My opinion is... If you use the knife for "knife tasks" and not "non knife tasks" then hyper steel doesn't matter. 440c is all you will ever need. The diminishing returns on "hyper steels" are crazy. I have a feeling most steel snobs never use that hyper steel blade for more than cutting a loose thread on their tactical socks.
@@wdpepler No, I agree with you that they probably shouldn't be, but I know people who for some reason feel the need to carry expensive knives (and drive expensive cars) as status symbols
Amen Brother. Are the knives more serviceable today than 20 years ago? I'm 70 and been toting knives since I was 6. Those carbon blades got the job done and still do today. I think we get hyped up about the latest steels and pay a high price for marginal, at best, improvements. We need to develop our critical thinking!
100% agree! What we never have to forget is that most of the people are collectors! To „work“ with a knife is to cut through paper or to cut a tomato! I need my knives to work hard in the woods or the mountains! I need tough and reliable steel that is easy to sharpen and even when I destroy the knife I will not start to cry! Think about you buy a knife for 350 bucks and you go to the forest and loose it! Nightmare! I also have expensive knives but when it comes to real and hard work I use my simple and cheaper knives.
I'm a rescue medic and just carry a chinese hiper cheap folder, have had it for about 6 years and still use it daily, works like a charm, don't need more than a few minutes in the stones to get razor sharp and just love it, got my fancy camping/bushcraft knives but that chinese little guy is my everyday companion
I agree with you. GEC uses 1095 and most seem to like it. I grew up with a carbon steel knife, still like them. Several years ago I needed a cheap knife that if I broke or lost it no big deal, just buy another one, it was a Rough Ryder, still have it, it did what I needed it to do.
Completely agree, within reason. As long as the heat treat is done well. Their is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to hardness, price, etc. It also depends what you’re cutting. Carpet will dull things faster than wood, but a super hard steel will chip out if you hit a staple, so you need toughness too. There’s a reason swords and axes still use good old carbon steel. Handle comfort, edge geometry, heat treat, and selecting the right steel for the application are king. Doesn’t hurt to know how to sharpen either.
Awesome video! I totally agree. I started going down the same road. Started out with 8cr13MOV, 420HC and others like that. Eventually I wanted better and better steels, but then I found myself scared to use them because they were so expensive, and so hard to sharpen. Lately I've been carrying my Gerber vertebrae in 7cr17MOV, and I'm super impressed with it! Sure, it dulls faster and rolls easier than a higher end steel, but I'm not afraid to use it in the field because I know I can tune it up in no time.
Agree with you there. I know someone with Buck's s30v Vanguard, completely cleaned, butchered a moose without needing to sharpen and the knife still cut paper. Even after running along some bone. But this is an extreme once every couple years kinda task. There is no denying the the super steels of yesterday (which are average steels today haha) are better than the old 01s 1095s and so on. But its still just STEEL not diamond (there are diamond knives being used in labs) The knife is not being reinvented. Its been around for like 100,000 years! Its amazing that the most basic of tools is still being improved on today. Its needless to disregard all the steels that went before. Perhaps it is even arrogant to do so? I wonder if this has anything to do with our disposable, consumer culture we have. Status symbols and such. I have 2 knives with s30v but my most used knife this summer is my 8Cr13MoV steeled knife. I abuse it in the workplace knowing that in 2 minutes its shaving sharp again.
I agree one hundred percent. Serviceability is my main concern. If I can't take care of it myself, then I really don't want it. 1095 is my personal preference.
My only real issue with the different steels is when companies charge too much for some of the cheaper steels (420 or Aus 8) when other same or better makers are giving you S30V and the like for the same price or cheaper.
a good example is SOG knives. most of their knives are Aus8 which is decent if you are paying $25-30 for a knife not $150+ like they charge. for the prices they charge you should be getting s30v/s35vn. SOG has good designs thats about it.
I am 100% with you on serviceability! With my kitchen knives, the ones I use most are actually the softer ones because I can sharpen them so much quicker, and to keep a razor edge I'd have to sharpen any of them anyway, regardless what food I'm chopping! I also have a more relaxed and stress-free cooking experience knowing it's not my delicate no. 1 knife I'm using! So I can focus more on the food than the knife in a way. The board I'm chopping on also has such a large influence on which steel I'm using! I'm also a landscaper by trade so I use a knife daily. And have to sharpen almost daily. So I've become fond of using my "shit knives" as I call them. Cus I actually use them more and can sharpen them quickly and less delicately.
I always saw the steel choice as an extension of what the knife was going to be used for. If I'm using a camp knife as a chopper, I don't need to shave with it so a durable steel that resists chipping and breaking when beating, prying and twisting is more important than a knife that retains a razor sharp edge. If I have a task that involves more refined cutting or prolonged slicing, like cutting sisal, feather sticking firewood or hacking up cardboard, I'd want a steel that holds an edge longer. The problem occurs when you have to choose a single knife to be a jack-of-all-trades. The steel selection becomes more tricky. That usually only happens under specific conditions (multi-day hikes, bug-out or get-home scenarios) but in those cases, I'm going to want something that I can sharpen easier regardless of the usage. My logic for that is, as Kyle pointed out, that regardless of the steel, you're going to have to sharpen the knife at some point no matter what. If I'm in the bush, I don't want to be able to sharpen efficiently because I will clearly have other things to spend my time on.
Much as I'd like some powder steel knives I've never bought one, my feeling is if you can't afford to lose it you can't afford to use it. All my blades are high carbon steel, Sandvik steels in Mora knives, or generic stainless in folders.
I have a knife collection of around 35 knives. I have recently came upon the same findings as you! Even though the blade steels range from 7CR to M4, at the end of the week, sometimes even days, they all need re-sharpened. Will some hold an edge longer? No doubt, but me being me, I cannot carry a dull knife. I use my knives hard being a maintenance man. Cutting anything from cardboard to zip-ties, stripping wire, scraping surfaces, cutting melted plastic, cutting rope to rubber belts, occasionally unlocking electrical cabinets, and so on. No matter the type of steel, they all need to be re-sharpened or touched up at least once weekly. Here are some of my findings. 7 or 8cr 13 needs to be sharpened about twice as much as most other higher cost steels. But they take only about a few minutes, and get to a hair popping edge. Cheap and even if it breaks I won't think twice about the few bucks I spent. D2 is about my 3rd favorite blade steel. Takes a bit longer to sharpen, but will hold an edge about twice as long as 7 or 8 cr, the only draw back is that it isn't as stainless. 154CM is a sweet compromise between edge retention, stainlessness and ease of sharpening. Have a few of these, and they can take a beating. This is the "old" s30v, and in my opinion just as good. I would list the 2 neck to neck. S30v ,my most owned blade, to me is still the best bang for the buck, and will hold an edge slightly longer than D2. Find the when it dulls, the edge is more likely to roll, then any other steel. Blade geometry and grind type will allow for longer edge retention. S35vn. I see no real edge holding supremacy to S30v, only added cost. It is noticeably harder to sharpen than s30v, and to me it is just not worth the upgrade. S45vn is a nice upgrade to S30v, and I really like this steel. holds an edge about twice as long as S30v, and about equal on sharpening ease and time. S110v is on only one of my blades, ( A manix 2 LW), and one that I will never purchase again. Broke the tip on the first day of owning it, and chipped the blade cutting a zip-tie on day 3. Feels brittle, and should only be used in a slicing cutting method. M4 is a nice blade. Edge retention is way superior to anything else I own. Ease of sharpening, well there is nothing easy about it. But the Superfreak only visits the sharpening station about once every 2 months. Just make sure to oil the blade once in a while, this type is prevalent to corrosion due to it not being stainless. At the end of the day, know what you will use your knife and choose accordingly. For me it's either S30v, or D2. but I play hard when it comes to knife usage.
I rant about this all the time.I think.if more people learned to freehand sharpen there knives that snobbery would soon be replaced with 440c or the like.ps.I just learning and loving it were knife people aren't we.granted pure collectors are different but if you claim to use them maintain them.rant over smilie face back on.atb paddy🍀👍☺
After 40 years of collecting knives I agree 100%. I own more knives than I could ever use. I’ve found that a good mid quality steel really is the most reasonable compromise. On folders I still like 440c, VG10, but Sandvik 14c,13c and even 12c are one of the best values. For fixed blade knives I like 1095. I purchased a condor with 1075 steel and kept that knife next to my wood burning stove for years and would baton small logs to make kindling. I beat on that knife daily for a few years and that knife is still in great shape a few strokes on a stone or diamond sharpener and it’s shaving sharp again. I’ve spent hundreds on knives that I can’t bring myself to beat on then I remind my self knives are tools to be used and sometimes used hard.
*//THIS IS HOW METAL WORKS; Vote up.* _The harder the metal; The more likely it will break, but the longer it will hold an edge._ _The softer the metal; The less likely it will break, but the shorter it will hold an edge._ _The springier the metal; The more likely it will bend, but the less likely it will break._ _Corrosion resistance sacrifices the above variables to varying degrees._ This is how it works. There is no magic metal. There is specific metal for specific jobs. Any time you increase one physical attribute, you lower the others by predictable and equatable amounts. Steel is iron and carbon. The more carbon the harder it is. The more iron the softer it is. Different processing techniques adjust the tension(springiness). Corrosion resistance comes from adding TINY TINY amounts of "weaker" elements. We use steel for a reason. When you dilute the steel... the obvious happens.
Well said! I like the Victorinox steel because I can strop it on my blue jeans. I love the Case CV and the Case TruSharp Surgical Stainless. My favorites, however, are the Sandvik 12c27 and 14c27N. Both of those get razor sharp with great ease, and hold an edge long enough to get my usual tasks done.
Welcome to consumer culture. Some improvements come from the engineers, and some come from the marketing team. Either way, there absolutely MUST be improvements... otherwise we might stay happy with what we've already bought :D
I think a lot of knife collectors just get to that point where they aren't excited about the more common steels. Once you have been collecting a long time, the Kershaw skyline just doesn't excite you any more like it once did. Then you get to a point where the Benchmade's don't, and so on and so fourth. That doesn't mean that the skyline isn't a good knife, because it is, but once you have gotten into the Striders, and Hinderer's and Sebenza's of the knife world, the standard buck knife just isn't going to excite you. Just like it would be hard for a car collector to go from a Ferrari, back to a civic, that doesn't mean the civic is junk, it's just not the same. With knives, the steel is where a lot of excitement, and hype comes in. Once you start spending a lot of time on the forums, and Instagram, and Facebook groups, you start hearing about these new "amazing knife steels", you get excited to get it in hand, and see what it can do. Personally, In my line of work, I get to use my knives all day, every day. If I were to take a basic Kershaw or whatever, and use it at work, I'm going to have to spend a lot of time sharpening. Not that it would take long to sharpen, but I would have to do it often. Eventually, I would run out of use on that blade. Because of that, I typically carry two knives. One that I use for most tasks, usually my Hinderer Eklipse, or spyderco Tuff ( that knife kicks ass for hard use ), than I'll also carry one of my GEC traditionals for fine tasks, food prep, stuff like that. Others might not agree, but hey, that's what makes me happy, lol
I agree with you. My thinking is if it works for you then it must be a good knife. I'm old school I love the old Green River knives. I'm a carbon steel guy.
I have a lot of knives in all sorts of different steels, and what I've come away with is the heat treat and edge geometry are far more important than the blade material itself. My favorite steels are 1095, 5160, 52100, 80crv2, 3v, and cpm20cv. But certain makers have really figured out how to get the most out of certain steels like Buck with their 420hc, or Bark River with A2 for example. Anyone can buy a chunk of steel and put an edge on it, and the generic heat treatment recommendations are going to give you a good result, but certainly not get the most from it. The "delta" heat treat that Nathan the Machinist came up with for 3v is almost like an entirely different steel compared to my 3v knives from other manufacturers, the performance is that different.
To be honest, Kyle, I'm loving this stupid made in Gina 389 Buck Canoe - the one you seen already - while I wait for my 940 to come back. I don't even know what kind of steel it has but it's working great for daily tasks... 👍
I've got most of the steels on your table,... VG10, D2, S30V, and topping out with Elmax. That being said, you will NEVER find me without a SAK, and unless I'm "just showing off", 90% of the time that's what I reach for. The only exception to that is when I'm processing a deer or equivalent. I do then like a super steel because it's so nice not to have to touch up in the middle of the process. Thanks for you comments!
I don't consider myself a steel snob. However, I'd never ever spend my money on a blade made from 420, non-Buck's 420HC, 3Cr...,5Cr..., AUS6, unbranded steels, "Pakistan steel", "Surgical steel".
Haha yes! I have seen that particular video and I did have it in mind when I wrote the comment. His list did contain many of the most commonly used & objectively bad "Chinesium steels" out there. It's the kind of steels that suck even after good heat treat and go dull after your first sharpness tests on regular paper. You would be disappointed even if you got the knife for free. Regular 1095/1084 carbon steel, D2, or stainless 440C/12c27 is faaar ahead in terms of edge retention and you often pay the same for them. The fact that some companies sell knives with badly heat-treated rubbish blade steels for hundreds of dollars is outrageous and honestly makes me mad. This is not steel snobbery, It's a real scam to look out for. I have personally used $10 knives that outperform $100+ knives. As a knifemaker and knife enthusiast I do want people to be aware of this.
I have a 420HC by Condor, the Primitive Bush Knife that is an Absolute BEAST! I would gladly spend my money on another one of these. It performs as well as my GSO-7/7 in CPM3V. Maybe you are a steel snob? LOL
I understand your point, especially as a professional knife sharpener. For me though, why would I carry a knife in 420 hc or 440 c when I could carry my CPM S110v Spyderco Manix? With the higher grade steels I can lessen my angle without my knife edge rolling or chipping (I run my Manix at like 13-15 degrees). I would prefer a knife that is sharper in the long run and that I am able to get sharper than something that dulls quickly, and I accept the downside of it taking me longer to sharpen. A high grade, above 60 HRC steel teaches me to treat my knife with more respect too, and to not drive the edge into staples. With Japanese whetstones I have not found it unbearable to sharpen anyway, and I never go below 1000 grit too. If you are tired of how hard it is to sharpen your s30v blade you should look into s35VN, especially with a heat treat like Chris Reeve. Very easy to sharpen with good performance.
I don't know if I'm a steel snob, it's about value for me in a knife, what am I getting for the money and what could I get from another maker for the same money. For example a choice I just made was between a spyderco endura and a cold steel broken skull. Same price and general size, uses etc. I picked the cold steel because the steel is much better, xhp vs vg-10. I don't think vg-10 is junk and I don't NEED xhp but I think I got more for my money and that made me a little happier and like the knife a little more.
Agree with your premise. Wish I was able to agree that Swiss army steel was easy to touch up. I have a Wenger that is always on me and I have had a terrible time getting the edge back when it goes.
Variety is a great thing when it comes to steels. There is something for every task. VG10 and S30V are great but I love the edge retention of my S110V. With diamond stones, I find it easy enough to get S110V hair whittling sharp.
That Buck is a thing of beauty. I strop sharpen all my knives, most of them have a custom convex edge. You can forget about doing that with the snobber steels, LOL! I love me some good 'ol 440A&C, AUS-8, Mora-HC and 420HC.🤙👌👍✌️
I suppose these supersteel things are neat- but like, literarily. I do love me a brave, field-expediant Opinel that will dive right in without fear of mussing up its dress slacks etc lol
"I know you've got your diamond and ceramic that make it faster". Exactly. You get some decent diamond plates and that 40+ minute chore is cut down to maybe 10 minutes. Cheap steel might be easier to sharpen, but it's the difference between having to do it daily vs maybe once a week with hard use. Maybe it's just me, but daily sounds like a bigger chore.
That Bark River has the best steel on your table. 3v with a convex edge. Super tough and so simple to bring back to razor sharp. If you need your camping knife to process wood for two or more nights then you will be happy to have it. Try doing that with 1095. S30v is pretty good, but you cut a couple pork steaks and open a few boxes with it and you're dull. For me s90v, 20cv or m390 for your EDC folder and 3v for your carbon steel fixed blade. Have one of each and you don't need a table full of knives.
I like premium steels but I end up razor-edging and pampering expensive knives made in them... sometimes I just need a $20 chew-toy that I can dash on a stone a bit, make a fugly working edge and go back at whatever I'm doing. I'd rather sharpen cheap cheese-steel twice a day than waste expensive high-end steel on a stone each week. I carry two Benchmade pocket-queens that can lop daisy petals, but my primary work knife is a $20 Curseall in the popular 8cR13wXyZwHaT3VeR steel.
I agree heartily. My EDC is a Gerber US1 which I have literally gotten shaving sharp with a piece of cement and my leather boot. Everything after realistic functional use maybe just for bragging rights. Another strong argument in your favor is Morakniv. There knives are very functional, highly durable, and fairly inexpensive. Their is no need for boutique steel in the Robust. Easy to take care of and reliable in use. Very well said sir.
I couldn’t agree more with you on this... I get caught up in it sometimes too and you just have to remember some of the knives you had as a kid and it all comes back.
I recently got my first folder -- as in, it was given to me during my livestream this week. It's a Ganzo Firebird in 440C. Pretty basic knife, but it works fine and it looks nice. I'd love a 940, but the price is out of my league right now. I don't yet have a hard and fast philosophy on stainless or on steel for folders at all. For a fixed-blade, I like me some 01. I find it hits the right balance of edge retention and ease of sharpening.
I have some O1 stock I'm building some customs out of. Fixed blades. Congrats on your first folder. I never leave the house without a blade on my person, for various reasons. I have heard good things about the Ganzo knives. I was actually asked to receive a bunch of them for reviewing from a company, but I wouldn't, given my connections with WR Case.
I have knives of all different steel types. Honestly my favorite are ATS 34 and straight up carbon steel. For me, both are easily sharpenable (made that word up) and I will carry different versions every day.
The truth is that the folks who are in fact the "steel snobs" do little more with their knives than maybe gingerly cut open a box, or clean out from under their nails. Men (not the Gillette men, *real* men) use their knives, and the old stand-bys are still what is preferred. People who pay over 100 dollars for a knife NEVER use it abusively. They're afraid to! :) When I was a kid, I drove the blade of my Buck 110 through a 3/8" bolt. (inspired by Buck's logo, of course)... the blade came out fine, with only a little flattening of the edge, which sharpened out just fine. I have a Case XX trapper like yours, except mine has blue handles (A Lowe's Home Improvement exclusive, I was told)... and it's a great knife. Some of these "higher end" steels are as you say, not easy to sharpen--and on the brittle side too (try driving the steel du jour through a bolt and see how it fares)... Good video.
4 steels I like to use are 440c, d2, 4116 German, and CTS bd1. None of these are considered super steel and this CTS, while I'm not sure where it falls into the mix of steels, it is awesome to use and work with. Aus8 is pretty good too.
As much as I love my S110V and Metamax knives, nothing beats VG-10 or my Victorinox for EDC tasks. I do genuinely hate 1095, though. It rusts every time it rains 2 towns over. I do think S30V is the best innovation in steel in decades, as it does a lot of things really well and it still pretty easy to maintain; but, if you don't need a knife that tough there's little practical reason to pay extra for it.
Hear! Hear! I always get a chuckle out of people bashing AUS-8. I actually talked to the head of the company that does the heat treat for most knives that come out of Seki (among them Spyderco, Cold Steel etc). He couldn't understand why people would choose VG-10 over AUS-8 for larger outdoor knives. AUS-8 is considerably tougher and easier to sharpen than VG-10 and it doesn't chip as easily. I get the appeal of the super steels for smaller knives that need to do a lot of cutting into tough, abrasive stuff. However, as you said - a carbon steel or low alloy stainless sharpens right up when it gets dull. Just the other week I hit my machete against a rock while removing a stump - the heavily impacted edge was fixed with a few minutes of filing and a few passes on the whetstone.
Well said absolutely spot on, so much easier to work with a softer steel as opposed to a hard one, you know like you said it's all down to the fun aspect and time consuming fixing isn't fun.
A really nice and relevant video, even five years later. I hand-sharpen knives for a living, and I mostly use three knives: a stainless Mora Companion HD for heavy duty work, a Victorinox Locksmith for everyday usage, and a SOG Terminus XR in S35VN for bragging rights and because its action is so damn fidgety and fun. Each one of them works pretty fine in my opinion.
I agree 100% man. I've done the transition... Worked my way up to the "super steels", and with how hard I am on my knives and how I do my own repairs/sharpening, I pretty quickly rotated back to some "softer" stuff LOL
Very good point! (Not a pun). I agree and usually carry something in 1095 for my everyday carry because it's easy to touch up. Thanks for an informative video.
I see this video is a year old but I agree with you. If you still have guys looking to get rid of there lesser steel knives in Canada especially Spyderco’ s send them to me.
When you watch people rank knife steels it’s rarely mentioned about ease of sharpening, probably because adding that to their charts would lower the desirability of many super steels. I don’t mind sharpening often if it’s easy.
Great video! I agree 100%! I own 50+ knives (AUS8, ATS34, Pakistan steel, S30V, etc.) but my Opinel and Victorinox are the knife that get the most pocket time and I keep them always razor sharp. Very happy with my old 940 Osborne in 154CM and my Endura in VG-10. However I'm trading my VG-10 Delica for the same knife in ZDP-189... just out of curiosity!
Buck does a hell of a heat treat. Their 420 is top notch. However, some of us are collectors. But the term "super steel" is not as super to us average dudes. Maintenance is everything. Blade hq, knifeworks, Gp knives, are part of this sprint mentality. I tend to gravitate towards anything made by crucible but that's because I like American made products and collection purposes. But you are right. 420 hc by buck is a monster steel. Heat treat, blade geometry and purpose are more important than an over priced bohler m390 or cpm magnecut.
I sharpen everything with diamond stones, strop with diamond compound, and the time difference is negligible, if any. There's a great article on knifegrinders where you can see why you shouldn't use stones for high vanadium powdered steels. You're basically tearing away the steel matrix and chipping off the vanadium instead of evenly abrading it with diamonds.
I like my Victorinox "Farmer" has stainless blades and my Ontario Rat 1 with D2 steel. The Victorinox will sharpen very fast and razor sharp, the Ontario a little more work with the d2 but it stays sharp for a good long time. Nice video. Ray, Oklahoma
I agree with you. My favorite Knife is my 11 Euro Hultafors GK 380020 Carbonsteel Knife, easy to sharpen, and if you hit a stone or something, never mind, the Knife takes it as a man ;) I also have a 300 Euro Knife, but do not use it, because i am afraid, i damage it, so it is only to look at, not to use it. ;)
Great video that makes a good point. As others have said the progress in steel composition technology in the last 100 years has been monumental and no doubt we are living in the hay-day of knife steels but your observation that 'super steels' are not always the best option for every job is an important one. Many people would be surprised at how much real world use you can get from the budget and intermediate steels between sharpening sessions and how much easier they are to sharpen when the time comes. There are practical uses for super steels and so they have their place but it's not a case of the harder/tougher/more wear resistant a blade is the better it is. As with everything in life it's about choosing the right tool for the job and striking a good balance. My collection is riddled with M390, 20CV, Elmax, LC200N, 3V, XHP, S110,90,30 and so on, some friends are sometimes surprised to see 8Cr13MoV, 440c, 12C27, 4116 and 1095 in there too. Its about options, and truth be told the budget steels are more frequently the preferable option for the job.
As a knife maker I disagree about 70%. A moderate amount of snobbery is essential if you want superior experience in field use. But where I agree is at a certain point super steel differences get over valued. With proper skill and knowhow a blade can be honed or resharpened without much time. It's far less time lost doing a 10 minute sharpening 1 time than a 5 minute sharpening 3 times. If ReSharpening is the hold back, practice ReSharpening. It depends on how much work you need out of a knife. And are you a collector or a user, primarily. Having 1 $200 dollar knives is cheaper than 10 $30 dollar knives. To be clear I enjoyed the video and believe some good points were made.
I do love good steel having said that I also agree with you.... I have some knifes I don't like to use because I Dred pulling out the stone and some I don't mind at all to use cause they sharpen easy and quick
While i do appreciate my high end steels, i also love my buck 110 in 440 c and my 8cr13mov budget steels. Cts bd1 is one of my favorites so i fully agree. Good vid subject
I completely agree with you I carry a small Case knife or an S A K , every day to do my small chores with. They return to a great edge quicky .For my large tactical knifes I like S30 V or C P M 154 in my line of work I use the larger knife for a very few things so touching them up is usually easy .
The knife steels are often rated by blade retention, so one can easily succumb to the belief that the higher the blade retention, the better the steel. I think the better gauge is USEAGE. My ESSE 6 with 1095 works great in the woods, and my Gerber Gator's 154CM is fine for my work knife. However, my EDC is usually the Cold Steel Recon S35VN, Benchmade M390, or Kizlyar D2. They all have their purpose. I have become more fond of Aus8, D2, VG10 for their ease of sharpening. I always look at the steel before buying a knife and the intended use. Nor do I fret over a carbon blade rusting, as I simply run a lubricant over it occasionally, just as we always did with a blued barrel rifle after hunting.
Kyle, I think that black Victorinox is a 'Climber.' Great knife. I'm kind of a 5160 guy. Or 154CM. Or S35V. But D2 is nice...and I kinda like S3V...and 1095. Luv my Buck 110's! Oh, those are 420HC...and S30V...... I'd love a SAK made with a Blue Hitachi steel knife blade, but in the meantime, I'll just carry my Climber.
I agree to a certain level. I sharpen my own knives and I still gravitate towards steels VG10 or better. I am more for having an edge last me a while than having to touch up or sharpen lower end steels regularly. At the same time, there’s a niche for each blade steel (edc, buchcraft, survival, ect..) To each their own. 👍🏼
Any high carbon tool steels are my personal preference. I do appreciate, own and use super steels but nothing compares to a nice carbon blade with a nice patina. Oh and wooden scales. But that's me.
I agree 101% !!! Thank you! I have a modest collection of knives/blades/etc. All over the spectrum. One of my buddies is very well-off and *extremely* into blades. He gifted me a Benchmade pocket knife ... it's 154CM , now that model is only made with S30V but is considerably more expensive .. but still, a Mini-Griptilian is a small, folding pocket knife that was like $125+ and yes, the 154CM is absolutely great steel (S30V even more premium of course) ... but some of Benchmade's fixed blades are $450+ ... a $48 Gerber does a lot of the same things for me ... and I don't at all understand the people who - for example I just saw a guy ABSOLUTELY ABUSE a Gerber Ultimate Survival (7Cr17MoV) - I mean he *beat the shit* out of it, and it finally breaks after he puts it through the roof of a car dozens of times AND PURPOSEFULLY tries to bend and break it- and then pronounces it "a piece of shit" - Sure seemed like you just proved how freaking good it is! And if you are actually ever in a situation where your knife is your life, it's hard for me to believe people are going to be like "Man I hate this cheap Chinese stainless steel knife I bought for a great price! It's just not helping me Survive enough, I should have went with S30V..." Getttttt the fuck outta here. Anyway thanks.
I can't afford the fancy steels. Most expensive steel I have is s 30v. Now I don't have to sharpen it as often but it's something I can do. Being retired time is secondary. I have one knife i haven't had to snarpen in years (Kershaw Black horse) &don't even know what kind of steel it is. Back then it wasn't important. Takes a good edge though. Steel is less important than its ability to do the job and its cost. I also am careful with the blades and try not to whittle on nails and strips of metal
I think its fun to try new steels. Just getting into them now but I find a huge part of the fun of getting a new knife is trying the steel. Of course I want a good 1095 or better in the backcountry where sharpening isnt so easy, but aside from that I agree totally; you can just sharpen your knife. M390 and S35VN make great fixed blades for prolonged rough use without a good sharpening, imo
Geometry is far more important than steel composition as is heat treat. Geometry first, heat treat 2nd and steel 3rd. Proper for the task at hand Geometry is what truly makes or breaks a knife.
Rocking my every day carry 6 rotation folders, all are D2, 8C13MOV, 440C, K110 none cost more than $45.00. All hold a good edge and super easy to sharpen and amazing mechanical, i never envy high end steel knives. Have 2 high end knives in my collection i never use because of fear of dropping, losing or damaging the blades.
For my hunting knives I prefer 3v, S30v and similar steels. As you know a moose hide will dull your knife edge in no time at all. As for EDC, you cant go wrong with bucks 420HC. Easy to touch up with a strop or ceramic rod. Just my two cents. Enjoy.
I hear ya Kyle, it's always about the next best thing, with all these steels on the market what's next, the Lightsaber? I have carried a Condor Bushlore for years, 1075 steel easy to maintain as long as I keep it dry, I was saving money for a $500 custom knife and my wife said one day that if she bought a knife that expensive she would probably either leave it home or carry it and never use it for fear of loss or damage, and I feel she is right that is exactly what I would do, I would wear it so people could see that I have a expensive custom knife but it would be a show and tell piece not a tool, thanks for the videos I love your channel and your love of axes! If they do come out with a Lightsaber though, I will probably buy it, LOL.
Day to day is far more demanding than your high end knives will probably see. On the farm, we skin 10 to 12 animals a year, cut miles of baling twine, ream hundreds of pvc pipes, carve thousands of dollars worth of clamshell, cut thousands of zip ties, then hunt and camp three times. I too believe the real super steels are the ones you can afford to do all of this with.
Just got a Rough Ryder bigfoot (buck 110 like knife) in a 440A steel. Great little pocket knife for $12. Super easy to sharpen around a camp fire at night. And the edge retention is very surprising.
Think the heat treatment is a major factor that goes undiscussed when people get in the weeds about steel types. Basically comes down to the manufacturer. And the only way to find out there is just to read reviews.
My opinion is... If you use the knife for "knife tasks" and not "non knife tasks" then hyper steel doesn't matter. 440c is all you will ever need. The diminishing returns on "hyper steels" are crazy. I have a feeling most steel snobs never use that hyper steel blade for more than cutting a loose thread on their tactical socks.
Status symbols
@@jmmartin7766 OK I agree it is useful as a status symbol but only very rarely. I carry a knife all the time and very rarely does anyone else see it
@@wdpepler No, I agree with you that they probably shouldn't be, but I know people who for some reason feel the need to carry expensive knives (and drive expensive cars) as status symbols
I like to replace the word “snob” with “douche”. Car douche, steel douche, etc.
Amen Brother. Are the knives more serviceable today than 20 years ago? I'm 70 and been toting knives since I was 6. Those carbon blades got the job done and still do today. I think we get hyped up about the latest steels and pay a high price for marginal, at best, improvements. We need to develop our critical thinking!
100% agree!
What we never have to forget is that most of the people are collectors! To „work“ with a knife is to cut through paper or to cut a tomato!
I need my knives to work hard in the woods or the mountains! I need tough and reliable steel that is easy to sharpen and even when I destroy the knife I will not start to cry! Think about you buy a knife for 350 bucks and you go to the forest and loose it! Nightmare!
I also have expensive knives but when it comes to real and hard work I use my simple and cheaper knives.
I'm a rescue medic and just carry a chinese hiper cheap folder, have had it for about 6 years and still use it daily, works like a charm, don't need more than a few minutes in the stones to get razor sharp and just love it, got my fancy camping/bushcraft knives but that chinese little guy is my everyday companion
Glad it's working for you!
I’ve watched dozens if not hundreds of knife videos and this is by far my overall favorite. Thank you for putting things in perspective!!!! Well done
im too poor to be a knife snob
Same!
Likewise
Yup.
I agree with you. GEC uses 1095 and most seem to like it. I grew up with a carbon steel knife, still like them. Several years ago I needed a cheap knife that if I broke or lost it no big deal, just buy another one, it was a Rough Ryder, still have it, it did what I needed it to do.
Completely agree, within reason. As long as the heat treat is done well. Their is a point of diminishing returns when it comes to hardness, price, etc. It also depends what you’re cutting. Carpet will dull things faster than wood, but a super hard steel will chip out if you hit a staple, so you need toughness too. There’s a reason swords and axes still use good old carbon steel. Handle comfort, edge geometry, heat treat, and selecting the right steel for the application are king. Doesn’t hurt to know how to sharpen either.
Awesome video! I totally agree. I started going down the same road. Started out with 8cr13MOV, 420HC and others like that. Eventually I wanted better and better steels, but then I found myself scared to use them because they were so expensive, and so hard to sharpen. Lately I've been carrying my Gerber vertebrae in 7cr17MOV, and I'm super impressed with it! Sure, it dulls faster and rolls easier than a higher end steel, but I'm not afraid to use it in the field because I know I can tune it up in no time.
I am so happy someone has finally done a video about this. Agree %100.
Agree with you there. I know someone with Buck's s30v Vanguard, completely cleaned, butchered a moose without needing to sharpen and the knife still cut paper. Even after running along some bone. But this is an extreme once every couple years kinda task.
There is no denying the the super steels of yesterday (which are average steels today haha) are better than the old 01s 1095s and so on. But its still just STEEL not diamond (there are diamond knives being used in labs)
The knife is not being reinvented. Its been around for like 100,000 years! Its amazing that the most basic of tools is still being improved on today. Its needless to disregard all the steels that went before. Perhaps it is even arrogant to do so? I wonder if this has anything to do with our disposable, consumer culture we have. Status symbols and such.
I have 2 knives with s30v but my most used knife this summer is my 8Cr13MoV steeled knife. I abuse it in the workplace knowing that in 2 minutes its shaving sharp again.
I Love 8cr13. Aus8 is great as well
The knife has been around for over a million years.
Glad to hear someone else saying this. Steven Edholm at Skillcult has been preaching this for awhile, especially when it comes to axes. I agree.
I agree one hundred percent. Serviceability is my main concern. If I can't take care of it myself, then I really don't want it. 1095 is my personal preference.
My only real issue with the different steels is when companies charge too much for some of the cheaper steels (420 or Aus 8) when other same or better makers are giving you S30V and the like for the same price or cheaper.
a good example is SOG knives. most of their knives are Aus8 which is decent if you are paying $25-30 for a knife not $150+ like they charge. for the prices they charge you should be getting s30v/s35vn. SOG has good designs thats about it.
My everyday "work horse" is 440c and I love it. I couldn't agree more with your point great video
I am 100% with you on serviceability! With my kitchen knives, the ones I use most are actually the softer ones because I can sharpen them so much quicker, and to keep a razor edge I'd have to sharpen any of them anyway, regardless what food I'm chopping! I also have a more relaxed and stress-free cooking experience knowing it's not my delicate no. 1 knife I'm using!
So I can focus more on the food than the knife in a way.
The board I'm chopping on also has such a large influence on which steel I'm using!
I'm also a landscaper by trade so I use a knife daily. And have to sharpen almost daily. So I've become fond of using my "shit knives" as I call them. Cus I actually use them more and can sharpen them quickly and less delicately.
The bos steel sharpens up so well too
I'm guilty of snobbery. I usually don't go for AUS8 or less because they'll only hold up for a day or two while I'm camping.
I always saw the steel choice as an extension of what the knife was going to be used for. If I'm using a camp knife as a chopper, I don't need to shave with it so a durable steel that resists chipping and breaking when beating, prying and twisting is more important than a knife that retains a razor sharp edge. If I have a task that involves more refined cutting or prolonged slicing, like cutting sisal, feather sticking firewood or hacking up cardboard, I'd want a steel that holds an edge longer. The problem occurs when you have to choose a single knife to be a jack-of-all-trades. The steel selection becomes more tricky. That usually only happens under specific conditions (multi-day hikes, bug-out or get-home scenarios) but in those cases, I'm going to want something that I can sharpen easier regardless of the usage. My logic for that is, as Kyle pointed out, that regardless of the steel, you're going to have to sharpen the knife at some point no matter what. If I'm in the bush, I don't want to be able to sharpen efficiently because I will clearly have other things to spend my time on.
Much as I'd like some powder steel knives I've never bought one, my feeling is if you can't afford to lose it you can't afford to use it. All my blades are high carbon steel, Sandvik steels in Mora knives, or generic stainless in folders.
Anyone who is disliking this one is a staunch 'steel snob'.
Another great video Kyle.
I have a knife collection of around 35 knives. I have recently came upon the same findings as you! Even though the blade steels range from 7CR to M4, at the end of the week, sometimes even days, they all need re-sharpened. Will some hold an edge longer? No doubt, but me being me, I cannot carry a dull knife. I use my knives hard being a maintenance man. Cutting anything from cardboard to zip-ties, stripping wire, scraping surfaces, cutting melted plastic, cutting rope to rubber belts, occasionally unlocking electrical cabinets, and so on. No matter the type of steel, they all need to be re-sharpened or touched up at least once weekly. Here are some of my findings.
7 or 8cr 13 needs to be sharpened about twice as much as most other higher cost steels. But they take only about a few minutes, and get to a hair popping edge. Cheap and even if it breaks I won't think twice about the few bucks I spent.
D2 is about my 3rd favorite blade steel. Takes a bit longer to sharpen, but will hold an edge about twice as long as 7 or 8 cr, the only draw back is that it isn't as stainless.
154CM is a sweet compromise between edge retention, stainlessness and ease of sharpening. Have a few of these, and they can take a beating. This is the "old" s30v, and in my opinion just as good. I would list the 2 neck to neck.
S30v ,my most owned blade, to me is still the best bang for the buck, and will hold an edge slightly longer than D2. Find the when it dulls, the edge is more likely to roll, then any other steel. Blade geometry and grind type will allow for longer edge retention.
S35vn. I see no real edge holding supremacy to S30v, only added cost. It is noticeably harder to sharpen than s30v, and to me it is just not worth the upgrade.
S45vn is a nice upgrade to S30v, and I really like this steel. holds an edge about twice as long as S30v, and about equal on sharpening ease and time.
S110v is on only one of my blades, ( A manix 2 LW), and one that I will never purchase again. Broke the tip on the first day of owning it, and chipped the blade cutting a zip-tie on day 3. Feels brittle, and should only be used in a slicing cutting method.
M4 is a nice blade. Edge retention is way superior to anything else I own. Ease of sharpening, well there is nothing easy about it. But the Superfreak only visits the sharpening station about once every 2 months. Just make sure to oil the blade once in a while, this type is prevalent to corrosion due to it not being stainless.
At the end of the day, know what you will use your knife and choose accordingly. For me it's either S30v, or D2. but I play hard when it comes to knife usage.
I rant about this all the time.I think.if more people learned to freehand sharpen there knives that snobbery would soon be replaced with 440c or the like.ps.I just learning and loving it were knife people aren't we.granted pure collectors are different but if you claim to use them maintain them.rant over smilie face back on.atb paddy🍀👍☺
After 40 years of collecting knives I agree 100%. I own more knives than I could ever use. I’ve found that a good mid quality steel really is the most reasonable compromise. On folders I still like 440c, VG10, but Sandvik 14c,13c and even 12c are one of the best values. For fixed blade knives I like 1095. I purchased a condor with 1075 steel and kept that knife next to my wood burning stove for years and would baton small logs to make kindling. I beat on that knife daily for a few years and that knife is still in great shape a few strokes on a stone or diamond sharpener and it’s shaving sharp again. I’ve spent hundreds on knives that I can’t bring myself to beat on then I remind my self knives are tools to be used and sometimes used hard.
Amen, brother.
*//THIS IS HOW METAL WORKS; Vote up.*
_The harder the metal; The more likely it will break, but the longer it will hold an edge._
_The softer the metal; The less likely it will break, but the shorter it will hold an edge._
_The springier the metal; The more likely it will bend, but the less likely it will break._
_Corrosion resistance sacrifices the above variables to varying degrees._
This is how it works. There is no magic metal. There is specific metal for specific jobs. Any time you increase one physical attribute, you lower the others by predictable and equatable amounts.
Steel is iron and carbon. The more carbon the harder it is. The more iron the softer it is. Different processing techniques adjust the tension(springiness).
Corrosion resistance comes from adding TINY TINY amounts of "weaker" elements. We use steel for a reason. When you dilute the steel... the obvious happens.
I think it’s funny, while i do have my s45vn and fancy steels, the knives we carry are just sharp pieces of metal
Well said! I like the Victorinox steel because I can strop it on my blue jeans. I love the Case CV and the Case TruSharp Surgical Stainless. My favorites, however, are the Sandvik 12c27 and 14c27N. Both of those get razor sharp with great ease, and hold an edge long enough to get my usual tasks done.
Welcome to consumer culture. Some improvements come from the engineers, and some come from the marketing team. Either way, there absolutely MUST be improvements... otherwise we might stay happy with what we've already bought :D
I think a lot of knife collectors just get to that point where they aren't excited about the more common steels. Once you have been collecting a long time, the Kershaw skyline just doesn't excite you any more like it once did. Then you get to a point where the Benchmade's don't, and so on and so fourth. That doesn't mean that the skyline isn't a good knife, because it is, but once you have gotten into the Striders, and Hinderer's and Sebenza's of the knife world, the standard buck knife just isn't going to excite you. Just like it would be hard for a car collector to go from a Ferrari, back to a civic, that doesn't mean the civic is junk, it's just not the same. With knives, the steel is where a lot of excitement, and hype comes in. Once you start spending a lot of time on the forums, and Instagram, and Facebook groups, you start hearing about these new "amazing knife steels", you get excited to get it in hand, and see what it can do. Personally, In my line of work, I get to use my knives all day, every day. If I were to take a basic Kershaw or whatever, and use it at work, I'm going to have to spend a lot of time sharpening. Not that it would take long to sharpen, but I would have to do it often. Eventually, I would run out of use on that blade. Because of that, I typically carry two knives. One that I use for most tasks, usually my Hinderer Eklipse, or spyderco Tuff ( that knife kicks ass for hard use ), than I'll also carry one of my GEC traditionals for fine tasks, food prep, stuff like that. Others might not agree, but hey, that's what makes me happy, lol
I agree with you. My thinking is if it works for you then it must be a good knife. I'm old school I love the old Green River knives. I'm a carbon steel guy.
I have a lot of knives in all sorts of different steels, and what I've come away with is the heat treat and edge geometry are far more important than the blade material itself. My favorite steels are 1095, 5160, 52100, 80crv2, 3v, and cpm20cv. But certain makers have really figured out how to get the most out of certain steels like Buck with their 420hc, or Bark River with A2 for example. Anyone can buy a chunk of steel and put an edge on it, and the generic heat treatment recommendations are going to give you a good result, but certainly not get the most from it. The "delta" heat treat that Nathan the Machinist came up with for 3v is almost like an entirely different steel compared to my 3v knives from other manufacturers, the performance is that different.
Great video, This is why I love my Griptilian in 154CM steel!
I thought I was the only one who uses 154cm here.
To be honest, Kyle, I'm loving this stupid made in Gina 389 Buck Canoe - the one you seen already - while I wait for my 940 to come back. I don't even know what kind of steel it has but it's working great for daily tasks... 👍
I've got most of the steels on your table,... VG10, D2, S30V, and topping out with Elmax. That being said, you will NEVER find me without a SAK, and unless I'm "just showing off", 90% of the time that's what I reach for. The only exception to that is when I'm processing a deer or equivalent. I do then like a super steel because it's so nice not to have to touch up in the middle of the process. Thanks for you comments!
I don't consider myself a steel snob. However, I'd never ever spend my money on a blade made from 420, non-Buck's 420HC, 3Cr...,5Cr..., AUS6, unbranded steels, "Pakistan steel", "Surgical steel".
Eastman137 you came from nick shabzzes vid didnt you
Haha yes! I have seen that particular video and I did have it in mind when I wrote the comment. His list did contain many of the most commonly used & objectively bad "Chinesium steels" out there.
It's the kind of steels that suck even after good heat treat and go dull after your first sharpness tests on regular paper. You would be disappointed even if you got the knife for free. Regular 1095/1084 carbon steel, D2, or stainless 440C/12c27 is faaar ahead in terms of edge retention and you often pay the same for them.
The fact that some companies sell knives with badly heat-treated rubbish blade steels for hundreds of dollars is outrageous and honestly makes me mad. This is not steel snobbery, It's a real scam to look out for. I have personally used $10 knives that outperform $100+ knives. As a knifemaker and knife enthusiast I do want people to be aware of this.
Eastman137 your a knife maker? can you send me to your website
I have a 420HC by Condor, the Primitive Bush Knife that is an Absolute BEAST! I would gladly spend my money on another one of these. It performs as well as my GSO-7/7 in CPM3V. Maybe you are a steel snob? LOL
The best part about buying more inexpensive knives is that I'm not afraid to use them
I understand your point, especially as a professional knife sharpener. For me though, why would I carry a knife in 420 hc or 440 c when I could carry my CPM S110v Spyderco Manix? With the higher grade steels I can lessen my angle without my knife edge rolling or chipping (I run my Manix at like 13-15 degrees). I would prefer a knife that is sharper in the long run and that I am able to get sharper than something that dulls quickly, and I accept the downside of it taking me longer to sharpen. A high grade, above 60 HRC steel teaches me to treat my knife with more respect too, and to not drive the edge into staples. With Japanese whetstones I have not found it unbearable to sharpen anyway, and I never go below 1000 grit too. If you are tired of how hard it is to sharpen your s30v blade you should look into s35VN, especially with a heat treat like Chris Reeve. Very easy to sharpen with good performance.
I don't know if I'm a steel snob, it's about value for me in a knife, what am I getting for the money and what could I get from another maker for the same money. For example a choice I just made was between a spyderco endura and a cold steel broken skull. Same price and general size, uses etc. I picked the cold steel because the steel is much better, xhp vs vg-10. I don't think vg-10 is junk and I don't NEED xhp but I think I got more for my money and that made me a little happier and like the knife a little more.
Agree with your premise. Wish I was able to agree that Swiss army steel was easy to touch up. I have a Wenger that is always on me and I have had a terrible time getting the edge back when it goes.
Variety is a great thing when it comes to steels. There is something for every task. VG10 and S30V are great but I love the edge retention of my S110V. With diamond stones, I find it easy enough to get S110V hair whittling sharp.
Thanks, this is something I’ve been thinking about for a while and you’re right!!!
That Buck is a thing of beauty. I strop sharpen all my knives, most of them have a custom convex edge. You can forget about doing that with the snobber steels, LOL! I love me some good 'ol 440A&C, AUS-8, Mora-HC and 420HC.🤙👌👍✌️
AMEN! Hell, I'm perfectly content with good old 1095 carbon, or whatever stainless Victorinox uses. Great video!
I suppose these supersteel things are neat- but like, literarily. I do love me a brave, field-expediant Opinel that will dive right in without fear of mussing up its dress slacks etc lol
"I know you've got your diamond and ceramic that make it faster". Exactly. You get some decent diamond plates and that 40+ minute chore is cut down to maybe 10 minutes. Cheap steel might be easier to sharpen, but it's the difference between having to do it daily vs maybe once a week with hard use. Maybe it's just me, but daily sounds like a bigger chore.
That Bark River has the best steel on your table. 3v with a convex edge. Super tough and so simple to bring back to razor sharp. If you need your camping knife to process wood for two or more nights then you will be happy to have it. Try doing that with 1095. S30v is pretty good, but you cut a couple pork steaks and open a few boxes with it and you're dull. For me s90v, 20cv or m390 for your EDC folder and 3v for your carbon steel fixed blade. Have one of each and you don't need a table full of knives.
On one point of yours I disagree. You always NEED at least one more knife. lol
I like premium steels but I end up razor-edging and pampering expensive knives made in them... sometimes I just need a $20 chew-toy that I can dash on a stone a bit, make a fugly working edge and go back at whatever I'm doing. I'd rather sharpen cheap cheese-steel twice a day than waste expensive high-end steel on a stone each week. I carry two Benchmade pocket-queens that can lop daisy petals, but my primary work knife is a $20 Curseall in the popular 8cR13wXyZwHaT3VeR steel.
I agree heartily. My EDC is a Gerber US1 which I have literally gotten shaving sharp with a piece of cement and my leather boot. Everything after realistic functional use maybe just for bragging rights.
Another strong argument in your favor is Morakniv. There knives are very functional, highly durable, and fairly inexpensive. Their is no need for boutique steel in the Robust. Easy to take care of and reliable in use.
Very well said sir.
I couldn’t agree more with you on this... I get caught up in it sometimes too and you just have to remember some of the knives you had as a kid and it all comes back.
I recently got my first folder -- as in, it was given to me during my livestream this week. It's a Ganzo Firebird in 440C. Pretty basic knife, but it works fine and it looks nice. I'd love a 940, but the price is out of my league right now.
I don't yet have a hard and fast philosophy on stainless or on steel for folders at all. For a fixed-blade, I like me some 01. I find it hits the right balance of edge retention and ease of sharpening.
I have some O1 stock I'm building some customs out of. Fixed blades.
Congrats on your first folder. I never leave the house without a blade on my person, for various reasons. I have heard good things about the Ganzo knives. I was actually asked to receive a bunch of them for reviewing from a company, but I wouldn't, given my connections with WR Case.
I have knives of all different steel types. Honestly my favorite are ATS 34 and straight up carbon steel. For me, both are easily sharpenable (made that word up) and I will carry different versions every day.
The truth is that the folks who are in fact the "steel snobs" do little more with their knives than maybe gingerly cut open a box, or clean out from under their nails. Men (not the Gillette men, *real* men) use their knives, and the old stand-bys are still what is preferred. People who pay over 100 dollars for a knife NEVER use it abusively. They're afraid to! :) When I was a kid, I drove the blade of my Buck 110 through a 3/8" bolt. (inspired by Buck's logo, of course)... the blade came out fine, with only a little flattening of the edge, which sharpened out just fine. I have a Case XX trapper like yours, except mine has blue handles (A Lowe's Home Improvement exclusive, I was told)... and it's a great knife. Some of these "higher end" steels are as you say, not easy to sharpen--and on the brittle side too (try driving the steel du jour through a bolt and see how it fares)... Good video.
4 steels I like to use are 440c, d2, 4116 German, and CTS bd1. None of these are considered super steel and this CTS, while I'm not sure where it falls into the mix of steels, it is awesome to use and work with. Aus8 is pretty good too.
As much as I love my S110V and Metamax knives, nothing beats VG-10 or my Victorinox for EDC tasks. I do genuinely hate 1095, though. It rusts every time it rains 2 towns over. I do think S30V is the best innovation in steel in decades, as it does a lot of things really well and it still pretty easy to maintain; but, if you don't need a knife that tough there's little practical reason to pay extra for it.
Hear! Hear! I always get a chuckle out of people bashing AUS-8. I actually talked to the head of the company that does the heat treat for most knives that come out of Seki (among them Spyderco, Cold Steel etc). He couldn't understand why people would choose VG-10 over AUS-8 for larger outdoor knives. AUS-8 is considerably tougher and easier to sharpen than VG-10 and it doesn't chip as easily.
I get the appeal of the super steels for smaller knives that need to do a lot of cutting into tough, abrasive stuff. However, as you said - a carbon steel or low alloy stainless sharpens right up when it gets dull. Just the other week I hit my machete against a rock while removing a stump - the heavily impacted edge was fixed with a few minutes of filing and a few passes on the whetstone.
Well said absolutely spot on, so much easier to work with a softer steel as opposed to a hard one, you know like you said it's all down to the fun aspect and time consuming fixing isn't fun.
Exactly Lewis!
Kyle Noseworthy - Weiderfan 👍👍👍👍
You are quite right. I think the same. Victorinox steel for example is a great steel.
Your video is a breath of fresh air. (Though I do admit to being a bit sniffy about the steel in Swiss Army knives!)
A really nice and relevant video, even five years later. I hand-sharpen knives for a living, and I mostly use three knives: a stainless Mora Companion HD for heavy duty work, a Victorinox Locksmith for everyday usage, and a SOG Terminus XR in S35VN for bragging rights and because its action is so damn fidgety and fun. Each one of them works pretty fine in my opinion.
I agree 100% man. I've done the transition... Worked my way up to the "super steels", and with how hard I am on my knives and how I do my own repairs/sharpening, I pretty quickly rotated back to some "softer" stuff LOL
Very good point! (Not a pun). I agree and usually carry something in 1095 for my everyday carry because it's easy to touch up. Thanks for an informative video.
haha thanks bud! 1095 is a great steel!
I see this video is a year old but I agree with you. If you still have guys looking to get rid of there lesser steel knives in Canada especially Spyderco’ s send them to me.
When you watch people rank knife steels it’s rarely mentioned about ease of sharpening, probably because adding that to their charts would lower the desirability of many super steels. I don’t mind sharpening often if it’s easy.
Great video! I agree 100%! I own 50+ knives (AUS8, ATS34, Pakistan steel, S30V, etc.) but my Opinel and Victorinox are the knife that get the most pocket time and I keep them always razor sharp. Very happy with my old 940 Osborne in 154CM and my Endura in VG-10. However I'm trading my VG-10 Delica for the same knife in ZDP-189... just out of curiosity!
Buck does a hell of a heat treat. Their 420 is top notch. However, some of us are collectors. But the term "super steel" is not as super to us average dudes. Maintenance is everything. Blade hq, knifeworks, Gp knives, are part of this sprint mentality. I tend to gravitate towards anything made by crucible but that's because I like American made products and collection purposes. But you are right. 420 hc by buck is a monster steel. Heat treat, blade geometry and purpose are more important than an over priced bohler m390 or cpm magnecut.
Well said Glad you finally got your head out of the steel snob clouds haha
hhaha
I sharpen everything with diamond stones, strop with diamond compound, and the time difference is negligible, if any. There's a great article on knifegrinders where you can see why you shouldn't use stones for high vanadium powdered steels. You're basically tearing away the steel matrix and chipping off the vanadium instead of evenly abrading it with diamonds.
I totally agree with you. It’s nice to have some of the super steals but 14 C BD1N nitro v 440c are some of my favorites
I like my Victorinox "Farmer" has stainless blades and my Ontario Rat 1 with D2 steel. The Victorinox will sharpen very fast and razor sharp, the Ontario a little more work with the d2 but it stays sharp for a good long time. Nice video. Ray, Oklahoma
I agree with you. My favorite Knife is my 11 Euro Hultafors GK 380020 Carbonsteel Knife, easy to sharpen, and if you hit a stone or something, never mind, the Knife takes it as a man ;) I also have a 300 Euro Knife, but do not use it, because i am afraid, i damage it, so it is only to look at, not to use it. ;)
I needed to watch this.
Thank you Sir.
Great video that makes a good point. As others have said the progress in steel composition technology in the last 100 years has been monumental and no doubt we are living in the hay-day of knife steels but your observation that 'super steels' are not always the best option for every job is an important one.
Many people would be surprised at how much real world use you can get from the budget and intermediate steels between sharpening sessions and how much easier they are to sharpen when the time comes. There are practical uses for super steels and so they have their place but it's not a case of the harder/tougher/more wear resistant a blade is the better it is.
As with everything in life it's about choosing the right tool for the job and striking a good balance. My collection is riddled with M390, 20CV, Elmax, LC200N, 3V, XHP, S110,90,30 and so on, some friends are sometimes surprised to see 8Cr13MoV, 440c, 12C27, 4116 and 1095 in there too. Its about options, and truth be told the budget steels are more frequently the preferable option for the job.
As a knife maker I disagree about 70%.
A moderate amount of snobbery is essential if you want superior experience in field use. But where I agree is at a certain point super steel differences get over valued.
With proper skill and knowhow a blade can be honed or resharpened without much time. It's far less time lost doing a 10 minute sharpening 1 time than a 5 minute sharpening 3 times. If ReSharpening is the hold back, practice ReSharpening.
It depends on how much work you need out of a knife. And are you a collector or a user, primarily. Having 1 $200 dollar knives is cheaper than 10 $30 dollar knives.
To be clear I enjoyed the video and believe some good points were made.
I do love good steel having said that I also agree with you.... I have some knifes I don't like to use because I Dred pulling out the stone and some I don't mind at all to use cause they sharpen easy and quick
While i do appreciate my high end steels, i also love my buck 110 in 440 c and my 8cr13mov budget steels. Cts bd1 is one of my favorites so i fully agree. Good vid subject
I completely agree with you I carry a small Case knife or an S A K , every day to do my small chores with. They return to a great edge quicky .For my large tactical knifes I like S30 V or C P M 154 in my line of work I use the larger knife for a very few things so touching them up is usually easy .
The knife steels are often rated by blade retention, so one can easily succumb to the belief that the higher the blade retention, the better the steel. I think the better gauge is USEAGE. My ESSE 6 with 1095 works great in the woods, and my Gerber Gator's 154CM is fine for my work knife. However, my EDC is usually the Cold Steel Recon S35VN, Benchmade M390, or Kizlyar D2. They all have their purpose.
I have become more fond of Aus8, D2, VG10 for their ease of sharpening. I always look at the steel before buying a knife and the intended use. Nor do I fret over a carbon blade rusting, as I simply run a lubricant over it occasionally, just as we always did with a blued barrel rifle after hunting.
While there are some new super strrls coming out, not many ppl knowa how to sharpen those hard ass steels.
Kyle, I think that black Victorinox is a 'Climber.' Great knife.
I'm kind of a 5160 guy. Or 154CM. Or S35V. But D2 is nice...and I kinda like S3V...and 1095. Luv my Buck 110's! Oh, those are 420HC...and S30V...... I'd love a SAK made with a Blue Hitachi steel knife blade, but in the meantime, I'll just carry my Climber.
I agree to a certain level. I sharpen my own knives and I still gravitate towards steels VG10 or better. I am more for having an edge last me a while than having to touch up or sharpen lower end steels regularly. At the same time, there’s a niche for each blade steel (edc, buchcraft, survival, ect..) To each their own. 👍🏼
I'm from Canada and I'm mad that I don't get a cool accent lol.
Any high carbon tool steels are my personal preference. I do appreciate, own and use super steels but nothing compares to a nice carbon blade with a nice patina. Oh and wooden scales. But that's me.
I agree 101% !!! Thank you! I have a modest collection of knives/blades/etc. All over the spectrum. One of my buddies is very well-off and *extremely* into blades. He gifted me a Benchmade pocket knife ... it's 154CM , now that model is only made with S30V but is considerably more expensive .. but still, a Mini-Griptilian is a small, folding pocket knife that was like $125+ and yes, the 154CM is absolutely great steel (S30V even more premium of course) ... but some of Benchmade's fixed blades are $450+ ... a $48 Gerber does a lot of the same things for me ... and I don't at all understand the people who - for example I just saw a guy ABSOLUTELY ABUSE a Gerber Ultimate Survival (7Cr17MoV) - I mean he *beat the shit* out of it, and it finally breaks after he puts it through the roof of a car dozens of times AND PURPOSEFULLY tries to bend and break it- and then pronounces it "a piece of shit" - Sure seemed like you just proved how freaking good it is! And if you are actually ever in a situation where your knife is your life, it's hard for me to believe people are going to be like "Man I hate this cheap Chinese stainless steel knife I bought for a great price! It's just not helping me Survive enough, I should have went with S30V..." Getttttt the fuck outta here. Anyway thanks.
Love that east coast accent
I can't afford the fancy steels. Most expensive steel I have is s 30v. Now I don't have to sharpen it as often but it's something I can do. Being retired time is secondary. I have one knife i haven't had to snarpen in years (Kershaw Black horse) &don't even know what kind of steel it is. Back then it wasn't important. Takes a good edge though. Steel is less important than its ability to do the job and its cost. I also am careful with the blades and try not to whittle on nails and strips of metal
You hit the nail on the head with this and also earned a sub!!
I think its fun to try new steels. Just getting into them now but I find a huge part of the fun of getting a new knife is trying the steel. Of course I want a good 1095 or better in the backcountry where sharpening isnt so easy, but aside from that I agree totally; you can just sharpen your knife. M390 and S35VN make great fixed blades for prolonged rough use without a good sharpening, imo
Geometry is far more important than steel composition as is heat treat. Geometry first, heat treat 2nd and steel 3rd. Proper for the task at hand Geometry is what truly makes or breaks a knife.
The best in your collection is the 2 fixed blades 5160, and the carbon and the best folding knife would be the sanvik, spideco, and the buck.
Yeah why do you think esee knives still use 1095 high carbon steel because it works and you can sharpen it in the field
If you put a razor edge on a knife the faster it will get dull.
I’ve been thinking that for the longest time but don’t have enough knifes to have an opinion on it
Rocking my every day carry 6 rotation folders, all are D2, 8C13MOV, 440C, K110 none cost more than $45.00. All hold a good edge and super easy to sharpen and amazing mechanical, i never envy high end steel knives. Have 2 high end knives in my collection i never use because of fear of dropping, losing or damaging the blades.
For my hunting knives I prefer 3v, S30v and similar steels. As you know a moose hide will dull your knife edge in no time at all. As for EDC, you cant go wrong with bucks 420HC. Easy to touch up with a strop or ceramic rod. Just my two cents. Enjoy.
It has gotten a lot worse. How about the other important questions? Is the handle comfortable? Is the geometry good for what you will be using it for?
I hear ya Kyle, it's always about the next best thing, with all these steels on the market what's next, the Lightsaber? I have carried a Condor Bushlore for years, 1075 steel easy to maintain as long as I keep it dry, I was saving money for a $500 custom knife and my wife said one day that if she bought a knife that expensive she would probably either leave it home or carry it and never use it for fear of loss or damage, and I feel she is right that is exactly what I would do, I would wear it so people could see that I have a expensive custom knife but it would be a show and tell piece not a tool, thanks for the videos I love your channel and your love of axes! If they do come out with a Lightsaber though, I will probably buy it, LOL.
Day to day is far more demanding than your high end knives will probably see. On the farm, we skin 10 to 12 animals a year, cut miles of baling twine, ream hundreds of pvc pipes, carve thousands of dollars worth of clamshell, cut thousands of zip ties, then hunt and camp three times. I too believe the real super steels are the ones you can afford to do all of this with.
So glad that you made this video! Couldn’t agree more with you!
Thanks Kyle Noseworthy!
Just got a Rough Ryder bigfoot (buck 110 like knife) in a 440A steel. Great little pocket knife for $12. Super easy to sharpen around a camp fire at night. And the edge retention is very surprising.
Think the heat treatment is a major factor that goes undiscussed when people get in the weeds about steel types. Basically comes down to the manufacturer. And the only way to find out there is just to read reviews.
I still love some of my old Solingen steel knives, a dream to sharpen and use.
Jerold im also a fan of Solingen.