Very useful as usual Blake. I personally use TIFF most of the time, if my file size goes higher than 4GB (which is the limit for TIFF) that is when I use PSB. I rarely ever use PSD. Keep up the great videos, I've learned to much through your channel.
Epic video brother, so helpful and easy to understand, I was only able to do the thumbs up once but here is another 2 just for good measure 👍👍 Can’t wait for the next video
Hey Blake, what about DNG? When I export to another application from Photolab 5, it asks me if I want to use TIFF or DNG. I want to continue editing for example in Photoshop or Exposure 7. Which should I use... the TIFF export or the DNG export? Thanks
Thank you for covering this Blake! BTW: how long did it take you to memorise all the acronyms for the video? lol. I would have gotten so tongue tied repeating them. 🤪 All kidding aside, I'm happy to finally have a better understanding of the difference between saving as a TIFF vs PSD
I know this is off topic but have you considered making a video about computer requirements for working with Lightroom Classic and Photoshop 2021? I'm looking to upgrade my 3-year old Windows PC, which seems to be getting slower and slower (typically taking over a minute to transfer an A7R III file from Lr for editing in Ps), and need some advice on minimum hardware requirements.
For large files, man, its hard. I built a machine that could last me until 2028, easily, but Photoshop also can't exceed its own limitations either. I would say at a minimum, a 6 Gig graphics card as PS is getting more and more graphicly intense with every release. For the Ram, I'd say at least 32 gigs of ram so you can allocate 80% of it to PS while you are working. Nothing less than an i7 processor for speed as well. I built a beast and while it can handle a million processes at once, Photoshop is still often very slow with heavy layered documents on a7r III files.
@@f64Academy I didn't really expect a reply, so thanks very much, Blake. I already have an i7 and 32 GB of RAM but graphics cards are very hard to come by here in the UK at the moment, so I'm biding my time. Cheers.
Hey Blake, if have an image saved as a PDF but want it now to be a PSD, I couldn't just go into Photoshop and do that correct? I would have to open it as RAW then save as a PSD yes? Thanx, great video!
In your diagram you indicate a maximum bit depth of 8 bit for jpg file. I assume you mean per channel so a maximum of 24 bits combined just as png. A gif has a maximum of 8 bit.
Swear to god I was sweating bout this topic yesterday. So quick question - my work flow starts from Lr to Ps and back to Lr. When I hit Cmnd+Shift+W when I’m done working on an image in Ps, it automatically save it as tiff file and makes it ready for me to play with it in Lr. Is this tiff file layered or non layered version? Also, can Lr read PSD file?
@@pankajpaneru6542 yes, lightroom can read psd files, both with layers and without, IF they were saved in compatibility mode. Unfortunately I don't know what side effects it has on the file size
Good video. So dumb question here. You mention a PSD codec for windows. I did not know there was such a thing. Is there? If so where do you get it? Thanks
You mentioned something about PSD codecs for PSD files; I have a Win 10 PC but can't see any previews of PSD files, jpeg and raw files preview OK - is there something that I need to download / install to get PSD previews / thumbnails & where would I get it from ?
If you're working with adobe colour, in your camera and when processing in Raw does using PSD keep the adobe colour flow better rather than putting it in a TIFF file?
Great Video! What about saving your TIFF image as a LZW image compression. I had to use this for printing banner size images to help with the process, what do you think?
As a printer, I advise my clients to save as a TIFF with LZW compression. LZW stands for Lipple, Ziff and White the engineers who compiled this lossless compression scheme. It’s lossless. It compresses the file. LZW created this scheme. And for prints, please flatten your files. Otherwise all of your layers are there if you want or need them.
You should use File->Export to save a JPEG or PNG not Save As. It doesn't flatten the file then so you can later save as PSD. However that can cause problems with scaling layer styles so it is wise to create a stamp visible layer first.
Good explanation Blake. One more thing, with having a Canon camera and uploading .cr2 raw files, my question is the possible dropping of this format. Is .dns file format a safer alternative and can it be converted in camera, prior to uploading or converted after uploading? Or should I just forget it, I have over "10,000" image's and hate to think I could loose them because of a manufacturing change.
One can obviously use a jpeg to make a print but IMHO jpeg should be used only for the the Web, especially if you are saving it with an sRGB profile. The risk is to great especially with a print to have squashed colors, banding and probably other artifacts as well. Because the format is not lost less one should always go back to a lost less format to make edits and then create a new jpeg. My philosophy about all of this is to keep as much info as you can (layers, 16 bits or more) in your originals as every tiny bit of detail is important especially for a print. If you don't print, then jpeg is fine most of the time, except for originals of course. Thanks for the video, very well presented.
Thanks, and very true. My point on printing for jpeg is that's often what many online companies use to print your work from. From my PC I usually just print from the PSD when I'm finished which is true 16 bit, but I've also tested the 16 bit print next to a flattened and converted jpeg and there was no recognizable difference.
@@f64Academy I agree that most of the time using jpeg (8 bit) wont cause any "visible" problem but sometime Murphy's law will prevail and you'll ruin an $ 100 print. Because of that I don't take any chance and I always print from a 16 bit file. Just a thought, 16 bit driver are almost always an option and not the default, maybe that could explain some of the results one gets. Your right as well about printing shop, very few will offer to print on some photo rag paper from say Hahnemuehle or Canson.
Why haven't you checked ZIP in image compression, that would have made the file even smaller than a PSD, for me personally now and after many tests, TIFF is my way to go when saving files from photoshop as they are a big space saver plus they have a preview, which is very helpful.
If you've got text, you are better off with a PNG. I save my layers as TIFF because I don't like opening up Bridge or some other software to see what the PSD has.
Great video and good explanation. Question: I want to sell my images on a website.via Lightroom. What file type do I send/save my images as? Thanks much, Richard
Before I save my PhotoShop work, I check the file size because more than once I have had the wonderful wait for file save only to be told the file is more than 2 GB (due to AR2 and AR3 uncompressed raw images). I use the Lightroom catalog for maintenance quick viewing of the PSD/PSB files including doing jpeg exports for web. I also run the jpegs through a jpeg compression utility - some of my jpegs are over 20 Meg and compression helps to get them down to around 12 Meg. What about dng file format? I save over one TB annually by converting my Sony uncompressed raw files into lossless compressed raw files. I sadly learned the hard way to never ever trust Sony's lossy compressed raw. :( I use Adobe's DNG Converter with Medium Size jpeg preview, don't embed fast load data, don't use lossy compression, preserve pixel count, and don't embed original. Only way to get in-camera lossless compressed raw files in a Sony camera is to purchase the A1 -- that would buy me a LOT of storage. :p
I don't use Sony uncompressed Raw and I've never really had a problem with my Raw files. I also don't convert to DNG because the space is not an issue for me with the Sony compressed files. Personal preference in that department for sure!
@@f64Academy I think the general public using Facebook etc tends to save with high compression and small file sizes! my jpegs from Ps are always set at the highest quality and like you say I don't notice anything.
I've always wondered about this: Does the color space has a significant contribution to the file size? I typically work in ProPhoto and save the "archival" file (in TIFF 16bit) with this color space, and then convert the whole thing to Adobe1998 with flattening the image and of course to 8bit and then save as JPG. It looks like sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't - though my logic tells me that it shouldn't because as i understand it, color space is just a mathematical "road map" on how to read colors and not extra data added, or is it?
That would be a good experiment for sure. It may. I tend to stay in Adobe RGB and not sway too far in or outside of it. May want to experiment with that one and see.
@@f64Academy Once you work with ProPhoto, you will like it. It can save you some time on enhancing colors or adding vivacity to the image. If you have an image in Adobe or sRGB just "assign" the color space to ProPhoto ... when you finish, "convert" back to Adobe. Sometimes, assigning (or as I like to call it sometimes: Shifting" the color space to ProPhoto is just about enough to have vibrant image!
As a printer, I would advise to just use Adobe RGB IF you intend to print. Professional printers are typically viewing or editing in Adobe RGB 1998, their monitors “see” Adobe RGB 1998 (expensive monitors) and their printers, PRINT in the Adobe RGB color space. ProPhoto may add vibrance for monitor viewing but throws Prints totally out of whack.
when you're about print a multilayered *.PSB file do you flatten it then save as Tiff? If a PSD/PSB file is an adobe proprietary version of a tiff is there much difference?
I don't flatten it if I'm promoting from home, never saw a major difference. Psd isn't really an Adobe proprietary Tiff it's there for to handle layered documents.
If you know of a print house that prints a 16bit file, I'm all ears, other wise, 99% of them convert it to an 8bit file. Do you lose the data in the conversion process? I'm not sure.
@@f64Academy It would be interesting to see a same photo, same printed at 8bit and if they print at 16bit, and compare. It would also be good if the image being printed had very good dynamic range.
@@f64Academy I talked to Image Wizard, they have changed there name to Vivid-Metal-Prints, They use Epson Printers with a RIP software program, which rasterizes your image to a supposed sophisticated 8bit file. Food for thought.
same thing usually. Save as is a direct save from the settings in Photoshop, export gives you a few options. I traditionally use only Save As... habit I guess.
It depends on what the print company takes. My own printing, I just go straight from the PSD so I can manage any layers individually to get the print right.
@@f64Academy I recently put on an exhibition of 47 portrait images printed A2. My printer likes their images provided as a PDF, which was fine as they gave me the spex they require for the files. I was very nervous about the quality of the images in the beginning, as they also wanted what to me was an extraordinarily small file size, but they came up great (whew).
The intro is scary man! Who has all these juicy layers, before they start saving them, and finally make a save file. 😂😱
Very useful as usual Blake. I personally use TIFF most of the time, if my file size goes higher than 4GB (which is the limit for TIFF) that is when I use PSB. I rarely ever use PSD.
Keep up the great videos, I've learned to much through your channel.
Thanks so much! Will do 😎
Epic video brother, so helpful and easy to understand, I was only able to do the thumbs up once but here is another 2 just for good measure 👍👍
Can’t wait for the next video
Awesome 😎 thanks, man!
Another awesome video Blake. Finally, the Adobe file system is explained in simple to understand plain English. Hallelujah 🙏🙏
My pleasure! Lots to think about but so simple as well.
Awesome as usual! Thank you so much Blake!
Jpeg for web & Psd...Thx Blake for this brief but informative video. Have a god one !
Thanks for adding to the conversation!
Thanks once again for a straightforward video giving a common sense approach to file saving and explanation.
Finally !!! I understand. Thank you
Great explanation with much needed visuals. Thanks.
Thanks!
Thank you for this video. Have been wondering how and why to save files a certain way. Will be checking out the other videos.
Glad it was helpful! Take a look around and subscribe :)
@@f64Academy Have been for quite awhile.
Very clear !!. Thanks Blake
Sure thing!
Exactly my proces. But I did that not knowing all the differences. Great explanation!
My pleasure, thanks for stopping by.
What’s your take on PNG vs WEBP? (I already excluded GIF, because of its very niche usage)
TY...very informative and helpful
Great explanation, thanks Blake.
My pleasure! Glad I could help.
Nicely explained! Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Very informative. Thanks!
My pleasure!
Very helpful with good recommendations. Thanks.
Glad you found it helpful.
Very helpful, thanks!
Hey Blake, what about DNG? When I export to another application from Photolab 5, it asks me if I want to use TIFF or DNG. I want to continue editing for example in Photoshop or Exposure 7. Which should I use... the TIFF export or the DNG export? Thanks
Use DNG, it's the equivalent of a raw file.
@@f64Academy Thank you 😊
PSD this is what I save as always. I can always go into that file export it to Tiff, jpg or PNG anything I need.
Agreed :) but wait, there's more!
I love that you put the little things out there that makes a big difference to people that or trying to make sense of it all
Great information Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Great info Blake. Hoping Kansas warms up soon for you. Cheers from Nova Scotia.
It was 66 today 😁😁😁
Very helpful. Thanks a lot.
My pleasure!
Nice T-shirt!
Thanks 😁 my little sister got it for me. She's great!
Thanks very helpful👍
My pleasure,!
Thank you for covering this Blake! BTW: how long did it take you to memorise all the acronyms for the video? lol. I would have gotten so tongue tied repeating them. 🤪 All kidding aside, I'm happy to finally have a better understanding of the difference between saving as a TIFF vs PSD
Haha! I did that into like 40 times!
I know this is off topic but have you considered making a video about computer requirements for working with Lightroom Classic and Photoshop 2021? I'm looking to upgrade my 3-year old Windows PC, which seems to be getting slower and slower (typically taking over a minute to transfer an A7R III file from Lr for editing in Ps), and need some advice on minimum hardware requirements.
For large files, man, its hard. I built a machine that could last me until 2028, easily, but Photoshop also can't exceed its own limitations either. I would say at a minimum, a 6 Gig graphics card as PS is getting more and more graphicly intense with every release. For the Ram, I'd say at least 32 gigs of ram so you can allocate 80% of it to PS while you are working. Nothing less than an i7 processor for speed as well. I built a beast and while it can handle a million processes at once, Photoshop is still often very slow with heavy layered documents on a7r III files.
@@f64Academy I didn't really expect a reply, so thanks very much, Blake. I already have an i7 and 32 GB of RAM but graphics cards are very hard to come by here in the UK at the moment, so I'm biding my time. Cheers.
Good job bro
Thanks so much 😁
Hey Blake, if have an image saved as a PDF but want it now to be a PSD, I couldn't just go into Photoshop and do that correct? I would have to open it as RAW then save as a PSD yes? Thanx, great video!
In your diagram you indicate a maximum bit depth of 8 bit for jpg file. I assume you mean per channel so a maximum of 24 bits combined just as png. A gif has a maximum of 8 bit.
Yeah 8 bits per channel, but that confuses a lot more people than saying 8 bit. 8 bit rgb vs 16bit rgb...
@@f64Academy PNG is also 8 bit per color channel.
good stuff
Swear to god I was sweating bout this topic yesterday. So quick question - my work flow starts from Lr to Ps and back to Lr. When I hit Cmnd+Shift+W when I’m done working on an image in Ps, it automatically save it as tiff file and makes it ready for me to play with it in Lr. Is this tiff file layered or non layered version? Also, can Lr read PSD file?
LR defaults to Tif, you can change it if you want, but its not a deal breaker, if it is the ZIP compression they are practically the same thing.
@@f64Academy cool...gonna double check to make sure it saves it as zip tiff. space = 💵. Thank you !
@@pankajpaneru6542 yes, lightroom can read psd files, both with layers and without, IF they were saved in compatibility mode. Unfortunately I don't know what side effects it has on the file size
@@f64Academy I sweated for hours trying to change the default save from to psd before I realised that you change the option in LR not in PS!
Good video. So dumb question here. You mention a PSD codec for windows. I did not know there was such a thing. Is there? If so where do you get it? Thanks
I just googled psd codec
You mentioned something about PSD codecs for PSD files; I have a Win 10 PC but can't see any previews of PSD files, jpeg and raw files preview OK - is there something that I need to download / install to get PSD previews / thumbnails & where would I get it from ?
Yep, google psd codec
Thank you so much 😊
You're welcome 😊
If you're working with adobe colour, in your camera and when processing in Raw does using PSD keep the adobe colour flow better rather than putting it in a TIFF file?
Yes it should if you tell it to in the workflow settings from ACR
Great Video! What about saving your TIFF image as a LZW image compression. I had to use this for printing banner size images to help with the process, what do you think?
As a printer, I advise my clients to save as a TIFF with LZW compression. LZW stands for Lipple, Ziff and White the engineers who compiled this lossless compression scheme. It’s lossless. It compresses the file. LZW created this scheme. And for prints, please flatten your files. Otherwise all of your layers are there if you want or need them.
@@Cranes10000 thank you!
You should use File->Export to save a JPEG or PNG not Save As. It doesn't flatten the file then so you can later save as PSD. However that can cause problems with scaling layer styles so it is wise to create a stamp visible layer first.
Save as does not flatten the file either ;)
@@f64Academy Ah ok. I thought you said it did in the video.
It automatically flattens it within the file as it saves it but leaves the layers in your original PSD that is open.
Good explanation Blake. One more thing, with having a Canon camera and uploading .cr2 raw files, my question is the possible dropping of this format. Is .dns file format a safer alternative and can it be converted in camera, prior to uploading or converted after uploading? Or should I just forget it, I have over "10,000" image's and hate to think I could loose them because of a manufacturing change.
I use the camera manufacturers raw file. No need to reinvent the wheel 😁
One can obviously use a jpeg to make a print but IMHO jpeg should be used only for the the Web, especially if you are saving it with an sRGB profile. The risk is to great especially with a print to have squashed colors, banding and probably other artifacts as well. Because the format is not lost less one should always go back to a lost less format to make edits and then create a new jpeg. My philosophy about all of this is to keep as much info as you can (layers, 16 bits or more) in your originals as every tiny bit of detail is important especially for a print. If you don't print, then jpeg is fine most of the time, except for originals of course.
Thanks for the video, very well presented.
Thanks, and very true. My point on printing for jpeg is that's often what many online companies use to print your work from. From my PC I usually just print from the PSD when I'm finished which is true 16 bit, but I've also tested the 16 bit print next to a flattened and converted jpeg and there was no recognizable difference.
@@f64Academy I agree that most of the time using jpeg (8 bit) wont cause any "visible" problem but sometime Murphy's law will prevail and you'll ruin an $ 100 print. Because of that I don't take any chance and I always print from a 16 bit file. Just a thought, 16 bit driver are almost always an option and not the default, maybe that could explain some of the results one gets. Your right as well about printing shop, very few will offer to print on some photo rag paper from say Hahnemuehle or Canson.
Why haven't you checked ZIP in image compression, that would have made the file even smaller than a PSD, for me personally now and after many tests, TIFF is my way to go when saving files from photoshop as they are a big space saver plus they have a preview, which is very helpful.
Don't know, this was an old one 😉 I'll try it though
If you've got text, you are better off with a PNG. I save my layers as TIFF because I don't like opening up Bridge or some other software to see what the PSD has.
Good to know for text, this was mainly geared toward photos. Good point.
Great video and good explanation. Question: I want to sell my images on a website.via Lightroom. What file type do I send/save my images as? Thanks much, Richard
It would depend on what the printer that is printing the images would want. Most of those websites will tell you what and how to upload.
As a matter of interest how big is the raw file straight out of camera?
My Sony a7r3 raw files are usually between 40 and 50 mb.
Before I save my PhotoShop work, I check the file size because more than once I have had the wonderful wait for file save only to be told the file is more than 2 GB (due to AR2 and AR3 uncompressed raw images). I use the Lightroom catalog for maintenance quick viewing of the PSD/PSB files including doing jpeg exports for web. I also run the jpegs through a jpeg compression utility - some of my jpegs are over 20 Meg and compression helps to get them down to around 12 Meg.
What about dng file format? I save over one TB annually by converting my Sony uncompressed raw files into lossless compressed raw files. I sadly learned the hard way to never ever trust Sony's lossy compressed raw. :( I use Adobe's DNG Converter with Medium Size jpeg preview, don't embed fast load data, don't use lossy compression, preserve pixel count, and don't embed original. Only way to get in-camera lossless compressed raw files in a Sony camera is to purchase the A1 -- that would buy me a LOT of storage. :p
I don't use Sony uncompressed Raw and I've never really had a problem with my Raw files. I also don't convert to DNG because the space is not an issue for me with the Sony compressed files. Personal preference in that department for sure!
I tend to use PNG if I'm sharing a file on social media as it does not matter how many times it's re-saved by others as there is no loss, unlike jpeg.
I haven't seen any issues with resaves of jpegs. I tested that once and saved the same for about 15 times. Nothing significant.
@@f64Academy I think the general public using Facebook etc tends to save with high compression and small file sizes! my jpegs from Ps are always set at the highest quality and like you say I don't notice anything.
I've always wondered about this: Does the color space has a significant contribution to the file size? I typically work in ProPhoto and save the "archival" file (in TIFF 16bit) with this color space, and then convert the whole thing to Adobe1998 with flattening the image and of course to 8bit and then save as JPG. It looks like sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't - though my logic tells me that it shouldn't because as i understand it, color space is just a mathematical "road map" on how to read colors and not extra data added, or is it?
That would be a good experiment for sure. It may. I tend to stay in Adobe RGB and not sway too far in or outside of it. May want to experiment with that one and see.
@@f64Academy Once you work with ProPhoto, you will like it. It can save you some time on enhancing colors or adding vivacity to the image. If you have an image in Adobe or sRGB just "assign" the color space to ProPhoto ... when you finish, "convert" back to Adobe. Sometimes, assigning (or as I like to call it sometimes: Shifting" the color space to ProPhoto is just about enough to have vibrant image!
As a printer, I would advise to just use Adobe RGB IF you intend to print. Professional printers are typically viewing or editing in Adobe RGB 1998, their monitors “see” Adobe RGB 1998 (expensive monitors) and their printers, PRINT in the Adobe RGB color space. ProPhoto may add vibrance for monitor viewing but throws Prints totally out of whack.
@@Cranes10000 Thanks. Yes indeed, whenever I print I use Adobe 1998 (or few times gone to sRGB)
when you're about print a multilayered *.PSB file do you flatten it then save as Tiff? If a PSD/PSB file is an adobe proprietary version of a tiff is there much difference?
I don't flatten it if I'm promoting from home, never saw a major difference. Psd isn't really an Adobe proprietary Tiff it's there for to handle layered documents.
Do you hit CTRL+P or through a RIP?
Ctrl p and I use Adobes print management dialog.
If you know of a print house that prints a 16bit file, I'm all ears, other wise, 99% of them convert it to an 8bit file. Do you lose the data in the conversion process? I'm not sure.
Image Wizards wanted a 16 Bit Tiff from me when I sent an image to them for print.
@@f64Academy It would be interesting to see a same photo, same printed at 8bit and if they print at 16bit, and compare. It would also be good if the image being printed had very good dynamic range.
@@f64Academy I talked to Image Wizard, they have changed there name to Vivid-Metal-Prints, They use Epson Printers with a RIP software program, which rasterizes your image to a supposed sophisticated 8bit file. Food for thought.
Save as a jpg or export as a jpg. What is the difference please?
same thing usually. Save as is a direct save from the settings in Photoshop, export gives you a few options. I traditionally use only Save As... habit I guess.
@@f64Academy cheers
PNG is a lossless format which I personally prefer for fine art prints on a professional RGB printer
It depends on what the print company takes. My own printing, I just go straight from the PSD so I can manage any layers individually to get the print right.
Thanks Blake. You didn't mention .PDF files?
You don't need a PDF as a photographer. That's mainly for text documents.
@@f64Academy I recently put on an exhibition of 47 portrait images printed A2. My printer likes their images provided as a PDF, which was fine as they gave me the spex they require for the files. I was very nervous about the quality of the images in the beginning, as they also wanted what to me was an extraordinarily small file size, but they came up great (whew).
Really, pdf? I've never had anyone ask me for a pdf that's interesting.
@@f64Academy me either! But they were awesome and did a great job with the prints. And putting up with one very stressed photographer :-)
Just curious how many times it took to say that intro 😂 sounds like the next version of “she sells sea shells...” ha!
I had 26 takes for that 🤣
@@f64Academy hahaha! Now that’s commitment!! 😂
Haha, 45 minutes just to record the first 40 seconds 🤣
Regardless whether to save as a tiff or psd, all those layers would crash or freeze my photoshop ;)
Ugh! Yeah I made a beast of a machine to run Ps and all my video editing.
@@f64Academy My son has promised me a new laptop with 64GB RAM and a fast AMD Ryzen processor for next week. I can't wait!
Where is the pan on a Mac when trying to save
I'm not sure. I'm a PC user.
what about DNG? for futur evolution?
Should be the same.
What are DNG?
Generic Raw file.
what about a pdf photo file
I generally don't save photos as PDFs, that's more for documents and text.