Is it the end of the road for Shanahan?| OverDrive - Hour 1 - 05/06/2024
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 พ.ค. 2024
- Bryan Hayes, Jeff O’Neill and Jamie McLennan discuss the Maple Leafs being eliminated from the playoffs, why this core can’t get it done and this years loss being an eye opener for the entire Maple Leafs fanbase, how much change it coming, is it time for the organization to move on from Shanahan, Mitch Marner’s future in Toronto, how much is on him for the teams loss against the Bruins and more. They also chat about Matthew Tkachuk’s comments about who the Panthers thought would win between the Bruins and Maple Leafs, the lack of draft success in Toronto and more.
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10 years, only one playoff series win against a Tampa team that was very diminished in 2023, how Shanahan and Keefe could get another chance is insane. In Montreal both are long gone and so is Marner.
One series win in 20 years, not 10.
By the way, Montreal won’t win a cup for another 70 years. Nor will any other terrible Canadian team.
@@markg2307 eat poop and croak
@@markg2307 What are you talking about, Montreal will be back. Oilers will win the cup this year! Bet?
As a Yank and a a fan of most Canadian teams, my heart breaks for the Leafs organization and fans. No doubt that the NHL is better with contending original six teams. Is the Leafs problem just a bit of a tweak or does this fall all on Shanahan’s shoulders? I think it’s a bit of both. My dream is to see a Chicago Toronto Stanley Cup Finals.
"When I thought i was out,They pulled me back in"
That’s not the quote.
Marner didn't even stand in front of the media after the loss. His time as a Leaf as ended.
Mitch is always the same.
that was a bitch move for real.
Marner decided to stop back checking and then he just watched his check score in OT.
If we extend Marner it’s a sign we are committed to losing
Leafs need more players like Matthew Knies, looked fearless. Marner, complete opposite, no more skilled powderpuffs.
There's is a dispute about their character. Why is marner being allowed to skip media scrums and comments after that game isn't he wearing an A
The team chooses who has media availability. They wanted to protect Mitchie and Mo
Matthews an marner been both taking turns wearing the A all year idk why one of them had it when they were both playing a few times too so it’s not like it was jus cuz 1 was out the lineup
Give me Knies all day, Marner does not have the mentality...skill through the roof, but we need heart, grit, and mental toughness.
O nailed it as soon as Matthew's came out they started to play playoff hockey .. that's the coach
He's not a team player that's why, he has hardly any assists and good players have more assists than goals. He's a legend in his own mind.
I thought this video was 10 years old with how good O-Dog is looking! Ozemp-Dog
All these injuries will be the excuse of not making any changes!!!!
Yes, "injuries".
26:58 says it all. This is the "core 4" in the playoffs. Unbelievable.
If you can only muster 1 shot in 4 minutes, you need to sit out the next PP or even shift. That is on the coach for not making them accountable. Everyone keeps blaming a lack of accountability on the player's part, but who's responsible for ice time? You think players are just jumping on the ice whenever they please? Keefe isn;t 1/10th the coach that Babcock, Burns, Quinn, etc, was. Absolutely ineffectual. I hope he isn't back next year. Talent needs guidance and he wasn't it.
After the teams's performance against Columbus in 2020 and the Canadiens in 2021, it was clear that this core group simply could not get it done come playoff time. Shanahan and Dubas played into the regular season hype. I'm surprised that Shanahan has put up with this for so long. He is one of the grittiest players in NHL history, played on some tough Cup winners in Detroit, was coached by some stern coaches in Bowman, Keenan etc. Yet, he's allowed his Leafs teams to be so soft.
And Shanahan was the missing piece for those Detroit teams in the 90s. Before they traded for him, the Wings were known as a very skilled team that lacked grit and toughness. Shanahan was that piece they needed. He could play physical and could score 30-40 goals a season. So it just makes no sense why he chose not to assemble the Leafs in the same way and was just committed to giving 4 soft forwards the bulk of the salary cap.
Maybe it's not his plan, and he's just the front man taking the heat. @pomerlain8924
Fire Shanahan. Enough is enough.
Would love to bring Konechny to this team.
Which one of the core 4 goes to Utah
Mitch
Noodles is an absolute beauty😂
Did the TSN make-up, camera, and lighting crews get insane pay raises? The three of you look ten years younger. I didn't even recognize Jeff O'Neill. Nice work. Now everyone who goes on camera at TSN will expect to be treated with the same magic wands.
They used the same segment from 10 yrs ago cause it was identical .
@@Beachbumbaby😂🤣😂🤣😂bro!!
Thanks for posting
I think hiring Dubus as GM was a mistake by Leafs
Dubas conjobbed his way into the NHL with a lot of greasy help and misrepresentations like Dellow did in Edmonton, the 2 are long time buddies. Dellow/Eakins got Mactavish sent to Russia and Kevin Lowe neutered.....yes Shanny has to fall on his Sword over his because it was a PERSONAL REFERENCE that let Dubas and his poisons into the NHL via Toronto.
Mathews as captain conversation is over. We saw his leadership this last series. You want him to lead the team to quit?
Hayes is NOT a fraud!
The guys did a great job in their analysis. If they can eventually part ways with 16 and 91 either through trades or free agency next year and use their money on goaltending on D Shanny will probably survive.
JT is fine. He can sign for 4-5m
@@people3865what for? He also has another year and you’re talking about resigning him after next season?
Jeff O'Neill should probably be the GM with that analysis. That's exactly what is wrong with the Maple Leafs!
If woll started this series do you think we would have won this series? Answer is yes. This means the coaches made the wrong decisions and goaltending is the issue. It’s simple to fix. Start with Woll next time. He is the real deal. We won when bel four was in net, when cujo was in net, when potvin was in net etc… so we need solid goaltender. One who can steal a game. Else we need to really load up on lots of good d. Marner is not great but still worth keeping. If we win he will learn and adjust. Kid wants to play here despite all the criticism.
Jeff O'Neill should be coach just for the epic rants we would get.
@@DharmYogi 1goal in 20 plus powerplays was a problem 12 goals in 7 games was a problem Role players scoring more goals than the 40 million dollar core was a problem Scoring 2 goals or less in 13 of their last 14 playoff games was a problem. Can the D and goaltending be better hell yeah but trevelling needs to add snot as he calls it to the core 1st and foremost
@@DharmYogiThis was not due to goaltending. Game 3, game 4, certain players invisible, certain players out.
Blaming the goalie is weak and shows a lack of hockey sense.
O Dog for President!
when a winner like O’Reilly didn’t want to stay, that was the sign to me they shouldn’t of believed it would be different this year.
He only left because he knew he would not have a main role, get main minutes. He wants to be the man.
Not because he thought the team was bad. It helps to watch the videos of their interviews and listen to what they say.
*shouldn't have* not "of" lol. That literally makes no sense, "shouldn't of" of??? Just lol.
"Days of Our Leafs." Soap opera.
😂😂😂
😂Lol
We lost cause Nylander was missed!….. we lost cause Mathews was missed!… We lost cause Woll got injured!…. Perfect excuse!
Actually a pretty good excuse when you put it that way
because*
Marner and Matthews are totally useless in the playoffs.
To be fair, Nylander wasn't there for half the series. Look at the impact he had on the series when he did play.
Imagine he was there the entire series.
Do they even know that they have to win 4 games in a 7 games series, playing half decent in three games won't do it.
May be the new coach can focus on that next year.
Get Queneville
If Mitch loves being a Leaf so much then why didn't he play like it .Afraid of his own shadow
Man O-dogg is looking lean & healthy keep it up!
Really good point about how Nylander and Matthews should have shouldered some blame when asked about Marner at around 24:00 of the show. Cheers
Nylander had 3 goals in 4 games
Marner had 1 in seven
all sammy had to do was POKE check the puck...smh.
True, hindsight is 20/20. But if he missed on the poke check people would asked why he left the crease
@@ginor8416 no shot. go watch the replay again. no way he misses that poke check. it was literally right in front of him.
You are forgetting how bad Sammy is on poke checks or handling the puck. But you may be right, he could have been more aggressive on that play
Its terrible for a team to have 1 person elevated, that takes the focus and intensity off the others.
For eight years, especially after the Habs series, Mitch has been the scapegoat...that is not coincidence.
9:23 Shanahan was ready to EXTEND Dubas. Remember that? Shanahan, Keefe, Marner, Tavares and Reilly need to be shipped. How is Shanahan staying even a consideration? It's been 10 years of the Shanaplan.
Should be gone. Reminds me of when my Pens had Burke in the front office with Hextall. Two stiffs who did nothing for the organization.
Now they have Dumbas - won't be long now and they will be calling Burke , Hextall the glory days.
@@pjpredhomme7699 lol. Thats another story for another day. Wish he would have stayed in Toronto.
On the game winning goal, CLEARLY the goaltender was the one who had the best/easiest opportunity to break that play up. He was way too deep in the net and all he had to do even in that position, was to take one stride and poke the puck away.
The issue with Marner is the same as any time you have a player of his stature and contract that you're unsure of and that is, it's VERY difficult to get equal value for him trade wise and even if that were possible, why should any other team bring him in if his problem is he can't preform when it matters most? Do fans assume that the other teams won't know that?
When it comes to moving Marner, it's not about getting equal value. If they can great, but what matters more is the $10.9M in cap space that will open up. With Marner's salary off of their cap, they can have money to spend for a decent blueliner and center that may not score as much as Marner, but has more grit in their game.
@RJM-eh2tv Marner for Hyman straight across.Toronto eats salary.
Treated as gods? well theres your problem right there
They are! He just shouldn't have said that.
Trade any one of these guys (including Auston). They're there for the bag not for chips.
Players are saying we love the fact we're getting paid, idolized, and exiting the playoffs in the 1st round so we can hit the links early. Winning don't matter at all. 😂
"The Leafs are in a transition period." Yeah. Since 1967 bro.
You guys talk about how the guys should have taken responsibility, something like "I didn't pay well enough blame me" and that's exactly what a leader does. That's what Alex Ovechkin did after they were swept "blame me, I did not play well enough." Is what he said. And yall are totally right. The stars didn't do enough. And yet again were sitting here listening to leafs Nation and Steve dangle and every NHL commentator saying everything we've heard for the last 5 years. They can't. Do it.
They should make Shanahan fire himself. If he refuses, then fire him.
If I was a Leafs fan i'd be most worried about them running it back again with the same core.
The way they talk to the media says none of them are captain material
Leafs in 80s had more trustworthiness.
Hey even Tampa got ousted with Stamkos, Kucherov , Hedman and Vasilesky. I mean it wasn’t even close.
I think it is enough for this year to just dump Marner, somehow. It will be difficult because he has a full no trade, but don't worry about what you get back. It's enough to just open up the cap space in order to improve the D-corps and upgrade 1 half of a goalie tandem with Woll. If the D-corps is improved, it will help Reilly because he hopefully won't have to play as much as he does now. Reilly is really good, but currently being asked to do just a little too much. As for Keefe, I'm not crazy about him as coach, but who else is available right now? Just because of how the team played in the last 3 games, it FINALLY (FINALLY!) looked like the team was willing to play the right way in the playoffs. So, if this can finally be the start of something, I'd be OK to keep Keefe to build on this. But the leash is one year, and only if Marner can be ditched. Management should also start talking to JT about what he is thinking long term. What is he going to be looking for on his next contract? If it is a really sweet home town deal, OK, ride out the final year of his old deal. If not, let's start talking about ending this relationship now. He has value, and just like Ray said in his segment, JT is giving you everything he can. I think his faceoffs and defensive play have been worth more than he gets credit for, the bad part of his deal is here. Everyone knew his contract was signed for the hope it could give at the start of it, and that the team would pay for it in the final years. But again, he isn't awful, I want him on the team, but at an appropriate cap hit. So what's the long term outlook on that? Also, is there a conversation to be had about who is wearing the "C" because Matthews, if he wants it, is THE guy now on this team.
Brendan Shanahan was run out of St Louis for sleeping with a teammates wife. That's not the kind of person that can evaluate what makes a good teammate.
If woll started this series do you think we would have won this series? Answer is yes. This means the coaches made the wrong decisions and goaltending is the issue. It’s simple to fix. Start with Woll next time. He is the real deal. We won when belfour was in net, when cujo was in net, when potvin was in net etc… so we need solid goaltender. One who can steal a game. Else we need to really load up on lots of good d. Marner is not great in playoffs but still worth keeping. If we win he will learn and adjust. Kid wants to play here despite all the criticism. I look at the root cause and that’s goaltending.
Woll was not playing that well to finish the season after coming back from his ankle sprain. That's why he didn't start this series. Samsonov was the one playing better and that's why he got he started the series.
I still think they would have lost..some how, some way..Boston is just more mentally stronger..as for Woll? he is made of glass it looks like, he has a terrible track record with staying healthy..Samsonov kept the Leafs in it early especially..but of course Leafs fans forget that
So he would have been hurt for game 3. He can't play multiple consecutive games
No accountability , as long as fans keep paying filet mignon prices for chopped steak , nothings gonna change.
The T.O. Maple Losers are an EMBARRASSING MESS !!! NO EXCUSES.
They have failed to deliver year in year out. Fans have been DUPED into a huge lie.
A disaster...from the get go ..!! Setting records of futility...THATS what the fans got !! Zero respect for this joke of a team .!! Hayes is correct ...IT'S OVER.!
All leafs players were coached what to say by leafs PR. This leafs organization is a disgrace.
Take responsibility for loss and man up they sound like spoiled kids
Well, that should be obvious. Ten years, no accomplishments, didn't even get close, so good bye! If he had a character he would resign himself.
You all said this LAST year and as the summer went along you changed your mind and said give em' shot... Are you ACTUALLY going to stick to this opinion this year, or if September rolls around and we have the same team are you going to just give in and say they deserve another shot because of X, Y and Z...
They just fell asleep at the wheel. Again.
Was Woll injured or was that a coaching decision
It appears Woll got hurt trying to make a that last second save in Game 6, which didn't really matter.
The worst thing about the Leafs is that they actually made a series comeback and gave us hope.
I was fine giving up on them after Game 4. But then they had to win games 5 and 6 and lose in epic fashion yet again in a Game 7 OT to Boston of all teams.
Its like I'm watching the same story over and over retold in different ways.
It was the end of the road for Shanahan 10 years ago when he came to the Leafs
I like this show, It`s not perfect, but it`s good, been good for a long time, best show on TSN network. 20 years ago it was Landsberg, now it`s these guys. Favorite here is Hayes, then Oneil, and then Noodles. Pretty good dynamic between the 3, but Hayes is the anchor.
Sounds like they all love and support each other..Plenty of high 5’s and hugs to give on the golf course while cashing those 11 million dollar checks.
Okay first and foremost I said on here all year long to prepare for this. The Leafs are Charmin and can't score in the playoffs. Saying that.. be honest.. Marner is not the only issue. The team has zero killer instinct in their fabric. The team is coddled and get ready because next year will be the same. Quote me right now. God bless Leaf's fans for standing by this team. You deserve an award leafs fans!!
It happens every year, we were prepared
Toronto sports fans are so nice, they can endure years of failure without boycotting their teams. Leafs, Jays, Raptors most likely going through rebuild or retool, if done properly, there might be some compeitive and enjoyable games to watch, that's what I am hoping for the least.
Shanahan HAS TO GO.
Enough is enough.
Change starts from the top.
We need a balance between grit and skill
Run it back again boys,
Its a culture problem in Toronto, has been for a long time. Its not a talent problem as much as a character problem - the kind of character that finds a way to win.
It requires a GM who understands this and finds a way to create that culture.
You have a real chance at winning by having EVERYTHING in place to win - that's not just players. Its everyone behind them supporing them and making them the best they can be. You must have true grade A people in those positions as well. This is huge and to my understanding is not a financially restricted area like player salaries - start by looking at that.
The injury problems are a symptom of what I am talking about.
it was icing
I love these guys but really Toronto tied their own hands with Jon at $11M until that comes off the book next season I cannot see a lot changing. Trading good player in the prime means you need to get a few good player back in their prime but the price tag of the players the Leafs have means most will not want to pay the price to acquire one of them.
I would have stated Nylander to Calgary would have been an option and still might be but ..... what do the Leafs get back in return. Matthews to Phoenix at least is no longer a narrative!! LOL!!
Also don`t think you are getting an upgrade in net when your two goaltenders are 27 & 25; which are still young when looking at the market. Trade maybe but you are trade away years to acquire an old dog.
Reminds me of when Paul Kariya, and Selanne were on the AVS. Lol
im not a fan of the leafs but i feel like shanahan should get 100% of the blame and should be gone after this shit. we knew marner wasnt built for the postseason, at least with the leafs, after that habs series, and after losing to tampa and keefe making that loser ass comment about how "they showed more respect to us in the handshake line" he should have been gone to. at this point running it back and expecting a diff result is just asinine when youre facing the same opponents year in and year out due to playoff formating, and thinking youll eventually break through lmao. its actually even funnier typing this and saying it out loud.
What truly matters is what the owners think. They are in the business of making money. They don't want moves that won't guarantee them more money. What move will guarantee them more money? None. Keefe will be their sacrificial lamb. That's it. Dream on if you think anything else will happen.
Keith Pelley and MLSE need to Maple Leafs to actually contend. They make money now because of their good regular seasons, but imagine how much money they'd make if they consistently went deep in the playoffs and even make a cup final. The Raptors have fallen off, Toronto FC is not good. The Leafs NEED to be a legit contender. And I think Shanahan and Keefe are fired and Marner is traded. No way in hell they're going to extend him with a raise to somewhere in the $12M range.
@@pomerlain8924 Keep dreaming. you have a wish list which is far from reality. Playoff success has no guarantees. Harold Ballard figured it out resulting in no Stanley Cups when he was the sole owner. Yet, all that money he made ... Nothing will change my mind. I watched them win their last Cup. Did you?
@@ScubaSteveCanadaWanting a team to actually contend for a Stanley Cup is far from reality. What has running it back for 8 years done? Wow, you saw them win a cup in 67? Is that supposed to make you special?
People want to see this team win a cup in this century. And that means making changes, that involve more than just changing the coach. Keith Pelley is firing Shanahan. And Marner is being traded.
O'Dog for Leaf President!!!!
If marner says I'll do 8x7.5per, does he stay?
he will still get more..if Tavares back then was worth 11M?? then Marner now is worth that also..cause Tavares is useless also..so they will have to make a decision after Marner gets 90-100 points next year
What kind of coach uses a type of system in the playoffs that they never used once during the regular season? how can your players possibly play well like that?
Keefe special. Columbus year they used to do that turn back nonsense at the blue line game 3 all of a sudden they were a dump and chase team. But all they did was dump and look disorganized
There was only two, real major issues that the Leafs encountered.. 1. Our Lack of Team defense was an issue in the first two games vs Bruins.. (that is a coaching issue) he has not been able to get this team to play proper defense the entire time he has been here.. That difference, could have gotten us one or two more games before our back was to the wall.. This is a FACT...... 2, Our Powerplay.. Not adjusting our powerplay to an entirely new zone entry and attack is again ( COACHING )... This team should have raced to the blue line with speed and chased a dump in,,,, then force point shots while crashing the net... They failed to adjust and we missed out on maybe, 15 more goals which would have ended this series... In Everything other area, the Leafs matched or exceeded Bruins play... How do we know this --we went to game Seven OT...
Lots of skill for lil mitch but ya no heart probly for the best to hit yhe road kid.
If I was the press I would have said "wait what? You're ok blaming us for your piss poor play for years? Sorry pal but your clubs decades long fails ARE "the narrative!""
LOL, they love Mitch.
Of course they do because he is the goddess of love.
The style of goaltending by going down on the knees on every shot is the main cause of injuries
Man what Jeff said is just be honest. Just say you didn't play good because even saying that is a understatement. Among all the bad luck.
Hayes looks tired. Get some rest big dog, its over now.
Time to put the band back together time to bring pride back to the brand.
On the PP the Leafs need at least 1 player is good on the 1 timer.
Would Toronto ever go look at Woody, Edmonton's old coach?
Folks, you're forgetting about Guy Boucher and the failure with the power play
The Dallas Cowboys of the NHL
Do your fans a favor, Mr. President. Next year, no more embarrassing press conferences (for you and your fans). Just come out. Grab the microphone. And sing two choruses of "Tomorrow" from the broadway musical Annie.
The big four confuse reality with "noise."
It's a country club atmosphere in Toronto. They don't value winning and they don't hate losing. That's a very bad combination.
It should be with the results he s shown and the $$ he makes we all wish we could have his job.
This is why you can never give Mathews the C ,
Everything starts at the top. The Maple Leafs need a new owner. The current one doesn't give a shit about the fans.
Why would they? The stupid fans continue to pay exorbitant ticket prices. They continue to pack the place each game. The organization even started selling tickets to stand outside in Maple Leafs Square. This is on the fans, not the owners.
I attended a Leafs game last Christmas. It was through a friend who had "Club Tickets". We get to watch the game 2 or 3 rows behind the Leafs bench. Before the game, we had complimentary dinner prepared by chefs. During the two intermissions, we had high end snacks. All the alcoholic drinks, like the meals and snacks, were free throughout. The serving staff would even walk the drinks to the stands during the game.
The people we sat with were the who's who of the Toronto business community and some celebrities. Most were not tuned in to the game.
During the game, it dawned on me that there are about 20,000 poor schmucks on the stands who have to pay for the over-priced drinks and the crappy expensive snacks. These fans are who continue to support this lousy team.
Thankfully that was a free ticket because I will never pay for a Leafs game ticket again.
@@lastlaff2777the fans don’t pay exorbitant prices. Most of the seats are owned by corporate and the other ones are owned by rich people. These fans either scalp them or they’re given for free. There is no boo hoo for fans getting ripped off.
Who would you prefer? Teacher’s Pension Plan? Harold Ballard?
Be careful what you wish for.
The problem is (and it has been since the early 80’s, even before) is that the Leafs sellout no matter what. Montreal fans know when to stay away when the on ice product is shit. Toronto keeps coming back for more regardless of the team.
What we really need is another team in the golden horseshoe to compete with this lame franchise.
Yes he does, just look how cheap the tickets are.
Does anyone think Keefe has anything to do with the "don't say anything" mentality??
Run it back but with Marner to Pens for Karlsson pp will be legit Dubas will hook up that trade for sure
Grant shannahan did a lot but look what brad brought in before the season and recently he is already has already a better Gm in a years time
Mitch is capable of going on a 20 game point streak in the playoffs if he would just do it.
Guys that HAVE to show up next year: Cowan, Minten, Webber & Hildeby. Otherwise the Leafs also need SCOUTS!!!!
Need a couple studs on defense to take the pressure off of Reilly
Shanahan, Keefe, Marner and Reilly all need to go..