The Difference Between Climb and Conventional Cutting - CNC Routers
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.ย. 2024
- If you are wondering what is the difference between conventional cutting and climb cutting on your CNC router, this video dives into the differences between climb cutting and conventional cutting on CNC routers.
What is Climb Cutting?
Climb cutting, also known as "down milling," involves the router bit moving in the same direction as the material's motion. In other words, the router bit ‘rolls’ in the same direction as the cut direction, much like a car wheel rolls along the road as it is moving.
What is Conventional Cutting?
Conventional cutting is the opposite of climb cutting. Here, the router bit rotates against against the direction of the motion of cut. Think about a car moving forward while the tire is spinning backward.
Key Differences & Considerations:
Climb cutting often yields a smoother surface finish on metal but not on wood.
Conventional cutting tends to extend tool life as it encounters less stress during the cutting process.
Climb cutting requires careful consideration due to the potential for tool chatter and workpiece movement.
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Because I have used routers for years I understand climb vs conventional exactly as you have clearly explained it. Thank you! I think the arrows vcarve uses to demonstrate the direction of travel when setting up a tool path are backwards.
donaldbecker4642, I'm glad to hear you found the explanation clear! Your point about the arrows in VCarve is interesting-different software can sometimes have varied representations that might seem confusing.
Great video. Understanding the difference between climb and conventional is the main thing to know and that I think that especially when cutting a pocket using conventional keeps the bit digging into the wood and not trying to climb away from it.
Bob, thank you! I couldn't agree more brother, that's an excellent summary!
Great explanation Garrett!
Thank you, again!!!
David, you're so welcome brother!
Great video! Excellent explanation of conventional vs. climb. Thanks!
mriley52, you're so welcome! I'm glad it was helpful for you my friend!
Good explanation on the climb/cut. Your teaching technique is very good. Tks Mr. G
Sam, thank you! I'm truly humbled my friend!
Real name is Dave. Retired las vegas pd. Use samspade from movie. I appreciated your stories on pd and ems. I was a emt2 many many years ago. Stay safe and happy my frjiend
Tough topic to explain!
Climb/conventional milling is to X/Y axis as upcut/downcut is to Z axis.
Upcut's cutting force pulls material from the bottom of the cut to the top pulling it across the top edge of the material.
Downcut cutting force pushes material from the top into the bottom of the cut.
Conventional cutting force pulls the material from inside the material to outside like Upcut but on the X/Y plain.
Climb cutting force pushes the material from the outside to the inside like downcut but on the X/Y plain.
Climb/conventional cutting can have the same benefits as up/down cut with other considerations that's usually mostly to do with grain. I mostly choose based on the flow of the grain not to cut into it but with it for less chip out.
The twist is rotational forces are much greater on climb cuts. They humble the best of cnc folks on the biggest of machines.
Like a tire on a car. If the car is tire is rolling forward the same direction as the car the tire easily climbs any obstacle. Its natural tendency is to climb up and out. If your car is on a tow truck and you gun it in reverse that's conventional. The tire rotating in the opposite direction to travel naturally wants to dig in.
The real difference is on conventional the material is in the way of it digging in! In climb the edge of the material is right there making it want to climb out of the cut. For the most part the smaller the bit diameter the easier it is to deflect and climb out.
3dtwerking324, wow thank you for sharing your knowledge and helping explain this in a different light and perspective! I have no doubt your insights will help clear up some confusion for our other cnc brothers and sister! Happy cncing my friend!
Another good one, sir. Thanks for my 4th coffee mug, with my last order just arrived 😊
robertyack1661, So glad you're enjoying the mugs! Keep coming back for more unique creations. Happy to hear your latest order just arrived safely.
Nice explanation for climbing and conventional.
richardwilliams5520, Thank you! I'm glad you found the explanation helpful.
Wonderful explanation of a hard to grasp concept. Great lesson...
barisdemircan9668, so happy to hear that this one helped you brother.
barisdemircan9668, I am happy to hear it brother! Happy CNCing.
Very good demo on the different between the different on software.. thank u Garrett. Oh bye the way man u got all the kool toys. When I get up and running I'm got to get me one.thanks again Garrett
roblehmann2378, thanks for the kind words brother! I sure do have a selection of toys these days, it's awesome! I'm looking forward to you getting your machine soon and seeing what you create my friend!
Very through explanation on climb verses conventional. Typically when cutting solid lumber I will climb cut first then do a “finish” conventional cut removing an additional .010.
lesterandreas9005, good call brother! I like that idea.
Climb milling can protect your dimension, in other words the tool pushes away from the material as opposed to digging into it
Yes, I wanted to mention that and forgot
Nice video! great explanation.
patricklynott9870, thank you! I'm glad it was helpful!
Back when dinosaurs still carried two pairs of glasses and AutoCAD came on 27 floppy disks and a 3 ring binder, I was told when designing parts to specify the finish edge for the machinists, but me being me, I would walk papers down to them to ensure what was on the paper was actually doable. Mind you, my machining knowledge was mostly relegated to whatever they would share with me and over-the-shoulder observation back then, but a lot of the engineers never bothered to even visit the machinists and just did the drawings, stuck them in the Out box and that was that.
All that said, picking up what I could here and there, it was relayed in hushed whispers that the machinists would pick whatever style cut easier for the chosen material and would finish it on secondary equipment with no one the wiser. It turns out a lot of that secondary decision-making went on despite the specs on the paper, wouldn't ya know. 😁
It's been an interesting road learning their side of the world all these years later with digital equipment and doing it yourself to say the least. Dare I say it, we have it MUCH easier now then the guys with micrometers running a manual Bridgeport, and they will always have my respect. Old aerospace parts are like fine art and jewelry in equal measure, and it's simply incredible what they could do with (by comparison to today) 'legacy' machines.
C-M-E, What a fascinating journey you've had in the world of machining and design! It's true that the evolution of technology has made things more accessible, but the craftsmanship of those who worked with manual machines is truly commendable. The attention to detail and skill required to create parts in those times is something many of us still appreciate today. It sounds like you've gathered a wealth of knowledge over the years, and it's great that you recognize the artistry behind the old techniques. Thanks for sharing your insights!
good one can you please explain practical means cutting material using both methods
dakshayharsora7519, Sorry brother I don't have a video on that yet, but I will definitely add it to my video to do list! Thanks for the input my friend!
I noticed you have a laser. Do you have any videos where you use the CNC and laser on a project?
ntrumpdeplorable7781, not quite yet brother but I should have some videos with the laser coming out very soon.
One simple question on the matter: If I pocket out a 20 mill hole in wood, which direction gives the biggest hole ? a climb cut or a conventional cut ? And does the up or down- bit makes also a difference kind regards hans
hanspijpers2100, great question brother.
Climb Cut: Gives you a smoother finish but can be trickier to handle because it tends to pull the router towards the workpiece. It might not necessarily make a bigger hole, but the edges will be cleaner.
Conventional Cut: This is safer and easier to control but can lead to a bit more tear-out on the wood. The size of the hole won't change much compared to climb cutting; it's more about the quality of the cut edges.
As for the bits:
Up-Cut Bits: Great for pulling chips out of the hole, leading to a cleaner bottom but might roughen up the surface around the top edge.
Down-Cut Bits: Press the chips down, making the top surface cleaner but potentially packing chips at the bottom of the cut.
Neither the cut direction nor the bit type will significantly change the size of the hole. It's more about the finish and the ease of cutting.
@@IDCWoodcraft okay thanks
Maching 101, if ypu dont have backlash eliminators, always 100% of the time conventional milling.
pierregauthier3077, very true my friend. I couldn't agree more.
So never use climb cut. Got it !
Climb milling is almost always the correct method for cnc machines (better finish) Conventional milling is for manual machines with backlash. Basic machining 101, in wood you can hear how crappy it sounds when conventional milling. You need to do some tests and see which works best with each material, sometimes it won't matter actually. Both are trying to deflect the tool away from the wood, if you don't believe that try a spring pass after each cut and you will certainly still cut a little.
Climb cutting is usually used when cutting aluminum and plastics. Conventional is pretty much used for everything else.
@@jefferybartel1312 Only if it helps the melting of it or something, no one climb mills in a CNC machine shop, we machine aluminum constantly but with flood coolant. The spindle speed on a hobby cnc router is way too fast for non coolant operations. It's tricky so I hate for people to get something in their head as a guaranteed correct way to go all the time.
@@larryrobinson7492been working in a commercial CNC mill shop for over a decade , flat sheets non-flood coolant. Tooling manufacturers even recommend using a climb cut to cut aluminum and plastic (Onsurd, Seco, ECT). But to each their own. The reason you climb cut is to basically prevent the material from "melting" back onto itself, whether it be plastic or aluminum.
@@jefferybartel1312 I'm not arguing that, I'm a fan of climb cut, it seems some have gotten the wrong message from this video that climb cutting is "Evil" I work in a aircraft manufacturing machine shop so yes, I'm very in tune to the processes. They do laser cutting of the thin sheets in the other building, we do All kinds of milling and lathe work mostly. I run alot of different machines at times but I personally prefer the CNC lathe, I run a large Mori Seiki lathe and Mill primarily.
What materials would climb be a better choice? The software has option to reverse last pass with an allowance have u ever used this?
Climb cutting generally used for aluminum and plastics
TheUnionStreetWorkshopcom, others that have replied to this one are exactly right brother! You will have great results in metals such as aluminum, plastics and composites! As for the reverse of the last pass, while it is a great option I only use it rarely. Give it a shot and see how it goes!