Another bit about Honey: LMG dropped them about a month after "Adblock is Piracy," where Linus was crucified for DARING to ask viewers to consider creator revenue/the long term consequences of their actions. He'd have been crazy to make a video a month later asking consumers to care about creator revenue again. I wouldn't even be surprised if other creators saw what happened to Linus with "adblock is piracy" and decided to not make a video about Honey.
It's utterly insane that Steve decided to drag Linus into it when they haven't been sponsored by them in 3 years and they didn't even know Honey was tricking consumers by not giving them the best deals when they dropped them. How would they make a video about something they had no clue was happening? What is Steve's argument here? Funniest part is that the entire community was siding with Steve even though LTT had complete receipts for the Billet Labs situation and Madison's situation but just weren't making a video about it because they let it go as a one time thing. Now that Steve again poked where he really didn't need to, it has forced LTT to counter what are basically insults at this stage directly at Linus's morality and integrity, and it has split the community with many siding with Linus now.
Also, the receipts that Steve brought up were arguable, but also _old._ Even if Linus did some of those revealed things bad (like the wrong phone number), everything was pre-2023. Steve has his reasons to not want to be buddy with Linus again, that should be respected. But dude hasn't justified this new call-out at all. (Also... Consumer Advocacy channel? what?)
Billet labs drama sums up exactly why you need to ask for comment from every party involved. Just because one person says something is true, doesn't make it true. If you're so concerned that by giving someone a heads up it will diminish the impact of your exposé then it proves that you should be asking all parties. It's not about creating the most clicks, it's about being correct.
Yes. The fact that Steve still defends his weird and unique interpretation of journalistic ethics is really strange, considering that in the first video were he used these ethics they already lead to him misreporting the situation. He came up with his own rules instead of using the very well established ones and that immediately caused him to make mistakes.
You're bang on with the "hours per week" discussion. That really stood out to me. If someone is pulling 100 hours per week and they're the person in charge, that's not heroic or admirable, that's bad management. I've been that person, and I've worked with others like that. If Steve feels like he needs to pull those hours, then his team is either underperforming (and by no means am I saying they're bad employees, there may be process issues, communication issues, etc. preventing them from being their best, and that's on the person managing them) or they don't have the manpower to do what they're attempting to do. Either is bad management, plain and simple. I think he thought that he was bragging, but that's actually really bad if it's true. He's got people's livelihoods depending on his decisions as a leader, and doing this is really irresponsible to them because nobody is at their best during a 100-hour week or even close to it.
@@gargonovich Yea felt a bit like a "Steve that is not the flex you think it is situation" I started with a bit more sympathy for Steve in the whole drama cycle, the obituary for Gordon and his end of year video gave me the vibe that he really much rather would like to be a coffezilla style investigator than a mere tech tuber and I was a bit skeptical if he actually somewhere has the skillset and doing both is just too much...(I suggested that he makes a secondary channel to focus on that since it seemed he would be much happier there and maybe more service to the community...) Who knows, maybe he can somehow aquire self-relection techniques and become what he aspires to be, recent years don't point in that direction but some people actually manage to change.
I agree with your take on the GN vs LMG drama, but I would like to point out that the harassment report came from an ex-employee who tweeted about it during the LMG exposé crisis, and not from GN.
@@CraftComputing you now reed to reshot the video due to inaccuracies :-D (sorry that was mean, but in the end that is the ridiculousness of the whole drama)
I enjoyed your LTT/GN discussion. Some parts were spoken right out of my heart, and I appreciated hearing your perspective and insights. I personally lost all respect and trust for Steve, am extremely disappointed, and can’t continue watching GN. Without an honest admission and reflection of his mistakes, I‘m never going to see Steve (and Louis Rossmann too, for his support and partaking in the current deflection exercise „Linus is a horrible narcissist (gotta trust me bro on that) and Steve Burke is a good person“) as sensible, reasonable and trustworthy individuals. Having watched all of GN‘s „hit pieces“, I now question basically everything he has said in these videos. I already felt a bit uneasy since the backpack warranty discussion and Steve’s public announcement of how he is going to change GN‘s treatment of LTT in the future, I found that super weird, considering the conflict of interest and the fact that LTT is not a computer hardware or software company. Now, since it‘s so obvious how Steve is twisting facts for his own gain, how could I ever trust him with any „journalism“ again? He is discrediting himself with his behavior. It‘s just sad. I don‘t think I‘ve ever been more disappointed by people I had a high opinion of. Unsubscribe it is, at least for now. Subbed to your channel instead ;)
I think Linus knew about a tech problem. He or his team figured it out, made sure that his company wouldn't be effected by it. Then told nobody else about this tech problem while also taking money in sponsorship for keeping that tech problem secret. Mind you others also figured it out and also didn't tell. But those weren't in the tech industry. I think mrbeast, mkbhd and a few others should have also been obligated to blow the whistle. They all didn't That is egregious to all other creators that were sponsoring their own downfalls.
@@headswillroll89 That isn't what happened. What is this nonsense? Honey's affiliate hijacking was doing the rounds with creators and that eventually reached LMG, who then asked them if this was true and ended their relation with Honey when they confirmed as much and said they wouldn't change it. That this was happening was a well known issue back then and the reason so many dropped Honey all at the same time. Why are you making it out like LMG was paid by Honey to keep quiet? For f---ks sake, the only reason we know LMG had that conversation is because - unlike everybody else - they didn't keep quiet. LMG's channels use affiliate links constantly, there is no "making sure they wouldn't be affected".
@headswillroll89 there's no proof or reason to believe that there was "hush money in sponsorship" for any of the creators who figured it out and stopped advertising Honey. At the times, reports (public ones, I might add) were only that referral links were being overwritten for creators. This was enough for them to drop the sponsorship, and since they're not an investigative channels they didn't go digging deeper to find that honey was also "stealing" from users (by not actually finding "the best deals"). Heck, for all we know the user-side deficiencies were a new thing, since no one looked into that side of things back in 2023.
@@headswillroll89 The ridiculous misinformation people like yourself have gotten into their heads is proof that GN hasn't been entirely responsible in their reporting
I think what makes the LTT/GN situation more egregious than it already is, is that despite the fact that many of the thing GN has said have been demonstratively false (e.g. the Billet labs thing, the harassment story, the full context of what Linus said about Honey, etc.), GN is refusing to make corrections, or even to discuss updates on the situation (e.g. the harassment story again, unless I've missed it, he's never told his audience about the findings of the investigation). Meanwhile they are accusing LTT of inaccurate reporting and not being fast enough with correcting errors in their stories. Which is just downright hypocritical. It has to be said tho; back in 2023 and the months leading up to it, there were issues with accuracy of LTT videos beyond things that were asterisk-ed on-screen, I myself have commented at the time more then once on it. However, LTT was aware and in WAN shows prior to the GN video they did discuss that they were working on a system where videos would be checked for errors by community members as well. GN's video did make them fast track that, but it was also just way overblown (the GN video even including "examples" that weren't examples of it).
Also, about the Nvidia card, what you described there is something that up to the point about finding that it was a missing bios update, is something similar that Steve also got mad about in his 2023 video about LTT. LTT had a review about a AMD (I believe) CPU and found out that their results were completely different from what other reviewers were getting and they contacted AMD. Steve said they should have published their review and not have looked at other reviewers' results. LTT however ended up confirming with AMD that their review sample simply was broken. Which not only was just a dumb argument on Steve's part in isolation, but given the rest of the video hammering so much on accuracy it was also flying right in the face of his other arguments.
Bold going against GN audience who are savage and currently suffering from cognitive dissonance about the obvious true and the trust they used to have for Steve
Credit where credit is due: a good portion of the GN audience (both in the comments and the subreddit) doesn't seem to pleased with Steve about this either. To the point where he's even losing subscribers.
I'm glad people are finally calling Steve out for his unprofessional behaviour, not that Linus has been much better in that regard in recent years. Steve is absolutely the one perpetuating the beef between the two with his inability or unwillingness to communicate or come to any sort of understanding and treating industry peers as potential enemies in the name of "consumer advocacy" is juvenile at best.
Your view on the GN and LTT situation is something we have not really seen from that point of view and it adds a whole new level to the discussion, thanks for that! I share you're conclusions, my overal view was a bit more "ah ok Steve does important maybe hyperbolic reporting sometimes but the whole ltt situation damage his credibility" Now I'm asking myself if we ever where right to trust him in the first place. I kinda think his new channel if he actually manges to really become a journalist, could become something important. But I think his inability to admit errors and learn form them will probably hinder him there. The LTT approach to call our brands if they duck up and stopp working with them but also being open to work together again and call them out if they resolve the problems is much more constructive than what steve is doing. Also Steve is kinda a bit to long winded, in the rent thing there had been some more important points how they would configure a rented system worse than the same named one if you buy it or that some marketing suggested you would get ownership at the end but that went under the "oh bad TOS and price part" (also having a part in the TOS that your data if you leave it on the hard-drive belongs to them is almost certainly not to sell that but just so you don't have to deal with "oh I forgot some data on the system I gave back 6 Months ago, you must restore that!" or whatever similar situation and lawsuits that could result from a customer accidentally giving sensitive data into your inventory...)
One point about the NZXT burning adapter, if I remember correctly, according to steve, they've contacted NZXT directly a while before uploading the first video so it's not completely "they made the videos on the weekend so NZXT wouldn't have the time to respond" (I'm paraphrasing). Besides that, I agree with everything you've said.
Very level headed response on everything. I've watched a few of your videos from time to time and didn't even know you did a podcast until now. It was good to listen to.
You talking about not being in any rush to do the 5090 review was pretty funny. When your content isn't wholly about "DAY ONE ACCURATE THUROUGH TESTING" of the latest hardware I imagine it leads to a much better work life balance. lol, love the content man.
One of the many things that annoy me about Steve’s hit pieces are the finality of them. Is no one worthy of redemption in Steve’s eyes? Some of the things he has shown in those videos are pretty bad but I don’t think anything was beyond the point of return. If Steve keeps going with these scorched earth videos and vowing to never work with that company again he’s going to record himself out of a job because all companies will make mistakes
I appreciate the comment on GN thinking they should audit other channels review process (my paraphrasing). I find that so jarring. Let the viewers decide who they want to watch and the data they want to ingest in the format they choose. Why should GN's way be the only way? People get stuff wrong and he treats it as an affront, instead of natural human mistakes.
One of the four times I've ever heard Spokane, WA mentioned on the internet - That R.A.C. on Sprague would be a wild drone shot, that's for sure 😂 These were some well-worded arguments and generally lines up with how this whole situation has left me feeling. Bad taste in my mouth for Gamers Nexus even after some really impressive pushes for consumer advocacy. You got my sub!
My concern with Steve talking about putting 100 hours/wk is if that's driving the other employees to work as much. Do they get paid overtime then? I suspect that GN is struggling financially and needs to do these kind of videos to stay alive. Their benchmarking might be close to perfection, but that doesn't bear well with a financially sustainable company. Which, at the end of the day, GN is a for profit company.
There are takes about this drama that "you said what my brain is trying say" and there's your take that give an insight about how destructive GN's Steve does his content, you hit both for me. 1:07:40 During the Aug. 2023 fiasco, I learned that you CANNOT say anything against GN without making a negative take on LMG/Linus, you'll be crucified as well and the same is still true today. 1:01:02 TIL other tech channels are forced to walk on eggshells with sponsors because GN placed another company on the chopping block and the potential backlash.
Great take on the LTT v GN drama. It never even came to mind, nor have i read it anywhere about your point that it's hurting the opinions of other creators. If Steve Kardashian continues his way, it won't be long that he'll get burned for it. He also never acknowledges the point's linus raise cause we know if he did, it would expose he's wrongdoing. Apparently, he's too good to be wrong.
Anyways love how to addressed this. My only fear is that Steve IIRC didn’t lean that much on the harrassment angle it was his audience that did. This is the result of bad faith reporting but it’s the only ammunition that Steve could have against you. Otherwise I love seeing Steve peers weigh in. Last time you could tell no one dared to be candid about the situation. Times change and you gained a new sub. The biggest discussion about ethics in the industry and so many people are missing out. I applaud you for speaking out
Just found your content because of this episode and talking about the GN & LTT situation. I think you discussed it very well. NZXT has great products, I don't agree with how they did their rentals, but that doesn't mean they are suddenly the devil's company. That aside, I look forward to your reviews of the 50 series, and plan to stick around for those! I'm planning on upgrading to either a 5070 or 5070ti from my 3080ti. It's still a good card, but I want to run more games at 4k, and faster encoding for video editing would be nice. Look forward to your coverage!
Wow... not seen any of your videos before. But, based solely on you talking about LMG / Steve / Rossman, I feel the need now to check out your other stuff. Nice that there are still some adults around.
Can't believe stirred the pot over honey just for him to come out looking worse and ltt looking better now that we have more context to the billet labs stuff
The qualifying arguments part has been a thing on reddit for a LONG time because you'll have fanbois from one half of the community attacking the other half. So you have to rush to the middle so you don't get downvoted to oblivion by one camp/tribe. Not really unique to GN/LTT drama but helps further explain it I think. Also, I've seen your videos around, like that truenas one from 3 months ago. I don't remember why I never clicked subscribed, but I like your style. I'm going to watch more of your videos from now on. Though, I'm sorry if you see a spike of activity. Your video got linked on the LTT subreddit. And now I feel like I'm doing the qualifying argument thing here... Anyway, thanks for the content.
The Billet labs video where Linus was testing the waterblock. Clearly if the waterblock had been tested with the right GPU (although they were told it would work with the card they tested it with in the video as well) wouldn't have ever cooled the GPU with any reasonable performance, and it's not in any way acceptable for Linus to give a company's product a pass, when it was clear that nothing was going to change the fact that it was not a good product. Steve tried calling Linus out for not being through, but Steve can't claim that he hasn't handwaved doing certain tests that would have been "too time consuming". How about the fact that every time Steve attacked Linus was either right after or during when Linus had some kind of extremely big win. The first time was with the release of the backpack, the second during the first LTX post pandemic, and the 3rd was the day after Linus was on The Tonight show.
I can't say I find GN's content very appealing and his holier-than-thou attitude combined with how he games Reddit just isn't for me. Seems like a lot of people have a lot of stories to tell about him and his behaviour as well, it all seems to fit.
Your thoughts on the GN topic is basically along the same lines as what I have been thinking when I read JayztwoCents recent community post on him trying some Asus stuff again recently after dropping them from the channel a while back, asking folks not to get mad at him lol
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. GN slams a company and blacklists them, and the rest of us have to deal with the repercussions. I'm not even talking about sponsorships, but just reviewing a product or including the company in a video. It's ridiculous.
Wait, so you knew you'd be losing affiliate sales when Honey approached you to sponsor, yet you didn't make a video on it alerting all other xreators? Steeeeeeve!
I don't always watch your podcast, only when I have time. While I don't agree with everything said, and there are many narratives in the dramas, it's always better to share different views and different narrative to make our own opinions. But then again, with a grain of salt. To me, all parties failed to handle this correctly and lead to this "smellystorm". I like that your view is different that the one I had originally and gave me more perspective and another view on the subject. Being a fanatic is always detrimental to any causes (I'm talking about, especially viewers advocating for their favorite TH-camrs while they just blindly believe a side because “evidence” was given). There are opinions of different parties who had different takes on the subject which I agreed even though they were contradictory from one another. Anyway good content!
1:37:29 hard disagree on that, there's a floor for used pricing and those cards have hit it. What the 5070 release will impact strongly is 4080 used market I think, as people can't just sell it at near new pricing used because "what's the alternative?"
Every once in-a -while I hop on one of these...and then remember that although I like your content, I do not agree on your opinions on most everything else.
1:09:55 - that earns you a like and a comment. (for the algo) The cult of Steve from Gamers Nexus, with the rabid followers and the "you must follow my edicts or be punished for eternity" attitude is extremely hostile to the entire industry, why would anyone want to start doing tech reviews while they're acting like this. Also you should only be working 100 hour weeks during the first 2 years of a new business max. It's been 13 years of Journalism/Interview/HW Review they should be making enough money to have employees to do work for him, it's not a flex unless your a making enough to have nice things. Gamers Nexus Ethics Video - th-cam.com/video/JNNQVo2dGuE/w-d-xo.html
I couldve sworn the accusations of sexual harassment came after the GN video. If i remember correctly that was entirely Madison being Madison; GN didnt get into it.
@@CraftComputing I'm sorry if I came off as a GN defender; I hadnt watched the full segment yet when I left that comment. You were on point with everything you said. Always found your videos to be fun and educational - also found more than a few brews that I've enjoyed thanks to you.
For the nzxt rental thing, I remember seeing a news segment around ps2/xbox days where they were talking to people outside of I think, coincidentally, Rent-A-Center and when they talked to a guy that just got a ps2 that would end up being $800 in payments he said something like "I'll never have $300 that I can drop in one shot on a PlayStation, but I always have twenty bucks in my pocket."
Just wondering, why is the audio podcast version in my podcast app almost always late? Would love to have it there at the same time the TH-cam version is released.
The YT stream is live..once it goes to VOD, it's pulled down, encoded, and uploaded to Spotify, then distributed to other platforms. Takes time, even when fully scripted.
As someone who publishes a podcast that's pretty similar to this, getting things up on Spotify takes a few hours of processing essentially at best. This is a TH-cam live stream so it's immediately here, even if they recorded the audio locally so they had it on hand once they upload it to the audio podcast platforms it takes a bit to push out to Apple podcasts Spotify etc.
@@CraftComputingthanks for the response! It just that I see episode 365 was just released in my player together with this one. Just wondering what that is about.
So, on the Honey discussion, LMG actually did make a video on Honey. It was the video that GN quoted. What Linus was saying was that, when they originally drop Honey as a sponsor, they decided not to make a video. The absurd logic of Steve's "out of context quote" was A) that Linus made a video on it before Steve (well, at least he addressed it in a video - WAN Show) and B) Steve didn't make a video years ago. When you add context to Linus's quote in Steve's video, that entire schtick makes absolutely no scenes at all. I unsubbed from Gamers Nexus and gave it to you. Great coverage!
When I think about that NZXT rental program, it reminds me of a hot water tank rental. You’re paying for the support in the chance that something goes wrong and/or you get a replacement. Not to say that their pricing is good and will eventually eclipse the price of the PC, but that’s something nobody thinks of. And NZXT is an amazing company. I bought an H1, the cooler died, wrote support and they sent me an H1 V2 to replace it free of charge.
If I am not misremembering, I believe Steve also criticize LTT for the 7950x3D review for talking to AMD after they thought they received a malfunctioning cpu. I could be mistaken, but I would swear that happened or I could be misattributing to something else.
You are correct. They alerted AMD to their unexpected results rather than publishing them, and Steve criticized them for... not publishing inaccurate results?
Wholeheartedly agree on the GN thing. Tbh i always found his writing a bit pretentious, maybe it was only me i thought at the time, even prior to these 'blockbusters'. Seems he has let the fame go to his head. I hope he can take a break, not do 100 hrs a week, sit down, maybe go to a therapist. Being this angry and this overworked is not okay. Maybe glazing you a bit but your videos are a lot more entertaining to me, even when info dense. Also, any chance you are still considering reviving that quanta server? I enjoyed the 2 parter and wanna see where this rabbithole goes. I can imagine a lot of people are of the same opinion.
Steve is being extremely childish and petty, trying to make small mistakes or badly worded messages as something egregious. You would think Linus slept with his GF and run over his dog on the way home.
I will die on the hill that on whole there was nothing wrong with Established Titles. Anyone who didn't know exactly what they were "buying" should frankly have their spending priviliges restricted by family.
I'll take a minute and give Steve the benefit of the doubt for being 15 minutes late. There is the possibility that his being upset was aimed at himself over being late. There are situations where things happen and we all end up being late to some important thing now and again. Personally I beat myself up pretty hard when I make a mistake. Taking your perspective of what happened at face value though It makes him look like an a**hole. Maybe GN is a bigger deal than craft computing. First off it would be extremely rude of the company to stop your meeting midway through to have the meeting with the guy who was 15 minutes late. Second GN may be a bigger deal than craft computing, but I suspect that the company who you and he both had meetings scheduled with that day is a bigger deal than GN, and they probably don't have the time to sit around and wait for who knows how long till he shows up. That isn't their problem whatsoever They also probably have 100+ employees, and large companies can't just drop everything and waiting for one guy to show up to the meeting he's running late for. It sounds like the company probably had meetings scheduled all day. They can't just risk pushing all their other meetings and possibly losing another day of productivity for Steve. I'd guess that they waited probably about 5 minutes, saw you there, knowing you were the next on the schedule, and said "Your next, come on."
I wouldn't read too much into that anecdote. It was a one time thing that he likely doesn't remember, and I'm sure I've done the same thing when I'm late to a meeting at CES.
@CraftComputing I wasn't there and don't have all the information so there's no way to be sure, but paired with everything else it just doesn't sound so implausible. I kind of feel like Steve and Linus were destined to clash eventually because they both have spotlight seeking personalities. Linus doesn't hide it though, which probably is why he rubs a fair amount of ppl the wrong way, but I get the impression that he doesn't feel like there's not room for another personality that's similar to his within this community.
I don't have the attention span for a GN video, and it seems like I'm really only missing the subjective opinion of a petty man when the topic is anything beyond technical details.
I like the way you do your reviews Jeff, so don't go changing - why would you want all reveiws to be exactly the same anyway? Real world usage of hardware IS a valid review, and this is why I watch your channel. I had to stop watching GN; all of the sarcasm and opinion presented as fact became too much and I'd agree it's far from "investigative journalism". Keep up the good work.
LTT/GN beef... i want them both do better and i really hope they do better... Linus during the initial drama could have gone to forums and just told something like this... People were pushed too far with LTX, new CEO is coming in soon and we will do better in production and internal management... instead we got messy message that frustrated many people and gave more fuel for GN... Steve for sure should get his feet on the ground and not be high on some brain entrusted serotonin/adrenaline rush while making long "exposes" about stuff and get real stuff done... desire to make good is there and let's hope it will get to the goal more often Honey case Some of the Linus's statements did rub me the wrong way... "not our story to break" - sorry, even you do not call yourselves as journalists, you almost never make real own moves "everybody knew about it, people sent this info to everybody" - sure, nice that you are telling it was a huge thing.. but yet... "we could not make the video about it" - i can agree with that... but same time LTT is running 2 news aggregation shows, has social media and such... there were many other places they could have spread that info further than some forum post... in my eye they for sure were not the villain in the overall picture... but I really wish that they would have had stepped up and been the hero back in the day... GN's honey video LTT clip... that was just cheap and dishonest stab .. and i think even Steve and his editors know that... PS: ad-block is piracy - if you think other ways then i think you are ether ignorant or have bad morals..
If an influencers decides to drop a sponsor they should either keep quiet or publish the statement in the same format as the sponsorship. Posting on a forum blog etc is the equivalent of a front page headline and bottom of the page 6 correction - very few people read it
That's your opinion on how a media outlet should operate. I've dropped sponsors before for a variety of reasons, and none of those needed a public proclamation. Sometimes it was not agreeing to terms. Sometimes it was a sponsor being difficult to work with. I'm also choosy of my sponsors and only promote products and services I would actually stand behind, so 'dropping' a sponsor doesn't exactly mean 'no longer recommend'. If I went out and started burning bridges with every failed deal, there'd be no one left to work with.
@@CraftComputing I am *NOT* saying that dropping a sponsor need a message I said "keep quiet" which it appears you are saying you did - all I am saying is *IF* someone chooses to speak out then they should use the same medium as the original message, so it reaches the same audience as the original message.
@@abzzeus If the sponsor is still a good deal/product for the *consumer*, then no, channels shouldn't have to publish that they've dropped them. That's the crux of the entire debate here, it appears that with the information they had at the time LMG had no way of knowing Honey was messing with consumers as well.
@ Again, that's *NOT* what I'm saying *IF* a channel chooses to put out a notice, then it should be in the same format as the original message - so the same audience gets a chance to see it How many people just watch the youtube & not visit the forums of the channels? Probably a lot
Deadnaming Emily? Not cool. Rest of your points, spot on! Finally unsubbed from GN last night. Time to move on. *edit* I did it myself in the post, so I changed it to Emily.
Wow, deadnaming was absolutely a mistake on my part. I was referring to emails GN published this week on the CPU delid issue, where Emily was a presenter in a video. They were using their old name at that time, and the emails were as well. Thanks for calling this out, as it absolutely was not my intention. Sorry to Emily as well.
Isn't telling Steve what he should and shouldn't do the same thing you're criticizing him about? Also, LMG is a $100m company. It's not a small man team in Appalachia and it's not a guy in his basement drinking beers surrounded by Chinese mobos. Also, the sexual harassment costume was independent of Steve and lawyers are NEVER brought in to route out "bad actors" when those accused are owners or c suite. That's just asinine to assume so. If the behavior is egregious enough, yeah they'll file a report but if they can spin the facts well enough, they will always protect the corporate interests of those that are signing their checks. Read the long thread from Madison herself that reads like a checklist of virtually every bad decision/management style that every small company that grows big faces. It's a problem kind of endemic of TH-cam too where these big influencers end up creating teams with their besties in upper management, only to find out their besties are abusing that power (because they have no experience, no training, and no accountability). To just brush off sexual harassment and groping claims as "Steve has a grudge" is just pathetic in an industry that's dominated by gamer gate misogynists and who's primary subreddit is an allusion to klan and n@zi ideology. Linus is a perma victim but also somehow the most powerful and lucrative tech channel (so much that he's able to build a competitive platform). He's manipulative and narcissistic and virtually anyone who's lived with a person like that smells it a mile away from anything that dude says that isn't scripted. He still puts out entertaining content but he's straight up the Ellen DeGeneres of this side of TH-cam. As for Steve, he's not a trained journalist but you're holding him to that standard instead of holding him to the standard, a now stringent standard than you good Linus for some reason. Steve isn't perfect at all, but he doesn't punch down either. He does deep dives into what social media gets riled up over and he calls out the companies as he see fits (the late stage capitalism world is burning, 99/100 tossed stones are going to find their mark). But he also calls out the public for making mountains out of molehills (see the recent AMD chip/mobi rumor). IDK, it seems like most of your complaints are rooted in style over substance with a healthy dose of "the people he calls out say he's lying" as your primary evidence. The most glaring failure of GN was the billet Labs story (again he's not a trained journalist) but even that story Linus misrepresented entirely. He paid billet Labs only AFTER Steve published. Iirc he used weasel words like "we already paid billet their invoice" but left out the payment was made AFTER the GN video was published. That's just not good behavior to simp for. The only thing links is a victim of, is his own success. Why he hasn't put himself through any PR training is beyond me.
this guys channel was shoutouted in one of LMGs videos so thats maybe why he's on simping mode i dunno, I was subscribed to this channel before but hearing this take made me unsubscribe
Interesting. When GN's reporting "harms" smaller channels, it's an issue. Ok, I think GN's reporting is overall a net positive, but I can get behind your point. ( a few fanboys shouting at u in the commnets isn't th same as harming) But then you went off on this weird defensive campaign for AI, when people told you it harmed artists in a very REAL very tangible way. The absolute hypocrisy.
He didn't title it for it, did he? Haven't watched quite yet to that part but judging by the comments he has said smth, which is best. Both parties in the drama deserve some criticism, ESPECIALLY GN.
@@PaperReaper he is making himself a part of the drama without having any involvement with either part, it does not get any more stupid than that. And you have to live under a rock if you don't think this will be picked up by the community.
I think Linus knew about a tech problem. He or his team figured it out, made sure that his company wouldn't be effected by it. Then told nobody else about this tech problem while also taking money in sponsorship for keeping that tech problem secret. Mind you others also figured it out and also didn't tell. But those weren't in the tech industry. I think mrbeast, mkbhd and a few others should have also been obligated to blow the whistle. They all didn't That is egregious to all other creators that were sponsoring their own downfalls.
Linus and/or his team didn’t figure out the issue themselves, someone else discovered it and brought it to their attention. In fact, quite a few tech-savvy and tech-literate TH-camrs all found out about the issue in the same way. Yet, not a single TH-camr, whether in tech or otherwise, who ran Honey ads ever made a video about it.
Please don't touch your keyboard until you get better at critical thinking. You're demonstrably wrong on the telling nobody else about it considering they publicly posted about it, you're demonstrably wrong on taking in money because they dropped the sponsor. It was becoming common knowledge within the creator space that Honey was messing with creators at the time. What was not common knowledge, and only blew up recently, was that they were also ripping off consumers.
You're missing the part where nzxt was modifying the rental pc parts on the fly as well as the prices. It wasnt just NZXT is doing shitty rentals. How can we trust your judgement of Steve when your view is clearly missing information?? I have been watching LTT for years and I never knew why they dropped honey. I would have uninstalled that shit a long time ago if he made a vid rather than posting on the forum. The NZXT riser had a faulty design where the screw can easily short and cause a fire. There needs to be 0 way a screw can reach the 12v rail. Im sorry but your opinions are very flawed.
Every point he covered is missing tons of context, and every comment I've read so far is also missing tons of context. Its not hard to go back and watch the HW News and dedicated videos to get the whole picture, but i guess its easier to just pretend to know what you're talking about instead...
I actually did cover the NZXT rental situation in another episode of Talking Heads. When switching from 'Buy' to 'Rent' the specs do change, however they are visible to the user the entire time. LMG is under no obligation to make a video decrying Honey. They are also the ONLY outlet that made any statement at all. And as I stated, the situation has changed drastically since 2023, as Honey is now known to have been playing both sides. LMG is their own company, and can decide if they want to make a statement about a sponsor they had 2+ years ago or not. Yes, I stated that NZXT had a faulty riser. I also said that GN posted multiple videos over a weekend criticizing NZXT's lack of response, knowing full well they had absolutely no time. Before responding, NZXT also likely needed to verify the claims internally and come up with a plan of action, not just send out a recall notice. These things take longer than a weekend. Anything else you'd like to complain about?
Do you watch 100% of content posted on LTT's youtube from start to finish? then what's to say even if they did do a video on it that you would of even seen it?
So Craft Computing's position based on this stream is that what GN is doing is wrong because holding companies accountable for mistakes an bad practices is unethical and childish. Also based on 01:01:05 and forward leads to a conclusion that this is also personal for Craft Computing, because GN "consumer advocacy" content affects his ability to get sponsorships from these companies.
No, As an example, consider Apple: let’s say their Mac Mini design is anti-consumer because they make it impossible to use a standard consumer SSD in the second M.2 slot on the board. According to the interpretation of GN's approach, that one issue in one division of the company means you can never buy, use, or work with any Apple product, regardless of how good their other products are. That’s essentially how Craft Computing is arguing GN puts these criticisms across, that the entire company is tainted by a single issue. And by extension, anyone who reviews or uses Apple products (or anything from a company with questionable practices) is now bad.
A lot of your info regarding the Billet labs (LTT vs GN) situation is definitely incorrect. I suggest you do actual research before you are going to spread misinformation.
I was paraphrasing, but please, which aspect was incorrect? The expose from GN was published after LMG was made aware of the situation, and they were already well on their way to making the situation right with both the buyer from the LTX Auction, as well as returning the prototype to Billet.
LMG has pretty much posted all the receipts on that, and it was so bad Steve ate his own words and in his response to LMG he backtracked and only said "Linus once said hurty words to me in private, so instead of talking to him I decided to build a fake case".
Well I'm not Steve's fan boy but don't blame Steve for your personal problems with their fans. Do you know what Linus fanboys can do? Is Linus responsible for that? What has Steve done to you that you don't like him? Chill man, nobody is talking or blaming YOU. Who are you to say that his takes are bad for consumers without any evidence. Take care man, stay out of it. Not your fight.
In your example, Linus is reviewing a product as 'bad', which I usually means 'we don't recommend spending your money on this'. A GN Expose into the dirty world of NZXT's Rental PC Program where he strikes a match and watches the company burn while also telling his viewers to never trust NZXT again... that tends to, as I said, 'light a fire under his viewer's asses' and causes them to echo his opinion whenever an NZXT product is shown in another video, even if completely unrelated to the subject of his video. See the difference?
Another bit about Honey: LMG dropped them about a month after "Adblock is Piracy," where Linus was crucified for DARING to ask viewers to consider creator revenue/the long term consequences of their actions.
He'd have been crazy to make a video a month later asking consumers to care about creator revenue again. I wouldn't even be surprised if other creators saw what happened to Linus with "adblock is piracy" and decided to not make a video about Honey.
It's utterly insane that Steve decided to drag Linus into it when they haven't been sponsored by them in 3 years and they didn't even know Honey was tricking consumers by not giving them the best deals when they dropped them. How would they make a video about something they had no clue was happening? What is Steve's argument here? Funniest part is that the entire community was siding with Steve even though LTT had complete receipts for the Billet Labs situation and Madison's situation but just weren't making a video about it because they let it go as a one time thing. Now that Steve again poked where he really didn't need to, it has forced LTT to counter what are basically insults at this stage directly at Linus's morality and integrity, and it has split the community with many siding with Linus now.
Also, the receipts that Steve brought up were arguable, but also _old._
Even if Linus did some of those revealed things bad (like the wrong phone number), everything was pre-2023.
Steve has his reasons to not want to be buddy with Linus again, that should be respected. But dude hasn't justified this new call-out at all.
(Also... Consumer Advocacy channel? what?)
Billet labs drama sums up exactly why you need to ask for comment from every party involved. Just because one person says something is true, doesn't make it true. If you're so concerned that by giving someone a heads up it will diminish the impact of your exposé then it proves that you should be asking all parties. It's not about creating the most clicks, it's about being correct.
Yes. The fact that Steve still defends his weird and unique interpretation of journalistic ethics is really strange, considering that in the first video were he used these ethics they already lead to him misreporting the situation.
He came up with his own rules instead of using the very well established ones and that immediately caused him to make mistakes.
@@Brot1984 He just remade those "rules" after the recent drama to say "i do what i think is right and i'm always right", basically a "trust me bro"
You're bang on with the "hours per week" discussion. That really stood out to me. If someone is pulling 100 hours per week and they're the person in charge, that's not heroic or admirable, that's bad management. I've been that person, and I've worked with others like that. If Steve feels like he needs to pull those hours, then his team is either underperforming (and by no means am I saying they're bad employees, there may be process issues, communication issues, etc. preventing them from being their best, and that's on the person managing them) or they don't have the manpower to do what they're attempting to do. Either is bad management, plain and simple. I think he thought that he was bragging, but that's actually really bad if it's true. He's got people's livelihoods depending on his decisions as a leader, and doing this is really irresponsible to them because nobody is at their best during a 100-hour week or even close to it.
@@gargonovich Yea felt a bit like a "Steve that is not the flex you think it is situation"
I started with a bit more sympathy for Steve in the whole drama cycle, the obituary for Gordon and his end of year video gave me the vibe that he really much rather would like to be a coffezilla style investigator than a mere tech tuber and I was a bit skeptical if he actually somewhere has the skillset and doing both is just too much...(I suggested that he makes a secondary channel to focus on that since it seemed he would be much happier there and maybe more service to the community...)
Who knows, maybe he can somehow aquire self-relection techniques and become what he aspires to be, recent years don't point in that direction but some people actually manage to change.
I agree with your take on the GN vs LMG drama, but I would like to point out that the harassment report came from an ex-employee who tweeted about it during the LMG exposé crisis, and not from GN.
Great point. They came out within a couple days of each other, and two years on, I combined them into a single issue. Thanks for the correction.
Yea had that timeline in my head not sure if Steve might talked about it in a follow up but she kinda hopped onto the bandwagon there.
Wasn't it included in the video Steve deleted?
@@nrees87 oh Yea I think so, I saw that when he uploaded it and I think he deleted it before I was finished... 🤔
@@CraftComputing you now reed to reshot the video due to inaccuracies :-D (sorry that was mean, but in the end that is the ridiculousness of the whole drama)
I enjoyed your LTT/GN discussion. Some parts were spoken right out of my heart, and I appreciated hearing your perspective and insights.
I personally lost all respect and trust for Steve, am extremely disappointed, and can’t continue watching GN.
Without an honest admission and reflection of his mistakes, I‘m never going to see Steve (and Louis Rossmann too, for his support and partaking in the current deflection exercise „Linus is a horrible narcissist (gotta trust me bro on that) and Steve Burke is a good person“) as sensible, reasonable and trustworthy individuals.
Having watched all of GN‘s „hit pieces“, I now question basically everything he has said in these videos.
I already felt a bit uneasy since the backpack warranty discussion and Steve’s public announcement of how he is going to change GN‘s treatment of LTT in the future, I found that super weird, considering the conflict of interest and the fact that LTT is not a computer hardware or software company.
Now, since it‘s so obvious how Steve is twisting facts for his own gain, how could I ever trust him with any „journalism“ again?
He is discrediting himself with his behavior.
It‘s just sad. I don‘t think I‘ve ever been more disappointed by people I had a high opinion of.
Unsubscribe it is, at least for now.
Subbed to your channel instead ;)
I think Linus knew about a tech problem. He or his team figured it out, made sure that his company wouldn't be effected by it. Then told nobody else about this tech problem while also taking money in sponsorship for keeping that tech problem secret.
Mind you others also figured it out and also didn't tell. But those weren't in the tech industry. I think mrbeast, mkbhd and a few others should have also been obligated to blow the whistle. They all didn't
That is egregious to all other creators that were sponsoring their own downfalls.
@@headswillroll89 That isn't what happened. What is this nonsense? Honey's affiliate hijacking was doing the rounds with creators and that eventually reached LMG, who then asked them if this was true and ended their relation with Honey when they confirmed as much and said they wouldn't change it. That this was happening was a well known issue back then and the reason so many dropped Honey all at the same time.
Why are you making it out like LMG was paid by Honey to keep quiet? For f---ks sake, the only reason we know LMG had that conversation is because - unlike everybody else - they didn't keep quiet. LMG's channels use affiliate links constantly, there is no "making sure they wouldn't be affected".
@headswillroll89 there's no proof or reason to believe that there was "hush money in sponsorship" for any of the creators who figured it out and stopped advertising Honey. At the times, reports (public ones, I might add) were only that referral links were being overwritten for creators. This was enough for them to drop the sponsorship, and since they're not an investigative channels they didn't go digging deeper to find that honey was also "stealing" from users (by not actually finding "the best deals"). Heck, for all we know the user-side deficiencies were a new thing, since no one looked into that side of things back in 2023.
@@headswillroll89 The ridiculous misinformation people like yourself have gotten into their heads is proof that GN hasn't been entirely responsible in their reporting
@@headswillroll89 Making a post on a prominent forum is not "telling nobody else."
I think what makes the LTT/GN situation more egregious than it already is, is that despite the fact that many of the thing GN has said have been demonstratively false (e.g. the Billet labs thing, the harassment story, the full context of what Linus said about Honey, etc.), GN is refusing to make corrections, or even to discuss updates on the situation (e.g. the harassment story again, unless I've missed it, he's never told his audience about the findings of the investigation). Meanwhile they are accusing LTT of inaccurate reporting and not being fast enough with correcting errors in their stories. Which is just downright hypocritical.
It has to be said tho; back in 2023 and the months leading up to it, there were issues with accuracy of LTT videos beyond things that were asterisk-ed on-screen, I myself have commented at the time more then once on it. However, LTT was aware and in WAN shows prior to the GN video they did discuss that they were working on a system where videos would be checked for errors by community members as well. GN's video did make them fast track that, but it was also just way overblown (the GN video even including "examples" that weren't examples of it).
Also, about the Nvidia card, what you described there is something that up to the point about finding that it was a missing bios update, is something similar that Steve also got mad about in his 2023 video about LTT. LTT had a review about a AMD (I believe) CPU and found out that their results were completely different from what other reviewers were getting and they contacted AMD. Steve said they should have published their review and not have looked at other reviewers' results. LTT however ended up confirming with AMD that their review sample simply was broken.
Which not only was just a dumb argument on Steve's part in isolation, but given the rest of the video hammering so much on accuracy it was also flying right in the face of his other arguments.
The Beef has one good Thing haha. Found your Chanel via a Reddit Post. Its great. Youve got a new follower.
Greetings from germany
Bold going against GN audience who are savage and currently suffering from cognitive dissonance about the obvious true and the trust they used to have for Steve
Credit where credit is due: a good portion of the GN audience (both in the comments and the subreddit) doesn't seem to pleased with Steve about this either. To the point where he's even losing subscribers.
@@yannick7049 Yeah, the linus inclusion in his honey video felt really... weird, out of place. Idk just something felt off about it.
I'm glad people are finally calling Steve out for his unprofessional behaviour, not that Linus has been much better in that regard in recent years. Steve is absolutely the one perpetuating the beef between the two with his inability or unwillingness to communicate or come to any sort of understanding and treating industry peers as potential enemies in the name of "consumer advocacy" is juvenile at best.
Linus, at the very least, owns who he is and his mistakes. He's very open about his flaws.
Steve on the other hand seems to think he's above it all.
Your view on the GN and LTT situation is something we have not really seen from that point of view and it adds a whole new level to the discussion, thanks for that!
I share you're conclusions, my overal view was a bit more "ah ok Steve does important maybe hyperbolic reporting sometimes but the whole ltt situation damage his credibility"
Now I'm asking myself if we ever where right to trust him in the first place.
I kinda think his new channel if he actually manges to really become a journalist, could become something important.
But I think his inability to admit errors and learn form them will probably hinder him there.
The LTT approach to call our brands if they duck up and stopp working with them but also being open to work together again and call them out if they resolve the problems is much more constructive than what steve is doing.
Also Steve is kinda a bit to long winded, in the rent thing there had been some more important points how they would configure a rented system worse than the same named one if you buy it or that some marketing suggested you would get ownership at the end but that went under the "oh bad TOS and price part" (also having a part in the TOS that your data if you leave it on the hard-drive belongs to them is almost certainly not to sell that but just so you don't have to deal with "oh I forgot some data on the system I gave back 6 Months ago, you must restore that!" or whatever similar situation and lawsuits that could result from a customer accidentally giving sensitive data into your inventory...)
A tech podcast on a day that I don't already have a tech podcast to listen to fantastic
I've been on Wednesdays for 7 years! Episode 366!!! ;-)
One point about the NZXT burning adapter, if I remember correctly, according to steve, they've contacted NZXT directly a while before uploading the first video so it's not completely "they made the videos on the weekend so NZXT wouldn't have the time to respond" (I'm paraphrasing).
Besides that, I agree with everything you've said.
I'm an Aussie, I would love to hear you shittalk our politics for maybe 5 minutes, just as a random change of pace, lol. It's definitely worthy of it.
Very level headed response on everything. I've watched a few of your videos from time to time and didn't even know you did a podcast until now. It was good to listen to.
You talking about not being in any rush to do the 5090 review was pretty funny. When your content isn't wholly about "DAY ONE ACCURATE THUROUGH TESTING" of the latest hardware I imagine it leads to a much better work life balance. lol, love the content man.
Solid chat, first time listener to this Podcast format and loved it.
Thanks for speaking out
One of the many things that annoy me about Steve’s hit pieces are the finality of them. Is no one worthy of redemption in Steve’s eyes? Some of the things he has shown in those videos are pretty bad but I don’t think anything was beyond the point of return. If Steve keeps going with these scorched earth videos and vowing to never work with that company again he’s going to record himself out of a job because all companies will make mistakes
In your video, one voice is too soft, one voice is too loud. My speakers can't handle it. I will wait for 7 years to make a hit piece about it.
Holy poo, your Costco analogy was magic. Well done.
Been a sub since you delivered that new PC back then.
Didn't even know you had a podcast lol.
Tuning in more often
I really want to thank you for making that server for my Friend Greenprotag
I appreciate the comment on GN thinking they should audit other channels review process (my paraphrasing). I find that so jarring. Let the viewers decide who they want to watch and the data they want to ingest in the format they choose. Why should GN's way be the only way? People get stuff wrong and he treats it as an affront, instead of natural human mistakes.
One of the four times I've ever heard Spokane, WA mentioned on the internet - That R.A.C. on Sprague would be a wild drone shot, that's for sure 😂 These were some well-worded arguments and generally lines up with how this whole situation has left me feeling. Bad taste in my mouth for Gamers Nexus even after some really impressive pushes for consumer advocacy. You got my sub!
My concern with Steve talking about putting 100 hours/wk is if that's driving the other employees to work as much. Do they get paid overtime then?
I suspect that GN is struggling financially and needs to do these kind of videos to stay alive. Their benchmarking might be close to perfection, but that doesn't bear well with a financially sustainable company. Which, at the end of the day, GN is a for profit company.
1:37:22: "Screw you, 85 bucks".
Subscribed.
There are takes about this drama that "you said what my brain is trying say" and there's your take that give an insight about how destructive GN's Steve does his content, you hit both for me.
1:07:40 During the Aug. 2023 fiasco, I learned that you CANNOT say anything against GN without making a negative take on LMG/Linus, you'll be crucified as well and the same is still true today.
1:01:02 TIL other tech channels are forced to walk on eggshells with sponsors because GN placed another company on the chopping block and the potential backlash.
Great take on the LTT v GN drama. It never even came to mind, nor have i read it anywhere about your point that it's hurting the opinions of other creators. If Steve Kardashian continues his way, it won't be long that he'll get burned for it. He also never acknowledges the point's linus raise cause we know if he did, it would expose he's wrongdoing. Apparently, he's too good to be wrong.
fyi billit ref emails and did a statment. on twitter . gn fans sent them multi death threats. so post was taken down.
Anyways love how to addressed this. My only fear is that Steve IIRC didn’t lean that much on the harrassment angle it was his audience that did. This is the result of bad faith reporting but it’s the only ammunition that Steve could have against you. Otherwise I love seeing Steve peers weigh in. Last time you could tell no one dared to be candid about the situation. Times change and you gained a new sub. The biggest discussion about ethics in the industry and so many people are missing out. I applaud you for speaking out
Mmm, Beers and computers. The best kind of content
Just found your content because of this episode and talking about the GN & LTT situation. I think you discussed it very well. NZXT has great products, I don't agree with how they did their rentals, but that doesn't mean they are suddenly the devil's company.
That aside, I look forward to your reviews of the 50 series, and plan to stick around for those! I'm planning on upgrading to either a 5070 or 5070ti from my 3080ti. It's still a good card, but I want to run more games at 4k, and faster encoding for video editing would be nice. Look forward to your coverage!
Wow... not seen any of your videos before. But, based solely on you talking about LMG / Steve / Rossman, I feel the need now to check out your other stuff. Nice that there are still some adults around.
I think Steve is upset over the news of linus going on the tonight show
Very interesting discussion. Not a fan of the GN take on LTT, but I hadn't even thought about the NZXT situation like that.
Reading that GN hired a lawyer over this stupid stuff is so crazy
Hold up, Steve owes you money? Hit piece time lol!
Drone operators are standing by.
Yay Rett is on tonight!
Don't out me bro.
you've done it now , craft computing will be the star of the Next GN expose 🤣
Loved the show this week
Speaking facts about costco
Came for LTT/GN drama pirce,
Seems the channel is great.
Subbed.
Can't believe stirred the pot over honey just for him to come out looking worse and ltt looking better now that we have more context to the billet labs stuff
From a dude chillin pretty close to Spokane that was a cool shout out!
The qualifying arguments part has been a thing on reddit for a LONG time because you'll have fanbois from one half of the community attacking the other half. So you have to rush to the middle so you don't get downvoted to oblivion by one camp/tribe. Not really unique to GN/LTT drama but helps further explain it I think.
Also, I've seen your videos around, like that truenas one from 3 months ago. I don't remember why I never clicked subscribed, but I like your style. I'm going to watch more of your videos from now on. Though, I'm sorry if you see a spike of activity. Your video got linked on the LTT subreddit. And now I feel like I'm doing the qualifying argument thing here... Anyway, thanks for the content.
IIRC, GN did not cover Madison's allegations at all, they just came out the same weekend.
Didn't he go over it in a follow-up video?
Pickle Beer: Jack Pine Brewery - Dead on Dill
🤢
20:00 news starts with the 5090
The Billet labs video where Linus was testing the waterblock. Clearly if the waterblock had been tested with the right GPU (although they were told it would work with the card they tested it with in the video as well) wouldn't have ever cooled the GPU with any reasonable performance, and it's not in any way acceptable for Linus to give a company's product a pass, when it was clear that nothing was going to change the fact that it was not a good product.
Steve tried calling Linus out for not being through, but Steve can't claim that he hasn't handwaved doing certain tests that would have been "too time consuming".
How about the fact that every time Steve attacked Linus was either right after or during when Linus had some kind of extremely big win. The first time was with the release of the backpack, the second during the first LTX post pandemic, and the 3rd was the day after Linus was on The Tonight show.
Very nice break down and take away of the GN drama.
I can't say I find GN's content very appealing and his holier-than-thou attitude combined with how he games Reddit just isn't for me.
Seems like a lot of people have a lot of stories to tell about him and his behaviour as well, it all seems to fit.
Your thoughts on the GN topic is basically along the same lines as what I have been thinking when I read JayztwoCents recent community post on him trying some Asus stuff again recently after dropping them from the channel a while back, asking folks not to get mad at him lol
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm talking about. GN slams a company and blacklists them, and the rest of us have to deal with the repercussions. I'm not even talking about sponsorships, but just reviewing a product or including the company in a video. It's ridiculous.
Wait, so you knew you'd be losing affiliate sales when Honey approached you to sponsor, yet you didn't make a video on it alerting all other xreators? Steeeeeeve!
I don't always watch your podcast, only when I have time. While I don't agree with everything said, and there are many narratives in the dramas, it's always better to share different views and different narrative to make our own opinions. But then again, with a grain of salt. To me, all parties failed to handle this correctly and lead to this "smellystorm".
I like that your view is different that the one I had originally and gave me more perspective and another view on the subject.
Being a fanatic is always detrimental to any causes (I'm talking about, especially viewers advocating for their favorite TH-camrs while they just blindly believe a side because “evidence” was given). There are opinions of different parties who had different takes on the subject which I agreed even though they were contradictory from one another.
Anyway good content!
1:37:29 hard disagree on that, there's a floor for used pricing and those cards have hit it. What the 5070 release will impact strongly is 4080 used market I think, as people can't just sell it at near new pricing used because "what's the alternative?"
Great, now I remember I'm angry at Costco.
How can anyone support an organization that replaces sausage dogs with hot dogs and thinks that's ok?!?
Anyone who recommends their hot dogs is obviously anti-sausage dogs and may not be qualified to even talk about processed meats in general.
Every once in-a -while I hop on one of these...and then remember that although I like your content, I do not agree on your opinions on most everything else.
23:21 jesus, my entire pc is 600 watts, that gpu can consume more then my entire pc. what?
Never mind overclocking!!
1:09:55 - that earns you a like and a comment. (for the algo)
The cult of Steve from Gamers Nexus, with the rabid followers and the "you must follow my edicts or be punished for eternity" attitude is extremely hostile to the entire industry, why would anyone want to start doing tech reviews while they're acting like this.
Also you should only be working 100 hour weeks during the first 2 years of a new business max. It's been 13 years of Journalism/Interview/HW Review they should be making enough money to have employees to do work for him, it's not a flex unless your a making enough to have nice things.
Gamers Nexus Ethics Video - th-cam.com/video/JNNQVo2dGuE/w-d-xo.html
At least something good came of this drama new creator discovered.
I couldve sworn the accusations of sexual harassment came after the GN video. If i remember correctly that was entirely Madison being Madison; GN didnt get into it.
You are correct. Which actually makes GNs accusations that much weaker in retrospect.
@@CraftComputing I'm sorry if I came off as a GN defender; I hadnt watched the full segment yet when I left that comment. You were on point with everything you said. Always found your videos to be fun and educational - also found more than a few brews that I've enjoyed thanks to you.
Oh, no worries at all. You were correcting a misstatement by me. Thanks for watching 🤘
For the nzxt rental thing, I remember seeing a news segment around ps2/xbox days where they were talking to people outside of I think, coincidentally, Rent-A-Center and when they talked to a guy that just got a ps2 that would end up being $800 in payments he said something like "I'll never have $300 that I can drop in one shot on a PlayStation, but I always have twenty bucks in my pocket."
Just wondering, why is the audio podcast version in my podcast app almost always late? Would love to have it there at the same time the TH-cam version is released.
The YT stream is live..once it goes to VOD, it's pulled down, encoded, and uploaded to Spotify, then distributed to other platforms. Takes time, even when fully scripted.
As someone who publishes a podcast that's pretty similar to this, getting things up on Spotify takes a few hours of processing essentially at best. This is a TH-cam live stream so it's immediately here, even if they recorded the audio locally so they had it on hand once they upload it to the audio podcast platforms it takes a bit to push out to Apple podcasts Spotify etc.
@@CraftComputingthanks for the response! It just that I see episode 365 was just released in my player together with this one. Just wondering what that is about.
1:13:15 Please provide links to the four videos GN made about NZXT on a Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday.
So, on the Honey discussion, LMG actually did make a video on Honey. It was the video that GN quoted. What Linus was saying was that, when they originally drop Honey as a sponsor, they decided not to make a video. The absurd logic of Steve's "out of context quote" was A) that Linus made a video on it before Steve (well, at least he addressed it in a video - WAN Show) and B) Steve didn't make a video years ago.
When you add context to Linus's quote in Steve's video, that entire schtick makes absolutely no scenes at all.
I unsubbed from Gamers Nexus and gave it to you. Great coverage!
GN is the SunnyV2 of tech youtube
When I think about that NZXT rental program, it reminds me of a hot water tank rental. You’re paying for the support in the chance that something goes wrong and/or you get a replacement. Not to say that their pricing is good and will eventually eclipse the price of the PC, but that’s something nobody thinks of.
And NZXT is an amazing company. I bought an H1, the cooler died, wrote support and they sent me an H1 V2 to replace it free of charge.
If I am not misremembering, I believe Steve also criticize LTT for the 7950x3D review for talking to AMD after they thought they received a malfunctioning cpu. I could be mistaken, but I would swear that happened or I could be misattributing to something else.
You are correct. They alerted AMD to their unexpected results rather than publishing them, and Steve criticized them for... not publishing inaccurate results?
@@CraftComputing The opposite of like how they criticized LTT for not following up with Billet Labs and reshooting. He wants it both ways.
Wholeheartedly agree on the GN thing. Tbh i always found his writing a bit pretentious, maybe it was only me i thought at the time, even prior to these 'blockbusters'.
Seems he has let the fame go to his head. I hope he can take a break, not do 100 hrs a week, sit down, maybe go to a therapist. Being this angry and this overworked is not okay.
Maybe glazing you a bit but your videos are a lot more entertaining to me, even when info dense. Also, any chance you are still considering reviving that quanta server? I enjoyed the 2 parter and wanna see where this rabbithole goes. I can imagine a lot of people are of the same opinion.
Steve is being extremely childish and petty, trying to make small mistakes or badly worded messages as something egregious. You would think Linus slept with his GF and run over his dog on the way home.
I will die on the hill that on whole there was nothing wrong with Established Titles. Anyone who didn't know exactly what they were "buying" should frankly have their spending priviliges restricted by family.
Japanese katsu curry!
Based.
I'll take a minute and give Steve the benefit of the doubt for being 15 minutes late. There is the possibility that his being upset was aimed at himself over being late. There are situations where things happen and we all end up being late to some important thing now and again. Personally I beat myself up pretty hard when I make a mistake.
Taking your perspective of what happened at face value though It makes him look like an a**hole. Maybe GN is a bigger deal than craft computing. First off it would be extremely rude of the company to stop your meeting midway through to have the meeting with the guy who was 15 minutes late.
Second GN may be a bigger deal than craft computing, but I suspect that the company who you and he both had meetings scheduled with that day is a bigger deal than GN, and they probably don't have the time to sit around and wait for who knows how long till he shows up.
That isn't their problem whatsoever They also probably have 100+ employees, and large companies can't just drop everything and waiting for one guy to show up to the meeting he's running late for.
It sounds like the company probably had meetings scheduled all day. They can't just risk pushing all their other meetings and possibly losing another day of productivity for Steve.
I'd guess that they waited probably about 5 minutes, saw you there, knowing you were the next on the schedule, and said "Your next, come on."
@@cp37373 I definitely had some mistakes and some missing punctuation, also the monolith of text probably didn't help.
I wouldn't read too much into that anecdote. It was a one time thing that he likely doesn't remember, and I'm sure I've done the same thing when I'm late to a meeting at CES.
@CraftComputing I wasn't there and don't have all the information so there's no way to be sure, but paired with everything else it just doesn't sound so implausible. I kind of feel like Steve and Linus were destined to clash eventually because they both have spotlight seeking personalities. Linus doesn't hide it though, which probably is why he rubs a fair amount of ppl the wrong way, but I get the impression that he doesn't feel like there's not room for another personality that's similar to his within this community.
I don't have the attention span for a GN video, and it seems like I'm really only missing the subjective opinion of a petty man when the topic is anything beyond technical details.
I like the way you do your reviews Jeff, so don't go changing - why would you want all reveiws to be exactly the same anyway? Real world usage of hardware IS a valid review, and this is why I watch your channel.
I had to stop watching GN; all of the sarcasm and opinion presented as fact became too much and I'd agree it's far from "investigative journalism".
Keep up the good work.
LTT/GN beef... i want them both do better and i really hope they do better...
Linus during the initial drama could have gone to forums and just told something like this... People were pushed too far with LTX, new CEO is coming in soon and we will do better in production and internal management...
instead we got messy message that frustrated many people and gave more fuel for GN...
Steve for sure should get his feet on the ground and not be high on some brain entrusted serotonin/adrenaline rush while making long "exposes" about stuff and get real stuff done... desire to make good is there and let's hope it will get to the goal more often
Honey case
Some of the Linus's statements did rub me the wrong way...
"not our story to break" - sorry, even you do not call yourselves as journalists, you almost never make real own moves
"everybody knew about it, people sent this info to everybody" - sure, nice that you are telling it was a huge thing.. but yet...
"we could not make the video about it" - i can agree with that... but same time LTT is running 2 news aggregation shows, has social media and such... there were many other places they could have spread that info further than some forum post...
in my eye they for sure were not the villain in the overall picture... but I really wish that they would have had stepped up and been the hero back in the day...
GN's honey video LTT clip... that was just cheap and dishonest stab .. and i think even Steve and his editors know that...
PS: ad-block is piracy - if you think other ways then i think you are ether ignorant or have bad morals..
If an influencers decides to drop a sponsor they should either keep quiet or publish the statement in the same format as the sponsorship. Posting on a forum blog etc is the equivalent of a front page headline and bottom of the page 6 correction - very few people read it
That's your opinion on how a media outlet should operate. I've dropped sponsors before for a variety of reasons, and none of those needed a public proclamation. Sometimes it was not agreeing to terms. Sometimes it was a sponsor being difficult to work with. I'm also choosy of my sponsors and only promote products and services I would actually stand behind, so 'dropping' a sponsor doesn't exactly mean 'no longer recommend'.
If I went out and started burning bridges with every failed deal, there'd be no one left to work with.
@@CraftComputing I am *NOT* saying that dropping a sponsor need a message
I said "keep quiet" which it appears you are saying you did - all I am saying is *IF* someone chooses to speak out then they should use the same medium as the original message, so it reaches the same audience as the original message.
@@abzzeus If the sponsor is still a good deal/product for the *consumer*, then no, channels shouldn't have to publish that they've dropped them. That's the crux of the entire debate here, it appears that with the information they had at the time LMG had no way of knowing Honey was messing with consumers as well.
@ Again, that's *NOT* what I'm saying
*IF* a channel chooses to put out a notice, then it should be in the same format as the original message - so the same audience gets a chance to see it
How many people just watch the youtube & not visit the forums of the channels? Probably a lot
GN has become, in my eyes, Tek Syndicate 2.0 They both just went out of his way to ruin any and all credibility that they had.
Deadnaming Emily? Not cool. Rest of your points, spot on! Finally unsubbed from GN last night. Time to move on.
*edit* I did it myself in the post, so I changed it to Emily.
Wow, deadnaming was absolutely a mistake on my part. I was referring to emails GN published this week on the CPU delid issue, where Emily was a presenter in a video. They were using their old name at that time, and the emails were as well. Thanks for calling this out, as it absolutely was not my intention. Sorry to Emily as well.
@Zastrutzki kindly, you're deadnaming Emily in this callout 😬
@ Yeah, I stepped on my own bloody rake there, but there was already a reply, and it felt disingenuous to fix my own mistake after that.
Is it considered deadnaming if it was their identity at the time ?
@@Nyancat703 that's what I wonder too. Well, I guess it's up to the person to consider or not consider that.
Isn't telling Steve what he should and shouldn't do the same thing you're criticizing him about? Also, LMG is a $100m company. It's not a small man team in Appalachia and it's not a guy in his basement drinking beers surrounded by Chinese mobos. Also, the sexual harassment costume was independent of Steve and lawyers are NEVER brought in to route out "bad actors" when those accused are owners or c suite. That's just asinine to assume so. If the behavior is egregious enough, yeah they'll file a report but if they can spin the facts well enough, they will always protect the corporate interests of those that are signing their checks.
Read the long thread from Madison herself that reads like a checklist of virtually every bad decision/management style that every small company that grows big faces. It's a problem kind of endemic of TH-cam too where these big influencers end up creating teams with their besties in upper management, only to find out their besties are abusing that power (because they have no experience, no training, and no accountability). To just brush off sexual harassment and groping claims as "Steve has a grudge" is just pathetic in an industry that's dominated by gamer gate misogynists and who's primary subreddit is an allusion to klan and n@zi ideology.
Linus is a perma victim but also somehow the most powerful and lucrative tech channel (so much that he's able to build a competitive platform). He's manipulative and narcissistic and virtually anyone who's lived with a person like that smells it a mile away from anything that dude says that isn't scripted. He still puts out entertaining content but he's straight up the Ellen DeGeneres of this side of TH-cam.
As for Steve, he's not a trained journalist but you're holding him to that standard instead of holding him to the standard, a now stringent standard than you good Linus for some reason. Steve isn't perfect at all, but he doesn't punch down either. He does deep dives into what social media gets riled up over and he calls out the companies as he see fits (the late stage capitalism world is burning, 99/100 tossed stones are going to find their mark). But he also calls out the public for making mountains out of molehills (see the recent AMD chip/mobi rumor).
IDK, it seems like most of your complaints are rooted in style over substance with a healthy dose of "the people he calls out say he's lying" as your primary evidence. The most glaring failure of GN was the billet Labs story (again he's not a trained journalist) but even that story Linus misrepresented entirely. He paid billet Labs only AFTER Steve published. Iirc he used weasel words like "we already paid billet their invoice" but left out the payment was made AFTER the GN video was published. That's just not good behavior to simp for. The only thing links is a victim of, is his own success. Why he hasn't put himself through any PR training is beyond me.
this guys channel was shoutouted in one of LMGs videos so thats maybe why he's on simping mode i dunno, I was subscribed to this channel before but hearing this take made me unsubscribe
Interesting.
When GN's reporting "harms" smaller channels, it's an issue. Ok, I think GN's reporting is overall a net positive, but I can get behind your point. ( a few fanboys shouting at u in the commnets isn't th same as harming)
But then you went off on this weird defensive campaign for AI, when people told you it harmed artists in a very REAL very tangible way.
The absolute hypocrisy.
th-cam.com/video/NTKV3UEMpOk/w-d-xo.html
I have a very nuanced take on AI, and outlined those concerns a couple years ago.
It's a brilliant move to join the drama. Enjoy the views.
He didn't title it for it, did he? Haven't watched quite yet to that part but judging by the comments he has said smth, which is best. Both parties in the drama deserve some criticism, ESPECIALLY GN.
@@PaperReaper he is making himself a part of the drama without having any involvement with either part, it does not get any more stupid than that.
And you have to live under a rock if you don't think this will be picked up by the community.
@@3k3k3you didn’t watch it obviously, he talks about how Steve causes issues for him and other creators. Steve has far reaching effects
This is their opinion show where they share their opinions on things that they have informed opinions about. @@3k3k3
@@hunterchao197 And that... is adding himself to the discussion, which is stupid.
Linus stayed silent on it? Did you guys even know what happened?
Of course not, that would require effort.
I think Linus knew about a tech problem. He or his team figured it out, made sure that his company wouldn't be effected by it. Then told nobody else about this tech problem while also taking money in sponsorship for keeping that tech problem secret.
Mind you others also figured it out and also didn't tell. But those weren't in the tech industry. I think mrbeast, mkbhd and a few others should have also been obligated to blow the whistle. They all didn't
That is egregious to all other creators that were sponsoring their own downfalls.
If you were a journalist, your max level would be tabloid tier.
Linus and/or his team didn’t figure out the issue themselves, someone else discovered it and brought it to their attention. In fact, quite a few tech-savvy and tech-literate TH-camrs all found out about the issue in the same way. Yet, not a single TH-camr, whether in tech or otherwise, who ran Honey ads ever made a video about it.
Please don't touch your keyboard until you get better at critical thinking. You're demonstrably wrong on the telling nobody else about it considering they publicly posted about it, you're demonstrably wrong on taking in money because they dropped the sponsor. It was becoming common knowledge within the creator space that Honey was messing with creators at the time. What was not common knowledge, and only blew up recently, was that they were also ripping off consumers.
You're missing the part where nzxt was modifying the rental pc parts on the fly as well as the prices. It wasnt just NZXT is doing shitty rentals.
How can we trust your judgement of Steve when your view is clearly missing information??
I have been watching LTT for years and I never knew why they dropped honey. I would have uninstalled that shit a long time ago if he made a vid rather than posting on the forum.
The NZXT riser had a faulty design where the screw can easily short and cause a fire. There needs to be 0 way a screw can reach the 12v rail.
Im sorry but your opinions are very flawed.
Every point he covered is missing tons of context, and every comment I've read so far is also missing tons of context.
Its not hard to go back and watch the HW News and dedicated videos to get the whole picture, but i guess its easier to just pretend to know what you're talking about instead...
I actually did cover the NZXT rental situation in another episode of Talking Heads. When switching from 'Buy' to 'Rent' the specs do change, however they are visible to the user the entire time.
LMG is under no obligation to make a video decrying Honey. They are also the ONLY outlet that made any statement at all. And as I stated, the situation has changed drastically since 2023, as Honey is now known to have been playing both sides. LMG is their own company, and can decide if they want to make a statement about a sponsor they had 2+ years ago or not.
Yes, I stated that NZXT had a faulty riser. I also said that GN posted multiple videos over a weekend criticizing NZXT's lack of response, knowing full well they had absolutely no time. Before responding, NZXT also likely needed to verify the claims internally and come up with a plan of action, not just send out a recall notice. These things take longer than a weekend.
Anything else you'd like to complain about?
Do you watch 100% of content posted on LTT's youtube from start to finish? then what's to say even if they did do a video on it that you would of even seen it?
So Craft Computing's position based on this stream is that what GN is doing is wrong because holding companies accountable for mistakes an bad practices is unethical and childish. Also based on 01:01:05 and forward leads to a conclusion that this is also personal for Craft Computing, because GN "consumer advocacy" content affects his ability to get sponsorships from these companies.
No, As an example, consider Apple: let’s say their Mac Mini design is anti-consumer because they make it impossible to use a standard consumer SSD in the second M.2 slot on the board. According to the interpretation of GN's approach, that one issue in one division of the company means you can never buy, use, or work with any Apple product, regardless of how good their other products are. That’s essentially how Craft Computing is arguing GN puts these criticisms across, that the entire company is tainted by a single issue. And by extension, anyone who reviews or uses Apple products (or anything from a company with questionable practices) is now bad.
A lot of your info regarding the Billet labs (LTT vs GN) situation is definitely incorrect. I suggest you do actual research before you are going to spread misinformation.
I was paraphrasing, but please, which aspect was incorrect? The expose from GN was published after LMG was made aware of the situation, and they were already well on their way to making the situation right with both the buyer from the LTX Auction, as well as returning the prototype to Billet.
LMG has pretty much posted all the receipts on that, and it was so bad Steve ate his own words and in his response to LMG he backtracked and only said "Linus once said hurty words to me in private, so instead of talking to him I decided to build a fake case".
Well I'm not Steve's fan boy but don't blame Steve for your personal problems with their fans. Do you know what Linus fanboys can do? Is Linus responsible for that? What has Steve done to you that you don't like him? Chill man, nobody is talking or blaming YOU. Who are you to say that his takes are bad for consumers without any evidence. Take care man, stay out of it. Not your fight.
In your example, Linus is reviewing a product as 'bad', which I usually means 'we don't recommend spending your money on this'.
A GN Expose into the dirty world of NZXT's Rental PC Program where he strikes a match and watches the company burn while also telling his viewers to never trust NZXT again... that tends to, as I said, 'light a fire under his viewer's asses' and causes them to echo his opinion whenever an NZXT product is shown in another video, even if completely unrelated to the subject of his video.
See the difference?