I recently been reading light novels and notice that the storytelling style is a lot more tolerant of telling versus showing. I really like that since I struggle to show things.
Honestly... Anime, JRPGs and table top games inspired all the fiction I ever wrote as a hobby more than I realized early on. Always a delight to see this sort of thing spoken about.
I agree that a huge difference is the characters. Mangas and animes allow us to actually get close to the characters and go on a journey with them. Time is taken to make the characters come alive, to let us understand their voice, feelings, motives, and relationships. By the time we get to the end we're sad to see them go. The same can be said for a few western characters, but for the most part, western leads are just plot movers that look flashy or "cool". My favorite thing about anime tho is use of theme. The stories feel so impactful cuz the characters, world, and imagry are all built around a theme, something we rarely see in western stories; or if we do it's not fully realized.
We do see theme in western stories, but I agree it's not usually in properties aimed at kids and teens. And many live action films are just action hero schlock. Scavenger's Reign is a great example of an animated show that takes the themes of life, survival, and determination , and packages them in beautiful animation, unique setting and immersive world.
You remind me of my early days on the internet and finding out about how edited the shows where that I was watching. I spent a lot of time on fansites and looking up fanart and fanfiction. So relatable to how I felt myself growing up. I felt like I had people that I belonged with when reading manga and through that I found people online that were like me. I felt like I had to hide that I liked anime/manga because that was considered for 'boys' or little kids where I was and I already liked gaming and science fiction which was considered 'for boys'
I recall reading that the staff of Mobile Suit Gundam were surprised by how many female fans the show had. But if you create a character as gorgeous and as emotionally complex as Char Aznable, you can't be surprised when EVERYONE loves him!
I was born in '82. Everything in this video was so familiar. Dragon Ball and Akira were my introduction to anime. Along with Robot Carnival, Project A-Ko, Green Legend Ran, Iria: Zeiram the Animation and whatever else was airing on the Sci-Fi Channel (now Syfy) at the time.
Lodoss War has some amazing songs too, I still listen to the soundtrack of that one! Some of those 90s anime themes were just SO good. One thing I've noticed about my work is that my characters often have a very individualistic, American mindset...but they can ultimately only get anywhere through a more Japanese structure of finding a group, friendship and loyalty. I think there are some really interesting stories in the between-space of these two sets of themes and structures...
Never thought about how anime storytelling vs western styles has affected a lot of writers- and readers for that matter. Thanks for going into how it affected your stories.
Thank you so much for doing this video! Being a 90s kid, my creative inspiration was always pulled from anime. Exposure to anime truly opened up my creativity and helped shape my imagination❤❤(Sailor Moon was my entire life! Along with Pokémon!) Love how much I see myself in you!
I'm having flashbacks to the early 2000s and writing my self-insert fanfics about all the bad boy bishies whom I could totally woo and change with my irresistible personality and incomparable power. Loved this video and topic!!
I first saw Sailor Moon. This was my introductory to Anime. It was such good storytelling compared to the cartoons we had. I am a 38 year old man. I introduced my younger sister to it as well.
I didn't grow up watching anime or reading manga. That changed shortly after I started finding my way around online. I had started doing a webcomic back in 2001, it was quite a bit easier to get a following back then, and word of mouth did wonders. Quite a few of my first fans/readers were folks also into anime and manga. They would talk in forums about other things they were reading, some commented to similarities in my own work to stuff they had seen in anime, and other things like that. Once I had enough people mention various anime to me, I had finally decided to dive in and find out what it was all about. I ended up really taking to the slice-of-life story style, be it normal or paranormal based, I ended up really enjoying that. My own work being a slice-of-paranormal-life. I have noticed that all too many Western films and tv seem rushed by comparison to Japanese storytelling.
I've been looking into xianxia (Chinese HIgh Fantasy) cultivation stories recently, and I'm so amazed that there's this whole tradition of fantasy storytelling that developed pretty much completely independent of Western influences. I'm pretty stoked to see what I can learn about writing from these kinds of stories
I also spent my teenage years in the nineties with anime and manga. But now many years later it was a chinese anime 'grandmaster of demonic cultivation' (and the webnovel and the life action version) that hooked me. It was so beyond western media's conventions and extremely dramatic and fun and fresh, that it really made me want to write again. 😊
Thank you for the video! It's so crazy to believe I used to hide my love for anime, and it's mainstream now. The biggest difference I noticed between western shows and anime as a kid was the stakes. They seemed to be so much higher. In Dragonball Z, characters DIED. That never happened in Western stories or "kids" shows, and it captivated me.
"Maybe you're only normal in Japan." 🤣 I felt that one in my soul. All the pretty androgynous men with tragic backstories, but still with major butt-kicking abilities, definitely altered my perceptions of a lot of things regarding gender norms. And affected the way I write. And I've been absorbing anime/manga sensibilities since I was 8. "Record of Lodoss War" was my first series, but "Sailor Moon" was right after. My kids are both pre-teens and we watch a lot of anime. And because of that, they find a lot of "Western" media boring because so many of our movies and TV follow the "hero's journey" structure. With so much kishotenketsu style structure in anime, they prefer the twisty unpredictability. As a horror lover: Asian horror is definitely seeping more into Western horror. In novels, especially. Body horror and "transformation" style horror, if it's done really well, tends to very heavily dip from the pot of Junji Ito. Maybe that's just because I love his work, so I see the parallels.
Sailor Moon affected me in such a deep way i can't even begin to describe it, and it makes sense now why I always want quiet introspective moments in my stories lmao Editing to say: A lot of horror games made by Japanese developers actually entirely influenced how I see horror even if I don't write it. A lot of the hallmarks of the early Survival Horror Genre put women and the fears of being a woman at the center of the horror even if unknowingly. Games like Resident Evil and Fatal Frame and Haunting Ground to me directly imply that being a woman in a horror scenario is the scariest, because you have the least protection. its FASCINATING.
character inner journey and sprinkled with slice of life 💛 That's the biggest mark on how anime/manga storytelling influenced my writing as well. And i would get so much flack in writer groups about how "it's too slow, not plot relevant, takes too long to get to the inciting incident" 😿 but i didn't like stories that are high pace all the time, gotta be dropped in the midst of conflict on page 1. I don't know the characters enough to care with that kind of storytelling! It was a really frustrating start into trying to become a serious writer, because i knew the kinds of slower, more reflective stories that i enjoyed were out there and were popular, just in a different medium. The great and tragic irony is that my introduction to anime wasn't sailor moon or hamtaro, but was pokemon and card captors 🥰 and i liked it. Had this weird kind of magic, more about the journey than the eventual destination, and balanced the cozy with the action/adventure. A lot of the anime i consumed had this idea of "you can cry when you're sad/upset and still be a bad ass who gets 💩done" which was a comfort compared to a lot of other stories where the character was this chosen one and no longer had time for being normal. I think that's why i loved Kim Possible so much 😼 basic average girl who's here to save the world, fighting villains while also struggling with certain things in school or social circles and getting embarrassed Anime wasn't afraid to explore the weird, and we love it ❤🔥💕
Yes, the crying and then getting to work is so relatable! I loved how much Sailor Moon cried and whined, honestly... & Pokemon and Card Captors were certainly the introduction for a lot of people, there were various waves of anime fans born with each show that aired on TV. Dade and most of the guys running the anime club I went to at the time were the Yamato/Robotech generation.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor i think another appeal is how bombastically the characters express themselves. Because inwardly, we feel the same but maybe we can't express it in the same way because of social norms/pressure. seeing an avatar reflect those emotions freely and have it be "normal" is kind of cathartic ^_^
Oh, one thing that comes to mind is the use of empty/in-between spaces. A lot of western stuff tends to be in your face, perhaps lacking some subtlety (not to say there's none, but there's often less - especially in entertainment). Whereas there's a lot more going on between the lines, in subtext, in the meaningful absence of something, more breathing room, a lull of sorts, and less fear of pauses or slower moments in stories. And most of it is deployed in a very meaningful and not-random way. (sorry, again, I'm a bit migraine'y today so I suck at explaining this. I hope that makes sense.) 😅
In my own work I often run into the problem of beta readers or my editor wanting me to write out the specifics of a scene when I want to skip it and let the following scene hint at what has happened (I often feel like the reader's imagination providing the details as they speculate works better than outright showing what happened). And a lot of the times it seems (maybe?) that western readers want to be shown everything and aren't quite as fond of working it out from context by piecing things together and using their imagination to fill in the gaps. I really would love to leave some things up to the reader with just enough information given that they're able to piece it together and add their own flavour to it, but it feels like maybe people don't want to make any effort and want to be served every detail. 🤔
@@Napukettu that sounds frustrating! I work in entertainment, and it's similar in many shows here, too. Spoon feeding every little thing to the viewer. Constantly chattering through the entire runtime. There are readers who appreciate the quiet. It could be that your friends aren't your target audience. Write the way you feel it serves the story. You can find other books like yours, and seek out those fans as beta readers!
You're talking about 間! Ma, or "negative space". When you read a haiku (5-7-5 syllable lines) each line is actually read with 7 beats apiece, so you highlight the space in between your statements. For me, that space gives the poetry a little time to "soak in" the meaning.
My first experience with anime was Pokémon, though I didn't know it was anime at the time, I thought it was just the coolest thing in the world. A few years later some middle school kids got me into Dragon Ball Z and then that was my next obsession for a bit. DBZ was my first time seeing a "Hero" type character that I loved die, though luckily they could be wished back. I remember my mother didn't want me to watch DBZ because she thought it was too adult and intense, but that's why I liked it, it was intense, but it also had a softer side, it had much more to offer than the other American cartoons by far. If kids were drawing cartoons they were drawing anime. Though I never considered the deeper storying telling elements of the art form until recently. It's great to hear about your experience, the whole thing reminds me about the sometimes heated conversations I would have with the other kids about our favorite DBZ characters, we had elaborate reasons for why they were our favorites, each character had a depth and history to them that made them unique and special to us and were very inspiring.
I never thought of that but your right. As a kid, I don't remember anyone drawing any kind of American cartoons but I remember seeing people draw DBZ and Pokemon
The earnestness, the complexity of storytelling also I feel like in manga you can be very detailed about things and trust the reader to actually pick up on those little nuggets of information you left in chapter 122 of 398 chapter long manga. And yeah... the whole representation of all these different types of characters who all feel very human? And don't get me started on how often in manga you might actually see tragedies instead of cookie cutter happy endings tied in a bow. I don't see that often in western style storytelling and i was often limited by it before finding mangas and only then a bell rang in my head "huh so this IS possible!!!"
One of the main differences I've noticed with Western vs. Japanese stories is that Western stories love the black and white "good vs. evil" story. Whereas it's more ambiguous in Japanese storytelling. The bad guy is definitely antagonistic towards the main character, but they'll always have a backstory that makes them sympathetic towards the viewer, they may never be defeated by the heroes and may even become a good guy in the future.
There are so many incredible antiheroes in anime! Even in stuff aimed younger, like in Pokemon. Western stuff has more complex relationships now than in the 90s. But I notice the protags tend to languish in their "bad"ness... and then die 😅 like Breaking Bad, Bojack Horseman etc. It's not very interesting to watch the protag just get worse and worse.
Honestly I think the shift towards more cozy and anime-inspired stories these days is because those of us that grew up with anime and wrote/read fanfiction are becoming published authors. The fanfiction communities grabbed hold of anime/manga storytelling and just ran with it, developing a unique writing style and and creating an entirely new genre of fiction. The queer community embraced fanfiction and anime especially because published western fiction wasn't interested in telling our stories. The old guard of published authors and the trad pub world may sneer at those of us who come from fanfiction (the way gate-kept artistic communities ALWAYS sneer and look down on arts that appeal to the common people and are easily accessible) but the fanfiction style of writing has been sneaking into books for a while now. Gay romance fiction, poly relationships, tropes, omegaverse, trigger warnings, and even little things like fic writers' tendency to say a character "raised an eyebrow" in response or referring to main characters by a physical characteristic instead of their name (the dark-haired man shook his head in disbelief). And AO3, FFdotnet, and Wattpad are even more popular with gen Z and alpha so the trend is only going to grow.
I agree with all of this. When I first got into publishing I actually kind of wished I had spent more time writing fan fic because it seemed like anyone with a fan fic background had an edge in YA...but indie publishing has really let that run wild.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor Oh yeah, indie publishing has been a godsend for a lot of minorities and fic writers. YA, Romance, and Fantasy are the bread and butter of fanfiction lol. Though one drawback of having written fanfiction for so long was getting used to traditional story structure. I know studying writing craft has made me a better writer but I had difficulty getting used to it. Fic readers don't really mind if a fic doesn't have perfect pacing.
I must say I like alot of what you said here, like I really noticed the slow burn and internal and contemplative nature of a lot of anime as well. That is part of what makes me see it as a valuable medium. That was something I really appreciated about Suzume, which I watch recently and my friend couldn't stand, was that so much of it was more contemplative and focusing on the connections made with people on the character's travels, as opposed to simply advancing the plot. I will say however that it bugs me how often anime (and manga) with a great premise will then just use the same anime tropes (many of which I dislike i.e. Harem, or Tsundere or accidental pervert stuff) and end up becoming a bog standard anime over time. This happens a lot with Isukai, which has become a genre I can't stand. There are so many ways you could explore interesting themes, but no, generic male power fantasy it is. Almost. Every. Time. But that whole idea of slower, more contemplative internal and yet interpersonal fantasy is definitely something I want to bring into my own writing.
Yeah, I do tend to avoid the genres where the pervier tropes are prevalent, although occasionally it sneaks in and it is TERRIBLY annoying when you have a thoughtful show with interesting female characters but they nevertheless have an absolutely massive rack or impractical costume... 😒 But since US entertainment is equally guilty of this, I can at least appreciate that anime delivers more shamelessly sexy men to balance it out, I guess...
I was a sporadic anime watcher, but I was instantly mesmerized by Miyazaki, and he was my gateway drug into things like Akira, even Fist of the North Star, and some of the intense horror anime (big surprise: I write horror and speculative fiction). What impressed me, later on, was the story structure in some of the manga. I'm not going to spit out a litany of my favorite horror manga, but the craftsmanship I've encountered in these manga are on the same level of TV scripts--especially the pacing, but with really great character arcs/development, reversals, etc., interwoven into the action. What I enjoyed most of this video, though, was your explaining what buttons the anime writers were pushing (successfully, over and over again) for the female audience. There almost seems to be a Beauty-in/and-the-Beast thing going on, at least in the way you describe the Handsome Villain; but I know the tropes are richer than that--more layered. It was just really fascinating to hear your insights. Cheers.
It's funny I say that because the handsome villains are not even USUALLY my absolute favorites, Yang Wen-Li from Legend of Galactic Heroes is my favorite of all time and he's not the sexy complicated villain type or terribly androgynous or really anything I mentioned here, but the fact that I do have some fairly antagonistic characters on my favorites list is impressive.
I’ve lived in Japan. It’s a very conservative culture. No same-sex marriage, for example. Cross-dressing characters in art often go hand in hand with satire, a point often lost to liberal Americans. In other cases it’s about serving male fetishes. Hardly progressive.
I actually had a bit about this in the video (and it actually seems to come up in some more modern manga, like What Did You Eat Yesterday?) but it seemed too much of a tangent so I cut it, because I'm mainly talking about the 90s. Americans weren't progressive either and there definitely was a far more diverse range in anime and manga that, while often imperfect in light of the current era, was extremely impactful at the time.
There's a rich history there though, before the reformation and trying to westernise and "clean" things up to appeal to the west. A lot of those more recent "conservative values" were adopted from the west.
@@Napukettu exactly. And while there are people who will reject you, you are statistically unlikely to get attacked or killed for being LGBTQIA in Japan (compared to US) Getting healthcare to take care of trans bodies is tough, but things are changing 👍
Im sorry but i just i cant help staring at your Reinhard and Yang figures. I just love logh so much and im so happy to run into another one, i swear there are dozen of us! 😂
Love this. It’s great to hear about the specific elements of anime and manga that resonated with you and naturally influenced your writing and creative endeavors. Nowadays, anime and manga are more widely accepted, but even when I was in middle school and high school, I was considered weird for liking these things. There’s about a 14 year gap between us, but I still relate to your love for feminine men and final fantasy. Final fantasy 4 has a special place in my heart. My first final fantasy was technical FFX, but I think that started my fascination with Final Fantasy and pretty boys. I realize I love my men brave and staring, but soft in the face and heart. And hairless except for what’s on his head. Looking at you, Legolas 😂 But you’re right. Certain anime and manga seem to get it in regard to what girls and women out of their media, at least in the way of our specific wish fulfillment tastes. I remember wishing I was a character in Inuyasha, Rayearth, and DBZ, where I could participate in the action and have my own complicate romance with a beloved character while growing relationships with the others. Ooof what a dream. I played so many dress up games to try and make my fantasy somewhat real.
"hairless except for what's on his head", LOL...Aragorn was my man in LotR, buuut when it comes to characters in illustrated form, facial hair is HARD TO DRAW!!
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor that’s so true! Facial hair is incredibly difficult to draw and to draw tastefully at that. I only ever do it to draw more of a “manly man” if you will, but even then, I just draw some lines on the chin, if even that. All hail elf men!
This was very interesting :). Closest i got to anime, and a grew up around the same time was a shit tone of Pokemon. Which i loved dearly. Its on netflix atm and i´m not ashamed to say that i saw a few episodes for nostalgia. Cheers for the video. Have a nice week!
This is such an interesting video! Japanese media (Video Games, Anime, Manga) has always peaked my interested for as long as I can remember. I always have found the stories unique and they always gave me inspiration for my own music and writing interests. My current inspirations are JRPG games like Fire Emblem and Persona. Something else I wanted to add was how in a lot of books that I've seen in the fantasy genre they always talk about how people tend to prefer strong female main characters but not too much as a Mary Sue trope, but I don't see too many passive female main characters. While I can understand why, I do like seeing passive characters in manga since I like how relatable they are and enjoy watching them grow. I would like to see these characters more in western books☺
Man, what is with today! I just someone comment elsewhere that they've never heard of avocado toast and now you've somehow missed anime and manga? Although an old book I still recommend Manga! Manga! : The World of Japanese Comics as it was one of the first books to try to explain this major form of Japanese entertainment to American readers and was quite good.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor oh no I’ve been a fan of the medium for years (maybe I should have worded my comment better haha 😅 But I do think it’s cool how Anime and Manga is becoming more popular compared to pre 2000’s. ☺️ Thank you for the book recommendation I’ll have to check it out!
I struggle to identify what the differences are but I definitely feel like there are some, and it's been tricky trying to market my books because the keywords/tropes/genre conventions never seem to apply properly. It's difficult to fine my audience because it's difficult to entice the anime/manga crowd because they naturally only want to consume Japanese stuff (or Chinese/Korean/etc respectively). Ps. I'm also an early 80s kid so a lot of this resonates with me, although I was into Ranma and Kenshin etc instead of Sailor Moon. 😂
oh yeah, I was buying the Ranma comics pretty much as soon as I saw Sailor Moon, except with floppies it was so hard to actually find the set in order... Also some of the Ranma music is wedged in my head forEVER.
My first anime was Neon Genisis Evangelion (240p on TH-cam baby) and manga was fruits basket 😂 Regarding storytelling in anime, i love the stories that have surreal elements that explore philosophical ideas. I think books by authors like thomas pynchon and zadie smith in the west fill that niche too. I am a huge fan of kdramas because so many have magical realism elements that dont fit the gritty or realistic tone of western shows. Plus they have the character introspection, similar to what you say about anime! I do love introspective moments with a character and "filler" scenes where the characters are just vibing. My worry is the kdramas will try to imitate western shows and loose their charm as more western platforms produce them
I remember that worry with anime too but I feel like it wasn't as bad as feared. Hopefully the things that make anime or kdramas appealing in the first place can't be westernized and any attempts to do so will fall flat...
I feel the desire for more androgynous men SO much. Even now, most western romance books have this copy-pasted huge beefy guy, whether it's a m/f or m/m book, and it's just not doing it for me. It's always a (far more poorly executed) copy of Guts. Griffith is still the most beautiful male character I've ever seen. And one of the worst villains. I have his figurine on my Berserk deluxe edition shelf. I want more guys like him in books, but like, a little less evil, so I can gush over their looks without guilt. Then again, can any artist capture the brilliance of Kentaro Miura? That man could DRAW. And don't get me started on my girls Farnese, Shierke, and Casca. I love them SO MUCH. Lol whenever I hear 'Berserk' I literally cannot shut up 😭 I was born more in the late 90s, and my country didn't broadcast much anime, so I missed A LOT of the old stuff. I didn't get into it until I was in my mid-teens. I had a reverse harem craze (still kind of do), and was delighted to later see it gain popularity in western books. I hope media continues to expand into more diversity as time goes on!!
Miura's art is something else. I'm afraid he drew himself to death! 😭 I was so resistant to reading Berserk because I am more of a shoujo/josei/slice of life girl, and then I read it and it was like, ohmigosh this is actually very nuanced and character-driven... Anime & manga are also so good at creating villains that you can't help but love. Not only for the character designs but also that they're very interesting characters.
One of the most recent shows that give me hope that the entertainment industry found the trail of what women may like is The Witcher. Like my bi-panic was wild watching that show. Henry Cavill's acting in that is like the staple book boyfriend. Like when authors say "he growled", THAT is what they mean! 😂
The only fantasy novel + prequel I wrote involved a beautifully tragic villain who teams up with the heroine and yearns for the hero, who also happens to be beautifully androgynous. But all my beta readers were like "This guy is so manly." I'm secretly like "if you only knew" I love slice of life and the incorporation of food. I'm having major superhero action scene fatigue. It's occurred to me that I find most modern movie action scenes kind of tedious and we could really use some slice of life or tragic pasts to break it up. Having just gotten back from Japan, I love how the guys are completely comfortable carrying their gf's umbrella and wearing Mickey ears at Disneyland. There no underlying feeling of 'I can't do that, that's girl stuff" or "I'm too adult to like this."
In my stories, the women and girls always had the tragic backstory and were complicated and did morally grey things and the guys were stable and friendly and uncomplicated havens 😅 (Edit: I remember, I actually do have short story, where the guy has a traumatic past and the woman is the healer, but it's not romantic. The woman also hasn't been a woman for very long at the start of the story. She is from a species where the largest male turns into a female, if there are too many males, somewhat like a clownfish, and she, then he has been sent to an all male space station - one of the other species requested that, and they hoped, since they ARE from another species, this wouldn't trigger her metamorphosis, but tough luck. So she has to undergo metamorphosis at the same time as her closest quarter neighbour audibly doesn't sleep. It's not a love story. It's an overcoming insomnia story.)
Unfortunately I am unsure what anime or manga actually is. I did a google search to find out. I sort of recognize some of what I saw. I am culturally illiterate! You are expanding my horizons.
Hi Lydia, for future reference. Androgenous is manly, feminine would be what you are discussing with the anime men that have features usually associated with women. Androgenous would be sailor uranus dressing in a suit and being man-like. Good discussion.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
I recently been reading light novels and notice that the storytelling style is a lot more tolerant of telling versus showing. I really like that since I struggle to show things.
Honestly... Anime, JRPGs and table top games inspired all the fiction I ever wrote as a hobby more than I realized early on. Always a delight to see this sort of thing spoken about.
I agree that a huge difference is the characters. Mangas and animes allow us to actually get close to the characters and go on a journey with them. Time is taken to make the characters come alive, to let us understand their voice, feelings, motives, and relationships. By the time we get to the end we're sad to see them go. The same can be said for a few western characters, but for the most part, western leads are just plot movers that look flashy or "cool".
My favorite thing about anime tho is use of theme. The stories feel so impactful cuz the characters, world, and imagry are all built around a theme, something we rarely see in western stories; or if we do it's not fully realized.
We do see theme in western stories, but I agree it's not usually in properties aimed at kids and teens. And many live action films are just action hero schlock. Scavenger's Reign is a great example of an animated show that takes the themes of life, survival, and determination , and packages them in beautiful animation, unique setting and immersive world.
You remind me of my early days on the internet and finding out about how edited the shows where that I was watching. I spent a lot of time on fansites and looking up fanart and fanfiction. So relatable to how I felt myself growing up. I felt like I had people that I belonged with when reading manga and through that I found people online that were like me. I felt like I had to hide that I liked anime/manga because that was considered for 'boys' or little kids where I was and I already liked gaming and science fiction which was considered 'for boys'
I recall reading that the staff of Mobile Suit Gundam were surprised by how many female fans the show had. But if you create a character as gorgeous and as emotionally complex as Char Aznable, you can't be surprised when EVERYONE loves him!
I was born in '82. Everything in this video was so familiar. Dragon Ball and Akira were my introduction to anime. Along with Robot Carnival, Project A-Ko, Green Legend Ran, Iria: Zeiram the Animation and whatever else was airing on the Sci-Fi Channel (now Syfy) at the time.
Lodoss War has some amazing songs too, I still listen to the soundtrack of that one! Some of those 90s anime themes were just SO good.
One thing I've noticed about my work is that my characters often have a very individualistic, American mindset...but they can ultimately only get anywhere through a more Japanese structure of finding a group, friendship and loyalty. I think there are some really interesting stories in the between-space of these two sets of themes and structures...
Never thought about how anime storytelling vs western styles has affected a lot of writers- and readers for that matter. Thanks for going into how it affected your stories.
Thank you so much for doing this video! Being a 90s kid, my creative inspiration was always pulled from anime. Exposure to anime truly opened up my creativity and helped shape my imagination❤❤(Sailor Moon was my entire life! Along with Pokémon!) Love how much I see myself in you!
"No, you're normal... maybe only normal in Japan..." I've never felt so seen.
I'm having flashbacks to the early 2000s and writing my self-insert fanfics about all the bad boy bishies whom I could totally woo and change with my irresistible personality and incomparable power.
Loved this video and topic!!
I first saw Sailor Moon. This was my introductory to Anime. It was such good storytelling compared to the cartoons we had. I am a 38 year old man. I introduced my younger sister to it as well.
I didn't grow up watching anime or reading manga. That changed shortly after I started finding my way around online. I had started doing a webcomic back in 2001, it was quite a bit easier to get a following back then, and word of mouth did wonders. Quite a few of my first fans/readers were folks also into anime and manga. They would talk in forums about other things they were reading, some commented to similarities in my own work to stuff they had seen in anime, and other things like that. Once I had enough people mention various anime to me, I had finally decided to dive in and find out what it was all about. I ended up really taking to the slice-of-life story style, be it normal or paranormal based, I ended up really enjoying that. My own work being a slice-of-paranormal-life. I have noticed that all too many Western films and tv seem rushed by comparison to Japanese storytelling.
I've been looking into xianxia (Chinese HIgh Fantasy) cultivation stories recently, and I'm so amazed that there's this whole tradition of fantasy storytelling that developed pretty much completely independent of Western influences. I'm pretty stoked to see what I can learn about writing from these kinds of stories
I've been wanting to check some of those out as well.
Now this is a topic I understand!!
I had way too much fun making this one!
I also spent my teenage years in the nineties with anime and manga.
But now many years later it was a chinese anime 'grandmaster of demonic cultivation' (and the webnovel and the life action version) that hooked me. It was so beyond western media's conventions and extremely dramatic and fun and fresh, that it really made me want to write again. 😊
You're so relatable, love your vibe! I instantly subbed. 🫶🏻
I love read or die...elf quest and i go way back ❤❤
Thank you for reminding me about Lady Lovely Locks! That brought back some memories, lol. I used to have the dolls.
Love this! I can't wait to see what other things you add to this "Inspiration" playlist 👀
Thank you for the video! It's so crazy to believe I used to hide my love for anime, and it's mainstream now. The biggest difference I noticed between western shows and anime as a kid was the stakes. They seemed to be so much higher. In Dragonball Z, characters DIED. That never happened in Western stories or "kids" shows, and it captivated me.
Your channel is one of my favorite channels because it’s very well presented and interesting
"Maybe you're only normal in Japan." 🤣 I felt that one in my soul. All the pretty androgynous men with tragic backstories, but still with major butt-kicking abilities, definitely altered my perceptions of a lot of things regarding gender norms. And affected the way I write. And I've been absorbing anime/manga sensibilities since I was 8. "Record of Lodoss War" was my first series, but "Sailor Moon" was right after.
My kids are both pre-teens and we watch a lot of anime. And because of that, they find a lot of "Western" media boring because so many of our movies and TV follow the "hero's journey" structure. With so much kishotenketsu style structure in anime, they prefer the twisty unpredictability.
As a horror lover: Asian horror is definitely seeping more into Western horror. In novels, especially. Body horror and "transformation" style horror, if it's done really well, tends to very heavily dip from the pot of Junji Ito. Maybe that's just because I love his work, so I see the parallels.
That's an interesting observation! What are some Western horror you feel take a leaf out of Junji Ito's books?
Sailor Moon affected me in such a deep way i can't even begin to describe it, and it makes sense now why I always want quiet introspective moments in my stories lmao
Editing to say: A lot of horror games made by Japanese developers actually entirely influenced how I see horror even if I don't write it. A lot of the hallmarks of the early Survival Horror Genre put women and the fears of being a woman at the center of the horror even if unknowingly. Games like Resident Evil and Fatal Frame and Haunting Ground to me directly imply that being a woman in a horror scenario is the scariest, because you have the least protection. its FASCINATING.
character inner journey and sprinkled with slice of life 💛
That's the biggest mark on how anime/manga storytelling influenced my writing as well. And i would get so much flack in writer groups about how "it's too slow, not plot relevant, takes too long to get to the inciting incident" 😿 but i didn't like stories that are high pace all the time, gotta be dropped in the midst of conflict on page 1. I don't know the characters enough to care with that kind of storytelling!
It was a really frustrating start into trying to become a serious writer, because i knew the kinds of slower, more reflective stories that i enjoyed were out there and were popular, just in a different medium.
The great and tragic irony is that my introduction to anime wasn't sailor moon or hamtaro, but was pokemon and card captors 🥰 and i liked it. Had this weird kind of magic, more about the journey than the eventual destination, and balanced the cozy with the action/adventure.
A lot of the anime i consumed had this idea of "you can cry when you're sad/upset and still be a bad ass who gets 💩done" which was a comfort compared to a lot of other stories where the character was this chosen one and no longer had time for being normal.
I think that's why i loved Kim Possible so much 😼 basic average girl who's here to save the world, fighting villains while also struggling with certain things in school or social circles and getting embarrassed
Anime wasn't afraid to explore the weird, and we love it ❤🔥💕
Yes, the crying and then getting to work is so relatable! I loved how much Sailor Moon cried and whined, honestly... & Pokemon and Card Captors were certainly the introduction for a lot of people, there were various waves of anime fans born with each show that aired on TV. Dade and most of the guys running the anime club I went to at the time were the Yamato/Robotech generation.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor i think another appeal is how bombastically the characters express themselves. Because inwardly, we feel the same but maybe we can't express it in the same way because of social norms/pressure.
seeing an avatar reflect those emotions freely and have it be "normal" is kind of cathartic ^_^
Oh, one thing that comes to mind is the use of empty/in-between spaces. A lot of western stuff tends to be in your face, perhaps lacking some subtlety (not to say there's none, but there's often less - especially in entertainment). Whereas there's a lot more going on between the lines, in subtext, in the meaningful absence of something, more breathing room, a lull of sorts, and less fear of pauses or slower moments in stories. And most of it is deployed in a very meaningful and not-random way. (sorry, again, I'm a bit migraine'y today so I suck at explaining this. I hope that makes sense.) 😅
In my own work I often run into the problem of beta readers or my editor wanting me to write out the specifics of a scene when I want to skip it and let the following scene hint at what has happened (I often feel like the reader's imagination providing the details as they speculate works better than outright showing what happened).
And a lot of the times it seems (maybe?) that western readers want to be shown everything and aren't quite as fond of working it out from context by piecing things together and using their imagination to fill in the gaps.
I really would love to leave some things up to the reader with just enough information given that they're able to piece it together and add their own flavour to it, but it feels like maybe people don't want to make any effort and want to be served every detail. 🤔
@@Napukettu that sounds frustrating! I work in entertainment, and it's similar in many shows here, too. Spoon feeding every little thing to the viewer. Constantly chattering through the entire runtime.
There are readers who appreciate the quiet. It could be that your friends aren't your target audience. Write the way you feel it serves the story. You can find other books like yours, and seek out those fans as beta readers!
You're talking about 間! Ma, or "negative space". When you read a haiku (5-7-5 syllable lines) each line is actually read with 7 beats apiece, so you highlight the space in between your statements. For me, that space gives the poetry a little time to "soak in" the meaning.
My first experience with anime was Pokémon, though I didn't know it was anime at the time, I thought it was just the coolest thing in the world. A few years later some middle school kids got me into Dragon Ball Z and then that was my next obsession for a bit. DBZ was my first time seeing a "Hero" type character that I loved die, though luckily they could be wished back. I remember my mother didn't want me to watch DBZ because she thought it was too adult and intense, but that's why I liked it, it was intense, but it also had a softer side, it had much more to offer than the other American cartoons by far. If kids were drawing cartoons they were drawing anime. Though I never considered the deeper storying telling elements of the art form until recently. It's great to hear about your experience, the whole thing reminds me about the sometimes heated conversations I would have with the other kids about our favorite DBZ characters, we had elaborate reasons for why they were our favorites, each character had a depth and history to them that made them unique and special to us and were very inspiring.
I never thought of that but your right. As a kid, I don't remember anyone drawing any kind of American cartoons but I remember seeing people draw DBZ and Pokemon
The earnestness, the complexity of storytelling also I feel like in manga you can be very detailed about things and trust the reader to actually pick up on those little nuggets of information you left in chapter 122 of 398 chapter long manga. And yeah... the whole representation of all these different types of characters who all feel very human? And don't get me started on how often in manga you might actually see tragedies instead of cookie cutter happy endings tied in a bow.
I don't see that often in western style storytelling and i was often limited by it before finding mangas and only then a bell rang in my head "huh so this IS possible!!!"
One of the main differences I've noticed with Western vs. Japanese stories is that Western stories love the black and white "good vs. evil" story. Whereas it's more ambiguous in Japanese storytelling. The bad guy is definitely antagonistic towards the main character, but they'll always have a backstory that makes them sympathetic towards the viewer, they may never be defeated by the heroes and may even become a good guy in the future.
There are so many incredible antiheroes in anime! Even in stuff aimed younger, like in Pokemon.
Western stuff has more complex relationships now than in the 90s. But I notice the protags tend to languish in their "bad"ness... and then die 😅 like Breaking Bad, Bojack Horseman etc. It's not very interesting to watch the protag just get worse and worse.
Honestly I think the shift towards more cozy and anime-inspired stories these days is because those of us that grew up with anime and wrote/read fanfiction are becoming published authors. The fanfiction communities grabbed hold of anime/manga storytelling and just ran with it, developing a unique writing style and and creating an entirely new genre of fiction. The queer community embraced fanfiction and anime especially because published western fiction wasn't interested in telling our stories.
The old guard of published authors and the trad pub world may sneer at those of us who come from fanfiction (the way gate-kept artistic communities ALWAYS sneer and look down on arts that appeal to the common people and are easily accessible) but the fanfiction style of writing has been sneaking into books for a while now. Gay romance fiction, poly relationships, tropes, omegaverse, trigger warnings, and even little things like fic writers' tendency to say a character "raised an eyebrow" in response or referring to main characters by a physical characteristic instead of their name (the dark-haired man shook his head in disbelief). And AO3, FFdotnet, and Wattpad are even more popular with gen Z and alpha so the trend is only going to grow.
I agree with all of this. When I first got into publishing I actually kind of wished I had spent more time writing fan fic because it seemed like anyone with a fan fic background had an edge in YA...but indie publishing has really let that run wild.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor Oh yeah, indie publishing has been a godsend for a lot of minorities and fic writers. YA, Romance, and Fantasy are the bread and butter of fanfiction lol. Though one drawback of having written fanfiction for so long was getting used to traditional story structure. I know studying writing craft has made me a better writer but I had difficulty getting used to it. Fic readers don't really mind if a fic doesn't have perfect pacing.
Yep, you are my people. 😮
I must say I like alot of what you said here, like I really noticed the slow burn and internal and contemplative nature of a lot of anime as well. That is part of what makes me see it as a valuable medium. That was something I really appreciated about Suzume, which I watch recently and my friend couldn't stand, was that so much of it was more contemplative and focusing on the connections made with people on the character's travels, as opposed to simply advancing the plot. I will say however that it bugs me how often anime (and manga) with a great premise will then just use the same anime tropes (many of which I dislike i.e. Harem, or Tsundere or accidental pervert stuff) and end up becoming a bog standard anime over time. This happens a lot with Isukai, which has become a genre I can't stand. There are so many ways you could explore interesting themes, but no, generic male power fantasy it is. Almost. Every. Time. But that whole idea of slower, more contemplative internal and yet interpersonal fantasy is definitely something I want to bring into my own writing.
Yeah, I do tend to avoid the genres where the pervier tropes are prevalent, although occasionally it sneaks in and it is TERRIBLY annoying when you have a thoughtful show with interesting female characters but they nevertheless have an absolutely massive rack or impractical costume... 😒 But since US entertainment is equally guilty of this, I can at least appreciate that anime delivers more shamelessly sexy men to balance it out, I guess...
I was a sporadic anime watcher, but I was instantly mesmerized by Miyazaki, and he was my gateway drug into things like Akira, even Fist of the North Star, and some of the intense horror anime (big surprise: I write horror and speculative fiction). What impressed me, later on, was the story structure in some of the manga. I'm not going to spit out a litany of my favorite horror manga, but the craftsmanship I've encountered in these manga are on the same level of TV scripts--especially the pacing, but with really great character arcs/development, reversals, etc., interwoven into the action. What I enjoyed most of this video, though, was your explaining what buttons the anime writers were pushing (successfully, over and over again) for the female audience. There almost seems to be a Beauty-in/and-the-Beast thing going on, at least in the way you describe the Handsome Villain; but I know the tropes are richer than that--more layered. It was just really fascinating to hear your insights. Cheers.
It's funny I say that because the handsome villains are not even USUALLY my absolute favorites, Yang Wen-Li from Legend of Galactic Heroes is my favorite of all time and he's not the sexy complicated villain type or terribly androgynous or really anything I mentioned here, but the fact that I do have some fairly antagonistic characters on my favorites list is impressive.
I’ve lived in Japan. It’s a very conservative culture. No same-sex marriage, for example. Cross-dressing characters in art often go hand in hand with satire, a point often lost to liberal Americans. In other cases it’s about serving male fetishes. Hardly progressive.
I actually had a bit about this in the video (and it actually seems to come up in some more modern manga, like What Did You Eat Yesterday?) but it seemed too much of a tangent so I cut it, because I'm mainly talking about the 90s. Americans weren't progressive either and there definitely was a far more diverse range in anime and manga that, while often imperfect in light of the current era, was extremely impactful at the time.
There's a rich history there though, before the reformation and trying to westernise and "clean" things up to appeal to the west. A lot of those more recent "conservative values" were adopted from the west.
@@Napukettu exactly. And while there are people who will reject you, you are statistically unlikely to get attacked or killed for being LGBTQIA in Japan (compared to US) Getting healthcare to take care of trans bodies is tough, but things are changing 👍
Im sorry but i just i cant help staring at your Reinhard and Yang figures. I just love logh so much and im so happy to run into another one, i swear there are dozen of us! 😂
Yes! There are indeed! It's such a hard anime to get people to watch too. "It's 110 episodes of politics...wait, don't go!"
Love this. It’s great to hear about the specific elements of anime and manga that resonated with you and naturally influenced your writing and creative endeavors. Nowadays, anime and manga are more widely accepted, but even when I was in middle school and high school, I was considered weird for liking these things. There’s about a 14 year gap between us, but I still relate to your love for feminine men and final fantasy.
Final fantasy 4 has a special place in my heart. My first final fantasy was technical FFX, but I think that started my fascination with Final Fantasy and pretty boys. I realize I love my men brave and staring, but soft in the face and heart. And hairless except for what’s on his head. Looking at you, Legolas 😂
But you’re right. Certain anime and manga seem to get it in regard to what girls and women out of their media, at least in the way of our specific wish fulfillment tastes. I remember wishing I was a character in Inuyasha, Rayearth, and DBZ, where I could participate in the action and have my own complicate romance with a beloved character while growing relationships with the others. Ooof what a dream. I played so many dress up games to try and make my fantasy somewhat real.
"hairless except for what's on his head", LOL...Aragorn was my man in LotR, buuut when it comes to characters in illustrated form, facial hair is HARD TO DRAW!!
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor that’s so true! Facial hair is incredibly difficult to draw and to draw tastefully at that. I only ever do it to draw more of a “manly man” if you will, but even then, I just draw some lines on the chin, if even that.
All hail elf men!
Now I want a song cover of "Big in Japan" but changed it to "Normal in Japan"
This was very interesting :). Closest i got to anime, and a grew up around the same time was a shit tone of Pokemon. Which i loved dearly. Its on netflix atm and i´m not ashamed to say that i saw a few episodes for nostalgia. Cheers for the video. Have a nice week!
This is such an interesting video! Japanese media (Video Games, Anime, Manga) has always peaked my interested for as long as I can remember. I always have found the stories unique and they always gave me inspiration for my own music and writing interests. My current inspirations are JRPG games like Fire Emblem and Persona.
Something else I wanted to add was how in a lot of books that I've seen in the fantasy genre they always talk about how people tend to prefer strong female main characters but not too much as a Mary Sue trope, but I don't see too many passive female main characters. While I can understand why, I do like seeing passive characters in manga since I like how relatable they are and enjoy watching them grow. I would like to see these characters more in western books☺
Man, what is with today! I just someone comment elsewhere that they've never heard of avocado toast and now you've somehow missed anime and manga? Although an old book I still recommend Manga! Manga! : The World of Japanese Comics as it was one of the first books to try to explain this major form of Japanese entertainment to American readers and was quite good.
@@lidiyafoxgloveauthor oh no I’ve been a fan of the medium for years (maybe I should have worded my comment better haha 😅
But I do think it’s cool how Anime and Manga is becoming more popular compared to pre 2000’s. ☺️ Thank you for the book recommendation I’ll have to check it out!
@@lucinaa.5407 Oh no TH-cam is screwing with comments again... that was supposed to go under someone else's
I struggle to identify what the differences are but I definitely feel like there are some, and it's been tricky trying to market my books because the keywords/tropes/genre conventions never seem to apply properly. It's difficult to fine my audience because it's difficult to entice the anime/manga crowd because they naturally only want to consume Japanese stuff (or Chinese/Korean/etc respectively).
Ps. I'm also an early 80s kid so a lot of this resonates with me, although I was into Ranma and Kenshin etc instead of Sailor Moon. 😂
Ps. I'm kinda repeating myself a lot today because I'm feeling a bit migraine'y. 😂
oh yeah, I was buying the Ranma comics pretty much as soon as I saw Sailor Moon, except with floppies it was so hard to actually find the set in order... Also some of the Ranma music is wedged in my head forEVER.
My first anime was Neon Genisis Evangelion (240p on TH-cam baby) and manga was fruits basket 😂
Regarding storytelling in anime, i love the stories that have surreal elements that explore philosophical ideas. I think books by authors like thomas pynchon and zadie smith in the west fill that niche too. I am a huge fan of kdramas because so many have magical realism elements that dont fit the gritty or realistic tone of western shows. Plus they have the character introspection, similar to what you say about anime! I do love introspective moments with a character and "filler" scenes where the characters are just vibing. My worry is the kdramas will try to imitate western shows and loose their charm as more western platforms produce them
I remember that worry with anime too but I feel like it wasn't as bad as feared. Hopefully the things that make anime or kdramas appealing in the first place can't be westernized and any attempts to do so will fall flat...
I feel the desire for more androgynous men SO much. Even now, most western romance books have this copy-pasted huge beefy guy, whether it's a m/f or m/m book, and it's just not doing it for me. It's always a (far more poorly executed) copy of Guts. Griffith is still the most beautiful male character I've ever seen. And one of the worst villains. I have his figurine on my Berserk deluxe edition shelf. I want more guys like him in books, but like, a little less evil, so I can gush over their looks without guilt. Then again, can any artist capture the brilliance of Kentaro Miura? That man could DRAW.
And don't get me started on my girls Farnese, Shierke, and Casca. I love them SO MUCH. Lol whenever I hear 'Berserk' I literally cannot shut up 😭
I was born more in the late 90s, and my country didn't broadcast much anime, so I missed A LOT of the old stuff. I didn't get into it until I was in my mid-teens. I had a reverse harem craze (still kind of do), and was delighted to later see it gain popularity in western books. I hope media continues to expand into more diversity as time goes on!!
Miura's art is something else. I'm afraid he drew himself to death! 😭 I was so resistant to reading Berserk because I am more of a shoujo/josei/slice of life girl, and then I read it and it was like, ohmigosh this is actually very nuanced and character-driven... Anime & manga are also so good at creating villains that you can't help but love. Not only for the character designs but also that they're very interesting characters.
You know I fully believed those lesbians were cousins for years
The US dub tried so hard but LOL, those cousins sure had some chemistry
One of the most recent shows that give me hope that the entertainment industry found the trail of what women may like is The Witcher. Like my bi-panic was wild watching that show. Henry Cavill's acting in that is like the staple book boyfriend. Like when authors say "he growled", THAT is what they mean! 😂
The only fantasy novel + prequel I wrote involved a beautifully tragic villain who teams up with the heroine and yearns for the hero, who also happens to be beautifully androgynous. But all my beta readers were like "This guy is so manly." I'm secretly like "if you only knew"
I love slice of life and the incorporation of food. I'm having major superhero action scene fatigue. It's occurred to me that I find most modern movie action scenes kind of tedious and we could really use some slice of life or tragic pasts to break it up.
Having just gotten back from Japan, I love how the guys are completely comfortable carrying their gf's umbrella and wearing Mickey ears at Disneyland. There no underlying feeling of 'I can't do that, that's girl stuff" or "I'm too adult to like this."
I was hot for Prince Lotor in Voltron in 1984.
In my stories, the women and girls always had the tragic backstory and were complicated and did morally grey things and the guys were stable and friendly and uncomplicated havens 😅 (Edit: I remember, I actually do have short story, where the guy has a traumatic past and the woman is the healer, but it's not romantic. The woman also hasn't been a woman for very long at the start of the story. She is from a species where the largest male turns into a female, if there are too many males, somewhat like a clownfish, and she, then he has been sent to an all male space station - one of the other species requested that, and they hoped, since they ARE from another species, this wouldn't trigger her metamorphosis, but tough luck. So she has to undergo metamorphosis at the same time as her closest quarter neighbour audibly doesn't sleep. It's not a love story. It's an overcoming insomnia story.)
Unfortunately I am unsure what anime or manga actually is. I did a google search to find out. I sort of recognize some of what I saw. I am culturally illiterate! You are expanding my horizons.
Which is this greatest anime of all time, and why is it Akira?
Correction: BrideofSkeletor69
Heh. 69.
Noice
Hi Lydia, for future reference. Androgenous is manly, feminine would be what you are discussing with the anime men that have features usually associated with women. Androgenous would be sailor uranus dressing in a suit and being man-like. Good discussion.
One of my comfort animes is VERY gender-y; Ouran High School Host Club.