A Guide to Selecting the Right Subwoofer for You!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ก.ค. 2024
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Great idea to create this, it’s just doesn’t form completely with my iPhone Pro 11 screen. Small issue and kudos for having an off YT tool like Padlet.
Go big or go home! Oh wait, I only have a pair of tiny Paradigm Atoms (remember those?) but I’m still going to get JTRs because I can!
my guy fomo say it aint so........ you not one of those types rocking a 98 inch OLED with tiny subwoofs are you 🤨
Great video, i am going to send this to my friend as i cannot explain things like you have in this video and i can't get him to watch AV Rant video's as good as they are!
Currently on a bit of a joe n tell binge so keep this great content coming 👌
My three top key points, other than what you covered, is placement, whether you want an active or passive, and "do you have young kids?". I use a custom built enclosure, down firing 12" placed behind the couch. I have the external dedicated amp around 90ish degrees out of phase, crossover at 80 Hz. The reason I have the enclosure customized is because the kids climb on top of it and can't knock it over. With everything tuned, the bass appears to be coming from the TV but the couch will shake your butt so you really feel it.
Good points!
JoeNTell puts out a video, i watch. Don't overcomplicate things❤❤
I have Infinity il60 as front towers (12" 500wrms sub in each tower), they go very loud to about 30hz. Since they are ported I high passed them at 35hz.
I assist them with a Dayton um18 sub. I low passed the Dayton to 60hz.
Sound amazing, loud enough to make the whole house shake. And sound very good since the infinity subs take most of the frequency range where we detect distortion more.
I dedicated a 20 amp circuit + a 15 amp circuit for the home theatre. Always amazes the guests.
Good stuff as always, thank you!
Useful, as always. 👍
I have a small l/ medium living room set up. Running an svs sb 2000 pro. Sounds pretty nice. How do you personally rate those. Can you point me where i can learn to use the svs app to fine tune it? Haven’t been able to wrap around the bass controls yet.
Thanks Joe clear video and already helping
I’m gonna connect my Rotel preamp sub out to my sub to see what result that gives me …
This is a great video , especially about not mixing sealed and ported subwoofers
I tried to keep it simple.
Great video Joe, thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it
I have the Marantz 60 with Paradigm 9 V2 LCR and Subwoofer OSD Trevoce EQ DSP 12”
Question is about my settings :
My LCR speaker AVR Crossover is at 80hz
My Sub Low Pass Filter is at 90hz
Is that a good combo ?
Which one do you prefer, Kanto SUB8 or Audioengine S8?
Just bought a new rel ht1205 mk1 for £450. More than enough for me and love the quality
Glad you're enjoying your system.
Lots of good sensible information on this video.
I personally choose my subwoofer(s) for my listening habits. 75/25 in favour of two channel, IMO warrants musical subs! No big bad boys for me. Mind you, I'm only in a 13 x 11.5 ft livingroom therefore I'll stick with my stereo pair of 8 inch rel subs. At least going this I can look my neighbour's in the face 😂
Hi Joe.. did you ever review the rsl 12s?
Coming up in the next day or two
Actually
I have an open living room on one side and I want low clean and punchy bass. I notice some boominess from my horn speakers with twin 12” woofers rather clean bass. I blame the Rotel 1590 MKII preamp but that will be changed later on.
New digs. I dig.
Thanks. Just a different angle in my office/studio.
Hi Joe, I have triangle ln01a , which subwoofer will be best for these. Thanks
Check out my subwoofer leaderboard and see if there's something there that interests you? I have reviews on all of those.
Everyone talks about sealed vs ported sub but what about subwoofers with passive woofers?
My mains are a pair of massive Snell XA90PS towers that each have a pair of 10” subs powered by a 300 watt RMS amplifier but the reality is that my pair of Mirage BPS-400’s and pair of SVS SB-3000 Pro’s have a combined output that those 4 10” subs can’t remotely come close to. So I cross them over at 40hz and they’re ran as small just like the rest of the bed and height layer.
I think people are sleeping on Paradigm Defiance x10 and x12 subs. From mid to large rooms, with 2 of these can make a listening experience nice. Even for music. They work very seamlessly with Anthem receivers/ARC Genesis. I would love to see what you think of these speakers.
The martin logan dynamo 1100 is also no joke. Paradigm/martin logan make phenomenal subs that are not giant eyesores!
@@charlesking678 Indeed. I think they are considered older subs and have been out for awhile, people just don't look at them. And the price point is a lot, compared to the newer subs, but I think they deserve some reviews. SVS and Monolith are good subs for their price point though.
Elac is a great speaker line esp the Andrew Jones lines.
JL audio fathom f113 is the perfect subwoofer for everyone
If you can afford it
Thanks for doing this video. I have a couple questions that my help other people. In my 200 sqft room with permanent openings to other rooms, im running x3 svs pb2000 @ 500w rms each on a designated 20a circuit. I’d like to upgrade to bigger subs but don’t know what would make a bigger impact and what my 20a circuit can handle. I can do x3 pb3000 @800w ea, x3 sb4000 at 1200w each, or x3 sb16 @ 1500w each. Given room size and power consumption, any recommendations?
Dang! That sounds like a lot of subs for 200sq ft. I would have to know the total size of the space including where it opens to. In most situations, 3 well placed pb2000 subs should sound great.
@@joentell on one wall I have 25sqft of openings to other rooms. Im assuming those suck outs are why my 3 2000k can’t pressurize the room well enough.
@@joentell I can achieve a pretty nice response with my MiniDSP, minus a couple nulls at 80 & 100hz. I just get slim to none tactile from them.
@@SunnySkiesInAZ it truly sounds like you're in a null. I can't imagine how a 3 x PB2000's couldn't produce tactile bass in a 200sq ft room.
Let me ask you. If two different subs, a 500w 12” and 1500w 15” are measured in the same position. Is there over all response the same? I realize the spl and low end extension is different but what about 20-200hz, are the peaks and nulls in the two responses very similar?
Is -3db just that standard like 120 LFE? Mine is a 12 inch and goes to 27hz, I am happy with it but would like a second one. Good video
thats because an increase of just 3db requires double the power of an amp
so if you have a 100 watt amp and want to gain an extra +3db you need to replace it with a 200 watts amp but that doesn't mean you're doubling the sound level, for that you'd need a +10db increase
lets make it simple this way for you
if you're receiving 100 dB SPL from 100 watts and you want 110 dB SPL, you will need 1000 watts of power. That's quite a lot
@@demonreturns4336 denon s760h with a Jamo c912 subwoofer, what should i set it at?
@@Mjaybird set what?
If you’re talking about the cross overs for each speaker then let audyssey set those for you once you run it
If you wanna do it manually and know the low frequency cutoff point of each of your speaker then set it that way
Or just use the universal recommended 80hz
If you’re talking about LFE channel for your subwoof then leave that at 120hz
@@demonreturns4336 I have my subwoofer at 120 LFE and -3 level. I turned down the gain to 40% on the subwoofer
I've been in audio for over 40 years and realize how little I know about subs and proper sub integration in a music only stereo setup.
Owned a Rel T-Zero for brief while and would end up turning it off most of the time with anything with rhythm as it just messed things up. Been reluctant to go down the sub rabbit hole ever since but a small footprint decor friendly sub like the KC-62 would be something I might consider. However I have a feeling the adventure would be short lived just like the Rel. Unless I had somebody to hold my hand and guide me through the whole process. Which small sub for low-medium level music listening, Mini DSP or not, ??? etc.
The DSP stuff is not as easy as it should be. I ran an IT business for 10 years so it's second nature for me. I get that it isn't for everyone though. If you're ever interested, I offer remote calibration services. Http://joentell.com/booking I think you might be amazed at how well a subwoofer can blend into the system.
@@joentell Thanks, I might take you up on that offer. First I need to a) build up the courage to spend on a sub despite previous experience b) figure out which sub (as mentioned for aesthetic reasons the KC-62 really speaks to me).
BTW - I enjoy your no BS approach to audio. I check out lots of TH-camrs but you're one of the very few that don't irritate me with their shtick.
@@mikecees2230 I appreciate that. Just know that the KC62 adjusts it's response dynamically based on volume. It's also a bit expensive for what it is, but the performance at that size is surprising.
Would you consider certain sub designs to be more musical... or is the SQ v SPL a marketing strategy for the most part?
I think a flat response is what makes it "musical." Also, proper time alignment and a good blend with the main speakers. All things equal, a sealed enclosure has a tighter, more controlled response.
@@joentell Any tips or tricks on the good blend part? And who in your opinion makes such a sub as you've described?
@@colinchang1543 if you have an AVR, it can time and phase align your sub to your main speakers. From there you may need to set the subwoofer level by ear.
A sub that you might like might be something like the SVS SB3000 or the new ELAC VARRO Reference I recently reviewed. SVS has less expensive sealed subs also.
Your reviews are the best Joe! I bought the 2000W monolith 13in. It's insane but honestly I want MORE bass. I really don't understand DSP, do you have a video about it?
Also, this sub draws 2000w, but my wall outlet maxes out at 1800w... (120v x 15A) Is this something I should be concerned about? Do I need more power?
That 13" Monolith is a beast. DSP is especially useful when you have 2 or more subs and you want to optimize for multiple seats. DSP is still useful for one seat and one sub.
I have some crazy stuff going on with a Pb2000pro and a pb1000 at front and back wall midpoints. If i had DSP for the pb1000, a lot of my struggles would be mitigated
DSP can definitely help. Did you choose wall midpoints over cornvers for better seat to seat consistency, or because that's where fit?
I picked for consistency, but I also considered the future. I have 2 rows and plan to add 2 more subs at the side walls when I have the funds set aside. What's funny is that in REW I hit 90 db+ in the 20-40hz range and -3db from reference is 12-14hz depending on the seat, but only if I turn on room gain compensation @20hz on the pb2000pro before running audyssey. Otherwise, no matter what curve I set, I get neutered low end extension(drops like a rock at 22hz) by allowing audyssey to correct for the room gain. The before measurements are night and day with my room gain hack to get that ultra low end(for my subs) back.
@@Davidvariance It sounds like you could definitely benefit from MSO. I have a single 4-row seating arrangement, 3 subs, and with MSO, I have around 1.5dB of variance from seat to seat.
@@joentell you're right, I have been waiting until I add more subs to add a minidsp, but perhaps I should jump ahead to that. Now I'm re-thinking my goal should be integrate a 3rd sub with minidsp and then determine my needs as far as a 4th sub goes.
@@Davidvariance a MiniDSP is a must if you want the best possible bass. It's fun to nerd out with it too! If you have smooth bass and enough SPL, then I don't see a need to add more subs. I have 3 connected but have more that are unused. I just don't see the need to add more in my situation.
I think the best "bang for your buck" sub is the Hsu VTF-15H Mk 2. No modern bells and whistles, just pure performance. Have you heard it before? I just got my 2nd one and it's been incredible.
I hear great things. I asked Dr. Hsu if I could review some of his stuff and he said he wasn't interested. I can respect that.
@@joentell Haha OK. I'll threaten to return my recent sub unless he lets you review it.
@@joentell damn really? Well that sucks
How about rythmik subs? Any interest in reviewing those?
They ALWAYS mentioned in AVS forums
Is it possible to get a subwoofer for a soundbar, that doesn't have one from the manufacturer?
It depends on whether the sound bar as an RCA output or not. Most likely not though.
No output except the eARC output for TV. @@joentell
@@alokdash35 there are HDMI ARC to RCA adapters that you could maybe split off. It can be done, but I'm not sure how well it will work or whether it's worth it.
Elac subs - I'll add a plug for them however your current Preamp/AVR/Preamp processor MUST have at least one subwoofer output with control for Volume, Distance (delay), and Phase -OR- If your current Preamp/AVR/Preamp processor has all of the EQ'ng power needed for all Speakers including 2-5 Subwoofers then you can save quite a bit on your Subwoofers by buying them w/o any of the unnecessary Bells-n-Whistles (EQ, DSP, App, etc.)..., and with the money you've saved you can buy bigger and/or multiple subwoofers.
### UPDATE ### (as in I misspoke) - your Preamp/AVR/Preamp processor need NOT have at least one Subwoofer output with control over Volume, Distance (Delay), and Phase in order to utilize the excellent DSP/Delay/EQ'ng within the Elac subs, however you "must" place all subwoofers a minimum of three feet closer than the "closest" speaker in your system (whether it be 2.1, 5.1 or a 9.6.6 setup)...
My 15” Dayton audio is hard to beat at$179. I could spend a lot more and not get much bang for my buck. Only for movies so clean isn’t a priority.
🤦♂
1:02 this living room seems to reduce bass. My brother has the same YAMAHA NS SW300. And in the house he used to live in the subwoofer had har more bass and it went deeper down than it does in my living room here.
He moved house over a year ago and in his house that he is living in the subwoofer still has more bass and goes deeper in bass than my living room here.
This rooms acoustics are absolutely awful.
You might want to experiment with where the subs are placed AND where you sit. Try the sub in the corner and play something with bass. Then walk around the room. What do you notice?
1. Always choose a passive before a active. When what is always breaks.. yes it is the plate amp on a active. Approx 5 years for the plate amp but the box and driver might last approx 15 years. Then you need not fix or buy another one too soon when there is a lot of life left in the box and driver..
2. Never DSP in a subwoofer when you are a 2ch audiophile. That sub DSP is at totally wrong place in your 2ch system and so dumb.
You should have your subwoofer in before all yours amplifiers or as preamp.
Then you can utilize it completely for the whole frequency range and on all drivers!
Someone send this to Gene he took a dig at Joe indirectly at the famous “that Long Island ice tea hit me hard” podcast.
Zzzzzzzz. Who cares. I'm busy focusing on what I'm doing, not on what another man/woman is saying/doing. If they're not someone I would consider a friend or someone I respect, they're irrelevant to me. That's good advice for anyone trying to do anything in life. There will always be haters. If you don't want criticism, do nothing and no one will care.
@@joentell if you don't have haters then you aren't doing something right hahah
I always think of it as if someone is hating on you and bringing you up for no reason, you’re on their mind and are effecting them more than they are effecting you.
@@joentell I don't know why you guys don't get along. You both advocate for similar things, science, measurements, and no BS. It's a shame because you are both some of the best ones out there!
@@adamjj85 It's not on my end. I'm just doing my thing. Running my own race. I don't pay attention to what he's doing. It's irrelevant to my goals.
What is wrong with your eye movement? You look like a rendering.🤔
Ahhh...you're the first one to catch it! I was waiting for someone to notice. LOL. I purposely looked away the entire time and I let this Ai thing that makes it look like I'm looking straight. Good "eye" Pun intended.
Where are all the high-end subs in your rankings? These are all mid-fi.
What models are you thinking of specifically?
@@joentell Something from the likes of Rel, JL Audio, Wilson, Magico, Yg Acoustics, ect.......
@@kurtbrisch5776 REL doesn't believe in using DSP from what I've heard before. I know someone with 2 of their 1508 Predator subs and the amps are failing on both of them. So, I'm not excited to try those. The others are outside of my budget, although I might be able to review some JL Audio stuff. The measurements don't lie though. I've seen some extremely expensive Magico subs that had measurements that were not very impressive. Measurements don't care what something costs: they are what they are.
@@joentell I personally have owned two different models of Rel subs with zero difficulties and yes they are made for a type of listener who shys away from digital processing and are more of a purist design. I don't care how something measures, I don't listen with a mic and a computer, I use my ears.
@@kurtbrisch5776 if you don't think that what you hear and what can be measured are correlated in some way, I don't know what to tell you. The entire study of psychoacoustics is dedicated to understanding that correlation. This stuff is well understood and easy to comprehend if you're willing. Do you think that the peaky response I showed a measurement of would sound good? Hopefully we can at least agree that it is an undesirable sound based solely on what I showed. If not, that's ok. I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.