Hi Stuart, thanks for the follow up on my question. My QCTP is an older Phase 2 and looks nothing like yours when taken apart. I talked to a tech person at Phase 2 and he informed me that they have had several questions over the years on this issue. It was actually a manufacturing error and the hole for the handle was drilled in the wrong position on some of their earlier units. Mine has no triple threads and looks nothing like yours did. According to the Phase 2 tech the only solution is to redrill and tap a new hole. I was watching a Keith Rucker video and noticed that it looked like he had a QCTP that locked up in almost the same position as mine. This is not a huge game changer so I'll probably just live with it. If it's good enough for Keith it's good enough for me LOL. I do greatly appreciate your help and follow up on this issue and you are one of the reasons why this TH-cam machinist group is so great.
Any threaded item has a known start and end point where the thread starts and then fully tightens up. Stuart's happened to have 3 but it's still 3 known start points. And all threads have a pitch distance between each thread. Obviously decimal inches for imperial threads and MM for metric. To properly index your operating handle to the position you want it in, first figure out the thread pitch, decimals or MM and use even a cheap plastic protractor to get a close estimate of how many degrees you want the handle to advance or retard it's rotation point of where it's tight. Lets say your thread pitch is 20 tpi, that's .050" per one full revolution. Divide that by 360 degrees to get how much distance per degree of rotation. .050" divided by 360 = .000138" per degree. So if you want to move the handle by 60 degrees? 60 X .000138" = .00828" either trimmed of the bottom or a washer of that thickness added. Depending on your exact parts layout it may be possible to either trim the correct amount off the underside of part the handle threads into or add a machined washer of the correct thickness. It's just a simple math problem to figure out how much to remove or add. Your qctp may have very hard parts so it might be best to just add that washer and have it sounds like about 60% less of one thread engaged than you do now. One way or another it should be easy enough. Or just drill and tap the handle in a new position like others have said. Indexing threaded parts to the correct clock position is really quite easy. You can also face off the correct amount off the start point on the screw so it then has a different clock position to where the thread starts.
Great info! I just acquired a South Bend 9A and I'm completely brand new to machining. The lathe came with a QCTP and sure enough, the handle was bumping into the adjustment bolt on one of the tool holders. I found this video and ... my first (and successful) little project for my lathe. Thank you!
Fantastic video. I just got one and it’s crunchy as hell. I’m glad you worked out how to pull it apart so I didn’t have to go through the pain of discovering the left hand thread.
I'm a little late to the party. Excellent video. Mine is labeled Hess 250-222 and could never get a tool holder to fit on the front position of the post. Was able to get front tensioner in correct position after watching this video. Much appreciated.
It's an issue that crops up from time to time, but I can't say I've ever seen anyone post a video about it before - so good job on getting it covered Stuart. Been there done that myself since I have 2 older Phase II QCTP's myself. (AXA and BXA) I pulled them apart 20+ years ago to clean and lube them (twice... since I went too heavy on the grease the first time) and accidentally got one of them out of time. Both of mine have the same construction with the (3) multi-start threads and it took a minute or two to figure out what happened. Glad to see there will be a video to point to now in the future when the question comes round again for the next guy. 👍
I have a Chinese knock off on my lathe and it tightens by turning the handle counterclockwise instead of clockwise as yours does. You can adjust it by re-timing the core but because it only has a double start thread you can only adjust it by 180 degrees. Since the handle ended up obstructing the left hand side of the dovetails when loosening the wedges, my solution was to make a longer handle and then heating and bending it for clearance. I installed it and then bent it after it was installed so that the bend was in the correct orientation in relation to the thread timing. Once done, I used red locktite to locate it semi permanently and it fixed my problems.
Thanks for posting this. Mine is an Heihai toolpost that looks identical to yours, and has 3 position threads too. Mine had lubricant and even a felt washer to hold oil. Anyhow, I got mine out of time, but I'm all good now. It feels a lot better with Superlube grease. Mine is about 20 years old.
Thanks for this. I am getting into machining as a hobby and know very little. Yesterday I was facing off some cast iron castors and was having so much trouble with my tool post that I switched to an old style that came with my lathe. Question: groove under the head of the triple thread screw is supposed to have a felt strand in it to keep chips out of it I am guessing. Aloris sells it for $17+ shipping. Any other sources?
Check McMaster Carr to see if they have felt washers. I know you can by the sheets of felt from them and make your own, but at that point you might as well buy the one from Aloris.
My quick change is different. It has a plunger behind each tool holder. It still used dovetails, just different locks. I'll have to dig into mine also. Good video.
I'm glad it helped. Fun fact, genuine Aloris tool posts have right-handed threads and if you confidently turn them to the left you eventually break a very expensive part.
I just bought a unknown year aloris cxa tool post, and the nut is not left handed. Viewers make sure you look at the threads on the bottom of the tool post to make sure if the threads are left or right. Good video though.
Since this video was made, I have had the opportunity to take apart a genuine Aloris and yes, the threads on those are right-handed. Perhaps the left-handed threads on the import was a way to avoid a patent?
I didn't even catch that this was a import. I Googled aloris tool post disassembly and this was the first video that popped up. That is a possibility. The video was a good help regardless.
Steps after receiving an off-shore item: totally disassemble, clean all the crap off, de-burr where applicable, lube, assemble, adjust, tune, smash, etc. :) Hopefully use as intended. Cheers
Funny thing is, I took apart a genuine Aloris tool post a couple of weeks ago at work and they are right handed. I found that out after confidently cranking the shit out of that screw in a clockwise direction until it snapped.
Hmm. Well, the positions are actually, facing and turning - the one on the left hand side, and boring, the one parallel to the work. My Dorian and Aloris tool posts don’t stick up. Some of the less expensive Chinese posts somehow do have long screws. I can’t think of a good reason for it other than they may be using the same screw for different size posts.
I have an Aloris brand axa for my 13x38 lathe. I've always thought it was a little small. So I bought a cheap chinese bxa tool post like yours. You should have seen the crap and rust I found inside. 🙄 Yuchol at woodscreek workshop here on YT shows how to get rid of the sloppy way your qctp works by making a washer. The other option is to machine the depth the shoulder on the triple start tread goes down into the block. The question is how to hold that in the lathe?🤔
I'm absolutely shocked it's not a cam! It does serve as a useful reminder that I have not ever lubed my QCTP, much less taking it apart. I don't know why it never occurred to me, I'm normally pretty anal about keeping machines oiled
I'm tearing into mine tomorrow! Not to throw more wrenches into this, I'm not happy where mine locks either, but unless mine has a 5 start acme thread, it's kinda in between. (e.g. it locks at about 3;30) Could be worse I suppose, but it interference-y with tailstock.
Stuart, Are the 200 series tool post all the same,? I have a tool post that came with my Grizzly G-0709 gunsmithing lath, but all the holders are listed under a 200 series as a 250-201 tool holder, so what is the 250-210 mean? Need to buy 10 to hold all my other tools. Thanks for any help and also now I know how to adjust my locking leaver and clean it.
There are different styles like the plain turning tool holder with a flat bottom or the turning/boring holder that has the v-groove for a boring bar. That's the difference between the numbers.
Sturt, I know that but what I would like to know are the sizes of the tool holders listed as to what size you have, holders need to fit over the dovetails, so for a 200 style or series listed as 250 ??
All the ones we have at work are labeled 250 or just BXA. If it's listed as being a BXA series, it should fit your toolpost. Let me know if you need anything else.
Hey Stuart, your collet chuck, is that the one from bostar? If not, may I ask the manufacturer, as well as your opinion of it? Looking for a 5C setup, I don't necessarily need the ability to pass through the headstock, just shopping for inexpensive accuracy
I bought it on ebay a long time ago so I couldn't tell you the seller. I like it a lot. It's a little slow to change out collets compared to a draw tube type, but I don't have a gear head lathe or a foot brake, so it is more convenient for me.
I have a question; not sure if it will be video worthy though. I am a machining noob who bought a 12x36 import lathe last fall, which I have used to make a few things so far. Would like to try my hand at single point threading and I bought an insert tool holder and some inserts off ebay recently. Tool holder is a Kennametal STPR103B "on edge" unit, and the inserts I bought to go with it are their T02P-32R006. The issue I have is the tip is not 60 degrees like you would expect for threading, not even 55 degrees (which would still be useful to me since I am into British cars), but something less. Not sure if these are for some purpose other than threading, or if I am just not understanding how they are supposed to be used (probably). The variety and nomenclature of insert tooling is complicated, to say the least. I can email pictures of what I have if that will help. Before everybody hollers, "Use HSS!" I am trying to minimize grinding dust in my shop as much as possible. My old shop got absolutely nasty with it, so if I can eliminate some of the dust by buying insert tooling, that is what I am going to do. I may wind up buying one of the HSS insert kits from AR Warner which is probably what I should have done in the first place. Anyway, thanks for the great and helpful videos.
I tried looking for those inserts and can't really find any good pics. The 32R looks like it's meant for cutting right handed threads since they also have 32L inserts. Do they have a top rake angle sloping down from the cutting edge? If so, that effectively decreases the angle of the tool. Can you send me a pic or two of the inserts? You can find my email on the About tab on my channel page, but I believe it is only accessible from the desktop TH-cam site, not the app.
I was going to try a spring under the front wedge to keep it from going out of time. Sometimes i can pop it up with a screwdriver, or it drops too low to put on toolholders.I have aluminum shim under the 444 toolpost holder to better match my swing.
Hi Stuart, thanks for the follow up on my question. My QCTP is an older Phase 2 and looks nothing like yours when taken apart. I talked to a tech person at Phase 2 and he informed me that they have had several questions over the years on this issue. It was actually a manufacturing error and the hole for the handle was drilled in the wrong position on some of their earlier units. Mine has no triple threads and looks nothing like yours did. According to the Phase 2 tech the only solution is to redrill and tap a new hole. I was watching a Keith Rucker video and noticed that it looked like he had a QCTP that locked up in almost the same position as mine. This is not a huge game changer so I'll probably just live with it. If it's good enough for Keith it's good enough for me LOL. I do greatly appreciate your help and follow up on this issue and you are one of the reasons why this TH-cam machinist group is so great.
Thanks Jim. It was fun taking it apart and it certainly needed some lube in there. Sorry it didn't solve your issue.
Re drill and tap the hole
Any threaded item has a known start and end point where the thread starts and then fully tightens up. Stuart's happened to have 3 but it's still 3 known start points. And all threads have a pitch distance between each thread. Obviously decimal inches for imperial threads and MM for metric. To properly index your operating handle to the position you want it in, first figure out the thread pitch, decimals or MM and use even a cheap plastic protractor to get a close estimate of how many degrees you want the handle to advance or retard it's rotation point of where it's tight. Lets say your thread pitch is 20 tpi, that's .050" per one full revolution. Divide that by 360 degrees to get how much distance per degree of rotation. .050" divided by 360 = .000138" per degree. So if you want to move the handle by 60 degrees? 60 X .000138" = .00828" either trimmed of the bottom or a washer of that thickness added. Depending on your exact parts layout it may be possible to either trim the correct amount off the underside of part the handle threads into or add a machined washer of the correct thickness. It's just a simple math problem to figure out how much to remove or add. Your qctp may have very hard parts so it might be best to just add that washer and have it sounds like about 60% less of one thread engaged than you do now. One way or another it should be easy enough. Or just drill and tap the handle in a new position like others have said. Indexing threaded parts to the correct clock position is really quite easy. You can also face off the correct amount off the start point on the screw so it then has a different clock position to where the thread starts.
Yeah, I figured a specially sized washer would do the trick. If you only knew someone with a lathe.
@@836dmar 🤣🤣
Great info! I just acquired a South Bend 9A and I'm completely brand new to machining. The lathe came with a QCTP and sure enough, the handle was bumping into the adjustment bolt on one of the tool holders. I found this video and ... my first (and successful) little project for my lathe. Thank you!
You're very welcome. Have fun with the lathe!
Fantastic video. I just got one and it’s crunchy as hell. I’m glad you worked out how to pull it apart so I didn’t have to go through the pain of discovering the left hand thread.
I'm a little late to the party. Excellent video. Mine is labeled Hess 250-222 and could never get a tool holder to fit on the front position of the post. Was able to get front tensioner in correct position after watching this video. Much appreciated.
Awesome. I'm glad it helped you out. Thanks for watching!
It's an issue that crops up from time to time, but I can't say I've ever seen anyone post a video about it before - so good job on getting it covered Stuart.
Been there done that myself since I have 2 older Phase II QCTP's myself. (AXA and BXA) I pulled them apart 20+ years ago to clean and lube them (twice... since I went too heavy on the grease the first time) and accidentally got one of them out of time. Both of mine have the same construction with the (3) multi-start threads and it took a minute or two to figure out what happened.
Glad to see there will be a video to point to now in the future when the question comes round again for the next guy. 👍
I have a Chinese knock off on my lathe and it tightens by turning the handle counterclockwise instead of clockwise as yours does. You can adjust it by re-timing the core but because it only has a double start thread you can only adjust it by 180 degrees. Since the handle ended up obstructing the left hand side of the dovetails when loosening the wedges, my solution was to make a longer handle and then heating and bending it for clearance. I installed it and then bent it after it was installed so that the bend was in the correct orientation in relation to the thread timing. Once done, I used red locktite to locate it semi permanently and it fixed my problems.
Thanks for posting this. Mine is an Heihai toolpost that looks identical to yours, and has 3 position threads too. Mine had lubricant and even a felt washer to hold oil. Anyhow, I got mine out of time, but I'm all good now. It feels a lot better with Superlube grease. Mine is about 20 years old.
Stuart - Great trouble shooting . I never took one apart - you taught me plenty . -- Jim
Thanks for this. I am getting into machining as a hobby and know very little. Yesterday I was facing off some cast iron castors and was having so much trouble with my tool post that I switched to an old style that came with my lathe.
Question: groove under the head of the triple thread screw is supposed to have a felt strand in it to keep chips out of it I am guessing. Aloris sells it for $17+ shipping. Any other sources?
Check McMaster Carr to see if they have felt washers. I know you can by the sheets of felt from them and make your own, but at that point you might as well buy the one from Aloris.
Found it on Amazon for $9
My quick change is different. It has a plunger behind each tool holder. It still used dovetails, just different locks. I'll have to dig into mine also. Good video.
Yep. That's the piston style. Let me know what's inside. I'd love to see it.
I have a piston style but no one on utube seems to have that type of tool post.
I've never had one apart so I can't help you there. You could always be the first person on TH-cam to upload a video for the piston style post!
Exactly what I was looking for to remedy my Phase 2 axa. Thanks for posting this video!
I'm glad it helped. Fun fact, genuine Aloris tool posts have right-handed threads and if you confidently turn them to the left you eventually break a very expensive part.
Nice tip . Do you ever think to do a solid compound with cheap materials ?
I haven't, but it would probably be an improvement on my Enco lathe.
I just bought a unknown year aloris cxa tool post, and the nut is not left handed. Viewers make sure you look at the threads on the bottom of the tool post to make sure if the threads are left or right. Good video though.
Since this video was made, I have had the opportunity to take apart a genuine Aloris and yes, the threads on those are right-handed. Perhaps the left-handed threads on the import was a way to avoid a patent?
I didn't even catch that this was a import. I Googled aloris tool post disassembly and this was the first video that popped up. That is a possibility. The video was a good help regardless.
Good information.
I stumbled on this on my old QCTP. Easy fix.
I have an Aloris, I assume they are similar.
Yep these are all clones of the Aloris.
The only video I have seen on this subject caused me to just now subscribe to your channel. Keep up the good work Stuart.
Thanks! I really like your username.
Steps after receiving an off-shore item: totally disassemble, clean all the crap off, de-burr where applicable, lube, assemble, adjust, tune, smash, etc. :) Hopefully use as intended.
Cheers
TRUTH!
These are all sold in the kit form if you did not know. Some assembly required.
Great information as always, thanks Stuart !
I will be doing this to mine tomorrow! Thank you, Stuart!
Good luck! Let me know how it goes.
Thanks, Stuart, for another wonderfully practical video.
The LH discovery saved me a bit of hassle, I'm sure. Appreciated.
Funny thing is, I took apart a genuine Aloris tool post a couple of weeks ago at work and they are right handed. I found that out after confidently cranking the shit out of that screw in a clockwise direction until it snapped.
@@StuartdeHaro update, my Aloris EA was indeed RH.
@@BigRedR-o7h Well I'm glad I mentioned that then.
Hmm. Well, the positions are actually, facing and turning - the one on the left hand side, and boring, the one parallel to the work. My Dorian and Aloris tool posts don’t stick up. Some of the less expensive Chinese posts somehow do have long screws. I can’t think of a good reason for it other than they may be using the same screw for different size posts.
I have an Aloris brand axa for my 13x38 lathe. I've always thought it was a little small. So I bought a cheap chinese bxa tool post like yours. You should have seen the crap and rust I found inside. 🙄 Yuchol at woodscreek workshop here on YT shows how to get rid of the sloppy way your qctp works by making a washer. The other option is to machine the depth the shoulder on the triple start tread goes down into the block. The question is how to hold that in the lathe?🤔
Thanks a ton sir for this amazing and informative video
I'm absolutely shocked it's not a cam! It does serve as a useful reminder that I have not ever lubed my QCTP, much less taking it apart. I don't know why it never occurred to me, I'm normally pretty anal about keeping machines oiled
From the comments, it sounds like there's a pretty wide variety of mechanisms out there, so who knows what's in yours.
I'm tearing into mine tomorrow! Not to throw more wrenches into this, I'm not happy where mine locks either, but unless mine has a 5 start acme thread, it's kinda in between. (e.g. it locks at about 3;30) Could be worse I suppose, but it interference-y with tailstock.
Stuart, Are the 200 series tool post all the same,? I have a tool post that came with my Grizzly G-0709 gunsmithing lath, but all the holders are listed under a 200 series as a 250-201 tool holder, so what is the 250-210 mean? Need to buy 10 to hold all my other tools. Thanks for any help and also now I know how to adjust my locking leaver and clean it.
There are different styles like the plain turning tool holder with a flat bottom or the turning/boring holder that has the v-groove for a boring bar. That's the difference between the numbers.
Sturt, I know that but what I would like to know are the sizes of the tool holders listed as to what size you have, holders need to fit over the dovetails, so for a 200 style or series listed as 250 ??
@@douglasbattjes3991 They should be the same, but I'll double check. I believe we have both at work.
All the ones we have at work are labeled 250 or just BXA. If it's listed as being a BXA series, it should fit your toolpost. Let me know if you need anything else.
Hey Stuart, your collet chuck, is that the one from bostar? If not, may I ask the manufacturer, as well as your opinion of it? Looking for a 5C setup, I don't necessarily need the ability to pass through the headstock, just shopping for inexpensive accuracy
I bought it on ebay a long time ago so I couldn't tell you the seller. I like it a lot. It's a little slow to change out collets compared to a draw tube type, but I don't have a gear head lathe or a foot brake, so it is more convenient for me.
I have a question; not sure if it will be video worthy though. I am a machining noob who bought a 12x36 import lathe last fall, which I have used to make a few things so far. Would like to try my hand at single point threading and I bought an insert tool holder and some inserts off ebay recently. Tool holder is a Kennametal STPR103B "on edge" unit, and the inserts I bought to go with it are their T02P-32R006.
The issue I have is the tip is not 60 degrees like you would expect for threading, not even 55 degrees (which would still be useful to me since I am into British cars), but something less. Not sure if these are for some purpose other than threading, or if I am just not understanding how they are supposed to be used (probably). The variety and nomenclature of insert tooling is complicated, to say the least. I can email pictures of what I have if that will help.
Before everybody hollers, "Use HSS!" I am trying to minimize grinding dust in my shop as much as possible. My old shop got absolutely nasty with it, so if I can eliminate some of the dust by buying insert tooling, that is what I am going to do. I may wind up buying one of the HSS insert kits from AR Warner which is probably what I should have done in the first place.
Anyway, thanks for the great and helpful videos.
I tried looking for those inserts and can't really find any good pics. The 32R looks like it's meant for cutting right handed threads since they also have 32L inserts. Do they have a top rake angle sloping down from the cutting edge? If so, that effectively decreases the angle of the tool. Can you send me a pic or two of the inserts? You can find my email on the About tab on my channel page, but I believe it is only accessible from the desktop TH-cam site, not the app.
@@StuartdeHaro Email sent, thanks.
Do you finally found what is the use of the screw under one of the jaw?
Nothing. I think it's just a stop.
I was going to try a spring under the front wedge to keep it from going out of time. Sometimes i can pop it up with a screwdriver, or it drops too low to put on toolholders.I have aluminum shim under the 444 toolpost holder to better match my swing.
Would you grease the jaw wedges of a chuck?
Reasonably certain you are supposed to. All of our chucks at work have zerks on them. Probably not oil because it would fling everywhere.
@@StuartdeHaro You're right : no oil! The wooden beams on my ceiling still retain traces of that mistake I made some years ago! ;-)
👍👍😎👍👍
Mine looks nothing like this one, but the handle position on mine was easily fixed by changing out the top washer to a different thickness.