@@danielpaulrowell simple. Brainwashing. Zionists funded adding darby and scofield’s notes to the kjb bible in 1909 and gave them away by the millions into seminaries and baptist churches thus corrupting most churches in america. Brown is right on post-trib but wrong staying dispensational on some level.
Im a Saved by God's Wonderful Grace Christian! Pre, Mid or Post Tribulation Catching Up, means nothing to me!! Im excited about Knowing il be with God the Father, Jesus the Son and God the Holy Spirit for ALL eternity 🎉
Love your persistence to keep this issue in the forefront! I see nothing wrong with the points you present. So many people that believe that they will be raptured and have nothing to stand on but the teaching of modern day preachers and wrong application of scripture. Great programs.
We shouldn't compromise the truth. Yes I say we shouldn't divide ourselves from brothers and sisters who say pre trib but the truth is the truth and we shall speak truth for it is the light it is life it is the word it is Jesus.
Ephesians 6:13-14 “Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness…” It is interesting that truth is worn like a belt. Belts were used to gird one’s loins to prepare oneself for work or battle. You can only stand on or for something if you know the truth about it. If you don’t know or believe that you must withstand in the evil day, you are less likely to take a stand. Hebrews 10:35-39 Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,… Matthew 13:20-21 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Dr Brown I tend to agree with you on the post-trib rapture I believe in Matthew chapter 24 Jesus pretty well laid it out and explained that the end won't come until certain things take place. It says that there will be a great falling away could it be that this falling away occurs because of the teaching of a pre-trib rapture and people lose hope. What would be the point of the days being shortened for the sake of the elect if the elect had already been raptured.
"What would be the point of the days being shortened for the sake of the elect if the elect had already been raptured." The elect isn't just for the church; it applies to all who will be in eternity-Angels, Old Testament saints, Tribulation martyrs, and all those who survive the tribulation period.
Well since Dr Brown seems to have issues calling Benny Hinn a false teacher, I don't give much credence to his opinions on matters of our faith. I was Amillenial for my first 50 years and being a dispensationalist cleared up so much confusion. I am a pre-trib rapture individual and think the points on the matter is very strong.
"being a dispensationalist cleared up so much confusion" That's the thing I don't understand about Christians who reject dispensationalism, it just puts everything into logical order.
PRE-TRIBBERS, CAN YOU ANSWER MY ONE QUESTION? How can I be ALIVE AND REMAIN at the SECOND COMING, if I have already been RAPTURED and GONE in some pre-tribulation rapture?
@@biblehistoryscience3530 Yes, Paul puts the rapture AFTER (hence the word THEN as the first word in the verse) the dead in Christ rising first. If you ask me the Harpazo and resurrection are the same thing the way Paul wrote this. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 said “Yes, Paul puts the rapture AFTER (hence the word THEN as the first word in the verse) the dead in Christ rising first.” Paul did not put the rapture after the resurrection. He put the snatching-away after the resurrection, all of which is part of what we now call the rapture because the Greek word _harpazo_ (“snatch away”) is not equivalent to the modern theological term rapture. And the rapture now refers a whole sequence of events, starting with the Father informing the Son that the time has come to take his bride home, and ending with celebrations of their arrival in Heaven. In 1 Cor 15:52, Paul said that in a moment, a trumpet will sound and the dead shall rise and the living be changed, and he repeated this in 1 Thess 4:16-17, saying the Lord will descend with an angel's shout and the dead shall rise first, then those who are living shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 What are you trying to say Bible? I'm not saying Paul put the rapture AFTER the resurrection. I am saying the rapture is part of the resurrection as Paul makes it all ONE event in 1st Thess. 4:13-18. He doesn't divide it up over long periods of times. He puts both right before the return of Jesus' physically to earth which is what parousia means int he greek. check out the word REMAIN in the greek. It means survive. If we are not going to have to go through great tribulation, then the passage is meaningless and makes no sense. 1st Cor. and 1st Thess. was written to Gentile believers who thought they were the last generation due to the great persecution they were under. I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or trying to say something but having a hard time saying it in how you wrote it.. There is only one bride made up of Jew and Gentile. The gospel went to the Jews first adn then to the Gentiles. One bride. God is not a polygamist.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 said “am saying the rapture is part of the resurrection as Paul makes it all ONE event in 1st Thess. 4:13-18.” Paul did not say it all makes one event and that event is the resurrection. He talked about a few things that happen in quick succession, including the Lord descending from heaven to the clouds, and the resurrection of the dead into glorified bodies along with living saints being glorified, and their being caught-up to meet Jesus in the clouds, and living saints rising to meet them all in the air. You said “He doesn't divide it up over long periods of times.” I don’t know of anyone who divides all these events into long periods of time. Paul says it all happens in the twinkling of an eye. You said “He puts both right before the return of Jesus' physically to earth which is what parousia means int he greek.” While Paul said we would be with Jesus always after being caught-up to him, he did not mention the Lord returning to the earth at this time. Paul didn’t say where we were going, but Jesus did in John 14:1-3 where he promised to go prepare a place for believers in his Father’s house and return to receive us there so that we could be with him where he was going, Heaven. And the fact that all of these things happen in a flash (from Jesus’ descending to the clouds to our going up to him) proves that Paul could not have been talking about the second coming because the parable of wheat and tares says that Armageddon happen before the saints are gathered to Jesus. In other words, the Lord cannot appear and rapture the saints in the blink of an eye and then touch down and fight Armageddon, then cast everyone who took the mark of the beat in the Lake of Fire, and then imprison Satan, AND not contradict that parable. And Rev 19-20 is a witness to this sequence of events because it shows the glorified church at the marriage supper of the Lamb in Heaven then returning with Jesus at his second coming, then Armageddon, and saints aren’t ingathered until the first of two resurrections in Rev 20, which is after all the events I just mentioned are completed. And the word _parousia_ just means “being present, arrival”. You said “check out the word REMAIN in the greek. It means survive. If we are not going to have to go through great tribulation, then the passage is meaningless and makes no sense.” The Greek word _zao_ that’s usually translated as “alive” in 1 Thess 4:17 does not mean “to survive” but “to live,” and Paul used it here to contrast those who had died in Christ with saints who remain alive until his appearing. You said “God is not a polygamist.” Nobody is suggesting that God is a polygamist. God taught this betrothal metaphor of his Son to his church, and just because he made the offer to the Jew first and then the Gentile does not negate that fact.
This is very unfortunate, as is with most of us humans who contain this “treasure”, we can allow our own perspectives cloud the brightest star. When I hear someone say “well I was raised in a Church that taught”, and then they continue on with their “schooled” opinions I “take pause” immediately. I realize to the person proclaiming that, it seems to somehow give them more “cred” with their differing opinions. I have heard time and time again those who have been hurt, or who in search of the Bible, have gone to Seminary or some other “higher learning” of scriptures say Tongues is not for us today and there is no such thing, it is only carnal or even demonic. Then, these people will always tell of their experience and how they no longer believe what they once did after “researching the scripture”. Of course these things at times can be true that we are taught wrong things by good and well meaning people, or by those who are not well meaning. But it in “my opinion” how you were raised, good or bad, gives no validity to the truth of the scripture. So therefore, I go to the scriptures and to the Holy Spirit for understanding. I have researched my Bible as much as most “students” of higher learning, but usually without so much of the “other documents” they too research along with the Bible. Again I would say sometimes this could be a benefit, but more times than not it is not. Many or most after such “thorough research” come away with fallacies concerning the Holy Spirit and His gift. And with many of them they like to point out some things in the teaching of those they were early on inspired by, that was not scriptural, to refute what is scriptural but they do not have revelation from God on. I will not go into some of the fallacies on speaking in Tongues, because that does not give any substance to the truth about what the Bible says and what I experience daily. Having said that, I have listened to the “debate” of Pre-trib and the such, it is obvious to me without much teaching either way that pre-tribulation is the only view that collectively fits into what the scriptures say to “common” people such as myself. I appreciate you Dr. Brown, but I so disagree with your approach in this particular subject. Many of the arguments you present I could as easily argue against that view, with the same type of explanation you give for your view. In other words there is so much in scripture that without the Holy Spirit giving us clear interpretation, we can easily think it is the treasure in us speaking when it is us the container. Now having said that I do believe our spirits are a new creation in Christ when born again of the Spirt, but the container of our spirit, can easily be affected or deceived by our mind and flesh, which can have more influence than we are aware of when we give it more “cred” than we should. Respectfully I think many well studied men and women in the “higher learning” of scripture need to do what I understand one of the greatest Greek scholars of all time did, who refuted the gifts of healings and the baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in Tongues. He was led by God to take a year or so off soul searching through the Bible without, as much as is possible, without using any “presuppositions”. P.C. Nelson I believe was his name. People can search and search scripture day and night and still come up with erroneous opinions, especially when it is backed up and credited by well studied individuals we look up to. I believe it truly takes an emptying of ourselves, for true revelation by the Holy Spirit to verify and solidify truth in us. Please do not misunderstand me, I truly by trade am only a Carpenter-in the true sense, and I have learned things from you Dr. Brown that as I listened to you, prayed about it, and went to the scriptures I so love, have grown in certain areas. I do not believe in “throwing the baby out with the bath water” here, but I strongly disagree, sir. And to be further honest with you as a human being and a born-again Christian, all of me would prefer the Pre-trib over the other offerings people interpret. Just as I prefer believing in the “healing” Jesus promises me, and being able to pray and worship in Tongues, gaining depths in my sprit by the Holy Spirit, which I also know the Bible teaches. But if it was actually a Post-trib experience, it will not change my relationship with Jesus for Jesus’ relationship with me has already changed me!
THERE IS NO ARGUMENT!!! Yeshua himself says - Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Matthew 24.29) Either we adhere to what Christ says, or we keep on holding to our own dogmas and indoctrinations.
@@transformationofthebride2295 Please read to understand Matthew 24 - 31 29Immediately After the TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other . (Rapture) Did you notice the 4 horsemen in Revelation 6? That's the Great Tribulation in progression... Verse 12 begins the harvest or Rapture.
@@seedfarmer0416 The great tribulation time marker is with the abomination of desolation and NOT with the "beginning of sorrows". As I said you need to connect the passages of the Scripture together. Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 and Daniel 12:1 describes this event. We need to consider the whole Scripture in arriving to an understanding. God bless you.
I understand where you are coming from, we all like to fit a square peg in a round hole in order to to make our church dogmas true. But sometimes you can only grasp new things by letting go of what's in your hands. God didn't make his word difficult to understand, the same reason why he never used the philosophers of those days to reveal his Words... but instead he used the simple men. Buddy, you have to let go of your church doctrines whenever the Bible is saying differently... because the Bible is our ultimate source. Moreso Yeshua himself TOLD us, his return will be AFTER THE TRIBULATION forewarned in verses before verse 29 of Matthew 24.. Its the season that prompts a harvest....it's the waters that prompted the movement of the Ark from its completion to its final destination..... and it's the wrath of the dragon (Satan, Rev 12) that will be the catalyst for the harvest (Rapture) of the Church. Paul confirmed this in 2 Thessalonians 2.3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(Rapture day) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin(Antichrist) be revealed, the son of perdition; And the Antichrist ushers in the Great Tribulation. There were 10 virgins says Yeshua.... 5 wise... 5 foolish.... choose the group you prefer.... Shalom.
@@transformationofthebride2295 Christ even prepared us ahead in general in John 16.33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION : but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. He never said EXCEPT for the Tribulation of the Antichrist. But there is one exception that he made in 1 Thessalonians 5.9.- For God hath not appointed us to WRATH , but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, And God's wrath commences the same day that we are harvested (raptured). That is why we will be in heaven by the 6th seal of Rev 6.
At the moment, I also don't think the rapture is pre tribulation BECAUSE Jesus gives a parable (MATTHEW 13) of angels going down to earth to separate "the wheat and tares" and Jesus explains this is the angels separating the righteous from the wicked to hell "at the end of the age." I then believe the famous pre tribulation rapture verse by Jesus of "one is taken and the other left"(Matthew 24) isn't the good that is taken in "the rapture" but it is the wicked taken by the angels and thrown into hell which perfectly aligns with Matthew 13 I previously mentioned. So when you start to look at all of these rapture verses through the lens of Jesus" parable of angels separating the "wheat and tares"/"Righteous and wicked", you start to see the uniformity of this all happening when Jesus comes back to rule and reign and finally establish his government on the earth "at the end of the age". Some people believe the rapture has to occur before the tribulation because if Christians are still around, the earth won't get as wicked as the Bible describes in revelation. However, I believe that is incorrect because in Noah's day people still became very wicked. Today with the internet, peak oil, and overpopulation, the world will inevitable incur much turmoil, death, and wickedness due to starvation due to overpopulation and peak oil, the internet/hollywood will still pump out satanic values of "do as thou wilt", and globalization/tech will create a huge gap of have and have nots that all of this unrest you see in the Bible is easy to see happening just due to our world society's current trajectory.
Lisa Boulier Jesus never spoke of a "pretrib rapture" and he even says that his coming is Matthew 24:29 Immediately After the tribulation. The very first thing Jesus warns you of is MANY coming in his name DECEIVING MANY!
You don't really believe the "overpopulation" myth, do you? It's the same as the "global warming " myth and the "climate change" myth. Lies perpetrated by the enemy in order to kill off the population not just by abortion but also infanticide and the older folks.
I don't argue about this with anyone. This shouldn't be anything to argue or even debate. The point is to be ready. Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib...🤷♀️
dpos89 That’s in reference to the Catholic Church and their Antichrist “New World Order Religion” also They are drunk with the Blood of Martyrs. The Romans crucified Christ at the behest of the Jews.
There will be "saints" on earth during the Tribulation just like in the OT, but they are not necessarily the Chrurch per se. Pretribers believe these saints are the elect Tribulation saints from Israel and the Gentiles who will repent after the Church is raptured.
I'm glade to see others really testing to see if what is popularly taught in churches about the Lord's return and our gathering back to Him if it's scripturally based or not. I think that most Christians don't realize the importance of the truth on this subject and I would like to use one example in scripture to show why this is. Consider the time of Noah before the flood and answer a couple of simple questions. Was Noah instructed by God of what judgement was coming on the earth? Answer Yes. Was Noah instructed by God what to do to prepare for that event? Answer Yes. Did Noah remain faithful and do all that God instructed him? Answer Yes. Was Noah saved by following faithfully God's instruction? Answer Yes. Dose the flood represent the great tribulation or the wrath of God upon the wicked? Answer the wrath of God. Noah already lived through his time of tribulation while building the ark and preaching to the evil world of the judgement to come. Now consider if Noah did not do these things that God instructed, would he have been saved from the wrath? Answer No. Simply put, to apply this to our time now and how it can effect our decision making choices believing in a pre-trib rapture example (1). You will likely not see a need to prepare as Noah did through his time of tribulation and the future events to come, because you believe you won't be here. (2). Concerning financial decisions, you won't see a need to manage your money and your plans concerning it in the midst of a tribulation scenario. For example you could more likely max out your credit cards and make purchases that you may not normally make because you believe you won't be here to have to pay it off. (3). From the perspective of a Christian living in America, You won't see a need to prepare for the judgement of God on America and what to do about it. (4) you won't likely recognize from the examples in the bible and the scripture teachings what you are instructed by God what to do about it. For that information check out ( Lion and Lamb Ministries) they will show you where in the bible we are instructed to do to prepare. Now consider the parable of the sower and the seed that was cast on rocky soil, it sprang up quickly symbolic of ( becoming a believer) but had no real root in symbolic of (the word of God) to endure the sun, symbolic of (tribulation and persecution) and the effect of that according to scripture (they fall away) because of tribulation and persecution. Finally I would encourage you to read Matt 24 from the perspective of only two comings of Jesus Christ. This should show you that Jesus actually warns against a early return in verses 23-28. Dose Jesus warn of false teachings of the subject last things (eschatology) answer yes specifically verses 3-5. Dose Jesus tell of us of the signs and events that happen before he comes? Answer Yes. Read Matt 24 and make a list of the prophecies that are not yet fulfilled that must happen first. It is also helpful to understand what scripture means of we will not know the day or hour of His return, that refers to the exact day and hour not to the things that must happen first before HE comes. Consider Stephan in Acts 7 it was time for him to return to the Lord and he looked up and saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. The doctrine of eminence is simply this, either we return to the Lord if we die before he comes or we survive and live when He comes 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Corr 15:50-58 at the sound of the (last trump) compare Rev 11:15 and compare that to Zec 9:10
At 20:00 Jesus clearly ties the parable of the 10 virgins to the parable of the talents where the unprofitable servant is cast into "outer darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth". So if you say that parable is representing the "rapture "then you have to say those "left behind" go to hell.
It's interesting. When I studied this many years ago I interpreted Isaiah 26:20-21 the opposite way - as referring to the same thing as John 14:2-3 for the Chrurch. In other words, the church will be hidden by Jesus through the rapture in the rooms of their "mansions" in heaven where the Father is. Also, many end-time propehcy teachers point out that the John 14 motif is a Jewish one, the Jewish man goes away to his father's house to prepare a room there for him and his bethroed. Where is the Father's house? In heaven. When will the bethroed church be raptured? - when the wedding is near - not when they die!! Jesus clearly says that He would come and bring them to the Father's house just as in the Jewish motif. So John 14:1-3 is not referring to the death of the believer. It's the rapture of the Bride (bethroed/"fiancé") in preparation for the wedding in Heaven and to avoid the wrath of the Father that will be poured out on earth, since the Bride is not apointed to the Father's wrath.
Post trib.... Go up to meet the Lord in the air then come straight back to the earth? What's the point of meeting him in the air if he[the Lord] comes to the earth...makes no sense
It boils down to either the Messiah is coming to touch his feet on the mount of olives then sit on the throne of David judging the nations for a thousand years or the entire Bible is a joke and full of lies.
@@davidroberts3262 Well, I go up on a plane even though I know it will still land on Earth because I know when it lands it will be a different place than from where I was. There is a need for me to get to another place and the place is the means for me to get there. But, is there a need for people to go to or to be another place when the Rapture happens?
Dr Brown answers this in the video. When one meets a coming dignitary, one greets him at the gate, or as he's arriving, and then one accompanies him back to town for his visit.
Some also say that in the rapture Jesus doesn't set foot on the earth but hovers on the clouds to meet us and in the second coming Jesus steps on the land. What are your thought on that?
Dr. Brown, may i begin by saying how much i think of you. You are not only a brilliant mind, but also a good soul. And you know, you may be totally right about a Pre-Trib Rapture. But allow me to bring a few things to light. Now i should mention, up until a few years ago, i never really gave much credence to the idea. But as i examined scripture, and ironically not just those verses concerning a supposed a Rapture, i found myself wondering. Now to express my thoughts, may i remind you of the difficulty many in rabbinic circles have had regarding the coming of Messiah. As i am well aware that you know, many rabbis have had a hard time wrapping their minds around how He could come lowly and humbly, and yet come in the clouds with great glory. According to their interpretation, in order for the scriptures to be valid, many concluded that there would have to be TWO messiahs. Now we, as believers, know that it is not two individuals coming, but rather one coming twice. Even during His time on Earth, the majority missed His appearance even when He was right there in front of them. So my long winded point is, much in scripture depends on interpretation. And even the most learned amongst us can miss things due to our own way of seeing things. Now could you be right? Of course. But could the Pre-Tribers be onto something? Perhaps. One thing that makes me wonder is the great number of individuals who have had dreams concerning the Rapture. Again, could this just be the result of overly anxious individuals? Certainly. But God did say in Joel that in the latter days he would pour out his spirit. And that many would have dreams and visions. One point you brought up before, regarding some of the verses in question, is that when Messiah was speaking to His disciples, He was only speaking to His disciples and not future generations. And again, you may be right. But take me for example. i am a teacher/instructor with the military. But there are often times when answering one student's question, i am actually speaking in hopes that ALL my students hear my words. Although i am, at face value, seemingly addressing only one individual student, when in reality i am speaking to all of them. In hopes they might all learn my lesson. In the end, who is right? Something tells me, my very gifted and intellectual brother, we shall all find out sooner than later. God bless and may HaShem continue to shine down on you, Dr. Brown. Shalom aleichem...from Canada. ALWAYS.
Posttrib believers don't deny a rapture, just the timing of the rapture. Therefore, rapture dreams really have no bearing on one's stance on the timing of the rapture. People have been having rapture dreams for years...decades or even longer...and yet no rapture has happened as yet. Who knows how much longer we have to wait. But one thing is for certain, it won't happen until after the tribulation and the revealing of the AC. People's dreams don't override Jesus' word, if they contradict what he says then it is obvious their dream wasn't from God. Read Jeremiah 23.
I really enjoy dr.brown,even if my theology on eschatology is slightly different then his🙂 Concerning the absence of the pre tribulation teaching in history,it is correct to say that most of the early church fathers were post tribulation in there view,(although bishop Victorinus preached a pre tribulation rapture in the third century).But the pre tribulation teaching was one of the very first doctrines that the church lost very early in her existence.She also lost God’s promises to Israel very early on as well and started to hold to the view that God was finished with Israel,and that the church had replaced Israel.This also lead to the church turning from her belief in the pre Millennium return of Christ to earth to establish His Kingdom for a 1000 years(even though she had held to this doctrine for the first 300 years of her existence).But the Scripture is the believer’s Absolute Authority and not church history.And although the church has suffered horrendously throughout her existence,Jesus has promised(prophetically speaking)to keep us,the church,from the very hour of trial (the tribulation period)that shall come upon the whole world,to test those who dwell upon the earth-Revelation 3:10.The tribulation period is the time of Jacob’s(Israel’s)trouble,not the church-Jeremiah 30:7,Daniel 12:1,Matthew 24:21📖✝️
ROSE! I am one of those that believe what Christ says.. and He WANTS what you want. So.... KNOW HE hears you. He will give you the desires of your heart.. does HE say these things? Does He say.. if YOU and ME agree as ONE.. the Father will answer? Then KNOW what you have asked.. He has already been setting in motion.. He knew this before you asked.. And THINK! Where would such a thought come from? YEAH! Him! You WILL get a peace about this! Don't worry don't doubt for I AGREE in prayer with you. Jesus will come for us.. we need ot be watching and ready NOW! My wife believes the same.. yet.. WOW praise GOD I never even wondered before... pfft women are always a head of the curve! :) delight your self in the lord and HE will give you the desires of your heart! If you know He hears you you KNOW you have the petitions/prayers you asked for. His WILL is HIS WORD. DONT LET ANYONE rob you of what YOUR FATHER aka GOD..HELLO! Says... He is FOR YOU not against you.. HE LOVES TO GIVE! So... the one you want IS coming!
Dr Michael I believe the fall feast will be fulfilled just like the spring feasts were. In the sequence of days they had been observed for oer a thousand years. What they teach about the feast of trumpets beginning a 7 year wedding I reject. I believe the feast of tabernacles actually pictures the wedding. And the ten days of awe correspond to "hide yourself for 10 days"
Most post tribulation brethren may be unaware off the fact that some post tribulationist’s also believed in a two stage return of Christ,albeit,after the tribulation period.Joseph Mede believed in a two-stage pre-conflagration return of Christ based on his interpretation of 1 Peter 3:10.I simply say this just to let you see that pre tribulationist’s are not the only ones to believe in a two stage second coming of Christ📖✝️🙂
Not Afraid of the Antichrist is a great book! Pre trib doctine never made sense when I read Matt 24, Mark 13, and 2 Thess 2... Glad to learn about Historical Premillenilism and how scriptually solid this belief is.
No one can understand the prophesies without taking into consideration that the rapture was a hidden mystery until the Holy Spirit began revealing it thru Paul, and God hides mysteries in plain sight using things like parables and metaphors. Since Matt 24:29-31 was written in plain language before the mystery began to be revealed, it cannot be about the rapture. On the other hand, Matt 24:26-28 shows the rapture before the great tribulation starts.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 the fact is that in both gospel accounts Jesus clearly states after the tribulation in those days he will physically return and then the angles will gather the elect. These two references are clear and foundational for Post Trib belief. There is no scripture clearly showing a pre trib scenario. Pre trib can't even get off the ground. This belief is purely built on secondary arguements.
@@kgw3152 said “the fact is that in both gospel accounts Jesus clearly states after the tribulation in those days he will physically return and then the angles will gather the elect. These two references are clear and foundational for Post Trib belief.” Correct. The post-trib belief is founded on CLEAR sayings of Jesus, and many people believe this is clinching proof that post-trib is correct, but that’s because they ignore the facts that I already stated in my post. You said “There is no scripture clearly showing a pre trib scenario…This belief is purely built on secondary arguements.” The vast majority of rapture scriptures were written in veiled language because it was a hidden mystery of God until the Holy Spirit began revealing it thru Paul, and the vast majority of people never take this into account, so they stare right thru the truth every day. But Paul revealed the rapture mystery in plain language, and he taught the rapture rescue before the great tribulation in 2 Thess 2:1-8 by laying out the following sequence of events. Paul said he was writing to support the rapture that they should not fear as though the day of Christ was present because that day cannot come until the apostasy happens first and the man of sin manifests. BUT there is one now restraining him that will continue to do so until it’s taken away (literal Greek says _ginomai_ ‘is born/comes into being/rises’ out of the middle). That’s the rapture rescue before the great tribulation. I could cite other scriptures that show the rapture rescue before the great tribulation, but post-tribers reject them because they were written in veiled language. And that’s sadly ironic because it’s a clue that such scriptures are about a hidden mystery God, which is what the rapture is, so they could not be written any other way.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 thank you for your respectful response. I understand your point and continue to hold my view. Scripture admonished us not to go beyond what is written. I was Pre Trib for long time; I find Post Trib to be a more biblically sound doctrine. That said I guess we will find out at the end and laugh with joy in the presence of our Lord!
@@kgw3152, I also appreciate your civil attitude on this topic because many people aren’t, and I too used to be pre-trib, but then I read certain chapters over and over until the patterns emerged that led me to the rapture just days before the great tribulation starts. Here are some remarkable things for you to consider. In Matt 24:15-25, Jesus described the great tribulation and warned everyone to not believe it if they should say the Messiah is here or there. Then in verses 26-28, he warned them to likewise not believe rumors the Messiah has come but not manifested publicly yet (so these rumors will be told before the great tribulation starts), and this is where Jesus described his appearing like lightning and eagles gathering to the dead. This sounds like the rapture before the great tribulation, and it was told in veiled language before the hidden rapture mystery was revealed, so these are prime candidates for rapture verses. Then in Luke 17:22-37, Jesus answers a question about where people go when one is taken from a bed, a field and a mill while another is left behind, saying that eagles gather to the living. These verses also sound like the rapture and were told in veiled language, but what’s really amazing is that the two versions of the eagle metaphor describe the rapture of the dead and living in veiled language before Paul taught this in plain language in 1 Thess 4. There is another eagle metaphor in Rev 12:14-17 in which a woman (bride of Christ or church in the commonwealth of Israel) flies to her place (place that Jesus promised to prepare in his Father’s house and take her to) that’s safe from the serpent for 3.5 years (duration of the Antichrist’s reign during the great tribulation), then the dragon makes war (because the one restraining the man of sin has risen out of the middle) against the remnant of her seed (Jews) who keeps the commandments of God (because they will have built a new temple to keep the Mosaic Covenant, thus fulfilling Dan 9:27a) have the testimony of Jesus (because Rom 11:25 says they’re hardened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in). And Rev 7 shows this Israelite revival on earth while the raptured bride is welcomed into heaven, having just come away from (Greek _ek_ which lexicons show does not just mean “out of” but has a range of meanings) the great tribulation, thus fulfilling Jesus’ promise to keep some saints away from the time of testing that’s coming on the whole inhabited world to try everyone on earth.
PreTrib Rapture? How much of what we believe comes from Biblical facts? How much derives from what is going on in our intellect? How much comes from the heart? How much comes from emotional issues of fear vs. faith, and the issue of our personal devotion? Yes, the devotional issue? How about the strange thing that happened at midnight, towards the end of the voyage of the Apostle Paul? Yes, what happened during the shipwreck on the island of Malta? And what does that issue of devotion to ”stay with the ship!” mean for us? see EndTimePilgrim.org/acts27.htm
Gavin Finley Fear is what the "pretrib rapture" is based on. Unlike the foundation of the faith were Christians ENDURED in the faith were by Christ is that ROCK anything else is the foundation of SAND!
Pre-tribbers contend that the 'Day of the Lord' is a period of time which marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Unfortunately for them, scripture teaches very clearly something quite different. IN Acts (Peter quoting Jeremiah), says that the 'sun turns dark and the moon to blood, BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD COMES'. In Jesus Olivet discourse he says that, 'After the tribulation of those days,...THE SUN SHALL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, MOON TURNED TO BLOOD'. The Day of the Lord clearly takes place after the tribulation of those days. Once an understanding of The Day of the Lord is clarified, the argument is over. There is no pre-tribber on the planet who is able to reconcile this at all...
There is no pretrib rapture. The creatures from the bottomless pit with stingers do not sting those with the Seal of God on their foreheads. So those with the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God are on the Earth at the same time.
, Rom 11:25-26 prophesies that Jews will have revival after the rapture, and that is seen being fulfilled after the 6th Seal in Rev 7, where a great multitude of saints (wise virgins) are welcomed into heaven while down on earth we see Jews another others getting saved or finally repenting while the great tribulation is briefly held back. Therefore, the saints you talked about who don’t get stung are people who only got right with God after missing the rapture.
@@megan1445, there is good evidence in the gospels and epistles that shows the rapture happening before the great tribulation starts, and because many people interpret the White Horseman at the 1st Seal as the Antichrist coming with a peace treaty, which is then followed by war and famine and death, they believe the rapture happens 7 years before the end. I found good evidence that the Four Horsemen represent God’s judgement of Israel in the first century using the Romans to destroy Jerusalem and the Second Temple. The 5th Seal then represents what some call the church age or dispensation of grace. Then the rapture happens at the 6th Seal, so Rev 7 shows angels holding back the great tribulation during an Israelite revival on earth while raptured church saints celebrate their entry into heaven, and this fulfills Rom 11:25 which says Israel is hardened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. And the great tribulation starts at the 7th Seal. So, I believe in a mid-trib rapture. Some of the evidence I found to support this from the gospels includes the eagle metaphor in Matt 24:26-28 and Luke 17:37 which together show the snatching-away of dead and living people during a time when there will be rumors about the Antichrist, so it’s before the great tribulation. And that leads to an eagle metaphor in Rev 12:14 in which a woman flies to her place of safety from the serpent for 3.5 years, which shows a mid-trib rapture pretty clearly in my opinion. But this is just scratching the surface.
The rapture issue is really a simple matter that many people have greatly complicated over the years. How can it be simple? There are only 2 main scriptures you need to know. These are 1. Mt. 13:24-30 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed ears, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “`An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “`No,’ he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’“ The 1st clue is "Let both grow together until the harvest." When you know when that time is you will have the answer. Does the Bible tell us when the harvest will be? Yes. Where in scripture is it? 2. The book of Revelation chapter 14; Re. 14:14-20 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one “like a son of man” with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia. [That is, about 180 miles (about 300 kilometres)] The scripture in Matthew is a parable which is a story Jesus told to make a point. Every parable has truth in it even though some of the scenarios may not actually have happened exactly as described. So an explanation is needed. Mt. 13:10-17 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “`You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ [Isaiah 6:9,10] But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it". What about all the other scriptures about the rapture? Some are legitimate and some have nothing to do with it. This agrees with all the legitimate NT scriptures. I'll reference some here if you want to do further study: Mt. 24:30-31, I Th. 5:1-11, II Th. 2:1-12, I Co. 15:51-58.
“But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations.” Revelation 2:25-26 To keep His works until the end, one must continually abide in the doctrine of Christ. For those who hold fast and overcome, Jesus will give power over the nations. It will be a different fate for believers taking away from The Revelation of Jesus Christ. “And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:19 For those who do, God will take away their part in the Book of Life and the Holy City.
Doctrine……………. 1 Timothy 6:3 “If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;” Deuteronomy 32:2 “My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:” Proverbs 4:2 “For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.” Matthew 7:28 “And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:” John 7:16 “Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.” Deuteronomy 32:1 “Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth.” Bless you
Professor William C Watson has written an excellent academic work on dispensationalism and the retribulation rapture proving this teaching goes back before the 17th century and predates Darby. Primary sources are quoted from as far back as the 1300s. “Dispensationalism Before Darby” by William C Watson is a scholarly & thorough work disproving the myth that Darby invented this. And scripture is clear on the coming of the Bridegroom for His Bride. I challenge Dr Brown to read this work.
Would you like me to explain to you from the Bible why she is right? 1st John 4:1-3 says... "Dear friends , do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see if they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can know the Spirit of God : Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God but every spirit that DENIES that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God. This is the spirit of antichrist whom you have heard is coming and even now is in the world." How does this support a pre-trib rapture? John places great importance on Jesus coming in the flesh because that was the only way He could take our sin onto Himself as an acceptable offering before God the Father. But He also took something else on Himself on the cross...God's WRATH...the WRATH we deserved for our sin. So when anyone teaches and believes that the Church will go through the Tribulation , which IS the WRATH of God on all Christ rejectors, they are really saying that Jesus did not deal with our WRATH problem on the cross. In effect, they are DENYING that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is an attack on the person and work of Jesus Christ. Notice where John says that thinking comes from..."the spirit of antichrist"...the demonic. Jan Markel is right according to John. There is a second warning about this by John in 2nd John where he also says do not receive anyone who "does NOT have this doctrine of Christ" or you will be participating in their wickedness. The apostle Paul in writing to the Thessalonians on the topic of the rapture and Tribulation also supports what I have explained because he writes "You are NOT appointed unto WRATH" and notice the rest of the sentence , "but to obtain SALVATION through Jesus Christ our Lord". Right there, Paul ties the pre trib rapture right to the person and work of Jesus Christ on the cross where He dealt with our WRATH problem. I am not smart enough to have figured this out by myself...the Spirit of God showed it to me one day.
I think the scripture supports a post- trib pre wrath gathering back to the Lord. It's simply this, believers will be here through the (seals) and the (trumpets) after the seventh trumpet we are gathered back to the Lord to meet Him in the air and then the seven bowls or vials are poured out on the rest of the world, these happen in a rapid fire fashion in a time span of days rather than years. That helps explain the difference of days in Daniel 12 the 1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days. The danger of believing in any form of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture is you won't be prepared or think you don't have any actions to perform according to what the scripture warns or instructs us about. Common since in military strategies is the element of surprise attack on the unsuspecting enemy. Search what Cory tin boom a woman that lived through the holocaust and what pre-trib rapture preachers were telling their congregations back then = (don't worry we will be raptured up before anything like that happens) then it came. Imagine yourself in that reality, you would likely think that you were left behind and then you could fall away from the faith. She went on to say that pastors should prepare their flocks to endure much tribulation and persecution spiritually and physically. God Bless you!!!
Great to be able to discuss these issues with “meekness and fear(reverence)-1 Peter 3:15.🙂The pre tribulation rapture view teaches that the body of Christ,the church,has throughout its history suffered terrible persecution and tribulation,just as Jesus said she would-John 16:33,Acts 14:21-22.But we don’t believe that the church will go through the time of Jacob’s(Israel’s) trouble-Jeremiah 30:7,Daniel 12:1,Matthew 24:21. Also Jesus said to the religious officers of His day that He was”going to Him who sent Me”,”and where I am you cannot come”-John 7:33-34.But yet He said to His disciples,concerning His returning to the Father to prepare a place for us,”that where I am there you may be also.And if I go to prepare a place for you,I will come again and receive you to myself that where I am,(ie,the Father’s house in Heaven)there you may be also”-John 14:1-3.If we are not going to the Father’s house in Heaven when Christ comes for us then why is He away preparing a place for us? Also John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 are parallel passages.In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Christ is returning for His church,but in other second coming passages Christ is returning to deliver His covenant people Israel and to defeat God’s enemies-Zechariah 14,Revelation 19.Clearly 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Zechariah 14 are referring to two different phases of the same second coming.
That's one of the reasons I support the pre-wrath 6th seal rapture taking place at Revelation 7:9. There is a collection of believers, both the living and the dead, before the wrath of God commences. We see this in Isaiah 26:19-21 and is also depicted in the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25. They enter their "chambers" and the door is shut. Isaiah 26:20, Matthew 25:10. Connections to the examples of Noah and Lot with this too. Genesis 7:16, Genesis 19:10. But this collection or gathering does not take place at the beginning of the 7 year period, but closer to the end and before the Day of Vengeance. The exact day is unknown according to Jesus in Matthew 24:36, but will occur after the abomination of desolation, but before God's wrath in flaming fire from heaven. Luke 17:29-30 says that as Lot went out of Sodom on the same day as fire and brimstone rained down from heaven, even so will it be on the day the Son of Man is revealed from heaven. We see all these things take place in between Revelation 6:12 and Revelation 8:7 Revelation 6:16 Son of Man revealed from heaven Revelation 7:9 Believers removed from tribulation just like 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 Revelation 8:4-7 Fire and brimstone rain down from heaven The tribulation which begins at the start of the 70th week is not God's wrath. Revelation 6:16-17 and Isaiah 13:6-13 confirm God's wrath commences after the 6th seal with the signs in the sun, moon, and stars. Psalm 76:7-10 confirms with the same phrase found in Revelation 6:17, "who is able to stand?" That there is the wrath of man, followed by the wrath of God. A deliverance of all the oppressed or meek of the earth is also here in verse 9. Daniel 7:21-28 and Revelation 12:12-17 & 13:5-7 also confirm that the Great Tribulation which commences at the midpoint after the abomination of desolation is not God's wrath, but actually the exact opposite. The Great Tribulation will be cut short according to Jesus in Matthew 24:21-22 and will be cut short by the commencing of the Day of the Lord with signs in the sun, moon, and stars in Matthew 24:29 which match those in Revelation 6:12-14. The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 matches Revelation 7:9. The tribes of the earth mourning in Matthew 24:30 and Luke 21:26 matches those described in Revelation 6:15-17. It's important to recognize that the signs in sun, moon, and stars in all the Olivet Discourse passages: Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24 and Luke 21:25 do not describe Revelation 19, they are describing Revelation 6:12-14... and this Day is when God's wrath commences in flaming fire from heaven and "we" receive our rest as 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 and Luke 17:29-30 say. Jesus is revealed from heaven here in Revelation 6:16. They say, "hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb." Jesus is seen in the sky here. Just as described in Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 "Every eye", even those who pierced Him, see Him here at Revelation 6:16.
@@seasquawker The entire seven years is the time of Gods Wrath.God’s Wrath commences with the opening of the first seven seal’s-Rev 6:17.The pouring out of the bowls complete the seven year Tribulation period-Rev 15:1📖✝️
@markporter-thechurchhistor6784 That's not what Isaiah 13:6-13 and Revelation 6:16-17 say though. The Day of His wrath and vengeance commences with the signs in sun, moon, and stars. Isaiah 34:4-8 says this too. Where is God's wrath declared at the first seal? If you can show me, I'll believe it. Psalm 76:10 is also key. The Bible makes a distinction here between the wrath of man and the wrath of God, which is divided by this same "who is able to stand" phrase that we find in Revelation 6:17. This phrase was not placed here for no reason. It's also found in Malachi 3:2, Nahum 1:6, and Joel 2:10-11 "Who is able to stand, who can endure?" This is important because we are told that we are to pray that we are counted worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man. Luke 21:36 And indeed, the innumerable multitude of all nations in Revelation 7:9 is escaping on the same Day fire and brimstone will rain down (Revelation 8:1-7, Luke 17:29-30)... and they are "standing" before the Lamb. 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 agrees that the Day of Vengeance and God's wrath commences when Jesus is revealed from heaven... in flaming fire with holy angels (Revelation 7:1-3). And there is a "rest" for believers on this day. If the angels have not been permitted to harm the earth yet, then the wrath of God could not have commenced. Because multiple passages say they take part in the dispensing of God's wrath. See also Matthew 16:27, Mark 8:38, Matthew 13:37-41.
@@seasquawker Concerning Isaiah 26:19-21.Who is the Lord telling to hide in there chambers? The church? Of course not,the church wasn’t birthed until the day of Pentecost-Acts 2:1-4,1 Cor 12:13,EPS 2:14-18.Its the remnant of Israel that He is telling to hide during the time of Jacob’s Trouble(not the church)-Jer 30:7.Which is the Time of Israel’s Trouble-Dan 12:1. Concerning the darkening of the constellations;this not only occurs during the sixth sealed Judgment-Rev 6:12-17,but also at the end of the Tribulation period -Matthew 24:29-31.Also Rev 6:17-“For the Great day of His Wrath ‘HAS COME’”,is in the Aorist tense(meaning that the act has already commenced;rather than is about to start).Also concerning the sealing of the 144.000 of Israel.This is a parenthesis chapter,and not necessarily in chronological order.Concerning the Great Tribulation saints in Revelation 7,there is no mention of a resurrection.Infect,Rev 20 is clear that it’s the souls of those who have been beheaded,not there resurrected bodies,who are there;and that they won’t receive there resurrected bodies until Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation Period-Vrs 4-6.Also you will notice three groups mentioned in Rev7.The 144.000 elect of Israel,the Great Tribulation saints;and the 24 elders who represent the old and New Testament believers;up until there translation to Heaven through the “come up here”of Rev 4:1.The 24 Elders are already in heaven in chapter 4:4;before the Tribulation period commerces in Rev 6:1-2..Concerning Psalm 76:10 it say’s nothing about part of the tribulation being the wrath of man and the other part the Wrath of God.What the psalmist does say here is that,”the wrath of man shall praise you”🤔
@markporter-thechurchhistor6784 There's a resurrection occurring in Isaiah 26:19-21 and since we know the rapture cannot occur until after the resurrection, it must be taking place after this. We learn this from 1st Thessalonians 4. What happened to those who lived up until the coming of the Lord was a mystery until Paul revealed it, but now we know. They are raised up to heaven immediately after the resurrection and meet the Lord in the air. We can look at resurrection passages now, and see exactly when the rapture will take place. And it's consistent with the same timing as the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 as well as the redemption in Luke 21:25. It occurs after the time of trouble according to Daniel 12:1-3. Jesus confirms this with His words in Matthew 24:29 and says the gathering of the elect will occur "after the tribulation of those days." Concerning the chronological order of Revelation, chapter 7 is occurring during the 6th seal. Unless seals are opened out of order, then this is occurring in a chronological sequence. The angels also have not been permitted to harm the earth yet according to Revelation 7:1-3. So, the idea that the wrath of God had already been transpiring would violate Scripture. The 5th seal martyrs in Revelation 6 are also still asking, "how long until You avenge our blood?" Any wrath poured out would have needed to have been done without His mighty angels and of such a low level that the 5th seal martyrs are not satisfied to point that they don't feel avenged at all. Multiple passages say that the angels take part in the wrath including 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10. We also need flaming fire and brimstone from heaven according to this passage and we see in Luke 17:29-30 as well. This 'fire from heaven' does not occur until the first trumpet in Revelation 8:4-7. This is the first instance of fire from heaven and also according to Luke 17:29-30 it must come on the same day as the Revelation of Jesus from heaven and God's people removed like Lot was from Sodom. Again, it says these things all must take place on the same day. Revelation 6:16 Jesus revealed from heaven Revelation 7:9 God's people removed like Lot from Sodom Revelation 8:4-7 Fire from heaven According to Revelation 8:1, only a half an hour separates the 6th seal from the first trumpet. Here's a key thing. Who is Paul's audience in 2nd Thessalonians 1? Church age Gentiles. And he's telling them that they can expect their "rest" on the same day as Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire to take vengeance. If the pre-trib rapture was a real thing, then why does Paul think that the Thessalonians will not take part in it? He's got them going out with the tribulation saints at Christ's coming on the Day of Vengeance. Or is there no distinction? Is there just one rapture and one resurrection which occurs here on the Day of the Lord's vengeance? Again, this day is clearly marked by certain celestial signs: Isaiah 34:4-8, Revelation 6:12-14. This day that is associated with the signs in sun, moon, and stars like all the Olivet Discourse passages have is also the same as the 'Day of the Lord' in Joel 2:31-32. This passage also includes a deliverance on this day for anyone who would call on the name of the Lord. And not just Jews receiving deliverance here. Paul confirms this in Romans 10:12-13 when he quotes Joel 2:32 and says there is now no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon His name. Lo and behold, we see the people who are caught up to heaven at this time in Revelation 7:9 just after the signs in sun, moon, and stars are indeed people of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues.
Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of the first resurrection, these are those beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast. This is compelling with regard to post-trib. rapture since Paul says in 1 Th 4:16-17 those who are alive and remain will rise after the dead are resurrected.
John Plummer What happened to the others? Those that are "ALIVE and REMAIN" are the ones that didn't die as marytrs which of course is the LAST DAY not LEFT BEHIND !
My question to those who believe in the rapture is why would Jesus warn His disciples about what will come to pass? Why would He tell them about all the signs, etc If none of His people will be here? It doesn’t make any sense.
God's Child, Rom 11:25 says the Jews are partly blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which means the Jews will be part of a revival that takes place after the rapture. We see this being fulfilled in Rev 7 where the sealing of 144,000 represents the post-rapture revival on earth, and saints around the throne at this time represent church saints being received into heaven. In a nutshell, Jesus warned his disciples about various signs, and the Holy Spirit later inspired them to record these things, for the benefit of saints who will be rapture and for those who will only become saints or repent after the rapture.
It seems all is based on Daniel 9:24-27 and interpretation of 70 weeks. Definition of time is debated by many and the Rapture theories are just too specific based on man's interpretation of time. I have often wondered that if we go to Heaven when we die, who is left to be raised at the Rapture? Please clarify at least by following the sojourn of the soul after death. Thanks
Well I disagree. Not sure why on some points you never explain WHY you think that way. Like brides maids for one. Not written anywhere like that. Oh I can find a bible that uses that word. Cant read it written like that in the Greek. Lets not brake it down when we dont do that to "fallenaway" as to what that word can and does also mean. So.. please share about Chuck Missler and Perry Stone. Why how did they miss all this? Chuck is cool.. "dont take my word for anything.. you study and search". Not many talk like that. He knew just because HE says so.. does not make it true right DR Brown?
Perry Stone and Chick missler are wrong...i used to believe them myself and found out that their views don’t agree with what the Bible teaches. Please read the Bible and ask the lord to reveal the truth to you personally. Don’t hold onto a belief because a preacher says it, kindly go through the word diligently and i assure you that you’ll find the perfect truth.
Good job except for the obvious mistake at 22:24, where you elude to a "glorious appearance", what was the mistake of the 1st century jews?? They greatly embellished all of the scripture until everyone was expecting someone 20 ft tall, etc, the same thing that you are doing good doctor.
The dispensational view is SOOO popular that it is almost preposterous to hear another view for many of us who grew up in this. Imagine hearing postmillennialism while believing Left Behind is basically scripture. Crazy
Matthew 22 happening before our very eyes. Rapture is imminent! The trumpets could sound any moment - that’s where we are at. The current witnessing of countless of God’s messengers prophets and watchmen prove so. There IS a Pre- trib rapture! God’s elect are not called to wrath. Most of creation will be saved. Prepare your hearts - Jesus is coming any moment!! ⛈🌪☄️🔥☝🏽☝🏽👑👑🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽💞
Let's see, I read it & pray the Holy Spirit teach me & reveal me His word. I come away with a belief and then you the same thing. Problem is that we all come away with something different. Could this be a test to see how the Church handles it? I've seen so many heated arguments that led to sin & great divisions that bring greasy joy to satan his own damned self. I still walk away with my belief, still open to the Holy Spirit's direction. Regardless of how it goes, my faith & love in Christ is unshakable. You can land a space ship on my front lawn with tiny reptilian little fellers debarking and still my faith will be unshakable. I know that one way or the other I'm going up to meet my Savior while everyone else is still arguing and disagreeing on this
Pre trib, mid trib, and post trib are all true and its in scripture. That's why many argue and can each prove it with scripture. Its not just one. Its God's harvest model throughout the whole bible and its revealed in the gospels. That's why all 3 gospels speak of the same story but different. They are speaking to 3 different groups of people. Luke is to the bride of Christ that goes pre trib. Mark is to left behind church that goes mid trib. Matthew is to the jews and they are post trib. Ex. In Mark and Matthew before Jesus dies on the cross he says "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" but in Luke he says "Father into your hands I commend my Spirit. In Mark and Matthew Jesus is given a purple and scarlet robe when going to the cross. In Luke he's given a gorgeous bright robe. In revelation during the tribulation you see purple and scarlet being referenced (no mention of that gorgeous bright color). In Mark and Matthew Jesus says "no man knows the day and hour" but in Luke he says watch and pray that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things. Clearly he's saying different things for different reasons. God doesn't take everyone all at once. Like a harvest field you take the first 10% first. Then its the 90%, then last its the corners and gleanings. its laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and other scriptures. There's so many other scriptures I can't write them all here. th-cam.com/video/yXVqye-9AUk/w-d-xo.html
Dr. Brown, my main questions to you are where is the Bema seat judgement of the saints in Heaven take place if not during a pretrib rapture? If our wedding feast is in Heaven, the Galilean wedding 7 days parallel to 7 year trib, how does it make sense for us to meet him in the air, referring to his second coming, then come straight down? How is the 7 year treaty with Israel going to happen if the restrainer aka the Church filled with the Holy Spirt is still here? It makes most sense from my years of studying eschatology that we have to be taken out of the way, Christ calls us up so he does not return to the earth at this time, we have our award ceremony in which we are judged / give account in Heaven by what we did on the earth, we have our wedding with Christ, then we return with Christ at the end of the tribulation to rule with Christ for a thousand year, and then the new Heaven & Earth happen.
That doctrine was created by Sperry Chafer and can be found in his systematic theology text where he wants to uphold the once saved always saved doctrine. Which, needless to say is a "Protestant invention" and has nothing to do with what the early church believed or what the apostles taught. But If you want to make a case for that Calvin's predestinarian framework is the only doctrine that will work: theologically. What Chafer did was take what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:10, where the Greek word bematos is used (which is simple a raised platform), and 1 Corinthians 9:24 ( on running the race a receiving the prize) to explain the once saved doctrine and how all believers will stand before God not for judgment; but for 'rewards' or 'loss of rewards.'
What about eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building and getting married? This argument was not mentioned is this video. If everybody is hiding in a cave and freaking out (Revelation 6:15-17, Luke 21:26) how is it these folks will be doing all of those things during the tribulation? Especially in the last months before His coming to earth? What are they going to be planting when the sun no longer shines? What are they going to be eating if famine is throughtout the land? What are they going to buy if a loaf of bread costs a days wage? Those in the days of Noah and Lot didn't see the tribulation coming. But in Revelation 6:15-17 and Luke 21:26 they know He is coming. They know they are in trouble. I do believe there is only one resurrection however (John 6:39-54, Revelation 20:4-6). I don't see a resurrection in Luke 17:22-37. I see a pre-trib rapture (snatching away) without a resurrection. Life is normal, then there is a flash of light and dead bodies.
@James Marquis Revelation 6:15-17 and Luke 21:26. I believe life will be relatively calm in the one taken, one left (Luke 17) verses. At the end of the age mountain size meteorites have hit the earth (Rev 8), earthquakes and freak storms are the norm. I would hide in a cave if that was going on. Earthquakes, freak storms and meteorites would be difficult to survive in a man-made house. Then the sky goes dark! I would be freaking out. Jesus said the end would be like a woman giving birth. When the labor pains start the pain is not as intense and frequent as it is before the birth (Matt 24:8). I think the tribulation will start without any sign of impending doom. When the abomination of desolation happens, the GREAT tribulation will start.
I have read the Bible around 55 times all the way through. I, like Dr Brown, have always seen the rapture as part of CHRIST'S coming in the clouds and Matthew 24 it is after the Tribulation of those days. 2 Thessalonians 2 states that it will happen after the man of sin is revealed. This is not what pre-trib teaches but it teaches that the Final Antichrist will come after the rapture. This is my problem with the pre-trib rapture teaching.
I checked your comment on the word "keep" and actually "keep" is not an exact translation. It means "guard" or more literally "watch." Also, "keep" is King James English for "guard."
THERE IS NO ARGUMENT!!! Jesus will come quickly, and keep us (me) from the hour of testing, which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Case closed
keep you from the hour of testing,why would He do that when many were put to death and and tortured for many years. look at 70ad,many tribulations came upon the Good and bad.
"whole world" "earth" is correctly translated "land" see Luke 2:1. Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the whole world, (but the correct translation should be land)... God Bless you = )
John 17:15 -- “I do not ask that you take 'them out of the world', but that you "keep" them from the evil one.” The preposition "ἐκ" (translated “from”) in the Greek, does not always have a spatial meaning, and it certainly does not necessarily mean that "protection" can only be achieved by physically drawing the "church" out of the world. It clearly can mean "keeping through" trials and tribulations, by protecting or helping to endure while within the place of tribulation.The case is certainly not closed; there is an argument!!!
No where does it say in this passage that "the Hour" you refer to is the 7 year tribulation. That's requires a big assumption. In other places of the Bible, the word "hour" refers to a short period of time (days, not years). So not case closed. Show me anywhere where this passage in Revelation specifically talks about the 7 year tribulation.
That was spoken to one of the Churches addressed in Revelation, whereas another Church in the previous chapter was told that if they do not repent, they will be cast into great tribulation.
So did the people Paul 1st wrote to. I guess Jesus making us a home and coming to get us so where He is we will be …...SOME didn't believe that was ONLY for the 12 :) I am ready NOW!
Pay never believed Jesus would come in his lifetime Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 The falling away and the antichrist come first .before the coming of the lord and our gathering to Him . Paul taught post trib so did Jesus Jesus says He comes after the tribulation , never before . Pre trib isn’t in the bible
@@saquesas lately I am starting to understand what this means, don't know if this has always been the case but there are pretribbers now who think those who disagree with their doctrine aren't saved, or as they would put it " they're lacking the blessed hope".
I think we should remember that the pattern of the Jewish wedding feast isn't used in Scripture to exemplify the rapture, so it is not a valid argument when they weight of scripture is post-trib.
It's interesting. When I studied this many years ago I interpreted Isaiah 26:20-21 the opposite way - as referring to the same thing as John 14:2-3 for the Chrurch. In other words, the church will be hidden by Jesus through the rapture in the rooms of their "mansions" in heaven where the Father is. Also, many end-time propehcy teachers point out that the John 14 motif is a Jewish one, the Jewish man goes away to his father's house to prepare a room there for him and his bethroed. Where is the Father's house? In heaven. When will the bethroed church be raptured? - when the wedding is near - not when they die!! Jesus clearly says that He would come and bring them to the Father's house just as in the Jewish motif. So John 14:1-3 is not referring to the death of the believer. It's the rapture of the Bride (bethroed/"fiancé") in preparation for the wedding in Heaven and to avoid the wrath of the Father that will be poured out on earth, since the Bride is not apointed to the Father's wrath.
I would write on Facebook but in my experience it only amplifies success. It is so painful to hear people put their faith in it. Who is to say that it is not a Gordian Knot (that is a band I listen to)! Thanks
Isaiah 26:20 is referring to the Jews who will be protected during the tribulation, not the church. Daniel 9:24 says "thy people" and "thy holy city". Daniel's people are the Jews and Daniel's city is Jerusalem. Revelation 3:10, the church will be kept from the hour of temptation that will try them that dwell upon the earth. The trumps of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 are not the seventh trump in Revelation 19:15. The trumpet soundings in Revelation are unto judgement and devastation, but the resurrection trumpet is unto union with Christ with eternal joy and peace.
Question: doesn't there have to be a Rapture type of event on the last day? We know that "Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God". So, if you're a believer on the last day when the New Jerusalem is coming down from heaven you've got a serious problem. How will the believer enter into the New Jerusalem? Two verses clearly explain the problem and solution; Revelation 21:1-4, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-55. "Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God... there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying... Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed... and [when] this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory'.” Death still reigns through the millennium, so clearly there will be people who are labeled as "the dead in Messiah" who themselves must rise first. Furthermore; the people who are living when New Jerusalem comes down must be changed in order to enter. Death is "The Last Enemy [to be] Destroyed" on the last day when New Jerusalem comes down. Our Lord and Savior said at what time He would raise up His Body (four times) in the Book of John: Jn 6:39 "... that of all He has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day." Jn 6:40 "... [ whosoever] believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." Jn 6:44 "... and I will raise him up at the last day" Jn 6:54 " whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." In the Book of John, Martha concerning her brother's death said to our Lord and savior " ...I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day (Jn 11:24)". Clearly, John who wrote the Book of John, Martha, Paul, and our Lord and Savior Jesus all knew this to be true (so what's our problem?). Conclusion: there has to be a Rapture type of event on the last day.
Perhaps if you subtract one of the elements (such as blood) that our new bodies will have flesh and bone, and we won't have blood, or what is commonly referred to as blood anymore.
Love Dr. Brown but I totally disagree with his view on the Rapture. The very latest the Rapture of the Church can happen is when Christ appears at the Sixth Seal which is before the worst part of the Tribulation period. Why? Because we know that when we see Him we shall be like Him (1 John 3:2) and at the Sixth Seal, it explicitly says that the heavens will depart as a scroll and those on the earth will see Him and say "hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb..." But I believe there will be a rapture even before the Sixth Seal event for those living in this Dispensation of Grace because of Matthew 24:14. The Gospel of the Kingdom is going to be preached again which is salvation by faith plus works, repentance, and water baptism. The Gospel of Grace is salvation by grace through faith and not works and these two do not mix. This Dispensation of Grace must end before the Gospel of the Kingdom can be preached again for salvation. At the Rapture, believers are taken up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thes 4:17) But at the Second Coming the unbelievers are taken (Matt 24:40-41) and killed and the remaining believers are left (not raptured) on the earth to populate the millennial kingdom. But, if every believer is raptured and given glorified bodies at the Second Coming, who will populate the Millenial Kingdom? It's hard enough getting by right now. For anyone who thinks they will somehow make it through the tribulation period then I think you need to read the Book of Revelation again. How will you buy or sell? If you don't starve to death because you didn't take the Mark then you will be executed. No "Blessed Hope" there.
as someone who grew up with the #pretribrapture teaching... i have mused on why, if the father was meaning to make #onenewman in #yeshua, then why does he treat Israel (+++those joining the commonwealth and jews; having put their faith in messiah+++ plus the jews that will acknowledge him in the redemption), in two parts. If the #socalled church (+++) are the ones to go to the marriage supper of the lamb, well i'm asking myself; isn't that like replacement theology, to think that we'll be the bride and not physical israel with us; the #onenewman? either way... it's a comfort to know ..he is able to take that which we've committed to him against that day. Hallelujah anyhow!!!
Well I am one of those that read the bible and come away with JESUS is coming any moment and before that great and awful day of the lord. One.. Lot "as long as you are here I can do nothing" Lot was just ONE righteous and God would have not touched those cities for 10. There are MILLIONS now.. has God Changed? And Jesus said HE would and would come back.. no? Went to HIs Fathers house to make US a home..so WHERE (where did He go? Where is He?) He is we will WILL be. That NEVER happen...yet. And the people Paul 1st wrote to thought Jesus came and they missed it.. the restrainer.. something that has ALL power over the lawless one. Gee WHO in the world has MORE power then the LAWLESS one? THE CHURCH. Jesus gave you and me ALL power over the enemy and NOTHING shall by any means hurt you.. Jesus cant lie.. HE WILL come in the clouds as the angels said the way PAUL or God said.. what is NOT written is WHEN! Replacement... I cant see that. Do you know how many JEWISH people LOVE JESUS? ALL the CHURCH ..all that believing in JEsus that are watching and ready.. Would those go that are not watching not ready go? Well 5 virgins were not ready.. were not watching.. are you WATCHING NOW or looking at some DATE in the future? Well how about this.. where in the word has GOD promised tomorrow? NO WHERE! We should be always watching NOW ready NOW! Then you will NEVER miss Him. I dont follow PRE MID OR POST. He will come get me.. HE promised. I will NEVER see His wrath. Satan wilL NEVER have ANY power over JESUS and the SWEET SWEET Holy Spirit in me... its WRITTEN! So.. folllow what HE said.. and ask Him... about CAUGHT UP .. you will NEVER get an answer.. strange huh.. for something not happening you think HE would tell you show you in HIS word....yet HE will not.. He does not know..for of those times and seasons ONLY the Father knows.. yet Jesus told the 12.. I WILL Come back for you.. a LIE? If He KNOWS when HE is coming.. He mislead them lied.. or.. if ALL He knew was after He died rose PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS.. that nothing had to happen for HIm to come but the Father saying GO! Then He told the truth.. He is COMING... the way He left
In Revelation 18:4 where God tells His people to come out of Babylon,God’s people referred to here are not the body of Christ,the Church,as we will have already been caught up into Heaven through the “come up here” of Revelation 4:1-4.In Revelation chapter 4 the 24 elders,(the church) are already robed in white,crowned,and reigning with Christ in Heaven on 24 thrones.Jesus said to His disciples that “you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just”-Luke 14:14.Therefore it is clear that verse 1 of Revelation 4 is a picture of the translation of the Church to heaven at the resurrection of the just.Verses 2-3 represent the Judgment seat of Christ,(the Bema seat),where we see the Sardius lamb of God and our soon coming Jasper King(the Lord Jesus Christ)sitting on the Throne.Then In verse 4 we are reigning with Him in Heaven.The church is already caught up to heaven in revelation 4:1,whereas the tribulation period does not commence on earth until Revelation 6:1-2.Therefore God’s people spoken of in Revelation 18:5 are those who have come to faith in Jesus during the tribulation period,after the church has been removed to Heaven-Revelation 7:9-17.As for Isaiah 26:20,God was speaking to His people Israel,just as Israel will have to hide themselves again during the tribulation period,because the tribulation period is the time of Jacob’s trouble,not the church-Jeremiah 30:7,Daniel 12:1,Matthew 24:21-22.
Jack Hibbs uses John 14 to prove the pretrib dogma but I don’t see anything in those verses that indicates anything about a pretrib rapture. I don’t get it
The Lion and his lamb I don’t think Brother Brown’s arguments were conclusive... I came to the post trib conclusion years ago, despite my pre trib upbringing, because of what I saw in the Bible. Calling each other’s views silly is not a good way to start a discussion. I made the video below. Pre trib is a nice thought, but not vindicated in the scriptures th-cam.com/video/vhCYOESfNTE/w-d-xo.html
Jason Kerrigan, Romans 5:9; 1st Thess. 1:10 and 1 Thess. 5:9-11, let me know that the Church won't be here for the tribulation period, which will be God's wrath poured out on this rebellious world. Jesus Christ already took God's wrath for us on the cross. The same way Noah and his family was safe on the ark above the judgment and wrath of God, the Church will be safe in heaven above while the tribulation period rages down here on earth. Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Luke 21:36. The only way I know to escape those thing that shall come to pass is to raptured out, or die before they happen. It will be those who get saved after the rapture who will have to endure to the end.
@@Tazz77 "The only way I know to escape those thing that shall come to pass is to raptured out, or die before they happen." Revelation 3 tells us how to escape. *"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance,* I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." This is a conditional promise made to those who keep the word of his perseverance or patience (meaning his patience in coming back). This is discussed in 2 Peter 3. He is patiently waiting to return so that we can repent. Daniel even talks about people trying to make the vision come to pass but that it won't until the *appointed time.* So how are we kept from the tribulation if we are here on the earth? The same way Noah and his family were, in a place of protection which is here on the earth. Daniel tells us where this place of protection is during the last 3.5 years. The other prophets verify this place of protection and our being there. You still have a few years to learn about this. Shalom
NEWS CONCERNING THE RAPTURE! The beheaded christians from revelation 20: 4-5 have gone through the great tribulation and take part in the first resurrection. In the rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17 the dead in Christ will rise first,before the living will be caught up together with them. This means that the rapture can not be before the tribulation!
i believe in a mid/post. if God crushed the Apostles and put them through what he did. who am I to think he would spare me from Trib, and persecution. not his wrath. but the latter
There are five places in Revelation where we are told that no Christian survives the Tribulation and the antichrist. Rev 6:11 " They were told to wait a little longer until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be KILLED as they had been , was complete." Complete meaning ALL of them. Rev 7:14-16 " These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation...they will no longer hunger or thirst or be scorched by the heat." Rev 13:7 " He was given power to wage war with the saints and overcome them." Rev 13:15 " He was given power to give breath to the image so that it could even speak and cause all who refused to worship the beast or take his name or number, to be KILLED." Rev 20:5 " And I saw the souls who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus." Therefore, the phrase "We who are alive and remain" can't possibly support a post Trib rapture, because no Christian is left alive. Then there is the misuse of Mathew ch 24. The context is Jesus answering questions from His Jewish disciples about Jewish things, namely, what will happen to Israel. Notice all the "Jewish only" references Jesus uses to answer their questions about the signs of the end: "the abomination of desolation"..."the temple'..."the sabbath"..."the rooftops"..."the Judean countryside"..."the elect"...and perhaps even "the fig tree". In the book of Zechariah ch 13 vs 8-9 it says... " In the whole land" declares the Lord, "two thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third will be left in it. This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold." This one third that Zechariah was talking about was who Jesus was referring to when He said "Unless those days had been shortened not even the elect would survive". So Mathew ch 24 has nothing to do with the church, it is about ISRAEL.
You are confusing when God talks to the Jews left behind during the tribulation and when He talks to us, The Church. The Bible is written for the ages, not just to The Church. For instance, the "you go out" admonition is to the Jews. They flee Jerusalem and go to a special place, likely Petra, where they are to hide and will be kept safe until the end of the tribulation. They are to stay there until it is over. Also, the tribulation is called the time of Jacob's trouble. That there is a division between Israel and the gentiles is clear. There is a fullness of the gentiles in contrast to when the Jews are brought in, fullness of gentiles referencing The Church. There is also a "time of the gentiles", referencing the time while Jerusalem is being trodden down by the gentiles before she again is fully under the control of the Jews. If you don't rightly divide The Word of God between between Jews, gentiles and The Church, which is paramount to correctly understanding eschatology, end time events, you cannot understand the end time events. There is ultimately one Kingdom of God, but there are important differences within it. God took Enoch out from the earth before the flood. What do you think he represents? He also took John up to heaven before He unfolded the events to take place within the tribulation period. Some timing, hah?
you know .. for me it was Jewish people that asked about the end.. and He told them what they will see. No Christian asked Him.... I dont know.. I just know Jesus left.. and HE not man He said He would come back for me.. I will never see His wrath.. I have ALL power over the enemy.. ALL. The restrainer is holding back the lawless one..SOMEONE SOMETHING that has ALL power over him. And ONLY when SOMETHING is taken out of the way does the lawless one come out in the open to do lying wonders.. something he cant now. I HAVE ALL power over him..aka the CHURCH! I can be wrong...yet I live as if JESUS is coming NOW! I will NEVER miss Him] Now... can those not watching not ready still go?
@@maxzeblade I think your right. When Jesus said these things He had not been crucified yet so the Church age had not even started yet. Like you both said He was adressing the Jews
@@slojogojo2766 Remember, they could disavow Jesus, who walked among them and preformed countless astounding miracles. People believe what they want, until God directly reveals truth to them. Many Jews of today think Jesus is wicked, it won't matter that millions of Christians disappear. They will come up with an excuse for it, you can be sure.
I'm more of a pan trib, meaning whatever happens it will all pan out , but I think that saved by grace is in reference to God saving our soul. I mean, isn't that what's truly important, to say that saved by grace means we don't have to go through any tribulation would be false because there are Christians around the world killed or persecuted every day. God's grace is allowing us to spend eternity with him, in his presence, but we are warned many times that we will be persecuted, so I think that's a bit of a weak argument.
The more I've studied, the less I think there will be a pretrib rapture. If Jesus was tortured and murdered, how do we think we're higher than Him. But if Im wrong, I'm good with it 🙂
Concerning Rev 3:10, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Before the rapture event [2Thess 2] two events are to be fulfilled The first is the 'falling-away' and the second is the 'great tribulation'. The great tribulation can only happen after a new temple has been built in order to fulfill verse 4, "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." When that happens the command is Mat 24:15, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand). Then let those in Judea flee into the mountains..." So, we are still living living in 'the hour', 'the season', of the 'falling away'. There are thousands of denominations and hundreds of Bible translations and it from this one will be protected Mat 24:11-, "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." The Gospel will be preached, during the great tribulation by the three angels [Rev 14:6-12] and then the rapture Rev 14:14-, "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And He that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped,." The rapture saves the saints from the wrath of God that then follows, Rev 15 and 16. The saints will be in heaven for many months before returning back to earth for the marriage supper Rev 19:9 and thereafter to reign with Christ the 1 000 years.
Revelation 11:18 “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.” Revelation 22:12 “And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.” Matthew 16:27 “For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.” Isaiah 40:10 “Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.” Isaiah 62:11 “Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.” Bless you
@@michaelm254 Thanks, Michael and yes, Rev 11:18 is the rapture event, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth,” saving us from God's wrath and the time of judgement will be at hand and 11Tim 4:7- will be fulfilled, "I have participated in the contest, the worthy, I have completed the course, I have guarded the faith: There is now set aside for me the wreath of the confirmation, with which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will reimburse me at D-day, and not only to me-but also to all who have eagerly awaiting the arrival of Him. What's more is, Dr. Michael has it wrong: Jesus is not busy 'building houses' Joh 14:2-, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." The translators have it wrong. Do note the 'if I go'. That implies that Jesus might not go to do whatever. Compare Acts 25:16 where the same word 'place' is translated 'opportunity', "I answered them that it was not the Roman custom to sentence a man to be punished until the accused met his accusers face to face and had an opportunity to defend himself against the charge," ISV version. Jesus was on his way to Gethsemane where He pleaded God the Father to 'let the cup pass, "And He went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt," Mat 26:39 and He did drink the cup. The point is, Jesus drank the cup and in so doing He prepared an opportunity for those who are prepared to be born again that they can be where He will be; in the City, with streets of gold and the many mansions. Dr. Michael has no teaching concerning the rebirth event.
@@johannesvangend2598 Romans 14:11 “For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.” Romans 14:12 “So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.” Isaiah 45:23 “I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.” The key Word of YHVH here is ……….. Every and that is in Revelation 11:18 Bless you
@@johannesvangend2598 Luke 21:36 “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” Revelation 6:17 “For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” every one takes a knee. Bless you
After the rapture thats it. There is NO SECOND CHANCE FOR THE PEOPLE LEFT BEHIND. if thats the case why worried about being raptured if you're going to have YET ANOTHER chance. But not only another chance, but know you know Jesus exist. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. The modern World English Bible translates the passage as: Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed. It just doesnt add up. God is merciful true enough, but come on smh
No that’s not true. Countless numbers will be martyred for their faith. Angels will traverse the heavens preaching the gospel and Israel will have 144000 chosen to preach the gospel all this plus the two witnesses in Jerusalem. Many will be saved during the tribulation.
The Bible states in Daniel 8:1-27 Daniel speaks of his vision, then in 9:20-27 Gabriel comes down to give Daniel the skill to understand. :24a, “Seventy weeks are determined for YOUR People and for the Holy City to FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION, (Rejection of Messiah) TO MAKE AN END OF SINS! To make Reconciliation ( Christians are already Justified of sins, and are the Righteousness of God IN Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:21) for iniquity. It has even been titled “The Day of Jacobs’ Trouble.” and is specifically for Israel. As Christians We are Reconciled IN Christ, Romans’ 5:11 (on Earth, we are the Body of Christ)and are Fully Justified by the Blood of Christ and will not be judged again. When Daniel was written the Church/Body of Christ was an Unknown/ Mystery so how could Jacobs’ Trouble be applied to the Church? The Judgement is for the Jews and Unbelievers will also be caught in it, 144,000 (12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes of Jews) Rev’ 7:1-8 and many Saints shall come out of the Tribulation 7:1317. The Church is never seen again after Revelation 4 and Scripture would be totally amiss/wrong IF the Church is around in the Tribulation and goes unmentioned. John 17:17, “ Sanctify them by Your Word for Your Word is Truth.” Numbers 23:19, “For God Is NOT a man that HE SHOULD LIE.” Lot and his wife and two daughters were Raptured out of Sodom and Gomorrah; Genesis 19:12-29 (minus his wife/ turned into a Pillar of Salt, Gen’ 19:26). Lot pleaded with the Lord that if He found any Righteous People would He spare the City, Genesis 18:23, And Abraham came near and said” Would You destroy the Righteous with the wicked? :24, “Suppose there were 50 Righteous”:28, “suppose there were 5 less” (45), :30, “Suppose 30 should be found there? :31, “Suppose 20 be found there.” Finally Abraham got the Lord down to 10 Righteous People:32, And He said “I will not destroy it for the sake of 10.” The Two angels took hold of Abraham, his wife and two daughters hands and removed/Raptured them and set them Outside the City.Genesis 19:16, they fled to Zoar. The Angel told Abraham in 19:22, “Hurry, escape there. **FOR I CANNOT DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU ARRIVE THERE** Abraham was Considered Righteous, How Much More the Church? Who are the “Righteousness of God IN Christ Jesus.”!!! THE RIGHTEOUS HAVE TO BE REMOVED/ RAPTURED OUT **BEFORE** JUDGEMENT CAN HAPPEN. MARANATHA 🙏🏻
@@Leo-e5f7y At the rapture the Groom comes out of his place to fetch his bride. The only time I ever hear the term "secret rapture" is from postribbers.
Question are you a Follower / Servant of Jesus ? Matthew 12:18 “Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.” Isaiah 42:1 “Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.” Isaiah 53:11 “He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.” Matthew 18:23 “Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.” John 12:26 “If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.” Question are you Following ? If Yes then you are a servant ! John 15:20 “Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.” Revelation 6 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be…..killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Revelation 7 13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. So if the martyrs / servants of Jesus are still Dying for Christ in the tribulation And the dead in Christ rise first and the martyrs / servants are also the dead in Christ how can anyone go before the Last ONE is martyred ? Ephesians 4:5 “One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” Bless you
Michael M you got it I think right on.. nobody is rising until Revelation 20:5 “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION”.. 🙌🏻 thank Jesus His Witten Word!
@@jare3845 Events in the sixth seal, seventh trumpet and seventh bowl of wrath line up. They happen at the same time. Notice what happens at the last bowl of wrath. Revelation 16:12-18 *The sixth angel poured out his bowl* on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east. Armageddon And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole [i]world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. *(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)* And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon. Seventh Bowl of Wrath *Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl* upon the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, “It is done.” And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and there was a great earthquake,..." Yeshua returns at the last bowl of wrath at Armageddon. Look what Job prayed to God. Job 14:12-14 "So man lies down *and does not rise until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.* “Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, that You would conceal me *until Your wrath returns to You*" Job said we would not rise until the heavens are no more (stars fall, the sun and moon don't give light). The dead must rise before the living are caught up. But Job goes further and makes a request. His request to God is that he would be hidden in the grave until God's wrath returns to him. Amazing. There are other verses that go with your seal verses, proving the timing of our Lords return after the tribulation. I think you are post-trib but maybe don't realize it because you haven't discovered those verses yet. God bless.
You know what your saying Dr Brown does not say. Dr Brown didnt prove there is no PRE caught up. He makes that clear. He knows there is NOTHING in the word of God that PROVES there IS a pre trib or there is no pre trib. NO ONE can show a verse. Just the classice "what that really means, What JEsus really means" so forth. Apostasy.. falling away? You do know that can also mean "departure". Which as you see can mean both. People leave that out.. Lawless one. Who has all power over Satan? So you believe.. the lawless one.. Satan will be out in the open doing lying wonders and has power over you? For during that time does it not say he does? hmm how can this be? Well did not A GOD give you ALL power over the enemy? Is not greater is HE that is IN YOU IN YOU than he thats in the world? You telling me.. the CHURCH that has ALL POWER over the enemy is going to just SIT BACK and let Satan be out in the open demons fallen angels what ever and not BIND HIM in JESUS NAME! Not command him to go in JESUS NAME...does not he have to FLEE FROM YOU! You telling me GOD is going to give Satan power over HIM that IS IN YOU that HOLY SPIRIT aka GOD that is with you FOREVER? My bible says only WHEN the restrainer is taken out of the way.. THEN something that has ALL POWER over the lawless.. when its taken out of the way.. THEN wow he comes out in the open.. doing lying wonders ...wow just like he did BEFORE Jesus came.. Didnt JESUS tell YOU I go to make you a HOME so where I am YOU WILL be? Did HE lie to them? FACE TO FACE He said that. You think JESUS NEW He was not coming till the END and just felt sorry for them so He lied to them? Or He didnt know when, CAUGHT UP will happen NO WHERE does it say HINT AT PRE or MID or POST! So if NOW is all you have then be ready NOW.. watch and pray expect Him NOW! Or He will come as a thief and TAKE something and you NEVER knew He came.. FACT no where after Chat 4 is the CHURCH EVER talked about.for something that ALL are STILL HERE WOW He forgot? OR no one knows when.. be ready
@@maxzeblade Yeshua said the wheat and tares grow together until the *end of the age* and that at that time the *tares* are gathered out *first.* Yeshua also said we would be gathered *immediately after the tribulation of those days.* Yeshua also said he is *coming like a thief at the seventh bowl of wrath.* Paul said the dead in Christ will rise *first* and that the living believers will in no way precede them. So we can study to see when the dead in Christ are raised to find out when the rapture takes place (because the dead in Christ rise *first* and the living in no way precede them). Revelation 20 tells us the *first resurrection * includes tribulation martyrs...we in no way precede them. Also, Job asks that God hide him in the grave until God's wrath returns to God (this happens at the seventh bowl of wrath). You have a lot of passion but you are listening to false teachers. Just read the bible and direct your passion correctly. Said in love.
Question please are in a church with God in it ? 1 Corinthians 14:33 “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” And are you in the body of Christ ? Ephesians 4:12 “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” If yes …….. Revelation 14:12 “Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” Ephesians 4:5 “One Lord, one faith, one baptism,” Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” Colossians 3:11 “Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.” 1 Corinthians 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” 1 Corinthians 7:19 “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.” In 1 Corinthians 7:19 he is telling us To Keep "the commandments of God.” Revelation 22:14 “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.” Bless you
I don’t see how the rapture can be at the second coming as this author is teaching. If that were so, who would be left alive on earth to repopulate the earth? Christians would’ve raptured and no Christians judged. It must be prewrath
What deceptive smokescreen is taking away from the timing of the Second Coming? The Son of Man won’t be gathering His elect from the wrath to come, before, in the middle, or at the end of the 70th Week of Daniel. Think of the countless hours teachers have vainly tried to prove a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation timing of His Coming. These interpretations aren’t in the scriptures; nor are they from the Holy Spirit. So, what is our Lord really saying? The saints getting the victory over the Beast will know their gathering by angels is near when they see the sun, the moon, and the stars lose their light!
He says the sun, moon stop giving their light and the stars fall from heaven *immediately after the tribulation of those days* and then He returns to gather the elect. I'm not sure how you can say post-trib is wrong if you see He comes after the sun, moon and star signs.
Holy Spirit won't be here like in the time of the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation , i. The tribulation it goes back to The Law, not by grace. Hy Spirit comes down into the prophets and 144,000. Church is saved by grace, tribulation saint are saved by TESTIMONY!! Testimony that God didn't lie about the pretribulation. In the rapture Jesus is not see bc church goes up to him. Jesus is see coming in the cloud coming down with saints dressed in fine linen. In heaven the church will have a seder (wedding of the lamb) while the last 3 1/2 yrs of the tribulation is going on. Why is the church dressed i. Fine linen while the tribulation saints are dressed in white robes holding olive branches. The church gets a different reward. Crown, white rock with a new name and will be priests in the Millennium then the new Jerusalem while tribulation saints go to God's temple? Explain this?
The holy sports will be here Hes omnipresent so He can’t leave also many willl be saved during the tribulation and salvation cannot take place without the Holy Spirit. What will happen is the Holy Spirit’s role will change He will allow Satan to expand his power and reek intense persecution.
I disagree with your answer to the first question about isaiah 26:19-21,vs 19 says your dead shall live together with my dead body they shall arise awake and sing you who dwell in the dust,the earth shall cast out the dead,this is talking about the resurrection,so when vs20 says come my people enter your chambers and shut the door behind you) the chambers they are entering has to be in heaven because they were resurrected,the word chamber means bedroom this is the bridle chamber where they will get married to Christ at the marriage in rev 19:7, not on earth being protected like you said israel was being protected when god was pouring out the plagues in moses time
Rev 20:4 says that those didn't who did not receive the mark of the beast will reign with Jesus for a thousand years. How can somebody choose not to take the mark of the beast if they're not offered it? I believe the mark of the beast will be offered to people during the tribulation. Therefore those people had to have lived through the tribulation to refuse the mark. That's why I'm Post-trib. I would really like to believe in pre-tribulation but I agree with Dr Brown that the scripture just doesn't support it.
Revelation 20:4 is referring to those who get saved after the rapture, who become the tribulation saints. The Church will be taken out of the way before that. Keep in mind that the entire tribulation period is God's wrath poured out on this rebellious world and the Church isn't appointed to God's wrath (Read Romans 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10 & 1 Thess. 5:9-11). Jesus Christ already took God's wrath for us on the cross, so we'll be removed.
@@Tazz77 where does it say that those people are saved after the Rapture? There are lots of examples where God's people were in Tribulation and he did not save them from it, he save them through it. Example the flood, Lion's Den, fiery furnace, passover... just because we will not be the focus of God's Wrath does not mean that we will not be here through it.
Sandina K, God will keep us FROM it...as He did Noah. Noah and his family were safe on the ark, kept from the flood waters, safely above the wrath of God, which raged beneath them. So will it be for those of us who are raptured out - while the tribulation period is raging down here on earth, the Church will be safe in heaven. We are not appointed to God's wrath. Daniel in the fiery furnace and the lion's den aren't examples of Gods' wrath. Daniel wasn't thrown into the fiery furnace and the lion's den because God was angry with him. The Church is not appointed to God's wrath, which is what the tribulation period will be - God's wrath poured out on rebellious mankind. I am convinced and always will be right up to when it happens, that we'll be raptured out before the tribulation. It's our blessed hope and we're to comfort one another with these words (1 Thess. 4:16-18). Can we comfort one another with something that isn't going to happen? Does God lie? No. Revelation 7:9-14 speaks of the tribulation saints, those who get saved and are martyred for their faith during the tribulation period. Daniel 7:21, Revelation 13:7, and Revelation 20:4, tells us that the Beast will persecute these saints heavily during his reign. These verses also let me know that there won't be a whole lot of protection during the tribulation period. The only ones who'll definitely be protected will be the 144,000 Jewish males who will preach the gospel during that time (Revelation 7:1-8).
@@Tazz77 Noah still had to endure probably the screaming of the drowning people and even if he couldn't hear them he knew they were. He was still in it. And the other times in the bible when he saved them through it? I want to believe in pre-trib but I don't see evidence for it. I used to and it gave me comfort, until I started studying it. 1st Thessalonians 4 16 through 18 points out that we will be raptured when Christ returns. That's not till the end of the tribulation. Revelation 7 does say that those people came out of the tribulation, but it doesn't say that there was people there were taken out before that. Revelation 7:1 doesn't apply to me I'm not Jewish, I'm a gentile.
The Bridegroom would never put the Bride in this predicament... Come, let’s get married, then I’m going to beat the living daylights out of you, then let’s go have dinner. Nope. You are mistaken dr. brown. See ya in the air....😊
Read about a OLD OLD Jewish wedding. He pays for her.. he then goes back to his fathers house to make them a home. She stays behind not knowing when he will come get her. So about a year later he comes back with some friends....makes a loud noise so she knows he is coming. And her.. always watching always ready. He gets her.. takes her back to his fathers house for a week or so.. That is NOT the word.. yet... JEWISH! 10 virgins.. all sleeping.. wake up.. 5 were always watching 5 were not... I live as if JESUS is coming NOW! Those not watching not ready..I dont know
Poolahpot you must be on pot the Bride has been beat the living daylights out of since the beginning of the church...Obviously you are as blind as a bat and have not read the history of the church Fox's book of martyrs etc. Those closest to Jesus ALL got the crap beat out them unto dead...John they tried to kill but could not so off to prison. Wake up man!!!!! Nothing has changed...Christian still getting beat up and killed...America is next. You are living a fairytale dream so you get off easy. Count the cost Jesus said....YOUR LIFE....overcome by not loving your life unto the death. Rev 12:11
I disagree. John 14 1-4 does refer to the Rapture. There is nothing in that passage that refers to a Second Coming as believers meet the Lord in the Air in order to receive our new bodies and return to Heaven to occupy the Mansions (Place) Jesus said he was preparing for us. Furthermore, dead believers are already with the Lord. Just like Jesus told the dying criminal on a cross next to Him, 'TODAY you will be with me in Paradise.' (Lk 23:43). So, he cannot welcome dead believers to be with Him as they already live with the Lord right now in Spirit unless one believes in soul sleeping, which is not taught in Scripture. What Jesus meant is welcoming all Church Saints after the Resurrection (Dead) and Translation (Living) in the Air and returning back into Heaven in our new immortal bodies. To be clear, dead believers are already with the Lord in Spirit form. The purpose of the Rapture is so they can receive an immortal body and live in the place promised by the Lord. For living believers, they will go through a translation into immortal bodies when they are caught up from Earth at the same time. Those believers will never experience death. After the Rapture, all believers, In their new immortal body, will be with the Lord forever. But, they will not occupy the Earth again until after the Great Tribulation in the role assigned to us in the Messianic Kingdom. In Revelation, the Church is mentioned in Chapters 1-3. And, after that, Chapter 19. Bur, in the detailed GT chapters 4-18, the Church is not mentioned once. Never. Those who are persecuted or killed as believers are Tribulation believers who come to Christ during the GT because to the preaching of the 144,000 Jews and Two Witnesses. Non-believers are by far the majority in GT, who will suffer God's wrath as they have the mark of the beast. John 14 1-4, refers to the Resurrection of dead believers and translation of living believers prior to the Great Tribulation. We get a new body as promised in I Thess 4: 13-18 and I Cor 15: 50-58. Those Scriptures make it clear corruptible bodies cannot enter the Kingdom of God. But, there is nothing in the Bible that states the Rapture triggers the GT, as the Rapture is imminent, without preconditions. It could happen now. The signing of the seven-year treaty with the Anti Christ by Israel triggers the GT. The Rapture as no pre-conditions. Unlike other pre GT events, like a One World Government eventually broken into 10 Kingdoms that are outlined by Daniel the Prophet and other OT Prophets. Most of the Book of Revelation, but not all, can be found in the Old Testament,, mainly amongst the Prophets. The Book of Revelation simply gives us a Chronology of those events.
God working through a lie? Can't respect someone who dont call things for what it is. Teaching lies is works of fools who repeat what they heard and never read for themselves.
Always believes in a Pre-Trib rapture, It’s what the church taught. This year I was simply reading all end times scripture and it came alive in such a different way. I’m still between mid tribes to post trib but definitely not pre anymore. Look forward to reading your book
Acording to 2 Thess 2:11 and Isaiah 10:5,6,20 delusion is from God through the antichrist as part of his judgement in wrath against those who rejected the truth so they could be saved. Jesus redeemed men (6) from every kindred, tongue, people and nation, 4 corners of the world = 24. They’re in heaven before chapter 6, which by the way is book 66 chapter 6 or 666. Interesting
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I had no idea Dr Brown was post trib! This is awesome! So many teachers out there are pre trib and I can’t understand how they get that biblically.
@@danielpaulrowell simple. Brainwashing. Zionists funded adding darby and scofield’s notes to the kjb bible in 1909 and gave them away by the millions into seminaries and baptist churches thus corrupting most churches in america. Brown is right on post-trib but wrong staying dispensational on some level.
Im a Saved by God's Wonderful Grace Christian! Pre, Mid or Post Tribulation Catching Up, means nothing to me!! Im excited about Knowing il be with God the Father, Jesus the Son and God the Holy Spirit for ALL eternity 🎉
Love your persistence to keep this issue in the forefront! I see nothing wrong with the points you present. So many people that believe that they will be raptured and have nothing to stand on but the teaching of modern day preachers and wrong application of scripture. Great programs.
We shouldn't compromise the truth. Yes I say we shouldn't divide ourselves from brothers and sisters who say pre trib but the truth is the truth and we shall speak truth for it is the light it is life it is the word it is Jesus.
Ephesians 6:13-14
“Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness…”
It is interesting that truth is worn like a belt. Belts were used to gird one’s loins to prepare oneself for work or battle. You can only stand on or for something if you know the truth about it. If you don’t know or believe that you must withstand in the evil day, you are less likely to take a stand.
Hebrews 10:35-39
Therefore do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while,
and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.”
But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,…
Matthew 13:20-21
As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Dr Brown I tend to agree with you on the post-trib rapture I believe in Matthew chapter 24 Jesus pretty well laid it out and explained that the end won't come until certain things take place. It says that there will be a great falling away could it be that this falling away occurs because of the teaching of a pre-trib rapture and people lose hope. What would be the point of the days being shortened for the sake of the elect if the elect had already been raptured.
"What would be the point of the days being shortened for the sake of the elect if the elect had already been raptured."
The elect isn't just for the church; it applies to all who will be in eternity-Angels, Old Testament saints, Tribulation martyrs, and all those who survive the tribulation period.
Well since Dr Brown seems to have issues calling Benny Hinn a false teacher, I don't give much credence to his opinions on matters of our faith. I was Amillenial for my first 50 years and being a dispensationalist cleared up so much confusion. I am a pre-trib rapture individual and think the points on the matter is very strong.
Pretty sure he did say it
"being a dispensationalist cleared up so much confusion"
That's the thing I don't understand about Christians who reject dispensationalism, it just puts everything into logical order.
This is historic premillennial optimism. The views that the first century fathers held!
Crystal clear. Love your gracious demeanor.
I was pre-trib for over 40 years. Let’s just say I was misinformed.
Pre trib rapture is wishful thinking.
It's part of the"health and wealth" gospel
PRE-TRIBBERS, CAN YOU ANSWER MY ONE QUESTION?
How can I be ALIVE AND REMAIN at the SECOND COMING, if I have already been RAPTURED and GONE in some pre-tribulation rapture?
Paul said those who have died in Christ will precede in the rapture those who are alive and remain until his appearing.
@@biblehistoryscience3530
Yes, Paul puts the rapture AFTER (hence the word THEN as the first word in the verse) the dead in Christ rising first. If you ask me the Harpazo and resurrection are the same thing the way Paul wrote this.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 said “Yes, Paul puts the rapture AFTER (hence the word THEN as the first word in the verse) the dead in Christ rising first.”
Paul did not put the rapture after the resurrection. He put the snatching-away after the resurrection, all of which is part of what we now call the rapture because the Greek word _harpazo_ (“snatch away”) is not equivalent to the modern theological term rapture. And the rapture now refers a whole sequence of events, starting with the Father informing the Son that the time has come to take his bride home, and ending with celebrations of their arrival in Heaven.
In 1 Cor 15:52, Paul said that in a moment, a trumpet will sound and the dead shall rise and the living be changed, and he repeated this in 1 Thess 4:16-17, saying the Lord will descend with an angel's shout and the dead shall rise first, then those who are living shall be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 What are you trying to say Bible?
I'm not saying Paul put the rapture AFTER the resurrection. I am saying the rapture is part of the resurrection as Paul makes it all ONE event in 1st Thess. 4:13-18. He doesn't divide it up over long periods of times. He puts both right before the return of Jesus' physically to earth which is what parousia means int he greek. check out the word REMAIN in the greek. It means survive. If we are not going to have to go through great tribulation, then the passage is meaningless and makes no sense.
1st Cor. and 1st Thess. was written to Gentile believers who thought they were the last generation due to the great persecution they were under.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or trying to say something but having a hard time saying it in how you wrote it.. There is only one bride made up of Jew and Gentile. The gospel went to the Jews first adn then to the Gentiles. One bride. God is not a polygamist.
@@sacredcowtipper1378 said “am saying the rapture is part of the resurrection as Paul makes it all ONE event in 1st Thess. 4:13-18.”
Paul did not say it all makes one event and that event is the resurrection. He talked about a few things that happen in quick succession, including the Lord descending from heaven to the clouds, and the resurrection of the dead into glorified bodies along with living saints being glorified, and their being caught-up to meet Jesus in the clouds, and living saints rising to meet them all in the air.
You said “He doesn't divide it up over long periods of times.”
I don’t know of anyone who divides all these events into long periods of time. Paul says it all happens in the twinkling of an eye.
You said “He puts both right before the return of Jesus' physically to earth which is what parousia means int he greek.”
While Paul said we would be with Jesus always after being caught-up to him, he did not mention the Lord returning to the earth at this time. Paul didn’t say where we were going, but Jesus did in John 14:1-3 where he promised to go prepare a place for believers in his Father’s house and return to receive us there so that we could be with him where he was going, Heaven. And the fact that all of these things happen in a flash (from Jesus’ descending to the clouds to our going up to him) proves that Paul could not have been talking about the second coming because the parable of wheat and tares says that Armageddon happen before the saints are gathered to Jesus. In other words, the Lord cannot appear and rapture the saints in the blink of an eye and then touch down and fight Armageddon, then cast everyone who took the mark of the beat in the Lake of Fire, and then imprison Satan, AND not contradict that parable.
And Rev 19-20 is a witness to this sequence of events because it shows the glorified church at the marriage supper of the Lamb in Heaven then returning with Jesus at his second coming, then Armageddon, and saints aren’t ingathered until the first of two resurrections in Rev 20, which is after all the events I just mentioned are completed.
And the word _parousia_ just means “being present, arrival”.
You said “check out the word REMAIN in the greek. It means survive. If we are not going to have to go through great tribulation, then the passage is meaningless and makes no sense.”
The Greek word _zao_ that’s usually translated as “alive” in 1 Thess 4:17 does not mean “to survive” but “to live,” and Paul used it here to contrast those who had died in Christ with saints who remain alive until his appearing.
You said “God is not a polygamist.”
Nobody is suggesting that God is a polygamist. God taught this betrothal metaphor of his Son to his church, and just because he made the offer to the Jew first and then the Gentile does not negate that fact.
This is very unfortunate, as is with most of us humans who contain this “treasure”, we can allow our own perspectives cloud the brightest star. When I hear someone say “well I was raised in a Church that taught”, and then they continue on with their “schooled” opinions I “take pause” immediately.
I realize to the person proclaiming that, it seems to somehow give them more “cred” with their differing opinions. I have heard time and time again those who have been hurt, or who in search of the Bible, have gone to Seminary or some other “higher learning” of scriptures say Tongues is not for us today and there is no such thing, it is only carnal or even demonic.
Then, these people will always tell of their experience and how they no longer believe what they once did after “researching the scripture”. Of course these things at times can be true that we are taught wrong things by good and well meaning people, or by those who are not well meaning. But it in “my opinion” how you were raised, good or bad, gives no validity to the truth of the scripture.
So therefore, I go to the scriptures and to the Holy Spirit for understanding. I have researched my Bible as much as most “students” of higher learning, but usually without so much of the “other documents” they too research along with the Bible. Again I would say sometimes this could be a benefit, but more times than not it is not.
Many or most after such “thorough research” come away with fallacies concerning the Holy Spirit and His gift. And with many of them they like to point out some things in the teaching of those they were early on inspired by, that was not scriptural, to refute what is scriptural but they do not have revelation from God on. I will not go into some of the fallacies on speaking in Tongues, because that does not give any substance to the truth about what the Bible says and what I experience daily.
Having said that, I have listened to the “debate” of Pre-trib and the such, it is obvious to me without much teaching either way that pre-tribulation is the only view that collectively fits into what the scriptures say to “common” people such as myself.
I appreciate you Dr. Brown, but I so disagree with your approach in this particular subject. Many of the arguments you present I could as easily argue against that view, with the same type of explanation you give for your view. In other words there is so much in scripture that without the Holy Spirit giving us clear interpretation, we can easily think it is the treasure in us speaking when it is us the container.
Now having said that I do believe our spirits are a new creation in Christ when born again of the Spirt, but the container of our spirit, can easily be affected or deceived by our mind and flesh, which can have more influence than we are aware of when we give it more “cred” than we should.
Respectfully I think many well studied men and women in the “higher learning” of scripture need to do what I understand one of the greatest Greek scholars of all time did, who refuted the gifts of healings and the baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in Tongues. He was led by God to take a year or so off soul searching through the Bible without, as much as is possible, without using any “presuppositions”. P.C. Nelson I believe was his name.
People can search and search scripture day and night and still come up with erroneous opinions, especially when it is backed up and credited by well studied individuals we look up to. I believe it truly takes an emptying of ourselves, for true revelation by the Holy Spirit to verify and solidify truth in us.
Please do not misunderstand me, I truly by trade am only a Carpenter-in the true sense, and I have learned things from you Dr. Brown that as I listened to you, prayed about it, and went to the scriptures I so love, have grown in certain areas. I do not believe in “throwing the baby out with the bath water” here, but I strongly disagree, sir.
And to be further honest with you as a human being and a born-again Christian, all of me would prefer the Pre-trib over the other offerings people interpret. Just as I prefer believing in the “healing” Jesus promises me, and being able to pray and worship in Tongues, gaining depths in my sprit by the Holy Spirit, which I also know the Bible teaches. But if it was actually a Post-trib experience, it will not change my relationship with Jesus for Jesus’ relationship with me has already changed me!
THERE IS NO ARGUMENT!!!
Yeshua himself says - Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Matthew 24.29)
Either we adhere to what Christ says, or we keep on holding to our own dogmas and indoctrinations.
That is the onset of the great tribulation. Not that the tribulation has ended when it is said "AFTER" Compare Matthew 24:29 to Revelation 6:12.
@@transformationofthebride2295
Please read to understand
Matthew 24 - 31
29Immediately After the TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other . (Rapture)
Did you notice the 4 horsemen in Revelation 6? That's the Great Tribulation in progression... Verse 12 begins the harvest or Rapture.
@@seedfarmer0416 The great tribulation time marker is with the abomination of desolation and NOT with the "beginning of sorrows". As I said you need to connect the passages of the Scripture together. Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3-8 and Daniel 12:1 describes this event. We need to consider the whole Scripture in arriving to an understanding. God bless you.
I understand where you are coming from, we all like to fit a square peg in a round hole in order to to make our church dogmas true. But sometimes you can only grasp new things by letting go of what's in your hands.
God didn't make his word difficult to understand, the same reason why he never used the philosophers of those days to reveal his Words... but instead he used the simple men.
Buddy, you have to let go of your church doctrines whenever the Bible is saying differently... because the Bible is our ultimate source. Moreso Yeshua himself TOLD us, his return will be AFTER THE TRIBULATION forewarned in verses before verse 29 of Matthew 24..
Its the season that prompts a harvest....it's the waters that prompted the movement of the Ark from its completion to its final destination..... and it's the wrath of the dragon (Satan, Rev 12) that will be the catalyst for the harvest (Rapture) of the Church.
Paul confirmed this in 2 Thessalonians 2.3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(Rapture day) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin(Antichrist) be revealed, the son of perdition;
And the Antichrist ushers in the Great Tribulation. There were 10 virgins says Yeshua.... 5 wise... 5 foolish.... choose the group you prefer.... Shalom.
@@transformationofthebride2295 Christ even prepared us ahead in general in John 16.33 - These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION : but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
He never said EXCEPT for the Tribulation of the Antichrist.
But there is one exception that he made in 1 Thessalonians 5.9.- For God hath not appointed us to WRATH , but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
And God's wrath commences the same day that we are harvested (raptured). That is why we will be in heaven by the 6th seal of Rev 6.
Could you please produce a "Consider This" video on this topic Dr. Brown? That would be good.
Really enjoyed this more please loved it
At the moment, I also don't think the rapture is pre tribulation BECAUSE Jesus gives a parable (MATTHEW 13) of angels going down to earth to separate "the wheat and tares" and Jesus explains this is the angels separating the righteous from the wicked to hell "at the end of the age."
I then believe the famous pre tribulation rapture verse by Jesus of "one is taken and the other left"(Matthew 24) isn't the good that is taken in "the rapture" but it is the wicked taken by the angels and thrown into hell which perfectly aligns with Matthew 13 I previously mentioned.
So when you start to look at all of these rapture verses through the lens of Jesus" parable of angels separating the "wheat and tares"/"Righteous and wicked", you start to see the uniformity of this all happening when Jesus comes back to rule and reign and finally establish his government on the earth "at the end of the age".
Some people believe the rapture has to occur before the tribulation because if Christians are still around, the earth won't get as wicked as the Bible describes in revelation. However, I believe that is incorrect because in Noah's day people still became very wicked. Today with the internet, peak oil, and overpopulation, the world will inevitable incur much turmoil, death, and wickedness due to starvation due to overpopulation and peak oil, the internet/hollywood will still pump out satanic values of "do as thou wilt", and globalization/tech will create a huge gap of have and have nots that all of this unrest you see in the Bible is easy to see happening just due to our world society's current trajectory.
Gospel Hand praise Jesus somebody else sees the truth! 🙌🏻
Lisa Boulier Jesus never spoke of a "pretrib rapture" and he even says that his coming is Matthew 24:29 Immediately After the tribulation.
The very first thing Jesus warns you of is MANY coming in his name DECEIVING MANY!
You don't really believe the "overpopulation" myth, do you? It's the same as the "global warming " myth and the "climate change" myth. Lies perpetrated by the enemy in order to kill off the population not just by abortion but also infanticide and the older folks.
Luke 17 read all note last verse those taken are fed to the birds, you have it backwards
I don't argue about this with anyone. This shouldn't be anything to argue or even debate. The point is to be ready. Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib...🤷♀️
There is a reference to the church after Rev 4. It's "Come out of her My People!" But the pretribbers will ignore it like John 17.
dpos89 That’s in reference to the Catholic Church and their Antichrist “New World Order Religion” also They are drunk with the Blood of Martyrs. The Romans crucified Christ at the behest of the Jews.
There will be "saints" on earth during the Tribulation just like in the OT, but they are not necessarily the Chrurch per se. Pretribers believe these saints are the elect Tribulation saints from Israel and the Gentiles who will repent after the Church is raptured.
@@tiqvahone I'd like to see scripture supporting there are "saints" not in the church. Ephesians 2. Psalms, and Daniel disagree with your opinion,
There are more references than that. We'd have to compile them.
I'm glade to see others really testing to see if what is popularly taught in churches about the Lord's return and our gathering back to Him if it's scripturally based or not. I think that most Christians don't realize the importance of the truth on this subject and I would like to use one example in scripture to show why this is. Consider the time of Noah before the flood and answer a couple of simple questions. Was Noah instructed by God of what judgement was coming on the earth? Answer Yes. Was Noah instructed by God what to do to prepare for that event? Answer Yes. Did Noah remain faithful and do all that God instructed him? Answer Yes. Was Noah saved by following faithfully God's instruction? Answer Yes. Dose the flood represent the great tribulation or the wrath of God upon the wicked? Answer the wrath of God. Noah already lived through his time of tribulation while building the ark and preaching to the evil world of the judgement to come. Now consider if Noah did not do these things that God instructed, would he have been saved from the wrath? Answer No. Simply put, to apply this to our time now and how it can effect our decision making choices believing in a pre-trib rapture example (1). You will likely not see a need to prepare as Noah did through his time of tribulation and the future events to come, because you believe you won't be here. (2). Concerning financial decisions, you won't see a need to manage your money and your plans concerning it in the midst of a tribulation scenario. For example you could more likely max out your credit cards and make purchases that you may not normally make because you believe you won't be here to have to pay it off. (3). From the perspective of a Christian living in America, You won't see a need to prepare for the judgement of God on America and what to do about it. (4) you won't likely recognize from the examples in the bible and the scripture teachings what you are instructed by God what to do about it. For that information check out ( Lion and Lamb Ministries) they will show you where in the bible we are instructed to do to prepare. Now consider the parable of the sower and the seed that was cast on rocky soil, it sprang up quickly symbolic of ( becoming a believer) but had no real root in symbolic of (the word of God) to endure the sun, symbolic of (tribulation and persecution) and the effect of that according to scripture (they fall away) because of tribulation and persecution. Finally I would encourage you to read Matt 24 from the perspective of only two comings of Jesus Christ. This should show you that Jesus actually warns against a early return in verses 23-28. Dose Jesus warn of false teachings of the subject last things (eschatology) answer yes specifically verses 3-5. Dose Jesus tell of us of the signs and events that happen before he comes? Answer Yes. Read Matt 24 and make a list of the prophecies that are not yet fulfilled that must happen first. It is also helpful to understand what scripture means of we will not know the day or hour of His return, that refers to the exact day and hour not to the things that must happen first before HE comes. Consider Stephan in Acts 7 it was time for him to return to the Lord and he looked up and saw Jesus standing at the right hand of God. The doctrine of eminence is simply this, either we return to the Lord if we die before he comes or we survive and live when He comes 1 Thess 4:13-18 and 1 Corr 15:50-58 at the sound of the (last trump) compare Rev 11:15 and compare that to Zec 9:10
At 20:00 Jesus clearly ties the parable of the 10 virgins to the parable of the talents where the unprofitable servant is cast into "outer darkness where there's weeping and gnashing of teeth". So if you say that parable is representing the "rapture "then you have to say those "left behind" go to hell.
It's interesting. When I studied this many years ago I interpreted Isaiah 26:20-21 the opposite way - as referring to the same thing as John 14:2-3 for the Chrurch. In other words, the church will be hidden by Jesus through the rapture in the rooms of their "mansions" in heaven where the Father is. Also, many end-time propehcy teachers point out that the John 14 motif is a Jewish one, the Jewish man goes away to his father's house to prepare a room there for him and his bethroed. Where is the Father's house? In heaven. When will the bethroed church be raptured? - when the wedding is near - not when they die!! Jesus clearly says that He would come and bring them to the Father's house just as in the Jewish motif. So John 14:1-3 is not referring to the death of the believer. It's the rapture of the Bride (bethroed/"fiancé") in preparation for the wedding in Heaven and to avoid the wrath of the Father that will be poured out on earth, since the Bride is not apointed to the Father's wrath.
Post trib.... Go up to meet the Lord in the air then come straight back to the earth? What's the point of meeting him in the air if he[the Lord] comes to the earth...makes no sense
Have you ever gotten on a plane? Why go up if you're going to land down on the earth again?
Because you go out to meet to the King when He comes. He does not then turn and go from whence He came.
It boils down to either the Messiah is coming to touch his feet on the mount of olives then sit on the throne of David judging the nations for a thousand years or the entire Bible is a joke and full of lies.
@@davidroberts3262 Well, I go up on a plane even though I know it will still land on Earth because I know when it lands it will be a different place than from where I was. There is a need for me to get to another place and the place is the means for me to get there.
But, is there a need for people to go to or to be another place when the Rapture happens?
Dr Brown answers this in the video.
When one meets a coming dignitary, one greets him at the gate, or as he's arriving, and then one accompanies him back to town for his visit.
Some also say that in the rapture Jesus doesn't set foot on the earth but hovers on the clouds to meet us and in the second coming Jesus steps on the land. What are your thought on that?
I say where does it say that?
Dr. Brown, may i begin by saying how much i think of you. You are not only a brilliant mind, but also a good soul. And you know, you may be totally right about a Pre-Trib Rapture. But allow me to bring a few things to light.
Now i should mention, up until a few years ago, i never really gave much credence to the idea. But as i examined scripture, and ironically not just those verses concerning a supposed a Rapture, i found myself wondering. Now to express my thoughts, may i remind you of the difficulty many in rabbinic circles have had regarding the coming of Messiah.
As i am well aware that you know, many rabbis have had a hard time wrapping their minds around how He could come lowly and humbly, and yet come in the clouds with great glory. According to their interpretation, in order for the scriptures to be valid, many concluded that there would have to be TWO messiahs. Now we, as believers, know that it is not two individuals coming, but rather one coming twice. Even during His time on Earth, the majority missed His appearance even when He was right there in front of them.
So my long winded point is, much in scripture depends on interpretation. And even the most learned amongst us can miss things due to our own way of seeing things. Now could you be right? Of course. But could the Pre-Tribers be onto something? Perhaps.
One thing that makes me wonder is the great number of individuals who have had dreams concerning the Rapture. Again, could this just be the result of overly anxious individuals? Certainly. But God did say in Joel that in the latter days he would pour out his spirit. And that many would have dreams and visions.
One point you brought up before, regarding some of the verses in question, is that when Messiah was speaking to His disciples, He was only speaking to His disciples and not future generations. And again, you may be right. But take me for example. i am a teacher/instructor with the military. But there are often times when answering one student's question, i am actually speaking in hopes that ALL my students hear my words. Although i am, at face value, seemingly addressing only one individual student, when in reality i am speaking to all of them. In hopes they might all learn my lesson.
In the end, who is right? Something tells me, my very gifted and intellectual brother, we shall all find out sooner than later. God bless and may HaShem continue to shine down on you, Dr. Brown. Shalom aleichem...from Canada. ALWAYS.
Posttrib believers don't deny a rapture, just the timing of the rapture.
Therefore, rapture dreams really have no bearing on one's stance on the timing of the rapture.
People have been having rapture dreams for years...decades or even longer...and yet no rapture has happened as yet. Who knows how much longer we have to wait. But one thing is for certain, it won't happen until after the tribulation and the revealing of the AC. People's dreams don't override Jesus' word, if they contradict what he says then it is obvious their dream wasn't from God. Read Jeremiah 23.
I wholeheartedly disagree with/ you on your Post Trib opinion, but I love ya brother!
I really enjoy dr.brown,even if my theology on eschatology is slightly different then his🙂 Concerning the absence of the pre tribulation teaching in history,it is correct to say that most of the early church fathers were post tribulation in there view,(although bishop Victorinus preached a pre tribulation rapture in the third century).But the pre tribulation teaching was one of the very first doctrines that the church lost very early in her existence.She also lost God’s promises to Israel very early on as well and started to hold to the view that God was finished with Israel,and that the church had replaced Israel.This also lead to the church turning from her belief in the pre Millennium return of Christ to earth to establish His Kingdom for a 1000 years(even though she had held to this doctrine for the first 300 years of her existence).But the Scripture is the believer’s Absolute Authority and not church history.And although the church has suffered horrendously throughout her existence,Jesus has promised(prophetically speaking)to keep us,the church,from the very hour of trial (the tribulation period)that shall come upon the whole world,to test those who dwell upon the earth-Revelation 3:10.The tribulation period is the time of Jacob’s(Israel’s)trouble,not the church-Jeremiah 30:7,Daniel 12:1,Matthew 24:21📖✝️
I personally don't want to marry a Christian who believes in the pre-trib rapture because I don't want there to be friction between us.
ROSE! I am one of those that believe what Christ says.. and He WANTS what you want. So.... KNOW HE hears you. He will give you the desires of your heart.. does HE say these things? Does He say.. if YOU and ME agree as ONE.. the Father will answer? Then KNOW what you have asked.. He has already been setting in motion.. He knew this before you asked..
And THINK! Where would such a thought come from? YEAH! Him! You WILL get a peace about this! Don't worry don't doubt for I AGREE in prayer with you. Jesus will come for us.. we need ot be watching and ready NOW! My wife believes the same.. yet.. WOW praise GOD I never even wondered before... pfft women are always a head of the curve! :) delight your self in the lord and HE will give you the desires of your heart! If you know He hears you you KNOW you have the petitions/prayers you asked for. His WILL is HIS WORD. DONT LET ANYONE rob you of what YOUR FATHER aka GOD..HELLO! Says... He is FOR YOU not against you.. HE LOVES TO GIVE! So... the one you want IS coming!
Dr Michael I believe the fall feast will be fulfilled just like the spring feasts were. In the sequence of days they had been observed for oer a thousand years.
What they teach about the feast of trumpets beginning a 7 year wedding I reject.
I believe the feast of tabernacles actually pictures the wedding.
And the ten days of awe correspond to "hide yourself for 10 days"
What do you think about the 7th trumpet in Revelation
Most post tribulation brethren may be unaware off the fact that some post tribulationist’s also believed in a two stage return of Christ,albeit,after the tribulation period.Joseph Mede believed in a two-stage pre-conflagration return of Christ based on his interpretation of 1 Peter 3:10.I simply say this just to let you see that pre tribulationist’s are not the only ones to believe in a two stage second coming of Christ📖✝️🙂
Not Afraid of the Antichrist is a great book! Pre trib doctine never made sense when I read Matt 24, Mark 13, and 2 Thess 2... Glad to learn about Historical Premillenilism and how scriptually solid this belief is.
No one can understand the prophesies without taking into consideration that the rapture was a hidden mystery until the Holy Spirit began revealing it thru Paul, and God hides mysteries in plain sight using things like parables and metaphors. Since Matt 24:29-31 was written in plain language before the mystery began to be revealed, it cannot be about the rapture.
On the other hand, Matt 24:26-28 shows the rapture before the great tribulation starts.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 the fact is that in both gospel accounts Jesus clearly states after the tribulation in those days he will physically return and then the angles will gather the elect. These two references are clear and foundational for Post Trib belief. There is no scripture clearly showing a pre trib scenario. Pre trib can't even get off the ground. This belief is purely built on secondary arguements.
@@kgw3152 said “the fact is that in both gospel accounts Jesus clearly states after the tribulation in those days he will physically return and then the angles will gather the elect. These two references are clear and foundational for Post Trib belief.”
Correct. The post-trib belief is founded on CLEAR sayings of Jesus, and many people believe this is clinching proof that post-trib is correct, but that’s because they ignore the facts that I already stated in my post.
You said “There is no scripture clearly showing a pre trib scenario…This belief is purely built on secondary arguements.”
The vast majority of rapture scriptures were written in veiled language because it was a hidden mystery of God until the Holy Spirit began revealing it thru Paul, and the vast majority of people never take this into account, so they stare right thru the truth every day. But Paul revealed the rapture mystery in plain language, and he taught the rapture rescue before the great tribulation in 2 Thess 2:1-8 by laying out the following sequence of events.
Paul said he was writing to support the rapture that they should not fear as though the day of Christ was present because that day cannot come until the apostasy happens first and the man of sin manifests. BUT there is one now restraining him that will continue to do so until it’s taken away (literal Greek says _ginomai_ ‘is born/comes into being/rises’ out of the middle). That’s the rapture rescue before the great tribulation.
I could cite other scriptures that show the rapture rescue before the great tribulation, but post-tribers reject them because they were written in veiled language. And that’s sadly ironic because it’s a clue that such scriptures are about a hidden mystery God, which is what the rapture is, so they could not be written any other way.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 thank you for your respectful response. I understand your point and continue to hold my view. Scripture admonished us not to go beyond what is written. I was Pre Trib for long time; I find Post Trib to be a more biblically sound doctrine. That said I guess we will find out at the end and laugh with joy in the presence of our Lord!
@@kgw3152, I also appreciate your civil attitude on this topic because many people aren’t, and I too used to be pre-trib, but then I read certain chapters over and over until the patterns emerged that led me to the rapture just days before the great tribulation starts. Here are some remarkable things for you to consider.
In Matt 24:15-25, Jesus described the great tribulation and warned everyone to not believe it if they should say the Messiah is here or there. Then in verses 26-28, he warned them to likewise not believe rumors the Messiah has come but not manifested publicly yet (so these rumors will be told before the great tribulation starts), and this is where Jesus described his appearing like lightning and eagles gathering to the dead. This sounds like the rapture before the great tribulation, and it was told in veiled language before the hidden rapture mystery was revealed, so these are prime candidates for rapture verses.
Then in Luke 17:22-37, Jesus answers a question about where people go when one is taken from a bed, a field and a mill while another is left behind, saying that eagles gather to the living. These verses also sound like the rapture and were told in veiled language, but what’s really amazing is that the two versions of the eagle metaphor describe the rapture of the dead and living in veiled language before Paul taught this in plain language in 1 Thess 4.
There is another eagle metaphor in Rev 12:14-17 in which a woman (bride of Christ or church in the commonwealth of Israel) flies to her place (place that Jesus promised to prepare in his Father’s house and take her to) that’s safe from the serpent for 3.5 years (duration of the Antichrist’s reign during the great tribulation), then the dragon makes war (because the one restraining the man of sin has risen out of the middle) against the remnant of her seed (Jews) who keeps the commandments of God (because they will have built a new temple to keep the Mosaic Covenant, thus fulfilling Dan 9:27a) have the testimony of Jesus (because Rom 11:25 says they’re hardened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in).
And Rev 7 shows this Israelite revival on earth while the raptured bride is welcomed into heaven, having just come away from (Greek _ek_ which lexicons show does not just mean “out of” but has a range of meanings) the great tribulation, thus fulfilling Jesus’ promise to keep some saints away from the time of testing that’s coming on the whole inhabited world to try everyone on earth.
PreTrib Rapture?
How much of what we believe comes from Biblical facts? How much derives from what is going on in our intellect?
How much comes from the heart? How much comes from emotional issues of fear vs. faith, and the issue of our personal devotion?
Yes, the devotional issue?
How about the strange thing that happened at midnight, towards the end of the voyage of the Apostle Paul?
Yes, what happened during the shipwreck on the island of Malta?
And what does that issue of devotion to ”stay with the ship!” mean for us?
see
EndTimePilgrim.org/acts27.htm
Gavin Finley
Fear is what the "pretrib rapture" is based on.
Unlike the foundation of the faith were Christians ENDURED in the faith were by Christ is that ROCK anything else is the foundation of SAND!
Pre-tribbers contend that the 'Day of the Lord' is a period of time which marks the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Unfortunately for them, scripture teaches very clearly something quite different. IN Acts (Peter quoting Jeremiah), says that the 'sun turns dark and the moon to blood, BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD COMES'. In Jesus Olivet discourse he says that, 'After the tribulation of those days,...THE SUN SHALL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, MOON TURNED TO BLOOD'. The Day of the Lord clearly takes place after the tribulation of those days. Once an understanding of The Day of the Lord is clarified, the argument is over. There is no pre-tribber on the planet who is able to reconcile this at all...
There is no pretrib rapture. The creatures from the bottomless pit with stingers do not sting those with the Seal of God on their foreheads. So those with the Mark of the Beast and the Seal of God are on the Earth at the same time.
, Rom 11:25-26 prophesies that Jews will have revival after the rapture, and that is seen being fulfilled after the 6th Seal in Rev 7, where a great multitude of saints (wise virgins) are welcomed into heaven while down on earth we see Jews another others getting saved or finally repenting while the great tribulation is briefly held back.
Therefore, the saints you talked about who don’t get stung are people who only got right with God after missing the rapture.
@@biblehistoryscience3530 so do you believe in the pre trib? Sorry its so confusing. I feel theres more scripture supporting pre trib.
@@megan1445, there is good evidence in the gospels and epistles that shows the rapture happening before the great tribulation starts, and because many people interpret the White Horseman at the 1st Seal as the Antichrist coming with a peace treaty, which is then followed by war and famine and death, they believe the rapture happens 7 years before the end.
I found good evidence that the Four Horsemen represent God’s judgement of Israel in the first century using the Romans to destroy Jerusalem and the Second Temple. The 5th Seal then represents what some call the church age or dispensation of grace.
Then the rapture happens at the 6th Seal, so Rev 7 shows angels holding back the great tribulation during an Israelite revival on earth while raptured church saints celebrate their entry into heaven, and this fulfills Rom 11:25 which says Israel is hardened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. And the great tribulation starts at the 7th Seal. So, I believe in a mid-trib rapture.
Some of the evidence I found to support this from the gospels includes the eagle metaphor in Matt 24:26-28 and Luke 17:37 which together show the snatching-away of dead and living people during a time when there will be rumors about the Antichrist, so it’s before the great tribulation. And that leads to an eagle metaphor in Rev 12:14 in which a woman flies to her place of safety from the serpent for 3.5 years, which shows a mid-trib rapture pretty clearly in my opinion. But this is just scratching the surface.
Bible History Science That is a DOCTRINE IN ERROR! The "rapture Cannot by pass the saints"!
Amen there is no "pretrib" scriptures anywhere!
The rapture issue is really a simple matter that many people have greatly complicated over the years. How can it be simple? There are only 2 main scriptures you need to know. These are 1. Mt. 13:24-30 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed ears, then the weeds also appeared. “The owner’s servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’ “`An enemy did this,’ he replied. “The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?’ “`No,’ he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’“
The 1st clue is "Let both grow together until the harvest." When you know when that time is you will have the answer. Does the Bible tell us when the harvest will be? Yes. Where in scripture is it? 2. The book of Revelation chapter 14; Re. 14:14-20 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one “like a son of man” with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested. Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia. [That is, about 180 miles (about 300 kilometres)]
The scripture in Matthew is a parable which is a story Jesus told to make a point. Every parable has truth in it even though some of the scenarios may not actually have happened exactly as described. So an explanation is needed.
Mt. 13:10-17 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “`You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ [Isaiah 6:9,10] But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it".
What about all the other scriptures about the rapture? Some are legitimate and some have nothing to do with it. This agrees with all the legitimate NT scriptures. I'll reference some here if you want to do further study: Mt. 24:30-31, I Th. 5:1-11, II Th. 2:1-12, I Co. 15:51-58.
“But hold fast what you have till I come. And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations.” Revelation 2:25-26
To keep His works until the end, one must continually abide in the doctrine of Christ. For those who hold fast and overcome, Jesus will give power over the nations. It will be a different fate for believers taking away from The Revelation of Jesus Christ.
“And if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:19
For those who do, God will take away their part in the Book of Life and the Holy City.
Doctrine…………….
1 Timothy 6:3
“If any man teach otherwise,
and consent not to wholesome words,
even the words
of our Lord Jesus Christ,
and to the
doctrine
which is according to godliness;”
Deuteronomy 32:2
“My doctrine
shall drop as the rain,
my speech shall distil as the dew,
as the small rain upon the tender herb,
and as the showers upon the grass:”
Proverbs 4:2
“For I give you
good doctrine,
forsake ye not my law.”
Matthew 7:28
“And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings,
the people were astonished
at his doctrine:”
John 7:16
“Jesus answered them, and said,
My doctrine is not mine,
but his that sent me.”
Deuteronomy 32:1
“Give ear, O ye heavens,
and I will speak;
and hear, O earth,
the words of my mouth.”
Bless you
@@michaelm254 Great verses. Shabbat Shalom!
I wish he would debate Dr. Gene Kim about the pre-tribultion rapture..
Professor William C Watson has written an excellent academic work on dispensationalism and the retribulation rapture proving this teaching goes back before the 17th century and predates Darby. Primary sources are quoted from as far back as the 1300s. “Dispensationalism Before Darby” by William C Watson is a scholarly & thorough work disproving the myth that Darby invented this. And scripture is clear on the coming of the Bridegroom for His Bride. I challenge Dr Brown to read this work.
Can anyone help me understand who the 24 elders are in Rev. 4?
Matthew 24:29-31*** wishful thinking is correct. Pre-trib was an assumption. One man's interpretation. Read the Bible for all truth😅
Unfortunately there are many pretrib teachers that accuse posttrib believers of being under demonic influence. E.g., Jan Markell.
Would you like me to explain to you from the Bible why she is right?
1st John 4:1-3 says...
"Dear friends , do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see if they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can know the Spirit of God : Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God but every spirit that DENIES that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not from God. This is the spirit of antichrist whom you have heard is coming and even now is in the world."
How does this support a pre-trib rapture? John places great importance on Jesus coming in the flesh because that was the only way He could take our sin onto Himself as an acceptable offering before God the Father. But He also took something else on Himself on the cross...God's WRATH...the WRATH we deserved for our sin. So when anyone teaches and believes that the Church will go through the Tribulation , which IS the WRATH of God on all Christ rejectors, they are really saying that Jesus did not deal with our WRATH problem on the cross. In effect, they are DENYING that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is an attack on the person and work of Jesus Christ. Notice where John says that thinking comes from..."the spirit of antichrist"...the demonic. Jan Markel is right according to John. There is a second warning about this by John in 2nd John where he also says do not receive anyone who "does NOT have this doctrine of Christ" or you will be participating in their wickedness.
The apostle Paul in writing to the Thessalonians on the topic of the rapture and Tribulation also supports what I have explained because he writes "You are NOT appointed unto WRATH" and notice the rest of the sentence , "but to obtain SALVATION through Jesus Christ our Lord". Right there, Paul ties the pre trib rapture right to the person and work of Jesus Christ on the cross where He dealt with our WRATH problem.
I am not smart enough to have figured this out by myself...the Spirit of God showed it to me one day.
I think the scripture supports a post- trib pre wrath gathering back to the Lord. It's simply this, believers will be here through the (seals) and the (trumpets) after the seventh trumpet we are gathered back to the Lord to meet Him in the air and then the seven bowls or vials are poured out on the rest of the world, these happen in a rapid fire fashion in a time span of days rather than years. That helps explain the difference of days in Daniel 12 the 1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days. The danger of believing in any form of pre-trib or mid-trib rapture is you won't be prepared or think you don't have any actions to perform according to what the scripture warns or instructs us about. Common since in military strategies is the element of surprise attack on the unsuspecting enemy. Search what Cory tin boom a woman that lived through the holocaust and what pre-trib rapture preachers were telling their congregations back then = (don't worry we will be raptured up before anything like that happens) then it came. Imagine yourself in that reality, you would likely think that you were left behind and then you could fall away from the faith. She went on to say that pastors should prepare their flocks to endure much tribulation and persecution spiritually and physically. God Bless you!!!
Great to be able to discuss these issues with “meekness and fear(reverence)-1 Peter 3:15.🙂The pre tribulation rapture view teaches that the body of Christ,the church,has throughout its history suffered terrible persecution and tribulation,just as Jesus said she would-John 16:33,Acts 14:21-22.But we don’t believe that the church will go through the time of Jacob’s(Israel’s) trouble-Jeremiah 30:7,Daniel 12:1,Matthew 24:21. Also Jesus said to the religious officers of His day that He was”going to Him who sent Me”,”and where I am you cannot come”-John 7:33-34.But yet He said to His disciples,concerning His returning to the Father to prepare a place for us,”that where I am there you may be also.And if I go to prepare a place for you,I will come again and receive you to myself that where I am,(ie,the Father’s house in Heaven)there you may be also”-John 14:1-3.If we are not going to the Father’s house in Heaven when Christ comes for us then why is He away preparing a place for us? Also John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 are parallel passages.In 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 Christ is returning for His church,but in other second coming passages Christ is returning to deliver His covenant people Israel and to defeat God’s enemies-Zechariah 14,Revelation 19.Clearly 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Zechariah 14 are referring to two different phases of the same second coming.
That's one of the reasons I support the pre-wrath 6th seal rapture taking place at Revelation 7:9. There is a collection of believers, both the living and the dead, before the wrath of God commences. We see this in Isaiah 26:19-21 and is also depicted in the parable of the 10 virgins in Matthew 25. They enter their "chambers" and the door is shut. Isaiah 26:20, Matthew 25:10. Connections to the examples of Noah and Lot with this too. Genesis 7:16, Genesis 19:10.
But this collection or gathering does not take place at the beginning of the 7 year period, but closer to the end and before the Day of Vengeance. The exact day is unknown according to Jesus in Matthew 24:36, but will occur after the abomination of desolation, but before God's wrath in flaming fire from heaven.
Luke 17:29-30 says that as Lot went out of Sodom on the same day as fire and brimstone rained down from heaven, even so will it be on the day the Son of Man is revealed from heaven.
We see all these things take place in between Revelation 6:12 and Revelation 8:7
Revelation 6:16
Son of Man revealed from heaven
Revelation 7:9
Believers removed from tribulation just like 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
Revelation 8:4-7
Fire and brimstone rain down from heaven
The tribulation which begins at the start of the 70th week is not God's wrath.
Revelation 6:16-17 and Isaiah 13:6-13 confirm God's wrath commences after the 6th seal with the signs in the sun, moon, and stars.
Psalm 76:7-10 confirms with the same phrase found in Revelation 6:17, "who is able to stand?" That there is the wrath of man, followed by the wrath of God. A deliverance of all the oppressed or meek of the earth is also here in verse 9.
Daniel 7:21-28 and Revelation 12:12-17 & 13:5-7 also confirm that the Great Tribulation which commences at the midpoint after the abomination of desolation is not God's wrath, but actually the exact opposite.
The Great Tribulation will be cut short according to Jesus in Matthew 24:21-22 and will be cut short by the commencing of the Day of the Lord with signs in the sun, moon, and stars in Matthew 24:29 which match those in Revelation 6:12-14.
The gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 matches Revelation 7:9.
The tribes of the earth mourning in Matthew 24:30 and Luke 21:26 matches those described in Revelation 6:15-17.
It's important to recognize that the signs in sun, moon, and stars in all the Olivet Discourse passages: Matthew 24:29, Mark 13:24 and Luke 21:25 do not describe Revelation 19, they are describing Revelation 6:12-14... and this Day is when God's wrath commences in flaming fire from heaven and "we" receive our rest as 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 and Luke 17:29-30 say.
Jesus is revealed from heaven here in Revelation 6:16.
They say, "hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb."
Jesus is seen in the sky here. Just as described in Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7
"Every eye", even those who pierced Him, see Him here at Revelation 6:16.
@@seasquawker The entire seven years is the time of Gods Wrath.God’s Wrath commences with the opening of the first seven seal’s-Rev 6:17.The pouring out of the bowls complete the seven year Tribulation period-Rev 15:1📖✝️
@markporter-thechurchhistor6784
That's not what Isaiah 13:6-13 and Revelation 6:16-17 say though. The Day of His wrath and vengeance commences with the signs in sun, moon, and stars. Isaiah 34:4-8 says this too.
Where is God's wrath declared at the first seal? If you can show me, I'll believe it.
Psalm 76:10 is also key. The Bible makes a distinction here between the wrath of man and the wrath of God, which is divided by this same "who is able to stand" phrase that we find in Revelation 6:17. This phrase was not placed here for no reason.
It's also found in Malachi 3:2, Nahum 1:6, and Joel 2:10-11
"Who is able to stand, who can endure?"
This is important because we are told that we are to pray that we are counted worthy to escape all the things that will come to pass and to stand before the Son of Man. Luke 21:36
And indeed, the innumerable multitude of all nations in Revelation 7:9 is escaping on the same Day fire and brimstone will rain down (Revelation 8:1-7, Luke 17:29-30)... and they are "standing" before the Lamb.
2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10 agrees that the Day of Vengeance and God's wrath commences when Jesus is revealed from heaven... in flaming fire with holy angels (Revelation 7:1-3). And there is a "rest" for believers on this day.
If the angels have not been permitted to harm the earth yet, then the wrath of God could not have commenced. Because multiple passages say they take part in the dispensing of God's wrath. See also Matthew 16:27, Mark 8:38, Matthew 13:37-41.
@@seasquawker Concerning Isaiah 26:19-21.Who is the Lord telling to hide in there chambers? The church? Of course not,the church wasn’t birthed until the day of Pentecost-Acts 2:1-4,1 Cor 12:13,EPS 2:14-18.Its the remnant of Israel that He is telling to hide during the time of Jacob’s Trouble(not the church)-Jer 30:7.Which is the Time of Israel’s Trouble-Dan 12:1. Concerning the darkening of the constellations;this not only occurs during the sixth sealed Judgment-Rev 6:12-17,but also at the end of the Tribulation period -Matthew 24:29-31.Also Rev 6:17-“For the Great day of His Wrath ‘HAS COME’”,is in the Aorist tense(meaning that the act has already commenced;rather than is about to start).Also concerning the sealing of the 144.000 of Israel.This is a parenthesis chapter,and not necessarily in chronological order.Concerning the Great Tribulation saints in Revelation 7,there is no mention of a resurrection.Infect,Rev 20 is clear that it’s the souls of those who have been beheaded,not there resurrected bodies,who are there;and that they won’t receive there resurrected bodies until Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation Period-Vrs 4-6.Also you will notice three groups mentioned in Rev7.The 144.000 elect of Israel,the Great Tribulation saints;and the 24 elders who represent the old and New Testament believers;up until there translation to Heaven through the “come up here”of Rev 4:1.The 24 Elders are already in heaven in chapter 4:4;before the Tribulation period commerces in Rev 6:1-2..Concerning Psalm 76:10 it say’s nothing about part of the tribulation being the wrath of man and the other part the Wrath of God.What the psalmist does say here is that,”the wrath of man shall praise you”🤔
@markporter-thechurchhistor6784
There's a resurrection occurring in Isaiah 26:19-21 and since we know the rapture cannot occur until after the resurrection, it must be taking place after this. We learn this from 1st Thessalonians 4. What happened to those who lived up until the coming of the Lord was a mystery until Paul revealed it, but now we know. They are raised up to heaven immediately after the resurrection and meet the Lord in the air. We can look at resurrection passages now, and see exactly when the rapture will take place. And it's consistent with the same timing as the gathering of the elect in Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 as well as the redemption in Luke 21:25. It occurs after the time of trouble according to Daniel 12:1-3. Jesus confirms this with His words in Matthew 24:29 and says the gathering of the elect will occur "after the tribulation of those days."
Concerning the chronological order of Revelation, chapter 7 is occurring during the 6th seal. Unless seals are opened out of order, then this is occurring in a chronological sequence. The angels also have not been permitted to harm the earth yet according to Revelation 7:1-3. So, the idea that the wrath of God had already been transpiring would violate Scripture. The 5th seal martyrs in Revelation 6 are also still asking, "how long until You avenge our blood?" Any wrath poured out would have needed to have been done without His mighty angels and of such a low level that the 5th seal martyrs are not satisfied to point that they don't feel avenged at all. Multiple passages say that the angels take part in the wrath including 2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10. We also need flaming fire and brimstone from heaven according to this passage and we see in Luke 17:29-30 as well. This 'fire from heaven' does not occur until the first trumpet in Revelation 8:4-7. This is the first instance of fire from heaven and also according to Luke 17:29-30 it must come on the same day as the Revelation of Jesus from heaven and God's people removed like Lot was from Sodom. Again, it says these things all must take place on the same day.
Revelation 6:16
Jesus revealed from heaven
Revelation 7:9
God's people removed like Lot from Sodom
Revelation 8:4-7
Fire from heaven
According to Revelation 8:1, only a half an hour separates the 6th seal from the first trumpet.
Here's a key thing. Who is Paul's audience in 2nd Thessalonians 1?
Church age Gentiles. And he's telling them that they can expect their "rest" on the same day as Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire to take vengeance.
If the pre-trib rapture was a real thing, then why does Paul think that the Thessalonians will not take part in it? He's got them going out with the tribulation saints at Christ's coming on the Day of Vengeance. Or is there no distinction? Is there just one rapture and one resurrection which occurs here on the Day of the Lord's vengeance? Again, this day is clearly marked by certain celestial signs: Isaiah 34:4-8, Revelation 6:12-14. This day that is associated with the signs in sun, moon, and stars like all the Olivet Discourse passages have is also the same as the 'Day of the Lord' in Joel 2:31-32. This passage also includes a deliverance on this day for anyone who would call on the name of the Lord. And not just Jews receiving deliverance here. Paul confirms this in Romans 10:12-13 when he quotes Joel 2:32 and says there is now no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon His name.
Lo and behold, we see the people who are caught up to heaven at this time in Revelation 7:9 just after the signs in sun, moon, and stars are indeed people of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues.
Revelation 20:4-6 speaks of the first resurrection, these are those beheaded for not taking the mark of the beast. This is compelling with regard to post-trib. rapture since Paul says in 1 Th 4:16-17 those who are alive and remain will rise after the dead are resurrected.
John Plummer What happened to the others? Those that are "ALIVE and REMAIN" are the ones that didn't die as marytrs which of course is the LAST DAY not LEFT BEHIND !
My question to those who believe in the rapture is why would Jesus warn His disciples about what will come to pass? Why would He tell them about all the signs, etc If none of His people will be here? It doesn’t make any sense.
God's Child, Rom 11:25 says the Jews are partly blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which means the Jews will be part of a revival that takes place after the rapture. We see this being fulfilled in Rev 7 where the sealing of 144,000 represents the post-rapture revival on earth, and saints around the throne at this time represent church saints being received into heaven.
In a nutshell, Jesus warned his disciples about various signs, and the Holy Spirit later inspired them to record these things, for the benefit of saints who will be rapture and for those who will only become saints or repent after the rapture.
Hide Brown, would love t hear your thoughts on IHOP …we need your maturity please speak up
I think you miss the point sir..great tribulation is diferrent from the wrath of God.
Actually it’s not. The last half of the tribulation (the great tribulation) is Gods wrath upon the earth as his last effort to get people to repent.
Perhaps some of us will be martyred prior to the tribulation? There have been many already!
It seems all is based on Daniel 9:24-27 and interpretation of 70 weeks. Definition of time is debated by many and the Rapture theories are just too specific based on man's interpretation of time. I have often wondered that if we go to Heaven when we die, who is left to be raised at the Rapture? Please clarify at least by following the sojourn of the soul after death. Thanks
Well I disagree. Not sure why on some points you never explain WHY you think that way. Like brides maids for one. Not written anywhere like that. Oh I can find a bible that uses that word. Cant read it written like that in the Greek. Lets not brake it down when we dont do that to "fallenaway" as to what that word can and does also mean.
So.. please share about Chuck Missler and Perry Stone. Why how did they miss all this? Chuck is cool.. "dont take my word for anything.. you study and search". Not many talk like that. He knew just because HE says so.. does not make it true right DR Brown?
Mary Wow th-cam.com/video/iNEJXq4HExw/w-d-xo.html
Perry Stone and Chick missler are wrong...i used to believe them myself and found out that their views don’t agree with what the Bible teaches.
Please read the Bible and ask the lord to reveal the truth to you personally. Don’t hold onto a belief because a preacher says it, kindly go through the word diligently and i assure you that you’ll find the perfect truth.
Matthew 24 29-31. It's clear as day
Good job except for the obvious mistake at 22:24, where you elude to a "glorious appearance", what was the mistake of the 1st century jews?? They greatly embellished all of the scripture until everyone was expecting someone 20 ft tall, etc, the same thing that you are doing good doctor.
The Pre-Trib position is the only view that says Christ could come today! For that reason alone tells me the other views are false!
You’ve accepted the idea of imminence which is not Biblical.
The dispensational view is SOOO popular that it is almost preposterous to hear another view for many of us who grew up in this. Imagine hearing postmillennialism while believing Left Behind is basically scripture. Crazy
Dr. Brown's position on end times is not post-millenial. He is post-tribulation. I think he is dispensational.
@@deezynar I know lol
Matthew 22 happening before our very eyes. Rapture is imminent! The trumpets could sound any moment - that’s where we are at.
The current witnessing of countless of God’s messengers prophets and watchmen prove so.
There IS a Pre- trib rapture! God’s elect are not called to wrath. Most of creation will be saved.
Prepare your hearts - Jesus is coming any moment!! ⛈🌪☄️🔥☝🏽☝🏽👑👑🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽💞
Hilarious comment considering Scripture tells us again and again that the Lord won't return until Israel repents and asks the father to send Him back.
Let's see, I read it & pray the Holy Spirit teach me & reveal me His word. I come away with a belief and then you the same thing. Problem is that we all come away with something different. Could this be a test to see how the Church handles it? I've seen so many heated arguments that led to sin & great divisions that bring greasy joy to satan his own damned self.
I still walk away with my belief, still open to the Holy Spirit's direction. Regardless of how it goes, my faith & love in Christ is unshakable. You can land a space ship on my front lawn with tiny reptilian little fellers debarking and still my faith will be unshakable. I know that one way or the other I'm going up to meet my Savior while everyone else is still arguing and disagreeing on this
Pre trib, mid trib, and post trib are all true and its in scripture. That's why many argue and can each prove it with scripture. Its not just one. Its God's harvest model throughout the whole bible and its revealed in the gospels. That's why all 3 gospels speak of the same story but different. They are speaking to 3 different groups of people. Luke is to the bride of Christ that goes pre trib. Mark is to left behind church that goes mid trib. Matthew is to the jews and they are post trib. Ex. In Mark and Matthew before Jesus dies on the cross he says "My God, My God why have you forsaken me" but in Luke he says "Father into your hands I commend my Spirit. In Mark and Matthew Jesus is given a purple and scarlet robe when going to the cross. In Luke he's given a gorgeous bright robe. In revelation during the tribulation you see purple and scarlet being referenced (no mention of that gorgeous bright color). In Mark and Matthew Jesus says "no man knows the day and hour" but in Luke he says watch and pray that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things. Clearly he's saying different things for different reasons. God doesn't take everyone all at once. Like a harvest field you take the first 10% first. Then its the 90%, then last its the corners and gleanings. its laid out in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and other scriptures. There's so many other scriptures I can't write them all here.
th-cam.com/video/yXVqye-9AUk/w-d-xo.html
Interesting. If you happen to see this comment, I would like to hear more about this.
Dr. Brown, my main questions to you are where is the Bema seat judgement of the saints in Heaven take place if not during a pretrib rapture? If our wedding feast is in Heaven, the Galilean wedding 7 days parallel to 7 year trib, how does it make sense for us to meet him in the air, referring to his second coming, then come straight down? How is the 7 year treaty with Israel going to happen if the restrainer aka the Church filled with the Holy Spirt is still here? It makes most sense from my years of studying eschatology that we have to be taken out of the way, Christ calls us up so he does not return to the earth at this time, we have our award ceremony in which we are judged / give account in Heaven by what we did on the earth, we have our wedding with Christ, then we return with Christ at the end of the tribulation to rule with Christ for a thousand year, and then the new Heaven & Earth happen.
That doctrine was created by Sperry Chafer and can be found in his systematic theology text where he wants to uphold the once saved always saved doctrine. Which, needless to say is a "Protestant invention" and has nothing to do with what the early church believed or what the apostles taught. But If you want to make a case for that Calvin's predestinarian framework is the only doctrine that will work: theologically. What Chafer did was take what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:10, where the Greek word bematos is used (which is simple a raised platform), and 1 Corinthians 9:24 ( on running the race a receiving the prize) to explain the once saved doctrine and how all believers will stand before God not for judgment; but for 'rewards' or 'loss of rewards.'
What about eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building and getting married? This argument was not mentioned is this video. If everybody is hiding in a cave and freaking out (Revelation 6:15-17, Luke 21:26) how is it these folks will be doing all of those things during the tribulation? Especially in the last months before His coming to earth? What are they going to be planting when the sun no longer shines? What are they going to be eating if famine is throughtout the land? What are they going to buy if a loaf of bread costs a days wage? Those in the days of Noah and Lot didn't see the tribulation coming. But in Revelation 6:15-17 and Luke 21:26 they know He is coming. They know they are in trouble. I do believe there is only one resurrection however (John 6:39-54, Revelation 20:4-6). I don't see a resurrection in Luke 17:22-37. I see a pre-trib rapture (snatching away) without a resurrection. Life is normal, then there is a flash of light and dead bodies.
@James Marquis Revelation 6:15-17 and Luke 21:26. I believe life will be relatively calm in the one taken, one left (Luke 17) verses. At the end of the age mountain size meteorites have hit the earth (Rev 8), earthquakes and freak storms are the norm. I would hide in a cave if that was going on. Earthquakes, freak storms and meteorites would be difficult to survive in a man-made house. Then the sky goes dark! I would be freaking out. Jesus said the end would be like a woman giving birth. When the labor pains start the pain is not as intense and frequent as it is before the birth (Matt 24:8). I think the tribulation will start without any sign of impending doom. When the abomination of desolation happens, the GREAT tribulation will start.
What's mental is all this attention on an apparent very few years right at the end of history?
I have read the Bible around 55 times all the way through. I, like Dr Brown, have always seen the rapture as part of CHRIST'S coming in the clouds and Matthew 24 it is after the Tribulation of those days. 2 Thessalonians 2 states that it will happen after the man of sin is revealed. This is not what pre-trib teaches but it teaches that the Final Antichrist will come after the rapture. This is my problem with the pre-trib rapture teaching.
I checked your comment on the word "keep" and actually "keep" is not an exact translation. It means "guard" or more literally "watch." Also, "keep" is King James English for "guard."
THERE IS NO ARGUMENT!!!
Jesus will come quickly, and keep us (me) from the hour of testing, which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. Case closed
keep you from the hour of testing,why would He do that when many were put to death and and tortured for many years. look at 70ad,many tribulations came upon the Good and bad.
"whole world" "earth" is correctly translated "land" see Luke 2:1. Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the whole world, (but the correct translation should be land)... God Bless you = )
John 17:15 -- “I do not ask that you take 'them out of the world', but that you "keep" them from the evil one.” The preposition "ἐκ" (translated “from”) in the Greek, does not always have a spatial meaning, and it certainly does not necessarily mean that "protection" can only be achieved by physically drawing the "church" out of the world. It clearly can mean "keeping through" trials and tribulations, by protecting or helping to endure while within the place of tribulation.The case is certainly not closed; there is an argument!!!
No where does it say in this passage that "the Hour" you refer to is the 7 year tribulation. That's requires a big assumption. In other places of the Bible, the word "hour" refers to a short period of time (days, not years). So not case closed. Show me anywhere where this passage in Revelation specifically talks about the 7 year tribulation.
That was spoken to one of the Churches addressed in Revelation, whereas another Church in the previous chapter was told that if they do not repent, they will be cast into great tribulation.
Paul seemed to believe he would see the Messiah in his life time.
So did the people Paul 1st wrote to. I guess Jesus making us a home and coming to get us so where He is we will be …...SOME didn't believe that was ONLY for the 12 :) I am ready NOW!
He was also killed brutally. Interesting.
Pay never believed Jesus would come in his lifetime
Paul taught in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12
The falling away and the antichrist come first .before the coming of the lord and our gathering to Him .
Paul taught post trib so did Jesus
Jesus says He comes after the tribulation , never before .
Pre trib isn’t in the bible
Thank you . There is no Pre TRIBULATION RAPTURE it's a Cultist view there is no Way I would look forward to this.. thank you for the Truth God Bless
Cultist view?
@@saquesas lately I am starting to understand what this means, don't know if this has always been the case but there are pretribbers now who think those who disagree with their doctrine aren't saved, or as they would put it " they're lacking the blessed hope".
I think we should remember that the pattern of the Jewish wedding feast isn't used in Scripture to exemplify the rapture, so it is not a valid argument when they weight of scripture is post-trib.
"Not appointed to wrath" is not a scripture about the rapture, either.
An old Jewish wedding...yeah.. I just talked about it here twice... not the word but..what are the oods and its JEWISH!
It's interesting. When I studied this many years ago I interpreted Isaiah 26:20-21 the opposite way - as referring to the same thing as John 14:2-3 for the Chrurch. In other words, the church will be hidden by Jesus through the rapture in the rooms of their "mansions" in heaven where the Father is. Also, many end-time propehcy teachers point out that the John 14 motif is a Jewish one, the Jewish man goes away to his father's house to prepare a room there for him and his bethroed. Where is the Father's house? In heaven. When will the bethroed church be raptured? - when the wedding is near - not when they die!! Jesus clearly says that He would come and bring them to the Father's house just as in the Jewish motif. So John 14:1-3 is not referring to the death of the believer. It's the rapture of the Bride (bethroed/"fiancé") in preparation for the wedding in Heaven and to avoid the wrath of the Father that will be poured out on earth, since the Bride is not apointed to the Father's wrath.
I would write on Facebook but in my experience it only amplifies success. It is so painful to hear people put their faith in it. Who is to say that it is not a Gordian Knot (that is a band I listen to)! Thanks
Isaiah 26:20 is referring to the Jews who will be protected during the tribulation, not the church. Daniel 9:24 says "thy people" and "thy holy city". Daniel's people are the Jews and Daniel's city is Jerusalem. Revelation 3:10, the church will be kept from the hour of temptation that will try them that dwell upon the earth. The trumps of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 1 Corinthians 15:52 are not the seventh trump in Revelation 19:15. The trumpet soundings in Revelation are unto judgement and devastation, but the resurrection trumpet is unto union with Christ with eternal joy and peace.
Question: doesn't there have to be a Rapture type of event on the last day?
We know that "Flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God". So, if you're a believer on the last day when the New Jerusalem is coming down from heaven you've got a serious problem. How will the believer enter into the New Jerusalem?
Two verses clearly explain the problem and solution; Revelation 21:1-4, and 1 Corinthians 15:51-55.
"Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God... there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying... Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed... and [when] this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: 'Death is swallowed up in victory'.”
Death still reigns through the millennium, so clearly there will be people who are labeled as "the dead in Messiah" who themselves must rise first. Furthermore; the people who are living when New Jerusalem comes down must be changed in order to enter. Death is "The Last Enemy [to be] Destroyed" on the last day when New Jerusalem comes down.
Our Lord and Savior said at what time He would raise up His Body (four times) in the Book of John:
Jn 6:39 "... that of all He has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."
Jn 6:40 "... [ whosoever] believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."
Jn 6:44 "... and I will raise him up at the last day"
Jn 6:54 " whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
In the Book of John, Martha concerning her brother's death said to our Lord and savior " ...I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day (Jn 11:24)". Clearly, John who wrote the Book of John, Martha, Paul, and our Lord and Savior Jesus all knew this to be true (so what's our problem?).
Conclusion: there has to be a Rapture type of event on the last day.
Perhaps if you subtract one of the elements (such as blood) that our new bodies will have flesh and bone, and we won't have blood, or what is commonly referred to as blood anymore.
Love Dr. Brown but I totally disagree with his view on the Rapture. The very latest the Rapture of the Church can happen is when Christ appears at the Sixth Seal which is before the worst part of the Tribulation period. Why? Because we know that when we see Him we shall be like Him (1 John 3:2) and at the Sixth Seal, it explicitly says that the heavens will depart as a scroll and those on the earth will see Him and say "hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb..."
But I believe there will be a rapture even before the Sixth Seal event for those living in this Dispensation of Grace because of Matthew 24:14. The Gospel of the Kingdom is going to be preached again which is salvation by faith plus works, repentance, and water baptism. The Gospel of Grace is salvation by grace through faith and not works and these two do not mix. This Dispensation of Grace must end before the Gospel of the Kingdom can be preached again for salvation.
At the Rapture, believers are taken up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thes 4:17) But at the Second Coming the unbelievers are taken (Matt 24:40-41) and killed and the remaining believers are left (not raptured) on the earth to populate the millennial kingdom. But, if every believer is raptured and given glorified bodies at the Second Coming, who will populate the Millenial Kingdom?
It's hard enough getting by right now. For anyone who thinks they will somehow make it through the tribulation period then I think you need to read the Book of Revelation again. How will you buy or sell? If you don't starve to death because you didn't take the Mark then you will be executed. No "Blessed Hope" there.
God kept his people alive for 40 years- 7 won't be a problem. Plus he gave them food, water, light, protection and nothing wore out.
as someone who grew up with the #pretribrapture teaching... i have mused on why, if the father was meaning to make #onenewman in #yeshua, then why does he treat Israel (+++those joining the commonwealth and jews; having put their faith in messiah+++ plus the jews that will acknowledge him in the redemption), in two parts.
If the #socalled church (+++) are the ones to go to the marriage supper of the lamb, well i'm asking myself; isn't that like replacement theology, to think that we'll be the bride and not physical israel with us; the #onenewman?
either way... it's a comfort to know ..he is able to take that which we've committed to him against that day.
Hallelujah anyhow!!!
Well I am one of those that read the bible and come away with JESUS is coming any moment and before that great and awful day of the lord. One.. Lot "as long as you are here I can do nothing" Lot was just ONE righteous and God would have not touched those cities for 10. There are MILLIONS now.. has God Changed? And Jesus said HE would and would come back.. no? Went to HIs Fathers house to make US a home..so WHERE (where did He go? Where is He?) He is we will WILL be. That NEVER happen...yet.
And the people Paul 1st wrote to thought Jesus came and they missed it.. the restrainer.. something that has ALL power over the lawless one. Gee WHO in the world has MORE power then the LAWLESS one? THE CHURCH. Jesus gave you and me ALL power over the enemy and NOTHING shall by any means hurt you..
Jesus cant lie.. HE WILL come in the clouds as the angels said the way PAUL or God said.. what is NOT written is WHEN! Replacement... I cant see that. Do you know how many JEWISH people LOVE JESUS? ALL the CHURCH ..all that believing in JEsus that are watching and ready..
Would those go that are not watching not ready go? Well 5 virgins were not ready.. were not watching.. are you WATCHING NOW or looking at some DATE in the future?
Well how about this.. where in the word has GOD promised tomorrow? NO WHERE! We should be always watching NOW ready NOW! Then you will NEVER miss Him. I dont follow PRE MID OR POST. He will come get me.. HE promised. I will NEVER see His wrath. Satan wilL NEVER have ANY power over JESUS and the SWEET SWEET Holy Spirit in me... its WRITTEN!
So.. folllow what HE said.. and ask Him... about CAUGHT UP .. you will NEVER get an answer.. strange huh.. for something not happening you think HE would tell you show you in HIS word....yet HE will not.. He does not know..for of those times and seasons ONLY the Father knows.. yet Jesus told the 12.. I WILL Come back for you.. a LIE? If He KNOWS when HE is coming.. He mislead them lied..
or.. if ALL He knew was after He died rose PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS.. that nothing had to happen for HIm to come but the Father saying GO! Then He told the truth.. He is COMING... the way He left
In Revelation 18:4 where God tells His people to come out of Babylon,God’s people referred to here are not the body of Christ,the Church,as we will have already been caught up into Heaven through the “come up here” of Revelation 4:1-4.In Revelation chapter 4 the 24 elders,(the church) are already robed in white,crowned,and reigning with Christ in Heaven on 24 thrones.Jesus said to His disciples that “you shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just”-Luke 14:14.Therefore it is clear that verse 1 of Revelation 4 is a picture of the translation of the Church to heaven at the resurrection of the just.Verses 2-3 represent the Judgment seat of Christ,(the Bema seat),where we see the Sardius lamb of God and our soon coming Jasper King(the Lord Jesus Christ)sitting on the Throne.Then In verse 4 we are reigning with Him in Heaven.The church is already caught up to heaven in revelation 4:1,whereas the tribulation period does not commence on earth until Revelation 6:1-2.Therefore God’s people spoken of in Revelation 18:5 are those who have come to faith in Jesus during the tribulation period,after the church has been removed to Heaven-Revelation 7:9-17.As for Isaiah 26:20,God was speaking to His people Israel,just as Israel will have to hide themselves again during the tribulation period,because the tribulation period is the time of Jacob’s trouble,not the church-Jeremiah 30:7,Daniel 12:1,Matthew 24:21-22.
Jack Hibbs uses John 14 to prove the pretrib dogma but I don’t see anything in those verses that indicates anything about a pretrib rapture. I don’t get it
I didn’t even know you were post-trib. Awesome
The Lion and his lamb I don’t think Brother Brown’s arguments were conclusive... I came to the post trib conclusion years ago, despite my pre trib upbringing, because of what I saw in the Bible. Calling each other’s views silly is not a good way to start a discussion. I made the video below. Pre trib is a nice thought, but not vindicated in the scriptures
th-cam.com/video/vhCYOESfNTE/w-d-xo.html
Jason Kerrigan, Romans 5:9; 1st Thess. 1:10 and 1 Thess. 5:9-11, let me know that the Church won't be here for the tribulation period, which will be God's wrath poured out on this rebellious world. Jesus Christ already took God's wrath for us on the cross.
The same way Noah and his family was safe on the ark above the judgment and wrath of God, the Church will be safe in heaven above while the tribulation period rages down here on earth.
Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Luke 21:36. The only way I know to escape those thing that shall come to pass is to raptured out, or die before they happen. It will be those who get saved after the rapture who will have to endure to the end.
@@Tazz77 "The only way I know to escape those thing that shall come to pass is to raptured out, or die before they happen." Revelation 3 tells us how to escape.
*"Because you have kept the word of My perseverance,* I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."
This is a conditional promise made to those who keep the word of his perseverance or patience (meaning his patience in coming back). This is discussed in 2 Peter 3. He is patiently waiting to return so that we can repent. Daniel even talks about people trying to make the vision come to pass but that it won't until the *appointed time.* So how are we kept from the tribulation if we are here on the earth? The same way Noah and his family were, in a place of protection which is here on the earth. Daniel tells us where this place of protection is during the last 3.5 years. The other prophets verify this place of protection and our being there. You still have a few years to learn about this. Shalom
The Lion and his lamb
It is considered silly and foolish to ENDURE in the faith huh?
NEWS CONCERNING THE RAPTURE! The beheaded christians from revelation 20: 4-5 have gone through the great tribulation and take part in the first resurrection. In the rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17 the dead in Christ will rise first,before the living will be caught up together with them. This means that the rapture can not be before the tribulation!
i believe in a mid/post. if God crushed the Apostles and put them through what he did. who am I to think he would spare me from Trib, and persecution. not his wrath. but the latter
There are five places in Revelation where we are told that no Christian survives the Tribulation and the antichrist.
Rev 6:11 " They were told to wait a little longer until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be KILLED as they had been , was complete." Complete meaning ALL of them.
Rev 7:14-16 " These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation...they will no longer hunger or thirst or be scorched by the heat."
Rev 13:7 " He was given power to wage war with the saints and overcome them."
Rev 13:15 " He was given power to give breath to the image so that it could even speak and cause all who refused to worship the beast or take his name or number, to be KILLED."
Rev 20:5 " And I saw the souls who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus."
Therefore, the phrase "We who are alive and remain" can't possibly support a post Trib rapture, because no Christian is left alive.
Then there is the misuse of Mathew ch 24. The context is Jesus answering questions from His Jewish disciples about Jewish things, namely, what will happen to Israel. Notice all the "Jewish only" references Jesus uses to answer their questions about the signs of the end: "the abomination of desolation"..."the temple'..."the sabbath"..."the rooftops"..."the Judean countryside"..."the elect"...and perhaps even "the fig tree".
In the book of Zechariah ch 13 vs 8-9 it says...
" In the whole land" declares the Lord, "two thirds will be struck down and perish; yet one third will be left in it. This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold."
This one third that Zechariah was talking about was who Jesus was referring to when He said "Unless those days had been shortened not even the elect would survive". So Mathew ch 24 has nothing to do with the church, it is about ISRAEL.
You are confusing when God talks to the Jews left behind during the tribulation and when He talks to us, The Church.
The Bible is written for the ages, not just to The Church.
For instance, the "you go out" admonition is to the Jews. They flee Jerusalem and go to a special place, likely Petra, where they are to hide and will be kept safe until the end of the tribulation. They are to stay there until it is over.
Also, the tribulation is called the time of Jacob's trouble.
That there is a division between Israel and the gentiles is clear. There is a fullness of the gentiles in contrast to when the Jews are brought in, fullness of gentiles referencing The Church. There is also a "time of the gentiles", referencing the time while Jerusalem is being trodden down by the gentiles before she again is fully under the control of the Jews.
If you don't rightly divide The Word of God between between Jews, gentiles and The Church, which is paramount to correctly understanding eschatology, end time events, you cannot understand the end time events. There is ultimately one Kingdom of God, but there are important differences within it.
God took Enoch out from the earth before the flood. What do you think he represents?
He also took John up to heaven before He unfolded the events to take place within the tribulation period. Some timing, hah?
you know .. for me it was Jewish people that asked about the end.. and He told them what they will see. No Christian asked Him.... I dont know.. I just know Jesus left.. and HE not man He said He would come back for me.. I will never see His wrath.. I have ALL power over the enemy.. ALL. The restrainer is holding back the lawless one..SOMEONE SOMETHING that has ALL power over him.
And ONLY when SOMETHING is taken out of the way does the lawless one come out in the open to do lying wonders.. something he cant now. I HAVE ALL power over him..aka the CHURCH! I can be wrong...yet I live as if JESUS is coming NOW! I will NEVER miss Him]
Now... can those not watching not ready still go?
@@maxzeblade I think your right. When Jesus said these things He had not been crucified yet so the Church age had not even started yet. Like you both said He was adressing the Jews
Max Blade
So the "pretrib rapture" occured and million disappeared into thin air those Jews just ignore that sign huh?
@@slojogojo2766 Remember, they could disavow Jesus, who walked among them and preformed countless astounding miracles.
People believe what they want, until God directly reveals truth to them.
Many Jews of today think Jesus is wicked, it won't matter that millions of Christians disappear. They will come up with an excuse for it, you can be sure.
We are saved by GRACE through Faith, not of our works lest any POST-TRIBBER boast, where's the GRACE? This alone debunks this nonsense.
I'm more of a pan trib, meaning whatever happens it will all pan out , but I think that saved by grace is in reference to God saving our soul. I mean, isn't that what's truly important, to say that saved by grace means we don't have to go through any tribulation would be false because there are Christians around the world killed or persecuted every day. God's grace is allowing us to spend eternity with him, in his presence, but we are warned many times that we will be persecuted, so I think that's a bit of a weak argument.
The more I've studied, the less I think there will be a pretrib rapture. If Jesus was tortured and murdered, how do we think we're higher than Him. But if Im wrong, I'm good with it 🙂
Concerning Rev 3:10, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."
Before the rapture event [2Thess 2] two events are to be fulfilled The first is the 'falling-away' and the second is the 'great tribulation'. The great tribulation can only happen after a new temple has been built in order to fulfill verse 4, "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
When that happens the command is Mat 24:15, "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand). Then let those in Judea flee into the mountains..."
So, we are still living living in 'the hour', 'the season', of the 'falling away'. There are thousands of denominations and hundreds of Bible translations and it from this one will be protected Mat 24:11-, "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."
The Gospel will be preached, during the great tribulation by the three angels [Rev 14:6-12] and then the rapture Rev 14:14-, "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And He that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped,."
The rapture saves the saints from the wrath of God that then follows, Rev 15 and 16. The saints will be in heaven for many months before returning back to earth for the marriage supper Rev 19:9 and thereafter to reign with Christ the 1 000 years.
.
Revelation 11:18
“And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,
and the time of the dead,
that they should be judged,
and that thou shouldest give
reward
unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints,
and them that fear thy name, small and great;
and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.”
Revelation 22:12
“And, behold, I come quickly;
and
my reward is with me,
to give every man according as his work shall be.”
Matthew 16:27
“For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels;
and then
he shall reward
every man according to his works.”
Isaiah 40:10
“Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold,
his reward
is with him,
and his work before him.”
Isaiah 62:11
“Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh;
behold,
his reward
is with him,
and his work before him.”
Bless you
@@michaelm254 Thanks, Michael and yes, Rev 11:18 is the rapture event, “And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come,
and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth,”
saving us from God's wrath and the time of judgement will be at hand and 11Tim 4:7- will be fulfilled, "I have participated in the contest, the worthy, I have completed the course, I have guarded the faith: There is now set aside for me the wreath of the confirmation, with which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will reimburse me at D-day, and not only to me-but also to all who have eagerly awaiting the arrival of Him.
What's more is, Dr. Michael has it wrong: Jesus is not busy 'building houses' Joh 14:2-, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
The translators have it wrong. Do note the 'if I go'. That implies that Jesus might not go to do whatever.
Compare Acts 25:16 where the same word 'place' is translated 'opportunity', "I answered them that it was not the Roman custom to sentence a man to be punished until the accused met his accusers face to face and had an opportunity to defend himself against the charge," ISV version.
Jesus was on his way to Gethsemane where He pleaded God the Father to 'let the cup pass, "And He went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt," Mat 26:39 and He did drink the cup.
The point is, Jesus drank the cup and in so doing He prepared an opportunity for those who are prepared to be born again that they can be where He will be; in the City, with streets of gold and the many mansions.
Dr. Michael has no teaching concerning the rebirth event.
@@johannesvangend2598 Romans 14:11
“For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord,
every
knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.”
Romans 14:12
“So then
every
one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
Isaiah 45:23
“I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me
every
knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”
The key Word of YHVH here is ……….. Every
and that is in Revelation 11:18
Bless you
@@johannesvangend2598 Luke 21:36
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of man.”
Revelation 6:17
“For the great day of his wrath is come;
and
who shall be able to stand?”
every one takes a knee.
Bless you
@@michaelm254 What is the point you are trying to make, Michael?
After the rapture thats it. There is NO SECOND CHANCE FOR THE PEOPLE LEFT BEHIND. if thats the case why worried about being raptured if you're going to have YET ANOTHER chance. But not only another chance, but know you know Jesus exist.
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. The modern World English Bible translates the passage as: Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.
It just doesnt add up. God is merciful true enough, but come on smh
No that’s not true. Countless numbers will be martyred for their faith. Angels will traverse the heavens preaching the gospel and Israel will have 144000 chosen to preach the gospel all this plus the two witnesses in Jerusalem. Many will be saved during the tribulation.
The Bible states in Daniel 8:1-27 Daniel speaks of his vision, then in 9:20-27 Gabriel comes down to give Daniel the skill to understand. :24a, “Seventy weeks are determined for YOUR People and for the Holy City to FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION, (Rejection of Messiah) TO MAKE AN END OF SINS! To make Reconciliation ( Christians are already Justified of sins, and are the Righteousness of God IN Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:21) for iniquity. It has even been titled “The Day of Jacobs’ Trouble.” and is specifically for Israel. As Christians We are Reconciled IN Christ, Romans’ 5:11 (on Earth, we are the Body of Christ)and are Fully Justified by the Blood of Christ and will not be judged again. When Daniel was written the Church/Body of Christ was an Unknown/ Mystery so how could Jacobs’ Trouble be applied to the Church? The Judgement is for the Jews and Unbelievers will also be caught in it, 144,000 (12,000 from each of the 12 Tribes of Jews) Rev’ 7:1-8 and many Saints shall come out of the Tribulation 7:1317. The Church is never seen again after Revelation 4 and Scripture would be totally amiss/wrong IF the Church is around in the Tribulation and goes unmentioned. John 17:17, “ Sanctify them by Your Word for Your Word is Truth.” Numbers 23:19, “For God Is NOT a man that HE SHOULD LIE.” Lot and his wife and two daughters were Raptured out of Sodom and Gomorrah; Genesis 19:12-29 (minus his wife/ turned into a Pillar of Salt, Gen’ 19:26). Lot pleaded with the Lord that if He found any Righteous People would He spare the City, Genesis 18:23, And Abraham came near and said” Would You destroy the Righteous with the wicked? :24, “Suppose there were 50 Righteous”:28, “suppose there were 5 less” (45), :30, “Suppose 30 should be found there? :31, “Suppose 20 be found there.” Finally Abraham got the Lord down to 10 Righteous People:32, And He said “I will not destroy it for the sake of 10.” The Two angels took hold of Abraham, his wife and two daughters hands and removed/Raptured them and set them Outside the City.Genesis 19:16, they fled to Zoar. The Angel told Abraham in 19:22, “Hurry, escape there. **FOR I CANNOT DO ANYTHING UNTIL YOU ARRIVE THERE** Abraham was Considered Righteous, How Much More the Church? Who are the “Righteousness of God IN Christ Jesus.”!!! THE RIGHTEOUS HAVE TO BE REMOVED/ RAPTURED OUT **BEFORE** JUDGEMENT CAN HAPPEN. MARANATHA 🙏🏻
Woah,Brown is not even aware that IS 26;20 is indeed mat 25,the pretrib rapture!!!!!Wow,that goes right over the postribbers head!!!!
Isaiah 26:21. For behold the LORD comes”out of His place”, sounds more like a physical visible coming to judge, rather than a secret rapture.
@@Leo-e5f7y At the rapture the Groom comes out of his place to fetch his bride. The only time I ever hear the term "secret rapture" is from postribbers.
Question are you a Follower / Servant of Jesus ?
Matthew 12:18
“Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.”
Isaiah 42:1
“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”
Isaiah 53:11
“He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.”
Matthew 18:23
“Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.”
John 12:26
“If any man serve me,
let him follow me;
and where I am, there shall also
my servant be:
if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.”
Question are you Following ?
If Yes then you are a servant !
John 15:20
“Remember the word that I said unto you,
The servant
is not greater than his lord.
If they have persecuted me,
they will also
persecute you;
if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.”
Revelation 6
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true,
dost thou not judge
and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes were given unto every one of them;
and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season,
until their fellow servants
also and their brethren,
that should be…..killed
as they were,
should be
fulfilled.
Revelation 7
13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me,
What are these which are arrayed in white robes?
and whence came they?
14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation,
and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
So if the martyrs / servants of Jesus are still Dying for Christ in the tribulation
And the dead in Christ rise first and the martyrs / servants
are also the dead in Christ how can anyone go before the
Last ONE is martyred ?
Ephesians 4:5
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
Galatians 3:28
“There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all
one in Christ Jesus.”
Bless you
Michael M you got it I think right on.. nobody is rising until Revelation 20:5 “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION”.. 🙌🏻 thank Jesus His Witten Word!
The temple must be built first
good one dr brown the rapture our gathering is after the tribulation.
@@jare3845 Events in the sixth seal, seventh trumpet and seventh bowl of wrath line up. They happen at the same time. Notice what happens at the last bowl of wrath.
Revelation 16:12-18
*The sixth angel poured out his bowl* on the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, so that the way would be prepared for the kings from the east.
Armageddon
And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole [i]world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. *(“Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.”)* And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.
Seventh Bowl of Wrath
*Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl* upon the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple from the throne, saying, “It is done.” And there were flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder; and there was a great earthquake,..."
Yeshua returns at the last bowl of wrath at Armageddon. Look what Job prayed to God.
Job 14:12-14
"So man lies down *and does not rise until the heavens are no longer, he will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.*
“Oh that You would hide me in Sheol, that You would conceal me *until Your wrath returns to You*"
Job said we would not rise until the heavens are no more (stars fall, the sun and moon don't give light). The dead must rise before the living are caught up. But Job goes further and makes a request. His request to God is that he would be hidden in the grave until God's wrath returns to him. Amazing.
There are other verses that go with your seal verses, proving the timing of our Lords return after the tribulation. I think you are post-trib but maybe don't realize it because you haven't discovered those verses yet. God bless.
You know what your saying Dr Brown does not say. Dr Brown didnt prove there is no PRE caught up. He makes that clear. He knows there is NOTHING in the word of God that PROVES there IS a pre trib or there is no pre trib. NO ONE can show a verse. Just the classice "what that really means, What JEsus really means" so forth.
Apostasy.. falling away? You do know that can also mean "departure". Which as you see can mean both. People leave that out..
Lawless one. Who has all power over Satan? So you believe.. the lawless one.. Satan will be out in the open doing lying wonders and has power over you? For during that time does it not say he does? hmm how can this be? Well did not A GOD give you ALL power over the enemy? Is not greater is HE that is IN YOU IN YOU than he thats in the world?
You telling me.. the CHURCH that has ALL POWER over the enemy is going to just SIT BACK and let Satan be out in the open demons fallen angels what ever and not BIND HIM in JESUS NAME! Not command him to go in JESUS NAME...does not he have to FLEE FROM YOU! You telling me GOD is going to give Satan power over HIM that IS IN YOU that HOLY SPIRIT aka GOD that is with you FOREVER?
My bible says only WHEN the restrainer is taken out of the way.. THEN something that has ALL POWER over the lawless.. when its taken out of the way.. THEN wow he comes out in the open.. doing lying wonders ...wow just like he did BEFORE Jesus came..
Didnt JESUS tell YOU I go to make you a HOME so where I am YOU WILL be? Did HE lie to them? FACE TO FACE He said that. You think JESUS NEW He was not coming till the END and just felt sorry for them so He lied to them? Or He didnt know when,
CAUGHT UP will happen NO WHERE does it say HINT AT PRE or MID or POST! So if NOW is all you have then be ready NOW.. watch and pray expect Him NOW! Or He will come as a thief and TAKE something and you NEVER knew He came..
FACT no where after Chat 4 is the CHURCH EVER talked about.for something that ALL are STILL HERE WOW He forgot? OR no one knows when.. be ready
@@maxzeblade Yeshua said the wheat and tares grow together until the *end of the age* and that at that time the *tares* are gathered out *first.* Yeshua also said we would be gathered *immediately after the tribulation of those days.* Yeshua also said he is *coming like a thief at the seventh bowl of wrath.* Paul said the dead in Christ will rise *first* and that the living believers will in no way precede them. So we can study to see when the dead in Christ are raised to find out when the rapture takes place (because the dead in Christ rise *first* and the living in no way precede them). Revelation 20 tells us the *first resurrection * includes tribulation martyrs...we in no way precede them. Also, Job asks that God hide him in the grave until God's wrath returns to God (this happens at the seventh bowl of wrath). You have a lot of passion but you are listening to false teachers. Just read the bible and direct your passion correctly. Said in love.
Question please are in a church with
God in it ?
1 Corinthians 14:33
“For God is not the author of confusion,
but of peace,
as in all churches
of the saints.”
And are you in the body of Christ ?
Ephesians 4:12
“For the perfecting of the saints,
for the work of the ministry,
for the edifying of the
body of Christ:”
If yes ……..
Revelation 14:12
“Here is the patience of the saints:
here are they
that keep
the commandments of God,
and
the faith of Jesus.”
Ephesians 4:5
“One Lord, one faith, one baptism,”
Galatians 3:28
“There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female:
for ye are all one
in Christ Jesus.”
Colossians 3:11
“Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision,
Barbarian, Scythian,
bond nor free:
but Christ is all,
and in all.”
1 Corinthians 12:13
“For by one Spirit
are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews
or Gentiles, whether we be bond
or free;
and have been all made to drink into
one Spirit.”
1 Corinthians 7:19
“Circumcision
is nothing,
and uncircumcision
is nothing,
but the keeping
of the commandments
of God.”
In 1 Corinthians 7:19 he is telling us
To Keep "the commandments of God.”
Revelation 22:14
“Blessed are they that
do his commandments,
that they may have right
to the tree of life,
and may enter in through the gates into the city.”
Bless you
Not quite sure what you are saying? Love the verses, though.
...still. Post tribbers will be pre-tribbed because of their faith.
I don’t see how the rapture can be at the second coming as this author is teaching. If that were so, who would be left alive on earth to repopulate the earth? Christians would’ve raptured and no Christians judged. It must be prewrath
Jesus sets his kingdom on earth after everything is destroyed in the lake of fire, even death
What deceptive smokescreen is taking away from the timing of the Second Coming? The Son of Man won’t be gathering His elect from the wrath to come, before, in the middle, or at the end of the 70th Week of Daniel. Think of the countless hours teachers have vainly tried to prove a pre-tribulation, mid-tribulation, post-tribulation timing of His Coming. These interpretations aren’t in the scriptures; nor are they from the Holy Spirit. So, what is our Lord really saying? The saints getting the victory over the Beast will know their gathering by angels is near when they see the sun, the moon, and the stars lose their light!
He says the sun, moon stop giving their light and the stars fall from heaven *immediately after the tribulation of those days* and then He returns to gather the elect. I'm not sure how you can say post-trib is wrong if you see He comes after the sun, moon and star signs.
Holy Spirit won't be here like in the time of the last 3 1/2 years of the tribulation , i. The tribulation it goes back to The Law, not by grace. Hy Spirit comes down into the prophets and 144,000. Church is saved by grace, tribulation saint are saved by TESTIMONY!! Testimony that God didn't lie about the pretribulation. In the rapture Jesus is not see bc church goes up to him. Jesus is see coming in the cloud coming down with saints dressed in fine linen. In heaven the church will have a seder (wedding of the lamb) while the last 3 1/2 yrs of the tribulation is going on. Why is the church dressed i. Fine linen while the tribulation saints are dressed in white robes holding olive branches. The church gets a different reward. Crown, white rock with a new name and will be priests in the Millennium then the new Jerusalem while tribulation saints go to God's temple? Explain this?
Exactly!
The holy sports will be here Hes omnipresent so He can’t leave also many willl be saved during the tribulation and salvation cannot take place without the Holy Spirit. What will happen is the Holy Spirit’s role will change He will allow Satan to expand his power and reek intense persecution.
I disagree with your answer to the first question about isaiah 26:19-21,vs 19 says your dead shall live together with my dead body they shall arise awake and sing you who dwell in the dust,the earth shall cast out the dead,this is talking about the resurrection,so when vs20 says come my people enter your chambers and shut the door behind you) the chambers they are entering has to be in heaven because they were resurrected,the word chamber means bedroom this is the bridle chamber where they will get married to Christ at the marriage in rev 19:7, not on earth being protected like you said israel was being protected when god was pouring out the plagues in moses time
Jesus said to let both grow to together in Matt 13. That works with the "rapture doctrine" how?
Rev 20:4 says that those didn't who did not receive the mark of the beast will reign with Jesus for a thousand years. How can somebody choose not to take the mark of the beast if they're not offered it? I believe the mark of the beast will be offered to people during the tribulation. Therefore those people had to have lived through the tribulation to refuse the mark. That's why I'm Post-trib. I would really like to believe in pre-tribulation but I agree with Dr Brown that the scripture just doesn't support it.
Revelation 20:4 is referring to those who get saved after the rapture, who become the tribulation saints. The Church will be taken out of the way before that. Keep in mind that the entire tribulation period is God's wrath poured out on this rebellious world and the Church isn't appointed to God's wrath (Read Romans 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10 & 1 Thess. 5:9-11). Jesus Christ already took God's wrath for us on the cross, so we'll be removed.
@@Tazz77 where does it say that those people are saved after the Rapture?
There are lots of examples where God's people were in Tribulation and he did not save them from it, he save them through it. Example the flood, Lion's Den, fiery furnace, passover... just because we will not be the focus of God's Wrath does not mean that we will not be here through it.
Sandina K, God will keep us FROM it...as He did Noah. Noah and his family were safe on the ark, kept from the flood waters, safely above the wrath of God, which raged beneath them. So will it be for those of us who are raptured out - while the tribulation period is raging down here on earth, the Church will be safe in heaven. We are not appointed to God's wrath. Daniel in the fiery furnace and the lion's den aren't examples of Gods' wrath. Daniel wasn't thrown into the fiery furnace and the lion's den because God was angry with him.
The Church is not appointed to God's wrath, which is what the tribulation period will be - God's wrath poured out on rebellious mankind. I am convinced and always will be right up to when it happens, that we'll be raptured out before the tribulation. It's our blessed hope and we're to comfort one another with these words (1 Thess. 4:16-18). Can we comfort one another with something that isn't going to happen? Does God lie? No.
Revelation 7:9-14 speaks of the tribulation saints, those who get saved and are martyred for their faith during the tribulation period. Daniel 7:21, Revelation 13:7, and Revelation 20:4, tells us that the Beast will persecute these saints heavily during his reign. These verses also let me know that there won't be a whole lot of protection during the tribulation period. The only ones who'll definitely be protected will be the 144,000 Jewish males who will preach the gospel during that time (Revelation 7:1-8).
@@Tazz77 Noah still had to endure probably the screaming of the drowning people and even if he couldn't hear them he knew they were. He was still in it.
And the other times in the bible when he saved them through it?
I want to believe in pre-trib but I don't see evidence for it. I used to and it gave me comfort, until I started studying it. 1st Thessalonians 4 16 through 18 points out that we will be raptured when Christ returns. That's not till the end of the tribulation. Revelation 7 does say that those people came out of the tribulation, but it doesn't say that there was people there were taken out before that. Revelation 7:1 doesn't apply to me I'm not Jewish, I'm a gentile.
The Bridegroom would never put the Bride in this predicament...
Come, let’s get married, then I’m going to beat the living daylights out of you, then let’s go have dinner.
Nope.
You are mistaken dr. brown.
See ya in the air....😊
Read about a OLD OLD Jewish wedding. He pays for her.. he then goes back to his fathers house to make them a home. She stays behind not knowing when he will come get her. So about a year later he comes back with some friends....makes a loud noise so she knows he is coming. And her.. always watching always ready. He gets her.. takes her back to his fathers house for a week or so..
That is NOT the word.. yet... JEWISH! 10 virgins.. all sleeping.. wake up.. 5 were always watching 5 were not... I live as if JESUS is coming NOW! Those not watching not ready..I dont know
Max Blade
YES!!!
This is exactly what Chuck Missler talks about in this video th-cam.com/video/Y2AcmLHBJ4M/w-d-xo.html
poolahpot, amen.
Poolahpot you must be on pot the Bride has been beat the living daylights out of since the beginning of the church...Obviously you are as blind as a bat and have not read the history of the church Fox's book of martyrs etc. Those closest to Jesus ALL got the crap beat out them unto dead...John they tried to kill but could not so off to prison. Wake up man!!!!! Nothing has changed...Christian still getting beat up and killed...America is next. You are living a fairytale dream so you get off easy. Count the cost Jesus said....YOUR LIFE....overcome by not loving your life unto the death. Rev 12:11
@@Tazz77 except we are not the bride.
I disagree. John 14 1-4 does refer to the Rapture. There is nothing in that passage that refers to a Second Coming as believers meet the Lord in the Air in order to receive our new bodies and return to Heaven to occupy the Mansions (Place) Jesus said he was preparing for us. Furthermore, dead believers are already with the Lord. Just like Jesus told the dying criminal on a cross next to Him, 'TODAY you will be with me in Paradise.' (Lk 23:43). So, he cannot welcome dead believers to be with Him as they already live with the Lord right now in Spirit unless one believes in soul sleeping, which is not taught in Scripture. What Jesus meant is welcoming all Church Saints after the Resurrection (Dead) and Translation (Living) in the Air and returning back into Heaven in our new immortal bodies.
To be clear, dead believers are already with the Lord in Spirit form. The purpose of the Rapture is so they can receive an immortal body and live in the place promised by the Lord. For living believers, they will go through a translation into immortal bodies when they are caught up from Earth at the same time. Those believers will never experience death.
After the Rapture, all believers, In their new immortal body, will be with the Lord forever. But, they will not occupy the Earth again until after the Great Tribulation in the role assigned to us in the Messianic Kingdom. In Revelation, the Church is mentioned in Chapters 1-3. And, after that, Chapter 19. Bur, in the detailed GT chapters 4-18, the Church is not mentioned once. Never. Those who are persecuted or killed as believers are Tribulation believers who come to Christ during the GT because to the preaching of the 144,000 Jews and Two Witnesses. Non-believers are by far the majority in GT, who will suffer God's wrath as they have the mark of the beast.
John 14 1-4, refers to the Resurrection of dead believers and translation of living believers prior to the Great Tribulation. We get a new body as promised in I Thess 4: 13-18 and I Cor 15: 50-58. Those Scriptures make it clear corruptible bodies cannot enter the Kingdom of God. But, there is nothing in the Bible that states the Rapture triggers the GT, as the Rapture is imminent, without preconditions. It could happen now. The signing of the seven-year treaty with the Anti Christ by Israel triggers the GT.
The Rapture as no pre-conditions. Unlike other pre GT events, like a One World Government eventually broken into 10 Kingdoms that are outlined by Daniel the Prophet and other OT Prophets. Most of the Book of Revelation, but not all, can be found in the Old Testament,, mainly amongst the Prophets. The Book of Revelation simply gives us a Chronology of those events.
Spot on....John 14 is _V E R Y_ clear about the rapture of the church, & *AMEN!*
There is no 7 year but 3 and half Jesus fulfilled half of 70 week only 42 months left
God working through a lie? Can't respect someone who dont call things for what it is.
Teaching lies is works of fools who repeat what they heard and never read for themselves.
Always believes in a Pre-Trib rapture,
It’s what the church taught.
This year I was simply reading all end times scripture and it came alive in such a different way. I’m still between mid tribes to post trib but definitely not pre anymore. Look forward to reading your book
Acording to 2 Thess 2:11 and Isaiah 10:5,6,20 delusion is from God through the antichrist as part of his judgement in wrath against those who rejected the truth so they could be saved. Jesus redeemed men (6) from every kindred, tongue, people and nation, 4 corners of the world = 24. They’re in heaven before chapter 6, which by the way is book 66 chapter 6 or 666. Interesting