Pikmin's Taxonomy (pre-Pikmin 4)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2023
- Today we're talking about Pikmin Taxonomy in honor of Pikmin crawling out of the depths of the void to grace us with it's beauteous presence. It's all very fascinating stuff!
Here's a higher resolution version of my complete cladogram showing ALL the creatures!: i.redd.it/ragui8lybz9b1.png
21k views later and I'm ready to announce that yes, Pikmin Taxaonomy Part 2: Pikmin 4 (and other things) IS HAPPENING! In fact I'm working on it now and plan to release it before the end of the month. That being said, if you've seen the first video and want to suggest and specific changes or additions (about ANY creatures across ALL Pikmin game!) let me know here, or in my community tab! I'll be sure to keep a sharp eye on both!
Hemiptera is the "True Bugs" family, not Diptera. Diptera is flies.
i think the wraiths are probably some sort of oversized amoeba
I'm skeptical of placing so many species in Mammalia. The notes on the Bearded Amprat say, "It has several qualities unique to this ecosystem, such as breastfeeding its young, which may someday give rise to a whole new taxonomy of fauna here." This implies that it's the only true mammal encountered so far.
Breastfeeding being canon in a nintendo game is hilarious
I love how a lot of family names are just silly little names like grubdog and breadbug, then you have the Scarab Beetle family which literally gets its name from a creature in the real world
As a biologist (a zoologist more specifically), it makes me so happy seeing Pikmin give so many people an interest in biology and taxonomy! I'm making my own hypothetical cladogram of everything in Pikmin 4's piklopedia, glad I'm not the only one who likes using fictional taxonomy as a brain teaser.
Personally I'd argue grub-dogs aren't vertebrates almost entirely due to the empress, since that kind of caste with one reproductive female (or few reproductives in general) isn't really a vertebrate thing. It seems that no other bulborbs have developed reproductive structures like an empress does, which to me feels particularly invertebrate. The hair on the hairy bulborbs could be hair-like structures like with real world tarantulas, and while they do give live birth the fact that they seem to have molts doesn't align with any vertebrate I know of. That said this is the distant future, so who knows! The complex eyes really do feel vertebrate so maybe their evolution just went down a line far more similar to modern invertebrates due to selective pressures.
Thinking through everything like this reminds me why evolutionary biology is one of my favorite fields!
I'm pretty sure the only vertebrate (or maybe its the only mammal) that has that kind of caste/society is naked mole rats.
Grub-dogs definitely have bones, since some entries mention it, but I agree that they don't really seem very mammalian at all. Are there any vertibrates that go through a larval stage and molt?
@@Fralexion fish and amphibians have larval stage but no molt
I personally am of the belief that the Grub Dog family is a lineage of amphibians, as they share a lot of similarities to frogs, namely in their vertebrate anatomy, the fact that the larvae have no legs and vestigial tails, and wide mouths that take up a majority of their bodies.
As for the concern about the caste system, there are vertebrates that have evolved this before, namely Naked Mole Rats. It's not impossible, just very unlikely.
@@woomy2343 problem is, they have abdomen like insects and they can breath through it, its especially evidente in empress bulblax, the holes on the side dont produce brood so they can only be Malpighian tubes, yes bulborbs have "noses" but we dont know how they work or even if they work as noses, plus their mouths and snout as whole is called a mandible by the piklopedia, so like its very hard to give a say on wheather they are vertebrates or not, plus, they molt which is something literally no vertebrate does.
And the name of their family is GRUBdog, so like they are meant to be insect like at least even if they fall far from the conventional arthropod appearance, like they look like vertebrates but function biologically as arthropods, there is the grub and dog aspect in it.
*Consumes video like a starving man* More Pikmin biology please.
Don't worry a part two covering every creature I didn't mention (including the Pikmin 4 newcomers!) IS happening! Though I'm probably gonna make another Smash Bros Spirits video first, y'know to try and prevent possible Pikmin burn-out.
pikmin biology mukbang
@@CesarSalad69 Louie, is that you?
Waiter! More Pikmin bilogy!
Same I love biology. Especially pikmin biology. Probably because of all of those countless hours I spent in the piklopedia when I was little. Like I would spend almost all day everyday in the piklopedia.
I get the sense that the Piklopedia is NOT that accurate. It's pretty clear that the Bulborbs aren't terribly speciated. Larvae, Albino Dwarf, Russus and Empress are all the same species pretty clearly, with Russus (Red, Spotted Bulborb) male specimens capable of transforming into Empress Bulblax with the right conditions. This tidbit in the Pikmin 2 'pedia tells us a few things, like how Empress and Red Bulborb are the same species, and also that the scientific names provided do not fit actual taxonomy, with many bulborb and blax variations being subspecies, breeds, sexes or stages of life, rather than distinct species.
Not sure about the separation of juvenile creatures as their own species but besides that this is everything I wanted from a sequel to that griffco video and more
Wonderful work, not only is the topic exciting and your choices well explained, but I also love the look of the cladogram itself. It somehow manages to feel like something I’d see in a pikmin game whilst remaining informative and easy to read.
I do have one quick note I’d like to leave for this, as well as for most other Pikmin cladograms. People making their own pikmin phylogenies have a tendency to assume that all of Olimar’s observations are entirely accurate, except for when it’s convenient to deviate like with him labelling baby Empress Bulblax as a separate species. But both in and out of universe there is a large amount of room for error. Out of universe, I’m sure the team didn’t feel like taking a course on evolutionary biology to make sure that every entry for their children’s game made perfect sense.
And in universe, Olimar had literally been to this planet for a minimum of a month as of writing the first entries of Pikmin two, with very little time to study the organisms and zero access to their internal anatomy or fossil records.
Like Darwin, Olimar gave us a groundwork, but many of his classifications make little sense. Most obviously the fact that almost every organism has its own binomial name, even when he literally states in the same entry that they’re just juveniles of an already known species. He also literally changes his own classification of the breadbugs upon discovering that they’re mimics, and changes the scientific name of the Red Bulborb when other species are discovered.
Its clear that he’s not infallible, so I don’t think it makes sense to take every classification he gives as fact. Like, the Fireflap Bulborb is almost certainly not in the same genus as the other Breadbugs, developing powered flight takes millions of years and that level of divergence would 100% seperate the Fireflap Bulborb into at least its own genus, if not its own family.
Similarly for the Bulbeel having almost zero traits in common with the other members of the genus Oculus.
This was an long and incredibly unnecessary rant, but I thought I’d share my one critique of this video.
Very funny sidenote, Olimar literally doesn’t know what a species is “Technically, this is merely a Shaggy Long Legs that has lost its hair. But since the hair never grows back, this is considered a separate species and classified under its own name.”. What
Very good points all around! I mostly stuck to Olimar's notes with only a few edits, since I have no real understanding of biology or how to go about diverting from Olimar's groundwork. That said I would LOVE to see someone more well versed in biology do exactly that.
Also thank you so much for the kind words! Happy to hear I made it pleasant to look at and listen to!
The Fact: In Korean Version Of Pikmin 4, Pikmins And Creeping Chrysanthemum Family Are Both Has Same Clade Named "보근류" on Olimar's Creeping Chrysanthemum Note
I know that the vanilla and queen Shearwigs have different scientific names, but there's no reason for that so just clump them together
small note:
the bloathers classification makes sense, but insects definitely can have more hair than you'd think. just to clarify. can't think of any blubbery ones though.
second note:
pseudooculii is most likely pronounced in its two root halves, being "pseudo" and "oculii".
and lepidoptera is "leh-pih-dop-tur-uh", not spoken as one long word again.
third note:
diptera, the I in it is pronounced like in the word rip. "dip-ter-ruh".
The Mamutas are probably a branch of mammals that split off from all other mammals before they even had evolved
26:36 Hemiptera is order of true bugs, including stinkbugs, cicadas, water bugs, assassin bugs, and pond skaters among others, while Diptera is the order of true flies. Based on the stabbing attacks of the Burrow-Nits, they might fit better into the Hemiptera, which typically possess piercing mouthparts, and have evolved protective measures to preserve their wings while burrowing.
The mandiblards' names often including 'grub', the term used for beetle larvae, and their paired mandibles, might be more fitting of the Coleoptera. Furthermore, the sheargrub and especially the queen sheargrub have a glossy carapace covering their bodies, which is more commonly seen on beetles than on flies. Pikmin 4's Piklopedia entry for the Mama Sheargrub describes it as neotenous, implying that the grub-like form they are encountered in is not their adult form.
Pikmin 4’s lore on the cannon beetle/larva is crazy. Armored Cannon Beetles and Horned Beetles are 2 different things: but also they cross bread with each other
BUT ALSO the Horned Cannon beetles (who are actually the armored cannon beetles we saw in pikmin 1) go and kill Armored Cannon Larva and we’ve never seen an Armored Cannon Beetle
The lore of pikmin is insane
I personally am of the belief that the Grub Dog family is a lineage of amphibians, as they share a lot of similarities to frogs, namely in their vertebrate anatomy, the fact that the larvae have no legs and vestigial tails, and wide mouths that take up a majority of their bodies.
As for the concern about the caste system, there are vertebrates that have evolved this before, namely Naked Mole Rats. It's not impossible, just very unlikely.
I never understood why the Baldy Long Legs is a different species to the Shaggy one, as its just one that lost its hair as olimar puts it. Also, I think that the Man-at-legs might be more related to the Shaggy long legs, as they both open their central body horizontally unlike the beady and raging ones, ands simply just got taken over by machinery.
Same reason a hairy frog is not a frog without hair if you pluck it bald. It still has the pores and follicles that grow hair while Baldy does not. Distinct difference.
According to Pikmin 3 Deluxe, the Baldy Long Legs never grows back the hair, and that's the main reason it's counted as a different species. No clue if this has any basis in real world taxonomy tho.
@@jacobs.9661 It definitely doesn't. Although I wouldn't hold the Piklopedia to be 100% biologically accurate. Still love it tho.
@@dolphinius123IDK don't some adult tarantulas have the capacity to shed hairs but not to regrow them?
And arachnorbs would probably more similar to IRL spiders in how their hair works than mammalian hair?
Or am I missing the point😅?
You say this as a human being in a human body, with our ape relatives as common knowledge.
2:07 now you gotta add also the Goolix in the Pikmin 4 video since it's been confirmed to be a prothozoa, and has new relatives.
And speaking of that, the Japanese name of the Sunsquish is similar to the Goolix and Foolix (Minimochi, Mizumochi and Mitsumochi respectively) so I think they're meant to be related.
Nice work! My only potential point of contesting would be that, I’m pretty sure the games attempt to indicate that the only mammalian species left (encountered so far) is the Bearded Amprat. It’s Piklopedia entry mentions how it’s interesting that it’s the only species that breastfeeds it’s young, and it treats this as unique. I think the Grub-dogs and Breadbugs are meant to be highly derived arthropods. If you didn’t want to go that route, you could maybe consider them some form of reptile, even.
Yeah I was gonna say this too. Honestly the lore of pikmin is weird, especially given the house setting of pikmin 4. I wonder if there’s been some sort of extinction like event that’s wiped off most large animals? Maybe the amprat being the only mammalian creature is a reference towards how mammals evolved from the extinction of the dinosaurs? Food for thought
I love this, Pikmin is the only franchise where I will manually search up taxonomy for.
It would be amazing if pikmin 5 had a taxonomy-like piklopedia design where you can just scroll through the cladogram, seeing which enemies are related.
awesome video, I love when people make cladograms for video game creatures and I of course love the piklopedia and all the pikmin creatures
D'awww thanks! Happy to see I didn't entirely screw it up!
This is so cool, you should totally make one with pikmin 4 enemies too
I must “pick men” as my partners!
Update: pikmin 4 still doesn’t have the armored cannon beetle in the piklopedia
Instead, they have the horned Cannon beetle
Well, we're not sure if the Armored Cannon Beetle in Pikmin 1 is an actual Armored Cannon Beetle or a misidentified Horned Cannon Beetle.
Just because the cannon beetle in pikmin 1 might not have been armored doesn’t change the fact that armored cannon beetle is not in the piklopedia
I can see your rationale with the armoured crawmad but that many legs absolutely cannot be a reptile
Unless it’s radioactive
18:34 it makes more sense as an arthopod, since all land vertebrates are tetrapods (Ie, only have 4 limbs [or less]) and the armored thing clearly has more than 4 legs
Although considering the radiation, it isnt that much of a strech to suggest it got more legs from radiation exposure and somehow the extra legs helped it
Other than that 1 nit pick the video is pretty on point, at first i also questioned about the Maestro Scronet since it had lepidopteran wings but the regular scronet it commands has wings which looked more like hymenopterans and had a stinger, which lepidopterans do not
(Side note 26:41 Hemiptera is the order of true bugs, aphids, scale insects, cicadas etc)
Yeah, there's a lot of creatures in this series that fall in the 'shares elements of two totally different types of creature' category. I still think it's a heavily mutated reptile, but I can get the arthropod argument too.
The problem is that has a jaw structure like a reptile while also having an oddly toad like flesh
I've thought about what in the world Mawdads are for a while, and I've come to the conclusion that it'd make most sense that they were descendants of Velvet Worms
18:30 I would put the Armoured Mawdad and Crushblats as relatives, considering the Mawdad has the same generate feet-shape, skin texture and defense method
also...the beetle in Pikmin 4 is the "Horned Cannon Beetle" I'd put it as being distantly related to the Armoured Cannon beetle (somehow)
Yeah that's the type of thing i'd hope for with one of these lists. The way i'd put it is this one is very *safe* in assuming if things arent mentioned to be related, its not.
But heck if youre going to make a family tree, go wild with it, making very loose connections and pretending convergent evolution doesnt exist.
I actually am making a pikmin evolution tree ironically@@Yipper64
Great work with the on-hand info.
I had no clue I needed a Pikimin biology video
But god how blind was I
I loved this video, Pikmin has be one of my favorite games and the piklopedia has always been my favorite part of it..
Though I personally don't think that the phosbat is a mammal. Nor do I believe the grubdogs are either. Like stated they don't have any similarities to mammals other than live birth and complex eyes. Aswell as only a select few of them having hair. They also look nothing like the bearded amprat, not even a little. Also, (imo) the fact that all grubdogs have only 2 limbs with no presence of a second pair, you'd think that at least one of them would retain all of their limbs. Or at least some remnants of them.
It is my personal belief that grubdogs and the phosbat are either fish that have come to land. Or some kind of strange reptiles. There's also the possibility that they aren't even Vertebrates, as they could very well be some strange future invertebrates, as we know that Pikmin takes place in the future..
It's also possible that I'm wrong about all of this and that grubdogs are just some strange mammals.
I also believe that the bloathers aren't mammals either, as the bloathers are clearly insects with their antenna and one member even has insectoid wings. As for how they could have those mammalian traits, I believe they just evolved those, as Pikmin does take place in a future earth
I can understand why you’d put the Empress Bulblax in another genus but I think it’s waymore plausible that it’s the same species like the Red Bulborb especially looking at the extra Piklopedia notes in 4. Tho I’m aware that this does not include infos from 4.
20:57 shape wise, I'd even add cuttlefish into the inspo for it!
3:57
That ..
is not how species work. She's the same species else she wouldn't be able to make bulborbs.
I think Grub dogs, phosbats, and Mawdads are more closely related to amphibians. I noticed that Mamutas and groinks aren’t on this tree. Mamutas are probably mammals, specifically monotremes. Groinks are most likely fish.
Great video! Only thing I noticed is that I don’t think that the jellyfloats and medusal slurkers are cnidarians. I think it’s more likely, especially considering the jellyfloats’ bioluminescence and both species’ lack of cnidocytes (stinging cells) which all cnidarians have, that the jellyfloats and medusal slurkers more likely belong to the phylum ctenophora, commonly known as comb jellies, where both of these distinctions are very common.
The Dirigibugs seem to resemble tree hoppers.
i would argue a lot of the insects that apear "meaty" just have softer exp skeletons lioe catterpillars and other types of larvae
Oh shoot that's a really good point. What about mouths, teeth, and tongues? Do any insects have those?
@@jacobs.9661 no tounges but if you mean vertical jaws instead of mandibles plenty of insects and arthropods have mouthparts somewhat like that beattles and cammel spiders come to mind
and for teeth?
maggots have warlus like tusks
their heads are just so small its hard to see them
26:38
Nope! Diptera is the fly family, hemiptera are the true bugs.
True bugs have piercing sucking mouthparts.
Creatures in hemiptera include cicadas and planthoppers, Waterbugs and backswimmers, boatmen, water striders, assassin bugs and bed bugs
Its fascinating seeing the connections between these iconic enemies. Also I hardly recognize all these Hey! Pikmin enemies so seeing all of these creatures im unfamiliar with is awesome
I like with the earlier games they are made for children but stay somewhat serious but unfortunately i can't say that about the 4th game
When I was younger I thought the skutter chucks were just younger armored mawdads
I read this as the pikmin tax and i was already interested
If someone who has never played pikmin listened to this, they would think you’re insane with these names😂
as an aspiring zoologist who’s been following more pikmin content as of late I owe you my life
There's men and you pick them!?!? Lemme jump on that ship!
I will say that the grub dogs should be less split up because it's obvious enough from text and gameplay that they are all VERY closely related and can all function together in a hive like strucuture! Not to mention I know 4 cam out after this but ALL bulborbs share the albino dwarf as their child or toddler variant as we see them walking arounf with regular borbs and whip borbs!
Thank you for making this video😭😭 I’ve been making cladograms and data sheets ever since pikmin 4 came out
15:50 I don't know about this but I'm kinda thinking that Breadbugs similar to Bulborbs but they aren't related to the family species was presumably known as convergent evolution, an evolution that's somehow causing the structure of the species itself end up becoming similar to an other unrelated species
This is phenomenal work! Extremely entertaining and felt immersive! I hope to see this amazing content expanded on in the future with the complete piklopedia in the future ❤
I had to double take at your subscriber amount just now, amazing video, hopefully the algorithm takes it for a field trip!
Very good video. The animal life in pikmin is one of my favorite things in the game
Same. Olimar's notes are SO fascinating!
1:58 can’t we assume these are animals using mimicry and apply physarum genus to slime like characters
🚨🚨NERD ALERT🚨🚨
Whoever said that Skitterlings are of the Hemiptera order is sentenced to reading the entire wiki pages for: Phasmatodea (order)... Meh, skip over Euphasmatodea, but not over Phyllioidea. Come on, that's a no-brainer
Edit: Diptera is also the order of true flies (and mosquitoes); Hemiptera is the order of true bugs, though sometimes it also refers to heteroptera, a suborder of hemiptera, apparently
THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS VIDEO!
plz do dis for pikmin 4
4:19
In names such as these, the amount of i actually change the pronunciation
They would be Kageya me eye, instead of just kageyami
You have your work cut out for you with all the new enemies and types in pikmin 4.
Personally I always thought that the grubdogs and breadbugs weren't even animals. I always thought they would make the most sense as a super-evolved sentient form of fungi, similar to how pikmin are sentient plants. Mainly just due to the mushroom like markings on bulborbs backs, but breadbugs growing out of bread would also track as far as fungi are concerned.
Big fat reach but
Yeast?
Aren't Bulbmin already a type of fungi?
@@Irreve-rsible Bulbmin are parasitic pikmin that infest bulborbs, according to Olimar
Great video! I’m looking forward to part 2 including pikmin 4!
Emesink. Fentestik. Mua. (Amazing fantastic, smooch)
Ive watch that video like 7 times so Ive got you beat
Can you link a "full resolution" version of the massive tree in the description? I want to take a closer look
Done and done, it's in the description!
@@jacobs.9661 Thank you
I really like the Piklopedia in 4 - but I miss the music from Pikmin 2s Piklopedia!
8:12 I'm surprised you didn't bring up more inherently biological features, like its more spindly legs and lack of stomping feet.
17:18 There are several hairy arthropos/insects, like bees and spiders.
Amazing vid.
Some advice for you: SONG VARIETY. I feel like Im losing it while watxhing this. Pikmin has plenty of calm music, you can just loop through like 4 songs edit: the song does switch, but 2 songs for a 20 minute video is not quite enough
Very interesting topic, very good video.
Manatlegs is actually pretty basic, its just its symbiotic relationship. But then again its legs are a lot more thin
I cant stop laughing at the blowhogs
Quick information update/addition for part 2/PIKMIN 4 PIKLOPEDIA SPOILER
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The full-grown Armored Cannon Beetle is not in Pikmin 4, and may have never been seen. The creature in Pikmin 4 is actually a Horned Cannon Beetle, and Olimar's piklopedia entry states that it was mistaken to be an adult Armored Cannon Beetle and is non-native to the continent where the game takes place.
This could mean two things (regardless of timeline shenanigans):
1. The Armored Cannon Beetles in Pikmin 1 are, in fact, Armored Cannon Beetles. The Horned Cannon Beetles in Pikmin 4 are a different species that looks similar.
2. The Armored Cannon Beetles in Pikmin 1 are actually Horned Cannon Beetles, meaning that no adult Armored Cannon Beetle has been observed in any Pikmin game.
Keeping with the Granitus genus, the Arctic Cannon Beetle is potentially the only member to show both larval and adult forms in the games.
Hey there! Great video, and I too was inspired by Griffco to look more into Pikmin taxonomy. However, your video reignited my inspiration and I am planning on doing a video on this myself at some point in the future. What program did you use to make the cladograms?
I used Photoshop and built the whole thing by hand!
@@jacobs.9661that’s mad impressive
@@jacobs.9661ok thanks a lot!
oh good, someone is working on a more expanded one; ive been looking for that.
providing interestign content i want to follow up on; that's how you get a subscribe.
i hope you end up making this tree unhealthily large.
Can't wait to see the final version!
Grouping Echindoterms with Chordata makes sense (although disputed) as they develop anus before mouths(Protostormia). Together with the Mollusks, Arthopods and a couple other phyla they form the clade for animals with bilateral symmentry during embryonic development which Cnidarians do not have. I think you did a Great job I just wanted to add in some more details, and comment for the algorithm.
Pikmin player guide also has info for this video
Love this a lot. The zoology nut in me adores how much love was put into some silly lil beasts.
you don’t understand how excited i am for you to make a part 2!! thanks for this amazing video!
will part 2 also contain plants and fungi? or just the updated animals from the 4 piklopedia
Part 2 will have literally every enemy that ever got a Piklopedia entry. The only exceptions are some of the background plants from Pikmin 2, like the Margaret, Glowstem, and Shoot.
If we get a Pikmin Deluxe (for Pikmin 1); I hope it gets a piklopedia, too.
I just watched the video you mentioned.
I cried when I heard the blowhog family was called sus.
Finally another person doing this!
This was a pretty good video mate. Just clean up a bit on the editing, like your takes you should've cut out, and you'll have a damn good video
I can't even tell you how embarrassing it was to not do a thorough check of this video to ensure I had properly cleaned up the editing, mainly cause I hate the sound of my own voice, only for the video to get like 10k views, and finding out afterwards I left in some dumb bloopers. The ONE TIME I don't do a final check, and OF COURSE it gets seen by everyone!
@jacobs.9661 hey keep a chin up mate, you're doin great
Great work!! You forgot the Ujadani though hahahahahah.
I LOVE OPIUM
i wanna eat this video
The centipare vs adult centipare thing could be similar to the bulborb vs dwarf bulborb thing. Theyre different species but named as if they're related
This is really interresting
You had to put an hard work to that and i see it
Hermit crabs are tenacity not crabs
That was very cool!
comment boosting for the algorithm but also to share: the c in cnidaria isnt silent! its pronounced similarly to zack snyder's last name. someones probably already corrected u on this tho lolol
Thanks for your work on this video! Taxonomy is fun, even if it is complicated. One note however is that Aves is a branch of Reptilia, not seperate from it!
4:04 the question I suppose is if sex characteristics notate different taxonomy. It doesnt traditionally but in this case I guess it can. As well as the larval state apparently getting its own category... interesting...
25:15 ok so not doing that for this but you did that for the grubdogs? Idk this is confusing for sure.
I definitely would have done this differently, no slight on you of course, but i'd have taken any creature with any kind of similarity and assume they are more directly related than not in some way. For example i'd have some link from a shearwig to a snooping snitchbug. I just dont see how those could be unrelated.
Where do you plan on putting pikmin themselves?
Pikman are tasty
the best video I've ever seen
I find that HIGHLY unlikely, but thank you regardless!
@@jacobs.9661 your welcome
so how long have you been a youtuber?
Maybe close to a year.
Hi
Pikmin 4 has been a boon for pikmin taxonomy and I love it
Man, I can't believe how many families have new members because of Hey! Pikmin.
Just today I found out that the Crawbster finally has a cousin, the Armurk!
great video but gog the way you pronounce a few of the scientific names actually hurts,,
I'm bad at saying things. Like REALLY bad.
Bro needs more attention.
I mean DO I? Do I REALLY?