Multiple Accounts & Azul Drama on BGA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.พ. 2025
- Many of you would be following the recent drama on Board Game Arena where multiple high level Azul players have had their accounts banned. Have they been banned unfairly? Why did QueenDong's Elo get reset for all games? I do some investigating to find out.
That's a pity it turns out to be like that. The sad part is that Miss Queen actually has exceptional Azul skills which makes this behavior all the more unnecessary and confusing. Thanks for all the detective work, Sam!
Exactly how I feel right now. No doubt she was/is a top 2 player in the world without needing to cheat.
Did not expect to see "Drama on BGA" in any video title, but here we are :D. Excellent digging down a big rabbit hole :D.
Kinda reminiscent of the situation in chess where people cheat to get some recognition (no wonder QueenDong amassed a following by being on the top of the leaderboard of a very popular game for 5 years).
I am a sucker for some dramaaaa 💁♀
Azul and Chess have more similarities than we thought!
Great detective work compounded by being in the right place at the right time for the last damning piece of evidence. Love it!
Excellent vid, gotta love a bit of drama! Such a shame how this stuff happens..
Thanks for the effort, Sam.
More of this stuff! Exposé of the many BGA cheaters. If you are ever wrong, you can always make a public apology video. But I don't think you are wrong on this one. I'm very glad you did it for this individual who has a large following, which, after this reveal, I believe is undeserved.
I agree that the video was very well done and in a respectful way, really speaks to the integrity of Sam as a player and TH-camr!
You're right Michael. What this channel is missing is a public apology video!
You said "In the updated Terms of Services there is no use of the word 'multiple' anywhere".
But the word 'several' can be found under VII. Guarantees - Liability:
"- not to create several Accounts: the User undertakes to create only one Account corresponding to them. If BGA deletes a User's Account in the event of non-compliance with these Player G.T.S., the User undertakes not to create another Account without prior authorisation from BGA;"
Yep, good catch. Which is odd, because if you try to report someone for having multiple accounts it says they are allowed. It makes me wonder how recently the ToS was changed
I got an response back from the support team regarding multiple accounts as I have them , they said playing for ELO on more than 1 account is not permitted , you are only allowed to have secondary accounts if these never compete in ranked games (normal mode or arena) for example for tutorials or friendly mode,
What an interesting video, nice detective work. I would also say on a side note I appreciate your videos immensely, especially your series on Its A Wonderful World.
Love this video Detective Sam!!! Well done.
I've heard it said before and it's worth repeating.
Great players don't cheat to show they are great, they cheat because they feel it is unfair the luck that has happened to them, they are great and deserve to win (in this case, the Arena season).
It really is a sad show of character. There is almost no clout for winning an arena season, very few people actually care, sad to sell your integrity for miniscule clout.
This. I genuinely don't get it - there's no money involved, so this small bragging right is a big enough deal to cheat?
In this case there is some monetary incentive. QueenDong has her own Bilibili account where she makes Azul videos. Her fans also gift her BGA premium membership. There are some tangible benefits for winning 5 arena seasons.
@@NoWondersTV Ah, thank you for correcting me. Still, even good or great players are not immune to cheating. Shameful, really.
Also, I'll say my point stands, very small benefit to trade your integrity for.
@@NoWondersTV she is not active in bilibili at all. you can see she has only several videos (less than 10 altogether) and bilibili does not work like youtube, you wont earn money from the advertisements and views like youtube but only directly donation. and it is transparent how much Dong get which is very poor. In fact till today she has altogether only 821 followers in bilibili and 28000 views altogether from all her 9 videos. Obviously azul is not a popular game in China like lol or pubg.
Why they even allow manual matchaking games into ranking? Why not limiting ranked to random opponent games only?
It is random I think, but if you both join at the same time you'll likely get matched w/ the person who joined at the same time as you.
I use the term rating too loosely. Arena mode is random opponents (although, yes, not that hard to manipulate). Normal games still gain/lose Elo points, but have no contribution to arena seasons. QueenDong talks a lot about being over 1000 Elo so it was obviously still an important milestone for her.
Love this kind of in depth research of potential cheaters! great job!
This sentence can be weird because of the translator
My account was deleted but I played so much time on bga before. I was Queendong's friend, and one day I heard something amazing from her. She could use Kndr's account, and she had played Kndr's account to reach Kndr's to elit in the splendor game. I recognize that she is a great player but..she has a bad side.
That is very surprising. Thank you for sharing
Interesting that there is a current Azul tournament with Queen Dong as the administrator going on, whereby 2 players with similar names have withdrawn at the same time, and now their accounts don't exist. They were Vivaldi65 and Valdi65US. Are these players also part of this 'Azul Drama on BGA'?
That is interesting, as far as I know if you delete your account it doesn't withdraw you from a tournament. So it sounds like they both manually withdrew and then deleted their accounts. Is it related to this particular drama? Don't know.
Nice work Detective!
thank you for this video. very well done investigation.
Got shown one of the 4 agricola games since this happened and was curious. Thanks for the investigation.
I had the pleasure of getting thoroughly outplayed by queendong in azul once. She's clearly quite good at the game. That doesn't mean she's not cheating.
A good thing for people to keep in mind is that willingness to cheat has zero correlation with skill. It's rare to have someone willing to cheat, it's rare that a random player will be very skilled, so someone being both is very rare but not impossible.
It's actually not that uncommon amongst top rated players in games that have a luck element. Used to happen a lot with Magic: The Gathering for example.
You are better than your opponent, so cheating only guarantees that the "correct" result happens without the luck of the draw getting in the way of your clearly superior skills.
And really skilled players make the best cheaters, because they have a deep understanding of their game, so they know what will look suspicious and what won't raise any flags
@@SilmarPlaysBGs That is a really good explanation
The tea i didnt know i wanted til just now
"I would inherently trust Chinese players in any game they play. They have never been known to cheat." - No One Ever, 2024
There are good and bad eggs from all over the world, definitely not a race thing
you should be a mod and hunt the cheaters...
Honestly the mods do a fantastic job when they have things reported to them. The accounts of CnPlayer and Spring0105 were banned within 2 hours after I made the reports. I understand they don't have the time to manually hunt cheaters down, but if we all provide evidence and report the job will get done.
How sad that people can´t play by the rules. I have encountered a guy that I think switched player mid-session where he played very badly in the first half and suddenly did a bunch of power moves.
Wasn't CnPlayer also featured in one of the suspicious games of the last Ark Nova champion? Is he running a wintrading service or something?
He is now dubbed CnPaypal. Thanks Panda for coming up with the nickname!
Excellent video
wow. when bga penalizes a player, they should make the reason public.
You like public executions, Grim, interesting
@@NoWondersTV off with her head!!!
@NoWondersTV So apparently CnPlayer is now permanently banned. And so is QueenDong. Cough coughs. I don't rule out there's a ring of players cycling accounts amongst them or playing on different accounts to smurf/give advice while the lower skilled player in that game is playing arena. If you noticed while playing against certain "quality" players, there's always someone else coming in on BGA itself spectating your live game for the entirety of it.
I'm a Singaporean Chinese so I can understand perfectly what is being said but wasn't following this drama till late. Apparently from remnants of CnPlayer's profile, I can see that QueenDong has been raising forum threads asking BGA to answer the reason for ELO reset of QueenDong and deletion of MissDong account. Given the evidence in this video, I think the onus is on her (or him, hell with AI these days, I think it's a him) to explain the games against the other CN players, and especially why it needs to be played in Arena rather than friendly games if it's friend vs friend basis. I play friendly games with my GF all the time on BGA.
And going by the basis that you are a paying customer or that you are a skilled player doesn't explain why you are not a cheater and why you are not bannable. That's like saying if I pay taxes, I can steal from my local store.
CnPlayer, Bing0924 and Spring0105 have all been banned yesterday. QueenDong deleted her account. Are there more accounts out there? Almost certainly.
And yes, it is pretty clear now that she has no good explanation for her actions, hence no public response and deletion of account.
@@NoWondersTV how do you get the conclusion that deleting account means having no good explanation. This can be simply meaning disappointment.
That's some nice detective work 👀
Will we have to check for anal beads in Azul tournaments soon?
Gotta say, I was a bit of a QueenDong fan myself. Having spectated many of her games, she was clearly the best player in the world at some point, at least until Sapperlot came along, and wouldn't have needed to cheat. But well, neither did Tsong Chen. (Definitely not giving them the benefit of the doubt anymore.) Really shows how even some of the best players can't resist the temptation.
What I take away from this case is that I need to get in touch with CnPaypal as soon as possible. Dude is literally one of the strongest players in multiple games and could fight for the Arena title himself, yet he is willing to get farmed by his buddies. Why can't I have friends like this? Clearly I'm in the wrong social circle.
There's the Azul World Championship happening today! I wonder if they got security checked at the gate
there is a simple answer. Miss Dong didnt farm points from CnPlayer, but just crushed him again and again. This is also simple to check. Just find the games between them and see how she won the games. I think you have a very good abilitiy to analyse the games and let the azul speak for itself to see if she cheated. instead of the statistics. Statistic is often wrong and misleading, like my mom and my dad have averagely one ball.
@@SchengW Do you honestly believe a player of CnPlayer's rating would have such a losing record against anyone? Why is Miss Dong playing against the 2nd and 3rd accounts of CnPlayer? There is a very simple answer indeed.
@@NoWondersTV if a player plays many games enough, it is very common to meet same players and the duration of an azul game is much shorter than ark nova. If you search the games between their main, you might find more. This doesn’t mean someone is sending points to the other. But if you analyze the games themselves and find maybe most of the games are clearly losing in purpose, then that is a good evidence that they are cheating. So this is the direction you can try. Btw actually i win all my games against jdansp, but you cannot make any conclusion from this statistic. The only thing you can analyze is the games we played and find clued from that. This is a good example that Statistics often misleads people
@@SchengW If you beat JDansp 44 times in a row then I would absolutely make the same conclusion.
Clearly a cheater, should be banned in full
Is it the same CnPlayer that was suspected in the Ark Nova end of season drama?!?
The same CnPlayer. The digging actually made me less suspicious of Tsong Chen. He reached the #1 arena spot without any help (I checked him too). The suspicious part was the 2 end of season games to hold on to that spot.
@@NoWondersTV I don't understand how these smurf accounts all maintain high rankings when they are intentionally throwing games?
@@xiwodeqiudai They are exceptionally skilled players.
It's also part of how the Elo system works.
If I lose 1 game then I am starting my next game from a lower Elo base. I gain more for winning and lose less for losing. After ~100 games these occasional losses get washed out
@@NoWondersTV Ah, so despite being excellent players, they can achieve a higher ELO than if they just played straight? Is this now the tactic of all top players?
@@FlamethrowerJane Winning 100% of your games will get you an infinitely higher rating than winning 95% of your games. How widespread this is and how long it's been happening for? Don't know.
Love some good drama ☕️
so the "best" azul arena player isn't really the best then. just farming free wins to have their online alias sit at the top
That's the sad thing, all cheating aside she is still one of the best Azul players in the world, if not the best. It was unnecessary :/
What are some other ways a player can cheat on BGA without getting caught? Asking for a friend haha 😊
If you get really REALLY good at a game you can win over 90% of the time!
First we lose Queen Elizabeth. Then we lose faith in QueenPWNSalot. Now QueenDong. It’s a bad time for our queens.
whooooa thats crazy!
Its not surprising there where there is a leaderboard people will cheat to climb it.
There is a player who has the 3rd or 4th highest xp of all games) i wont name them that has been permanently banned from chat. Wonder why.
Also look at all the games that can be beaten with solvers. Chess, connect 4, lots of the word games...
IMOP, the only players at top of the boards fall into two categories, cheaters or those with the massive amount of time to grind all day every day. I will likely never attain such rankings unless I get fired lol
@@thomaslange2262 it highly depends on the game. If you play some niche game, it doesn't take long. For example I played Zuuli (small drafting game with enough skill expression) for some time and got to number 2 overall in around 30 games. Just win enough.
Another case would be high luck games with bigger playercounts like Challengers, getting into the top 50 or top 10 is doable if you hit a hotstreak
So CnPlayer is the same player that recently had some very suspicious games against the current Ark Nova champ? Not sus at all 🤫.
Maybe someone have AI neural network for Azul game =))
I've seen some Azul AIs, have not been impressed so far :P
spring copied dongs post does not mean they are the same person. Its quite possible they are just friends and Spring is supporting Dong for her unfairness. You should check the games between them and see if the games between them are arranged or real game which Spring just lost 6 times against Dong. The only real valid evidence is the game itself, like how much time both players spent, if the flow of game is natural and so on. Instead of just two accounts posts the same post.
Huh? What are you talking about?
You got it the other way around: QueenDong was the one who copied Spring's comment
@@robertbrickland2610 so u also think they are different people. Thats more reasonable.
@@SchengW Huh? I'm completely lost with your logic here. Like, why would Spring said "I think only me can reach the win percentage of 96" in the first place. Remember, Spring said that first.
No shot, CNplayer has been known to give it all in the ark games he plays, I think you're just salty because you lost to him 40 days ago.
Also, I never said i wanted to be anonymous, wth
Thank you for your assistance with this investigation, Mr Secret Police
I mean , you have Secret in your Handle
@@syncretist1701 ohh, my handle was supposed to be a secret, not very good at this secrecy-thing.
Can't tell if you're are joking/trolling or actually defending
@@kevinmcgaire8684 The easy way to tell is assume JD is never being serious. He can't help it