Replay Value Keikaku is actually closer to plan. Not strategy. However they are loosely interchangeable. This is made very apparent in Eva where the term keikaku is overused and it’s meaning is plan in the context.
Basically, from my experience: If the viewer knows the plan before it happens, then either (1) something is not going according to plan, or (2) there will be a sudden yet inevitable betrayal at the end. If the viewer finds out the plan while it happens, it'll go all according to plan. If the viewer finds out the plan *after* the plan happens, then that's the author signalling to the audience that the planner is supposed to be super-smart.
I've seen cases were the viewer knows the objective and the plan, at least partially, and the plan succeeds. The key is that the focus is no longer on the plan, but on it's execution and how others react to it.
Didn't they go over the Palace invasion plan in HxH 2011 before it was executed AND they went through the plan as it happened … and it succeeded anyway? I mean sure, Netero died but it was stated multiple times that one of them were probably going to die during the mission.
A variation on the last one: The audience knows the strategies and goals of both parties, and the excitement comes from seeing how these strategies will interact when set into motion. And also how inevitably one or both sides will have to adapt.
+Kristian Bjerke Dalen -- I was thinking the same thing. "Dueling Generals" is sort of like "timeline strategic explanation" in many ways. The movie "The Patriot" is essentially a feature-length example -- Not only do we follow Ben Martin and his raiders as they repeatedly attack Cornwallis' supply lines, we see the power plays this causes between Cornwallis and Tavington on the British side as they try to stamp out the growing insurgency. This culminates in a hot mess of a final battle scene shot mostly from Cornwallis' perspective in order to let the cliches flow. However, most of the surprises are actually set up well in advance. You also see "Dueling Generals" a lot during the World War 2 films of the 50s and 60s, as well as modern documentary shows. The key is dramatic irony -- rather than doling out information peacemeal, the writer goes overboard and gives two (or more) conflicting possible outcomes. Extra points if *both* sides make decisions based on incomplete information. I'm honestly quite sick of armies appearing from nowhere at the last minute, equipment breakdowns and new powers as the plot demands. I much prefer plays on Checkov's armoury, MacGyvering and Heroic Sacrifice.
That last one might as well be called the "Sylvester McCoy." During his tenure as The Doctor, most plots would revolve around him coming up with a great strategy, which the audience knows, and then having to run around fixing things that go wrong with it to make it work.
Legend of the Galactic Heroes does this well. Sure, there are cases when the main character is in control of the operation the whole time and outclasses his opponent, but just as often, if not more, there are times when they have to face competent enemies who have their own plans and force the other to adapt, it's actually really entertaining.
Thank you for mentioning Shiroe buying the guild building. (i initially clicked on this video hoping it'd come up XD) great video altogether mate! i will be checking out a lot more of your stuff!
There is another way that I think should be explored more: Lie to the audience. This is closely tied with 1 & 3. Set up a POV character that needs to be deceived. This could be an enemy commander or a spy. The enemy commander or spy pieces together the plan of the main character(s) and explains it in one way or another to the audience, or else has the plan presented to them (for example, a spy being told by the main character(s) what the plan is or their "crucial role" in the plan). Then, at the moment when the plan the audience was given is about to fall apart, reveal that it was deception and the plan was actually something else entirely. I've seen this done a few times. Actually, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure has done it quite a bit. The "Joestar secret technique" is built on this.
Bakugo: blasts a hole into a wall. All might: don't do that. Izuku: punches a hole through every fucking story in the building. All Might is playing favorites here.
It was because bakugo was supposed to be treating the place like his lair and was risking the bomb going off (if it were real), deku specifically aimed for the area that wouldn't hit the bomb, as was still lectured for being reckless
Though I think it would certainly get old if used frequently, my favorite is the style where you don't necessarily even know a plan is happening, you see events portrayed which seem unimportant, or important but unclear how, and then later it's revealed how they play into the character's goals. I suppose a somewhat adequate (although of the 'important but unclear how' variant) would be Hohenheim depositing various souls around the country throughout the middle parts of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood. An example of the 'unimportant' might be a character making a call to an equipment rental company, inquiring about renting some construction machinery, and then there's a scene transition, and that scene is forgotten/put to the back of your mind until later on when the main character and his buddies are fighting the villains on a rooftop, and then the building starts collapsing as a wrecking-ball smashes into it, causing the main character and his buddies to adapt to the sudden destruction and change of the playing field.
One more type of strategy trope that you didn't include I call the dilemma strategy, in this variety the plan is explained in full but it all hinges on one element of the plan that is either partially or fully outside the strategist's control or involves a significant moral dilemma. Since both the audience and strategist are aware of this key element the suspense and character development comes from what the strategist is willing to do or sacrifice to influence this one element of uncertainty towards his favor. An excellent example of this comes from the movie Red Cliff: the entire final battle hinges on the winds changing direction but when they realize that the winds aren't going to change in time the characters face numerous moral and personal decisions in order to delay the battle until the winds change.
Another strategy trope the video maker didn't include is when the strategist explains his plan to the audience in advance and then every thing happens according to plan. This is what happens when the strategy is so good (or the person he is strategising against is so inept) that not even revealing it to the public can foil it! Take Three Kingdoms, for example, when Cao Cao gets an idea to BUILD AN ICE FORTRESS against Ma Chao, so he does. And then Ma Chao's arrows are ineffective against Cao Cao's fortress!
Canaris4 very true, however that does kind of negate the suspense aspect of the plot and while the video maker didn't explicitly state that to be a limiting factor, all his other trope examples dealt with how suspense is maintained in the strategy genre so I took that to be an implicit conditional for types of strategy tropes.
I couldn't get into Alderamin because its main character commits a war crime in the first episode (they pretend to surrender and then kill the off-guard soldiers, which is war crime under the Geneva Conventions called perfidy). Does it get any better or do they just continually engage in trash strategies like that?
My problem was how the show was trying to make him a sympathetic good guy main character (or at least a generic good guy white knight underneath his exterior). When your main character commits a war crime and surrender-deceptions used by WW2 era Japanese fascists in the first episode, then that portrayal kinda falls apart. I wouldn't mind if they had straight up made him more of a bad guy, a Machiavellian character, or an actual don't-give-a-damn character in the beginning as that would be far more fitting.
Suprised you never mentioned the Genthru fight in Hunter X Hunter. It's a serise of misdirections played at the audience after we find out that they have formed a plan. It constantly makes us question what the plan actually is. Like the audience has to question why Gon, the weakest of the 3 is going to face down the leader of the Bombers head to head. But each step the show illustrates how it is going to plan despite there not seeming to be one. Gon anticipates Genthrus attacks and has countermeasures planned. The best subversion comes when Gon reveals that he has actually been working off of his own plan and not the one the group developed, then he relents and goes along with the groups plan after his attempt fails. This says a ton about Gons charecter while making you think the situation has gone off the rails and is hopeless. You think the plan has failed only to realize that the real plan hasn't even been attempted yet.
i like the adaptive on-the-spot strategies of the invasion finale. each piece starts out with an intricate initial gameplan and their desired success states, which is justified and useful here because they have to split off and improvise, and the only way to stay coordinated is to assume everyone else is trying to stick to the plan, too. a character who can adapt and overcome is stronger than one who can only strategize, and is more fit for a chaotic world that doesnt act like a chessboard. thats what i like about hxh strats, its organic as heck
@Excelsior hxh constantly states that power levels depends on matchups, flexibility and raw nen. gons not a hardened veteran hunter or a career assassin, he's just gon, with a single very powerful attack that of course can burn killuas hands because he's standing there holding the darned thing
@Excelsior if you think back to killua drawing the line of their child prodigy power levels vs an actual adult like hisokas, then on the kilometer scale they're pretty close in level, but on the cm scale killua takes the lead
Surprised that JoJo's Bizarre Adventure wasn't mentioned, which I believe has some of the most consistently amazing and thought-out strategic battles since Hunter x Hunter.
What about option 4. Pull a bunch of random deus ex mechena plot twists outta your ass then have your “strategist” claim it was all part of their plan. Examples lex Luther in Batman v Superman, Zemo in captain America civil war, and Aizen from bleach after his arc went on way to long.
I once saw a 4chan post on good vs bad writing of smart characters. Here's some copypasta. "Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men is a smartly written smart character. When Chigurh kills a hotel room full of three people he books to room next door so he can examine it, finding which walls he can shoot through, where the light switch is, what sort of cover is there etc. This is a smart thing to do because Chigurh is a smart person who is written by another smart person who understands how smart people think. Were Sherlock Holmes to kill a hotel room full of three people. He'd enter using a secret door in the hotel that he read about in a book ten years ago. He'd throw peanuts at one guy causing him to go into anaphylactic shock, as he had deduced from a dartboard with a picture of George Washington carver on it pinned to the wall that the man had a severe peanut allergy. The second man would then kill himself just according to plan as Sherlock had earlier deduced that him and the first man were homosexual lovers who couldn't live without eachother due to a faint scent of penis on each man's breath and a slight dilation of their pupils whenever they looked at each other. As for the third man, why Sherlock doesn't kill him at all. The third man removes his sunglasses and wig to reveal he actually WAS Sherlock the entire time. But Sherlock just entered through the Secret door and killed two people, how can there be two of him? The first Sherlock removes his mask to reveal he's actually Moriarty attempting to frame Sherlock for two murders. Sherlock however anticipated this, the two dead men stand up, they're undercover police officers, it was all a ruse. "But Sherlock!" Moriarty cries "That police officer blew his own head off, look at it, there's skull fragments on the wall, how is he fine now? How did you fake that?". Sherlock just winks at the screen, the end. This is retarded because Sherlock is a smart person written by a stupid person to whom smart people are indistinguishable from wizards. "
the Sherlock thing was pretty funny. Another good example I saw was from a youtube video tearing apart the latest pirates of the Caribbean movie for turning jack sparrow into a lucky idiot. Then he gave a number of scenarios form the previous movies that demonstrated he was fairly mart and cunning, but used the random idiot thing as a cover. For instance when ever he would be brought into a certain death scenario, the first thing he would do is start rambling like and idiot and fiddling with everything in sight. While he's stalling for time, the camera shows him noting all the important variables in the room, and anything he touches is repositioned to play to his advantage. When it came time for his escape it was less random coincidence and more of an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine that he intentionally set up himself.
I might have to watch some Alderamin. I feel like another particularly strong example of strategic writing is the Chimera Ant arc of Hunter x Hunter, particularly the climax.
@Excelsior sperating the king from his royal guards is a strategy . Knuckle and morel vs yopi Morel vs pouf Knuckle and shoot vs youpi Killua vs pouf Netero vs meruem . That was the climax without mentioning the tons of FiGhTs before the climax Gon vs two ant soldiers Killua vs the ant army Killua vs the fish brothers Kite , gon , killua vs the ant army Gon vs knuckle Basically every fight in hxh require a strategy in it , the whole show is based of Characters strategizing in literally everything , it's actually stupid how the video mentioned MHA the most bland shonen anime with the most basic shallow planing ever and not mentioning hxh
@Excelsior we're not talking about the complexity of strategy here ( altho hxh had alot of complicated fights I mean hisoka vs chrollo is just on another level ) you said you don't recall alot of strategy and I listed those many fights to offend that . Strategy is not only used in fights , when you to achieve a goal in your life it could be anything Strategy is used mainly now days in economics and politics not only war . Btw the video has a very shallow understanding of what strategy is So lemme tell you what's the main principals of strategy are : 1) address the goal 2) search for data 3) analyze these data 4) form a plan 5) making a decision Remember when gon and killua got back to wheel island to search for more information about ging ? Those are the first two steps They knew about the box and learned greed island but they noticed how stupidly expensive this game is / step 3 Then they tried to gain more money to buy the game and to do that they decided to go to Yorknew city auction to buy and sell items / step 4 and 5 This is how strategy works , another examples are : when kurapika decided to work for nustrad family to track the phantom troupe Or when the spiders decided to stay to face kurapika Or when kite knew the chimera ant queen place located in NGL Or when the troupe wanted to find the Nen exscorsist And alot more don't get me start with the recent arc of the manga Characters in hxh always strategize before they move in the world or to achieve something , even hisoka If hxh is not one of the best examples of strategy in storytelling then what's strategy anymore
I think this might be my favorite video from you yet. It applies to many anime and is a topic I don't think I ever seen discuss. Which is interesting cause it a topic that can help in understanding why certain battle or tactical scene work or don't work. Heck this video made me look back on so many shows like ACCA and Izetta. Speaking of mega point for having clips from ACCA and I definitely check out the show you recommended. I'm always on the watch for good animes.
Have you seen Rokka no Yuusha? It goes all over the way with strategy in a good scence, with the slowest but nice pacing of one LN for the whole season.
This is a very anime overview of strategic writing, as it's very grounded in both visual media, and a Japanese understanding of military strategy. Breaking these conventions by tying the viewers knowledge to a specific POV, or depicting a canny strategist who accounts for potential setbacks can help keep your writing fresh an unpredictable.
Have you watched/read World Trigger? It's definitely the most tactically satisfying story I've seen in a long time. It takes a while to really come into its own but you'll see multiple strategies playing out against each other at the same time, with plans going off the rail and characters being forced to improvise. I love the 3-sided battles too because each team has more than one group of opponents to consider
I was really impressed with the tactic explanation in Attack on Titan season 1 during the Female Titan arc. That made Erwin my favorite character in the show
You get MAJOR points for being the only youtuber I've seen talk about Aderamin. It was one of my favorites for that season, and I'm so sad that it's probably just an advertisement anime to sell the light novels...
Well, that's just how MadHouse works. It would have to be popular beyond belief to be awarded a second season. Then again, anime by Madhouse is just my way of checking out which light novels would be cool to read.
Agreed! At least Overlord keeps getting more seasons/cours from Madhouse. It's fairly strategic, and seems to be getting more complex as the show goes on (thankfully).
Ah yes, overlord, one of the light novels I went out to read :P I do recommend reading them, as the strategy goes more in-depth over there. Same applies for NGNL :P
You talked about 2 of my favorite shows, Log Horizon and Code Geass, then mentioned another show I haven't seen yet as an underappreciated jem. Now I'm excited, have found 2 new shows to watch, and a new TH-cam channel.
I'm so glad you mentioned alderamin on the sky. It is one of my favorite and underrated anime ever. Ikta came across as a jerk sometimes, but he was an amazing strategist, and did whatever it took to guarantee victory. I also love his line "heroes die from overwork." With his lazy personality, it clearly defines that he doesn't see himself as a hero, and the audience shouldn't either. This makes it easier to see him pulling off some of the underhanded tactics he used. He isn't righteous, and his strategies show that.
Great vid! Watching this, it occurs to me that one of my favorite TV moments was kind of a cross between types 1 and 3... and something else, as the viewer didn't even KNOW that there WAS a plan! The moment was on Star Trek: The Next Generation, in the episode "The Defector". The crew takes aboard an Romulan admiral (Jarok) who wants to prevent a war, but is not forthcoming with details. All through the episode as the crew tries to figure out if this guy is on the level, there's one or two throw-away lines where Captain Picard has Mr. Worf (his Klingon security officer) take care of something off-screen. Finally, Jarok comes clean and takes the Enterprise to a part of space where he'd seen a massive invasion force being assembled. But there's nothing there. As they're about to leave, they get ambushed by a pair of Romulan Warbirds (just one being more than match for the Enterprise). The Romulan commander applauds Jarok for falling for the the ploy, and demands the Enterprise's surrender, but Picard is oddly calm about the situation. We find out why when he signals Lt. Worf, who summons the 3 or 4 cloaked Klingon warships that had been escorting the Enterprise the entire time, forcing the Romulans to withdraw with their tails between their legs. This easily could have been a dues-ex machina, but the little cut-aways and the crew's un-surprised reaction to the ambush makes you realize they knew they were walking into a trap the entire time, and prepared accordingly.
One unmentioned (and uncommon) way to build tension is to explain multiple contradictory plans (either from opposing sides or from people working together badly) and deriving tension from the uncertain ways these plans interact.
I like the way they mixed it in Ocean's 11. First you get an overview, but it's not a plan, yet -- it's a list of obstacles they must overcome to rob the casino. So you know what, but not how. Then they show the preparation and training phase, but only selected bits, like the replica of the vault. You get an incomplete idea of how. Then something happens and the entire plan is in jeopardy. They find a an alternative way and keep going. The plan is set in motion, things work just fine. Then a bunch of stuff seems to go sideways, but is later revealed to be part of the plan. Those missing bits make all the difference and you are still as surprised as the guy being robbed -- even though you were there from the start.
As much as I love Legend of Galactic Heroes, I gotta say...A good chunk of the strategies and plans Reinhard and Yang make work usually because the enemy they’re facing is incompetent.
Great video! I got hyped for this yesterday when I saw Ikta Solork on the thumbnail. You did a good job succinctly defining and giving an example of each section, as usual. Hopefully you can end up making a full video on Alderamin in the future. I agree that it's a tad overlooked, though I'm sad that we will probably not get another season (no evidence of this, just my predilection).
I'd have to say some of my favourites comes from Initial D. More often than not, a lot of racing based media becomes a power struggle, competition of skill or emotional conflict. But Initial D adds a extra layer to it by having characters plan ahead and on the fly to pinpoint certain flaws, strenghts, habits and styles of both the car and the driver. My favorite example being the race between Keisuke's FD3S and Kobayakawa's Lancer Evolution VII.
I feel like the palace invasion part of the Chimera Ant arc in Hunter x Hunter has all 4 styles wrapped into this huge, 30 episodes long "battle". Some parts of the plan are only explained post-action, some are being narrated with the action, a few key details about character intentions get omitted, but most importantly, almost everything goes wrong within the first second of the plan's execution - Youpi unexpectedly sitting on the staircase, not to mention a bunch of other instances where the ants completely shatter our expectations. It's probably a popular example in the comments, but I can't help mentioning it..
1 The Master of Ragnarok gives a modern boy with a cell phone centuries worth of tech and strategies to overcome bronze age opponents. But the they fell apart in the last few episodes, requiring a suspenseful adaptive gamble. 2 Lord Marksman and Vanadis episodes often gave good strategic exposition between battles.
I believe there is a 4th way a narrative may convey strategy: When the viewpoint of the plan is limited, and everyone is led on to believe the plan was one thing, only to be something else. Everyone including the viewers and even the main characters. The reason why I would say this is different from the other ways of conveying strategy, is because of the intent by the writers and creators to lead the audiences by the nose by a seemingly obvious plan, only to reveal a much deeper purpose. In Attack on Titan, the character Erwin is presented as a genius strategist. When the Female Titan Arc began in the show, the viewers and manga readers were presented what they "thought" was a plan. A survey outside the walls. However, that "plan" seemingly goes wrong to the readers and viewers when the Female Titan arrives and attempts to capture Eren. Yet, it turns out that Erwin's original purpose was to capture the traitor in their midst by giving them an opportunity, it being the survey. The viewers are misled at first, and so are even the main characters. Yet looking back on the previous episodes, as well as through flashbacks, there were several signs pointing to Erwin's plan and thinking, which the main characters soon figure out during the operation through an explanation by Armin. This plan and part of the show falls into this category I believe. By presenting to the audience and main characters a fake plan, only for them to end up being betrayed "seemingly by surprise", only to show that the entire purpose was different than stated, with the "traitor" trope acting as a red herring to a bigger reveal. This is slightly overshadowed by Armin explaining the secret plan near the end of it, but the revealation made by Armin at that point is made to shock the audience as well as the main characters, which only gives more credit to Erwin and his genius.
GoT season 3 episode 9 titled the “Red Wedding” had the best fall off the rails strategy ever. The show runners completely laid out the goals that protagonist wanted to achieve leading up to episode 9. Explaining in detail the outcome that was supposed to happen. They even gave the protagonist a small victory indicating he was, well on his way to victory and then episode 9 when everything falls apart. The audience is left jaws on the floor wondering what the hell happened. What makes this episode even better is in the next episode the shower runners restate an off hand comment made by the antagonist about the protagonist that audience was simply made to brush off as cocky ramblings of a old man who is close to defeat.
My Hero does the "don't tell,just do" the strategy thing BEFORE your example too, when Izuku hits the ball with all his power concentrated into his finger. Even though the plan was pretty obvious, it sets up how the series will handle strategies like this in the future, and showed us to expect turn around tactics like this from Izuku.
One method that is rarely seen. Is the method of no plan survives first combat. Where the plan changes mid mission because of unforeseen circumstances. Sometimes multiple times in the same mission. Which is amazing when done well. Unfortunately it's not often done at all.
10:46 I think my favorite example of this happens in one of the later arcs of Hunter x Hunter. A plan goes off the rails on both sides of the conflict and we get a great insight into how they deal with the new situations. It made me love basically every character involved so much more and I was on the edge of my seat for the entire arc
Nnnnno? No it doesn't. Code Geass does play mix and match with some of these tropes, sometimes using more than one at once, sometimes using tropes that aren't even on this list, and sometimes using none of them. That's right, sometimes we know the strategy, and it's allowed to succeed despite the audience knowing what it was, because the suspense and drama are coming from those who are in the actual fray.
@@shubham2076 I'm sure Code Geass has some problems with its strategy writing but those are really bad examples. The point of the video recordings is that Lelouch knew what they were going to say, which is why he was confident in using the plan. And "If *whatever* happened" is not a good argument. If Light didn't get his Death Note back, his plan would have gone totally wrong. If Deku had hit the bomb in MHA, his plan would have gone totally wrong. Yeah the plan would have gone wrong if things didn't turn out how lelouch anticipated it, but the same can be said about every plan ever. Also, the chess match is irrelevant. It was a 2 minute scene where 1 and a half minutes was showing everyone at the wedding and we were shown 5 moves. We saw no strategy in that game, only the last few moves. It was also Schnitzel that moved the king, not Lelouch. Using the chess match as a key strategic moment in the series is just wrong. Its only purpose was to foreshadow the strategy Schnitzel would use to beat Lelouch in the end. I will watch that video though because I'm curious if those are actually the best points made in it
The whole video I just kept thinking about Ocean's Eleven. The entire movie is just one giant elaborate plan, and it uses all four methods at one point or another. If you want to learn how to write strategy, WATCH THIS MOVIE.
Your second method, Timeline Strategic Explanation has another great use. It's amazing for when you also want to explain the rules of the game (literally or figuratively) that the characters are playing while they're playing it... because you love that game and you'd like to see it grow in popularity (Hikaru no Go), because your combat system has weird rules and they're going to need that background to appreciate later matches (Naruto, Fairy Tale, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure) or because you own that game and you'd like some money (Yu-Gi-Oh!, Card Fighter Vanguard, Duel Masters, and just SO MANY MORE)
Another option that follows alongside TSE is the Clashing Moment Strategies. They are displayed similarly, but they are noticeable by small shifting goals and plans that happens during or through small clashes. My example is Baby Steps. During most matches, every few hits of the ball a-group many small strategies on how they expect their opponent to react and what they are trying to do. The goal is almost always the same: better performance, score a point, win the match or set. Instead of a long overarching strategy, the final goal is obtained by winning small clashes which present each their small clash of strategies. I like it because it helps conveying deep strategies while allowing for fast changes and large variety, giving a larger layer of depth to "combat".
I have to be careful sometimes about making predictions or just calling out stuff out loud when watching with other people, I tend to irritate others when it’s obvious to me but not obvious to them. I guess that’s just how I enjoy content whether it’s watching or reading if it’s something I really like I think it’s awesome that I’ve guessed a plot point correct.
I personally like the method used by Kingdom. "Big Picture, Small Picture." You have the overall strategy between armies being played out, paralleled by the guys on the ground caught up in the battle. You can do a lot with that.
I would also like you to check out dungeon defence. Its a pretty amazing light novel. The main character uses basic common sense,insight and deduction to carry out a plan. He is is weakest throughout the series but when his plan comes together its amusing how he brings those powerful character underestimating him to their knees. His deduction is also based on the subtle details the audience mises which shows how smart he is.
Just as you were describing 'goal omission' I was thinking about that exact scene from Log Horizon. It really is the most stand out moment of Shiroe in season 1. Love it.
Log Horizon has a bunch of great "I have a plan" moments. A few other highlights would be Shiroe's quest to obtain the key to all of the auto-generated wealth in the world to prevent any player from owning and purchasing pieces of the game world, and the massive military network and battle strategy that the players of Akihabara managed to set up to deal with the Goblin King's armies. The latter example is pretty genius way of showing how resourceful MMO players can be when put to the test. I really hope we get more seasons of the show, since the world mechanics and politics are so fascinating to watch.
one thing that makes me absolutely love my hero academia is its attention to strategy that keeps the suspense of the action going, that there is a plan, it's coordinated well and you get to see other peoples abilities, you hope it will succeed but then again the villains can always have a sneak plan on their own, I feel like stuff like this is often missing from comics or superhero films that I wish would happen more often to make thing more realistic and not just have these people be basically line, we strong = nothing can go wrong
When Joseph Joestar runs away from a fight, don't chase after him. Next thing you'll know he'll lure you into a magma pit, or throw you into orbit with a Hamon-induced volcanic eruption.
Grade A video and, as a world builder and major fan of strategy games and anime, I am very grateful to have found such an eloquent and informative video on the application of such things in story design.
Add Youjo Senki to the list. Also, for anyone interested in explaining strategy, I highly recommend reading the Youjo Senki manga. In there you will find amazing panels and maps that offer crystal clear strategic explanations and perspectives.
Just look up "David Xanatos" on TV tropes. That'll cover just about everything you said and more. Case in point, no good strategist should be without the "xanatos gambit." In this strategy, you plan such that ALL forseeable actions, including failure, advance your machinations in some regard. Case in point- Xanatos once sent a robotic body duplicate (going by the alias "coyote," named for the native american trickster spirit,) to break some of his allies out of jail, and lead them to fight the gargoyles. They lost. However, he'd told ANOTHER prisoner that he had the hots for to not take the opportunity to break out. Since she had the chance to leave and didn't, that looked good to the parole board, who let her off early.
just started an anime channel where i plan on doing anime analysis. didnt think people around our size (i mean my channel is tiny compared to yours) were good enough or had the experience to make videos like this but good god after watching a few of your videos it looks like mines were made for children, love the work and ya earned a sub
Other than code geass I think one of the best strategy anime I've seen is aldnoah zero. Because the fights for the most part take place in space things like gravitation forces and prediction when the shot will hit that specific spot 12 hours ahead of time. Compensating for atmeshpheric reentry when firing from orbit and identifying and targeting weaknesses of the martians advanced mecha based on its strengths. When the hero correctly identifies a weakness that you as the audience just can't figure out it makes you just go wow
Your video's are amazing man. I love how you're drawing from all these series and games that I already love and manage to connect the dots within those several series. Truly, great analysis!
It might be nice to see the other examples you mentioned in he description. Maybe not as detailed, but with some explanation or purposes of such tropes.
+tagumonman55 I was talking more to Gemnist, where he says "no strategies being calculated in the span of two in-Universe seconds", despite the fact that that's what's happening the entire fight, especially since Kiritsugu uses Time Alter to talk in his head more in even less time. It may not be verbally stated, but Kiritsugu is basically doing what other shows do, just in head. It's just weird for him to note that as a unique point when it does the same thing other anime basically do.
One of my favourite examples of one of these categories is the film Logan Lucky. If you haven't seen it, spoilers: The film makes excellent use of goal omission, in fact it (kind of) does it twice. At first, Jimmy Logan after the heist is successful, returns the money he and the crew obtained. It's implied he had a change of heart through the way the film frames it but later on, we see that it's not the case. After the investigation of the robbery is over, one of the co-conspirators goes home and finds a sack of money in their yard, and it's revealed that during the heist, Logan effectively had a *second* heist going on at the same time to separate the money, sending bags to a separate location. He did this to discourage the investigation, both for the police and the company they just robbed (since they got a good chunk of the money back and insurance covered the rest). I'm oversimplifying it but it's a terrific sequence of events. Logan Lucky was already a good heist movie, but the reveal of the goal omission made it a great heist movie.
As soon as I saw Ikta Solork from Nejimaki Seirei Senki: Tenkyō no Alderamin I just had to watch this video. And yes you spot on when you say we 2nd season of Alderamin. I hope one it will happen. Thanks for great content.
A sad example over time, because they just couldn't keep thinking of clever plans, they substituted 'he's just faster and smarter'. It got old. It's a crappy war narrative where exactly one person on either side matters, and the rest of each army feels like they're just there for ballast.
An interesting series to look at for this would be maoyu, arch enemy and hero, lots of interesting tactics that are very unconventiaonal to your standard strategy anime
Legend of Galactic heroes did it best,For example one of battle consisted of 32 thousand ship against 112 thousand,smaller force gets position near star that emites particles and small corridor in asteroid field. And you get 40 minutes of constant flanking ambushes,retreates sending new waves,each few seconds you get scene from command deck in between short scenes of battle.
I wished the Alderamin on the Sky manga continued but after finishing volume 3 it was abruptly finished. Still, there are the light novels so there is the possibility of a season 2
I love this vid. You should do a top 10 or top 20 strategists in anime list. I need some recommendations! Even if it is just one scene of simple awesome...(like shikamaru during the chunin exam or Sanjis acts of sabotage in one piece). I do love Log Horizon and Alderan of the sky too. Smart characters are the best.
I rly liked Alderamin. I understand it wasnt perfect and it had its own problems, but I rly wish we could get a second season :( Thanks for bringing atention to it.
There's a comic called Gwenpool (which you should read - it's a gem!) where Gwen explains to her team before a battle that she has a plan but won't tell them it, telling them that "Not telling the audience the plan guarantees that it'll succeed."
For me strategy is about leading your opponent to make a mistake and capitalizing on every advantage you get. If in a story every strategy relies on predicting shit, like they have some kind of foresight or claivoyance, then generally I would call it bs.
What I hate most is when an anime over explains a plan to the point where it gets annoying because we, the audience, already have full knowledge of how brilliant the plan was by seeing it in action, yet the show things we are total idiots and need to recap it three times to make sure we really get it
All according to keikakuh
Translator's Note: Keikaku means saying Strategy (w/ plural) approximately 32 times.
Pécou Dracp
KIRA FTW!
Have some goddamn faith Replay!
Do you think the fan translator regrets this cringe?
Does god stay in heaven because he too is afraid of what he created?
Replay Value
Keikaku is actually closer to plan. Not strategy. However they are loosely interchangeable.
This is made very apparent in Eva where the term keikaku is overused and it’s meaning is plan in the context.
Basically, from my experience:
If the viewer knows the plan before it happens, then either (1) something is not going according to plan, or (2) there will be a sudden yet inevitable betrayal at the end.
If the viewer finds out the plan while it happens, it'll go all according to plan.
If the viewer finds out the plan *after* the plan happens, then that's the author signalling to the audience that the planner is supposed to be super-smart.
That is pretty inevitable, because if the viewer knows the plant and eveything goes according to plan, the just watch the same thing twice.
This is too true.
I've seen cases were the viewer knows the objective and the plan, at least partially, and the plan succeeds. The key is that the focus is no longer on the plan, but on it's execution and how others react to it.
Didn't they go over the Palace invasion plan in HxH 2011 before it was executed AND they went through the plan as it happened … and it succeeded anyway? I mean sure, Netero died but it was stated multiple times that one of them were probably going to die during the mission.
Yes of course there are exceptions to this but I think op has accurately called common tropes here
What did I tell you: you can't just mumble nonsense. No one's cutting away.
Oh, right. So here's the plan
*Cut*
Spencer Cox basically
Community is great like that
A variation on the last one:
The audience knows the strategies and goals of both parties, and the excitement comes from seeing how these strategies will interact when set into motion. And also how inevitably one or both sides will have to adapt.
+Kristian Bjerke Dalen -- I was thinking the same thing. "Dueling Generals" is sort of like "timeline strategic explanation" in many ways. The movie "The Patriot" is essentially a feature-length example -- Not only do we follow Ben Martin and his raiders as they repeatedly attack Cornwallis' supply lines, we see the power plays this causes between Cornwallis and Tavington on the British side as they try to stamp out the growing insurgency. This culminates in a hot mess of a final battle scene shot mostly from Cornwallis' perspective in order to let the cliches flow. However, most of the surprises are actually set up well in advance.
You also see "Dueling Generals" a lot during the World War 2 films of the 50s and 60s, as well as modern documentary shows. The key is dramatic irony -- rather than doling out information peacemeal, the writer goes overboard and gives two (or more) conflicting possible outcomes. Extra points if *both* sides make decisions based on incomplete information.
I'm honestly quite sick of armies appearing from nowhere at the last minute, equipment breakdowns and new powers as the plot demands. I much prefer plays on Checkov's armoury, MacGyvering and Heroic Sacrifice.
That last one might as well be called the "Sylvester McCoy."
During his tenure as The Doctor, most plots would revolve around him coming up with a great strategy, which the audience knows, and then having to run around fixing things that go wrong with it to make it work.
this is also in death note
basically the entirety of Death Note lol
Legend of the Galactic Heroes does this well. Sure, there are cases when the main character is in control of the operation the whole time and outclasses his opponent, but just as often, if not more, there are times when they have to face competent enemies who have their own plans and force the other to adapt, it's actually really entertaining.
Thank you for mentioning Shiroe buying the guild building.
(i initially clicked on this video hoping it'd come up XD)
great video altogether mate!
i will be checking out a lot more of your stuff!
Shocked that your hear
I did like log hirozion first season too
NUX!!!!
LORD NUXANOR!!!!!!!!!!
Omg it's senpai
I'm a writer... well trying to be, and this was easily the most education and engrossing video that you've made. Thank you.
During WWII
Italy: don't worry guys, I have a plan
Italy:**Italy has left the game**
There is another way that I think should be explored more: Lie to the audience. This is closely tied with 1 & 3. Set up a POV character that needs to be deceived. This could be an enemy commander or a spy. The enemy commander or spy pieces together the plan of the main character(s) and explains it in one way or another to the audience, or else has the plan presented to them (for example, a spy being told by the main character(s) what the plan is or their "crucial role" in the plan). Then, at the moment when the plan the audience was given is about to fall apart, reveal that it was deception and the plan was actually something else entirely. I've seen this done a few times. Actually, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure has done it quite a bit. The "Joestar secret technique" is built on this.
Bakugo: blasts a hole into a wall.
All might: don't do that.
Izuku: punches a hole through every fucking story in the building.
All Might is playing favorites here.
To be fair, All Might was trying to tell Bakugo to not blast a hole into Izuku.
It was because bakugo was supposed to be treating the place like his lair and was risking the bomb going off (if it were real), deku specifically aimed for the area that wouldn't hit the bomb, as was still lectured for being reckless
Deku still lost points tho
Though I think it would certainly get old if used frequently, my favorite is the style where you don't necessarily even know a plan is happening, you see events portrayed which seem unimportant, or important but unclear how, and then later it's revealed how they play into the character's goals. I suppose a somewhat adequate (although of the 'important but unclear how' variant) would be Hohenheim depositing various souls around the country throughout the middle parts of Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood.
An example of the 'unimportant' might be a character making a call to an equipment rental company, inquiring about renting some construction machinery, and then there's a scene transition, and that scene is forgotten/put to the back of your mind until later on when the main character and his buddies are fighting the villains on a rooftop, and then the building starts collapsing as a wrecking-ball smashes into it, causing the main character and his buddies to adapt to the sudden destruction and change of the playing field.
Yesss, same!!!
One more type of strategy trope that you didn't include I call the dilemma strategy, in this variety the plan is explained in full but it all hinges on one element of the plan that is either partially or fully outside the strategist's control or involves a significant moral dilemma. Since both the audience and strategist are aware of this key element the suspense and character development comes from what the strategist is willing to do or sacrifice to influence this one element of uncertainty towards his favor. An excellent example of this comes from the movie Red Cliff: the entire final battle hinges on the winds changing direction but when they realize that the winds aren't going to change in time the characters face numerous moral and personal decisions in order to delay the battle until the winds change.
Another strategy trope the video maker didn't include is when the strategist explains his plan to the audience in advance and then every thing happens according to plan. This is what happens when the strategy is so good (or the person he is strategising against is so inept) that not even revealing it to the public can foil it!
Take Three Kingdoms, for example, when Cao Cao gets an idea to BUILD AN ICE FORTRESS against Ma Chao, so he does. And then Ma Chao's arrows are ineffective against Cao Cao's fortress!
Canaris4 very true, however that does kind of negate the suspense aspect of the plot and while the video maker didn't explicitly state that to be a limiting factor, all his other trope examples dealt with how suspense is maintained in the strategy genre so I took that to be an implicit conditional for types of strategy tropes.
I still to this day wish Alderamin would get a second season. I'm happy to see it even mentioned in this great video!
Yu Takeda so sad so sad.Hey atleast legend of the galctic heroes has a remake now.
Alderamin was alright. I wouldn’t mind a second season.
I couldn't get into Alderamin because its main character commits a war crime in the first episode (they pretend to surrender and then kill the off-guard soldiers, which is war crime under the Geneva Conventions called perfidy). Does it get any better or do they just continually engage in trash strategies like that?
Intranet no more trash strategies but that’s how war has always worked.
My problem was how the show was trying to make him a sympathetic good guy main character (or at least a generic good guy white knight underneath his exterior). When your main character commits a war crime and surrender-deceptions used by WW2 era Japanese fascists in the first episode, then that portrayal kinda falls apart. I wouldn't mind if they had straight up made him more of a bad guy, a Machiavellian character, or an actual don't-give-a-damn character in the beginning as that would be far more fitting.
Suprised you never mentioned the Genthru fight in Hunter X Hunter. It's a serise of misdirections played at the audience after we find out that they have formed a plan.
It constantly makes us question what the plan actually is. Like the audience has to question why Gon, the weakest of the 3 is going to face down the leader of the Bombers head to head.
But each step the show illustrates how it is going to plan despite there not seeming to be one.
Gon anticipates Genthrus attacks and has countermeasures planned.
The best subversion comes when Gon reveals that he has actually been working off of his own plan and not the one the group developed, then he relents and goes along with the groups plan after his attempt fails.
This says a ton about Gons charecter while making you think the situation has gone off the rails and is hopeless. You think the plan has failed only to realize that the real plan hasn't even been attempted yet.
oof
I guess it just falls into the 5% of tactics that are well written and don't fit in those 4 categories.
i like the adaptive on-the-spot strategies of the invasion finale. each piece starts out with an intricate initial gameplan and their desired success states, which is justified and useful here because they have to split off and improvise, and the only way to stay coordinated is to assume everyone else is trying to stick to the plan, too. a character who can adapt and overcome is stronger than one who can only strategize, and is more fit for a chaotic world that doesnt act like a chessboard. thats what i like about hxh strats, its organic as heck
@Excelsior hxh constantly states that power levels depends on matchups, flexibility and raw nen. gons not a hardened veteran hunter or a career assassin, he's just gon, with a single very powerful attack that of course can burn killuas hands because he's standing there holding the darned thing
@Excelsior if you think back to killua drawing the line of their child prodigy power levels vs an actual adult like hisokas, then on the kilometer scale they're pretty close in level, but on the cm scale killua takes the lead
Surprised that JoJo's Bizarre Adventure wasn't mentioned, which I believe has some of the most consistently amazing and thought-out strategic battles since Hunter x Hunter.
OneGamer2EnvyThemAll JoJos is older than HxH.
I know, but the anime isn't.
Then why mention it?
I didn't mean to date one over the other, my message was that they both had good strategic battles, regardless of how it was worded.
There is only one plan, try everything while fighting the enemy, if nothing works run away, repeat, the best plan ever.
What about option 4. Pull a bunch of random deus ex mechena plot twists outta your ass then have your “strategist” claim it was all part of their plan.
Examples lex Luther in Batman v Superman, Zemo in captain America civil war, and Aizen from bleach after his arc went on way to long.
I once saw a 4chan post on good vs bad writing of smart characters. Here's some copypasta.
"Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men is a smartly written smart character. When Chigurh kills a hotel room full of three people he books to room next door so he can examine it, finding which walls he can shoot through, where the light switch is, what sort of cover is there etc. This is a smart thing to do because Chigurh is a smart person who is written by another smart person who understands how smart people think.
Were Sherlock Holmes to kill a hotel room full of three people. He'd enter using a secret door in the hotel that he read about in a book ten years ago. He'd throw peanuts at one guy causing him to go into anaphylactic shock, as he had deduced from a dartboard with a picture of George Washington carver on it pinned to the wall that the man had a severe peanut allergy. The second man would then kill himself just according to plan as Sherlock had earlier deduced that him and the first man were homosexual lovers who couldn't live without eachother due to a faint scent of penis on each man's breath and a slight dilation of their pupils whenever they looked at each other. As for the third man, why Sherlock doesn't kill him at all. The third man removes his sunglasses and wig to reveal he actually WAS Sherlock the entire time. But Sherlock just entered through the Secret door and killed two people, how can there be two of him? The first Sherlock removes his mask to reveal he's actually Moriarty attempting to frame Sherlock for two murders. Sherlock however anticipated this, the two dead men stand up, they're undercover police officers, it was all a ruse. "But Sherlock!" Moriarty cries "That police officer blew his own head off, look at it, there's skull fragments on the wall, how is he fine now? How did you fake that?". Sherlock just winks at the screen, the end.
This is retarded because Sherlock is a smart person written by a stupid person to whom smart people are indistinguishable from wizards. "
the Sherlock thing was pretty funny. Another good example I saw was from a youtube video tearing apart the latest pirates of the Caribbean movie for turning jack sparrow into a lucky idiot. Then he gave a number of scenarios form the previous movies that demonstrated he was fairly mart and cunning, but used the random idiot thing as a cover.
For instance when ever he would be brought into a certain death scenario, the first thing he would do is start rambling like and idiot and fiddling with everything in sight. While he's stalling for time, the camera shows him noting all the important variables in the room, and anything he touches is repositioned to play to his advantage. When it came time for his escape it was less random coincidence and more of an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine that he intentionally set up himself.
+kyriss12, do you know what video it was? It sounds pretty interesting!
Yoyo Mizuzawa
Dead men tell no tales-Imposter jack sparrow.
th-cam.com/video/u6wBMWFh7TM/w-d-xo.html
"I... had... a PLAN!" ~Dutch van der Linde-sama.
I might have to watch some Alderamin. I feel like another particularly strong example of strategic writing is the Chimera Ant arc of Hunter x Hunter, particularly the climax.
Josh M its a great show but doesnt end and wont end because its not getting a second season
Ah, bugger.
chimera ant arc didn't have much strategy.
@Excelsior sperating the king from his royal guards is a strategy .
Knuckle and morel vs yopi
Morel vs pouf
Knuckle and shoot vs youpi
Killua vs pouf
Netero vs meruem
.
That was the climax without mentioning the tons of FiGhTs before the climax
Gon vs two ant soldiers
Killua vs the ant army
Killua vs the fish brothers
Kite , gon , killua vs the ant army
Gon vs knuckle
Basically every fight in hxh require a strategy in it , the whole show is based of Characters strategizing in literally everything , it's actually stupid how the video mentioned MHA the most bland shonen anime with the most basic shallow planing ever and not mentioning hxh
@Excelsior we're not talking about the complexity of strategy here ( altho hxh had alot of complicated fights I mean hisoka vs chrollo is just on another level ) you said you don't recall alot of strategy and I listed those many fights to offend that
.
Strategy is not only used in fights , when you to achieve a goal in your life it could be anything
Strategy is used mainly now days in economics and politics not only war
.
Btw the video has a very shallow understanding of what strategy is
So lemme tell you what's the main principals of strategy are :
1) address the goal
2) search for data
3) analyze these data
4) form a plan
5) making a decision
Remember when gon and killua got back to wheel island to search for more information about ging ? Those are the first two steps
They knew about the box and learned greed island but they noticed how stupidly expensive this game is / step 3
Then they tried to gain more money to buy the game and to do that they decided to go to Yorknew city auction to buy and sell items / step 4 and 5
This is how strategy works , another examples are : when kurapika decided to work for nustrad family to track the phantom troupe
Or when the spiders decided to stay to face kurapika
Or when kite knew the chimera ant queen place located in NGL
Or when the troupe wanted to find the Nen exscorsist
And alot more don't get me start with the recent arc of the manga Characters in hxh always strategize before they move in the world or to achieve something , even hisoka
If hxh is not one of the best examples of strategy in storytelling then what's strategy anymore
I think this might be my favorite video from you yet. It applies to many anime and is a topic I don't think I ever seen discuss. Which is interesting cause it a topic that can help in understanding why certain battle or tactical scene work or don't work. Heck this video made me look back on so many shows like ACCA and Izetta. Speaking of mega point for having clips from ACCA and I definitely check out the show you recommended. I'm always on the watch for good animes.
Have you seen Rokka no Yuusha? It goes all over the way with strategy in a good scence, with the slowest but nice pacing of one LN for the whole season.
This is a very anime overview of strategic writing, as it's very grounded in both visual media, and a Japanese understanding of military strategy.
Breaking these conventions by tying the viewers knowledge to a specific POV, or depicting a canny strategist who accounts for potential setbacks can help keep your writing fresh an unpredictable.
God you are cranking out these masterpieces.
Have you watched/read World Trigger? It's definitely the most tactically satisfying story I've seen in a long time. It takes a while to really come into its own but you'll see multiple strategies playing out against each other at the same time, with plans going off the rail and characters being forced to improvise. I love the 3-sided battles too because each team has more than one group of opponents to consider
I was really impressed with the tactic explanation in Attack on Titan season 1 during the Female Titan arc. That made Erwin my favorite character in the show
The scouting formation and the smoke signals remain seriously some of the coolest things I've ever seen in anime.
You get MAJOR points for being the only youtuber I've seen talk about Aderamin. It was one of my favorites for that season, and I'm so sad that it's probably just an advertisement anime to sell the light novels...
Well, that's just how MadHouse works. It would have to be popular beyond belief to be awarded a second season.
Then again, anime by Madhouse is just my way of checking out which light novels would be cool to read.
Agreed! At least Overlord keeps getting more seasons/cours from Madhouse. It's fairly strategic, and seems to be getting more complex as the show goes on (thankfully).
Ah yes, overlord, one of the light novels I went out to read :P
I do recommend reading them, as the strategy goes more in-depth over there.
Same applies for NGNL :P
You talked about 2 of my favorite shows, Log Horizon and Code Geass, then mentioned another show I haven't seen yet as an underappreciated jem. Now I'm excited, have found 2 new shows to watch, and a new TH-cam channel.
I'm so glad you mentioned alderamin on the sky. It is one of my favorite and underrated anime ever. Ikta came across as a jerk sometimes, but he was an amazing strategist, and did whatever it took to guarantee victory. I also love his line "heroes die from overwork." With his lazy personality, it clearly defines that he doesn't see himself as a hero, and the audience shouldn't either. This makes it easier to see him pulling off some of the underhanded tactics he used. He isn't righteous, and his strategies show that.
Great vid! Watching this, it occurs to me that one of my favorite TV moments was kind of a cross between types 1 and 3... and something else, as the viewer didn't even KNOW that there WAS a plan! The moment was on Star Trek: The Next Generation, in the episode "The Defector". The crew takes aboard an Romulan admiral (Jarok) who wants to prevent a war, but is not forthcoming with details. All through the episode as the crew tries to figure out if this guy is on the level, there's one or two throw-away lines where Captain Picard has Mr. Worf (his Klingon security officer) take care of something off-screen.
Finally, Jarok comes clean and takes the Enterprise to a part of space where he'd seen a massive invasion force being assembled. But there's nothing there. As they're about to leave, they get ambushed by a pair of Romulan Warbirds (just one being more than match for the Enterprise). The Romulan commander applauds Jarok for falling for the the ploy, and demands the Enterprise's surrender, but Picard is oddly calm about the situation. We find out why when he signals Lt. Worf, who summons the 3 or 4 cloaked Klingon warships that had been escorting the Enterprise the entire time, forcing the Romulans to withdraw with their tails between their legs.
This easily could have been a dues-ex machina, but the little cut-aways and the crew's un-surprised reaction to the ambush makes you realize they knew they were walking into a trap the entire time, and prepared accordingly.
Videos like these enable me to convince myself watching all this anime isn’t completely useless
I’ve had trouble coming up with strategy scenes and such. I’m quite happy I took the time to watch this. Informative and useful, thank you and bravo.
One unmentioned (and uncommon) way to build tension is to explain multiple contradictory plans (either from opposing sides or from people working together badly) and deriving tension from the uncertain ways these plans interact.
I like the way they mixed it in Ocean's 11. First you get an overview, but it's not a plan, yet -- it's a list of obstacles they must overcome to rob the casino. So you know what, but not how. Then they show the preparation and training phase, but only selected bits, like the replica of the vault. You get an incomplete idea of how. Then something happens and the entire plan is in jeopardy. They find a an alternative way and keep going. The plan is set in motion, things work just fine. Then a bunch of stuff seems to go sideways, but is later revealed to be part of the plan. Those missing bits make all the difference and you are still as surprised as the guy being robbed -- even though you were there from the start.
As much as I love Legend of Galactic Heroes, I gotta say...A good chunk of the strategies and plans Reinhard and Yang make work usually because the enemy they’re facing is incompetent.
Great video! I got hyped for this yesterday when I saw Ikta Solork on the thumbnail. You did a good job succinctly defining and giving an example of each section, as usual. Hopefully you can end up making a full video on Alderamin in the future. I agree that it's a tad overlooked, though I'm sad that we will probably not get another season (no evidence of this, just my predilection).
I'd have to say some of my favourites comes from Initial D.
More often than not, a lot of racing based media becomes a power struggle, competition of skill or emotional conflict.
But Initial D adds a extra layer to it by having characters plan ahead and on the fly to pinpoint certain flaws, strenghts, habits and styles of both the car and the driver.
My favorite example being the race between Keisuke's FD3S and Kobayakawa's Lancer Evolution VII.
I feel like the palace invasion part of the Chimera Ant arc in Hunter x Hunter has all 4 styles wrapped into this huge, 30 episodes long "battle".
Some parts of the plan are only explained post-action, some are being narrated with the action, a few key details about character intentions get omitted, but most importantly, almost everything goes wrong within the first second of the plan's execution - Youpi unexpectedly sitting on the staircase, not to mention a bunch of other instances where the ants completely shatter our expectations.
It's probably a popular example in the comments, but I can't help mentioning it..
1 The Master of Ragnarok gives a modern boy with a cell phone centuries worth of tech and strategies to overcome bronze age opponents. But the they fell apart in the last few episodes, requiring a suspenseful adaptive gamble.
2 Lord Marksman and Vanadis episodes often gave good strategic exposition between battles.
Im a simple man i see yang wenli i click
This is a fantastic analysis and really illuminates how to write what could be the most boring part of a story into being the most intense
I believe there is a 4th way a narrative may convey strategy:
When the viewpoint of the plan is limited, and everyone is led on to believe the plan was one thing, only to be something else. Everyone including the viewers and even the main characters. The reason why I would say this is different from the other ways of conveying strategy, is because of the intent by the writers and creators to lead the audiences by the nose by a seemingly obvious plan, only to reveal a much deeper purpose.
In Attack on Titan, the character Erwin is presented as a genius strategist. When the Female Titan Arc began in the show, the viewers and manga readers were presented what they "thought" was a plan. A survey outside the walls. However, that "plan" seemingly goes wrong to the readers and viewers when the Female Titan arrives and attempts to capture Eren.
Yet, it turns out that Erwin's original purpose was to capture the traitor in their midst by giving them an opportunity, it being the survey. The viewers are misled at first, and so are even the main characters. Yet looking back on the previous episodes, as well as through flashbacks, there were several signs pointing to Erwin's plan and thinking, which the main characters soon figure out during the operation through an explanation by Armin.
This plan and part of the show falls into this category I believe. By presenting to the audience and main characters a fake plan, only for them to end up being betrayed "seemingly by surprise", only to show that the entire purpose was different than stated, with the "traitor" trope acting as a red herring to a bigger reveal. This is slightly overshadowed by Armin explaining the secret plan near the end of it, but the revealation made by Armin at that point is made to shock the audience as well as the main characters, which only gives more credit to Erwin and his genius.
GoT season 3 episode 9 titled the “Red Wedding” had the best fall off the rails strategy ever. The show runners completely laid out the goals that protagonist wanted to achieve leading up to episode 9. Explaining in detail the outcome that was supposed to happen. They even gave the protagonist a small victory indicating he was, well on his way to victory and then episode 9 when everything falls apart. The audience is left jaws on the floor wondering what the hell happened. What makes this episode even better is in the next episode the shower runners restate an off hand comment made by the antagonist about the protagonist that audience was simply made to brush off as cocky ramblings of a old man who is close to defeat.
My Hero does the "don't tell,just do" the strategy thing BEFORE your example too, when Izuku hits the ball with all his power concentrated into his finger. Even though the plan was pretty obvious, it sets up how the series will handle strategies like this in the future, and showed us to expect turn around tactics like this from Izuku.
One method that is rarely seen. Is the method of no plan survives first combat. Where the plan changes mid mission because of unforeseen circumstances. Sometimes multiple times in the same mission. Which is amazing when done well. Unfortunately it's not often done at all.
10:46 I think my favorite example of this happens in one of the later arcs of Hunter x Hunter. A plan goes off the rails on both sides of the conflict and we get a great insight into how they deal with the new situations. It made me love basically every character involved so much more and I was on the edge of my seat for the entire arc
Meanwhile Code Geass does all four of these
Armando Cordero
Incorrectly.
Nnnnno? No it doesn't.
Code Geass does play mix and match with some of these tropes, sometimes using more than one at once, sometimes using tropes that aren't even on this list, and sometimes using none of them.
That's right, sometimes we know the strategy, and it's allowed to succeed despite the audience knowing what it was, because the suspense and drama are coming from those who are in the actual fray.
Vexed An4l Reprobate for example?
Wrooooong
Legend of the galactic heroes (1988) did them better
@@shubham2076 I'm sure Code Geass has some problems with its strategy writing but those are really bad examples. The point of the video recordings is that Lelouch knew what they were going to say, which is why he was confident in using the plan. And "If *whatever* happened" is not a good argument. If Light didn't get his Death Note back, his plan would have gone totally wrong. If Deku had hit the bomb in MHA, his plan would have gone totally wrong. Yeah the plan would have gone wrong if things didn't turn out how lelouch anticipated it, but the same can be said about every plan ever. Also, the chess match is irrelevant. It was a 2 minute scene where 1 and a half minutes was showing everyone at the wedding and we were shown 5 moves. We saw no strategy in that game, only the last few moves. It was also Schnitzel that moved the king, not Lelouch. Using the chess match as a key strategic moment in the series is just wrong. Its only purpose was to foreshadow the strategy Schnitzel would use to beat Lelouch in the end. I will watch that video though because I'm curious if those are actually the best points made in it
The whole video I just kept thinking about Ocean's Eleven. The entire movie is just one giant elaborate plan, and it uses all four methods at one point or another. If you want to learn how to write strategy, WATCH THIS MOVIE.
Your second method, Timeline Strategic Explanation has another great use. It's amazing for when you also want to explain the rules of the game (literally or figuratively) that the characters are playing while they're playing it... because you love that game and you'd like to see it grow in popularity (Hikaru no Go), because your combat system has weird rules and they're going to need that background to appreciate later matches (Naruto, Fairy Tale, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure) or because you own that game and you'd like some money (Yu-Gi-Oh!, Card Fighter Vanguard, Duel Masters, and just SO MANY MORE)
I love that you love Code Geass!!! Would LOVE to see your thoughts/takes on various subjects regarding the show sometime!!!
He already covered how it has one of the most brilliant strategy and representation in this aspect.
Just check a his analysis pieces section.
Another option that follows alongside TSE is the Clashing Moment Strategies. They are displayed similarly, but they are noticeable by small shifting goals and plans that happens during or through small clashes.
My example is Baby Steps. During most matches, every few hits of the ball a-group many small strategies on how they expect their opponent to react and what they are trying to do. The goal is almost always the same: better performance, score a point, win the match or set. Instead of a long overarching strategy, the final goal is obtained by winning small clashes which present each their small clash of strategies.
I like it because it helps conveying deep strategies while allowing for fast changes and large variety, giving a larger layer of depth to "combat".
I have to be careful sometimes about making predictions or just calling out stuff out loud when watching with other people, I tend to irritate others when it’s obvious to me but not obvious to them. I guess that’s just how I enjoy content whether it’s watching or reading if it’s something I really like I think it’s awesome that I’ve guessed a plot point correct.
I personally like the method used by Kingdom. "Big Picture, Small Picture." You have the overall strategy between armies being played out, paralleled by the guys on the ground caught up in the battle. You can do a lot with that.
I would also like you to check out dungeon defence. Its a pretty amazing light novel. The main character uses basic common sense,insight and deduction to carry out a plan. He is is weakest throughout the series but when his plan comes together its amusing how he brings those powerful character underestimating him to their knees. His deduction is also based on the subtle details the audience mises which shows how smart he is.
I like Alderamin in the Sky and think it deserves more attention. I don't think I've seen anyone else on youtube talk about it.
"strategy" in lelouch: make your opponent absolute idiot
All according to plan
Just as you were describing 'goal omission' I was thinking about that exact scene from Log Horizon. It really is the most stand out moment of Shiroe in season 1. Love it.
Log Horizon has a bunch of great "I have a plan" moments. A few other highlights would be Shiroe's quest to obtain the key to all of the auto-generated wealth in the world to prevent any player from owning and purchasing pieces of the game world, and the massive military network and battle strategy that the players of Akihabara managed to set up to deal with the Goblin King's armies. The latter example is pretty genius way of showing how resourceful MMO players can be when put to the test.
I really hope we get more seasons of the show, since the world mechanics and politics are so fascinating to watch.
Dude I fucking loved Alderaman of the Sky
one thing that makes me absolutely love my hero academia is its attention to strategy that keeps the suspense of the action going, that there is a plan, it's coordinated well and you get to see other peoples abilities, you hope it will succeed but then again the villains can always have a sneak plan on their own, I feel like stuff like this is often missing from comics or superhero films that I wish would happen more often to make thing more realistic and not just have these people be basically line, we strong = nothing can go wrong
When Joseph Joestar runs away from a fight, don't chase after him. Next thing you'll know he'll lure you into a magma pit, or throw you into orbit with a Hamon-induced volcanic eruption.
Grade A video and, as a world builder and major fan of strategy games and anime, I am very grateful to have found such an eloquent and informative video on the application of such things in story design.
Happy that you mentioned my hero academia here
Add Youjo Senki to the list. Also, for anyone interested in explaining strategy, I highly recommend reading the Youjo Senki manga. In there you will find amazing panels and maps that offer crystal clear strategic explanations and perspectives.
I'm trying to think of something that uses all four, and I think the fight of Gon vs Genthru in Hunter x Hunter qualifies.
mmh.. did we know that the goal was to actually beat Genthru?
Renard Dubois
Well, yes ?
Wasn't the goal to stop Genthru ? I think it was a multi-goal: revenge, stopping he and his group, getting cards, etc.
Love the use of code geass since strategies are a BIG part of how the story progresses
Just look up "David Xanatos" on TV tropes.
That'll cover just about everything you said and more.
Case in point, no good strategist should be without the "xanatos gambit."
In this strategy, you plan such that ALL forseeable actions, including failure, advance your machinations in some regard.
Case in point- Xanatos once sent a robotic body duplicate (going by the alias "coyote," named for the native american trickster spirit,) to break some of his allies out of jail, and lead them to fight the gargoyles.
They lost.
However, he'd told ANOTHER prisoner that he had the hots for to not take the opportunity to break out. Since she had the chance to leave and didn't, that looked good to the parole board, who let her off early.
just started an anime channel where i plan on doing anime analysis. didnt think people around our size (i mean my channel is tiny compared to yours) were good enough or had the experience to make videos like this but good god after watching a few of your videos it looks like mines were made for children, love the work and ya earned a sub
I'm just really glad to have finally found someone else who likes and appreciates Alderamin like I do lol
An underrated series that employs a ton of strategy is World Trigger. I really recommend that you check it out!
Other than code geass I think one of the best strategy anime I've seen is aldnoah zero. Because the fights for the most part take place in space things like gravitation forces and prediction when the shot will hit that specific spot 12 hours ahead of time. Compensating for atmeshpheric reentry when firing from orbit and identifying and targeting weaknesses of the martians advanced mecha based on its strengths. When the hero correctly identifies a weakness that you as the audience just can't figure out it makes you just go wow
high quality A Team reference at the end there
I love Strategy/Tactical in Movies or TV shows. I sure do hope to learn a bit from it lol
Your video's are amazing man. I love how you're drawing from all these series and games that I already love and manage to connect the dots within those several series. Truly, great analysis!
It might be nice to see the other examples you mentioned in he description. Maybe not as detailed, but with some explanation or purposes of such tropes.
A bit of a quiet vid, but I dig it! I was suggested here but glad I was
Fate/Zero is the only anime I’ve seen to use strategic fights perfectly. No strategies being calculated in the span of two in-Universe seconds.
Gemnist Shikamaru >>> Fate strategy
Gemnist the fact that there is like... no “my friends did what I planned they would do” and it is more manipulative strategy adds to it
Isn't that more or less what Kiritsugu does fighting Kirei?
Manuel Mateo Thats what I’m reffering to, that’s why I love their fight. Just silent battle between two men, and their thought process
+tagumonman55 I was talking more to Gemnist, where he says "no strategies being calculated in the span of two in-Universe seconds", despite the fact that that's what's happening the entire fight, especially since Kiritsugu uses Time Alter to talk in his head more in even less time. It may not be verbally stated, but Kiritsugu is basically doing what other shows do, just in head. It's just weird for him to note that as a unique point when it does the same thing other anime basically do.
Glad your talking about my hero academia here
One of my favourite examples of one of these categories is the film Logan Lucky. If you haven't seen it, spoilers:
The film makes excellent use of goal omission, in fact it (kind of) does it twice. At first, Jimmy Logan after the heist is successful, returns the money he and the crew obtained. It's implied he had a change of heart through the way the film frames it but later on, we see that it's not the case. After the investigation of the robbery is over, one of the co-conspirators goes home and finds a sack of money in their yard, and it's revealed that during the heist, Logan effectively had a *second* heist going on at the same time to separate the money, sending bags to a separate location. He did this to discourage the investigation, both for the police and the company they just robbed (since they got a good chunk of the money back and insurance covered the rest).
I'm oversimplifying it but it's a terrific sequence of events. Logan Lucky was already a good heist movie, but the reveal of the goal omission made it a great heist movie.
"I love it when a plan comes together." *eats a cigar*
As soon as I saw Ikta Solork from Nejimaki Seirei Senki: Tenkyō no Alderamin I just had to watch this video. And yes you spot on when you say we 2nd season of Alderamin. I hope one it will happen. Thanks for great content.
I enjoyed the first season of Aldnoah.Zero for the strategic elements as well.
A sad example over time, because they just couldn't keep thinking of clever plans, they substituted 'he's just faster and smarter'. It got old. It's a crappy war narrative where exactly one person on either side matters, and the rest of each army feels like they're just there for ballast.
An interesting series to look at for this would be maoyu, arch enemy and hero, lots of interesting tactics that are very unconventiaonal to your standard strategy anime
Alderamin is super underrated. Thanks for talking about it!
I love it when a plan comes together!
Legend of Galactic heroes did it best,For example one of battle consisted of 32 thousand ship against 112 thousand,smaller force gets position near star that emites particles and small corridor in asteroid field. And you get 40 minutes of constant flanking ambushes,retreates sending new waves,each few seconds you get scene from command deck in between short scenes of battle.
This is why oceans 11 is my favorite movie of all time
I wished the Alderamin on the Sky manga continued but after finishing volume 3 it was abruptly finished. Still, there are the light novels so there is the possibility of a season 2
Man I loved Acca and Alderamin... I'm still hoping for a second season for both of them...
guess AOT does a mixture of all of that-
inclining mostly on the latter 2 but with even unpredictable of the first two
Yang Wen Li & Lelouch is few of my favorite anime Strategist
"I have a plan". Arthur: not a again
I love this vid. You should do a top 10 or top 20 strategists in anime list. I need some recommendations! Even if it is just one scene of simple awesome...(like shikamaru during the chunin exam or Sanjis acts of sabotage in one piece). I do love Log Horizon and Alderan of the sky too. Smart characters are the best.
Food Wars music? Gotcha there
I rly liked Alderamin. I understand it wasnt perfect and it had its own problems, but I rly wish we could get a second season :( Thanks for bringing atention to it.
Gotta admit, I was hoping you'd talk about the strategies in Jojo's Bizzare Adventure
There's a comic called Gwenpool (which you should read - it's a gem!) where Gwen explains to her team before a battle that she has a plan but won't tell them it, telling them that "Not telling the audience the plan guarantees that it'll succeed."
For me strategy is about leading your opponent to make a mistake and capitalizing on every advantage you get. If in a story every strategy relies on predicting shit, like they have some kind of foresight or claivoyance, then generally I would call it bs.
liked your A-Team reference at the end.
What I hate most is when an anime over explains a plan to the point where it gets annoying because we, the audience, already have full knowledge of how brilliant the plan was by seeing it in action, yet the show things we are total idiots and need to recap it three times to make sure we really get it
Actually, I think that when I was watching log horizon I anticipated the buying of the guild building.
"I had a goddamn *P L A N!"*
God damn it I want more Alderamin it gave me everything I ever wanted from it