Languages beyond the Roman Frontier: Part 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ม.ค. 2024
- Unlike the Mediterranean, northern Europe was poorly known to ancient scholars and explorers, so most of or our knowledge comes from second hand, or medieval accounts.
But using linguistic reconstruction and toponymy, traces of possible earlier substrates can be seen, giving us a glimpse of lost peoples and languages of ancient northern Europe.
![ตัวอย่างภาพยนตร์ #Venom: The Last Dance [Official - Sub Thai]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DHPjvAwmnRE/mqdefault.jpg)
Thank god that Tacitus's book Germania survived, even if it was down to just one copy. It has given us a priceless snapshot of Europe beyond Rome's borders.
If I could bring one book back in to existance the originial Gemania would be it.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714Etruscan dictionary still gets my vote, but this is a close second.
Det här var den mest spännande videon jag sett om språk på ett långt tag.
One important fact of the past was the much lower population density. With fewer people living in small groups, these individual isolated groups they could developed their own linguistic individuality and complexity.
To avoid inbreeding and get metal these groups had to interact so if they where of common origin their groups likely still preserved a classic dialect continuum with every village speaking differently but every village understanding the speach of the next one.
@@baltulielkungsgunarsmiezis9714Yep, trade networks were extensive & the powers in these nations decentralized. I think this might be a reason why the dialects remained consistent, but that could also be a result of poor documentation too, who knows.
This youtube channel is a goldmine, I am happy I discovered this.
As a Frisian travelling through Finland I noticed they used the word sipelja (or something like that) in Frisian it's sipel.
But in Dutch it's ui, in English it's union, in German it's swiebel.
So there's sort of connection there
It's related to Spanish "cebolla" and Polish "cebula"...all come from Latin.
@@erichamilton3373 thanks, didn't know that
bûke!
@@JB-pk8vm Baaske!
sipuli Borrowed from Late Old Swedish sipul (“red onion”), sipol, akin to German Zwiebel, ultimately from Late Latin cepulla
Congratulations on your first video to reach 1k views!
That Belgic looks closer to Italic than anything else.
Paleo-Laplandic doesn't belong to southern Scandinavia, but is thought to have existed in northern Scandinavia in late Roman times and later being replaced when Sami people moved in.
The language of southern Scandinavia was proto-Norse (a dialect continuum, most likely), closely related to proto-Germanic. Older, non-PIE languages must have existed in southern Scandinavia but were surely long gone by Roman times since there's hardly any trace if them, yet southern Scandinavia was populated before it was settled by Indo-European speakers.
I put it into more of a central place on the map since it would not fit into the image otherwise, but you are right.
Southern Scandinavia was thoroughly IE long before that time, with perhaps pitted-ware languages maybe holding out in peripheral areas in the early bronze age at the latest. But that is still a generous estimate. The earlier neolithic farmers almost completely vanished.
I have had a question for a very long time whose answer I haven't had the patience to dig up, so i'll seek it here: how are the indo-european language families interrelated? I know Italic and Celtic are quite close, but it would be very interesting to see for example the distance between proto-Germanic and proto-Slavic versus the distance between proto-Slavic and proto-Indoiranian. This has always interested me since finding out that slavic languages are satem - and although I now know that doesn't really say much about the genealogy of the language family, the question has always lingered. Has any work been done on this that I can check out?
Good question.
PIE is an artificial reconstruction based on guesing, such language never existed, though. Slavic or if one wants old Slavic, being the oldest language of Europe is the mother tongue of Romance and Germanic languages. All Europe toponimes and especially hydronimes confirm this premise. See few examples to this statement, English and Latin basic words that come from Slavic..
What is the etymology of English word "to write"? The simple answer: Slavic word "wryte" meaning "to carve".
What is the etymology of Latin word "scribe"? a.: Slavic word, infinitive "skrobat"
These two examples show Old Slavic language predates both English and Latin languages i.e. Slavic language is the true mother tongue of Europe.
Knowledge in Slavic is VEDA, same as in Sanskrit. From this root-word comes "education" whereas letter "v" got dropped.
English "weather" comes from Slavic "wiater", "to rape" from "rypat".
@@Lechoslaw8546 damn ive heard of Hindu linguistic supremacists, but never Slavic linguistic supremacists. And I thought I was very pro Slavicism
@@jeremias-serus He is probadly a believer of Great Lechia, an ancient great empire that ruled most of Eurasia in the distant past. Here in Poland we call them ''turbo-slavs".
@@Lechoslaw8546 You are an 1d10t....And this is certain!
Do you give me some sources on the controversy about the Proto-Germanic urheimat? Can't find any other than the (apparently) unreliable Wikipedia entry that it's the Jastorf culture.
@@tidsdjupet-mr5ud Thanks!
adw-goe.de/fileadmin/forschungsprojekte/ortsnamen_rhein_elbe/dokumente/Publikationen_Udolph_PDF/2001-2005/283._Udolph_Nordic_Germanic_Indoeuropean_and_the_structure_of_the_Germanic_language_family._The_Nordic_Languages.pdf
I would see a relationship between slavic svoboda and Estonian vabadus (Finnish vapaus) - but no clue which one is older.
Vadabus: from vaba + the suffix -dus. "Vaba" comes from Old East Slavic свободь
Vapaus: from vapaa + -uus. "Vapaa" comes from Proto-Finnic *vapada, which is probably borrowed from early PS *svabada
According to these etymologies the Finnish loan is older
Source: Wiktionary
Very interested in those shadowy pre IE languages in Scandinavia that you mention. Please post more about those. Britannia was a Roman backwater? Constantine the Great was proclaimed Emperor in York. One question which you could perhaps answer is this: When Caesar, in Commentarii de Bello Gallico says that the people south of the Thames (Belgae, Atrobates, Regni, Cantiae) spoke the same language as their continental cousins: did he mean they spoke a Germanic or a Gaulish language? If he meant a Germanic one, then you must conclude that a form of Proto English existed, at least in the South of Britain, before the Roman Conquest: and that would change the whole debate on Brithonic versus Anglo Saxon history in Britain.
I meant more Britannia as a part of the British isles, which weren't subjugated as a whole region by Rome, with Hadrianus wall and all that.
You can read more here:
www.academia.edu/4811770
www.academia.edu/38396354
there’s no evidence to suggest medieval Anglo-Saxon dialects originated in a Germanic language extant in Britain before the Roman Period, and there is nothing in the comparative analysis of Old English with her closest continental relatives that contradicts an arrival of OE in Britain during the Migration Period
Germanic broke up intro separate languages fairly late, it is only really Gothic that goes its own way early on.
@@marsh2537
@@marsh2537 There was however development on the island, so it might be wrong to say that OE arrived.
Seeing tel- as meaning caff I immedietly think, yea we latvieši say teļš so just palatalize the l and add the ending -š.
this was wall put to W
In what sense was the province of Britannia 'never fully integrated into the Roman Empire'? An odd statement.
I should have said "the British Isles"
I know you named some authors in the video, but is there maybe a specific work you would recommend to read up on these lesser covered languages?
"A linguistic map of prehistoric northern Europe," 2012. So many amazing chapters, all free online!
@@danielbriggs991 Thank you so much!
Nordwestblock is Tarshish in the Bible
no
Where does the word Germany come from? In Lithuanian it is said like this Geri-man And translate good for me
Germany comes from Latin 'Germania'
@@Nastya_07The real history of Europe is not what the monks recorded in their writings, such as the dates of the great massacres and occupations. This is only an interpretation but not reality. Germanai after baptism Vokiečiai(vogti ietis)it means(to steal spears from) Human history is human language
@@raimundas2204 Ive heard it said that Germania comes from latin meanining something along the lines of land of the blood breathren.
Our latviešu word is Vācija or Vāczeme named after the people vācieši which means something along the lines of gatherers or takers cos the german knights came to our lands and took our stuff.
We balti having a different name for it doesnt mean the latin way is wrong or some kind of forgery.
What is the etymology of English word "to write"? The simple answer: Slavic word "wryte" meaning "to carve".
What is the etymology of Latin word "scribe"? a.: Slavic word, infinitive "skrobat"
These two examples show Old Slavic language predates both English and Latin languages i.e. Slavic language is the true mother tongue of Europe.
Knowledge in Slavic is VEDA, same as in Sanskrit. From this root-word comes "education" whereas letter "v" got dropped.
English "weather" comes from Slavic "wiater", "to rape" from "rypat".
maybe they just had a common ancestor in PIE??
Yeap...The slavs take it from latin and proto-german!!! GFYS!
Why would they loan a word that means 'to carve' and change its meaning into 'to write'? The simple answer: because they already had their own word for 'to carve'. So in fact this example proves the opposite of what you imply, that the two proto-languages coexisted and that neither is a derivative of the other one.
@@romaliop Apparently this word can be 4,5 thousand year old, and come from Bell Beaker culture folks. That time Britain was populated by protoSlavic people, who also left behind many river names like Thames, the dark river. I am not sure whether protoSlavic was directly related to P-Celtic, but I am sure it was not directly related to Q-Celtic, of course all these languages were Indo-European.
@@cosmincasuta486 th-cam.com/video/jdnyLArUqd4/w-d-xo.html Slavic and Balto-Slavic languages are closest to Sanskrit of all Europe languages. th-cam.com/video/ptDVaVlw9m4/w-d-xo.html
Vast majority of European hydronimes are Slavic, including such names as Thames, Po, Danube, Main, Rhein, Vesle, Drava, Wisła, Odra, Volga, Dneper. Several rivers in the British Isles carry Slavic names /just as an example/. Anybody who wishes to challenge this statement is welcome.
You can "derive" literally anything from any language if you try hard enough.
@@pikaia1504 No, you can not. But if you think you can, go ahead and do it.
Lmao so true
I'll challenge it if you like: Presumably you accept that Slavic is an IE language with its roots in PIE. If so what is this linguistic nationalism all about? The origins must be from the PIE homeland. By noticing that there are cognates between Slavic and Germanic or Brithonic place names, all that you are doing is noticing that they are branches on the same tree. Linguistics is not a nationalistic war.
@@michaelsargeaunt Instead of accusing me of "nationalism" and other witchcraft, come forward with a real argument. So far, all you are able to do is using slurs against me, and actually this is exactly what you are accusing me of, ugly nationalism.