Find some decent deals on used prices of the SP-404SX, A, and MKII here! 👉🏼bit.ly/44ur7sI Or if you're looking at the EP-133 👉🏼 bit.ly/4dq1j55 -- You thinking about either machine or you already got your chosen machine? Thanks again to Perfect Circuit for sponsoring the video🤘🏼
My EP-133 it's a best groovebox in the most strict sense: It's a literal music sketch pad. I can get out the basic concept of whats rolling in my head so quickly out and running on the K.O.II. Then after hearing it, if I think it has some legs, then I can actually start working on it with my Tracker. If you want one device to do both? go with SP-404SX, but if you already have a true song-making setup and just need something to quickly get ideas out? EP-133 Hand down.
@@jeltoninc.8542 the art to the Teenage Engineering stuff is it's ease and approachability. i don't have any music production experience but I grabbed a OG OP1 and a KO2 within a month and I had full length songs within the same day. i used a friends 404 and after 2 hours, I put it down to go play video games lol
@@BASILEMOJO they complement each other extremely well, since the KOII has projects and more sample time, but the granular sampler, FX, and audio interface can be used to record both.haven't tried midi syncing them yet.
I do 3d art and just got an sp404 mk2 and it's absurd button combos feel like candy to my brain. Modeling software has some of the most insane and perplexing hotkeys and getting a music device that’s like that feels like home to me rn
One thing that keeps me coming back to TE is how compact and portable their gear is. With a lot of gear it always feels a bit too bulky to bring with me and play with on the road. Being able to fit the OP-1, OPZ, EP-133, and TX-6 into basically the same overall volume as the SP404 is a really hidden value of their products.
very true, I had my EP-133 hanging in its bag on my shoulder for like 3 hours and completely forgot that I had a musical device on me. its super lightweight but not in a bad way
I think, you touched on the most obvious but at the same time the most difficult to answer questions: what do I think I am going to use my tool for at the moment and what do I imagine where I want to go from here? Sure, GAS is a thing, for sure. But when it comes to a actually use the tools one has acquired and later on make/create stuff on them/with then, that can be quite a confusing journey - sometimes filled with regrets and dust collectors, but sometimes (when certain ideas and the appearance of a certain tool meet at the same and a creative time) one gets lucky: lots of ideas, right tools at hand and lots of fun for days and weeks to come. That said: thanks for the video, Ricky, it did in deed help me … in a way. Cheers! 😊
GU! thank you for the kind words, its a battle and sometimes an embarrassment wondering if we made the right choice or not. Eitherway looking to the fun side of things and just creating is the best thing we can do haha
@@RickyTinez Those are very wise words, Ricky! In the end, like @getjervis once put it (in a video over at Thomann Synthesizers): you have to use it to make music. So, just start (and keep!) creating, messing with ideas and tools to see what might happen along the way, staying open to be surprised … and remember to have fun, indeed. - Thank you, Ricky!
This is easy, LoFi-12 XT ;) Just got one. It’s hella fun. It has the mono sampling and menu shallowness (limited menu diving) of the OG Digitakt, the battery power, effects, storage and voices of the OG 404, the record and play button and portability of the EP, and the 12 bit sound of old MPC’s. It’s simple, fun, and direct. But it isn’t magical, perfect, or for what everyone want’s for their sound.
So much of this is changed by Mk2. If you approach Mk2 the same as SX then they appear to have same workflow, but the Mk2 workflow is way different if you come at it new. And has 32 note poly and can play chromatically so piano playing is possible. But the 404 is still less immediate and tougher to learn.
@daniel_dumile you can now set how many bars to record on a pad. My mk2 is clocked from my other gear. I can just set the measure count and have peferct loops.
Ya, I have the BB and it's why I'm scoping out a new sampler. If you decide on the BB you have to get a Launchpad or some controller like it because that screen is for the birds. And even with the controller, you need to dig into that menu anyway. Cool thing about 1010 is the devs are constantly upgrading it. It does something new every 6 months or so.
I'm currently waiting for that firmware update for the K.O.ii to see if we get - 1. sampling whilst playing (adding vocals for example - you need to hear the track for timing) 2. re sampling 3. save/load individual projects
Honestly as a Main MPC user now. My ep is just used for sampling purposes . I still drum on it because I love the computer keyboard pads but that’s from time to time. So my MP is basically my ep but on crack and steroids…. That’s me tho idk . Like you said it’s your workflow. Everybody works different🤷🏽♂️
I have an SP404A. Very similar to the SX. I'm not very good with it as I work mainly with DAWs, but it has some interesting features. One of the stand-out features is the mic input, which can also be routed through the effects, which presents a lot of options for live vocal performances. I haven't done any live stuff, but am planning to, and the SP404 seems like a great device for adding live loops on the fly.
I think once TE adds resampling and recordable performance FX the Ep-133 KO II gonna be a classic. Very good workflow, long lasting battery life, and such a GOOD sound.
True. The problem with TE is they have a bizarre design philosophy sometimes. It's like you think, "This would be so cool if only they put this totally overlooked feature in it," and they say, "Well, we could do that, but we're not going to - because armadillos." They get frustrating sometimes.
@@hadrien5697 I'm aware that they have the space for updates, and I am sure they will, I just hope it does introduce pretty important features like resampling.
I'm relatively new to the SPs. I got the 404Mk2 recently, and haven't upgraded the firmware to 4.04 yet. But I was pleasantly surprised by how quickly I picked up finding my way around it, and feeling comfortable with the workflow. That said, I do worry that if I'm away from it for a couple of weeks, I'll have to spend time getting to know it again.
The fact that a 15 year old device can even give it a run says loads - for its capabilities, or lack of capabilities of the KO. Either way, if it inspires you, go for. For me personally, 404mk2 is just a joy - even though the SP workflow is wack.
This is an amazing comment. It shows that you recognize what the device can do for you even though it's a pain to use. I love that! That's a similar feeling to the octatrack or the older MPCs they're slow, and clunky to sometimes do simple things but there's something special about them
I’m tired of all these SP-404 vs EP-133 comments. Been seeing them since the EP first came out. People act like it’s a life or death situation and they have to choose one when you can buy both for different reasons. And if it’s a budget issue, most say “save a little extra and get an SP 404 instead of the EP”. Well wouldn’t the same logic apply if you get an SP and can still save and get an EP later on down the line? You don’t have to be tied down to one piece of portable gear your whole life. I have an MPC One along with the KO 2 and that’s sufficient for MY needs. I don’t understand what the big deal is, other than people wanting to hate just to hate cuz they have nothing else to do.
Dear Teenage Engineering, please give us a new update on the ep 133. I got a love/hate relationship with it, so i would appreciate it if you make me enjoy this machine a little bit more. Nice review Ricky. Maybe more sampler comparisons as an idea?
Heads up, they said the other day they have been working on a new product but are working on the new update as well so hopefully soon.. they have promised resampling and who knows what else?
@@RickyTinez Another interesting comparison would be the EP-133 vs Novation Circuit Tracks, since I believe they have a lot of overlap in terms of features.
Thanks, Ricky, this video came literally at the right time, as I got a sp404.2 just yesterday. And if you're used to Akai/Elektron/even other Roland stuff, it's not intuitive. A "weird tricky machine". Let's see if the SP and me will be able to share a deep relationship...
CR is actually pretty good! Kind of has the good features from every device but doesn’t really excel at any of them. Most intuitive workflow of any of them.
@@sneaky_general I agree with Sneaky, the CR is an AWESOME device but it I suffer from the same situation with most groove boxes with it. the "now what" phase where I feel like I hit its limits, or I want to take it to the whole studio and its a bit of a pain to get it into a DAW or something.
I got the mk2 and the ko2, and I feel the mk2 is convoluted, too much crammed into one device without a great way to work with it all. The KO2 has the opposite issue, a great and fast workflow and well thought out device lacking just a few key functions that could make it the best at its price point. Resampling, scene chaining and downsampling/lo-fi mode/conversion is all it needs to be an absolute tiny beast imo.
I haven't bought either device. But I watched 20 minutes of the Roland tutorial video and felt like I already knew how to use every function of the device. One view of the EP-133 tutorial and I was completely confused.
2:26 "On The SP404 SX.. There is NO PLAY BUTTON." The 404 device itself is great! But Then and now, I just can't imagine why the 404 UI was designed in the convoluted way it was, when much easier workflows exist, including on other Roland devices! Like the TR and RC. 5:28 I was also using it for playing back stems I had made in Ableton, but I would have liked the ability to more easily "just make a track" on it.
If I wanted to make vaporwave and don’t have any experience with samplers, would the workflow of the 404 Mk1 be good or go with something from like Akai or Elektron, or something else? I’m hoping to pull samples from tapes and use mono synths + drum machines along with pedals for FX. I struggle with things that have a lot of menu diving.
The SP404 mk1’s are pretty straight forward if you don’t want to menu dive. They don’t have a true pitch shift, so you might want to take that into consideration. The current MPC’s are pretty simple to use, and you can get a used MPC One for a decent price. The Elektron gear does require a bit of menu diving and key combinations to remember, especially the Octatrack.
@@anthonyb.2983 thanks. Interesting about the pitch shift, I’ll have to think about that. I tentatively had my eye on the MPC One but figured I’d ask around a bit to see what other people are doing. I appreciate your input very much!
I was seeing complaints when the to ko came out, have these issues all been addressed? What issues are still out there, I don't want to buy if there is some permanent error involved. Tia
I own a Ep . And learning was so fun. But it’s limitations were exhausting. I got gifted an MPCone+ by my fiancé who noticed I would get pissed at the machine😂. And I mean you could only have so many stereo tracks on the Ep before it started taking out the first stereo tracks you imputed by order. It also likes to play Ghost notes when done as well. The 64mb is a little too underwhelming after a bit. The limitations were messing up my creativity. As for the 404 never had one, but I can clearly see it does not have a memory issue, plus I see homies make bangers on theirs. All in all if your wanting to purchase a sampler even though I love my ep. I’d go with the 404 , it has to be MK11 . You’ll get more your moneys worth….. or you could go with MPC and skip all that lmao 🗿🤦🏽♂️. Jk baby steps guys
@@TheChameleon2008 they do overprice the fuck out of them. And for 300$ with 64mb what are we in the fucking 80’s?. I made a dumb purchase but I don’t regret it, should of got the 404mk11 tho 🤦🏽♂️. And the MpC was added as a joke mate!
So, it would seem that the 133 is better as an on-the-go scratchpad. Say for instance on an international flight. Then you get home to the studio, and flesh the song out on a DAW. The 404 seems better suited to doing full on production on the go. But if I am on the go, I am not trying to spend all my time producing while traveling; for that, I'd just stay home. So... i just bought a 133 (today) for my flight to Korea. Seems I made the right choice? I just don't like the memory size on the 133. It seems unnecessarily small, given the low price and miniaturization of memory these days. Like damn. They could have at least given us an expansion slot. Anyway... Thanks for the upload! This validated my choice.
Thanks Ricky do you notice a big difference in sound quality? and what about exporting tracks and integration with DAWs. I love the velocity sensitive pads on the EP-133 and the quick workflow - but interested in the Sp-404 too.
The underdog would be the new SONICWARE Lofi-12 XT. The OS and functionality is far more refined and complete compared to the KO. Functionality wise its up there with the SP
Can we get an EP-133 vs Model:Samples comparison? I haven't seen anyone doing this, and to me they both seem to be right in the same sweet spot of price/drum machine/sample playback "drum groovebox".
I use the KO 2 and run it into my sp 404 to create songs they really complement each other for what the other one lacks with the better sequencer of the KO2 and the Better Audio manipulation and effects of the Sp404 then just perform using the sp404A and run it through the KO 2 to play chromatic samples, might seem a bit convoluted and I could just get an Mpc but the fact that they are both battery powered that lasts way longer then an SP 404MK2 and the MPC is a huge win for me who performs on the streets and doesn’t want to carry a huge power pack with me
Damn, a video right in time. I am hunting for a groovebox type machine to just play around with sequencer music and I am not yet decided on EP-133 (well, actually after this video I am a bit). What do you think about Novation Circuit Tracks compared to these two?
hello! Would you recommend the EP-133 for a live act with other hardware? or does the problem with changing song/projects really denies that possibility?
Because the SP-404sx is legacy, only available on the second hand market, and already has a successor for years, using it for comparison makes less sense IMO.
Everyone knows the 404 has it's quirks and a unique workflow and that's the reason why many people love it. To use an older model then use the fact that it's an older model with less features as a negative point seems odd. I appreciate the mk2 costs more but it does so much more than the SX albeit with a ton of menu diving. Personally I'm not much of a fan of TE gear. To me it seems either too much like a toy or it's too expensive and they rarely hit the sweet spot on this other than maybe the KO.
When you say the samplers have a max voice count of 12 mono or 6 stereo playing at a time do you mean playing on the same beat? Or is it a maximum number of samples you can use in a project?
For the love of everything holy does anyone know if you can run samples through the sp404-sx to the ko II? Kinda an odd question but I have both just like this gentleman
I think the Novation Circuit Rhythm might be the closer competitor, but either Circuits would be a interesting comparison given they are around the same pricepoint
Thoroughly enjoying the mkii after the recent update. Looper is ez/ The new synth engine allows you to create sounds from scratch. Just found your channel! Think last time I saw you was lunch over some Indian food. - ras dude
Humm… I really enjoy most of your videos, but I don’t know about this comparison, sorry. Why the SX and not the MK2…? Or in that case, why the KOII and not the PO…? The price difference between the SX and MK2 is also relatively low (on the second hand market). And yes, the SP really needs time to get used to… if you want to memorize ALL shortcuts. If you don’t take the time to train your muscle memory it sucks, period. But when you simply use its basic features (most of them which are printed onto the front of the device) it’s kinda straightforward. Maybe the KO is a bit easier to get started, but then again, the latest SP is so much more capable when it comes to sampling, FX, resampling, number of samples, sample time, sample management, note polyphony… and the list goes on and on. In my opinion the thing where the #SP404mk2 and KOII really really differ in terms of workflow is layering sequences. Where the SP offers realtime and TR-style step-sequencing, it cannot layer multiple MIDI sequences. For that you need to bounce-down a sequence to a sampled loop. After that you can layer multiple loops… also one-shots, which is great! On the KO you can layer up to 4 MIDI sequences, which makes experimenting by stacking melodic or rhythmic elements a bit easier. This is the one thing #Roland could (or maybe should…?!) add to sequencer of the SP: recording and stacking up to 16 patterns, instead of adding or editing all notes within one single pattern at a time. And, when it comes to user interface design TE did a better job (also by looking at other devices). I don’t know who’s in charge of that part at Roland, but it seems like they get a bonus every time a new shortcut is added. For instance the way the’ve recently implemented the new ‘looper’ feature… my goodness! It would have been so much easier to add an option to the existing sample menu AND workflow: ‘loop after sampling’. But no, someone must have said: let’s make it a separate menu so we can add just another shortcut to activate it. Makes me think of that cartoon where an IT consultant designs a tree swing for a customer. It’s these kind of extras / additional features and their shortcuts that muddied or overcomplicated the standard SP workflow.
I think what hasn’t been said here is that SP is way to go for Hip-Hop, Trance and other people who think in samples. EP is more for people who think in notes, more conservative synth audience who also wants to try sampling. I don’t have that vision that is shown in the SP music making videos but I have a traditional composer vision so I chose the KO2.
For the price of a pizza you can have an ultra portable sampler, equipped with a microphone, several gigabytes of memory, great connectivity with Bluetooth and even wifi 🤯. It weighs no more than 400 grams, polymorphic once connected to your USB midi controller you can even have the same pads as an MPC💣Wow 💥💥💥 When in doubt, it is better to buy Koala Sampler, an extremely competitive price considering the possibilities offered. The best part is that Koala sampler is constantly evolving. If you don't care about the hype and what you're looking for is a great sampler, go for it!
Haha I was one of the people who asked this question. I finally bought EP133 last week and I totally agree with your points in this video. They are 2 very different machines with very different workflows and strength and weaknesses. Right now I use EP133 to compose and SP404SX for adding effects after the composition is done.
It definitely worth getting EP133 if you are still debating. I got my EP133 on Friday and spent the whole weekend playing with it and made 3 or 4 tracks by the end of the weekend. It's a bit funny but many times I found myself smiling at the machine :)
whatever, you know why the ep133 is better? because people buys it to make beats and sketch ideas and not just effects. the sp404 its a very nice effects processor, thats it. nobody uses it to make actual beats because its a pain in the ass. most of producers just make a beat in a daw or any other groovebox, then move it to the sp and apply all the cool fx and performance tools. i repeat NOBODY USES IT TO MAKE ACTUAL BEATS, CHOP SAMPLES, FULL SONGS OR EVEN SAMPLE STUFF. the ep133 is a new device, with a whole life of updates and fixes on its way. the sp404 is dead, ancient tech. tbh roland should sell a box with just the 404 fxs, no pads, no nothing, just the fx.
I have come to solve this whole problem: THE ZOOM RYTHMTRAK AR-48. SONG MODE, UNQUANTISABLE MIDI, 12 STEREO VOICES 64 STEPS, ONBOARD SAMPLING, SD CARD. COPYING IS EASY, FULL FX SECTION, ON FACE RESAMPLE. You know its true my children! you know it in your heart. Bow down to the rainbow tambourine as our one true god!
I still don't get why more samplers/grooveboxes don't stream from SD or allow way more sampling, most are still so limited for sample time. It seems crazy that the 404 is still pretty much standing alone as the one tool which does this so much better than anything else. I'm holding out for an Electribe 3 that has way more sampling, as I find the Electribe 2 the most immediate for creating songs (I haven't tried everything, but have tried plenty - 404ii, MPC One, MV1, Circuits, Mc101 and others) and it's undefeated for it's ability to immediately switch between songs.
I see no comparison when it comes to usability, quality, and features. I'm getting into the MPC workflow and hardware. However, I'm out of pocket for six months with no studio. Looking for a small footprint toy to keep my creativity fresh. Bought the EP-133 for my kid. He won't even use it. Not everyone likes T.E. mindset of silly icons and limited feedback of what is going on. T.E. EP-133 is literally a sized up O.P. calculator. LOL. Sure, it's cheap, but the quality sure does show where the money was saved!
yeah after buying the KOII. Its a pretty good drum machine. but thats about it. wasnt very much fun after that and i have way better drum machines so it now sits collecting dust. I should try and sell it really.
this video doesnt make sense if i have a sx i dont make that comparison, if i dont have either, i compare the EP to the 404 mk2. The argument that sx is similar to mk2 is bs, since mk2 has tons of extra features over the sx
To all my freestylers i would highly suggest the KO 2. If you want metro boomin style production you better with an MPC, but if you are trying to make beats for bar dropping, the KO allows you to make beats that help you shine, not carry you.
The ko2 is a toy compared to the sp404 i dont use either im an mpc circuit rhythm user i do have the og ko its pretty dope so the ko2 is definitely a cool little device but the 404 blows it clean outta the water as sample time synth engines bla bla bla both are cool but if i had to choose the 404 gets picked every time
By the time you navigate through endless menu trees to make your first beat on the P6, you could’ve already made a whole track and started jamming on the KO2. P6’s UI sucks! I’ve tried both, and I love the KO2, even though it’s up on the marketplace to be replaced by an SP404. People aren’t considering the big factor of using hardware: it’s all about the fun and creativity it brings. If it’s just about features, get a license for your favorite DAW…
@@tarekhteit7355 YOU ARE SO WRONG ,I HAVE BOTH DEVICE ?IT IS ACTUALLY SIMPLER ON THE ROLAND, IT IS MORE POWERFUL AND QUIET EASY AFTER SHORT TIME?YOU REALIZE HOW SUPERIOR AND HOW FASTER YOU GET A BEAT! DON'T TALK ABOUT STUFF YOU DID NOT EVEN TRY! The KO IS SOLD AS THE Roland Aira sampler is so much better ,superior for 198 Euro. Ciao Looser!😂
I love your channel but saying the 404-SX and the 404-MKii are similar is absolutely silly and borderline disingenuous. That's like comparing a PO-33 with a KOii. See what I'm saying? You're comparing the KOii with a 19 year old sampler. The KOii vs 404MKii is a totally different conversation. This is just a head scratcher of a video.
Find some decent deals on used prices of the SP-404SX, A, and MKII here! 👉🏼bit.ly/44ur7sI
Or if you're looking at the EP-133 👉🏼 bit.ly/4dq1j55 -- You thinking about either machine or you already got your chosen machine?
Thanks again to Perfect Circuit for sponsoring the video🤘🏼
Can't shake the feeling that the EP-133 looks like an old school calculator for the old school sampling space to slip by us.
My EP-133 it's a best groovebox in the most strict sense: It's a literal music sketch pad. I can get out the basic concept of whats rolling in my head so quickly out and running on the K.O.II. Then after hearing it, if I think it has some legs, then I can actually start working on it with my Tracker. If you want one device to do both? go with SP-404SX, but if you already have a true song-making setup and just need something to quickly get ideas out? EP-133 Hand down.
I have not found a device, besides my OP-1 Field, that I just click with like the KOII.
@@jeltoninc.8542 the art to the Teenage Engineering stuff is it's ease and approachability. i don't have any music production experience but I grabbed a OG OP1 and a KO2 within a month and I had full length songs within the same day. i used a friends 404 and after 2 hours, I put it down to go play video games lol
Roland Aira P-6 for 198 Euro ,make the Teenage totally KO!🤣😂🤣
@@BASILEMOJO they complement each other extremely well, since the KOII has projects and more sample time, but the granular sampler, FX, and audio interface can be used to record both.haven't tried midi syncing them yet.
I do 3d art and just got an sp404 mk2 and it's absurd button combos feel like candy to my brain. Modeling software has some of the most insane and perplexing hotkeys and getting a music device that’s like that feels like home to me rn
this is SO real
wtf
2:52 Quote of the year
One thing that keeps me coming back to TE is how compact and portable their gear is. With a lot of gear it always feels a bit too bulky to bring with me and play with on the road.
Being able to fit the OP-1, OPZ, EP-133, and TX-6 into basically the same overall volume as the SP404 is a really hidden value of their products.
very true, I had my EP-133 hanging in its bag on my shoulder for like 3 hours and completely forgot that I had a musical device on me. its super lightweight but not in a bad way
You can change the system settings so next scene you pick starts at the end of the current one playing on the ep 133
4:11 ..this made me LOL "I'LL SWITCH WHEN I'MMMM READY!!!"
hahaha exactly
I think, you touched on the most obvious but at the same time the most difficult to answer questions: what do I think I am going to use my tool for at the moment and what do I imagine where I want to go from here? Sure, GAS is a thing, for sure. But when it comes to a actually use the tools one has acquired and later on make/create stuff on them/with then, that can be quite a confusing journey - sometimes filled with regrets and dust collectors, but sometimes (when certain ideas and the appearance of a certain tool meet at the same and a creative time) one gets lucky: lots of ideas, right tools at hand and lots of fun for days and weeks to come.
That said: thanks for the video, Ricky, it did in deed help me … in a way. Cheers! 😊
GU! thank you for the kind words, its a battle and sometimes an embarrassment wondering if we made the right choice or not. Eitherway looking to the fun side of things and just creating is the best thing we can do haha
@@RickyTinez Those are very wise words, Ricky! In the end, like @getjervis once put it (in a video over at Thomann Synthesizers): you have to use it to make music. So, just start (and keep!) creating, messing with ideas and tools to see what might happen along the way, staying open to be surprised … and remember to have fun, indeed. - Thank you, Ricky!
This is easy, LoFi-12 XT ;) Just got one. It’s hella fun. It has the mono sampling and menu shallowness (limited menu diving) of the OG Digitakt, the battery power, effects, storage and voices of the OG 404, the record and play button and portability of the EP, and the 12 bit sound of old MPC’s. It’s simple, fun, and direct.
But it isn’t magical, perfect, or for what everyone want’s for their sound.
Ricky "The Axe" Tinez dropping knowledge bombs!!!
So much of this is changed by Mk2. If you approach Mk2 the same as SX then they appear to have same workflow, but the Mk2 workflow is way different if you come at it new. And has 32 note poly and can play chromatically so piano playing is possible. But the 404 is still less immediate and tougher to learn.
Mk2 wins hands down. I played with both and ended up selling all my pocket operators and went for the MK2.
The measure count from the latest update is what I've been waiting for since the 202. Less tedious editing for sure
Plus it's built like a tank
what is measure edit
@daniel_dumile you can now set how many bars to record on a pad. My mk2 is clocked from my other gear. I can just set the measure count and have peferct loops.
I'd love to see a comparison between the SP-404 mk2 and the 1010 Blackbox!
Ya, I have the BB and it's why I'm scoping out a new sampler. If you decide on the BB you have to get a Launchpad or some controller like it because that screen is for the birds. And even with the controller, you need to dig into that menu anyway. Cool thing about 1010 is the devs are constantly upgrading it. It does something new every 6 months or so.
I'm currently waiting for that firmware update for the K.O.ii to see if we get -
1. sampling whilst playing (adding vocals for example - you need to hear the track for timing)
2. re sampling
3. save/load individual projects
Or you can go for a SP? 😊
@@daijotogashi i already have an sp-404mkii and an MPC one.
@@cresshead wow good for you! Why waiting if you already have everything?
@@daijotogashi waiting for the 1 and 2 as that's my workflow.
Honestly as a Main MPC user now. My ep is just used for sampling purposes . I still drum on it because I love the computer keyboard pads but that’s from time to time. So my MP is basically my ep but on crack and steroids…. That’s me tho idk . Like you said it’s your workflow. Everybody works different🤷🏽♂️
I have an SP404A. Very similar to the SX. I'm not very good with it as I work mainly with DAWs, but it has some interesting features. One of the stand-out features is the mic input, which can also be routed through the effects, which presents a lot of options for live vocal performances. I haven't done any live stuff, but am planning to, and the SP404 seems like a great device for adding live loops on the fly.
Great to see the SX out. I can not get rid of mine… I even bought a second “broken” one for spare parts… 😬
I think once TE adds resampling and recordable performance FX the Ep-133 KO II gonna be a classic. Very good workflow, long lasting battery life, and such a GOOD sound.
True. The problem with TE is they have a bizarre design philosophy sometimes. It's like you think, "This would be so cool if only they put this totally overlooked feature in it," and they say, "Well, we could do that, but we're not going to - because armadillos." They get frustrating sometimes.
@@johnnymidnight2982 yeah but thats not the case here. The KO II not even using its second core ATM. Plenty of headroom for New features.
@@hadrien5697 I'm aware that they have the space for updates, and I am sure they will, I just hope it does introduce pretty important features like resampling.
I'm relatively new to the SPs. I got the 404Mk2 recently, and haven't upgraded the firmware to 4.04 yet. But I was pleasantly surprised by how quickly I picked up finding my way around it, and feeling comfortable with the workflow.
That said, I do worry that if I'm away from it for a couple of weeks, I'll have to spend time getting to know it again.
love your videi dude, always so relaxing.
What I'm hearing is to keep using what works for me, and get stoked for the new kaosspad!
The fact that a 15 year old device can even give it a run says loads - for its capabilities, or lack of capabilities of the KO. Either way, if it inspires you, go for. For me personally, 404mk2 is just a joy - even though the SP workflow is wack.
This is an amazing comment. It shows that you recognize what the device can do for you even though it's a pain to use. I love that! That's a similar feeling to the octatrack or the older MPCs they're slow, and clunky to sometimes do simple things but there's something special about them
I’m tired of all these SP-404 vs EP-133 comments. Been seeing them since the EP first came out. People act like it’s a life or death situation and they have to choose one when you can buy both for different reasons. And if it’s a budget issue, most say “save a little extra and get an SP 404 instead of the EP”. Well wouldn’t the same logic apply if you get an SP and can still save and get an EP later on down the line? You don’t have to be tied down to one piece of portable gear your whole life. I have an MPC One along with the KO 2 and that’s sufficient for MY needs. I don’t understand what the big deal is, other than people wanting to hate just to hate cuz they have nothing else to do.
When can we get that “knife vs chainsaw for slicing strawberries” vid bro?
🔪🍓🪚
hahaha!
The SP Def is a vibe, but the fun had with the EP133 is on a whole new level. This is a fact.
After seeing what is used to chop strawberries, I’m watching how I step here in the comments.
Dear Teenage Engineering,
please give us a new update on the ep 133.
I got a love/hate relationship with it, so i would appreciate it if you make me enjoy this machine a little bit more.
Nice review Ricky. Maybe more sampler comparisons as an idea?
Heads up, they said the other day they have been working on a new product but are working on the new update as well so hopefully soon.. they have promised resampling and who knows what else?
thanks Tobi! What would you want in the update if they made one? Also not a bad idea on the videos. Their use cases can be super specific at times :)
@@RickyTinez Another interesting comparison would be the EP-133 vs Novation Circuit Tracks, since I believe they have a lot of overlap in terms of features.
Yep. Changing scenes live can be set to happen at the end of the playing bar in system settings.
Been interested in the PioneerDJ DJS1000 lately. Kinda reminds me of a mixture of Digitakt, Maschine and CDJ.
I was looking to get an EP at the beginning of the year when they came out.
Looked at the 404 again and ordered that on the back of the memory alone.
Thanks, Ricky, this video came literally at the right time, as I got a sp404.2 just yesterday. And if you're used to Akai/Elektron/even other Roland stuff, it's not intuitive. A "weird tricky machine". Let's see if the SP and me will be able to share a deep relationship...
SP404A with the Aira P-6 has changed my flow!
When is the food prep demo for strawberry prep using the hatchet?
🤣
Now, could you make this a series and add Circuit Rhythm to the mix? :D
CR is actually pretty good! Kind of has the good features from every device but doesn’t really excel at any of them. Most intuitive workflow of any of them.
@@sneaky_general I agree with Sneaky, the CR is an AWESOME device but it I suffer from the same situation with most groove boxes with it. the "now what" phase where I feel like I hit its limits, or I want to take it to the whole studio and its a bit of a pain to get it into a DAW or something.
I got the mk2 and the ko2, and I feel the mk2 is convoluted, too much crammed into one device without a great way to work with it all.
The KO2 has the opposite issue, a great and fast workflow and well thought out device lacking just a few key functions that could make it the best at its price point.
Resampling, scene chaining and downsampling/lo-fi mode/conversion is all it needs to be an absolute tiny beast imo.
I haven't bought either device. But I watched 20 minutes of the Roland tutorial video and felt like I already knew how to use every function of the device. One view of the EP-133 tutorial and I was completely confused.
2:26 "On The SP404 SX.. There is NO PLAY BUTTON." The 404 device itself is great! But Then and now, I just can't imagine why the 404 UI was designed in the convoluted way it was, when much easier workflows exist, including on other Roland devices! Like the TR and RC. 5:28 I was also using it for playing back stems I had made in Ableton, but I would have liked the ability to more easily "just make a track" on it.
Even easier choice for me! I own a 404SX and can afford nothing else! 😄
It's a pain indeed to make a full song with but whadya gonna do 🤷♂
sp404 + ipad is the ultimate.
“I’ve got better tools.” 😂😂😂
Bro pulled out the hatchet 🤣😂🤣
Great video. Thank you.
Yeah, iTunes still exists and still syncs iPods! I’ll be using my iPod 5.5 to store my samples and sample into my sp404 MII.
Great video. Would be nice to add the rhythm into the mix.. I ended up buying the KO
If I wanted to make vaporwave and don’t have any experience with samplers, would the workflow of the 404 Mk1 be good or go with something from like Akai or Elektron, or something else? I’m hoping to pull samples from tapes and use mono synths + drum machines along with pedals for FX. I struggle with things that have a lot of menu diving.
The SP404 mk1’s are pretty straight forward if you don’t want to menu dive. They don’t have a true pitch shift, so you might want to take that into consideration. The current MPC’s are pretty simple to use, and you can get a used MPC One for a decent price. The Elektron gear does require a bit of menu diving and key combinations to remember, especially the Octatrack.
@@anthonyb.2983 thanks. Interesting about the pitch shift, I’ll have to think about that. I tentatively had my eye on the MPC One but figured I’d ask around a bit to see what other people are doing. I appreciate your input very much!
I was seeing complaints when the to ko came out, have these issues all been addressed? What issues are still out there, I don't want to buy if there is some permanent error involved. Tia
I own a Ep . And learning was so fun. But it’s limitations were exhausting. I got gifted an MPCone+ by my fiancé who noticed I would get pissed at the machine😂. And I mean you could only have so many stereo tracks on the Ep before it started taking out the first stereo tracks you imputed by order. It also likes to play Ghost notes when done as well. The 64mb is a little too underwhelming after a bit. The limitations were messing up my creativity. As for the 404 never had one, but I can clearly see it does not have a memory issue, plus I see homies make bangers on theirs. All in all if your wanting to purchase a sampler even though I love my ep. I’d go with the 404 , it has to be MK11 . You’ll get more your moneys worth….. or you could go with MPC and skip all that lmao 🗿🤦🏽♂️. Jk baby steps guys
TE makes overpriced toys. I mean, we all know the Roland sp 404 mk2 runs laps around this Ko133 so let alone a MPC since thats top of the food chain.
@@TheChameleon2008 they do overprice the fuck out of them. And for 300$ with 64mb what are we in the fucking 80’s?. I made a dumb purchase but I don’t regret it, should of got the 404mk11 tho 🤦🏽♂️. And the MpC was added as a joke mate!
I think the SP404 MkII is a great option if you want the portable sampler, but the MPC series is the king for a reason.
So, it would seem that the 133 is better as an on-the-go scratchpad. Say for instance on an international flight. Then you get home to the studio, and flesh the song out on a DAW. The 404 seems better suited to doing full on production on the go.
But if I am on the go, I am not trying to spend all my time producing while traveling; for that, I'd just stay home.
So... i just bought a 133 (today) for my flight to Korea. Seems I made the right choice?
I just don't like the memory size on the 133. It seems unnecessarily small, given the low price and miniaturization of memory these days. Like damn. They could have at least given us an expansion slot. Anyway... Thanks for the upload! This validated my choice.
Big thanks for this…. Was thinking about the 404… but I’ll stick with my MPC :D
Thanks Ricky do you notice a big difference in sound quality? and what about exporting tracks and integration with DAWs. I love the velocity sensitive pads on the EP-133 and the quick workflow - but interested in the Sp-404 too.
thanks!
The sp404mk2 just got a recent update- my favorite has been the looper!
The underdog would be the new SONICWARE Lofi-12 XT. The OS and functionality is far more refined and complete compared to the KO. Functionality wise its up there with the SP
Can we get an EP-133 vs Model:Samples comparison? I haven't seen anyone doing this, and to me they both seem to be right in the same sweet spot of price/drum machine/sample playback "drum groovebox".
I just want to know how you did that sticker cutout around the buttons. The exact method.
Why between the 404sx and not the 404mk2? Neat video though!
Price points in the used market
I use the KO 2 and run it into my sp 404 to create songs they really complement each other for what the other one lacks with the better sequencer of the KO2 and the Better Audio manipulation and effects of the Sp404 then just perform using the sp404A and run it through the KO 2 to play chromatic samples, might seem a bit convoluted and I could just get an Mpc but the fact that they are both battery powered that lasts way longer then an SP 404MK2 and the MPC is a huge win for me who performs on the streets and doesn’t want to carry a huge power pack with me
Damn, a video right in time. I am hunting for a groovebox type machine to just play around with sequencer music and I am not yet decided on EP-133 (well, actually after this video I am a bit). What do you think about Novation Circuit Tracks compared to these two?
hello! Would you recommend the EP-133 for a live act with other hardware? or does the problem with changing song/projects really denies that possibility?
Because the SP-404sx is legacy, only available on the second hand market, and already has a successor for years, using it for comparison makes less sense IMO.
Everyone knows the 404 has it's quirks and a unique workflow and that's the reason why many people love it. To use an older model then use the fact that it's an older model with less features as a negative point seems odd. I appreciate the mk2 costs more but it does so much more than the SX albeit with a ton of menu diving. Personally I'm not much of a fan of TE gear. To me it seems either too much like a toy or it's too expensive and they rarely hit the sweet spot on this other than maybe the KO.
When you say the samplers have a max voice count of 12 mono or 6 stereo playing at a time do you mean playing on the same beat? Or is it a maximum number of samples you can use in a project?
For the love of everything holy does anyone know if you can run samples through the sp404-sx to the ko II? Kinda an odd question but I have both just like this gentleman
*SP for life*
Very well said! Now can you do the same on the EP and Novation Circuit Tracks or even Digitakt? I believe they compare better than to the 404 🙂 Peace!
I think the Novation Circuit Rhythm might be the closer competitor, but either Circuits would be a interesting comparison given they are around the same pricepoint
@@Wrzlprnft True!
Thoroughly enjoying the mkii after the recent update. Looper is ez/ The new synth engine allows you to create sounds from scratch. Just found your channel! Think last time I saw you was lunch over some Indian food. - ras dude
Can’t you also load full back up banks from the SD card on the SP404?
Humm… I really enjoy most of your videos, but I don’t know about this comparison, sorry. Why the SX and not the MK2…? Or in that case, why the KOII and not the PO…? The price difference between the SX and MK2 is also relatively low (on the second hand market). And yes, the SP really needs time to get used to… if you want to memorize ALL shortcuts. If you don’t take the time to train your muscle memory it sucks, period. But when you simply use its basic features (most of them which are printed onto the front of the device) it’s kinda straightforward. Maybe the KO is a bit easier to get started, but then again, the latest SP is so much more capable when it comes to sampling, FX, resampling, number of samples, sample time, sample management, note polyphony… and the list goes on and on. In my opinion the thing where the #SP404mk2 and KOII really really differ in terms of workflow is layering sequences. Where the SP offers realtime and TR-style step-sequencing, it cannot layer multiple MIDI sequences. For that you need to bounce-down a sequence to a sampled loop. After that you can layer multiple loops… also one-shots, which is great! On the KO you can layer up to 4 MIDI sequences, which makes experimenting by stacking melodic or rhythmic elements a bit easier. This is the one thing #Roland could (or maybe should…?!) add to sequencer of the SP: recording and stacking up to 16 patterns, instead of adding or editing all notes within one single pattern at a time. And, when it comes to user interface design TE did a better job (also by looking at other devices). I don’t know who’s in charge of that part at Roland, but it seems like they get a bonus every time a new shortcut is added. For instance the way the’ve recently implemented the new ‘looper’ feature… my goodness! It would have been so much easier to add an option to the existing sample menu AND workflow: ‘loop after sampling’. But no, someone must have said: let’s make it a separate menu so we can add just another shortcut to activate it. Makes me think of that cartoon where an IT consultant designs a tree swing for a customer. It’s these kind of extras / additional features and their shortcuts that muddied or overcomplicated the standard SP workflow.
I think what hasn’t been said here is that SP is way to go for Hip-Hop, Trance and other people who think in samples. EP is more for people who think in notes, more conservative synth audience who also wants to try sampling. I don’t have that vision that is shown in the SP music making videos but I have a traditional composer vision so I chose the KO2.
Good and useful comment.
Interesting... And what do you think between EP-133 Vs Circuit Rhythm?
Ok, but what’s about sound? Is 133 one more plastic toy beat like other TE devices?
Pretty much CD quality on both devices (EP-133 is slightly better than CD). TE often looks like toy, but sounds very good.
For the price of a pizza you can have an ultra portable sampler, equipped with a microphone, several gigabytes of memory, great connectivity with Bluetooth and even wifi 🤯. It weighs no more than 400 grams, polymorphic once connected to your USB midi controller you can even have the same pads as an MPC💣Wow 💥💥💥
When in doubt, it is better to buy Koala Sampler, an extremely competitive price considering the possibilities offered. The best part is that Koala sampler is constantly evolving.
If you don't care about the hype and what you're looking for is a great sampler, go for it!
I didn't see that axe coming! 🤣
Haha I was one of the people who asked this question. I finally bought EP133 last week and I totally agree with your points in this video. They are 2 very different machines with very different workflows and strength and weaknesses. Right now I use EP133 to compose and SP404SX for adding effects after the composition is done.
It definitely worth getting EP133 if you are still debating. I got my EP133 on Friday and spent the whole weekend playing with it and made 3 or 4 tracks by the end of the weekend. It's a bit funny but many times I found myself smiling at the machine :)
whatever, you know why the ep133 is better? because people buys it to make beats and sketch ideas and not just effects.
the sp404 its a very nice effects processor, thats it. nobody uses it to make actual beats because its a pain in the ass. most of producers just make a beat in a daw or any other groovebox, then move it to the sp and apply all the cool fx and performance tools.
i repeat NOBODY USES IT TO MAKE ACTUAL BEATS, CHOP SAMPLES, FULL SONGS OR EVEN SAMPLE STUFF.
the ep133 is a new device, with a whole life of updates and fixes on its way. the sp404 is dead, ancient tech.
tbh roland should sell a box with just the 404 fxs, no pads, no nothing, just the fx.
I have come to solve this whole problem:
THE ZOOM RYTHMTRAK AR-48. SONG MODE, UNQUANTISABLE MIDI, 12 STEREO VOICES 64 STEPS, ONBOARD SAMPLING, SD CARD. COPYING IS EASY, FULL FX SECTION, ON FACE RESAMPLE.
You know its true my children! you know it in your heart. Bow down to the rainbow tambourine as our one true god!
EP-133 needs Truncate! But, I like it.
I still don't get why more samplers/grooveboxes don't stream from SD or allow way more sampling, most are still so limited for sample time. It seems crazy that the 404 is still pretty much standing alone as the one tool which does this so much better than anything else. I'm holding out for an Electribe 3 that has way more sampling, as I find the Electribe 2 the most immediate for creating songs (I haven't tried everything, but have tried plenty - 404ii, MPC One, MV1, Circuits, Mc101 and others) and it's undefeated for it's ability to immediately switch between songs.
With the new Sonicware LoFi-12 XT out the choice is even easier
3:54 I have not tested but latest update supposedly addresses this...
I see no comparison when it comes to usability, quality, and features. I'm getting into the MPC workflow and hardware. However, I'm out of pocket for six months with no studio. Looking for a small footprint toy to keep my creativity fresh. Bought the EP-133 for my kid. He won't even use it. Not everyone likes T.E. mindset of silly icons and limited feedback of what is going on. T.E. EP-133 is literally a sized up O.P. calculator. LOL. Sure, it's cheap, but the quality sure does show where the money was saved!
5:59 wot m8? Didn’t expect to hear that hear lol
TIL the SP doesn't have a play button! Shout out to Dibiase!
Perfect Circuit used prices are not much different from the new price, so if you shop with them you are better off purchasing new.
It's perfectly loud and perceptible, a ear-wax cleanup anyone?
SP-404 shines when you own 2...then they become even simpler...more the better!
Total hatchet job😜
In the world of cheap and compact memory, why would you put a 64mb limitation with options for expansion.
yeah after buying the KOII. Its a pretty good drum machine. but thats about it. wasnt very much fun after that and i have way better drum machines so it now sits collecting dust. I should try and sell it really.
Honestly I had the very same question ngl 😂
What about the Sonicware lofi 12 xt
octatrack still my first choice.
this video doesnt make sense if i have a sx i dont make that comparison, if i dont have either, i compare the EP to the 404 mk2. The argument that sx is similar to mk2 is bs, since mk2 has tons of extra features over the sx
WAMP wamp wamp wamp
To all my freestylers i would highly suggest the KO 2. If you want metro boomin style production you better with an MPC, but if you are trying to make beats for bar dropping, the KO allows you to make beats that help you shine, not carry you.
How about Koala plus a cheap midi pad controller?
The ko2 is a toy compared to the sp404 i dont use either im an mpc circuit rhythm user i do have the og ko its pretty dope so the ko2 is definitely a cool little device but the 404 blows it clean outta the water as sample time synth engines bla bla bla both are cool but if i had to choose the 404 gets picked every time
SP-404 SX hands down. Not even watching the video.
me when people pronounce the Mark 2 as Em-Kay-Two 😠
Choice is even easier now ! Roland Aira P-6 for 198 Euro ,make the Teenage totally KO!🤣😂🤣
By the time you navigate through endless menu trees to make your first beat on the P6, you could’ve already made a whole track and started jamming on the KO2. P6’s UI sucks!
I’ve tried both, and I love the KO2, even though it’s up on the marketplace to be replaced by an SP404.
People aren’t considering the big factor of using hardware: it’s all about the fun and creativity it brings. If it’s just about features, get a license for your favorite DAW…
@@tarekhteit7355 YOU ARE SO WRONG ,I HAVE BOTH DEVICE ?IT IS ACTUALLY SIMPLER ON THE ROLAND, IT IS MORE POWERFUL AND QUIET EASY AFTER SHORT TIME?YOU REALIZE HOW SUPERIOR AND HOW FASTER YOU GET A BEAT! DON'T TALK ABOUT STUFF YOU DID NOT EVEN TRY! The KO IS SOLD AS THE Roland Aira sampler is so much better ,superior for 198 Euro. Ciao Looser!😂
That ko2 is made poorly. Teenage engineering warranty and customer service is terrible too.
speeeeeee
One is a sampler the other is a groovebox.
Forget about the SX tho. MkII is the only way.
You should check out chompi some more it’s gotten better with the updates
I love your channel but saying the 404-SX and the 404-MKii are similar is absolutely silly and borderline disingenuous. That's like comparing a PO-33 with a KOii. See what I'm saying? You're comparing the KOii with a 19 year old sampler. The KOii vs 404MKii is a totally different conversation. This is just a head scratcher of a video.