You can't use those on bowls..... OR CAN I ???
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2023
- Continental spindle gouge is close to my heart as I learn turning with it..... These spindle gouges are ok to use on cross grain work however spindle roughing gouge is big NO NO and its only used for spindle roughing out.... more in depth in video..
Hope you'll find this helpfull
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M42 BOWL GOUGES - neureiter.idevaffiliate.com/i...
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IRONS SHEAR SCRAPER - neureiter.idevaffiliate.com/i...
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I've never heard of a better sum up of a catch than " it won't be pleasant." That says it all. Great video as always. Would love another video on the skew as it is becoming my favorite tool.
Thanks for all I've learned.
th-cam.com/video/p8dLBraFmhc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=_CDTKGJiLiJ4SPZP
Here is my video on using skews
Nicely done Tomislav, it is great to see someone else on TH-cam using a continental spindle gouge. They have to be one of the most versatile tools we use. I had to laugh when you were talking about turning before bowl gouges as I remember that time as well. The look on new turners faces when you say it can be quite funny.
Shay
Indeed ,here unfourtually we just didn't have acces to bowl gouges although there were invented 20-30 years ago... But nessesaty does make you creative on using other tools
@@tomislavtomasicwoodturning I remember it well and no chucks, every bowl had screw marks in the bottom.
Shay
You have increased my courage and understanding in freehand spindle gouge sharpening and use. THANK YOU.
Very much glad to hear that 🤗
cant wait for the rest , skews scare me, Thanks ,Bryan
Thank you Bryan, very soon
Very helpful video Tomislav. Very interesting to see the use of the Continental gouge. I have a small (1/2") continental gouge I got when I first got into turning; really haven't used it much, it seems the other gouges are more versatile -- will need to check these out again. More interesting to me, my Dad was given some Craftsman gouges some years ago. After seeing this video, it appears that the flutes are continental styled gouge flutes. May need to re-visit them to see if they have any utility -- they have always seemed to be fairly cheaply made, but maybe there is some redeeming value to them based on what you have shown in this video.
I should add that I just got the chance to view this video; I must have missed it when it came out.
Many videos got missed or haven't shown to viewers timeline,not sure why.
If you get bored there is 360 videos😂 to watch.
Thank you very much for watching,its a time investment which I know today is luxury...
If tools you have are carbon steel then its better to keep them as memory, but if they are HSS then go ahed and used them. They can be really valueble tools
Tomislav, you are an excellent teacher. Your presentation is superb. I'm really looking forward to your scew video. I feel that it is my weak point.
Thank you very much, I hope to be able to help out 🤗
Tomislav, I do need a small continental gouge for my toys... I am posting a link to Ian "Robbo" Robertson, a turner from Australia about "Why you don't use a spindle gouge on bowls'. First time I watched it, I really focused on a comment at the end of the video about how he was out in the shop for a few hours the previous night and couldn't get a good catch. So, watched it a bunch of times. His catch happens at about 2:45. If you watch it closely, when he is not getting the catch, he is doing a typical bevel rubbing peeling type cut. What causes the catch is not the end grain. As long as the bevel is rubbing, and if you try this, do it at 100 or less rpm, it is a controlled cut. When he gets the catch, he extends out a long way off the tool rest, and then the fatal mistake, he raises the handle. This causes the sharp edge of the gouge to be pointed up into the spinning wood. Stuart Batty is one who says the end grain causes the catch. Well, since the end grain comes around twice each revolution, you would not be able to turn more than 1/2 a rev before you get a catch. I figure this is similar to a technique I see some turners use where when going down the inside of a bowl, they are essentially doing a peeling cut with the wing. If they come off the bevel at all, they get a huge catch. I think you refer to this when talking about the continental style gouges on the inside of the bowl. I do need one of those in my arsenal.... Here is a link to the video. His catch happens at about 2:45.
th-cam.com/video/IOhHeyoZLaY/w-d-xo.html
If you ever want to take apart your Vicmark chucks to clean them, he has the best video out there for that.
I've seen that video and love his videos, Richard suggest him in one of his videos, and its a great turner.... Thank you for watching and comment sir
Well explained. Continental spindle gouges can be used on cross-grain work as long as you are experienced. You'll normally see warnings & cautions on the manufacturer's websites saying they are not to be used on cross-grain work for the reason that they are weak at the tang and can cause injury if you get a catch. In the old days, all turning tools were forged this way and they were used for all types of turning. I have gouges from the late 1800s that are over 60mm wide. I still prefer a bowl gouge for bowls just because of rigidity and normally they are made from much better steel. Thanks for the explanation!
Thank you very much for watching and comment, agree with you, but there is on the way a hand forged tool ,still made today by company,so really looking forward to try it out.....
@@tomislavtomasicwoodturning You're welcome! Both Sorby & Crown still make forged spindle gouges. Packard Woodworks sells a 1-1/4" (31.75mm) wide one that's forged out of M2. As far as I know, they are all HSS. What's nice about many bowl gouges is that you can get many great powdered metals such as M42 & CPM10V. I worked in the metal stamping field/tool & die as an engineering manager and I can tell you the CPM10V is one of the best steels out there. Pricey though. Look forward to your next video!
@@JamesBondDZero7Mi6 thank you sir, I've been told about this forged tool that it is m2, however due to all the processes it holds an edge longer and sharper, so I do look forward to test that
Bonjour et merci pour toutes les explications données.Pour un apprenti tourneur comme moi,ce n'est vraiment pas évident de faire un aiguisage sur les gouges et je bouffe plus de matière qu'autre chose.Pourtant il faut bien le faire pour pouvoir arriver à travailler sur un bois.Alors merci à vous de partager ce savoir,c'est primordial pour un débutant.👍
Glad to hear that sir and thank you for watching
The best explanation and visual on technique on use of the gouges I've seen yet. Thank you.
Glad to hear that ☺️ thank you for watching
As usual, your explanations and video positions are VERY . Keep on the good woodturning!!!
Thank you for feedback and watching
Great lesson Tomislav.
Thank you Jack
Years ago, we had a nice new woodworking store, around the corner from the one that has been around for decades. Taught classes, but not always terribly competent. Got some nice tools and excellent wood, though. They had a 2 inch Benjamin's Best roughing-out gouge at a great price. These are for roughing out logs or architectural turnings. Great for urns, at least at for initial shaping. Pick up one and take it to the cashier.
Cashier: "Oh, you can make big bowls with this!"
Me: "That would be very dangerous. You should know that."
I think they got tired of the store business and closed. Miss the timber prices there.
Excellent instructional video, as we've come to expect.
Greg
Thank you Greg very much, sorry to hear that store closed , thankfully you got something out of them while there worked.... 😀
Great, rich content that is well presented.
So nice to see hands-on demonstrations versus talking heads.
Thank you very much
Отличное видео, Томислав! Продолжай! Прекрасное пособие не только для начинающих токарей. всё конкретно, понятно, доступно. С нетерпением жду продолжения. И насколько я для себя понял - всё зависит от заточки. Точить можно и топором, надо только правильно его заточить. Ну и, конечно, навыки. Практика и ещё раз практика! Спасибо тебе.
Thank you very much 🤗
That was very good, Tomislav. Well explained. I cannot believe how frequently I see posts on Reddit, or elsewhere, of roughing gouge misuse. And get these complainers to use their skew. Ridicule them about being afraid of a piece of steel, if that helps. :)
Joking aside, thank you for confirming what I thought about some older tools I inherited. The continental was new to me, but bevels and cutting edges are the same principle, so I sharpened it and gave it a try. Nothing surprising and it will be a fine backup if I need an edge to get past sand, or metal in a piece of wood. Keep up the good work.
Thank you Jay very much
Excellent class on spindle gouges, including the warnings of using a roughing gouge on cross grain work. Thank you for sharing your expertise!
Thank you, glad you liked it
Extremely instructive, thank you.
Thank you
Very many thanks. I've been addicted to selected channels for many months and this has been the explanation that I have been looking for. I shall have much more confidence in the continental gouge's potential from now on. Also thoroughly enjoying your 4 way collaboration.
Thank you sir very much 🤗
great lesson thankstomislav, i learned heaps.
Glad to hear that sir 😉
Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Looking forward to more educational content.
Thank you 😀
🕶hello Tomislav. Thank you for the time and effort. Another fine video.
Thank you Steven
good explanation, you continue to provide real value!
Glad to hear that 🤗
Thank you Tom for this excellent study about the different kinds of spindle gouges, their uses and the way for sharpening and honing. A really great video! 😊👍
Thank you very much,glad you liked it
Very well explained - thankyou.
Thank you
Well done and look forward to the skew video
Thank you, me as well 😀
Thank you for the very informative video and explanations Tomislav! I was recently given about 20+ older wood turning chisels from a lady whose husband passed away a couple years ago. They are quite old and I think that they must all be continental gouges of some kind because they all look like the original one you use. Looking forward to this series of videos, Thanks again, Wayne
Thank you Wayne, for watching and comment
Really well done. Thanks! I'm trying to learn more about turning before starting & these sorts of videos (but this one specifically) is exactly what I'm looking for.
Really glad to hear that, that is the purpose for this videos
Thank you so very much for sharing your expertise. I’m learning a lot from watching your videos.
Glad to hear that very much 🤗
Thank you so much for this video. It is really helpful. I will be watching this again as I learn the craft. My lathe arrives today!
Awsome Rachel, I'm really happy for you to start on your journey
I've been having lots of fun on the lathe. Your videos have really helped, thank you. It is such fun! I've been doing spindle work so far, (my chucks are a Christmas present) and have made a mallet and am in the process of matching candlesticks. Thank you again for the truly informative and entertaining videos.@@tomislavtomasicwoodturning
Thanks for clarifying the types of gouges. It’s been a little confusing for me. I definitely like the way you explain the different types and uses of the gouges. Thanks again, looking forward to seeing the next video, great job. Thank you
Thank you sir 🤗
Your work is always impress 😃😃
Thank you
great vidoes keep them comeing thanks
Will try 😅 thank you
Very nice job Tomislav. I am always hearing people say that you never want to use a spindle gouge for cross grain work. I used the continental style spindle gouges to turn bowls for more than 40 years. Last year I bought my first bowl gouge and fell in love. I now prefer the bowl gouge for most of my bowl work, but I still grab the spindle gouges for certain things and probably always will.
That is the real point of this video, continental gouges were used for ages however round shaft spindle gouges and bowl gouges are evolution and works much better, but as similar as you,I didn't have acces to bowl gouges so continental were only one I used...
Thank you very much for watching and support what I do
clearing some misunderstanding. I don't have any spindle gouge, but now I know what to look for. Thank you for patiently covering details.
No worries, thank You for watching
thank you . that was a grate explanation !
Thank you for watching
Really great demonstration! I'm running out to the shop right now to sharpen my spindle gouge. I have been struggling with it and Now I know why.
Super glad to hear that and its such a great tool to have
Very nice Great information Thanks.
Thank you very much
Brilliant, thank you nice explanation 👍
No worries,thank You for watching and comment
Excellent demonstration and description of spindle gouges! This is definitely one of the best teaching videos I have seen! Your videos help make the learning curve much more manageable. Thank you for your time sharing your expertise!
The only thing I would ask: Would you address the height of the tool rest with the various tools, do you work over center, on center or below center ?? Thank you🤠🇨🇱
Thank you sir for kind words 😀
I'll try to do my best on height and other stuff that are not so visible in the video ...
Thank you for suggestion
Thanks! Been using the spindle roughing just for that, and the Spindle gouges tonrough out bowls when necessary. Just as Mr Raffan and you are doing. Works perfectly when you follow simple protocole.
Indeed Boris, thank you for watching and comment
Thanks great video
Thank you 😉
Great demonstration Tommy
Maybe some insight on tool rest height and distance from wood when you get to the skew chisel. I have had times where I get spiral cuts…not sure how else to explain this issue. But I’ll wait for that demonstration at a later date
Thanks for all you do buddy 👍
Thank you very much sir, thank you for suggestion and I'll do my best to cover it all in video series
J’aime bien tes vidéos bravo 👍👏
Thank you😉
excellent video my friend, and very informative, the roll in method i think will be a game changer for me as i do get a lot skids when starting a cut, still learning. And great skills with the sharpening, it’s not easy, i tried and failed and invested in a sorby pro edge for ease. Expensive but very good. Still not convinced you will convert me to the skew, but i will give my best shot😂.
I think I'll convert you 😅 you'll see that its accually relative easy and safe to use....thank you once again for watching and support what I do
Thanks so much for the information. Please cover tool rest height and speed, i feel i am guessing until i stumble upon what works best. I have never been taught but have been turning for many years and have made some beautiful things but have no confidence in what i am doing. Look forward to your next video on the Skew.
Thank you for suggestion, I'll cover more of those things in series and hopefully it will help out
Thank you very much, this video has helped me a lot. I was wondering why my U-Roughing gouge doesn't perform as i would expect from videos on youtube. I will try the ~40° edge first thing tomorrow.
I still feel that i have a lot to learn in terms of sharpening my tools because it takes a lot of time to take off wood from the piece. I mainly work with beech and oak, both of which are very dry, so maybe thats a factor as well.
Glad to help out, try it out, there could be approch as well that you don't have a cut as it should....
Shooting your videos in 4K so you can later zoom in during editing is much more work for you, Tomislav. But, wow, we can sure see the action at the end of the tool better. Thank you!
That is the point, to really see fine details,its not as much more work as that the files are 3x bigger and takes more time for phone to process that😉 but its worth it😀 thank you for watching
Its funny because the spindle roughing gouge is still very common for bowl turning here in Brazil, its used on its side with the flute facing you in a push cut. I hate it.
Uff it can be done but not the best tool for cross grain work.... Is the a option for you to get atleast regular spindle gouges?
@@tomislavtomasicwoodturning I got a good deal on two Bowl gouges a while back, guess its the opposite of what you an Raffan do
Bloody excellent 👍
Thank you sir
Thanks for clearing up what a continental gouge can and cannot do. How does the size of the bowl affect the tool you select? Could you use the bigger continental on a larger bowl?
Thank you very much for watching and support, I would not use that big Continental gouge on big bowls, the smaller one is faster and takes more wood of, but on bigger bowls its just easier today to grab bowl gouge, they are sort of evolution from spindle gouges and they do job a little bit better....
If you are like me only had acces to continental gouges,then I would use those.... Or round shaft spindle gouges as they are much easier again😉
Hope that makes sense 😅
Thank you so much for all this information. It has taken my turning and sharpening to another level. Do you need to remove the burl after you have sharpened the spindle or roughing gouge? I noticed you did not make a mention of it.
Glad I could help out ☺️
Nope , I don't remove burr on gouges as pretty much as they contact wood it will be gone anyway.
Great video explaining the continental gouges. I have a couple of them and have never been able to find a good video explaining their usage or their sharpening so I under-utilise them, until today. 👍👍
I noticed you sharpened the non-hss chisel on your cbn wheel - I thought cbn was only for HSS. No issues for you? I'm yet to find a definitive answer on that topic.
Thank you very much, in regards cbn and carbon steel tools, I've heard that you should not use cbn for them but my other wheel is just too coars , so far no damage😅
Most of the people that make videos for You Tube say you can’t use spindle gouges on bowls. The only people that I have seen using them is you and Richard Raffin.
Ok Tomislav, you've almost got me convinced to buy a 1/2" spindle gouge for my bowl turning. My turning is almost exclusively twice turned bowls and I use only salvaged trees from my area. Can I rough turn bigger bowls such as 12 inches or larger with the 1/2" spindle gouge? My go-to tool for this have been 5/8" bowl gouge but my current gouge is worn down and needs replacement. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and talent. Stuart
Hello Stuart, for those big bowls,stick with bowl gouge,on smaller bowl you can use spindle gouge, If you have the means,buy one on round shaft and see how you like it..... There is a bit of learning curve using spindle gouge as there is little different approch....but I'll covered that in one of the next videos
Tomislav where you based, country please. Can we buy Gurtools through you yet ? I am in Australia. Cheers
I'm in Croatia, I don't sell GURTOOL Tools, I do want that but they still work on full range of tools, there scrapers should be really good as so skews... So hopefully in near future.
Did you send them email about shipping to Australia?
I've enjoyed your videos and have learned much, but on this issue I think there has been much confusion about what the controversy actually is. The question should not be "can you use a spindle gouge on cross grain work?" but "should you use a "tang mounted" spindle gouge on cross grain work from a safety perspective?" The confusion starts with using the term "spindle gouge." Those who warn against this practice should restate the warning as follows: For safety reasons, you should not use any square tang mounted tool on cross grain work. The forces imparted on a tool when cross grain turning are oscillating. Tension is higher when cutting end grain and less when cutting face grain. Under these oscillating forces flexion will occur in the tool particularly at its weakest point. This cycle of tension and release and flexion and return occurs twice with each rotation of a cross grain piece; cross grain followed by face grain and then again. At 1000rpm, that is 2000 cycles of oscillation, flexion and relief per minute of cutting. The next problem is the shape of square tapered tang. It has corners. The handle supports the tapered end with the bulkier, more rigid blade of the tool just in front of the handle. The tang is thinner and less massive than the blade in contrast to a continuous cylindrical tool has equal or greater mass in the handle of the tool. Where is the tension and flexion of a tang mounted tool going to focus? Right at the point where the tang exits the handle and joins the blade. Metal under flexion will work harden and fatigue crack in corners first. It is similar to bending a piece of metal back and forth until it work hardens, cracks, and eventually breaks. Any tang mounted tool will have this issue given enough time. A tool machined from a solid rod of HSS will not have this issue. Fatigue cracking once initiated will migrate and eventually weaken the tool at its most vulnerable point, where the tang exits the handle and joins the blade. A break at this point could be very dangerous and could result in serious injury. I have no issue with spindle gouges machined from HSS round stock on cross grain work when properly ground as you showed. I personally would not use a tang mounted gouge on cross grain work, because it is inherently unsafe, even for a highly skilled turner. Even on the smoothest cross grain piece with the sharpest tool in the hands of a skilled turner, the oscillating forces of tension and flexion are still there and focused on the weak point of the tang. Enough said. Love your work. You are a great artist and skilled craftsman. Thank You.
Could be, noone every really point out the tang, mosty just the name spindle gouge.... Thank you for nice clarificastion and watching
Looks like you have the answers written on your left hand.
? Not sure , if you say so👍
I've never heard the term "continental" but that style of gouge with a thin blade and tang I've always known as a "roughing" gouge. I've never seen a flat stamped gouge with a fingernail tip like you have here. Must be a European thing? I've always been told the danger using the gouges with a reduced tang on cross grain is that the different resistance between the side and cross grain over time can distress the tang and risks it breaking.
They have been around since woodturning was a thing. Forging was the only way any of those tools were able to be produced. Here in Ohio, I have many from the late 1800s that are as wide as 60mm or wider. Continental was the British term but the German's called them German Spindle gouges. Forging is limited to steel types so they are all HSS unlike bowls gouges that can be out of great powdered metals such as M42 & CPM10V. Most people use them because of lower cost but I'd question that because of the robustness & steel quality Vs. bowl gouges.
Indeed there can be some issues with different ressistans but there were used all the time before bowl gouges....