming!
A few other things to consider, maybe?
1. Body shapes/sizes.
Tall and thin, short and stocky, or a typical normal build. Or perhaps, a normal weight, but either short-waisted with long legs, or long-waisted with shorter legs.
All of these kinds of body builds would affect one's ability checks in a variety of ways.
2. Additional knowledge or skills that could improve your ability check results.
i.e. Climbing lore that teaches you other ways to climb. (Such as wrapping cord around both ankles, making one large loop of cord. That loop grabs onto the tree bark, giving a wider area of contact.)
I know that D&D allows you to have some of this additional knowledge, but do they take into account a person's body build?
High-key impressed with Bob's climbing skills.
My appreciation for your fun and interesting content continues to *climb* ever higher!
One thing D&D doesn’t represent is that it’s not just about STR when climbing, but about STR to weight ratio. Bob does much better with the wall and plain rope not because his strength score is higher than StA’s, but because he’s carrying a lighter frame and none of them are wearing gear.
Also Bob is clearly trained in athletics even though he’s a Dex build.
TROVE
As a climber myself this video was really fun!!
Few things are more entertaining than seeing you test out these things man. You're awesome.
For the charisma test, mostly people think it's just about how good you look. Is more like your strength of your mind. Your presence of spirit that affect other around you to like you. Maybe a test of make friend to a random person, a test of how long you can private you for something... Something related to the skill check related to charisma. Just an idea.
I absolutely love these IRL speeds and stuff videos!!!
I used to do rock climbing and this video really fires up the old show off in me who wants to take a crack at climbing all those things.
Poor Grace. She seemed so embarrassed by that wall kicking her butt lol
Not gonna lie, I don't play DnD, have no idea how to play DnD, but I love anytime someone tests game systems in the real world. Great work Bob!
2:18 that "Nice" was perfect
bob really shows how it's not about strength alone but mostly technic the way he climb the wall and the tree. without the prober technic, you will have to use 2 to 3 times the strength to do the job
For climbing just a straight rope, if you're the only one on a rope or you're the one at the bottom you can wrap it around the inside of your shin, around your ankle, and over the top of your foot and step on it. It hurts to do for a long time but you can use it to help hold your weight while you reset your hands and you can climb faster with less effort
For charisma: maybe try to negotiate a discount with an unknown sales person?
Talking your way out of a speeding ticket, lol.
Haha that's a good idea!
Man, I was sweating just from watching you guys do all that climbing.
Glad you made it through! haha
You're channel is a Trove of knowledge
Trove!! I love watching these on my days off! For charisma the idea I have is to go to a swap meet of some sort with items of comparable value and see who can make the most $$$.
For charisma you could join toastmasters and get their feedback about a short persuasive talk. Possibly open mic night to see who gets the most laughs. Seeing who can get the biggest discount on the same item would also be interesting (e.g. everyone tries to get a discount on trail runners at a sporting goods store, or a free beverage from the staff at the local tavern).
TROVE
Also good idea at showing the impact using the rope in the forest slop
I'm excited for the TROVE of knowledge you give us!
I love how much thought you guys put into these videos, seeing all the hard work people put into their hobbies makes me want to do better and go farther with my own stuff. Specifically D&D, but ya know, in general. Also, we have very similar body types Bob, so I'm basing my stats on yours 😅
Something to consider is, quote: "At the DM’s option, climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with few handholds requires a successful Strength (Athletics) check" PHB
This means that, on surfaces other than easy surfaces (vertical with plenty of places to grab or inclined with enough handholds) will require a strength check. As a DM, I will ask for a check and set 2 DCs. One for climbing at half your speed and one for climbing at 1/4 speed. E.g. climbing your last wall, with negative angles and just a few handholds, DC 25 for half speed, DC 15 for 1/4 speed, less than that is a fail.
Thanks for all the work you put in for our nerd brains' enjoyment! A lot of these tests actually look kinda fun :D
Trove. Really enjoying this series, keep up the great work!
Thanks as always for the content, glad you guys are staying safe as you do each challenge!
Oooo, I want the wizard knapsack. Rope climbing is all about the legs and feet.
TROVE!
Thanks for all the vídeos, Bob!
TROVE! I really like this series you guys have been doing. :)
Charisma check challenge: 1) spark up a nice conversation with a stranger in a public place for a decent amount of time. {Your discretion on what that is.} 2) come up with a series of tasks that are simple and interesting {e.g. a scavenger hunt, a small escape room, ect.} And have random people sign up to help, with the understanding that they will fallow one of you guys to accomplish the task, and then give each participant a small survey asking them to rank/score your leadership ability. [Probably on a scale of 1-5/1-10] 3) try to put on a show with sober karaoke, {I don't know if any of you drink much. And karaoke is often done by people who have had a few drinks from what I've heard.} And see if you can get/keep hype going during your song.
This covers a few of the bullet points of charisma, speaking one on one with someone out of nowhere is daunting to some, so that would get a decent base line of comfort with how you are around people. Leadership is a slightly overlooked feat of good Charisma, so leading a small group of five or so people to accomplish something slightly challenging, while not delegating too much, and ignoring everyone while you work on/figure out the problem will test this adequately enough to get a better idea of your score. Then the performance is the standard jump to for charisma. And confidently walking in front of a room full of strangers and not instantly killing the mood is an important part of karaoke. All these should be useful to help determine your charisma score. Because if you do exceptionally well in all of these, you probably have a score 16-18. If you're not good in one or two, but great/decent in the others. you're score is most likely around 10-15. And being not that great at any of these means you probably have a 5-9 charisma.
If you want to really push yourselves, try taking two groups through the tasks. one smaller, maybe 4 or 5, and one larger, like around 10 people. And I recommend not making your own tasks either, familiarity with something makes it easier to lead people through it.
Trove!!! Happy Today, Bob and Grace!!
Bob's been secretly working out in preparation for this video!
For Charisma put the world builder and world destroyer on opposite entrances to the grocery store and sell girl scout cookies to see who sells the most for the win. Or since we are getting to Christmas time dress up in Santa outfits to combine deception checks and raise some money for a charity.
Charisma score should be poll question. I'd say you're a solid 16 on your way to 20. Keep putting out the great content.
Edit:
TROVE
This is like several months too late but when you climb straight up a rope like that, you're supposed to loop it around one foot and trap it between your feet, to use it as a foothold. But also I'm just really impressed Bob has so much upper body strength, was NOT expecting any of that XD
TROVE
Another great demonstration! Thank you for making these videos 😄
I love this series of real life application of game mechanics!! Can’t wait to see how you measure Charisma!
I love these videos! They put the entire game into perspective.
Trove
I love Spider Grace repelling into the opening.
Super interesting! As a relatively experienced rock climber( a bit over 8 years in a variety of styles) I saw this, and I was thinking about timing myself on similar climbing tests to see if that matches it more closely. But I'm probably going to forget to do this when I next go climbing.
Right when you mentioned testing Charisma scores next, I looked over and noticed TH-cam had posted an ad for "Climbing Singles." 😝🙈
I honestly would love to see a system in place that instead of being based around number of actions you have, it is a stamina system. So you would have a set amount of stamina to use in a given round, and any actions you might take have a stamina cost that is spent to do them. So a normal attack might cost you four stamina, while a heavy attack might cost you 8-10 point, spell casting might cost 4-15 stamina based on the spell. Movement could be based on what kind of movement, how fast it is, and what terrain you are moving over. You could use the fact of a base stamina amount that is ajusted based on what armor, gear, and how much you are carrying.
Oh there’s a contest in this video Lol Trove.
Thanks again for your videos!!!
Really been enjoying this series, it’s a real treasure TROVE of amazing and insightful videos!
TROVE! Love the DnD irl videos!
Love this concept and great video!
Just fun info, there is a way to climb a rope with no knots a lot easier by using you feet to create leverage! The army rangers do it, idk about the other branches. Really cool to see, I imagine harder than it looks lol but worth learning if you want to be the speediest adventurer you can be lol
Trove
Always appreciate your informative videos and pleasant demeanor. 👍
You say that a rope does not give a benefit to climbing, but the DC for climbing is considerably lower with a rope than without. Climb checks can be given every round (especially during combat or stressful situations). Being slowed down in climbing isn't usually to do with your speed, but to do with not making progress, or even falling.
Also, when you were climbing the rope up the tree, none of you used your feet to twist the rope around one foot so that can stand on the rope by having the other foot on the rope-twisted foot. This makes rope climbing way more about leg strength than about arm strength. takes a few minutes to learn, but it makes climbing SO MUCH easier!
TROVE
I'm really enjoying this channel.
Technique plays a huge rule in all of these also. If you grabbed the rope between your feet you'd have a way easier time going up, if you kick off the wall right you basically launch yourself up easily and if you only use two points of contact on a tree you can get up faster but it's more dangerous
For Trove -> Always make a investigation check at tree holes
what's next? Rations or Starting Gear check?
TROVE
Thanks for the wonderful video Bob. Appreciate your work.
I love how thief rogue gets to disregard most of this :P
Thief Rogue is just Jackie Chan.
RAW the Thief shouldn't disregard any of this just because their climbing speed is 30 instead of 15 ft.
However, in my home game (and many others I suspect), our Thief runs straight up trees and walls all the time, no questions asked. If another character attempts that, the DM asks for an Athletics check (like they ought to do for the Thief). Thiefs have little else going for them, so it's fine - if only I was able to unsee this video 🙈
Trove - also another excellent video, great to see these concepts played out. Thanks Bob!
Performance might be the closest to a standardized test you could do for charisma, doing complex dance, intricate music, party tricks, etc.
Also performance has the benefit of not necessarily requiring you to subject unknowing people to recorded and documented testing of how they react to a stranger trying to persuade them, scare them or lie to them.
I am truely suprised how accurate the values from the books are - and, as always, thank you for sacrificing yourself by testing them...
Regarding your tests of CHA: it is the one to which I think it is the most complicated to define a value for...
Maybe a series of tests: Performance should be easy, just sing, dance or something like that - maybe take a guitar or another instrument, go to a street corner and make music or something like that (be warned, depending on the city you need a permit for something like that, and in times of corona...).
For Deception and Persuasion - the classic "Hütchenspiel" (sry, I don't know the English term for it, it's a classic scam, 3 objects and a small ball placed under one of them and you have to guess under which the ball is ... - deception to make people believe it is under on specific object, persuasion to make them change the object of their choice).
Leadership is almost impossible to define, same is true for beauty, and any kind of "inspiring aura" of a person depends on those you want to influence...
On the other hand, intimidation should not be tested on CHA at all - let's be honest, if there is some guy robbing me while pointing a shotgun at me (or, more dnd, a crossbow) I absolutely don't care if that guy is looking like a mix of goblin and troll or looking like a model, he will get what he wants because he is armed - and even if he is just a gigantic slab of muscles without the slightest bit of charism, if he is cracking his knuckles on fists the size of my head while telling me "give gold or me be killing you" , there is a high probability I will do what he wants because I am intimidated (read: scared sh*tless)
TROVE
i love the catchphrases on the hats!
TROVE
Here are some ideas for Charisma score
(Not sure if they are good ideas but my best try)
Start a conversation with a stranger and convince them to check out your channel casually.
However you'll need to succeed on an insight check to actually know if it works so the next one is better -
Do a street performance(if you can) and see how many people you attract.