I am not v good at rules so I don't know. Sashimi should be careful because in some situations ahe may rieo having her hand declared dead. A line doesn't necessarily automatically count as line for mucking purposes. I would b vvvvvv suspicious of her having a v strong hand though
I usually respect & enjoy your content but this video is ridiculous. She does the same routine every week & is encouraged to do so. Your viewers that don’t watch the show regularly will never know that.
A that hand is dead😮😢😮😢. But also it’s max pain Monday. They want those likes and controversy for views and ratings. Of course they let her play on. Some lines literally should not be crossed!!!
yep, perfect comment here. a game set up to be a clown show, somebody got clowned. he knew what he signed up for. play in dirt you'll get dirty. not saying there's anything not wrong with it.
as you said in your intro, it was max pain monday, and they all knew what they were signing up for. it was his first time, so i can get that he was upset. she said right after that she didn’t get to give him a hug, so she was just playing up max pain Monday.
Bro max pain Monday people usually just slow role each other and play shitty hands. Not angle shot people especially people that don’t play for a living.
@@marcuslarwa9098 no one at the table complained. no one called for a ruling. it wasn’t even the first time she had done that in the session. she is always in full troll mode during MPM, and this was just part of that. if someone didn’t like it, they could have called for the floor to make a ruling. no one did. 🤷🏼♂️
@@awesomerhino8008 I don’t actually watch her but the people I do watch usually just slow roll on MPM. They don’t angle people. Why would anyone at the table say something in a hand they weren’t involved in. She took advantage of some one that doesn’t play poker nobody else at the table is going to stand up and say something. You think if she did that do someone that actually knows the rules about people they wouldn’t have taken the pot right then and there when she tossed her hand in? That’s a fold and anyone that plays poker knows that 100%.
@@slimshady4313 I don't accept that.. this was really the worst possible outcome. There was nothing teachable about this it just happens sometimes. The muck though should have counted.
I actually commented on this during the live stream chat and got absolutely blasted by Sashimi lovers and HCL trolls. I’ve watched MPM plenty of times and yes needling and slow rolling is encouraged, not angle shooting which this very clearly is even if “it’s all in fun.”.
@@mrhumble2937 tbh the way she was giving away that she was nutted that might be one of the few spots someone could have gotten away with folding that Q6 hand… I agree I don’t think it was an angle but considering Tommy was playing for his first time on the stream it did come off a little rude idk.
Same here they banned my comments as well. They put her on the show to make those lonely, women deprived fellow cheer for her regardless how horrible her character is. See how she acted merrily scooping all the chips while the guy was skint going home. She is a snake i despise her .
it’s important to recognize that this was not an isolated incident. she had made the same move multiple times during the session vs various other players, and no one had any problems nor said anything.
that was my assumption. angle shooters don't tend to show up doing it once. it's promoted here. like a hockey league that allows slewfoots/knee on knee hits since they're "funny" to watch. to the extent this is popular it correlates directly with being bad for the future of poker. people see this and the newer ones might/will think this is "normal" poker. a large segment of humanity already thinks poker is filled with cheaters/scumbags etc, this only furthers that idea. calling this stuff akin to "home games" makes home games sound awful.
Well if you are clearly watching the River, Tommy really thought he has the winner and was slow rolling Sashimi in real time, 🤣😂. He slow rolled the Sushi but instead bit the wasabi!
I’ve been dealing poker at a casino now since January last year. If a player folds their hand we are told to muck it immediately. If the dude wanted to fight it he should’ve called the floor over for a ruling. But the hand is not dead until it hits the muck or hits the floor lol
so since you are casino dealer, would u say that in table with no lines just so that we make it very easy, If the player throws the cards slightly to the middle but not hitting the muck and then actually changing his mind the only thing that makes a difference is if the dealer grabbed the cards to muck them very fast or not, correct?
@@memes420blaze the “line” you’re referring to is a betting line. It’s meant to keep intent out of the game. If a player looks down at his whole cards and and even slightly nudges them forward I grab it. Everyone folds their hand different so having good awareness is one of your best qualities as a dealer.
Since slow rolls are encouraged on this particular stream, this is par for the course. I've seen enough Max Pain Mondays; it's almost like a home game. What Sashimi did was fine.
@@Glastokilmao bro you you’re the absolute last person that we as Asians, care about. Limitless jokes come to mind just from your profile picture alone. You’d be better off staying quiet.
If Tommy is not experienced or good then why slowroll him? He lost the pot and left . He night have been quite happy to continue playing if Sashimi hadn't been an idiot.
don’t agree with this: it’s “Max Pain Monday“ and this kind of behavior is encouraged and expected. This is entertainment TV not quiet back room Poker. And look! We are talking about it -- successful entertainment TV
As played in this worse than home game setup rulewise, hand is live. Although, if it went in the muck even a bit (as to make it unclear if when retrieving the cards its the same 2 cards), or if the dealer actually cought the "folding hand" thsn i would argue the hand is dead. Again, since the game is played like it is that day i would argue all goes and ppl should know that beforehand.
Getting reads when you know the cards is very easy. There is no way on earth you would have thought anyone would risk their hand being folded by throwing their cards across the betting line and probably would have said so if she was bluffing, when they have the nuts. It takes someone who has seen the angle, is familiar with the rules and has probably seen it several times and likely does it regularly. You need to be in a similar position to recognize it as a premeditated angle.
In most casinos, only chips going over the line counts as a completion of an action. The cards can be anywhere as long as the player didn't say fold and/or give them to the dealer.
hand is live, cards have to hit the muck, when people throw cards forward, dealer responsibility to grab cards quickly and avoid situations where someone realises something about their hand either themselves or because of sideline comments. varies casino to casino but yeah betting line doesn't actually mean much enforcability wise it's on the dealer to clarify action, calls folds all ins etc
I think the words ' Party Game ' form the basis of any ruling or thinking. Plenty of home games or even regulated games have a Mulligan component. Every now and then someone at our home game will throw the cards in instead of chips and immediately explain- most of us allow the cards to go back to the player - but there is still some angst when they win the pot
Dead Hand Depends. Oklahoma is the Only Place i've Played where they're STRICK oN the Line. i Crossed it with a Hand Full of Chips but Only Dropped 1/2 Dealer & Players told Me We Cool this Time but here if those Chips Cross All those Chips are the Bet.
1.ruling question: she should be warned by the floor that throwing your cards towards muck won't be allowed going forward (if you want your hand to not be counted as dead). as they didn't touch the muck here her hand is allowed to be kept. either way, dealer needs floor to show up right in the middle of this hand to do this ruling. here i'm in a vacuum (not assuming she already does this routinely, which is probably likely. angle shooters aren't statistically likely to have been created the second we see one hand by them).
hahahaha Sashimi is really awesome, this was incredibly entertaining to watch. Also, as a poker dealer myself I appreciate her antics at the end w/ what appears to be the dealers tip. This must be a super fun game to deal hahaha
I dont know that id call that an angle... It was some intense reverse tells but thats not an angle. He could have called the floor, but he didnt want her to fold
Whether the “betting line” on the felt means anything depends on the house rules. In a game where the rule is that any bet that crosses the line is a committed action, her hand should be dead. In most games it’s not run that way, and she didn’t say anything, so as long as she grabs her cards back her hand would be live. It is an angle shot for sure though.
While I think some players and possibly some dealers would say her hand was mucked, I think if we are going on intent here she clearly did not intend to knock her cards forward her hands followed directly behind them right away. I would not call her hand dead, Play on!
@@NMaster-lp8yz well no the cards did not touch the "muck" the discards. I see now she did toss the cards and in the same motion grabbed them back. She did not say fold and the dealer did not touch the cards, potentially the other player could call the floor but that's not happening in this situation. I should have said it's clear she had no intention of folding here though she's clearly physically making motions before she can consciously wrangle in her motions.
Every card room has different rules for instances like these and even still one manager may rule different than the other. He could have asked for a ruling but why would you when you have a boat.
The initial bet when she bet, pulled back and bet more shouldn’t have counted as it’s a string bet, unless announced and she is filling the announcement. Once she mucked the cards, that is a fold, can’t pull them back. Only reason this got through is because his hand was so strong, he wanted to keep her “bluffs” in
Slow roll is fine since MPM, but the chip grabbing and OBVIOUSLY throwing the cards then grabbing them , should have been called dead immediately. Then to not even say anything to him as he leaves, nah she has a terrible attitude.
The thing about reading Sashimi here is that JJ absolutely MUST be in your range for her. Which means you're screwed. There's no way to find a fold, and no way to play it that won't lose you big. These hands happen and the point is to win enough the rest of the time to make this a tiny blip on the radar.
Understanding the context of the game is important. They are encouraged to act a fool up in here... however, the fold is out of line, and her hand should be dead. If we look past that, the slow roll is fine BUT the way she just reached for the chips and splash them her way is just bad etiquette, regardless of the context. I wouldn't play with a person like that ever again
I regulary host a game at home, say twice a week. Even though it is all fun and games and laughs all around we do play like gentleman. That said, this ofcourse is my game and i make up the rules and make them clear to everybody. we have agreed that a move like that for example is a very much a fold. Also, a bet is a bet and after that, you just cant keep adding more to your bet unless you have anounced it previous to the actual action of putting in the chips (binding verbal anouncement) But sometimes when things go little bit off (not like in this video) the table will reason about it and comes to a consensus. I guess that's the most important thing to have at a table. Whenever the table turns to me about an issue i tell them the exact ruling and reason and then that's what's happening.
If u run the game as the floor and they are ur rules then their shouldn't be anyone else chiming in on what should be done, especially folks effectively taking a vote. The rules are the rules, and the house enforces the rules. If ur playing in a game then someone else should deemed the floor that isn't at that table to make the ruling in accordance with the rules. Otherwise, if the rules are bent to favor a situation someone is gonna do that in the future and say "well u all let it go last time". Just my point of view. And I have ran a poker game. Even a small home needs rules and structure, otherwise it just becomes the wild west and folks will be making up shit as they go along.
Good question, my first reaction was that's a fold. But, it is a betting line and not a folding line. Tried to figure why she did that... PS. Tommy having the queen was not a blocker. Still having the blocker issues...
I think these max pain Mondays are stupid for this reason (and many others). But at these stakes she should know her hand could be ruled dead. I guess that's just part of that game but in any regular game anywhere most houses and casinos are going to be very strict on things that can alter action. If you're messing with your cards pushing them forward and back and whatever it's usually nothing but a clear motion forward and letting go of your hand is almost always going to be a fold. Imagine her opponent saw that and mucked his cards. The thing is if a room gets lenient on people doing things that can alter action then they become another layer of strategy. I know my cards aren't going to be considered dead if I chuck them over the betting line so I'm gonna take a risk free shot at getting an advantage. Maybe my opponent flips over what he has and I see it beats and tell him "nice hand" or I see it doesn't beat me and I pull my cards back and go "just kidding". Maybe his cards hit the muck and I reach over and pull mine back or it's a multiway pot and I get the guy next to me to act as if I folded then after he calls I pull my cards back in and take down a three way pot. There's a lot of ways this can go good for you and if it's a room that's wishy washy about their rules then there aren't many ways it can go bad. So it's a risk free strategy to gain a small edge which of course can be a lot of money
It's max pain monday, so any amount money lost shouldn't matter enough to tilt you. If it does, then it's too big of a game to play in, even if it's in all fun. The game was created to draw max pain, but in reality, the money shouldn't matter, so it's not the pain of losing any amount of money. The real theme of the game is to bring max fun, that means the game should not be too emotional that it tilts you literally. That's just my opinion. And Sashimi is one of the biggest reason why Max Pain Monday is such great success, is because of her antics on the Monday game.
Hand is live. Her take-back was immediate, so no action taken in response to her move and no question about which were her cards. I would be very surprised if any floor ruled her hand was dead, even not in "max pain" game.
The way she grabbed his chips is just rude, no respect, got dealt a huge cooller and acted like she is best poker player at the table, unpleasant personality
Max Payne Monday means you can needle and slow roll but you still can’t angle shoot, that was ridiculous, and people will continue to push the line on Mondays until it is cheating adjacent
nice "post oak bet" comment, been a long time since i heard anybody use that phrase. not super system long ago, but seems close (i'm not actually old enough such to have been alive when super system came out, so can't be as long as i might be making it seem).
By the rules, this is a fold - quite clearly. If we want to discuss this, it might be important to check what hand she had and see, if it makes sense, that she could accidentally fold that hand. But no way. This is simply an angle. Maaaaaybe in this line up it’s okay. But they play for real money. And she could be goofy with other stuff. If it was her first time - give here a penalty. If she do it again, hand is folded.
Sashimi, an example of seeing beauty thats only skin deep. Come try that shit in Dallas at my table. Stuff like this gets you robbed outside the casino or card room.
I mean technically, he could have made a stink about it and got a ruling and it might have been called a fold... However! He had a full house and didnt want her to fold. Obviously cant say anything after he sees her cards, so it almost doesnt matter. 9/10 casinos let the players call the floor to get a ruling, even if it is against the rules
Clearly the answer is "B". Nothing should happen to her hand. Her cards didn't hit the muck. Even if the DID hit the much, if the cards can be clearly identified as hers, and she wants them back, she would be afforded the opportunity to retrieve them. It's max pain Monday, she's just doing the same thing as speech play.
"games incentivized to be casual". never heard that phrase uttered previously but i think i get the gist of it. anything to get viewers right. short term profit thinking right for the site running it (clicks etc). other than outright cheating/theft (which hustler and the addelstein thing recently had an issue with), i can't really think of anything worse for the future of poker than this stuff here. fake mucks, slow rolls, whatever. who exactly do these people willing to mortgage the future (i'm guessing to get famous) of poker think this turns off long term for poker: good players or bad ones? good ones can handle slow rolls and other stuff like this (most of them anyway). bad ones, the very ones you want in the game for as long as possible, those are the types that might not like being used as some sort of whipping bag and probably don't take it well to be made to look like a fool for the fun of the others (first time i saw an angle shoot this literally happened, worst player at the table left in less than 5 minutes, have no idea if that was long term the case, but point remains, was victim of angle shoot, to which majority of the table yucked it up when the reg did it to him, even as a relative neophite this didn't seem good or smart by anybody involved, including the dealer). you don't have to respect your opponents (and i'm quite sure you'll run into some that aren't worthy of it, whether ethically, intellectually, or otherwise), but pretending to surely is better for your long term bottom line as a long term poker player than not. act like a decent human being to the other humans playing in the game, you WANT them coming back (esp the bad at poker ones), for a long as possible (pretend you are a casino, what do you think they want to do). preaching long term equity to humans that just want short term ego gratification is a lost cause likely. i'm done.
in your own games, to dodge slow rolls, just hold your cards till it's your turn to show your hand; the longer the attempted slow roller wastes everybody's time (esp those not in the hand who only should want to get on to the next hand, and the house who should also want to get onto the next raked hand, time is money for them, literally) the more they'll get socially engineered to not waste everybody's time so they can dip themselves into the pond of torturing their opponents for fun.
Is Sashimi Chinese? She said "$400" in Chinese on the turn. I always thought she was Japanese. Also given the nature of the game I think it's fine to take your hand back if the dealer hasn't touched it yet.
Sashimi is the worst ,horrible , poker player i have ever seen. Superficially she acted really nice to you but she would take every cent of u. Those shallow fellows got played by her nearly every time. People should have noticed that whenever she made the bet by throwing her chips allover the place that was when she got a monster or nuts.
I’d say hand is live since she took them back right away and she didn’t say the word fold. And it’s max pain Monday. They do shit like that all the time
Regardless, of the game....that is NEVER EVER A FOLD. Only if announced or if it is unretrievable from the muck. Why do people continue to bring this up, or ask this question? It's not a fold. Another instance, is SIGNIFICANT action behind, resulting from the "fold."
I changed my mind. She does the toss and then says to the dealer, "not yet?" and grabs them back. So not only did she look like she was folding, but she did it out of turn. Two etiquette rule broken. I don't know what the rules are here. However, these Max-pain games get out of line so often, I now agree with you.
![$333,000 & The BIGGEST Pot Of RAMPAGE Poker’s Career [SICK Runout!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ly5K8R8T7wI/mqdefault.jpg)
What should the ruling be on Sashimi’s hand on the turn?
A) Her hand is dead
B) Play on!
Dead, and I would ban her
B). Been playing in LA for 10 years and it's still live as long as dealer doesn't grab cards or hits muck. Seen this too many times.
I am not v good at rules so I don't know. Sashimi should be careful because in some situations ahe may rieo having her hand declared dead. A line doesn't necessarily automatically count as line for mucking purposes. I would b vvvvvv suspicious of her having a v strong hand though
I usually respect & enjoy your content but this video is ridiculous. She does the same routine every week & is encouraged to do so. Your viewers that don’t watch the show regularly will never know that.
A that hand is dead😮😢😮😢. But also it’s max pain Monday. They want those likes and controversy for views and ratings. Of course they let her play on. Some lines literally should not be crossed!!!
I think her actions were completely in line with the spirit of a game I would never play
Hahaha this took the words out of my mouth
yep, perfect comment here. a game set up to be a clown show, somebody got clowned. he knew what he signed up for. play in dirt you'll get dirty. not saying there's anything not wrong with it.
as you said in your intro, it was max pain monday, and they all knew what they were signing up for. it was his first time, so i can get that he was upset. she said right after that she didn’t get to give him a hug, so she was just playing up max pain Monday.
Bro max pain Monday people usually just slow role each other and play shitty hands. Not angle shot people especially people that don’t play for a living.
@@marcuslarwa9098 no one at the table complained. no one called for a ruling. it wasn’t even the first time she had done that in the session. she is always in full troll mode during MPM, and this was just part of that. if someone didn’t like it, they could have called for the floor to make a ruling. no one did. 🤷🏼♂️
I mistaking slow rolling for angling.
@@awesomerhino8008 I don’t actually watch her but the people I do watch usually just slow roll on MPM. They don’t angle people. Why would anyone at the table say something in a hand they weren’t involved in. She took advantage of some one that doesn’t play poker nobody else at the table is going to stand up and say something. You think if she did that do someone that actually knows the rules about people they wouldn’t have taken the pot right then and there when she tossed her hand in? That’s a fold and anyone that plays poker knows that 100%.
@@marcuslarwa9098 that isn't a fold... those were clearly her cards and retrievable since ya know she did.
This taught me how much a preflop mistake can compound itself.
what was the preflop mistake????? playing suited q6? lol
@@krisskrop6739 limped, called oop with a hand that flops poorly
@@slimshady4313 I don't accept that.. this was really the worst possible outcome. There was nothing teachable about this it just happens sometimes. The muck though should have counted.
It was a cooler with alot of shenanigans, which HCL is Famous for
@@krisskrop6739 you clearly aren't very experienced in poker.
I actually commented on this during the live stream chat and got absolutely blasted by Sashimi lovers and HCL trolls. I’ve watched MPM plenty of times and yes needling and slow rolling is encouraged, not angle shooting which this very clearly is even if “it’s all in fun.”.
I remember haha I mentioned it too. And asked them on the ‘pregame’ show about it but they never relied to me… even though I’m super chat or w/e lol
Angle what, she had the nuts and he wanst going anywhere.
@@mrhumble2937 tbh the way she was giving away that she was nutted that might be one of the few spots someone could have gotten away with folding that Q6 hand… I agree I don’t think it was an angle but considering Tommy was playing for his first time on the stream it did come off a little rude idk.
@@mangohavoc6428 I saw her act like that in hands she was losing too tho.
Same here they banned my comments as well. They put her on the show to make those lonely, women deprived fellow cheer for her regardless how horrible her character is. See how she acted merrily scooping all the chips while the guy was skint going home. She is a snake i despise her .
Even in a normal game if your cards don't touch the actual muck it's not dead.
Thank you someone gets it
Not only that in some casinos you can retrieve the cards even if they touch another card. I've seen it happen.
it’s important to recognize that this was not an isolated incident. she had made the same move multiple times during the session vs various other players, and no one had any problems nor said anything.
its not just her, either. I've seen other players make similar moves and no one ever has any problems with it. It seems to be SOP on max pain monday.
It's max pain Monday. They encourage doing that and slow rolling etc. It's all for the stream not the actual poker
@@Scottjf8 I was revolted by her slow roll.
But if the format is encouraging it, that was awesome!!
@@Scottjf8-If that's the case then cool, but in a normal game both actions on the flop n turn were horrible.
that was my assumption. angle shooters don't tend to show up doing it once. it's promoted here. like a hockey league that allows slewfoots/knee on knee hits since they're "funny" to watch. to the extent this is popular it correlates directly with being bad for the future of poker. people see this and the newer ones might/will think this is "normal" poker. a large segment of humanity already thinks poker is filled with cheaters/scumbags etc, this only furthers that idea. calling this stuff akin to "home games" makes home games sound awful.
Can't believe Tommy took it so well. Humble guy
You can’t play in this game and take it anything but well or you won’t be invited back.
Well if you are clearly watching the River, Tommy really thought he has the winner and was slow rolling Sashimi in real time, 🤣😂. He slow rolled the Sushi but instead bit the wasabi!
@@Stockhandle123 hes a tiktok celebrity. He Don't need this game lmao
@@Nile15rush_fj need no, want yes.
I’ve been dealing poker at a casino now since January last year. If a player folds their hand we are told to muck it immediately. If the dude wanted to fight it he should’ve called the floor over for a ruling. But the hand is not dead until it hits the muck or hits the floor lol
so since you are casino dealer, would u say that in table with no lines just so that we make it very easy, If the player throws the cards slightly to the middle but not hitting the muck and then actually changing his mind the only thing that makes a difference is if the dealer grabbed the cards to muck them very fast or not, correct?
@@memes420blaze the “line” you’re referring to is a betting line. It’s meant to keep intent out of the game. If a player looks down at his whole cards and and even slightly nudges them forward I grab it. Everyone folds their hand different so having good awareness is one of your best qualities as a dealer.
That's how i see it
Since slow rolls are encouraged on this particular stream, this is par for the course. I've seen enough Max Pain Mondays; it's almost like a home game. What Sashimi did was fine.
Every stream game on Hustler is a home game. Lol
Yeah she's a real class act. I would have berated her probably with racial slurs and probably been banned permanently. Thankgod for online poker!
@@Glastokilmao bro you you’re the absolute last person that we as Asians, care about. Limitless jokes come to mind just from your profile picture alone. You’d be better off staying quiet.
@@Mooshoo23 Okay I'll change it tonight to suit your expectations of formality and proper presentation.
@@Mooshoo23 There I changed my profile picture just for you that's as good as my ugly face gets goodbye for Life.
Great video Jonathan.
Glad you enjoyed it
If Tommy is not experienced or good then why slowroll him? He lost the pot and left . He night have been quite happy to continue playing if Sashimi hadn't been an idiot.
Because that’s the point of the stream, it’s called max pain Monday which means a lot of people slow roll and angle it’s all expected
@@passiongaming7450 ah. Fair enough
don’t agree with this: it’s “Max Pain Monday“ and this kind of behavior is encouraged and expected. This is entertainment TV not quiet back room Poker.
And look! We are talking about it -- successful entertainment TV
tbh I would've left or switched table after that double angle shoot
idk, if there's anywhere in the poker world all this is acceptable, it's Max Pain Monday.
Her hand should be live, but she should be warned and told to stop messing around like that
As played in this worse than home game setup rulewise, hand is live.
Although, if it went in the muck even a bit (as to make it unclear if when retrieving the cards its the same 2 cards), or if the dealer actually cought the "folding hand" thsn i would argue the hand is dead. Again, since the game is played like it is that day i would argue all goes and ppl should know that beforehand.
I've seen this happen many times, usually as long as the cards didn't actually hit the muck pile, the dealer had allowed them to take them back
Getting reads when you know the cards is very easy. There is no way on earth you would have thought anyone would risk their hand being folded by throwing their cards across the betting line and probably would have said so if she was bluffing, when they have the nuts. It takes someone who has seen the angle, is familiar with the rules and has probably seen it several times and likely does it regularly. You need to be in a similar position to recognize it as a premeditated angle.
In most casinos, only chips going over the line counts as a completion of an action. The cards can be anywhere as long as the player didn't say fold and/or give them to the dealer.
Does anyone know why Tommy had any hand equity at all after the flop? Said he had 4% and then 2%
It must be for the chop, not the win, as there are 2 Jacks left to split it. He has no way to win outright.
hand is live, cards have to hit the muck, when people throw cards forward, dealer responsibility to grab cards quickly and avoid situations where someone realises something about their hand either themselves or because of sideline comments.
varies casino to casino but yeah betting line doesn't actually mean much enforcability wise
it's on the dealer to clarify action, calls folds all ins etc
Its just Sashimi being Sashimi 🤣
I think the words ' Party Game ' form the basis of any ruling or thinking. Plenty of home games or even regulated games have a Mulligan component. Every now and then someone at our home game will throw the cards in instead of chips and immediately explain- most of us allow the cards to go back to the player - but there is still some angst when they win the pot
Dead Hand Depends. Oklahoma is the Only Place i've Played where they're STRICK oN the Line. i Crossed it with a Hand Full of Chips but Only Dropped 1/2 Dealer & Players told Me We Cool this Time but here if those Chips Cross All those Chips are the Bet.
1.ruling question: she should be warned by the floor that throwing your cards towards muck won't be allowed going forward (if you want your hand to not be counted as dead). as they didn't touch the muck here her hand is allowed to be kept. either way, dealer needs floor to show up right in the middle of this hand to do this ruling. here i'm in a vacuum (not assuming she already does this routinely, which is probably likely. angle shooters aren't statistically likely to have been created the second we see one hand by them).
You know this was max pain Monday? Where slow rolling is encouraged?
hahahaha Sashimi is really awesome, this was incredibly entertaining to watch. Also, as a poker dealer myself I appreciate her antics at the end w/ what appears to be the dealers tip. This must be a super fun game to deal hahaha
She's a terrible person, heard it from multiple sources who play with her
The ultimate pain for limping suited shit, playing fishy, and not seeing the way she was extracting more from you by acting scared.
She plays all the time and knows what’s she’s doing. If she were a rec player, I’d view it different, but she’s a pro at angling.
I dont know that id call that an angle... It was some intense reverse tells but thats not an angle. He could have called the floor, but he didnt want her to fold
@@blaqshiep4920 floor wouldn't have done shit
That's as dead a hand as any hand that ever died.
I would say the 6 on the river makes it so much harder to chop given the additional chop scenarios.... great play by sushimi
How would it be harder to chop with more chop possibilities? Makes no sense.
It doesn't, meant to say fold, not chop.
Whether the “betting line” on the felt means anything depends on the house rules. In a game where the rule is that any bet that crosses the line is a committed action, her hand should be dead. In most games it’s not run that way, and she didn’t say anything, so as long as she grabs her cards back her hand would be live.
It is an angle shot for sure though.
Brutal! But that’s max pain!
The hand is live until the dealer grabs the cards
That mucking action is so wrong. If I was the dealer I'd need to call the tournament director.
I think you'd have a very confused tournament director wondering why he was being called to rule on a cash game
Hahaha Tik Tok Tommy looks devastated
While I think some players and possibly some dealers would say her hand was mucked, I think if we are going on intent here she clearly did not intend to knock her cards forward her hands followed directly behind them right away. I would not call her hand dead, Play on!
No she threw them forward intentionally. Those cards are dead. She loses a hand at my table trying to steal cards from the muck
@@NMaster-lp8yz well no the cards did not touch the "muck" the discards. I see now she did toss the cards and in the same motion grabbed them back. She did not say fold and the dealer did not touch the cards, potentially the other player could call the floor but that's not happening in this situation. I should have said it's clear she had no intention of folding here though she's clearly physically making motions before she can consciously wrangle in her motions.
Dealer here: I touch them you have like one second of grace. Muck is when they are dead.
Every card room has different rules for instances like these and even still one manager may rule different than the other. He could have asked for a ruling but why would you when you have a boat.
Gotta say, watching her put me on mega tilt. Lord knows how annoying she would be to play against. Don't think I could
The initial bet when she bet, pulled back and bet more shouldn’t have counted as it’s a string bet, unless announced and she is filling the announcement.
Once she mucked the cards, that is a fold, can’t pull them back.
Only reason this got through is because his hand was so strong, he wanted to keep her “bluffs” in
Slow roll is fine since MPM, but the chip grabbing and OBVIOUSLY throwing the cards then grabbing them , should have been called dead immediately. Then to not even say anything to him as he leaves, nah she has a terrible attitude.
It's a home game atmosphere it's fine and if you asked tommy he wouldn't want her to fold
The early antics are fine, but once she moves her cards forward that far. Hand over
The thing about reading Sashimi here is that JJ absolutely MUST be in your range for her. Which means you're screwed. There's no way to find a fold, and no way to play it that won't lose you big.
These hands happen and the point is to win enough the rest of the time to make this a tiny blip on the radar.
Shoulda folded pre
JJ loses to QQQ66 (JJJQQ) which makes QJ the only combination that Tommy should fear. Cooler
What a stupid question... It's that betting line half of her stack is in the pot.
dealer didnt touch. no muck
Very clearly a live hand in this game.
A better question would be what would the ruling be if opponent had mucked or exposed his hand because of it.
Understanding the context of the game is important. They are encouraged to act a fool up in here... however, the fold is out of line, and her hand should be dead. If we look past that, the slow roll is fine BUT the way she just reached for the chips and splash them her way is just bad etiquette, regardless of the context. I wouldn't play with a person like that ever again
depends on what expectations have already been set
Normally ud go broke in that situation but with all the talk from sashimi i would second guess myself n fold.
The kid took it like a champ.
I regulary host a game at home, say twice a week. Even though it is all fun and games and laughs all around we do play like gentleman. That said, this ofcourse is my game and i make up the rules and make them clear to everybody. we have agreed that a move like that for example is a very much a fold. Also, a bet is a bet and after that, you just cant keep adding more to your bet unless you have anounced it previous to the actual action of putting in the chips (binding verbal anouncement)
But sometimes when things go little bit off (not like in this video) the table will reason about it and comes to a consensus. I guess that's the most important thing to have at a table.
Whenever the table turns to me about an issue i tell them the exact ruling and reason and then that's what's happening.
If u run the game as the floor and they are ur rules then their shouldn't be anyone else chiming in on what should be done, especially folks effectively taking a vote. The rules are the rules, and the house enforces the rules. If ur playing in a game then someone else should deemed the floor that isn't at that table to make the ruling in accordance with the rules. Otherwise, if the rules are bent to favor a situation someone is gonna do that in the future and say "well u all let it go last time".
Just my point of view. And I have ran a poker game. Even a small home needs rules and structure, otherwise it just becomes the wild west and folks will be making up shit as they go along.
If the dealer doesn't take it, it's still live.
I guess you're right it's a party game, but where the line what isn't acceptable
Depending on a casino… some places hand will be declared dead and other not. Depending on in house rules and how closely they follow official rules.
Good question, my first reaction was that's a fold. But, it is a betting line and not a folding line. Tried to figure why she did that...
PS. Tommy having the queen was not a blocker. Still having the blocker issues...
It's not even really a betting line. She has 2 stacks that are across the line as is.
I think these max pain Mondays are stupid for this reason (and many others). But at these stakes she should know her hand could be ruled dead. I guess that's just part of that game but in any regular game anywhere most houses and casinos are going to be very strict on things that can alter action. If you're messing with your cards pushing them forward and back and whatever it's usually nothing but a clear motion forward and letting go of your hand is almost always going to be a fold. Imagine her opponent saw that and mucked his cards. The thing is if a room gets lenient on people doing things that can alter action then they become another layer of strategy. I know my cards aren't going to be considered dead if I chuck them over the betting line so I'm gonna take a risk free shot at getting an advantage. Maybe my opponent flips over what he has and I see it beats and tell him "nice hand" or I see it doesn't beat me and I pull my cards back and go "just kidding". Maybe his cards hit the muck and I reach over and pull mine back or it's a multiway pot and I get the guy next to me to act as if I folded then after he calls I pull my cards back in and take down a three way pot. There's a lot of ways this can go good for you and if it's a room that's wishy washy about their rules then there aren't many ways it can go bad. So it's a risk free strategy to gain a small edge which of course can be a lot of money
It's max pain monday, so any amount money lost shouldn't matter enough to tilt you. If it does, then it's too big of a game to play in, even if it's in all fun. The game was created to draw max pain, but in reality, the money shouldn't matter, so it's not the pain of losing any amount of money. The real theme of the game is to bring max fun, that means the game should not be too emotional that it tilts you literally. That's just my opinion.
And Sashimi is one of the biggest reason why Max Pain Monday is such great success, is because of her antics on the Monday game.
Hand is live. Her take-back was immediate, so no action taken in response to her move and no question about which were her cards. I would be very surprised if any floor ruled her hand was dead, even not in "max pain" game.
Try that at a Canadian casino it's instant dead
@@Loseinpoker this isn't Canada. And she didn't say fold.
The way she grabbed his chips is just rude, no respect, got dealt a huge cooller and acted like she is best poker player at the table, unpleasant personality
The cards aren't dead until they're in the muck or the dealer has them.
Max Payne Monday means you can needle and slow roll but you still can’t angle shoot, that was ridiculous, and people will continue to push the line on Mondays until it is cheating adjacent
Slow rolls are encouraged on max pain monday. This is a GREAT slow roll not the worst.
It’s “max pain Monday” … They Incentivize this kind of action… I don’t blame her at all.
Thats a great way to take a stacke.
Play on. The opponent did not challenge, and played on. So no one should call this dead hand.
In south dakota her hand would not be folded. You have to have fold intention and the dealer has to pull it into the dead pile/muck.
Same here in North Dakota.
MPM but this is freakin’ ridiculous how she plays. It’s way past loose and fun.
That was painful to watch! 😢
This live needs her. That’s it.
If the cards don't hit the muck, it is not dead.
cards never hit the muck, were easily identifiable and retrievable...
All good, the line is for chips
Hand is Live
Most places, if the hand can be recovered it can still be played.
That's not a slow roll, that's a Sashimi roll....
I can tell why none of you ever get invited to juicy home games.
The line is just there for decoration there's no betting line.
nice "post oak bet" comment, been a long time since i heard anybody use that phrase. not super system long ago, but seems close (i'm not actually old enough such to have been alive when super system came out, so can't be as long as i might be making it seem).
By the rules, this is a fold - quite clearly. If we want to discuss this, it might be important to check what hand she had and see, if it makes sense, that she could accidentally fold that hand. But no way. This is simply an angle.
Maaaaaybe in this line up it’s okay. But they play for real money. And she could be goofy with other stuff.
If it was her first time - give here a penalty. If she do it again, hand is folded.
Hands not dead, unless Tommy wanted it dead he has to call the floor. But he didn't want the fold so didn't.
Wow, what a jerk/mean person she is. Splashing all his chips into her stack after slow rolling then says, I win right smh
This is a format where the players are encouraged to act kinda silly.
I’m realizing through watching poker that Pre flop - and the flop are the most important streets in poker
No!
If he hand isn't dead here then what is the point of making rules in poker?
Honestly this move could have caused tommy to muck his hand and cost her all the money on the river.
Her hand is live. She clearly did not intend to bet and then fold before the other player acted.
Hand still live didn't touch the muck and she didn't declare an action
Sashimi, an example of seeing beauty thats only skin deep. Come try that shit in Dallas at my table. Stuff like this gets you robbed outside the casino or card room.
I mean technically, he could have made a stink about it and got a ruling and it might have been called a fold... However! He had a full house and didnt want her to fold. Obviously cant say anything after he sees her cards, so it almost doesnt matter. 9/10 casinos let the players call the floor to get a ruling, even if it is against the rules
Clearly the answer is "B". Nothing should happen to her hand. Her cards didn't hit the muck. Even if the DID hit the much, if the cards can be clearly identified as hers, and she wants them back, she would be afforded the opportunity to retrieve them. It's max pain Monday, she's just doing the same thing as speech play.
"games incentivized to be casual". never heard that phrase uttered previously but i think i get the gist of it. anything to get viewers right. short term profit thinking right for the site running it (clicks etc). other than outright cheating/theft (which hustler and the addelstein thing recently had an issue with), i can't really think of anything worse for the future of poker than this stuff here. fake mucks, slow rolls, whatever. who exactly do these people willing to mortgage the future (i'm guessing to get famous) of poker think this turns off long term for poker: good players or bad ones? good ones can handle slow rolls and other stuff like this (most of them anyway). bad ones, the very ones you want in the game for as long as possible, those are the types that might not like being used as some sort of whipping bag and probably don't take it well to be made to look like a fool for the fun of the others (first time i saw an angle shoot this literally happened, worst player at the table left in less than 5 minutes, have no idea if that was long term the case, but point remains, was victim of angle shoot, to which majority of the table yucked it up when the reg did it to him, even as a relative neophite this didn't seem good or smart by anybody involved, including the dealer). you don't have to respect your opponents (and i'm quite sure you'll run into some that aren't worthy of it, whether ethically, intellectually, or otherwise), but pretending to surely is better for your long term bottom line as a long term poker player than not. act like a decent human being to the other humans playing in the game, you WANT them coming back (esp the bad at poker ones), for a long as possible (pretend you are a casino, what do you think they want to do). preaching long term equity to humans that just want short term ego gratification is a lost cause likely. i'm done.
in your own games, to dodge slow rolls, just hold your cards till it's your turn to show your hand; the longer the attempted slow roller wastes everybody's time (esp those not in the hand who only should want to get on to the next hand, and the house who should also want to get onto the next raked hand, time is money for them, literally) the more they'll get socially engineered to not waste everybody's time so they can dip themselves into the pond of torturing their opponents for fun.
Is Sashimi Chinese? She said "$400" in Chinese on the turn. I always thought she was Japanese.
Also given the nature of the game I think it's fine to take your hand back if the dealer hasn't touched it yet.
live-private game different rules
That was a dead hand for sure.
Wow this is how people get injured
Sashimi is the worst ,horrible , poker player i have ever seen. Superficially she acted really nice to you but she would take every cent of u. Those shallow fellows got played by her nearly every time. People should have noticed that whenever she made the bet by throwing her chips allover the place that was when she got a monster or nuts.
In THIS game her hand is live. The line doesn't play.
I’d say hand is live since she took them back right away and she didn’t say the word fold. And it’s max pain Monday. They do shit like that all the time
Regardless, of the game....that is NEVER EVER A FOLD. Only if announced or if it is unretrievable from the muck. Why do people continue to bring this up, or ask this question? It's not a fold. Another instance, is SIGNIFICANT action behind, resulting from the "fold."
Her hand is dead. Tommy should have called her, but he thought he had the nuts.
I changed my mind. She does the toss and then says to the dealer, "not yet?" and grabs them back. So not only did she look like she was folding, but she did it out of turn. Two etiquette rule broken. I don't know what the rules are here. However, these Max-pain games get out of line so often, I now agree with you.
It’s an angle but hand 🤚 is live from my experience
At the Casino I play at, That Hand would be Mucked. And if I was in the hand I would demand it would be.
She is speaking Mandarin at start of video and also to Timmy during the hand