You won’t like this Printer, but it’s actually really good! (Form 3+ Review Conclusion)
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The Formlabs Form 3+ is a marvelous machine, but it only excels in the one specific use case it's built for - and it's probably not for you!
Part 1 of the series: • This resin 3D printer ...
Part 2 of the series: • When Lasers aren’t fas...
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Steamdeck by Valve gitlab.steamos.cloud/SteamDec...
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From iGo3D go.toms3d.org/Form3DE
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I hear “chipped cartridges” and i think of the burden we have with the ink cartridges in inkjet printers
Yo dawg, I heard you've printed with this cartridge more than the amount of times we deem "safe". Disabled!
You think right.
thats why i still have an old Canon, still prints fine on any kind of ink
There is a way around that stil..
We just received 25 cartridges of resin from formlabs, and NONE of them are recognized by the form2 machines we use for production. According to formlabs ( after diagnosis) they forgot to program the chip
That's a hilarious fail in QC and manufacturing.
Chipped refills, where have I heard of this before.....
We had two carts like that too but luckily they've been really quick to correct whatever comes up in my experience.
@@BenVanDenBroeck Have they just send you more ? Or given you the program
@Thomas Thanks for being transparent about the DRM. Many other reviewers tend to keep that in Formlabs favor on the down-low ! It is a great system, that is literally plug-and-play, but at the cost of tinker-flexibility and cost. Ideal for people that are not cost sensitive and need very reliable, repeatable results.
As a owner and user of the Form2, the chips are a blessing and curse... the amount of time the chip on the tank, or the level sensor on the vat throws an error, is about as much as you fiddle with an run of the mill chinese printer.
@@SarahKchannel That's an interesting take on it. It does make me wonder if a business wouldn't benefit from just simply stocking cheaper consumer grade replacement printers and parts, and don't bother with the "ease of use and support support" when you can just ignore one faulty machine and move to another (or like the vats: just have a bunch of labeled ones), while one person knows how to deal with all the faulty ones, like an internal IT department.
@@Kalvinjj As another business user, you'd be right if turnover wasn't a factor. A business isn't beloved like a hobbyist's workshop so the machines can easily become unmaintained, uncared for, etc. Many folks I work with have trouble keeping tabs on their tech only because their staff is so fluid they are training / re-hiring constantly. This environment then breeds more instability causing the whole process to keep cycling.
You bring up a lot of great points.
The Form 3 is definitely a printer optimized for a more professional environment, and not necessarily for hobbyists!
those prices really are brutal
Hobbiest and professionals, terms is just marketing jargon. There could be for a production environment or not.
@@MisterMakerNL Professionals are usually bound by time frames and deliverables; therefore, little to no time to tinker and troubleshoot down market hobbyist machines.
@@bernardtarver with a LCD printer the prints comes out much faster and that saves time as well. And unless you have a big company and money is not an issue, the Form printers are just too expensive to run.
Training people to work with a cheaper printer costs less and the price of future prints will costs much less. It’s just that Formlabs still have the name for professional 3D printers, but people don’t know that cheaper printers can do the same.
Cricky Tom, you're giving this the hard sell ;-)
My dad had a $20K 3d printer. I had my $200 ender 3. They were comparable. Except he needed reliable, repeatable parts without having to baby sit the machine. That's what you pay for. In business time is money.
Exactly!
time is money, so use that budget to get 20 printers that can share spare parts and run in parallel
I have a form 3 (not the plus, but I do have the springy quick release build plate upgrade) and use it mostly for printing minis. I’ve used masked lcd resin printers back to the OG photon. I love the form 3. The main reasons:
1) as you noted, it just works. I don’t have to worry about settings, ambient weather, etc. I don’t get print fails. Everything just works.
2) the resins may be expensive, but they are generally higher quality stuff than the cheaper msla resins.
3) it’s a real laser, which is not better for the finest details but the two advantages for me of a laser are first that you get analogue curves rather than voxels which looks better on my preferred chibi style mini prints, and second laser resin can be less reactive to UV than lcd/lamp resins, which in my experience means it doesn’t react to ambient UV light the way msla resins do. (Btw: if you completely clean the prints, you really don’t have to post cure the grey prints).
I can afford to pay for the above, and I like to say “I carefully considered the cost and benefits of the form 3 and then went ahead and bought one anyway,” but i really do love the printer. I have an epax e10 sitting next to it that I pretty much stopped using after getting the form 3.
It is funny getting the business oriented communications from them, however.
The quality of life features sound amazing, but the cost at which they come, definitely not worth it for hobbyists.
Thanks for these videos, I am starting a job that uses them so its good to know the ins and outs.
We have one at work, details are impressive !
And ease of use is top notch
This is the type of machine you'd hire someone to fix. It's like going back in time to use the old office Xerox machine with the code for use and the contract for refilling the ink.
I got excited. but then the DRM was mentioned and I immediately considered this thing a trashcan.
Excellent video. I am contemplating upgrading from the Form2 to the Form3+ so this was what I needed to "twist my arm"
If inkjet printers can give us any hint at all is that proprietary cartridges, especially ones with chips, can be REALLY bad for the customer
Wonder if "replacement" chips will be on the market - like many inkjet printers.
... but also REALLY profitable for the manufacturer
@@woodwaker1 I kind of doubt, as it's rather funny to pay 5 grand for a printer to then pirate/unlock it from the ecosystem you kinda got into knowing fully about it in the 1st place, while you could have spent less than a fifth of that price for a comparable machine that you don't require to be chip swapping or crap like that.
Same reason why I don't really have ANY fear about those chipped/ecosystem based machines: they just came far too late to the party to be the only option for the average consumer, they're not even targeted for the consumer that would benefit most form open systems (that they have more access to, than the closed ones), and the people interested in it not professionally can and will make it run on whatever they want.
It's not comparable to paper printers. Those never had DIY variants and open designs from the community that would perform well.
@@Kalvinjj - You make a good point. I would not spend that much for a unit that has the same features of one costing about 10% of their price
The major issue with proprietary inkjet printers is that the printers dry up, fail, etc. very often. Proprietary color laser printer life is a huge upgrade. You can go a very long time without needing to replace cartridges if you don't print a lot.
Hey Thomas, there is still a open moden on the form3. Not supersupported but you can buy a small usb to fool the material chip and set the material you want...even refill them...
We have one in our dental office, I agree that its more of a "Prosumer" market.
It is quite literally, set and forget for the most part. We print out orthodontic models for our patients, and create retainers for them. Since getting a form 3b its basically been flawless.
They kind of have the market cornered in the "prosumer" aspect with the service plans and genuinely helpful customer support (seriously, they overnight parts for things that need fixing without a fuss).
Plus their software is dead simple to use, you can literally onboard someone on how to use the printer in a little under 1 hour.
The biggest issue is the price, and the size of the damn printer, it is freaking large and has an enormous footprint.
Yes, you even get their phone number and call them when you get any problems with the printer. Cs has been great, just not the price :p
The form 3 resins are much less smelly and are also well engineered for prototyping.
Have you compared the resin tank and cartridge weight to the remaining resin in the dashboard after all your prints?
I have with the grey resin an under-estimation. So the printer claims it's empty but actually still has about 150gr in it. But way worse on the clear resin: The dashboard claims i still have 400ml left, but my cartridge if already completely empty! (multiple cartridges printed of both with pretty consistent errrors).
Also on the time estimation, this is always a massive under-prediction in the slicer. So i plan all my prints for the next few days. And then am constantly behind on my planning since all the predictions are off.
Those two issues to me make this printer terrible for production/professional work! They are a constant annoyance in my job and support has never helped me more than just sending back url's of manual pages that are besides the point!
(also, of the last 5 cardridges and 3 resin tanks: 2 cardridges had leaked inside the bag upon arrival. 3 had a bite valve that was completely shut and had to be slit open with a razor blade. 1 tank had a fawlty resin sensor (the arm was locked in place and filling the machine almost made the resin flow over into the machine). And lastly 1 other of the tanks had a magnet in the wiper in the wrong oriëntation whereby the printer constantly claims this wiper has come loose.
So yeah, not to great of an experience i've had with them.
Getting worried now 😮
Excellent review!!
So are the resin tanks refillable. Or a trade in program like empty return for credit towards full?
I think this video is pretty spot on (coming from somebody who has worked with a Form 3 in the past). You are paying for the "It just works" factor, and it quite good at that. Yes, everything is super proprietary, but this is meant for professional use in engineering labs and the like, and this will 100% end up costing less than paying engineers to screw around with cheaper machines. Combine that with their very nice cloud management interface, as well as Form wash and Form cure (both are great BTW and makes cleaning parts a breeze), excellent PreForm model slicing software, and the interchangeable resin tanks (expensive but 1000% worth it), this is an absolute winner for business customers using this for rapid prototyping and the like.
I had a Form 3 and I don’t understand how it’s easier to use than a cheaper printer. You still have to deal with failed prints, changing the supports, clean and cure the prints and cleaning the resintank. Unless you need the special resin they sell, there are no reasons why a cheaper printer won’t work as well.
Even if it is easier to use, the cost to keep it running is brutal!
bruh $177 for the base resin is mad
This price is too high for diy tasks I only see it when u sell prints
It is a ton! Not a lot of people use the base resin though... The advanced resins are where it's at. I use the 10K a lot!
Really great review. So many good points, well balanced, and fair.
I would not consider this printer for home (I still am not ready to get my hands dirty with resin printing of any kind), but I could see myself considering it for work, if a specific need arose. What is a lot of money for a home purchase is cheap when it saves time on a project. At the extreme level this could even be for one project and then the printer is never used again. $3,500 just isn't a lot for a work tool.
I have one at home, it's terrible. Possibly the worst 3D printing purchase I've ever made. I also have one at work, same story.
Well at least with the tracking and inventory management, they're making the DRM useful. Wonder if anyone will bother cracking it to sell half-price resin refills?
Cracked cartridges may only work with offline printers, as online machines can check which serial number cartridges were even put into circulation and how much they've been used.
They have already...
@@davidolsson You got a link for that 👀
@@DavidGonzalez-zg5ux protoart
3:05 Could I buy a new bottle of the same thing and re fill it ? Or is the chip working like the strabismus type printer ?
I agree, this is very much a product for companies to use. Easy to use and train users for, a self contained environment limiting contracting requirements for service, and higher cost. While I will definitely stick to machines that are enthusiast oriented, these machines have a purpose, and move the industry forward. These types of machines are what will make 3D printing mainstream by making it easy for the average person.
Didn't Tom say all the "new" features are patented? If so it will be a long time before these features can be used by others.
Regardless, the background is lit.
Thomas, I am in the pre-purchase phase and looking at the 3+ and 3B+. Id love to get the 3+ for the pricepoint. Do you know if it's possible to run their BioMed/biocompatible resins through the 3+ or would it cause problems? All of my planned usage would be with their standard Flexible 80A resin, but I hate the idea that I'd be completely limiting myself from ever using some of their biocompatible resins
I would assume that Formlabs would stop you from trying to run material they consider incompatible with the machine. If the material/machine combination is not officially listed as compatible, I wouldn't bank on hoping that it will still work.
Too bad you weren't sent any tough 2000 resin to test. I've found it to be extremely well named and much much more resilient than any other resin I've come across. The entire Formlabs package is unfortunately too cost prohibitive for me to get into so I'm on the hunt to find a good analogue to use with Elegoo or other "open" printers, whether that's a single solution or a mix.
thank you Thomas
Having used Formlabs machines before, your assessment is on point. They are not made for hobbyists, they are professional machines, where the price is not a concern. Where time is money it makes a lot more sense. Details like checking for incompatible resin in the vat and hiding things for the sake of reliability would annoy hobbyists, but save companies money.
that's what people say when they paid too much for an average, locked-down product. it's for pros! (even when it has features that only noobs would need)
@@natalieisagirlnow no, it's really not. When you have a battalion of these things making parts for you and troubleshooting is not something you have time for, you don't give a damn about the locked down ecosystem or the price. Those are insignificant problems that only the company you're working for has to "worry" about. If a print fails or something breaks and you miss a deadline, you'll be out a lot more than the premium you pay for the pro machines that avoid those issues. If you can't understand that, these machines are absolutely not for you.
@@SplicesAndCelluloid you don't always get more by paying more. you just have less money and less to show for it
@@natalieisagirlnow I think you should pay a visit to a factory using these machines, bring your own printer and then say how it's way better because it's open source etc and would make them way more money. I think they'll have a very hard time not laughing. :)
@@VincentGroenewold no factory will use this, no matter how much formlabs wants it to happen
Was strongly considering buying one of these. Spent the day researching, including browsing the forums. Given the price of the unit, and a LOT of complaints about a wide variety of issues all over the forums (hardware, software, etc), decided against it. I will wait another couple of years to see if a better product comes out. Hopefully a competitor can crush them because their pricing is absurd, especially for the resin.
I was doing the same thing. I wanted to buy a used formlabs but seems like it’s not worth it. Have a look at heygears they come from dental industry and there new Printer seems like an alternative to formlabs. But if you have some time wait till it’s out in the wild.
Three part series on a printer that's not for us in your audience. Love it! 😅🙌
Still interesting
I think that with this does however is show you what you might step up to if you start doing it in a more business style setting rather than just hobbyist fun
I am actually happy with this review. I have been wanting a resin printer that I can run with minimal fuss at a decent price, and this actually might be what I've been waiting for. Thomas's reviews have really helped me identify what type of craftsman I am and what tools fit my workstyle. Not all of us are 'tinkerers'.
It's perfect for me. I'm in his audience and this series has convinced me that this is the prefect printer for my small business.
If it wasn't so expensive, I'd visit that garden sometimes; walls or not.
Very well thought through, very convenient to handle, very expensive, completely locked-in: The Apple of 3D.
You can buy a kit to run it in open mode aswell
@@dtj9923 Well that depends on witch one of the material you print with.
@@davidolsson That's weird, I had posted this comment elsewhere in the discussion, I'll move it.
On the Form 2, I’ve found that dimensional accuracy suffers throughout different areas of the build plate. For maximum accuracy, I tend to print towards the center of the build plate. It seems to me that the Form 3 would have better accuracy since the light head unit moves across the build plate. Also, I’ve had “tall” prints bend due to the peeling forces, thus making the low force aspect intriguing. If you’re interested in making precise prints, perhaps the Form 3+ does offer some capabilities other printers do not.
Thank you for this insight. I consider buying the FORM3+
What thermal camera are you using? Are you editing the output at all, or are those images raw(ish)?
It's a Flir One Pro - the image you're seeing is straight out of camera, it's even cropped from the original 4:3 ratio to fit 16:9. Really happy with the camera! go.toms3d.org/flir
You cant clean out the tank and use another Formlabs material in it. Once you use that tank, the tank is coded to that resin.
The form wash and form cure are very much worth it, that finish kit is left over from the days of the Form 2.
You can! When you change resins with it a warning will be shown and you can recode that tank!
what is the best reliable printer among all small printers available at the market (ratrig minion, prusa mini, voron 0)?
I'm using my Form 2 machine to produce products, which are used in the racing car environment
I know that the biggest 3D printing service in my country skipped on the SLA machines and went with mSLA consumer level machines... those closed systems have a lot of bell and whistles but are essentially slower and often don't print as well as the newer high res mSLA printers.
The only upside of closed systems are the materials, but then again the formlabs materials aren't what the company hypes them up to be, formlabs resins aren't that much better than other comparable open system 405nm resins. Companies like stratasys actually do a lot more R&D on materials and for some specific applications it can mean a lot, but personally, I wouldn't choose formlabs for anything, hobby or professional use. Maybe their solution for dental parts is cheaper than the competitors, just that.
I used to work at a place that had large-format inkjet printers for engineering drawings (blueprints), and the idea of saving a few bucks by using generic cartridges would never occur to anybody. Between possibly damaging the printer and the potential cost of six-figure-salary workers waiting for prints, I'd expect to be fired. In such cases I'd suggest that DRM is welcome just to avoid counterfeits.
This only works if the manufacturer has a reputation for quality. In this case the resin is known to be nothing special, despite costing more than more trusted brands.
I support and I upkeep the local school's printers.. We started out with FDM printers in the whole school. No problem, doors on printers in the elementary school helped protect the little kids, etc. Now they are starting to buy good but cheap-o resin printers. And the teachers know NOTHING about resin. I was almost screaming "where are your gloves!" When they called me in to help. Their excuse was it is water based so not an issue, just wash hands afterwards! Omg, they dont get it. I told them NO KIDS even the older ones, without full gloves, goggles, etc.. This is something I never foresaw... The formlabs closed systems would be better for these situations, but compared to low $300 cost of an Elegoo system, They will never be put into schools like the one I support for my own kids. All I can do is make noise so the little kids only get exposed,to the FDM printers. :(
Even with something likle a Formlabs printer, I don't think resin printers are a good fit for elementary schools
Three title changes in less than a day
5:44 Nice...
Just the video I needed. Lightly looking into 3D printing for various reasons, and this video tells me that this is NOT the one for me. Great machine, good print quality but it is a printer for Pro use, not hobbyist. I did send away fro my 'free' part from formlabs, as I am still curious, and it may help me decide if I really want my own printer of any kind, or just pay to have parts printed. - Cheers
would be nice to share some stuff you printed and a bit more thoughts
Chipped cartridges and a totally closed ecosystem at a time where the world is still suffering a supply chain catastrophy with no end in sight, is a real turn off. Especially at the small business/startup price point.
Great video Tom! I think you did a great job covering the walled garden without getting hung up on it any time. Nice work!
I use a form 3b+ and a 3L in my work and it's really not a machine for everyone, but when you get used to the practicality of a form, it's annoying to use another resin printer.
Agreed. We tried to use some LCD one (mono x) and we ditched it quite quickly. Too difficult, messy, takes a long time to set up, etc.
Same here. Most problematic was the quality issue with the was and cure stations but no mentioning of this in his review. We wen't thru 3 wash stations until they found one that worked :)
@@sarunaspaulauskas1702 I have the same experience with the Mono X. I love the size and speed of printing WHEN it works, but it is too time consuming to get working and we get an insane amount of failed prints, and prints where we have to CNC at least one side to make them work.
Are you using the Form 3 for engineering prints and how usefull are they?
I've run into that tank lifetime issue too. The chip got confused and thought it started being used at the UNIX begining of time. January 1st, 1970.
Does it use 100% of the resin in the cartridge everytime?
I feel like this printer may be in a limbo state. The material is too expensive for a small businesses, but for one bigger, more expensive printers seem more appropriate
This seems like one of those products where you are totally dependant on the manufacturer to be able to continue using the product? What if the company ceases to exist, or its servers goes down? And in those cases....getting workable resin, and using it without their servers, etc.? Will the unit continue being operational without the company?
Actually you can get universal cartridges. Just not from them :)
Is there perhaps a program via formlabs to return empty resin cartridges? So well designed, apart from a few software items (eg the time of use of your cartridge) the rinse tray, and the support issue. it's just a shame they turned it into a landfill generator. As a corporate tool, walking into a noxious fume source presents a serious safety risk that should be presented in the sell phase, its a no brainer upsell source.
That is definitely one thing they seem to have just definitively ignored both the recyclable cartridge problem and pretending fumes and VOCs don't exist..... I'm waiting for their employees to sue them in 20 years with cancer being around those unventilated print farms however they should do recycling I agree
You buy it, and you buy something you'll never own !! You won't be able to repair it if something goes wrong after the warranty time etc.... just a bad locked environment !
Anyway, thank you for this interesting video :-)
Can I refill the empty form labs 3 resin cartridges with some aftermarket resin ???
No, you are forced to use their own random resins. That's the point of it, they want to force you to use only their products, and that is a laughable concept imo. You cannot make ANY functional parts with this trash, if you need to use an engineer resin in large quantities for example , then you screwed.
I'm curious, are there any stats out there regarding cause of printer use?
What I mean by that is, are resin printers being used for visually stunning prints more than mechanically useful prints?
Same with FDM, are more people using them for mechanically useful prints over visually stunning prints?
I find resin printer reviews interesting but not interested in one due to the liquid aspect of it all, I like the 'inert' materials of FDM prints, and how usually you can use the part the instant the print stops and you take it off the bed.
I must admit when I saw "chipped" in the thumbnail, the first thing I thought was, aww new printer chipped? as in broken, already. Lol
I use these in a university as a 3d printer operator, two form 2 machines and their wash and cure setup. They are pain in a butt to run. The detail is not great and also the supports get way thicker than what they need to be and what they set up to. Almost all the parts need to be sanded and oh boy, they stay sticky for a looong time. The IPA wash gets so dirty so quick that you have to exchange the ipa on monthly basis. Both ipa and resin are both expensive. Their support (mail based) also suggests that you exchange the tank as often as the cartridge, so that's another cost on top. All in all, it works. But the ease of use is not as prominent as mentioned in this video. Even if I ever had the money to buy one from these to have at home, I would rather get the cheaper one with a bit of freedom.
You mentioned replacement parts, and I just want to mention that Formlabs wouldn't even send us those for our Form 2.
I really want one of these. But the expense is just too high. The laser technology appeals to me as it allows for a greater variety of resins, most of which are better for engineering... but its just so damn pricey.
Same here, totally fine paying twice as much for a resin simply for convenience it brings but not quadruple for sure. Also how one experiments with alternative resins if only Form material can be used?! Looks like it’s time to revisit Form 2 with it’s “Open Mode”
So what happens when you refill a cartridge with compatible resin?
Probably the same thing as with an inkjet cartridge. It tells you to piss off and your warranty is void.
Typically it's tracked so you can't exceed the max % of the cartridge. And they're cloud connected so you probably can't trick it on another printer.
I manage a brand new animal rescue facility. We are a non-profit and rely on donations and such for our program. At our last meeting, I brought up the fact that there might be a lot of things we could save money on by purchasing an affordable printer. I was wondering if you could recommend one that would be affordable, reliable, and pretty easy to operate. I've never used one before but after watching a few of your videos you make it look easy so I'm in. I just need to convince the old school and that's why I need help. Hope you read this.
We bought the biggest version in my company some months ago, the sour surprise was discovering that the bed only last 72 hours with some resins
Wow
@@MadeWithLayers I think keep in mind that it was most likely the high-end engineering resin if i had to guess....which are very tough on FEP
We recently bought a From3L as well and have not had a good experience so far.
@@dtj9923 Have you contacted support?
@@cjadams7434 Yes, many times. My experience across three different current production Formlabs machines has been pretty consistent. Disappointing.
You are basically signing up to be a beta tester when you buy one of these printers. When prints fail they appreciate the feedback but don't compensate you for materials consumed.
We made an extensive analysis and, well, Formlabs' laser SLA it's a NO GO! Though it's exquisitely well engineered even over engineered. But the main point, and this is the mayor flaw and a huge miss is the sloooooooooooowness of the process. And if we assume that this is for "corporate users", well those guys don't have time to waste. Not to mention the unjustifiably overpriced resin. Since Formlabs claims practically zero adhesion force due to their wired and overengineered "print-head-resin-wat" system they use a awful lot of support pillars and structures wasting huge amount of preciouses resin.
Bottom line, if you want to buy an exquisite piece of engineering, well GO FOR IT! If you are buying an everyday workhorse that is fast, cheap and has a low cost of ownership, GO ELSEWHERE! Even or specially if you are a "corporate user".
that resin cost tho.... love to see this up against some of the cheaper commercial grade one and ur right this is not for consumers, prosumers maybe
nice background
I don't use cartridge ink jet printers and I don't use cartridge 3D printers. I do not use chipped CNC mill and I do not use chipped laser engraver/cutter. I physically disabled the chip for my refrigerator's water filter. I do not play the razor game and my car's gas is not chipped. Formlabs is a big no. The resin cost alone is disgusting.
The Form 3+ produces way better parts than any budget printers for engineering parts, interference fits are always perfect on the form.
Chipping the resin cartridges really scares me away
Everything is chipped, and they suggest to unscrew the cap of the tank to fill the vat. How the printer cope with that? Is there a way to bypass the chip? What if you spill the vat? Empty the vat back in the tank? Chips don't make life easier, they just force you to buy more when you still have plenty.
As long as the printer isn't over or under filled, it doesn't really care. The machine doesn't stop printing when it thinks the cart is empty. You can manually refill cart but the auto-dispense feature may not work so just pour directly into the vat. Haven't spilled a vat yet but all you're doing is messing with the numbers on the dashboard and possibly some warranty issues. This doesn't force you to keep semi-filled carts around or throw away good resin.
@@BenVanDenBroeck Thanks for the clarification. That sounds much better than what I expected. I though it was more like the chips in ink cartridges of InkJet printers
There are alot of negative comments on the Form 3 here. I'm an engineer and I enjoy tinkering but when I'm at work churning out designs and prototypes to meet datelines, I expect the prints to be 100% successful and the printer to be as hassle free as much as I can so I can put all my focus and effort on the design and not the printing process.
I quite like closed ecosystems where everything just works seemlessly. I would pay extra for that convience
I applied to work at Formlabs a few years ago, made it through three or four levels of pretty intense interviews and assignments just to make it to an in-person interview (pre-covid). Long story short, it didn't work out, and looking back on it it was a case of "judging a goldfish on it's ability to walk," but that's neither here nor there. After watching these series of videos, I don't feel so bad about it being my singular bad interview experience because I don't want to work for a company that relies so heavily on proprietary parts and DRM in their products. Just doesn't jive with the world I want to help build, y'know?
I own a form 3 and the "chip lock" feels like I don't really own the machine , cannot even try third party resin (no open mode) and it is getting more restricted with newer version , they separated/restricted bio resins , even though the machine is fully capable for printing with them and started a separate higher priced model . it is not an open machine for hobbyist , but a business machine for professionals.
A better solution would be to use the chip to verify it's authentic. And warn that the warranty may be void if you use third party resins (based on the damage).
what stops you from just washing out a cartridge and refilling it with different resin?
A) That the profiles for curing the resins are vastly different from what the cheaper resins need that are used for masked SLA so it mostly wouldn't give you much. B) Early into the Form 2 life (that's when Formlabs introduced these cartridges), people were refilling cartridges with Formlabs bottled resin (for Form 1) and after a while the rubber bite valves were cracking and leaking resin. Tl;dr the cartridges are locked after having dispensed ~2-2.5l of resin
the internet id number and the formlabs hardware
@@natalieisagirlnow None of that prevents you from refilling and reusing a cartridge
@@Chaosghoul it prevents the pump from topping off the vat because the printer thinks the tank is empty because the chip says so
@@natalieisagirlnow That is not how it works. Also the vat is the tank, the thing in the back with the resin in it is the cartridge and there is no pump. Almost all cartridges contain one litre of resin and the chip only blocks the cartridge if more than ~2-2.5 litres have been dispensed from the cartridge to prevent the bite valve from ripping.
There is plenty of sfuff to not like Formlabs for, but they are not keeping resin in the vartridge while telling you it is empty
Is Thomas changing the tittle over over again?
Laser vs LED. What is the difference?
Nice
I hear chipped and think that price will steadily increase. Because it will be the only resin recognized by the printer
I want to hate this machine, but have to admit that it has its place. Especially in a business environment where people who aren't in this hobby are using it. There's still going to be a learning curve, but imagine throwing an Elegoo or Anycubic unit at someone who never used any type of 3D printer before (let alone a resin printer) and expecting them to make it all work. This flattens the learning curve - at a price, of course.
Exactly!
The price is freedom... As always.
especially when you have to consider running multiple resin test prints and dialing in resin for each new batch ....that takes a lot of time and energy that most of us business people would just not want to do ....I'm not gonna sit there and play around with slicer profiles for a day using up resin...not printing customer jobs
companies that immediately want to generate "ecosystems" with chipped products and restrictions don't give a shit about users. If they did, they would allow them to use the product however they want. Who's product is it? I'm glad reviews like this exist because it helps me educate others to not buy into companies that do this sort of thing.
I really don't like the new 10-12 min format. This could be one video instead of three separated.
It would have been a 30+ minute video. Wanted to try if more bite-sized segments would work, but apparently not..
@@MadeWithLayers I think some videos benefit from being shorter, but some should be as long as needed to cover the topic. I wouldn't mind a project being split up in different parts, with shorter videos covering different things (see TT series on building machines), but a review should be all one video so that it can be referenced and you can skip through after. The idea is good, this was an unfortunate first try. Keep up the good work though!
Wow that resin is insanely expensive
Xyz DaVinci had the same setup with FDM you need to buy there stuff and it's not cheap
I own a XYZPrinting Da Vinci Pro 1.0, and as long as you use your first cartridge to build a decent spool holder in the back, you can use other brands of filament. I have been using Hatchbox, MGChemicals & SUNLU for years now, and never purchased a XYZPrinting cartridge. I cannot vouch for their other printers, though.
@@AdamSamson1991 it's the chip in the cartridge it take no other filament how did you by pass
I have same printer I found at electronics waist container . printed broken piece
@@jean-francoisaubin It might be because the slicer I used since the beginning is not the one offered by XYZprinting, but Simplify3D. I leave the cartridge slot empty, and I attached a hook behind the machine to hold the spools I use, and I use the machine’s settings to setup the nozzle temperature to load/unload my filament.
EDIT: I recommend to check the TH-cam channel 3D Print Creator. The channel has a few videos related to the Da Vinci Pro 1.0.
@@AdamSamson1991 thanks
Reminds me of ultimaker vs prusa FDM. Having a closed ecosystem that gets in your way can get pretty anoyoing. At work we were steered to a ultimaker because it would save us time. It did not. When you are in a closed system, things slow way down when you need parts, non standard workflows or new filaments.
Definitely agree, I used an Ultimaker in a professional setting and I had to do just as much tuning as when I built my own printer, but it was such a pain in the ass because it was so locked down. The NPC tags on the spools never got read correctly, and caused a huge headache. I would have loved to be working with a Prusa, because it's designed for real convenience and reliability, not squeezing profits out of users.
When you do the stuff it says it can do, how is that experience?
@@rhadiem I'm more technical so not great on Ultimaker. It was just so slow to start, no way to adjust mid cycle like I am used to. The hand holding is nice for new users but after a while it is like, ok, my bed is level and this is taking forever to recheck level, let me just get this print going that I restarted. Any time we did have an issue, it was a major PITA to make a repair vs on prusa.
There's something to be said for a pain-free (mostly) experience in printing. One day I hope we can just hit CTRL-P and click ok to get brainless prints of everything.
It really isn't as good as he makes it sound. These machines are actually really buggy and problematic. Things are not as automated as they are represented in their marketing claims or this review.
Make all one vid next time?
A few years ago when I was doing a lot of freelance work I bought a Form 2. Initially I was impressed with it, but as time wore on it proved to be buggy and an unpleasant experience (due to working with resin and post processing). Formlabs was selling reconditioned F2's until recently, but is already floating the end of life date out there for F2 components and consumables. After spending several thousand dollars on this thing and only having it a few years this is just total BS. I'm glad I can play with open mode and will probably mod and hack mine as needed. I'll never buy another Formlabs machine. Just wait a few years and they will drop support for this thing as soon as the Form 4 comes out.
I've had to fight this kind of thing a lot in my 3D printing shop. Lots of customers with Flashforge, QidiTech, and other rip-offs of the old Replicator. And you know my history here...these are the companies that caused Bre pettis to close-source MakerBot and essentially steal what he could from the communities he built on the shoulders of.
Despite my absolute hatred towards this kind of thing - for my customers, there is some benefit in buying a machine that already has all the kinks worked out, and doesn't have any firmware upgrade paths, etc. Obviously I don't suggest it to any of them, and my own biases have caused some hurt feelings of those people who had already chosen those machines when I tell them why I cannot work on them.
Yes It's aimed to companies and that the law in many countries requires non touch or minimiezed touch with the resin. Also strict restrictions on ventingt that the machine cannot stand for or come with. No private customer will drop 5000eur on a machine for just printing at home, that just don't make any sense thinking. For detailed prints there is a resin category for just that. We've used their tough 1500, flexible80, Durable and Draft. Vast difference in material detail and performance. I feel this review misses the goal abit and resting heavy on leaning on a bug in the software on a pre-production form3+? Hmm...sorry
So all the cool DIY stuff for 3d printing removed .-.
For :
Ease of use
and limited lifespan. if it only prints when it phones home, what happens when they stop making cartridges and chips? nothing at all and you have a pretty $3k box
can you not drill a hole in the cartridge and just funnel in a 3rd party resin, i thought at first no but if you can take the gromet out and pour it into the tray maybe yes
Of course you could easily refill the cartridge with your own stuff, but (I haven't tried this) I doubt the printer will continue to work when the chip on the cartridge says you've already used up its content.
@@MadeWithLayers @Dana Williams Nope @Dana; Formlabs cartridges do lokc after a while (because the bite valve could rip), but that amount is set to ca 2-2.5l so even if the tracking got messed up, that upper limit is more than double what the cartridge originally contained
So what you're saying is that it has become the Apple of resin printing.
So it's a printer for for-profit companies that recuperate that premium through their customers. Check. 🤣
Yup! - And FL never marketed to hobbyists anyway... corporate and makerspaces it is great for ....repeatable printing and less mess cleanups.
I would describe this as an SLA printer for people who don't know how to 3D print. I think Formlabs is banking on them also not knowing what good prints actually look like. You drop it in a corporate office situation and start printing money off of locked in consumables. That's the business model.
@@dtj9923 it’s like people still use Autodesk 3DS Max and spend so much money for the license. But they don’t know that nowadays you can do the same with Blender for free. They don’t want to train their employees to use new software, so they keep use the more expensive option. Formlabs is banking on the same idea. Companies don’t want to take risks and change.
I hated the proprietary ink cartridges on the old inkjet printer so this seems like the same going backwards. This is the single definitive reason not to get such a product, for me at least.
$199 per kg for resins.. OUCH..!
"Hey! Let's try and get more money out of this product by drm'ing and locking everything! Call it a "Pro", simplify the system (but don't fix problems or give troubleshooting guides) and nobody is going to question why our printer is less capable than the cheaper "consumer" variants!"