Might I ask you for some recommendations for a coffee grinder to mate with this Pro 400. Something that won't break the bank while also not falling short of the performance needed to create excellent coffee for the extractions. Many Thanks!
I just purchased the Profitec 400 with flow control and olive wood detail. I’m so excited for the machine to arrive. For me, the biggest thing was something with a small profile and I was deciding between this one and the 500. In the end this one fit with my budget and kitchen space. Hopefully I can upgrade to the 700 one day. At first I wanted the 500 but if I want a PDI I prefer the 700 when I can afford to do so. With 2 years experience as a barista the 400 is perfect to perfect my craft.
Can’t wait to pick mine up on Thursday from my local dealer! This review just assured me that I made the right choice, since there aren’t many reviews on the market yet Thanks!
I have low cabinets but will still consider getting this because of the larger reservoir, single switch temp adjustment and slimmer profile of the machine itself. I have limited space and can't beat the price. Right now i own a breville duo temp pro that I've had for a few years and always wanted to upgrade
The Profitec Pro 400 does have PID temperature control. However, since this machine being heat exchanger, it controls the temperature of the water inside the boiler used for steaming, not the brew water passing through it. Since the final brew temperature after the HX process depends also on external factors like the grouphead temperature, the "conversion" can only be approximately guaranteed within certain operational ranges as can be seen in the coarser settings here. As a side note, this is an interesting problem that many other "PID HX" machines face and some attempt to solve (e.g. Lelit MaraX).
You will not know what the value of the brew temperature is actually, but generally trust that it will keep stable to within one or two degrees of a specific value for each setting, unless e.g. your ambient room temperature suddenly changes significantly.
Now I canceled my order for Rocket Appartamento TCA, after research and watching your comparison. I ordered Profitec Pro 400. Thank you for your honest reviews.
QQ on a technical / functional front. I just received an ECM Mechanika VI variant of this HX machine and after the initial setup, the unit WILL NOT stop hissing / sputtering / discharging from the OPV overflow port behind the group head. There is no pause with it, it's going through all the water in the tank, steaming up the entire front of the unit, and making constant noise. Now, this can't be normal right?
So about that gauge train, with Profitec and ECM, you get exactly what you pay for, my ECM Classika is a brick and my buddy in the UK went with the Profitec 600 and is absolutely in love with it. The 400 deserves to become a classic with those features at that price point. Upgrade the steam tip to a 4 or 5 hole for quicker dryer foam.
im considering the classika. how its the steam on it? i see lots of reviews saying its only good for just espresso. coming from a gaggia classic pro i am only looking for something to be fairly better than that with steam though.
@@AC-wl7ve The steam is actually really good, you just have to purge some water a few times before it get's up to pressure. I do however recommend getting the 4 or 5 hole stream tip as the stock 2 hole gets clogged up really quickly. I can easily steam enough milk for my Cortado and my wife's extremely large latte. I also came from the Classika so waiting for the boiler to get up to temp is burnt in to my workflow, trust me, you'll love it.
Biggest difference will be build quality. Profitec wins on finishes and build, the MaraX you get slightly more features but a dip in finishing. Both great options :)
Great review. Is the vibration pump quiet enough, or should I go the extra spend for the rotary? I see they’ve now released the JUMP - any thoughts on that yet?
Nothing wrong with a vibration pump in my opinion :) Currently have the ECM Mechanika Max on my bar and it's barely quieter. I definitely would like to check out the Jump at some point soon
I am trying to make a decision either Pro 400 or bezzera bz13. I understand that pro 400 has good built-up quality. Bezzera bz13 had a PID and quick heat up time. Please suggest which machine is a better choice? Also, how long is heating up time for pro 400?
Hello, first of all, I would like to thank you for providing the most descriptive, clear and understandable information among the videos I watched. I use delonghi ec680 at my home. I will have some questions. 1) If I buy Gagia Classic Evo 2023 after EC680, will I get a much better result in terms of espresso? 2) Does profitec pro go give a professional result that is much superior to gaggia in terms of espresso quality? Or is there no need to pay more for pro go because they will give the same results? 3) Will my espresso quality be much higher if I buy the higher priced machines profitec pro400 and ECM Classika II PID instead of profitec pro go? Or is there no need to bear such a cost as a home user? And finally, if we were to bear this cost, which would be your choice between pro400 and ECM Classika II PID?
Yes, going up to a boiler-driven machine with a full size 58mm portafilter will be a nice step up from your old 51mm Delonghi. Keep in mind that grinder quality plays an equal or larger role in overall shot quality than the machine itself, but all other variables the same, and any of the machines you mentioned will be a great upgrade. The Profitec GOs main advantage over the Gaggia is build quality and having a PID for better temperature control. If you aren't concerned about premium finishes and learn to manage the temperature on the Gaggia, the shots will be the same. If you want a more premium machine and perfect temperature without thinking about it, go with the Profitec. Upgrading to any of the other machines you mentioned will not see improvements to espresso quality, mainly they get better in terms of steaming power and capacity. If your after just espresso, stick with the Gaggia or Profitec GO, and if you want to invest more money into the setup do so into a grinder upgrade
The Drip Tray seems to be such an obvious oversight, this would really annoy me. Strangely Rancilio went the same road with the Silvia Pro X. This and the water tank access is something that should have been done in another way, since both (filling the water tank and drip tray cleaning) is something an enthuasist will likely have to do every 1-2 days. That beeing said, this seems to be an amazing package overall. Thanks for the review.
I have a 400 now and the drip try is kind of small it could be about an inch deeper. My scale barely fits. I'd also like the try to be just slightly wider. I find the grid metal, between the holes, to be kind of wide so when you flush, water can easily run along the grid and over the edge.
Great review. How does this compare to lelit Mara x? To my mind, the three-temp switch here should function similar to the brew-mode of Mara-x, even if p400 doesn’t have any sensors in the brew head. Besides, the switch in p40p is much more usable. I prefer the overall aesthetic of p400. But the cup clearance of Mara-x is useful. Price is similar for both in my part of the world. And I am bouncing between the two like a pop Corning bean in a grinder.
Lelit always appears to offer a couple more features than the competition at each price point, at the sacrifice of some build quality. Not to say Lelit are poorly built, but Profitec are notably very well put together. If it were my money, I’d go with the Pro400
Just ordered my Pro 400 yesterday!!! They expect their shipment to arrive on May 3rd. So after bench testing will probably be 2nd week of May. So excited!!
Great video! Question..would you recommend this over the ECM Classika for someone who primarily drinks espresso (I do drink the occasional milk-based drink, but it’s mainly espresso on a daily basis)
This machine makes Pro 300 (which I have) in a bit of an awkward position. 300 is dual boiler and smaller. I do wonder if Profitec plans to discontinue it.
@@Val_Smith Agree but unfortunately for me the brew boiler on the Pro 300 is brass & not stainless steel like the steam boiler and they also should have included a dual gauge (brew & steam) like the Pro 400 in lieu of just a steam pressure gauge. Cheers.
@@LifestyleLab_ I’ve been using it a bit over a week. Really nice and solid build. Only thing I wished is that I could see what the expected brew temperature is. I’m also concerned how many say the e61 requires taking apart every so often to clean and lube. As I said before, the toss up was between this and something like the Silvia Pro X.
I am deciding between Profitec pro 400 and 600. I just want a machine that can do the consistent high-quality shots, and a powerful steamer as 90% of the time I will be making flat white. PID control seems to be a variable that I haven't touched. I don't know how much it would impact the espresso or make any difference. One of my coffee expert friend recommend the 600, who commented: this is a better machine, just A$ 1000 more than the Profitec Pro 400. you get dual boiler and PID control, this is something you are going to play with later and it will take you a longer time before upgrading. Keen to know what would be your pick ?
If you're just making flat whites, the Pro 400 will serve you very very well. There is no need to spend another $1000 for dedicated brew and steam boilers unless you'll be serving 10+ people regularly, or you demand temperature adjustment down to the degree (which you don't for a flat white, or unless you're a VERY particular espresso drinker)
I think the features are great and it is a great-looking machine. I wish it had the short throw knobs; the round spinny knobs are old school, and not a fan. Use an appliance slider stand, and it works great; easy to refill the water. I would not buy this machine due to the missing PID, yes, you can time the flush, but it's not practical. The temp rocker switch has weird temp settings, and it seems to jump over the sweet spot around 199-200F. I feel it's so close to perfect but I can't get past the missing PID.
Keep in mind that even PID heat exchangers will overheat the brew water if left idle. But yes, if you need more than 3 settings then a PID is a must :)
A heat exchanger has one boiler for steam. To hear the brew water, it passes a closed tube through that steam. If the water is left sitting still for long periods of time, eventually it will heat up to the temperature of the surrounding steam boiler. This is unavoidable in that heating configuration. It’s not a difficult thing to overcome at all, just make sure you’re using your machine while it’s turned on, or if you leave it at full temp sitting idle, that you flush the group before brewing :)
So coming from a sage/Breville B Express I have the option ( in this price point, and nearby shops ) of the Quick Mill Rubino - Profitec Pro 400 - Rocket Appartamento - VIBIEMME DOMOBAR JUNIOR HX ore the VIBIEMME DOMOBAR JUNIOR 2B. The grinder will most certanly be the Eureka Mignon Single Dose 65, but man , getting the grips of the machine that will give the best bang for bucks is not easy .
@@LifestyleLab_ Seems to have the full package for the next step in espresso over the sage/breville. I was really leaning on the Rubino( the vers. With matt black casing and with wood details) but seems the Profitec has the little extra
As much as l love and appreciate the review, it’s a shame you only benchmark the 400 Pro against the Rocket Appartmento, which is very dated especially since the Lelit Mara X came out 2 years ago. Can you have a chat with Whole Latte Love and see if you can get a head-to-head comparison between the Pro 400 and Mara X?
I haven’t had any first hand experience with the Aria, but to answer your question, no a rotary pump will not have a noticeable difference in taste. It is far quieter, and will give a slightly more constant pressure compared to the slight pulsing you get from a vibe pump, but I don’t think you’d be able to discern a difference in taste of the final drink
Hey :) what would be your choice between the Profitec Pro 400, Rocket Appartamento and the Quickmill Rubino 0981? Thanks for your help and the great Video!
Allthough i knew my appartamento was lacking behind a bit in some aspects compared to other e61 machines in the same price range, i have to say the design just was more important to me. Adjusted the brew pressure a bit down and maybe will get a temperature upgrade, apart from that, i am completely happy
I've been contemplating upgrading from my GCP for quite some time now as i've outgrown it and would like some more consistency.. was always considering a Rocket apartemento, but this video has swayed me. Between the additional features, I actually think it looks better (particularly the cup rack), actually being cheaper, and currently flow control being added for free from whole latte love, I took the plunge and just ordered one. I can't wait for it to arrive!
What would you recommend... I would normally use it the days I'm home (3-4 days a week) when I'm home I surely get 1-2 extractions + steaming milk. So the question is, if the profitec works well if it will be turn off after serving one ie capuccino and then hours later turned on again and another one? I'm talking about having to get warm every time I need to use it and then also cooling more than once in a day. I dunno why I have that in mind that having to warm up and cooling down could be a thing to keep in mind
Depending on how long in between drink, it may just be worth it to leave it turned on. However, regardless, the second heat up will be quicker once it's already warmed once that day. Perfectly normal use case for this machine to have 2 brewing sessions per day
@@LifestyleLab_ thank you! I'm wondering to get this machine I was about to get the gaggia Evo but I feel now more like buying this one. What are your thoughts comparing this one with the Rancilio Silvia pro? That one has two boiler, I watched a James Hoffman's comparison video they compare it with the 500 not the 400 and he mentioned the Silvia is really accurate with the pressure and heat out of the box while the 500 was a bit over the 9bars and the temperature.
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks again for sharing I really appreciate a recommendation from someone that knows a lot like you🙌🏼❤️ and compared with the profitec pro 400 and the rancilio Silvia pro?
@FabEnPeOr2 the Rancilio Silvia Pro is a far more capable machine capacity-wise as it is a dual boiler, but for home use making the number of drink you are, there isn't really a point in spending the extra $$
It was already mentioned in the comments, but those knobs/eyes look like something out of the Robots movie. Not sure why black wasn’t a colour option. As you eluded to, I’m sure we can expect some third party accessories such as wooden accents. Always a pleasure watching your reviews. 👌 you
I wondered this too. I actually like most of the disclets, but seems odd that a plain black wasn't offered. I'm sure we'll start seeing many DIY disclets soon enough. I'd probably just spray paint the green ones to be black myself
Am I crazy to lean towards Bezzera BZ10 over this Pro 400? The aesthetics, simplicity and heat up time of the Bezzera have me leaning that way but I keep coming back to this review and general consensus that the Profitec Pro 400 is the best-in-class HX.
The BZ10 is also super compelling because of the electronically heated group head. However, I would still personally opt for the Pro 400 because of the ability to adjust temperature with the 3 position switch, and the low pressure pre-infusion. The BZ10 loses those features which I place more value on that an actively heated group.
Thanks, I think you just solidified it for me. At same price point (including flow control), the German born features win out. Great videos by the way!
would the automatic preinfusion still be available with an e61 flow control installed? I know WLL sells the pro400 with and without flow control, so curious if you would have to pick between an automatic preinfusion and a manual flow control
I believe it would still work, you’d just leave the flow control wide open for the beginning of the shot while the pre-infusion is running, and then you could taper off towards the end of the shot as desired. A question I’d definitely pass on to WLL though
No, there’s not going to be anything that can accomplish that from inside the tank. You’ll want to use bottle water ppm 70-100 range, or filter your water ahead of time before putting it in the machine with something like a Brita. OR the best option is to use a mix like third wave water’s espresso profile
There are a lot more features than the simple GCP. You have basic temperate control and can precisely set the pressure and steaming is much more powerful. Besides it's a regular E61 type machine and just a bit better than other entry level E61 systems. It's been a year since that video was posted and I got my 400 and there are other options out there you might look into like the Profitec Go or 300. @@azza2575
I do recommend these over the Diletta, absolutely if you can spend the extra money do it. Only downside of flow control is that you do need to be at the machine and monitoring it / controlling it throughout the shot (also the advantage of it…)
I was set on the Marax, but the pro 400 really makes a compelling argument. The features, aesthetics mixed with the maraX's questions Quality Control really have me choosing the pro 400
Same as any other E61, around 4-5 minutes to get boiler pressure, another 10-15 minutes for the group and portafilter to get up to temperature passively.
Which HX has a full PID for cheaper? Short answer regardless in this case would be build quality. Even compared to Lelit the Profitec units are on a different level
@@LifestyleLab_ yup, just re-checked prices and you are right... they are on a very fair price. Do you personally think a 3-position switch is enough for most espresso bean variants? Are these temperature settings accurate enough for dark-roast, mid-roast and light-roast?
I believe so, yes. A low, medium and high is enough flexibility for the vast majority of cases. When it comes to espresso, having degree perfect temperature adjustment is not the limiting factor for dialing in. Perfect puck prep, portafilter temperature, tamping pressure, all of these things impart more variability than slight temp shifts.
I have a 400 and it is 5 7/8" (150mm) from tray to group. About 3 1/2" (90mm) to the very bottom tip of the spouted portafilter. I don't have a bottomless yet for this machine but it would probably be about 5 1/2" (133mm) in that case.
My dealer discontinued selling the Mara X saying there were to many repairs (He had four broken ones in his back room). He recommends the Profitec now.
I keep coming back to this video as I am tempted by the Pro 400 , however , now there is the ECM Mechanika VI Slim. Pretty much a similar spec apart from a bigger steam boiler. Is the ECM quality / finish worth spending an extra £250 / £300?
So I have seen both of them internally and they’re almost identical with the exception of the boiler size. So much so that I’ve seen videos of the pro400 with a Christmas tree that said ecm and looked to be identical to what’s on the mechanica slim vi
Apologies, I thought this comment was on a different video. The Silvia Pro X is a fair competitor to the Pro 400. It doesn’t have the E61 classic design and function, but it gains a true PID and it is a Dual Boiler. So to very oversimplify, the Pro400 is better build more classic designed, the Pro X has more features in a still solid chassis
Great video as always! I'm very close to choosing this machine. Now I'm wondering if it's worth the $100 upgrade for flow-control? Is it possible to have the flow-control and not necessarily use it? Is there a certain neutral position that it can be used at? I'd play with it making espresso, but not when trying to froth milk, if that's possible.
Flow control only impacts the espresso brewing. Steam is a different loop :) Yes, it is possible to just leave it in a neutral position if you don’t want to actively manipulate it
@@LifestyleLab_ Thanks that helps. I do get that the steam is a different loop. I meant to say "brewing espresso while simultaneously frothing milk." I guess you would just leave the flow control all the way open which I learned from another of your videos.
Not necessarily ALL the way open, but yes when steaming if you don’t want to be fiddling you can find the position that would be the same as not having the knob installed at all (same aperture size)
I’m researching this now and you came out with this yesterday. So grateful. Rocket has the sexier look in my opinion but the features just aren’t as good to me. Thank you.
Completely Agree, as someone who really got into home espresso around 2020, the rocket apartamento has always been my dream machine, because its gotta be the best looking e61 out there. That being said, now that I am more knowledgeable, I would really be making a lot of compromises if I were to buy something like the apartamento. The pro400 is the dead opposite. If you're okay with an HX, then the pro 400 has all the features you could really ever hope for especially at the price point.
@@givemekape2418 the apartemento has been my dream machine for quite a while too.. but I ended up purchasing a pro400. It looks quite similar and honestly I think it may look a little better, particularly the cup rail. But it’s a bit cheaper, and still has more features I wanted. was an obvious choice.
Very different systems. E61 machines are very classic, rely on a large chunk of metal for temp stability. Takes a big lead on enjoyment to operate each day. The Decent is a piece of tech really. Can't be beat in terms of repeatability and most importantly flow management for lighter roasts.
@@LifestyleLab_ So, let's say I don't care about operations, I just want the best tasting coffee ever, which one is more suitable? The reason why I ask is because I already have a Profitec Pro 700, which is a very good machine. I'm contemplating if the DE1 is actually an upgrade.
@@LifestyleLab_ Ah, sir, please try a Londinium R24 Lever then discuss the taste comparison with your Decent DE1. Remember that you might be using the Londinium Profile on the Decent, but the ease of use of the R24 might truly surprise you, it did so for me. If Whole Latte Love supplies a Profitec Pro 800, a dipper type spring lever machine, to you, then hopefully you can do an additional comparison with an R24, and you might experience the additional pleasant surprises of the very easy to use Londinium preinfusion pressure/temperature profiling while on your way to the good tastes inherent in the lever world, also while using various roast level beans. Cheers
But those are in different product classes? This is an E61 machine. If you’re shopping for a saturated group, yes those are good alternatives to note. Silvia Pro X is far more expensive, Lelit is a great option but build quality is not up to Profitec levels, BDB is a great machine but has longevity issues
@@LifestyleLab_ Yeah, they don’t look as good as this Profitec but they should give more in the cup. Just my opinion, everybody is free to do whatever with they money.
Seems like Profitec/ECM switched to a Dti D530034100 electronic box for the Pro 400, instead of the prior widely used Cigar Dosatura box. This box enables a second pump-mode for auto preinfusion feature.
I agree to this review. It appears to be an amazing espresso machine, especially for its price point. @LSL. Did you have a look of the Profitec Pro 800 Lever Espresso Machine? This also appears to be a great espresso machine, and it's said that lever machines can provide a sweeter profile than what the E61 group heads can provide.
E61 machines have one huge drawback: the long heat-up time (20-30 minutes or so). The Bezerra quickly heats up its brew head with electric elements, more suited for the average consumer. Agree?
I think that you will find out who the real category killer is when you will review the Bezzera BZ-10......2 amazingly reliable years, no fuss, just good coffee!
@@LifestyleLab_ I agree but I’ve had my machine for 4 years with no problems. I love the steaming power and pre infusion is not that important to me. If I was shopping for a new machine the Profitec might be the better choice.
@@LifestyleLab_ I have reasoning for this, I promise. Thermosiphon heat exchangers without a separate group thermometer have to be tuned via flow restriction - but tuning is kind of chasing your tail. You either get decent stability or quick temperature recovery, not both. The MaraX sidesteps that issue by just reading the thermosiphon return temperature and adjusting the steam boiler as necessary. It recovers quickly _and_ is stable enough to never need flushing.
@@laurenyoungs Not necessarily. Any espresso machine will require you to learn the same technique! As long as you pair it with a good espresso grinder you'll be good to go :)
Maybe if you ask nicely :) Heat exchangers are all generally around 3-4 minutes for the boiler to get to temperature and then another 10-12 for the group head and portafilter to be fully hot and ready to brew unless you run several blank shots
Surprisingly they did not use a proper 1-11-111 silk screened switch. Just a stock two on one off silk screened switch. That's my nit picking from an electrician stand point who loves coffee equipment ☕
It might be more dependable, solid, all round better made, have more features etc but the Appartamento looks way better to me, especially in the black. And for that and only that Italy 1- Germany 0
In what world is that a red flag? Do you expect me to purchase a new $2k+ espresso machine every week to produce content for my channel? That wouldn’t be too sustainable now would it…
@Lifestyle Lab can you point to anything specific about Lelit’s built quality that concerns you? I notice you have mentioned this as a deciding factor a couple of times, and it’d be helpful to have a little context. Thanks!
I'm very concerned with how much of Lelit's product lineup with remain since Breville bought it. I think the Mara X and Bianca are safe, but grace, elizabeth and anna aren't safe. I think the Mara X needs to catch up to the 400 but am not sure how much Breville will invest in it.
espresso noob here, what does heat up time mean? i think that's amount of time until machine can pull a shot? if so, how does this compare to the breville dual boiler? are there options like the dual boiler (program a time for machine to be ready / speedy warm up time) without looking so "appliance-y"?
Yes, that is what heat up time means These machine will be around 45 seconds for the water to heat up, whereas the dual boiler will take 6-7 minutes because it has full sized boilers
Anywhere you hear this is likely referring to how long it takes for the entire portafilter to warm up naturally by sitting in the group head. This is important for consistent brewing. However, the process can be sped up by running some hot water (referred to as blank shots) through the portafilter if needed
Profitec Pro 400: geni.us/Tzj5U
Rocket Appartamento: geni.us/q5Wz
Diletta Bello: geni.us/uACvkx
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Might I ask you for some recommendations for a coffee grinder to mate with this Pro 400. Something that won't break the bank while also not falling short of the performance needed to create excellent coffee for the extractions. Many Thanks!
Can come chat here!
www.curated.com/e/matt.s.1
I am a happy owner of Profitec 500 Pro, I evaluated for months and saw that Profitec has the best combination of quality, beauty and reliability.
Would you say the 500 is good for someone who already has experience in knowing how to grind and dose the beans given the PID for espresso only?
I just purchased the Profitec 400 with flow control and olive wood detail. I’m so excited for the machine to arrive. For me, the biggest thing was something with a small profile and I was deciding between this one and the 500. In the end this one fit with my budget and kitchen space.
Hopefully I can upgrade to the 700 one day. At first I wanted the 500 but if I want a PDI I prefer the 700 when I can afford to do so.
With 2 years experience as a barista the 400 is perfect to perfect my craft.
I absolutely love all your videos! By far the most comprehensive channel about coffee appliances. Keep up the good work!👍👍👍
Can’t wait to pick mine up on Thursday from my local dealer! This review just assured me that I made the right choice, since there aren’t many reviews on the market yet
Thanks!
Enjoy, you’re going to love it
I have low cabinets but will still consider getting this because of the larger reservoir, single switch temp adjustment and slimmer profile of the machine itself. I have limited space and can't beat the price.
Right now i own a breville duo temp pro that I've had for a few years and always wanted to upgrade
The Profitec Pro 400 does have PID temperature control. However, since this machine being heat exchanger, it controls the temperature of the water inside the boiler used for steaming, not the brew water passing through it. Since the final brew temperature after the HX process depends also on external factors like the grouphead temperature, the "conversion" can only be approximately guaranteed within certain operational ranges as can be seen in the coarser settings here. As a side note, this is an interesting problem that many other "PID HX" machines face and some attempt to solve (e.g. Lelit MaraX).
oh, meaning we will never know what is the brew temp ?
You will not know what the value of the brew temperature is actually, but generally trust that it will keep stable to within one or two degrees of a specific value for each setting, unless e.g. your ambient room temperature suddenly changes significantly.
Now I canceled my order for Rocket Appartamento TCA, after research and watching your comparison.
I ordered Profitec Pro 400.
Thank you for your honest reviews.
I still got my TCA even after watching this video. I wanted a big sized machine. And taking off full tray to fill water is a big no no for me
QQ on a technical / functional front. I just received an ECM Mechanika VI variant of this HX machine and after the initial setup, the unit WILL NOT stop hissing / sputtering / discharging from the OPV overflow port behind the group head. There is no pause with it, it's going through all the water in the tank, steaming up the entire front of the unit, and making constant noise. Now, this can't be normal right?
So about that gauge train, with Profitec and ECM, you get exactly what you pay for, my ECM Classika is a brick and my buddy in the UK went with the Profitec 600 and is absolutely in love with it. The 400 deserves to become a classic with those features at that price point. Upgrade the steam tip to a 4 or 5 hole for quicker dryer foam.
what do you mean "a brick"?
@@juggernaut316 It's rock solid.
im considering the classika. how its the steam on it? i see lots of reviews saying its only good for just espresso. coming from a gaggia classic pro i am only looking for something to be fairly better than that with steam though.
@@AC-wl7ve The steam is actually really good, you just have to purge some water a few times before it get's up to pressure. I do however recommend getting the 4 or 5 hole stream tip as the stock 2 hole gets clogged up really quickly. I can easily steam enough milk for my Cortado and my wife's extremely large latte. I also came from the Classika so waiting for the boiler to get up to temp is burnt in to my workflow, trust me, you'll love it.
@@Nevermindthrbrewmethod i ended up ordering it last week. cant wait!
Thanks for sharing.
Compared to the ECM Classika II PID, witch one would you recommande, and why ?
Great video! I'm between this and the MaraX v2. The build quality of this looks great. Does either one outperform the other? (Steaming, heat-up, etc?)
Biggest difference will be build quality. Profitec wins on finishes and build, the MaraX you get slightly more features but a dip in finishing. Both great options :)
Hi-Thanks for another informative video. For an additional 200USD would you go for the 500 with PID? Thank again.
Great review. Is the vibration pump quiet enough, or should I go the extra spend for the rotary? I see they’ve now released the JUMP - any thoughts on that yet?
Nothing wrong with a vibration pump in my opinion :) Currently have the ECM Mechanika Max on my bar and it's barely quieter.
I definitely would like to check out the Jump at some point soon
I am trying to make a decision either Pro 400 or bezzera bz13. I understand that pro 400 has good built-up quality. Bezzera bz13 had a PID and quick heat up time. Please suggest which machine is a better choice? Also, how long is heating up time for pro 400?
Hello, first of all, I would like to thank you for providing the most descriptive, clear and understandable information among the videos I watched. I use delonghi ec680 at my home. I will have some questions.
1) If I buy Gagia Classic Evo 2023 after EC680, will I get a much better result in terms of espresso?
2) Does profitec pro go give a professional result that is much superior to gaggia in terms of espresso quality? Or is there no need to pay more for pro go because they will give the same results?
3) Will my espresso quality be much higher if I buy the higher priced machines profitec pro400 and ECM Classika II PID instead of profitec pro go? Or is there no need to bear such a cost as a home user? And finally, if we were to bear this cost, which would be your choice between pro400 and ECM Classika II PID?
Yes, going up to a boiler-driven machine with a full size 58mm portafilter will be a nice step up from your old 51mm Delonghi. Keep in mind that grinder quality plays an equal or larger role in overall shot quality than the machine itself, but all other variables the same, and any of the machines you mentioned will be a great upgrade.
The Profitec GOs main advantage over the Gaggia is build quality and having a PID for better temperature control. If you aren't concerned about premium finishes and learn to manage the temperature on the Gaggia, the shots will be the same. If you want a more premium machine and perfect temperature without thinking about it, go with the Profitec. Upgrading to any of the other machines you mentioned will not see improvements to espresso quality, mainly they get better in terms of steaming power and capacity. If your after just espresso, stick with the Gaggia or Profitec GO, and if you want to invest more money into the setup do so into a grinder upgrade
The Drip Tray seems to be such an obvious oversight, this would really annoy me. Strangely Rancilio went the same road with the Silvia Pro X. This and the water tank access is something that should have been done in another way, since both (filling the water tank and drip tray cleaning) is something an enthuasist will likely have to do every 1-2 days.
That beeing said, this seems to be an amazing package overall. Thanks for the review.
I have a 400 now and the drip try is kind of small it could be about an inch deeper. My scale barely fits. I'd also like the try to be just slightly wider. I find the grid metal, between the holes, to be kind of wide so when you flush, water can easily run along the grid and over the edge.
Great review. How does this compare to lelit Mara x? To my mind, the three-temp switch here should function similar to the brew-mode of Mara-x, even if p400 doesn’t have any sensors in the brew head. Besides, the switch in p40p is much more usable. I prefer the overall aesthetic of p400. But the cup clearance of Mara-x is useful. Price is similar for both in my part of the world. And I am bouncing between the two like a pop Corning bean in a grinder.
Lelit always appears to offer a couple more features than the competition at each price point, at the sacrifice of some build quality. Not to say Lelit are poorly built, but Profitec are notably very well put together. If it were my money, I’d go with the Pro400
Just ordered my Pro 400 yesterday!!! They expect their shipment to arrive on May 3rd. So after bench testing will probably be 2nd week of May. So excited!!
You’re going to loooove it!
When you say pause when describing pre-infusion, do you mean that the pump shuts off? Meaning, pump on at 4 bar for 5 seconds, pump off, pump back on?
Can you please review the Profitec GO soon? The Pro 400 is a little out of my price range at the moment 😅
I have one coming as soon as they’re back in stock!
Great video! Question..would you recommend this over the ECM Classika for someone who primarily drinks espresso (I do drink the occasional milk-based drink, but it’s mainly espresso on a daily basis)
Only advantage the Classika will have is the PID controller
Thank you!
This machine makes Pro 300 (which I have) in a bit of an awkward position. 300 is dual boiler and smaller. I do wonder if Profitec plans to discontinue it.
Dual boiler with saturated group all day
@@Val_Smith Agree but unfortunately for me the brew boiler on the Pro 300 is brass & not stainless steel like the steam boiler and they also should have included a dual gauge (brew & steam) like the Pro 400 in lieu of just a steam pressure gauge. Cheers.
Just ordered this machine with flow control. Upgrading from a Gaggia Classic Pro. Can’t wait.
You’re going to LOVE it
@@LifestyleLab_ I was debating weeks between this and the Silvia Pro X. I think I was nervous about going to an E61 machine.
@@LifestyleLab_ I’ve been using it a bit over a week. Really nice and solid build. Only thing I wished is that I could see what the expected brew temperature is. I’m also concerned how many say the e61 requires taking apart every so often to clean and lube.
As I said before, the toss up was between this and something like the Silvia Pro X.
I am deciding between Profitec pro 400 and 600. I just want a machine that can do the consistent high-quality shots, and a powerful steamer as 90% of the time I will be making flat white. PID control seems to be a variable that I haven't touched. I don't know how much it would impact the espresso or make any difference.
One of my coffee expert friend recommend the 600, who commented: this is a better machine, just A$ 1000 more than the Profitec Pro 400. you get dual boiler and PID control, this is something you are going to play with later and it will take you a longer time before upgrading. Keen to know what would be your pick ?
If you're just making flat whites, the Pro 400 will serve you very very well. There is no need to spend another $1000 for dedicated brew and steam boilers unless you'll be serving 10+ people regularly, or you demand temperature adjustment down to the degree (which you don't for a flat white, or unless you're a VERY particular espresso drinker)
@@LifestyleLab_Thank you very much❤
I think the features are great and it is a great-looking machine. I wish it had the short throw knobs; the round spinny knobs are old school, and not a fan. Use an appliance slider stand, and it works great; easy to refill the water. I would not buy this machine due to the missing PID, yes, you can time the flush, but it's not practical. The temp rocker switch has weird temp settings, and it seems to jump over the sweet spot around 199-200F. I feel it's so close to perfect but I can't get past the missing PID.
Keep in mind that even PID heat exchangers will overheat the brew water if left idle. But yes, if you need more than 3 settings then a PID is a must :)
@@LifestyleLab_ Could you elaborate the idling overheat issue pls... I'm considering b/w 400 and 500. Thanks.
A heat exchanger has one boiler for steam. To hear the brew water, it passes a closed tube through that steam. If the water is left sitting still for long periods of time, eventually it will heat up to the temperature of the surrounding steam boiler. This is unavoidable in that heating configuration.
It’s not a difficult thing to overcome at all, just make sure you’re using your machine while it’s turned on, or if you leave it at full temp sitting idle, that you flush the group before brewing :)
So coming from a sage/Breville B Express I have the option ( in this price point, and nearby shops ) of the Quick Mill Rubino - Profitec Pro 400 - Rocket Appartamento - VIBIEMME DOMOBAR JUNIOR HX ore the VIBIEMME DOMOBAR JUNIOR 2B. The grinder will most certanly be the Eureka Mignon Single Dose 65, but man , getting the grips of the machine that will give the best bang for bucks is not easy .
I’d recommend the Profitec out of those listed 👍
@@LifestyleLab_ Seems to have the full package for the next step in espresso over the sage/breville. I was really leaning on the Rubino( the vers. With matt black casing and with wood details) but seems the Profitec has the little extra
As much as l love and appreciate the review, it’s a shame you only benchmark the 400 Pro against the Rocket Appartmento, which is very dated especially since the Lelit Mara X came out 2 years ago.
Can you have a chat with Whole Latte Love and see if you can get a head-to-head comparison between the Pro 400 and Mara X?
Unfortunately I don’t believe that WLL stocks Lelit, but I would like to get some of those machine to film as well
This or the Bezzera Aria? Does the rotary pump make a difference in terms of taste?
I haven’t had any first hand experience with the Aria, but to answer your question, no a rotary pump will not have a noticeable difference in taste. It is far quieter, and will give a slightly more constant pressure compared to the slight pulsing you get from a vibe pump, but I don’t think you’d be able to discern a difference in taste of the final drink
@@LifestyleLab_ how loud is the pump on this machine? Compared to something like a Barista Express?
Quieter than the Barista Express, about average for a vibration pump E61
Hey :)
what would be your choice between the Profitec Pro 400, Rocket Appartamento and the Quickmill Rubino 0981?
Thanks for your help and the great Video!
The Pro 400!
Better build quality than the Quickmill, much more features than the Rocket. It's a fantastic sweet spot!
i saw you've the pressure set to 10 bars, was that for testing only, or that's how you use the machine?
That's how I use it :)
That reading is pump pressure, so gets closer to 9 at the puck
What are you thoughts on the BZ13 DE? It looks like it lacks flow control and low pressure infusion in comparison to the 400? Thank you!
Allthough i knew my appartamento was lacking behind a bit in some aspects compared to other e61 machines in the same price range, i have to say the design just was more important to me.
Adjusted the brew pressure a bit down and maybe will get a temperature upgrade, apart from that, i am completely happy
Absolutely nothing wrong with that! It's a fantastic machine, and even better looking
I've been contemplating upgrading from my GCP for quite some time now as i've outgrown it and would like some more consistency.. was always considering a Rocket apartemento, but this video has swayed me. Between the additional features, I actually think it looks better (particularly the cup rack), actually being cheaper, and currently flow control being added for free from whole latte love, I took the plunge and just ordered one. I can't wait for it to arrive!
Enjoy! You’re going to love it
How do you like the PP400? I'm in the same boat, upgrading from a GCP.
What would you recommend... I would normally use it the days I'm home (3-4 days a week) when I'm home I surely get 1-2 extractions + steaming milk. So the question is, if the profitec works well if it will be turn off after serving one ie capuccino and then hours later turned on again and another one? I'm talking about having to get warm every time I need to use it and then also cooling more than once in a day. I dunno why I have that in mind that having to warm up and cooling down could be a thing to keep in mind
Depending on how long in between drink, it may just be worth it to leave it turned on. However, regardless, the second heat up will be quicker once it's already warmed once that day. Perfectly normal use case for this machine to have 2 brewing sessions per day
@@LifestyleLab_ thank you! I'm wondering to get this machine I was about to get the gaggia Evo but I feel now more like buying this one. What are your thoughts comparing this one with the Rancilio Silvia pro? That one has two boiler, I watched a James Hoffman's comparison video they compare it with the 500 not the 400 and he mentioned the Silvia is really accurate with the pressure and heat out of the box while the 500 was a bit over the 9bars and the temperature.
If you're making regular milk drinks, I'd highly recommend going with something like this over a the Gaggia
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks again for sharing I really appreciate a recommendation from someone that knows a lot like you🙌🏼❤️ and compared with the profitec pro 400 and the rancilio Silvia pro?
@FabEnPeOr2 the Rancilio Silvia Pro is a far more capable machine capacity-wise as it is a dual boiler, but for home use making the number of drink you are, there isn't really a point in spending the extra $$
It was already mentioned in the comments, but those knobs/eyes look like something out of the Robots movie. Not sure why black wasn’t a colour option. As you eluded to, I’m sure we can expect some third party accessories such as wooden accents. Always a pleasure watching your reviews. 👌 you
I wondered this too. I actually like most of the disclets, but seems odd that a plain black wasn't offered. I'm sure we'll start seeing many DIY disclets soon enough. I'd probably just spray paint the green ones to be black myself
Bought mine 2 hours ago! Excited for it to arrive
Congrats!
@@LifestyleLab_ took me 9 months to finally pull the trigger lol.. But it was an easy choice thanks to your videos.
Looking to buy my first espresso machine. Would this be a good start?
Absolutely!
Just remember to save budget for a good grinder as well
Am I crazy to lean towards Bezzera BZ10 over this Pro 400? The aesthetics, simplicity and heat up time of the Bezzera have me leaning that way but I keep coming back to this review and general consensus that the Profitec Pro 400 is the best-in-class HX.
The BZ10 is also super compelling because of the electronically heated group head.
However, I would still personally opt for the Pro 400 because of the ability to adjust temperature with the 3 position switch, and the low pressure pre-infusion. The BZ10 loses those features which I place more value on that an actively heated group.
Thanks, I think you just solidified it for me. At same price point (including flow control), the German born features win out. Great videos by the way!
would the automatic preinfusion still be available with an e61 flow control installed? I know WLL sells the pro400 with and without flow control, so curious if you would have to pick between an automatic preinfusion and a manual flow control
I believe it would still work, you’d just leave the flow control wide open for the beginning of the shot while the pre-infusion is running, and then you could taper off towards the end of the shot as desired.
A question I’d definitely pass on to WLL though
Hey, just curious about whether you get to keep the machines these companies send you
If I adjust the OPV valve, can I subtly adjust the preset temperature on this machine?
I am strongly leaning towards buying this baby. Does it require flushing despite having that sort of PID?
Yes, ANY heat exchanger will require a flush if left sitting idle. Just the nature of that heating system :)
My home water is hard, is there a good water softener filter that seats inside the water tank? .....& Yes love your videos, so informative.
No, there’s not going to be anything that can accomplish that from inside the tank. You’ll want to use bottle water ppm 70-100 range, or filter your water ahead of time before putting it in the machine with something like a Brita. OR the best option is to use a mix like third wave water’s espresso profile
Got one and it is a fantastic upgrade from my GCP.
Thinking of making this exact upgrade. What makes this such a good upgrade?
There are a lot more features than the simple GCP. You have basic temperate control and can precisely set the pressure and steaming is much more powerful. Besides it's a regular E61 type machine and just a bit better than other entry level E61 systems. It's been a year since that video was posted and I got my 400 and there are other options out there you might look into like the Profitec Go or 300. @@azza2575
Recommend over the diletta too? At no extra cost, any disadvantages to going with the flow control option?
I do recommend these over the Diletta, absolutely if you can spend the extra money do it.
Only downside of flow control is that you do need to be at the machine and monitoring it / controlling it throughout the shot (also the advantage of it…)
Thanks!
Feels like a new version of the lelit Mara X. Very similar except the pre infusion and more easy switching of pressure.
I was set on the Marax, but the pro 400 really makes a compelling argument. The features, aesthetics mixed with the maraX's questions Quality Control really have me choosing the pro 400
Would this be an upgrade from the BDB? I dont find myself taking advantage of the dual boiler as it is.
Build quality-wise, yes. Espresso quality wise, probably not. You’d be better off upgrading your grinder
@@LifestyleLab_ You could be right, I have the Eureka Mignon Facile-thats a decent one though, eh?
How long does it take to heat the machine up?
Same as any other E61, around 4-5 minutes to get boiler pressure, another 10-15 minutes for the group and portafilter to get up to temperature passively.
Nice, but there are some HX machines with a PID for less money. Why would I opt for a 3 position switch when I can get a full blown PID?
Which HX has a full PID for cheaper?
Short answer regardless in this case would be build quality. Even compared to Lelit the Profitec units are on a different level
@@LifestyleLab_ yup, just re-checked prices and you are right... they are on a very fair price. Do you personally think a 3-position switch is enough for most espresso bean variants? Are these temperature settings accurate enough for dark-roast, mid-roast and light-roast?
I believe so, yes. A low, medium and high is enough flexibility for the vast majority of cases. When it comes to espresso, having degree perfect temperature adjustment is not the limiting factor for dialing in. Perfect puck prep, portafilter temperature, tamping pressure, all of these things impart more variability than slight temp shifts.
How is the height of the group head in relation to the drip tray compared to that of the Appartamento?
I have a 400 and it is 5 7/8" (150mm) from tray to group. About 3 1/2" (90mm) to the very bottom tip of the spouted portafilter. I don't have a bottomless yet for this machine but it would probably be about 5 1/2" (133mm) in that case.
Out of curiosity How does this compare with the lelit mara X? I have one and they sound pretty comparable
Feature sets are very comparable. Build quality I’ve always found Profitec to have a leg up
My dealer had the 400 next to the MaraX, side by side there is no comparison when it comes to build quality and looks.
My dealer discontinued selling the Mara X saying there were to many repairs (He had four broken ones in his back room). He recommends the Profitec now.
I would like them to do a pro300 with a bigger steam boiler.
I’d also want pre-infusion and brew pressure gauge as well and it would be perfect.
@@mattchang3266 it is basically a Silvia pro X as you described)))
How do you know when it has reached proper temperature?
You’ll hear the boiler stop heating, and you feel the portafilter to make sure it’s warm :)
Will you be able to review the Profitec Go soon? It seems like a polished version of the GCP+ Mods.
Absolutely
Can we make espresso and steam at the same time?
Yes absolutely, it’s a heat exchanger so it can brew and steam simultaneously
@@LifestyleLab_ thanx a lot great review as always 👍
I keep coming back to this video as I am tempted by the Pro 400 , however , now there is the ECM Mechanika VI Slim. Pretty much a similar spec apart from a bigger steam boiler. Is the ECM quality / finish worth spending an extra £250 / £300?
So I have seen both of them internally and they’re almost identical with the exception of the boiler size. So much so that I’ve seen videos of the pro400 with a Christmas tree that said ecm and looked to be identical to what’s on the mechanica slim vi
How would you compare this to the Rancilio Silvia Pro X ?
Apologies, I thought this comment was on a different video.
The Silvia Pro X is a fair competitor to the Pro 400. It doesn’t have the E61 classic design and function, but it gains a true PID and it is a Dual Boiler. So to very oversimplify, the Pro400 is better build more classic designed, the Pro X has more features in a still solid chassis
Its like the Lelit Mara X 👍🏼
The temperature model is similar to that of the Mara X.
Please review the crem one lineup? :)
Do you giveaway/donate any of these machines after you review them?
Many go back to the supplier, but we have done giveaways in the past :)
It seems to be an amazing machine. I just can't stop imagine a Wall-e or another kids movie robot waiting for humans to get out so it can roll around
Haha, these machines do always have some personality in their appearance with the "arms" and "eyes"
Great video as always! I'm very close to choosing this machine. Now I'm wondering if it's worth the $100 upgrade for flow-control? Is it possible to have the flow-control and not necessarily use it? Is there a certain neutral position that it can be used at? I'd play with it making espresso, but not when trying to froth milk, if that's possible.
Flow control only impacts the espresso brewing. Steam is a different loop :)
Yes, it is possible to just leave it in a neutral position if you don’t want to actively manipulate it
@@LifestyleLab_ Thanks that helps. I do get that the steam is a different loop. I meant to say "brewing espresso while simultaneously frothing milk." I guess you would just leave the flow control all the way open which I learned from another of your videos.
Not necessarily ALL the way open, but yes when steaming if you don’t want to be fiddling you can find the position that would be the same as not having the knob installed at all (same aperture size)
I’m researching this now and you came out with this yesterday. So grateful. Rocket has the sexier look in my opinion but the features just aren’t as good to me. Thank you.
Completely Agree, as someone who really got into home espresso around 2020, the rocket apartamento has always been my dream machine, because its gotta be the best looking e61 out there. That being said, now that I am more knowledgeable, I would really be making a lot of compromises if I were to buy something like the apartamento. The pro400 is the dead opposite. If you're okay with an HX, then the pro 400 has all the features you could really ever hope for especially at the price point.
@@givemekape2418 the apartemento has been my dream machine for quite a while too.. but I ended up purchasing a pro400. It looks quite similar and honestly I think it may look a little better, particularly the cup rail. But it’s a bit cheaper, and still has more features I wanted. was an obvious choice.
How do these E61 compare to the DE1 that you talk so highly of?
Very different systems.
E61 machines are very classic, rely on a large chunk of metal for temp stability. Takes a big lead on enjoyment to operate each day.
The Decent is a piece of tech really. Can't be beat in terms of repeatability and most importantly flow management for lighter roasts.
@@LifestyleLab_ So, let's say I don't care about operations, I just want the best tasting coffee ever, which one is more suitable? The reason why I ask is because I already have a Profitec Pro 700, which is a very good machine. I'm contemplating if the DE1 is actually an upgrade.
In terms of the best tasting espresso you can get, the DE1 can’t be beat right now
@@LifestyleLab_ Thanks for your clarification. Cheers.
@@LifestyleLab_ Ah, sir, please try a Londinium R24 Lever then discuss the taste comparison with your Decent DE1. Remember that you might be using the Londinium Profile on the Decent, but the ease of use of the R24 might truly surprise you, it did so for me. If Whole Latte Love supplies a Profitec Pro 800, a dipper type spring lever machine, to you, then hopefully you can do an additional comparison with an R24, and you might experience the additional pleasant surprises of the very easy to use Londinium preinfusion pressure/temperature profiling while on your way to the good tastes inherent in the lever world, also while using various roast level beans. Cheers
Im trying to decide between this pro 400 or the rancilio pro X, here in australia only 200 dolar difference so I don’t know which one to buy
If only a $200 difference, get the Pro X in a heartbeat. No contest.
@@LifestyleLab_ yeah, rancilio proX here is 2999 and pro 400 2799 AUD, thank you so much for the reply
For that price I would go for a dual boiler machine with PID. This machine temp control seems very limiting.
But what dual boiler PID machine is that price? 🤔
@@LifestyleLab_ Lelit Elizabeth, Rancilio Silvia Pro X, BDB.
But those are in different product classes? This is an E61 machine. If you’re shopping for a saturated group, yes those are good alternatives to note.
Silvia Pro X is far more expensive, Lelit is a great option but build quality is not up to Profitec levels, BDB is a great machine but has longevity issues
@@LifestyleLab_ Yeah, they don’t look as good as this Profitec but they should give more in the cup. Just my opinion, everybody is free to do whatever with they money.
Ascaso Steed Duo is another to add to that list! Great machine we just reviewed
Seems like Profitec/ECM switched to a Dti D530034100 electronic box for the Pro 400, instead of the prior widely used Cigar Dosatura box. This box enables a second pump-mode for auto preinfusion feature.
I agree to this review. It appears to be an amazing espresso machine, especially for its price point. @LSL. Did you have a look of the Profitec Pro 800 Lever Espresso Machine? This also appears to be a great espresso machine, and it's said that lever machines can provide a sweeter profile than what the E61 group heads can provide.
I’m hoping to take a look at the Profitec GO next, and then I’ll bring in the big boy 800 😎
great suggestion. I'd also love to see a review of the 800 and ECM Puristika.
Seems like a good comparison would be lelit mara x.
The mara x has the same features bet better looks and smaller footprint
E61 machines have one huge drawback: the long heat-up time (20-30 minutes or so). The Bezerra quickly heats up its brew head with electric elements, more suited for the average consumer. Agree?
Agreed on startup speed for sure. If you want fast heating, E61 isn’t the way to go
I think that you will find out who the real category killer is when you will review the Bezzera BZ-10......2 amazingly reliable years, no fuss, just good coffee!
and quick warm-up time !
So nice and complete notifications ...
The dip tray design where you have to tilt it to remove is a big design overlook/flaw.... and a potential dealbreaker.
I’m sticking with my ECM Slim.
Also a great machine! But no temp adjustment or pre-infusion if you’re cross-shopping with the Pro 400
@@LifestyleLab_ I agree but I’ve had my machine for 4 years with no problems. I love the steaming power and pre infusion is not that important to me. If I was shopping for a new machine the Profitec might be the better choice.
Absolutely worth sticking with what you’ve got :)
So it's a MaraX minus the thing that makes the MaraX good. Neat.
Well that’s an awfully pessimistic view… if you place a lot of value on a actively heated group, then I guess so :)
@@LifestyleLab_ I have reasoning for this, I promise.
Thermosiphon heat exchangers without a separate group thermometer have to be tuned via flow restriction - but tuning is kind of chasing your tail. You either get decent stability or quick temperature recovery, not both.
The MaraX sidesteps that issue by just reading the thermosiphon return temperature and adjusting the steam boiler as necessary. It recovers quickly _and_ is stable enough to never need flushing.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great system! But I don’t think reason to dismiss all other machines for
Who is this machine for?
Someone who wants an excellent value and excellent build quality E61 style espresso machine
@@LifestyleLab_ thank you so much. I mean it's probably not meant for a beginner right? It's more for an experienced barista.
@@laurenyoungs Not necessarily. Any espresso machine will require you to learn the same technique! As long as you pair it with a good espresso grinder you'll be good to go :)
@@LifestyleLab_ I love that answer!
Damn, my bambino plus gotta go.
“The machine warms up very quickly” Uhh you gonna tell us how long?
Maybe if you ask nicely :)
Heat exchangers are all generally around 3-4 minutes for the boiler to get to temperature and then another 10-12 for the group head and portafilter to be fully hot and ready to brew unless you run several blank shots
good machine but for this price they could add PID
It is very similar to the Lelit Mara X
Love your vides..
Thanks!
The complaint i have is about their design choice for their steaming valve.. It's really uncomfortable in hand.. It's like a too thin area to grip
It has the edge I’ve Apartamento
Surprisingly they did not use a proper 1-11-111 silk screened switch. Just a stock two on one off silk screened switch. That's my nit picking from an electrician stand point who loves coffee equipment ☕
Ha! Interesting!
Definitely not something I would have caught (nor known was tabu for an electrician). Love the nitpicking 😉
That annoyed me as well, however, I justified that it wouldn't be seen under the machine.
It is safe because only a few volts are applied to this switch in the signal circuit.
It might be more dependable, solid, all round better made, have more features etc but the Appartamento looks way better to me, especially in the black. And for that and only that Italy 1- Germany 0
Considering the rest of the features it is 1-99
This machine really needed flow control and unfortunately it doesn't, not for me.
Whole Latte Love sell it with flow control as well. Right now it’s actually a zero cost option! :)
@@LifestyleLab_ oh that's really good, I hope that's available in Asia where I reside.
Thanks for responding and great review
Red flag. Why would wholelattelove send to you for review. They know these machines in n out. Hummm
In what world is that a red flag?
Do you expect me to purchase a new $2k+ espresso machine every week to produce content for my channel? That wouldn’t be too sustainable now would it…
Looks like lelit have brought up the standard for all these other manufacturers that got lazy over the year's.
Quite possibly from a feature-set perspective. Now it’s Lelits turn to catch up on build quality
@Lifestyle Lab can you point to anything specific about Lelit’s built quality that concerns you? I notice you have mentioned this as a deciding factor a couple of times, and it’d be helpful to have a little context. Thanks!
I'm very concerned with how much of Lelit's product lineup with remain since Breville bought it. I think the Mara X and Bianca are safe, but grace, elizabeth and anna aren't safe. I think the Mara X needs to catch up to the 400 but am not sure how much Breville will invest in it.
@@htklun can't be that bad i would think they are out selling most of the competition.
I am sorry, the name “profitec Pro 400 “Just doesnt sound as Magic as “ Rocket Appartamento” . One Rocket for me please
espresso noob here, what does heat up time mean? i think that's amount of time until machine can pull a shot? if so, how does this compare to the breville dual boiler?
are there options like the dual boiler (program a time for machine to be ready / speedy warm up time) without looking so "appliance-y"?
Yes, that is what heat up time means
These machine will be around 45 seconds for the water to heat up, whereas the dual boiler will take 6-7 minutes because it has full sized boilers
@@LifestyleLab_ thanks for the answer, i'd always been under the impression that it took these machines half an hour to be ready to make coffee.
Anywhere you hear this is likely referring to how long it takes for the entire portafilter to warm up naturally by sitting in the group head. This is important for consistent brewing. However, the process can be sped up by running some hot water (referred to as blank shots) through the portafilter if needed