The Blue Ice alpine runners are a lovely piece of kit. I use all the different lengths, but as a standard alpine draw I mainly use the 55 cm . Easy to use, less messy than my "normal" alpine draws - and they look good😎
From what I get from Blue Ice video, those are especially useful in improvised belays on mountaineeing situation. You can chuck them around a piece of rock and they should be much sturdier than a normal sling.
@@JBMountainSkills well depends on the rock you choose I guess. I got a red one to use for that a gold one for extended rappels or sport anchors, we'll see how well they do.
@@tyrionas of course but the even the long one is pretty short in reality, compared to regular slings. I like 'em but they haven't found a way on to my regular rack.
As an anchor sling it seems like it is quite reliant on you having 2 closely placed, bomber bits of kit. Might suit block leading on bolted belays maybe but can't see it being more useful than dyneema slings for uk trad.
How is it for use as a prusik? The edelrid ones are quite alright! I always liked the idea of having a full strength sling that doubles as a prusik for efficiency.
Nice bit of kit that, I like the 55 shown on their video as an alpine draw but at 16 quid I think that's a bit much, the skinny 8mm ones can be had for about half that. That 110 though is a great idea, for 2x pieces to belay it would be ideal, again it's quite expensive but more easily justified than 4 to 6 of the others with all of the plus points noted. Out of interest, do you know if these can be used as a prusik? For passing a knot with a VT for example this could be just the ticket. And can you girth hitch it directly, for example around a tree or are the eyelets too tight?
What if the Alpine Runner lasts twice as long? I don't know if it will or not, but I'm pretty sure they will last somewhat longer. Where I climb, that won't realistically be of any concern, but if someone was climbing somewhere with aggressive rock, like Skye, a lot, they may not seem quite so expensive? Maybe! The prusik is a good question that I hadn't thought of, I will look in to that!
@@JBMountainSkills good point on lasting longer, I assume as with most soft goods it's 10 years maximum to retirement? Given the amount of climbing I've got done in the last couple of years that would probably be the more valid retirement reason for me! Absolutely if replacing loads of soft goods or starting out they could be a good option. 👍
Thanks for a great overview! I bought a couple, thinking to use them primarily as you describe at 07:21 (as a personal anchor / belay extender combo), although I noticed a couple of days ago Blue Ice released a new video about the Alpine Runners, and right at the end they say that you shouldn't use them for this use case. Any thoughts on why? Their explanation is that it's because the runners are static fibre, although so are the (dyneema) slings we might otherwise use for extending.
You shouldn't use dyneema slings for personal anchor either. The recommended practice is to use dynamic rope for personal anchor, in case you fall into it.
@@SamMead yeah but don't expect the manufacturer to recommend this practice, they have to say it's not recommended because it's dangerous. If you decide to do it anyway that's up to you. At least that's whats I'm thinking is happening
Thanks for all your videos, iv found a lot of them really helpful. As for people concerned about the use of the larks foot master point, everything is situational. For me, if there is no risk of the sling breaking due to rubbing (it’s all hanging free and not over an edge etc) then there’s nothing wrong with it even if a bolt pulls out as the carabiner can’t get pulled through. And then if there is the chance of abrasion my personal would be another set up with a bit more redundancy. But the main point I guess I’d make to people is not to wipe something off and limit your tools in your tool box based on just 1 scenario.
Hey, thanks for sharing! This bit of kit was/is new to me. Maybe I did not get the point completely? I could buy like 1.5 or two slings for the same money. And they are more versatile. As alpine quickdraw I am happy to use a sling, for lanyard I have my rope or could use a sling or have a Petzl adjust with me anyway. anchor on a bolted multi pitch: If I do not want to do the knots again and again, I can prepare a bit of old climbing rope with two biners and I am done - basically for free.
For sure it's a niche bit of kit. As the video says, absolutely not a replacement for good old slings. I suspect they'll last longer than my 6mm / 8mm slings, even more so if you were climbing places with rougher rock like Skye, so maybe they'd be cost effective then. Maybe. Whilst making your own version out of rope (basically no different to a cordlette) would 100% work, it wouldn't be quite as strong, and would be bulkier too. We could all ditch slings entirely and make our own out of cord. We don't though because slings are a much neater solution. The Alpine Runner is a bit like that, just another potential tool for your rack, that you may or may not want.
@@JBMountainSkills thanks for the reply. I get the point regarding durability, which makes it worth considering. I'll check it out once I see it in a store.
Hi Jez, looking to understand better whether this would work as a VT prussic, considering its sheath is made from HTPE which has a melting point of 125 Celcius. The Valdotain prussic used in canyoneering has a Technora sheath with an extremely high melting point 500 Celcius. ultimate use to decent a weighted line.
I’m not sure what you mean by double protection? If you mean that a girth hitch slips and therefore isn’t truly redundant then no, it doesn’t slip at forces of interest to us as part of a belay and Blue Ice do show it as being ok in their instruction booklet.
I think not double protection means not independent? but I didn't understand how you did the knot so I don't know if it will slide free of the screwgate in the same situations as sliding X.
I thought the larks foot was a particularly weak knot. Dyneema isn't great with knots, too slippery and doesn't stretch. Is the sheath nylon? That would be better for knots as it is grippier.
on How not 2 they showed how a girth hitch masterpoint is not redundant, the only way to make it redundant is by using a sling, making it like the sliding x and then girth hitching this,
Yeah the tests I've seen, of which there's quite a lot now show about 4-6kn when using a carabiner. Always slow pull tests though which aren't ideal. Is 4-6kn enough to have from a belay setup? Depends. Often yes though. I would imagine that this Alpine Runner would require more force to slip.
@@JBMountainSkills Problem would be if there where any failure whilst sat in it under tension and you lost your perch as it blew you can end up shock loading it, which from test that how 2 also did can go up to around 4kn,
The Blue Ice alpine runners are a lovely piece of kit. I use all the different lengths, but as a standard alpine draw I mainly use the 55 cm . Easy to use, less messy than my "normal" alpine draws - and they look good😎
Definitely good bits of kit!
From what I get from Blue Ice video, those are especially useful in improvised belays on mountaineeing situation. You can chuck them around a piece of rock and they should be much sturdier than a normal sling.
Sturdier for sure, but there's not going to many times they're long enough to be honest.
@@JBMountainSkills well depends on the rock you choose I guess. I got a red one to use for that a gold one for extended rappels or sport anchors, we'll see how well they do.
@@tyrionas of course but the even the long one is pretty short in reality, compared to regular slings. I like 'em but they haven't found a way on to my regular rack.
Nice video. Thanks for the showcase, and thoughts.
My pleasure!
I think there’s a place on my rack for that, thank you for showing a bit about that!
Also I appreciate your logic in explaining what actual concerns you have for different goals in your adventure.
My pleasure!
As an anchor sling it seems like it is quite reliant on you having 2 closely placed, bomber bits of kit. Might suit block leading on bolted belays maybe but can't see it being more useful than dyneema slings for uk trad.
It's definitely niche, for sure.
How is it for use as a prusik? The edelrid ones are quite alright! I always liked the idea of having a full strength sling that doubles as a prusik for efficiency.
Good question! I don't know, I will look in to it :)
Not to be used a prusik
Great. Thanks Jez. Only problem I can see is someone will say ‘where’d you get that red bit of string - a ship’s chandkers’ 😂😂
Haha 😂
Nice bit of kit that, I like the 55 shown on their video as an alpine draw but at 16 quid I think that's a bit much, the skinny 8mm ones can be had for about half that. That 110 though is a great idea, for 2x pieces to belay it would be ideal, again it's quite expensive but more easily justified than 4 to 6 of the others with all of the plus points noted. Out of interest, do you know if these can be used as a prusik? For passing a knot with a VT for example this could be just the ticket. And can you girth hitch it directly, for example around a tree or are the eyelets too tight?
What if the Alpine Runner lasts twice as long? I don't know if it will or not, but I'm pretty sure they will last somewhat longer. Where I climb, that won't realistically be of any concern, but if someone was climbing somewhere with aggressive rock, like Skye, a lot, they may not seem quite so expensive? Maybe!
The prusik is a good question that I hadn't thought of, I will look in to that!
@@JBMountainSkills good point on lasting longer, I assume as with most soft goods it's 10 years maximum to retirement? Given the amount of climbing I've got done in the last couple of years that would probably be the more valid retirement reason for me! Absolutely if replacing loads of soft goods or starting out they could be a good option. 👍
Thanks for a great overview! I bought a couple, thinking to use them primarily as you describe at 07:21 (as a personal anchor / belay extender combo), although I noticed a couple of days ago Blue Ice released a new video about the Alpine Runners, and right at the end they say that you shouldn't use them for this use case. Any thoughts on why? Their explanation is that it's because the runners are static fibre, although so are the (dyneema) slings we might otherwise use for extending.
You shouldn't use dyneema slings for personal anchor either. The recommended practice is to use dynamic rope for personal anchor, in case you fall into it.
@@Argcz well yes that’s the theory but I think using a sling is pretty common, e.g. th-cam.com/users/shortsNc6TTsOUrUo?feature=share
Even better example: th-cam.com/video/nr3YBDnOI8Q/w-d-xo.html
@@SamMead yeah but don't expect the manufacturer to recommend this practice, they have to say it's not recommended because it's dangerous. If you decide to do it anyway that's up to you. At least that's whats I'm thinking is happening
Thanks for all your videos, iv found a lot of them really helpful.
As for people concerned about the use of the larks foot master point, everything is situational. For me, if there is no risk of the sling breaking due to rubbing (it’s all hanging free and not over an edge etc) then there’s nothing wrong with it even if a bolt pulls out as the carabiner can’t get pulled through. And then if there is the chance of abrasion my personal would be another set up with a bit more redundancy.
But the main point I guess I’d make to people is not to wipe something off and limit your tools in your tool box based on just 1 scenario.
Glad you like 'em!
You're right, got to pick the right belay for the right situation.
each time your dog jumped on screen I thought a black bear was about to attack you. I gasped and then laughed each time. :P
He looks quite bear like, just not as scary!
Nice video, but I would defenitly be worried about the girth hitch slipping if one of the nuts or bolts pop.
What force does it slip at? The answer is not at a figure that concerns me as part of a belay.
It’s also shown as ok in the Blue Ice booklet.
New Dyneema can slip as low as 2Kn in the girth hitch master point. It would be interesting to know where this thing slips with the added sheath.
Hey, thanks for sharing! This bit of kit was/is new to me.
Maybe I did not get the point completely?
I could buy like 1.5 or two slings for the same money. And they are more versatile.
As alpine quickdraw I am happy to use a sling, for lanyard I have my rope or could use a sling or have a Petzl adjust with me anyway. anchor on a bolted multi pitch: If I do not want to do the knots again and again, I can prepare a bit of old climbing rope with two biners and I am done - basically for free.
For sure it's a niche bit of kit. As the video says, absolutely not a replacement for good old slings.
I suspect they'll last longer than my 6mm / 8mm slings, even more so if you were climbing places with rougher rock like Skye, so maybe they'd be cost effective then. Maybe.
Whilst making your own version out of rope (basically no different to a cordlette) would 100% work, it wouldn't be quite as strong, and would be bulkier too.
We could all ditch slings entirely and make our own out of cord. We don't though because slings are a much neater solution. The Alpine Runner is a bit like that, just another potential tool for your rack, that you may or may not want.
@@JBMountainSkills thanks for the reply. I get the point regarding durability, which makes it worth considering. I'll check it out once I see it in a store.
Hi Jez, looking to understand better whether this would work as a VT prussic, considering its sheath is made from HTPE which has a melting point of 125 Celcius. The Valdotain prussic used in canyoneering has a Technora sheath with an extremely high melting point 500 Celcius.
ultimate use to decent a weighted line.
I asked Blue Ice if it was ok to use as a Prusik, they said no.
@@JBMountainSkills Did they give any more information than that ?
hmm, don't you lose double protection with the girth hitch ?
I’m not sure what you mean by double protection? If you mean that a girth hitch slips and therefore isn’t truly redundant then no, it doesn’t slip at forces of interest to us as part of a belay and Blue Ice do show it as being ok in their instruction booklet.
I think not double protection means not independent? but I didn't understand how you did the knot so I don't know if it will slide free of the screwgate in the same situations as sliding X.
pretty sure Hownot2 did a video on girth hitches where they showed its basically impossible to get the girth hitch to slip even with dyneema.
Could you not make your own- figure of eight on each end of section of spare climbing rope ?
Would be heavy though
50g per metre plus a bulky knot, yes you could but...
100% you could. Cheaper but bulkier, less neat and less strong unless you go for proper chunky cord.
I thought the larks foot was a particularly weak knot. Dyneema isn't great with knots, too slippery and doesn't stretch. Is the sheath nylon? That would be better for knots as it is grippier.
Even if it weakens the runner by 50%, it would be 11kn, not all nuts are that strong. Not a realistic concern for me in this application
@@JBMountainSkills I found this video with tests, the use of the magic x is interesting. th-cam.com/video/dgHlAlucRvc/w-d-xo.html
cool video
Cheers!
on How not 2 they showed how a girth hitch masterpoint is not redundant, the only way to make it redundant is by using a sling, making it like the sliding x and then girth hitching this,
What force does it slip at?
It’s also shown as ok in the Blue Ice booklet.
@@JBMountainSkills about 4kn
@@JBMountainSkills but maybe the sheath on that one allows it to bite better then just dynema on a sling
Yeah the tests I've seen, of which there's quite a lot now show about 4-6kn when using a carabiner. Always slow pull tests though which aren't ideal.
Is 4-6kn enough to have from a belay setup? Depends. Often yes though.
I would imagine that this Alpine Runner would require more force to slip.
@@JBMountainSkills Problem would be if there where any failure whilst sat in it under tension and you lost your perch as it blew you can end up shock loading it, which from test that how 2 also did can go up to around 4kn,
Isn’t it 🤣?