I think the space bar was definitely smiling. The C64 looks like new. Great work and a great pleasure being a part of this video series. Thanks again and enjoy the C64! :)
Jan Beta well once i saw him throwing those key’s in a pan,well of course it’s obviouse that all the key’s helding against the metal including the space bar will melt. So ever ever put key’s in a hot metal pan. I predicted this penalty. Also i predicted that his tape drive at the moment wouldn’t do anything.
You know, the C64 is one of those special machines which usually brings a smile especially to the 80s/90s kids who have actually played it back in the day... that's not to say that new generations can't enjoy it, but every one has its favorite thing. We didn't have all the eye-candy graphics back then, so it was left to the imagination and brilliant game play to fill in the void. :)
Uk viewer here love,love love your channel..you are the Indiana Jones of the classic computer world..finding old relics and making sure they are preserved fror all to see...
Came over from Dubious Engineering. Subbed. I had a used one of these as my first computer. I was so fascinated, sat in front of it all day, until late at night, when I toppled off my chair, dizzy because I had not eaten or drank anything all day. I had the floppy disk drive. Mailed it all to a friend in South Africa after finally getting a regular computer. Fond memories.
A great ending to the trilogy. Thanks very much for uploading this series. I must say that I was eagerly awaiting the third installment over the Christmas holidays. It has inspired me to refurbish my own Commodore 64C this Summer. Summer, because I'm going to need all the sunlight I can get. My keys are a much darker shade of brown than yours ever were. I was most interested in seeing your results with the retro-brighting and was as horrified as you probably were to see what happened to that space bar. That's a clear warning for me as I can't afford to damage my original keys - I've had them almost 30 years. A big thanks to Jan Beta for making a cameo appearance in this one on his selection of games and it was a nice touch to start off with the rendition of Jonathan Dunn's most excellent Robocop theme, the same one Charlie Brooker plagiarised for his one-off, _"How Video Games Changed the World"_. I'm eagerly looking forward to your special on retro-brighting those Amiga keys.
jimjamz thanks for watching as always I'm glad you enjoyed it. Today I laid out all of the kit to begin filming that retrobrite experiment so hopefully you will have results some time next week
A great series evoking pre amiga ownership. The videos keep getting better and more polished but with a good chilled vibe. The inclusion of Jan Beta made this 10/10 👍👏
What a great project! Way to go RMC! I have never seen that Retr0Brite technique before. It scares me a bit, but also very exciting. I think the space bar was frowning, but hopefully you can turn that frown upside down! You look like Walter White with that setup! ha ha! Looking forward to the A500 Retr0Brite episode. Great work as always! -- AmigaBill
Thank you for watching, I've really enjoyed getting the C64c up together and am working through your suggestions to play. Some really great titles suggested! If you're interested in the SD2IEC you can find the developer here sd2iec.de/ and I purchased the version by TFW8B here www.thefuturewas8bit.com - And you can see the Wiki to read what is and isn't supported by the device here www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/sd2iec_(firmware) - Take care! Neil - RMC
Now I want a 64C! I stole parts out of my 64 15 years ago to fix a customer's machine - now I doubt it works. Time to get it out of storage and fix it! Thanks for the motivation!
The 1541 was common here in the US. I had/still have it on mine, and only knew one person that had the cassette deck with his. Great series, and I plan to get my C64 back up and going as soon as I get a power saver for it.
Thanks, Neil you made me feel all fuzzy remembering my C128 and the hours of fun and enjoyment without having to spend 60 quid for a game or waiting ages for updates!
Nice video all about your adventreus with the C64c. Nice to see lots of cool games in the video. The 1541 drive sure is a beast. Here in the UK you had a badge of honour back in the day if you had one. Everyone pretty much woked from tape. It's good that we have many options out there to load games and keep the C64 alive.
Your comment has reminded me that back in around 1982/83 when I worked in a small computer shop in Banbury (UK), the original Commodore disk drive (1540?) could actually take longer to load games than the official cassette drive!! :-D Its so long ago now that it's a bit of a blur, but yeah... some C64 games were just too much for the original version of the disk-drive, and so took longer to load than the cassette version - which seemed crazy at the time!! :-)
My favorite computer ever, i loved it so much. Played games hours on it, learning basic *pun here* skills of programming and typing with both hands. The Tapedecks where a nightmare i whas so happy with my 1st (white) 5,25 floppy drive, that whas a cheap clone that died every few months and the store keep giving me a replacement every time my father whent back to complain about it. We had a cutter for these floppys, so we could turn it around and use the backside too for storage. The later in i think the final stage of the system i got a 3.5 floppy diskdrive but those floppys where so expensive at the time. C64 i a big part of my teens (i whas around 12/13 when i got it and sold it when i whas around 19) and always a great memory of a no worries time. Thank you so much for making this great video its so good to see that people still care about this system :)
Back in 1985, none of the C64 owners in my area owned a 1541, it was all tapes. When we exchanged softwares (cough…) each Datasette would have its reading head at a different height setting. So either you use it with the top half of the case off, or enlargened the access hole for the setscrew. Option one was what I used. ^^)
I know that problem, we had a creative solution for that, we volt (i hope i pronounce this well) a piece of paper until it reached the right hight. Afcourse it whent wrong from time to time with the result of a damaged tape and some one beeing realy mad for it. Other option whas a double tape deck to copy the tapes :) Such a good times then.
The uberchampion of programming from our den wrote a little compressing tool called HGR Turbo Copy, which displayed the signal the take read in red and black beams on the screen and also played the signal as audio. you could see and hear when the signal came good. ^^) Actually, I guess I may still have the tape with it. I have to check.:oD I didn´t touch my C64 in over ten years, I guess I finally have a reason to do so..
RMC you killed the spacebar luckily there are a few around. It's a great looking machine and now you have the original c64 decal it does make all the difference. A good series of episodes well thought out and excellently executed with the guest appearance from my friend Jan beta. Good work RMC....😁Kim
Yea Jan Beta!!! Great cameo! And thanks for allowing us to learn from your mistakes RMC! I was really hoping that retrobrite method would have worked. Ahhh well. Everything else looks fantastic.
Just been thinking - it would be great to see how well the bread bin keys would do under the same sort of process. As I'm sure you're aware of - is the markings on the keys end up rather yellowish.
An excellent conclusion to this series. Ah, the trials and tribulations of retrobriting -- and thanks for not shying away from the mistakes; that's how we all learn -- I'm with Jan Beta and say the space bar is smiling. Beach Head was one of my favourites, as well -- I loved that each level was a completely different style of gameplay. Great work again, and I continue to enjoy the new 2018 Cave!
Came here to say this. It would be so tempting and easy for a creator to skip over mistakes and issues, if for no other reason than to protect one's pride. However it means so much more to show the mistakes. Nice work, as always :)
emptythevoid _ thanks! The way I see it if I share a mistake it may save 5 others from repeating it, and keep more old classics in service. A sacrifice to the C64 gods.
Superb video. So well timed because I was thinking of getting a C64. Thanks for letting us know about these cool modern additions, but I did go for a Grey Fast Loader Cartridge to better fit with the colour scheme, rather than a bright green one. Also I replaced the Power Supply with a modern C64 equivalent (protection built-in)...As for favourite games, Dropzone, Monty on the run, International Karate+ and Wizball. Plus modern games like Sam's Journey.
What a great restoration and keeping the 8bit dream going. So many great games to choose from you'll have many of great hours of fun playing with your new toy. Not shore if it would help but you can put a couple of sheets of kitchen roll in the bottom of the pan to help keep it from being in contact with the bottom of the pan. Looking forward to your next video in the cave
although the solution may have been at 70-80 deg, the steel pan bottom is in contact with the heating plate underneath and may be way hotter than the liquid. How about putting the solution in a bowl and heating it over a pan of water below.
This is what I tried in the video, before I clamped it I reheated it but with no luck. I do still have it so maybe I'll think of something but I think it may be a lost cause
I wonder if you could make a plaster mould of a space bar key in the correct shape, then using a heat gun/ hot water soften the bent one and put it into the correct shape mould?
I also managed to spoil a set of C64 breadbin keys with peroxide. Some got too hot and bleached. This is really bad as the breadbin keys are dark brown. We live and learn. Anyway, thumbs-up for another fine video. And don't think we didn't notice your "other side of the cave" comment ;-)
I personally did the peroxide cream method you used, but instead of sunshine I used a UV light that I had suspended above it. I left it in the dark without any obstruction of other light sources for 16-32 hours (it can vary on how much yellowing you're removing, it's best to check up every couple of hours). Even reapplied the peroxide cream once or twice more before leaving it under again but it worked extremely well! Didn't do this on computer parts, but I did do it with Sega Dreamcast and Nintendo NES console cases that were both rather yellowed and they turned out well. Hope you found this helpful! Really enjoy the videos!
I recently had good success with standard 3% peroxide, no further water added, at 150 degrees Fahrenheit for 4 hours. No key warping at all and definitely brightened all the keys up to a good level. No cover needed. Only a couple of keys have minor yellow left. You do need to monitor temperature and reduce heat accordingly.
Diggin the 80's AOR tune in the background. I have fond memories seeying a c64 for the first time at my friend's house. He was playing ninja spirits, quite a decent port.
Think I have my c64 breadbin somewhere. Not been used for over 20 years. Had a good selection of games too. Your right about the cassettes being more popular over here. Must dig it out and see if it still works. If so I’ll have to try and fix the port 2 issue it had. Wouldn’t turn left on port 2. Think it needs a chip replacing if I remember rightly
Or it could be a broken pin in the connector. To fit them inside the breadbin, the pins on the joystick port are bent at a 90-degree angle before they connect to the system board. I've had the joystick port on my VIC-20 break like that. The good news is that the pin for "Left" is one of the top 5. The bottom 4 (which includes the fire button, ground/earth, and +5V line) are *much* harder to repair because of the design of the plastic shield that was designed (ironically) to prevent this exact kind of breakage.
Alas no, I think it went with the rest of my collection.. Still a bit miffed about that actually. I think I build it mid noughties. I remember that I married it to an IBM monitor. A monster 15" beast with an incredibly strong rising foot mechanism that seemed to defy gravity. It was one of my DIY all-in-ones. I'm from the Netherlands by the way, so close enough! Put the UK on it's side and you're practically there!
Sweet baby Jesus that DD is redonkulous. It makes me think of how far technology has come. Even so, as I seem to recall it was massive for the time as well!!
Yeah, that's because the power supply was internal. Also, it was a "smart" drive... it had its own CPU, 2k of RAM, and 6522 I/O chips, so there was a lot of circuitry in there as well. The 1541-II moved the power supply to an external power brick. That's why it's so much smaller.
"Drop Zone" (Buggy Boy as Jan Beta said) "Gremlins" the text adventure game.. "The Last Ninja" games.. "Uridium" and "Uridium plus".. "Jack the Nipper".. "Aztec Adventure".. I could go on all day with games that you could play on your Commodore 64.. 1000's to choose from (some crap but lots of good ones) I am still exploring the C64 software today, back in the early to mid 80's I must of played about 400+ games that my brother had on tapes in his draw, copies and originals..
Great episode! Germany as well had the 1541 as the most common method to handle your files. (And the C64 was really, really popular in Germany.) The datasette remained more of a mystery for me. But I remember someone having one and showing it to me, I was in awe!
When everyone is talking about the games we played on the C64 I don't know why no one ever mentions MY favorite games. Advanced Dungeons and Dragons: Pool of Radiance and The Hunt for Red October. I played these two games to DEATH and still loved them. Anyone else???
4:56 - Ah man, that is brutal but you live and you learn. Have you considering using a mixture of black light and/or halogen light for retrobriting as both sources emit good and safe levels of stable UV light, compared to the anaemic levels of sun on our island, but halogen light offers heat that is also central to the process too, so maybe a small 800w heater with the temperature/distance monitored could work. Another great vid.
Charmingly awesome. I'm swimming in the depths of my sweet C64 memories now, inspired by the movie, so please excuse me the lack of words in this opinion. :) BTW. In 1995 a school colleague adviced me to buy a 386 PC. I got a 1541-II and joined the demoscene instead. Disk drive was that much better than a datassette and gave my C64 a completely new life and an unseen level of user-friendliness.
Ultima IV was the game I played the most on my C64C. Only because you couldn't look up hints online. There was no online. So many good games on the C64. The Summer/Winter/World/California Games (etc.) were always fun. Maniac Mansion is a classic. As Is Zak McKracken. Impossible Mission was great. That scream was something else. Neuromancer was probably one of my all time favourite games. Space Taxi is another classic.
Very nice video, your C-64c looks brand new :) I had tape drive with my C-64c but it actually was a 3rd party "clone". Just tried to google pics of it but couldn't find any just like my tape drive was.
Brings back memories, My first computers was a used Vic 20, followed by a used (rounded) C64, then a new C64 just like this one, both the Vic 20 and the 1st C64 came with tape drives, the newer C64 had a floppy drive.
Great job. Looking sweet. I Still have a boxed Terminator 2 edition C64. Never opened. Picked it up for peanuts years ago. Its staying sealed in the box but If I ever have more space, I'd love to get my hands on a breadbin C64.
That's exactly what I did to my a1200 space bar, but luckily not warped it much as yours! I used a slow cooker from tesco, very cheap and with a lid ;) it,s perfect. Beware though, my brown keys got bleached too, and some of them went a lot lighter than I thought was possible so maybe do the white ones and dark ones separate. I think I may have used too strong a mix of peroxide. Good job on the restoration 👍🏼
have you ever considered trying one of those small UV lamps they use at beauticians? They are used for drying nail varnish and they cost about 15 to 20 quid. You'd only fit about half they keys in it but could be worth a go.
don't know, but I don't think imaginethey draw a lot of power or run very hot. They have them in nail bars and I guess they run them all day with different people getting their nails done.
Would it be possible to maybe supply the UV light needed for 'outdoor' retro-brighting but indoors. Maybe just in a large box or something, mount as many UV tubes as you can fit in the lid of a box and close it up?
eggypickle I believe people now think the UV does nothing, and that it is the heat alone that activates the reaction. The 8 bit guy did a video on it recently.
Another great Video, loving the content, brings back lots of memories from the 80's/90's. Have you ever thought about doing any content on arcade machines from the time, I know the pure size of the things would be a nightmare but always wandered what was actually inside them? As a lot of the games where adapted for home computers at the time, I often wander if the computers where made by the pioneers of the speccy and the Commodore??
Thanks for watching! I've owned a couple of JAMMA cabinets and converted them to MAME in the past, taking a look at some original arcade boards might be a fun idea, I'll have a think on that thanks for the suggestion.
+Ginger Ninja FPV A lot of that information is available on the Internet from people who specialize in restoring arcade cabinets. I can tell you that the CPU used in the video games were mostly similar to the ones that were popular in home computers. The earliest arcade games (late 1970s) used the Intel 8080, but that was quickly superceded by the Zilog Z80. Atari used 6502 CPUs in most of their early arcade machines. Later games (like most of Capcom's games from the early 1990s) used two processors, one of which was usually a generation behind the main CPU. For example, the Capcom games used a Motorola 68000 main CPU, with a Zilog Z80 for sound. Then, finally, in the 2000s, they started using RISC-based MIPS processors. Arcades are still thriving in Japan, so there are still a few arcade games being made, mostly by Japanese manufacturers. Most of these use modified PC-based hardware with a high-end graphics card.
This is a direct capture from the C64 which has then been scaled up for the video, so you may be seeing the effects of scaling or compression from the capture, but it's not interlaced on the TV while playing it. Thanks for watching.
maybe make a wooden "jig" a board with bits of wood on it. that leave a space thats right for the space bar. heat the space bar up again. then put it in the wooden jig, till it cools. might go back to the right shape
That space bar looked like it was belonged to those ergonomic keyboards. Also, I bet that all of the software released on C64, including new ones made by the community after its 10+ years of commercial life would fit on a 2GB SD card uncompressed.
The 1541 really was a ridiculously large disk drive even back then - but then it also is not only a disk drive, it contains a whole separate computer. I remember that back then I had a disk copy program for two 1541 (drive 8 and 9) which loaded itself into the RAM of the floppy drives, and after that you could disconnect the drives from the C64 (so you could play games on it while copying) and the drives could copy disks on their own (i.e. they recognized when you inserted a source and target floppy and started the copy process automatically).
+freibier that's a very good point it has its own 6502 CPU inside it as well, quite the bit of kit. Thanks for sharing your memories. All legit copying activities I'm sure.
Uhm, mostly legit I think, my memories are a bit hazy :-) We did buy games, but only the super top titles we knew would be awesome and last a long time. For me, that was mostly RPGs, like my prized Ultima 3 / 4 / 5 boxes with the cloth maps, gimmick items and thick manuals, or the TSR "Gold Box" games. Or Bard's Tale, which came in a very pretty LP Sleeve packaging. It is interesting that so many say they only had the datasette - here in Germany, the C64 was the computer everybody had (no Spectrum people around and Atari was only a thing during the Amiga/ST time), and everybody who had a C64 also had a 1541.
Another great video. By the way did anyone notice that the word physical was misspelled in the manual? Lol... Buggy Boy was a fantastic game. I spent many summer nights playing it and also playing Emlyn Hughes International Soccer. Thanks for the video!
Jan did an amazing video on restoring the PSU's. I haven't tried it yet but it surely sounds like a better idea to me than 30 - 40 dollars on a new psu or saver.
Thanks Andy, I'll get that fixed when we go on our retrobriting adventures soon. I didn't want to risk bending another space bar. In person it's hardly discernible but the studio lights do highlight it a bit. Thanks for watching
Nice video man. I haven't spent much time on the C64. I've got one here with the original 1802 monitor and a member of the community was kind enough to make and send me a replacement power supply so I didn't have to worry about frying chips with a bad 5V line. I have the MKII floppy disc drive which strangely wont load games if i put it close to the monitor? I 100% have to invest in the SD2IEC or an ultimate cart.
+John-Paul Parker From the sound of things the monitor is putting out a *lot* of RF interference... enough to interfere with the disc drive's electronics. Your comment suggests that it works as long as the drive is far enough away from the monitor. If it bugs you and you really want to be sure, though, start with something simple like taping a layer of aluminum foil to the side of your monitor, or surrounding the drive with a wire mesh cage (a "Faraday cage"). If the problem goes away, you've found the culprit.
Quick note about the evaporation problem. I think that Peroxide has a higher boiling point than water. So it could be possible that you were boiling off the water and leaving more peroxide heavy solution. Then you would add more peroxide and water solution. So over time it's possible you ended up with a higher concentration of peroxide than you were planning on. I am not 100% sure this is the case, just thought of it when watching. A lid would fix it, as you stated. But I thought it might be interesting to keep in mind for future projects.
Just a couple of interesting trivia bits regarding the C64. You mentioned that compact data cassettes and ROM cartridges where the more popular method of loading/saving software/files in the U.K. Vs the 5 1/2 floppy drive that dominated the home computer market much sooner in the U.S.. My understanding is that this was due to high import taxes in the U.K. Vs the U.S. such that once the cost of making the floppy drives came down in general, home computer users the U.S. was quicker to switch to them whereas import taxes made cassettes and cartridges the significantly cheaper option in the U.K. For all except for business computer users willing and able to effort the higher cost. Another interesting fact about the Commodore 5141 5 1/2 floppy driver (for the C64) was that the designed it to be compatible with the Vic 20’s 5140 floppy drive for backwards compatibility but due to a bug in the 6522 VIA chip in the 5141 drive, the drive did not work as it should. Given how late in the development process the bug was discovered, rather then replace all the VIA chips in already produced drives to address this flaw, they simply wrote a quick software patch which worked around the hardware bug. The problem was the rushed patch has the unfortunate effect of significantly decreasing the read/write speed of the drive compared with similar floppy drives for other systems such as the Apple II. Had they not insisted on backwards compatibility with the 5140, this would not have been a problem. Fortunately for C64 users, because this problem could be addressed via a software patch, third party developers come up with software quick-loaders that significantly speed up the drive. So I strongly recommend any newly acquired C64 5141 floppy drive owners to seek out a quick-loader for the drive.
You'll notice when I took it off I bent it up at one side then pulled it off. It decided it wanted to pop up again on this side as you saw (very good observations!). I applied a little glue and it is behaving now.
Sous Vide. Get one of those heaters in a sizeable pan and set it to a slightly-above-warm temperature (~55ºC) for a good few hours. Someone suggested that for David Murray's 8-bit Guy channel.
Hello! Thanks for a great video RMC! I recently got back into the great world of the C64 and have been building on my setup as well as collecting games,that I actually play, they don't just sit on a shelf :). I have a small question: Where did you find the amazing plexiglass stand that the monitor rests on? Maybe its a DIY and if so do you have a video on that? Massive big ups and thanks in advance! /Y
O my.that was a bit to hot. does this warming up really help that much in the retro-brighting procedure? then i advice you to use an aquarium thermostat. that is control able much better. nice vid.👍
I think the space bar was definitely smiling. The C64 looks like new. Great work and a great pleasure being a part of this video series. Thanks again and enjoy the C64! :)
Jan Beta well once i saw him throwing those key’s in a pan,well of course it’s obviouse that all the key’s helding against the metal including the space bar will melt.
So ever ever put key’s in a hot metal pan.
I predicted this penalty.
Also i predicted that his tape drive at the moment wouldn’t do anything.
You know, the C64 is one of those special machines which usually brings a smile especially to the 80s/90s kids who have actually played it back in the day... that's not to say that new generations can't enjoy it, but every one has its favorite thing. We didn't have all the eye-candy graphics back then, so it was left to the imagination and brilliant game play to fill in the void. :)
great video Neil - its important (imo) to share both the successes and failures of retrobrighting experiments. great stuff!
Slightly strange comment, but you have one of the most pleasant-to-listen-to voices on TH-cam! It really adds to the videos.
Uk viewer here love,love love your channel..you are the Indiana Jones of the classic computer world..finding old relics and making sure they are preserved fror all to see...
I love that tiny SD card drive.
Came over from Dubious Engineering. Subbed. I had a used one of these as my first computer. I was so fascinated, sat in front of it all day, until late at night, when I toppled off my chair, dizzy because I had not eaten or drank anything all day. I had the floppy disk drive. Mailed it all to a friend in South Africa after finally getting a regular computer. Fond memories.
A great ending to the trilogy. Thanks very much for uploading this series. I must say that I was eagerly awaiting the third installment over the Christmas holidays. It has inspired me to refurbish my own Commodore 64C this Summer. Summer, because I'm going to need all the sunlight I can get. My keys are a much darker shade of brown than yours ever were. I was most interested in seeing your results with the retro-brighting and was as horrified as you probably were to see what happened to that space bar. That's a clear warning for me as I can't afford to damage my original keys - I've had them almost 30 years. A big thanks to Jan Beta for making a cameo appearance in this one on his selection of games and it was a nice touch to start off with the rendition of Jonathan Dunn's most excellent Robocop theme, the same one Charlie Brooker plagiarised for his one-off, _"How Video Games Changed the World"_. I'm eagerly looking forward to your special on retro-brighting those Amiga keys.
jimjamz thanks for watching as always I'm glad you enjoyed it. Today I laid out all of the kit to begin filming that retrobrite experiment so hopefully you will have results some time next week
Even the music in your videos is top notch! Amazing stuff
A great series evoking pre amiga ownership. The videos keep getting better and more polished but with a good chilled vibe. The inclusion of Jan Beta made this 10/10 👍👏
What a great project! Way to go RMC! I have never seen that Retr0Brite technique before. It scares me a bit, but also very exciting. I think the space bar was frowning, but hopefully you can turn that frown upside down! You look like Walter White with that setup! ha ha! Looking forward to the A500 Retr0Brite episode. Great work as always! -- AmigaBill
I like your taste in music. It gives your channel a kind of 80's/90's vibe which reminds me of my childhood.
Thank you for watching, I've really enjoyed getting the C64c up together and am working through your suggestions to play. Some really great titles suggested! If you're interested in the SD2IEC you can find the developer here sd2iec.de/ and I purchased the version by TFW8B here www.thefuturewas8bit.com - And you can see the Wiki to read what is and isn't supported by the device here www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/sd2iec_(firmware) - Take care! Neil - RMC
Now I want a 64C! I stole parts out of my 64 15 years ago to fix a customer's machine - now I doubt it works. Time to get it out of storage and fix it! Thanks for the motivation!
The 1541 was common here in the US. I had/still have it on mine, and only knew one person that had the cassette deck with his. Great series, and I plan to get my C64 back up and going as soon as I get a power saver for it.
Thanks, Neil you made me feel all fuzzy remembering my C128 and the hours of fun and enjoyment without having to spend 60 quid for a game or waiting ages for updates!
Nice video all about your adventreus with the C64c. Nice to see lots of cool games in the video. The 1541 drive sure is a beast. Here in the UK you had a badge of honour back in the day if you had one. Everyone pretty much woked from tape. It's good that we have many options out there to load games and keep the C64 alive.
Your comment has reminded me that back in around 1982/83 when I worked in a small computer shop in Banbury (UK), the original Commodore disk drive (1540?) could actually take longer to load games than the official cassette drive!! :-D Its so long ago now that it's a bit of a blur, but yeah... some C64 games were just too much for the original version of the disk-drive, and so took longer to load than the cassette version - which seemed crazy at the time!! :-)
My favorite computer ever, i loved it so much. Played games hours on it, learning basic *pun here* skills of programming and typing with both hands.
The Tapedecks where a nightmare i whas so happy with my 1st (white) 5,25 floppy drive, that whas a cheap clone that died every few months and the store keep giving me a replacement every time my father whent back to complain about it. We had a cutter for these floppys, so we could turn it around and use the backside too for storage.
The later in i think the final stage of the system i got a 3.5 floppy diskdrive but those floppys where so expensive at the time.
C64 i a big part of my teens (i whas around 12/13 when i got it and sold it when i whas around 19) and always a great memory of a no worries time.
Thank you so much for making this great video its so good to see that people still care about this system :)
+RDJ 134 thank you for sharing your memories RDJ it's always nice to see your comments here
Back in 1985, none of the C64 owners in my area owned a 1541, it was all tapes. When we exchanged softwares (cough…) each Datasette would have its reading head at a different height setting. So either you use it with the top half of the case off, or enlargened the access hole for the setscrew. Option one was what I used. ^^)
I know that problem, we had a creative solution for that, we volt (i hope i pronounce this well) a piece of paper until it reached the right hight. Afcourse it whent wrong from time to time with the result of a damaged tape and some one beeing realy mad for it. Other option whas a double tape deck to copy the tapes :) Such a good times then.
The uberchampion of programming from our den wrote a little compressing tool called HGR Turbo Copy, which displayed the signal the take read in red and black beams on the screen and also played the signal as audio. you could see and hear when the signal came good. ^^)
Actually, I guess I may still have the tape with it. I have to check.:oD I didn´t touch my C64 in over ten years, I guess I finally have a reason to do so..
Loved this video, it was very well done and the C64 looks like its being played for the first time from new.
This was fantastic, thank you for the enjoyable nearly 20 minutes of viewing.
Thank you for watching Troy
A doll-sized "1541"; how cute!
RMC you killed the spacebar luckily there are a few around. It's a great looking machine and now you have the original c64 decal it does make all the difference. A good series of episodes well thought out and excellently executed with the guest appearance from my friend Jan beta. Good work RMC....😁Kim
I know, we'll have to hold a service for it to say goodbye. Thanks Kim!
I really enjoyed the video the Small Retro "Disk Drive" made me LOL. Awesome content. Thanks.
Nice choice on the opening background music. Of all the Robocop title remixes, that one is my favorite. The artist did just a superb job remixing!
Yea Jan Beta!!! Great cameo! And thanks for allowing us to learn from your mistakes RMC! I was really hoping that retrobrite method would have worked. Ahhh well. Everything else looks fantastic.
Just been thinking - it would be great to see how well the bread bin keys would do under the same sort of process. As I'm sure you're aware of - is the markings on the keys end up rather yellowish.
Interesting. I don't have any breadbin keys currently but I'll keep it in mind.
An excellent conclusion to this series. Ah, the trials and tribulations of retrobriting -- and thanks for not shying away from the mistakes; that's how we all learn -- I'm with Jan Beta and say the space bar is smiling. Beach Head was one of my favourites, as well -- I loved that each level was a completely different style of gameplay. Great work again, and I continue to enjoy the new 2018 Cave!
+MindFlareRetro thank you sir as always for watching and your thoughts
Beach Head stands out in my mind because it chided me for copying it.
Came here to say this. It would be so tempting and easy for a creator to skip over mistakes and issues, if for no other reason than to protect one's pride. However it means so much more to show the mistakes. Nice work, as always :)
emptythevoid _ thanks! The way I see it if I share a mistake it may save 5 others from repeating it, and keep more old classics in service. A sacrifice to the C64 gods.
Superb video. So well timed because I was thinking of getting a C64. Thanks for letting us know about these cool modern additions, but I did go for a Grey Fast Loader Cartridge to better fit with the colour scheme, rather than a bright green one. Also I replaced the Power Supply with a modern C64 equivalent (protection built-in)...As for favourite games, Dropzone, Monty on the run, International Karate+ and Wizball. Plus modern games like Sam's Journey.
OMG, that SD card reader is adorable!!!! I want one (and an old school C64 to go with it).
What a great restoration and keeping the 8bit dream going. So many great games to choose from you'll have many of great hours of fun playing with your new toy. Not shore if it would help but you can put a couple of sheets of kitchen roll in the bottom of the pan to help keep it from being in contact with the bottom of the pan. Looking forward to your next video in the cave
Thanks for the suggestion Mark and for watching, I'll certainly consider that when I look into retrobriting those Amiga keys soon
I suffered the same problem with the space bar-learning the hard way.Good video as always,love it.
although the solution may have been at 70-80 deg, the steel pan bottom is in contact with the heating plate underneath and may be way hotter than the liquid. How about putting the solution in a bowl and heating it over a pan of water below.
A good point and something I should include in the episode I make to explore it further, thank you for the suggestion
Thats a good suggestion. It was definitely too much heat, real shame. 70c is the MAX, though. 60c maybe safer. Going to be experimenting soon.
Why not re-heat the space bar in water then clamp it down flat and "in shape" while it cools? would that work do you think?
This is what I tried in the video, before I clamped it I reheated it but with no luck. I do still have it so maybe I'll think of something but I think it may be a lost cause
I wonder if you could make a plaster mould of a space bar key in the correct shape, then using a heat gun/ hot water soften the bent one and put it into the correct shape mould?
The best DIY content is content that shared the mistakes... No project even is finished without at least 1.
I also managed to spoil a set of C64 breadbin keys with peroxide. Some got too hot and bleached. This is really bad as the breadbin keys are dark brown. We live and learn.
Anyway, thumbs-up for another fine video. And don't think we didn't notice your "other side of the cave" comment ;-)
I personally did the peroxide cream method you used, but instead of sunshine I used a UV light that I had suspended above it. I left it in the dark without any obstruction of other light sources for 16-32 hours (it can vary on how much yellowing you're removing, it's best to check up every couple of hours). Even reapplied the peroxide cream once or twice more before leaving it under again but it worked extremely well! Didn't do this on computer parts, but I did do it with Sega Dreamcast and Nintendo NES console cases that were both rather yellowed and they turned out well. Hope you found this helpful! Really enjoy the videos!
+Troy Faubert thanks Troy, it's good to hear it's possible with a light alone. It would be good to find a way to accelerate that process if we can
I recently had good success with standard 3% peroxide, no further water added, at 150 degrees Fahrenheit for 4 hours. No key warping at all and definitely brightened all the keys up to a good level. No cover needed. Only a couple of keys have minor yellow left. You do need to monitor temperature and reduce heat accordingly.
+James Grubic thanks for sharing your experience that's positive to hear, I hope to experiment more next week
Great stuff. I totally want to pick up one and restore it for nostalgia.
+Animal Facts thanks, there are lots out there so you should be able to get a bargain and fix her up
Diggin the 80's AOR tune in the background.
I have fond memories seeying a c64 for the first time at my friend's house. He was playing ninja spirits, quite a decent port.
Great vid ! I remember getting one back in the day, my brother had the plus 4,
Oh yes. the music you chose for this episode was fantastic. Robocop, Last ninja 3 and Great Giana Sisters be great taste. and great restoration too.
Think I have my c64 breadbin somewhere. Not been used for over 20 years. Had a good selection of games too. Your right about the cassettes being more popular over here. Must dig it out and see if it still works. If so I’ll have to try and fix the port 2 issue it had. Wouldn’t turn left on port 2. Think it needs a chip replacing if I remember rightly
Save the C64 Sparkles! Sounds like it could be a dodgy CIA chip or dry joints on the joystick port.
Or it could be a broken pin in the connector. To fit them inside the breadbin, the pins on the joystick port are bent at a 90-degree angle before they connect to the system board. I've had the joystick port on my VIC-20 break like that.
The good news is that the pin for "Left" is one of the top 5. The bottom 4 (which includes the fire button, ground/earth, and +5V line) are *much* harder to repair because of the design of the plastic shield that was designed (ironically) to prevent this exact kind of breakage.
I once build and entire 486sx desktop computer into a 1541 case from a broken drive.... Including the powerbrick. These things are enormous!
That sounds like a great project, do you still have it and are you in the UK?
Alas no, I think it went with the rest of my collection.. Still a bit miffed about that actually.
I think I build it mid noughties. I remember that I married it to an IBM monitor. A monster 15" beast with an incredibly strong rising foot mechanism that seemed to defy gravity. It was one of my DIY all-in-ones.
I'm from the Netherlands by the way, so close enough! Put the UK on it's side and you're practically there!
Sweet baby Jesus that DD is redonkulous. It makes me think of how far technology has come. Even so, as I seem to recall it was massive for the time as well!!
Yeah, that's because the power supply was internal. Also, it was a "smart" drive... it had its own CPU, 2k of RAM, and 6522 I/O chips, so there was a lot of circuitry in there as well. The 1541-II moved the power supply to an external power brick. That's why it's so much smaller.
Brilliant as always. The games back then were so simple to understand. Kids today expect too much. (god I sound like my dad)
The old case badge still had the factory protective film on it!? How lucky were you? Hard to imagine it's lasted over 20 years. Wow!
"Drop Zone" (Buggy Boy as Jan Beta said) "Gremlins" the text adventure game.. "The Last Ninja" games.. "Uridium" and "Uridium plus".. "Jack the Nipper".. "Aztec Adventure".. I could go on all day with games that you could play on your Commodore 64.. 1000's to choose from (some crap but lots of good ones) I am still exploring the C64 software today, back in the early to mid 80's I must of played about 400+ games that my brother had on tapes in his draw, copies and originals..
Wow. Those screen shots of games like Ghostbusters gave me some great memory’s
awww that SD extension is so adorable! and so is the SD card itself!
"Please press banana-key to continue" :D
Ichinin hahaha refering to that melted space bar right? XD.
LOL İMAO
Great episode!
Germany as well had the 1541 as the most common method to handle your files. (And the C64 was really, really popular in Germany.) The datasette remained more of a mystery for me. But I remember someone having one and showing it to me, I was in awe!
When everyone is talking about the games we played on the C64 I don't know why no one ever mentions MY favorite games. Advanced Dungeons and Dragons: Pool of Radiance and The Hunt for Red October. I played these two games to DEATH and still loved them. Anyone else???
4:56 - Ah man, that is brutal but you live and you learn.
Have you considering using a mixture of black light and/or halogen light for retrobriting as both sources emit good and safe levels of stable UV light, compared to the anaemic levels of sun on our island, but halogen light offers heat that is also central to the process too, so maybe a small 800w heater with the temperature/distance monitored could work.
Another great vid.
4:28 remember to always wear suit and tie during retrobrighting operations
clray123 dress for the position you strive for, not the job you do 👌
Charmingly awesome. I'm swimming in the depths of my sweet C64 memories now, inspired by the movie, so please excuse me the lack of words in this opinion. :)
BTW. In 1995 a school colleague adviced me to buy a 386 PC. I got a 1541-II and joined the demoscene instead. Disk drive was that much better than a datassette and gave my C64 a completely new life and an unseen level of user-friendliness.
I'm not sure anyone mentioned: Flimbo's Quest?
Ultima IV was the game I played the most on my C64C. Only because you couldn't look up hints online. There was no online. So many good games on the C64. The Summer/Winter/World/California Games (etc.) were always fun. Maniac Mansion is a classic. As Is Zak McKracken. Impossible Mission was great. That scream was something else. Neuromancer was probably one of my all time favourite games. Space Taxi is another classic.
Very nice video, your C-64c looks brand new :) I had tape drive with my C-64c but it actually was a 3rd party "clone". Just tried to google pics of it but couldn't find any just like my tape drive was.
Loving the background music to this piece! Ocean Robocop remix? Keep up the excellent work!
+James Langridge yes indeed credit is in the opening seconds. Thank you for watching glad you enjoyed it
Brings back memories, My first computers was a used Vic 20, followed by a used (rounded) C64, then a new C64 just like this one, both the Vic 20 and the 1st C64 came with tape drives, the newer C64 had a floppy drive.
Watching this made me realize how seldom we see Jan Beta's face - usually just hands or an over the shoulder view!
Great job. Looking sweet. I Still have a boxed Terminator 2 edition C64. Never opened. Picked it up for peanuts years ago. Its staying sealed in the box but If I ever have more space, I'd love to get my hands on a breadbin C64.
Looks awesome. I prefer the bread bin version but there is no replacement case so that kind of stinks.
Awesome video! BEST so far!
That's exactly what I did to my a1200 space bar, but luckily not warped it much as yours! I used a slow cooker from tesco, very cheap and with a lid ;) it,s perfect. Beware though, my brown keys got bleached too, and some of them went a lot lighter than I thought was possible so maybe do the white ones and dark ones separate. I think I may have used too strong a mix of peroxide. Good job on the restoration 👍🏼
Love your videos... Very satisfying, Thanks! :-) Greetings from Germany!
Great job! That space bar had to die in the name of science! :o)
Funny! I'm playing the Apple version of Ultima II as I watched you start up Aklabeth. :D (I just finished Ultima I over the weekend)
Such awesome memories. Thanks!
have you ever considered trying one of those small UV lamps they use at beauticians? They are used for drying nail varnish and they cost about 15 to 20 quid. You'd only fit about half they keys in it but could be worth a go.
+MrTravisHighrise nice idea, do you think they would handle 4 hours continuous use though :/
don't know, but I don't think imaginethey draw a lot of power or run very hot. They have them in nail bars and I guess they run them all day with different people getting their nails done.
MrTravisHighrise interesting... I'll look into them
I guess you can also justify it by gifting it to Mrs ManCave and then borrowing it :)
What kind of looks do you get purchasing the hair peroxide? Could you use a blacklight or other lamp for retrobright?
I try to buy online where possible! I'm exploring lights as an option, and possible a combination of the two methods. Lots to experiment with.
Pit stop II:) much luv and my C64 from my childhood.
Would it be possible to maybe supply the UV light needed for 'outdoor' retro-brighting but indoors. Maybe just in a large box or something, mount as many UV tubes as you can fit in the lid of a box and close it up?
eggypickle I believe people now think the UV does nothing, and that it is the heat alone that activates the reaction. The 8 bit guy did a video on it recently.
Didn't know that, I'll go check it out. Thanks
Wow. I would never had thought Stunt Car Racer would look so good on the C64. Almost as good as the Amiga version I played as a kid.
Another great Video, loving the content, brings back lots of memories from the 80's/90's.
Have you ever thought about doing any content on arcade machines from the time, I know the pure size of the things would be a nightmare but always wandered what was actually inside them? As a lot of the games where adapted for home computers at the time, I often wander if the computers where made by the pioneers of the speccy and the Commodore??
Thanks for watching! I've owned a couple of JAMMA cabinets and converted them to MAME in the past, taking a look at some original arcade boards might be a fun idea, I'll have a think on that thanks for the suggestion.
+Ginger Ninja FPV A lot of that information is available on the Internet from people who specialize in restoring arcade cabinets.
I can tell you that the CPU used in the video games were mostly similar to the ones that were popular in home computers. The earliest arcade games (late 1970s) used the Intel 8080, but that was quickly superceded by the Zilog Z80. Atari used 6502 CPUs in most of their early arcade machines.
Later games (like most of Capcom's games from the early 1990s) used two processors, one of which was usually a generation behind the main CPU. For example, the Capcom games used a Motorola 68000 main CPU, with a Zilog Z80 for sound.
Then, finally, in the 2000s, they started using RISC-based MIPS processors. Arcades are still thriving in Japan, so there are still a few arcade games being made, mostly by Japanese manufacturers. Most of these use modified PC-based hardware with a high-end graphics card.
OMG, Pitstop II... we played that so much and the joysticks got a tanking as we tried to turn steep corners, despite knowing it was a digital input.
immersion circulator. Put in a closed loop bath. Strap a lid on it. You could discolour anything that would fit in a bathtub.
15:35 this game is interlaced? Why? :o
This is a direct capture from the C64 which has then been scaled up for the video, so you may be seeing the effects of scaling or compression from the capture, but it's not interlaced on the TV while playing it. Thanks for watching.
I thought it was captured from a TFT screen, as I get the same artifacts when I view the C64 on it. CRT is the best way to play.
i have a terminator 2 edition C64 sat in my mums loft, must not of been touched in over 20years.......i might go digging
Nice! The white 1541 diskdrive was not styled after the C64C, but the VIC20. It was released way before the C64, actually.
Fantastic Work! The amazing C64 deserve! Awesome video, keep going with the good workk! ;)
maybe make a wooden "jig" a board with bits of wood on it. that leave a space thats right for the space bar. heat the space bar up again. then put it in the wooden jig, till it cools. might go back to the right shape
That space bar looked like it was belonged to those ergonomic keyboards.
Also, I bet that all of the software released on C64, including new ones made by the community after its 10+ years of commercial life would fit on a 2GB SD card uncompressed.
Racing Destruction Set
The 1541 really was a ridiculously large disk drive even back then - but then it also is not only a disk drive, it contains a whole separate computer. I remember that back then I had a disk copy program for two 1541 (drive 8 and 9) which loaded itself into the RAM of the floppy drives, and after that you could disconnect the drives from the C64 (so you could play games on it while copying) and the drives could copy disks on their own (i.e. they recognized when you inserted a source and target floppy and started the copy process automatically).
+freibier that's a very good point it has its own 6502 CPU inside it as well, quite the bit of kit. Thanks for sharing your memories. All legit copying activities I'm sure.
Uhm, mostly legit I think, my memories are a bit hazy :-) We did buy games, but only the super top titles we knew would be awesome and last a long time. For me, that was mostly RPGs, like my prized Ultima 3 / 4 / 5 boxes with the cloth maps, gimmick items and thick manuals, or the TSR "Gold Box" games. Or Bard's Tale, which came in a very pretty LP Sleeve packaging. It is interesting that so many say they only had the datasette - here in Germany, the C64 was the computer everybody had (no Spectrum people around and Atari was only a thing during the Amiga/ST time), and everybody who had a C64 also had a 1541.
Another great video. By the way did anyone notice that the word physical was misspelled in the manual? Lol... Buggy Boy was a fantastic game. I spent many summer nights playing it and also playing Emlyn Hughes International Soccer. Thanks for the video!
Nobody has mentioned that! Good spot sir!
For the spacebar key have you tried the heat gun?
Jan did an amazing video on restoring the PSU's. I haven't tried it yet but it surely sounds like a better idea to me than 30 - 40 dollars on a new psu or saver.
He's a great guy, and both options are great to have available for C64 lovers of all skill levels
Another cracking job, but I can't take my eyes off that slightly yellowed replacement spacebar!
Thanks Andy, I'll get that fixed when we go on our retrobriting adventures soon. I didn't want to risk bending another space bar. In person it's hardly discernible but the studio lights do highlight it a bit. Thanks for watching
Here in New Zealand the disk drive was quite common, no one I knew with a c64 used their tape drives except to load mag cover game demo tapes XD
Do a review on the 128D
TechBaron, Cameras and more! I would if I had one :)
The heat method also destroyed somethings when i tried.
A good at keyboard was lost on my case.
Nice video man. I haven't spent much time on the C64. I've got one here with the original 1802 monitor and a member of the community was kind enough to make and send me a replacement power supply so I didn't have to worry about frying chips with a bad 5V line. I have the MKII floppy disc drive which strangely wont load games if i put it close to the monitor? I 100% have to invest in the SD2IEC or an ultimate cart.
+John-Paul Parker thanks! I'd like to try an Ultimate cart they look pretty neat but for the price the sd2iec is pretty sweet
+John-Paul Parker From the sound of things the monitor is putting out a *lot* of RF interference... enough to interfere with the disc drive's electronics. Your comment suggests that it works as long as the drive is far enough away from the monitor. If it bugs you and you really want to be sure, though, start with something simple like taping a layer of aluminum foil to the side of your monitor, or surrounding the drive with a wire mesh cage (a "Faraday cage"). If the problem goes away, you've found the culprit.
Quick note about the evaporation problem. I think that Peroxide has a higher boiling point than water. So it could be possible that you were boiling off the water and leaving more peroxide heavy solution. Then you would add more peroxide and water solution. So over time it's possible you ended up with a higher concentration of peroxide than you were planning on. I am not 100% sure this is the case, just thought of it when watching. A lid would fix it, as you stated. But I thought it might be interesting to keep in mind for future projects.
+Nick Young that's a good point I should find out what the boiling temp is for the peroxide thanks
Maybe if you straight that spacebar with clamps while you heat it carefully with a heating gun... ¿?
Excellent videos. I enjoy them a lot.
Just a couple of interesting trivia bits regarding the C64. You mentioned that compact data cassettes and ROM cartridges where the more popular method of loading/saving software/files in the U.K. Vs the 5 1/2 floppy drive that dominated the home computer market much sooner in the U.S.. My understanding is that this was due to high import taxes in the U.K. Vs the U.S. such that once the cost of making the floppy drives came down in general, home computer users the U.S. was quicker to switch to them whereas import taxes made cassettes and cartridges the significantly cheaper option in the U.K. For all except for business computer users willing and able to effort the higher cost. Another interesting fact about the Commodore 5141 5 1/2 floppy driver (for the C64) was that the designed it to be compatible with the Vic 20’s 5140 floppy drive for backwards compatibility but due to a bug in the 6522 VIA chip in the 5141 drive, the drive did not work as it should. Given how late in the development process the bug was discovered, rather then replace all the VIA chips in already produced drives to address this flaw, they simply wrote a quick software patch which worked around the hardware bug. The problem was the rushed patch has the unfortunate effect of significantly decreasing the read/write speed of the drive compared with similar floppy drives for other systems such as the Apple II. Had they not insisted on backwards compatibility with the 5140, this would not have been a problem. Fortunately for C64 users, because this problem could be addressed via a software patch, third party developers come up with software quick-loaders that significantly speed up the drive. So I strongly recommend any newly acquired C64 5141 floppy drive owners to seek out a quick-loader for the drive.
Sticker is not holding anymore on right side.
You'll notice when I took it off I bent it up at one side then pulled it off. It decided it wanted to pop up again on this side as you saw (very good observations!). I applied a little glue and it is behaving now.
Try using a bit of string to pull under the sticker, it will cut the glue without bending the badge.
Sous Vide. Get one of those heaters in a sizeable pan and set it to a slightly-above-warm temperature (~55ºC) for a good few hours.
Someone suggested that for David Murray's 8-bit Guy channel.
+Alex Ogle there is ond on my desk and it will appear in next weeks video 👍
Hello!
Thanks for a great video RMC! I recently got back into the great world of the C64 and have been building on my setup as well as collecting games,that I actually play, they don't just sit on a shelf :). I have a small question: Where did you find the amazing plexiglass stand that the monitor rests on? Maybe its a DIY and if so do you have a video on that? Massive big ups and thanks in advance!
/Y
Man, I love the SID chip in C64C. To me, it sounds so much better than the original C64. Matter of opinion, though.
O my.that was a bit to hot. does this warming up really help that much in the retro-brighting procedure?
then i advice you to use an aquarium thermostat. that is control able much better. nice vid.👍
Yay! Jan Beta!!!
Paul Chambers we loved having Jan in the cave for this series. Great channel