Envisioning Aliens: Is the Kardashev Scale Obsolete?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ส.ค. 2023
- An exploration of whether the venerable Kardashev scale is obsolete. Used since 1965 to envision both the far human future and alien civilizations, the scale is a product of its times and may be superseded by one of several alternative methods of classifying futurism and technological alien life.
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New richter scale: 1 = cant feel it, 2 = can feel it, 3 = blows the Earth apart in a million directions at half the speed of light.
Exactly haha
great description of Kardeshev.
Exactly
Yup. The amount of energy for a k3 is just dumb. Can we just try to keep it to what could humans accomplish in another 10,000 years of sentient technological evolution please.
Lol this was funny as hell
Bro you are KILLING IT LATELY
John Michael GODier
Brooooooo , im a slave to trends
Let’s goooo
Michael the murderous
@@beam5655GOD-Tier 😅
3 videos in less than a week? What a time to be alive !
2 minute papers
must be the alien technology
In the context of everything going on in the world right now, seriously.
I've thought about this a lot. Surrounding a star with machinery just seems like such a brutish way to generate energy.
How would an alien build and get all the materials? Stars are huge
That's why dark energy is is the ultimate battery ⚡⚡⚡
@@LieMac Thats why they had to modify it to a dyson swarm and not a sphere. Ultimately theres no reason to not believe that there could be way of generating matter in a fairly easy way. Think of how things like expanding foam work
It's a terrible idea, in reality. Extremely low quality, and deeply flawed on many levels. Dumber than a Hyperloop, even!
Because imagining that advanced civilisations would rely on solar power is flat out wrong. It's functionally the same as people in 1800 thinking that in the year 10,000 everything will run on coal. Or whale oil.
Here's the rule about Dyson Spheres: IF YOU CAN BUILD A DYSON SPHERE, YOU DON'T NEED A DYSON SPHERE.
Damn so probably not gonna steam punk the galaxy then. There was this sci Fi writer it's really old in his books Diesel and coal powered space ships dominated space lol
This video came out 23 minutes ago with 23, now 24 comments. I feel very blessed to be one of the first in conversations like these. We're in incredible times in science and putting heads together is key in furthering our knowledge and gaining new breakthroughs! Thank you, JMG and everyone here for being apart of some amazing discussions and helping me to learn and gain new insights in my favorite scientific topics, different research and discoveries! 🙏❤
You have really been helping me through a tough time in life here lately, thank you for all that you do, these videos are great.
This channel did the same for me. It’s awesome when JMG has time to upload a lot, the last few days have been so great. We know how hard he works on content and we appreciate it. But yea, him and Anton really did get me through tough times, when I got that next notification I knew I was a day closer to feeling better, and could escape with some content I love for a bit. Hang in there. Things always work out.
samme brother 🙏
Hope everything pans out for you and your family Lofi. ❤
You are not the only one!
"You have really been helping me through a tough time in life here lately"
Yeah bro, me too. Whenever I listen to JMG's relaxing voice while lying down in my bed, all of my problems disappear for a few minutes.
It's all very much influenced by the time we live in. In Kardashev's time it was all about energy, but now someone may make a scale based on how much information is processed. What's next, a scale based on how many (and the types of) A.I.s a civilization is running?
Hmm maybe. A super intelligent AI that is light-years away is probably not very useful though :)
My point was only that the way we think about more advanced civilizations is very much influenced by how "advanced" we currently are.
That is also the message of the video I guess :).
How many universes? Something even more exotic? Definitely based on the time we live in.
Information might be a good start. It is a fundamental unit in the universe. At least that we know of for now.
> What's next, a scale based on how many (and the types of) A.I.s a civilization is running?
This is basically the idea in Orion's Arm.
John, it’s great that you’re pumping out so much incredible content lately. I just hope it’s sustainable and you’re getting your rest! I’d hate to see one of my favourite creators burning out. Take care of yourself my man - hope you’re getting as much rest as your videos give me.
I'm good! I just have a lot of ideas and material to work with right now. That's usually the bottleneck because otherwise I really enjoy making videos. I'd do it every day if I had the material and was able keep up the quality bar. Right now, I can do it every couple of days, and that's probably going to last through the end of the year, but when good topics become scarce then it will slow back down.
@@JohnMichaelGodier don't touch them the spookiest ones, they're for the Spooky October's season! :D
@@JohnMichaelGodiercan you please do a video on quantum mechanics and finding a unified theory? I’m curious on your thoughts on this!🥺🥺🥺
Very well said. Remember, no one gives us permission to exercise self care. That only comes from within oneself. 👍
@@JohnMichaelGodier God I love this comment
John says he has a Lotta material to work on right now. I am tuning the F IN
Great stuff! I think the Kardashev scale never was a realistic model for civilization, but as you say more of a thought experiment. ☄🌌🔭
Thank you! My thoughts exactly
Non stop fire lately!
Fun fact there's a metal band called @kardashev and their first two albums are fully based on a sci-fi story using the scale with humanity at a tier 2 civilization. The album Exipio is a masterpiece with humanity primarily living in dyson spheres being given a progress block and the final song being out ascension to tier 3. They invented a genre called Death Gaze and the atmosphere is incredible.
There's your music recommendation for the day ;)
In terms of cosmic metal I'm more of a Darkspace or Limbonic Art guy but I'll check them out.
*Edit within 10 minutes of original comment* -- okay, yeah, that's the first time someone recommended something this good in a comments section. Nice 👍
Sounds like shoegaze crossed with death metal! I want to hear this 😊
Nice suggestion, listening to the album now, not too shabby
Do they sound like Rush? I assume they would.
The Kardashev scale is definitely imprecise
Yeah, I feel like scale is almost too strong a word. It's not a fully fleshed out idea
Using a sledgehammer to open a peanut shell is also imprecise, but it's still a metric of functionality.
Obsolete? It never made sense in the first place. The need to control all that energy belies a civilization's technological advancement into hyper efficiencies past levels of physics unknown to us now, which would make controlling all of the energy of a star system or galaxy unnecessary... not to mention impossible.
John is really spoiling us recently
The Kardashev scale looks like all the other attempts in our past where we try to envision what the future is going to look like or what people in the future will be doing.
Or maybe, just what 20th century people desire to do with the universe. Consume stars...
Thanks for all this content lately my guy!
Im really glad I found johns channel. I've been watching Anton Petrov for years now and John's channel is the perfect compliment to antons. It seems Anton mostly makes videos about discoveries and new science while John makes many videos conjecturing and imagining what could be possible. They really both satisfy my intellectual/curious needs in a perfect yin yang way.
I listened to this during a storm. Nice.
John is on fire!!!! Is this awesome long form video #54 this month?
When you first started publishing videos you seemed pensive to speak on the topic, if not skeptical. You've come so far on this subject with such a balanced and harmonious voice and thought process. Thank you.
This week is my first in college and your vidoes are really helping me get through it. Thank you.
You're posting so much recently! Thank you for all the lovely videos.
Can you do an episode on the mystery of consciousness. It would be a little different from your usual fare but I'd love to hear your take on the subject. Thank you. 🚀
I think JMG has to be a physicalist reductionist by default to be able to do the rest of his work. There are a multitude of channels exploring non physicalist and non reductionist perspective like dualism, panpsychism and idealism.
Michael's voice relaxes me yet keeps me interested in the topic at the same time!
Your busy. And it makes me happy. Thanks for the videos. 😊
This channel cheers me up! Gives me hope! A safe space. Thanks JMG!
Ahh, thanks for finally talking about Kardashev Scale as a relict of past when people were thinking that rivers should be straightened and weather controlled, etc. Today we see that it is more efficient to blend with nature and develop tech that does not eat so much energy to function (take the light bulb for example).
This channel is brilliant, mate, keep up the good work, really enjoying it 👍
Saving this video for a night before sleep.
I gotta get that damn joint with your amount of videos haha
You hands down have some of the BEST content on not just youtube, but the ENTIRE INTERNET.
Very underrated channel. Keep up the great work!
Love your videos john!
John loves you @samj5650
These are the exact types of videos I subsubscribed to this channel for. Amazeballs.
This Channel should have a lot more Subs, you are highly underrated Chanel
Johns single handedly kept me going through this long work week.
Once again thank you John!
Wow, I’m having a Sunday morning lay in to keep up!
Lovely video as usual. Thank you for sharing, John!!
This was a particularly interesting video, good work John.
John is on fire with the vids
You rock John!
You rock @budwhite5919
John, you are really dropping banger video after banger video, they’re all amazing and 3 in a week??? Wow, you’re going above and beyond, thanks bro, I love em! :)
It seems like every one of your videos expands my imagination a little bit more and into areas I have never even conceived.
So many fascinating ideas! Thanks a bunch, John!!! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I always thought it was equivalents - not a single planet, you might occupy 3 or 4 planets and collect/store only a quarter of their energy.
Thank you very much for this. There are so many ideas that came out of the 60s that were groundbreaking at the time that frankly don't hold up now. And that is ok - 60 years is a long time.
But Dyson Swarms, Fermi Paradox and the Drake Equation all need this kind of revisit. Some will fall apart, some will be updated and improved.
Keep them coming johno!
Some truly fascinating stuff here. I've been taking notes. A wealth of ideas to unpack and ruminate upon.
Bro is knocking out good videos like I knock down trees at work
Thank god, just in time for bed time. The videos are so calming for some reason..
Love the atmosphere of your vids. I'll be watching every one.
This man is on FIRE with this epic production upload rate!
John I have been on an episode of binge drinking every day and I gotta say I really appreciate your videos being there despite my life falling to pieces, keep on rocking in a free world brother!
Hope you feel better soon❤
Damn JMG, what's with the rapid release of all these videos? It's not my Xmas, or your Halloween yet. Either way, it's a treat.
In a remarkable cosmic coincidence this is exactly what I was thinking about when I woke up this morning. We don't see the galaxy being turned into a huge energy sink, because by the time you can do that, there are easier ways to do things.
Damn! So much good content dropped in days!
Great images in this video!
I love your videos man i listen to them every night before sleep it helps my anxiety.
You can tell that John is just having some fun with all of the new breakthroughs in science and technology in this amazing world in which we liiiive.
Soooo....I wake up and see the notification for this.Being still sleepy, I totally read "Kardashian" instead of "Kardashev".😂
I was like WTF!😂
Great video as always!Keep up the good work and greetings from Romania!
The Kardashev scale is absolutely obsolete. This has bothered me for years. Thank you for making this video.
Your content is Always thought-provoking, & fun to contemplate. Thank you. 🗿
Just here for the algorithm:) amazing work as usual JMG
Another great brain stimulation piece, John. Thank you.
Keep ‘em coming !
Did not see/hear mention of the Douglas Adams Scale, namely:
1. What do we eat?
2. When do we eat?
3. Where do we want to go for lunch?
I like that one very much. 🙂
Great video, i agree that the scale isn’t really realistic nowadays as we have a better idea of the future. i like the unique information scale Sagan made tho, that makes more sense. Thanks as always John!
Always an interesting take on things, John. How do you do it every time!?
You’re on a roll. Thank you.
Awesome video!
Been subbed for years, dont comment much I just do this.🤘😆🤘
Finally! Thank you John.
Damn JMG. You deserve a new LeBaron for all the videos lately.
Holy Baloney, I have dwelt on a negative scale, and got a head ache trying to go past molecular level!
JMG, put it in focus!
Great minds think alike!👍🏿🥂
This is why I love your channel. You always end up finding the right question and not assuming the answer.
Image a species that has progressed past the need for civilizations or infrastructure? A species that has a semi infinite source of power can move through almost any medium(including rock) and in any gravity well. Has no need for individual expression or legacies. With no limiting space, resources, or life span. This kind of species could be right under our feet, and we would never know it(even harder to prove if people actively hide it too).
"The more advanced a Being becomes, the more the Being becomes passive and unbiased, not benevolent or malevolent"
LATELY Bro you are KILLING IT.
You have the best voice for communicating science JMG.🙌🙌🙌
Such an amazing channel
I look forward to these videos every night!!!
The type one described earlier in this video, the one where they live near their homeworld but left it pristine, pair that with the zoo hypothesis. They could be waiting for the next wave of civilization from their homeworld to join them. This could explain some of the UAP incidents throughout history. Or maybe the ones from our system, out there in trans-neptune orbit came from Mars or Venus instead, but still interested in what Earth might produce.
John Michael "The Murderous" God-Tier!!! Haha! Keep kicking ass! Your stuff is always thought provoking. You and Isaac Arthur are the two people I like listening to about futurology.
My scientific day is made! JMG is a must-listen to every week
Good episode.
Your voice seems a little bit different I hope you're not getting sick, love your content
This is really interesting!
Any videos coming up on the purposed Dyson Sphere candidates? Or are they the old ones that have already been covered on the channel?
Intressant som vanligt från denna kanal.
A great synopsis about Kardashev. I've held the opinion for years that it isn't "the quantity of energy extraction and waste" that determines the sophistication and technical capabilities of a species; it is access to certain technologies that may even reduce their need for noisy low-tech energy exploitation ...
A civilization that gains access to fusion technology, that replaces rocket-gas-expelation with ionic type propulsion to explore its solar system, that can engineer essential and durable materials without plumbing them from their home planet or orbiting satellites, that can build compute systems that do work from a miniscule size and energy profile -- so, has developed high temperature superconductors -- or that has replaced electron/positron communications with photon/crystalline modalities... A species that has moved beyond its host planet, which it would become more of a caretaker of... ALL OF THESE technologies would indicate to me, an observer outside the civilization, that a species has moved from cataclysm-survivalist to a highly durable species with the capacity to survive even the complete destruction of its home world ... from Type 0 ... to Type 1.
But an obvious consequence of this evolutionary model is -- that it would become infinitely more difficult for a distant observer to detect the existence of such a species, except perhaps optically, as quantum communications is so discrete a process there is no waste scatter for radio telescopes to pick up. So it may be COMMON for sophisticated species to reach Type 1, but the payoff of this level of sophistication is that it becomes nearly impossible for anybody else to detect it, unless it wishes to be. The Great Silence may simply be evidence of that.
These vids help me drift off into sleep peacefully. Thank you sir
So glad someone is finally making this clear!
JMG is the GOAT keep up the interesting content!
Me explaining infinity to my mom and how all things equal zero inside an infinite box while she is driving because I disrespect the dangers of existential horror while operating machinery.
❤ ❤❤❤❤ THANK YOU John… good work 🌷❗️
Best content ever as usual
Yes, there is other tech out there.
"AKHUALLY, Nicolei Kardishev, once we develop fusion energy, we don't NEED to command the energy of an entire star."
Man, I love me a good JMG video after a long day of living 😵
Wow John you've really been spoiling us with so much quality content lately.
Do you play video games and if so what are your favorite sci-fi games?
Hands down my favorite is the Mass Effect trilogy. Before that it was Starcraft.
@@JohnMichaelGodier Mass Effect is my favourite too. I'm looking forward to Starfield but I wish it was bioware that had made a huge open world game so we could explore more of the Mass Effect lore.
Every night is something new thanks John
I propose a Kardashian scale, based on the degree to which civilizations are self-absorbed. It doubles as an answer to the Fermi paradox.
Thanks john, love ya brother x