Sectarian Infighting and the Fall of Jerusalem (Tisha Bav 5781 2021)
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- A brief overview of the major groups involved in the struggle to control Jerusalem in the first Roman-Jewish war, culminating in the destruction of the Temple. Lecture prepared for the Young Israel of Lawrence-Cedarhurst to commemorate Tisha B'Av.
Recommended Reading: Josephus, The Jewish War: A new translation by Martin Hammond Oxford University Press, 2017.
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I love listening to you and enjoy your history lectures. Thank you.
I’m absolutely wowed Professor.
Your vintage is of the highest quality and just keeps getting better and better. May we merit to see the Beit HaMikdash restored in our lifetime bim’hera v’yameinu Amein.
Thanks for the kind words--I'm glad you found the lecture meaningful.
Amen
@@HenryAbramsonPhD Hi Dr. Abramson. Could you explain why the royalty of the kingdom of Adiabene has a palace in Jerusalem and there relation to the Jewish state and the Herodians and Hasmoneans. Why there is another royal family living in Jerusalem aside from the Hasmoneans and Herodeans. Adiabene is a vassal of Parthia very weird for them to live in Jerusalem in Judea a Roman vassal.
I came across your channel the other day, and I have been enjoying your videos since. Keep it going, you are helping people like me. 🙌
I appreciate that!
Thank you for your teaching and service.
Glad you found this video meaningful
This was a brilliant lecture !!
Dr. Abramson really is - not as member of a group, as a person - a light to the world !
It's frightening how much the in-fighting and hate reminds me of what is happening in the USA today (and in other places as well). Why can we never learn from history?
PS: excellent presentation.
It happens everywhere. The world still hasn’t learned that moderation in everything (including politics & religion) is the key to happy life. Maybe we’ll never learn 😢
Because the people don’t fear God.
God delivers the nations to their destruction.
My thoughts everyday. I think it’s because people don’t know history, in depth. They just hear the stories and say they know lol
These two lectures by Rabbi Henry Abramson have been Awesome for me, I am now understanding so much more about things that were not clear to me about that period of Hebrew History.
Thanks to you I have a much clearer understanding of some things that I have been questioning for some time now.
Much Blessings Rabbi Abramson.
Glad you found the lectures useful!
Amazing presentation professor! The spirit of the Jewish people still endures and the temple will be rebuilt!
Shalom David amen 🙏🏻
Not over our Mosque it won’t!!! You shouldn’t even be in Palestine in your current numbers! You were fine when you were our peaceful respectful neighbours until your secular Jewish nationalists came to murder and massacre and occupy!!! Arabic is a Semitic language and the Arabs are semites and many are direct descendants of Ismael عليه السلام ! You are forbidden to have a state of your own because you are in excile!! If you knockdown our Mosque that is not just connected to Abraham but it’s also the place from where our Prophet ascended on his night journey then there will be war again except this time Muslims from all over the world will sign up! Muslims from Afghanistan,Pakistan, India, Chechnya, Indonesia, Malaysia Bangladesh and Iran thereby uniting the Sunnis and Shia under a common cause! You won’t have a chance ! It is our third holiest mosque and you have zero right whilst we have every right because we didn’t knock your temple down! You did that yourselves!
Where will it be rebuilt? The Dome of the Rock is going nowhere, at least in most people's lifetime.
Thanks so much Dr. Abramson!
thank you dr Abramson for your time and expertise.
Thank you SO MUCH for sharing this on You Tube.❤️🙏✡️🕎
Thank you for the great lectures. I would like to hear some history on Mizrahi Jews.
Thank you for this lecture. Thoroughly appropriate for the day. יישר כחכם.
Thank you for the information Dr Abramson
Thank you!
Thank you very much
I read in Josephus that there were supernatural signs the year before the destruction of the 2nd temple.
I think someone saw an army of angels in the sky and some strange occurences inside the sanctuary. Look up the 7 signs of Josephus and you can see how God warned the Jews about the coming destruction.
I feel alot of sympathy for you and your nation because you suffered so much. May God bring peace and redemption to you soon. 🥰🌹
Thanks for the fascinating lecture.
Henry, you're trying your hardest to pull off the Emil Schürer look and it's working even 120 years later! I would appreciate a video on the prophets' examination of why we would go into exile. An understanding of their thinking might be more insightful and probably less infused with terms of modern day politics.
This is a great lecture Professor. Sorry I missed the live stream. Had a prior commitment.
Next time!
@@HenryAbramsonPhD I am going on a pilgrimage to my holy place next weekend and will not be back in time to participate. (Goin hiking in the mountains).
Thanks for the very comprehensive and detailed history. Just one point regarding Josephus. Since you often noted questions as to how reliable his reporting is, it should be noted that the greatest Jewish scholars down through the ages have repeatedly cited claims from his history as fact, without indicating any doubts as to their veracity. Even though he describes Titus as a far more decent figure than the brutal general and Emperor that is depicted in the Talmud, they apparently attributed this to two factors: a) his understanding that a failure to do so would have made it impossible for him to record this entire history, which he felt was vitally important for Jewish history and the lessons to be learned from it, and indeed it turned out to be the only firsthand Jewish account we have of that era; b) he looked at the broader picture of warfare standards and viewed Titus not as a vicious anti-Semite who sought to crush Israel and kill Jews, but rather as a renowned general who was bogged down in battle with Judea longer than with any other nation and suffered immense losses in his efforts to capture Jerusalem, and consequently (as was customary in warfare then and is sadly even existent in our times) too bitter revenge when he finally defeated them. Had they followed the advice of Rabbi Yochanan ben Zakai, hundreds of thousands of Jewish lives, and perhaps even the Temple, could have been saved. In any case, none of our great sages suggested that he was a traitor, and the great halachic giant Rabbi Joel Sirkis (1561-1640), known as the "Bach," writes that one can gain morality and fear-of-God from reading Josephus' historic tome - presumably because he shows that the failure to follow the Torah laws and heed the opinions of the Sages, and cruelty of Jew against Jew were prime contributors to the Temple's destruction and the Jewish exile, as well as showing that zealotry that is based on cruelty and arrogance leads to destruction. [I should add that my late father was a great halachic scholar, as well as a brilliant analyst and student of history, and most of what I wrote here is presumably grounded in what I managed to absorb from him over 45 years.]
Can't wait.
same.
Steve, how are you?
@@mikaYael mika, who is Maajid Navaz?
Shalom everybody
Thanks
Hello Prof.
Greetings from Modiin!
Enjoying many of your lectures, every year around 9 Av somehow a video comes up on my feed, claiming that the temple wasn’t on the Temple Mount, that was all a Roman Fortress, and it was in a different location, closer to “Ir David”, lower down. There, there was a massive Mikvah, needed for throngs. I was wondering if you could comment and perhaps prepare a lecture?
no more infighting, and people of all faiths have the right to access and pray on the Temple Mount in my opinion without violence
Excellent presentation and clarity. Thank you. Sad history where calmer minds did not prevail and radicals caused such harm and destruction. Lessons for our times.
Thank you.
Hi Dr. Abramson. Could you explain why the royalty of the kingdom of Adiabene has a palace in Jerusalem and there relation to the Jewish state and the Herodians and Hasmoneans. Why there is another royal family living in Jerusalem aside from the Hasmoneans and Herodeans. Adiabene is a vassal of Parthia very weird for them to live in Jerusalem in Judean a Roman vassal.
Thank you for a real education ! Question , has anyone given thought to the possibility that some or all of the infighting in the city was directed by Roman agents ?
The Romans took their time attacking Jerusalem precisely because of the infighting....
*"When your enemy is destroying itself....do not stop THEM."*
Thanks for this lesson Dr Abramson. The question I have is if the Idumeans are still alive today
The factionalism in Jerusalem at the time of the second temple's destruction severely weakened the ability of the Jews to withstand the onslaught of the Romans. Unfortunately, for Jerusalem, the Flavians were a very competent dynasty and Rome's army was at the peak of its fighting prowess. It was only a matter of time.
I’m so proud of Jews that prayed at TEMPLE MOUNT it belongs to Israel 🇮🇱
❤
You mentioned the last sacrifice near the end of you presentation. Why are sacrifices no longer happening?
Starting now!
Hope you find it worthwhile!
How does the Temple made of stone burn down? Was there anything equivalent to Greek
fire that accelerated the burning down of the Temple? Respectfully submitted, as I have the most respect for your erudition and scholarly presentation. Todah
The Second Temple didn't collapse or anything. It was burned out, not down. All the wooden contents (and there are many, just look up the instructions in the Bible) were destroyed, as was the entire Holy of Holies. After the destruction of the Temple, Titus actually marched in his troops in a mini-Triumph and erected his eagles over the Temple portico, so the structure itself was still standing at this time. It was in fact still standing during the bar Kochba revolt and Rabbi Akiva visited it then. The Temple structure was only taken down when it was converted into a Roman temple after the end of the bar Kochba revolt.
Very well told, however impossible to ignore reverberations of this today, with particular significance to those of us who eschew religion for exactly the reasons you have talked about, but even more so as we see reverberations of this absence of authority in secular Jewish society and hence, the absence also of an ethical compass with which to resolve the conflict with Palestinians. The idea that Jews of all credes and colours will somehow come together under a single banner (the Tikkun Olam, that ushers in an age of peace) seems very unlikely. I deem it more likely that what is left of the temple will be destroyed as a consequence of the stubbornness and corruption that still exists today.
Regardless of what is said about the followers of R. Yeshua - they were correct in fleeing Jerusalem x2 and R. Akiba was massively incorrect about Bar Kochba being the Mashiach.
National bad luck day lol. Thank again for your thoughts!
Is it fair to say that if not for the zealots and other extremists,the temple would have remained standing and the course of Jewish history would have been much changed for the better?Something to keep in mind both in the United States and in Israel.
*"What doesn't kill you....makes you weaker."*
-Jewish History
You know Jesus said the temple would be destroyed yes?
@@bpeper1365 Was just thinking that..Thanks.
Israel 🇮🇱 I love you forever 🇺🇸❤️🇮🇱🙏🏻💯
You have good humor. Have you heard this one:
Albeit the early bird gets the worm, it is the 2nd rat that gets the cheese.
Thanks!
That is a new one to me!
What happened in Jerusalem at that time is this zacchariah 11.
ANNOTATIONS PLEASE.
I had heard that the Zealots burnt the stores to force the Jews to fight actively against the Romans, but you are saying it was infighting among various factions fo the Zealots, and the rest were too unimportant to be considered by them as they fought among the factions. Hatred after hatred.
Khag Ha Eliyahu Shlomim.
Sir, do you know that the Pope just restricts the use of Old Latin Mass on this sorrowful day? After the pandemic, comes the Famine? God of Israel be with you!
No worries. All signs point to the coming of the messiah. Let us all repent and commit to helping our fellow man to bring King Moshiach!
@@AirborneTrojan Not so quick! Who can come after the Christ (=Messiah), but the Antichrist? It’s Islam + Communism. Europe will be Muslim; USA, Communist.
@@tyh3120You will be sooo surprised...
lol. The disgusted Romans were "disgraced."
"Cunning over Valor' "Desperation over Weapons" "Mass over Expertise" "Judeans over Romans" such a shameful situation for the blood thirsty, power hungry Romans, lol ! Another great historic lecture..."V'ahavta L'reacha Kamocha."
Learning a lot 🙏 we where so blood hungry. That is why G-d took the Temple and the Country from us. What a shame
Volume too low
It's totally impossible to not make backhanded complement to Josephus.
Not much has changed then ...
All too similar today
I personally believe Josephus created the character Paul that mirrored his own travels and corrupted the original epistles. As well I believe he personified the WORD of God. The WORD being present throughout the bible...."And the WORD came to Ezekiel....the WORD came to Jeremiah....etc. and we know the spirit of holiness has always been in the Jewish Bible. I John 5:7 states there are 3 that bear witness, the father, his WORD, and his spirit and these 3 are one. The two olive trees of Jeremiah pouring oil into the candlestick represents the anointed WORD and spirit of God not a human being until it dwells within us. Thus the statement in the Christian bible, "the christ (annointed word and spirit) IN YOU (light of the world) is the hope of glory. Josephus personified the WORD as the character of Jesus (false messiah) which really should be Emmanuel when the WORD is formed in all of us then we too are called Emmanuel. The gospels are pure allegory but most cant understand deep allegory as it mirrors the types in the Tanak. The father, the Son (israel) and the gentile bride. All become one in purpose and family. Unfortunately the truth got heavily corrupted as well by Josephus who I think edited the whole Christian bible leading to heresy of god-man worship to appease the Flavians who wanted thier pagan doctrines inserted. This is my current belief but I'm still studying. Thanks for your great videos.
That's a little hard to believe..
Interesting: a lot of new details. U take only a polite "theologically correct" stand to not interpret it(the Event) but...by an analogy to St.Faustyna Kowalska prophecies in her diary before WWII regarding the fate of Warsaw (contrary to Wilno and Cracov) such interpretation are not a fiction (when we(I) know now the historical events behind the decision of Warsaw Uprising, a foolish military contrary to original plans(very reasonable, but...- a very learning a theological lesson) . All Gospels are written from such a theological point of view (analogical to OT and Prophets; some interpret the same ways the fate of Athens after the murder of Socrates.
Great Amazing presentation, However...I kinda cringe when You called the early Jewish followers of Yeshu/Jesus "christians" when in fact they were called the "Nazerenes/Netzarim" a smaller group of them were called "Ebionim/Ebionites", The predominant majority of both these Jewish groups were Essenes and Pharisees...Christianity as an established religion was created by the council of nicea.
“…Christianity as an established religion was created by the Council of Nicea.
“ well, technically, yes in that “established” means “governmentally officially recognized.” However, the core beliefs of Christianity are clearly existing well before the end of the first century. The isolation of the Netzarim from the Christians and the the Jewish community was an evolution, not an act of Nicea, though decisions at Nicea, made reconciliation pretty much impossible.
The term Christian appears way before Nicea. This very channel gives an account of the gradual separation between Christians and Jews.
🤣...🤔...you attribute the fall of the 2nd temple to people who didn't act right at a wedding party?
...🤔...there was another Jew that told you it was going to happen and why.
...🤔...even gave specific instructions on how to survive it.
🤔...didn't listen to HIM though.
Do you not know, that if they had listened to HIM, the whole ROMAN EMPIRE would have been given to the temple mount on a Golden Platter.
...🤣...nah...they would have had to let go of the silver coins they had!
They didn't listen
The Jews themselves are not allowed to change so much as a jot or tittle of the Law. "Trust the people of Israel. If they are not prophets, they are the sons of prophets." If Christians want to get on the same page, they are welcome. But an exposure to Hebrew would help. Forget the talk about Testaments. Salvation is of the Jews.
Jesus clearly prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem, as did Jeremiah. Both events were the result of YHWH’s wrath being poured out up ‘a stiffnecked’ people. Jesus, the King of the Jews, had been murdered by the religious Jewish hierarchy. Jeremiah, The Weeping Prophet, suffered at the hands of the political leadership.
Nevertheless Isaiah 9, declares ‘unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given & the government shall be upon his shoulders’……
……Not upon the Orthodox, the religious descendants of the Pharisees which killed The Messiah. Not the secular Jews which provoke YHWH daily with their abhorrent conduct. And, not the Kabbalist Jews which have returned to a contemporary form of Baal worship. But, rather those who out of a pure heart seek YHWH in spirit & truth.
Did somebody else say that 2000 years ago to Samaritan woman?
Can it yet be that Psalm 37:11 will be fulfilled? “The meek shall inherit the earth”…..? And, the ‘meek’ will be those referred to in Isaiah 53:1? …….those who believed the report of the messianic Jewish followers of the carpenter from Nazareth?
Two different Holy Temples. Two different 9th of Avs. In Jesus' time, there were two competing religious groupings. The Pharisees were proto-rabbinic. But the "official" religious leadership, priesthood, Sadducees - were pro-Roman, and allied with those collaborating with the Roman occupation, with Idumeans, Herodians, and even Pilate himself. It was the pro-Roman group which connived to kill Jesus, and succeeded.
There was idolatry at the end of the 2nd Temple, called the “Lamp of Helena”. The Jewish people where worshiping the Sun in what seems to have been the last two decades, until Hashem destroyed the now enemy Temple and wiped out the disgrace. That's at least what I could figure out so far. Hillel the Elder and his sons are guilty over it, Hillel is also guilty over overturning the Torah with the prozbul, and modern Rabbinical Judaism still worships Hillel, and therefore still hasn't repented (Teshuva) from the whole affair, and hence they will remain in exile until they are either doing Teshuva, or they will be destroyed (sorry), or be thrown out of Israel once it Redeems itself and does Teshuva (I guess). Pretty simple, basically.
It also shows that the “sin” was big enough, it was literally a re-dedication of the 2nd Temple to the Sun. Israel at that time was apparently already so corrupt, that they where no longer able to record the world of their wiser men, who probably where there as they always are. Israel made things worse step by step ever since, and of particular note here is the traitor Maimonides / Rambam, who made up the heter iska, which is a similar lie. All has to do with money, it is greed over justice. Sorry if you don't like to hear it. A counter argument would be welcome, silence will be taken as an admission of guilt.
You can even go to little things about Hillel and see why it is lies. For example it is claimed he would have been a prophet if that generation had merited it. How about all the prophets of Israel who come to Israel, and Israel does nothing but oppose the Torah, even down to sacrificing babies ? Yet they still had prophets. How serious the offense is, and how deeply Rabbinical Judaism is a system of treason, becomes apparent when you hear this shocking news: the Temple Institute dared to remake the Lamp of Helena, and wants to dedicate a 3rd Temple in Yerushalayim, to their Sun idol (!).
I guess we now see some reason for why things like wedding shenanigans are offered up as reasons for the loss of the 2nd Temple, because it is a distraction from the grievous activities of Hillel and his sons, by dedicating the 2nd Temple to the Sun, and overthrowing the Torah with the prozbul. Apparently the game is to keep that hidden, but they had to come up with something. Is it really that vicious ? I don't know, but probably for some it was. To proof that this makes sense, we see endless ongoing exile for Israel, and I think that can only mean one thing: Israel is consistently, every day, recreating the exile from scratch. Nothing can last this long, not a single event over so many generations. In how many generations would Hashem forgive, maybe 3 if I recall ? Something is constantly recreating the exile, and I guess this could be it: the fraud of the prozbul, which is a sign that the Torah is overthrown, turning the Beit Din (house of Justice) into a gang of criminals who is stealing the loan money on behalf of the law breaker.
Even though someone could argue “what does a Sun reflector even matter …”, if you combine it with the prozbul, the thing takes on a different “light”. You don't care, nobody cares, that much has been obvious over the many years so far (well ok, 13 years or so), but it is Game Over time on Earth (anyone notice the nukes pointing everywhere? the pollution, the corruption, the directionless politics?). Last time Israel was punished by the Nazis, the next time will be 7 times worse, as per the punishment section in the Torah. How often I have written this, I don't know, dozens and dozens. If you take 7 times a third out of the Jewish population (the Nazis took about a third), you end up with a 95% death rate for the second holocaust, which may already be underway. Such are your choices. You can either dare to do Teshuva, finally, or you could work up the courage to face this second holocaust. Both probably require a sense of courage, because Israel is going to fight against you if you turn to the truth, the Rabbis probably first and foremost, as they defend their phoney sages Hillel (prozbul, idolatry) and Rambam /Maimonides (heter iska).
But alas, everything is “worship” everything is “subjugation to authority” and so the minds are blank, logic is nowhere to be found, decadence is raging high, and we got cars and meat so who cares about anything. Don't come to me after and say nobody warned you, or showed a way out of the mess - and a mess it will be, count on it. Probably someone will take offense to this, although I don't know who even reads a serious argument anymore, but if you like the Torah laws (on finance and other), how can you not be outraged about the prozbul. I write this, so that you can help yourself, because a lot of people don't even seem to know about this Rabbinical treason going on, right under their noses. You want to die with Rabbinical Judaism ? You think this isn't serious ? Just sit tight and await verdict from heaven, I guess. Have no fear ! That's how you've lived, no ? Don't fear heaven, it's not serious ? Then you got something new to fear: the raging mobs of the gentiles. Is it an improvement for you ? I guess not.
Sorry but it seemed interesting history, but it's really Roman oriented. The Zealots are like hooligans ? How do we even know, nothing survives from that time. They may have been quite a well organized army, who is to say ? They defeated the enemy. Hooligans in the eyes of Rome, who themselves are hooligans, so that means nothing. Romanized Judaism … Israel is caught between Romanized Judaism, and Romanized secularism, and all kinds of other shrapnel of history. It doesn't look good. When the dying starts in earnest, someone might understand why the above might show some concern or anger. I'm angry I guess, because you put yourselves in danger.