I bought 110,000 pre-1977 memorials at an auction two years ago for 70% of face value. I still have 90,000 left after removing the occasional wheat and Indian head pennies and turning some into the bank and selling some for 3 cents each. What I sold for me about $800, leaving me with a $25 profit and still 90,000 pennies. What's left is now worth about $2,355 in copper based on the 16 lbs. per $25 ratio used in the video. Not bad for a $775 investment. I think I'll stick with pennies. Of course, that's over 600 lbs of pennies that I don't move that often... lol.
@@jacobjoseph3636It was an estate auction. The auctioneer took the highest bidder... me. I guess no one else wanted to deal with the hassle of that many coins.
Yes that sounds good but like you said it is a lot of weight laying around but great story and it made me very interested in looking into estate sells thanks for sharing have a good one
There's far more economical ways of smelting and even getting a better yield than what is represented here and copper has doubled in price since this video so I think it's a great idea to save all your pre 82 pennies. I have been saving them for years now.
@T B yes, you can. I live in mid Michigan, and there are 5 places within a 50-mile radius where I can sell smelted copper as #1 scrap copper for 4+ dollars per lb.
Hey there Mr Scott Man, If you simply drill a hole in a penny, it then becomes a "washer" :) A washer that size, costs 12 Cents. That is a Much better return on energy, and labor. I had a situation, whereby I sent a guy to get some lag screws. The guy forgot to get washers :/ The hardware store (remember them ;) was 2 hours (round trip) away :/ Fortunately, I had 20-30 quarters in my truck. There is a deck in Eldorado, NM that has quarters as washers. Yours truly, James MacGyver Gill
The 3rd member on my mustang had a few foreign copper coins with holes drilled in them used as crush washers to seal in the differential fluid, was pretty cool to see. I heard about people way back in the day doing the same thing when building ships, I think they were using large cents from the 1800s.
The value of copper seems more stable in the long term (to me) than the unstable stock market. Like Silver it’s bound to continue its increase in value over the yrs. Enjoyed the demonstration - Thanks for sharing it! 👍
Yeah, because Amazon stock hasn't grown at all since day 1, right? So if instead of Amazon stock, you bought $10,000 worth of copper on the same day that Amazon stock had it's IPO and saved it until today, you'd be happier with the copper than that terribly unstable Amazon stock, right?
The fact of including your child in this is absolutely ridiculously important and fantastic! I applaud you and her I'm assuming! 👏 I love your work! Much respect 🙏!
Good for you, bagface for being woke to the fact that our children are no longer boys or girls and should all be dressed in little skirts so we don’t influence their decision to identify as male or female or trans or whatever.
Costs = Materials, labor and overhead. Copper, gas, scrap, your time, depreciation of the smelter, clean up material, depreciation of the molds, electricity, and storage costs of the copper material.
$75 with todays prices with $25 worth of pennies plus all your time involved. Very cool video and that looked very heavy so you must be strong and brave.
current copper price is #3.39 / pound. $54.24 less $10 for LP gas leaves you with $44.24. $44.24 less the $25.00 in pennies leave you with $19.24. $19.24 / $25.00 = 77% profit. Not bad - beats the stock market!
However, gas and tank cost can be offset with elbow grease. Scrap wood, lumber, discarded pallets etc. Can be made into charcoal. A charcoal fired forge with bellows costs $0 🔨 🔥
Even in 2020 copper was not that low. Somebody was giving you a terrible price skewing your math. Great video and thank you for showing the exact law verbatim.
That's why i build a wood and coal fire and I use a real efficient hand crank blower motor from an old coal forge. It takes a bit of work but I dont have to buy gas.
Instead of a gas forge, would a wood/coal based fire (with air blower) work to reach melting temp? ( I have no idea if a blacksmiths fire reaches melting temps, just seems like it would be cheaper).
Are you SURE that you don’t know if humanity was able to smelt before the invention of a gas fueled forge? ARE YOU SURE you’re not just being an idiot?
If you can make one that works decently, a waste oil furnace will melt just about everything. Used motor oil and cooking oil, old diesel or kerosene will burn extremely hot and much cleaner than coal or charcoal. The main problem with building a WMO/WVO furnace is most designs want a pressurized feed, and at higher burn rates you'd need a large air compressor running almost constantly.
@@chjarvis85 Not sure about David, but I am about you. Blacksmith forges aren't for melting, they are for heating metal until its malleable. His question is a valid one, the answer to which is that it depends on the forge itself.
You say in the video that you're not allowed to sell those ingots as proscribed by law. Yet, carefully reading the regulation you kindly posted at the beginning of your video doesn't seem to say that. It appears to state that you can resell melted-down pennies and nickels IF they're being sold for artistic purposes (novelty or jewelry are mentioned) rather than the intrinsic value of the metal. Does that mean that if one polished the ingot and sold it as an art piece that it could be resold legally?
That was the same logic behind the prohibition of ownership of gold. If you had a gold coin, drilled a hole in it, and put it on a necklace, you were not violating the law
about 50% of all 1982 pennies I have collected are Copper coated Zinc. It's a bit too late to tell you this now. I always either weigh them or use the drop / Ping test.
My Dad worked the Cash & Carry Counter at a Metals Supply in Atlanta, Georgia. Every few months a man in the same overalls stopped by and purchased about 6 rolls of coiled copper tubing. Once my Dad asked what he did with them. He said he chopped it up in various odd lengths and scattered about his Salvage Yard, making a handsome profit.
I'm glad you pulled out the wheat backs, I used to see them all the time 20 years ago with the occasional Indian head, now I haven't seen an Indian head in years and I hardly come across wheat backs in the wild anymore.
Thank you for the video and the sacrifices that it took to make it. It answered several of my questions and because of that, has earned my subscription & 👍. Thanks again
“According to Title 18, Chapter 17 of the U.S. Code, which sets out crimes related to coins and currency, anyone who “alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens” coins can face fines or prison time.
@tahoma6889 This law is only applicable if you're trying to comit fraud. Destroying stolen money, trying to wash small bills to make larger denominations, trying to change dates & mint marks to a rarer date, things like that. Otherwise, those machines that turn pennies into souvenirs would be illegal, as would the large refineries that melt down silver coins.
So in simple terms, leave the pennies as they are, unless you're intending to actually make something that has a useful utilitarian purpose. Good informational video.
Question do you need to preheat the molds. You don't need to use propane There are a few different ways like charcoal and methane gas . So that being said you can make a profit
yeah it takes time, but if you weigh them (1982 pennies) its much faster, copper pennies weigh in at 3.1 grams while zinc pennies weigh in at 2.5 grams, you can even go buy sound by dropping them on a hard surface, copper pennies have a distinct sound compared to zinc pennies.
I get what you're saying to a point. But, do you know when the markets going to crash again. When all that money you invested into stocks disappears. The great thing about metals is they hold their value. The stock market has been around for not long at all. But metals have been traded since the dawn of time. Yes they might go up and down a little. But when the stock market crashes again, because it will, your metal is still worth something
Unless the market stays crashed below your investment value for 5+ years then it's not the same. Markets recover most of their pre crash value within a few years of a crash. Also if it is during a crash the value of the propane is going to go up. You would have to stock that too.
The next "crash" will be the last. The technocrats are ready for their complete takeover. Many lives will be lost. Your stocks will not feed you or anyone else.
Once the U.S. converts to digital currency,the coins and paper money won't be "legal tender". Will it still be illegal to melt the pennies since they won't be legal tender anymore?
@Steve L If it's worth more than face value just for the copper content,I would think you would have to sell it to a scrapper in bar form? That's my best guess.
@@ebayerr If the coins are no longer legal tender, just sell them to a scrapper in the coin form. They are much more proficient in the melting process. They will weigh the coins and give you 95% of what ever they are paying per copper pound.
Nice educational video. I also CRH and have never hoarded copper pennies. However, since so many other people do, I've always wondered if maybe I should start. Thanks for reinforcing my decision not to. I agree that you would be losing money in the long run, with inflation alone, let alone the cost and effort it would take to melt it. Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
I agree that melting pennies to keep as bars for monetary gain is futile. If however you were to collect older pennies and then find the ones that were more desirable to collectors, you could sell one penny for a decent price. Less work, more profit.
If there were clean ,shiny and engraved ingots you can sell them for more (like 50$ per 2 pounds ingot ) as they could be nice on a desk . That is where the markup can be made .
Well done Scott. I am sure you are getting paid now. This was good, I wonder if it could be done with a good old style forge with wood or coal to be cheaper? Then it might make sense but it would be so labore intensive. I dont think it would be worth it even then.
meant to reply to the above "propheZ23" guy , But I wish I could melt down all the old Paper Shotgun Brass Hulls I have + other dug scrap metals . I know it can be done , I saw 'Big Stack Dude do it ' but don't know where to get a smelter and molds. That's just 1 of 100 things I want to do , add in the Bullets & fishing weights & WOW ! Mucho Metal . LOL
Clarification. 1982 was the year the U.S. Mint removed Some of the copper and replaced it with zinc. Both Copper and Zinc we're pressed for that year. Have to weigh each penny that year to separate Zinc from Coppers. They sound different when dropped as well.
@@scottsCC I thought from 1959 to 1982 pennies were 97% copper, and 3% zinc? After 1982 pennies were 3% copper and 97% zinc. A lot of people don't know this but you're early Indian Head pennies are bronze. Not copper
@@unknownuser2737 'Flying Eagle' and early 'Indian" Cents were 88% copper, 12% nickel,. During 1864 the alloy was changed to bronze, in 1982 changed to copper plated zinc. Cents minted from mid 1864 through mid 1982 were bronze and weigh 3.1 grams.
1982 was a transition year when copper cents were made in the beginning of the year and then they changed and began making zinc cents. Anyone who is experienced with coins doesn't have to weigh them. They can tell if it's zinc by the look, feel and weight of them by eye and hand and give them the bounce test too. I've searched 100s of boxes of coins and found Indian head cents, wheaties, Canadian and foreign coins and I saved all copper cents dated up to 1982. I've sold $25 boxes of rolled copper cents to a scrap metal recycling center and more than doubled the money and got $54. I would never melt down and destroy coins. Btw, my recycling center would buy the copper ingots at the current scrap spot price. Why waste time melting coins when you can take boxes of copper coins to a recycling center and double your money. But not all buy coins so I'm lucky mine does. I don't have to advertise them either.
Quick tip: I Cut a piece of cardboard and put it under the crucible before I start, the carbon prevents refractory/crucible from fusing onto the base of the silicon carbide crucibles.
@@stevenleslie8557 Both our countries made them. I am a Canuckian. My dad saved a few as he was there in the middle of that awful time in Europe. He was gone for 3 years. I treasure every one of them from both our countries. They all paid big for our freedom.
of the pennies that you sift through to see if any are valuable. there are two penny dates specifically that i am learning sell for money. i wont say those dates but i do have a question - of the pennies that you sift through, other than those i just mentioned, what other types of things in pennies do you look for, that might raise their value a little bit? I am basically trying to sell 1 penny, for two pennies at the pawn shop - but they kicked me out. So I am wondering - other than those two dates, is there anything else that shows up while you sift through pennies? I have learned a few things so far. I am realizing people might scratch off the "D" or "S" date, to fake the coin having a defect, so I have no idea about what to keep on eye on. Ebay does not seem to be a plausible option, because shipping it through fed ex (I spoke to a guy in person, said it cost .80, to ship, plus Ebay takes .99 - so maybe my question to you is - are there any pennies out there that sell for four dollars instead of three dollars? Because no one is buying my crap pennies on ebay lol, and I have already looked through $100 of pennies, and I have not found a single penny that has one of those two dates
God bless America! Really great subject, AND our currency will hopefully always be WORTH more than its surface value! REMEMBER you can only do this in the USA! Give thanks… no complaints!
That's pretty impressive analysis... Though I think you might stand to benefit from watching some serious metal melting/form pouring guys on TH-cam like TheGrowingStack and bigstackD... They have better tools if you're intending to do this more frequently. My advice is get a lifter that will apply force to the sides of your crucible for picking it up and place it into the center of a pouring tool with a full circle on the end that supports the whole thing. I think one of those guys has a video on making the tools for pouring molten metal. That said the yield you've gotten is quite respectable... that's got to be close to 99%.
@@scottsCC Hope you have fun with it... Good thing is copper melts pretty low temperature, to melt steel well even those guys I listed have trouble doing it. I think the one guy set his forge/tank to like 4 mPa or whatever and still didn't get it fully melted though I've seen people melt steel with big induction coils and it melts pretty fast but that method is crazy dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
@@tahoma6889 I asked a penny destruction artist about the legalities the other day... she said they sell her artwork IN THE MINT. she was really rude about it too... she must answer that question a lot.
So, if you kept the Pennie’s as is, would they have more value in exchange if the dollar crashes. Not only as copper, but a know value (quantity of copper). The same as silver coins have a set value of silver. And has a set value in silver in each coin depending on size and date manufactured.
READ the Law at the beginning of the video guys! I have no plans or intent to sell any of it. This is not against current US law as it is not being 1) sold or 2) sold for profit. It is for educational purposes only. All of the coins used here were 1982 and older AND all of the 1982's were weighed individually to ensure they were 3.11g and not the 2.50g zinc ones.
I have to say that was pretty cool. My mother will tell you (with a chuckle) about the time I set the carpet on fire trying to make a zinc apple from pennies using the lost wax process. I'm lucky it was just 10 year old carpet that was damaged, that stuff retains a lot of heat. I don't think it'd ever be worth it to melt them down in a backyard set up. I'm not sure doesn't the government sometimes decree certain coins are "obsolete" and can take a trip to the foundry?
“According to Title 18, Chapter 17 of the U.S. Code, which sets out crimes related to coins and currency, anyone who “alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens” coins can face fines or prison time.
@@tahoma6889 That specifically refers to attempting to change the value (alter) or remove the metal (lighten). Destroying a coin is not mentioned, because the statute is about fraud.
I have probably close to a thousand copper pennies, and I was waiting for them to be worth more but, if I have to buy everything to melt them I don't think is really worth it, better invest in to something that will be worth over time. Thank you that was a good wake up call, on saving those copper pennies.
Things change. Your mystery blob will become valuable soon enough and China won't be sending supplies to their enemy pretty soon either. People who make furnaces in the good ol USA still get their supplies from China. Might want to get the furnace while you can. Your mystery blob has more copper in it than a mere penny and finding a bunch of pre 82 pennies today is proving harder and harder. All recycled metals head to China. Finding copper is eventually going to be as hard as finding silver scrap is today. All good things do come to an end. Anyone thinking a penny is going to get anything after a dollar collapse is nuts but "blobs" will be bought to make munitions. People amaze me by how dense their thinking is. If you sell me a legit blob of copper the first time I will happily barter with you for a second "blob" again. Just sayin... You do you.
Agree, not worth it. As some have commented, a copper cent is a pre determined, convenient copper content and value depending on the price of copper. There is no need to alter that in any way. Copper cents are really our last form of constitutional money around and I too have been keeping any I've received but they are becoming scarcer. It is fun to search coin rolls, it is worthwhile (and free) if anyone wants to build up a stash of copper. Copper cents could be a means of rounding prices if the situation arises where people only accept silver instead of worthless paper.
First, as he says, it is illegal to melt down pennies. Right now, copper is about $4.5/lb. You need 153 pennies to make a pound of copper (pennies are 95% copper). So there is a $3/lb spread. So it should be economical to melt them. But I would just save them as pennies, for now.
I stack copper but I get it through scrapping I had heard years ago that there was a time when if you melted down a copper penny it would double it's value but I haven't done it and enjoyed watching and learning from it good job
@@hector5749 .05-.15 per dollar.... that's still hardly anything, but to be more profitable you'd have to cut out the propane....maybe an old propane tank with 1/2 the top cut off...stuck on a bonfire and starting with a few thin copper pipes to get the melting started....! $4 OF pennies would weigh about 2.5lbs after melting.... let's say a price of $3/lb canadian..... $3×2.5 = 7.50 - 4.00 (pennies) = 3.50 profit per pound.... gotta cut out the propane... I wonder how many pennies would fill a propane tank half full ;)
Copper right now on 1/4/25 is $3.95 usd/pound.... so that $25 in pre1982 copper pennies is worth over $60 usd. Propane refill today is less than $20 for a 20lb tank. Times and inflation changes, metals will hold and increase their value.
I know a guy who has been collecting copper Pennie’s since before I was born. He’s got like four pallet boxes full. Has to be 10 tons at least. Use a waste oil heater to melt the copper. Get a 200 gallon bin of oil for free from an oil change shop. Plenty of folks use waste oil heaters. It’s almost $5 a pound now.
So that devil forge thing, is that something you made or bought? I ask from complete ignorance because it looks sort of like a stock pot with concrete or something poured into it.
Zinc will harm you, so do be careful. As an artist I am always looking for copper to use for art, not profit. Coins were what I thought of, but the zinc factor has me spooked.
I know a copper penny is worth more as scrap than it is in money but I don't know if the scrap buyer would trust a person selling melted copper, because it can be mixed with other metals and would be hard to tell the difference, They can drill and test it but some don't want to bother.
An organization gathering bars for industrial processing may have a spectrometer. It's a 50,000$ gun which can be set to detect various metals and their purity. I have seen someone bring one to a coin store as their main purchaser of scrap silver. He humored me scanning a palladium ring once, accurate breakdown of 3 trace metals aside the stamp purity. I don't see a massive need to micromanage purity of copper bars, they will either shred them or hydraulic press cut them in half and throw them in the bin. It's one of those situations where hiding another metal in the core is an engineering feat not worth the effort, like how it costs more to produce pennies than their value. Unless you come with appraisal certificates you will likely just get scrap #2 for dirty copper, but if you did have authenticity, you wouldn't take it to the yard as bullion. It would really only begin to make a difference if people began handing off bars as semi-liquid means of exchange. People would likely ask as many questions as we do now with the metal content of change, ending up in another melt for industry where they'd purify and repurpose before dwelling on the odd content.
If you shoot, brass spitzer bullets are a thing if you can source some zinc. That seems allowed under the law. That way you’re not left with 16 lbs of paper-weights. You might even be allowed to sell them, as then the value is not based “solely” on the value of the metal in the coins.
So the way to come out on melting pennies for copper is to melt it in a wood fire that you were going to burn anyway. Just need a blower, and $2500 in copper pennies to make a grand. Of course you could use them to plate with as they are. Copper is worth a lot more when you plate it onto a bumper and chrome over it or whatever.
Great illustration there buddy. Lesson learned I'm sure. At the beginning I thought you were gonna make a profit, you hear so many people going on about it. I know you're a coin channel, I'm a scrap copper channel. I get heaps of copper and it only costs me the time to collect it. I collect other metals as well including gold and silver, but I like the copper most b/c it's free. Great video pal. Were kinda in the same niche, liked and subbed.
are they going to do away with all cents? i sure hope so cuz ive ran out of place to put it all. when i buy things i often find myself saying "keep the change cuz ive ran out of room" i would keep them in my flashlights if only they could power them.
Ok here's why melting coins is a bad idea. Coins in their original form are recognizable. You know what you're getting and what it's worth. When it's melted down like that, it's not easily exchangeable in a SHTF economy. For example, gold bars - some can make the weight come out right for the size by putting tungsten inside the bars. For your copper here someone else would want to x-ray or cut open your bar to make sure there's nothing hiding in there even if they weigh it' and thats a lot of work.
Hard work never hurt anyone partner..!! Let alone playing with coins and fire ,,lmao,,what "hard" work ...lord I hope your genZ ,then you'll have somewhat an excuse my guy ..lolol,,goofy as shit !! Get a job and try some hard work fr .you'll love it ,,,or you want ,but then you'll know ,at the least, just what kinda man ya are ,rather lack of ...😊 hard work ,,never laughed so hard at a comment in my life ..
Iv learned something today, don’t leave comments until viewing the entire video. Great video 👍
I bought 110,000 pre-1977 memorials at an auction two years ago for 70% of face value. I still have 90,000 left after removing the occasional wheat and Indian head pennies and turning some into the bank and selling some for 3 cents each. What I sold for me about $800, leaving me with a $25 profit and still 90,000 pennies. What's left is now worth about $2,355 in copper based on the 16 lbs. per $25 ratio used in the video.
Not bad for a $775 investment. I think I'll stick with pennies. Of course, that's over 600 lbs of pennies that I don't move that often... lol.
Why would anyone sell you pennies for less then face value when they can take them to a bank and get 100% of the value? That doesn't make any sense
@@jacobjoseph3636It was an estate auction. The auctioneer took the highest bidder... me. I guess no one else wanted to deal with the hassle of that many coins.
Would you want to take the time and energy to move that load just for face value?@@jacobjoseph3636
Yes that sounds good but like you said it is a lot of weight laying around but great story and it made me very interested in looking into estate sells thanks for sharing have a good one
@@jacobjoseph3636people constantly make financial moves that dont make sense. Get out of the house and see for yourself.
There's far more economical ways of smelting and even getting a better yield than what is represented here and copper has doubled in price since this video so I think it's a great idea to save all your pre 82 pennies. I have been saving them for years now.
I have 3 big ammo cans full of them and probably 10 or more filled with quarters dimes and nickels
Cant sell smelted copper anyway.
Cooper is up to $4.73 per pound today 03/20/2022, Go figure!
@T B yes, you can. I live in mid Michigan, and there are 5 places within a 50-mile radius where I can sell smelted copper as #1 scrap copper for 4+ dollars per lb.
@@TB-sw1tf well even at $4.73 per pound it only comes to $35.00. And adding in the cost of equipment, time, and gas, I don’t think it’s worth it.
After watching this video & doing the math , I'm realizing that this really makes cents !! 🤣👍
This needs more likes
It makes dollars...lol
Da da da da da da, ding!
Golden
You can bet your bottom dollar
Hey there Mr Scott Man,
If you simply drill a hole in a penny, it then becomes a "washer" :)
A washer that size, costs 12 Cents.
That is a Much better return on energy, and labor.
I had a situation, whereby I sent a guy to get some lag screws. The guy forgot to get washers :/
The hardware store (remember them ;) was 2 hours (round trip) away :/
Fortunately, I had 20-30 quarters in my truck.
There is a deck in Eldorado, NM that has quarters as washers.
Yours truly,
James MacGyver Gill
Thanks, that's a good idea for an emergency
That's a great story.
The 3rd member on my mustang had a few foreign copper coins with holes drilled in them used as crush washers to seal in the differential fluid, was pretty cool to see. I heard about people way back in the day doing the same thing when building ships, I think they were using large cents from the 1800s.
Genius! I'm about to 12x my investment in a $100 box of pennies! TY
Common practice in Mexico with worthless centavos.
How about melting and selling scrap metal ?
Is that illegal too ?
don't be an idiot, everyone knows it is a felony to deface (yes, that includes melting down) U.S. coinage
It’s absolutely worth it as long as you also make a TH-cam video for “educational” purposes.
Well I’m 72 years old and I never quit learn thank you for showing me something new
The value of copper seems more stable in the long term (to me) than the unstable stock market. Like Silver it’s bound to continue its increase in value over the yrs. Enjoyed the demonstration - Thanks for sharing it! 👍
Stable long term stocks are really hard to beat. 10% return, historically. Just deal with the ups and downs and don't sell until you have to
Yeah, because Amazon stock hasn't grown at all since day 1, right? So if instead of Amazon stock, you bought $10,000 worth of copper on the same day that Amazon stock had it's IPO and saved it until today, you'd be happier with the copper than that terribly unstable Amazon stock, right?
Is there a way to remove debris and non copper elements when smelting?
Thats what I was wondering. He forgot to mention pre 1982 still has 5% zinc. So this isn't 100% copper.
@@jeffreydouglas6002 i watched a ton of videos and can not find anyone mention this.
The fact of including your child in this is absolutely ridiculously important and fantastic! I applaud you and her I'm assuming! 👏 I love your work! Much respect 🙏!
What do you mean you’re assuming? You can see in the video that she did in fact have a little bit. That’s a very odd placement of the word “assuming”.
Good for you, bagface for being woke to the fact that our children are no longer boys or girls and should all be dressed in little skirts so we don’t influence their decision to identify as male or female or trans or whatever.
What?
@@smarterthanyou9090 Calm down.
@@LinkRocks Based on what did you come to the conclusion that I was excited somehow and needed to "calm down"?
Hi! Would you be open to melting for others if they would pay you to do it?
👍🏻 nice job. The time you spent with your daughter ... priceless 😃
Costs = Materials, labor and overhead. Copper, gas, scrap, your time, depreciation of the smelter, clean up material, depreciation of the molds, electricity, and storage costs of the copper material.
Bet you are fun at a party! 😅
It's not a smelter, learn the difference between that and melting. Also, America doesn't have pennies, we have CENTS.
Go away negative Nancy. 🤷♂️
I just enjoy listening to the parrot in the background. I am a servant to my own parrot master.
that was his wife!
@@ChesapeakeBayBrian399haha
$75 with todays prices with $25 worth of pennies plus all your time involved. Very cool video and that looked very heavy so you must be strong and brave.
current copper price is #3.39 / pound. $54.24 less $10 for LP gas leaves you with $44.24. $44.24 less the $25.00 in pennies leave you with $19.24. $19.24 / $25.00 = 77% profit. Not bad - beats the stock market!
my backyard has a natural gas line, can i use that instead of using refilled propane?
sure...poke a hole and light.
Absolutely, with a hot enough flame/forced air!
However, gas and tank cost can be offset with elbow grease. Scrap wood, lumber, discarded pallets etc. Can be made into charcoal. A charcoal fired forge with bellows costs $0 🔨 🔥
you still need borax
Then you run into the time issue when firing with charcoal
Even in 2020 copper was not that low. Somebody was giving you a terrible price skewing your math. Great video and thank you for showing the exact law verbatim.
That's why i build a wood and coal fire and I use a real efficient hand crank blower motor from an old coal forge. It takes a bit of work but I dont have to buy gas.
I like how you explain and how you use common cents.
Instead of a gas forge, would a wood/coal based fire (with air blower) work to reach melting temp? ( I have no idea if a blacksmiths fire reaches melting temps, just seems like it would be cheaper).
It's possible I would think!
Are you SURE that you don’t know if humanity was able to smelt before the invention of a gas fueled forge? ARE YOU SURE you’re not just being an idiot?
If you can make one that works decently, a waste oil furnace will melt just about everything. Used motor oil and cooking oil, old diesel or kerosene will burn extremely hot and much cleaner than coal or charcoal. The main problem with building a WMO/WVO furnace is most designs want a pressurized feed, and at higher burn rates you'd need a large air compressor running almost constantly.
@@chjarvis85 you feeling pretty satisfied with yourself after being a total ass to a stranger?
@@chjarvis85 Not sure about David, but I am about you. Blacksmith forges aren't for melting, they are for heating metal until its malleable. His question is a valid one, the answer to which is that it depends on the forge itself.
Once they are in ingot form, how are they going to know?
You say in the video that you're not allowed to sell those ingots as proscribed by law. Yet, carefully reading the regulation you kindly posted at the beginning of your video doesn't seem to say that. It appears to state that you can resell melted-down pennies and nickels IF they're being sold for artistic purposes (novelty or jewelry are mentioned) rather than the intrinsic value of the metal. Does that mean that if one polished the ingot and sold it as an art piece that it could be resold legally?
Or pour it into an art piece instead of a plain ingot.
Nice loopholed you find
That was the same logic behind the prohibition of ownership of gold. If you had a gold coin, drilled a hole in it, and put it on a necklace, you were not violating the law
Once the coins are melted down how would anyone know they used to be pennies? Nobody that's who, so just do it and profit.
@@mmace3 Actually any scrap yard with a PMI gun can tell instantly.
about 50% of all 1982 pennies I have collected are Copper coated Zinc. It's a bit too late to tell you this now. I always either weigh them or use the drop / Ping test.
My Dad worked the Cash & Carry Counter at a Metals Supply in Atlanta, Georgia. Every few months a man in the same overalls stopped by and purchased about 6 rolls of coiled copper tubing. Once my Dad asked what he did with them. He said he chopped it up in various odd lengths and scattered about his Salvage Yard, making a handsome profit.
not sure what he was doing. the buyer was scattering chopped up tubing in his salvage yard?
@samboheena When he finds it again, the price will have increased in value
Very Intresting video. More fascinating on the melting of copper than the value of it.
Thanks 👍
Melting useless arcade game tokens is the option I choose is that when arcades no longer use tokens, they must melt down for real.
Alot of those are brass to at least the ones I have come across
I'm glad you pulled out the wheat backs, I used to see them all the time 20 years ago with the occasional Indian head, now I haven't seen an Indian head in years and I hardly come across wheat backs in the wild anymore.
Thank you for the video and the sacrifices that it took to make it. It answered several of my questions and because of that, has earned my subscription & 👍. Thanks again
“According to Title 18, Chapter 17 of the U.S. Code, which sets out crimes related to coins and currency, anyone who “alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens” coins can face fines or prison time.
@tahoma6889 This law is only applicable if you're trying to comit fraud.
Destroying stolen money, trying to wash small bills to make larger denominations, trying to change dates & mint marks to a rarer date, things like that.
Otherwise, those machines that turn pennies into souvenirs would be illegal, as would the large refineries that melt down silver coins.
Also another video has shown that you can separate the copper and zinc. So it is possible to economicly sell the zinc and copper separately
I think the future of copper looks brighter than gold
How can you tell the difference between melted pennies and melted wire?
melted pennies are 100% copper, so they could possibly test it being an inget. just noticed this was two years ago so ill stop talking though
So in simple terms, leave the pennies as they are, unless you're intending to actually make something that has a useful utilitarian purpose. Good informational video.
like otzie the Ice Man's Copper Axe ?
gringo joto
Question do you need to preheat the molds. You don't need to use propane There are a few different ways like charcoal and methane gas . So that being said you can make a profit
Absolutely preheat the molds!
You should make a lift ring for your crucible. Lifting by the edge like that could be risky if it comes apart and all the molten contents spill out.
Spare me! Not another "safety dance" person! Leave us alone safety people! Do it!
@@DonnyHooterHoot ok boomer
Especially in shorts and Crocs. 😂
@@DonnyHooterHoot you're free to do what you want. You're the one that is gonna get molten metal on you
Donald, I hope you never have a molten metal accident.
what about use of electricity? power generator? solar generator? initial investment but later it'll recoup no?
Not to mention how long it takes to sort out the zinc coins. Great video....thanks☺
yeah it takes time, but if you weigh them (1982 pennies) its much faster, copper pennies weigh in at 3.1 grams while zinc pennies weigh in at 2.5 grams, you can even go buy sound by dropping them on a hard surface, copper pennies have a distinct sound compared to zinc pennies.
could you try electrolysis using copper sulfate?
I get what you're saying to a point. But, do you know when the markets going to crash again. When all that money you invested into stocks disappears. The great thing about metals is they hold their value. The stock market has been around for not long at all. But metals have been traded since the dawn of time. Yes they might go up and down a little. But when the stock market crashes again, because it will, your metal is still worth something
Unless the market stays crashed below your investment value for 5+ years then it's not the same. Markets recover most of their pre crash value within a few years of a crash. Also if it is during a crash the value of the propane is going to go up. You would have to stock that too.
The next "crash" will be the last. The technocrats are ready for their complete takeover. Many lives will be lost. Your stocks will not feed you or anyone else.
Once the U.S. converts to digital currency,the coins and paper money won't be "legal tender".
Will it still be illegal to melt the pennies since they won't be legal tender anymore?
@Steve L If it's worth more than face value just for the copper content,I would think you would have to sell it to a scrapper in bar form?
That's my best guess.
@@ebayerr If the coins are no longer legal tender, just sell them to a scrapper in the coin form. They are much more proficient in the melting process. They will weigh the coins and give you 95% of what ever they are paying per copper pound.
👍 I’ve been curious about this Penny melt process. My questions have been answered. Thank you. (SUBd)
Thanks for the sub!
Nice educational video. I also CRH and have never hoarded copper pennies. However, since so many other people do, I've always wondered if maybe I should start. Thanks for reinforcing my decision not to. I agree that you would be losing money in the long run, with inflation alone, let alone the cost and effort it would take to melt it. Thanks for taking the time to make the video.
I often wonder if the people melting these go through them first good vid!
Yes, they were all gone through to sort 1982 and older, and 1982 were all weighed individually.
after fuel costs and (especially) personal time cost, is $10 really and "earning"?
I agree that melting pennies to keep as bars for monetary gain is futile. If however you were to collect older pennies and then find the ones that were more desirable to collectors, you could sell one penny for a decent price. Less work, more profit.
Sorting through coins like that is tedious and boring WORK.
How about a solar or wind-charged battery bank to run a blower for a coal/wood-fired melting oven?
If there were clean ,shiny and engraved ingots you can sell them for more (like 50$ per 2 pounds ingot ) as they could be nice on a desk . That is where the markup can be made .
I was wondering how do you make copper
Well done Scott. I am sure you are getting paid now.
This was good, I wonder if it could be done with a good old style forge with wood or coal to be cheaper? Then it might make sense but it would be so labore intensive. I dont think it would be worth it even then.
Funny most 1982 Cents I come across are the Copper Ones & Yes I check Each one .
meant to reply to the above "propheZ23" guy , But I wish I could melt down all the old Paper Shotgun Brass Hulls I have + other dug scrap metals . I know it can be done , I saw 'Big Stack Dude do it ' but don't know where to get a smelter and molds. That's just 1 of 100 things I want to do , add in the Bullets & fishing weights & WOW ! Mucho Metal . LOL
You could probably just dig a pit in the ground and make a blast furnace.
Is that considered defacing money which is illegal?
Clarification. 1982 was the year the U.S. Mint removed Some of the copper and replaced it with zinc. Both Copper and Zinc we're pressed for that year. Have to weigh each penny that year to separate Zinc from Coppers. They sound different when dropped as well.
Correct! 3.11g for 95% copper,. 2.50g for mostly zinc ones.
@@scottsCC I thought from 1959 to 1982 pennies were 97% copper, and 3% zinc? After 1982 pennies were 3% copper and 97% zinc. A lot of people don't know this but you're early Indian Head pennies are bronze. Not copper
@@unknownuser2737 'Flying Eagle' and early 'Indian" Cents were 88% copper, 12% nickel,. During 1864 the alloy was changed to bronze, in 1982 changed to copper plated zinc.
Cents minted from mid 1864 through mid 1982 were bronze and weigh 3.1 grams.
How about rhodium? Would you work that?
Never tried Rhodium.
1982 was a transition year when copper cents were made in the beginning of the year and then they changed and began making zinc cents. Anyone who is experienced with coins doesn't have to weigh them. They can tell if it's zinc by the look, feel and weight of them by eye and hand and give them the bounce test too. I've searched 100s of boxes of coins and found Indian head cents, wheaties, Canadian and foreign coins and I saved all copper cents dated up to 1982. I've sold $25 boxes of rolled copper cents to a scrap metal recycling center and more than doubled the money and got $54. I would never melt down and destroy coins. Btw, my recycling center would buy the copper ingots at the current scrap spot price. Why waste time melting coins when you can take boxes of copper coins to a recycling center and double your money. But not all buy coins so I'm lucky mine does. I don't have to advertise them either.
for me it's the sound
the reason people go to the trouble to melt copper down themselves is because you can get around $20 a pound for "artisinal" ingots.
don't worry about destroying coins, they already sell destroyed coin art at the mints.
I would just keep them , the price of copper is only going up over time , like most other metals that come short for some industries ..
This guy wants the biggest cookie
Quick tip: I Cut a piece of cardboard and put it under the crucible before I start, the carbon prevents refractory/crucible from fusing onto the base of the silicon carbide crucibles.
I have found the war time pennies from WWII work best. 1939 to 1946. I do pours for vets quite a bit.
Removing the steel ones of course
Steel pennies?
@@stevenleslie8557 Both our countries made them. I am a Canuckian. My dad saved a few as he was there in the middle of that awful time in Europe. He was gone for 3 years. I treasure every one of them from both our countries. They all paid big for our freedom.
@@stevenleslie8557 in 1943, during World War II, they made pennies from steel in order to use the copper for other more important purposes
@Steve L I will melt anything if asked to. Some silver pieces mean a lot to folks when made into something special they want.
of the pennies that you sift through to see if any are valuable. there are two penny dates specifically that i am learning sell for money. i wont say those dates but i do have a question - of the pennies that you sift through, other than those i just mentioned, what other types of things in pennies do you look for, that might raise their value a little bit? I am basically trying to sell 1 penny, for two pennies at the pawn shop - but they kicked me out. So I am wondering - other than those two dates, is there anything else that shows up while you sift through pennies? I have learned a few things so far. I am realizing people might scratch off the "D" or "S" date, to fake the coin having a defect, so I have no idea about what to keep on eye on. Ebay does not seem to be a plausible option, because shipping it through fed ex (I spoke to a guy in person, said it cost .80, to ship, plus Ebay takes .99 - so maybe my question to you is - are there any pennies out there that sell for four dollars instead of three dollars? Because no one is buying my crap pennies on ebay lol, and I have already looked through $100 of pennies, and I have not found a single penny that has one of those two dates
ooooooh yeah because if you say the dates everyone will run out there and find them! getouttahhere
1943 copper is one of them.
@@leerusch7392 yeah, that and '83. and if a '59 wheat back exists
Should heat your molds before pouring and pour slower for a smoother more even bar. Lose less grinding that way too.
Heat the molds to avoid a steam explosion...unless you like getting burns.
He had his safety shorts on.
He did heat his molds as seen at 8:52
@@robertmeadows1657 you forgot to mention his fire proof Crocs.
You should also pre heat your utensils to prevent the metals from Sticking to them
i have kept pennys i find now have about ,guessing, 25 gallon in jugs and jars .
Did you weigh each of the 1982 pennies and pull out all the 99.2% zinc coins? Lesser impurities the better in smelting process.
Yes my thoughts as well 1982 was an interesting variety for pennies
Yes - they were ALL separated by hand, the 1982 ones were weighed (3.11g copper, 2.50g zinc). These are ALL 95% copper.
It's not smelting, and America doesn't have pennies. We have CENTS.
God bless America! Really great subject, AND our currency will hopefully always be WORTH more than its surface value! REMEMBER you can only do this in the USA! Give thanks… no complaints!
That's pretty impressive analysis... Though I think you might stand to benefit from watching some serious metal melting/form pouring guys on TH-cam like TheGrowingStack and bigstackD... They have better tools if you're intending to do this more frequently. My advice is get a lifter that will apply force to the sides of your crucible for picking it up and place it into the center of a pouring tool with a full circle on the end that supports the whole thing. I think one of those guys has a video on making the tools for pouring molten metal. That said the yield you've gotten is quite respectable... that's got to be close to 99%.
Thank you - and yes this winter when I fire the forge back up, I plan on having a better lifting tool for the crucible!
@@scottsCC Hope you have fun with it... Good thing is copper melts pretty low temperature, to melt steel well even those guys I listed have trouble doing it. I think the one guy set his forge/tank to like 4 mPa or whatever and still didn't get it fully melted though I've seen people melt steel with big induction coils and it melts pretty fast but that method is crazy dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.
I agree with everything theyve said, except for the love of god…. Put some pants on and lose the crocs. Burns of that nature really suck
@@scottsCC I sound a penny the other day worth $392. from the 1970's.
By the way, defacing or destroying currency is a crime, ya know?
@@tahoma6889 I asked a penny destruction artist about the legalities the other day... she said they sell her artwork IN THE MINT. she was really rude about it too... she must answer that question a lot.
So, if you kept the Pennie’s as is, would they have more value in exchange if the dollar crashes. Not only as copper, but a know value (quantity of copper). The same as silver coins have a set value of silver. And has a set value in silver in each coin depending on size and date manufactured.
True, I can foresee a time when an apple costs 5 copper cents.
READ the Law at the beginning of the video guys! I have no plans or intent to sell any of it. This is not against current US law as it is not being 1) sold or 2) sold for profit. It is for educational purposes only. All of the coins used here were 1982 and older AND all of the 1982's were weighed individually to ensure they were 3.11g and not the 2.50g zinc ones.
how do you remove the zinc content to move the melted pennies into a ingot at greater 95% purity ?
This was quite informative. You did it so I would not have to. I’m trying to help your Al Gore rhythm.
I have to say that was pretty cool. My mother will tell you (with a chuckle) about the time I set the carpet on fire trying to make a zinc apple from pennies using the lost wax process. I'm lucky it was just 10 year old carpet that was damaged, that stuff retains a lot of heat. I don't think it'd ever be worth it to melt them down in a backyard set up. I'm not sure doesn't the government sometimes decree certain coins are "obsolete" and can take a trip to the foundry?
“According to Title 18, Chapter 17 of the U.S. Code, which sets out crimes related to coins and currency, anyone who “alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens” coins can face fines or prison time.
@@tahoma6889 That specifically refers to attempting to change the value (alter) or remove the metal (lighten). Destroying a coin is not mentioned, because the statute is about fraud.
I have probably close to a thousand copper pennies, and I was waiting for them to be worth more but, if I have to buy everything to melt them I don't think is really worth it, better invest in to something that will be worth over time. Thank you that was a good wake up call, on saving those copper pennies.
Things change. Your mystery blob will become valuable soon enough and China won't be sending supplies to their enemy pretty soon either. People who make furnaces in the good ol USA still get their supplies from China. Might want to get the furnace while you can. Your mystery blob has more copper in it than a mere penny and finding a bunch of pre 82 pennies today is proving harder and harder. All recycled metals head to China. Finding copper is eventually going to be as hard as finding silver scrap is today. All good things do come to an end. Anyone thinking a penny is going to get anything after a dollar collapse is nuts but "blobs" will be bought to make munitions. People amaze me by how dense their thinking is. If you sell me a legit blob of copper the first time I will happily barter with you for a second "blob" again. Just sayin... You do you.
Agree, not worth it. As some have commented, a copper cent is a pre determined, convenient copper content and value depending on the price of copper. There is no need to alter that in any way. Copper cents are really our last form of constitutional money around and I too have been keeping any I've received but they are becoming scarcer. It is fun to search coin rolls, it is worthwhile (and free) if anyone wants to build up a stash of copper. Copper cents could be a means of rounding prices if the situation arises where people only accept silver instead of worthless paper.
Penny is being discontinued shortly.
@@463656 The penny has been planned to be 'discontinued shortly' for 50 years and its still around. I'm not concerned.
@@Anonymous-db2de in may I believe was what I meant by shortly
What's in the penny that would get you in trouble if you melted it down to bars ....sorry if I missed it if you said it in video ....
First, as he says, it is illegal to melt down pennies. Right now, copper is about $4.5/lb. You need 153 pennies to make a pound of copper (pennies are 95% copper). So there is a $3/lb spread. So it should be economical to melt them. But I would just save them as pennies, for now.
Pennies WHERE 95% copper they mostly made from zinc or aluminium nowadays and plated with copper.
Definitely illegal. Citation: CFR 82.1
So what would you do with the copper if you can't sell it? If you make it into something like bracelets or jewelry, you still can't sell it?
Now I know why we are in coins shortage crisis.
Haha.
That is a myth. Contraction of the money supply.
The shortage is people throwing them away.
our*
😂😂😂 yeah
What country are you in in America we use oz and lbs
I stack copper but I get it through scrapping I had heard years ago that there was a time when if you melted down a copper penny it would double it's value but I haven't done it and enjoyed watching and learning from it good job
310grams in 1$ .... 4$ of pennies would weigh 3 pounds of copper ... you'd double the value and pay for the propane to melt them down
@@ryanscott2548 95 percent copper or 88% so you have to take that into account
@@hector5749 .05-.15 per dollar.... that's still hardly anything, but to be more profitable you'd have to cut out the propane....maybe an old propane tank with 1/2 the top cut off...stuck on a bonfire and starting with a few thin copper pipes to get the melting started....! $4 OF pennies would weigh about 2.5lbs after melting.... let's say a price of $3/lb canadian..... $3×2.5 = 7.50 - 4.00 (pennies) = 3.50 profit per pound.... gotta cut out the propane... I wonder how many pennies would fill a propane tank half full ;)
Is this illegal thing to do ?
Yes
would there be anyway to actually tell the copper was made from pennies?
Copper right now on 1/4/25 is $3.95 usd/pound.... so that $25 in pre1982 copper pennies is worth over $60 usd. Propane refill today is less than $20 for a 20lb tank. Times and inflation changes, metals will hold and increase their value.
Copper is $4.33 only nine days later (1/13/25).
Is their any mention in this video that the act of melting pennies is highly illegal?
Right at the beginning I state the law!
I know a guy who has been collecting copper Pennie’s since before I was born.
He’s got like four pallet boxes full. Has to be 10 tons at least.
Use a waste oil heater to melt the copper.
Get a 200 gallon bin of oil for free from an oil change shop. Plenty of folks use waste oil heaters. It’s almost $5 a pound now.
So that devil forge thing, is that something you made or bought? I ask from complete ignorance because it looks sort of like a stock pot with concrete or something poured into it.
17:07 “It’s not worth it.” (Green scale backlight goes out.)
How are they going to know if you sell it? They won't unless you post a video about it
Zinc will harm you, so do be careful. As an artist I am always looking for copper to use for art, not profit. Coins were what I thought of, but the zinc factor has me spooked.
Use pre 1982 pennies.
Thanks for time patience and days of looking for those pennies and the process
I know a copper penny is worth more as scrap than it is in money but I don't know if the scrap buyer would trust a person selling melted copper, because it can be mixed with other metals and would be hard to tell the difference, They can drill and test it but some don't want to bother.
An organization gathering bars for industrial processing may have a spectrometer. It's a 50,000$ gun which can be set to detect various metals and their purity. I have seen someone bring one to a coin store as their main purchaser of scrap silver. He humored me scanning a palladium ring once, accurate breakdown of 3 trace metals aside the stamp purity.
I don't see a massive need to micromanage purity of copper bars, they will either shred them or hydraulic press cut them in half and throw them in the bin. It's one of those situations where hiding another metal in the core is an engineering feat not worth the effort, like how it costs more to produce pennies than their value. Unless you come with appraisal certificates you will likely just get scrap #2 for dirty copper, but if you did have authenticity, you wouldn't take it to the yard as bullion.
It would really only begin to make a difference if people began handing off bars as semi-liquid means of exchange. People would likely ask as many questions as we do now with the metal content of change, ending up in another melt for industry where they'd purify and repurpose before dwelling on the odd content.
Wow,how much is copper right now?
If you shoot, brass spitzer bullets are a thing if you can source some zinc. That seems allowed under the law. That way you’re not left with 16 lbs of paper-weights. You might even be allowed to sell them, as then the value is not based “solely” on the value of the metal in the coins.
Newer pennies are zinc
Can a regular fire pit be hot enough to melt copper?
Not even close, but a forced air furnace MAY be able to!
So the way to come out on melting pennies for copper is to melt it in a wood fire that you were going to burn anyway.
Just need a blower, and $2500 in copper pennies to make a grand.
Of course you could use them to plate with as they are.
Copper is worth a lot more when you plate it onto a bumper and chrome over it or whatever.
what accounts for the variation in weight?
Great illustration there buddy. Lesson learned I'm sure. At the beginning I thought you were gonna make a profit, you hear so many people going on about it. I know you're a coin channel, I'm a scrap copper channel. I get heaps of copper and it only costs me the time to collect it. I collect other metals as well including gold and silver, but I like the copper most b/c it's free. Great video pal. Were kinda in the same niche, liked and subbed.
how is it free? pennies?
@@hector5749, my copper is free.
@@irishgoldstacker8018 and how can I get some of this copper from you? Ill pay spot price ?
What about the zinc?
Copper is $4 now :P
btw, Any idea how much it would cost to refine those bars to .999 purity?
No clue, I'm guessing it's also much more expensive for him to melt down metals at home than large scale metal recycling plants.
1$ in pennies weighs 310 grams ... 454 grams in a pound. He may have doubled the value of the pennies after melting them down
Next to free if you know how to make nitric acid.
@@ryanscott2548 you weight it yourself?
are they going to do away with all cents? i sure hope so cuz ive ran out of place to put it all. when i buy things i often find myself saying "keep the change cuz ive ran out of room" i would keep them in my flashlights if only they could power them.
"You made exactly nothing on this." Kind of like selling silver on eBay.
I learned something new from you. I didn't know that you can not sell it after you melt it down.
Ok here's why melting coins is a bad idea. Coins in their original form are recognizable. You know what you're getting and what it's worth. When it's melted down like that, it's not easily exchangeable in a SHTF economy. For example, gold bars - some can make the weight come out right for the size by putting tungsten inside the bars. For your copper here someone else would want to x-ray or cut open your bar to make sure there's nothing hiding in there even if they weigh it' and thats a lot of work.
Hard work never hurt anyone partner..!! Let alone playing with coins and fire ,,lmao,,what "hard" work ...lord I hope your genZ ,then you'll have somewhat an excuse my guy ..lolol,,goofy as shit !! Get a job and try some hard work fr .you'll love it ,,,or you want ,but then you'll know ,at the least, just what kinda man ya are ,rather lack of ...😊 hard work ,,never laughed so hard at a comment in my life ..
Box tear weight ?
Prices up to 4.46 by the way. Also seems like you might need a more effective way to do it
where do you find these types of molds ? :)