The Prince of Wales: What Everybody Gets Wrong
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- The Prince of Wales is a title that has been given to the heirs of the British and English throne for over 700 years, yet the origins of this title are much older than that.
Most people do not know the original Welsh history of the title, and how its creation impacted the history of Wales, and unfortunately most online coverage of the history of the Prince of Wales gets it completely wrong.
So today I'm seeking to explain the Welsh history of the Prince of Wales, who was the first Prince of Wales, and why the heir to the British throne is called the Prince of Wales.
See how Owain Gwynedd defeated two English armies and almost killed the king of England: • England's Embarrassing...
Chapters:
0:00 - Princeps Wallie
5:35 - Tywysog Cymru
12:14 - The Prince of Wales
Sources:
Davies, J. (2007). A History of Wales. London: Penguin, pp.125-231.
Maund, K. (2006). The Welsh Kings. 3rd ed. United Kingdom: The History Press Ltd, pp.153-229.
Pryce, H. (2010). Acts of the Welsh Rulers 1120-1283. Cardiff: University of Wales Press, pp.74-79.
Davies, R.R. (2000). The Age of Conquest: Wales, 1063-1415. Oxford University Press, p.44.
Jones, F. (1969). The Historical Background to the Investiture. Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion. pp.25-47
Evans, D.L. (1925-1926). Some Notes on the History of the Principality of Wales in the Time of the Black Prince. Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion. pp.28-30
Ellis, J.S. (1996). The Prince and the Dragon: Welsh National Identity and the 1911 Investiture of the Prince of Wales. Welsh History Review, 18(1), pp.272-294.
Morris, R.H. (1911). The Investiture of the Prince of Wales. Archaeologia Cambrensis, 11(9), p.220.
Morris, R.H. (1911). The Investiture of the Prince of Wales - III. Archaeologia Cambrensis, 11(9), pp.381-382.
Maud, R. (1968). David, the Last Prince of Wales. Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, 1, pp.43-62.
Dodd, M.H. (1970). Nationalism in Wales: a Historical Assessment. Transactions of the Honourable Society of Cymmrodorion, 1, pp.40-41.
Thornton, T. (2000). Dynasty and Territory in the Early Modern Period: the Princes of Wales and Their Western British Inheritance. Welsh History Review, 20(1), pp.1-4.
Pryce, H. (1998). Owain Gwynedd and Louis VII: the Franco-Welsh Diplomacy of the First Prince of Wales. Welsh History Review, 19(1), pp.1-28.
Source for the map of the Principality of Wales and the Marcher Lords: a 'A History of Wales' by John Davies, page 227, and commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi... (XrysD, CC BY-SA 4.0, via Wikimedia Commons).
YouGov for ITV (2022/9/26). Prince of Wales: Majority back title for Prince William but investiture proves unpopular. ITV. www.itv.com/news/wales/2022-0....
Maps:
© OpenStreetMap contributors, licensed under CC BY-SA: www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
www.floodmap.net/
Music:
'It's Always Too Late to Start Over', 'Rewound', ' • Hitchcock Would Have F... ', 'John Stockton Slow Drag', 'Divider', 'But Enough About Me, Bill Paxton' by Chris Zabriskie are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 licence. creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Source: chriszabriskie.com/dtv/
Artist: chriszabriskie.com/
Images (Changes have been made):
Arms of the Prince of Wales - Sodacan, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons
Dwanye Johnson - Eva Rinaldi Celebrity and Live Music Photographer, CC BY-SA 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Wikipedia Screenshot - CC BY-SA 3.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Owain Gwynedd - National Library of Wales, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
Louis VII - Alonso de Mendoza, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
Gruffydd ap Cynan, Hogweard, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
Vexilloid - Ssolbergj, CC BY 3.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
Rhys ap Gruffydd - NLW, CC0
The History of Cambria - NLW, CC0
Llywelyn Fawr - Rhion Pritchard, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
Simon de Montfort - NotFromUtrecht, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons
Edward I - NLW, CC0
Flame Bearers of Welsh History - NLW, CC0
Arms of Llywelyn - Sodacan, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons
Owain Glyndwr - NLW, CC0
Edward II and Edward III - Hendrick Goltzius, CC0, via Rijks Museum
Richard II and Henry V - Hendrick Goltzius, CC0, via Rijks Museum
Welsh Judge - NLW, CC0
Battle of Evesham, The British Library, CC0
Charles III - Mark Jones from Stradishall, Newmarket, suffolk, CC BY 2.0 creativecommons.org/licenses/..., via Wikimedia Commons
HRH Prince William visited the Home of the UK Submarine Service in Argyll and Bute today (June 29) to meet with service personnel and to officially open a multi-million-pound training facility, OGL 3.0 www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/d...
#wales
“And to the people of 1170 he was dead, because that’s when he died”
Absolute gold. Subbed on the spot.
I know. Never have I laughed at a single TH-cam documentary joke...this one shocked me. Lol 😂 so hilarious and perfect timed.
Poetic eloquence, no matter how dry, is not dead. Wonderful stuff. I didn't know.... Thank you.
Shout out to the guy who was king of 22 people and a couple of hills, I love that for him 😂
Sounds like more of a HOA president than a proper monarch, lol
We love him
Really bummed out that Wikipedia has been lying about the Rock being the Prince of Wales all this time...
He is head of the table after all
😂😂😂
Isn't it strange how it's always fascinating to hear a real expert speaking about their topic of expertise? And how radically different that seems when compared with a "documentary" TV programme? It's one of the ways that the internet, and You Tube, is changing the world for the better. Thank you, Cambrian Chronicles.
Thank you so much, that's very kind of you, and one of the best comments I've ever received! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
It's really nice to hear Welsh history from a non-English point of view. Thanks for the video.
You're welcome! I agree that Welsh history so often gets mentioned solely through an English lense (if it even gets mentioned at all) which is a shame since it's so interesting
You trust an American to know our history? This video us very misleading.
@@Fred-rj3er in what way is it misleading? I’m curious. I’m also not an American, if you can’t tell from my British accent lol
I read Edith Pargeter's novels many years ago so I knew some of this.
@@CambrianChronicles So you are not English eh? Well your mangling of language is atrocious. Do not claim to be a Cymro! Your accent is not one I recognise.
It's interesting because here in France, the title Princeps was only used once (that I know of). Princeps francorum, Prince of the Franks, was used by the Mayors of the Palace after they gained a great deal of power. Said Princeps were Pepin of Herstal, Charles Martel and Pepin the Short. While they were technically still subject to the king, they had all of the power and the kings were just powerless figurehead. So it's funny to merge both meanings of the title: subservent and defiant. The title was dropped when Pepin the Short became king.
I also love the paralled between the english heir being the Prince of W(ha)les and the French heir being the Dauphin (Dolphin)
It's Pippin in German and English. If you look at the book and relationship tables, many hobbits have Frankish names...names that should be revived again
Whales (it's a town in England)
1111
Don't forget that the french president is also co-prince of Andorra. And how that came to be is another story. They basically inherited it.
Actually the title of prince was also used for a time in Aquitaine. Also the title prince was also used by the legitimate member who had yet to obtain a title. In fact today the heir of Luxembourg holds the title of prince because he is agnatically a member of the french family and is thus a prince of the blood.
Hope we get more on Owain's rebellion later. He's probably my favorite medieval hero.
Definitely will, he's very interesting and I'd love to cover him more
He probably met mine, du Guesclin.
Then we need more war of the roses To Make the Welsh pre occupied.
Yep, when the thrown of England was taken by a Welsh man, Henry Tudor.
Most English, and many Welsh, think that you can only be Welsh if their name is difficult to pronounce, by the English.
Who me?😂😂
Very interesting. Poland in the middle ages had a very simlar tradition. While Dux (Duke) was the most common title of all Polish regional rulers, the nominal overlord of them all (duke of Cracow) was sometimes called princeps, to signify his supreriority. Rex or king was really seldomly used before 1295, as Holy Roman Empire was powerful and considered it an usurpation of their authority.
Ah that's really interesting, thank you for sharing!
HRR also had the Kingdom of Bohemia. And once it was really close that a Slav would have become Emperor...
@H K C No, but it means there was a Slavic Kingdom even within HRE.
The HRE was also quite a complicated affair. With a (de jure) elected ruler, and lots of duchies and kingdoms being part of it. A king of Crakow wouldn't be out of place.
@@HappyBeezerStudiosThere was only one king in the HRE for most of its existence, and that was the King of Bohemia. When Prussia became a kingdom it’s monarch had to style himself the King _in_ Prussia to avoid annoying the rest of the HRE.
Interesting to think back on the term “princeps.” As I understand it, Augustus called himself Princeps so he would NOT be thought of as the supreme ruler (or king- Romans feared having a monarchy) but rather as the “first citizen.”
and funny that nowadays we consider "caesar/kaiser/czar/kaysar" and "emperor" to be a title higher than a king. Someone who rules over kings.
After the Rape of Lucetia and the abolition of their Roman monarchy, the Romans were insistent that Rome would never again be ruled by kings. The offices of princeps and imperator were set dressing for them to act as kings but not be called kings.
It is sad, that you don't have mentioned the biggest irony of history - that Tudors were Welsh themselves ;)
@Bo Locks Tudurs from Gwynedd were Normans?
YES! THE TUDORS were Plantagenet in supporting the Cause legal REIGNING POWERS! Their Patriarchal linage come from the Kingdom of WALES! ( Prophetic Great Brooms ) ! Now King Charles the FULFILLMENT!
LONG LIVE the BLESSED King of GREAT BRITAIN!
ISAIAH 41:2,7 GOLDSMITH
ISAIAH 41: 25
IP NORTH, PRINCE of PILLAR of JUSTICE ( HEBRIDES, PICTS ) Callanish Lewis, SCOTLAND, UNITED KINGDOM, GREAT BRITAIN
IP NORTH, PRINCE of ARC of BROTHERHOOD ( Celtics, Ashers, Normans, Plantagenet ) Salisbury Plain, ENGLAND, UNITED KINGDOM, GREAT BRITAIN ( MAGNA CHARTA 1315 ) BLUE 💙 LAWS! BLUE 🔵 SKY LAWS !
IP EAST, PRINCE of MAHARLIKA ( GREAT NATURES )( Heligaynon, Moslem Karaiah SRIE VISAYAH EMPIRE)( Phil. R. A. 8371 ) VISA ALLAH VISA AYAH ! "
EZEKIEL 17:7 MAHARLIKAN EAGLE 🦅
@@menoflowicz Bo Locks they were from Croatia.
RHYS AP TUDOR - THE LITERAL BESTIE OF OWAIN GLYNDŴR AND DESCENDANT OF HWYEL DDA SRS
Pronunciation is pretty good, especially for someone who isn’t Welsh! Nice to see my country’s history being properly represented
He isn't?
My father’s line of the family is originally from wales. Blevins is our last name and my ancestors were known for their skills with archery and hunting throughout the generations.
So I love learning about the culture and history of Wales.
Probably derived from the name bleddyn
@@deanmorgan7011 Yes, it is. I’m not sure how common a name it is in Wales now, but I believe it was changed slowly to Blevins by at least the 17th century if not earlier. Still working on the exact lineage and dates.
@kcarter0265 it's often used as a first name here in modern times, but like all welsh names it's very old
@kcarter0265 in welsh it means wolf or wolf like, my name means of the sea, as most morgans were sailors and some were pirates, there's a lot to be said in s name, happy researching, please let me know how you get on. Good luck
Edward III was never named Prince of Wales. His father, Edward II, and the first Englishman to hold the title, was deposed in 1327 when Edward was only 14. Edward III named his son, Edward the Black Prince, Prince of Wales. When the Black Prince died, Edward named the Black Prince's son, the future Richard II, as Prince of Wales to cement Richard's place to inherit the throne as Richard was just ten when Edward III died. I believe you misspoke when you said (or implied) at 18:30 that Edward II named his grandson Prince of Wales. It was Edward III who named his son and grandson Prince of Wales. Things get messed up after that as Henry IV deposed Richard who had no heirs. However, thereafter the idea of naming the male heir as Prince of Wales was more often than not followed. This is a minor critique of a well-done historical perspective. Cheers to you for your efforts.
As a Welshman from South Wales I was unaware of this history and am grateful for this explanation of our past which was ignored when I was at school.
They did that for a reason. They don't want you to know.
@@narannavan Who don't want them to know? Wales has a devolutionary parliament and takes pride in ensuring the Welsh language is passed on, and seem pretty patriotic when it comes to Welsh customs and history. There are plenty things that are kept out of history lessons for more nefarious reasons, however in this case, like much of regional history from certain contemporary periods in history, is probably not on the curriculum because there's a lot of history to uncover in Britain. I live in the region of Britian that was most severely attacked and pillaged by Vikings for decades, if not centuries, and that was merely mentioned in passing during history. There's a lot more focus on modern history, because teaching uninterested kids over a thousand years of history in an hour or so a week for a few years is not going to be relevant (or possible) for the vast majority of them.
The fact this information is readily available and you don't need to go digging through a thousand opinion pieces before finding genuinely sourced information such as official documents and records does not highlight a desire by the Welsh or British government to cover this up though. Just because something is not directly taught does not mean it has been purposely omitted. Granted, it does happen (e.g Britain's involvement in abolishing the slave trade globally is an example here), but it's not the case for everything. There's a national curriculum at the end of the day, and too many regions with too much history to be taught in basic school settings. If you think about it like science, you'll probably see what I mean - it's such a broad topic with so many sub-topics to cover, and only so much time, you have to prioritise what to teach. It's a shame for those of us who enjoy the subject and want to know more, but for the vast majority it's just information to retain for exams, they don't care to know more and don't need to.
@@narannavan I doubt the WJEC deliberately misses these off of the syllabus, they are Welsh run after all.
It’s just that in general, the History lessons are a mess; following the standard - Tudors, Stuart’s, Industrial Revolution, WW1 and 2 and then a little Cold War.
We did still cover Welsh history, with trips to St. Fagans, Caerphilly Castle, celebrating the Eisteddfod every year etc.
In general, school aims to kick you out into the working force asap, and doesn’t have time for the nuances unless you choose to specialise.
I don’t believe it was out of malice, but instead incompetence and a lack of caring.
They do this kinda stuff here in America too - They only skim over the bits of history that the government thinks are the most important. In truth, you have to learn some of the most important things via self-education over here. My cousins and family members in Germany say that it isn't much better over there when it comes to learning history that is actually quite important.
From my experience it's most often ignored by the student not the curriculum.
Welsh history is Fascinating, your channel is really good and i love your voice. Greetings from Germany
Thanks so much, I'm really glad you're enjoying the videos!
@@blacklesbianpoet1228 i dunno about that man
It is curious how every contiguous territory outside the north India capital of Delhi (and Agra and Lahore), followed a similar history. For centuries, certainly from the 4th century onwards, territories outside, the Punjab (not known as the Punjab until much later), Kanauj, Awadh, and Bihar and Gorakhpur, later known as Jaunpur, and Bengal in the Ganges Basin, and Malwa, Rajasthan and Gujarat to the south-west, followed this same pattern of making independent stands periodically, and being overwhelmed by a stronger imperial power in immediate succession. The capital shifted; Thaneswar, in modern-day Haryana, Kanauj in the centre of the UP, Pataliputra with its ancient history and Gaur in Bengal, held the centre at times. From the 11th century onwards, centralising rulers tended to concentrate on Delhi-Agra-Lahore more and more, although, towards the end of independent Indian states, Golconda/Hyderabad, Mysore and Pune, and appanages of Pune, such as Baroda/Vadodara, Gwalior, Indore and Nagpur, and Murshidabad in the east, played very important roles,.
The same thing happened in the Deccan and in the deep south. Capitals like Badami, Hampi, Warangal and Thanjavur, and Madurai, served as the focal points of centralising authority, while they also served as the points at which dissent and centrifugal forces gained power.
Reading about what happened in Wales and to Wales was therefore deeply fascinating, and almost a reminder that Indian history really was not subsumed by the narrative relating to Delhi-Agra-Lahore entirely.
Princeps or prince, is rarely a title in isolation but indicates the first, most prominent, member of a group. It would have been regarded as such back when Latin was more commonly understood.
Probably a bit too much of a sidenote for this video, but the Tudors were a noble Welsh family and had supported Glyndwr's rebellion. Their ascent mixed the English and Welsh heritage of this title for a time.
Only in the 1480s, though. After the end of King Richard 3 at Bosworth, and the Tudor rise from then. I assume.
I don’t know about noble. The Tudors started with a quite lowly squire who happened to marry the widow of Henry the fifth, who herself was the daughter of the King at the time of France and was quite mad. All the English kings prior to this fought for their crown. One could say that Henry the seventh who was the only one that was able to gather a type of army due to his mother Mary Beaufort, cut off the head of Richard the third, a brave and fearless warrior who fought well for his brother before becoming king. The Tudors were pretty ordinary and quite sneaky in the way that they got to the crown.
Are you sure about the "cut off the head of Richard III" part?
"King Richard III likely perished at the hands of assailants who hacked away pieces of his scalp and rammed spikes or swords into his brain as the helmetless monarch knelt in the mud."
Taken from an study of Richard III's skeleton. Also... they didn't want the body/head too damaged because, when they later displayed it, they want Richard's corpse to be recognizable. (That is revealed in the same article.)
Richard3rd was not beheaded.
He died in the Battle of Bosworth Field in 1485
As much as I love the Scottish and their fearlessness I do most certainly believe the Welsh princes fought so much harder and equally quite cleverly due to their mountainess lands. Especially when they were fighting the great kings of England. Especially Edward. Harsh and evil man. The story of Simon de Montfort would be a good story may I suggest. The younger who fought for Henry III.
Hilarious ! When Charles had his Anthony Armstrong Jones Investiture Pageant, there was no Internet and no one could tell me what the Prince of Wales history was so I went to the library and researched it. This is a service to humanity, terrific.
As a Welshman, absolutely fallen in love with your content recently
Thank you, I'm glad!
I knew a bit about the history of this title (including the "practice run" era of its history), but I have learned a lot more from this video! The history of the title "Prince of Wales" is kind of ironic: it started out as an emperor-like _Princeps_ that outranked the King of England, then degraded to a subservient title, and then to the heir apparent to the English throne.
Thanks for making this video!
I've been reading and watching a lot about history to do with the coronation recently. I have been utterly shocked about how much utter rubbish is in the media and how scarily underinformed most people are (and I was). How can we possibly have a debate about the future of our countries when most people know next to nothing about it..?
This is a classic example. Thanks so much for this. I will subscribe!
You are so effortlessly humorous, it’s a pleasure to watch and makes it all the more engaging! Keep it up mate 😁
The title princeps is Roman and was first applied to Augustus. The idea was to avoid the word rex (king) which had bad connotations for the Romans. It can be translated as ‘first citizen’. With two exceptions all emperors before 284 called themselves that. Two called themselves dominus, Lord, but Domitian and Commodus were both assassinated. We call the early Empire the Principate. The word prince comes from that. From Diocletian onwards, the emperor was always termed dominus and we call this era the Dominate. In Greek, though, he was always called Basileus, which just means king.
In welsh the word for prince is tywysog tywys means guided
I knew most of the history since Owain Glyndwr but this excellent video filled in a lot of history!
Sad we have not a Welsh Prince of Wales or princes of Wales who are genuine welsh. This is a good listen
Really interesting stuff, I've literally just finished filming a series of videos on the history of the 4 big Edwardian castles of Gwynedd, plus another on Dolbadarn, and in the Caernarfon one I discuss the whole "born in Wales and speaking no English" myth, and I'm so glad to hear someone else mention Alphonso as a reason it doesn't make sense!
I totally didn't know any of the Princes prior to Llewellyn ap Iorwerth, however - I think I'm going to have to rewrite some of my voiceovers before I start editing to make sure I'm a bit more accurate!
Thank you for a lovely, well researched and well presented (and laugh out loud funny) video on this fascinating subject. Very much subscribed.
Thank you so much, I'm very glad you liked it, and I'm happy I was helpful! I'll be looking out for those castle videos
There is an interesting footnote to this discussion. In 1726, King George I named his eldest grandson Baron Snowdon (along with a slate of other titles). George was the first Hanoverian and the first new king since the Act of Union created the United Kingdom, but the title was soon forgotten and fell into disuse. But in 1961, Tony Armstrong-Jones, the new husband of Princess Margaret (sister to Queen Elizabeth II), was created "Earl of Snowdon", a title still held by their son David.
Really interesting video, and to think there was nearly a king of England called Alfonso
A very interesting video from the Welsh perspective. I knew nothing about the "Princeps" of wales at all prior to the English throne proclaiming it for themselves. It was interesting to learn of its much earlier history. Thank you.
Diolch for making these videos, so much of our history gets overlooked, even by our own people! Please keep it up, these are fantastic resources.
Thank you, I agree it gets overlooked so often, I'm hoping I can continue to introduce more people to Wales
Could NOT be better said! Here, here!!
I will definitely be clicking on one of your videos again. Thanks for the informative history!
Excellent work and you explained it so well
Thank you for giving more light into Welsh/Briton history. I've been fascinating by these people for almost 4 years however i struggle to find someone on youtube talking about it.
I never get tired seeing Dave do the same old stuff. Learn something every time, and Dave's not afraid to do something a different way, if it makes sense. That little hint on fret ends, the shielding process, the Thom-goochery, what more could you want?
Dave seems like a good bloke.
Really informative, I'm glad I'm able to learn about my county's history, thank you for the videos.
I’ve learned from this channel that so much of what I thought was English folklore is actually welsh lmao
So glad I subscribed. As these videos are fascinating.
I really enjoyed this video, i like the style of it, the sense of humour here and there and I definitely learnt something and have subbed, so I'll be clicking more if your videos. Thank you.
16:30 I would like to point out that the English aristocracy at this time were still culturally Norman and likely didn't speak English very often, if at all. The royals and lords spoke French instead, thus debunking that myth even further.
My quick google search: "From the time of the Norman Conquest (1066) until the end of the 14th century, French was the language of the king and his court. During this period, marriages with French princesses reinforced the royal family's ties to French culture."
I would like to point out that the reason they were speaking French, was because the language was used as a soft power of the French Empire to impose elitism. Its why it would be improper or a-historical to call France "France" at that point, for the Francs didn't speak French: only the elite did.
The Brythonic tongues spoken in what we now know as England are long gone - whispers in history books and artefacts - all because of the "radius and point of impact of empires". Roman/Dane/Jute/Angles/Saxons/Vikings/Normans... where Cymru is the last Country within Britain which still speaks its mother Brythonic tongue [Cymraeg] - where Scotland ceased speaking Pictish in the 13th century... due to a certain Edward I
I looked it up. "Did Edward the 1st speak English?
"He spoke fluently and confidently with a slight lisp
@@cecileroy557 let me guess, English source/account? They love propping up their own bullshit to cover for the fact they're not of these isles. But please, do share your source, or is google sufficient enough for plebs nowadays?
Here because TH-cam algorithm + personal interest + Welcome to Wrexham. Much love from the Mitten. Excellently delivered, Cambrian Chronicles!
Thank you, I'm glad you found my channel and that you're enjoying my videod
@@CambrianChronicles Thank you for your work on this channel and that your work is so easy to consume! I love the way you just keep the map where it is for so long. Also, you made a statement/joke at 5:04.
(Paraphrasing) To his people, he was dead. Because he *died*. LOL. Keep up the quick wit and the wonderful educational communication. I love it all! We all do!
Have you done a video on Rheged and/or King Uriens. Love the content btw really interesting
You are now my favourite channel.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate that!
Prince and Princeps. That is a salient point I missed in my studies. NOW it makes sense. Thank you.
Bro I love your videos. Great explanation of the title.
Have you ever considered talking about the mab darogan?
Yes, one day!
Dwayne the Rock Johnson, Prince of Wales
Fantastic video revealing an awful lot of the agenda of modern life doesn't have an ounce of reality to it. Thank you for your efforts in creating this
Absolutely love these videos. Welsh history is fascinating and so important to understand.
You're doing a great service with style.
Thank you so much! I couldn't agree more, Welsh history is so interesting and yet hardly ever covered
@@CambrianChronicles True. A fine example pf a people squashed by its invaders. my great grandmother told me how when she attended school in Wales If any child was caught speaking Welsh, they were given a spoon or small rod. (Can't remember exactly) but something to that effect. And the object was for that kid to carry spoon/rod around school all day. And if he caught another kid speaking Welsh, they had to give the spoon to them. And the child holding the spoon/rod at the end of the day would get canned
@@wufongtanwufong5579 She was referring to the "Welsh Not".
Wow super interesting. I’ve always just assumed that it had come from Henry Tudor since he both had personal roots in and began his takeover from, Wales.
Lloyd George pulled a nice stroke with the “investiture” in Caernarfon, the impression given that it’s an ancient ceremony as opposed to a nice sinecure for his constituency and apparently not happening for current PoW
Interesting!!! And Prince Charles lived in Wales, for a time, and learned Welsh.. William lucked out.
(I mean absolutely nothing negative about Wales/Welsh but it was a hard time for Charles.)
Lloyd George was a taffeta taff. He was born in Manchester.
@@cecileroy557he learned a few words, nothing more.
This is so well done, informative, and is passive-agressive perfection all at once, bravo!
Haha thank you, I hope it wasn’t too passive aggressive!
Thankyou for the knowledge i enjoyed the video
Thanks for making this, really interesting!
A couple of questions if I may:
When and why did the rulers of Gwynedd switch from using 'Cymru' to 'Wallie' in the Prince title?
Is this story the origin of how the words 'Prince' and 'Princess' came to be in English today, as a general title for a child of the monarch?
Thank you!
The Princes of Gwynedd used both, 'Tywysog Cymru' is the Welsh translation of 'Princeps Wallie', although the latter was the one used on official documents.
And yes I believe it is!
@@CambrianChronicles thank you!
@@CambrianChronicles Wait, so Princeps Wallie is like Princeps Walliae but in medieval latin?
@@tompatterson1548 Yes, the -ae case ending is frequently written -æ, -ę, or -e in Mediæval Latin.
@@howtoappearincompletely9739 okay, thank you.
Very well made video and very informative - great stuff - diolch!
Croeso! I'm glad you enjoyed
Fascinating. Thanks. During the early part of the video you kept highlighting the parts of Wales but seem to exclude the very western tip in the south. Was that some part of Wales that no one bothered to control or a separately controlled area not considered Welch
Although I don't remember the exact map in the video, I would assume the south western section is Pembrokeshire, which was controlled by England in the 11th century and never reconquered by the Welsh, hence why it isn't included on any of the maps of the Welsh kingdoms.
Very insightful, answered all my questions! thanks bossman
Thank you, I'm glad I answered everything
SOOOCH A GREAT VIDEO LOVE IT EVER1 TIME BEST CHANNEL
Thank you so much!
15:59
Amazing how the AD 1301 map looks like a person of authority pointing down from their seat (the head being the island).
Now that you mention it, that looks like it! I can see the orange "throne" with a red "sovereign" pointing down. It looks like the perfect map for a King to appoint a new Prince of Wales to administer the land!
Thanks for the comment!
Well done. Informative and entertaining. Liked and shared.
Much appreciated!
Great video! Thanks for posting it! 😊
Thank you, I’m glad you liked it
Excellent video! Thinking about Princeps, I wonder if it was also a shrewd way of ‘throwing shade’ on Henry II, whose right to the English throne was via the Anarchy and the subsequent compromise. Perhaps it also ties into the notion of rule via the rights of Rome and the inheritance of Romano-Britons. Anyway, just some thoughts.
That is interesting, a lot of the Welsh kings “traced” (i.e. faked) their lineage back to the various Roman emperors, perhaps Owain was trying to mimic that
I'm glad I found your channel. Subscribed! Thanks for your content homie!!
Thank you, I'm really glad you liked it!
You are a fellow fan of Historia Civilis I see, judging by your soundtrack 😂 Great video!
Good stuff! Thank you. 🙂
really enjoyed this information
Thank you. I know quite a bit of mediaeval Welsh history but wasn’t aware the title had been used before Dafydd ap Llywelyn. Nice to learn something new! Also a new verb: coronated 😂.
It's incorrect. "Coronate" is an adjective not a verb. Monarchs are crowned, not coronated.
@@SaxonSuccess perhaps it’s a little piece of Wenglish - ‘coroni’ is the verb to crown in Cymraeg.
Great work!!
Love your vids! I'm irish but am starting to study Welsh history and these videos are perfect for that. I'd love to see a video on Wales's part in some English conflicts like the War of the Roses or Hundred Year War.
But yeah, keep up the good work!
Thank you! That does sound pretty interesting, I'll see what kind of research I can do
@@CambrianChronicles looking forward to whatever you decide to do :) I love this channel.
@@CambrianChronicles LESGO THE WELSH ‼️LongBow🏹❤️ Nadolig Llawen, Sire🐉 Princeps of the Draig 🐉▶️🐉Tiwb😉
Fair play, for someone with a slight American sounding accent - your Welsh pronunciations are almost spot on.
The General American accent is very melodic (hence why so many non-American singers sound American when they’re singing) which makes pronunciation of melodic languages like Welsh easier than you’d think.
Phonetically speaking, American English is relatively closer to what British English used to sound like several hundred years ago.
@@BlueSatoshi And what does that have to do with Welsh pronunciation??? - I just wondered!
@@DovahFett Ah - so that's why the English have so much difficulty with it then eh! 😜
@@hariowen3840 I was looking at the first half of your comment when I wrote that 🤦♂️
Love all your videos! Please keep making them!! :3
This was very informative, thanks!
You're welcome!
You are still one of my favourite channels!
Thanks so much, I’m glad you’re still enjoying my videos
That is the best presentation that I have ever encountered of the history of the "Prince of Wales" title. It certainly destroys some of the myths. Perhaps it is now time for the title to be dropped permanently- it is now just a token of subservience and even more galling as William is a keen supporter of English Rugby, not Welsh.
Very interesting video 👍
It was not specifically referred to, but the last true Duke of Wales was killed in battle during 1282. I know this because it was my direct ancestor, Anthony Tipton, who killed him. Upon learning of the Duke's death and who killed him, King Edward 1st knighted my ancestor, bestowing the title Sir Anthony de Tipton and having a Crest made for him.
thanks these folks u talk about are my family , thanks
In Scotland , the British heir is generally the 'Duke of Rothsay'... :)
Fascinating stuff, keep them coming
Thank you, there's more to come!
Absolutely fascinating stuff. I did mostly the Tudors to the restoration for a lot of my undergrad and the history of England and Wales before then is a real blindspot of mine. Your videos help bring that pre-Tudor period to light very nicely. Thanks.
You're welcome! I'm glad to have helped
Great video and well researched.
Thank you! I’m glad you enjoyed it
I did not see that Owain joke coming, it felt like a Jay Foreman type of joke, it was really funny.
Haha thank you
So a Welsh heir to the throne is an edling, (spelled by the sound,) and if the Normans had lost the Battle of Hastings, the English heir to the throne would likely be an aethling. Those are such similar words...
It's really interesting to see the development of the word "Prince," too.
Edling is one of the very rare adoptions from Old English! No one seems to be sure of why, though
It would be great if you updated the Wikipedia page with accurate info and sources. Thanks for the excellent content!
I've done a bit, as have others as well from what I've seen. I want to do a big rewrite of the Wales section eventually but I'm worried it'll just get reverted
@@CambrianChronicles as is the problem with open source documents. Contribute what you can and hope people don't notice too much and get protective of their "bit".
@@CambrianChronicles There seems to have been a large dispute recently over one editor, stated to be a Welsh nationalist, re-writing the entire article. With many discussions opened on the page. The editor does not seem to be a historian and constantly wrote about the controversy of it (they apparently wrote an entire now-deleted article on that) or how the Welsh part should be more important than its use by the English. So a partial re-write with great sources would be appreciated, although it may be best to raise a discussion following the recent dispute. The article re-write seemed to have removed a lot of older information which lacked sources, which would be amazing if it can be added back with sources.
Mess like that is why I avoid Wikipedia lol, there's even a guy now claiming that Owain Gwynedd never called himself the Prince of Wales... citing a source that calls him the Prince of Wales. I generally stick to small corrections where I can
I feel like the best way would be to suggest the edits to make sure people are on board and understand what is to be changed.
why is no one talking about Dwayne The Rock Johnson being the picture for the Wikipedia entry for the Prince of Wales
this feels incredibly like civilis, good work!
Great video
Thank you!
For goodness sake, it's titLE , not title.
"I can make all of my own laws, without the kings permission."
Or apostrophes, apparently. Very informative nonetheless.
Those cursed apostrophes always mess me up, I guarantee at least half of them will be wrong in the subtitles as well haha
You are an awesome discovery ☺️
Thank you!
Thanks for the video, it’s very interesting. Because before watching it, my knowledge of the title consisted only of the information from the Crown 😅
Thank you! I haven't seen the Crown, did it do a good job at covering the title?
Off to the library...V....
you should really cover the last independence war, owain glyndwr and the war itself were very interesting
Always love when a video starts with the totality of "no one at all knows anything at all ever about anything to do with this thing" and then doubles down on the extremism. No nuance. Mad respect.
(yes, that's me laughing at the joke and enjoying the video I upvoted, to be clear). I like boosting engagement on channels I'm fond of.
Owain Gwynedd:
I am king of Wales.
England:
Meh.
Owain Gwynedd:
Fine. I'm a *princeps* of Wales.
England:
So you have chosen death.
Da iawn chi...thoroughly entertaining and informative. Thank you for citing your sources; I've read most of them, but always looking to expand my understanding of Hanes Cymru. I'd like to echo a previous comment: An analysis of Owain Glyndwr's life, his path to rebellion, and his impact on Welsh nationalism would be much appreciated. Keep up the excellent work. Diolch yn fawr.
I'm a big fan of Llewellyn ap Iorwerth. I always heard he was the first Welsh Prince to be called the Prince of Wales.
Y Brenin he was called! - The King!
My boye hitting up my home screen with the hottest new vid drop
Haha thank you, I hope you enjoyed it!
Thanks. The video you made cleared up some history for me, and fulfilled the gaps! awesome resume for even more stuff you could have even gone deeper I am sure!
I've recently came across your channel and have watched some of your videos which lead to me recognising the image you used for Dafydd I which you also used in your Arthur video for Artúr mac Áedán. Is this image a placeholder you use if no usable depictions of a person exist or does it depict one of the two and is only a placeholder once?
Yeah it's a drawing of Dafydd, but I used it to depict Artur as there aren't any drawings of him. I've done it many many times, you have a good eye!
Was it 2022 charles3rd!!?
Time flies already
Love Welsh history been thinking about doing a history podcast about Gwynedd would you like to be on it
Hm that does sound pretty cool, I'd be more than happy to make a guest appearance!
History of Gwynedd & Powys were very related at the time of myths of King Arthur and may have had origins in Rhos in North Wales