Is 30K the wrong setting for LEGION IMPERIALIS?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
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This week we talk space marines, tiny space marines, Legion Imperialis to be exact. Is 30K the best setting for Games Workshop's new epic style game? Let us know what you think! Later on in the show we also trade opinions on the new releases from GW.
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 - Sponsor
01:37 - Legion Imperialis
48:00 - new releases & waffle - บันเทิง
Surely the micro kill-team game should be Lidl Soldiers.
I mean, I remember buying Doom of the Eldar and the old 'Al Pachino' Horus Heresy box from B&M Bargains years ago, but imagine Lidl selling Warhammer.... 😵
It's not "wrong" but it would have been amazing had it been 40k. TinyTau? Count me in.
I’d agree with that. I’d love to be able to field a bunch of elder phantoms and super heavy grav tanks that would cost a fortune at 28mm scale
I mean every previous edition game been in 40k
Tau are for steers or queers.
@@murphy7801 The 1st edition of Space marine and Titanicus was in the HH - marine vs marine. It wasn't until 2nd edition the other races appeared.
Tiny Necrons, and all of those Canoptek vehicles. Monoliths everywhere!
The original Titanicus and Space Marine was set during the Heresy, but it also included Eldar and Orks - because both existed in that time frame. It's just GW that minimizes their existence in the 'modern' HH setting.
I think the ELdar and Orks were added by the codex titanicus expansion (probably precisely because just having the space marines fighting space marined of the core game was pretty dull after a while and in any case the diversity of force options was a good idea). They folded it all together in one set for Space Marine, but that was set in 40k rather than the Heresy.
EDIT folded it all together for Space Marine 2nd edition that is
I was more referring to the Eldar titans introduced in White Dwarf 110, which were explicitly stated as showing up in battles during the Heresy to fight against the forces of Chaos.@@badbones777
@@semajnollissor661 WD 110 was also rules for troops in Adeptus Titanicus as well and predated Space Marine (WD110 was February 1989 and Space Marine came out in summer) and was basically Space Marine before Space Marine, but yes, they never really bothered with aliens much in the Heresy era, but then they never really settled on what the Heresy even was until 2nd edition beyond it being a civil war - it's part of why I'm not that interested in it. I loved that 2nd ed Space Marine came with 3 fairly playable and different armies, was a great game
Yeh, I've always wished they would drop at least an Ork codex for us to use our HH era armies against. Just for the fun at least. I think it's lame that they've shifted towards the siege of terra in 2.0. I don't think they properly covered early and mid heresy to begin with.
@@jamesespinosa690 Honestly the lack of xenos in Horus Heresy is probably mostly to prevent the game becoming an alt-ruleset that competes with 40K but the xenos have definitely been weirdly underserved in a lore sense. Like people have been saying on Reddit that the human focus is inherent to the setting but in the past xenos absolutely were involved on the periphery. In the new version of the story it's almost like they're standing to one side like gentlemen and letting the Imperium get on with it.
Also - surely if they’d gone 40K for new epic it would have been an *immense* commitment of model production. Bear in mind that old epic had no Tau, Necrons, AdMech (outside of titans) Sisters or Drukhari (for starters) to deal with.
It’s probably a safer bet to put out a Necromunda or Blood Bowl type specialist game that had a good, dedicated community and gradual release of new models and factions than to remake the behemoth that is 40K in tiny mode.
Totally agree. I hope that LI succeeds and leads to that sort of expansion in the future!
Egg-zackly. But also! Why give people a second way to play they're favourite army and divert them from your already lucrative product lines?!
I agree. I'm not going to buy my 40K army again, but tiny. I wasn't interested in dipping into HH models, because it's the same scale as before, but just more space marines. This move might actually get me to dip into HH.
I haven't even made it into the main video....."emperors bowels!" is my new favourite 40k quote ever and we need to start a new partition for Dan Abnett to site it into lore
Really awesome to hear my Space Marines mentioned in this video, really made my day. The native American themed space Marines at element are mine haha what a win!
They are amazing, I’ve been wanting to talk about them for a while.
Horus Heresy was first conceived of by Rick Priestley to explain why the first Space Marine game was Marines Vs Marines, and this was because they couldn't afford to make 2 different molds for 2 different factions
So? It's not even the same game. It's 2023. Rick Priestley has had nothing to do with 40K for nearly 20 years.
It was actually the original Adeptus Titanicus that created the Heresy, the precursor to the space marine game. The titan molds were too expensive.
@@McinnesterThat's correct.
@@WardenOfTerra”Why so serious”
I don't know if its been going on the whole video but my god the heavy breathing becomes very noticeable 45 mins in.
In the 'Deathwing' expansion for the original Space Hulk game they were definately native American influenced, one of them (the Librarian I think) was called Two-Heads-Talking if memory serves (Fateweaver would like a word!)
You could use 1 by 5mm magnets to base individual Epic models, then use a metallic board for Travel Kill-Team
Yes I was thinking the same thing, and then you wouldn’t loose the guys cause they would stick to the board
I want travel space hulk
On the subject of cultural marines - on a painting group I’ve seen someone ask if there was a respectful way to do Māori themed marines and a Māori member of the group gave suggestions based on using a specific set of tattoos/designs that I believe were considered ok to use by outsiders.
It was a pretty wholesome interaction. I’d say the key is approaching such schemes with a level of respect, not making it just stereotypes.
Yeah, when done right, it's a great way to learn about and teach others about cultures that haven't really had their time as anything other than stereotypes. And by moving beyond stereotypes, you can create something more unique and interesting that no one has done before. I mean, do you really think Warhammer Orcs would have drawn from football hooligan subculture if they had been made by people who weren't British? Sure, they're a comedy stereotype, but they're uniquely British in a lot of ways - I doubt an American would have the idea to bring the two elements together.
Ultimately, we as creators and artists should strive to make an effort to involve people from within those cultures who have the expertise and sound advice to navigate the tricky waters of historical shittiness that a lot of these cultures have had to deal with. In your example, understanding how the Maori tattoos are really an important cultural touchstone and not just treating them all as interchangable rad-looking props is a great thing to do, and I'm glad to see more and more folks taking the time to listen and learn about these real human traditions and practices and the nuances contained within all of them.
I thought Charcaradons ( Space Sharks) were meant to be Maori?
I can see why they put it in 30k to reduce the amount of models they had to make as both sides are basically the same. But will not be buying as my favourite thing about epic was how different the sides played. #landtrainforever.
That was such a cool model and concept -really wanted one as a kid. The giant Zeppelin thing too!
What are you talking about? 30K has LEGIONS. 100K marines PER army.
@@WardenOfTerra I think they mean diversity of models, not literally the number. As in doing it this way They only have to make Space marines. Not Space Marines and eldar and nids and so on - it's one set of models for basically everyhting in the game beyond the odd special Legion specific thing (if they do them). It's one set of sculpts for everything in the game
Conversely, my favourite thing about OG AT/SM Epic was that, initially, it was like vs like. None of this flipping legion specific rules bloat!
You do have have 3 different factions model wise. Solar auxilia, space marines and mechanicum. All 3 of them have their own things.
The big difference is that all 3 soup perfectly with each other. Narrativly and from a game perspective.
(Also 70% would by the imperium side anyways)
My bet is that they use this release to see what the interest is. When the heresy is over (bookwise) we get the scouring which is the perfect opportunity to introduce orks and eldar.
From that to 40k is rather easy. Just primaris, tau, tyranids and necrons.
Expecting that they release like 14 different factions with 15+ new miniatures each without even checking if the market wants it is asking for too much.
You reminded me of Father Ted 'these Space Marines are very small, those Space Marines are very far away'
Travel death team squad needs an expansion named “death on the commute”, specifically designed for play on public transport and to worry people who see the packaging
Micro Murder Squads, honestly I'd play the hell out of a tiny version of kill team.
I haven't seen any comments talking about it, but the Fallen that have not been forgiven are the ones who are following Chaos. In the Arks of Omen, they specifically talk about how the Lion gives all Fallen the chance, unless they are Warp Tainted.
Wrong? I don't know ... but its a fact that I personally would have bought into the system if it were 40k. I have no interest in 30k, I simply can't get exited about yet more Marines. I want Xenos races.
Actually, just being set in the HH should be no excuse to exlude xenos.
I would be more than happy to have Orks, Eldar, Interex... whatever in HH.
Early HH units are straight from the Great Crusade anyway. Would love to play in that setting.
They could even add new races that are extinct in 40k.
Game is super fun. Can't wait to see how it grows
ok 0
My favourite 40k meme is about Imperial Guard receiving "Flesh Tearers reinforcements."
Some suggestions for alternatives to TRAVEL DEATH TEAM SQUAD... Mobile Mortality Masters, Travel Doom Squad, Moveable Kill Company, Kill Korps (Travel Edition), Portable Death Crews, Travel Slayer Squads
Dinky Dakka! It should have a folding clamshell design, possibly with a boggle style dice popper?
@busktildawn this is sounding brilliantly close to 40k Polly Pockets!
@@jamesturner998 primarch pocket 😂
Really like that you're putting in more images on screen Pat, I've generally seen all of them already but its nice to have an immediate reminder.
One suggestion I have is to set up a monitor for the lads on the couch to look at, just so you or Geoff don't have to go through your phones to talk about articles or reveals or whatever. Could also be a good resource to put up Patreon questions for interviews!
Massive props to Patrick for all the image overlays, it's really useful to follow what you're talking about 👍
Ash from GMG has made a nice overview youtube clip of the history of epic, starting from the first Adeptus Titanicus from 1988 to Legion Imperialis.
I do like the scale as it lets you deploy lot of tanks and titans on a respectable gaming surface, that I don't want to do in 28mm.
Hopefully it does well enough that GW expands to other races or maybe pre-heresy and seeing new alien races.
The use of epic and 40k figures together in a diorama has already been done. By White Dwarf in an edition in the late 80s (don't ask specifics, my old brain has only so much nostalgia it can retain). It was of a scouting party of 40k Ultramarines, because of course, watching an approaching epic army including a titan in the background. Pre-pubescent mind blown!
"L'il Killers" a travelling squad based strategy. The models may be l'il, but the action is massive!
Great idea to have you all answer questions!! Can’t wait
I listen to your podcasts all the time, when I’m chilling or on the way to work, and I have to say you’re the best Warhammer podcast around, thank you so much for all you do.
Too kind
Guess the issue with doing this in 40k is the size of the range in 40k, restarting that is going to disappoint with whatever gets left out
HH allows it to be framed with a more limited miniature range, at least initially, and see how and if it takes off
20:00 the lads are creating a Mighty Max-esque Kill Team board 😂😂
Those mics are excellent, I can properly hear Geoff's heavy breathing 😅
I’m blaming Pat, possibly…. - Geoff
Got to say, I enjoy Geoff's sojourns into military chat! Looking forward to Jordan coming on: he's doing a great job and stumbled across him at the start of his TH-cam ventures.
I'd love to see you guys putting together these dioramas, I think it could really tell some cool battlefield moments
I think they missed a trick by not having it set during the great crusade itself, IE, Solar Auxilia and Marines vs Orks, Eldar, etc.
Wait... Holy shit. That's genius
They could still branch into that. Maybe they are just testing the waters?
Yeah this is also my opinion for big 30k, just give us a campaign book or three set in the crusade. That lasted way longer than the Heresy and let's you play with Orks and Elder, and they could drop a couple pdf armies like they did militia and demons and give you some other aliens and humans.
Quite like the idea of using some of those vansarr necromunda kits for the Interex or something.
They can always do an expansion based on that. It's not difficult.
Isn't this just 40k but without the appeal of modern 40k?
A huge part of the reason for setting it in the HH is they only need to create 2-3 ranges to cover the whole scope.
In fact, the inability to bring all the 40k factions immediately into small scale is exactly where the HH was invented in the first place.
In the initial release of Titanicus, and then Space Marine, they created the concept of this immense ancient civil war to explain why two identical factions were fighting each other.
Bill makes stuff, made that travel board a great watch! How to make a magnetic game board 10mm wargaming, i think it was called
I once made a tongue-in-cheek one-shot dungeon escape game for my gaming squad and I called it Space Dungeon Adventure Escape Team Gang...
Also, I am excited for Teeny Weeny Space Mariney 👍
Great episode!. keep up the great work!
Thunderbirds had a rolling road and a rolling background, they moved at different speeds to give the illusion of speed for flying vehicles etc
Im not sure if it was Eric or another youtuber but someone years ago made a mini version or 40K with epic models and a tiny board built into a mini suitcase type box. it was awesome
The emblem of the Kievan Rus was a trident, so I'm guessing that's the connection they're going for with the Emperor's Spears.
Was that almost a mention of Chris Bone's giant cocked Minotaur army? 😂
I have to say, over the last few episodes, Bella has become a high quality contributor to the podcast. She should have a shot at giving painting tutorials.
Couldn’t be worse than her owner!
There is no podcast that makes me smile as much as this one.
Another great chat show - look forward to this each week 🤣
Dark Angels wear a feather as an homage to one of their protected worlds that they got initiates from which had a culture akin to the Northern American First Peoples...
Glad I wasn’t imaging it.
@@thepaintingphase If I remember the short story of the same name, the Deathwing wears white in honor of a squad that had a last stand on their very, very Plains Indian themed home world.
Came here to say this, glad someone beat me to it.
It was early Space Hulk lore from the Death Wing expansion - before GW created the different wings for the Dark Angels later on.
Regarding the ad-mech model, in my Head Cannon it's a result of a requisitions Officer misreading an order from a Battlefield Commander requisitioning a couple of "stealth snipers" And through some Administrative mishaps they turned it into "stilt-snipers" 😅😂
😂🤣😂
"emperor's bowls!" Is my new favourite expletive
You'll enjoy reading the Cain series, I may have pick it up from that
Just a few 40K movie themed games, Man of Steel (Rogue mechanicum Robot on a killing spree in the underhive), T'aurassic Park (Lone scout squad trapped on a jungle world full of cloned T'au who have escaped the research facility and have a genetic flaw where they are homicidal) and the The Talented Mr Ripper (Tyranid Ripper Swarms take on Grots) :)
Maybe Aldi should rename their crocs Aldigators.
Would love to see some Imperialis content. Be it battle reports, or painting em up. :)
It needed to be 40k. I want a massive Necron army.
Nah...much cooler being Heresy.
@@batteredwarrior Oh yeah.. SO cool... space tin cans vs slightly less boring space tin cans using the same models for every unit.
What could be MORE exciting? Aside from a prostate exam from a doctor with poor depth perception.
The game is headed for obscurity. Nobody cares. There's literally 30 copies gathering dust in our local store, nobody wants to waste the money on yet another dead gw abandoned in a year ip.
I, ve made a travel killteam with my old epic miniature and
I put each minis on a small magnet with the board on a metal plate! It was fun to make and
I craft the terrain too with 2 containers… but
I’ve loose the small ruler and just to think the calcul to do another one … maybe one day!
A nice holiday parody would be Violent Night Lords. Cheers!
Base them as individual models with "PEGS" in the bottom and holes in the board like travel chrss
Questions for you guys sounds great! Got a couple in mind ready to go! :-)
"I had a plan! We were going to move to Fiji, with a cow and a sheep and breed horses!"
If we're going on heavy accents, I love the Brazen Minotaurs, from Labyrinth of Sorrows, they have really strong Jamaican accents.
I'd love Travel Kill Squad Team, nothing beats playing a game on the go.
Fast forward six months and ‘Travel Death Team Squad’ is Kickstarter’s most successful funded product of all time
If only.
I just wanted to say . In regards to the sponsor . I sold War Daddy Miniatures a whole lot off Blood Angels Models . I recognized the metal Mephiston with the OSL effects haha .
Can certainly tell you though I did not sell the models to him for the same price they are charging you lot :P
There can never be enough chat shows. I wish you guys did them everyday.
I for one, would love to purchase "Pocket Exterminus Game" so I can travel and get P.E.G.'d.
Very clever
What you need for Death Team is The Peachy starter set the Geoff starter set and the Patrick starter set that way you can have different themed expansions like Geoff's baber shop, Peachy's motor bike, and Pats camera equipment. Each set has it's own rules 😂 but also they each have bits for each other character so you have to buy all of them
Needs a Sharpe expansion too.. for no apparent reason they are all using flintlocks, shooting lead bullets.. and somehow are outgunning heavy bolters squads
@@MarkOfTzeentch oh absolutely, but that comes out in the second season with a different version of Shawn Bean for the Peachy, Geoff, and Patrick factions and then having his own faction
In defense of Horus Heresy, it allowed "tank" focused or terminator focused armies with a "rite of war" long before 40k caught up with an updated force org. It was fresh and different at the time, and used the 7th rules which were much preferred by some (including me).
The new version is even better, and adds reactions which makes the game feel a lot more involved, a bit like the command point rerolls.
The Age of Darkness box is also fantastic as a starter, and has nearly 2000 points worth of troops, and the barrier to entry is cheaper now.
You could end up with an awesome mix if they expand into great crusade/ xenos in the 30k timeline. Eldar and Orks were both present for sure, and they could introduce cool bigger tanks/walkers without having to port them into 40k... plus primarchs were around in 30k. 40k wouldn't make as much sense as you would be fielding whole chapters with the points value of infantry.
Like all HH, it's perfect for GW because they don't have to invest in multiple alternative faction sculpts. It's just identikit space marines in different colours hitting each other.
Except there's already 2 factions in the starter. With probably several others in the way.
@@Matcapoeira86 two factions who can be played as foes or allies.
All factions can be played as foe or ally
You guys are really on to something with this. I would buy mini travel death team squad match game.
I understand why they did it, gauge popularity and then expand to rest of 40k if it does well. But I think it won't have widespread popularity without the most iconic factions, so it's a shame it's probably dead in the water, like aeronautica imperialist
Warlords epic Waterloo range is very tempting to me though, the ability to fight the whole battle on a kitchen table seems awesome
I think that's probably what it is, but on the other hand the popularity is arguably already there - fans have kept Epic going for ages even adding rules for other races that came long after Epic was no longer supported by GW, so I'd be very surprised if it weren't. On the other hand a lot of the people might already have armies and play with the living fan rules so might not bother with an official thing after all this time.
EDIT Folded it all together for Space Marine 2nd edition, that is
@@badbones777 I just feel lots of people like me, who would have bought into proper epic, aren't gonna get LI and Gw will think it's a failure and we'll never get new epic
I think HH is the perfect setting for LI/Epic. Obviously there are big battles in 40K, but they're more synonymous with 30K. And can you imagine how long it would take GW to release essentially the entire 40K range in Epic scale? It makes sense to keep it to Marines, at least initally while they gauge popularity.
I enjoyed the chat guys as always.
what I would say is if you are talking about a new product as a theme it would be better to know the product a bit more to be able to discuss / critique it better. Or at least have the ability to pull it up on a screen for you guys.
Keep up the good work :) :)
I feel like going into epic scale 40k could potentially be a risk for GW as they wouldn’t want their main product to take any hits.
Looking forward to legion
MESBG Is my game but this one has drawn me in so I’m looking forward to getting my starter box :) :)
Also- you were great on games night with the yoga cast peachy :) really enjoyed that
"Little Jeff" has a nice ring! I'd never say it to his face, however, because he looks like he could kick through a bus!
I’m mostly a sweetheart tbf.
We need to link the Twitch chat from last week-ish when we came up with 40k movies and shows :D That was a pretty good flow.
12 Angron-y Men
Just 12 berserkers in a room arguing.. and Angron is the judge quickly losing his patience
Excellent
1 hour 40 minutes to hearing 1 of them breathe into the mic the whole time. Wouldnt want it any other way lmao.
Epic is my favorite GW system. Im quite looking forward to painting tons of tiny World Eaters!
15:44 - Travel Kill Team, glue them to a magnet as the base. Then make all your terrain have a layer of magnetic metal on it - use some old metal cans.
I forgot I ordered LI until I got tracking notification today. Ooops.
Always a banging time, gentlemen :-)
I am so gutted the Elysians are no more :(
Print like your life depends on it.
Zulumarines VS Praetorian Guard, gonna turn out different than the Battle of Rorke's Drift.
Space sharks seem a little bit Maori with the markings IMO.
The Primaris force im working on are based on loyal/stay behind Luna Wolves, The Werworf Order, norse but not wolfy influences. All good fun, the wolfsangel used for a chapter symbol is likely to poke some people in the eye, which makes it more fun :P
I've been making a TavelHammer - 40k (8th) using the old epic minis - tiny magnets in the bottoms of the minis and terrain, and ferrous rubber sheets to make the board 😅
Here are you guys all laughing about the idea of a mini Kill Team (in a good way!) but some of us made our own in 15mm a couple of years ago! Steel washers for bases and magnetic sheets inside repurposed backgammon cases; it works a treat!
Indeed. That's no new idea at all and around for years.
An it's great! I did a 15mm Zone Mortalis board. Still a lot of work, but manageable.
I do Dark angels and thousand sons in heresy and 40k respectively. I don't want to do more marines, I wanted Orks or Eldar with crazy xeno machines and titans
Tyranid Bio Titans!
Pop-up terrain is a great idea and Tabletop Titans have already made a couple sets for full 40K/AOS. I haven't got any myself but they've done some battle reports with it and the board design is fantastic. Good balance if you're competitively minded (I'm not particularly!) and very clever design.
Game name idea: Sly Marbo and the Temple of Doomrider
I once was going to do a travel space hulk years ago and use epic figures with small magnets on them. It's still on the to do list
Need Travel Death Team Squad merch in the store ASAP.
Travel death team squad match sounds like a Kickstarter to me im in
Epic going to be great! Cant wait for the primarchs 🎉😊
Awesome!, so when is Travel Death Team Squad coming out?
Angron with the wind
Fulgrim metal jacket
Space wolf of wall street
Really need to work on the mic setup. Listening with headphones and it's picking up someone's breathing to the point they sound like they're on a respirator. It's all I can concentrate on now.
So are we thinking Kickstarter for Travel Death Team Squad or what?
Travel kill team amazing idea, base the minis on little disk magnets and the board is made of the magnetic sheet people use in the home made magnetic really useful boxes.
Was just about to type the same 👍🏼
Don't need to magnetise your bases when the base IS the magnet
Geoff with the god tier dadjoke “Warlord titanic” 😂😂😂😂 hero
I’m glad my humour is appreciated.
Peachy, I think the person you're referring to is @blackpantherastartes who makes the awesome african tribe inspired marines
does anyone know what i should search for the 'Roam Lapet adepta sororitas' display minis they spoke about? keen to see them but i think the names a bit wrong
He's on insta: Roman Lappat Miniature Art
'My pile of shame is so big, I can barely hold it in my hand!' 😭
Pack the Kill Team minis and cards in a tiny metal mint case and call it Kill Tin.
Genius!
A 4x6 40k table would scale down to 12”x18” for Legion. I already started to work up some tiles with deployment lines and objective spots for a Legion size game. And the “Pocket Team Kill” board is next in the works lol. And the bases would have to be small disk magnets for Pocket Team Kill, and the board would be small enough to not need to fold up but I do like the card stock map insert on top of a metal plate. A double gang metal electrical box cover might be the right size for that metal plate too.
I was a bit off on the metal 2-gang cover at least from the US side it’s a little short of a 6”x6” Legion scale to make a 24”x24” Kill Team board.
I can't wait for the Jordan Sorcery episode. That guy is fantastic!
The loud breathing that wasn't edited out is very intimate
You lucky thing.
Last viewer turning off the lights before I go. And cracking up because you didn't run the patron names at all, even after Peachy commenting on them being there. 😂
As for all the Space Marine Lieutenants I'd much rather prefer rules that let you build characters with whatever load out you wanted, and then just release upgrade kits to encourage kit bashing - wouldn't work with 10th edition power level I guess. I think the no-model-no-rule policy is the worst thing about 40k.
Necrons are losing 3 awesome, fan-favorite characters in the 10e Codex because all their models are Finecast. Or, were Finecast, I guess.