I bought more C64 SID chips from AliExpress! (And some other chips too)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- #sid #8bitDanceParty
I ordered from more chips for the C64 and TI99/4a from overseas. I've been burned before, but perhaps this time I lucked out?
--- Video Links
Detecting FAKE Chips From China (Noel's Retro Lab)
• Detecting FAKE Chips F...
Basement Rant: Did I buy fake chips?
• Basement Rant: Did I b...
I bought a C64 SID chip from AliExpress!
• I bought a C64 SID chi...
Chips a la Antoine: an IC chip de-capping recipe without chemicals
• Chips a la Antoine: an...
--- Tools
Deoxit D5:
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Jonard Tools EX-2 Chip Extractor:
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Wiha Chip Lifter:
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www.wihatools....
O-Ring Pick Set: (I use these to lift chips off boards)
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Elenco Electronics LP-560 Logic Probe:
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Hakko FR301 Desoldering Iron:
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Rigol DS1054Z Four Channel Oscilloscope:
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Head Worn Magnifying Goggles / Dual Lens Flip-In Head Magnifier:
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TL866II Plus Chip Tester and EPROM programmer: (The MiniPro)
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TS100 Soldering Iron:
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EEVBlog 121GW Multimeter:
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DSLogic Basic Logic Analyzer:
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Magnetic Screw Holder:
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Universal ZIP sockets: (clones, used on my ZIF-64 test machine)
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RetroTink 2X Upconverter: (to hook up something like a C64 to HDMI)
www.retrotink.com/
Plato (Clone) Side Cutters: (order five)
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Heat Sinks:
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Little squeezy bottles: (available elsewhere too)
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--- Instructional videos
My video on damage-free chip removal:
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--- Music
Intro music and other tracks by:
Nathan Divino
@itsnathandivino
11:28 "no date code of any type". In the 1980s, some chip manufacturers left the "8" off the date code to avoid confusion with chip type numbers that also started with 8. That chip says "42300" which probably means that it was made in week 23 of 1984.
I have no idea why I am spending time learning how to detect fake Commodore or TI chips but I can watch Adrian for hours at a time doing almost anything he cares to deliver! Awesome video Adrian, thank you!
I would love counterfeit chips as long as they function like the real thing. So I actually hope they make a really good copy before these old chips are gone for good.
even if there close enough. like most of the time you dont need %0.0002 precision for old hardware.
There's always FPGA
There's nothing wrong the the ARMSID and FPGASID. Both very good and better in some ways than the originals.
@@thomassmith4999 I've heard the ARMSID has some filtering errors
@@cfothough You are never going to get a SID replacement that's exactly the same as the SID you know because 10 real SIDs all sound way more different from each other than an ARMSID does from whatever one it's closest to. But it's good, especially ARM2SID since you get two sids inside the one chip.
"Would you look at that!"... so satisfying to hear everytime! ;D
Adrian makes himself a Cuba Libre. Someone is having a good time there.
The ice is still ice 🤣
The cruelty of having to wait for that bass drop. Phew!
Dude man bro, I know literally nothing about C64 or electronics but I enjoy the hell out of your videos. I find this stuff super interesting and I can't help but feel like I've been missing out on something in my life over the years and I think I found it.
"It fixes the legs so that they easily go into the socket, without any kind of issue." 😂
Yea talk about "Jinxing" ;)...
I actually thought "wouldn't it be typical if he bent a pin after saying this".. And lo and behold...;)
"it places the lotion in the basket"
It puts the socket on the pins or else it goes into the bin.
@@kitsophrenik Exactly the scene I was thinking of.
As someone that's programmed for the TMS9900, let me tell you, the pin spacing isn't even CLOSE to the only weird thing about that chip. For starters it doesn't even have a stack pointer.
who needs a stack pointer? even if you want one you can easily use on of the general purpose 16 bit registers for that. With the indirect auto increment mode you will get pretty close the the normal stack pointer behaviour. The TMS9900 architecture seems to be 'inspired' by the pdp11, a computer that brought us c, and unix. Actually the orthogonality of the TMS9900 was rare at the time the processor was launched.
@@available898 I actually learned assembly language on the 9900 as a little kid. When we switched to the C64 (cuz that's what everyone else had) it took a long time for my brain to shrink (as I like to describe it) before I could do 6502 assembly.
I stacked up the work spaces and used the 'registers' as local variables.
The Otis 401 family of lift controllers that are all over the world used TMS9900s and its family of peripherals.
The workspace idea I really like, kind of like direct page on the 6809. I just am not a huge fan of the TMS9900 syntax, though maybe that's just the TI-99/4a assembler package. Also it's really annoying that you need both the 32k expansion and the disk drives to even use the assembler package. PEBs are just ridiculously expensive these days. I've used MAME for all the TI-99 assembly I've done, which isn't much. I'd absolutely kill to find a PEB for a decent price... people want like $500-1000 for them!
...and now I want oscilloscope traces and whatever FFT analysis on different versions of SID chips :-D
This.
For sure this :)
Your ears have more dynamic range and a better sense of the quality of the sound.
@Ken Mason The SID chips we like best are the ones we had in our own machines we had when we were young. 😊 It's the same as when there's this one particular mix of a song we prefer even though it may objectively sound worse than others. Which is why I don't really believe in "audiophilism" (unless I get to experience it myself but that's unlikely as my hearing is somewhat ruined at this point), and find it to be a combination of preference, elitism and autosuggestion. But we all have our own weird quirks so whatever.
Icecast sounds interesting though, I may want to look into that sometime.
The CPU might be a repainted genuine chip to look new, but faulty and they did'nt check it.
One of the major reasons that the 6581 is so hard to clone is the fact that they were made from masters that deviated a lot from the design specs, the 8580 masters on the other hand were much closer to the specs, which greatly improved their technical quality but also greatly reduced the stray current that enabled the digisampling with just the master volume control that the 6581 was famous for.
The hand dance is hilarious. Never change man, never change. :)
I'm shocked the SID chip hasn't started being manufactured again in small quantities. I love the sound of that chip. I know some DJs and musicians have utilized the sid chip for producing music.
Twisted electrons made a c64 synthesizer called therapsid mk2 they haven't made any more because they don't have c64 chips
It sounds like the pin spacing on that CPU is 2.5mm instead of 2.54mm
I think some eastern European / soviet countries used the slightly off pin spacing as well. 2.54 was .1 inch and 2.5 was an attempt to make it "metric"
@@stonent yes, Soviet ICs had usually 2.5 mm spacing
That's what I was thinking too, metric spacing. Russians were well known for using metric DIP chips. It must have been real fun trying to put those socket pins in there. But what TI was thinking, who knows. Clearly a dead genuine chip; they probably had no way to test it. At least it's clearly not a 68000!
Genuine TMS9900's were 64-Pin, .9" wide DIP packages with .1" lead spacing. It is possible that the chip he received was a soviet clone having 2.5mm spacing and repainted as a TMS9900 - obviously a bad chip. At the time of the TMS9900 (1976), the 64-pin DIP, .9" wide was unusual but was chosen to prevent having to multiplex the address and data lines. Motorola would eventually use this package for the 68000. Honestly a repainted 64-pin chip could be anything so it might have been a 68000 instead of a 9900 - there is really no way to know for sure... you risk smoking a vintage machine plugging in these repainted chips - in my case I have built fully buffered "go between" sockets for these types of tests but even these aren't failsafe...
The 2382 chip sounds fine, it probably has unusually high, "8580-esque" cutoff values. You may try Terra Cresta by Martin Galway or Lightforce by Rob Hubbard, those are excellent for testing "8580-esque" 6581s.
Thank you so much for the tip with the acetone, Adrian!
💪
I find myself almost addicted to your videos. Kind of in the same way as when we as kids would wait impatiently for the next episode of our favorite cartoon or TV-show. The fact that I don’t care at all for CRTs or that it is pure torture for a fellow sweet-loving diabetic to watch you munching on and (what feels like) endlessly talking about sweets… quite oddly doesn’t seem to have much impact at all.
😁
I think what I love the most is that we get to see when something goes wrong for you as well. It is kind of hard to learn from other people’s mistakes when we don’t get to see them. It also brings less of a teaching or tutorial feeling and more of a “just along for the ride” feel to it, which I really like.
I seem to have collected quite a crazy number of EPROMs and EEPROMs over the past few years. Some from eBay, some from AliExpress, and some from random web-shops, which I have forgotten the names of. Doesn't really matter as I don't remember which chip came from where anyway either.
Some of them work, some kind of semi-work, and some of them I couldn't get working at all. But like you, I always keep broken chips... hence the crazy collection.
For quite a while now I have suspected a portion of them not to be actual fakes but maybe resurfaced, painted, and relabelled.
Because many of my 27C160 EPROMs (the ones I have the most of) are marked as "M27C160", "ST", and "Singapore". Yet there is quite a variance in how they look. Some have a darker and almost black finish to the ceramics, others are light grey-brownish, but most lie somewhere in between. The key difference lies in the size and the partitioning of the exposed chip beneath the window. This makes me suspect that some of them may be smaller, like 27C400s or 27C800s only marked as M27C160. They may not all be from Singapore, maybe made by SGS-Thomson or some other brand instead.
We often find ourselves having strange ideas and biases. I don't know why I have never dared to use acetone. I have tried cleaning these chips with isopropanol and other cleaning solutions without revealing much. But if acetone is safe for human fingernails, it shouldn't really be too harsh on plastic EEPROMs and not at all on ceramic EPROMs, right? (doh!).
So, after watching this video, I instantly went and broke out the acetone.... and it obviously removes any paint with a vengeance.
Some of the EEPROMs have clearly been resurfaced and laser-edged. But I didn't expect to find that quite a few of my EPROMs have also gotten the same treatment. Because as you indicate, the presence of the glass window would seem to make that process harder to pull off. But no, the acetone did remove a ton of paint off some of those as well. A few of the semi-working ones had what to me seemed like an excessive amount of paint on top, spreading out onto the sides. There was even a thin layer on the pins, which I just hadn’t been able to see with the naked eye, and obviously why they were behaving oddly. But it sadly didn’t bring out any of the old markings on any of them.
I don’t really care if they are a different brand, speed, or even a smaller data-capacity. Because I can use 27C400s or 27C800s just as well. But the mislabelling is annoying when you are attempting to burn something onto them. Because my (up until now) favorite GQ-4x4 USB programmer needs an adaptor for burning these kinds of 16 Bits EPROMs. And this adaptor makes it no longer able to detect the ID of the EPROM, if the chip is seated wrong, or there is a problem with the connection to any of the pins. It just simply fails instead, and then all I can do is put the EPROM back into the eraser for another try 20-30 minutes later.
I have just gotten one of the fairly new XGecu T56 programmers, maybe I should try using that one instead.
Anyway, thanks again for the tip… at least now I have the means to “get right to it” as you say 😉
Greeting from Southern Jutland, Denmark 🙂
Yeah, that XGecu T56 programmer does seem to make things a lot easier 😉
I have a feeling that smaller pin spacing is 2.5mm instead of those headers' 0.1" (2.54mm). Across 32 pins, the accumulated error would be 1.28mm, which I'd guess would be uncomfortable but not impossible to shove together, just as described.
I loved it with you jamming out to the music lol Great vid. thanks
Chip doesn't work. "Time to hit it with Deoxit!" :D Loved the analysis! And, yeah, there are some chips that have 2.5mm spacing instead of the standard 2.54 (i.e. 0.1 inches).
19:50 because acetone is literally used in paint remover, so of course it's better.
I am too silly, if I could code I definitely would put you and Rami together dancing to the Donkey Kong song 😉😂👍
Maybe dual wiper headers would be better than turned pin as that's what the IC legs are designed for.
Adrian in his basement, cup of coffee, sit back, good times. Had a dream last night about a game called Nodrub’s Quest and woke up to some Ti99 video. That’s called a kwinkidink
AliExpress seems to have more than their share of "wrong tracking number" scammers IME.
@@xabhax Yes, some of them do that.
Others don't ship at all and then claim that your package was delivered, based on having given you someone else's real tracking number. This is the scam I'm referring to.
Yes. Details in tracking will show it going through some weird locations.
@@andycraig7734 When I see a packet having been delivered in Russia, I apply for a refund. Got it every time so far. And most of the time a couple weeks later the real packet shows up. So yeah, I'm fine with them hurting themselves...
@@HenryLoenwind to be fair they often travel through Russia
@@ligametis There are daily freight trains from China to Germany, but normally such goods would be using airmail. These never land in Russia because they take crazy fees from the airlines.
I love the 8-bit dance parties. It's been too long. Thank you Adrian!
Looks like their investment in acetone resistant paint has finally paid off
Having been through about 4 SID chips (which were WAY more than $25 each) trying to get my C64 repair/restoration finished... and each of them have had their own issues; I -think- I hate you now... If I were to order a SID for AliExpress it wouldn't even be an IC... it'd be a Dorito with some staples glued to it or something. How the hell do you keep getting working SIDs for such good prices!? It's killing me, man!
I did FINALLY get to order a SwinSID Ultimate and it'll get here from Germany, eventually... but I'd've much rather had a fully working, real, SID.
Keep up the great videos and keep up the C64 love!
Ah the TI-99 that brings back memories, I used to do in-house repair of those back in the day. Right before they were closing down all of the production lines for those we could buy them for $50.
These are quickly becoming some of my favorite videos on the channel! Chip Busters! Is what the wife and I call it!
changing the branding is simply cause certain chips get more money
the age of the CPU chip I think anyone would be happy with pin to pin compatible replacement, with any name on it? if it got there computer going, newer ones would probably be capital of running faster with being newer, as with most CPU's
Adrian, nice SID chips. I study these enigmas, trying to build a mega synthesiser and I’m buying as many as I can.
I read that MOS grew them organically from silicon or something, and why can’t we do it 37 years later, but nevertheless my construction is already the size of a table, involves 24 SID chips. I wanna blow the windows off anywhere I take this thing.
Considering using a Leslie speaker, and being an audio engineer, I’m just collecting 64s and chaining via midi. I need help.
Thank you for the video! I enjoy learning about these counterfeit or fake ICs, and it is good to have more awareness.
For the leg cleaning, I have been able to do this with one of those solder pots, melting pot to have the pool of molten solder, like the kind you might use to tin the tips of wire. If you put some flux on the pins and then quickly dip the entire legs into the solder it comes out to look like this for me anyway.
I know its not really related to this video.. but I really wanted to ask, how do you get your audio so good? Your voice seems very clear and articulate. and no background / room noises, but also I don't hear artifacts of a noise cancelling too. Is this just from that Rode Go lavalier mic!?
34:50 - the suspence was killing me, I was rooting for the chip to work and when the right screen showed up I was cheering like a 4 year old in a candy store :D It just made me so happy that the chip is finally working :)
36:50 - maybe you could try to use a socket that has the 2 metal thingies (or is it just one bent into a V shape), cut it up and solder the sides in so you'll have more horizontal clearance and play on the chips instead of just a single hole per leg. Just an idea. It might not look as clean but it might be easier to take the CPU in and out. And run the bodge wires inder the socket or something, but that's just me...
This brought back memories - so many hours of my life swapping around components to try to keep a system running. In the early '90s I ran a computer room at a small school. When I first got there it had about 20 donated IBM PCs, and as each one failed I would replace its bad part with another from a machine that had failed in some different way. I managed to keep the place going on a shoestring, but I don't want to think about how many weekends I spent on the floor of that room trying to get some Frankenstein's monster of a machine to last one more month. By the time we closed the room ~8 years after I arrived, I think we were down to 12~13 working systems (and I broom closet full of scrap parts).
The filter on the R1 SIDs sounds very different than R4 -- there are some tunes that sound like they have missing basslines on the R1. I had an early model breadbin growing up that played Hubbard tunes (among others) completely differently than my friend's, and always thought there was something wrong with my system. Many years later, I blew out the R4 SID in my SIDstation and replaced it with a spare R1 I had from my parts bin, and manually sweeping the filter made it very clear what was going on.
Wouldn't it be nice if someone took a trip to find out all about the world of blacktopping and remarking, put it into a documentary?
I'd love to see and hear about that refurb culture, how it's done, if people do make a living of it, how the parts to get there - if it's from 'our' old hardware somehow getting to China - wouldn't you love to know?
It's absolutely remarkable that it's still relatively easy to obtain hundreds of old parts (though prices are increasing rapidly), which are still needed for a huge amount of (even our) retro computer products and add-ons.
But they're not new. They make them look new, and some people may think they are.
I test every single chip / part from China before it gets to an end-user.
That picture of you in "Adrian's Dance Party' is "SQUEEZED" by 3/4!
Square pixels weren't a thing on home computers until VGA.
Lucky you that you got 2 genuine, working SIDs from China. I recently bought 10 6581R4’s from two different electronics parts vendors out of Hong Kong. The picture they showed me before purchase was of a genuine 6581R4. (I actually already had one with totally identical markings as their photo.). What I received were clearly re-marked chips. I didn’t have to do the acetone test to check, plus they had return policies and didn’t want to “damage” them from the acetone test and risk not being able to return them. In the end, I got my money back. The strange part is that of the 20 chips, many of them did not register as either a 6581 or 8580 in my C64 Reloaded board, but several did. Of those, most had some degree of functionality of a SID, so it seems like what they do is either: 1. Mark a completely different chip with the same package to be the chip you’re ordering (in this case a 6581R4 SID), or 2. Clean up and re-mark an older SID with the newer markings to pass it off as the newer version but don’t check if the chip actually works. I did find a few SIDs that were maybe 60% or 70% functional, and even found one that was probably 99% functional, but had to send it back to get my refund.
I was really hoping that fake CPU didn't blow the rest of the machine!
Less colored circles, more accurate VUs :P
Oh and the Donkey Kong splash screen on the C64 in the background would be fitting :)
Very nice demo to whoever wrote it! :)
Great video, I have a working C64 from 1982 which my father bought me as a child. Still use it today
Surprised with regards the SID there isn’t an analyser of some sort, eg Android app that takes the audio out via a line in and checks (think guitar tuner apps)
Evie Salomon's BackBit I.C. Chip Tester?
@@MattKasdorf That would test if the chip is functional, not if it can generate the correct tones etc?
Could it be, that the "TMS 9900" actually is a 68000? They both have the same package and the M68k actually is a lot cheaper to get, from what little I know.
Wasn't the TMS 9900 the first single-chip 16bit CPU? I seem to recall they kinda set the standard on the 64-pin DIP packaging, which was later used by a bunch of other chips, usually high-spec stuff like the 68000 or high-integration parts like the Z180. That said, the package notching and markings look like TI's TMS 9900. If I had to guess, it's a legit TI part, but was probably just toast. If it's not a dead "refinished" TMS 9900, then it's some other TI part that came in 64bit DIP packaging.
I've not seen a m68k with such large circular marks, in particular the semi circular mark on the left. They seem to be smaller on Motorola DIP64 packages.
Pin spacing in CPU is metric? 2.5mm vs 2.54mm (0,1"). Soviet chips were 2.5 spacing.
No, it's regular 0.100". The problem is inserting a desolderd 64 pin chip with very slightly bend pins into an precision turn DIP or actually 2 rows of precision turned SIL...
(Pin diameter typical ~0.150", hole diameter of a turned socket typical ~0.200") 64 pin DIP is the only case in which I would prefer a regular socket.
Even if it they were new from the factory these 64 pin DIP chips have to be hard to insert in a socket like this. There was a reason why they stopped at 64 pins...
Needed something to watch while entering data, more listen, but does this ever fit the bill. This kind of video fascinates me. That cart with the song is awesome! Love that sound.
A tip: Chrome has a picture-in-picture addon you can download from the extensions page (made by Google, dunno why it's not just included). Then you can press ALT-P to pop any HTML5 video player into a little resizeable always-on-top window. Probably still not great to use at work, but plays really nicely with games - I use it a lot when I'm playing Runescape.
@@GdotWdot just have my cell phone next to me and glance at it when he’s talking about something I need to see. Thanks for the tip though. Going to check that out for home.
Add salt to the 70% alcohol until it accumulates at the bottom indicating that the 30% water is saturated. The salt water will be heavier than the alcohol and will stay at the bottom. The top layer will be pure alcohol.
34:46 The chip works! Keep doubting whether something is broken or not!
Many old devices will not function properly due to moisture ingress - very slow over time - when the device is not in service for a long time. As in - no heating.
A time-honored solution, particularly with memory parts, is to bake them for 12 - 24 hours at a temperature of 95 to 110 degrees centigrade.
This technique has been used in PCBA facilities for many years when the devices have been outside their original foundry shipping sealed packaging beyond the prescribed warehouse-storage-life of the device.
6581 original version is never tight, they are all over the place. The only "tight" 6581 is the AR . 8580s are the best SID though, providing the song is made for it.
That #8bitdanceparty program is just epic! :D
I'm across the river from you on the Washington side-- I'm set up for x-ray inspection of chips and boards and the like, so if you ever want to find out (non-destructively) what's inside those packages and compare them to a known-good one, give me a shout!
I have very fond memories of growing up with a TI 99/4a. I remember we had some math game, Jawbreaker II, and Pole Position for it. We also had a game called Tunnels of Doom that loaded off of a cassette (we pillaged the cassette player from our home organ at one point to play it). My brother still has it all these years later and he can't wait to show my niece how to use it.
Whenever I socket something with a nonstandard pin spacing, I take a gold plated dip socket with a compatible pin size and use nippers to pick off one pin at a time and after its soldered in, clip off the rest of the plastic,, then if you want to get real fancy, you can use pieces of poster board to build a wall around the pins on top of the board and backfill with potting compound to the height of the pin sockets.. Either way, no funky Bending.
"Because of human malware" has to be the best filter-dodge euphemism for covid I've heard for a while
So much easier to appreciate these older cartridge-based systems after seeing the fact that replacing a PS1 CD-ROM drive runs $90 at Totalconsole if you decide to replace the laser. However, you then have no idea how long it would be before you have to fork out another $150 down the line as these lasers are only getting rarer and rarer. At least with these chips, they are stable, solid state components that only really go bad from sheer lack of attention to it. Cartridges, also solid state didn't carry as much data as their optical counterparts, but at least you never have to worry about a permanently damaged disc or even worse, a failing laser! Quality over quantity.
70% IPA is more effective at killing germs than 99% because the water is a necessary important component. That'd be why supply is leaning heavily towards 70%.
[Everyone runs to AliExpress to look for $20 legit SID chips, finds they were all gone a year ago] ;-)
Yea methinks that 8bitguy was complaining just a tad bit too much about gettung 30 year old chips.
For some reason I thought the TI-99 you repaired was silver.
Today I fixed 2 Quickshot Turbo II joysticks, both had missing wires, one was just yanked off, one was cut. I had to tinker with the wiring with the new cable (used a 9pin dsub extension cable and cut off one of the ends), cleaned the microswitch contacts and they are just like new, I'm so happy!
Good work, it's always nice to repair things. I'm currently working on restoration of a 1981 'fruit machine' from an amusement arcade
What did you do for strain relief where the cable comes through the plastic shell? I'm curious because i would like to find a good method myself. I've tried with 4 zip-ties in a little square on both sides of the shell, but i think there must be a better way.
@@MattyEngland Wow, sounds really nice! I love restoration works, it's just so satisfying to do or watch.
@@BertGrink One of the joysticks still had the strain relief on the cable, I janked out the old cable and put it on the new one and put some electrical tape behind it so I won't be able to pull it through the strain relief plastic. The other one sadly didn't have the rubber strain relief so I just put a huge winding of electrical tape to keep the wire inside the shell so pulling on the cable won't stress the soldering. You can reuse old strain relief rubbers, they are not permanently attached to the wires and I also wanted to buy some online but it's hard to find the right size. Luckily the my new wire was the same size as the old one.
@@Dukefazon I think you have been quite lucky then; most strain reliefs i have come across have been bonded to the outer isolation of the cables, making it very difficult to separate the cable from the strain relief.
They may not be fake. Most of these chips are recycled from old machine parts, clean and legs re-tinned. It's a gamble because the seller does not has the means to test them out.
another victory for Deoxit D5 aka "Adrian's chip lube"! :)
Adrian's Chip Lube LOL!
You almost smashed it with a sledgehammer only to recount and chuckle in
The AD558JN is still in production, here in germany you can buy it brand new from Reichelt Elektronik for 27,52€ ^^
Daaaaaamn! They used to be cheaper in the past.
The use of machine sockets will make it harder install the TMS cpu, but the cheaper sockets may in fact be a better choice since they have spacing to better account for the slight pin spacing.
FYI: 70% alcohol is a lot better then 99% alcohol, as an disinfectant.
99% alcohol can be found at you local farm supply store. It used for sanitizing chickens coops, and other farm stuff ect.
It's my understanding that IC chips are full of discrete components. So would it not be possible to essentially unpack a SID chip and make it large scale?? If possible, I'd like to see that done as a project here.
Usually they contain just a single silicon chip. You could potentially reverse engineer it and make something fully discrete, bit it would not be trivial.
@@TomStorey96 and that silicon chip contains all the discrete components. I realise making a full size replica wouldn't be easy. And the process of grinding the surface of the chip down to the wafer and then using an electron microscope to look at the contents is beyond any normal person's capability - but if there are schematics of the dies inside, it would be interesting to see it done and to see what sort of sounds that version would make.
Can you upload the 8-Bit Dance Party demo to The Archive or CSDB?
And can we also get Adrian‘s tools as an EPROM image? Or maybe even the full cartridge to buy somewhere? :)
Sounds like TI99 did the same thing as the USSR did. The USSR stole/copied schematics for computers from USA where pin spacing as 10 pins per inch. The Soviets rounded one inch to 2.5 cm so their spacing was 10 pins per 0.9842519... inches. When they tried fitting western ICs they didn't fit.
In regards to the EPROMs; It's possible they weren't trying to fool anyone to accept substandard chips, but rather make it more probable that they find potential buyers (people who want replacement parts who doesn't know which chips WOULD work the same in their computer, so they just search for the one type they KNOW works).
The 100- AMD-27c400's i got fro0m china were actually Micronix 27c4100's pin compatible but the eprom burner identified it internally. remarked. Chinese chips are like a box o chocolate,you never know what your gonna get.
No legitimate vintage ic chip has laser etching.
The fake TMS9900 could very well be a 68000 or 68010, it has the correct number of pins (64) and looks almost identical to 68000 and 68010 parts I have. It'd be interesting to try it and see if it works after the 12v insult it got. You can put a socket in an old compact Macintosh from the original 1984 Mac to the SE, which used the long DIP package 68000. The later classic I think changed to the QFP variant.
The limiting factor is I think the pin pitch is not the standard 0.1" / 2.54mm, and is a bit narrower, so getting a socket may be a bit of a challenge.
Fun video. I especially liked the fan-made 8 Bit Party - it put a big smile on my face. May suggest you take keys from the TI 99/4A that needs repair and put it on the one you fixed last year to complete it?
IMHO, your TMS9900 is a MC68000. By comparing impedances between the GND/VCC and signal pins of fake chips and real chips, you might be able to know if it it a legit one.
Nobody is producing certain fake chips, they just find random old chips with packages that look similarly to the proper chip and just fake markings.
My 6581 SID chip was soldered. Only socketed chip on my board was the VIC-II… until I started socketing others. ;)
I've tried to get the message across a few times here about the ARMSID which is an extremely good SID replacement that can be configured as either 6581 or 8580 in software. They aren't even expensive. I guess SID purists won't accept anything other than the real thing but the ARMSID is very good and well supported.
We'll see if Adrian sees this message but as I have never heard Him even mention it once I suspect He's not even aware of it. Do not confuse it with a nano swinsid which is rubbish in comparison.
The ArmSID is brilliant. Especially since you can configure it at runtime to emulate either 6581 or 8580. This helps a lot with running a lot of demos. There are some that require 6581 for samples (Comaland?) and others that require a 8580 for its filters. I have two ArmSIDs (and some 6581R4) and didn’t regret buying them.
The TMS9900 processor was used in the TI-990 series mini-computers. They were UNIX-based business computers. Aligning replacement heads after a head crash on a hard drive platter was a bitch. Of course that was prior to the TI-99 and their PC came out. Commodore 64s would blow SID chips often, and RAM chips. If they had had metal cases and a fan to dissipate heat, they would have lasted longer.
I do how ever love your energy . im glad at least most of the chips worked.
I got chills when that demo came up. But I have lots of love for the TI99/4a, my first computer.
Agreed. That was my first computer as well.
I recently got a batch of fake DRAM (batch of 20 - all exactly matched and looking way too new, plus incorrect US date codes on a Japanese part!), however they survived the acetone test!!
Looking closely I could see they were sanded, then maybe sand-blasted to give them a texture and finally laser-etched.
Ie. no paint used in the process!
Just something more for folks to watch for!!!
If you wonder why rebranded chips often are faulty, here's where they come from: th-cam.com/video/5vN_7NJ4qYA/w-d-xo.html
Holy crap.
It's funny that it was the 70% alcohol that was available - because that was the one that was more effective for the purposes of human malware.
So the anlog digital converter chip is from youtube... or why did they put that logo onto the chip :-D (19:32) ?
As always, nice video... thank you, Adrian :-)
old SID 4eva!
This channel is the digital version of Mr Carlson's Lab.
I'd be happy with a functional fake. Most 'counterfeit' chips are extremely common, cheap or even defective IC's with the same form factor as the original. Painted and remasked, the sole intent is to dupe you into buying it. Even power transistors have gone counterfeit in the last 10 years, albeit most have functional substrates that simply do not meet the original specs or power requirements.
I used to repair marine radios and the TMS9900 was used in some radios. I was surprised as I thought it was a 99/4a exclusive.
One of our New Zealand marine research vessels - RV Tangaroa - has an onboard comms system powered by a TMS9900 from one of my TI99/4as. I got a tour of the ship as a thank you :)
I need to buy backup chips for my colecovision and atari. Just in case
@25:11 he got so much from Aliexpress. that he can't dance any more. he is just doing Kung Fu now :_:
As I understand, the legs are frequently re-tinned. That's why they look so nice. You might have better luck with a dual wipe socket for the TI99. Those machine pin sockets drive me crazy. I sometimes struggle getting even "standard" pin spacings into those sockets.
My EE friend told me machined is the best but I like dual wipe better. Especially for repeated chip swapping. I dread trying to desolder those machines pins too
I replaced my C64 RAM with them and yeah it was a pain to put the chips in. But it's also a good solid connection. The RAM was new old stock though. Maybe repurposed ram would be easier.
I have a solution for the pin spacing. Permanently mount the cpu in a ic socket and then the spacing will match putting it in another of the same socket by putting one socket in another!
Wait. Wasn't the TMS9918 chip used in MSX computers? Afaik they were quite widely used at least in Japan?
The original MSX did, yes.
I once bought several VIC-I chips (6561-101) from aliexpress. Most of them worked so I was happy and didn't even bother trying to get a refund for the non working ones.
I guess the re-brand can made them easier to sell, since some younger people know nothing about Hitachi or STM EPROM, I got an re-brand AMD also, TL866II detected the ID is STM. Famous chips can sell higher price.
Adrian, the 8bit dance machine 😅
Oh; And the CPU with strange pin-spacing.. I FIRST assumed it was just that a LOT of older hardware had a standard of a tenth of an inch spacing, but because technology advanced, they wanted closer pins.. so they went metric; Tenth of an inch is 2.56 mm, and they chose 2 mm... (of course, when they started surfacemounting and reflow-soldering everything, they first went back to using inch for 1.28mm, and later again to 1 mm)....
BUT.. IF it really was about 20% difference in the spacing, then you wouldn't be able to get that cpu in to a 2.56mm fitting at all.. So I guess I have to change my "You are thinking of the wrong standard" to.. "Well, they manufacture the chips and boards they belong to themselves and solder from factory.. They just wanted the extra space"..
Im only familiar with the commodores, but this was very interesting. Congrats for the nice SIDs.
I wouldn't assume there isn't demand for counterfeit TMS video chips. The Colecovision retro scene is a very enthusiastic scene, and that's not counting TI fans and foreign MSX fans. There was enough demand to create a modern replacement for that TMS video chip for outputting RGB and VGA that's become popular amongst those fans even with it being expensive...