I love how there are a ton of people saying they should have procured a more expensive katana, but no one is saying the long sword should have costed the same to make the test fair
Weebs do the same thing with guns. The nambu pistols and arisaka rifles were cheap surplus like everything else at the end of WW2, then weebs came around and gave them mythical status before ammo for them was obtainable and ballistics tests could be done
@@mahmoudabduladeez7362 in that it's a bolt action rifle with a bore roughly 6mm-8mm firing a full power rifle cartridge, yes. You could equate the rifles of the day to modern semi auto service pistols as to how similar they were to each other
@@Sunflowercowboy actually FYI western experts find nambu and browning to be comparable in ingenuity, quality and reliability they don't compare any other gunsmiths to browning that I am aware of not really sure what you are talking about but whatever
@Z.O.M.G what you and this channel don't understand is that a katana is a FENCING weapon meaning that it was designed for agility and speed so that it could make fast strikes with surgical precision it is not the Japanese version of a two handed broadsword that you handle like some berserker swinging for the fences to make a really fair comparison to a katana with its euro counterpart this test should have been made with something like a light rapier that is not made from modern spring steel but made in the actual types of steel common to Europe also the presenters of this video kept buzzwording "1,000 dollar katana" like that was the top of the line shizzleforizzle but the fact is that not all katana are created equal just like euro swords for example the ulfbert was an exceptional blade with fantastic properties meant to be carried by a king other viking swords were simply not as good well Japan is not too different yes there are some katana that were made for lesser bushi foot soldiers and some worthy of the shogun with fantastic properties that you could not even look at or buy for less than $500,000 US dollars this whole argument is stupid because it is based on the assumption that all steel in Japan is crap when the fact is that there is good steel AND crap steel in Japan just like europe and every other place in the world this argument is just like this channel coming from infantile and petty mentalities
Shad and crew, loving the trio format! Been a fan for a very long time. I have something rather inexpensive I think you guys would be perfect to test. Post apocalypse on the horizon, we NEED to know the efficacy of Tire Armor. Love you guys. Keep up the stellar work!
One seriously cannot explain just how much abuse they put that bastard sword through before this, and it's a held up perfectly fine, even until now. So yeah.
Yeah, that sword has been around in his videos for quite a while, and it has seen A LOT of abuse. It's amazing how well the blade is holding up after all of this
@@Am_Cookie2436 that's modern metallurgy for you. I've actually been dreaming of commissioning a sword from the very best steel you can get, with high hardness AND flexibility (called trip steel, if you want to look it up).
katanas very easily reach that point where you are paying for traditional craftsmanship rather than durability or quality anymore. the difference will be even more pronounced when you consider traditional craftsmanship is basically replicating the historical process of making good enough steel given lack of good raw materials. Modern springsteel is going to be more durable in almost every way. One thing I would be curious about is how good historical medieval spring steel was. Surely we have a range from really good to really bad, but I suspect their definition of really good probably didn't reach modern industrial levels. I don't know how easy it is to obtain a longsword made from historical raw materials, but it would be interesting to compare historical and modern longswords.
A good idea. It is noted that the poorer ends of swords were really genuinely crappy steel. Some historical examples are equivalent to only 1025 steel, which is barely high-carbon. They do all tend to show evidence of a monohardening process. Higher end examples have actually shown to be very comparable to 1065, 1075, and some modern spring steels. The later the sword was made tends to increase the quality of the steel. Rapiers were only possible with good steel. The Renaissance and Late Medieval periods saw good swords being made with plenty good steel.
well, there is that video of a german sword smith Stefan Roth, who is well-known in both, historical japanese forging and medieval european forging and learned both traditional fighting styles.I seem to remember he made all the swords they tested himself.
Wootz steel (which isn't even European but it's the best pre modern steel, so expect worse) is the closest and even it's not better than the best modern spring steels while costing it's weight in silver. So even the best historic swords would definitely be at best on par with modern processes but not identical (Wootz steel depended on the impurities in it's source for some properties)
Modern steel is vastly superior. Higher tensile strength, considerably more impact resistance and way fewer impurities. The historical method is cheap steel. Even if it costs more to make. I have owned and made weapons using historical methods, just as I have made and owned weapons made using modern methods. And some in between. Modern steel is just so much superior in terms of quality and lack of impurities. You're better off comparing historical steel to wood, and not modern refined steel. Hell, modern nickle and aluminum are better than medieval steel!
@@spicketspaghet7773 steel that still contains 10% or higher impurities. In Williamsburg there is a great little blacksmith shop. They make weapons using colonial age processes, the steel that is produced using colonial techniques is nowhere near as good as any steel made using the Bessemer Process. Or modern variations of. Open Hearth smelting is nowhere near as good as Basic Oxygen or Electric Arc processes.
I was always amused when (somebody I know) would hear that a blade had over 1000 layers, he would say "it was folded over 1000 times". "No", I would say, "it was folded 10 times" Each fold doubles the layers. 1=(2), 2=(4), 3=(8), 4=(16), 5=(32), 6=(64), 7=(128), 8=(256), 9=(512), 10(1024)
At some point the layers become thinner than the iron atoms that make up the steel. Which is kind of the point if you're trying to make the steel uniform throughout.
The reason Japanese swordsmiths do the folding and differential hardening has nothing to do with the Katana somehow being better than a Longsword. Its just that the quality of the iron ore they had in Medieval Japan was lower than that of iron ore available in Europe. So, the reason those swordsmithing techniques were developed in Japan, was to make up for the poor quality of the ore. In other words, to produce a Katana of similar performance to a Longsword, you need to do all those extra steps, if using traditional Japanese iron.
Exactly. It seems all these katana superfans that are like "oh it's not authentic, it's not folded" don't seem to realize that a katana made with modern techniques are almost always higher quality than traditionally made katana, mainly due to the material quality but also the methods being more exact
Nah fr they didn’t invent blast furnaces so they got stuck with shit tier steel that had severely inconsistent carbon levels, and people think that that’s an advantage 😂
Yeah, the homogenous steel, differentially hardened katana they had last time practically performs just as well for this reason. Unless if you wanna go for the crazy 7 layer construction katanas, I'd love to put one of those under crazy tests to see if it helps any.
It's still amazing to me how many people don't realize that folded steel was originally a method for dealing with inconsistencies in the quality of the metal. It's used today for aesthetic or skill demonstration purposes and that's fine, but it pretty much always detracts from the functional quality of the blade. Great video guys, keep em coming.
I feel like this may have been a topic already, but in case it hasn't been: A video on how regularly soldiers or knights would switch their blades/swords because of them getting damaged would be cool. Knowing if there were perhaps historical references to certain smiths who were doing especially good or bad work etc.
The interesting thing is that in nearly all cultures, swords were expensive and something kept even after being broken or damaged on the battlefield. They were often reforged into new swords or ground down and reformed into smaller blades. Folks back then weren't as wasteful as we may think they were and recycling was very much a thing for expensive tools/artifacts.
@@Talishar Let's not forget those that stripped bodies on the field if resources were low. They made use of what they could and some would find their way being sold by actual corpse looters scouring battlefields.
Several vids have told us recently that medieval sword consumers were fine with superficial imperfections when sword shopping because they simply didn't expect perfection. They understood that asymmetry and what-not came with the territory. So did they likewise expect chippage/breakage to come with the territory, to the point that they didn't even bother to track which sword marks lasted longer?
The point about how a katana inspires a very specific chopping motion was really interesting to me, because of Japanese culture. For centuries, there was and has been a huge amount of mythologizing around "how" to use a sword. Schools like Shinkageryu or Niten-Ichi, for instance. Very rigid rules for, and definitions of, swordplay. So the katana being hyper-specialized into a specific niche makes sense; it came from a culture that was all about hyper-specializing into a certain niche.
I think it’s been an amazing journey to watch how your team has grown over the past several years and the series of videos you guys have been putting out in the last few months really shows. Shadiversity has always been amazing but you guys have gelled together so well and this content is proof. I can’t wait for your videos every week boys!
When thinking about edge retention, don't forget you have two edges on that longsword. So even IF one of these edges gets dull faster than the Katana's, you flip it around and have a fresh one. Or you just use both edges about the same and distribute the dulling effect.
Joreg Sprave had a very interesting video over on his channel, where he wanted to see if he could make a usable sword out of a bar of structural steel. At the end, he ended up taking it to someone who does make katanas using traditional tahagame steel to learn how he might be able to improve it. At the end of the video, they did some cutting tests with Joreg's 'orc sword' and a katana made with traditional materials and techniques. In the end, the guy said that so long as the blade is sharp, it's more about a person's technique than anything to do with the sword, and to prove it, he did some cutting with a kitchen knife
@@TheDeinonychusfun fact, that isn't true at all. Many swords are made to fit many different areas. Most of the time a katana is made for cutting, while longswords and many European swords were built to cut but mostly crush. Due to medieval armor during that time.
I own all three versions of United Cutlery's Honshu Single Hand Broadsword (actually a bastard sword), the one you have in your video, the one they make in 1065 steel with a brown grip and brown sheath and mirror polish blade, and the Midnight Forge version. And they are some of my absolute favorite swords! For $230, it's difficult to find a better, more durable sword. (Even tho the factory edge sucks and I had to sharpen it myself). I've put them to the test and have really been hard on them, and they hold up very well. That sword is an absolute beast. I'd take that sword into actual battle any day and have complete confidence in it.
I've got to say I didn't have as much time to watch as many of your videos as I would like in the past year but every time I tune in I just end up leaving with a smile while learning something. Love you lads keep up the good work
It was interesting, but please don't take this too seriously The video is clearly a jab against Katana weebs and they are still biased (which is totally ok, it's just like Violin players reviewing a Cello) In the end swords are swords and it's not about "which is better?" but "who is better?"
@@zaekulia exactly. It’s also the question of “better at what” Swords are tools, tools have different jobs, for the most part no one tool is objectively better than another bc they’re all for different things
The broadsword here looks quite like the one Boromir has in the Jackson movies, so it automatically has a leg up in my book. I am also really looking forward to that "other" video, because I really like Kriegsmesser and Falchions.
It was very funny the way Tyranth was looking at the camera quite menacingly. You could see the sponsor coming a mile off, yet it was smooth to transition, and I didn't skip! Everyone else, I skip. That's mostly due to my having no interest in folk's sponsors. But I digress.
The thing I don't remember hearing you mention, is that if you ruin an edge on a longsword, you can just flip it since you have another pristine one still available.
@@mksmike Sadly written medium does not convey jokes that well. I could see how someone would make that statement in absolute seriousness, hence my question.
For a while I forgot I was watching an advert. And the way the katana was used to prepare food somehow seemed perfectly natural. And every time I see Shad's videos, I keep thinking I picked the wrong career..
In the site there is written that katana is t10 stell in the core, and damascus hamon in the edge(that means e nothing) So i dont know, the fact that katana is inferior in this test is the way the test is done , or the material of the katana, or the shape of the katana(?) Personally i think is the material of the katana and the way was heat treated ( a bad temper can cause the katana bend)
@Pietro Pieragnoli That's not that problem I own several live katanas they not designed to take punishment of any type out side of hitting soft targets. They are great slicing weapons but that's where the buck stops. I own 1 that's over 3000 dollars made from Japan really sharp high quality. They are great side arms but they are not really good at hard long combat.
@@pietropieragnoli1346katanas are designed to bend and take the set when swung badly, because thats better than snapping. Taking a set like this one did isn't a failure. Authentic katanas take sets.
I would say the pommel strike is a little bit more effective with an actual pommel, but there are butt strikes with the katana. Yes the katana also has a guard similar to Oachs/Finestra, but they are mainly meant for cuts, at least in the style that i am learning.
Yes, its a well established fact that you can slice up a gunbarrel like a chef chopping a leek. But only if the steel has been folded at least one million times and the swordwielder has sownt at least half his or her life studying the blade.
Really nice videos with all three of you. I hope this is a system that Shad can live with without putting too much strain on himself. I‘m also always happy when seeing the hello fresh advertisements, cause I realize just how genuine this is meant. You are really recommending it! Love them and the brilliant Segways.
I think this is one of the best videos you made. It high lights that some cheaper price swords are pretty good and don't deserver the toxic hate they will receive. I have a few swords like this and I have even tested them, they are pretty strong with the only issues being a not so sharp blade and some cost cutting in the assembly or quality. Either way, good video and I hope to see more videos like this one.
There's been a few too many close calls on this channel lately... I dread the day you have to make the community post saying 'Unfortunately one of the Shadiversity team members has passed away during a shoot for a video'
@@bavariancarenthusiast2722 Or if a blade snaps, or the wind changes and an arrow goes astray, or a wood chip slices someone's lip (one of the hardest parts of the body to repair)... Any number of things outside of their direct control could feasibly happen. Even a proper HEMA helmet/mask would go a long way to help them
A lot of people seem to think that all long swords were extremely springy or completely mono-hardened. A lot were actually made to be stiffer and differentially hardened. It all depends on what kind of sword you are looking at.
Best Hello Fresh ad ever. Like seriously that would be a hit if it played on TV with no context- an otherwise-regular food commercial but the dude's cutting everything with a katana.
I gotta say the hello fresh ads just feel extremely natural when you do them in these sword videos idk why. Mabey cause I watch while I'm cooking usually...
That was a good commercial, I liked the thematic use of the swords. Also, a good video. I am impressed by how well the spring steel holds up against the Katana.
Shad, You really seem to be a lot better since the boys joined the team. I really do hope you ARE feeling better. I love the energy in your recent videos and I love seeing you a bit more relaxed.
I always thought the reason why people keep comparing longsword to katanas (despite, as you mentioned, longsword being not really comparable) is as an extension of the comparison people make between knights and samurai.
if we were to compare a knight would smash a samurai all day long the same way a longsword is better than a katana in durability, techniques you can use, balance of the sword, etc., I think people compare them a lot though because of the "legend" of the katana being something it isn't was spread through the internet and adopted by neckbeards, basically.
@@joaotoe2833 yeah you can compare them, they have the same use and do the same thing. Just because they didnt cross in a battlefield doesn't mean you can't compare them, that is the most fedora-tipping tier argument there is.
I would say they aren't immediately comparable. Katanas were made for a different environment under different circumstances with different resources than a longsword. To be called a good sword it needs to be good in the environment it was meant for. Would the longsword be better for the purposes the katana was used for? Using similar resources? At what point do you separate the technology used to make the sword from the sword itself?
also video idea, in the demon slayer anime one of the character uses a katana that he intentionally chips the blade which appears to cut better in the same way a serrated steak knife does, a video showing the efficacy of such a blade would make an interesting video although will certainly destroy a sword you're choice if you wanna destroy a katana but i'd love to see it
To be fair, the fact Tyranth broke the wood with the katana specifically because of one of the reason it bent. And I don't mean the softer spine and differential hardening. The lack of the ability to flex and return to shape actually transfers more energy as blunt force trauma because it has less give. This is coupled with a single edge design creates a wedge effect. The blade is thicker than some once you get past the edge. The thick it gets the better at splitting rather than chopping it becomes. This means it is less likely to get stuck in the wood too than a thinner blade. The ease of edge alignment would also reduce the bend in the final state compared to some other swords. This also factors into why that strike also knocked it off its brace point. It was the blunt force that transferred into the wood. And this all brings up splitting versus chopping. For example, a felling axe chops deeper but you have to chop further in before a split occurs even when chopping with the grain. But on standing trees you are not trying to split the wood,. You are trying to use the least amount of swings to cut deeper into it. A splitting axe gets wider sooner and pushes any penetrated material apart. It seems like something similar is occurring with the katana. What else splits or cracks. Well bones. In which case, the katana may split bones with less penetration into the bones because of differences in weight distribution and thickness. If armor materials have a tendency to split, the form of the katana and other single edge blades may be more effective while also being alright at chopping.
2:53 This little passby skit was so damn good that myself and my mother, father, sister and brother-in-law collectivly bursted our sides out at how casually they come in with the comparison Shad was talking about, just arguing and walking by, and then how casually Shad gets back on track. Must have replayed that scene at least 4-5 times. That was way too funny! That was very good stuff Shad!
Thing is people often misunderstand why the folded the steel as being they wanted to make a super strong steel, the reality is folded steal is not any stronger than non folded steel, the reason that they folded steal was because of the method they used to make the chunks of steel was not good and it lead to a lot of impurities in the steal and it is very weak and by folding the steal over and over you work those impurities out making the steel stronger, in Europe and other country's the steel making process was far more advanced and produced pretty clean steel that was already strong
Other than the fact that there was an abundance of purer steel (a property of the geography of the West), leading to a series of steel armor and thick weapons, the process wasn’t necessarily more advanced. It’s simply the type of materials they found in the area that led to the difference in historical properties of reach swords of their respective regions.
This is a very entertaining and educational video great work team Shad. Although it does break my heart seeing a beautiful sword get destroyed when I can’t afford a proper one
I train kendo/jaido, etc. I love katanas and their kin. But i predict that for the price you pay for a sword, the 200 buck version will be enough. In other words, a katana is very good at what it's made for, but knowing the japanese mindset, let's just say i don't think the inventor was making a durable, easy to fix sword and instead just maxed out all the other stats. Makes it a beast at cutting flesh, but i can see the guy say: if it breaks, it was the users fault😅. Springsteel longsword? Put a dent in it? Just hammer it out a bit, see? Good to go again. So yeah, i think this one goes to the longsword, hands down in terms of what it offers compared to the price tag
I think the funniest thing about comparing different historical swords is the fact that they were not as common on the battlefield as people would think. In alot of cases, swords were more akin to an heirloom then a weapon of war. Spears and the like were far more common in large scale combat. Not to take away from the video, just a funny thought.
yup. thats because spears were cheeper, easier to make, had longer reach, and most importantly, required FAR less training and skill to be affective with in battle. That latter part is key because what alot of people dont understand is that statistics dont win battles or wars. its logistics. during medieval times, a fully professional trained army was VERY expensive. training was limited. alot of the time, levying farmers and peasants was a much more affective method to fill up ranks. or to quickly train up new soldiers to replace lost ones in the middle of a war. give them a long spear, a shield, then teach them how to shield wall and poke as one and BOOM, you have yourself a solid meat-grinding frontline to hold the enemy while the more elite forces cut down the enemy line or at least attempt to before their elite force tries to do the same. the spear was overall something any untrained person could use to defend themselves or fight others with less danger to themselves. Swords were of course part of their equipment, especially for proper professionally trained soldiers but usually was more or less the backup weapon you resorted to rather than the initiate engagement weapon.
Don't know about you, but the guy in armor plating and holding a halberd covered in blood and has group of bodies behind him isn't going to be scared of the metal pointy stick.
Spears > horses. Horses > swords Swords > spears Spears > horses. In medieval combat, spears were used more commonly because peasants had to deal with knights and other cavalry. Spears are very good for dealing with horses. Makes it easier to get to the guy on the horse. It also has the reach necessary to unmount a person from those horses. From what records and historical information I can find, about 1 out of every 3 males owned a sword.
From a development standpoint, it should be noted that the Katana is an evolution from the Tachi which was a cavalry sword, very similar in form to later era sabers. The "longsword" in this case evolved from an infantry weapon. Can't wait for the Katana Vs Messer. It's a review that's long overdue.
The batting the arrow aside with a sword looks impressive. I saw a youtube vid a while ago where some japanise swordmaker did the same. In reality it's easier to do this than hit a fast bowled cricket ball. Still looks realy cool though
You can actually catch an arrow moving that slow with your hands and plug it out of the air. My 60lbs recurve bow would throw an arrow so fast, it would travel that distance allmost instantly. Some of sheds more powerful warbows probably even more so. You can see he didn't even pull the string back half way to make it move that slow.
Hey Shad! I bought that exact longsword on your recommendation (it's in my pfp lmao) and it's a 4 pound brick of a sword, so I already knew which one was going to win. If there was a sword that could cut through a machine gun barrel, it would have to be that thing.
For anyone interested, as the question came up, just hold a katana like you’re giving it a gentle handshake. Smaller fingers and that part of your palm glued on. The rest of the hand just wrapped out of the way (a quick-guide simplification, but a good guide). Puts your body in a more optimal position and gains you a tiny bit of range too. ( there will be differences in school/region/era/type of practice) Independently of this cool testing btw.
I think something people forget when talking about the Katana being folded is why it was folded. Japan didn't have access to stronger metals so they had to fold it to make it strong enough to be used as a sword. Katanas made of stronger metals don't need to be folded to begin with, so it's not a problem if they aren't folded. Personally I'm more into sabers than longswords or katanas. Small, quick, and precise. Funny enough most sabers have the same blade length as a katana, the katana just has a longer grip since it is meant for 2 hands.
Exactly. Personally, if people in Japan had access to such iron, swords they make and even armor would probably be as good and abundant as they were in medieval Europe. The properties of each respective swords were greatly determined by the amount and properties of steel that were found in each their geographic area. The stiffness of the swords depends on the amount and distribution of carbon found in the steel. More carbon found simply made it stiffer, and because of that, it acts the way we know from standard material science. Good for slashing the way it does, especially through softer things like flesh and bones. But when a brittle thing hits another brittle thing, it can fatally break, just like carbon fiber - stronger when nothing is opposing it, but more energy is applied to it when hitting something hard like wood. Spring steel used in long swords can be equally good at cutting, but it does so in a different way than a katana. So you can say, the Katana has some certain properties that it’s better (or it might not be correct to say “better” but rather unique in only it can pull off) but when those properties all come together for slashing, it achieves its goal of cutting extremely well but not all that different from long sword as a end result. Hence, both achieves the same result through flesh, but in a completely different way, which is why the Katana WILL feel different from cutting with a long sword, but can achieve the same cuts as HEMA enthusiasts like the ones in the video will say. So you can say that the Katana is the best at doing its own thing: cutting the way it does. But achieving the cut can also be done with a long sword itself. In battle, endurance is key for a weapon, hence I’d give the win to the long sword as a more battle oriented weapon. But that’s not to say that being “better” means anything at all. In the end, like I said in the beginning, if Japan had steel off similar properties, they’d probably be in the same position as Europe. Especially since the metallurgic process only got so far across ALL nations back then. It’s nothing like the steel works of today. And keep in mind, since the Katana was more ceremonious and not exactly used as a main battle weapon, there was basically no point in optimizing it that much further than from tradition (as you see that Japan is strong with tradition). Which is why you see a big blow to the practicality of Katanas from the lack of a proper hand guard alone. One of the most vital points to target in a sword fight is your hands and wrists. A hand guard (and pummel too) is practically more useful in almost every way, but it changes the properties of the way you use the sword. So the katana you can still argue is better in some sword techniques, but then when it comes to actual battle, you’ll find that it lacks by a certain amount when it to a no bars combat. So wherever people who LOVE to compare these swords (like the people in the video), you should keep in mind that these swords are the way they are because of the circumstances they were in. If Japan had the iron of the east, you might as well call the “Saber” (or the two handed western sword they mentioned in the video) a Katana - and I know the saber is a one handed sword with a COMPLETELY different fighting style than a dual handed sword (it’s my favorite and in my opinion the best for fighting and I’m Asian myself). But I can’t technically call “Saber” a “Katana” or else I’ll be appropriating an actual weapon from a completely different culture. But the fact that there were weapons with similar features from completely remote cultures show that similar weapons might’ve come out of Japan if they have the same materials and need for them. So don’t feel bad if you are trying to compare cultures, I don’t think that’s what you should do in the first place and this basically gives you reason not to worry. And yes, after all, it does depend on the swordsman, but also the environment/scenario they are in. But don’t make the same mistakes by comparing which culture has better swordsmanship right after. Because it depends on the technology they have too, so don’t feel bad nor there is any reason to compare swordsmanship of historic figures. It would only be fair comparison of techniques and individuals when they are given the same resources - aka a knight with the armor, sword, and training of a samurai and vice versa. So to summarize, at the end of the day, in terms of practicality in battle, I’d give solid edge to the long sword over katana because of its properties and versatility of techniques. However, I just want to make a point that the comparison (although can come to basically a practical conclusion as I have), is kinda pointless, or at least in NO way mean “besting one culture over another. It kinda felt like all these HEMA enthusiasts missed the point of even comparing these weapons in the first place when they try to prove and “debunk” stuff about Katanas. Even the tests and conclusions they gave were even less objective and more flawed in explaining what is “better” than I did in this comment section, and I haven’t even gotten to the really technical parts yet. Altogether, I’m just “debunking” that there is any realistic reason to “fairly” compare these swords or swordsmanship other than the fact that it is fun for people. And once they are compared, make sure you all realize that it means no offense to your culture in anyway or putting you down since it’s all based on scenario. Because, all it takes is for you to have the right resources and reason to improve achieve the same goal (which in this case the same practicality between a Katana and long sword). That’s why I think it’s simply best to respect each others cultures for what they are at the end of the day instead of comparing what is “better” because it’s circumstantial. Like, you’re comparing a sword used in ceremonious occasions (executions or policing average peasants) or duals based solely on swordsmanship with leather armor or a lack of any against swords that are made to last even against metal armor. Yes, even long swords can be used for armor less duals, but that’s where the “fair” comparison should end. Not chopping a thin, very traditionally respected, brittle Katana against hard wood or metal armor. It’s simply not what it’s made for and simply never cared to be improved way beyond that - as I mentioned earlier - because the Japanese called the warriors pride and swordsmanship than just changing the katana every iteration (also disrespecting tradition). Keep in mind that a good majority of the population were peasants and farmers, and had chain sickles as a weapon. So weapons didn’t need to be improved to the point where they left tradition, but rather you as an individual has to improve the “almighty” weapon granted to you as an honored samurai. Respect and good sportsmanship was so high amongst the high profile samurai that the honorable thing to do if you lose the battle is to “commit-“ you know what. So all I’m saying is to respect each weapons culture and history instead of comparing oranges to tangerines. But if you want an objective test of practicality in a fight between a historically accurate long sword vs katana, I’d give the win to the long sword 🤷♂️
@aaronyu2660 I completely understand that the katana isn't really comparable due to the very different circumstances and purpose of the weapon. I was simply pointing out how many who hear "folded 1000 times" and assume it's far stronger (even tho in reality, if we did that to more durable metals, it would just make them brittle). A good example is how the Soviets heat treated their metal to make it stronger for their tanks. The problem is they did it way too much and actually made the armor easier to crack. At the end of the day, as you said, you can't really compare a katana to European swords in terms of purpose, or say "my sword could snap yours in 2", the katana is a traditional weapon, not a weapon specifically made for war, hence why it was a last resort, whereas most European swords were made with war in mind rather than tradition. It is fun to watch sparring matches between katanas and sabers, and the contrast between the 2 styles makes for a unique fight.
@@lonewolf0712 no I get it, but by now, the HEMA ppl and others have debunked it sooo many times by now that even that should be common knowledge by now. But otherwise, almost no complaints with what you said. Just with the attitude of the people in the video, not to mention this topic has been mentioned so many times years ago, yet just ONE single year ago, this video popped up in an age where this should long be debunked by now.
The beauty of the Katana isn't that it is some special amazing sword among swords. The beauty of a Katana is the craftsmanship to turn garbage like tamahagani into a beautiful and effective weapon that can even be compared to other weapons made with vastly superior ore. Not to put down the craftsmanship of Western smith's and their abilities, they are equally as amazing. I just wish people would stop with the whole "katana is God's gift to swords" nonsense.
A lot of Samurai would use a slightly blunted katana when going into battle because it would chip less when making contact with other swords and or armor, thrusting into the niches of the armor was more than enough to kill.
I think the main problem in comparing an expensive katana to a modestly priced longsword is not that the katana would not be good enough, but that the longsword is too good. The mythos that has been created around the katana means that the most expensive ones are specifically made with an inferior method because that's traditional and what the prestige of katana is all about. In turn, there is no such tradition hampering the quality of most other swords, so any proper longsword, even a fairly cheap one, will be made of good modern spring steel because it's fairly accessible and the cost difference between it and some lower quality steel would be fairly meaningless. While there certainly was very good quality spring steel at best in the medieval Europe, I'm not sure how it would hold up to just a standard moder spring steel. In short, there is no reason to use steel of historical quality for a longsword, but there is for a katana. So I don't think we can realiably compare the two, in a stress test at least. Though the best medieval European spring steel would probably still have the edge over the best feudal Japanese folded and differentially hardened steel.
There is no point in using traditional steel in a katana. If I was a soldier at war, I’d rather have a blade that will kill the enemy, not one that’s fancy and “traditional”.
@@Cybetrexs yes, there is no point in it if you want a sword that you'd actually use. But let's be honest, they are just vanity items 99.9% of the time, and in that respect the prestige (and looks) of a traditional method matters even if it's actually just inferior.
First off it looks like it actually got through the wood right the longsword didn't do that second honestly I get that it lost but people have been saying a lot of bad things about katanas and this restored my faith in them, I'm really impressed that it did so well against a much wider blade
They should have used a new piece of wood for each sword. Remember that they struck the wood first several times with the broadsword then went after it with the katana and then it broke on the last cut. That old, weather beaten board would have broke the same way if they had hit it the same amount of times with a piece of rebar.
Do the weeks not understand the reason Japanese swords are folded steel is because the steel sucks in Japan, they needed to take out the impurities in it and the more you work it the more trash comes out in the scale
The problem is they keep reading that the folded steel katanas are god-like weapons that cut through other swords, what they fail to realize from such historic sources is that those katanas are cutting through other more trashy metal katanas that were not folded to remove impurities because they dont contextualize the information they read
That has to do with the forging process of the steel itself the you didn't do your research, once they've gone through the forging process the steel would actually be extremely high quality referred to as jewel steel so they could of made the sword look however they watched they just chose an objective worse design
@@The_MEMEphis if the steel can be refined to be good then the Japanese wouldn't have relied of importing steel to manufacture arms later. Did they improve it yes but it's not as good as people think especially compared to modern steels
It only makes sense for the Katana to leave more damage on the wood than the longsword though... Spring Steel allows part of the energy to escape in the wobble (yes, very scientific terms), whereas with the rigid katana the energy only has 2 places to go, into the blade or into the wood.
When it comes to price, I find the more mid-priced things to be the best. Over a certain dollars amount, you are rolling with the impression that more expensive equals better, which is not the case. Sometimes the price is just over inflated to take advantage of people. Mid-priced things tend to be of great quality while being honest or even humble about the actual worth of the thing.
“The difference between screwing around and science is writing it down.”
― Adam Savage
"We are professionals, because we get paid to do this." - Laurrey, Hydraulic Press Channel
"Science is sort of a long, passive aggressive argument about everything"
-Ze Frank
"That's what."
-- She
@@hotcoffee5542
This is a masterful comment.
@@JoseRodriguez-eu5ez if only i were its originator, alas, i only copy what others have done before me...
gotta say, the new Shadi-Trio format really holds up so far AND it helps out Shad since he's been carrying the channel quasi-solo for so long.
It helps that Shad picked such great guys to do it with. It's so important to have quality people. And the three of them work so well together.
I kinda hoped it would spawn more essay type videos, like the fantasy rearmed stuff, but this content overall is still fun.
For real, i used to watch shad sometimes during the years. Now with the trio im looking forward every episode. The dynamic between 3 of them is insane
I agree, I'm loving the trio
The question is: Who is Caesar, who is Crassus, and who is Pompey?
Myth Busters may be over, but the spirit of it definitely lived on here with you guys!
Facts. I wish they'd hire Kari Byron to prance around swinging swords with that tight little body of hers.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks so.
@@andyappleton3353 Go to horny jail, NOW
@@andyappleton3353 tight mmmhmmm indeed thicc
@@andyappleton3353 Bruh wtf
I love how there are a ton of people saying they should have procured a more expensive katana, but no one is saying the long sword should have costed the same to make the test fair
Weebs do the same thing with guns. The nambu pistols and arisaka rifles were cheap surplus like everything else at the end of WW2, then weebs came around and gave them mythical status before ammo for them was obtainable and ballistics tests could be done
@@Sunflowercowboythe arisaka was pretty similar to the mosin nagant, right ?
@@mahmoudabduladeez7362 in that it's a bolt action rifle with a bore roughly 6mm-8mm firing a full power rifle cartridge, yes. You could equate the rifles of the day to modern semi auto service pistols as to how similar they were to each other
@@Sunflowercowboy actually FYI western experts find nambu and browning to be comparable in ingenuity, quality and reliability they don't compare any other gunsmiths to browning that I am aware of not really sure what you are talking about but whatever
@Z.O.M.G what you and this channel don't understand is that a katana is a FENCING weapon meaning that it was designed for agility and speed so that it could make fast strikes with surgical precision it is not the Japanese version of a two handed broadsword that you handle like some berserker swinging for the fences to make a really fair comparison to a katana with its euro counterpart this test should have been made with something like a light rapier that is not made from modern spring steel but made in the actual types of steel common to Europe also the presenters of this video kept buzzwording "1,000 dollar katana" like that was the top of the line shizzleforizzle but the fact is that not all katana are created equal just like euro swords for example the ulfbert was an exceptional blade with fantastic properties meant to be carried by a king other viking swords were simply not as good well Japan is not too different yes there are some katana that were made for lesser bushi foot soldiers and some worthy of the shogun with fantastic properties that you could not even look at or buy for less than $500,000 US dollars this whole argument is stupid because it is based on the assumption that all steel in Japan is crap when the fact is that there is good steel AND crap steel in Japan just like europe and every other place in the world this argument is just like this channel coming from infantile and petty mentalities
Shad and crew, loving the trio format! Been a fan for a very long time. I have something rather inexpensive I think you guys would be perfect to test. Post apocalypse on the horizon, we NEED to know the efficacy of Tire Armor. Love you guys. Keep up the stellar work!
100% want to see tire armor tested. Make this happen please!
@@KingOfAquilonia In the whip testing video they slapped Boromir around and he was wearing tire armor so dreams do come true!
One seriously cannot explain just how much abuse they put that bastard sword through before this, and it's a held up perfectly fine, even until now. So yeah.
Ty for the heart!
Yeah, that sword has been around in his videos for quite a while, and it has seen A LOT of abuse.
It's amazing how well the blade is holding up after all of this
@@RoulicisThe that's good quality for you
@@Am_Cookie2436 that's modern metallurgy for you.
I've actually been dreaming of commissioning a sword from the very best steel you can get, with high hardness AND flexibility (called trip steel, if you want to look it up).
@Keiranful mhm. Goodluck on your commission there! And ty for the info, I'll definitely look it up
katanas very easily reach that point where you are paying for traditional craftsmanship rather than durability or quality anymore. the difference will be even more pronounced when you consider traditional craftsmanship is basically replicating the historical process of making good enough steel given lack of good raw materials. Modern springsteel is going to be more durable in almost every way. One thing I would be curious about is how good historical medieval spring steel was. Surely we have a range from really good to really bad, but I suspect their definition of really good probably didn't reach modern industrial levels. I don't know how easy it is to obtain a longsword made from historical raw materials, but it would be interesting to compare historical and modern longswords.
A good idea. It is noted that the poorer ends of swords were really genuinely crappy steel. Some historical examples are equivalent to only 1025 steel, which is barely high-carbon. They do all tend to show evidence of a monohardening process. Higher end examples have actually shown to be very comparable to 1065, 1075, and some modern spring steels. The later the sword was made tends to increase the quality of the steel. Rapiers were only possible with good steel. The Renaissance and Late Medieval periods saw good swords being made with plenty good steel.
well, there is that video of a german sword smith Stefan Roth, who is well-known in both, historical japanese forging and medieval european forging and learned both traditional fighting styles.I seem to remember he made all the swords they tested himself.
Wootz steel (which isn't even European but it's the best pre modern steel, so expect worse) is the closest and even it's not better than the best modern spring steels while costing it's weight in silver.
So even the best historic swords would definitely be at best on par with modern processes but not identical (Wootz steel depended on the impurities in it's source for some properties)
Modern steel is vastly superior.
Higher tensile strength, considerably more impact resistance and way fewer impurities.
The historical method is cheap steel. Even if it costs more to make.
I have owned and made weapons using historical methods, just as I have made and owned weapons made using modern methods. And some in between.
Modern steel is just so much superior in terms of quality and lack of impurities. You're better off comparing historical steel to wood, and not modern refined steel. Hell, modern nickle and aluminum are better than medieval steel!
@@spicketspaghet7773 steel that still contains 10% or higher impurities.
In Williamsburg there is a great little blacksmith shop. They make weapons using colonial age processes, the steel that is produced using colonial techniques is nowhere near as good as any steel made using the Bessemer Process. Or modern variations of.
Open Hearth smelting is nowhere near as good as Basic Oxygen or Electric Arc processes.
it was really satisfying to look at the pool noodle cutting when the swords were re-sharpened
Shad is over here calling it cheap vs. expensive while I'm over here seeing expensive vs. even more expensive.
Expensive vs my kidney.
@@tapurate638 my kidney vs my mortgage
I was always amused when (somebody I know) would hear that a blade had over 1000 layers, he would say "it was folded over 1000 times".
"No", I would say, "it was folded 10 times"
Each fold doubles the layers. 1=(2), 2=(4), 3=(8), 4=(16), 5=(32), 6=(64), 7=(128), 8=(256), 9=(512), 10(1024)
At some point the layers become thinner than the iron atoms that make up the steel. Which is kind of the point if you're trying to make the steel uniform throughout.
@@BogeyTheBear yea, it's called graphene. And that is less than 20 years old.
@@nobodyshome6792 No. It's called "mixing something completely up" and it's been around since forever.
@@BogeyTheBear without carbon, iron isn't steel.
Think about that for a while.
@@nobodyshome6792 Think about this: Fold something enough times, it no longer has any layers.
The reason Japanese swordsmiths do the folding and differential hardening has nothing to do with the Katana somehow being better than a Longsword. Its just that the quality of the iron ore they had in Medieval Japan was lower than that of iron ore available in Europe. So, the reason those swordsmithing techniques were developed in Japan, was to make up for the poor quality of the ore. In other words, to produce a Katana of similar performance to a Longsword, you need to do all those extra steps, if using traditional Japanese iron.
Exactly. It seems all these katana superfans that are like "oh it's not authentic, it's not folded" don't seem to realize that a katana made with modern techniques are almost always higher quality than traditionally made katana, mainly due to the material quality but also the methods being more exact
Nah fr they didn’t invent blast furnaces so they got stuck with shit tier steel that had severely inconsistent carbon levels, and people think that that’s an advantage 😂
Yeah, the homogenous steel, differentially hardened katana they had last time practically performs just as well for this reason.
Unless if you wanna go for the crazy 7 layer construction katanas, I'd love to put one of those under crazy tests to see if it helps any.
As a Japanese man the level of misconception some people have about the Katana is frustratingly confusing
To be fair, folding is not something unique and was used in europe since 800 BC, west asia since 1300 BC
It's still amazing to me how many people don't realize that folded steel was originally a method for dealing with inconsistencies in the quality of the metal. It's used today for aesthetic or skill demonstration purposes and that's fine, but it pretty much always detracts from the functional quality of the blade.
Great video guys, keep em coming.
yea or for that damascus pattern by combining two alloys and folding
I feel like this may have been a topic already, but in case it hasn't been: A video on how regularly soldiers or knights would switch their blades/swords because of them getting damaged would be cool. Knowing if there were perhaps historical references to certain smiths who were doing especially good or bad work etc.
This has always popped up in the back of my mind when thinking about medieval warfare.
The interesting thing is that in nearly all cultures, swords were expensive and something kept even after being broken or damaged on the battlefield. They were often reforged into new swords or ground down and reformed into smaller blades. Folks back then weren't as wasteful as we may think they were and recycling was very much a thing for expensive tools/artifacts.
@@Talishar Let's not forget those that stripped bodies on the field if resources were low. They made use of what they could and some would find their way being sold by actual corpse looters scouring battlefields.
@@blumiu2426 Yeah, corpse with armor and weapon intact is exception.
Several vids have told us recently that medieval sword consumers were fine with superficial imperfections when sword shopping because they simply didn't expect perfection. They understood that asymmetry and what-not came with the territory.
So did they likewise expect chippage/breakage to come with the territory, to the point that they didn't even bother to track which sword marks lasted longer?
The point about how a katana inspires a very specific chopping motion was really interesting to me, because of Japanese culture. For centuries, there was and has been a huge amount of mythologizing around "how" to use a sword. Schools like Shinkageryu or Niten-Ichi, for instance. Very rigid rules for, and definitions of, swordplay. So the katana being hyper-specialized into a specific niche makes sense; it came from a culture that was all about hyper-specializing into a certain niche.
the tech to overcome piss poor iron in sword making means the japanese blades were not blunt instruments like a lot of European blades
Probably backwards association - it was the material reality behind the katana that produced a culture of specificity around swordplay.
@@toomanyaccounts European swords aren't blunt either, pal.
@@SergeantSniper learn what the term blunt instrument means. it isn't literal
@@toomanyaccounts It is literal, and you're the one that should learn what the term blunt instrument means. Sheesh
I think it’s been an amazing journey to watch how your team has grown over the past several years and the series of videos you guys have been putting out in the last few months really shows. Shadiversity has always been amazing but you guys have gelled together so well and this content is proof. I can’t wait for your videos every week boys!
You know they will try to break the swords when Tyrant (edit:Tyranth) reaches for the bastard sword instead of katana.
Yep.
His stage name is Tyranth, with a th
@@ObjectiveZoomer sorry, thank you for correction
When thinking about edge retention, don't forget you have two edges on that longsword. So even IF one of these edges gets dull faster than the Katana's, you flip it around and have a fresh one. Or you just use both edges about the same and distribute the dulling effect.
Edge retention 🥴🥴🥴
I swear, every video keeps getting better and better! Thanks for being informative and entertaining.
Can't wait for sequel where Shad is even fairer and tests Katana against a kitchen knife
Joreg Sprave had a very interesting video over on his channel, where he wanted to see if he could make a usable sword out of a bar of structural steel. At the end, he ended up taking it to someone who does make katanas using traditional tahagame steel to learn how he might be able to improve it. At the end of the video, they did some cutting tests with Joreg's 'orc sword' and a katana made with traditional materials and techniques. In the end, the guy said that so long as the blade is sharp, it's more about a person's technique than anything to do with the sword, and to prove it, he did some cutting with a kitchen knife
A Nikkei knife?
@@TheDeinonychusfun fact, that isn't true at all. Many swords are made to fit many different areas. Most of the time a katana is made for cutting, while longswords and many European swords were built to cut but mostly crush. Due to medieval armor during that time.
@@catosicarius3027"Mostly Crush" 🤡
@@catosicarius3027that's not how a longsword defeats armor bro, not even close
Thanks!
I own all three versions of United Cutlery's Honshu Single Hand Broadsword (actually a bastard sword), the one you have in your video, the one they make in 1065 steel with a brown grip and brown sheath and mirror polish blade, and the Midnight Forge version. And they are some of my absolute favorite swords! For $230, it's difficult to find a better, more durable sword. (Even tho the factory edge sucks and I had to sharpen it myself). I've put them to the test and have really been hard on them, and they hold up very well. That sword is an absolute beast. I'd take that sword into actual battle any day and have complete confidence in it.
Actually it is not bastard sword it is broad bastard sword
@@tekken.universal2343 I don't get too nitpicky with the terminology. Shad also refers to it as a "bastard sword" . It not all that serious.
@@mattjack3983 i am just joking
Do all three have the same weight? Just was wondering since I saw some reviews of the brown grip one feeling heavy in the hand.
Nah...I would just use a gun
I've got to say I didn't have as much time to watch as many of your videos as I would like in the past year but every time I tune in I just end up leaving with a smile while learning something. Love you lads keep up the good work
I am about as sword literate as a possum but I found this video very interesting as a fan of samurai movies. Good work guys.
It was interesting, but please don't take this too seriously
The video is clearly a jab against Katana weebs and they are still biased (which is totally ok, it's just like Violin players reviewing a Cello)
In the end swords are swords and it's not about "which is better?" but "who is better?"
@@zaekulia exactly. It’s also the question of “better at what”
Swords are tools, tools have different jobs, for the most part no one tool is objectively better than another bc they’re all for different things
Don't underestimate the swordmanship of possums though...
@@zwenkwiel816 that’s what I’m saying! Like he just straight up insulted the possum kingdom and I wouldn’t be that brave.
I think you underestimate the capabilities of a possum.
Honestly these more technical or analytical videos you guys have been doing have just kept me hooked start to finish. Good work guys!
The broadsword here looks quite like the one Boromir has in the Jackson movies, so it automatically has a leg up in my book. I am also really looking forward to that "other" video, because I really like Kriegsmesser and Falchions.
that hello fresh transition was soooo smooth
They get a sponsor and a good lunch while they are shooting videos. It's perfect.
It was very funny the way Tyranth was looking at the camera quite menacingly. You could see the sponsor coming a mile off, yet it was smooth to transition, and I didn't skip! Everyone else, I skip. That's mostly due to my having no interest in folk's sponsors. But I digress.
Same, even though I know the sponsor is coming, I don't skip them on Shadiversity videos.
God, I'd love to spend a day with these guys
Wouldn't we all.
Just a day?
I’d love to buy a castle and be a neighbor… but I’m in Texas and there are certain possessions I can’t give up to move.
Same. Same.
Amazing how difficult it is to find just a few people with a similar interest such as this isn't it?
The thing I don't remember hearing you mention, is that if you ruin an edge on a longsword, you can just flip it since you have another pristine one still available.
"Don't worry, I struck him with the back of the blade... oops."
@@mksmike You really believe, that this anime strategy was in use by real swordsmen?
@@raifthemad It's a joke and I don't have an opinion on that.
But even if the swordsman tried the impact alone can break the person's bones.
@@mksmike Sadly written medium does not convey jokes that well. I could see how someone would make that statement in absolute seriousness, hence my question.
@@raifthemad Oh come on. Even if that was an actual thing there's no way the user wouldn't see the longsword has an edge on each side.
You guys really have turned into Renaissance Fair Mythbusters. I like it.
For a while I forgot I was watching an advert.
And the way the katana was used to prepare food somehow seemed perfectly natural.
And every time I see Shad's videos, I keep thinking I picked the wrong career..
It would be fun to have a chat about the nuances of sword testing.
Yea, i mean , when they bend the katana the edge allinement was off
Would certainly appreciate this type of collaboration
In the site there is written that katana is t10 stell in the core, and damascus hamon in the edge(that means e nothing)
So i dont know, the fact that katana is inferior in this test is the way the test is done , or the material of the katana, or the shape of the katana(?)
Personally i think is the material of the katana and the way was heat treated ( a bad temper can cause the katana bend)
@Pietro Pieragnoli That's not that problem I own several live katanas they not designed to take punishment of any type out side of hitting soft targets.
They are great slicing weapons but that's where the buck stops.
I own 1 that's over 3000 dollars made from Japan really sharp high quality. They are great side arms but they are not really good at hard long combat.
@@pietropieragnoli1346katanas are designed to bend and take the set when swung badly, because thats better than snapping.
Taking a set like this one did isn't a failure. Authentic katanas take sets.
I would say the pommel strike is a little bit more effective with an actual pommel, but there are butt strikes with the katana. Yes the katana also has a guard similar to Oachs/Finestra, but they are mainly meant for cuts, at least in the style that i am learning.
According to the documentary game „Metal Gear Rising:Revengeance“, Katanas can easily cut trough a tank
Character is also a neigh immortal cyborg samurai
Yes, its a well established fact that you can slice up a gunbarrel like a chef chopping a leek. But only if the steel has been folded at least one million times and the swordwielder has sownt at least half his or her life studying the blade.
@ also the cut has to happen so fast you only see the blade getting moved slightly in the sheath
You guys cutting the food with the swords was great lol. What a creative way to make the sponsor relavent
Really nice videos with all three of you. I hope this is a system that Shad can live with without putting too much strain on himself. I‘m also always happy when seeing the hello fresh advertisements, cause I realize just how genuine this is meant. You are really recommending it! Love them and the brilliant Segways.
I think this is one of the best videos you made. It high lights that some cheaper price swords are pretty good and don't deserver the toxic hate they will receive. I have a few swords like this and I have even tested them, they are pretty strong with the only issues being a not so sharp blade and some cost cutting in the assembly or quality. Either way, good video and I hope to see more videos like this one.
I know you guys are professionals... But accidents can happen to anyone! Please, be careful and armour up!
There's been a few too many close calls on this channel lately... I dread the day you have to make the community post saying 'Unfortunately one of the Shadiversity team members has passed away during a shoot for a video'
"Professionals"
I always shiver that somebody grips on the blade and loses his finger - but well they know what they are doing
@@raven1728 Professional as opposed to amateur only means that you make money doing what ever it is your doing. So yes they qualify.
@@bavariancarenthusiast2722 Or if a blade snaps, or the wind changes and an arrow goes astray, or a wood chip slices someone's lip (one of the hardest parts of the body to repair)... Any number of things outside of their direct control could feasibly happen. Even a proper HEMA helmet/mask would go a long way to help them
A lot of people seem to think that all long swords were extremely springy or completely mono-hardened. A lot were actually made to be stiffer and differentially hardened. It all depends on what kind of sword you are looking at.
Best Hello Fresh ad ever. Like seriously that would be a hit if it played on TV with no context- an otherwise-regular food commercial but the dude's cutting everything with a katana.
I gotta say the hello fresh ads just feel extremely natural when you do them in these sword videos idk why. Mabey cause I watch while I'm cooking usually...
This was an amazing video. The narration was fun, and the content engaging. I love what I'm seeing here.
I love u guys, been getting really into the history an use of swords and u guys give me so much content useful to my search for knowledge
I Love katana"s Okay guys !! I know it dosnt seem like it lately...
You can only truly love something if you can accept their weak points along with the strong ones. And you truly love the katana.
Always up for some good old fantasy Mythbusters! Love it! Great work, guys!
That was a good commercial, I liked the thematic use of the swords.
Also, a good video. I am impressed by how well the spring steel holds up against the Katana.
Okay that intro was awesome!
I think wearing an 8” laced up (combat style) boot would greatly improve footwork and help ankle support. Love you guys, keep up the good work.
that chiken with veggies looked reeeeally good omg
Shad, You really seem to be a lot better since the boys joined the team. I really do hope you ARE feeling better. I love the energy in your recent videos and I love seeing you a bit more relaxed.
Hi guys, have you altered the grip on your honshu broadsword at all? I'm looking at getting one but online the grip seems different. Thanks.
I always thought the reason why people keep comparing longsword to katanas (despite, as you mentioned, longsword being not really comparable) is as an extension of the comparison people make between knights and samurai.
which again, is not really comparable
if we were to compare a knight would smash a samurai all day long
the same way a longsword is better than a katana in durability, techniques you can use, balance of the sword, etc.,
I think people compare them a lot though because of the "legend" of the katana being something it isn't was spread through the internet and adopted by neckbeards, basically.
It's just comparing two weapons
@@joaotoe2833 yeah you can compare them, they have the same use and do the same thing. Just because they didnt cross in a battlefield doesn't mean you can't compare them, that is the most fedora-tipping tier argument there is.
I would say they aren't immediately comparable. Katanas were made for a different environment under different circumstances with different resources than a longsword. To be called a good sword it needs to be good in the environment it was meant for. Would the longsword be better for the purposes the katana was used for? Using similar resources? At what point do you separate the technology used to make the sword from the sword itself?
also video idea, in the demon slayer anime one of the character uses a katana that he intentionally chips the blade which appears to cut better in the same way a serrated steak knife does, a video showing the efficacy of such a blade would make an interesting video although will certainly destroy a sword
you're choice if you wanna destroy a katana but i'd love to see it
To be fair, the fact Tyranth broke the wood with the katana specifically because of one of the reason it bent. And I don't mean the softer spine and differential hardening. The lack of the ability to flex and return to shape actually transfers more energy as blunt force trauma because it has less give. This is coupled with a single edge design creates a wedge effect. The blade is thicker than some once you get past the edge. The thick it gets the better at splitting rather than chopping it becomes. This means it is less likely to get stuck in the wood too than a thinner blade. The ease of edge alignment would also reduce the bend in the final state compared to some other swords. This also factors into why that strike also knocked it off its brace point. It was the blunt force that transferred into the wood. And this all brings up splitting versus chopping. For example, a felling axe chops deeper but you have to chop further in before a split occurs even when chopping with the grain. But on standing trees you are not trying to split the wood,. You are trying to use the least amount of swings to cut deeper into it. A splitting axe gets wider sooner and pushes any penetrated material apart. It seems like something similar is occurring with the katana. What else splits or cracks. Well bones. In which case, the katana may split bones with less penetration into the bones because of differences in weight distribution and thickness. If armor materials have a tendency to split, the form of the katana and other single edge blades may be more effective while also being alright at chopping.
it was all good and dandy until the "what else... well...". Very forced
Love the format, you guys!
2:53
This little passby skit was so damn good that myself and my mother, father, sister and brother-in-law collectivly bursted our sides out at how casually they come in with the comparison Shad was talking about, just arguing and walking by, and then how casually Shad gets back on track. Must have replayed that scene at least 4-5 times. That was way too funny!
That was very good stuff Shad!
8:20 I know its sponsorship but cooking with Katana is a worthy video challenge on its own
nah. Wakizashi.
Sounds a lot like fruit ninja.
Thing is people often misunderstand why the folded the steel as being they wanted to make a super strong steel, the reality is folded steal is not any stronger than non folded steel, the reason that they folded steal was because of the method they used to make the chunks of steel was not good and it lead to a lot of impurities in the steal and it is very weak and by folding the steal over and over you work those impurities out making the steel stronger, in Europe and other country's the steel making process was far more advanced and produced pretty clean steel that was already strong
I'm pretty sure that is what he said at the beginning of the video.
Other than the fact that there was an abundance of purer steel (a property of the geography of the West), leading to a series of steel armor and thick weapons, the process wasn’t necessarily more advanced. It’s simply the type of materials they found in the area that led to the difference in historical properties of reach swords of their respective regions.
This is a very entertaining and educational video great work team Shad. Although it does break my heart seeing a beautiful sword get destroyed when I can’t afford a proper one
Always love seeing your videos and showing my little brother; he likes the cutting part but i hope he learns some things too.
Out of all the hello fresh videos on youtube yours is the first one that made me actually want to try it. I loved it.
I train kendo/jaido, etc. I love katanas and their kin. But i predict that for the price you pay for a sword, the 200 buck version will be enough.
In other words, a katana is very good at what it's made for, but knowing the japanese mindset, let's just say i don't think the inventor was making a durable, easy to fix sword and instead just maxed out all the other stats. Makes it a beast at cutting flesh, but i can see the guy say: if it breaks, it was the users fault😅.
Springsteel longsword? Put a dent in it? Just hammer it out a bit, see? Good to go again.
So yeah, i think this one goes to the longsword, hands down in terms of what it offers compared to the price tag
08:00 This is the first time I haven't skipped an ad on YT. Congrats guys.
I think the funniest thing about comparing different historical swords is the fact that they were not as common on the battlefield as people would think. In alot of cases, swords were more akin to an heirloom then a weapon of war. Spears and the like were far more common in large scale combat. Not to take away from the video, just a funny thought.
yup. thats because spears were cheeper, easier to make, had longer reach, and most importantly, required FAR less training and skill to be affective with in battle. That latter part is key because what alot of people dont understand is that statistics dont win battles or wars. its logistics. during medieval times, a fully professional trained army was VERY expensive. training was limited. alot of the time, levying farmers and peasants was a much more affective method to fill up ranks. or to quickly train up new soldiers to replace lost ones in the middle of a war. give them a long spear, a shield, then teach them how to shield wall and poke as one and BOOM, you have yourself a solid meat-grinding frontline to hold the enemy while the more elite forces cut down the enemy line or at least attempt to before their elite force tries to do the same. the spear was overall something any untrained person could use to defend themselves or fight others with less danger to themselves. Swords were of course part of their equipment, especially for proper professionally trained soldiers but usually was more or less the backup weapon you resorted to rather than the initiate engagement weapon.
Don't know about you, but the guy in armor plating and holding a halberd covered in blood and has group of bodies behind him isn't going to be scared of the metal pointy stick.
@@dalekmasterblaster585 lmao, nope. he definitely wouldnt xD.
@@dalekmasterblaster585 nope what he gears is another guy in armor with a big metal mace haha
Spears > horses.
Horses > swords
Swords > spears
Spears > horses.
In medieval combat, spears were used more commonly because peasants had to deal with knights and other cavalry. Spears are very good for dealing with horses. Makes it easier to get to the guy on the horse. It also has the reach necessary to unmount a person from those horses.
From what records and historical information I can find, about 1 out of every 3 males owned a sword.
The starting production is great on this video! Great direction!
On Mythbusters, Grant would build a robot to make strikes strong enough to break things and bend test objects.
On Shadiversity, we have 1 man
From a development standpoint, it should be noted that the Katana is an evolution from the Tachi which was a cavalry sword, very similar in form to later era sabers.
The "longsword" in this case evolved from an infantry weapon.
Can't wait for the Katana Vs Messer. It's a review that's long overdue.
the trio really does add a lot to the channel.
That intro might be one of the coolest things I've ever seen
Possibly the only channel I watch where I see the sponsorship coming and I smile
When they're going over the tests it always looks like Tyranth is mad that the katana isn't performing better lol
The batting the arrow aside with a sword looks impressive. I saw a youtube vid a while ago where some japanise swordmaker did the same.
In reality it's easier to do this than hit a fast bowled cricket ball.
Still looks realy cool though
wow, that "professional" arrow cutting at the beginning looks professional no joke😎
p.s. great video!
You can actually catch an arrow moving that slow with your hands and plug it out of the air. My 60lbs recurve bow would throw an arrow so fast, it would travel that distance allmost instantly. Some of sheds more powerful warbows probably even more so. You can see he didn't even pull the string back half way to make it move that slow.
I love the anduril replica among the longswords. such a cool design
I really liked this format as well as the video!
Hey Shad!
I bought that exact longsword on your recommendation (it's in my pfp lmao) and it's a 4 pound brick of a sword, so I already knew which one was going to win. If there was a sword that could cut through a machine gun barrel, it would have to be that thing.
i love how shad hands them swords like santa clause man that was wholesome
that gambison is fire!
Foam is weirdly tough on blades...
7:57 one of the smoothest segways in history
For anyone interested, as the question came up, just hold a katana like you’re giving it a gentle handshake. Smaller fingers and that part of your palm glued on. The rest of the hand just wrapped out of the way (a quick-guide simplification, but a good guide). Puts your body in a more optimal position and gains you a tiny bit of range too. ( there will be differences in school/region/era/type of practice) Independently of this cool testing btw.
The katana is so shiny that in most scenes it looks green because it's reflecting the grass. That's pretty neat
Why are all the people who are die hard shills for the katana not even Japanese? Like, why the hell do you care?
I think something people forget when talking about the Katana being folded is why it was folded. Japan didn't have access to stronger metals so they had to fold it to make it strong enough to be used as a sword. Katanas made of stronger metals don't need to be folded to begin with, so it's not a problem if they aren't folded. Personally I'm more into sabers than longswords or katanas. Small, quick, and precise. Funny enough most sabers have the same blade length as a katana, the katana just has a longer grip since it is meant for 2 hands.
日本刀も馬上で使う為に進化してきた経緯があるから、用途としては本来サーベルに近い。
厳密には太刀と打刀で違う用途だけど、打刀は太刀からの派生だしね。
Exactly. Personally, if people in Japan had access to such iron, swords they make and even armor would probably be as good and abundant as they were in medieval Europe. The properties of each respective swords were greatly determined by the amount and properties of steel that were found in each their geographic area. The stiffness of the swords depends on the amount and distribution of carbon found in the steel. More carbon found simply made it stiffer, and because of that, it acts the way we know from standard material science. Good for slashing the way it does, especially through softer things like flesh and bones. But when a brittle thing hits another brittle thing, it can fatally break, just like carbon fiber - stronger when nothing is opposing it, but more energy is applied to it when hitting something hard like wood. Spring steel used in long swords can be equally good at cutting, but it does so in a different way than a katana. So you can say, the Katana has some certain properties that it’s better (or it might not be correct to say “better” but rather unique in only it can pull off) but when those properties all come together for slashing, it achieves its goal of cutting extremely well but not all that different from long sword as a end result. Hence, both achieves the same result through flesh, but in a completely different way, which is why the Katana WILL feel different from cutting with a long sword, but can achieve the same cuts as HEMA enthusiasts like the ones in the video will say. So you can say that the Katana is the best at doing its own thing: cutting the way it does. But achieving the cut can also be done with a long sword itself. In battle, endurance is key for a weapon, hence I’d give the win to the long sword as a more battle oriented weapon. But that’s not to say that being “better” means anything at all. In the end, like I said in the beginning, if Japan had steel off similar properties, they’d probably be in the same position as Europe. Especially since the metallurgic process only got so far across ALL nations back then. It’s nothing like the steel works of today. And keep in mind, since the Katana was more ceremonious and not exactly used as a main battle weapon, there was basically no point in optimizing it that much further than from tradition (as you see that Japan is strong with tradition). Which is why you see a big blow to the practicality of Katanas from the lack of a proper hand guard alone. One of the most vital points to target in a sword fight is your hands and wrists. A hand guard (and pummel too) is practically more useful in almost every way, but it changes the properties of the way you use the sword. So the katana you can still argue is better in some sword techniques, but then when it comes to actual battle, you’ll find that it lacks by a certain amount when it to a no bars combat. So wherever people who LOVE to compare these swords (like the people in the video), you should keep in mind that these swords are the way they are because of the circumstances they were in. If Japan had the iron of the east, you might as well call the “Saber” (or the two handed western sword they mentioned in the video) a Katana - and I know the saber is a one handed sword with a COMPLETELY different fighting style than a dual handed sword (it’s my favorite and in my opinion the best for fighting and I’m Asian myself). But I can’t technically call “Saber” a “Katana” or else I’ll be appropriating an actual weapon from a completely different culture. But the fact that there were weapons with similar features from completely remote cultures show that similar weapons might’ve come out of Japan if they have the same materials and need for them. So don’t feel bad if you are trying to compare cultures, I don’t think that’s what you should do in the first place and this basically gives you reason not to worry. And yes, after all, it does depend on the swordsman, but also the environment/scenario they are in. But don’t make the same mistakes by comparing which culture has better swordsmanship right after. Because it depends on the technology they have too, so don’t feel bad nor there is any reason to compare swordsmanship of historic figures. It would only be fair comparison of techniques and individuals when they are given the same resources - aka a knight with the armor, sword, and training of a samurai and vice versa. So to summarize, at the end of the day, in terms of practicality in battle, I’d give solid edge to the long sword over katana because of its properties and versatility of techniques. However, I just want to make a point that the comparison (although can come to basically a practical conclusion as I have), is kinda pointless, or at least in NO way mean “besting one culture over another. It kinda felt like all these HEMA enthusiasts missed the point of even comparing these weapons in the first place when they try to prove and “debunk” stuff about Katanas. Even the tests and conclusions they gave were even less objective and more flawed in explaining what is “better” than I did in this comment section, and I haven’t even gotten to the really technical parts yet. Altogether, I’m just “debunking” that there is any realistic reason to “fairly” compare these swords or swordsmanship other than the fact that it is fun for people. And once they are compared, make sure you all realize that it means no offense to your culture in anyway or putting you down since it’s all based on scenario. Because, all it takes is for you to have the right resources and reason to improve achieve the same goal (which in this case the same practicality between a Katana and long sword). That’s why I think it’s simply best to respect each others cultures for what they are at the end of the day instead of comparing what is “better” because it’s circumstantial. Like, you’re comparing a sword used in ceremonious occasions (executions or policing average peasants) or duals based solely on swordsmanship with leather armor or a lack of any against swords that are made to last even against metal armor. Yes, even long swords can be used for armor less duals, but that’s where the “fair” comparison should end. Not chopping a thin, very traditionally respected, brittle Katana against hard wood or metal armor. It’s simply not what it’s made for and simply never cared to be improved way beyond that - as I mentioned earlier - because the Japanese called the warriors pride and swordsmanship than just changing the katana every iteration (also disrespecting tradition). Keep in mind that a good majority of the population were peasants and farmers, and had chain sickles as a weapon. So weapons didn’t need to be improved to the point where they left tradition, but rather you as an individual has to improve the “almighty” weapon granted to you as an honored samurai. Respect and good sportsmanship was so high amongst the high profile samurai that the honorable thing to do if you lose the battle is to “commit-“ you know what. So all I’m saying is to respect each weapons culture and history instead of comparing oranges to tangerines. But if you want an objective test of practicality in a fight between a historically accurate long sword vs katana, I’d give the win to the long sword 🤷♂️
@aaronyu2660 I completely understand that the katana isn't really comparable due to the very different circumstances and purpose of the weapon. I was simply pointing out how many who hear "folded 1000 times" and assume it's far stronger (even tho in reality, if we did that to more durable metals, it would just make them brittle). A good example is how the Soviets heat treated their metal to make it stronger for their tanks. The problem is they did it way too much and actually made the armor easier to crack. At the end of the day, as you said, you can't really compare a katana to European swords in terms of purpose, or say "my sword could snap yours in 2", the katana is a traditional weapon, not a weapon specifically made for war, hence why it was a last resort, whereas most European swords were made with war in mind rather than tradition. It is fun to watch sparring matches between katanas and sabers, and the contrast between the 2 styles makes for a unique fight.
@@lonewolf0712 no I get it, but by now, the HEMA ppl and others have debunked it sooo many times by now that even that should be common knowledge by now. But otherwise, almost no complaints with what you said. Just with the attitude of the people in the video, not to mention this topic has been mentioned so many times years ago, yet just ONE single year ago, this video popped up in an age where this should long be debunked by now.
Really fun video guys
These intros have been so frickin cool please keep em coming!!!
The beauty of the Katana isn't that it is some special amazing sword among swords. The beauty of a Katana is the craftsmanship to turn garbage like tamahagani into a beautiful and effective weapon that can even be compared to other weapons made with vastly superior ore.
Not to put down the craftsmanship of Western smith's and their abilities, they are equally as amazing. I just wish people would stop with the whole "katana is God's gift to swords" nonsense.
Shadiversity has a dream team that big networks used to dream of having.
A lot of Samurai would use a slightly blunted katana when going into battle because it would chip less when making contact with other swords and or armor, thrusting into the niches of the armor was more than enough to kill.
23:41 This video just turned into an episode of "Forged in Fire"!!!!
And Tyranth just keeps busting screws... perfect!
Shoutout to the young fellow for being reliably unbiased. Great video guys.
I think the main problem in comparing an expensive katana to a modestly priced longsword is not that the katana would not be good enough, but that the longsword is too good. The mythos that has been created around the katana means that the most expensive ones are specifically made with an inferior method because that's traditional and what the prestige of katana is all about. In turn, there is no such tradition hampering the quality of most other swords, so any proper longsword, even a fairly cheap one, will be made of good modern spring steel because it's fairly accessible and the cost difference between it and some lower quality steel would be fairly meaningless. While there certainly was very good quality spring steel at best in the medieval Europe, I'm not sure how it would hold up to just a standard moder spring steel.
In short, there is no reason to use steel of historical quality for a longsword, but there is for a katana. So I don't think we can realiably compare the two, in a stress test at least. Though the best medieval European spring steel would probably still have the edge over the best feudal Japanese folded and differentially hardened steel.
There is no point in using traditional steel in a katana. If I was a soldier at war, I’d rather have a blade that will kill the enemy, not one that’s fancy and “traditional”.
@@Cybetrexs yes, there is no point in it if you want a sword that you'd actually use. But let's be honest, they are just vanity items 99.9% of the time, and in that respect the prestige (and looks) of a traditional method matters even if it's actually just inferior.
@@wombat4191 can you tell a folded steel sword made from shitty iron just by looks? Cause I can’t.
@@Cybetrexs the Hamon lines in particular is the looks part. You don't get those with spring steel.
Needed to add unbreaking 3 first silly
First off it looks like it actually got through the wood right the longsword didn't do that second honestly I get that it lost but people have been saying a lot of bad things about katanas and this restored my faith in them, I'm really impressed that it did so well against a much wider blade
They should have used a new piece of wood for each sword. Remember that they struck the wood first several times with the broadsword then went after it with the katana and then it broke on the last cut. That old, weather beaten board would have broke the same way if they had hit it the same amount of times with a piece of rebar.
Dude convinced me to get the Honshu blade ... Love the pattern❤❤❤
I never thought I'd see someone cutting food with a katana, But it is something I have always wished for in my life! ♥
Do the weeks not understand the reason Japanese swords are folded steel is because the steel sucks in Japan, they needed to take out the impurities in it and the more you work it the more trash comes out in the scale
The problem is they keep reading that the folded steel katanas are god-like weapons that cut through other swords, what they fail to realize from such historic sources is that those katanas are cutting through other more trashy metal katanas that were not folded to remove impurities because they dont contextualize the information they read
@@Arthur-Brown auto correct or big hands
@@jeanhernandez5258 exactly a good modern steel that is solid and has the right composition will destroy the steel used in katanas
That has to do with the forging process of the steel itself the you didn't do your research, once they've gone through the forging process the steel would actually be extremely high quality referred to as jewel steel so they could of made the sword look however they watched they just chose an objective worse design
@@The_MEMEphis if the steel can be refined to be good then the Japanese wouldn't have relied of importing steel to manufacture arms later. Did they improve it yes but it's not as good as people think especially compared to modern steels
It only makes sense for the Katana to leave more damage on the wood than the longsword though...
Spring Steel allows part of the energy to escape in the wobble (yes, very scientific terms), whereas with the rigid katana the energy only has 2 places to go, into the blade or into the wood.
Which destroys the blade. Great 😂
When it comes to price, I find the more mid-priced things to be the best. Over a certain dollars amount, you are rolling with the impression that more expensive equals better, which is not the case. Sometimes the price is just over inflated to take advantage of people. Mid-priced things tend to be of great quality while being honest or even humble about the actual worth of the thing.
Oh I was waiting for more HelloFresh ads! Good to see that they are back sponsoring you!
(also nice vid)
Love that you tested a katana against boromir’s sword ❤❤❤
I havent seen this yet but looks AWSOME