Victron energy multiplus-2, DO NOT MAKE THIS MISTAKE.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- In a previous video before we went to Daytona Beach bike week I had installed a Victron energy Multiplus 2 3000 watt inverter. while in Daytona we had an issue with the terminal blocks connections overheating and melting the blocks away. I contacted Northern Arizona wind and sun and they authorized a warranty through Victron energy. So now I have a brand new unit and I'm going to make the necessary corrections to hopefully prevent this failure in the future. Although this is not a common problem with the Multiplus unit, I'm hoping that I can share my experience and prevent others who may install this unit to avoid making the mistake that I made. Below is a link to the original installation video.
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#Amsoil Adam #amsoil adam youtube #amsoil adam website #travel vendors vlogs #Victron energy multiplus #Victron energy multiplus-ii #Victron energy multiplus 3000va #Victron energy multiplus 3000va 12-volt #Victron energy multiplus 3000va 24-volt pure sine wave inverter 70 amp battery charger #Victron energy multiplus 2000va #Daytona beach bike week 2022 #Daytona beach biketoberfest 2022
FYI: Ferrules are for fine stranded cable, the cable you are using for AC OUT does not require a ferrule and will likely be detrimental to connectivity.
Agreed. The first cable looked like it required a ferrule. The second cable was "solid" strand, and should of been pushed in without a ferrule.
Im an electrical mate, and work on industrial electrics.
True
This guy, good call! 6AWG solid core is perfect in these terminals, that's what I use and it's what the manual specifies (6AWG).
Swist wire tight ,dah! Standard practice
One thing to watch for on those push in type connectors: If the exposed wire is too short, you could shove some of the wire covering into the connector. This would partially pry the connector apart and reduce the amount of current it can handle. I personally dislike this type of connectors. They use these reduced force connectors in cars to make it easier to install wiring but I've had several in a dodge and chevy melt when the blower was cranked up and stayed there. Just too much current. I've also had a fire melt an electric clothes dryer power cable because the wiring in the fuse box was a poor connection. It was old so fibration could have loosened the connection, the copper wires oxidized or the screws were never torqued to begin with. Just venting, hope this is helpful.
That is what I think happened.
Glad you seem to have gotten it fixed, however, you've opened yourself up to the *potential* of creating a new problem. The crimp sleeves you used are not designed or intended for that purpose. What you used is designed for, intended for, and UL listed for combining several bare ground wires. They are not intended to be used as a ferrule. The crimping tool that it seems like you used for the crimp sleeves provides a substandard crimp that is almost certainly not uniform around the circumference of the conductor, and therefore may result in a high resistance connection. The result of that you've already experienced once before...HEAT. I would strongly suggest you purchase the proper ferrules and the proper crimping tool for those ferrules and redo what you have. It will make a MUCH more durable connection, far superior to what you have. Otherwise, you may have a technician tell you that once again, it's your fault, because you used the wrong components and the wrong tool. Search for "#6 AWG Ferrule" (or the appropriate size for your conductors). You find the right parts, as well as the proper tool.
Thank you for the info Ben.
@@amsoiladam
Yes the only farrells I used were on the PV charge controllers.
Although I still find it hard to believe that a little bit of rubber caused that meltdown! 🤔
But again I’m no expert and only built one off grid system.
Agree that you need to use the correct item to crimp on. They are called bootlace crimps and get the correct tool. May I also suggest you replace the AC out piece of cable with the same type as your AC in cable as the higher strand count will be better.
Yep - they are not the correct cable ferules
Also the product manual isn't an electricians school book, so that's why it does not mention obvious things every electrician knows about... 😆 Still a very good and useful vid thanks Adam.
i am on my second victron first was victron multy plus 12 2000 80 on more than one occasion i have triped 30 amp shore power using pass through never a problem with the lugs screws at all two years of service. Live aboard vessel i am so glade i seen this before i got any futher on installing a multy plus II 24 3000 70 Its still in the box
I will say, that once I made these corrective measures, the system has worked 100% perfect since
Thanks for explaining this issue you had, just about to hook one of these up in my campervan.
Glad I could help
New subscriber here. I have always thought Victron was made better than the rest. I am glad the distributor and manufacture supported you. I am with you on the ferrule usage. I plan on using those on solar charge controllers as well. All the best! Thanks for your video.
Yes I was really impressed that they decided to warranty it. And since then the system has been added onto and everything has been working very well. Victron is top quality for sure. I know it’s more expensive than some of the others but you definitely get what you pay for.
The first generation yes. The mulptiplus 2. Its a joke
Mate, with the amount of power you’re consuming, consider moving from using 12v to 48v or at least 24v. Using higher voltage means lower currents and hence less heat on connectors. Also you won’t have to use such heavy gauge wires. It may be expensive to do but in the long run, it will pay dividends
Originally I had planned a 24 V inverter. Because Goliath was already wired with a 24 V battery bank. And the solar array was wired series parallel to 24 V as well. But unfortunately victron did not make a copper bowl converter with a 24 V input. Hindsight be in 2020 I probably should’ve went to the 48 V. But none of that would’ve changed the problem that I had. And since doing these repairs the entire system has been working flawlessly.
Very good video! thanks for sharing. I'm about to install one for a friend and since I have the original I had no idea they changed lug input on the AC side.
If the grapping connector part of the Victron inverters are flat and the ferrule is round, it only makes contact on 2 places. When it still was the multistrand cable, it would be squeezed over the whole length on top and bottom. This would be a better connection in my opinion.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU. Have two Quattros on order and I would have been in the same dang boat. (a $7,000 boat wo the pull of a channel ... ouch!)
Thank you for watching, I’m glad to provide some benefit
Nate with “Explorist Lofe” shows the proper Ferrales and crimping tools for hooking up wire to the Victron Plus. Just o thought I would see a better job with someone who states they have OCD. Those also look like Ferrell for plastic tubing. The ones that go with wire have a plastic housing that covers the insulation of the wire when you crimp it. Definitely not the right ones
I understand that it is not the actual proper ones, but it is all I can get my hands on at the time and in concept they do the same exact thing so although it may not be textbook correct it offers the same continuity. And just so you know, it’s been well over two years since I made that video in the system has worked absolutely flawlessly ever since.
I have installed similar multiple here in South Africa they had screw terminals there, I don't those push in are a great idea
Those connectors are great, I do not use ferrules, max contact is with the multi strand wire, do not use low strand count “hard wire”. Use a small electricians screwdriver to open the contacts and Bobs yer uncle. (I see your point re ring terminals)
It's possible to replace those connectors, probably made in Germany 🇩🇪 or Netherlands 🇳🇱, you will probably need a proper desolder station & you will need to get all the carbon deposits off the PCB's or you can have tracking problems, I've repaired worse than that in my past,
If your doing the repair yourself please be aware you don't damage the PCB,
I agree the connections on those units would be best with nut & bolt connectors 👍 I was working in the Aerospace Defence industry were very aware of things that can be improved as a Electronics Manufacturing Hardware Test Engineer... your 100% right ✅ improvements can be made on those units.
I would love to repair it because I have another project that it would work well on. However I don’t do much with electronics repair and circuit boards. I would likely need someone to repair it for me that’s experienced in that
@@amsoiladam those connections would probably have to use what is known as a solder pot to remove all together without PCB damage Because of the large connectors heat would spread into the connectors hence why you need special equipment
@@CoolMusicToMyEars thank you for the info, hopefully I can find somebody local to me that can do it someday
I am surprised that Victron uses that type of connection for a large amount of current. I would think they would have a screw down vice like connection that some torque could be made. I only hope you have no further connection problems. I would not blame you. As far as going to a 48 or 24 volt system, you need to analyze what all of your needs are. How many watt hours are used for your 12 loads vs. how many watt hours are used by your 120 volt AC units. If you are using a good portion of power in the 12 volt range and only short amounts of 120 volt AC, like coffee pots and microwaves, I would stick with the 12 volt system. You can turn off the inverter when you do not need AC. You also do not have a 24 or 48 volt to 12 volt converter running all the time just to supply your 12 volt lighting which loses power.
On my next system I am considering going up to a 48 v. This was my first build and, and if I remember correctly at the time the was not an availablity for the
multi plus II in 24 volt.
I don't know how a connection that has so much power and so important is the same "hope it's connected right" connection that you find in a music speaker.
This needs a completely visible connection that is tied down with some type of manual screw connection.
I guess there’s a lot of people with mixed feelings about this type of connection. Some people actually say it so much better connection
Thanks for the heads up!
Well darn it there goes the profit from the last rally. But at least you got it figured out, let's hope anyway
No not that bad, Victron and northern Arizona wind and sun Warren teed the item. So I got the replacement at no charge
I don't find any specification on the terminals in the manual: It's their fault to not copy past the info from the terminal manufacture.
Each an every electrical terminal have a specification for length of required wire stripping. Some units of multiplus comes with a screw terminal. The friction terminals are there that you don't need any crimp sleeves in most time. For these cables you'll probably need the harder crimps with the bigger crimp tool. The crimps make it not any batter as they introduce more resistance. I don't know why you don't use a singe string wire from your fuse to this unit. The only problem is the double isolation rule, witch may be solved by a lockable door in front of the cabinet.
Awesome 🤓🇺🇸
Thank you Robert
Hope that works for ya now. Sturgis will be a massive test for ya.
Yes we are definitely looking forward to Sturgis
Thank you for this video and sorry you had so much trouble. The manufacturer may say that you caused the problem, but looking at those connectors, I'd say they had a hand in it. I firmly believe that had they used lugs instead of those friction connectors, you would never have burned out your first inverter. Victron may make a good product, but to me, those friction connectors are a design flaw that can easily can be corrected.
I am a neophyte regarding solar, which means I am trying to learn everything I can before buying and attempting to install a system on my new camper. I am also a woman, and a petite one at that. Looking at those connectors and that gauge wire, I'm wondering if I'll be able to man-handle those cables into those connectors and do it properly in order to prevent burning up the inverter... and maybe worse. I'm now seriously worried about that. It may be better (and safer) for me to look at other manufacturer's inverters.
Once again, thank for making this video. None of the other's I've watched have thought to warn about this potential problem.
agree 100% it is a design flaw, 99% of the time the fastest way to do a job is the worst way. it would be interesting to know how many lives lost ,homes burnt down due to cheap nasty electrical products from china, lots of power points plated steel instead of brass
What the Vic Tronquality is generally very good and since I’ve made these corrections the inverter has been working perfect for the last few months. It is challenging though getting those wires into positions and fully inserted into the connectors. They don’t give you a lot of room to work and that gauge wire can be very stiff to maneuver. I did use a small pair of needle nose pliers at the very end just to grip some good and make sure that they were fully seated.
@@amsoiladam Thank you for the reply and I'm glad you're no longer having problems with the inverter. I agree that Victron makes good products, but even a good product can be transformed into a great product with some simple improvements. IE: loose the friction connectors and replace them with lugs. 😉 Best regards, Janet
Victron couldn't use traditional lug terminals - in case you hadn't noticed there's not enough room on the panel. At high voltage you also need properly insulated terminals. Victron makes excellent gear and it's even mentioned in the video this is only the second one in the USA to have this issue. And it seems clear some of the insulation got caught in the clamp and stopped the wire from being clamped correctly leading to arcing and eventually fire. I think it's great that he posted this video because it might avoid this happening to someone else in the future with far worse consequences.
Why isn’t this in their documentation?
I most likely just missed it. It was my mistake.
I thought this video was pretty cool. It was definately interesting to get a back story on some of the goings on that we dont typically see. Theres a little more to Adams day than just swapping out oil.
That’s for sure
If the length wasn't listed in the manual, how else would you have known that would happen?
I should’ve known better. Just something I overlooked
Great information. Question for you, I haven’t installed our multiplus yet, did you use different gauge wire for AC IN and AC OUT? If so, what size and was there a reason?
The minimum recommendation for 50 amp split phase is six gauge. And that is what I used in and out. However my in line I needed to be flexible so I basically cut a section of the 50 amp RV style extension cord. So it is a higher count multi strand wire. The output to the breaker box is basically standard six gauge range wire for a house
Thanks !! That actually was my plan. I need 22’ each way, a 50’, 50 amp RV cord is cheaper than a 50’ 6/4 SOOW Cable. It’s pretty much the same except the ground is 8 awg.
Have a look at the manual AWG6 is the recommendation for 50A and 75A (AC OUT 2 can output 75A). You should also have a breaker on the feed in (Between the plug and the Unit)
@@grahamnicholson1553 yes 6 gauge, that’s exactly what I wrote. And the “in” is the shore/grid connection which always has a breaker.
Those spring clamps are crap. I would much rather have a screw terminal.
Me too
Why 6 gauge for 3000 watts?
Because it is a full 50 split phase pass through
They gave you a new one because it was a fault with the unit
No lugs, no thanks. Not enough surface area for magic pixies to run through.
Lol!
the first cable is the correct type for that connector (no Ferrel), and the second one is NOT. The way you made the cable length to go into the connector is also incorrect, the centre core should be shorter than the 2 outer ones so they are all the same length at the connector after bending and never pull on the cable in that type of connector, you may damage the spring mechanism inside.
No. The earth-conductor (which is the center one) should always be longer and have a bit of slack between terminal and cable-holddown. In the event the conductors do slip out earth shall be the last one to disconnect (for obvious reasons).
Thank you for the input
Didn't you use a proper crimping tools? Because those ferruels? Don't look square at all
No I do not have the proper Farrell‘s or crimps so I made due with what I could get
Sorry to see the struggle. I will say that the ferrules you used are probably going to cause the same issue. The ferrules to use actual crimp the wires in perfect squares to fit nicely in the inverters terminals.
Just my two🤙🏼
Quick-release terminals are a bad tone for such expensive equipment. I hope they are smart enough to abandon them and put the bolts.
Others have already suggested that you use the proper ferrule or risk a repeat problem, so I'll elaborate on wire selection. Even people in the electrical field often don't know the potential problems with solid vs, stranded, vs fine stranded wire. Some connectors are designed for only solid wire. Some are designed for solid or stranded but NOT finely stranded wire. Some can be used for finely stranded or stranded but NOT solid. If the terminal is not rated for solid you do not want to use a ferrule because you are essentially making a stranded wire into a solid one. Most connectors will accept solid and stranded but not finely stranded and that's where most of the issues arise. Stranded would be wire with 7 or 19 strands, 30+ would be finely stranded. Finely stranded is common like in SO cable or welding cable. The BIGGEST issue is simply finding out what type of wire a particular terminal is designed for. Sometimes that info is even hard to find in the terminal manufacturers data sheets. In your original failure, looking at the damaged cable it looks like the connector pinched the insulation and not the conductor and the only reason it worked at all is because it was barely making contact. Without knowing anything specific on the connector ratings, I would recommend to replace the fine strand wires with 19 strand and not use any ferrules because you don't have the correct ferrules or crimper. Wire strip length IS a common problem with electrical terminals whether too short or too long. Using a screwdriver or pick in your case to hold the spring open while inserting the wire is good practice. These types of spring cage terminals are becoming more popular because you are assured of having the correct wire clamping force (and fewer meltdowns), whereas a screw type terminal relies on the user using a torque screwdriver to the proper torque. The problem with these spring cage terminals is that you can strip the wire too short, insert it, and not be able to see that it is pinching the insulation and making a poor connection. Sometimes you'll get lucky and it won't make any connection at all and you'll then find and correct the problem. Other times you end up in the situation you found yourself in...
in other words they are ''crap'' ,some screwdows could do with improvemen, i always fold the wire over itself so the screw doesn't damage'' business part of wire....
You can use AC wiring on these AC terminals, which is a solid wire instead of stranded. The solid wire doesn't need a ferrule. Make sure to use 6AWG like the manual specifies, they will fail after install if you use lesser, stranded wires (with no ferrule).
Very good explanation. One of the problems with running solid wire around a screw type connection, people wrap the wire around the screw so the wire crosses over itself. Then when the screw is tightened the wire cuts through itself.
This unit is rated for 3000 watts or 25 amps, with momentary peak at 8000 watts or 66 amps. I'm surprised that the spring AC connector is UL and/or ABYC rated for this load. Even if the connector is rated I would be surprised to see the PC board that could handle 25 amps for very long.
I installed a unit a couple months ago in a boat and used stranded 10 gauge to a load panel. After watching Amsoil's video and reading a few comments here, I'm going to run a high load test and measure the heat on these terminals. Last thing I want is a fire out on the water.
@@Bonaventure2AK That's not how it works, based on your comments, you seem confused about how much power passes through those terminals when plugged into a huge shore connection, way more than the inverter can produce. If you used 10GA, you did it wrong, and need to start over. When you start over, read the instructions first. After that, follow them. Manual specifies 6GA for this wire, and you put a 75A breaker on it (9 KW PLUS add'l surge). Rough stranded (6GA romex) works great.
The inverter/charger integrates a 50A transfer switch and it works very very well--if you're having trouble, I am sorry.
The fires are caused by people who didn't strip enough insulation, if you're unsure, please make sure you did.
But you need to replace that 10GA with 6GA romex also. I did the exact same thing when I got my first multiplus II. It didn't start on fire, but the spring contacts stopped transmitting power until I pulled them out and replaced them with stiffer 6GA wires instead. The exact same thing happened on my AC-in as well as my AC-out 1 until I used the correct wire, 10GA doesn't work reliably.
This inverter isn't UL listed, why would you make the assumption?
I really dislike these types of connectors. The screw down seem much less prone to error
I definitely agree
Good Idea for this video. I know you will be using this if this happens again 😊.
Advice from experience get the correct diameter ferrules and length doubling them up not the best and pre bend the wire before ferrule crimping other wise you risk the wire stands pulling loose
Crap terminals, cheap, poor desing from Victron (and this goes through the product lines). There are several better connector types and secured/torque adjusted without ferrule need. As 10000+ ferrule installed, but only for minor current purposes/datawires. Cable lugs are the whole another story.
Agreed, since the repair the system has worked flawlessly
Screw terminals have shown to fail in the automotive and rail industry through vibration. Spring loaded contacts are the norm and stop the cable from working loose and are used widely in these industries. This is a good modification to the original screws.
Ruryryrytÿryrry
You can sell that hugu toroidal transformer from the old unit for a few 100$
I’m hoping that someday I’ll find someone who can fix the spot where I got hot and actually have another inverter to use
12v is shit ... go for 48v saves a lot of heat problems and is more reliable
This is my first system so I decided to start with 12 V because I was more familiar with it. I am currently working on a 48 V system.
Two small things, if you have wires without a solid core (which is common in Europe for cabling) always use ferrals if you don't have special connectors like eg. Wago clamps. As for crimping I preferr the hexagonal crimpers, create cooler connections here.
And the most important one, if you have connections that are loaded to or near max, use an IR cam to make a quick check... They are cheap compared to the equipment that burned up and you can also check if cabling is ok (it's perfectly fine if it's just a usb ir cam that you attach to your phone)
Btw... If you'd use the victron quattro you can have your backup generator automatically used.
Thank you for the input, the multi +2 also is able to start and stop a generator when necessary and I’ve also recently installed the cerbo GX which also has that function as well
Oh wow I was going to get a Victron. but after seeing they use spring terminals for these heavy wires. I will switch to the Schneider | Conext XW PRO 6.8KW. I really do not like spring terminal connections. Also thinking unless your using a ferule that is long enough for the entire wire length it may have an even harder time making a good connection probably better off with the bare wire making contact without any uneven surface. Or you can try to find longer ones online. definitely appreciate the heads up on this issue.
Hey Jim, every I appreciate the response. But what’s more important that I want you to consider is that I screwed up here and Victron warranted it out. That’s how great of a company they are. And although I cannot 100% confirm, they have made corrections and put in screw style terminals since then. I also have to tell you that since I have made the repairs in this video it has been almost 2 years now and the system has worked absolutely flawlessly zero problems whatsoever. Victron is really high-quality. Do not let this sway you. By the way, I am not sponsored by them or have any relationship whatsoever other than I bought a unit skirted up and they fixed it. So for that, I will definitely give them their props.
$4600 ridiculous
Awesome video my friend!
That's what good friends do..put it out there that a mistake was made and don't do what I did..
Great for the company to step up and help out.
TH-camrs..the good ones like yourself are their voice on these matters..alot of people watch you and helps them (the company) out in the long run..free PR!!
Great job as usual my friend!
Keep on keepin' on!!
Thank you George, hopefully I will save somebody some hassle
I enjoyed this video. It was very helpful. Do you still have the damaged unit? I know it’s been awhile, just thought I would ask
Yes I do!
would you be interested in shipping the damaged unit to me?@@amsoiladam
The AC in and AC out terminals are a weak point on the Victron, too small and in a confined space, a recipe for disaster.
Why they don't use proper terminals is a mystery.
You still haven't done it right. You need to leave strain relief on the stripped outer sheaf - each individual conductor should be looped on the way in and then placed in the terminals.
Thank you for the input, yes, I did realize that after I made this video and it would’ve made the job a whole lot easier to do the installation. Everything is working perfect
@@amsoiladam Victron have identified that extra strain on the wires as a major factor in these installations failing in the way your original installation did. Because the conductors in a 12V system are quite large you want your conductors going into the terminal at a 90 deg angle. Great that it's working well.
nice video but personally i don't get why you are not using those cable crimps..that you will move inside instead of normal wire. crimp is they way to go ..maybe that you what you have there but for sure that isn't proper way how to make those AC cables.
I’m not quite sure I understand what you mean
@@amsoiladam hard to explain but you used some kind of cable crimps instead you should be using ferrule crimps.. you can buy them exactly for your cables (area in my case mm2) and these should be used when you need to connect stranded wire..i know you used similar one but i believe those are not exact as they should be used. also you need to buy crimp tool..but that is cheap things to buy..i would like to add that there are short options and longer option and i expect you went with short option..of those ferrules
This sort connector would never pass UL inspection why Victron doesn't have UL certified inverters. Look at any breaker on side of your home does it use a push in connector on a 50 amp breaker no uses a screw clamp torque it with a torque screw driver.
It is my understanding that Victron has corrected this and now has all bolt down terminals
Adam... use 600 volt Anchor Marine wire...not what you are using. West Marine!
I ordered a victron on Amazon. When I saw the connection on the unit, I sent it back and got a different inverter with studs
What unit did you go with?
yeah, which one? problems are opportunities
so what s the mistake ? if you take too much power it should just shut down..if the unit worked for 1 week again the cables were ok..ah come on.. the conection they made sucks to be honest...they should just fit a screw type terminal
Adam, you’re assumption is absolutely correct and I would bet you did everything correctly. Those spring connections are horse shit and should be screw thread lugs.
The burning is caused by a loose connection and as the temperature goes up with amperage and loose spring connection, the cheap spring metal loses even more of it’s spring strength and the problem spirals out of control.
Heat up a safety pin and watch it lose it’s spring strength.
Keep in mind that the metals needed to make strong spring connections are nothing like the metals needed to make the best electrical connections.
They say not enough extra bare wire hanging past the shark bite…I say bullshit, it was a weak shark bite connection.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge
i would change the wires with solid ground wire .that ground wire is not large enough and i would go with stranded look at the ground on the other wire its stranded and much larger in diameter not solid you could have same problem again that solid ground wire could break under vibration of travelling .house wire should not be used on vehicles good luck with it
I usually strip the outer insulation of the cable way more. Let's say 4". Use the excess length to make a 360 degree curl towards you to allow each wire to move independent from each other. It will make mounting easier and there is less risk of mechanical stress since each wire can move independent form the others.
Thank you for the info
This is the way
i lost my previous comment ... but for what you do and what i hear... youll need 2 x Qaudro 5/10.000 48v depending on the budget and i would place some 48v 100amp batterys rackmount Litime/sok or something... there about 1400$ a piece...5kw ..4x 20kw ...but that means youll need to change your mppts also maybe depending on what you already have ( look up on victron mppt calculator and play with your panel info / strings and s / p and youll know if you can keep them or just by one more normaly you can keep them because 48v is better you can put more on the mppts than if you run a 12v system...so ja ... advantages ..) ... buttt the load you can put on those is higher pass true ...smaller calbles for the batterys ...but 48v batterys you can expand them more easy you just add as you go..in p.. - - sell what you have now and upgrade haha hard life ..i know ...
and or ....install a bridge so you can switch from wall only as a fail safe so that the high voltage is isolated from the solar side also an option ...
and if you do change mppts you may keep one to run external folable panels ...so dont just trow parts away sometimes you can still use them haha
Thank you for the input. But this system is working very well. The video you watched is a couple of years old and since I made these repairs and modifications, the entire system has worked absolutely flawlessly. No reason to go through all the trouble to change everything now. However, I do have plans on building a new system and a new application that will be a 48 V system. I just received the batteries the other day.
Never use gasoline with ethanol in it your generators, even with supposed Magic Snake oil that's supposed to make it okay, those don't work. If you use ethanol free gasoline in all your small engines, they will give you far, far less problems.
Whenever I make wire ends, I crimp, then solder, then use heat shrink with the glue inside, all with coated terminal ends. I have never had a problem since sealing them up like this. Never had any corrosion, or high resistance for years and years, even around lead acid batteries.
Maybe run a cable Inside the house to a plug sticking out the back.
Sounds like a good plan, thank you for your input
I don't think there is anything wrong with saying "This unit requires all wires to be of 4 Gauge with Ferrules of ". But to not have a sticker covering the terminal block that says that, and to let people learn it the hard way is pretty garbage. They should be doing more to inform the user of the requirement.
I’ve heard from other users that they have changed the terminal set up to the screwdown type in the newer models. And once I’ve made these repairs, the whole system has worked perfectly.
Ahhh.....the easy life a of motorcycle vendor lol. Really cool that the company stepped up and warrantee the system. That says a lot about their business ethics. Good stuff man!
Sailors use either Victron or Mastervolt systems. Both systems are excellent.
Yes fiction has a fantastic reputation and that’s why I was willing to pay a little bit more to get this unit as opposed to one of the Chinese units.
Yeah when I notified them of the problem I really expected them to say that it was installer error and that they couldn’t help me. I was very surprised and thankful that they were able to warranty the item
Thanks for the info. I have just purchased the same one along with new solar and more Lithium batteries. Getting ready to install and I’m sure glad I came across your video.
Thank you for watching, I’m glad that you found value in it.
Hi Adam , would you Suggest this victron system after having it for the year ? where did you purchase the components? Thanks Ps I see they've changed those blocks to terminals now obviously because the Ferrell connection was a cheaper way and wasn't an acceptable connection for the amperage. right? Scott
Yes, I would definitely recommend the system. It’s been two years now and ever since I made the corrections you saw in this video it is performed absolutely flawlessly. If you look at the off grid goliath playlist, there’s a lot more information on the products that I used on the original build. I purchased almost everything from Arizona Wind and sun
Victron no longer uses that type of push-in terminal. They now use a screw down terminal. That should tell you what caused this melt down! I personally won't buy any high current electrical device that uses those push-in terminals!
Yes, I have heard that they changed their system since this video. However, I must also say that once I made these corrections, the system has worked absolutely flawlessly.
This type of push connection is NOT acceptable for a 12V system which requires larger cables for 250A (3000/12=250) It would not be difficult to crimp some eyelets on the end and screw them down with a nut just like the DC side, although a bit smaller like M6. I have a pair of 48V 5000kva 230V versions in parallel and the AC1 input/ output and AC2 output are screw down terminals with zero problems in 5 years. I often see them producing 8000W with air con and water heater on together.
The 12 also did not use the push connectors. It was only the AC side that did. The 4/00 DC cables were stud and nut.
Ref commentry from 20:28 onwards. Quite sure that AC-Out is bigger than AC-In because of Power Assist capability of the MultiPlus II. What this means is that max current coming from grid/generator (AC-In) will be added to by the inverter itself (from batteries) in order to provide an even larger current on the AC-Out. Hope this makes sense.
Yes it does, thank you
that 7 strand 6/3 solid romex definitely doesn't need a ferrule, it will just eventually get loose and fall off without soldering. But the fine stranded marine wire did need the ferrule.
Thank you for the input, it’s been a year and a half now or more since I made this video, and since I made these repairs, the entire system has worked flawlessly
Im saying the same thing some others have said. Gotta use ferrules, and gotta use the right size wire. If it says use 6AWG, I dont think you can use a bigger (10AWG) wire and it will be ok. Also the ferrules you used are too small, you have to get the right size ferrules and the right crimper and they will fit perfectly into the ac in terminal. I think if that was a lug instead of plastic it could have been serious electrocution risk. Instead the plastic melted and it shut down saving you from injury. Here is an installation video and this guy is crimping and heat shrinking every connection using either lugs or ferrules. Good luck man you were nearly there. $10 ferrules cost a $1000 inverter unit, doh. Is the microwave load not on an AC breaker/fuse somewhere?
th-cam.com/video/E5q7_4FH4LQ/w-d-xo.html
Since I have made the repairs in this video the system has worked flawlessly, and 10 awg is not larger than 6
What you need to do is solder the ferrule on the wire, I have done that to all my connections and have no problems.
The system has worked perfect since I made these changes
The manual for the multiplus II clearly states input and output connections are to have ferrule pin crimps applied to the ends of the cable with a length of 0.7 inches. But they're not stating that what you should really be using is finally stranded wire like the SOOW cable you have for one of your connections. You don't force those cables into the spring connections you should release the spring tension with a small flathead screwdriver first, then insert the wire with ferrule crimps on it into each termination and release the spring. This has got to be done correctly or people are going to start having fires.
I think people have gotten lucky. Keep in mind that this is a European design and in Europe wiring is not done the same way as here in the United States. Everything is 240 volts or higher and therefore wire size is typically smaller for delivering the same amount of wattage.
Yes, I realize my mistake after the first install. Once completing the corrections made in this video everything has been working perfect
Thank you for the video!. I was just about to purchase one of these Victron units. However, I'm not convinced you were at fault here. I'm not impressed with those spring-loaded connectors. I'll most likely look for a unit that uses lugs.
Don’t hesitate with the victron, ever since I made the corrections, this unit has worked absolutely flawlessly, and I highly recommend it
This is not your fault, where is the inverter protection? This is a second generation toy. The push in connector for a 3000 watts rating is a joke.
The multiplus 1. Had two separate trasformers, replaceable parts , you could solder on it, it has much better ventilation, case, all better.
This is a fair eg of cutting manufacturing costs for secong generation. One long term australian installer said.Never use Gen 2 multiplus. Get the first gen, ask for discounted prices, never pay full online price. Its severely overpriced for what it is.
Now that I’ve made the repairs, everything has been working very well.
first word that comes to mind seeing those connectors is ''crap'', made for speedy connection not good connection, shame on them. i bought a 5kw victron about 6mths ago it had screw on connection. in your situation i would have used nice thick wire tightly twisted and hammered flat to increase contact area. i also spray all my fittings with wd 40, maybe there is something better to use? i live in the bush and have a large complex system,hydro ,solar to batteries, solar direct to heating elements. an electrician would have charged me at least $100,000 so i did it myself all with second hand cable from scrap dealers. including overhead transmission lines. often the cables need cleaning, i dip in acid, then water, then bicarb in water, water again, wire brush, wd 40 if i am clamping, some i have soldered which i prefer. one hydro scheme is about 700 mts away another around 300 metres. around 115 solar panels [mostly second hand $30 ] transmitting at 4 different voltages. i colour code the cables to help me keep trach of whats what. 100,000 for an electrician to do it probably a gross underestimation.....
Sounds like a really cool set up and you saved a bunch of money.
the second message might be from andy aystralian guy off grid garage ... he mentioned at least 2 times on his videos about disliking the style of those green terminals!!!! nice choice man... costy but worth trusty i guess!!!
So far, I have been very pleased with the system once these repairs were done
You might want to get an infrared camera to check all your terminations... loose connections and not torquing your lugs will cause this
That’s great advice, and I do check everything often!
I asked Adam to sell me old broken inverter , but he wants to fix it and keep for himself ,,, asked him not to be selfish and let me try it out , but Adam just disappeared
Maybe should of contact Northern Arizona wind and sun
What do you mean I just disappeared, I work for a living sorry took so long to get back to you but I have plans for it and I’m sorry if you can’t except that. You were the one that sounds selfish by trying to pressure me into giving it to you.
You didn't indicate that you used a feral crimping tool, you have to. You didn't use a romex connector or strain relief connector to hold the wire in place passing thru the exterior of the inverter. Also using the needle nose plier of the type that you used damaged the insulation of the wire, round the edges of the plier jaws with a file and put electrical tape over the serations. Also use heat shrink tube over the are where you grabbed the wire to push in, damaged insulation is your problem.
Thanks for the info
Few years ago I had contact with a technician from Phoenix (who I believe is the manufacturer of that type of PCB connector mounted on the Multiplus-II). I had a project working with Phoenix SPT spring loaded connectors and they where NOT recommending using ferrules when using spring-cage connections on heavy loads.
My project was concerning high DC loads in 12V systems, but If you can check the P/N number on the damaged mutliplus and look into the datasheet from Phoenix you would get all recommendations i believe.
Hello again!
I will get my 3 Multiplus-II for a offgrid 3 phase system next week, I will look into which type of connector there is and contact the same guy at Phoenix and see if he has any recommendations! I will also run some heavy loads from time to time, so I want it to work! Thanks again for your video!
Thank you for the information. Ever since I made the correction in this video the system has been working flawlessly
These terminals work great with solid core 6AWG wire, no ferrule needed. Everybody here who is trying to convince everybody else to use ferrules are the blind following the blind.
Your right, I’m working at Phoenix Contact as Well.. used prescribed stripping length and open terminal well with your screw driver, and you have a life long proper connected wire, absolutely shock proof..;)
@amsoil Adam. The needed stripping length should absolutely be specified in the manual of the inverter, AND it’s always written/specified on the green (phoenix Contact) terminal itself (mostly in one of the sides.)
The use of ferrules, especially with those quite ridged cables you use, are not a must. Only with high flex cable it’s recommended, ensuring you get all thin copper wires in, but also then you can do without. So: using the right stripping lengt of the wire is a must!
IF you Thea want to use ferrules, they should be exactly the diameter of the used wire, and the should have the same length as you adviced stripping length. On top of that you should then use a calibrated stripping tool to crimp them properly, because otherwise you creating a high resistance point between the wire and the ferrule again.. beware of that!
You are absolutely correct, since I’ve made these corrections, the system has been working flawlessly
@@amsoiladam its not on the instructions because they expect a professional to wire the unit like me
I wish they just used proper screw terminals indeed, just feels more secure.
I’ve heard that they’ve changed the system to the screwdown terminals and the new models. However, since I’ve made these repairs, everything has worked perfect.
Just found this from a Victron vendor: th-cam.com/video/xpXxVSlMSnQ/w-d-xo.html . It explains the proper connections and shows in detail the correct way to do the connections. I found that this helps. Best, Peter
Thank you, Peter, I greatly appreciate the information
What would be the consequence of having too much insulation removed?
I guess just the risk of something else touching that exposed area causing a short
Use ferule....I always use ferrules, it keeps all wires together and prevent a bad contact that would eventually generate fire..
Yes, that’s why I Fereld everything on the reinstallation
- If - you look at the quick installation guide www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/MultiPlus-II_12V-24V_3kVA_2x120V/MultiPlus-II___Quattro-II_120V-230V-en.pdf
, then you see there in Fig. 8:
1. quite clearly how far the cable must be stripped, namely exactly 18mm.
2. equally clear that the insertion depth is exactly 25.4mm.
Both are marked with the word CAUTION in red font extra, bold!
Thus, it should now be clear who has made a mistake here.
3. the cable you use is not really suitable for this type of terminal. Due to the multiple twisting, it comes to contact irregularities, so the resistance increases. An untwisted multiple stranded wire would be optimal here. Even if you would correctly mount and crimp a proper, suitable ferrule, the contact resistance with your line would still be unnecessarily high, because there is too much air in the connection due to the twisting.
4. the sleeves now used by the are junk. To use 2 because you do not have the right length and diameter is simply a botch job.
So get the right, highly flexible cable, if necessary you have to pull single wire, if there is not the quality in a 4-wire cable. And the appropriate ferrules, if you use a high quality cable, you will not need them.
Very stupid and poor design by Victron .
I’m sorry, let a pro do it for you. You don’t even know which ferrules to use.
I may do with what I had, and what I used does the same exact thing as a feral it stops the end from praying it may be shaped a little different, but since making these repairs, it’s been two years now, and the system has worked absolutely flawlessly
I watched a video where after installing his Victron Multiplus II, the guy stress tested it with 5700W (700W above rated power), for a good while, and filmed the unit and all the wiring in his system with a thermal camera to see if anything got alarmingly hot. I'm thinking this might be a good thing to do after learning of your experience. Even if I have an electrician do the install for me, there's no harm in checking his work that way... better safe than sorry.
I agree it’s always to be safe than sorry. I will say that after making these repairs, it has now been more than two years in the system has worked absolutely flawlessly.
@@amsoiladam good to hear. I’ve decided to spend a bit longer saving so I can go all Victron. Hard to find things built to last these days but Victron seem to be a good match.
Suggest you rewire ASAP to prevent more problems. Look into marine wiring standards : domestic solid wire cable is a very bad idea in vibration prone environments - it will stress fracture. You should be using flexible cable, such as Arctic grade and ferrule sleeves that go the full depth of the socket.
Everything is full depth now and the whole house is wired with solid core Romax style wire. I can’t rewire the whole thing
Biggest issue I could see that you had was settling. Fine stranded wire like first install will flatten out when you screw it down, but will flatten out a bit more and settle a bit even just with time. The ferrules would have helped more with that install than with the second one, but still useful. Looking more reliable now. That loose ferrule that went over the insulation was for a larger gauge cable.
feb of 2024, just checkin in to see if you have burned down you trailer yet.
No, sir, ever since I made the repairs in this video, the system has been working flawlessly
You might wanna check I think the cable that you’re using for the inverter may be the wrong type look on the website they recommended type of cable. I think it’s usually more like marine grade type with the real fine wire because of the environment that you are in vibration. Read on there website.
www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf
Page 24 recommended wire.
Consult with Victron to double check again I watched the video I think I could be wrong but that wire is more for a stable environment not mobile.
I know that the finer multi strand would probably be better, however I was working was what was already installed in the house.
I bought a Victron Multiplus II from Battleborn Batteries in March of this year. Installed it in my rig in April. Started camping in May at a frequency of 5 days camping and 3 days home, so been giving the rig a fair amount of use. 50/50 dry camping and hookups. We are currently camping and are going through a heat wave as is most of the country. The AC has been running a lot. Yesterday, I went to the store while my wife stayed with the rig. When I got back, she told me that everything turned off in the rig, then came right back on again. I took a look at the Victron app and saw that we were inverting. Checked the shore power and it was fine. Opened up my multiplus and found the neutral lead of the input terminal had fried. No other lead was affected.
My question is, has your second unit been okay with what you did to try to prevent the problem again?
I do not think that you or I had done anything wrong. I had about 5/8” of bare wire in that terminal. I think it’s simply a very poor design. It needs screw down terminals, period. Sorry for the long message.
I can see where on the first one it was probably my fault for not making good connections. However since the repairs in this video it has been working flawlessly
electricity is a cruel mistress. one might even say a bitch? got a decent spark off a 200 panel array... 500 volt 32 amp..
That’ll let you know that you’re alive
Check the temp rating of wire isulation!!!
Wonder if your better off with #6 - SO cord rather than that rigid ass romex
Yes, in theory, that would definitely be better. However, I didn’t want to rewire the entire house. And since I made these adjustments, it has been working flawlessly.
It’s because your ground is the most important art of the system, I don’t know how many systems I’ve gone to fix for others, where they installed it, the ground was bad and toasted everything else. Ground #1 priority!
Yes I agree, being automotive mechanic in a motorcycle mechanic all my life I understand how critical grounds are. One background can make the whole system go wacky
12:20 Well, i can understand your concerns, and for high power fixed installations, it's still standard to use screw bolts in most of the cases... But additionally it usually entails you to fasten those bolts to a very specific torque for optimal connectivity and safety..
Those 'Cage-Clamp' connectors on the other hand, are - if handled correctly - usually a way better solution for smaller loads, even up to your 50amp boxes. They always provide a defined amount of pressure, usually even provide a small edge to break oxydation on conductors and they're way easier to handle, especially if you change things from time to time.
Maybe look out for some WAGO vs Wirenut comparison clips on youtube. Even on the heating and melting side, wagos and other cage-clamp connectors usually come out as first in terms of security and easy handling. ;)
Juste some 2 cents from someone others ocd. ;)
Thank you
Yep, they work very very well transmitting 50A, you just have to use 6AWG wire (like the manual says), and the correct wire for permanent AC install (solid core).
So shitty connectors... Multiplus 12/800...24/1600 have much better ones.
when you are testing your system, try using a thermal tester (infrared) to see if the connector and cables for getting too hot.
It’s been working great for months. But I do like the idea of using a thermal camera
Ferrules are ok but crimper could be much better...
Why you did not use solid cable but strand instead?
The stranded is only on the AC in. Because it needed to be flexible to plug in my shore cord. The ACL is all solid core because that’s what the house is wired with
I just installed this unit on my 5th wheel. Tested everything but defiantly going to do a longer test pulling more amps and checking for heat at those connections. I was a little worried about my connections so I looked in the manual and it said wires should be stripped .7 inch. Thanks for your video, it does'nt take much to burn one of these rigs down!
I hope it all goes well for you, with the changes I made everything is been working really good so far
I had the exact same thing happen to mine. I had the Mutiplus II 2X120. I did get the unit replaced under warrantee. My comment to Arizona Wind and Solar was that spring clamps for a 50 amp outlet is a bad idea. It was the same common white wire outlet that burned out. I raised the draw off the generator to 42 amps and it burned up. I'm not an electrical engineer and this is strictly a guess, I'm thinking that when this is powered by the generator, the sine wave is synchronized. The would mean the common white wire could have as much as 84 amps on it. Unlike a split phase where the return voltage is self canceling, therefor reducing the voltage on the common wire to near zero.
I agree, however, since I’ve made these repairs, everything is worked flawlessly
Actually, he neutral carries the imbalance on any 120/240V system. If your load is balanced between the phases then the load will be near 0. If tou have a 30A load on one phase and a 15A load on the other, then the load on the neutral would be 15A.