I used to watch my brother play Oblivion when I was young because my mom wouldn't let me play rated m games myself so I've always held this extremely romanticized version of this game in my head that's lasted to this day. I always felt so jealous of my brother watching him play. The idea of living what is essentially another life was so dazzling to me. Now, everytime I play this game I get a childish joy and I don't care about how bugged it is or anything like that. I still love this game to my core. It is probably my favorite game of all time because of the nostalgic, pollyanna feeling it gives me. :)
My older brother showed me Oblivion as well. I remember he asked for my help deciding what house to buy. I was hooked the moment i saw him walking around in these massive cities with all these voiced characters Before that all I had played was like Pokemon, runescape, and halo
I need a girlfriend like this, so I can force her to watch me play Skyrim. Edit: I got my current girlfriend to try Skyrim and after 10 minutes she went to the bathroom and vomited.
@@Gotz_the_iron_hand Jesus I was afraid of that too, her youknowwhats also got oversensitive and seemed to grow. But no her period arrived at the usual schedule. Thank god, no little Dragonborns running around yet.
Same. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim have a unique charm to them few games can compete with. Nearly 20 years later I still think about quests and random encounters in Morrowind and Oblivion.
There's a popular community theory that Mankar Camoran changed his form to be that of an Ayleid. He is coded as an Altmer because the game has no Ayleid elf alternative, but the Ayleids looked very similar to the Altmer except for darker skin and features (which we see in Mankar). Given the connections the Ayleids had to Daedra worship, and given how Mankars paradise looks very Ayleid design and is named Gaia Alata in their language, I think it's plausible that Mankar reforged his image to match the lost Ayleid race
and it would make some sense that they would be able to wear the amulet since the stone was created by them, being the stone of the white gold tower which they built.
@@EvelynNdenial he also used the knowledge within the Mysterium Xarxes to give himself the Dragonblood, which we know to be true and definitely would allow him to wear the amulet without any Ayleid connections. But yes I do like that link a lot :)
@@enermaxstephens1051 my best theory is that he was a Bosmer before he changed himself with the Razor. His backstory is that he was an illegitimate child of the Camoran dynasty of Valenwood, and whilst the validity of that is still up for debate, it's probably the most solid thing we have on him from before he became who he is now
@@enermaxstephens1051 I'd also add to that by saying that many of the Ayleids fled to Valenwood and sought sanctuary with the Bosmer once the humans took over Cyrodiil. There's definitely enough Ayleid history within Valenwood for a young Mankar to find kinship with
I've heart the theory that Dagon's plan was NEVER for the invasion to succeed, merely for the status quo to be changed irrevocably. Destroying the amulet of kings, and ending the Septim line would change the fate of the empire forever, exactly as Dagon wanted.
I believe it considering the shitstorm that came after. Plus the fact that Daegon is the prince of "change" he probably had a good time watching it all unfold knowing the world would be thrown in chaos.
This comment straight up just changed my outlook on Mehrunes. From "moron who tried to just solo all of mundus" to "Genuine calculated psychopath who wants to see the world burn"
Than consider changing it again, as Mehrunez Dragon is in essence a good prince, he was called forth to change mundus the same way he was created to liberate the slaves of Lyg from the slaver dreugh's. His intention isn't to dominate, like molag bal. His intention was to liberate it, liberate it from the aedra which usurped it from lorkhan and destroyed him. His intention was to bring back lorkhan to Finnish his dream. Mehrunez Dragon is the creator of liberty.@@hellzer6633
Terrence Stamp really gave his all performing as Mankar. I really appreciate voice actors who treat video game performances as seriously as any other medium.
There is actually a book in game that explains that mankar cameron could breath fire out of his mouth, referencing that he must be dragonborn. Which is why he can wear the amulet. It comes off as a plot hole until you stumble upon the book within the game.
My favourite Mankar/Dagon theory is that Dagon never intended to "win" and take over Tamriel. His plan was to set in motion the beginning of the end for the seemingly impervious Empire. The plan was to feed an unstable upstart visions of grandeur and arm him with the tools to enact a rebellion. Mankar then had the royal bloodline assassinated and steal the amulet in order to flush out and contingency plan heirs and force their hand into a hail Mary of destroying the amulet of kings. Mankar (as you suggested) was a pawn. His cult was his own delusion all the way down to the torture etc. Ultimately Dagon won in my opinion
the thought that Mehrunes Dagon said that Lorkhan was actually a daedric prince who was betrayed and slaughtered, Kinda makes me think. Mehrunes isn't big on lying, and the thought of them being buddies, just like boethiah was buddies with lorkhan in the original myth, is kinda wholesome
to be fair, dagon doesn't have to lie for that to be wrong, since the idea canonically doesn't originate with him. basically it's something that dagon's cultists believe but he never actually said, and not bothering to correct a false narrative his cultists believe is in line with dagon's character
Mehrunez Dragon is a liberator, he is as padomaic as lorkhan was, which is seen with him liberating Lyg from the slaver dreugh's. His intention was likely to bring a new kalpa in which lorkhan could Finnish his creation without the likes of Auri-el stopping him.
The speech from Mankar Camoran in Paradise reminds me SO MUCH of the mission in Halo 2 where you're the Chief fighting your way through the Flood-infested High Charity chasing after the Prophets, while the Prophet of Truth makes his speech over the oud speaker. Mankar Camoran even kind of sounds like Truth from Halo 3.
That was Kirkbride's error. He fucked up the plane attributions (which is odd considering he established who had what plane originally) and they didn't notice until after the game had shipped.
I still really love the theory that Dagon actually won and got everything he wanted, the dragonfires were put out, the septim bloodline is gone, and the Thalmor were put into power
not really, the dragonbreak literally didn't happen so there's still an heir and also there's a few towers still standing. I think the adamantineis still standing and technically the white gold is although it did fall briefly in oblivion
@@wearecoterminous White-Gold Tower is deactivated, the Amulet of Kings was its Stone and now it's gone so, it's just a Tower now with no power... same with the Crystal Tower, the Altmer rebuilt it but as far as we know it's deactivated now since the Stone may also have been removed/destroyed when it fell
@@thalmoragent9344 I thought the whole point of becoming an aspect of akatosh was to protect the white gold forever? So we still have the adamantine tower, the throat of the world because dragons showing up did literally sweet fuck all and nothing changed because of them. I think the anumidium being rebuilt technically counts if they used the heart/bones of lorkhan instead of like a dwemer artifact that uses tonal architech but that's sorta left up in the air, the quantum moon was a tower but the thalmor figured out how to manipulate it so that's probably gone. Hopefully we see the logical conclusion to all of this in the future. We're currently setup to get the coolest elder scrolls game yet but odds are they're going to completely ignore the cool plot that they set up and make it about fighting giant enemy emperor crabs and worthless local politics or something dumb instead of bringing us one step closer to c0da. By the way that dudes right you literally are everywhere
@@wearecoterminous No, becoming an Aspect of Akatosh was the way to channel all the power of the Amulet of Kings and then use it to fight Dagon. After that, it was used up and Dagon was defeated. White-Gold Tower still stands but no more Amulet, as in, no more Stone for the Tower to be considered actively affecting Nirn Throat of the World or rather, Snow Throat "Lies sundered and Bleeding" due to the Civil War, so whether Alduin being tossed away through time or whatever sealed the deal on top of the mountain, well... who knows. As far as I'm concerned, Adamantine Tower is the last, officially active one. May be some on Akavir, but other than that speculation, well...
The theory that makes the most sense to me is that Dagon got exactly what he wanted. Brought about ample destruction, rebellion, and change to the status quo, then went back home to savor his accomplishments. If he were to fully extend his power to Tamriel, he'd be in contention with every other Daedra who didn't appreciate his changes, as well as leaving the Dead Lands vulnerable to incursions. Mephala and Molag Bal wouldn't miss the opportunity to show their treachery and dominance respectively, Meridia would possibly take offense at the corruption of life and death, and Sheogorath would complicate everything. As it stands, he had a great holiday and doesn't need to deal with that. Also, Skyrim let's you visit Solstheim and fight Anduin, both products of Akatosh. A real god. Mankar is deluded.
Mankar's a rube being puppeted by Dagon. Even his rant is full of errors probably fed to him by Dagon as a joke. Mehrunes Dagon has never and will never care about any of his worshippers, a fact illustrated by the last mythic dawn cultist being the sacrifice required for him to give a shit about fixing his own artifact.
Mankar's rant being full of errors is because the oog author (MK) misattributed a couple of planes in what was an offhand introduction to his vision for the character and it wasnt noticed until after the game was released and it was too late/cumbersome to fix.
@@gourdlord3064 oh definitely, that being said I could also see Mankar as seeking to betray Dagon (taking possession of the Amulet and making himself Dragonborn gives him a means to expel Dagon and rule as Aldmeri King of Tamriel)
I played Oblivion and Skyrim at least a thousand hours each. Yet I know nothing of all this amazing lore because I'm always busy picking flowers and training alchemy. Edit: I got my current girlfriend to try Skyrim and after 10 minutes she went to the bathroom and vomited.
After this amazing video, logically the king of worms Mannimarco should come next! Thanks for these interesting pedias, especially the Elder Scrolls ones are great!
Funnily enough I was scrolling through TH-cam high when I saw this video and thought it was about Mannimarco and got excited, then super confused when I saw home boy wearing the amulet of kings in white clothes
What's fascinating about the mysterium xarxes is the fact it's a book of knowledge, but a Dagon artefact. This is because it's not JUST a book of secrets. It's a book of secrets that will show whoever holds it a fundamental truth of the world that will change them. Dagon's gimmick is the "Lord of destruction," but the scary fact is that he's, more importantly, the Lord of Change. That's why it's so important to protect yourself when you read it. Without having a magic VPN to disguise yourself from the book, it will insidiously worm its way into your mind and leave you a new man. That's what is interesting about Mankar's commentaries: they're not the secrets or knowledge of the book. They're the secrets and knowledge that defined Mankar as a person.
The mystery of power. It’s Chim. It’s a book that when read one figures out the ultimate truth that all existence is simply the dream of a god. To truly understand this makes you an awoken dreamer who is lucid and can warp reality as they see fit. However this truth is far too maddening to be truly understood and they become crazy powerful beings that are still mortal. When one truly understands Chim and accepts it they exist as a demigod like Vivec. If they refuse to accept they are merely a figment of a dream they cease to exist like the Dwemer. They were the most technologically advanced and intelligent race so much so they achieved Chim but believed they were more than a dream and basically collapsed in on themselves.
I remember playing Morrowind as a kid and having long talks during sleepovers about my thoughts on Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal, coming to a point where we began to question if we even did anything right by the end of Morrowind's quest. By Oblivion I had become somewhat frustrated that I couldn't cut the other way. It was weird always being a servant of the gods and of Akatosh. It felt like being used. I didn't agree with or accept the Knights of the Nine and so on. It would have been nice to let the world dissolve. Let it get taken. Choose "evil" once in a while. Just to see and just to get to the truth.
@liamsteam walsh Neither the heroes nor the villains achieved their goals in totality. The Hero of Cyrodil even becomes the next Sheogorath ending his/her's own being in the process.
The Et'Ada actually fled when they learned of Lorkhan's treachery. This is what created the stars in the Elder Scrolls because those are rips and tears into the realm of the Et'Ada which seep mana into creation. Oblivion is the space around Mundus which the Daedra were bound to as they were too weak to flee the space around Mundus, meanwhile the Aedra were too weak to leave Mundus and so punished Lhorkan.
Something to remember when talking about the difference between Aedra and Daedra is that one class committed power to the creation of mundus, and the other didn't. They are the same type of being regardless.
I mean, the Bosmer kind of suck. They're a bunch of degenerated elf cannibals who have one cool power that permanently leaves them as eldritch horrors if they ever use it.
@@Grumbaki the Wild Hunt. They shed their elven forms and turn into powerful unspeakable monsters in defense of Valenwood and the Green Pact during times of great peril. Problem is, a Bosmer that invokes the Wild Hunt will forever be the monster, it will never turn back. TES lore is always more badass than what they put on screen. Would you believe that TESIV era lore had Skyrim as a nation with many powerful wild magic users, with wondrous wind and ice magics unlike anywhere else, where random mercenaries had a decent chance of knowing at least a bit of the Thu'um? Imagine we got that shit instead of some old dudes on a mountain, a shitty harry potter school, and a handful of other guys who know how to shout? Bethesda literally makes every setting the games visit more boring for some reason.
@@ValdVincent my question is: why? I can understand the changes where something would be hard to implement in, but some of the changes look more like laziness. Not to mention the ones to make the game look more like a fantasy series popular at the time, like Oblivion drawing from Tolkien or Skyrim from Game of Thrones. They often explain it (like Nords becoming distrustful of magic after the Oblivion Crisis, or Tiber Septim changing Cyrodiil to a temperate forest) but explaining why you made a setting less cool _doesn't justify making it less cool in the first place._ Full stop. Cryodiil would have been cooler as a jungle with Ayleid ruins towering magically concealed everywhere than generic Tolkien land, and Skyrim would have been way cooler with a bunch of Scottish Viking wild mages rather than dirty Norwegians who act like every Norse fantasy stereotype in the book.
Also I know I’ve commented on this before, but an underrated villain? GANON FROM WIND WAKER. his character specifically in that game is so incredible and vastly different from any other game in the series and it’s a huge reason why I love wind waker so much
Hey man, just wanna say your channel has been a lifesaver for me. I got Covid a couple days ago and I've been binging the channel while struggling with the symptoms. I really like how easy your videos are to listen to, consistently super entertaining and I love learning all the tiny bits of lore I definitely missed playing through the games.
Nothing like a good Cult Leader. Also, loving your stuff. Literally just finished your Lich King video, and you have actually peaked my interest in WoW now. Thank you.
I never got to hear Mankar's final villian speach until today; I was a Khajiit assassin, and he was just so sweet and innocent and exposed on his widdle throne... how could I NOT put an arrow through his goofy face?! He died immediately... it was hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
I find it ironic that Mankar, an 'Altmer' elf, praises Lorkan and considers him one of the true Gods, but due to his actions empowers the Altmeri Dominion to vilify the Deadra more and suppress the worship of Lorkan/Talos
Mankar may not even have been Altmer. He's a Camoran; logically, he would have been a Bosmer. It's implied he used Mehrunes' Razor to essentially rewrite his race.
These videos remind me of the time me and my friend tried creating an elder scrolls lore bible in high school we spent half of our years there slowly working on it for it to go back to square one when Skyrim came out and changed the lore again
After getting back into elder scrolls lore, partially thanks to you, I love it. It’s so twisted and the way the universe works just makes slips and writing mistakes take on an air of legitimacy. Like lore mistakes are just retranslations of old knowledge since Nirn is dummy old. Love your content man, thanks for helping me digest more of these ideas.
I love finding TH-cam channels that are just literal gold free entertainment for me this shit is good from random person on the Internet you’ll never meet keep that shit rockin
There are also some interesting theories out there indicating he is infact an Ayleid. It is a well know fact that many Ayleids fled to Valenwood after Alessia's raid over Cyrodiil and many of these Ayleids that fled there blended in with the Bosmer and many even made into there higher ranks in Valenwood's societies like politics and even royalty. With that being said and the fact that Mankar's parents are high ranking Bosmers i think its possible that he is infact an Ayleid
Honestally, I would say Calypso, the Host of the Twisted Metal contest. There are so many variations of him and how the whole "Becareful what you wish for" plot twist is played throughout both TM:2, Head On, and 2012. But also juxtaposed by reality between the Colorful world Needles Kane (Sweet Tooth) sees and reality in he has crafted in his head through Twisted Metal : Black.
Mankar Cameron has always been an understated but solid villain, I think both he (and Martin) embody the conflict in Oblivion even more than Dagon. As for an underrated villain, how can I not mention Saren Arterius from the first Mass Effect? He's one of my favourite villains in a video game, would love to see you tackle him in the future!
After gods know how many playthroughs of Mass Effect, I've come to the thinking that Saren is actually an anti-villain, if only because his goals align with the Synthesis ending in 3. His methods were questionable, his intentions were to save the galaxy at the cost of humanity. Anti-villains are straight up some of the best written characters that exist because anyone you know could theoretically become an anti-villain.
Not a full blown villain per se, but I really grew to appreciate Daud from Dishonored, especially since we've got to experience his perspective on things
Honestly had to come back to rewatch this one, love your storytelling. Especially the four-arms line Mankar is oddly convincing. Even when you know he’s wrong.
I think it's more likely that Sovengard is Lorkhan's deadric realm. It wouldn't surprise me if even Mara, Akatosh, and Kynarath all have deadric realms that are missing their princes because they became the Earthbones.
I’ve only ever played Oblivion but I love watching general Elder Scrolls lore videos :) I know you go into more specific subjects than that but it makes me wish there was a group effort to make some sort of “Tamriel 101” History class. Love the different view of Deadra worship!
Mehrunes is the rightful owner of the previous culpa, Lyg. He was created to defeat Mola Bal. Now he feels entitled to the next culpa, in effect, a completely new reality that he never conquered. I.e. it's like Caesar reviving and thinking he still owns his old Empire. Different world, not his anymore, but he can't let go.
You got it a bit mixed up. Molag Bal is the previous kalpa's ruler. His carapace became The Ruddy Man whom Vivec struck down. Dagon was a compassionate demon/daedra who tried to save as much of the kalpa from destruction as he could, and was cursed by Alduin to his current form until he destroyed the last vestige of Lyg remaining in Nirn. He does not remember this, but still feels the need to destroy _something_ dwelling within Nirn.
All I can do is sit and wait in anticipation for TES6. The culmination of all these villains. Perhaps Mankar and Dagon in fact DID succeed. Maybe they did win in the end.
He would have been better if he was an ancient Ayleid king, it would at least make more sense with his final battle being in a pristine Ayleid throne room.
Anyone who can read the Mythic Dawn Commentaries and actually *understand* what it says deserves a gold star. That's some serious weapons-grade metaphysical weirdness.
Really wish Bethesda would stop re-releasing skyrim and just remaster Oblivion or Morrowind so we can enjoy those masterpieces again in a new refreshing manner. I’d love to play oblivion with update graphics instead of looking at the uncanny npcs and hear a npcs voice actor change mid dialogue. Just these little tweaks would be enough for me to buy a new release just to experience oblivion refined. (I play on console so i cant mod the npcs)
Excellent video! I find it interesting that many of the Daedra who seem like real jerks nonetheless often have a sort of indignation over how the Aedra treated Lorkhan or how their followers speak of him. Not only Mehrunes Dagon, but also Boethiah and maybe Azura as well. Maybe more. Are their any of the Divines who have a better attitude toward Lorkhan, who do not resent his actions or their role as earth bones or whatever they are called?
@@angelobarros3499 I know that Arkay is call the apologist of Men, so that would make sense. His rule of the cycle of life and death also would seem to make him likely to be in Lorkhan's corner. Thanks!
My personal belief on why Dagon started the oblivion crisis was not because he wanted to destroy Tamriel or because he wanted to take over Mundas, but because he wanted to liberate it. It is stated in the commentaries of the mysterium xarxes there was a previous version of Mundas called Lygg and it was ruled by dreughs which all worshipped Molag Bal and enslaved all the other races. Mehrunes Dagon was eventually created in the caverns of Lygg out of the remaining ambition, destruction, revolution, change and hope that was left in Oblivion, making those his spheres of influence. Dagon went on to lead the slaves in a revolt to overthrow the dreughs which was very successful, but he was a bit too effective and saw that they were trapped in Lorkhan's "mortal prison" so he tore down the towers of creation (the 8 towers, one in each province ex: white gold tower and the adamantine tower) that held the mortal realm intact and doing so destroyed Lygg and allowed the trapped mortals to ascend above being mortal. I personally believe Mehrunes Dagon intended to do this with Tamriel and free the mortals in this Mundas, but was stopped by the player character during Oblivion and with Alduin the world eater being sent forward in time and later on in Skyrim being either killed or "reset" the current Mundas has no forseeable end. tl;dr Mankar Camoran was right all along!
Dude, getting cursed with vampirism at lower level after doing the Grey princes quest was a beast. You needed a whole ton of supplies for the cure I wasn't sure where to get, like 5 Grand soulgems which were NOT easy to get early game with no money and the need to feed was tough because without a lot of lockpicks or lock picking experience (because again, early game/first play through) I ended up dying a ton in the sun until I finally found a sewer entrance. So here I am, sitting in a sewer during the day and feeding on homeless beggars because I have no lockpicks or enough stealth and they sleep outside and spending all my time trying to read books and find a cure and when I do I need a whole bunch of ingredients I can't get. It was really fun and imemersive, I felt like an outcast from society and I couldn't continue my playthrough until I was cured. Funny how things stick with you
My favorite underrated villain? The Lich from Enter the Gungeon. He was a gunslinger who invaded the gungeon for no apparent reason, overthrew the tyrant ruling it, and became one himself. Hell, he has bullets for eyes, and there's probably more explanation than I can find. Or Flying Cat in Battle Cats.
''Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire.'' I honestly believe that this excerpt from the commentaries of the Mysterium Xarxes showcase the change of Mankar Camoran into a dragonborn, and allowing him access to the mythical thu’um.
The reason Mankar is able to wear the Amulet is because he is part Ayleid and is thus so connected to The Chim-el Adabal, aka an Ayleid Relic, aka The Amulet of Kings itself. It is through his very blood that makes him by default and by right worthy of wearing the Amulet, moreso than all of the Septim Dynasty combined. It is also very deliberately stated in the first of Mankar's Mythic Dawn Commentaries that he carved himself with Mehrunes' Razor to begin his own ascension. In doing so, he also became Dragonborn, and learned how to speak The Thu'um: "Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire." Mankar Camoran is an Ayleid Dragonborn, and is more in the right than most antagonists I have ever seen. He is honestly, logically just the other side of the coin you reside on. He is just as much in the right in his convictions as you are in stopping him.
It's definitely the worst in the series lore wise but that's just because of how little there actually is of it and the mains tory itself is super basic excluding mankar camoran.
@plugshirt1762 Plucking stories to attempt to make a point? Already a great, totally not skewed argument 😆 🤣 Try this. You are: Morrowind - Mythical reincarnation setting history Skyrim - Legendary Dragonborn who theoretically has the power to battle Gods! All Gods and Deadric Lords vie for your attention Oblivion - A person who was nothing but became the Hero of Kvatch and catalyst for everything that happened; essentially forgotten when you became the Gray Fox (mask makes you essentially forgotten to History, meaning you becoming leader of Thieves Guild in Oblivion is Canon, when it's optional any other game) Less lore, huh? 😆 🤣 I get it's not flashy and you aren't OP AF, but it's not lacking in Lore
@@Yoder023 lol what? In morrowind you don’t have any magical powers and if you’re even the chosen one is up for debate as there have been multiple other “chosen ones” so it’s more likely that azure will just say the chosen one is whoever does what the prophecy says rather than the prophecy making it happen. Plus in oblivion you literally start the game as chosen one in a prophecy sounding know why you’re trying to act like it’s an exception. Theives guild isn’t canon it’s been stated that everything that happens in each guild is canon but not which ones the player are actually in. Literally nothing you mentioned was about lore lol. The only real lore oblivion explores excluding dlc is the ayleids and imperials with very little on anything else while morrowind fleshed out nearly everything in the lore. I don’t even get why you’re bothering to argue against this it’s not even debatable that morrowind did the most to flesh out the lore even fans of oblivion agree upon this.
As someone who wasn't really into video games and only played gta vc and sa as a young teen, it was daunting to me to pick up modern video games as a 27 year old. Then, during the pandemic, I found this game installed in an old laptop someone pawned to me.. it was a life saver. It made quarantine easy. Although I no longer play it, it has a great place in my heart.
Around 18:31 I began dozing off (I’m very tired) and I had a half conscious dream of being presented with Martin Septims own personal knife?? And I got so excited like “OMFG THE REAL SEPTIMS KNIFE??” That I woke myself up and immediately realized what happened
In a book called Racial Phylogeny it states that when larents of two differe races sire a child, the baby will take on the characteristics of the mother. This means that his mother could have been an Altmer while his father a bosmer.
Had a hilarious moment as i entered Cloud Ruler temple with Martin. I've been through it so many times, so as Jauffre was speaking and the Blades stood on ceremony, i cast frenzy on one of the Blades triggering all of them to attack me. Since Martin was still my follower, he threw himself between me and the Blades whereafter they proceeded to beat him senseless, knocking him out and leaving him unconscious on the ground. They then quietly got back into position as if nothing happened. I was in tears.
So you're telling me that merunes razor in Skyrim, the dagger that only has a tiny chance to insta kill. Has the power to actually do basically literally anything? Makes me wanna cry 🥲
Mankar’s line of thought on Nirn is much in the way of elvish belief, that Nirn is an incomplete reflection of the ultimate reality that is the Aurbis. The general spiritual goal of this philosophy is to achieve CHIM by realizing this and transcending Nirn. Obviously Mankar hasn’t achieved CHIM as he’s definitely nowhere near the level of the ALMSIVI, but I think he thinks he has. He sees himself owning his own little smidge of Oblivion as enlightenment, when in reality he was only given this realm as tool for summoning Mehrunes Dagon, who likely only sees him as a means to spread his destruction to Nirn. On a side note, I just realized that he’s voiced by Terrance Stamp, which is kinda funny since his only other video game role was the Prophet of Truth from Halo, another deluded cult leader.
One thing Morrowind did really well was give a reason to be into the Nine Divines cause the Imperial Cult is one of the big factions. Teleportation, spells, unique quest items and stuff, whereas in Oblivion there’s DLC (wouldn’t call Knights of the Nine a full blown expansion) for them, and in Skyrim there’s just necklaces and shrines you can make at home (in a dlc) and maybe a mention in a quest or two with Talos getting pretty much all of the attention cause of the civil war. I hope ES6 gives me a reason to make a Jauffre-esque priest or monk character.
Dagon was absolutely leading Mankar on, and told him nothing but lies. Dagon used to be the Leaper Demon King (LDK for short), and an uncountable number of Kalpa's ago he tried to prevent the death and rebirth of the world through the world eater by taking some of the land and hiding it away. When the world eater found out about this, he cursed him to never jump up and down and be merry until he found and destroyed this land. Unfortunately, due to interference by Meridia and Molag Bal, Dagon has no idea where it is; so he's been stuck as the Prince of Destruction until he can locate it, and unfortunately he's very stupid so he isn't having much luck. He undoubtedly wants dominion over Tamriel so that he can destroy the whole thing and just hope that he catches the right bit (tip: won't work, the land is currently Lyg, which is adjacent to Nirn). Once he finishes that, he may or may not be able to find the land, but it doesn't matter because step one failed anyway. If his plan had succeeded, Mankar wouldn't have found himself betrayed; he'd have found himself _abandoned_, which in my opinion would be far worse for him. Mankar would realise that he was never really a part of his plan in any real way, and was simply a tool used to achieve a goal that Mankar has no reason to care about either way; nor does anyone else, really, no one gives a shit about the LDK all he does is jump up and down and be merry.
I think Shor/Lorkahn is more Aedric than Daedric regardless if you believe him to be a trickster or creator. Because ofcourse the main deistinction between the Aedra and Deadra is if they contributed to creation. And while the Aedra poored much of their power into the world Shor litterally became one with Tamriel. His heart is/was a physical fixture in the world the only reason Vvardenfell exists is because of the heart. Even after its destruction it kinda lives on with the hearth stones which could animate the ash and resuerect the dead. The stones also seem to posesse incredible power on their own.
I still love how the "divide" between Aedra and Daedra is more arbitrary than anything. Lorkhan was not a Daedra, Lorkhan was et'Ada, just as the Daedra were and most likely still are. What the Daedra *are* is cowards. Immortal, timeless beings who were so afraid of losing infinity, that they live empty meaningless lives without the chance to better themselves. Lorkhan gave his power, his very life, to birth the mortal realm, while the Daedra merely watched. Simply defending the Mundus from Dagons immortal hordes is a testament to Lorkhans legacy, and the power of his vision.
I didn't play Diablo but I followed his lore and it is amazing. I'm sure it'll be an amazing villain to discuss here. But I'd really like to see Mannimarco too.
As someone whos spent more time on the elderscrolls wiki then id like to admit, along with making the mind bending mistake of trying to understand stuff like C0DA, I honestly think Mankar might have a point when he talks about the relationship of of Lorkan and the divines, and the deadra. Though I think he got plenty wrong, I do find it odd that out of every world that could have been, and already is, we are the only realm that took multiple god entities, when other deadric realms seem just as large, with their own full ecosystems, inhabitants, ect. I think there might be some truth to say that Lorkan works much like a deadric prince does to their own realm. To say he IS a deadra though seems false. I think theres alot more to the entire setup of the making of mundas, lorkan himself, and the current set of divines we have. I dont think its as cut and dry simple as some of the lore would make it out to be. Mundas seems like its way too special in the way it was made compared to the other realms, while not seeming like its all the special in many ways.
About Mankar wearing the Amulet of Kings: I could also simply be that the Camoran and Septims have some distant ancestry in common that neither one is talking about. I mean, just read "The Real Barenziah."
My headcanon is that Mankar is able to wear the amulet while in his "paradise" because the plane operates by his rules, and as such he can bypass the usual restrictions of the amulet. If true, it would mean that the moment he steps out into Tamriel, the amulet would simply slide off as usual. He wears it in his plane symbolically as the sign of what he believes to be his birthright, his way of communicating to the Champion of Kvatch that his own cause is justified, and theirs are not.
I agree with you that Lorkham is aedra...and just like the other Aedra he is dismembered and dormant. As the eight divines hold realms in the sky, the 8 wandering planets. So to does Lorkham, hold the remains of his body in orbit of Nirn, the moons.
Theres a little bit more of a reason for mortals to worship aedra, they are supposed to be our literal ancsetors, so its like siding with your great x100 grandpa right. The elfnofey were aerdric soirits that lost their immortality, the aedra are the ones that had just enough power to not die and have to breed to live on.
I suspect Nirn, Tamriel, or Dawn's Beauty really was a Daedric Realm. Lorkhan's project changed it forever into something else. Now, it is the wheel. The illusion that can enable a small spirit, that of a mortal, to become something greater.
Excellent video as always! I feel like a lot of people overlook Mankar as a villain. I would love to see you do a video on the Prophet of Truth or maybe even all 3 prophets from Halo 😇
I used to watch my brother play Oblivion when I was young because my mom wouldn't let me play rated m games myself so I've always held this extremely romanticized version of this game in my head that's lasted to this day. I always felt so jealous of my brother watching him play. The idea of living what is essentially another life was so dazzling to me. Now, everytime I play this game I get a childish joy and I don't care about how bugged it is or anything like that. I still love this game to my core. It is probably my favorite game of all time because of the nostalgic, pollyanna feeling it gives me. :)
My older brother showed me Oblivion as well. I remember he asked for my help deciding what house to buy. I was hooked the moment i saw him walking around in these massive cities with all these voiced characters
Before that all I had played was like Pokemon, runescape, and halo
I need a girlfriend like this, so I can force her to watch me play Skyrim.
Edit: I got my current girlfriend to try Skyrim and after 10 minutes she went to the bathroom and vomited.
@@MisogynyMan I hate to break it to you, but Skyrim got your girlfriend pregnant.
@@Gotz_the_iron_hand Jesus I was afraid of that too, her youknowwhats also got oversensitive and seemed to grow.
But no her period arrived at the usual schedule.
Thank god, no little Dragonborns running around yet.
Same. Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim have a unique charm to them few games can compete with. Nearly 20 years later I still think about quests and random encounters in Morrowind and Oblivion.
There's a popular community theory that Mankar Camoran changed his form to be that of an Ayleid. He is coded as an Altmer because the game has no Ayleid elf alternative, but the Ayleids looked very similar to the Altmer except for darker skin and features (which we see in Mankar).
Given the connections the Ayleids had to Daedra worship, and given how Mankars paradise looks very Ayleid design and is named Gaia Alata in their language, I think it's plausible that Mankar reforged his image to match the lost Ayleid race
and it would make some sense that they would be able to wear the amulet since the stone was created by them, being the stone of the white gold tower which they built.
But what was he originally?
@@EvelynNdenial he also used the knowledge within the Mysterium Xarxes to give himself the Dragonblood, which we know to be true and definitely would allow him to wear the amulet without any Ayleid connections. But yes I do like that link a lot :)
@@enermaxstephens1051 my best theory is that he was a Bosmer before he changed himself with the Razor. His backstory is that he was an illegitimate child of the Camoran dynasty of Valenwood, and whilst the validity of that is still up for debate, it's probably the most solid thing we have on him from before he became who he is now
@@enermaxstephens1051 I'd also add to that by saying that many of the Ayleids fled to Valenwood and sought sanctuary with the Bosmer once the humans took over Cyrodiil. There's definitely enough Ayleid history within Valenwood for a young Mankar to find kinship with
When I met Mankar, I had already beat the Shivering Isles. So I was Like "I think You find it's Lord Sheogorath, my good midwife!"
Mfw your brother didn’t tell his servant that Sheogorath is now plotting against them both: 👿
I'm laughing so hard, I can totally see Sheo only ever referring to Cameron as just Midwife.
That's when mankar realized the game was rigged from the start
"My god has four arms like Four-Arms in Ben 10."
- Mankar Camoran, Mythic Dawn Commentaries 3
"He doesn't even need the Watch, Hero! He's just Four-Arms all the time and it never runs out! Do you realize such magnitude of power!?"
"I fucking love Ben 10"
Dude I think he looks the most like trigon from teens titans
@@NoMaloneUnturned2Trigon only got two arms tho
@@spencermannan6075 yeah you are right
I love how Lorkhan is probably the single most magnanimous element of Elder Scrolls.
Find out how to create the material world with this one weird trick! Elves HATE him!
@@Ved000000
I mean, I'd hate Lorkhan too, given how he's depicted, and his actions aren't all that much better than some of the Mer he hates...
@@thalmoragent9344 Dude, you're everywhere! It's insane.
@@WretchedRedoran
*"As a Thalmor Justiciar, it is my responsibility to patrol and govern all Media to ensure no Talos Worship is taking place"*
He's basically the Loki of Elder Scrolls
Oh so Mankar is the creator of the mod Tamriel Reborn. I had no idea the mod was planned since day one all those years ago.
Do you mean Tamriel Rebuilt?
@@junsukee Shhhh, let us believe.
I've heart the theory that Dagon's plan was NEVER for the invasion to succeed, merely for the status quo to be changed irrevocably. Destroying the amulet of kings, and ending the Septim line would change the fate of the empire forever, exactly as Dagon wanted.
I believe it considering the shitstorm that came after. Plus the fact that Daegon is the prince of "change" he probably had a good time watching it all unfold knowing the world would be thrown in chaos.
This comment straight up just changed my outlook on Mehrunes. From "moron who tried to just solo all of mundus" to "Genuine calculated psychopath who wants to see the world burn"
Than consider changing it again, as Mehrunez Dragon is in essence a good prince, he was called forth to change mundus the same way he was created to liberate the slaves of Lyg from the slaver dreugh's. His intention isn't to dominate, like molag bal. His intention was to liberate it, liberate it from the aedra which usurped it from lorkhan and destroyed him. His intention was to bring back lorkhan to Finnish his dream. Mehrunez Dragon is the creator of liberty.@@hellzer6633
Terrence Stamp really gave his all performing as Mankar. I really appreciate voice actors who treat video game performances as seriously as any other medium.
"And now, kneel before Mankar Camoran!"
There is actually a book in game that explains that mankar cameron could breath fire out of his mouth, referencing that he must be dragonborn. Which is why he can wear the amulet. It comes off as a plot hole until you stumble upon the book within the game.
My favourite Mankar/Dagon theory is that Dagon never intended to "win" and take over Tamriel. His plan was to set in motion the beginning of the end for the seemingly impervious Empire. The plan was to feed an unstable upstart visions of grandeur and arm him with the tools to enact a rebellion. Mankar then had the royal bloodline assassinated and steal the amulet in order to flush out and contingency plan heirs and force their hand into a hail Mary of destroying the amulet of kings. Mankar (as you suggested) was a pawn. His cult was his own delusion all the way down to the torture etc. Ultimately Dagon won in my opinion
the thought that Mehrunes Dagon said that Lorkhan was actually a daedric prince who was betrayed and slaughtered, Kinda makes me think. Mehrunes isn't big on lying, and the thought of them being buddies, just like boethiah was buddies with lorkhan in the original myth, is kinda wholesome
to be fair, dagon doesn't have to lie for that to be wrong, since the idea canonically doesn't originate with him. basically it's something that dagon's cultists believe but he never actually said, and not bothering to correct a false narrative his cultists believe is in line with dagon's character
Mehrunez Dragon is a liberator, he is as padomaic as lorkhan was, which is seen with him liberating Lyg from the slaver dreugh's. His intention was likely to bring a new kalpa in which lorkhan could Finnish his creation without the likes of Auri-el stopping him.
The speech from Mankar Camoran in Paradise reminds me SO MUCH of the mission in Halo 2 where you're the Chief fighting your way through the Flood-infested High Charity chasing after the Prophets, while the Prophet of Truth makes his speech over the oud speaker. Mankar Camoran even kind of sounds like Truth from Halo 3.
yeah both characters are voiced by Terence Stamp which is cool (at least in Halo 3)
@@ItsSkytheGuy
"I am Mankar, the voice of the Mythic Dawn!"
"And so, you must be silenced."
@@phantomsanic3604 "For your destruction is the will of Dagon! And I am his instrument!"
Terrance Stamp voices both Mankar Camoran and The Prophet of Truth (Halo 3)
Its honestly funny how easily the lines would cross over from Halo 3
Mankar also apparently didnt do his research on Daedra, considering he couldn't match a single daedric prince to their actual plane of Oblivion.
"Meridia's Coldharbour" lmao
That was Kirkbride's error. He fucked up the plane attributions (which is odd considering he established who had what plane originally) and they didn't notice until after the game had shipped.
@@passingrando6457 to be fair iirc it was some sample writing they repurposed, not intended for use originally.
At first I thought Mankar was that deluded and crazy so he mixxed them up. But it was just an error.
Lol you fools Molag stole Coldharbour from Meridia. Fools.
I still really love the theory that Dagon actually won and got everything he wanted, the dragonfires were put out, the septim bloodline is gone, and the Thalmor were put into power
True, but he'll want to overthrow the Thalmor as well, if they get to a powerful state... he's not a permanent ally 😅
not really, the dragonbreak literally didn't happen so there's still an heir and also there's a few towers still standing. I think the adamantineis still standing and technically the white gold is although it did fall briefly in oblivion
@@wearecoterminous
White-Gold Tower is deactivated, the Amulet of Kings was its Stone and now it's gone so, it's just a Tower now with no power... same with the Crystal Tower, the Altmer rebuilt it but as far as we know it's deactivated now since the Stone may also have been removed/destroyed when it fell
@@thalmoragent9344 I thought the whole point of becoming an aspect of akatosh was to protect the white gold forever? So we still have the adamantine tower, the throat of the world because dragons showing up did literally sweet fuck all and nothing changed because of them. I think the anumidium being rebuilt technically counts if they used the heart/bones of lorkhan instead of like a dwemer artifact that uses tonal architech but that's sorta left up in the air, the quantum moon was a tower but the thalmor figured out how to manipulate it so that's probably gone. Hopefully we see the logical conclusion to all of this in the future. We're currently setup to get the coolest elder scrolls game yet but odds are they're going to completely ignore the cool plot that they set up and make it about fighting giant enemy emperor crabs and worthless local politics or something dumb instead of bringing us one step closer to c0da. By the way that dudes right you literally are everywhere
@@wearecoterminous
No, becoming an Aspect of Akatosh was the way to channel all the power of the Amulet of Kings and then use it to fight Dagon. After that, it was used up and Dagon was defeated.
White-Gold Tower still stands but no more Amulet, as in, no more Stone for the Tower to be considered actively affecting Nirn
Throat of the World or rather, Snow Throat "Lies sundered and Bleeding" due to the Civil War, so whether Alduin being tossed away through time or whatever sealed the deal on top of the mountain, well... who knows.
As far as I'm concerned, Adamantine Tower is the last, officially active one. May be some on Akavir, but other than that speculation, well...
The theory that makes the most sense to me is that Dagon got exactly what he wanted. Brought about ample destruction, rebellion, and change to the status quo, then went back home to savor his accomplishments. If he were to fully extend his power to Tamriel, he'd be in contention with every other Daedra who didn't appreciate his changes, as well as leaving the Dead Lands vulnerable to incursions. Mephala and Molag Bal wouldn't miss the opportunity to show their treachery and dominance respectively, Meridia would possibly take offense at the corruption of life and death, and Sheogorath would complicate everything. As it stands, he had a great holiday and doesn't need to deal with that.
Also, Skyrim let's you visit Solstheim and fight Anduin, both products of Akatosh. A real god. Mankar is deluded.
The ideal masters did similar things despite not being Gods, so not a solid argument
Mankar's a rube being puppeted by Dagon. Even his rant is full of errors probably fed to him by Dagon as a joke. Mehrunes Dagon has never and will never care about any of his worshippers, a fact illustrated by the last mythic dawn cultist being the sacrifice required for him to give a shit about fixing his own artifact.
Yep.
I dont knooooow, mundus being another plane is pretty concvincing
Mankar's rant being full of errors is because the oog author (MK) misattributed a couple of planes in what was an offhand introduction to his vision for the character and it wasnt noticed until after the game was released and it was too late/cumbersome to fix.
@@jedaye47 Interesting. I still like the idea that Dagon is playing him, though. Mistake or no it really adds to the story of Oblivion, in my opinion.
@@gourdlord3064 oh definitely, that being said I could also see Mankar as seeking to betray Dagon (taking possession of the Amulet and making himself Dragonborn gives him a means to expel Dagon and rule as Aldmeri King of Tamriel)
If you never played Oblivion, you are missing out.
By Azura! By Azura! By Azura!!!
I played Oblivion and Skyrim at least a thousand hours each.
Yet I know nothing of all this amazing lore because I'm always busy picking flowers and training alchemy.
Edit: I got my current girlfriend to try Skyrim and after 10 minutes she went to the bathroom and vomited.
I tried playing and almost threw up from the motion sickness.
@@vitocarlucci1114 I've heard others say the same
Bro! I was a huge fan of yours when I was a kid. And you are so right, this game is dank, danker than a wook at burning man
After this amazing video, logically the king of worms Mannimarco should come next!
Thanks for these interesting pedias, especially the Elder Scrolls ones are great!
He has a long history in the lore.
Mannimarco is a freaking cockroach that won’t stay dead so yeah he’d be a great choice
Funnily enough I was scrolling through TH-cam high when I saw this video and thought it was about Mannimarco and got excited, then super confused when I saw home boy wearing the amulet of kings in white clothes
What's fascinating about the mysterium xarxes is the fact it's a book of knowledge, but a Dagon artefact.
This is because it's not JUST a book of secrets. It's a book of secrets that will show whoever holds it a fundamental truth of the world that will change them. Dagon's gimmick is the "Lord of destruction," but the scary fact is that he's, more importantly, the Lord of Change.
That's why it's so important to protect yourself when you read it. Without having a magic VPN to disguise yourself from the book, it will insidiously worm its way into your mind and leave you a new man.
That's what is interesting about Mankar's commentaries: they're not the secrets or knowledge of the book. They're the secrets and knowledge that defined Mankar as a person.
Dagon is Tzeentch confirmed 😂
The mystery of power. It’s Chim. It’s a book that when read one figures out the ultimate truth that all existence is simply the dream of a god. To truly understand this makes you an awoken dreamer who is lucid and can warp reality as they see fit.
However this truth is far too maddening to be truly understood and they become crazy powerful beings that are still mortal.
When one truly understands Chim and accepts it they exist as a demigod like Vivec. If they refuse to accept they are merely a figment of a dream they cease to exist like the Dwemer. They were the most technologically advanced and intelligent race so much so they achieved Chim but believed they were more than a dream and basically collapsed in on themselves.
By Azura by Azura by Azura! It's another Villainpedia in TES universe!
Thank you Ghost I rly appreciate your videos.
There are 2 kinds of people.
Those who read your comments with the adoring fan voice
And those who lie
I read it in the adoring fans voice immediately
I remember playing Morrowind as a kid and having long talks during sleepovers about my thoughts on Dagoth Ur and the Tribunal, coming to a point where we began to question if we even did anything right by the end of Morrowind's quest.
By Oblivion I had become somewhat frustrated that I couldn't cut the other way. It was weird always being a servant of the gods and of Akatosh. It felt like being used. I didn't agree with or accept the Knights of the Nine and so on. It would have been nice to let the world dissolve. Let it get taken. Choose "evil" once in a while. Just to see and just to get to the truth.
@liamsteam walsh Neither the heroes nor the villains achieved their goals in totality. The Hero of Cyrodil even becomes the next Sheogorath ending his/her's own being in the process.
Maerunes Dagon isn't evil, destruction is a vital aspect of reality.
The Et'Ada actually fled when they learned of Lorkhan's treachery. This is what created the stars in the Elder Scrolls because those are rips and tears into the realm of the Et'Ada which seep mana into creation. Oblivion is the space around Mundus which the Daedra were bound to as they were too weak to flee the space around Mundus, meanwhile the Aedra were too weak to leave Mundus and so punished Lhorkan.
All of them were Et'Ada. The ones that fled and created the stars are referred to as the Magna Ge.
his speech sends me goosebumps everytime.
Something to remember when talking about the difference between Aedra and Daedra is that one class committed power to the creation of mundus, and the other didn't. They are the same type of being regardless.
And because of that, Daedra are immortal, Aedra are not.
most famous bosmer ever decides to change himself into altmer, really makes you think
I mean, the Bosmer kind of suck. They're a bunch of degenerated elf cannibals who have one cool power that permanently leaves them as eldritch horrors if they ever use it.
What power is that?
@@Grumbaki the Wild Hunt. They shed their elven forms and turn into powerful unspeakable monsters in defense of Valenwood and the Green Pact during times of great peril.
Problem is, a Bosmer that invokes the Wild Hunt will forever be the monster, it will never turn back.
TES lore is always more badass than what they put on screen. Would you believe that TESIV era lore had Skyrim as a nation with many powerful wild magic users, with wondrous wind and ice magics unlike anywhere else, where random mercenaries had a decent chance of knowing at least a bit of the Thu'um? Imagine we got that shit instead of some old dudes on a mountain, a shitty harry potter school, and a handful of other guys who know how to shout?
Bethesda literally makes every setting the games visit more boring for some reason.
@@passingrando6457 Minus morrowind, and most that lore is old lore from Daggerfall and Morrowind. They just copy and past the books from game to game.
@@ValdVincent my question is: why? I can understand the changes where something would be hard to implement in, but some of the changes look more like laziness. Not to mention the ones to make the game look more like a fantasy series popular at the time, like Oblivion drawing from Tolkien or Skyrim from Game of Thrones.
They often explain it (like Nords becoming distrustful of magic after the Oblivion Crisis, or Tiber Septim changing Cyrodiil to a temperate forest) but explaining why you made a setting less cool _doesn't justify making it less cool in the first place._
Full stop. Cryodiil would have been cooler as a jungle with Ayleid ruins towering magically concealed everywhere than generic Tolkien land, and Skyrim would have been way cooler with a bunch of Scottish Viking wild mages rather than dirty Norwegians who act like every Norse fantasy stereotype in the book.
Also I know I’ve commented on this before, but an underrated villain? GANON FROM WIND WAKER. his character specifically in that game is so incredible and vastly different from any other game in the series and it’s a huge reason why I love wind waker so much
Seeing a version of Ganon that's just... tired of it all hit home in a way I never expected to feel.
Hey man, just wanna say your channel has been a lifesaver for me. I got Covid a couple days ago and I've been binging the channel while struggling with the symptoms. I really like how easy your videos are to listen to, consistently super entertaining and I love learning all the tiny bits of lore I definitely missed playing through the games.
Thanks for the kind words. I hope you feel better soon buddy, I had covid for like 50 days back in 2020 so I know how much of a pain it can be. ❤️
Nothing like a good Cult Leader. Also, loving your stuff. Literally just finished your Lich King video, and you have actually peaked my interest in WoW now. Thank you.
wow is not like it used to be
@@udozocklein6023 nothing is, things change overtime. Grow up LMAO
@@zackhicks5320 why so stupid?
Where’s the person who was requesting this? I wanna see the smile on their face.
I can't believe that Sean Bean was the voice of Martin Septim in Oblivion. That's so cool.
I never got to hear Mankar's final villian speach until today; I was a Khajiit assassin, and he was just so sweet and innocent and exposed on his widdle throne... how could I NOT put an arrow through his goofy face?! He died immediately... it was hilarious 🤣🤣🤣
I find it ironic that Mankar, an 'Altmer' elf, praises Lorkan and considers him one of the true Gods, but due to his actions empowers the Altmeri Dominion to vilify the Deadra more and suppress the worship of Lorkan/Talos
Mankar may not even have been Altmer. He's a Camoran; logically, he would have been a Bosmer. It's implied he used Mehrunes' Razor to essentially rewrite his race.
@@LordMortanius Ah, thanks for the info. Elder Scrolls lore is a bit too dense for my liking at times.
Darth Treya from Knights of the Old Republic 2 is a amazing villain that really helps bring Grey into the world of Star Wars
These videos remind me of the time me and my friend tried creating an elder scrolls lore bible in high school we spent half of our years there slowly working on it for it to go back to square one when Skyrim came out and changed the lore again
After getting back into elder scrolls lore, partially thanks to you, I love it. It’s so twisted and the way the universe works just makes slips and writing mistakes take on an air of legitimacy. Like lore mistakes are just retranslations of old knowledge since Nirn is dummy old. Love your content man, thanks for helping me digest more of these ideas.
I love finding TH-cam channels that are just literal gold free entertainment for me this shit is good from random person on the Internet you’ll never meet keep that shit rockin
Bro, the quality of your videos are just getting better and better! Keep up the good work!
There are also some interesting theories out there indicating he is infact an Ayleid. It is a well know fact that many Ayleids fled to Valenwood after Alessia's raid over Cyrodiil and many of these Ayleids that fled there blended in with the Bosmer and many even made into there higher ranks in Valenwood's societies like politics and even royalty.
With that being said and the fact that Mankar's parents are high ranking Bosmers i think its possible that he is infact an Ayleid
Your content has a great balance of academic elbow-grease and down-to-earthness that I appreciate.
Honestally, I would say Calypso, the Host of the Twisted Metal contest. There are so many variations of him and how the whole "Becareful what you wish for" plot twist is played throughout both TM:2, Head On, and 2012. But also juxtaposed by reality between the Colorful world Needles Kane (Sweet Tooth) sees and reality in he has crafted in his head through Twisted Metal : Black.
Dude that would be awesome
Honestally?
Mankar Cameron has always been an understated but solid villain, I think both he (and Martin) embody the conflict in Oblivion even more than Dagon.
As for an underrated villain, how can I not mention Saren Arterius from the first Mass Effect? He's one of my favourite villains in a video game, would love to see you tackle him in the future!
After gods know how many playthroughs of Mass Effect, I've come to the thinking that Saren is actually an anti-villain, if only because his goals align with the Synthesis ending in 3. His methods were questionable, his intentions were to save the galaxy at the cost of humanity. Anti-villains are straight up some of the best written characters that exist because anyone you know could theoretically become an anti-villain.
Not a full blown villain per se, but I really grew to appreciate Daud from Dishonored, especially since we've got to experience his perspective on things
Honestly had to come back to rewatch this one, love your storytelling. Especially the four-arms line
Mankar is oddly convincing. Even when you know he’s wrong.
I would love to see a Villainpedia for Mannimarco: King of Worms!
I think it's more likely that Sovengard is Lorkhan's deadric realm. It wouldn't surprise me if even Mara, Akatosh, and Kynarath all have deadric realms that are missing their princes because they became the Earthbones.
Aedric realm
He essentially is the main villain the entire plot doesn’t work without him and your character doesn’t ever fight Dagon
I’ve never clicked on a video faster
I’ve only ever played Oblivion but I love watching general Elder Scrolls lore videos :) I know you go into more specific subjects than that but it makes me wish there was a group effort to make some sort of “Tamriel 101” History class. Love the different view of Deadra worship!
Molag Bal, Mannimarco and Mankar Camoron are probably my favorite Elder Scrolls villains. Dagoth Ur is pretty intruiging as well.
If you like Molag Bal, play VIGILANT. The best depiction of the character to date.
Mankar Cameron is just a good guy. Leader, inspiration, visionary. A place in his organization means upward mobility, and respect.
Mehrunes is the rightful owner of the previous culpa, Lyg.
He was created to defeat Mola Bal.
Now he feels entitled to the next culpa, in effect, a completely new reality that he never conquered.
I.e. it's like Caesar reviving and thinking he still owns his old Empire.
Different world, not his anymore, but he can't let go.
You got it a bit mixed up. Molag Bal is the previous kalpa's ruler. His carapace became The Ruddy Man whom Vivec struck down.
Dagon was a compassionate demon/daedra who tried to save as much of the kalpa from destruction as he could, and was cursed by Alduin to his current form until he destroyed the last vestige of Lyg remaining in Nirn. He does not remember this, but still feels the need to destroy _something_ dwelling within Nirn.
“Now, this is a very evil and stinky book-“
-Professor Ghostcharm, Villians 101
"not the big bad you're gearing up to kill in the final act"
*Me, looking at Dagon*
*Looks at my sword*
*Looks back at Dagon*
"Nope."
Nice stuff:) How about Mannimarco next? Harkon would be nice as well.
All I can do is sit and wait in anticipation for TES6. The culmination of all these villains. Perhaps Mankar and Dagon in fact DID succeed. Maybe they did win in the end.
He would have been better if he was an ancient Ayleid king, it would at least make more sense with his final battle being in a pristine Ayleid throne room.
They already had that plot line with the nine divines DLC
Anyone who can read the Mythic Dawn Commentaries and actually *understand* what it says deserves a gold star. That's some serious weapons-grade metaphysical weirdness.
Really wish Bethesda would stop re-releasing skyrim and just remaster Oblivion or Morrowind so we can enjoy those masterpieces again in a new refreshing manner. I’d love to play oblivion with update graphics instead of looking at the uncanny npcs and hear a npcs voice actor change mid dialogue. Just these little tweaks would be enough for me to buy a new release just to experience oblivion refined. (I play on console so i cant mod the npcs)
Excellent video! I find it interesting that many of the Daedra who seem like real jerks nonetheless often have a sort of indignation over how the Aedra treated Lorkhan or how their followers speak of him. Not only Mehrunes Dagon, but also Boethiah and maybe Azura as well. Maybe more. Are their any of the Divines who have a better attitude toward Lorkhan, who do not resent his actions or their role as earth bones or whatever they are called?
Xerxes (Arkay in Cyrodiilic) is usually referred to as Lorkhan's apologist
@@angelobarros3499 I know that Arkay is call the apologist of Men, so that would make sense. His rule of the cycle of life and death also would seem to make him likely to be in Lorkhan's corner. Thanks!
My personal belief on why Dagon started the oblivion crisis was not because he wanted to destroy Tamriel or because he wanted to take over Mundas, but because he wanted to liberate it. It is stated in the commentaries of the mysterium xarxes there was a previous version of Mundas called Lygg and it was ruled by dreughs which all worshipped Molag Bal and enslaved all the other races. Mehrunes Dagon was eventually created in the caverns of Lygg out of the remaining ambition, destruction, revolution, change and hope that was left in Oblivion, making those his spheres of influence. Dagon went on to lead the slaves in a revolt to overthrow the dreughs which was very successful, but he was a bit too effective and saw that they were trapped in Lorkhan's "mortal prison" so he tore down the towers of creation (the 8 towers, one in each province ex: white gold tower and the adamantine tower) that held the mortal realm intact and doing so destroyed Lygg and allowed the trapped mortals to ascend above being mortal. I personally believe Mehrunes Dagon intended to do this with Tamriel and free the mortals in this Mundas, but was stopped by the player character during Oblivion and with Alduin the world eater being sent forward in time and later on in Skyrim being either killed or "reset" the current Mundas has no forseeable end. tl;dr Mankar Camoran was right all along!
no fucking way
good to see you here brother
Congratulation, Welcome to Paradise Brother.
Your vids are underrated. Great work. Keep it up. This is the beginnings of a huge channel
Could you do a Villainpedia- episode on Mannimarco next?
He's one of my favorite baddies in the franchise XD
Dude, getting cursed with vampirism at lower level after doing the Grey princes quest was a beast.
You needed a whole ton of supplies for the cure I wasn't sure where to get, like 5 Grand soulgems which were NOT easy to get early game with no money and the need to feed was tough because without a lot of lockpicks or lock picking experience (because again, early game/first play through) I ended up dying a ton in the sun until I finally found a sewer entrance.
So here I am, sitting in a sewer during the day and feeding on homeless beggars because I have no lockpicks or enough stealth and they sleep outside and spending all my time trying to read books and find a cure and when I do I need a whole bunch of ingredients I can't get.
It was really fun and imemersive, I felt like an outcast from society and I couldn't continue my playthrough until I was cured. Funny how things stick with you
My favorite underrated villain? The Lich from Enter the Gungeon. He was a gunslinger who invaded the gungeon for no apparent reason, overthrew the tyrant ruling it, and became one himself. Hell, he has bullets for eyes, and there's probably more explanation than I can find.
Or Flying Cat in Battle Cats.
''Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire.'' I honestly believe that this excerpt from the commentaries of the Mysterium Xarxes showcase the change of Mankar Camoran into a dragonborn, and allowing him access to the mythical thu’um.
The reason Mankar is able to wear the Amulet is because he is part Ayleid and is thus so connected to The Chim-el Adabal, aka an Ayleid Relic, aka The Amulet of Kings itself. It is through his very blood that makes him by default and by right worthy of wearing the Amulet, moreso than all of the Septim Dynasty combined. It is also very deliberately stated in the first of Mankar's Mythic Dawn Commentaries that he carved himself with Mehrunes' Razor to begin his own ascension. In doing so, he also became Dragonborn, and learned how to speak The Thu'um:
"Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire."
Mankar Camoran is an Ayleid Dragonborn, and is more in the right than most antagonists I have ever seen. He is honestly, logically just the other side of the coin you reside on. He is just as much in the right in his convictions as you are in stopping him.
So when you will do pelinal?
"You wanna get into Valenwood, right? Well then, Valenwood's gotta get into YOU..."
- Mankar Camoran, 3rd Era (probably)
I'm glad SOMEONE is giving the Oblivion Lore the light and respect it has
So many say "it's shallow"
It's definitely the worst in the series lore wise but that's just because of how little there actually is of it and the mains tory itself is super basic excluding mankar camoran.
@plugshirt1762
Plucking stories to attempt to make a point? Already a great, totally not skewed argument 😆 🤣
Try this. You are:
Morrowind - Mythical reincarnation setting history
Skyrim - Legendary Dragonborn who theoretically has the power to battle Gods! All Gods and Deadric Lords vie for your attention
Oblivion - A person who was nothing but became the Hero of Kvatch and catalyst for everything that happened; essentially forgotten when you became the Gray Fox (mask makes you essentially forgotten to History, meaning you becoming leader of Thieves Guild in Oblivion is Canon, when it's optional any other game)
Less lore, huh? 😆 🤣
I get it's not flashy and you aren't OP AF, but it's not lacking in Lore
@@Yoder023 lol what? In morrowind you don’t have any magical powers and if you’re even the chosen one is up for debate as there have been multiple other “chosen ones” so it’s more likely that azure will just say the chosen one is whoever does what the prophecy says rather than the prophecy making it happen. Plus in oblivion you literally start the game as chosen one in a prophecy sounding know why you’re trying to act like it’s an exception.
Theives guild isn’t canon it’s been stated that everything that happens in each guild is canon but not which ones the player are actually in.
Literally nothing you mentioned was about lore lol. The only real lore oblivion explores excluding dlc is the ayleids and imperials with very little on anything else while morrowind fleshed out nearly everything in the lore. I don’t even get why you’re bothering to argue against this it’s not even debatable that morrowind did the most to flesh out the lore even fans of oblivion agree upon this.
@plugshirt1762
There's literally an epic God fight and you say "there's no lore"
😆
This is why I don't talk to you, other than small sentences
@@Yoder023 do you know what lore is lol? I really don’t think you know what the word means if you think that has anything to do with lore seeing
As someone who wasn't really into video games and only played gta vc and sa as a young teen, it was daunting to me to pick up modern video games as a 27 year old. Then, during the pandemic, I found this game installed in an old laptop someone pawned to me.. it was a life saver. It made quarantine easy.
Although I no longer play it, it has a great place in my heart.
Around 18:31 I began dozing off (I’m very tired) and I had a half conscious dream of being presented with Martin Septims own personal knife?? And I got so excited like “OMFG THE REAL SEPTIMS KNIFE??” That I woke myself up and immediately realized what happened
In a book called Racial Phylogeny it states that when larents of two differe races sire a child, the baby will take on the characteristics of the mother. This means that his mother could have been an Altmer while his father a bosmer.
Had a hilarious moment as i entered Cloud Ruler temple with Martin. I've been through it so many times, so as Jauffre was speaking and the Blades stood on ceremony, i cast frenzy on one of the Blades triggering all of them to attack me. Since Martin was still my follower, he threw himself between me and the Blades whereafter they proceeded to beat him senseless, knocking him out and leaving him unconscious on the ground. They then quietly got back into position as if nothing happened. I was in tears.
So you're telling me that merunes razor in Skyrim, the dagger that only has a tiny chance to insta kill. Has the power to actually do basically literally anything? Makes me wanna cry 🥲
Mankar’s line of thought on Nirn is much in the way of elvish belief, that Nirn is an incomplete reflection of the ultimate reality that is the Aurbis. The general spiritual goal of this philosophy is to achieve CHIM by realizing this and transcending Nirn. Obviously Mankar hasn’t achieved CHIM as he’s definitely nowhere near the level of the ALMSIVI, but I think he thinks he has. He sees himself owning his own little smidge of Oblivion as enlightenment, when in reality he was only given this realm as tool for summoning Mehrunes Dagon, who likely only sees him as a means to spread his destruction to Nirn.
On a side note, I just realized that he’s voiced by Terrance Stamp, which is kinda funny since his only other video game role was the Prophet of Truth from Halo, another deluded cult leader.
Jack of blades from the fable games is an amazing villain
I agree. He’s got a video I made on him as well. Thanks buddy
One thing Morrowind did really well was give a reason to be into the Nine Divines cause the Imperial Cult is one of the big factions. Teleportation, spells, unique quest items and stuff, whereas in Oblivion there’s DLC (wouldn’t call Knights of the Nine a full blown expansion) for them, and in Skyrim there’s just necklaces and shrines you can make at home (in a dlc) and maybe a mention in a quest or two with Talos getting pretty much all of the attention cause of the civil war. I hope ES6 gives me a reason to make a Jauffre-esque priest or monk character.
Dagon was absolutely leading Mankar on, and told him nothing but lies. Dagon used to be the Leaper Demon King (LDK for short), and an uncountable number of Kalpa's ago he tried to prevent the death and rebirth of the world through the world eater by taking some of the land and hiding it away. When the world eater found out about this, he cursed him to never jump up and down and be merry until he found and destroyed this land. Unfortunately, due to interference by Meridia and Molag Bal, Dagon has no idea where it is; so he's been stuck as the Prince of Destruction until he can locate it, and unfortunately he's very stupid so he isn't having much luck.
He undoubtedly wants dominion over Tamriel so that he can destroy the whole thing and just hope that he catches the right bit (tip: won't work, the land is currently Lyg, which is adjacent to Nirn). Once he finishes that, he may or may not be able to find the land, but it doesn't matter because step one failed anyway.
If his plan had succeeded, Mankar wouldn't have found himself betrayed; he'd have found himself _abandoned_, which in my opinion would be far worse for him. Mankar would realise that he was never really a part of his plan in any real way, and was simply a tool used to achieve a goal that Mankar has no reason to care about either way; nor does anyone else, really, no one gives a shit about the LDK all he does is jump up and down and be merry.
I think Shor/Lorkahn is more Aedric than Daedric regardless if you believe him to be a trickster or creator. Because ofcourse the main deistinction between the Aedra and Deadra is if they contributed to creation.
And while the Aedra poored much of their power into the world Shor litterally became one with Tamriel. His heart is/was a physical fixture in the world the only reason Vvardenfell exists is because of the heart. Even after its destruction it kinda lives on with the hearth stones which could animate the ash and resuerect the dead. The stones also seem to posesse incredible power on their own.
I like to jokingly tell people that the Adoring Fan is the Bosmer part of Mankar cut off with Mehrunes’ Razor
I still love how the "divide" between Aedra and Daedra is more arbitrary than anything. Lorkhan was not a Daedra, Lorkhan was et'Ada, just as the Daedra were and most likely still are. What the Daedra *are* is cowards. Immortal, timeless beings who were so afraid of losing infinity, that they live empty meaningless lives without the chance to better themselves. Lorkhan gave his power, his very life, to birth the mortal realm, while the Daedra merely watched. Simply defending the Mundus from Dagons immortal hordes is a testament to Lorkhans legacy, and the power of his vision.
Ah, Dragon Breaks. AKA: When time goes 'oops' in this series.
Mankar Cameron was actually my first major/ secondary antagonist to go against in an RPG.
When I met Mankar, I didn’t wait for him to stop talking before I started attacking him. Unfortunately, my character died to his lightning 😅
18:58 cracked me up because I do the same thing when The Blades salute with their swords
I didn't play Diablo but I followed his lore and it is amazing. I'm sure it'll be an amazing villain to discuss here. But I'd really like to see Mannimarco too.
As someone whos spent more time on the elderscrolls wiki then id like to admit, along with making the mind bending mistake of trying to understand stuff like C0DA, I honestly think Mankar might have a point when he talks about the relationship of of Lorkan and the divines, and the deadra. Though I think he got plenty wrong, I do find it odd that out of every world that could have been, and already is, we are the only realm that took multiple god entities, when other deadric realms seem just as large, with their own full ecosystems, inhabitants, ect. I think there might be some truth to say that Lorkan works much like a deadric prince does to their own realm. To say he IS a deadra though seems false. I think theres alot more to the entire setup of the making of mundas, lorkan himself, and the current set of divines we have. I dont think its as cut and dry simple as some of the lore would make it out to be. Mundas seems like its way too special in the way it was made compared to the other realms, while not seeming like its all the special in many ways.
About Mankar wearing the Amulet of Kings: I could also simply be that the Camoran and Septims have some distant ancestry in common that neither one is talking about. I mean, just read "The Real Barenziah."
For me an underrated, (and unrecognized), villain in a story is Gherman, the First Hunter from Bloodborne.
My headcanon is that Mankar is able to wear the amulet while in his "paradise" because the plane operates by his rules, and as such he can bypass the usual restrictions of the amulet. If true, it would mean that the moment he steps out into Tamriel, the amulet would simply slide off as usual. He wears it in his plane symbolically as the sign of what he believes to be his birthright, his way of communicating to the Champion of Kvatch that his own cause is justified, and theirs are not.
I agree with you that Lorkham is aedra...and just like the other Aedra he is dismembered and dormant. As the eight divines hold realms in the sky, the 8 wandering planets. So to does Lorkham, hold the remains of his body in orbit of Nirn, the moons.
I just noticed how alike Martin and Uriel look. How was he able to be incognito the whole time when he looks like a young Uriel?
Theres a little bit more of a reason for mortals to worship aedra, they are supposed to be our literal ancsetors, so its like siding with your great x100 grandpa right. The elfnofey were aerdric soirits that lost their immortality, the aedra are the ones that had just enough power to not die and have to breed to live on.
I suspect Nirn, Tamriel, or Dawn's Beauty really was a Daedric Realm. Lorkhan's project changed it forever into something else. Now, it is the wheel. The illusion that can enable a small spirit, that of a mortal, to become something greater.
Truely a divine gift! Thank you!
27:03 it could also be that it is not the true neklace but one that he put on himself using the razor
31:39 the ebony warrior in skyrim & oblivion the most because. I really like that guy in skyrim.
for the end question: Kuben Blisk from Titanfall 2
Excellent video as always! I feel like a lot of people overlook Mankar as a villain. I would love to see you do a video on the Prophet of Truth or maybe even all 3 prophets from Halo 😇
Mankar Camoran? Honestly, I wouldn't have thought a single person on this planet could ask about lore for this sad excuse of a villain...