The imagery in this canto is so beautiful! If I were better at drawing realistic human figures, I'd be interested in doing a colored pencil or pastel artwork of some of the scenes. It's even more beautiful in Italian, which reminds me I need to resume my memorization of the entire poem and learning Italian. Something is always lost in translation, no matter how good the translator, and there are some words that don't authentically translate at all.
Right - I’m going to try to make my next videos a little more about the language and the translation, because the higher he goes, the higher goes his language! I see this canto 28 as a precious emerald. Maybe I still prefer 27 from the narrative standpoint, but nothing can beat the pastoral beauty of 28’s poetry.
I'm finding that while Kirkpatrick's translations has its own pros and cons, a lot of the time when you point out some things that might be lost in translation for some editions (such as brown, brown, or the description in 34) he seems to find a way to stay true to the meaning. He kept it as dark, dark in 31, and in 34 he says "My pace here checked, I passed in sight alone beyond the stream"
Beauty is the word that springs to mind reading this canto. The start was positively dreamy. Thanks for unpacking the second half though. I don't think there is an English word that expresses being fragrant. On the leaves sounding like the lowest organ note, I quite like Kirkpatrick's choice of "steady undertone" here.
Kirkpatrick must be the most creative of the English translators I’ve found so far. I love “steady undertone”. I checked online and the only translation that comes up for the modern Italian version of “aulire” is “to smell pleasantly”, so I think you’re right, there is no single verb in English to say that. I hope you had a good Sunday, Roz! Mine is halfway through…
Your explanation of the finer meaning of the Italian is invaluable. Very important IMO to be an Italian steeped in the Italian culture to convey this precisely. Thank you.
I think the further we go into the Comedy, the more I’ve been trying to focus on the Italian - that’s some good value that I can bring with these videos. Also because Dante’s language becomes much more elevated in Paradiso, with more latinisms and higher-level poetry. I love these final cantos of Purgatorio so much, they’re jaw-dropping.
Wow! Great video explaining the canto. As a musician the Beethoven 6 reference really helped me understand the picture Dante is painting. I’m using Esolen’s translation which has the Italian on the facing page. I couldn’t imagine reading Dante without that. Even my 2 years of college Italian (20 years ago) gives me enough framework to have a sense (sometimes) of what Dante is saying. I really appreciate you reading it in Italian and explaining what gets lost in translation.
Thank you Johanna. Yes, Esolen is really a master! I have tried to read the Italian more and more in my videos. For my Paradiso videos, I’ve been reading a lot of Italian - maybe too much of it 😅
I enjoyed reading this canto. I'm really glad I picked up the Hollander translation. It also has the Italian, which I found helpful when you were reading it in Italian. Great discussion.
@@tomlabooks3263 ah yes but lol...we didn't use the regular readings as it is the feast of st. ignatius loyola and my jesuit parish celebrated with his liturgy...though same theme..
LOVE LOVE the deep dive going on here with Purgatorio and cannot wait to catch up on your backlog. Just found you from John's new video about booktubers. You were a great rec!
Your discussion of the intricacies of the Italian language enhanced my enjoyment of this canto immeasurably. I read this canto last night in the Musa translation, and felt it wanting. In my mind I compared this with two of my favorite literary happenings into idyllic landscapes, which felt so much better executed: the tumbling into a field of violets in Room With a View, and the clearing Winston and Julia enter in 1984. But after hearing your explanation of the Italian, I am convinced that translations make all the difference. Thanks for making it even more beautiful.
Ahhh yes the 1984 clearing! That’s a wonderful memory, thanks for making that resurface. Living in L.A. I really feel the need for some more greenery, I just miss a proper walk in the woods! So glad you found this useful. I’m trying to focus a bit more on language, where I think I can bring more value.
I was really struck by the forest here and how Dante contrasts it with Canto 1 in Inferno ...I can almost imagine he is actually in the same physical space but is seeing it with new eyes ...the transformation is within Dante , helped by Virgil ....
I all too often need that reminder that a work such as this can be enjoyed on an aesthetic level alone. There us just so much packed into it, it is difficult to not get caught up in it all. And, completely agree with those comments on Genisis. Look forward to the next one!😊
Haha yes ! Same with me. As for Genesis, I realized only a few years ago that it is NOT male-chauvinistic book, despite the appearances. It will be fun to talk about it.
@@tomlabooks3263 I would love to have a long conversation about Genesis with you one day. There is just so much in that book that doesn't get spoken about. Or at least, not as much as it should. It is far from a simple book of children's myths, as I often hear it described.
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
I imagine this canto as a must read on a trip to nature. 😀
The imagery in this canto is so beautiful! If I were better at drawing realistic human figures, I'd be interested in doing a colored pencil or pastel artwork of some of the scenes.
It's even more beautiful in Italian, which reminds me I need to resume my memorization of the entire poem and learning Italian. Something is always lost in translation, no matter how good the translator, and there are some words that don't authentically translate at all.
Right - I’m going to try to make my next videos a little more about the language and the translation, because the higher he goes, the higher goes his language! I see this canto 28 as a precious emerald. Maybe I still prefer 27 from the narrative standpoint, but nothing can beat the pastoral beauty of 28’s poetry.
I'm finding that while Kirkpatrick's translations has its own pros and cons, a lot of the time when you point out some things that might be lost in translation for some editions (such as brown, brown, or the description in 34) he seems to find a way to stay true to the meaning.
He kept it as dark, dark in 31, and in 34 he says "My pace here checked, I passed in sight alone beyond the stream"
Along with your enlightening comments I enjoy the beautiful images on screen.
Thank you George! I hope some of my passion comes through…
Beauty is the word that springs to mind reading this canto. The start was positively dreamy. Thanks for unpacking the second half though.
I don't think there is an English word that expresses being fragrant. On the leaves sounding like the lowest organ note, I quite like Kirkpatrick's choice of "steady undertone" here.
Kirkpatrick must be the most creative of the English translators I’ve found so far. I love “steady undertone”. I checked online and the only translation that comes up for the modern Italian version of “aulire” is “to smell pleasantly”, so I think you’re right, there is no single verb in English to say that. I hope you had a good Sunday, Roz! Mine is halfway through…
Your explanation of the finer meaning of the Italian is invaluable. Very important IMO to be an Italian steeped in the Italian culture to convey this precisely. Thank you.
I think the further we go into the Comedy, the more I’ve been trying to focus on the Italian - that’s some good value that I can bring with these videos. Also because Dante’s language becomes much more elevated in Paradiso, with more latinisms and higher-level poetry. I love these final cantos of Purgatorio so much, they’re jaw-dropping.
Wow! Great video explaining the canto. As a musician the Beethoven 6 reference really helped me understand the picture Dante is painting.
I’m using Esolen’s translation which has the Italian on the facing page. I couldn’t imagine reading Dante without that. Even my 2 years of college Italian (20 years ago) gives me enough framework to have a sense (sometimes) of what Dante is saying. I really appreciate you reading it in Italian and explaining what gets lost in translation.
Thank you Johanna. Yes, Esolen is really a master! I have tried to read the Italian more and more in my videos. For my Paradiso videos, I’ve been reading a lot of Italian - maybe too much of it 😅
The language is rich, fratelli! Well done exposition.
Grazie, Maria! What a diamond this one is.
@@tomlabooks3263 It is. To present our image of Eden is bold but that's okay - it's reverent, loving.
I enjoyed reading this canto. I'm really glad I picked up the Hollander translation. It also has the Italian, which I found helpful when you were reading it in Italian. Great discussion.
Does your Hollander translation come with his extra-detailed notes too? He could get into some REAL rabbit holes! : ) Thank you John.
@@tomlabooks3263 Yes, it does and yes, he does. :)
thank-you tom...remembered you at mass this morning as one with zeal to spread the truth.
Thank you 🙏🏻 Such wonderful readings today, all about detachment from material things.
@@tomlabooks3263 ah yes but lol...we didn't use the regular readings as it is the feast of st. ignatius loyola and my jesuit parish celebrated with his liturgy...though same theme..
LOVE LOVE the deep dive going on here with Purgatorio and cannot wait to catch up on your backlog. Just found you from John's new video about booktubers. You were a great rec!
Thank you Brandon (and thanks to John …?). Great to connect with you here.
Your discussion of the intricacies of the Italian language enhanced my enjoyment of this canto immeasurably. I read this canto last night in the Musa translation, and felt it wanting. In my mind I compared this with two of my favorite literary happenings into idyllic landscapes, which felt so much better executed: the tumbling into a field of violets in Room With a View, and the clearing Winston and Julia enter in 1984. But after hearing your explanation of the Italian, I am convinced that translations make all the difference. Thanks for making it even more beautiful.
Ahhh yes the 1984 clearing! That’s a wonderful memory, thanks for making that resurface. Living in L.A. I really feel the need for some more greenery, I just miss a proper walk in the woods! So glad you found this useful. I’m trying to focus a bit more on language, where I think I can bring more value.
I was really struck by the forest here and how Dante contrasts it with Canto 1 in Inferno ...I can almost imagine he is actually in the same physical space but is seeing it with new eyes ...the transformation is within Dante , helped by Virgil ....
Yes that’s a great point Hester - the change is all on the inside of his eyes.
I all too often need that reminder that a work such as this can be enjoyed on an aesthetic level alone. There us just so much packed into it, it is difficult to not get caught up in it all. And, completely agree with those comments on Genisis. Look forward to the next one!😊
Haha yes ! Same with me. As for Genesis, I realized only a few years ago that it is NOT male-chauvinistic book, despite the appearances. It will be fun to talk about it.
@@tomlabooks3263 I would love to have a long conversation about Genesis with you one day. There is just so much in that book that doesn't get spoken about. Or at least, not as much as it should. It is far from a simple book of children's myths, as I often hear it described.
You may enjoy this lecture on Genesis: th-cam.com/video/hdrLQ7DpiWs/w-d-xo.html
JBP’s Biblical lectures are FANTASTIC!!!