My definition of Decadence is when someone feels the need to shell out 50 bucks for a 1-foot square plot of land in Scotland or who knows where so he/she can be declared a noble and bolster a sagging sense of self and purpose in life.
$50 is not enough for decadence. Decadence is when you pay thousands of dollars for a virtual plot of land in a game that does not yet exist. THAT is decadence. He should get some Star Citizen sponsorships.
"Once the moral code of society is based around popularity, there is no recourse to actions being ridiculous." If there was ever a better summation of the culture of Instagram and TikTok, I haven't seen one.
When your speech is oppressed: [Redacted] When someone else's speech is oppressed: "Once the moral code of society is based around popularity, there is no recourse to actions being ridiculous." If there was ever .... This fits many right wing fans.
@@menjolno Nice non argument, no one is oppressing your speech, in fact thats the problem, you oppress the speech of others and people like you threaten others using your narcissistic social climbing to force everyone else to think like you. you aren't a victim, but I wish you would become one.
“All empires fall, eventually. But why? It’s not for lack of power. In fact, it seems to be the opposite. Their power lulls them into comfort. They become undisciplined. Those who had to earn power are replaced by those who have known nothing else. Who have no comprehension of the need to rise above base desires." - Max Barry, Lexicon
we should thank the heavens that the powerful eventually become decadent and falls... that way other people have a chance at the game... else we would all still be ruled by Babylonians or Sumerians right now...
@@therearenoshortcuts9868 Personally, I find the idea of empires abhorrent in general. Having said that, I do think it is important to be strong to ward off other would-be empires.
Narcissism and hedonism are so destructive. I'm not even Christian, though I have an open mind, but I think God (or maybe even just a higher power generally) is critical to a healthy, prosperous society (as long as humans are human). As we've moved away from God, we've just slid further into narcissism and hedonism and "me me me" attitudes, and I could point to countless things as a result that signify a degenerate, weak, destructive society. My 18-20 year old self would've scoffed at this and called 39 year old me ridiculous and full of crap, but it's just something I've come to the conclusion of after paying attention to things and keeping an open mind, and trying to be objective.
I think both homes and children are assets and liabilities in the sense that you must take care of / fund both but they both offer immense value (one monetary one social emotional/human) but I see your point.
@@TriZaba I myself am 19 and have a wife and a kid, I don't have much, just a house and a 2012 Lada (i live in Russia btw) and am a university student, my only viable income is through my stipendii and my language tutor work and occasional interborder trade, that is it, I am a big time major league liability, i'm a kid myself, but I am under no conditions going to subject myself to the system and live in my basement and let my wife be a wageslave (she's a good programmer btw) until our 30s just to start paying our taxes on our inflated incomes.
This episode is sponsored by Established Titles! You can buy a piece of land in Scotland with your name on it today! It's great for bragging rights to your friends, and you can put it on your credit card, you tinder bio, and it makes a great gift.
@@cgiunta6542 Yep, Kant as well Alternative is Aristotle In Plato power is control over people and the totalitarian state is God In Aristotle power is control over nature and at the same time nature is God Bacon (Aristotelian): Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed So there is a natural order (Dao) for us to discover in the world and in ourselves
Growing up close to the poverty line, I witnessed this phenomenon a lot. People in the middle class and up sort of wish not to acknowledge the real world and just live in their little bubbles.
@@shivandragon1651 This idea is why things like affordable housing are not done in blue states that push for these policies more. The idea is to support the idea but just not in their backyard.
@@charless3484 it's not even that, it's the disconnect they have to work, it's insane I have several friends who just expect things to get better without actually putting the work into it's getting better. Or not understanding what it's like to litteraly struggle to pay rent and get to work and feed yourself because everything is just getting fucking ridiculously expensive due to inflation.
In fairness, Circassian beauties were thought to be the pinnacle of any/all slave girls, so they themselves are a good example of decadence outside of any particular context. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_beauty
The ottomans catch flack for that but nobody mentions that 97% of circassions were killed or expelled by Russians and many actually sought refuge with the Ottomans
"If we exclude how morally wrong the factors involved were, the conquistadors really did fuck" is probably one of the funniest historical observations ever made.
Well he’s not wrong, I mean think about literally 1 out of every 2 Latin Americans has substantial Spanish European ancestry. Which heavily implies that their is a high likelihood of having parents who both have Spanish ancestors going back just a couple hundred years at the most distant. And those genes keep being reinforced and proliferating amongst the succeeding generations to the point that successfully breeding people of predominantly native meso-American ancestry has become a statistical impossibility.
They did -- and with the native women. Whereas the English brought to the New World something the Spanish generally did not do -- their wives! One big reason for the superiority of the United States in this hemisphere, though no doubt the chattering class's informal militias (antifa, cancel mobs) will call me 'racist' for saying so.
@@neongenesisevangelion587 Them Spaniards and Portugeese clapped them brown cheeks 🤣😂 Now I'm remembering the chick from Eldorado cartoon. Same probably happened in North-Western India, if you are conqueror it's free real estate
I was just in LA last week. It's so weird and sad to see high end restaurants and brand boutiques along the beaches of Santa Monica, while laying on the pristine parks just next to them are scores of homeless people and druggies digging for discarded food out of the trash.
A lot of homeless people are exported to blue states by red states, since that's the red state substitute to actually trying to solve the problem. Personally I would try to emulate Finland and their method of solving homelessness, but that means California must become more left-wing than it is currently, not less
Something that I'm noticing is that loyalty is generally dying. The dynamic of relationships is changing. More traditionally, you would be a bit standoffish and suspicious of outsiders, they hadn't proven themselves to be trustworthy or beneficial yet. However, the average person is encouraged to instead be open to all newcomers, perhaps even exclusively so. Whereas previously a person who had proven themselves to be loyal would have also proven themselves to be worthy of your defense and support, now the paradigm is flipped to where every newcomer, every stranger, is deserved utmost respect and deference up until the point that they say or do anything that is contrary to your sensibilities. Instead of being cautious about who you let into your life and then going to bat for them once they have proven that they are worth it, even if they mess up, we are encouraged to accept every single person in the world so long as they don't mess up.
You’re talking about immigrants, we get it Seriously people on an individual level are still guarded and need time to build trust with each other. That hasn’t changed. The only way your essay makes sense is if you’re talking about immigrants as a whole and the shift away from outright bigotry against them. Just say you’re scared of foreigners lol.
@@___.51 and that's perfectly fine to be suspicious of people from a completely alien culture as they might have belief systems antithetical to YOUR civilization.
That has probably a lot to do with how since 1913, modern EU-27's population has only increased by around 60%, while US population has more than tripled. In terms of actual GDP per capita growth, Europe and US were evenly matched in the last 110 years (basically an identical 6.5 fold increase in GDP per capita from 1913 to 2016 for US, France and Germany). Unlike Europe, US had and still has a shitload of room for growth in terms of useful land; its population would need to be 800 million to have a comparable density to present-day EU.
It is an intriguing thought that decadence can be reversed, or at least delayed. Europe in the 1500’s was the example in the video, and it also offers space expansion as a possible fix. How closely linked to that delay was the discovery of a new frontier in the 1500’s? I can see the same pattern occur again in the initial settling of the 13 colonies, which attracted a more barbarous type from a Europe showing early signs of decadence in the late 1600’s early 1700’s, proceeding rapidly to the civilizing movement around the American founding. Then again in the Westward Expansion, which attracted again a much rougher people followed by a culture of civilization from the 1880’s up through WWII. And now space appears like it could provide another frontier to delay decadence. Is it possible that decadence is caused simply by a society losing its expansion momentum? The values then shifting from honesty and problem solving on a dangerous frontier to manipulation and status seeking in a sheltered environment?
Space Expansion is unlikely compared to ocean/polar expansion. The Earth’s gravity well is a bitch. The ISS costs billions just to maintain 7 people, and each Dragon seat is only accessible to the ultra-wealthy ($55mil/seat). Costs have only gone down modestly. Once we develop algal aquaculture, we can see a massive expansion in aquaculture and the marine economy as a viable basis for a wider Marine colonization effort can be made.
The "Downfall" thesis has haunted European writing since the time of the roman empire. Europe today is a circular firing squad held in check by a mutual contempt of what happened last time and how it ended. The definitive movie describing the end of the world wars (the second of which was urged on by Spengler) was named, very ironically and knowingly, by it's German filmmakers "Der Untergang". Yes the most extraordinary nod mixed with the utmost disrespect. This is where the extraordinary unity around Russian invasion of Ukraine comes from - everyone of us knows what it means. The wheel spins again, and when it, inevitably, gets out of rational control, it will crush tens of million. Military careers and those in the world of security provision, local and national, have spiked massively in the millennial generation.
I think a good way to sum up this video is as society becomes overly comfortable people more or less become lazy on everything and society inevitably collapses
@@1mol831 kinda like the ending of fight club after all the financial building blown up after tyler durden starts his great reset which fight club is a movie very much themed on decadence and how people are unhappy with it
It's important to note that urban elites aren't in their cities the way most commoners are. I'm from Southern Brooklyn, and it's a lot different from the bubbles the elite live in. The elite are relegated to three neighborhoods for the most part, with the rest of the city being as different, from those bubbles as any other area of the country. There also have been wars one by urban societies against rural ones (look at every barbarian invasion that failed). It's about the isolation of the elite more then it is urbanization.
Whatifalthist is constantly insinuating that American politics are between the rural poor and urban elites. The truth is the opposite: the average Democrat voter is poorer than the average Republican voter.
As a former New Yorker, I am curious. Which are the three neighborhoods where the elite live? In my day, it was Upper East (the only place you'll find a Republican/old money), Upper West (relatively new money/establishment Dems) and Brooklyn Heights (far-left technocrats/hipsters). Has there been a change?
One of the most interesting things to me is how humans are always throughout history deeply “religious” about something. Traditionally in the West it’s been Christianity, but these days there’s a religious fervor for secularism, liberalism, social justice, personal political leanings. Many worship at the altar of the state or worship celebrities as idols. The “Cult of Ariana Grande,” the “Cult of Taylor Swift”, the “Cult of Elon Musk.” Celebrity worship has turned into a weird neo-pagan religion where many choose a patron deified human to worship. There’s also the rise of astrology, tarot, crystals, and many New Age beliefs. In short, humans will always show a religious devotion to something. And I find that fascinating. The problem comes when the religious devotion is to something that is self-sabotaging. Worshipping Ariana Grande is a waste of time and energy and erodes self-esteem. There’s no use in many modern forms of religious devotion. There’s no truth to be extracted. And that’s part of why we’ve run into decadence.
@@Cbd_7ohm no, it means religion played a really important role in evolution of mankind. It must play a very big role, otherwise it doesn't make sense. Heck, even chimps have something similar to quasi-religious rituals
Religion and all other beliefs are simply a means of rationalizing the irrational world. Whether they are true or not, it doesn't matter as long as people have a justification.
Are you even a whatifalthist viewer if you don't know that while Europe's share of the world economy has declined, the US has remained a stable quarter?
Rome's fall was pretty much inevitable once the Romans started relying more and more on German mercenaries rather than their own people to defend its borders. This pattern was later repeated with the Byzantines. The abandonment of the Theme system and the preference of foreign mercenaries (compounded by civil wars and political turmoil) led to its eventual decline and gradual fall as well.
You are echoing the historical analysis of Ibn Khaldoun that Rudyard mentioned in the video. He wrote that decadent societies start to disdain and fear their populations and instead turn to slave or mercenary armies. He called the measure of a society’s virtue or decadence “Asabiyyah” if you want to read about it.
@@grahamturner2640 The Themes were military, administrative districts where the government granted lands to peasants who in turn provided troops to Constantinople, while also being able to use the wealth generated from said lands as part of their pay and to equip themselves. These soldier/farmers were placed under a Strategos, who had both military and civilian authority in the Theme. It began in the 7th century after Arab conquests stripped the Byzantines of most of their productive lands and forced them to make reforms to their military and economy in order to tie soldiers to their lands, giving them an incentive to fight to defend their lands. It fell out of use in later centuries as emperors became more reliant on Varangian and Latin mercenaries to fight their wars.
But why did Rome come to rely on the foederati for defense? It was because the patrician class had accumulated most of the wealth of the empire, and since they didn't pay taxes, there was no money to raise new legions when necessary. Were the patricians stupid? No, they were consolidating their own local power. Also, they figured that even if Rome would fall, they could use their wealth to retain their power and influence in the states created by the Germanic peoples. And you know what? They were right: most of the nobility in France, Spain and Italy came from Roman patricians (even if they constantly claimed themselves to be Goths).
Are we seriously going to ignore the fact that both of those empires fell in civile war each time the emperor died (or 3 in the case of the Byzantine)? Or the fact that a large portion of the european provinces of the western part of the empire became unproductive and economically worthless after the climate change of the 3° century? Or the powerful enemies of the Byzantine?
We are definitely in the decadent stage right now and I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. Most people in the west nowadays are too focused on doing what feels good that they never stop to try and think about what is good.
@@cullenkehoe5184 life in the Roman empire was poorer than in the barbarian tribes. if you were drarfted to the army you were effectively dead, there was no social mobility and tons of slaves, extremely high taxes, practically no free time, populations outside of Italy were constantly exploited and leadership changed every year and always tried to keep power instead of fixing anything. if you tried to conscript Italians they would just rebel instead. Rome's fall wasn't decadence, it was not worth defending, the life for their citizens was hell in the end. why would you be proud of a country that treats you like a slave?
@@eVill420 thats what people forget about the fall of the western empire, it had more population than the east but it was poorer, life was awful and they relied on barbarian mercs to do the job, emperors couldn't do reforms as the reforms that came after the crisis of the 3rd century crippled Rome into a proto feudal state, giving everyone citizenship was also a mistake, now there was no carrot on the stick, only a stick, the reason why Iberia was taken over so easily was because the people didn't really care, you couldn't be a poorer peasant so it could only go up. Western Rome in its last days was feudalism at its worst, thankfully for all romaboos the easy would survive for another 1000 years, dying the same way, feudalism cripples empires, and that 4th crusade essentially disarmed( and I mean it) a man who could only use his arms, but he could use them really well
@@grahamturner2640 In a lot of his videos he ends up making some comment about Brazil stating how it is in many ways an aberration from his comparisons. For example, Brazil is expected to become a powerful nation sometime this century (it's already grouped with other currently industrializing countries to form BRICS), yet at the same time Brazil also has a lot of poverty and slums. Or another way is that South American countries have borders that in his words "make too much sense", because one impetus for change across history is border conflict, yet because that doesn't really happen in South America, Brazil could have easily industrialized in the 1900s but didn't because there was no strong social force to do it, although that applies more so to Argentina. He's also jokingly stated that Brazil needs to stop disappointing him because Brazil is simultaneously doing really good and really bad, meaning there isn't really anything for him to talk about that can be generalized to create examples from like he can about 18th century France or 19th century Africa.
As a descendant of Scottish nobility, maybe I should get a title. On the other hand, I'm an American and thus against the concept of nobility. Then again, I do love trees.
Its technically treason to accept a foreign title, such as "Lord" on behalf of a foreign nation, as a U.S. citizen. Which I know is an obsolete law, but still...
I think your observation about pre-1940s, westerners were more interested in foreign cultures is absolutely true. Listening to old radio shows, the programs assume that the average listener knew not-so-basic Geography - the Llhasa pass, straits of Malacca, etc....and exotic locations were clearly attractive to audiences - they could never make such assumptions on modern tv programs...
I remember reading Ben hur I needed to constantly look up Wallace's references to Levantine culture. Wild that that was just to be expected of an average American back then
@@aguspuig6615 well technically the Soviets was extremely decadent, if we use the definition in this presentation here which is more about diverging from reality and truth than it is necessarily about luxury. That said, you rarely hear people actually call the USSR _decadent,_ per se, and more so oppressive, cruel, vicious, soulless, inhuman, Kafkaesque, etc. That said, of course in the real world people or political entities are not cartoon characters, in the sense that one and only one quality pervades all of their attributes. A society can be largely healthy but have a few decadent tendencies, and conversely just because a society is overall quite decadent doesn't mean that literally every single part of it is (e.g. Even when the ancient Chinese or Roman Empires were literally collapsing on themselves there were still pockets of competence and strength throughout, it's just that they were balanced out _on the net_ many times over by all the other shit)
The difference is marginal. All three serve the system's whims, and are largely just entertainers to a big show. What you'd want, is kids who want to be electricians, farmers, inventors, builders. But do imagine the kids who answers "When I grow up, I want to spend 25% of my time filling out grants, 25% building up my social network, 25% on office duties; 24% on proper formatting, peer review and so forth, and the last 1% on trynig to figure out the universe and doing experiments to see whether I'm on to something"
Decadence is not exclusively about urban societies. I've read that the romans wrote that selling wine was the easiest way to passify the german frontier, and some powerful tribes supposedly even banned import of alcohol
as a westerner i would say decadence is the very word that describes the wests down fall its everywhere from our day to day lives of social disconnect and none stop consumerism to our political elite who idle on issues that threaten to ruin our world like global warming or the new rise of autocratic regimes to be quite frank its sad we have fallen this far but hopefully we can pull ourselves out of the mud and dust our selves of i chose to be optimistic for the future how ever hard it may be
Yeah, we need to stop over-consumerism and global warming. But we dont need to start killing each other or start oppressing minorities, which is what far-right ideology means
@@adorabasilwinterpock6035 nothing i said had anything to do with killing anybody or oppressing minorities ? and i am not trying to start argument what right wing ideology aside from radical fascism says we should just start killing each other and oppressing minorities hell not even fascism as bad as it may be preaches that we should just start killing each other
Actually I think the lack of a common enemy is the cause of Western decadence. Back when the Soviet Union was around there was an opposite anchor that channeled energies into productive activities like the Space Race. Now that extra funding just pads politician pockets.
If you think this is really that bad, you should try traveling or actually having a real struggle in life.. people who live through thr world wars, great depression, real struggle around the world where people can't eat or drink clean water everyday or feel safe, that's real struggle.. not this made up BS people who live in the US and haven't seen real struggle think
Well at least we can party like crazy, then go to other countries that are tired of parting, getting money and coming back to live in brazil with more money and thus more partying 🤑😎
@@steroidbaggins2936 isso aconteceu msm?? pqp qual foi a razão? eu tenho lido mt ultimamente sobre como os argentinos têm um complexo de superioridade, mas na moral n consigo ver de onde isso vem sendo q eles são pobres pra cacete como o resto do continente kkkkkk
I'm curently reading about the West's decline, written by a romanian writer who's been living in Paris for some time. There was a conversation in the book about how the West should create a "science" out of decadence and decline, not to prevent it, as it is too late for the West, but to leave some ground rules for the next society to know of what to stay away from. Thought it was interesting Matei Visniec, The last days of the West is the name of the book
Indeed, leave some sort of documentation of what happen, because now, history is being re written, and all is being cancel, leave documents aobut history and what happen
It’s probably inevitable though. Cause the new society would start off then get progressively worse and worse, get rid of history, not listen to the lessons from the one before it, then it would also crash. Just look at what’s happening now. Just my opinion I could be wrong obviously.
I can't overstate how impressed I am with your content and presentation. You provide hope for a man that was ready to abandon all that I had left for where we are collectively speeding towards so apathetic and recklessly. Perhaps there will come the rise of a few that are keen to set brushfires in the minds of his fellow man. Those hopefully will turn into the passions that burn bright and warm for generations to come that will need these fires for the darkness that just is. Cheers young man. You should be very proud of your work. It's outstanding, incredibly grounded for a twenty something year old, wise beyond your years, and also thought provoking for someone twenty or so years your senior. I feel as though I was a lot like you at that age, though not as well read, not nearly as ambitious, and certainly not as far reaching with my intellect but, I gather we both share commonality in seeming out of place for knowing and for caring. Cheers to you.
A bit funny... no? It's not the parties, but instead hook up culture and sitting at home watching Netflix or playing video games, porn is instead the youths finger tips, we do have licentiousness culture 🤔
@@popbasketball1696 I mean yes and no. The current generation is having historically low number of sexual encounters, and video games are an art form like any other (meaning it can be overabused like any other, but also provide great meaning and togetherness). I dunno, I feel like a part of our decadence is simply the sheer amount of choice we have now. Remember even a decade ago? EVERYone watched Game of Thrones. EVERYone knew what big cultural events were. And everyone had a shared sense of truth, at least more to a degree than we do now. I feel like the sheer amount of choice has made us so fractured. It's kind of hard to find things in common in a deep way because everyone's own view is so different. The pandemic and the lockdowns didn't help. Just my two cents.
@@AureliusLaurentius1099 Germany and Russia WW1. Russian Civil War. American Civil War. Also it’s basically cheating to only include examples where both sides are roughly on par, when you consider that an urban power is almost inherently going to be more technologically advanced than a rural one.
I really feel Decadence is a good way to describe modern American culture. It’s an indulgence culture where instant gratification and shallow pleasure is of greater importance and more promoted than higher learning, moral living and noble ideals. I think we live in something akin to a free love future (in a bad way) and materialism and sexual pleasure is so rampant it’s destroying our young people.
You’re just wrong More people are graduating than ever before, which the right thinks is a bad thing. Young people are having less sex now than in the past, with fewer teenage and extramarital pregnancies. Materialism and over-consumtion is destroying the world correct, yet the right denies climate change and opposes regulation.
@@dylanbuchanan6511 not really, we live in the most alienated time in human history, children used to be raised by villages and now it’s 2 parents maybe 1, after high school most kids go far away from home and never return meaning we all have to actually find each other instead of just picking between the 25 people in the village who you grew up around your whole life
"You don't need a reason to be good. You don't need a reason to be alive. You don't need a reason to try to advance the human race, reach the stars, expand your nation. Life pushes on with its own logic." This was actually very insightful and I feel like not enough people realize what you said. Or they do, but take it the wrong way.
Much of what you are explaining in this video is close to the "Anti-Fragile" theory of Nassim Taleb: in essence, too much comfort makes us weak and disconnected from reality and sets us up for failure; while living on the edge forces us to build our skill and preparation, thus improving survival rate.
Tell that to the most successful generation of well-adjusted, hardworking people we’ve ever seen produced by the USA’s richest 10%. Childhood adversity is a wood chipper that very few survive unscathed. Hard times don’t make hard men, otherwise the third world would have risen up decades ago. It’s fantastical thinking.
@@___.51 Exactly. Everyone always ignores survivor bias, or they just don't care about who is left behind (most of the time this means poor and brown people)
@@___.51 Decadence seems to only truly occur in the upper class when kids are raised aren't raised by their parents to be hardworking or well-adjusted. When survival is guaranteed, people have to find new ways to fuel ambition and give purpose to their lives. If they don't, they just become depressed. A well raised child of a middle- or upper-class family is often more successful than even the best most gifted people from dysfunctional households.
Britain vs France isn't rural vs urban, it's parliamentarianism vs absolutism. And even then Napoleon gave the allies a run for their money based on his own form of revolutionary absolutism. Also 'rural' Russia could not have beaten Germany in WW2 without support from the US, and Germany thoughroughly beat 'rural' Russia in WW1 as it devolved into the various Russian revolutions. I think you are over-extending your thesis by only citing examples that support it and not looking for counter-examples. Makes for good TH-cam polemic but not a good argument.
@@diexor7967 I see there as good ideas to consider, but I never really take his conclusions too seriously. Just good to consider to build my own opinion. I also feel like he just inserts a rant about 'the left'/communism unnessarily to every video.
@@tobiasglendenning7966 I'd say the videos are good as seeds to reflect upon, not as a full on historical education, or accurate prediction. It's always important to challenge your own previous notions. I also agree with your observation on the ranting against 'the left'/communism. I view it mostly as just me getting extra rilled up at seeing the ideological tree I'm more attuned to getting criticized, but it also puts me in a position to criticize that it really isn't fair to treat 'the left' as some monolith. Though the scope of a cultural anthropologist does tend to do that: sweeping, 'big picture' analysis that tend to overlook the countless 'micro-realities on the ground', so to speak. A useful perspective, but not the only one one should use, especially when you focus on flaws.
That’s the problem with his videos he singles out sources that he agrees with and matches his ideology and beliefs meaning his videos information are stunted by his lib right ideals
So the degeneration of American/western culture has caused the decadence. Your general solution to fix culture was with ‘faith’ and ‘honour’ but these are pretty vague. How exactly do you think we can fix American culture at this point other than politics?
Perhaps we could do it the old fashion way. Go and speak and hope that others listen or start a rebellion. I don't think things have gotten bad enough to start a violent rebellion but perhaps one in other forms may do. Go out and protest more, support or don't support products, etc. Heck, maybe a sort of moral rebellion. In which people who want to restore honor and faith display those qualities to inspire others.
I mean idk. I'm British and I never see soldiers here because our army is tiny and not well respected. At the start of May I had a trip to Berlin and their were soldiers everywhere! Particularly around Berlin Hauptbanhoff station, there were Flecktarn-clad men with German flags on their shoulders all over the place. I heard that this was because members of the military get free travel in Germany so they wear their uniforms out and about (which would be prohibited in Britain) to claim this benefit, but I never went to double check if this was true.
@@moritamikamikara3879 Really depends where you live. I am from a military town (one of the largest barracks in the southeast) and there are military parades all the time and the military is held in pretty high regard. We used to have soldiers run training exercises right past our school on a daily basis. And just from a numbers/stats point of view, the UK military is way larger and more powerful than the germany military
On that, I'd argue that the dick-waving contest between Elon and Jeff Bezos over whose space program gets going first is a bigger sign of decadence than anything else
@@Fu3g0.100 Edison was quite ahead of his time when it comes to business tho, so while being morally flawed he did facilitate progress. Elon's only hope when it comes to being beneficial to the society is that he does hype scientific leaps. Whether something good comes out of that, we have to wait and see.
I always preferred Voltaire’s quote: “History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs, wooden shoes coming up.” Silken slippers represent the decadence of the civilization. They make us soft, weak, and comfortable. The men wearing the wooden shoes are uncomfortable, they are blistered, calloused, cut up, hard men. They know pain and loss well, and death is so familiar it is not feared. Do you know why our civilization worships youth? Why it hates aging? Because aging is the only way death comes to them. And they have no familiarity with death, so they fear it. They would rather pretend to be young to forget that death comes for us all.
Well said. They also hate children, because real children bring up the dreaded prospect of responsibility, and remind them that they are not children, they are aging and will die, instead of remaining the adored, pampered youngsters forever.
My problem with this is that frankly it feels like it's trying to create a narrative rather than necessarily seeing a historical pattern. Rome survived for centuries and even reached its greatest height *after* Nero and Caligula, and it wasn't the decadence of the ruling class that brought it down when it did fall; people forget just how ideologically extreme the French Revolution was (they even tried to do things like decimalise time), and the Republic never truly fell; in terms of putting "socially-constructed reality above actual reality" I point you to the centuries of religious chaos in Europe where countless thousands died and entire power blocs formed and wars were fought over absurd, meaningless doctrinal differences, during which European global power only increased. And during this time there plenty of ridiculous fashions and fads analogous to NFTs.
The religious warfare wasn't really run by people out of touch nor was it a people becoming morally bankrupt. It is was more of a power and ideological struggle with people willing to die for their side and becoming more morally strict.
If European global power only increased then doctrinal differences were not "meaningless". Wars also were not absurd, if you gain power in result of them. Quite the opposite - Wars are for power.
As far as I know the theories he is talking about are well established, you just would never hear anyone mention them in the modern world. Arguably decadence of the ruling class is a reflection of the decadence of the society as a whole, or maybe rather the decadence of the society as a whole is a reflection of decadence of the ruling class. There was a brief renewal in Rome, probably due to conflict, you had the 5 good emperors, but it didn't stop the decline. French revolution was so ideologically extreme as you say, yet we all accept its values today without question, isn't that an argument for decadence? "I point you to the centuries of religious chaos in Europe where countless thousands died and entire power blocs formed and wars were fought over absurd, meaningless doctrinal differences, during which European global power only increased." It's like you haven't watched the video. He talked about it. Also casus belli was often just an excuse, while the real underlying reason was a masculine, barbarian desire for conquest.
"I can't think of a case where an urban society beat a rural one" what about the one million conquests of various savages at Rome's borders? How do you think urban societies get so rich and big in the first place? e: Oh yeah, ACW too. Also all the European countries conquering the world back in the day.
Well, TBF, most of the military were in the rural areas. Later on, Rome became dominated almost entirely by the military, meaning it became dominated by the rural frontier regions.
@@innosam123 it's still pretty Fremen Mirage. I highly recommend you look up on TH-cam ACOUP Fremen Mirage. He even mentions the Caesar claim made in the video
The conquering Roman armies were composed of land owning farmers. The later imperial legions were mostly a defensive maintenance force with a few notable exceptions. Bottom line is most of the empire was secured by farmers.
The number of people interested in what you have to say gives me hope for the the future of the world and the human race. Great job. You are an asset to us all.
6:17 Don't forget that post-Communist societies tend to follow a trend of depression and hopelessness for the future. It's not only an ineffective method of governance; it's also a murderer of the soul and spirit of the people.
No, post-communist societies experience a plundering of their state owned industries by a cartel of rich cronies and foreigners who sell all of the nation’s assets for personal profit… plunging the country further into poverty and souring the public’s overall outlook.
@@RotneybotOfficial You said the people’s hopelessness for the future resulted from communism “murdering their soul and spirit,” actually. In reality, it was rapid economic liberalization which caused the negative outlook. The exact opposite of what you said
Considering what I read about history, I believe that the best way to delay complete decedance is to require would-be politicians to fight for office...in a duel to the death...initiated by a recall vote. This would scare off individuals who value their life over duty for their country and discourage those who are already in power from undermining their own countries
Interesting thought, with the potential downside being that the system you describe would select for individuals with aptitude for violence. Each successful politician that holds office would essentially be a murderer, so it wouldn't be a great start to their career.
You would get violent psychopaths who dont value or care human life, not even their own one at all. Alternatively, suicidal people who have nothing to lose.
@@idleishde6124 Idk but it feels like there's a decadence factor playing here, his confident that his plan would work and thought that the operation would be easy, and in reality it's not
@@idleishde6124 He is weak in moral fiber and intelligence. He is a fool for assuming that Russia is still as mighty as it once was and, because of that, he started a conflict that he probably won't win and even if he does take over Ukraine, he has ostracized Russia from the world stage without the power to back it up. He got overconfident and decadent in his narion's power and so Russia will pay the price. Now Russia is at an increased risk of failing economically and politically. People typically don't want to work for a villain, much less a weak one.
This reminds me of somthing, for absolutely no reason at all, my mind seems to remember a certain line of dialogue from Batman Dark Nigth Rises, when Batman and Bane figth for the first time in the sewers and Bane says: "Peace has cost you your strength, victory has defeated you" Despite not waching the movie in months, I cant get the quote out of my head
Little known and rather obscure fact but Song Dynasty China, it was the first country where Restaurants came to exist. Centuries before Restaurants came to exist in France. Hence, If your country has a restaurateur culture...you live in a decadent society.
@@stormaflu4632 No they didn't, the difference between Rome and Song Dynasty China/French Restaurants is a personal written menu and sitting at the establishment and meals being made to order. As opposed to Rome where the establishment had a predetermined repertoire of items that the clientele picked from. Know it seem abritary but thats really what makes a restaurant a restaurant. What Rome had is akin to a McDonald's or that place at Costco where you can get hotdogs and pizza slices and you wouldn't describe that establishment as a "restaurant." I see where you would be mistaken because the word restaurant has been broaden to include American-style Dinners, Café so on and so forth.
@@sinoroman I would say the Song were so incredibly advance for their time. That if Song Dynasty China never fell it could've been the first Industrialized nation. Imagine Fire Nation from Avatar. Edit: the Channel Cool History Bros has a video on this topic if *You would like to know more*
I feel like in modern societies, even in the "less decadent" east, Middle East, and Africa, there are pockets of extreme decadence(Dubai, Gangnam, Shibuya to name a few) . are the key is CAN the non-decadent, realistic people wrestle power from the detached "elites". I almost worry for the whole world because the decadent LA socialites in Hollywood(who are probably some of the most detached and isolated people in the world, and of course, their eastern Equivalents such as KPop, Bollywood,) are the mainstream entertainment across the world, and the most decadent people are in control of the "world police", this is why we need decentralization and smaller government, stop trusting academia and media, buy local, and make more independent media
"society becomes a giant court where people try to fake agreeability and kindness to gain allies rather than a war band (sp?)people speak and act plainly"
28:50 "always know that the world's a complicated place and try to view the world through the eyes of a foreigner or an 11 year old." that really resonated and seems like good practical advice
As Always, an over simplistic view about India, True that Indian rulers did not reform their armies, did not have outposts but the reality of the situation is they couldn't because they were more like lords, they did not have resources, they had to call upon other feudal lords to raise a not so professional army, and there is no evidence that they built temples to appease gods to save them from invaders, they restored temples that were destroyed during invasions, don't know why you make this up.
Ah, just the video I needed. I am saddened by the realization that we have been decadent since the boomer generation, if not all time after world war two.
@@stormaflu4632 we won’t be unless we start making a conscious choice to reject the decadence. Europe might be already done for, but the US has a chance, but only A CHANCE, not some sort of pre-determined destiny.
@@stormaflu4632 I can’t hear you over the sound of my free healthcare, evidence based decision making and consesus driven politics. We’re so much better than America. Enjoy your culture war. My tip? Have some sex, enjoy life, treat others with kindness.
I'm seeing a couple of cases where there's a selection bias in the data set. For example, any look at the contemporary celebrities in a society at a present moment an apples to oranges comparison with the celebrities of the past who are known today, because the historical celebrities have been filtered by time and social memory. Shakespeare had numerous contemporaries that barely anyone other than a scholar of the time would be able to name. Those with impactful legacies are remembered while those who were popular but frivolous are forgotten.
Pretty much all of the video is selection bias, he even states at the end that the idea came up when he visited Los angeles and thought it was decadent so he went and cherry picked which examples from history would prove his premise.
@@thw_paragon6793 They mean that decadence isn't the problem in real life that he's projected it to mean. At the 25 minute mark he describes the decadence of Republican Rome as ultimately destroying the Roman empire... **Four Hundred Years** later(!?)
Not to mention the amount of outreach celebrities have today compares to older times due to technology and people having a lot more leisure time than before
I feel there is a little bit of a shell game between ideology and economics being played here. A lot of shade thrown at decedent "educated/liberal" elites, but little at the actual material elites. As per Turchin's elite competition, the local sociology teacher didn't cripple the local utilities because they needed the additional profits to get their relatives into X school or trust funds. Take the current war with Russia, the people who hooked us completely to Russia did so for hard cash, not lefty ideas. If ignoring reality is decadence, that counts just as much whether your so full of self-loathing you can't see the strengths of your own society, or strategically weakening your own society because the antagonistic rival one pays more and you need that money for extreme displays of wealth.
That's true. But most of those are usually the descendants of actual material elites, and on top of that much of it. On top of that, it's still the lefty elites who are voting for that war as it's become a court-like scenario with fake manners and fake virtues. Also that local sociology professor usually votes to make said utility more expensive which hurts the poor.
(Turkey) My family owns 3 houses and 1 shop and we are collecting rent from all of them, but we still can barely afford eating meat regularly and try to not drive car because oil is expensive and we often don't have any money left at the end of the month. Think of the poor of my country. We also host the biggest number of refugees in the world and in some places in Istanbul you have to try your hardest to find someone who speaks Turkish. While all of these are happening, our political elite build giant palaces, mosques or airports that nobody uses to our smallest provinces and eat desserts that are more expensive than my house in a single day. I don't know when our collapse is, but I'm sure it can't be as annoying as the status quo.
I am fairly certain that if Erdogan just raised interest rates, that would help with inflation and improve peoples lives (see Economics Explained youtube channel). In general I think that Turkey has a bright future ahead, they just need to get rid of Erdogan, as well as other politicians like him and try harder to get into the EU
@@glendisshiko8182 Getting into EU is impossible. First of all, if we got into the EU we would be the most populous country in EU, which would change its internal balance drastically, so France and Germany wouldn't really want us. Then, EU won't allow us without us sacrificing Cyprus, which isn't going to happen. I mean, even if we actually sacrificed Cyprus, South Cyprus wouldn't want North Cyprus back. Also being an EU member would be a bit nice for economy and democracy, but we'd be giving away some national sovereignity and our potential as a big player in international politics. And Erdoğan didn't raise interest rates, he did something similar which didn't really work.
@@kmmmsyr9883 Never say Never! EU expansion is mainly motivated by the desire to expand the common market and Turkey does have a very large internal market that would interest France and Germany. As for Cyprus, well special exceptions have been in the past for countries to join the EU and I believe something could be arranged
You say that lack of religion makes societies decadent while saying that indians built temples instead of reforming their armies clearly contraficting yourself.
@@genericperson8354 This is even more baffling. This entire video is drug induced rambling with fucking hillarious maps, the most complex thing about understanding this video is understanding what he's even trying to say
@@genericperson8354 Such complex ideas as "Marxism is when you lie" Have you watched anything WhatIfAltHist says? He literally said that during a debate with Vaush
The funniest thing about your thesis on decadence is, when modern people think of modern degeneracy it takes the form of society being oversexualized and full of carnal vices, when in reality that tends to better describe the barbaric stages of society.
yeah, we just, for some reason still hold on to those wierd christian values were anything sexual is decadent and something to be repressed, i mean thats why almost any kind of sex is considered ''kinky''.
The problem is that they are barbaric stages of society but without nature's punishments on overindulgence of those things because of the system's social services
Just look at the most popular music and movies/tv shows that the west consumes, its delusional to think society is not getting more degenerate. Barbaric society have a greater sense of communal honor, if someone was to bring shame or dishonor in a barbaric society they could be killed or exiled
The start is similar to the end. At the start, the powerful do what they will, so they seize the world's fruits and indulge their passions. The civilisation stage is when the chaos of barbarians is tamed for the sake of the common man, and a social contract is made. Towards the end, the powerful in the society are isolated in their Epicurean bubbles of luxury, and so they purchase the world's fruits, and indulge their passions. The powerful will always exist, and they will always be able to do what they want. The difference between barbarians and aristocrats is that powerful barbarians have real power, built on their own physical and mental virtues, whereas the aristocrats have socially constructed power, which depends on everyone else respecting the system. Hence, the common man can revolt against the bourgeoisie, but not against the warrior class.
" i can't think of an example where an urban country beat a rural one" .. this bodes well for the next American Civil War and freedom , the big divide in America is not red v blue, its urban v rural, although admittedly you could mostly map red v blue on top of urban v rural. It's like two different worlds.
If rural America really was determined as a socity to separate itself from urban America, I don't see the later having the means to prevent it. But also, I don't see that they would have much interest in making genuine efforts to do so. It'd be good riddance.
In the event of a new American Civil War both sides lose. The urban and suburban regions get starved out, the rural regions are all too aged to replenish losses in a war.
when banning things is the only thing the ruler knows how to do any more... ... he will try to solve all problems by banning everything... edit: actually i think the difference between Xi and Deng/Mao is: Deng/Mao fought in the trenches and went through personal hardships, they were not afraid to die for what they believed in... so they are not afraid of taking big risks re grand strategy Xi grew up in a peaceful period, he probably is more risk adverse and just dont want to lose what he already has...
Well, it is a bit more complex. In the 1st Millennium AD, Merchant Guilds had gained significant power and prestige in India. As such, the next 200 years saw a collaboration between the Bramhins and Kshatriyas to reduce the power of the Vaishyas
I went to the University of California, and it's not an "ideological indoctrination camp". There was a mainstream of ideology, but the majority of students hosted their quiet objections to it and payed it little attention. Only in a select few (highly ridiculed) departments in the system are overtly ideological. They have a strong grip over the profession of law, because basically all of the writing classes are explicitly based on social justice prompts (a result of the "silence is violence" dogma, professors aren't allowed NOT to at least nudge their students in a particular direction via what prompts and writings are chosen). But they have basically no influence in STEM fields. The only real SJW movement in STEM at UC is "women in STEM", and most of those women in STEM have little interest in ideology.
Highly agree. I'm a STEM student at a 2nd tier british university and other than the occasional poster/email about "gender and marxism" or the like I haven't noticed any "ideological indoctrination". If you're doing gender studies or anthropology or something then sure, but these degrees don't really get you into the elite any more in the same way that a STEM degree will
This!!! Maybe I’ve been lucky, but I’ve met very few people (even literal socialists) who are unwilling to sit down and have a conversation at the school I go to
The lie that colleges are indoctrinating students is a lie that arose because most hard-core conservatives simply aren’t very smart, and certinly can’t intelligently defend their prejudices. Which is why they choose to attack colleges instead of engaging in some very needed introspection
If you want an example of a more urban "country" beating a more rural one... how about the American Civil War? The Union was significantly more urbanized than the Confederacy, which gave them a lot more people and resources... and they were somehow able to get the population to buy in like a less-urbanized society, which allowed them to take advantage of it.
Industry. Union had a technological advantage. "There are no examples of urban beating rural" = "Urban cultures tend to be less effective at war than rural ones" If you translate his hyperbolic speech made for inciting comments, then most of his videos seem mostly agreeable. Take everything he says with a grain of salt since this is after all a business based on inciting views.
@@bitcoinzoomer9994 Urban cultures /usually/ have the technological advantage but eventually run into problems due to motivation (see: USSR vs. Afghanistan). Anyway, considering the exceptions that prove the rule is a great way of strengthening a rule. The difference between the Union vs. Confederacy conflict and, say, USSR vs. Afghanistan isn't the technological difference; the Confederates were way closer to the Union than the Afghanis were to the USSR. Rather, the difference is that while urban cultures usually bear higher costs in war (due to both higher opportunity costs and to much larger infrastructure risks), the Union's cost/benefit analysis was greatly impacted by ideological motivations -- "as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free," as the song goes -- which made available the sort of scorched earth tactic that wouldn't make sense for anyone interested in financial gain. Looking at another exception that proves the rule -- Desert Storm -- shows some similar elements. Most obviously, the coalition's technological and tactical advantages in the arena of conventional warfare were so great in that case that it was more of a turkey shoot than a war; the coalition faced basically zero infrastructure risks and the difference in opportunity cost was easily overwhelmed by the difference in direct losses. Even so, it's likely that even that sort of war wouldn't have worked in the absence of a crusading spirit directed towards the enforcement of international norms regardless of the financial cost. Decadence provides a second analytical angle that's interesting in both cases. Urban cultures, being further removed from natural competition, tend to suffer higher levels of decadence. But that's not the case in either the Union vs. Confederacy and Desert Storm conflicts. The Union's industrialization wasn't just a technological advantage; it was a manifestation of a greater willingness to compete, in contrast to the Confederacy's reality-defying reliance on slave power. Likewise, the authoritarian nature of the Saddam regime likely left the Iraqi military more detached from reality than the coalition they were facing.
The South punched way above their weight considering their smaller military and much poorer infrastructure. That it came down to Gettysburg shows the value of his point. It never should've been that close.
@@ninja0406 How much of that came down to the Confederacy fighting primarily on their own turf? The Union was effectively an invading force, and invading an enemy's territory requires a multiple times' advantage to be successful regardless of urban vs. rural effects. It's hard to imagine the converse scenario -- Confederacy attempts to take Union territory back after secession -- turning out even close for the Confederates.
@@ikkinwithattitude The Soviet failure in Afghanistan was probably much more related to the material conditions of the economy (big oil bubble burst when they were all in on paying for things with petro-rubles) than any particular cultural feeling on the part of soviet soldiers.
Before considering ways to oppose decadence and decline I think you need to establish that permanent civilisations are superior than cyclic ones. It is quite possible grand cycles of growth, death and renewal are the optimum model overall.
Europe seems to have skipped a cycle in the 1500s, and that worked out for them. Plus I have a hard time seeing how dying by barbarian conquest in any way could be some kind of long term investment.
@@buddermonger2000 There has never been an eternal, stable civilisation. Existing in that state might come with unanticipated disadvantages. We already know that societies that go through cycles of growth and decay tend to pull ahead of and dominate cultures that are less dynamic over time.
The fuck kind of permanent civilizations exist? China and India went through lots of cultural refreshes and reboots that their histories can be cleanly divided into eras. France and England have only been around for a millennium and a half, and the only thing keeping the two of them alive past the early 20th century is being close allies with the biggest military industrial complex in the world.
Given that the nature of life is to persist, I believe that virtues are no more than social equivalents of the same cohesive behaviors responsible for the sustainability of any system
Some historians believe that the witches were overwhelmingly unattractive, older woman denounced by hotter, younger woman. And that the patriarchy went with it because they had no interest in breeding with the "witches".
Basically, mob doesn't like woman because she doesn't fit in, so kill her. If twitter mobs could kill "racist" white men, it'd be the same. Just getting rid of what the people think are undesirables.
5:44 I am no marxist, but what you wrote there is complete BS on so many levels. First of all you have a pretty skewed view of what marxism and leftism are. Most leftists, both marxists and non marxists alike, would probably agree with the impact Christianity had on the development of (Western) Europe and North America and are discussing it to this day, for example when they talk about Max Weber and the topic of the "protestant workethic" (btw you can find dozens of videos on YT discussing this). Sadly the next example you give is neither (predominantly) christian or western: Japan. What played a much larger role in the democratization of Germany and Japan than their supposed "christian" influence, is that they lost a war they started, after they were forced into it by a facist military dictatorship, that destroyed their first atempt at democracy. Meaning, there was support in the populace for democracy, combined with viewing the Allies/US as liberators. Another factor is that both countries were completely destroyed by the war, lost millions of people and received massive financial support. Iraq and Afghanistan were nothing like this. The most notably is the way the US (and its allies) were viewed. I give you a tip: not positively. Your analysis is lacking in nuance and I think you should stop making broad statements about history and societies in this manner. Huge meta narratives and global prognosises are often incorrect, which is the one thing marxism can actually be criticised for (although when we look at this aspect of Marx' writing we probably have to read it more philosophically than scientifically and it does not take away from his analysis). It is unhelpful to the work of historians and leads to confirmation bias and looking for things that arent there.
An excellent example of Roman Decadence done disturbingly similar to Bioshock’s Dr. Steinmann is when Imperator Nero forced a random servant to have all his male intimates cut off and then was forced to be his slave wife. So yeah pretty disturbing example of Roman decadence in the malicious interpretation of Art meeting Biology/Medical “Science.”
If you like this, I highly recommend you watch on TH-cam ACOUP Fremen Mirage. it's written by a historian. he covers Rome, the Germanic tribes and Gauls all within this context
I watched the movie "The Bird Box" recently for the first time, and while it was OK as entertainment, I realize that the main perturbing element - strange visions that encourage humans to look at them and which then cause the looker to commit suicide - is similar in a lot of ways to how you said decadence eventually forces people to "see" it and take part in this self-defeating behavior. Also, interestingly, in this apocalyptic tale with undeniable divine underpinnings, there are certain humans who see the visions and do NOT go mad because they were already crazy to begin with and they WANT to see these evil visions. Those crazy people are moved to make the rest of the world LOOK at the visions, forcefully "converting" those who try to avoid seeing it. Modern society is full of people like this who actively and willfully recruit others to the cause of decadence.
"something that may shock people is that i think the modern west is headed in the same direction" This will shock nobody pop-historians have been claiming this stuff forever
Nationalism is us vs them and thrives on a society being under a current and tangible threat. If no such threat exists, which is a good thing, then people become less patriotic, which is historically a bad thing, so I guess there's no winning. Also the problem isn't per say not being down to earth or todays leaders being less natural, it's simply about scale, competitions of popularity is simply because not the general populace nor anyone for that matter really knows the right course of action to effectively manage so many people. Finding food or conquering your neighbor is simply more straightforward, innate and less abstract than managing the economy or upholding human rights. Please correct me where I am wrong as I am not an historian.
I think the word "based" is extremely important. It means "based in reality", or something similar, and it is a way of praising someone who speaks against convention by telling the truth. Advocating harsh policies that work is based, for example. The same is true of the red pill and blue pill meme; would you rather live in the truth, and struggle, or live a lie but not worry?
It actually means "uses LSD". The term "based" comes from rapper Lil B (aka BasedGod) and he said it refers to "base heads" which is a slang term for someone who uses LSD frequently. I'd guess the colloquial meaning comes from the effect LSD sometimes has of cutting through the surface-level socially-enforced thought patterns-- which is why the US government became terrified of it during Vietnam.
@@simex909 It can have multiple meanings. A base is a foundation, something rooted in a fundamental truth. That which acknowledges fundamental reality is therefore "based".
from time to time i think of a quote from interstellar. in the movie it is said by mccounaghey‘s characters dad and it is said just so subtly that probably most people missed it entirely. in the scene him and his son look up to the sky, talking about humanitys future, when he says: „8 billion people. and each of them wanted to have everything.“ greed is what will destroy us in the end…
Decadence Noun "moral or cultural decline as characterized by excessive indulgence in pleasure or luxury." Just as Europe lives in an Apollonian age so does WIAH's channel as it enters an age of decadence We've gone from the barbaric age (making althists) to a civilized age (making both althists and geopol) then finally to a period of glutony (the current state of the channel)
No, I would say this is the civilized age. He is focusing on the broader aspects of human society and civilization in the modern day instead of just looking into the past through his althists. His decadence is not upon us yet.
This feels quite exact. While Europe is in no way as powerful on a global scale as it was pre World Wars, that doesn’t mean it has decayed to the point of the Roman Empire near its end. Honestly, ever time I hear one of his videos, the claim he had of being center right slides further and further rightwards in all our disdain for Europe and social justice
I feel like this one's a miss, chief. Urban societies beat rural ones often, hell in your example Germany pushed russia's shit in during both great wars, even soviet leadership admitted that american lend-lease is what kept them in the war. That and you give america a bit too much credit on the latter section. As a non-westerner who's been all over the west, you're practically indistinguishable in terms of decadence.
I’m a big fan of this channel but the idea that Europe became decadent because it became less religious is just lazy. Your videos are always so insightful, thought provoking and well researched. This one just misses the mark. I’m not anti religious and I watched another one of you videos with posed that Christianity moved humans away from being shame based to guilt based. Further how this transition greatly benefited western societies. This was such a profound perspective, it’s brilliant. I guess my point is, religion has had a massive and highly positive effect on humans, societies and the world it just feels lazy in this context
Yes and no The US lost in Afghanistan. I think if the Urban one somewhat functional i think the better term is industrial. Also the insurgency warfare has many factors to it
decadence is a loaded and nebulous term that doesn't have a CLEAR quantifiable or even qualitative definition. It's also been a right wing talking point for the past 60 years to harp about Western decadence and the upcoming collapse. Havent watched the video yet, but I have always thought he made his weakest points when he brought up decadence in other videos.
The topic hits too close to home considering elements of decay continue to make themselves known AND most of the west's culture is heavily influenced by Christian guilt complex. Combine that with a few frankly silly claims and it's the perfect breeding ground for a fight.
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Greetings Whatifalthist from Colombia 🙏🇨🇴
Who’s Hank?
I dont think this is real at all.
Do you watch Nick Fuentes?
I like the change in your content lately, you are right on the money: ignore the haters.
How you described India at 20:00 seems very similar to modern China. They're even starting to ban overseas travel!
My definition of Decadence is when someone feels the need to shell out 50 bucks for a 1-foot square plot of land in Scotland or who knows where so he/she can be declared a noble and bolster a sagging sense of self and purpose in life.
I wish we lived in America where 10$ could get a man a farm. I'd pay that
$50 is not enough for decadence. Decadence is when you pay thousands of dollars for a virtual plot of land in a game that does not yet exist. THAT is decadence.
He should get some Star Citizen sponsorships.
@@fat4eyes I would say that NFTs can also be defined as decadent
😹
Uh…what
"Once the moral code of society is based around popularity, there is no recourse to actions being ridiculous." If there was ever a better summation of the culture of Instagram and TikTok, I haven't seen one.
tell me about the narcissism of aristocracy
When your speech is oppressed: [Redacted]
When someone else's speech is oppressed: "Once the moral code of society is based around popularity, there is no recourse to actions being ridiculous." If there was ever ....
This fits many right wing fans.
I thought you were going to say elections
@@menjolno Nice non argument, no one is oppressing your speech, in fact thats the problem, you oppress the speech of others and people like you threaten others using your narcissistic social climbing to force everyone else to think like you. you aren't a victim, but I wish you would become one.
@@menjolnodude it literally describes leftists and libtards. And I say this as someone who is neither right or left.
“All empires fall, eventually. But why? It’s not for lack of power. In fact, it seems to be the opposite. Their power lulls them into comfort. They become undisciplined. Those who had to earn power are replaced by those who have known nothing else. Who have no comprehension of the need to rise above base desires." - Max Barry, Lexicon
we should thank the heavens that the powerful eventually become decadent and falls... that way other people have a chance at the game...
else we would all still be ruled by Babylonians or Sumerians right now...
@@therearenoshortcuts9868 Personally, I find the idea of empires abhorrent in general. Having said that, I do think it is important to be strong to ward off other would-be empires.
"Peace has robbed you of your strength. Victory has defeated you." - some guy who broke Batman's back.
@@jamesscarano7843
Russia: "you have only embraced the corrupt deep state, I was born in it, molded by it"
@@jamesscarano7843 He's a big guy.
"Decadence comes when man turns away from the stars and instead drowns himself in wine."
One of my favorite quotes from you.
Narcissism and hedonism are so destructive. I'm not even Christian, though I have an open mind, but I think God (or maybe even just a higher power generally) is critical to a healthy, prosperous society (as long as humans are human). As we've moved away from God, we've just slid further into narcissism and hedonism and "me me me" attitudes, and I could point to countless things as a result that signify a degenerate, weak, destructive society. My 18-20 year old self would've scoffed at this and called 39 year old me ridiculous and full of crap, but it's just something I've come to the conclusion of after paying attention to things and keeping an open mind, and trying to be objective.
@@clamum9648 Took you too long to realize, and longer yet to speak out. and so the later generations are left decades behind in the abyss.
@@unsrescyldas9745 sure
Indeed
@@clamum9648 One of the wisest comments I've ever seen. I've read philosophy books with worse beliefs, and worse ways of putting it.
A society that considers a house an asset and a child a liability, deserves no more than what it will end up with.
I think both homes and children are assets and liabilities in the sense that you must take care of / fund both but they both offer immense value (one monetary one social emotional/human) but I see your point.
@@TriZaba children are not things to be owned, they're the very goal of all this shit we go through. They are the ultimate shit.
@@TriZaba I myself am 19 and have a wife and a kid, I don't have much, just a house and a 2012 Lada (i live in Russia btw) and am a university student, my only viable income is through my stipendii and my language tutor work and occasional interborder trade, that is it, I am a big time major league liability, i'm a kid myself, but I am under no conditions going to subject myself to the system and live in my basement and let my wife be a wageslave (she's a good programmer btw) until our 30s just to start paying our taxes on our inflated incomes.
Good luck to you sir.
My advice is invest in tools and other things that don't lose value even after inflation and stock market crashes.
A house IS an asset but I see your point.
"The willingness to put culturally constructed reality above reality itself." That's it, that sums it up
Why is hollywood now a days making more fiction movies than movies based on real stories. Stories that depict its people?
Reality is always socially constructed, kinda
Stares at modern liberal movements...
You don't say
It is such a funny thing to say when you also say godless society.
@@JosueLopez-kk9us Reality is often disappointing.
"People who buy NFTs dishonor their inherent value as human beings."
Couldn't have said it better myself.
"BRO NFTs ARE LEGIT AND TOTALLY NOT SKETCHY EVEN THO I CANT EXPLAIN WHY A MONEY CARTOON IS WORTH $5 MILLION"
nice profile picture
This episode is sponsored by Established Titles! You can buy a piece of land in Scotland with your name on it today! It's great for bragging rights to your friends, and you can put it on your credit card, you tinder bio, and it makes a great gift.
Yeah but people who buy NFTs don't have moral agency therefore aren't really human.
@@markmayonnaise1163 exactly nfts lolllllll established titles is literally basically nfts
"It is the willingness to put culturally constructed reality above reality itself"
How do you explain things so perfectly, that was fucking amazing
lol no it wasn't and this guy is an idiot.
Oh hey there
I immediately thought of Plato when I heard that quote
@@cgiunta6542 Yep, Kant as well
Alternative is Aristotle
In Plato power is control over people and the totalitarian state is God
In Aristotle power is control over nature and at the same time nature is God
Bacon (Aristotelian): Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed
So there is a natural order (Dao) for us to discover in the world and in ourselves
Jesus dude I didn't even know you could get this based
Growing up close to the poverty line, I witnessed this phenomenon a lot. People in the middle class and up sort of wish not to acknowledge the real world and just live in their little bubbles.
Omfl seriously
@@shivandragon1651 This idea is why things like affordable housing are not done in blue states that push for these policies more. The idea is to support the idea but just not in their backyard.
Do you think you could elaborate and give examples on how?
@@charless3484 it's not even that, it's the disconnect they have to work, it's insane I have several friends who just expect things to get better without actually putting the work into it's getting better. Or not understanding what it's like to litteraly struggle to pay rent and get to work and feed yourself because everything is just getting fucking ridiculously expensive due to inflation.
@@buddermonger2000 th-cam.com/video/hNDgcjVGHIw/w-d-xo.html
provides some insight
"Circassian slave girls"
Nice reference to the later Ottoman Sultans when the empire was in steady decline.
In fairness, Circassian beauties were thought to be the pinnacle of any/all slave girls, so they themselves are a good example of decadence outside of any particular context.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_beauty
But Circassian slave girls make me go
Yes
The ottomans catch flack for that but nobody mentions that 97% of circassions were killed or expelled by Russians and many actually sought refuge with the Ottomans
Half expected him to gloss over any references to the Ottoman era of decadence.
What is it referencing exactly?
"If we exclude how morally wrong the factors involved were, the conquistadors really did fuck" is probably one of the funniest historical observations ever made.
BASED
Well he’s not wrong, I mean think about literally 1 out of every 2 Latin Americans has substantial Spanish European ancestry. Which heavily implies that their is a high likelihood of having parents who both have Spanish ancestors going back just a couple hundred years at the most distant. And those genes keep being reinforced and proliferating amongst the succeeding generations to the point that successfully breeding people of predominantly native meso-American ancestry has become a statistical impossibility.
They did -- and with the native women. Whereas the English brought to the New World something the Spanish generally did not do -- their wives! One big reason for the superiority of the United States in this hemisphere, though no doubt the chattering class's informal militias (antifa, cancel mobs) will call me 'racist' for saying so.
@@neongenesisevangelion587 Them Spaniards and Portugeese clapped them brown cheeks 🤣😂 Now I'm remembering the chick from Eldorado cartoon. Same probably happened in North-Western India, if you are conqueror it's free real estate
Jesus christ I just realized that all of Latin America is inbred
Teacher: make sure your powerpoint slides don't have too many words
Whatifalthist:
Yes, it's hard for me to listen and read at the same time. I keep having to pause.
Teacher: Marxism is great!
Whatifalthist:
he calls them text walls
I get that politics is a wide field, but there comes a point where you aren't expressing yourself concisely.
I was just in LA last week. It's so weird and sad to see high end restaurants and brand boutiques along the beaches of Santa Monica, while laying on the pristine parks just next to them are scores of homeless people and druggies digging for discarded food out of the trash.
A lot of homeless people are exported to blue states by red states, since that's the red state substitute to actually trying to solve the problem. Personally I would try to emulate Finland and their method of solving homelessness, but that means California must become more left-wing than it is currently, not less
@@casuallavaring Or maybe it's because Blue states have so many social safety nets that homeless people just naturaly flock there.
Homeless drug addicts are on the state of California’s payroll, they are enablers in this lifestyle… the mentally ill get lost in the shuffle
@@casuallavaring California is a shithole that actively enacts policies that hurt the poor, all while preaching about how much they love them
@@casuallavaring Lol Most homeless from red states come from blue cities… the only reason they come to California is for the weather
Something that I'm noticing is that loyalty is generally dying. The dynamic of relationships is changing. More traditionally, you would be a bit standoffish and suspicious of outsiders, they hadn't proven themselves to be trustworthy or beneficial yet. However, the average person is encouraged to instead be open to all newcomers, perhaps even exclusively so.
Whereas previously a person who had proven themselves to be loyal would have also proven themselves to be worthy of your defense and support, now the paradigm is flipped to where every newcomer, every stranger, is deserved utmost respect and deference up until the point that they say or do anything that is contrary to your sensibilities.
Instead of being cautious about who you let into your life and then going to bat for them once they have proven that they are worth it, even if they mess up, we are encouraged to accept every single person in the world so long as they don't mess up.
Amen. And being someone that values loyalty above all else, it makes your life extremely lonely.
You’re talking about immigrants, we get it
Seriously people on an individual level are still guarded and need time to build trust with each other. That hasn’t changed. The only way your essay makes sense is if you’re talking about immigrants as a whole and the shift away from outright bigotry against them. Just say you’re scared of foreigners lol.
@@___.51 that's what you got out of that? i think you came in with a massive bias and see ghosts where there are none
@@rrai1999 go smoke some dope.
@@___.51 and that's perfectly fine to be suspicious of people from a completely alien culture as they might have belief systems antithetical to YOUR civilization.
“We’ve seen Europe drop from 38-24% of the world’s economy while the US has remained a stable quarter.” Has gotta be this man’s catchphrase
Well...
It is accurate...
That has probably a lot to do with how since 1913, modern EU-27's population has only increased by around 60%, while US population has more than tripled. In terms of actual GDP per capita growth, Europe and US were evenly matched in the last 110 years (basically an identical 6.5 fold increase in GDP per capita from 1913 to 2016 for US, France and Germany). Unlike Europe, US had and still has a shitload of room for growth in terms of useful land; its population would need to be 800 million to have a comparable density to present-day EU.
If I was allowed to print money, I would be the richest person in the world too.
@@marciamartins1992 most economically literate eurotard
@@MVargic Yeah, America has plenty of places to colonize and occupy if need be. Though we would prefer not to. We like our landscapes.
“Moral corruption is the result of decadence, the weakness of the will and the need for strong stimulants”
~ Freidrich Nietzche
It is an intriguing thought that decadence can be reversed, or at least delayed. Europe in the 1500’s was the example in the video, and it also offers space expansion as a possible fix. How closely linked to that delay was the discovery of a new frontier in the 1500’s? I can see the same pattern occur again in the initial settling of the 13 colonies, which attracted a more barbarous type from a Europe showing early signs of decadence in the late 1600’s early 1700’s, proceeding rapidly to the civilizing movement around the American founding. Then again in the Westward Expansion, which attracted again a much rougher people followed by a culture of civilization from the 1880’s up through WWII. And now space appears like it could provide another frontier to delay decadence. Is it possible that decadence is caused simply by a society losing its expansion momentum? The values then shifting from honesty and problem solving on a dangerous frontier to manipulation and status seeking in a sheltered environment?
Space Expansion is unlikely compared to ocean/polar expansion. The Earth’s gravity well is a bitch.
The ISS costs billions just to maintain 7 people, and each Dragon seat is only accessible to the ultra-wealthy ($55mil/seat). Costs have only gone down modestly.
Once we develop algal aquaculture, we can see a massive expansion in aquaculture and the marine economy as a viable basis for a wider Marine colonization effort can be made.
Civilisation do not exist
Space expansion will probably lead to new civilizations, a la the 13 colonies.
The "Downfall" thesis has haunted European writing since the time of the roman empire. Europe today is a circular firing squad held in check by a mutual contempt of what happened last time and how it ended.
The definitive movie describing the end of the world wars (the second of which was urged on by Spengler) was named, very ironically and knowingly, by it's German filmmakers "Der Untergang". Yes the most extraordinary nod mixed with the utmost disrespect.
This is where the extraordinary unity around Russian invasion of Ukraine comes from - everyone of us knows what it means. The wheel spins again, and when it, inevitably, gets out of rational control, it will crush tens of million. Military careers and those in the world of security provision, local and national, have spiked massively in the millennial generation.
@@k.o.hakala2112 do you see the unity against Russian aggression a good thing or bad thing
I think a good way to sum up this video is as society becomes overly comfortable people more or less become lazy on everything and society inevitably collapses
More like
Bureaucrats don't work within reality, so they expand the bureaucracy to fit their own views. Comfort seeks comfort which leads to weakness.
@@Walterdecarvalh0100 and I rest my case not just beaurocrats but regular people
I’ll enjoy it, it’s the East’s turn to rise
@@1mol831 "the east" is also largely degenerate
@@1mol831 kinda like the ending of fight club after all the financial building blown up after tyler durden starts his great reset which fight club is a movie very much themed on decadence and how people are unhappy with it
It's important to note that urban elites aren't in their cities the way most commoners are. I'm from Southern Brooklyn, and it's a lot different from the bubbles the elite live in. The elite are relegated to three neighborhoods for the most part, with the rest of the city being as different, from those bubbles as any other area of the country.
There also have been wars one by urban societies against rural ones (look at every barbarian invasion that failed). It's about the isolation of the elite more then it is urbanization.
Whatifalthist is constantly insinuating that American politics are between the rural poor and urban elites. The truth is the opposite: the average Democrat voter is poorer than the average Republican voter.
they isolate themselves away from the "peasants"
and in doing so ironically weakening themselves by making themselves ignorant of reality
Urban vs Rural is how Yugoslavia broke apart….
As a former New Yorker, I am curious. Which are the three neighborhoods where the elite live? In my day, it was Upper East (the only place you'll find a Republican/old money), Upper West (relatively new money/establishment Dems) and Brooklyn Heights (far-left technocrats/hipsters). Has there been a change?
@@jamesscarano7843 basically the same, expect with Brooklyn hights shifting more twords Park Slope.
It really sucks living in such hedonistic, nihilistic times.
You are living through history. What’s wrong with that?
Well it feels wrong because we think of history as some magical and peaceful thing...
@@georgetanner9381indeed😮
@@georgetanner9381lol history is violent and brutal as hell.
It's depressing honestly.
One of the most interesting things to me is how humans are always throughout history deeply “religious” about something. Traditionally in the West it’s been Christianity, but these days there’s a religious fervor for secularism, liberalism, social justice, personal political leanings. Many worship at the altar of the state or worship celebrities as idols. The “Cult of Ariana Grande,” the “Cult of Taylor Swift”, the “Cult of Elon Musk.” Celebrity worship has turned into a weird neo-pagan religion where many choose a patron deified human to worship. There’s also the rise of astrology, tarot, crystals, and many New Age beliefs.
In short, humans will always show a religious devotion to something. And I find that fascinating. The problem comes when the religious devotion is to something that is self-sabotaging. Worshipping Ariana Grande is a waste of time and energy and erodes self-esteem. There’s no use in many modern forms of religious devotion. There’s no truth to be extracted. And that’s part of why we’ve run into decadence.
People are just stupid.
Even atheists need religion. Their nonbelief is a total lie.
@@Cbd_7ohm no, it means religion played a really important role in evolution of mankind. It must play a very big role, otherwise it doesn't make sense. Heck, even chimps have something similar to quasi-religious rituals
@@Cbd_7ohm People are people, they aren't necessarily stupid neither smart.
Religion and all other beliefs are simply a means of rationalizing the irrational world. Whether they are true or not, it doesn't matter as long as people have a justification.
Are you even a whatifalthist viewer if you don't know that while Europe's share of the world economy has declined, the US has remained a stable quarter?
When the USA can print the Petro dollar, USA's decline appears stable.
LMFAO. Bro says that literally every video now.
@@remuj6457 but it's true
Rome's fall was pretty much inevitable once the Romans started relying more and more on German mercenaries rather than their own people to defend its borders. This pattern was later repeated with the Byzantines. The abandonment of the Theme system and the preference of foreign mercenaries (compounded by civil wars and political turmoil) led to its eventual decline and gradual fall as well.
What was the Theme System?
You are echoing the historical analysis of Ibn Khaldoun that Rudyard mentioned in the video. He wrote that decadent societies start to disdain and fear their populations and instead turn to slave or mercenary armies. He called the measure of a society’s virtue or decadence “Asabiyyah” if you want to read about it.
@@grahamturner2640 The Themes were military, administrative districts where the government granted lands to peasants who in turn provided troops to Constantinople, while also being able to use the wealth generated from said lands as part of their pay and to equip themselves. These soldier/farmers were placed under a Strategos, who had both military and civilian authority in the Theme. It began in the 7th century after Arab conquests stripped the Byzantines of most of their productive lands and forced them to make reforms to their military and economy in order to tie soldiers to their lands, giving them an incentive to fight to defend their lands. It fell out of use in later centuries as emperors became more reliant on Varangian and Latin mercenaries to fight their wars.
But why did Rome come to rely on the foederati for defense? It was because the patrician class had accumulated most of the wealth of the empire, and since they didn't pay taxes, there was no money to raise new legions when necessary.
Were the patricians stupid? No, they were consolidating their own local power. Also, they figured that even if Rome would fall, they could use their wealth to retain their power and influence in the states created by the Germanic peoples. And you know what? They were right: most of the nobility in France, Spain and Italy came from Roman patricians (even if they constantly claimed themselves to be Goths).
Are we seriously going to ignore the fact that both of those empires fell in civile war each time the emperor died (or 3 in the case of the Byzantine)? Or the fact that a large portion of the european provinces of the western part of the empire became unproductive and economically worthless after the climate change of the 3° century? Or the powerful enemies of the Byzantine?
We are definitely in the decadent stage right now and I suspect it will get worse before it gets better. Most people in the west nowadays are too focused on doing what feels good that they never stop to try and think about what is good.
In Rome's case the people had no reason to stop the barbarians, because Life in the Empire had gotten so bad
Kinda like the conquest of the Americas
@@cullenkehoe5184 life in the Roman empire was poorer than in the barbarian tribes.
if you were drarfted to the army you were effectively dead, there was no social mobility and tons of slaves, extremely high taxes, practically no free time, populations outside of Italy were constantly exploited and leadership changed every year and always tried to keep power instead of fixing anything. if you tried to conscript Italians they would just rebel instead.
Rome's fall wasn't decadence, it was not worth defending, the life for their citizens was hell in the end. why would you be proud of a country that treats you like a slave?
@@eVill420 thats what people forget about the fall of the western empire, it had more population than the east but it was poorer, life was awful and they relied on barbarian mercs to do the job, emperors couldn't do reforms as the reforms that came after the crisis of the 3rd century crippled Rome into a proto feudal state, giving everyone citizenship was also a mistake, now there was no carrot on the stick, only a stick, the reason why Iberia was taken over so easily was because the people didn't really care, you couldn't be a poorer peasant so it could only go up.
Western Rome in its last days was feudalism at its worst, thankfully for all romaboos the easy would survive for another 1000 years, dying the same way, feudalism cripples empires, and that 4th crusade essentially disarmed( and I mean it) a man who could only use his arms, but he could use them really well
Dioclesian reform, was an aberration....
Lol no. The reason the Roman empire declined was because of civil wars. The Empire was divided among Generals, each who wanted to rule it all
"Unless its a place like Brazil"
I love how our country exists to troll him
How else has Brazil trolled him?
@@grahamturner2640 In a lot of his videos he ends up making some comment about Brazil stating how it is in many ways an aberration from his comparisons. For example, Brazil is expected to become a powerful nation sometime this century (it's already grouped with other currently industrializing countries to form BRICS), yet at the same time Brazil also has a lot of poverty and slums. Or another way is that South American countries have borders that in his words "make too much sense", because one impetus for change across history is border conflict, yet because that doesn't really happen in South America, Brazil could have easily industrialized in the 1900s but didn't because there was no strong social force to do it, although that applies more so to Argentina. He's also jokingly stated that Brazil needs to stop disappointing him because Brazil is simultaneously doing really good and really bad, meaning there isn't really anything for him to talk about that can be generalized to create examples from like he can about 18th century France or 19th century Africa.
Brazil is a wild place
Are yall Communists down there?
He needs to come to Brazil
As a descendant of Scottish nobility, maybe I should get a title. On the other hand, I'm an American and thus against the concept of nobility. Then again, I do love trees.
The earl of pines?
Same
All I know is that watching a man read from a screen to a phone camera is the way I prefer to be advertised to.
Im brazilian i for the concept of nobility
Its technically treason to accept a foreign title, such as "Lord" on behalf of a foreign nation, as a U.S. citizen. Which I know is an obsolete law, but still...
I think your observation about pre-1940s, westerners were more interested in foreign cultures is absolutely true. Listening to old radio shows, the programs assume that the average listener knew not-so-basic Geography - the Llhasa pass, straits of Malacca, etc....and exotic locations were clearly attractive to audiences - they could never make such assumptions on modern tv programs...
I remember reading Ben hur I needed to constantly look up Wallace's references to Levantine culture. Wild that that was just to be expected of an average American back then
When every kid wants to grow up to be an ‘influencer’ and not president or an astronaut then we are kinda screwed
Very apt point
"TH-camr"
Wierd how in the USSR celebrities were scientists and astronauts but its placed as an example of a decadent society
@@aguspuig6615 well technically the Soviets was extremely decadent, if we use the definition in this presentation here which is more about diverging from reality and truth than it is necessarily about luxury. That said, you rarely hear people actually call the USSR _decadent,_ per se, and more so oppressive, cruel, vicious, soulless, inhuman, Kafkaesque, etc.
That said, of course in the real world people or political entities are not cartoon characters, in the sense that one and only one quality pervades all of their attributes. A society can be largely healthy but have a few decadent tendencies, and conversely just because a society is overall quite decadent doesn't mean that literally every single part of it is (e.g. Even when the ancient Chinese or Roman Empires were literally collapsing on themselves there were still pockets of competence and strength throughout, it's just that they were balanced out _on the net_ many times over by all the other shit)
The difference is marginal. All three serve the system's whims, and are largely just entertainers to a big show. What you'd want, is kids who want to be electricians, farmers, inventors, builders.
But do imagine the kids who answers "When I grow up, I want to spend 25% of my time filling out grants, 25% building up my social network, 25% on office duties; 24% on proper formatting, peer review and so forth, and the last 1% on trynig to figure out the universe and doing experiments to see whether I'm on to something"
Decadence is not exclusively about urban societies. I've read that the romans wrote that selling wine was the easiest way to passify the german frontier, and some powerful tribes supposedly even banned import of alcohol
That's funny
Native American tribes were murdered with alcohol which they have a genetic problem with.
the reservations in the states are full of drugys and achoholics
american settlers used the same tactivs on the natives…
That's still an urban decadence influencing a agrarian/rural culture, so you're first claim is wrong lol
as a westerner i would say decadence is the very word that describes the wests down fall its everywhere from our day to day lives of social disconnect and none stop consumerism to our political elite who idle on issues that threaten to ruin our world like global warming or the new rise of autocratic regimes to be quite frank its sad we have fallen this far but hopefully we can pull ourselves out of the mud and dust our selves of
i chose to be optimistic for the future how ever hard it may be
Yeah, we need to stop over-consumerism and global warming. But we dont need to start killing each other or start oppressing minorities, which is what far-right ideology means
@@adorabasilwinterpock6035 nothing i said had anything to do with killing anybody or oppressing minorities ?
and i am not trying to start argument what right wing ideology aside from radical fascism says we should just start killing each other and oppressing minorities hell not even fascism as bad as it may be preaches that we should just start killing each other
Actually I think the lack of a common enemy is the cause of Western decadence. Back when the Soviet Union was around there was an opposite anchor that channeled energies into productive activities like the Space Race. Now that extra funding just pads politician pockets.
global warming is not a threat to anyone, in fact most respectable scientists agree warming is a boon to the human species...
If you think this is really that bad, you should try traveling or actually having a real struggle in life.. people who live through thr world wars, great depression, real struggle around the world where people can't eat or drink clean water everyday or feel safe, that's real struggle.. not this made up BS people who live in the US and haven't seen real struggle think
Here's the short version: success breeds failure, failure breeds success...
“The chattering class is people who read the New York Times, watch Saturday Night Live”, and drink kombucha.” 🤣🤣🤣
As a Brazilian, you aren’t wrong. This is why we will always be the country of the future, and never the country of now
Well at least we can party like crazy, then go to other countries that are tired of parting, getting money and coming back to live in brazil with more money and thus more partying 🤑😎
@@andreborges842 verdade
Still better than Arg*ntina
@@Kazanov1936 vc tá falando verdade kkkk. Im a white Brazilian and I was still called a macaquito by one of them
@@steroidbaggins2936 isso aconteceu msm?? pqp qual foi a razão? eu tenho lido mt ultimamente sobre como os argentinos têm um complexo de superioridade, mas na moral n consigo ver de onde isso vem sendo q eles são pobres pra cacete como o resto do continente kkkkkk
I'm curently reading about the West's decline, written by a romanian writer who's been living in Paris for some time.
There was a conversation in the book about how the West should create a "science" out of decadence and decline, not to prevent it, as it is too late for the West, but to leave some ground rules for the next society to know of what to stay away from.
Thought it was interesting
Matei Visniec, The last days of the West is the name of the book
Indeed, leave some sort of documentation of what happen, because now, history is being re written, and all is being cancel, leave documents aobut history and what happen
>create a science out of decadence and decline, not to prevent it, as it is too late for the West
Asimov moment.
It’s probably inevitable though. Cause the new society would start off then get progressively worse and worse, get rid of history, not listen to the lessons from the one before it, then it would also crash. Just look at what’s happening now. Just my opinion I could be wrong obviously.
Oswald Spengler, The Decline and Fall of the West
There would be no point in leaving behind the blueprint to the downfall because if people cared to pay attention, there would be no push for communism
I can't overstate how impressed I am with your content and presentation. You provide hope for a man that was ready to abandon all that I had left for where we are collectively speeding towards so apathetic and recklessly. Perhaps there will come the rise of a few that are keen to set brushfires in the minds of his fellow man. Those hopefully will turn into the passions that burn bright and warm for generations to come that will need these fires for the darkness that just is. Cheers young man. You should be very proud of your work. It's outstanding, incredibly grounded for a twenty something year old, wise beyond your years, and also thought provoking for someone twenty or so years your senior. I feel as though I was a lot like you at that age, though not as well read, not nearly as ambitious, and certainly not as far reaching with my intellect but, I gather we both share commonality in seeming out of place for knowing and for caring. Cheers to you.
"Our society is sadly not overflowing with debauchery in 1920s style parties."
Noted
A bit funny... no? It's not the parties, but instead hook up culture and sitting at home watching Netflix or playing video games, porn is instead the youths finger tips, we do have licentiousness culture 🤔
@@popbasketball1696 I mean yes and no. The current generation is having historically low number of sexual encounters, and video games are an art form like any other (meaning it can be overabused like any other, but also provide great meaning and togetherness). I dunno, I feel like a part of our decadence is simply the sheer amount of choice we have now. Remember even a decade ago? EVERYone watched Game of Thrones. EVERYone knew what big cultural events were. And everyone had a shared sense of truth, at least more to a degree than we do now. I feel like the sheer amount of choice has made us so fractured. It's kind of hard to find things in common in a deep way because everyone's own view is so different. The pandemic and the lockdowns didn't help. Just my two cents.
There's still time tho 🤔
@@physetermacrocephalus2209 I'll await an invitation :)
@@nicholashandfield-jones1837 be the change you want to see and throw the parties you want to have
You cant think of a single war won by a more urban country against a rural one? Thats an insane claim for an historian to make mate.
Wherein both are technogically in par.
Vietnam was able to kick the Chinese out when both were in the same tech level in the late 70s
@@AureliusLaurentius1099 Germany and Russia WW1. Russian Civil War. American Civil War.
Also it’s basically cheating to only include examples where both sides are roughly on par, when you consider that an urban power is almost inherently going to be more technologically advanced than a rural one.
@Sumeet tanwar that's a really hamfisted stipulation to make. Naturally a more urban society is more advanced; its a marker of development.
I think he ment remote as in wild tribal horse fighters instead of rural farmers
@@ckhpersonal670 lol alright. I must have missed the wild tribal horse fighters part
I really feel Decadence is a good way to describe modern American culture. It’s an indulgence culture where instant gratification and shallow pleasure is of greater importance and more promoted than higher learning, moral living and noble ideals. I think we live in something akin to a free love future (in a bad way) and materialism and sexual pleasure is so rampant it’s destroying our young people.
You’re just wrong
More people are graduating than ever before, which the right thinks is a bad thing.
Young people are having less sex now than in the past, with fewer teenage and extramarital pregnancies.
Materialism and over-consumtion is destroying the world correct, yet the right denies climate change and opposes regulation.
Young people in wealthy societies are quite literally having the least sex in human history
@@anthonytitone Young men specifically.
@@anthonytitone Which is odd considering the amount of porn and sexual indulgence that’s glorified.
@@dylanbuchanan6511 not really, we live in the most alienated time in human history, children used to be raised by villages and now it’s 2 parents maybe 1, after high school most kids go far away from home and never return meaning we all have to actually find each other instead of just picking between the 25 people in the village who you grew up around your whole life
"You don't need a reason to be good. You don't need a reason to be alive. You don't need a reason to try to advance the human race, reach the stars, expand your nation. Life pushes on with its own logic."
This was actually very insightful and I feel like not enough people realize what you said. Or they do, but take it the wrong way.
Much of what you are explaining in this video is close to the "Anti-Fragile" theory of Nassim Taleb: in essence, too much comfort makes us weak and disconnected from reality and sets us up for failure; while living on the edge forces us to build our skill and preparation, thus improving survival rate.
Tell that to the most successful generation of well-adjusted, hardworking people we’ve ever seen produced by the USA’s richest 10%. Childhood adversity is a wood chipper that very few survive unscathed. Hard times don’t make hard men, otherwise the third world would have risen up decades ago. It’s fantastical thinking.
@@___.51 True.
@@___.51 Exactly. Everyone always ignores survivor bias, or they just don't care about who is left behind (most of the time this means poor and brown people)
I'm just bracing myself for the collapse of Western civilization.
@@___.51 Decadence seems to only truly occur in the upper class when kids are raised aren't raised by their parents to be hardworking or well-adjusted. When survival is guaranteed, people have to find new ways to fuel ambition and give purpose to their lives. If they don't, they just become depressed. A well raised child of a middle- or upper-class family is often more successful than even the best most gifted people from dysfunctional households.
Britain vs France isn't rural vs urban, it's parliamentarianism vs absolutism. And even then Napoleon gave the allies a run for their money based on his own form of revolutionary absolutism. Also 'rural' Russia could not have beaten Germany in WW2 without support from the US, and Germany thoughroughly beat 'rural' Russia in WW1 as it devolved into the various Russian revolutions. I think you are over-extending your thesis by only citing examples that support it and not looking for counter-examples. Makes for good TH-cam polemic but not a good argument.
And then he calls it a study.
Pretty much every video in this channel, I like to watch them but I think is better to see them as entertainment and not as educational content
@@diexor7967 I see there as good ideas to consider, but I never really take his conclusions too seriously. Just good to consider to build my own opinion. I also feel like he just inserts a rant about 'the left'/communism unnessarily to every video.
@@tobiasglendenning7966 I'd say the videos are good as seeds to reflect upon, not as a full on historical education, or accurate prediction. It's always important to challenge your own previous notions. I also agree with your observation on the ranting against 'the left'/communism. I view it mostly as just me getting extra rilled up at seeing the ideological tree I'm more attuned to getting criticized, but it also puts me in a position to criticize that it really isn't fair to treat 'the left' as some monolith.
Though the scope of a cultural anthropologist does tend to do that: sweeping, 'big picture' analysis that tend to overlook the countless 'micro-realities on the ground', so to speak. A useful perspective, but not the only one one should use, especially when you focus on flaws.
That’s the problem with his videos he singles out sources that he agrees with and matches his ideology and beliefs meaning his videos information are stunted by his lib right ideals
So the degeneration of American/western culture has caused the decadence. Your general solution to fix culture was with ‘faith’ and ‘honour’ but these are pretty vague. How exactly do you think we can fix American culture at this point other than politics?
Thought leaders, potentially new religions. It would take revolutionary fervor, though.
Perhaps we could do it the old fashion way. Go and speak and hope that others listen or start a rebellion. I don't think things have gotten bad enough to start a violent rebellion but perhaps one in other forms may do. Go out and protest more, support or don't support products, etc. Heck, maybe a sort of moral rebellion. In which people who want to restore honor and faith display those qualities to inspire others.
It's sort of already happening. Conservatives are saying "fuck it" to institutions and building their own.
@@steelballrunner636 Actions speak louder than words
@@thefool1086 Indeed
Decadence of society is the equivalent of that one person that lives alone and is a complete mess because no one is there to watch or punish
😊
Those India and China examples really made me think of how military service has been treated in Germany.
still strange that whatifalthist still hasn't read on New Qing History
To this day, those bad decisions against Turks have immense effect on the country because of the consequences It brought
I mean idk. I'm British and I never see soldiers here because our army is tiny and not well respected.
At the start of May I had a trip to Berlin and their were soldiers everywhere! Particularly around Berlin Hauptbanhoff station, there were Flecktarn-clad men with German flags on their shoulders all over the place.
I heard that this was because members of the military get free travel in Germany so they wear their uniforms out and about (which would be prohibited in Britain) to claim this benefit, but I never went to double check if this was true.
@@moritamikamikara3879 if true its a decadence, military should be training in ditches and mountains not parting in city.
@@moritamikamikara3879 Really depends where you live. I am from a military town (one of the largest barracks in the southeast) and there are military parades all the time and the military is held in pretty high regard. We used to have soldiers run training exercises right past our school on a daily basis. And just from a numbers/stats point of view, the UK military is way larger and more powerful than the germany military
"for intelligent people, seeing their societies fall into decadence is never fun..."
*shows a picture of Elon Musk*
On that, I'd argue that the dick-waving contest between Elon and Jeff Bezos over whose space program gets going first is a bigger sign of decadence than anything else
That really hit me hard, he's literally the modern day Thomas Edison stealing entire ideas and companies with buyouts
@@Fu3g0.100 No no, Thomas Edison at least invented an improved telegraph
@@Fu3g0.100 Edison was quite ahead of his time when it comes to business tho, so while being morally flawed he did facilitate progress. Elon's only hope when it comes to being beneficial to the society is that he does hype scientific leaps. Whether something good comes out of that, we have to wait and see.
Implies Elon Musk hasn't fun in a decadent society?
I always preferred Voltaire’s quote: “History is filled with the sound of silken slippers going downstairs, wooden shoes coming up.”
Silken slippers represent the decadence of the civilization. They make us soft, weak, and comfortable. The men wearing the wooden shoes are uncomfortable, they are blistered, calloused, cut up, hard men. They know pain and loss well, and death is so familiar it is not feared.
Do you know why our civilization worships youth? Why it hates aging? Because aging is the only way death comes to them. And they have no familiarity with death, so they fear it. They would rather pretend to be young to forget that death comes for us all.
Well said.
They also hate children, because real children bring up the dreaded prospect of responsibility, and remind them that they are not children, they are aging and will die, instead of remaining the adored, pampered youngsters forever.
Based AF
My problem with this is that frankly it feels like it's trying to create a narrative rather than necessarily seeing a historical pattern. Rome survived for centuries and even reached its greatest height *after* Nero and Caligula, and it wasn't the decadence of the ruling class that brought it down when it did fall; people forget just how ideologically extreme the French Revolution was (they even tried to do things like decimalise time), and the Republic never truly fell; in terms of putting "socially-constructed reality above actual reality" I point you to the centuries of religious chaos in Europe where countless thousands died and entire power blocs formed and wars were fought over absurd, meaningless doctrinal differences, during which European global power only increased. And during this time there plenty of ridiculous fashions and fads analogous to NFTs.
I generally agree with the sentiment.people are doom and gloom about the world rn, because people are hardwired to be pessimistic tbh.
The religious warfare wasn't really run by people out of touch nor was it a people becoming morally bankrupt. It is was more of a power and ideological struggle with people willing to die for their side and becoming more morally strict.
If European global power only increased then doctrinal differences were not "meaningless". Wars also were not absurd, if you gain power in result of them. Quite the opposite - Wars are for power.
@@wiktor6247 Right, but even by that logic, it is the power aspect that even justifies it, no the doctrine.
As far as I know the theories he is talking about are well established, you just would never hear anyone mention them in the modern world. Arguably decadence of the ruling class is a reflection of the decadence of the society as a whole, or maybe rather the decadence of the society as a whole is a reflection of decadence of the ruling class. There was a brief renewal in Rome, probably due to conflict, you had the 5 good emperors, but it didn't stop the decline. French revolution was so ideologically extreme as you say, yet we all accept its values today without question, isn't that an argument for decadence?
"I point you to the centuries of religious chaos in Europe where countless thousands died and entire power blocs formed and wars were fought over absurd, meaningless doctrinal differences, during which European global power only increased."
It's like you haven't watched the video. He talked about it. Also casus belli was often just an excuse, while the real underlying reason was a masculine, barbarian desire for conquest.
When Francis Fukuyama wrote the 'End of History' in the 90s you knew the collapse was just around the corner.
The world went on after Vanilla Ice, sadly.
"I can't think of a case where an urban society beat a rural one" what about the one million conquests of various savages at Rome's borders? How do you think urban societies get so rich and big in the first place?
e: Oh yeah, ACW too. Also all the European countries conquering the world back in the day.
Well, TBF, most of the military were in the rural areas.
Later on, Rome became dominated almost entirely by the military, meaning it became dominated by the rural frontier regions.
He did preface it with it being contingent on there not being a massive technological disparity between the 2
He's going hard on the Fremen Mirage
@@innosam123 it's still pretty Fremen Mirage. I highly recommend you look up on TH-cam ACOUP Fremen Mirage. He even mentions the Caesar claim made in the video
The conquering Roman armies were composed of land owning farmers. The later imperial legions were mostly a defensive maintenance force with a few notable exceptions. Bottom line is most of the empire was secured by farmers.
Better slideshow of art history than I actually got in my "college level" art history class. Keep kicking ass!
Most of his claims are false and too right-wing
@@DacLMK how? I’m asking because I’m curious
He has lifted this straight from wikipedia articles and far-right talking points. This isn’t history
@@adorabasilwinterpock6035 yeah totally, Rudyard doesn't read books at all...
@@viper5439 I swear that debate with vaush has attracted the groomer crowd now.
The number of people interested in what you have to say gives me hope for the the future of the world and the human race. Great job. You are an asset to us all.
6:17
Don't forget that post-Communist societies tend to follow a trend of depression and hopelessness for the future. It's not only an ineffective method of governance; it's also a murderer of the soul and spirit of the people.
No, post-communist societies experience a plundering of their state owned industries by a cartel of rich cronies and foreigners who sell all of the nation’s assets for personal profit… plunging the country further into poverty and souring the public’s overall outlook.
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 So... exactly what I said.
@@RotneybotOfficial You said the people’s hopelessness for the future resulted from communism “murdering their soul and spirit,” actually. In reality, it was rapid economic liberalization which caused the negative outlook. The exact opposite of what you said
That was the plan, Marx hated Christianity and God.
Heard about: extreme opposites touch? It's the same coin. Just a different side.
Considering what I read about history, I believe that the best way to delay complete decedance is to require would-be politicians to fight for office...in a duel to the death...initiated by a recall vote.
This would scare off individuals who value their life over duty for their country and discourage those who are already in power from undermining their own countries
Or make them fight in the army like the Romans and English.
Interesting thought, with the potential downside being that the system you describe would select for individuals with aptitude for violence. Each successful politician that holds office would essentially be a murderer, so it wouldn't be a great start to their career.
Larp
Or it would attract aggressive and disturbed people who would lead their country into war and brutality.
You would get violent psychopaths who dont value or care human life, not even their own one at all. Alternatively, suicidal people who have nothing to lose.
Basically,
Hard Times create Strong Mens, Strong Mens create Good Times, Good Times create Weak Mens, Weak Mens create Hard Times
Or hard men create bad times IE Putin. He's not exactly a weak man.
@@idleishde6124 Idk but it feels like there's a decadence factor playing here, his confident that his plan would work and thought that the operation would be easy, and in reality it's not
@@idleishde6124 He is weak in moral fiber and intelligence. He is a fool for assuming that Russia is still as mighty as it once was and, because of that, he started a conflict that he probably won't win and even if he does take over Ukraine, he has ostracized Russia from the world stage without the power to back it up. He got overconfident and decadent in his narion's power and so Russia will pay the price. Now Russia is at an increased risk of failing economically and politically. People typically don't want to work for a villain, much less a weak one.
Inspire so that others seek new opportunities
“Tale as old as time, history that always rhymes, decadent weak men & the societal collapse!” 🎶 🤣😂
This reminds me of somthing, for absolutely no reason at all, my mind seems to remember a certain line of dialogue from Batman Dark Nigth Rises, when Batman and Bane figth for the first time in the sewers and Bane says:
"Peace has cost you your strength, victory has defeated you"
Despite not waching the movie in months, I cant get the quote out of my head
Little known and rather obscure fact but Song Dynasty China, it was the first country where Restaurants came to exist. Centuries before Restaurants came to exist in France.
Hence, If your country has a restaurateur culture...you live in a decadent society.
song was all about innovation and social mobility
The romans has restaurants where they would serve hot meals to customers, you can visit them in Pompeii
the Song were absolutists that discouraged actual military merit for fear of treason/rebellion (Which was what ended the Tang)
@@stormaflu4632 No they didn't, the difference between Rome and Song Dynasty China/French Restaurants is a personal written menu and sitting at the establishment and meals being made to order. As opposed to Rome where the establishment had a predetermined repertoire of items that the clientele picked from. Know it seem abritary but thats really what makes a restaurant a restaurant. What Rome had is akin to a McDonald's or that place at Costco where you can get hotdogs and pizza slices and you wouldn't describe that establishment as a "restaurant." I see where you would be mistaken because the word restaurant has been broaden to include American-style Dinners, Café so on and so forth.
@@sinoroman I would say the Song were so incredibly advance for their time. That if Song Dynasty China never fell it could've been the first Industrialized nation. Imagine Fire Nation from Avatar.
Edit: the Channel Cool History Bros has a video on this topic if *You would like to know more*
I feel like in modern societies, even in the "less decadent" east, Middle East, and Africa, there are pockets of extreme decadence(Dubai, Gangnam, Shibuya to name a few) . are the key is CAN the non-decadent, realistic people wrestle power from the detached "elites". I almost worry for the whole world because the decadent LA socialites in Hollywood(who are probably some of the most detached and isolated people in the world, and of course, their eastern Equivalents such as KPop, Bollywood,) are the mainstream entertainment across the world, and the most decadent people are in control of the "world police", this is why we need decentralization and smaller government, stop trusting academia and media, buy local, and make more independent media
"society becomes a giant court where people try to fake agreeability and kindness to gain allies rather than a war band (sp?)people speak and act plainly"
28:50
"always know that the world's a complicated place and try to view the world through the eyes of a foreigner or an 11 year old."
that really resonated and seems like good practical advice
As Always, an over simplistic view about India, True that Indian rulers did not reform their armies, did not have outposts but the reality of the situation is they couldn't because they were more like lords, they did not have resources, they had to call upon other feudal lords to raise a not so professional army, and there is no evidence that they built temples to appease gods to save them from invaders, they restored temples that were destroyed during invasions, don't know why you make this up.
A people that loses their martial spirit is a people ready to be conquered.
A hippie in a Van would kill dozens of Celts
Ban guns.
Decadence is what pop-historians turn to when they don't want to look at more complicated factors in the decline of nations
proof?
@@karlnord1429 naw im good
such as?
Either diluted or Marxist.
@@FallingPicturesProductions Diluted?
Decadence is when you seek self pleasure above production at the expense of society.
Those 30 mins felt like 3. Great video!
Oh look, a verified account
They felt like 30 Minutes
They did feel like 30 min, but i’d say this is one of his better videos. It was very clear and entertaining.
@@thebarber4397 what's a verified account? Some kind of CCP shill thing?
I need an hour to digest 30 min... then i listen again
Ah, just the video I needed.
I am saddened by the realization that we have been decadent since the boomer generation, if not all time after world war two.
We’ll be fine, it’s the Europeans you should be worried about
@@stormaflu4632 Capitalist Pig!
-Fidel Castro
@@stormaflu4632 we won’t be unless we start making a conscious choice to reject the decadence.
Europe might be already done for, but the US has a chance, but only A CHANCE, not some sort of pre-determined destiny.
@@stormaflu4632 I can’t hear you over the sound of my free healthcare, evidence based decision making and consesus driven politics. We’re so much better than America. Enjoy your culture war. My tip? Have some sex, enjoy life, treat others with kindness.
@@egorkhristov2467 maybe they'll come here.
It's the best chance they have, maybe.
I'm seeing a couple of cases where there's a selection bias in the data set. For example, any look at the contemporary celebrities in a society at a present moment an apples to oranges comparison with the celebrities of the past who are known today, because the historical celebrities have been filtered by time and social memory. Shakespeare had numerous contemporaries that barely anyone other than a scholar of the time would be able to name. Those with impactful legacies are remembered while those who were popular but frivolous are forgotten.
That's a good response Michael
Pretty much all of the video is selection bias, he even states at the end that the idea came up when he visited Los angeles and thought it was decadent so he went and cherry picked which examples from history would prove his premise.
@@moipessoa7145 Why would he pick things that aren't decadent...for a video specifically on decadence?
@@thw_paragon6793 They mean that decadence isn't the problem in real life that he's projected it to mean. At the 25 minute mark he describes the decadence of Republican Rome as ultimately destroying the Roman empire... **Four Hundred Years** later(!?)
Not to mention the amount of outreach celebrities have today compares to older times due to technology and people having a lot more leisure time than before
“Decadence comes from when man turn away from the stars instead drowns himself in wine” off the top glad to be alive to hear this, it just clicks 💡💡
I feel there is a little bit of a shell game between ideology and economics being played here. A lot of shade thrown at decedent "educated/liberal" elites, but little at the actual material elites. As per Turchin's elite competition, the local sociology teacher didn't cripple the local utilities because they needed the additional profits to get their relatives into X school or trust funds. Take the current war with Russia, the people who hooked us completely to Russia did so for hard cash, not lefty ideas. If ignoring reality is decadence, that counts just as much whether your so full of self-loathing you can't see the strengths of your own society, or strategically weakening your own society because the antagonistic rival one pays more and you need that money for extreme displays of wealth.
That's true. But most of those are usually the descendants of actual material elites, and on top of that much of it. On top of that, it's still the lefty elites who are voting for that war as it's become a court-like scenario with fake manners and fake virtues. Also that local sociology professor usually votes to make said utility more expensive which hurts the poor.
Mississippi is a shithole, GOP run by the Koch Brothers, literal Nazis
(Turkey) My family owns 3 houses and 1 shop and we are collecting rent from all of them, but we still can barely afford eating meat regularly and try to not drive car because oil is expensive and we often don't have any money left at the end of the month. Think of the poor of my country. We also host the biggest number of refugees in the world and in some places in Istanbul you have to try your hardest to find someone who speaks Turkish.
While all of these are happening, our political elite build giant palaces, mosques or airports that nobody uses to our smallest provinces and eat desserts that are more expensive than my house in a single day. I don't know when our collapse is, but I'm sure it can't be as annoying as the status quo.
I am fairly certain that if Erdogan just raised interest rates, that would help with inflation and improve peoples lives (see Economics Explained youtube channel). In general I think that Turkey has a bright future ahead, they just need to get rid of Erdogan, as well as other politicians like him and try harder to get into the EU
@@glendisshiko8182 Getting into EU is impossible. First of all, if we got into the EU we would be the most populous country in EU, which would change its internal balance drastically, so France and Germany wouldn't really want us. Then, EU won't allow us without us sacrificing Cyprus, which isn't going to happen. I mean, even if we actually sacrificed Cyprus, South Cyprus wouldn't want North Cyprus back. Also being an EU member would be a bit nice for economy and democracy, but we'd be giving away some national sovereignity and our potential as a big player in international politics.
And Erdoğan didn't raise interest rates, he did something similar which didn't really work.
@@kmmmsyr9883 Never say Never! EU expansion is mainly motivated by the desire to expand the common market and Turkey does have a very large internal market that would interest France and Germany. As for Cyprus, well special exceptions have been in the past for countries to join the EU and I believe something could be arranged
You say that lack of religion makes societies decadent while saying that indians built temples instead of reforming their armies clearly contraficting yourself.
also the whole "searching for wisdom in old texts" is so weird. Like when the asians do it its dumb but, when Christians do it its good?
Each society has a different form of decadence , that one pillar crashes down and It causes the entire thing to collapse.
How can anybody watch this video and come away thinking "Yes, this is coherent!"????
It's called being able to understand complex ideas.
@@genericperson8354 This is even more baffling. This entire video is drug induced rambling with fucking hillarious maps, the most complex thing about understanding this video is understanding what he's even trying to say
@@genericperson8354 Such complex ideas as "Marxism is when you lie"
Have you watched anything WhatIfAltHist says? He literally said that during a debate with Vaush
@@danielschnitzer7044 It's essentially just explaining the "easy times create soft men", idk not that complicated in my opinion
The funniest thing about your thesis on decadence is, when modern people think of modern degeneracy it takes the form of society being oversexualized and full of carnal vices, when in reality that tends to better describe the barbaric stages of society.
yeah, we just, for some reason still hold on to those wierd christian values were anything sexual is decadent and something to be repressed, i mean thats why almost any kind of sex is considered ''kinky''.
The problem is that they are barbaric stages of society but without nature's punishments on overindulgence of those things because of the system's social services
Just look at the most popular music and movies/tv shows that the west consumes, its delusional to think society is not getting more degenerate. Barbaric society have a greater sense of communal honor, if someone was to bring shame or dishonor in a barbaric society they could be killed or exiled
The start is similar to the end.
At the start, the powerful do what they will, so they seize the world's fruits and indulge their passions.
The civilisation stage is when the chaos of barbarians is tamed for the sake of the common man, and a social contract is made.
Towards the end, the powerful in the society are isolated in their Epicurean bubbles of luxury, and so they purchase the world's fruits, and indulge their passions.
The powerful will always exist, and they will always be able to do what they want. The difference between barbarians and aristocrats is that powerful barbarians have real power, built on their own physical and mental virtues, whereas the aristocrats have socially constructed power, which depends on everyone else respecting the system.
Hence, the common man can revolt against the bourgeoisie, but not against the warrior class.
" i can't think of an example where an urban country beat a rural one" .. this bodes well for the next American Civil War and freedom , the big divide in America is not red v blue, its urban v rural, although admittedly you could mostly map red v blue on top of urban v rural. It's like two different worlds.
If rural America really was determined as a socity to separate itself from urban America, I don't see the later having the means to prevent it.
But also, I don't see that they would have much interest in making genuine efforts to do so. It'd be good riddance.
In the event of a new American Civil War both sides lose. The urban and suburban regions get starved out, the rural regions are all too aged to replenish losses in a war.
@Nathan Like in Vietnam and Afghanistan?
I’m copying this transcript and saving it somewhere. This was amazing and so well put together. A million times thank you for this and your work.
Where can you find a transcript at for this ?
@@thomasmitchell4128 Go into the description and click “show transcript”
@@Samuel-ln2fc I'll give it a look , thanks
This shit is pulled from wikipedia, together with right wing talking points. Its nonsense
I highly recommend you check out ACOUP fremen mirage if you liked this video
A detachment from reality where the focus has shifted to things that dont matter. From starving to which caviar is best.
"The Conquistadores really did fuck..." As a New World Spaniard, I love this.
How you described India at 20:00 seems very similar to modern China. They're even starting to ban overseas travel!
when banning things is the only thing the ruler knows how to do any more...
... he will try to solve all problems by banning everything...
edit: actually i think the difference between Xi and Deng/Mao is:
Deng/Mao fought in the trenches and went through personal hardships, they were not afraid to die for what they believed in...
so they are not afraid of taking big risks re grand strategy
Xi grew up in a peaceful period, he probably is more risk adverse and just dont want to lose what he already has...
Well, it is a bit more complex. In the 1st Millennium AD, Merchant Guilds had gained significant power and prestige in India. As such, the next 200 years saw a collaboration between the Bramhins and Kshatriyas to reduce the power of the Vaishyas
I went to the University of California, and it's not an "ideological indoctrination camp". There was a mainstream of ideology, but the majority of students hosted their quiet objections to it and payed it little attention. Only in a select few (highly ridiculed) departments in the system are overtly ideological. They have a strong grip over the profession of law, because basically all of the writing classes are explicitly based on social justice prompts (a result of the "silence is violence" dogma, professors aren't allowed NOT to at least nudge their students in a particular direction via what prompts and writings are chosen). But they have basically no influence in STEM fields. The only real SJW movement in STEM at UC is "women in STEM", and most of those women in STEM have little interest in ideology.
Highly agree. I'm a STEM student at a 2nd tier british university and other than the occasional poster/email about "gender and marxism" or the like I haven't noticed any "ideological indoctrination". If you're doing gender studies or anthropology or something then sure, but these degrees don't really get you into the elite any more in the same way that a STEM degree will
This!!! Maybe I’ve been lucky, but I’ve met very few people (even literal socialists) who are unwilling to sit down and have a conversation at the school I go to
Yeah, and the fish doesn't know what water is.
The lie that colleges are indoctrinating students is a lie that arose because most hard-core conservatives simply aren’t very smart, and certinly can’t intelligently defend their prejudices. Which is why they choose to attack colleges instead of engaging in some very needed introspection
@@ericmckinley7985 the Young Republicans club on campus sure does
I’m 42 and I never thought I’d find a 23 year this fascinating.
If you want an example of a more urban "country" beating a more rural one... how about the American Civil War? The Union was significantly more urbanized than the Confederacy, which gave them a lot more people and resources... and they were somehow able to get the population to buy in like a less-urbanized society, which allowed them to take advantage of it.
Industry. Union had a technological advantage.
"There are no examples of urban beating rural" = "Urban cultures tend to be less effective at war than rural ones"
If you translate his hyperbolic speech made for inciting comments, then most of his videos seem mostly agreeable. Take everything he says with a grain of salt since this is after all a business based on inciting views.
@@bitcoinzoomer9994 Urban cultures /usually/ have the technological advantage but eventually run into problems due to motivation (see: USSR vs. Afghanistan).
Anyway, considering the exceptions that prove the rule is a great way of strengthening a rule. The difference between the Union vs. Confederacy conflict and, say, USSR vs. Afghanistan isn't the technological difference; the Confederates were way closer to the Union than the Afghanis were to the USSR.
Rather, the difference is that while urban cultures usually bear higher costs in war (due to both higher opportunity costs and to much larger infrastructure risks), the Union's cost/benefit analysis was greatly impacted by ideological motivations -- "as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free," as the song goes -- which made available the sort of scorched earth tactic that wouldn't make sense for anyone interested in financial gain.
Looking at another exception that proves the rule -- Desert Storm -- shows some similar elements. Most obviously, the coalition's technological and tactical advantages in the arena of conventional warfare were so great in that case that it was more of a turkey shoot than a war; the coalition faced basically zero infrastructure risks and the difference in opportunity cost was easily overwhelmed by the difference in direct losses. Even so, it's likely that even that sort of war wouldn't have worked in the absence of a crusading spirit directed towards the enforcement of international norms regardless of the financial cost.
Decadence provides a second analytical angle that's interesting in both cases. Urban cultures, being further removed from natural competition, tend to suffer higher levels of decadence. But that's not the case in either the Union vs. Confederacy and Desert Storm conflicts. The Union's industrialization wasn't just a technological advantage; it was a manifestation of a greater willingness to compete, in contrast to the Confederacy's reality-defying reliance on slave power. Likewise, the authoritarian nature of the Saddam regime likely left the Iraqi military more detached from reality than the coalition they were facing.
The South punched way above their weight considering their smaller military and much poorer infrastructure. That it came down to Gettysburg shows the value of his point. It never should've been that close.
@@ninja0406 How much of that came down to the Confederacy fighting primarily on their own turf? The Union was effectively an invading force, and invading an enemy's territory requires a multiple times' advantage to be successful regardless of urban vs. rural effects. It's hard to imagine the converse scenario -- Confederacy attempts to take Union territory back after secession -- turning out even close for the Confederates.
@@ikkinwithattitude The Soviet failure in Afghanistan was probably much more related to the material conditions of the economy (big oil bubble burst when they were all in on paying for things with petro-rubles) than any particular cultural feeling on the part of soviet soldiers.
Before considering ways to oppose decadence and decline I think you need to establish that permanent civilisations are superior than cyclic ones. It is quite possible grand cycles of growth, death and renewal are the optimum model overall.
Europe seems to have skipped a cycle in the 1500s, and that worked out for them. Plus I have a hard time seeing how dying by barbarian conquest in any way could be some kind of long term investment.
Yeah not sure what you mean here
@@buddermonger2000 There has never been an eternal, stable civilisation. Existing in that state might come with unanticipated disadvantages. We already know that societies that go through cycles of growth and decay tend to pull ahead of and dominate cultures that are less dynamic over time.
@@haldanebdoyle How do we know that and where have you pulled that from? What is your evidence here?
The fuck kind of permanent civilizations exist? China and India went through lots of cultural refreshes and reboots that their histories can be cleanly divided into eras. France and England have only been around for a millennium and a half, and the only thing keeping the two of them alive past the early 20th century is being close allies with the biggest military industrial complex in the world.
Given that the nature of life is to persist, I believe that virtues are no more than social equivalents of the same cohesive behaviors responsible for the sustainability of any system
The nature of life is to die, there is no other "purpose".
@@roadbone1941 If dying is the purpose of life, why live? Is living not more common to life than dying?
@@westganton tf happened to you franklin?
I often pause your videos because the maps you show are SO interesting I LOVE maps!!
"Even the witchtrials were an effective darwinistic way of wheeling out the non-breedable woman..."
What?!
Some historians believe that the witches were overwhelmingly unattractive, older woman denounced by hotter, younger woman. And that the patriarchy went with it because they had no interest in breeding with the "witches".
Ed Dutton, The Jolly Heretic, explains this:
th-cam.com/video/-SM3Zui_T_k/w-d-xo.html
Whatifalthist is a Conservative like Roy Moore and the Jan 6th Terrorist. They are all Racist, Misogynistic and Religious
Basically, mob doesn't like woman because she doesn't fit in, so kill her. If twitter mobs could kill "racist" white men, it'd be the same. Just getting rid of what the people think are undesirables.
He wasn't saying it's good.
5:44 I am no marxist, but what you wrote there is complete BS on so many levels.
First of all you have a pretty skewed view of what marxism and leftism are. Most leftists, both marxists and non marxists alike, would probably agree with the impact Christianity had on the development of (Western) Europe and North America and are discussing it to this day, for example when they talk about Max Weber and the topic of the "protestant workethic" (btw you can find dozens of videos on YT discussing this).
Sadly the next example you give is neither (predominantly) christian or western: Japan. What played a much larger role in the democratization of Germany and Japan than their supposed "christian" influence, is that they lost a war they started, after they were forced into it by a facist military dictatorship, that destroyed their first atempt at democracy. Meaning, there was support in the populace for democracy, combined with viewing the Allies/US as liberators. Another factor is that both countries were completely destroyed by the war, lost millions of people and received massive financial support.
Iraq and Afghanistan were nothing like this. The most notably is the way the US (and its allies) were viewed. I give you a tip: not positively.
Your analysis is lacking in nuance and I think you should stop making broad statements about history and societies in this manner. Huge meta narratives and global prognosises are often incorrect, which is the one thing marxism can actually be criticised for (although when we look at this aspect of Marx' writing we probably have to read it more philosophically than scientifically and it does not take away from his analysis). It is unhelpful to the work of historians and leads to confirmation bias and looking for things that arent there.
An excellent example of Roman Decadence done disturbingly similar to Bioshock’s Dr. Steinmann is when Imperator Nero forced a random servant to have all his male intimates cut off and then was forced to be his slave wife.
So yeah pretty disturbing example of Roman decadence in the malicious interpretation of Art meeting Biology/Medical “Science.”
I wouldn't take Suetonius at face value. Best to view it as a Roman version of OK magazine
@@thomasdaylewis9379 Agreed :)
If you like this, I highly recommend you watch on TH-cam ACOUP Fremen Mirage. it's written by a historian. he covers Rome, the Germanic tribes and Gauls all within this context
@@ManiacMayhem7256 Thank you for the recommendation.
Had the Roman Republic gotten the same then Bioshock did it would have colonized outer space
I watched the movie "The Bird Box" recently for the first time, and while it was OK as entertainment, I realize that the main perturbing element - strange visions that encourage humans to look at them and which then cause the looker to commit suicide - is similar in a lot of ways to how you said decadence eventually forces people to "see" it and take part in this self-defeating behavior.
Also, interestingly, in this apocalyptic tale with undeniable divine underpinnings, there are certain humans who see the visions and do NOT go mad because they were already crazy to begin with and they WANT to see these evil visions. Those crazy people are moved to make the rest of the world LOOK at the visions, forcefully "converting" those who try to avoid seeing it. Modern society is full of people like this who actively and willfully recruit others to the cause of decadence.
One thing to pay attention in that movie is see who kills themselves and who goes crazy. Hint, only one race goes crazy.
"something that may shock people is that i think the modern west is headed in the same direction"
This will shock nobody pop-historians have been claiming this stuff forever
I have an odd feeling halfway through the video I’m going to stop hearing decadence as a word but a sound
fairly certain i havent seen a video of this guy where he doesn't flagrantly strawman some group of people.
I was going to watch the video but I had a sudden doctors appointment in 20 minutes.
Nationalism is us vs them and thrives on a society being under a current and tangible threat. If no such threat exists, which is a good thing, then people become less
patriotic, which is historically a bad thing, so I guess there's no winning. Also the problem isn't per say not being down to earth or todays leaders being less natural, it's simply about scale, competitions of popularity is simply because not the general populace nor anyone for that matter really knows the right course of action to effectively manage so many people. Finding food or conquering your neighbor is simply more straightforward, innate and less abstract than managing the economy or upholding human rights. Please correct me where I am wrong as I am not an historian.
Your sponsorship is a form of positive decadence I realized. Crazy
I think the word "based" is extremely important. It means "based in reality", or something similar, and it is a way of praising someone who speaks against convention by telling the truth. Advocating harsh policies that work is based, for example. The same is true of the red pill and blue pill meme; would you rather live in the truth, and struggle, or live a lie but not worry?
Actually based.
It actually means "uses LSD". The term "based" comes from rapper Lil B (aka BasedGod) and he said it refers to "base heads" which is a slang term for someone who uses LSD frequently. I'd guess the colloquial meaning comes from the effect LSD sometimes has of cutting through the surface-level socially-enforced thought patterns-- which is why the US government became terrified of it during Vietnam.
@@simex909 It can have multiple meanings. A base is a foundation, something rooted in a fundamental truth. That which acknowledges fundamental reality is therefore "based".
Nah, based just means owning the libs
@@alexgomez2731 Okay gomez
from time to time i think of a quote from interstellar. in the movie it is said by mccounaghey‘s characters dad and it is said just so subtly that probably most people missed it entirely.
in the scene him and his son look up to the sky, talking about humanitys future, when he says:
„8 billion people. and each of them wanted to have everything.“
greed is what will destroy us in the end…
Decadence
Noun
"moral or cultural decline as characterized by excessive indulgence in pleasure or luxury."
Just as Europe lives in an Apollonian age so does WIAH's channel as it enters an age of decadence
We've gone from the barbaric age (making althists) to a civilized age (making both althists and geopol) then finally to a period of glutony (the current state of the channel)
Lol
No, I would say this is the civilized age. He is focusing on the broader aspects of human society and civilization in the modern day instead of just looking into the past through his althists. His decadence is not upon us yet.
Oops, someone heard something they didn’t like…cuts too close eh?
This feels quite exact. While Europe is in no way as powerful on a global scale as it was pre World Wars, that doesn’t mean it has decayed to the point of the Roman Empire near its end. Honestly, ever time I hear one of his videos, the claim he had of being center right slides further and further rightwards in all our disdain for Europe and social justice
@@porterwayman8643 glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks that WIAH has been getting more biased with each video
I feel like this one's a miss, chief. Urban societies beat rural ones often, hell in your example Germany pushed russia's shit in during both great wars, even soviet leadership admitted that american lend-lease is what kept them in the war. That and you give america a bit too much credit on the latter section. As a non-westerner who's been all over the west, you're practically indistinguishable in terms of decadence.
I’m a big fan of this channel but the idea that Europe became decadent because it became less religious is just lazy. Your videos are always so insightful, thought provoking and well researched. This one just misses the mark.
I’m not anti religious and I watched another one of you videos with posed that Christianity moved humans away from being shame based to guilt based. Further how this transition greatly benefited western societies. This was such a profound perspective, it’s brilliant. I guess my point is, religion has had a massive and highly positive effect on humans, societies and the world it just feels lazy in this context
Urban societies only beat rural ones so long as they are functioning properly.
@@Faustiangemerald Well that's not what he's discussing
Yes and no
The US lost in Afghanistan. I think if the Urban one somewhat functional i think the better term is industrial. Also the insurgency warfare has many factors to it
I see more people disagreeing here than in any other WhatIfalThis video
decadence is a loaded and nebulous term that doesn't have a CLEAR quantifiable or even qualitative definition. It's also been a right wing talking point for the past 60 years to harp about Western decadence and the upcoming collapse.
Havent watched the video yet, but I have always thought he made his weakest points when he brought up decadence in other videos.
Vaush shitlib cope squad was alerted thats why
The topic hits too close to home considering elements of decay continue to make themselves known AND most of the west's culture is heavily influenced by Christian guilt complex. Combine that with a few frankly silly claims and it's the perfect breeding ground for a fight.