I became Orthodox in 2020. It was the absolutely the right thing to do, though I lost friends in the RCC who could not understand. I love my friends and so I wish they could become Orthodox too. God willing.
Raised Lutheran from Kindergarten to University. Lost my faith there; not so much in God but in the Church. Ended up in LA as an actor from 92 to 98. Feel like I caught the last the last wind of secular American culture there. I get on knees and thank God I got out. Now back to the Church of my youth in St. Louis. I knew there was something about Kyle that I liked. Our paths are not dissimilar...praise God!!!
Joseph, I have been wrestling for years with the questions you, Kale, Rod, Steve and Larry (Chapp) have been pondering. I sincerely desire to know your reasons for thinking they do not also exist within Orthodoxy. My impression is that in America many Orthodox are converts, and thus (a) already more intentional and serious about following Christ, and (b) naïve to similar problems within Orthodoxy. My current thinking is that every Church who takes seriously the command to follow Christ is under intense attack and that there is no “pure” Church, or refuge, to be found anywhere: the battle has already begun and so we must stand and fight wherever we find ourselves. Thus, I still remain (reluctantly) Catholic. Thoughts?
I know of one story of abuse in an Orthodox church. The cops were called and he went to jail. He was also kicked out of the priesthood. It also helps that most Priests who deal with a parish are married.
Praise His Holy Name ! Jesus is bigger than all this ! I believe in His saving Grace. What a blessing this conservation has been. It came to the Truth. Hallelujah !
20:00 mark, the Roman Catholic thing is almost entirely predicated on fear, or better put, it is focused on the negative. The confessional stance and lawyering based entirely on avoiding the mortal sin and technically getting into heaven or purgatory, coupled w the fear of going to hell because you are not in communion w the Pope. That’s really it.
As a priest who left ministry and is now a therapist (I was in training before I left ministry), I never dreamt I would leave ministry. Many of your observations are true and priests are suffering and beat down. I now would never return and realize how for me, it was very unhealthy. Though I still very much have my faith, one Catholic even told me once, "just stop whining and return," and people who have been ordained have no idea of the suffering and anguish, a cross that is not redeeming but crushing beyond belief.
I can relate to your story on kissing Cardinal Schönborn’s ring. In 2013, my wife and I met Pope Francis. He gave us rosaries and we knelt and kissed his ring. You can imagine how we feel about that at this point. We have an appointment soon with an Orthodox priest to discuss becoming catechumens.
Interesting discussion, but at 1:58:16 "Are souls being saved in the Roman Catholic Church?". "I don't think they are." And no pushback on that statement? A rather bizarre assertion, at least as phrased, and bizarre that it is just passed over. Sad. Are the Sacraments no longer effective at transmitting the life of Grace to souls? Does the efficacy of the Sacraments depend on the holiness of the hierarchy or the individual priest? I assume the statement was intended differently than it came across.
No criticism here of Mr. Zelden. You get it. A mediocre Easter/ Christmas Roman Catholic who is largely ignorant of fundamental doctrines (Like the Creeds) is saved, and the rest of us Christians who love and serve the Messiah and walk the walk, are not? Membership not holiness and faith and knowing the Word in both scripture and Incarnation are not? You get it Zelden but certainly almost all Catholics do not. That's a cult not a religion. They just love "we're in, You're not". Well the Mormons and Jim Jones thought the same way too. Now I will say this about many non-trad RC. Here in the USA most have Protestant and even Non-Christian in-laws. So family and friends who are better at Gospel values than their own nominal Catholic family cannot be ignored. Result: they reject "no salvation outside Rome". They see holy and good people. They see the values Jesus preached fulfilled in real time. Jesus did say something before his death cryptically about his role as the Good Shepherd. About having another flock he must gather.
I'm very sorry for your experience with the Church, but please try to relate to many Catholics who did not experience the same situations that you did. The Catholic Church is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The gates of Hell shall not prevail against Her.
@James Reisch The problem is people looking for the ideal Church. That only exists with the Church Triumphant. I'm pretty sure the Orthodox have their own issues, which Joseph will realise in time. Nobody's telling Joseph to get over it. He's obviously been grievously wounded. I've experienced some amount of direct and indirect persecution myself. I asked myself whether I was there for Jesus or His priests. I decided I was there for Jesus. So, no matter how his priests behave, I just pray for them. I know it isn't as simple for everybody, and different people have different routes to travel. Hopefully we all make it to Jesus in heaven in the end. And I'm sorry about the Catholics that attacked him. I've had Orthodox say how much they hate Catholics. I'd say we're pretty even on that front, depending on individual levels of extremism or versions of Christianity and relationships with God. I'm not a trad FYI. We need to focus on loving Jesus for Jesus' sake. I have no spiritual director, no access to TLM, my confessor is limited in his own catechesis, I've been verbally abused by priests from the altar...Still here for Jesus alone, with the full awareness that His shepherds are flawed. I am flawed, in different ways, which prevents me from being overly judgemental. I think Satan preys on our frustration and despair to prod us towards offending God eventually. I've realised that venting and holding on to anger gives demons a stronghold, even if it is righteous anger.
@@adolphCat Because they've supported Stalin? No that was Russian Orthodoxy. Blessed adultery? No, that is Eastern orthodoxy generally. Abuse cover ups have been common amongst them. Only they don't have a Cardinal Burke or Archbishop Vigano. Benedict XVI was doing a lot to clean house, till he was threatened with assasination, sabotaged by the curia and finally pressured by certain governments.
I became Orthodox in 2020. It was the absolutely the right thing to do, though I lost friends in the RCC who could not understand. I love my friends and so I wish they could become Orthodox too. God willing.
Welcome Home!
Raised Lutheran from Kindergarten to University. Lost my faith there; not so much in God but in the Church. Ended up in LA as an actor from 92 to 98. Feel like I caught the last the last wind of secular American culture there. I get on knees and thank God I got out. Now back to the Church of my youth in St. Louis.
I knew there was something about Kyle that I liked. Our paths are not dissimilar...praise God!!!
Joseph, I have been wrestling for years with the questions you, Kale, Rod, Steve and Larry (Chapp) have been pondering. I sincerely desire to know your reasons for thinking they do not also exist within Orthodoxy. My impression is that in America many Orthodox are converts, and thus (a) already more intentional and serious about following Christ, and (b) naïve to similar problems within Orthodoxy. My current thinking is that every Church who takes seriously the command to follow Christ is under intense attack and that there is no “pure” Church, or refuge, to be found anywhere: the battle has already begun and so we must stand and fight wherever we find ourselves. Thus, I still remain (reluctantly) Catholic. Thoughts?
I know of one story of abuse in an Orthodox church. The cops were called and he went to jail. He was also kicked out of the priesthood. It also helps that most Priests who deal with a parish are married.
Im loving the rate at which you are making content! Thank you for finding such great guests!
Praise His Holy Name ! Jesus is bigger than all this ! I believe in His saving Grace. What a blessing this conservation has been.
It came to the Truth. Hallelujah !
Honestly, so happy that you're back Joseph!!
20:00 mark, the Roman Catholic thing is almost entirely predicated on fear, or better put, it is focused on the negative. The confessional stance and lawyering based entirely on avoiding the mortal sin and technically getting into heaven or purgatory, coupled w the fear of going to hell because you are not in communion w the Pope. That’s really it.
Kale, Rod Dreher, Skojec, & you are all rockstars, Joseph!!! Keep up the awesome work & God bless!!!🙏🙏🙏👍👍👍
I am glad you are still talking about this.
As a priest who left ministry and is now a therapist (I was in training before I left ministry), I never dreamt I would leave ministry. Many of your observations are true and priests are suffering and beat down. I now would never return and realize how for me, it was very unhealthy. Though I still very much have my faith, one Catholic even told me once, "just stop whining and return," and people who have been ordained have no idea of the suffering and anguish, a cross that is not redeeming but crushing beyond belief.
I can relate to your story on kissing Cardinal Schönborn’s ring. In 2013, my wife and I met Pope Francis. He gave us rosaries and we knelt and kissed his ring.
You can imagine how we feel about that at this point. We have an appointment soon with an Orthodox priest to discuss becoming catechumens.
Take Orthodoxy very very very slow. There's no rush. God is patient. That's my one piece of advice in good faith. Many years my friend. God Bless.
When vestments are worn without strict adherence to scriptural obligations they become costumes.
Also, thanks for giving voice & articulation to what so many of us are struggling with, but are loath to say out loud!!
Lace curtain Irish…. I think that’s a pejorative for Irish Catholic immigrant families not necessarily upper class.
That is right! I just couldn't pull it into my head during the talk. Thanks.
Lace curtain Irish, contrasted with the term shanty Irish. Upper class, lower class.
Joseph, what you need to be talking about is the Eucharist. Is it what the Church claims? That’s why I remain in the Church.
Interesting discussion, but at 1:58:16 "Are souls being saved in the Roman Catholic Church?". "I don't think they are." And no pushback on that statement? A rather bizarre assertion, at least as phrased, and bizarre that it is just passed over. Sad. Are the Sacraments no longer effective at transmitting the life of Grace to souls? Does the efficacy of the Sacraments depend on the holiness of the hierarchy or the individual priest? I assume the statement was intended differently than it came across.
When I kiss a priest’s hand I’m reminding him of his obligation to act In Personna Christi.
No doubt about it~ The Church is suffering badly at this point...
"Eli Eli Lama Sabachthani?"
Joseph: is that a Deacon Bogdan hat?
Outstanding discussion!
What about Church Militant?
…and the work it is doing
It's "White Lace Irish" vs "Shanty Irish".
No criticism here of Mr. Zelden. You get it. A mediocre Easter/ Christmas Roman Catholic who is largely ignorant of fundamental doctrines (Like the Creeds) is saved, and the rest of us Christians who love and serve the Messiah and walk the walk, are not? Membership not holiness and faith and knowing the Word in both scripture and Incarnation are not? You get it Zelden but certainly almost all Catholics do not. That's a cult not a religion. They just love "we're in, You're not". Well the Mormons and Jim Jones thought the same way too.
Now I will say this about many non-trad RC. Here in the USA most have Protestant and even Non-Christian in-laws. So family and friends who are better at Gospel values than their own nominal Catholic family cannot be ignored. Result: they reject "no salvation outside Rome". They see holy and good people. They see the values Jesus preached fulfilled in real time. Jesus did say something before his death cryptically about his role as the Good Shepherd. About having another flock he must gather.
Kyle, Brother...the split in your consciousness is the whole point for them, vis a vie YOU...Us...fugghedaboudit!
PS: Then again, who are THEY?
I'm very sorry for your experience with the Church, but please try to relate to many Catholics who did not experience the same situations that you did. The Catholic Church is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The gates of Hell shall not prevail against Her.
The gates of Hell have already triumphed over the Roman Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church is way past the point of no return.
@James Reisch The problem is people looking for the ideal Church. That only exists with the Church Triumphant. I'm pretty sure the Orthodox have their own issues, which Joseph will realise in time. Nobody's telling Joseph to get over it. He's obviously been grievously wounded. I've experienced some amount of direct and indirect persecution myself. I asked myself whether I was there for Jesus or His priests. I decided I was there for Jesus. So, no matter how his priests behave, I just pray for them. I know it isn't as simple for everybody, and different people have different routes to travel. Hopefully we all make it to Jesus in heaven in the end. And I'm sorry about the Catholics that attacked him. I've had Orthodox say how much they hate Catholics. I'd say we're pretty even on that front, depending on individual levels of extremism or versions of Christianity and relationships with God. I'm not a trad FYI. We need to focus on loving Jesus for Jesus' sake. I have no spiritual director, no access to TLM, my confessor is limited in his own catechesis, I've been verbally abused by priests from the altar...Still here for Jesus alone, with the full awareness that His shepherds are flawed. I am flawed, in different ways, which prevents me from being overly judgemental. I think Satan preys on our frustration and despair to prod us towards offending God eventually. I've realised that venting and holding on to anger gives demons a stronghold, even if it is righteous anger.
@@adolphCat Because they've supported Stalin? No that was Russian Orthodoxy. Blessed adultery? No, that is Eastern orthodoxy generally. Abuse cover ups have been common amongst them.
Only they don't have a Cardinal Burke or Archbishop Vigano. Benedict XVI was doing a lot to clean house, till he was threatened with assasination, sabotaged by the curia and finally pressured by certain governments.
no, Jesus is, not ROC? do they teach this like for real?
@@adolphCatyeah because it's not the church it apostocized from the Church when the Roman see went into schism from the Church.
Trads don’t criticize the Church? Seriously?