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Copper dissolves gasses when hot and releases them when cooling thus it is much easier to cast if you add something to disrupt that like a hand full of zinc pennies or a roll of lead free solder.
I worked in a foundry for many years. We have chemicals to our sand so it sets better and holds it's shape better. One other thing is we never pour directly into the piece we are making. We have runners and vents which allow the metal to flow and fill. I hope this helps.
Hi Grant, I can help with the issues your having. your close but there are a few simple things that need to be addressed. Your green sand needs to be "milled" this is the process of completely covering your sand with the clay. its a crappy, long and labor intensive process but its the only way to make viable "true" green sand. effectively you need to mix the sand aloooot, one of the best ways is to place it on a tarp and walk on it for ages aka more than 10 mins. you could also put it in a large plastic container and squash it by hand but its alot harder. Second i would recommend not pouring your copper directly into the casting shape but rather through a channel so that falling copper doesn't hit your pattern sand. (all sand casting is done this way unless your using petrobond) The falling copper could weaken the sand or directly damage the pattern. copper is heavy! so it gathers abit of energy as it falls. Last, I would highly highly highly recommend you use the top of your mold! you made it for a reason! that can brace the clay and its possible you can skip the above two steps if you simply give the mold that extra support. hope this helps. I have cast copper, aluminium, gold and silver for years, I even did my undergrad research project on perfecting a high resolution mixture. if you get questions pm me.
You need to make the mold double sided with sand on the top and bottom and use at least 2 breather holes and one pour hole. The added sand on top will help insulate all the heat and keep it molten for longer. Additionally, the sand on top will prevent the center sections from lifting up and floating.
Why were you casting it in an open mould? why not just making a closed mould with a gate, runner and riser system, in that way you can keep the sand in place, control the pouring speed and it also has a better insulation to prevent premature solidification. The same way you cast the brass knuckles.
Grant, i think the water in the sand starts boiling and thats why it becomes unstable. The copper is also very heavy and thats why the sand starts floating on top.
Wilbert Coloma do you mean hydrophobic sand? That would be impossible because it would stay soft by not absorbing water. That way it could not form a solid mold.
renevank Yes. The damp sand method works for rough shapes only. But is extremely useful for reusing scrap lead in making expensive weights for surf fishing. Also molten lead is not too hot to have to use specialized insulation while casting.
Professional caster to the rescue! Don't melt the Styrofoam, and skim the slag off the top of the copper. It's a defective impurity. Also a neat trick to the sand is add sand epoxy.
KingSusan420 "professional caster" you should imediatly see that his sand is NOT for casting. Its just some play sand, he needs clay to make real shapes that hold up. Also he wouldnt need styrofoam and even if he would still use it, one template would be enough (you know you can take them out if you use proper casting sand)
If the sand is wet the moment the molten copper touches the sand it will evaporate the water. When liquid water changes to steam it expands in volume by about 22 times. That forms a steam barrier between your molten copper and the sand and since it takes a LOT of heat to raise water from room temperature to 100C and then to steam (about 4200 Joules per gram per degree Celsius of liquid water + whatever you need to change water to steam) your copper will conform to the mold of the steam barrier which will probably not be as uniform as the sand mold. That steam also pushes on the 3 little sand pillar in the middle. I think the reason they kept popping off are: 1) Steam forming at the bottom of the mold ( like the bottom face of your gear) is under a lot of pressure since the hole gear is on top of it. It presses against the bottom of your pillars deforming it creating a weakness on a already weak spot. 2) That spot is already under a lot stress from the hydrostatic pressure from the molten copper. (One of the reasons damns aren't perpendicular to the ground, but thicker at the bottom). 3) Sand is also less dense and buoyant force will push the pillar to the surface of the molten copper. Adding water might seem to make the less less "brittle" but i think it's actually detrimental during the actual molding. What I would suggest would be: 1) make the mold more shallow. Maybe make the gear half as thick? It should help the buoyancy problem since it increases proportionally to the volume of your pillar. 2) Less water. Aside from the steam problem it will allow your copper to cool more slowly, which i think was one of the things you wanted. 3) Pour slowly. I noticed the pillar that pops off is usually near where you pour. Copper is very heavy and dense. After is hits the bottom it will start dispersing throughout the bottom of your mold. It will put a lot of lateral force on whatever is in it's way. (Think standing in front of an avalanche, you are the pillar. as you continuously pour copper it's as if snow would keep coming down on you). Maybe a slow steady pour moving around the mold? Ideally you would want all sides of the pillar to have the same height of copper so all sides are being pushed by the copper with the same amount of force.
You're exactly right about the buoyant forces from the copper. It's much more dense than aluminum so the mold needs to be stronger. Besides the other tricks, I would have tried embedding some copper wire in the mold in the pillars to reinforce it; just poking a bunch of wires in at different angles would probably make it a lot stronger. I couldn't say whether or not it would be strong *enough* without trying it, though.
Just a thought from my high school metal shop days, but in the process of making bronze for a trinket I tested the capability of our school foundry with copper. I discovered that in casting I needed to add a fluxing agent in order to get a clean cast as gasses end up bubbling up through the molten copper. Another thought to avoid the steam issue might me to switch to oil dampened sand. I don't know the particular oil offhand, but again in my metal shop days we used black sand casting that utilized oil as the binding agent. I'm sure a google search might shed a little light on that option. You might also try using both halves of the sand casting to hold down the middle sections in the radioactive sign so that they don't float away. Anyways, thanks for all the great content!
I like how you show the fails and mistakes one can easily make while doing stuff like this. Science hobbies are all trial and error with an enormous learning curve lol. Great channel!
Great vid bud I might have some idea's as to why your having difficulties, I have done greensand copper casts before, I am pretty sure your center detail is popping out because of two reasons. 1: the additional moisture in your greensand allows for steam to be created with the metal being so hot its instant which will weaken your structure as the steam cannot escape through the metal so it pushes through the sand. Ideally greensand is about 6% moisture, and 2: your only using half of your mold, use both the cope and the drag and it will support your mold alot more just make some sprue holes and pour the metal into it the mold will insulate the copper and im sure you will get better results. Feel free to contact me if you wanna talk more about your greensand copper casting,
TGOTR yeah but what you were going to say isnt making any sense because if the temperature difference is higher it will cool even faster, and he cannot get it hotter. he held it in there for 20min, thats enough time to get the copper to tha max temperature - the oven isnt getting any hotter so the copper wont neither
you need two sides of the green sand and make a tube from the middle of the gear to pour the copper from. this allow the shape to stay in tact and the molten copper will not cool that fast.
Just wanted to write the same :D Ps: one tube must be one one edge of the gear and the other tube on the other edge so gasses could escape and the would stay intact becouse metal would shrink in the tubes( risers) and not in the gear.
Juse Lau is correct ... You should do this project with a 2 part mold just like how engines other metal components are made. The 2 part mold will yield a better casting!
Wrong kind of foam? House insulation is fire retardant. When you pour the copper it takes so much energy to vaporise the fire resistant foam it's pulling so much thermal energy from the copper it's thickening. You just need to use cheap polystyrene so that it can instantly vapourish when the copper flows into the mould! upvote so the king can see this!!
I have never thought about that. I have been screaming "REMOVE THE FOAM" for the last video.Untill i realized that that would be destroying the mold. That's why i told him to make clay molds.
The reason why the sand is breaking is not the melting point. The burning mold produces gas. The pressure from the escaping gases has no where else to go. The copper is more dense than the sand. So the Sand gives way. This goes for all who are trying to make molds with foam.
yes, he needs a better curing method for his green sand...I am guessing his clay content is kind of low as that sand did not look like the stuff I usually use. I make my molds pretty wet, then let them cure. Rarely do I leave the core of the mold in place either, nor do I open pour more than 30-45g of metal either; and for copper I don't use sand at all...plaster is way better for non-ferrous casting.
I think that another important reason (or more important then the escaping gases) is the Idrostatic force. I don't know the specific weight of sand but I'm sure that buoyancy force has a important role.
The problem you had was all because of density! At 7,898 g/cm3, molten copper is very dense. Whereas the density of wet sand is roughly 1.905 g/cm3. The three sand pieces kept falling apart because they wanted to float on top of the molten copper!! Hope this helps!
Alex Agaciak also, it did not show if he was using the mesh strainer? It really needs the fine packed sand to hold together better. Grant don't give up, but use finer grade sand first.
Copper is only $2.20/lbs, so unless you have about 30lbs in that gear it isn't $60 of copper. The reasons copper tubes cost that much is the work that goes into processing them. After working with copper I'm sure you are aware that it's not easy to create tubes. P.S. your foundry video was what got me into your channel, please keep doing foundry videos! Test alloys and stuff, I don't know, just do more!
Grant...grant...grant... The reason the sand kept on popping out was because you didn't pat it enough before you were casting... you need to pat the sand harder and every time you add a new layer. Watch press tubes video, he patted the sand constantly until it was almost a complete solid, the harder you pound the sand around the styrofoam, the more secure and tough your mold will hold while casting.
I have very little experience with casting, however the man that I helped always used a sealed cast for more dense materials. I doubt that is the proper name. but basically completely cover the gear with sand and have a pour spout going into the foam chamber. I could be wrong but I also believe it may help gold the hear in longer. allowing it to fill the mold better.
Basically you need to cover it up completely and have a foam "tube" going up which the copper can melt through, once the cast is done you just remove the tube with a saw and then file it down.
You should use a closed mould. This would mean that the radioactive shapes cannot float up and ruin the casting. Also, pouring the copper directly onto the sand could damage the mould. Using spruces instead should help with the problem. Hope this can help you succeed!!!
1. You need to use bentonite clay mixed with the sand to make it stick together. 2. You don't need to burn the foam out. 3. You really should use a cope and drag type mold with gating, your results will be much better with few failed castings.
Sand is fine if it is constrained by the edges of the mould, but for any internal structure points with no edge reinforcement, the buoyant force of the copper is going to cause the less dense sand to float. It's no surprise this didn't work when you think about the science behind the materials being used. A closed mould may work better as it would give the internal sand structures two points of constraint.
actually, temporary molds are fine, but they are not just sand... they are a combination of more stuff, and it usually gets black due to some of the elements... like, a special clay and some other stuff... I don't use temporary molds very often,,, but in homemade projects I make them researching what I am going to cast
CSGuitars I will bet "a dime to a donut" the difficulty is the low density of copper and the fact alloy he calls copper most likely contains nickle and other elements.
all that work making the green sand forms and you only use one half? the copper cooled too quick because you didnt use the top half of the form to insulate the cast. the sand broke away because you didnt use a spru, the liquid copper is heavy so when you pour it in it erodes the sand and can destroy the shape. using both the cope and drag will solve both issues
Notgnihtrow you would think he would have researched this, or at least looked at the thousands of copper casting vids on this platform. Drove me nuts watching the last 2 vids
Notgnihtrow I've watched other Channels cast copper and explain things that he could have used but watching through this it made me a little mad but either way he tried
Bob Dip you are right, the sand he uses looks like normal play sand but you need oil sand or what was mostly used is clay-sand it holds the shape better is much more solid and you actually can take out the template
This man was a legend, Hes such a family man and trying to be so kid friendly that he dosent curse and instead of saying "Holy S***" He said "Holy heck" This man was a true LEGEND
What you need to do is to sandwich the mold in a top and bottom layer and put two holes on the top layer so one is to pour the liquid in and the others to vent. And it should keep the liquid in the mold hot so the copper can form to the mold better!
Josh Galanda I have done copper green sand molds using the above method and can confirm. The issue isnt the temperature of the copper it is the density of sand versus copper...The sand is experiencing a boyant force...Correct this by burrying the mold in packed green sand on both ends and then tunneling to a part of the finished product. This will result in the mold having a rod shaped apendage which can easilly be sawed and then filed off.
that's exactly how i did it when i took foundry class except i casted bronze. also, i had to take the model out before pouring any molten metal in. the sand i used was red in color
Use casting sand then pull out the gear, then heat the mold before pouring. Top is going to be "domed" due to surface tension. Make a 2 part mold with vents to make a perfect cast.
Yep school metal work at age 13. A two part mold will hold the inner parts better. Make the first mold as you did, add an entry object such as a pipe, and then box it up for the top. Remove the entry object, pour down the hole.
Noah Saucier ...If he knows that, why does he not understand why it won't work? Jason A. is just giving facts not ridiculing him, so no need for the butt hurt.
two things. Green Sand isn't the right level of clay plus talcom powder may be of great use... also, you need the upper portion of your cast mold to retain both structure and heat. you should do a side by side of your greensand compared to the professional grade stuff. second, please build or buy a smelters crucible arm.
mix in some cement when sand is fresh.. You don't need too much. Sprinkle a bit of water over it so you have a DAMP mix and then let it dry, at least, over night. You can't duplicate how it is done ion factories so don't try. My idea has worked for me a lot when I was a bit younger (70 now) ..try an old-fashioned trick eh.
Hey Grant, try making the water slightly hotter, and then put it in the oven or something to heat up the mold a little bit. Then it would take less heat from the copper, so the copper could flow more easily. Also, try making a channel away from the main gear for the copper to flow down, then it might not push the sand over as easily.
The fact that. you showed us the failures is testament to your character. I say thank you. As a learning exercise some of the other guys use a releasing agent such as talcum powder to allowing easy release of the template. One guy also talked about using oil to bind the sand. He didn't. say what type of oil. This was an excellent learning resource, thank you.
The 2-part mold also allows for greater fine detail and edge detail, something Grant is always complaining about with his casts. He's also experienced enough that a 2-part should prove no issue for him.
Grand, its easy to fix it, it isnt the coppor you need to add a few more grams of clay to the mix from the sand than it will be something harder than it will work ( LIKE THAT HE SEES IT )
I saw someone doing casting with some alloy ( probably brass ) in red sand and it included a hole through brass was poured in as well as it was enclosed except the hole and at last the excess part of the metal was cut if excess metal was poured and the casting turned out to be perfect but I am not too sure it will work here since components are different but if wanna try be King of Random Awesomeness. - A Student who likes experiments
not sure why he didn't do that here, he has done it in previous castings with aluminum. It helps both problems, better support for the sand to hold its shape and better insulated so the metal doesn't cool as fast.
OK. where to start. You can totally do this - its easy with Bronze which is 1200C to pour. Copper is similar. If you're not going to cope and drag it (which will work better) then lessons learned are: - pour 1 - if you apply enough heat to melt the foam then you'll also dry out the sand - and dry sand is loose and crumbly. (The Bentonite component is acting as the glue). so don't do it in two passes. do it just once. - pour 3 - best chance of success but the islands failed while the supported sand (teeth) did not. (your sand was low on water and was visbly sandy. Do eth compress in your hand and split to see if its got the right water consistency). If you had a cope and drag (two part mold) then the islands would have been supported and stayed where they were. (supported top and bottom you see). So: 1. if you're going to just open pour then you need to remove the foam. It serves no purpose in your poiur and only gets in the way. It should come out easy (or paint it gloss so you can remove it and sand won't stick. So doesn't have to be foam). 2. Then to support the islands you'll need to put a dowel or similar in the middle of each island when tamping so they have support and won't move. 3. then do what you did in ppour 3. BUT better would be: 1. make a cope and drag, Tamp the foam (painted gloss) piece into the drag, 2. flip it over and dust the surface with talc, put the cope on and tamp that with a rod beside the foam to eventually be removed and for the copper to go in. 3. remove the rod, separate the cope and drag, scoop out the metal entry point so incoing metal wil get into the foam section, 4. remove the foam section (hope it was painted gloss so it comes out nice and easy..) 5. reassemble and clamp the two halves together - you already know the copper will float the top if it gets the chance. 6. pour (like your pour 3) within 20 mins or the sand will dry out - this depends obviously on local heat conditions. Success !! One of the othe rmain reasons to use a cope and drag - is the head - that will hold extra metal above the object and provide pressure, this will force the metal into the sharp corners which it might otherwise avoid as it will prefer rounded corners due to its liquid state surface tension. So a head will provide pressure to over come this. (same for Alu). You'll get a much better surface. in fact - if you did paint the foam and removed it, then you will get a shiny surface even in a sand mold.
You should try using an oil-based sand. A little more expensive, but stays in place better. You can also try compacting your green sand more by using more force. Another option is using a different metal than copper with a lower melting point. You should also try adding borax to the copper, which may help, but probably not. Hope the advice helps; keep on trying!
Yes; it would absolutely burn, but not very quickly. The only parts that would burn are the areas exposed to the outside air, which can easily be scraped off or put out. I mean, Grant uses wood and is basically pouring metal around 1,600°F onto it. Have you noticed the carbon marks on it?
I'm classified as a professional foundryman, and even though I have a long list of critiques, I still love this guy! We are all missing the king of random!
why don"t you cover the mold with the top part and make a cavity for copper to go in? this will prevent the sand pieces from popping, and leave only a small part of the mold exposed to air, hence giving copper more time to cool down... That's what I think. btw the last gear is by far your best one :)
Yup. Make a sandwich mold, and cover with a steel plate of some sort. As +TheNorskViking mentioned, the sand is floating on the molten copper. Putting a capping plate over the works, and maybe adding some additional weight would help.
Abderraouf Mehdi Bouhali what he needs to do is mold it in something other than sand, the metal heats up the sand so much that it would just push it around.
Hey Grant quick suggestion instead of doing little projects like this you should do a "build" were the daily projects all come together to make a super cool gadget or something. Well just an idea thanks. :)
We see couple minute videos but in reality this takes hours and hours for Grant. I'm so glad he does this for us. As for a casting idea, I think maybe you should try something like a metal lining for the sand cast so that the lining holds the sand in place. Thanks for reading.
I believe that since the copper has such a high melting point, anything other than steel, which he can't cast due to high melting point, would fuse to the copper mold, and ruin the pure copper cast.
I think the issue comes from the fact that molten copper is around 3.4x denser than molten aluminum. I think the bouency force was enough to separate the bond in the sand. the solution could be placing metal inside the radioactive symbols before packing the sand or by adding somthing inside the mold that would strengthen the bond in the sand. something like the plastic Christmas tree fasteners. Or anything long and with well defined edges.
For higher heat metals that are not Ferros metals, it's often best to use a denser molding material. I think it requires a higher silicon clay count for sand molding, or as someone said before using an oil base. Another thought would be to bake the clay sand mold to harden it so that it stays rigid in the casting.
just a thought, i used to work in the art department of a foundry that produced brass belt buckles, the sand they used was mixed with regular, new motor oil. They were able to achieve fairly fine detail. Their process was very similar to what you are doing. they had hydraulic tampers instead of wood blocks. Each casting was pressed from a reusable Zinc master. They reused their sand after sieving it for chunks.They always faced with new sand. Since was not in the foundry section, i can only offer what i observed. keep up the great videos, i enjoy they immensely.
Ryan B. - right on! Also I'm not sure about copper but with aluminum, sugar (or maple syrup etc.) will give it strength also. It does scorch after each use though. I think the box in the video is too small for such a large pour. I agree it might work better with the top on it, copper should be poured off the finished part because of its weight.
Try sprinkling baby powder on top of styrofoam gear in place with the sand mold, then take a make-up brush, and lightly coat the surface, then remove the styrofoam gear from the sand mold, then pour the molten copper... (Your Welcome)
That makes no sense, so you put baby powder on the Styrofoam that's in the mold, u coat the surface of said gear then you remove the gear? That would do nothing to the sand, only the Styrofoam. Ur basically just removing the gear with the baby powder, leaving just the untouched sand.
Copper is heavy, man. It will shift any loose parts of the mold aside like they're nothing. You've seen it with the last casting - the pressure of the copper flowing in from all sides simply broke the loose sections apart and pushed them to the top. You'd need something like clay at the very least.
It's the foam you're using, it melts slow but also leaves parts of itself behind which can make imperfections in the mold. Also the copper doesn't have time to flow all the way in and completely fill the areas where the foam is making imperfections as you know.
try using sodium silicate casting, it's far easier and will not fall apart on you... you should also use both the cope and drag because the foam has nowhere to go when u pour it in because it melts top to bottom but if you use the other half it will push the foam and gasses out in one constant direction leaving behind clean perfect metal
also check out sv seeker, he has many aluminum, bronze, brass, lead etc. casting videos in sodium silicate... sodium silicate is cheap and can be bought on amazon
When we thermite weld railroad tracks we use a foundry clay. It has sand already in the clay, but the clay needs to be heated slightly prior to pouring your slag/metal. You don’t want your clay to appear slimy because any additional moisture may explode because of temperature difference.
MagicSteve46 The problem with the torch is that if he's not careful it could ruin the mold. Even heating the mold up to 450 in the oven would solve a lot of his problems
Btw, you screwed yourself by adding moisture. Adding moisture just means that the water will boil rapidly...hence why it basically blew apart. Use extremely dry molding sand along with a closed mold. I guarantee you will get the part you are looking for.
Moisture is not the only problem. Silicate sand is waaaay less dense than solid copper. We saw those chunks of sand floating on the surface - which suggests they were basically pushed out by pure buoyancy force in accordance with Archimedes' law.
yeah, I actually start with wet green sand...but I also let that dry out then. The water and compacting tends to help the clay in the sand to bind better. Water will cause pitting/bubbles. Closed mold is a must. Just not sure why he didn't just use a vacated plaster mold though either...non-ferrous cast can be done with plaster super easy...and if he was willing to split the mold then realign it, he could have kept to a single pattern and made dozens of molds to try and re-try the process a few times.
JB Kaufman yup, and copper pipe is more expensive than copper wire, which is still nowhere near the value of copper. He needs to buy/find scrap copper or buy a few ingots from ebay
true, maybe buy it from a recycling plant or something like that... maybe ripping copper from an old house or something... there's cheaper copper out there, but you got to take the time to chase it out
Sand will have buoyancy compared to the copper -- so it'll float, because nothing is holding it down. You'll need some kind of mold that is either denser than molten copper, or solid so that the center pieces are attached to the base and can't float.
Disclaimer: I posted this comment on the last video too. Can your furnace get hot enough to melt rock? Then you would have your own lava for an even greater number of possible experiments.
You're making green sand molds? For that you need some type of binder like clay (5-7%) , additive like graphite (3-5%) and water (2-4%), i guess that should help. Just things i learned from university ..
love you Grant Thompson You always make my day! I'm all into engineering, metalworking, and woodworking! You pretty much do all those things! Along with a little hint of experimenting! I wish all the luck to you!
What do you guys mean by dirty copper? dust, dirt and sand is easily cleaned off, you grab a broken down electric motor or transformer and you could get decent copper there from the coils alone and other bonuses like aluminium and steel which is cheaper than buying brand new copper tubes pound for pound.
He’s not dead, He is alive in all of our hearts, and you can never truly die if you have videos of you, or you are in people’s memories. And don’t say rest in piece, for him say, experiment with happiness and fun.
It is too bad he uses styrofoam for casting, the air pockets inside ruin the cast when heated cause of the air trapped inside the casting material expands when heated, deforming the shape of the cast. Use wax man....or look into how they cast an enige block.
Copper cools down really fast because it has a low specific heat capacity which means it looses or gains energy more quickly than other matter. For example water has a SHC of 4.18 joules/c while copper has 0.385.
Justin Grafstein I think I see his point, although I have no idea how accurate his numbers are. Not sure why he's comparing copper to water instead of aluminum, lead, etc., and even if heat capacity is an issue, latent heat and melting point would be more relevant since we're dealing with a phase change. I think there's some relevance to his comment though. He's probably assuming since copper is a great conductor, maybe it loses heat faster. I think that's where he was going with that, or in terms of specific heat, it takes less energy loss to cool copper per degree. It's a fair theory I think, unless I'm missing something.
You !NEED! to use the top part and create a Funnel aswell as a reservoir otherwise the copper will cool to quickly. And make the sand harder! Add a bit more water ad clay then everything will work.
Alexxd_12 more water is a no go it will cause stea m to rise through the sand pushing the grains farther apart therefore making the mold less durable and clay will just crack under the heat so that won't work either.
I have 0 experience with metal casting as a whole but I remembered him saying something about the moisture in the sand being too low being a problem? Err...maybe the crucible evaporated the moisture in the green sand, causing the third failure where the sand got dislodged?
Grant was thinking in terms of sand castles where wet sand is more solid than dry. But the moisture will evaporate on contact with the molten metal and cause lot's of bubbles. Otaku is saying add more clay and bake it so it becomes more like pottery. solid, dry
Don't take this the wrong way, but TKoR is FAR from being on the of the best channels on TH-cam. There is a very fine line between "popular" and "quality".
I know a TH-cam that does green sand casting called tito4re. my guess is not having the other side on is making those middle chunks float on the copper.
when i did copper casting, the inside pieces of sand that kept popping out happened to me aswell, i fixed it by shoving metal wires in through them as the Styrofoam is in it, and then fixing any imperfections the wires caused by just packing it down a little more
in high school i used put the Styrofoam in the center of the sand with holes that lead to it in the top. A few holes to pour into to distribute evenly and while pouring in each hole one by one the other two or three holes help with venting. Finally when it cools you cut off the extra and file/grind it down.
it was a metals class they just taught us how to build with metal like basic welding, sand blasting, castings and soldering. the class also taught us how to use tools like grinders and lathes. the castings were made with whatever we had at the time so mostly aluminum but we also used copper and pretty much everything else except steel.
Aron Loof idk about anywhere else but in my state it was rare to have a metals class lol. i moved a lot in high school so i ended up going to six different schools and only one of them had the metals class. the others just had woodworking which not all of them even had that.
Philip Crotty Yeah, i live in The Netherlands though, but here you get woodworking at high school and if you want to work with metal you have to get a degree for it.
GRANT!!! from the first pour on the first video i thought you would run into issues because you are not using a 2 tier mould, you need to make a second block of sand with a hole through it and place it on to of the bottom mould and then pour, this will solve both of your issues by holding the sand in place and holding in the heat longer. Please revisit
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Grant Thompson - "The King of Random" second today
Hi I love all of your vid:).
Grant Thompson - "The King of Random" second
I ordered your fidget.
Grant Thompson - "The King of Random" hi
Copper dissolves gasses when hot and releases them when cooling thus it is much easier to cast if you add something to disrupt that like a hand full of zinc pennies or a roll of lead free solder.
He said that he's already done bronze, and wanted to try pure copper. Also nice to see you here Cody.
Well in that case he is going to need some flux and better casting medium.
Not a bad idea though
woah, Cody! agreed. REALLY nice to see you here.
Wouldn't borax help as well?
I just remembered how much I loved this guy
He's dead
@@_Ainz Not in my world
U don't have a world
The Legens same
xXskeletronXx I have a world
In minecraft lol
I worked in a foundry for many years. We have chemicals to our sand so it sets better and holds it's shape better. One other thing is we never pour directly into the piece we are making. We have runners and vents which allow the metal to flow and fill. I hope this helps.
Was thinking the same.. would be so easy and perfect with vents
Waterglass to the sand, hardened with CO2.
to bad he can't see this😭😭😭😭
@@redpearyear wait he has dead?? Ive seen some comments bout that
@@gyrozeppeli8932 yes sadly :,( R.I.P
Failing never stopped you. Forever Rest In Peace the true king of random
GavDawg how did he die
@@riccardomancini784 paramotor
@@riccardomancini784 obama sniped him in the pingus
Paragliding
He had better video ideas than nate and cali
Hi Grant, I can help with the issues your having. your close but there are a few simple things that need to be addressed.
Your green sand needs to be "milled" this is the process of completely covering your sand with the clay. its a crappy, long and labor intensive process but its the only way to make viable "true" green sand. effectively you need to mix the sand aloooot, one of the best ways is to place it on a tarp and walk on it for ages aka more than 10 mins. you could also put it in a large plastic container and squash it by hand but its alot harder.
Second i would recommend not pouring your copper directly into the casting shape but rather through a channel so that falling copper doesn't hit your pattern sand. (all sand casting is done this way unless your using petrobond) The falling copper could weaken the sand or directly damage the pattern. copper is heavy! so it gathers abit of energy as it falls.
Last, I would highly highly highly recommend you use the top of your mold! you made it for a reason! that can brace the clay and its possible you can skip the above two steps if you simply give the mold that extra support.
hope this helps. I have cast copper, aluminium, gold and silver for years, I even did my undergrad research project on perfecting a high resolution mixture. if you get questions pm me.
Dam bro, write a book
Erectopotomus this practically is a book… a real long book
Just a dude wanting to help, is that so wrong?
Really nice of you to help !! I was 263 like !!
I was about to offer the advice with the channel! Beat me to the punch by less than an hour! DANGIT!
You need to make the mold double sided with sand on the top and bottom and use at least 2 breather holes and one pour hole. The added sand on top will help insulate all the heat and keep it molten for longer. Additionally, the sand on top will prevent the center sections from lifting up and floating.
Matthew Utt ii
Thinker 44 Duh huh i
you're very right Matthew
Also the riser where you pour the molten metal in will act as a reservoir to replenish through casting as it contracts.
yes! That is the main reason he is having so many problems.
Why were you casting it in an open mould? why not just making a closed mould with a gate, runner and riser system, in that way you can keep the sand in place, control the pouring speed and it also has a better insulation to prevent premature solidification. The same way you cast the brass knuckles.
You are foundry man. Haha
Yifan yifan I agree...an enclosed mold might help!
Agreed. And it will also keep the heat in and the material won't solidify causing a cold joint where the too faced meet
Also it would keep "pressure" on the copper and keep it in place
Yifan yifan... Exactly what I was thinking. 👍👍
I watch all of Grant's videos again
But its not the same
Story Time that hit me..
Yeah 😭😭😭😔😔
Rip
😢🥺💔
Grant, i think the water in the sand starts boiling and thats why it becomes unstable. The copper is also very heavy and thats why the sand starts floating on top.
late but I think the copper is so hot that the mold drys as it is being cast
renevank im just wondering what would happen if he used kinetic sand? Is there any difference?
Wilbert Coloma do you mean hydrophobic sand? That would be impossible because it would stay soft by not absorbing water. That way it could not form a solid mold.
If you did it properly and used epoxy sand then everything would be okay.
renevank
Yes. The damp sand method works for rough shapes only. But is extremely
useful for reusing scrap lead in making expensive weights for surf fishing. Also molten lead is not too hot to have to use specialized insulation while casting.
Professional caster to the rescue!
Don't melt the Styrofoam, and skim the slag off the top of the copper. It's a defective impurity. Also a neat trick to the sand is add sand epoxy.
Yeah I was so confused as to why he kept melting the Styrofoam first!
KingSusan420 also the sand was to wet and here's why the water evaporated so fast the sand whent upward
KingSusan420 I'm no caster but I've seen others remove their mould using screws to leave just a cavity in the sand, would that help?
KingSusan420 "professional caster" you should imediatly see that his sand is NOT for casting. Its just some play sand, he needs clay to make real shapes that hold up. Also he wouldnt need styrofoam and even if he would still use it, one template would be enough (you know you can take them out if you use proper casting sand)
Charles Tull The sand is NOT for casting.
If the sand is wet the moment the molten copper touches the sand it will evaporate the water. When liquid water changes to steam it expands in volume by about 22 times. That forms a steam barrier between your molten copper and the sand and since it takes a LOT of heat to raise water from room temperature to 100C and then to steam (about 4200 Joules per gram per degree Celsius of liquid water + whatever you need to change water to steam) your copper will conform to the mold of the steam barrier which will probably not be as uniform as the sand mold. That steam also pushes on the 3 little sand pillar in the middle.
I think the reason they kept popping off are:
1) Steam forming at the bottom of the mold ( like the bottom face of your gear) is under a lot of pressure since the hole gear is on top of it. It presses against the bottom of your pillars deforming it creating a weakness on a already weak spot.
2) That spot is already under a lot stress from the hydrostatic pressure from the molten copper. (One of the reasons damns aren't perpendicular to the ground, but thicker at the bottom).
3) Sand is also less dense and buoyant force will push the pillar to the surface of the molten copper.
Adding water might seem to make the less less "brittle" but i think it's actually detrimental during the actual molding.
What I would suggest would be:
1) make the mold more shallow. Maybe make the gear half as thick? It should help the buoyancy problem since it increases proportionally to the volume of your pillar.
2) Less water. Aside from the steam problem it will allow your copper to cool more slowly, which i think was one of the things you wanted.
3) Pour slowly. I noticed the pillar that pops off is usually near where you pour. Copper is very heavy and dense. After is hits the bottom it will start dispersing throughout the bottom of your mold. It will put a lot of lateral force on whatever is in it's way. (Think standing in front of an avalanche, you are the pillar. as you continuously pour copper it's as if snow would keep coming down on you). Maybe a slow steady pour moving around the mold? Ideally you would want all sides of the pillar to have the same height of copper so all sides are being pushed by the copper with the same amount of force.
Alex Kim nerd
smart nerd
You're exactly right about the buoyant forces from the copper. It's much more dense than aluminum so the mold needs to be stronger.
Besides the other tricks, I would have tried embedding some copper wire in the mold in the pillars to reinforce it; just poking a bunch of wires in at different angles would probably make it a lot stronger. I couldn't say whether or not it would be strong *enough* without trying it, though.
Stone Yeti1234 dont be mad cause you're not smart bro😂😂
Rip man, watching every vid and commenting RIP
Rip
Rip
Rest in peace
Press F to respect.... Rest in peace.
F
Just a thought from my high school metal shop days, but in the process of making bronze for a trinket I tested the capability of our school foundry with copper. I discovered that in casting I needed to add a fluxing agent in order to get a clean cast as gasses end up bubbling up through the molten copper. Another thought to avoid the steam issue might me to switch to oil dampened sand. I don't know the particular oil offhand, but again in my metal shop days we used black sand casting that utilized oil as the binding agent. I'm sure a google search might shed a little light on that option. You might also try using both halves of the sand casting to hold down the middle sections in the radioactive sign so that they don't float away. Anyways, thanks for all the great content!
linseed oil.
You could clearly see vaporised water (steam) from the green sand bubbling up through the molten copper.
I like how you show the fails and mistakes one can easily make while doing stuff like this. Science hobbies are all trial and error with an enormous learning curve lol. Great channel!
Great vid bud I might have some idea's as to why your having difficulties, I have done greensand copper casts before, I am pretty sure your center detail is popping out because of two reasons. 1: the additional moisture in your greensand allows for steam to be created with the metal being so hot its instant which will weaken your structure as the steam cannot escape through the metal so it pushes through the sand. Ideally greensand is about 6% moisture, and 2: your only using half of your mold, use both the cope and the drag and it will support your mold alot more just make some sprue holes and pour the metal into it the mold will insulate the copper and im sure you will get better results. Feel free to contact me if you wanna talk more about your greensand copper casting,
Jiyuu-jin lets hope hee sees this comment !!! Grant Notice HIM HI HAS A IDEA!!!!
I was going to say he isn't getting it hot enough. Sure it's molten but it's cooling too fast and the wet sand is making the situation worse.
He should also use oil instead of water and he should use very fine sand
Jiyuu-jin
mills help
TGOTR yeah but what you were going to say isnt making any sense because if the temperature difference is higher it will cool even faster, and he cannot get it hotter. he held it in there for 20min, thats enough time to get the copper to tha max temperature - the oven isnt getting any hotter so the copper wont neither
RIP. Hopefully wherever you are you are at peace 🙏
Lets Nominate him this year for a Streamy!
hes dead?
What happend?
Trent Wickham unforchintly, we now don’t know what’s he doing now.
Jared Reed Yea! Let’s nonnanate Nate!
you need two sides of the green sand and make a tube from the middle of the gear to pour the copper from. this allow the shape to stay in tact and the molten copper will not cool that fast.
and keep the styrofoam in there. it helps to maintain the shape.
Jude Lau +
Jude Lau was going to say the same
Just wanted to write the same :D
Ps: one tube must be one one edge of the gear and the other tube on the other edge so gasses could escape and the would stay intact becouse metal would shrink in the tubes( risers) and not in the gear.
Juse Lau is correct ... You should do this project with a 2 part mold just like how engines other metal components are made. The 2 part mold will yield a better casting!
Wrong kind of foam? House insulation is fire retardant. When you pour the copper it takes so much energy to vaporise the fire resistant foam it's pulling so much thermal energy from the copper it's thickening. You just need to use cheap polystyrene so that it can instantly vapourish when the copper flows into the mould! upvote so the king can see this!!
DJust787 you're right
DJust787 😊
I have never thought about that. I have been screaming "REMOVE THE FOAM" for the last video.Untill i realized that that would be destroying the mold. That's why i told him to make clay molds.
DJust787 Exactly what I was thinking
I still think he could preheat the mould in the oven at like 200 f.
The reason why the sand is breaking is not the melting point. The burning mold produces gas. The pressure from the escaping gases has no where else to go. The copper is more dense than the sand. So the Sand gives way. This goes for all who are trying to make molds with foam.
yes, he needs a better curing method for his green sand...I am guessing his clay content is kind of low as that sand did not look like the stuff I usually use. I make my molds pretty wet, then let them cure. Rarely do I leave the core of the mold in place either, nor do I open pour more than 30-45g of metal either; and for copper I don't use sand at all...plaster is way better for non-ferrous casting.
and adding water to the sand makes even more gas with nowhere to go...
I think that another important reason (or more important then the escaping gases) is the Idrostatic force. I don't know the specific weight of sand but I'm sure that buoyancy force has a important role.
it works fine for brass. i use sand casting for all my gun mounts.
smart cookie , btw cookies cant besmart they have no brain , jk
My favorite youtuber. I wish I had the opportunity to tell him how much I learned from him. Rest in peace my friend and thank you.
The problem you had was all because of density! At 7,898 g/cm3, molten copper is very dense. Whereas the density of wet sand is roughly 1.905 g/cm3. The three sand pieces kept falling apart because they wanted to float on top of the molten copper!! Hope this helps!
Alex Agaciak also, it did not show if he was using the mesh strainer? It really needs the fine packed sand to hold together better. Grant don't give up, but use finer grade sand first.
all he has to do is put a weight on top of the 3 sans pieces before he pours. may want to reinforce the sides of the 3 pieces as well
I came to add this, found it at the top.
I vote for doing this, too.
Put a lid on it nerd!
Copper is only $2.20/lbs, so unless you have about 30lbs in that gear it isn't $60 of copper. The reasons copper tubes cost that much is the work that goes into processing them. After working with copper I'm sure you are aware that it's not easy to create tubes.
P.S. your foundry video was what got me into your channel, please keep doing foundry videos! Test alloys and stuff, I don't know, just do more!
I'm sure he ment the retail price to begin with...
Andrew Evenson Genius😒
Different prices in different locations. Places that don't have quick/easy access to copper will have higher prices due to transport costs.
pennies are copper and they are worth one cent, kinda just shot a hole in the expensive argument
No. Just no. They are copper coated.
Grant...grant...grant...
The reason the sand kept on popping out was because you didn't pat it enough before you were casting... you need to pat the sand harder and every time you add a new layer. Watch press tubes video, he patted the sand constantly until it was almost a complete solid, the harder you pound the sand around the styrofoam, the more secure and tough your mold will hold while casting.
Also i think it would be better to put the 2. sandbox on top so that it also holds in the sand
He should add a better binding agent. Something like powder made of cat litter sand grinned with coffee grinder.
TrendCrave I thought so too
i also dont think his sand mixture is right
Trend craving its you yay
Look, I'm trying, okay? But sometimes, I just get overwhelmed. I'll try to be better from now on, I promise.
hahahahaha!!!
It's okay, we still love you. Want a hug?
get out here of here and go get your brother, Bronze. We never liked you anyways copper. You are just a sad and lumpy metal
@Brooke Pollitt lol
This would not work due to the fake that the clay would over heat and crack
I think you should use a two piece mold to make the copper more workable and avoid the sand chunks from breaking👍
I have very little experience with casting, however the man that I helped always used a sealed cast for more dense materials. I doubt that is the proper name. but basically completely cover the gear with sand and have a pour spout going into the foam chamber. I could be wrong but I also believe it may help gold the hear in longer. allowing it to fill the mold better.
Basically you need to cover it up completely and have a foam "tube" going up which the copper can melt through, once the cast is done you just remove the tube with a saw and then file it down.
You should use a closed mould. This would mean that the radioactive shapes cannot float up and ruin the casting. Also, pouring the copper directly onto the sand could damage the mould. Using spruces instead should help with the problem. Hope this can help you succeed!!!
Ash Cain it's mold not mould.
HOWYOUBEEN depends on where you live like with colour or favourite
HOWYOUBEEN grammar nazi
GamingRising Exactly
Nope, depends on if you are using incorrect english or proper english.
Incorrect being American, proper being British.
So he is right.
1. You need to use bentonite clay mixed with the sand to make it stick together.
2. You don't need to burn the foam out.
3. You really should use a cope and drag type mold with gating, your results will be much better with few failed castings.
Sand is fine if it is constrained by the edges of the mould, but for any internal structure points with no edge reinforcement, the buoyant force of the copper is going to cause the less dense sand to float.
It's no surprise this didn't work when you think about the science behind the materials being used.
A closed mould may work better as it would give the internal sand structures two points of constraint.
actually, temporary molds are fine, but they are not just sand... they are a combination of more stuff, and it usually gets black due to some of the elements... like, a special clay and some other stuff... I don't use temporary molds very often,,, but in homemade projects I make them researching what I am going to cast
CSGuitars, I was just about to comment that
Guys, it's about views, not about melting copper.
Oil based sand works really well for molds like this I've watched PressTube for a while and that's what he uses to make molds like this
CSGuitars I will bet "a dime to a donut" the difficulty is the low density of copper and the fact alloy he calls copper most likely contains nickle and other elements.
all that work making the green sand forms and you only use one half? the copper cooled too quick because you didnt use the top half of the form to insulate the cast. the sand broke away because you didnt use a spru, the liquid copper is heavy so when you pour it in it erodes the sand and can destroy the shape. using both the cope and drag will solve both issues
Notgnihtrow I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows what he's doing wrong!
this
He needs to see this.
Notgnihtrow you would think he would have researched this, or at least looked at the thousands of copper casting vids on this platform. Drove me nuts watching the last 2 vids
Notgnihtrow I've watched other Channels cast copper and explain things that he could have used but watching through this it made me a little mad but either way he tried
Green sand is not solid enough you need oil sands, and an upper box with spru and riser
Bob Dip exactly what i said, finally someone understands 🤣
Green sand is plenty solid, but an upper box and a riser or two will definitely help. And maybe a flux, too, like borax.
It looked like he wasnt packing the pieces that popped out enough... he should be packing it down layer by layer
Bob Dip you are right, the sand he uses looks like normal play sand but you need oil sand or what was mostly used is clay-sand it holds the shape better is much more solid and you actually can take out the template
Bob Dip it's just that he didn't pack it right, plus if he used styrofoam it would burn off entirely as well as burn quicker
This man was a legend, Hes such a family man and trying to be so kid friendly that he dosent curse and instead of saying "Holy S***" He said "Holy heck" This man was a true LEGEND
That's what I like, TH-camrs nowadays are a bunch of potty mouths
@@AhnafAbdullah "potty mouths"
What you need to do is to sandwich the mold in a top and bottom layer and put two holes on the top layer so one is to pour the liquid in and the others to vent. And it should keep the liquid in the mold hot so the copper can form to the mold better!
Josh Galanda what he said.
Josh Galanda I have done copper green sand molds using the above method and can confirm. The issue isnt the temperature of the copper it is the density of sand versus copper...The sand is experiencing a boyant force...Correct this by burrying the mold in packed green sand on both ends and then tunneling to a part of the finished product. This will result in the mold having a rod shaped apendage which can easilly be sawed and then filed off.
reece Jones but the thing is the copper wouldn't be easy to sand down and it is inefficient.
Josh Galanda risers & gates!
that's exactly how i did it when i took foundry class except i casted bronze. also, i had to take the model out before pouring any molten metal in. the sand i used was red in color
Use casting sand then pull out the gear, then heat the mold before pouring. Top is going to be "domed" due to surface tension. Make a 2 part mold with vents to make a perfect cast.
I was gonna mention he should try to make a fully enclosed mold with vents and a center post to pour into.
Ur so smart
Yep school metal work at age 13. A two part mold will hold the inner parts better. Make the first mold as you did, add an entry object such as a pipe, and then box it up for the top. Remove the entry object, pour down the hole.
Yep. That is how they do it at Urick Foundry in Erie PA. They mold stuff for Rigid Tools.
Hi
I've tried what u need to do is burry the gear and make a funnel in the sand leading to the gear under the sand
yea. gating is important, I assume that's what you mean Blake. open face molds have never impressed me in performance.
Blake Deering that's what I was thinking
Blake Deering it dose not work well use oil based sand
up
this is water based.....
Its the sand.. Has nothing to do with the copper.
Noah Saucier ...If he knows that, why does he not understand why it won't work? Jason A. is just giving facts not ridiculing him, so no need for the butt hurt.
Bradley Bellwether lmao nobody was butthurt. You're the one jumping to conclusions.
@@bradleybellwether3063 surely sounds like you're the butt hurt one here bud
The green sand clearly didn't have enough clay in it.😞
Noah Saucier the sand is like glass so it moves easily with copper
two things. Green Sand isn't the right level of clay plus talcom powder may be of great use... also, you need the upper portion of your cast mold to retain both structure and heat. you should do a side by side of your greensand compared to the professional grade stuff. second, please build or buy a smelters crucible arm.
He does for the smaller smelter, that is why he is using the Tongs for now.
mix in some cement when sand is fresh.. You don't need too much. Sprinkle a bit of water over it so you have a DAMP mix and then let it dry, at least, over night. You can't duplicate how it is done ion factories so don't try. My idea has worked for me a lot when I was a bit younger (70 now) ..try an old-fashioned trick eh.
Im thinking the same thing
Sometimes, if not most, you older heads have most the common sense and better ideas.
I was going to suggest the same thing. Instead of sand, make the mold from cement.
Hey Grant, try making the water slightly hotter, and then put it in the oven or something to heat up the mold a little bit. Then it would take less heat from the copper, so the copper could flow more easily. Also, try making a channel away from the main gear for the copper to flow down, then it might not push the sand over as easily.
Ytrbpt Hsbom his sand is NOT for casting, a channel would just break his mold, he needs to get proper sand or rather clay,
The fact that. you showed us the failures is testament to your character. I say thank you. As a learning exercise some of the other guys use a releasing agent such as talcum powder to allowing easy release of the template. One guy also talked about using oil to bind the sand. He didn't. say what type of oil. This was an excellent learning resource, thank you.
Try making the greensand with fireclay instead of normal clay it's what worked for me.
or a 2 part mold would work much better
It is unnecessary to do that if you use fireclay though. and a 2 part mold can sometimes make it more difficult.
or a cement mixture which would allow for multiple casting of the same mold
The 2-part mold also allows for greater fine detail and edge detail, something Grant is always complaining about with his casts. He's also experienced enough that a 2-part should prove no issue for him.
hes using one half of a 2 part mould
Grand, its easy to fix it, it isnt the coppor you need to add a few more grams of clay to the mix from the sand than it will be something harder than it will work ( LIKE THAT HE SEES IT )
Drayzz his name is grant
Drayzz u spelled copper wrong. U spell copper like that not like copper.
either add more clay or poke metal skewers through each of the bits of sand that were falling off so it keeps in place. Like to let Grant know
Drayzz I'm
"LIKE THAT HE SEES IT" Are you patting yourself on the back for making a TH-cam comment ? Even if that helps, you're pretentious...
I saw someone doing casting with some alloy ( probably brass ) in red sand and it included a hole through brass was poured in as well as it was enclosed except the hole and at last the excess part of the metal was cut if excess metal was poured and the casting turned out to be perfect but I am not too sure it will work here since components are different but if wanna try be King of Random Awesomeness.
- A Student who likes experiments
not sure why he didn't do that here, he has done it in previous castings with aluminum. It helps both problems, better support for the sand to hold its shape and better insulated so the metal doesn't cool as fast.
this, by leaving the mold open the sand can pop out
when the mold is closed it cannot pop out
simple casting magic
Tsubasa Ottori i know who the person. PressTube
@CharmanderFan20 CharFan20 I actually saw it before my eyes. It was done by a few villagers when i went for a vacation.
I wish I possessed your ability to maintain such composure and positivity during what I can tell is so stressful and aggravating
OK. where to start. You can totally do this - its easy with Bronze which is 1200C to pour. Copper is similar.
If you're not going to cope and drag it (which will work better) then lessons learned are:
- pour 1 - if you apply enough heat to melt the foam then you'll also dry out the sand - and dry sand is loose and crumbly. (The Bentonite component is acting as the glue). so don't do it in two passes. do it just once.
- pour 3 - best chance of success but the islands failed while the supported sand (teeth) did not. (your sand was low on water and was visbly sandy. Do eth compress in your hand and split to see if its got the right water consistency).
If you had a cope and drag (two part mold) then the islands would have been supported and stayed where they were. (supported top and bottom you see).
So:
1. if you're going to just open pour then you need to remove the foam. It serves no purpose in your poiur and only gets in the way. It should come out easy (or paint it gloss so you can remove it and sand won't stick. So doesn't have to be foam).
2. Then to support the islands you'll need to put a dowel or similar in the middle of each island when tamping so they have support and won't move.
3. then do what you did in ppour 3.
BUT better would be:
1. make a cope and drag, Tamp the foam (painted gloss) piece into the drag,
2. flip it over and dust the surface with talc, put the cope on and tamp that with a rod beside the foam to eventually be removed and for the copper to go in.
3. remove the rod, separate the cope and drag, scoop out the metal entry point so incoing metal wil get into the foam section,
4. remove the foam section (hope it was painted gloss so it comes out nice and easy..)
5. reassemble and clamp the two halves together - you already know the copper will float the top if it gets the chance.
6. pour (like your pour 3) within 20 mins or the sand will dry out - this depends obviously on local heat conditions.
Success !!
One of the othe rmain reasons to use a cope and drag - is the head - that will hold extra metal above the object and provide pressure, this will force the metal into the sharp corners which it might otherwise avoid as it will prefer rounded corners due to its liquid state surface tension. So a head will provide pressure to over come this. (same for Alu). You'll get a much better surface. in fact - if you did paint the foam and removed it, then you will get a shiny surface even in a sand mold.
could the problem actually be the styrofoam shrinking as it melts constricting on the pillars of sand in the center ruining them
You should try using an oil-based sand. A little more expensive, but stays in place better. You can also try compacting your green sand more by using more force. Another option is using a different metal than copper with a lower melting point. You should also try adding borax to the copper, which may help, but probably not. Hope the advice helps; keep on trying!
wouldnt the oil burn?
Yes; it would absolutely burn, but not very quickly. The only parts that would burn are the areas exposed to the outside air, which can easily be scraped off or put out. I mean, Grant uses wood and is basically pouring metal around 1,600°F onto it. Have you noticed the carbon marks on it?
You do have a point
I'm classified as a professional foundryman, and even though I have a long list of critiques, I still love this guy! We are all missing the king of random!
why don"t you cover the mold with the top part and make a cavity for copper to go in?
this will prevent the sand pieces from popping, and leave only a small part of the mold exposed to air, hence giving copper more time to cool down... That's what I think.
btw the last gear is by far your best one :)
Yup. Make a sandwich mold, and cover with a steel plate of some sort. As +TheNorskViking mentioned, the sand is floating on the molten copper. Putting a capping plate over the works, and maybe adding some additional weight would help.
Help this genius!
masallah your smart
Abderraouf Mehdi Bouhali what he needs to do is mold it in something other than sand, the metal heats up the sand so much that it would just push it around.
I agree. having a two part mold would make a huge difference. it will also keep the centers from popping out
Hey Grant quick suggestion instead of doing little projects like this you should do a "build" were the daily projects all come together to make a super cool gadget or something.
Well just an idea thanks. :)
Trick Shots 4 Real
great idea
Try a closed mold, maybe it works better.
Markus K. and maby reinforcing the mold with some nails or metal in those centers to make them sturdier i have seen myfordboy do it
Tim van der wiel Exactly what I was thinking
R.I.P brother. You will be missed.😭😢
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@@kcannon333 Paragliding Crash
@@redstonerapid5926 did the grant thompson
We see couple minute videos but in reality this takes hours and hours for Grant. I'm so glad he does this for us. As for a casting idea, I think maybe you should try something like a metal lining for the sand cast so that the lining holds the sand in place. Thanks for reading.
completely correct
MotherEric wouldn't that be hard to get to make the shape perfect? Since the rock won't be completely smooth?
Then have to get liner off copper
First cast the metal lining then cast the gear. lol
I believe that since the copper has such a high melting point, anything other than steel, which he can't cast due to high melting point, would fuse to the copper mold, and ruin the pure copper cast.
I think the issue comes from the fact that molten copper is around 3.4x denser than molten aluminum. I think the bouency force was enough to separate the bond in the sand. the solution could be placing metal inside the radioactive symbols before packing the sand or by adding somthing inside the mold that would strengthen the bond in the sand. something like the plastic Christmas tree fasteners. Or anything long and with well defined edges.
For higher heat metals that are not Ferros metals, it's often best to use a denser molding material. I think it requires a higher silicon clay count for sand molding, or as someone said before using an oil base. Another thought would be to bake the clay sand mold to harden it so that it stays rigid in the casting.
I hope grant sees this
You should use casting sand
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Pennies aren't solid copper there's another metal inside
bentonite or oilsand ;)
or maybe mix sand and glue can work
Hannah Elson penny have zinc inside of penny as a copper.
just a thought, i used to work in the art department of a foundry that produced brass belt buckles, the sand they used was mixed with regular, new motor oil. They were able to achieve fairly fine detail. Their process was very similar to what you are doing. they had hydraulic tampers instead of wood blocks. Each casting was pressed from a reusable Zinc master. They reused their sand after sieving it for chunks.They always faced with new sand. Since was not in the foundry section, i can only offer what i observed. keep up the great videos, i enjoy they immensely.
there are vermiculite/sand mixes that harden as so the mold wont collapse
Ryan B. - right on! Also I'm not sure about copper but with aluminum, sugar (or maple syrup etc.) will give it strength also. It does scorch after each use though. I think the box in the video is too small for such a large pour. I agree it might work better with the top on it, copper should be poured off the finished part because of its weight.
Add a bit of Tin to your copper and it will be allot easyer
vanagas 119 Only a little bit of tin won't ruin everything.
Make sure you go ahead and use borax though.
Tin + Copper makes bronze. be something to try though.
FunctionTek really smartass?
I wish grant was my dad
Try sprinkling baby powder on top of styrofoam gear in place with the sand mold, then take a make-up brush, and lightly coat the surface, then remove the styrofoam gear from the sand mold, then pour the molten copper... (Your Welcome)
Like so, Grant can see...
BTW: my name is pronounced as (Al-ee-tan) or (Ali-tan)
Athithan Al-Eaten?
When I did sand castng (with silicon bronze), that worked for me.
That makes no sense, so you put baby powder on the Styrofoam that's in the mold, u coat the surface of said gear then you remove the gear? That would do nothing to the sand, only the Styrofoam. Ur basically just removing the gear with the baby powder, leaving just the untouched sand.
prebenkul no he said place baby powder after you remove the mold
Copper is heavy, man. It will shift any loose parts of the mold aside like they're nothing. You've seen it with the last casting - the pressure of the copper flowing in from all sides simply broke the loose sections apart and pushed them to the top. You'd need something like clay at the very least.
It's the foam you're using, it melts slow but also leaves parts of itself behind which can make imperfections in the mold. Also the copper doesn't have time to flow all the way in and completely fill the areas where the foam is making imperfections as you know.
Universes he isn't using foam
he did actually say styrofoam in the video tho
he used housing insulation
You need a closed mold, with a gravity pour, not a displacement pour.
You are also fighting against copper's surface tension.
try using sodium silicate casting, it's far easier and will not fall apart on you... you should also use both the cope and drag because the foam has nowhere to go when u pour it in because it melts top to bottom but if you use the other half it will push the foam and gasses out in one constant direction leaving behind clean perfect metal
also check out sv seeker, he has many aluminum, bronze, brass, lead etc. casting videos in sodium silicate... sodium silicate is cheap and can be bought on amazon
When we thermite weld railroad tracks we use a foundry clay. It has sand already in the clay, but the clay needs to be heated slightly prior to pouring your slag/metal. You don’t want your clay to appear slimy because any additional moisture may explode because of temperature difference.
What about popping the mould into the oven for a few mins? The heat will melt away the styrofoam and it will dry out the sand as well...
Nitrous Oxide The sand cools down the copper too quickly, heating the sand lowers the Temperature difference between the copper and the sand.
yea i was thinking he could preheat the mould with a propane torch maybe?
MagicSteve46 The problem with the torch is that if he's not careful it could ruin the mold. Even heating the mold up to 450 in the oven would solve a lot of his problems
The sand needs to be wet not dry
irfan2507 Wrong
Btw, you screwed yourself by adding moisture. Adding moisture just means that the water will boil rapidly...hence why it basically blew apart. Use extremely dry molding sand along with a closed mold. I guarantee you will get the part you are looking for.
Moisture is not the only problem. Silicate sand is waaaay less dense than solid copper. We saw those chunks of sand floating on the surface - which suggests they were basically pushed out by pure buoyancy force in accordance with Archimedes' law.
Jared Adams true
yeah, I actually start with wet green sand...but I also let that dry out then. The water and compacting tends to help the clay in the sand to bind better. Water will cause pitting/bubbles. Closed mold is a must. Just not sure why he didn't just use a vacated plaster mold though either...non-ferrous cast can be done with plaster super easy...and if he was willing to split the mold then realign it, he could have kept to a single pattern and made dozens of molds to try and re-try the process a few times.
He said at the end that he hasn't seen copper casting in green sand so he wanted to try it if it could work
Put your chickens in the furnace and melt them down to cast a fake chicken
RIP man hope there’s a TH-cam in heaven so you can keep educating and doing what you love
Heavens not real
I'm not weird everyone else is weird and I'm normal ok then
looks like your sand needs a binder.
Year i use oil sand for my casting videos work great!
Just because you bought 60 dollars of copper pipe doesn't mean there is 60 dollars worth of copper.......
JB Kaufman yup, and copper pipe is more expensive than copper wire, which is still nowhere near the value of copper. He needs to buy/find scrap copper or buy a few ingots from ebay
Right... I was thinking the same thing. That's like $10 of copper maybe?
true, maybe buy it from a recycling plant or something like that... maybe ripping copper from an old house or something... there's cheaper copper out there, but you got to take the time to chase it out
Exactly.
B1CAlpha 001 ait that right
Sand will have buoyancy compared to the copper -- so it'll float, because nothing is holding it down. You'll need some kind of mold that is either denser than molten copper, or solid so that the center pieces are attached to the base and can't float.
Rip,you made my childhood better.Thank you:(
Disclaimer: I posted this comment on the last video too.
Can your furnace get hot enough to melt rock? Then you would have your own lava for an even greater number of possible experiments.
Josh Palmer I believe he did melt rocks once. ones from his backyard.
Josh Palmer would be cool but difficult
he made an arc furnace and melted rocks several years ago.
Yes he did. But he use an arc furnace in the video
Nicholas Rivera like 5 years ago
You're making green sand molds? For that you need some type of binder like clay (5-7%) , additive like graphite (3-5%) and water (2-4%), i guess that should help. Just things i learned from university ..
love you Grant Thompson You always make my day! I'm all into engineering, metalworking, and woodworking! You pretty much do all those things! Along with a little hint of experimenting! I wish all the luck to you!
I loved his enthusiasm ❤️ we miss you dude
Wet sand = more steam. Consider clay dried and biscuit fired, with sprue vents.
Concrete will be destroyed in 600+°C... and how you would take out your gear from concrete without destroying it...
Grant you should add borax yo the copper while melting it, it will make everything easier and get better results
Roberto Contreras also skimming the slag off the top, helps with pitting.
It's something of a balancing act. Adding flux (borax) to the melt hurts the crucible.
always go to the scrap yards to get your copper much cheaper
Rick Gunter ɪᴛ's ɢᴏɴɴᴀ ʙᴇ ᴍᴜᴄʜ ᴍᴏʀᴇ ᴅɪʀᴛɪᴇʀ ᴛʜᴀɴ ᴊᴜsᴛ ʙᴜʏɪɴɢ ᴛʜᴇ sᴛᴜғғ ɴᴏʀᴍᴀʟʟʏ
but if you buy copper in scrap yard its not as clean as new stuff
Richard Jelen he was doing a terrible job of keeping it clean. How much sand do you think he mixed in with the copper?
Heathclor sᴏ ʏᴏᴜ sᴀʏɪɴɢ ʏᴏᴜ ᴄᴏᴜʟᴅ ᴅᴏ ɪᴛ ʙᴇᴛᴛᴇʀ ᴡɪᴛʜᴏᴜᴛ ᴜsɪɴɢ ɴᴀᴛᴇ ᴏʀ ɢʀᴀɴᴛ's ᴛᴇᴄʜɴɪǫᴜᴇ/ᴍᴀᴋɪɴɢ ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴏᴡɴ?
What do you guys mean by dirty copper? dust, dirt and sand is easily cleaned off, you grab a broken down electric motor or transformer and you could get decent copper there from the coils alone and other bonuses like aluminium and steel which is cheaper than buying brand new copper tubes pound for pound.
He’s not dead,
He is alive in all of our hearts, and you can never truly die if you have videos of you, or you are in people’s memories.
And don’t say rest in piece, for him say, experiment with happiness and fun.
true 😭
If sand is unstable and often popped out,why don't you used clay...🤔
That's exactly what i though and clay is easier to mold.
It will gives somewhat the exact shape.....🤔
He could use a mix of sand and clay like in a foundry along with a top mold with a spout to hold it together
Ikr
Clay may melt or burn and make a wierd shape where as sand won’t melt
I like the fact That you are trying so hard to show us the best results!
Show*
Mr.Dilophosaurus Wetherilli there is no correction
Mr.Dilophosaurus Wetherilli show*
It is too bad he uses styrofoam for casting, the air pockets inside ruin the cast when heated cause of the air trapped inside the casting material expands when heated, deforming the shape of the cast. Use wax man....or look into how they cast an enige block.
cope and drag.....use both Grant....its a simple fix!
Argh...
Why is seeing your face now is hard?
Yes, this saddens me so much, I wish I didn’t have to watch this, but it was too interesting, sad
I remeber being like 7 or 8 and watching his vids and now he is gone it's so heart breaking
Thinking about his videos makes me sad
Same
seeing him alive and happy here knowing that hes dead now makes everything feel so bad
Copper cools down really fast because it has a low specific heat capacity which means it looses or gains energy more quickly than other matter. For example water has a SHC of 4.18 joules/c while copper has 0.385.
Justin Grafstein I think I see his point, although I have no idea how accurate his numbers are. Not sure why he's comparing copper to water instead of aluminum, lead, etc., and even if heat capacity is an issue, latent heat and melting point would be more relevant since we're dealing with a phase change. I think there's some relevance to his comment though. He's probably assuming since copper is a great conductor, maybe it loses heat faster. I think that's where he was going with that, or in terms of specific heat, it takes less energy loss to cool copper per degree. It's a fair theory I think, unless I'm missing something.
Aaron Rappleyea yeah I totally understand...😐
Justin Grafstein I agree
I can confirm this as a refrigerant engineer.
You !NEED! to use the top part and create a Funnel aswell as a reservoir otherwise the copper will cool to quickly. And make the sand harder! Add a bit more water ad clay then everything will work.
Alexxd_12 are you trying to do *NEED* not. !NEED!
Alexxd_12 Yes, try to do bold with astrics or use underscores for italics. Or both. Looks nicer than !CAPS!.
adding more water will cause steam pockets to form and destroy the mold
*NEED*?
Alexxd_12 more water is a no go it will cause stea m to rise through the sand pushing the grains farther apart therefore making the mold less durable and clay will just crack under the heat so that won't work either.
if your going to cast copper in green sand you should use more clay in your mixture and bake it first
the additional clay creates a slightly denser mold and baking it reduces moisture and solidifies the mold
TheOtakuChicago I agree that what's I said
Sorry I didn't see your comment otherwise I would have +1ed it
I have 0 experience with metal casting as a whole but I remembered him saying something about the moisture in the sand being too low being a problem? Err...maybe the crucible evaporated the moisture in the green sand, causing the third failure where the sand got dislodged?
Grant was thinking in terms of sand castles where wet sand is more solid than dry. But the moisture will evaporate on contact with the molten metal and cause lot's of bubbles.
Otaku is saying add more clay and bake it so it becomes more like pottery. solid, dry
Really great video, I enjoyed it immensely! I’m sorry that you didn’t get your full gear ⚙️, but I admire your "Stick-To-It-Ness" you displayed!
I like the fails. We all learn from them. Thanks for being one of the best sites on TH-cam!
Don't take this the wrong way, but TKoR is FAR from being on the of the best channels on TH-cam. There is a very fine line between "popular" and "quality".
Man these things really don't copper-rate
Anson Lim ...
Just no
You should probably just go, dammit
Dun dun ditch
wow im laighing so hard HAHAHA!...no
I know a TH-cam that does green sand casting called tito4re. my guess is not having the other side on is making those middle chunks float on the copper.
Cheef He Should Do A Colab With Him
Right? He keeps going on like it's breaking new ground but tito has been doing it successfully for years...
You’re getting my like for cracking the hollow styrofoam, thank you for the satisfaction:))
I received my "random experiment" T-shirt last Week-End :-D
Thanks :-)
when i did copper casting, the inside pieces of sand that kept popping out happened to me aswell, i fixed it by shoving metal wires in through them as the Styrofoam is in it, and then fixing any imperfections the wires caused by just packing it down a little more
also** if it doesnt work, try gating it :)
or you could put a top flask on it
in high school i used put the Styrofoam in the center of the sand with holes that lead to it in the top. A few holes to pour into to distribute evenly and while pouring in each hole one by one the other two or three holes help with venting. Finally when it cools you cut off the extra and file/grind it down.
it was a metals class they just taught us how to build with metal like basic welding, sand blasting, castings and soldering. the class also taught us how to use tools like grinders and lathes. the castings were made with whatever we had at the time so mostly aluminum but we also used copper and pretty much everything else except steel.
same in my highschool. we did it with old pistons.
Philip Crotty Now THAT is a class i'd like to attend
Aron Loof idk about anywhere else but in my state it was rare to have a metals class lol. i moved a lot in high school so i ended up going to six different schools and only one of them had the metals class. the others just had woodworking which not all of them even had that.
Philip Crotty Yeah, i live in The Netherlands though, but here you get woodworking at high school and if you want to work with metal you have to get a degree for it.
I love how that foundry growls like a BEAST
Grant why don't u just burry the gear into the sand and create a small hole above and pour the copper like that
Lettuce Gaming ik but like the same way he made the styrofoam sword into metal sword
but that object was long(thats what she said) and it wasnt copper and also he is using his new one not the old one
Lettuce Gaming he needs to get proper casting sand, proper "sand" holds the shape. Usually you use clay or a clay sand mix
Seeing as this is a sand and clay mix it seems like you don't know what you're talking about.
Ohhh I didn't realise it was a mix of clay and sand I just thought it was wet sand.
Use bentonite clay mix with sand
That is EXACTLY what he did
GRANT!!! from the first pour on the first video i thought you would run into issues because you are not using a 2 tier mould, you need to make a second block of sand with a hole through it and place it on to of the bottom mould and then pour, this will solve both of your issues by holding the sand in place and holding in the heat longer. Please revisit