I’ve had a couple of cases where I came too close to another plane and as a student these had immediate impacts on my confidence, in both cases archived ADSB data and LiveATC allowed me to examine the situation with my instructor and determine that I didn’t do anything wrong and took appropriate action. It’s been great for me as a tool for learning.
@@prodigalpilot just remember to make good calls. I have to divide my attention to other traffic and my student too. I live and fly out of a private airport with a 38’ wide runway… I deal with antiques like you all the time. Get a handheld and make good calls so I can find you. You have my word my heads on a swivel as much as it can be.
I did all my flight training without ADSB (prior to the mandatory need) I then years later rode in the same area in an ADSB-in equipped plane. It was eye opening. The amount of stuff I was missing was crazy.
@@daveminnigerode8274 My question why can't we track location to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
@@crissd8283 Yes, it's technically possible, for example with public key cryptography, but probably not on the minds of the people who wrote the regulations. And it would add complexity, etc.
@@LoanwordEggcorn No it isn't. You don't need some fancy encryption. It could be just like a SQUAK code. Everyone has the same ID number, unless ATC gives you a different code at which point you entire it into your ADS-B out. This is super simple. It's not like you need an ID so the ADS-B system can send information specifically back to you. Your system monitors the location of other aircraft and gives you warnings independent of any other systems so ADS-B warning in your aircraft don't come from a central command but your own system.
I love that the guy with an airplane on a road is surprised to see a car, but the cars who saw the airplane on the road just cruise on by like it’s a normal thing 😂
Tracking devices on vehicles might help with recoveries, it could list the type of tires used so you could determine which fork in the road to take based on tire tread design.😉
@@timothybarker9525 those aren't roads perse, more like trails for off road activities. One that he landed on I think is a trail that goes to a local rock crawling spot. Usually there aren't a ton of people out there unless it's a holiday weekend.
I'm a Flight Observer in the USAF Aux: Civil Air Patrol. As an organization we get tasked all the time to conduct aerial searches for potentially downed aircraft. ADS-B is a tool we use regularly to help narrow down search area parameters when planning search and rescue missions. Because the system talks to other aircraft, ground stations and satellites, it's still transmitting your location after ATC looses you from radar. So if your plane goes down it helps reduce the time it can take to find your location and guide in ground teams to we hope to find survivors or at least locate remains so that families might get some closure. It's not perfect but any tool we can use to hopefully find survivors in a timely manner is better.
Why can't track location to prevent midair while keeping the plane anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
@@crissd8283 thats like hiding your license plate unless the cops want to see it. You drive all over the country and anyone with an account can see your license plate and registration.
@@whs2220 Is ADS-B intended for law enforcement?? No they sold it as safety. The N number on an aircraft is always visible just like a license plate. The equivalent in a car to ADS-B would be a GPS tracker which would require a court order to require a person to have a GPS tracker on their car. If the government decided to require a tracker on every car, people would be up in arms and an the ACLU would get it shot down.
I think an anonymized system would be a good idea. Instead of broadcasting tail numbers private pilots could have random IDs assigned (and re-assigned on a regular basis if desired) to preserve some privacy. I do think commercial flights should be fully identified though.
@@0akgrove Sure, the FAA will still know, but all the private ADS-B trackers won't. For example Elon Musk's private jet won't have a twitter account anymore.
@@TrentonPalmer There is an anonymous system associated with ADS-B called the Privacy ICAO Address (PIA) program. You have to get a third-party callsign from a vendor (ForeFlight and FltPlan are two) -- which obviously isn't free -- then you can get a new hex code to program into your ADS-B Out box that isn't associated with your tail number. Basically, it's possible to be anonymous to the public, but the FAA has made it a costly hassle.
So is there a way to track location to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
In awe of your flying and videos Trent. Also in agreement about the safety value in ADSB in/out in addition to flight following. The number of times I've been alerted to traffic and STILL been unable to get them in sight tells me that "see and avoid" isn't as easy as we think.
My question is why can't we track locations to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy. Similar to squaking 1200. It tells radar where you are but they don't know tail number.
@@crissd8283 Why are you so concerned about your privacy? Flying is a privilege, not a right. That privilege can be removed by the FAA. More important is the safety in airspace of everyone around you that uses it, than just you and your right to privacy. I'm just having a hard time with your individualism coming across as being selfish and not caring about everyone else in the sky. The whole system was built for the purpose of transparency. You come across as having something to hide.
We have the right to privacy. The argument that if you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear disregards the entire point of privacy. Also, it may be that the FAA doesn't have time to watch you but if they have someone they want to catch they can go through all the records and find them. I really wonder if there is a way to track location to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
Thanks Trent! As a pilot and a drone operator with drones equipped with ADSB receivers, I really like knowing when aircraft are near me, especially helicopters that tend to fly low and fast in the areas I work in.
I'm curious what your using for ADSB on your drones. I'd like to check out more on this and what information it can provide aside from the fact that aircraft are close by. I fly close to myself and usually will do some maneuvers followed by dropping altitude to make sure we are all safe. The last thing I want to be responsible for bringing down GA aircraft.
@@justplanefred I use DJI drones, of which most now have a feature called AirSense, an ADSB receiver of sorts which alerts me to the presence of aircraft nearby which are using their ADSB. I can turn it on or off, but except for certain situations, it stays on all the time.
I am a firm believer in ADSB. I left the USAF 15 years ago and ADSB conceptually was supposed to be used for ground collision avoidance at major airports. Now, having completed my PPL and used both ADSB OUT and IN via foreflight, I would never fly without. While you can clear visually and radio wise, you won’t be able to see those not talking. Bar none it’s the best positional awareness and collision avoidance in GA aircraft. It works and the entire community is better for it.
Totally agree, and one of the best benefits is ADSB-in (FIS-B) weather. Yes, it's not absolute real-time - it can be delayed, but still - it's free in-flight digital weather! Coming from a guy who learned to fly in the '80's, when all we has was FSS, ADSB-in weather is an absolute game-changer! Huge safety boon for general aviation.
Another very good video. Thanks Trent. I agree whole heartedly that the pros way outweigh the cons. There are a couple of issues that I don't see mentioned very often though: 1. ADS-B is the billing mechanism used by countries that charge airspace user fees. For each flight in certain airspace you will get a bill in the mail for navigation charges and those bills are generated automatically from ADS-B data 2. The FAA may not have time to sit around and monitor ADS-B data, but their computers certainly do. Automatic notice of violations are common in Europe. There are those who say that user fees and automatic notices of violation will never come to the USA, while others think it is inevitable.
@@paul8498 Exactly. If safety is the goal then why isn't ADS-B anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is. Making it anonymous would certainly increase uptake of the technology for those that don't want big brother riding along on every flight.
You do a great job promoting safety and balanced flying. I don't recommend a lot of TH-cams to my kids who are learning to fly but I never worried about your message. Keep it up.
Hello "Trench" Palmer. Prior to ADSB I had at least three near mid-airs. Only one in power but that one was not the scariest. I'm not sure the other pilot ever saw me but I pushed hard to go under him. And my passengers were a mother and her two kids. I guess I was a good actor because they never got rattled. At least not as much as I was. But as a glider pilot you almost expect to be WAY too close to other aircraft. You often thermal (circle) with other gliders and can be uncomfortably close. I once actually overlapped wings with another glider. I had such an adrenaline rush that my body went ice cold afterwords. The other pilot and I discussed it afterwords and he was so nonchalant that I made a note to myself to never fly anywhere near him again. Admittedly he was probably just being defensive about his (more or less) causing the overlap.
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are, without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
A few years ago, simple S mode transponder basically saved my life. I was going VFR, south to north of Paris (France), and flight following was crazy with activity. But on my path was the D class airspace of Pontoise TMA (now Le Bourget TMA). So 3 minutes before the border, I left flight following and switched to Pontoise APP. That went that way: - Pontoise Approach, F-GDDD, good afternoon. - F-DD Pontoise, traffic information, unknown aircraft, no radio contact, less than a mile, 11 o'clock left to right 200 ft below and climbing. The controller was speaking VERY fast, with a real tone of relief that she finally heard from one of us. So I straightened into my seat, pulled my head as forward as possible, put my aircraft in a slip to look directly forward, and sure enough, there he was, a high-wing ultralight, following the outside of the D class limit, about 300 m in front of me. When I was flying straight, he was hidden by my engine, and I was hidden by his wing the whole time. With an older C mode transponder, by the time the approach controller and I could talk back and forth to have her identify me, the ultralight and myself would have been stacked in the same spot. Only the fact that the controller had my registration on her screen allowed her to know immediately exactly who just called and what to tell me. So I'm with you on ADS-B. We need to know where aircraft are, and we need to have registrations or callsigns along with the dots so we can call out or be called out. And anyone who has a privacy issue with that, I'd wonder what they do that's so mysterious that they can't allow anyone to know even for safety's sake. (And anyway, people for whom stealth is that important can still turn their transponders off.)
I've been installing ADS-B on military aircraft for the last couple of years now. Those systems have the ability to turn off the ads-b (for tracking purposes) but they are on by default. ADS-B brings a lot of safety to the table and it really should be on all aircraft.
I have ADS-B in and out. It works great but there is a lot of military traffic in California that do not have ADS-B out. I still have to look outside. DO NOT really on ADS-b showing everything. I look forward to the military making flight safer.
Being a student at a flight college in Florida with the densest air traffic in the country (the majority made of inexperienced student pilots) you learn to love ADS-B real quick.
"all the regulations are there for good reason" and yet you are currently getting screwed over by the FAA as they pick and choose which data to use against you in their investigation. I can empathize with the skeptical people. I still like ADSB for traffic deconfliction and weather. It's great stuff!
Our area had no ADS-B receivers, so as a amateur radio operator I installed the FlightAware raspberry pi receiver for both 978 and 1090 ADS-B. Now our flights/planes show up on the maps. In training it's nice to review your flight online. When flying with ADS-B IN your plane is it's own receiver and it's great for all the points you mentioned Trent.
ADS-B is the elephant in the room, but where we can take advantage of it is the “hockey puck” where we see each other is what saved you on your close call. The other pilot was obviously not using his available information.
some planes with simpler avionics don't even have the ability to display traffic. There are a lot of planes with add-on ADS-B out transponders that are self-contained with a GPS and hidden in the panel or added as a modified tail-light fixture.
Flying in the busy So Cal airspace ADSB is a godsend. It has given me an awareness I never had and has saved several near hits. I encourage everyone to get it.
My wife and I almost died in a midair collision a number of years ago. Climbing at 65 knots in a C152, a Mooney passed directly by us from the rear. I'd estimate his speed was 160 knots plus, and probably about 50 feet away. The scary part was that, regardless if I had the right of way, we'd all still be dead and my son would be orphaned. That created a deep fear of midair collisions for me. ADSB has huge potential for preventing such accidents.
@@sledawgpilot Well you can't see someone closing on you at a hundred knots from above and behind you while climbing in a high wing. ADS-B sees conflicts all the time you'd never catch with the naked eye. It's great!
@@keithrickson8522 Those kinds of close calls stick with you, don't they? One thing to keep in mind, ADSB doesn't flawlessly report your position, and the equipment isn't always accurate. They do fail on occasion too (mine stops working every now and then for no reason, and the avionics shop hasn't been able to diagnose it). I've had people nearly fly into me and both of us had ADSB working. It's also really easy to find yourself relying too much on ADSB and not enough on visual observation....not everyone has ADSB, not all ADSB is reporting or accurate, and not everyone is paying attention, so it's still just as important to keep your eyes out of the cockpit as it was before ADSB existed.
I just don't get why ADS-B can't be anonymous? Just like squak code 1200. It tells ATC your location so they can direct traffic around you but it doesn't tell them who you are. ADS-B could easily track location for collision avoidance while being anonymous.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper For sure! Eyes outside of the cockpit as much as possible. See and avoid should ALWAYS be the primary tactic to avoid collision avoidance. But, reliable or not, it could possibly help things, when it's working correctly.
In southern Germany we have thousands and thousands of gliders, all equiped with FLARM. On the weekend the sky is full of oven cloth and balsa broadcasting that. As a consequence my C172 has ADSB and FLARM installed as most aircraft here in the area do. That gives us good situation awareness and avoided collisions for me. More than once.
Apprecaite this video, I'm pretty sure ADS/B just saved my ass today. I was climbing out of my home airport on my way to 7,500ft when I noticed traffic 900 ft above and almost directly behind me gaining on my pretty quickly on my same heading. I leveled off my climb and saw that he was descending. I made an S-Turn to the left to separate our tracks and saw his cirrus pass by me at almost level altitude. Had it not been for the ADS/B-In data, I'd not have known he was there. We were on different frequencies (I was still on my departure airport, I'm sure he was on the airport he was descending into). This is why it frustrates me that there are still people out there who outright refuse to install even just a simple UAvionix kit. They'll spend all sorts of money on other things on their plane, but they complain about the costs of the ADB/B simply because its mandated by the FAA.
Normally, I'm a huge advocate for personal privacy, especially from the government. But in this case, ADSB provides important information about other traffic that may be in close proximity, as well as important, up-to-date weather information. It's also pretty cool that my family can watch me as I fly. So, in this case, I fully support the requirement for aircraft to be equipped with ADSB-out, and would strongly advise pilots to pick up an ADSB-in receiver to take advantage of all of that information.
The Ugly: There are multiple local and federal government entities using ADSB for purposes of revenue collection. The FAA addressed this practice specifically on a document located in the intestinal fortitude of their website. I challenge everyone to find it. "not to be used for purposes of revenue collection." A local tax office was caught using ADSB for finding aircraft within the county to verify status for purposes of tax collection. The FAA is not concerned about the safety of others contrary to what is published. If that were the case their actions would show it. There was no additional infrastructure put in place 35 years ago to improve safety other than education of the aircraft pilot. If a government puts a system in place then its not usually looking for the best interests of is citizenry based on past history its rather to improve the posture of said government. Its sold as an improvement on safety so to be pushed through and accepted. This current generation has been programmed that if the "safety" word is used then best not argue...ADSB receive is very useful. It could have been implemented without GPS capability with improvements to current infrastructure at a fraction of the cost. Think about the GPS in every mobile phone. People are being tracked on mobile phones for the government and local agencies using nothing but the GPS signal and a unique id number.
If all it was, was tcas, traffic collision avoidance system, like all the big birds and military have, basically on board radar, I don't think many people would complain. Adsb isn't that. Its screaming your id everywhere you go, not just your presence. All that should be needed is the transponder you already need, and a means to ping others to see where they are when they're nearby.
I have a strong libertarian streak, but I’m with you on ADSB. I will not fly without it. It allows me to be proactive in avoiding collisions rather than just reactive. Besides, it allows family to follow along at home if they desire. :)
"Besides, it allows family to follow along at home if they desire. :):" Provided you are flying near enough to a ground station that copies ADSB-IN data to the network.
Trent, the requirement came out in “2010” that all aircraft except “excepted” being military, vip, etc, be equipped. I used to do Search and Rescue for the FAA-following primary targets. I was given dept and dear by loved ones looking for their overdue aircraft. If you are hanging from a tree after an accident, ADS-B will find you much better than earlier options. Life saver!
Had two instances where I was grateful for ADSB in the pattern at a busy Phoenix area airport. Once in training with my CFI where we were told by tower to descend but saw ADSB traffic under us, and the other on my PPL check ride where I was told by tower to turn crosswind where a helicopter was transitioning. No mangled metal and passed the check ride, and will forever be a believer in ADSB!
Highest probability of collision occurs on or near turn to final, in an airport environment (controlled & uncontrolled), during DAY VFR (especially under CAVU conditions)! It's counter intuitive, I know, because that's the time when your head is on a swivel & your ability to see stuff is the best. Yet, aircraft hit each other with increasing frequency, year over year. [insert facepalm emoji here...and headstone emoji]
@@TenorDad I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. If safety is the only goal, then it doesn't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
Thanks Trent for being such a great example of responsible airmanship. Your take on this subject is spot on when it comes to maintaining our freedom to fly low and slow.
Trent, you dismissed the law enforcement aspect of ADSB because you spoke to a friend in the FAA who said "we don't have the time to look at this stuff" I don't think the long term FAA goal is to have humans look at ADSB data. Data is permanent more or less. Government agencies tend to keep it a LONG time. How long does the FAA retain ADSB flight data? How long does flight aware retain this data? (Which is likely supena-able).. Keep in mind Flightaware may retain the data a LOT longer than they make it searchable on their website; It's quite possible that the FAA has long term plans to use AI and ML to search through the ADSB data to look for violations. What is the statute of limitations for FAA violations? Pretend it's 2027 and the FAA just went live with their new AI/ML enforcement project. Can they prosecute pilots for breaking a rule 5, 10, 15 years ago? When they finally get around to analyzing the ADSB data for every flight? Even if they don't have the capability today. They may retain the option to "look back" at violations in years past when they eventually obtain technology to analyze ADSB data for violations in an automated fashion. Again, imagine it's 2027 and a pilot is charged with an FAA violation of some sort. Perhaps the government will have the ability to search the ADSB logs of every flight a pilot has ever made to look for potential violations made in years past prior to the current charge in order to force the pilot to settle the charge without fighting it. Very few people can afford to fight multiple accusations by a prosecutor with unlimited resources.Attourneys are just too expensive and they will be financially ruined even if they "win" against the government.
Once I was doing some pattern work at KTCY late at night to get my night currency up. The next day, I woke up to a twitter DM from someone that lived under my pattern asking about my flight. Apparently, the guy had looked me up on ADS-B. It went well, but it was weird. I do love ADS-B for seeing other aircraft, but that definitely gave me a little pause.
Love adsb. New pilot here. Was flying up the Jersey coast at 3500’ on a hot hazy day. Had a target at 3500’ coming down the shore almost head on. Was able to swing out a few miles and avoid long before the other aircraft was even in sight. Not a 100% solution ( then again what is) but if used with see and avoid is a great tool.
@@knussear hope all is well with your family ken. I dont get much contact now scince are fly ins fell apart but i think about people often.Some how the world changed and i didnt keep up with it. Say high to your folks for me . I was just lookin at the baloon fiesta. Pretty much trying to get into a stol kit fox rans 7, super stol. Lot of bucks may the force be with you
@@knussear ya me too ken. I bought a challenger 11 restored it and put a stewart sys paint job on it. But with my diability its exstreamly hard for me to get in and out. A good bush plane would be perfect for sonya to fly with me. Trent has me drooling all the time! Iam also looking at the Norden
I used an ADS-B receiver for the Capstone system in Alaska for a few years before it was mandated in the lower 48. Commercial operators were required to equip, but not private. It was great to see traffic on my iPad as many of the air taxi drivers barely used their radios. Or when BET puts you in a holding pattern with 3 other planes during "shaky" visibility. It's a great tool, but not the be all and end all, we have to remember to scan outside and listen as well.
7:16 - Just some fuel for thought on this point. While they don't monitor right now, it's entirely possible that there will be automated systems that will do this in the future. Such systems are widespread already in the corporate world for things like process management and ATC systems probably have some automated flight monitoring as well so the tech is already there, it is probably just a matter of time. It's also likely being recorded and stored for archive retrieval when future systems can process the data. The point here I guess is people who aren't comfortable being tracked can sense where this may be heading and want to avoid it before it's too late, if that's even possible.
I understand your argument but I think I'd prefer to be in one piece rather than a smoking hole in the ground and I don't care that ADSB tracks could be stored ad infinitum. But I live in the UK, so things are a bit different here.
Totally agree. I think we have all seen how far governments will go if they are able to. The thing here is that there is no need for the tracking or the personal privacy breaches to make a good safe system like ADSB work. So why is it so invasive?
@@paul8498 it’s not inherently invasive, the system only works by broadcasting all the time. Trent was saying that the FAA doesn’t have the manpower to constantly monitor so why the paranoia?
Counter points (from a canuck no less). The "nothing to hide" argument is a slippery slope - it might be not be FAR issues, but other privacy issues and a change in politics could result in a recorded track putting you offside with the authorities. Not sure what one can legally do, but again - free speech slippery slope. The "no time to fish" argument is also naive. Computer tech is getting very sophisticated in filtering. Inspectors may not have time to fish, but the rack of servers in the data centre can - and one should assume are. That said - ADSB is a general good. And as a arm chair plane spotter with an ADSB feeder supplying uncensored data to ADSBExchange - check them out and join!
There should be an "anonymous mode" that can be selected outside of controlled airspace. I would equip then. It would still support the safety aspects you are harping on.
If the FAA doesn't currently have the time to look for violations in ADSB data, what prevents them from automating that search? I wish we could just set that fear to rest with a randomized identifier rather than registered call signs
Adsb is a brilliant technology. If it saves just 1 person its worth it. Rally cars uses a timing/emergency system that is loosely based on the same concept (excluding satellites). System uses GSM but also communicate digitally with other cars clocks and passes time when gsm connectivity is established again. In an emergency you push a button and passing cars are alerted to stop and assist. Has saved lives.
Precisely! It wouldn't be hard to write a program to scour ADSB data like a traffic camera watches intersections. Just write the code to look for patterns and flag the flights.
I'm never concerned about the FAA keeping track of us... it's people on the ground who complain about engine noise or think we're "spying" on them, etc. who look at ADSB tracking, find tail numbers and create trouble. But yes, overall the safety advantages are worth it.
Only good thing about that is when they complain you are “buzzing their house” and the adsb track puts you at 4000’ agl, then it makes them look the fool that they are.
During covid a popular drone pilot I watch had an FAA investigator get onto him for not having a part 107 license and even told him during covid they were sitting at home watching people on TH-cam for violations so yes I don’t buy they won’t be watching..
Trent, great video and insight as always! Agree with you totally and as we all know from recent events mid air collisions happen way to often! A BRS is a nice option that might give you another chance depending on the circumstances. The reason every Cirrus has one is because one of the founding brothers was in a mid air collision before the company was started. Many lives have been saved in mid airs with a chute. But the best solution is prevention and ADSB is a great tool for that! Best to all and fly safe!
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
I only flew a few years before adsb started and i can say hands down its better with it. I love the situational awareness it gives. I see planes on every flight that i probably would never have been able to spot without it. That said the regulation is still a real threat. If they did have the time and power to look at all the data. And they are getting there fast. Their will be more and more hassel like what you are getting. Consequence of Barney fifes in the world. We just need more Andys at the helm over the Barneys.
With the amount of people joining GA as a whole ADS-B in and out is kind of a must that way visual reference of where potential flying risks are at at all times to avoid Mid Air Collisions. I thought it was stupid when it was first announced but once I started my LSP training I discovered how beneficial it is to have especially in Phoenix air space.
ADS-B isn't mandated here in Canada (yet), I put in and out in C-FMVU and in the busy airspace I fly in (Toronto / Southern Ontario / Montreal / Quebec City) it does give me an extra layer of assurance that I can see some of the other traffic; but because it isn't yet mandated probably 75% of the GA planes around me don't have it. Two weeks ago we did a flight, and from the departure airport (CYOO) I heard two departing aircraft that were going to the same destination that Julie and I were heading to. They didn't have ADS-B, I couldn't see them, they couldn't see me. But we knew from position reports that we were fairly close, and one of the other pilots started freaking out because he couldn't locate us in the sky... I peeled off, did a giant circle to let them get well ahead and gained altitude to get well above them. When we landed, we all introduced ourselves and I said it would have been easier if they had ADS-B - the pilot who had been freaking out looked up from his phone (where he was posting pictures / video and information about his flight to Insta and Facebook) and said with a straight face that he didn't want to be tracked, didn't want people to know where he was flying to...
I don't want everyone to know my personal business either and there is no need for it in ADSB. If the public can know when you are away from home and where you are that is a scary thought!
@@paul8498 I guess you missed the irony that the other pilot was broadcasting where he was to everyone anyway? Beyond that - the ADSB transmitter can be set that it only broadcasts aircraft type, speed, and altitude. You don't have to give up any personal information at all. Maybe learn what it is and how it works before condemning it?
I have ADSB-OUT and IN integrated into my panels, and I love it. However, there is a danger when flying into a busy area that you can become slave to it or even become overwhelmed by it and all the information its throwing at you. It's just one of the tools that can help keep you safe (and I think it does), but I worry a little about people that seem to rely solely on it
There's no doubt that it feeds into complacency to some degree. All of the close calls I've had spraying near busy areas have been with non-ADSB equipped aircraft, because it's easy to let it do the looking for you and announce your presence to others while you're busy working a technically challenging field. The real question is how many of those close calls would've been avoided if I relied on diligent visual scanning, and how many of those aircraft my ADSB helped me avoid that I wouldn't have seen with visual scans alone...
I had an issue early on where I was flying into a really busy uncontrolled airfield. There was a lot of traffic in the circuit (pattern), some remaining others joining and departing in all sort of weird ways. My ADSB went nuts and I was starting to panic because it looked like 1000 aircraft all about to hit me. That was where I saw that you could over rely on it, instead of keeping your eyes out the window and your head on a swivel. Regarding it tracking me - a lot of NZ is pretty hostile tiger country and I’m happy that if I have to ditch somewhere the rescue services have a good starting point on where to find me
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
I think it depends on what purpose you’re using it for. For me going into controlled airspace ATC obviously need my tail number. I also like seeing it on my panels as I know a lot of the planes so seeing it tells me exactly what aircraft type they are. Finally, for search and rescue and flight following it needs to broadcast the tail number. I get why other people may not want that, so take this as my personal way of using it
@@derkiwi151 So if you contact ATC they give you a SQUAK number but for ADS-B. Now they know who you are and they know your tail number because you told them. Or you could even have two modes on ADS-B, anonymous or tail number. When you entire class B or C you could switch to tail number. I'm just arguing this would be a good way to get more people to adopt it. There are many out there that won't because of the loss of anominimy.
I was talking to a pilot a while ago, and they said that a friend of their’s once got reported to the CAA (British FAA) because some people on the ground saw his altitude in Flightradar24 as too low. They weren’t actually flying too low, and didn’t get in any trouble in the end, but still not a great experience. But I agree with you ADSB is a great thing, plus I get to look back at my flights afterwards 😊
CAA over here operates quite differently to the FAA. Put it this way, people who complain about the FAA have never dealt with the CAA :) They're absolutely abysmal and awful.
Man, I was one of the ones complaining about having to retrofit my airplane with ADSB out. After several years with it (in/out) I think it is the best technology out since GPS. I am surprised at how many airplanes I fly near (1/2-1 mile) that I can never spot visually in the daylight. Now I usually see approaching traffic on my screen even before ATC warns me. At uncontrolled airports, traffic pattern airplane tail numbers are on my screen and I can communicate with them on the radio using their info. I realize that not all aircraft have ADSB out and I still need to be on the look-out but it has made me realize how inadequate that method is. I like having both methods to fly safer. I'm not a hotdog pilot so I'm not worried that everyone can see how I fly. IFR I follow rules...when it makes sense.
I agree ADS-B is a lifesaving tool, but you completely missed the point why so many people don't want to comply. Let's take your example of why you are in hot water with the FAA right now...assume the guy/girl who reported you didn't report you, but instead looked up your tail number and then googled that tail number. Instantly they have your name and address from the FAA website. Instead of reporting you they decide to meet you at your house and tell you how they really feel. Does that seem fair? It's not the most probable thing to happen, but It's a realistic possibility. Imagine being able to google license plate numbers and finding names and addresses. The public would be in an uproar! And rightfully so. If ADS-B is really all about just safety and avoiding mid-air collisions, why does it have to include tail numbers? We could get all the same alerts without all the private info being public. To be clear, I don't care if the FAA can see my tail number, but it shouldn't show up on flightaware or any other live website for the world to see. I do see the value in being able to search a specific tail number of a friend and track how far out they are, but that means me already having the information. The tail number shouldn't be broadcast for everyone.
G, day Trent from Sydney Australia. What a great video content, the great open sky and land. All the while maintaining an educational content of; * Trail wheel drag anchor in sand * Important ADSB-in technology to alert pilots of conflicting traffic. * Regulations made from past experience. * Altitude clearance from house, boats "and other stuff' 🌏🇭🇲
Hey Trent thank you so much for the video when you got with Josh and Flitetest crew. So it saw you where making Freedom Fox again. Mine arrived yesterday and really excited to fly your plane! Thanks Again Carl!
ADS-B has definitely helped me a couple times with traffic avoidance and weather avoidance when the weather changed quickly. However, some pilots rely on it too much. A pilot once told me he used ADS-B weather to navigate BETWEEN two thunderstorms AT NIGHT! So I just hope he's still alive.
ADSB seems like the way to go, but I would also comment that just because there isn't enough time for human eyes to check flight data, that doesn't mean machine algorithms can't be written to do so in the future to ensure compliance. It would only take a certain amount of time or effort to be directed towards it. That being said, I think the beneficial safety factors are really what are more important to focus on. Great video Trent.
Please remember before you get too dependent on ADSB that there's still aircraft with no electrical systems that aren't equipped. I am already aware if you're VFR it's see and avoid but I'm just putting that out there. The Champ and Cub I fly don't have ADSB
But you can have ADSB in/out with a sentry that has 12-18 hours of battery weighs 1lbs if you have the carrying case in the plane with you or just 7oz with just the suction cup mount and unit in the plane. So you don’t need an electrical system to run it. So having an old plane isn’t really an excuse when the unit weighs less than you putting on a sweat shirt on a cool day
Problem will be when someone builds a computer program to constantly scan for violations. Still, you shouldn't be breaking the rules, but the FAA saying they don't have the time to keep an eye on each person won't always be the case. They will send a ticket in the mail like running a stop light. Love your channel!!
@@Kitfoxj I won’t argue that! I wonder if they would program the GPS to be less accurate, like within 100-200ft, then others could still see there is a plane in the area, but not so accurate that they can use the data as proof someone made a slight violation. I fly powered paragliders and would just like to know another plane is around and of course be seen.
On the point of incrimination with flight data. People have been charged with crimes because they were incidentally close to an area where a specific crime happened, and because their phone happened to be on near that location, whether or not they had anything to do with the crime, they became the sole suspect. To be clear, I'm not saying for people to not use ADSB, just clarifying why this one concern could be valid.
ADSB has benefits and I like the idea of it but there are cons. (ignoring satellite vs ground station abilities) -You were talking about the government watching "you". In regards to that I would be more worried they would use it in laziness and just stick a crime on you and let the courts sort it out. -I would be worried about armchair police trying to feel important and reporting anything in the grey area. -Imagine if you have someone who dislikes you. Plenty of internet stories show casing manipulative neighbors repeatedly calling enforcement. In the best case scenario, you end up with lost time, being stressed and sometimes enforcement strongly suggesting you to change something for the purpose of reducing to reduce further calls. Even if you did nothing wrong and the suggestion doesn't make sense (ie, maybe land on your personal runway the other way even if its with 100knot winds). -As you are a youtuber and parks the plane at home on occasion I would be worried about strangers using your videos as a shopping list and your adsb to find your address. (I think if you have adsb, you are required to use it but I might be thinking of something else) -And that is ignoring the dangerous crazy's out there (There is a reason celebrities have bodyguards). RE: FAA not monitoring adsb. That is easy enough with AI and if the FAA isn't using it yet, they will. They will also have the history to check.
I fly in The Netherlands which has complicated airspaces and many restrictions. This forces a lot of VFR traffic to follow narrow routes. The result is that your ADS-B is yelling at you all the time, so you lose the benefits. Especially when you feed your ADS-B in to a nice screen, you will be looking at that screen a lot more than you should. When flying VFR in busy airspaces, use the best tools at your disposal: The windows!
I haven't checked your tail number, but I know super important Mr Patey has his blocked from tracking on all the usual sites. Is he worried about incriminating himself, or is it just he'd rather not have some weirdo tracking his every move? Until I can be assured every Tom Dick and Harry doesn't have free and open access to my track, I'm out. It's bad enough they can get my home address by searching my markings...
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
I just saw on a youtube sailing channel which for boats equivalent is AIS they got a ticket for coming within 100 miles of a protected island, which they learned of when they got to port.
Just finished up my private and after being in several ADS-B equipped aircraft in a busy airport with no tower (up to 9 in the pattern with about 6 more in other areas within 7 miles, all inbound) ADS-B has definitely prevented some close calls, and added some very needed awareness. We had a situation recently where a L-39 was inbound but wasn't making radio calls inbound until he called out a final approach 3 miles out coming in fast with a SR20 already on final. The L-39 ADS-B altitude reported about a 100 foot difference between the SR20 directly below the L-39 before performing a go around... and then a left hand circle directly into the path of the downwind traffic... bad situation for a busy flight school when a hot shot like that rolls in. Never had a problem with the F-16 trainers from Vegas coming in.
The FAA didn’t develop ADS-B for pilot to pilot midair prevention. The primary goal was to use WAAS GPS to provide better position accuracy (vs. radar) to allow for reduced separation requirements, and therefore increased airspace efficiency for commercial operations. The ADS-B “in” features (traffic and weather) were offered as an incentive to entice the “little guys” to spend the $$$ and equip. I installed it in my Cessna in 2016.
We had a similar situation with ship-borne AIS (Automatic Identification System) that was introduced in 2002 and mandated for all vessels over 300gt. A lot of the arguments you brought up were made at the time but the reality was it made life much easier in busy areas. A cheaper system was brought in some years later enabling yachts and pleasure craft to fit them at a reasonable cost. I don't think anyone working at sea these days would want to be without one.
I love ADSB. I firmly believe it saved me already from a near miss / potential mid air a couple years ago. I intend to talk about it once my Sundowner is back in the air. Getting it repainted has taken WAY longer than I thought it would.
I just don't understand, if safety was the goal of ADS-B then why can't it be anonymous? You don't need to know the tail number of a craft to avoid it, only its location. If the FAA changed ADS-B to be anonymous, I believe the uptake would be better. I do agree, it improves safety, but it could easily be implemented without allowing the government and the entire world to ride along with every singe aircraft.
Thanks for the info. We have a somewhat similar system for maritime use. It’s called AIS or Automatic Identification System. Identifies the vessel size/type speed course and CPA, Closest Point of Approach. It is invaluable. And like ADSB, the more that use it, the better it works. And good luck with your legal issue. I think that you do a very conscientious job of aviation safety.
I am an advocate for adsb, however i have seen on many occasions where pilots stop using their #1 instrument, the windscreen. There is no substitute for visual scanning and adsb is another wonderful tool to help us pilots as long as you don’t solely rely on it and become lazy.
Exactly. ADS-B is a tool designed to help us find traffic. It's helpful to be able to see roughly "okay, this guy is at my 2 o'clock, high", look, and make visual contact with him. That's been my strategy in ADS-B planes. Helps a ton. But I never rely on just the ADS-B.
Good luck getting all the owners of Piper Cubs and clones set up with ADS-B out, let alone ADS-B in. ADSB Out is cheap... getting ADS-B in and most likely with a glass panel, be it a Garmin G3 or a Dynon Skyview of some sort, and a good Transponder, is an expensive retrofit proposition, even assuming you can do all the install and wiring on an Experimental Plane yourself. I learned to fly under the 30 mile radius of Class B KLAX, with class C KBUR and KVNY, while based out of KWHP. ADS-B in and out was priceless in keeping me aware of the airspace around me. Miss my RV-12, a lot. Great little plane, plenty quick E-LSA.
I had a near-miss before the ADSB era near Schiphol Airport (EHAM), within a year after getting my private. Ever since that event I have been turning to technological aids (initially XRX, later I put both ADBS-IN/OUT as well as Flare in my plane (similar system to ADSB, used mainly by gliders). An important realisation though is that the you cannot rely 100% on those systems as long as there are planes flying around without such systems. So keep your head on a swivel at all times, even if you have those tech goodies up and running!
Had a similar near miss years ago with my Dad. We were flying out of Scotts Bluff and maybe 5 minutes after take off a biplane crop duster descended right in front of us about 20 feet away. Good thing he was faster or he would have plowed right into us.
I'm a student and only 10 hours into training and ADS-B has already saved me from a very shady situation with a Caravan turning downwind to base very early and cutting me off on final. They didn't see us, or seem to hear our radio calls & ADS-B + Foreflight warned us to the situation & we were able to make some frantic radio calls to alert the other pilot. So yeah ... im new to flying and already would never fly without ADS-B out and in.
Great video Trent- and yes mid air collisions are my worst fear, especially after a very near miss involving an aircraft overtaking me from behind many years ago. There is no possible way that I could have seen him. It was so close, that his engine was damn loud.
Thank you Trent. ADSB shows how the see part of see and avoid is actually a lot harder than anyone thought. Another instructor here. I've seen many airplanes on my ipad that I couldn't find outside, even when I know where they are! I have near perfect vision! Several times I've had to dodge other airplanes that got close from behind where I had no chance to see them any other way. It's not perfect, midairs still happen, but ADSB really helps a lot. Someone should invent a handheld ADSB out for those antiques, gliders, and motorgliders that are not required to have it. Also, ADSB data is also super useful for analyzing accidents - which we all learn from.
@@JohnPlocher Those are devices that receive ADSB data - I have one. I am talking about a totally different device that transmits ADSB to ground stations - a portable transponder - so that an aircraft without an electrical system can be a part of the ADSB system and be seen by everyone else to not have midairs. Also this could be a more inexpensive option for aircraft that have electrical but are not required to have ADSB out.
Agree with you Trent, but I have one pile-on point. I fly military aircraft that are ADS-B Exempt and have noticed in the past 2 years, a large dependence ADS-B among VFR traffic in congested airspace. Just because you have ADS-B in displaying on your tablet, that does NOT relieve you of the responsibility to look out the window and clear visually. You never know who else may be (legally) operating nearby without a transponder, and you can't forget about technological failures or ADS-B malfunctions. VFR still means you're flying VISUALLY, and aware that not everything in the sky shows up on the "fish finder." (thanks for the soap-box).
I learned to fly out of KEMT c 2013 in Los Angeles, which is busy airspace. At about 100 hours PIC, my plane was fitted with ADS-B and I realized that despite care, attention, and excellent eyesight I was only spotting about 1/6 of other planes within a few miles of me. Of course, there's a lot of sky up there, which helps. I did take a break from flying around 250 hours after a near-mid air collision on short final at my home airport. Like most NMACs and MACs, it happened near an airport (more planes) and in this case, a towered airport where the other aircraft (a helicopter doing flight training) requested a NE departure and flew NW straight across the numbers, close enough for me to see the whites of their eyes. I had a feeling that the tower and other pilot were going to fuck up and was super paranoid, to which I attribute my survival. Later the local FSDO basically covered it up, which wasn't much fun. My CFI always taught me to assume there was an unseen aircraft on short final, to hold short facing downwind, to never ever trust the tower without checking twice. The system works if everyone checks everyone else, but in this case they did the opposite, and then undermined the error-correcting process.
I’ve had 5-6 close calls avoided in the busy space between Portland and Seattle. My first cross country after a 16 year hiatus, we took off from Spanish Fork and didn’t notice Provo airspace as I fixated on the VOR ring…. Salt Lake Approach called us on the CTAF using my tail number from the ADSB and guided us out of danger.
I'm located in Boulder, CO and the amount of mid air collisions here in the last two years has been eye opening. My opinion is that every aircraft should have a receiver and not just transmitter equipped. It blows my mind that there's a lack of receivers in aircraft in this area given how extremely congested the airspace is. Maybe there's a way to reduce the receiver installation cost through policy, or some innovation.
Mine does, and I bought it from a gentleman in Boulder. I was there Saturday picking up some parts from him as well. Can't believe people in that airspace wouldn't have it.
Trent. You should have mentioned the fact we can fly under "anonymous" mode, which doesn't mean we are invisible. We just become a target and play well with the system. All completely legal. Basically this is done through the "UAT" option where the aircraft owner installs a 978Mhz UAT out solution in concert with a Mode C transponder. It works great and whenever the aircraft is squawking VFR the ICAO code is randomized internal to the unit. So nobody, not even the gubmit', can see your registration and ownership records. But that's okay because that is not the point of ADS-B (whether 978 or 1090es). The point of "out" is to make sure the traffic around you can see you and be alerted to that. Under anonymous mode you are still visible. So with UAT out it's you are like any other car on the freeway where folks see and avoid each other, With 1090es solutions (or in fact any Mode S) you are that same car but now with your name and address scribed across the back window for all the world to see. Hello stalker. Hello competitor. So I would suggest both you and your backcountry brethren use UAT "out" unit combined with Mode C rather than one of the more expensive 1090es solutions. And don't conflate "in" with out. The all-in-one 1090es transponders with both in and out just cost extra money. A lot more money. So what is an example of a UAT "out" with Mode C? How about a Garmin GTX 327 ($325 with tray) combined with a GDL 82 ($1,800) with the anonymous pin of the GDL providing a switch on the panel to enable anonymous mode. Then for "in" get a GDL 5x(r) ($700 to $1200 with SXM) or Stratus or whatever floats your boat. In fact in your case the GDL 52 would work awesome and provide everything you need right on the G3X. Let's face it . It is the "in" FIS-B and TIS-B technology that is always being improved and updated. So why not have a cheaper in stand-along that can be swapped out to the latest and greatest over time and leave the transponder alone. All the while having the option to switch over to anonymous mode to keep complaints at bay. Shoot, Florida will send your an excise tax bill just for overlying their airspace if you are broadcasting your N-Number. You can fight it but who needs all that?
Seems like it is extra cost just to keep the stalkers away. The system should be safe from that and anonymised as standard as there is no benefit to safety from having all the personal date available to whoever wants to stalk you.
I’ve had a couple of cases where I came too close to another plane and as a student these had immediate impacts on my confidence, in both cases archived ADSB data and LiveATC allowed me to examine the situation with my instructor and determine that I didn’t do anything wrong and took appropriate action.
It’s been great for me as a tool for learning.
You know you're getting big on TH-cam when Scott Manley himself comments on one of your videos!
I avoided mid-air collision twice, in fact ads-b was The reason why I'm speaking to you all right now.
Yo! Same! Had some moron RV pilot (I hate RV pilots) who dove 20 degrees right at me while I was doing commercial manuevers and he wasn't on radio.
Flight instructor here and same. Gotta love those busy non-towered airports packed with student pilots
Just remember to look outside too… you won’t see me antique airplane on your screen.
@@prodigalpilot just remember to make good calls. I have to divide my attention to other traffic and my student too. I live and fly out of a private airport with a 38’ wide runway… I deal with antiques like you all the time. Get a handheld and make good calls so I can find you. You have my word my heads on a swivel as much as it can be.
@@childofthemagenta1956 certainly, and I do. Just see too many people staring at the iPad.
I did all my flight training without ADSB (prior to the mandatory need) I then years later rode in the same area in an ADSB-in equipped plane. It was eye opening. The amount of stuff I was missing was crazy.
Same. ADSB and EFBs have saved a ton of lives. Mine included.
The ol' fish finder is a game changer.
@@daveminnigerode8274 My question why can't we track location to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
@@crissd8283 Yes, it's technically possible, for example with public key cryptography, but probably not on the minds of the people who wrote the regulations. And it would add complexity, etc.
@@LoanwordEggcorn No it isn't. You don't need some fancy encryption. It could be just like a SQUAK code. Everyone has the same ID number, unless ATC gives you a different code at which point you entire it into your ADS-B out. This is super simple. It's not like you need an ID so the ADS-B system can send information specifically back to you. Your system monitors the location of other aircraft and gives you warnings independent of any other systems so ADS-B warning in your aircraft don't come from a central command but your own system.
I love that the guy with an airplane on a road is surprised to see a car, but the cars who saw the airplane on the road just cruise on by like it’s a normal thing 😂
Tracking devices on vehicles might help with recoveries, it could list the type of tires used so you could determine which fork in the road to take based on tire tread design.😉
Greetings, Casey!
Casey, it's awesome that you're over here watching Trent's channel. Your's and his are my two favorites!
Imagine driving on a back road in the middle of nowhere and seeing the Freedom Fox sitting next to the road. 😃
With a guy next to the road who's surprised there would be CARS on the road!
I drive on those trails all the time with my side by side. Sometimes I see him flying but not landed
@@ljfinger Yeah, what's up with that? I'm good with Trent but come on, if you land ON A ROAD please plan on getting your aircraft off the road-
I would actually expect that in Utah.
@@timothybarker9525 those aren't roads perse, more like trails for off road activities. One that he landed on I think is a trail that goes to a local rock crawling spot. Usually there aren't a ton of people out there unless it's a holiday weekend.
I'm a Flight Observer in the USAF Aux: Civil Air Patrol. As an organization we get tasked all the time to conduct aerial searches for potentially downed aircraft. ADS-B is a tool we use regularly to help narrow down search area parameters when planning search and rescue missions. Because the system talks to other aircraft, ground stations and satellites, it's still transmitting your location after ATC looses you from radar. So if your plane goes down it helps reduce the time it can take to find your location and guide in ground teams to we hope to find survivors or at least locate remains so that families might get some closure. It's not perfect but any tool we can use to hopefully find survivors in a timely manner is better.
What squadron?
Im training to be a sUASMP rn
Why can't track location to prevent midair while keeping the plane anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
@@crissd8283 thats like hiding your license plate unless the cops want to see it. You drive all over the country and anyone with an account can see your license plate and registration.
@@whs2220 Is ADS-B intended for law enforcement?? No they sold it as safety. The N number on an aircraft is always visible just like a license plate. The equivalent in a car to ADS-B would be a GPS tracker which would require a court order to require a person to have a GPS tracker on their car. If the government decided to require a tracker on every car, people would be up in arms and an the ACLU would get it shot down.
I think an anonymized system would be a good idea. Instead of broadcasting tail numbers private pilots could have random IDs assigned (and re-assigned on a regular basis if desired) to preserve some privacy. I do think commercial flights should be fully identified though.
I definitely agree
Probably though, ATC will still communicate by tail number and in some computer that random number would be tied to the tail number
@@0akgrove Sure, the FAA will still know, but all the private ADS-B trackers won't. For example Elon Musk's private jet won't have a twitter account anymore.
@@TrentonPalmer There is an anonymous system associated with ADS-B called the Privacy ICAO Address (PIA) program. You have to get a third-party callsign from a vendor (ForeFlight and FltPlan are two) -- which obviously isn't free -- then you can get a new hex code to program into your ADS-B Out box that isn't associated with your tail number. Basically, it's possible to be anonymous to the public, but the FAA has made it a costly hassle.
That would suck man, I love looking up all the planes flying over and seeing what type they are.
"There was a car, which is weird I wouldnt expect a car out here" - Trent Landing a plane on a road lol
Haha, but it honestly was in the middle of nowhere!
@@TrentonPalmer They were following your ADS-B track to find you 😉
@@TrentonPalmer Were you guys over 89 south of Sierraville last Friday?
😂😂😂
yeah.. so weird to have a car... on a road, where you can see tire tracks and everything
It's really nice to see someone as influential in this community as yourself advocating this life saving technology Trent, keep it up.
So is there a way to track location to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
In awe of your flying and videos Trent. Also in agreement about the safety value in ADSB in/out in addition to flight following. The number of times I've been alerted to traffic and STILL been unable to get them in sight tells me that "see and avoid" isn't as easy as we think.
My question is why can't we track locations to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy. Similar to squaking 1200. It tells radar where you are but they don't know tail number.
@@crissd8283 Why are you so concerned about your privacy? Flying is a privilege, not a right. That privilege can be removed by the FAA. More important is the safety in airspace of everyone around you that uses it, than just you and your right to privacy. I'm just having a hard time with your individualism coming across as being selfish and not caring about everyone else in the sky. The whole system was built for the purpose of transparency. You come across as having something to hide.
We have the right to privacy. The argument that if you aren't doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear disregards the entire point of privacy. Also, it may be that the FAA doesn't have time to watch you but if they have someone they want to catch they can go through all the records and find them.
I really wonder if there is a way to track location to prevent midair while keeping you anonymous? Why couldn't that exist? It would be crazy easy to implement so why does ADS-B require you to send out your tail number? Anonymous reports of location would have the same effect on mid-air collisions while being less likely to violate your privacy.
Thanks Trent! As a pilot and a drone operator with drones equipped with ADSB receivers, I really like knowing when aircraft are near me, especially helicopters that tend to fly low and fast in the areas I work in.
Love the idea of having ADS-B receivers on drones, they should have mandated that instead of the idiotic implementation of Remote ID we got instead.
@@VikingMultimediaYT This! And of course it is a critically important safety feature to know where on the ground the UAV pilot is standing.
I'm curious what your using for ADSB on your drones. I'd like to check out more on this and what information it can provide aside from the fact that aircraft are close by. I fly close to myself and usually will do some maneuvers followed by dropping altitude to make sure we are all safe. The last thing I want to be responsible for bringing down GA aircraft.
@@justplanefred I use DJI drones, of which most now have a feature called AirSense, an ADSB receiver of sorts which alerts me to the presence of aircraft nearby which are using their ADSB. I can turn it on or off, but except for certain situations, it stays on all the time.
@@justplanefred There is also a set of Android apps that can use a SDR dongle to receive/interpret local 1090 broadcasts.
I am a firm believer in ADSB. I left the USAF 15 years ago and ADSB conceptually was supposed to be used for ground collision avoidance at major airports. Now, having completed my PPL and used both ADSB OUT and IN via foreflight, I would never fly without. While you can clear visually and radio wise, you won’t be able to see those not talking. Bar none it’s the best positional awareness and collision avoidance in GA aircraft. It works and the entire community is better for it.
Totally agree, and one of the best benefits is ADSB-in (FIS-B) weather. Yes, it's not absolute real-time - it can be delayed, but still - it's free in-flight digital weather! Coming from a guy who learned to fly in the '80's, when all we has was FSS, ADSB-in weather is an absolute game-changer! Huge safety boon for general aviation.
Another very good video. Thanks Trent. I agree whole heartedly that the pros way outweigh the cons. There are a couple of issues that I don't see mentioned very often though:
1. ADS-B is the billing mechanism used by countries that charge airspace user fees. For each flight in certain airspace you will get a bill in the mail for navigation charges and those bills are generated automatically from ADS-B data
2. The FAA may not have time to sit around and monitor ADS-B data, but their computers certainly do. Automatic notice of violations are common in Europe.
There are those who say that user fees and automatic notices of violation will never come to the USA, while others think it is inevitable.
That was the first thing that I thought about regarding ADS-B. Our surveillance world is a sad reality where misuse of the information is rampant.
I agree, we could have a good safety data without the big brother and general public stalking.
@@paul8498 Exactly. If safety is the goal then why isn't ADS-B anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is. Making it anonymous would certainly increase uptake of the technology for those that don't want big brother riding along on every flight.
I am a Pilot in training and man watching your videos have helped me learn so many new details you might not find in a book. Thank you Trent!🙏
That's cool you had the opportunity to take the Blue Angels into the backcountry state of mind.
You do a great job promoting safety and balanced flying. I don't recommend a lot of TH-cams to my kids who are learning to fly but I never worried about your message. Keep it up.
Hello "Trench" Palmer. Prior to ADSB I had at least three near mid-airs. Only one in power but that one was not the scariest. I'm not sure the other pilot ever saw me but I pushed hard to go under him. And my passengers were a mother and her two kids. I guess I was a good actor because they never got rattled. At least not as much as I was.
But as a glider pilot you almost expect to be WAY too close to other aircraft. You often thermal (circle) with other gliders and can be uncomfortably close. I once actually overlapped wings with another glider. I had such an adrenaline rush that my body went ice cold afterwords. The other pilot and I discussed it afterwords and he was so nonchalant that I made a note to myself to never fly anywhere near him again. Admittedly he was probably just being defensive about his (more or less) causing the overlap.
Try using ADSB on an aerobatic airplane while performing aerobatics. Doesn't work well at all.
@@pittss2c601 no kiddin. i bet.
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are, without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
A few years ago, simple S mode transponder basically saved my life. I was going VFR, south to north of Paris (France), and flight following was crazy with activity. But on my path was the D class airspace of Pontoise TMA (now Le Bourget TMA). So 3 minutes before the border, I left flight following and switched to Pontoise APP. That went that way:
- Pontoise Approach, F-GDDD, good afternoon.
- F-DD Pontoise, traffic information, unknown aircraft, no radio contact, less than a mile, 11 o'clock left to right 200 ft below and climbing.
The controller was speaking VERY fast, with a real tone of relief that she finally heard from one of us.
So I straightened into my seat, pulled my head as forward as possible, put my aircraft in a slip to look directly forward, and sure enough, there he was, a high-wing ultralight, following the outside of the D class limit, about 300 m in front of me. When I was flying straight, he was hidden by my engine, and I was hidden by his wing the whole time.
With an older C mode transponder, by the time the approach controller and I could talk back and forth to have her identify me, the ultralight and myself would have been stacked in the same spot. Only the fact that the controller had my registration on her screen allowed her to know immediately exactly who just called and what to tell me.
So I'm with you on ADS-B. We need to know where aircraft are, and we need to have registrations or callsigns along with the dots so we can call out or be called out.
And anyone who has a privacy issue with that, I'd wonder what they do that's so mysterious that they can't allow anyone to know even for safety's sake. (And anyway, people for whom stealth is that important can still turn their transponders off.)
I've been installing ADS-B on military aircraft for the last couple of years now. Those systems have the ability to turn off the ads-b (for tracking purposes) but they are on by default. ADS-B brings a lot of safety to the table and it really should be on all aircraft.
I have ADS-B in and out. It works great but there is a lot of military traffic in California that do not have ADS-B out. I still have to look outside. DO NOT really on ADS-b showing everything. I look forward to the military making flight safer.
Military aircraft would have to be able to turn off ADS-B since it provides a firing solution for dumb munitions. 😂
Being a student at a flight college in Florida with the densest air traffic in the country (the majority made of inexperienced student pilots) you learn to love ADS-B real quick.
"all the regulations are there for good reason" and yet you are currently getting screwed over by the FAA as they pick and choose which data to use against you in their investigation. I can empathize with the skeptical people.
I still like ADSB for traffic deconfliction and weather. It's great stuff!
They used to be there for good reason. Now they have other agendas
Our area had no ADS-B receivers, so as a amateur radio operator I installed the FlightAware raspberry pi receiver for both 978 and 1090 ADS-B. Now our flights/planes show up on the maps. In training it's nice to review your flight online. When flying with ADS-B IN your plane is it's own receiver and it's great for all the points you mentioned Trent.
ADS-B is the elephant in the room, but where we can take advantage of it is the “hockey puck” where we see each other is what saved you on your close call. The other pilot was obviously not using his available information.
some planes with simpler avionics don't even have the ability to display traffic. There are a lot of planes with add-on ADS-B out transponders that are self-contained with a GPS and hidden in the panel or added as a modified tail-light fixture.
Flying in the busy So Cal airspace ADSB is a godsend. It has given me an awareness I never had and has saved several near hits. I encourage everyone to get it.
My wife and I almost died in a midair collision a number of years ago. Climbing at 65 knots in a C152, a Mooney passed directly by us from the rear. I'd estimate his speed was 160 knots plus, and probably about 50 feet away. The scary part was that, regardless if I had the right of way, we'd all still be dead and my son would be orphaned. That created a deep fear of midair collisions for me. ADSB has huge potential for preventing such accidents.
Yep. And both of you could have been doing “see and avoid” how many times do you see ads-b traffic and never be able to see the plane
@@sledawgpilot Well you can't see someone closing on you at a hundred knots from above and behind you while climbing in a high wing. ADS-B sees conflicts all the time you'd never catch with the naked eye. It's great!
@@keithrickson8522 Those kinds of close calls stick with you, don't they? One thing to keep in mind, ADSB doesn't flawlessly report your position, and the equipment isn't always accurate. They do fail on occasion too (mine stops working every now and then for no reason, and the avionics shop hasn't been able to diagnose it). I've had people nearly fly into me and both of us had ADSB working. It's also really easy to find yourself relying too much on ADSB and not enough on visual observation....not everyone has ADSB, not all ADSB is reporting or accurate, and not everyone is paying attention, so it's still just as important to keep your eyes out of the cockpit as it was before ADSB existed.
I just don't get why ADS-B can't be anonymous? Just like squak code 1200. It tells ATC your location so they can direct traffic around you but it doesn't tell them who you are. ADS-B could easily track location for collision avoidance while being anonymous.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper For sure! Eyes outside of the cockpit as much as possible. See and avoid should ALWAYS be the primary tactic to avoid collision avoidance. But, reliable or not, it could possibly help things, when it's working correctly.
In southern Germany we have thousands and thousands of gliders, all equiped with FLARM. On the weekend the sky is full of oven cloth and balsa broadcasting that. As a consequence my C172 has ADSB and FLARM installed as most aircraft here in the area do. That gives us good situation awareness and avoided collisions for me. More than once.
Apprecaite this video, I'm pretty sure ADS/B just saved my ass today. I was climbing out of my home airport on my way to 7,500ft when I noticed traffic 900 ft above and almost directly behind me gaining on my pretty quickly on my same heading. I leveled off my climb and saw that he was descending. I made an S-Turn to the left to separate our tracks and saw his cirrus pass by me at almost level altitude. Had it not been for the ADS/B-In data, I'd not have known he was there. We were on different frequencies (I was still on my departure airport, I'm sure he was on the airport he was descending into). This is why it frustrates me that there are still people out there who outright refuse to install even just a simple UAvionix kit. They'll spend all sorts of money on other things on their plane, but they complain about the costs of the ADB/B simply because its mandated by the FAA.
These same guys will blow $2000 on an AR-15, $90K on a new lifted 4wd truck
Normally, I'm a huge advocate for personal privacy, especially from the government. But in this case, ADSB provides important information about other traffic that may be in close proximity, as well as important, up-to-date weather information. It's also pretty cool that my family can watch me as I fly. So, in this case, I fully support the requirement for aircraft to be equipped with ADSB-out, and would strongly advise pilots to pick up an ADSB-in receiver to take advantage of all of that information.
The Ugly: There are multiple local and federal government entities using ADSB for purposes of revenue collection. The FAA addressed this practice specifically on a document located in the intestinal fortitude of their website. I challenge everyone to find it. "not to be used for purposes of revenue collection." A local tax office was caught using ADSB for finding aircraft within the county to verify status for purposes of tax collection. The FAA is not concerned about the safety of others contrary to what is published. If that were the case their actions would show it. There was no additional infrastructure put in place 35 years ago to improve safety other than education of the aircraft pilot. If a government puts a system in place then its not usually looking for the best interests of is citizenry based on past history its rather to improve the posture of said government. Its sold as an improvement on safety so to be pushed through and accepted. This current generation has been programmed that if the "safety" word is used then best not argue...ADSB receive is very useful. It could have been implemented without GPS capability with improvements to current infrastructure at a fraction of the cost. Think about the GPS in every mobile phone. People are being tracked on mobile phones for the government and local agencies using nothing but the GPS signal and a unique id number.
If all it was, was tcas, traffic collision avoidance system, like all the big birds and military have, basically on board radar, I don't think many people would complain.
Adsb isn't that. Its screaming your id everywhere you go, not just your presence.
All that should be needed is the transponder you already need, and a means to ping others to see where they are when they're nearby.
I have a strong libertarian streak, but I’m with you on ADSB. I will not fly without it. It allows me to be proactive in avoiding collisions rather than just reactive. Besides, it allows family to follow along at home if they desire. :)
Same here, but my own libertarian streak tells me I just need to know that someone is there, not their tail number, etc.
"Besides, it allows family to follow along at home if they desire. :):"
Provided you are flying near enough to a ground station that copies ADSB-IN data to the network.
Trent, the requirement came out in “2010” that all aircraft except “excepted” being military, vip, etc, be equipped. I used to do Search and Rescue for the FAA-following primary targets. I was given dept and dear by loved ones looking for their overdue aircraft. If you are hanging from a tree after an accident, ADS-B will find you much better than earlier options. Life saver!
Had two instances where I was grateful for ADSB in the pattern at a busy Phoenix area airport. Once in training with my CFI where we were told by tower to descend but saw ADSB traffic under us, and the other on my PPL check ride where I was told by tower to turn crosswind where a helicopter was transitioning. No mangled metal and passed the check ride, and will forever be a believer in ADSB!
Highest probability of collision occurs on or near turn to final, in an airport environment (controlled & uncontrolled), during DAY VFR (especially under CAVU conditions)!
It's counter intuitive, I know, because that's the time when your head is on a swivel & your ability to see stuff is the best. Yet, aircraft hit each other with increasing frequency, year over year. [insert facepalm emoji here...and headstone emoji]
@@TenorDad I couldn’t agree more!
@@TenorDad I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. If safety is the only goal, then it doesn't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
Thanks Trent for being such a great example of responsible airmanship. Your take on this subject is spot on when it comes to maintaining our freedom to fly low and slow.
Trent, you dismissed the law enforcement aspect of ADSB because you spoke to a friend in the FAA who said "we don't have the time to look at this stuff" I don't think the long term FAA goal is to have humans look at ADSB data. Data is permanent more or less. Government agencies tend to keep it a LONG time. How long does the FAA retain ADSB flight data? How long does flight aware retain this data? (Which is likely supena-able).. Keep in mind Flightaware may retain the data a LOT longer than they make it searchable on their website; It's quite possible that the FAA has long term plans to use AI and ML to search through the ADSB data to look for violations. What is the statute of limitations for FAA violations?
Pretend it's 2027 and the FAA just went live with their new AI/ML enforcement project. Can they prosecute pilots for breaking a rule 5, 10, 15 years ago? When they finally get around to analyzing the ADSB data for every flight? Even if they don't have the capability today. They may retain the option to "look back" at violations in years past when they eventually obtain technology to analyze ADSB data for violations in an automated fashion. Again, imagine it's 2027 and a pilot is charged with an FAA violation of some sort. Perhaps the government will have the ability to search the ADSB logs of every flight a pilot has ever made to look for potential violations made in years past prior to the current charge in order to force the pilot to settle the charge without fighting it. Very few people can afford to fight multiple accusations by a prosecutor with unlimited resources.Attourneys are just too expensive and they will be financially ruined even if they "win" against the government.
I like it because it gives me warnings about aircraft traffic closing on me when I’m flying the drone.
Once I was doing some pattern work at KTCY late at night to get my night currency up. The next day, I woke up to a twitter DM from someone that lived under my pattern asking about my flight. Apparently, the guy had looked me up on ADS-B. It went well, but it was weird.
I do love ADS-B for seeing other aircraft, but that definitely gave me a little pause.
Its definitely weird, lots of personal safety concerns here. Who wants to be stalked?
Love adsb. New pilot here. Was flying up the Jersey coast at 3500’ on a hot hazy day. Had a target at 3500’ coming down the shore almost head on. Was able to swing out a few miles and avoid long before the other aircraft was even in sight. Not a 100% solution ( then again what is) but if used with see and avoid is a great tool.
Great topic! I’ve had a couple of close calls, and adsb saved me for sure. I don’t fly without it!
hey ken you dont have to worry. your too cool of a guy . besides you have turtle spirits looking out for you😀
@@whisperingeagle Hi Dave! I also have a yoda that flys with me everywhere I go!
@@knussear hope all is well with your family ken. I dont get much contact now scince are fly ins fell apart but i think about people often.Some how the world changed and i didnt keep up with it. Say high to your folks for me . I was just lookin at the baloon fiesta. Pretty much trying to get into a stol kit fox rans 7, super stol. Lot of bucks may the force be with you
@@whisperingeagle Will do Dave - hope you and Sonya are well. I made the jump to gyro a couple of years ago. Love these STOL planes also.
@@knussear ya me too ken. I bought a challenger 11 restored it and put a stewart sys paint job on it. But with my diability its exstreamly hard for me to get in and out. A good bush plane would be perfect for sonya to fly with me. Trent has me drooling all the time! Iam also looking at the Norden
I used an ADS-B receiver for the Capstone system in Alaska for a few years before it was mandated in the lower 48. Commercial operators were required to equip, but not private. It was great to see traffic on my iPad as many of the air taxi drivers barely used their radios. Or when BET puts you in a holding pattern with 3 other planes during "shaky" visibility. It's a great tool, but not the be all and end all, we have to remember to scan outside and listen as well.
A very helpful discussion that should help promote the safety of flying. Thanks, Trent. Good to see you back in the air again.
I have had at least 3 near-miss incidents and consider ADS-B in as the most important safety equipment I have. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
7:16 - Just some fuel for thought on this point. While they don't monitor right now, it's entirely possible that there will be automated systems that will do this in the future. Such systems are widespread already in the corporate world for things like process management and ATC systems probably have some automated flight monitoring as well so the tech is already there, it is probably just a matter of time. It's also likely being recorded and stored for archive retrieval when future systems can process the data.
The point here I guess is people who aren't comfortable being tracked can sense where this may be heading and want to avoid it before it's too late, if that's even possible.
I understand your argument but I think I'd prefer to be in one piece rather than a smoking hole in the ground and I don't care that ADSB tracks could be stored ad infinitum. But I live in the UK, so things are a bit different here.
@@theflyingfool Try using ADSB on an aerobatic airplane while performing aerobatics. Doesn't work well at all.
Totally agree. I think we have all seen how far governments will go if they are able to. The thing here is that there is no need for the tracking or the personal privacy breaches to make a good safe system like ADSB work. So why is it so invasive?
@@pittss2c601 haha! It’s probably being sick electronically!
@@paul8498 it’s not inherently invasive, the system only works by broadcasting all the time. Trent was saying that the FAA doesn’t have the manpower to constantly monitor so why the paranoia?
I agree with you Trent Adan saves lives. Keep the good fight going for all of us back woods pilots.
Counter points (from a canuck no less).
The "nothing to hide" argument is a slippery slope - it might be not be FAR issues, but other privacy issues and a change in politics could result in a recorded track putting you offside with the authorities. Not sure what one can legally do, but again - free speech slippery slope.
The "no time to fish" argument is also naive. Computer tech is getting very sophisticated in filtering. Inspectors may not have time to fish, but the rack of servers in the data centre can - and one should assume are.
That said - ADSB is a general good.
And as a arm chair plane spotter with an ADSB feeder supplying uncensored data to ADSBExchange - check them out and join!
There should be an "anonymous mode" that can be selected outside of controlled airspace. I would equip then. It would still support the safety aspects you are harping on.
If the FAA doesn't currently have the time to look for violations in ADSB data, what prevents them from automating that search? I wish we could just set that fear to rest with a randomized identifier rather than registered call signs
Totally agree, but the nanny state and big brother wants to know everything you do!
Adsb is a brilliant technology. If it saves just 1 person its worth it. Rally cars uses a timing/emergency system that is loosely based on the same concept (excluding satellites). System uses GSM but also communicate digitally with other cars clocks and passes time when gsm connectivity is established again. In an emergency you push a button and passing cars are alerted to stop and assist. Has saved lives.
People don't have time to scan for violators.. but AI does.
Precisely! It wouldn't be hard to write a program to scour ADSB data like a traffic camera watches intersections. Just write the code to look for patterns and flag the flights.
I'm never concerned about the FAA keeping track of us... it's people on the ground who complain about engine noise or think we're "spying" on them, etc. who look at ADSB tracking, find tail numbers and create trouble. But yes, overall the safety advantages are worth it.
Only good thing about that is when they complain you are “buzzing their house” and the adsb track puts you at 4000’ agl, then it makes them look the fool that they are.
It doesn't have to be safety vs freedom. It could be both if the data was anonymised which in my view it should be. There is no need for the tracking.
During covid a popular drone pilot I watch had an FAA investigator get onto him for not having a part 107 license and even told him during covid they were sitting at home watching people on TH-cam for violations so yes I don’t buy they won’t be watching..
Trent, great video and insight as always! Agree with you totally and as we all know from recent events mid air collisions happen way to often! A BRS is a nice option that might give you another chance depending on the circumstances. The reason every Cirrus has one is because one of the founding brothers was in a mid air collision before the company was started. Many lives have been saved in mid airs with a chute. But the best solution is prevention and ADSB is a great tool for that! Best to all and fly safe!
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
I only flew a few years before adsb started and i can say hands down its better with it. I love the situational awareness it gives. I see planes on every flight that i probably would never have been able to spot without it. That said the regulation is still a real threat. If they did have the time and power to look at all the data. And they are getting there fast. Their will be more and more hassel like what you are getting. Consequence of Barney fifes in the world. We just need more Andys at the helm over the Barneys.
They can use an algorithm to do it
With the amount of people joining GA as a whole ADS-B in and out is kind of a must that way visual reference of where potential flying risks are at at all times to avoid Mid Air Collisions. I thought it was stupid when it was first announced but once I started my LSP training I discovered how beneficial it is to have especially in Phoenix air space.
ADS-B isn't mandated here in Canada (yet), I put in and out in C-FMVU and in the busy airspace I fly in (Toronto / Southern Ontario / Montreal / Quebec City) it does give me an extra layer of assurance that I can see some of the other traffic; but because it isn't yet mandated probably 75% of the GA planes around me don't have it.
Two weeks ago we did a flight, and from the departure airport (CYOO) I heard two departing aircraft that were going to the same destination that Julie and I were heading to. They didn't have ADS-B, I couldn't see them, they couldn't see me. But we knew from position reports that we were fairly close, and one of the other pilots started freaking out because he couldn't locate us in the sky... I peeled off, did a giant circle to let them get well ahead and gained altitude to get well above them. When we landed, we all introduced ourselves and I said it would have been easier if they had ADS-B - the pilot who had been freaking out looked up from his phone (where he was posting pictures / video and information about his flight to Insta and Facebook) and said with a straight face that he didn't want to be tracked, didn't want people to know where he was flying to...
I don't want everyone to know my personal business either and there is no need for it in ADSB. If the public can know when you are away from home and where you are that is a scary thought!
@@paul8498 I guess you missed the irony that the other pilot was broadcasting where he was to everyone anyway? Beyond that - the ADSB transmitter can be set that it only broadcasts aircraft type, speed, and altitude. You don't have to give up any personal information at all. Maybe learn what it is and how it works before condemning it?
Trent, thanks for taking the time to make the videos. I'm always picking up little things here and there. Keep them coming....
I have ADSB-OUT and IN integrated into my panels, and I love it. However, there is a danger when flying into a busy area that you can become slave to it or even become overwhelmed by it and all the information its throwing at you. It's just one of the tools that can help keep you safe (and I think it does), but I worry a little about people that seem to rely solely on it
There's no doubt that it feeds into complacency to some degree. All of the close calls I've had spraying near busy areas have been with non-ADSB equipped aircraft, because it's easy to let it do the looking for you and announce your presence to others while you're busy working a technically challenging field. The real question is how many of those close calls would've been avoided if I relied on diligent visual scanning, and how many of those aircraft my ADSB helped me avoid that I wouldn't have seen with visual scans alone...
I had an issue early on where I was flying into a really busy uncontrolled airfield. There was a lot of traffic in the circuit (pattern), some remaining others joining and departing in all sort of weird ways. My ADSB went nuts and I was starting to panic because it looked like 1000 aircraft all about to hit me. That was where I saw that you could over rely on it, instead of keeping your eyes out the window and your head on a swivel.
Regarding it tracking me - a lot of NZ is pretty hostile tiger country and I’m happy that if I have to ditch somewhere the rescue services have a good starting point on where to find me
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
I think it depends on what purpose you’re using it for. For me going into controlled airspace ATC obviously need my tail number. I also like seeing it on my panels as I know a lot of the planes so seeing it tells me exactly what aircraft type they are. Finally, for search and rescue and flight following it needs to broadcast the tail number. I get why other people may not want that, so take this as my personal way of using it
@@derkiwi151 So if you contact ATC they give you a SQUAK number but for ADS-B. Now they know who you are and they know your tail number because you told them. Or you could even have two modes on ADS-B, anonymous or tail number. When you entire class B or C you could switch to tail number. I'm just arguing this would be a good way to get more people to adopt it. There are many out there that won't because of the loss of anominimy.
ADSB has saved my life numerous times. Especially in such a ga heavy area I live in with a lot of cowboys
I was talking to a pilot a while ago, and they said that a friend of their’s once got reported to the CAA (British FAA) because some people on the ground saw his altitude in Flightradar24 as too low. They weren’t actually flying too low, and didn’t get in any trouble in the end, but still not a great experience. But I agree with you ADSB is a great thing, plus I get to look back at my flights afterwards 😊
CAA over here operates quite differently to the FAA. Put it this way, people who complain about the FAA have never dealt with the CAA :)
They're absolutely abysmal and awful.
If they have ADSB without the tracking then many more people would have it.
@@sheldonholy5047 true that lol
Man, I was one of the ones complaining about having to retrofit my airplane with ADSB out. After several years with it (in/out) I think it is the best technology out since GPS. I am surprised at how many airplanes I fly near (1/2-1 mile) that I can never spot visually in the daylight. Now I usually see approaching traffic on my screen even before ATC warns me. At uncontrolled airports, traffic pattern airplane tail numbers are on my screen and I can communicate with them on the radio using their info. I realize that not all aircraft have ADSB out and I still need to be on the look-out but it has made me realize how inadequate that method is. I like having both methods to fly safer. I'm not a hotdog pilot so I'm not worried that everyone can see how I fly. IFR I follow rules...when it makes sense.
I agree ADS-B is a lifesaving tool, but you completely missed the point why so many people don't want to comply. Let's take your example of why you are in hot water with the FAA right now...assume the guy/girl who reported you didn't report you, but instead looked up your tail number and then googled that tail number. Instantly they have your name and address from the FAA website. Instead of reporting you they decide to meet you at your house and tell you how they really feel. Does that seem fair? It's not the most probable thing to happen, but It's a realistic possibility.
Imagine being able to google license plate numbers and finding names and addresses. The public would be in an uproar! And rightfully so. If ADS-B is really all about just safety and avoiding mid-air collisions, why does it have to include tail numbers? We could get all the same alerts without all the private info being public.
To be clear, I don't care if the FAA can see my tail number, but it shouldn't show up on flightaware or any other live website for the world to see.
I do see the value in being able to search a specific tail number of a friend and track how far out they are, but that means me already having the information. The tail number shouldn't be broadcast for everyone.
G, day Trent from Sydney Australia.
What a great video content, the great open sky and land. All the while maintaining an educational content of;
* Trail wheel drag anchor in sand
* Important ADSB-in technology to alert pilots of conflicting traffic.
* Regulations made from past experience.
* Altitude clearance from house, boats "and other stuff'
🌏🇭🇲
Agreed ADS-B is useful. Problem is the tracking companies selling your very personal tracks to the Internet and storing these tracks indefinitely.
There are far worse things being stored by the app you posted this comment in.
Totally agree Richard it's scary how much your personal data is being watched and stored these days. ADSB shouldn't be on that list.
Hey Trent thank you so much for the video when you got with Josh and Flitetest crew. So it saw you where making Freedom Fox again. Mine arrived yesterday and really excited to fly your plane! Thanks Again Carl!
ADS-B has definitely helped me a couple times with traffic avoidance and weather avoidance when the weather changed quickly.
However, some pilots rely on it too much. A pilot once told me he used ADS-B weather to navigate BETWEEN two thunderstorms AT NIGHT! So I just hope he's still alive.
Oh god! Yeah, don’t rely on ADS-B weather, it’s at least 10min delayed and not always very accurate
whether
ADSB seems like the way to go, but I would also comment that just because there isn't enough time for human eyes to check flight data, that doesn't mean machine algorithms can't be written to do so in the future to ensure compliance. It would only take a certain amount of time or effort to be directed towards it.
That being said, I think the beneficial safety factors are really what are more important to focus on.
Great video Trent.
Please remember before you get too dependent on ADSB that there's still aircraft with no electrical systems that aren't equipped. I am already aware if you're VFR it's see and avoid but I'm just putting that out there. The Champ and Cub I fly don't have ADSB
But you can have ADSB in/out with a sentry that has 12-18 hours of battery weighs 1lbs if you have the carrying case in the plane with you or just 7oz with just the suction cup mount and unit in the plane. So you don’t need an electrical system to run it. So having an old plane isn’t really an excuse when the unit weighs less than you putting on a sweat shirt on a cool day
Re the river bed -- you SCARED me!
I'm glad you are wise and skilled.
Did your wife do campground hosting this last season? I live near there.
Problem will be when someone builds a computer program to constantly scan for violations. Still, you shouldn't be breaking the rules, but the FAA saying they don't have the time to keep an eye on each person won't always be the case. They will send a ticket in the mail like running a stop light. Love your channel!!
True point......But I'd rather deal with, and fight a ticket than have a midair.
This is only a matter of time. Or it is already occurring and we just haven't been told about it yet.
@@Kitfoxj I won’t argue that! I wonder if they would program the GPS to be less accurate, like within 100-200ft, then others could still see there is a plane in the area, but not so accurate that they can use the data as proof someone made a slight violation. I fly powered paragliders and would just like to know another plane is around and of course be seen.
On the point of incrimination with flight data. People have been charged with crimes because they were incidentally close to an area where a specific crime happened, and because their phone happened to be on near that location, whether or not they had anything to do with the crime, they became the sole suspect.
To be clear, I'm not saying for people to not use ADSB, just clarifying why this one concern could be valid.
ADSB has benefits and I like the idea of it but there are cons. (ignoring satellite vs ground station abilities)
-You were talking about the government watching "you". In regards to that I would be more worried they would use it in laziness and just stick a crime on you and let the courts sort it out.
-I would be worried about armchair police trying to feel important and reporting anything in the grey area.
-Imagine if you have someone who dislikes you. Plenty of internet stories show casing manipulative neighbors repeatedly calling enforcement. In the best case scenario, you end up with lost time, being stressed and sometimes enforcement strongly suggesting you to change something for the purpose of reducing to reduce further calls. Even if you did nothing wrong and the suggestion doesn't make sense (ie, maybe land on your personal runway the other way even if its with 100knot winds).
-As you are a youtuber and parks the plane at home on occasion I would be worried about strangers using your videos as a shopping list and your adsb to find your address. (I think if you have adsb, you are required to use it but I might be thinking of something else)
-And that is ignoring the dangerous crazy's out there (There is a reason celebrities have bodyguards).
RE: FAA not monitoring adsb. That is easy enough with AI and if the FAA isn't using it yet, they will. They will also have the history to check.
I fly in The Netherlands which has complicated airspaces and many restrictions. This forces a lot of VFR traffic to follow narrow routes. The result is that your ADS-B is yelling at you all the time, so you lose the benefits. Especially when you feed your ADS-B in to a nice screen, you will be looking at that screen a lot more than you should. When flying VFR in busy airspaces, use the best tools at your disposal: The windows!
I haven't checked your tail number, but I know super important Mr Patey has his blocked from tracking on all the usual sites. Is he worried about incriminating himself, or is it just he'd rather not have some weirdo tracking his every move?
Until I can be assured every Tom Dick and Harry doesn't have free and open access to my track, I'm out. It's bad enough they can get my home address by searching my markings...
Kudos to Trent for having the ADSB discussion, hopefully this results in more lives saved 👍
Anyone who carries a cellphone is already traceable.
The FAA would have to go through a lot more hoops to get that kind of information. The NSA and CIA on the other hand...
Never had any really close calls, but adsb is the reason for that because I could see the collision course from a few miles out.
I just don't get why ADS-B isn't anonymous. You don't need to know the tail number to avoid a collision. Just like squaking 1200, ATC knows where you are but not who you are. ADS-B could easily be the same way in that it let's all other aircraft and ATC know where you are without identifying exactly which aircraft it is.
Hey it’s the outlaw pilot dude
🤣
I just saw on a youtube sailing channel which for boats equivalent is AIS they got a ticket for coming within 100 miles of a protected island, which they learned of when they got to port.
Just finished up my private and after being in several ADS-B equipped aircraft in a busy airport with no tower (up to 9 in the pattern with about 6 more in other areas within 7 miles, all inbound) ADS-B has definitely prevented some close calls, and added some very needed awareness. We had a situation recently where a L-39 was inbound but wasn't making radio calls inbound until he called out a final approach 3 miles out coming in fast with a SR20 already on final. The L-39 ADS-B altitude reported about a 100 foot difference between the SR20 directly below the L-39 before performing a go around... and then a left hand circle directly into the path of the downwind traffic... bad situation for a busy flight school when a hot shot like that rolls in. Never had a problem with the F-16 trainers from Vegas coming in.
The FAA didn’t develop ADS-B for pilot to pilot midair prevention. The primary goal was to use WAAS GPS to provide better position accuracy (vs. radar) to allow for reduced separation requirements, and therefore increased airspace efficiency for commercial operations. The ADS-B “in” features (traffic and weather) were offered as an incentive to entice the “little guys” to spend the $$$ and equip. I installed it in my Cessna in 2016.
We had a similar situation with ship-borne AIS (Automatic Identification System) that was introduced in 2002 and mandated for all vessels over 300gt. A lot of the arguments you brought up were made at the time but the reality was it made life much easier in busy areas. A cheaper system was brought in some years later enabling yachts and pleasure craft to fit them at a reasonable cost. I don't think anyone working at sea these days would want to be without one.
I love ADSB. I firmly believe it saved me already from a near miss / potential mid air a couple years ago. I intend to talk about it once my Sundowner is back in the air. Getting it repainted has taken WAY longer than I thought it would.
I just don't understand, if safety was the goal of ADS-B then why can't it be anonymous? You don't need to know the tail number of a craft to avoid it, only its location. If the FAA changed ADS-B to be anonymous, I believe the uptake would be better. I do agree, it improves safety, but it could easily be implemented without allowing the government and the entire world to ride along with every singe aircraft.
Thanks for the info. We have a somewhat similar system for maritime use. It’s called AIS or Automatic Identification System. Identifies the vessel size/type speed course and CPA, Closest Point of Approach. It is invaluable. And like ADSB, the more that use it, the better it works. And good luck with your legal issue. I think that you do a very conscientious job of aviation safety.
I am an advocate for adsb, however i have seen on many occasions where pilots stop using their #1 instrument, the windscreen. There is no substitute for visual scanning and adsb is another wonderful tool to help us pilots as long as you don’t solely rely on it and become lazy.
Exactly. ADS-B is a tool designed to help us find traffic. It's helpful to be able to see roughly "okay, this guy is at my 2 o'clock, high", look, and make visual contact with him. That's been my strategy in ADS-B planes. Helps a ton. But I never rely on just the ADS-B.
Thanks Trent for seeing you back in the Air.😊
Good luck getting all the owners of Piper Cubs and clones set up with ADS-B out, let alone ADS-B in. ADSB Out is cheap... getting ADS-B in and most likely with a glass panel, be it a Garmin G3 or a Dynon Skyview of some sort, and a good Transponder, is an expensive retrofit proposition, even assuming you can do all the install and wiring on an Experimental Plane yourself. I learned to fly under the 30 mile radius of Class B KLAX, with class C KBUR and KVNY, while based out of KWHP. ADS-B in and out was priceless in keeping me aware of the airspace around me. Miss my RV-12, a lot. Great little plane, plenty quick E-LSA.
I had a near-miss before the ADSB era near Schiphol Airport (EHAM), within a year after getting my private. Ever since that event I have been turning to technological aids (initially XRX, later I put both ADBS-IN/OUT as well as Flare in my plane (similar system to ADSB, used mainly by gliders). An important realisation though is that the you cannot rely 100% on those systems as long as there are planes flying around without such systems. So keep your head on a swivel at all times, even if you have those tech goodies up and running!
Had a similar near miss years ago with my Dad. We were flying out of Scotts Bluff and maybe 5 minutes after take off a biplane crop duster descended right in front of us about 20 feet away. Good thing he was faster or he would have plowed right into us.
I'm a student and only 10 hours into training and ADS-B has already saved me from a very shady situation with a Caravan turning downwind to base very early and cutting me off on final. They didn't see us, or seem to hear our radio calls & ADS-B + Foreflight warned us to the situation & we were able to make some frantic radio calls to alert the other pilot. So yeah ... im new to flying and already would never fly without ADS-B out and in.
Great video Trent- and yes mid air collisions are my worst fear, especially after a very near miss involving an aircraft overtaking me from behind many years ago. There is no possible way that I could have seen him. It was so close, that his engine was damn loud.
Thank you Trent. ADSB shows how the see part of see and avoid is actually a lot harder than anyone thought. Another instructor here. I've seen many airplanes on my ipad that I couldn't find outside, even when I know where they are! I have near perfect vision! Several times I've had to dodge other airplanes that got close from behind where I had no chance to see them any other way. It's not perfect, midairs still happen, but ADSB really helps a lot. Someone should invent a handheld ADSB out for those antiques, gliders, and motorgliders that are not required to have it. Also, ADSB data is also super useful for analyzing accidents - which we all learn from.
> Someone should invent a handheld ADSB
Look up the Sentry and Garmin portable ADSB units - or, if you trust it, the cheaper stratux ...
@@JohnPlocher Those are devices that receive ADSB data - I have one. I am talking about a totally different device that transmits ADSB to ground stations - a portable transponder - so that an aircraft without an electrical system can be a part of the ADSB system and be seen by everyone else to not have midairs. Also this could be a more inexpensive option for aircraft that have electrical but are not required to have ADSB out.
@@adriannye I plead a Homer Simpson moment - Duh! - and agree!
Agree with you Trent, but I have one pile-on point. I fly military aircraft that are ADS-B Exempt and have noticed in the past 2 years, a large dependence ADS-B among VFR traffic in congested airspace. Just because you have ADS-B in displaying on your tablet, that does NOT relieve you of the responsibility to look out the window and clear visually. You never know who else may be (legally) operating nearby without a transponder, and you can't forget about technological failures or ADS-B malfunctions. VFR still means you're flying VISUALLY, and aware that not everything in the sky shows up on the "fish finder." (thanks for the soap-box).
I learned to fly out of KEMT c 2013 in Los Angeles, which is busy airspace. At about 100 hours PIC, my plane was fitted with ADS-B and I realized that despite care, attention, and excellent eyesight I was only spotting about 1/6 of other planes within a few miles of me. Of course, there's a lot of sky up there, which helps. I did take a break from flying around 250 hours after a near-mid air collision on short final at my home airport. Like most NMACs and MACs, it happened near an airport (more planes) and in this case, a towered airport where the other aircraft (a helicopter doing flight training) requested a NE departure and flew NW straight across the numbers, close enough for me to see the whites of their eyes. I had a feeling that the tower and other pilot were going to fuck up and was super paranoid, to which I attribute my survival. Later the local FSDO basically covered it up, which wasn't much fun. My CFI always taught me to assume there was an unseen aircraft on short final, to hold short facing downwind, to never ever trust the tower without checking twice. The system works if everyone checks everyone else, but in this case they did the opposite, and then undermined the error-correcting process.
I’ve had 5-6 close calls avoided in the busy space between Portland and Seattle. My first cross country after a 16 year hiatus, we took off from Spanish Fork and didn’t notice Provo airspace as I fixated on the VOR ring…. Salt Lake Approach called us on the CTAF using my tail number from the ADSB and guided us out of danger.
We will be at the HSF next weekend! Should be a good time. See you there!
I'm located in Boulder, CO and the amount of mid air collisions here in the last two years has been eye opening. My opinion is that every aircraft should have a receiver and not just transmitter equipped. It blows my mind that there's a lack of receivers in aircraft in this area given how extremely congested the airspace is. Maybe there's a way to reduce the receiver installation cost through policy, or some innovation.
It's true, I'm from CO too and there have been a number of collisions...and it's wide open country.
Mine does, and I bought it from a gentleman in Boulder. I was there Saturday picking up some parts from him as well. Can't believe people in that airspace wouldn't have it.
Trent. You should have mentioned the fact we can fly under "anonymous" mode, which doesn't mean we are invisible. We just become a target and play well with the system. All completely legal. Basically this is done through the "UAT" option where the aircraft owner installs a 978Mhz UAT out solution in concert with a Mode C transponder. It works great and whenever the aircraft is squawking VFR the ICAO code is randomized internal to the unit. So nobody, not even the gubmit', can see your registration and ownership records. But that's okay because that is not the point of ADS-B (whether 978 or 1090es). The point of "out" is to make sure the traffic around you can see you and be alerted to that. Under anonymous mode you are still visible. So with UAT out it's you are like any other car on the freeway where folks see and avoid each other, With 1090es solutions (or in fact any Mode S) you are that same car but now with your name and address scribed across the back window for all the world to see. Hello stalker. Hello competitor. So I would suggest both you and your backcountry brethren use UAT "out" unit combined with Mode C rather than one of the more expensive 1090es solutions. And don't conflate "in" with out. The all-in-one 1090es transponders with both in and out just cost extra money. A lot more money. So what is an example of a UAT "out" with Mode C? How about a Garmin GTX 327 ($325 with tray) combined with a GDL 82 ($1,800) with the anonymous pin of the GDL providing a switch on the panel to enable anonymous mode. Then for "in" get a GDL 5x(r) ($700 to $1200 with SXM) or Stratus or whatever floats your boat. In fact in your case the GDL 52 would work awesome and provide everything you need right on the G3X. Let's face it . It is the "in" FIS-B and TIS-B technology that is always being improved and updated. So why not have a cheaper in stand-along that can be swapped out to the latest and greatest over time and leave the transponder alone. All the while having the option to switch over to anonymous mode to keep complaints at bay. Shoot, Florida will send your an excise tax bill just for overlying their airspace if you are broadcasting your N-Number. You can fight it but who needs all that?
Seems like it is extra cost just to keep the stalkers away. The system should be safe from that and anonymised as standard as there is no benefit to safety from having all the personal date available to whoever wants to stalk you.
@@paul8498 It is actually way cheaper to go UAT than getting an all-in-one transponder like L3 or GTX 345. Do a cost comparison.
Excellent dissertation on the ADSB issue. Last time I was flying it didn't exist. Thank you!