Question: Do you think police officers are taught how to manage stress or their emotions enough? For the full episode with Navy SEAL (DEVGRU), Andrew Sullivan, click here th-cam.com/video/21IDZ_Xf9HE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WZXKA6I1fTLcHrZh.
Not at all. I was involved in a suspect fleeing with a weapon a few years back. Nothing in my department training, despite my department trying, set me up for it. Maybe the only thing that I remembered was the fact it was a crowded street. I fell back mostly on my military training on react to contact. Fortunately my partner had a similar background. Ultimately it turned out OK, but I didn't feel like my police training had anything to do with my (our in this case) response.
What you guys are talking about isn’t necessarily the problem we Americans are seeing. It’s the cops that don’t care about our rights. They break our constitutional rights everyday. It’s a major issue in the U.S. I’m talking about the cops with a power trip and it’s a major problem. I’m seeing people being arrested for things they say. They get arrested for raising their voice. They go into peoples homes without a warrant. Sometimes they go in the wrong house. We never see an apology. We hear the same things. They went by the book. We get tired of seeing people arrested over petty things yet we see the courts release or not charge the ones who are violent. That is what we are sick of.
Police aren't trained enough! Period! It takes 2 years to become a beautician but a cop only gets a couple months. You don't know the laws and 99% of police don't even know what the first amendment is. You take an oath to the constitution but cops don't even know what it is.
The police academy did try to train stress management but I personally found that many officers would freeze up without direction in difficult situations.
Issue with Uvalde wasnt a moment of panic or making the wrong choice. It was that police were on the scene and did NOTHING for many minutes while kids were dying. They cant even say they tried.
Malum In Se/Malum Prohibitum Nothing moral requires authority. Authority is the claim to the exclusive exemption to morality. It is a monopoly on violence. Violence is a violation because it is the initiation of aggression, not self-defense. Offense/defense are ontologically distinct. All crime has a legal equivalent (ie, taxation is extortion). Every government is founded on Ad Baculum. Warren v. District of Columbia Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales DeShaney v. Winnebago County Lozito v. New York City You are legally compelled via the logical fallacies Ad Populum, Ad Baculum and Ad Verecundiam to pay for protection that they are not legally obligated to provide. That's a mafia. The highest Abrahamic value is Ignorance of Good and Evil. It's right there in Genesis. They worship Yaldabaoth, God of the Scapegoaters: God blames Man; Man blames Woman; Woman blames Serpent; Serpent blames God, more accurately - the Serpent defines God. God Condones Child Rape No.s 31: 17-18 God Condones Rape Deut. 22: 28-29 God Condones Abortion No.s 5: 11-31 Unquestioning Obedience to Government Rom.s 13: 1-7 Ritualistic classifying surgery as a means of psychic castration, like circumcision and sub-incision, are hallmarks of patriarchal culture, a demonstration to the young that the venerable old ones still wield the all-powerful knife - and the beginning of transsexualism. Those who do not perform the cult's rite can never enjoy full social status. Symbols of the castrated member, the tie and bow-tie, are mandatory accoutrements of the political wardrobe and phallic monuments are erected to commemorate the minds conquered long ago. Brute force is no longer necessary. The capitalist priest class of Psychiatry, working in tandem with the State bureaucracy, regulates and polices the new Restriction and gelding of desire. Psychiatrists, along with other legal arbiters, help to obscure justice with grey areas of intentionality, mental state, etc. Some mistake this as a system of Liberty, ignorant of the fact that Psychiatric Control is a cornerstone of the perfected Totalitarian State. All modern illnesses come from the absurd and tragic struggle of man's inability to bridle Nature. This dogma echoes perpetually, omnisciently by understanding voices in self-help books, billboards, radio commercials and television talk shows to convince the public to practice continual self-suppression and hormonal restraint. Any deviation is an indication of something severely wrong with the individual. Perhaps Lycanthropic Transformation Rites are in some way a Psychic Preparation for the millennial calamities that are thought to lie ahead. Legalism is a Language of Equivocations, a process of assimilation to violence and illogic. Etymology: government Gubernare: to control Mens/Mentis: mind culture Colere: to inhabit, to till Cult: collective mind -ure: process of civilize, etc. Civitas: city -ize: to do/to make like police, policy, politics, polite Polis: city authority Auctor: master, father, creator -ity: quality of religion Religare: to bind fast, to place an obligation on -ion: noun-forming suffix uniform Uni-: one Form: shape They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes. "Everything is metamorphosed into its opposite to perpetuate itself in its expurgated form. All the powers, all the institutions speak of themselves through denial, in order to attempt, by simulating death, to escape their real death throes. [...] For example: it would be interesting to see whether the repressive apparatus would not react more violently to a simulated holdup than to a real holdup. Because the latter does nothing but disturb the order of things, the right to property, whereas the former attacks the reality principle itself." - Jean Baudrillard (Simulacra & Simulation - 1981) "Our rulers, who rule our symbols, and so rule a symbolic class of life, impose their own infantilism on our instituitions, educational methods, and doctrines. This leads to maladjustment of the incoming generations which, being born into, are forced to develop under the un-natural (for man) semantic conditions imposed on them. In turn, they produce leaders afflicted with the old animalistic limitations. The vicious circle is completed; it results in a general state of human un-sanity, reflected again in our instituitions. And so it goes, on and on." - Alfred Korzybski (Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics - 1933) "I am a cosmopolitan." - Diogenes "If I could not be Alexander, I should wish to be Diogenes." - Alexander the Great "A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867) "It is incredible how as soon as a people become subject, it promptly falls into such complete forgetfulness of its freedom that it can hardly be roused to the point of regaining it, obeying so easily and willingly that one is led to say that this people has not so much lost its liberty as won its enslavement." - Étienne de la Boétie (Discours de la servitude volontaire ou le Contr'un - 1577) "Leadership in government is political power, and political power is an official form of antagonizing the people. Politics are rules imposed upon the people. They have every man in a straight jacket and without a passport he cannot move a toe. In a free world, they violate the natural rights of every citizen. They have become the weapons of political despots and if you don't think as they think you're deprived of your passport." - Michael Chaplin as Rupert Macabee (A King in New York - 1957) "Imagine, if you will, a world filled only with criminals of whom there are two classes: those too honest to rationalize their crimes and the powerful who scapegoat them." - Rod Serling "Eye have no Moral Obligation to ask permission from the person to whom Eye Morally Object if Eye may exercise mEye Moral Objection." - Unknown ^}^#}##{%%%
@jordon Absolutely! It was unadulterated cowardice. Lack of training had nothing to do with it. Parents who were attempting to rescue their children were being detained by those cowards. If only one officer is on scene you go in and engage/neutralize the threat. It appears the Seal is seeking future employment in police training.
Imagine if officers who responded later (after the initial active shooting had stopped) were told it had become a potential hostage situation had decided to breach a door that was possibly barricaded? If the shooter then decided not to take hostages and instead started killing before the door could be breached, you’d be here saying they caused more children’s deaths by trying to go in without proper planning and breaching equipment/explosives. Do you REALLY think hundreds of cops there, some with kids in the school, were all cowards? The initial officers responding while there was active shooting going on, and the worthless incident commander, yes, they were definitely cowards.
@@steveclark5206 Petitio Principii Moving the Goalposts Special Pleading Red Herring Ignoratio Elenchi And yet they all followed the same orders (Nuremberg Defense). Petitio Principii can and will be used against them. Etymology Uni-: one Form: shape They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes.
Biggest issue I’ve seen with high stress, high danger incidents is cops not previously accepting the fact they’re probably going to get shot. The Marine Corps taught me to accept this, push through the door and engage. It has helped dividends with my law enforcement career in being willing to be at the forefront of any incident. Even had to tell my wife that one day. If you can push past fear, you can handle almost anything.
Great points. Natural human reaction to extreme stress is supposed to be "fight or flight", but I think it's actually more often "turtle up" in shock. Can't register/believe this is really happening. It's a natural human reaction, but I believe you can (must) shake off that fog and tunnel vision. Literally scan left and right, and start talking to yourself: " This really IS happening! Move!!". I think moving helps break that "freeze" and fog. Even if it's a step or two in the wrong direction, you'll figure it out. If you stay put and do nothing, you're probably going to die (unless, of course, there is the need to stay behind good cover for the time being). Another good point is to mentally role play those situations beforehand, that way your brain has already "been there". Accept that in a knife fight you WILL be cut. In a gun fight you probably will be shot. If the shot didn't instantly incapacitate you (kill you), then you probably have a good chance of surviving. THEN make the "fight or flight" decision. But do SOMETHING!
First off-SEMPER-FI-brother. I did 4 deployments to go fight in Iraq ( I volunteered for all 4 tours,also did back-to-back tours )with the Texas Guard begining in mid-2004-till-all of-2005,I was in an infantry unit at Camp TQ ( TQ was a Marine FOB at that this time )there was also a-PRC-unit ( a marine reserve unit )our battalion was at TQ,but,our brigade was in another part of Iraq.We did raids,QRF,route-clearance,combat patrols,ECPs and some crazy fire-fights lasting 2/3 hrs. It wasn't no joke there,we had 12 KIAs and 8 severely wounded out of a battalion.With no replacements,so we had to use marines from the Prc unit.The Marines lost 8 of their people. I went to Iraq because I was bored from working my 2 full-time civilian jobs at that time,wanted to do something crazy and dangerous and I did. SEMPER-FI
I haven’t trusted a single cop since this happened. 376 officers there and the only thing they accomplished was to detain the parents who were actually trying to help their children.
Let an unarmed citizen give police the middle finger salute and see how they react, or let someone question their authority, and see how they react. They will go hands in the blink of an eye, as long as they have you outnumbered. Cowards. Has nothing to do with training at all.
Cops aren’t the problem. The citizens are the problem. For some reason citizens think they can ignore their government and everything with be wonderful until it isn’t. Then the contemptuous citizenry want to get on their high horse and blame the very people they allowed to be in positions of authority. You get the government you deserve and by extension the police. If you don’t like corrupt or incompetent police run for office or at the very least make sure people of good moral character are elected.
Preach. A JSOC buddy of mine was part of a group of operators sent to help local police departments with CBQ training and he was appalled at how poorly trained they were.
@@TravelerIntime-bq8ml two tours in Iraq wasn’t enough? lol why don’t you stop assuming anyone critical of poor police performance has never served the country. Makes you seem kinda ignorant…..
See, there’s a lot of context that is not being discussed here. The way that the United States military recruits for special operations versus the way that the United States Police Department recruit for law enforcement are two entirely different things. Different standards. Different acceptance metrics. Different tolerances. Different people applying. Different policies and politics regarding what is allowed in taking action under stress versus What isn’t allowed. The department of Justice has allowed local citizens to have a say in what police can and cannot do. Local citizens don’t have a say regarding what special operations do. They will probably never know some of the things that you all do on your direct action missions. Before we even talk about operating under stress which he is highly correct, we talk about the kind of people that are being recruited for special operations versus the type of people who are willing to sign up for law enforcement. This is a conversation I would love to be a part of.
As an Army Vet I understand some the training and metrics are contrast to LEO. However, the standards still apply across the board. If they can't shoot move and communicate in tactical manner or run towards the threat, then they are liability to themselves and citizens they sworn to protect. They have no problem acting arrogant Gestapo on citizens but when its time do tactical stuff, they get fetal position.
That's a somewhat copout answer. Ultimately, the police and military should be recruiting from the same pool: overall healthy and fit adults who want to serve their community. The TRAINING and POLICIES are where the differences come up. But there's one huge difference between how your average infantry Soldier or Marine (not even talking about SpecOps) reacts under fire and how most police react under fire. Soldiers and Marines KNOW without a doubt that in a firefight amongst civilians that they need to be able to positively identify their targets before they fire or THEY WILL FACE CRIMINAL CHARGES. In order to mitigate that, Soldiers and Marines train for operating under stress, finding the actual threat, and neutralizing it. For that matter, your average citizen armed for self-defense knows the same thing and trains the same way for the same reason, to avoid having to defend their actions in court. These reasons are why your average Soldier, Marine, or armed citizen doesn't pull out/aim their weapon unless they have to. Police KNOW, without a doubt, that: 1) there is no legal duty for them to act to protect citizens (multiple SCOTUS precedents, Warren v District of Columbia is probably closest in application), 2) they are constantly told the most important thing on any scene is "officer safety" and are trained to go to great lengths (including violating citizen's Constitutional rights or even killing them) to maintain it, and 3) even if innocent people die, due to police actions or inactions, they face almost no possibility of jailtime or monetary/career loss because they have qualified immunity. Those three factors add up to a pretty strong incentive to stand around and wait for backup, which is exactly what happened in Uvalde and Parkland.
@@JupiterxiceYour typical police agency admins are hiring officers based on their ability to follow orders. They are largely NOT hiring new officers based on any sort of tactical proficiency or even a basic interest in firearms. If they're given a choice in hiring a 200 lb male vet with three tours overseas and a 120 lb female with no experience who doesn't rock the agency boat, a lot of admins these days are going to hire the female
I’ve wondered how many of those cops at uvalde have in the past chased someone down over a middle finger salute, or roughed someone up, and jailed them for using profanity. Let a real dangerous situation come up, and you can see how brave these clowns are.
I heard testimony from one of the fathers whose kid was killed about seeing the officers who sat and listened to his kids die still working patrol in the town. I would’ve had to move-for those offices’s safety.
@richardlong6097, As a retired law enforcement officer from Jersey, I'm going to call it as I see it. In my opinion, Chief Pete Arrendondo from Uvalde Police demonstrated a lack of leadership because who in their right mind would try to talk down an active shooter when he is killing children. Chief Arrendondo is an embarrassment to the law enforcement community and as someone who is to lead, he did not take charge of the scene at all. Chief Pete Arrendondo's certification should be revoked for his systemic leadership failure, he does not need to wear a badge or uniform and should not represent law enforcement across this country.
“Getting out of your comfort zone and training.” I’ve seen this firsthand where guys didn’t really want to expose themselves. The biggest thing people don’t realize is how much humility it takes to train for this type of work. Training avoidance due to ego is a real phenomenon.
When I do scenario based training with firefighters I always begin with a speech on this topic. If you mess up or fail during training, so what, you'll be better because of it. But if a leader does terrible in training...
I was a cop in western PA from 2001 to 2012. During that time I interviewed at anither department in hoped of getting hired there. During my interview I was asked what I would do if I was dispatched to an active shooter at the middle school down the road. I told the panel that I would respond immediately and enter the structure with my patrol rifle. I stated that I would call for immediate backup before I was on scene but that I woukd entrr the building and locate, close with, and destroy the threat. I was not hired based on that response. They said that the panel preferred that their officer stage outside and wait for state police or county swat to arrive and make entry (which would have been at best another 10 to 20 minutes). My response was "to military, to aggressive." Their preference was an exact Uvalde response. I knew then that I was not going to make law enforcement my long term career. I resigned from the job less than a year after that. Police agencies don't want military type responses because the general public opposes anything resembling militarization of police. (It should be noted that I am a veteran of the Marine Corps infantry, thus my response.)
Active shooter response isn't a "military type" response, in the same way a rifle isnt a "military" rifle, it is just a rifle by its own definition. The word "Military" is a semantic term that has no bearing on the "tactic. Active shooter principles and procedures have been well established nationally. So I don't understand how that agency would go against nationals practices.
@handled99 What do you want me to say? You just heard the guys in this video, cops, saying that there is no national standard for ANY police training. Either you're deaf, didn't pay attention, or are willfully ignorant. Watch it again, and pay attention Mr. KnowsEverything.
Army Vet who has been in LE 24 years. Patrol, SWAT, Narco. The thing with LE training is: In the military it's mostly training, training, training, until you get deployed to WORK. Then you rotate back for more training. In LE its work, work, work and you try to squeeze in training without breaking the overtime budget. Or without pulling so may officers off of the street for training that there is nobody answering calls. LE is like being deployed 24/7/365 with no rotation back to the States for training. So you try to squeeze in "field training" between missions as best you can. IMO, the "solution" is to staff PD's so that there is enough manpower to have an entire shift/platoon off the road for training for a quarter of the year. And you have quality training facilities and instructors, relevant training and a commitment to performance. The fact of the matter is..for all the lip service the public gives to improving the caliber of American LE...pretty much nobody would be willing to pay the tax bill for what that would take to really work.
Couldn't have said it better. I don't think the public understands how much training - "initial" training, training until mastery, "maintenance" training, new or advanced training it takes. That in itself is a pipeline. It's unaffordable, as you hinted, for most places. The best case, sadly, is the "better than no training" scenario - 40 hours. A _Top Gun_ approach might work better, where they train _good trainors_ (not necessarily the best performers, but really really good teachers). Then they can go back to their departments and work out a program that best suits their needs.
Nobody simply wants to do it anymore. So as you stated is correct, but you also have to find the people that truly want a career in law enforcement, which in my state is far and few in between. It’s the same with EMS too. Nobody wants to do it anymore. It’s simply came to the point it’s not worth it anymore. We had 3 people quit this week. 2 medics and 1 EMT. I’m the next medic that’s leaving here In a couple weeks. And a lot of that is how unorganized the entire 911 and first responder system is as a whole. God bless, we had a crew get threatened to get shot by a known gang member just 2 weeks ago, elbowed one of the crews in the chest and tried making entry into one of our ambulances and they never arrested the guy. That’s the shit that irritates us because when law enforcement calls for us we’re expected to be there within minutes, but when we need y’all you simply don’t show up or refuse to secure the scene.
@@gunlover5564 be careful with the "you" when you talk about Law Enforcement. We are certainly not one singular entity when it comes to quality/professionalism/performance. That certainly doesn't apply to my agency..here we would almost be better off throwing someone into our squad car vs waiting for a bus to arrive. And we are in a major suburban area..not the styx. But not all ambulance services are made equal either....
@@thomasgerace4354 I don’t doubt that. I’ve worked at a few squads and at least in WV every department comes off as the same. It may be different in other states, but it’s to the point i carry concealed because it’ll be 30 minutes before we get an officer. The state police have a policy here they won’t run SI calls. Their policy is they have to be homicidal and not suicidal for them to show up, which you know as well as I do Suicidal people can be the most dangerous. They tell us all the time to call only if we need them, so we’re expected to get shot at first I guess before they decide to respond is my take on it. But, at that point we could be filled with bullet holes and never reach the radio. I have a lot of slops I work with that are also lazy providers and take forever to mark up on calls. I do however try to get to you guys in a decent time, but it’s difficult when people call for foot pain and you’re stuck in the ER around the time you guys call. As I stated, it’s a broke, abused, and unorganized system all the way around.
@@gunlover5564 Roger That. I just get amped up whenever I see any sort of statement that paints "LAW ENFORCEMNET" as one singular entity. There are numerous PD's I would not want to be associated with..... ;)
if,,,IF one of the 2 Funeral employees that worked up to the Turd after he crashed his truck, were armed and engaged him, if the safety Officer was on Patrol checking that all exterior doors are closed, it angers me to think of all the crap, the "high Fives." hearing shoots fired in a school and they are standing outside those classrooms
That's the result of BLM and "defund the police" and prosecutors going after officers for political brownie points. The moment that movement started to gain traction everyone in the field knew that would be the result. Don't act like it is just the natural state of policing or that cops see somehow innately evil.
"[...] the Constitution [...] has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867)
Malum In Se/Malum Prohibitum Nothing moral requires authority. Authority is the claim to the exclusive exemption to morality. It is a monopoly on violence. Violence is a violation because it is the initiation of aggression, not self-defense. Offense/defense are ontologically distinct. All crime has a legal equivalent (ie, taxation is extortion). Every government is founded on Ad Baculum. Warren v. District of Columbia Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales DeShaney v. Winnebago County Lozito v. New York City You are legally compelled via the logical fallacies Ad Populum, Ad Baculum and Ad Verecundiam to pay for protection that they are not legally obligated to provide. That's a mafia. The highest Abrahamic value is Ignorance of Good and Evil. It's right there in Genesis. They worship Yaldabaoth, God of the Scapegoaters: God blames Man; Man blames Woman; Woman blames Serpent; Serpent blames God, more accurately - the Serpent defines God. God Condones Child Rape No.s 31: 17-18 God Condones Rape Deut. 22: 28-29 God Condones Abortion No.s 5: 11-31 Unquestioning Obedience to Government Rom.s 13: 1-7 Ritualistic classifying surgery as a means of psychic castration, like circumcision and sub-incision, are hallmarks of patriarchal culture, a demonstration to the young that the venerable old ones still wield the all-powerful knife - and the beginning of transsexualism. Those who do not perform the cult's rite can never enjoy full social status. Symbols of the castrated member, the tie and bow-tie, are mandatory accoutrements of the political wardrobe and phallic monuments are erected to commemorate the minds conquered long ago. Brute force is no longer necessary. The capitalist priest class of Psychiatry, working in tandem with the State bureaucracy, regulates and polices the new Restriction and gelding of desire. Psychiatrists, along with other legal arbiters, help to obscure justice with grey areas of intentionality, mental state, etc. Some mistake this as a system of Liberty, ignorant of the fact that Psychiatric Control is a cornerstone of the perfected Totalitarian State. All modern illnesses come from the absurd and tragic struggle of man's inability to bridle Nature. This dogma echoes perpetually, omnisciently by understanding voices in self-help books, billboards, radio commercials and television talk shows to convince the public to practice continual self-suppression and hormonal restraint. Any deviation is an indication of something severely wrong with the individual. Perhaps Lycanthropic Transformation Rites are in some way a Psychic Preparation for the millennial calamities that are thought to lie ahead. Legalism is a Language of Equivocations, a process of assimilation to violence and illogic. Etymology: government Gubernare: to control Mens/Mentis: mind culture Colere: to inhabit, to till Cult: collective mind -ure: process of civilize, etc. Civitas: city -ize: to do/to make like police, policy, politics, polite Polis: city authority Auctor: master, father, creator -ity: quality of religion Religare: to bind fast, to place an obligation on -ion: noun-forming suffix uniform Uni-: one Form: shape They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes. "Everything is metamorphosed into its opposite to perpetuate itself in its expurgated form. All the powers, all the institutions speak of themselves through denial, in order to attempt, by simulating death, to escape their real death throes. [...] For example: it would be interesting to see whether the repressive apparatus would not react more violently to a simulated holdup than to a real holdup. Because the latter does nothing but disturb the order of things, the right to property, whereas the former attacks the reality principle itself." - Jean Baudrillard (Simulacra & Simulation - 1981) "Our rulers, who rule our symbols, and so rule a symbolic class of life, impose their own infantilism on our instituitions, educational methods, and doctrines. This leads to maladjustment of the incoming generations which, being born into, are forced to develop under the un-natural (for man) semantic conditions imposed on them. In turn, they produce leaders afflicted with the old animalistic limitations. The vicious circle is completed; it results in a general state of human un-sanity, reflected again in our instituitions. And so it goes, on and on." - Alfred Korzybski (Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics - 1933) "I am a cosmopolitan." - Diogenes "If I could not be Alexander, I should wish to be Diogenes." - Alexander the Great "A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867) "It is incredible how as soon as a people become subject, it promptly falls into such complete forgetfulness of its freedom that it can hardly be roused to the point of regaining it, obeying so easily and willingly that one is led to say that this people has not so much lost its liberty as won its enslavement." - Étienne de la Boétie (Discours de la servitude volontaire ou le Contr'un - 1577) "Leadership in government is political power, and political power is an official form of antagonizing the people. Politics are rules imposed upon the people. They have every man in a straight jacket and without a passport he cannot move a toe. In a free world, they violate the natural rights of every citizen. They have become the weapons of political despots and if you don't think as they think you're deprived of your passport." - Michael Chaplin as Rupert Macabee (A King in New York - 1957) "Imagine, if you will, a world filled only with criminals of whom there are two classes: those too honest to rationalize their crimes and the powerful who scapegoat them." - Rod Serling "Eye have no Moral Obligation to ask permission from the person to whom Eye Morally Object if Eye may exercise mEye Moral Objection." - Unknown ^}%%{%^}#%#
@@lameetcalice3845This is amazing. Almost too good for the TH-cam comment section. Do you have a Twitter account or any set of links or a reading list you could recommend to me, please?
Thanks for protecting our country! We're being invaded from the south and they sent you to the sandbox. The US protects Koreas border better than ours. . . . Thanks for your service, but no thanks.
How easy it is to stay in Marine mode when you are a Police officer? Not all, but for some, it seems they treat civilians like they are different than them. Or that they are terrorists the fight over sea.
They failed because they were cowards and did not follow their training ( that they just had). I was 13 years on SWAT and taught patrol in response to an active shooter.
Like you, I have tactical experience. You mentioned "they did not follow your training" my question to you: What training? I read a lot of the Uvalde after action report that recently came out and a lot of them (Uvalde PD, UICSD) had little to NO active shooter training. Nothing relevant.
@@handled99 Justifying a lack of ANY significant response by first-responders because of not having an arbitrary training course on the subject is absurd. Everyone wants police officers to be safe and effective at their jobs, but not everything in life can be boiled down to what a piece of paper or a checkmark says you can or can't do. What training would've stopped the guys applying hand sanitizer while kids are dying down the hall? The union's policies are damaging here as well, with only four of the two-hundred cops involved were fired, and many have resigned to work elsewhere. To adapt part of an old saying, I'd rather risk being carried by six than branded a coward that let kids die for the rest of my life. Apparently some cops are fine with cowardice and will explain it away with a piece of paper.
@@crimesguy Clearly you have zero tactical training/experience and zero ability to read and digest information. I'm not interested in having discussions with people who don't know what they are talking about but are so opinionated. Literally the biggest waste of time.
@@handled99 Cool, an appeal to authority argument instead of addressing the issues. What I'm saying doesn't imply a lack of tactics, but rather an appeal to act on what the police HAVE been taught in a crisis rather than waiting for the "most qualified" to arrive. Specifically, I hit on the police lacking accountability, as well as union rules hurting any effort to do right by the Uvalde students during this tragedy (or for justice after). I fail to see how my well-argued point hasn't been constructive, where the "throw more money at training" argument you appear to hold has done little to remedy these situations. If your points are so unassailable, why don't you offer a defense of them? Are you afraid of real dialogue when pressed on an opinion you hold, or do you stand by your convictions?
Back when I was trained we were trained on stress every day. Every day we were subjected to verbal and physical hammering. We boxed, we grappled, and we fought, for six months. I made us a very close-knit group of officers, which showed on the streets daily. In terms of shooting, we trained at night, in the rain and cold.... All that training is gone. WHY? A lawsuit was filed that stated the training was too hard and some recruits, mostly females, were not able to pass it subsequently the training had some aspects removed and others "softened". Imagine that..this is why we have what we have now. Tryouts for the ESS and AT teams are still the coveted jobs where the guys are true LE and just don't appear as ones like so many do.
Stress inoculation in police training is paramount. If you aren’t doing Simunition-type scenario training on a regular basis, you are failing your officers.
Children seem to train more for mass shootings than police officers. I don't know if it's the case anymore but when I was a kid, firefighters would show up at our school's fire drill and train to respond at the same time.
Are you willing to pay more in taxes and fight for higher taxes (or cuts elsewhere) to fund Simmunition training? A box of Sims 9mm rounds are about $0.80 a round and you can easily go through 500 of those in a 20 person department... and there are a lot of departments that size or bigger in the US. I fully agree with where you are coming from, but I don't think you quite understand how dire the training budgets are in most agencies.
@@Whiskey11Gaming as someone who has been shot with an old, dried sim round? Yes! I would pay for new fresh ones. These were provided to us by the US Department of Energy who, in the early 2000’s had a training budget of over $400m. Perhaps sharing is caring. Perhaps our federal government could do a little more to allow our tax dollars to find their way into local police training budgets. I get they’re all strapped for cash but it’s not because the taxpayers aren’t paying their fair share it’s because any money the government takes in “disappears” and goes elsewhere.
I worked for 24 years a a cop, and nobody knows how someone is going to react until it happens, no matter what they tell you. I've worked with ex-special forces guys that were cops that panicked when they were alone with a violent situation, and kids fresh out of college that couldn't have been calmer. Training helps. But pretending as though you know how someone is going to react when it's 1 v 1 (or more) for your life for the first time and help is five to ten minutes away, even with all the training in the world, is nonsense until it actually happens. Anyone that tells you differently is selling something that they don't have experience in. Uvalde is a completely different issue. This was people following bad commands that shouldn't have been followed, and very little to do with stress.
Same with the fire service. Until that person gets their first real fire you have no idea how they are going to perform. I've trained and worked with quite a few of ex-military guys with mixed results. You would think they would have an advantage but they don't perform any better/worse than a regular guy. And you are spot on about the command issues with any hierarchical organization. All it takes is poor commands from a senior officer to screw everything up. Everybody downstream has no choice but to follow orders.
Same scenario here. I had no military service coming into law enforcement. Two of the guys in my training class were Marines. Good guys but could not make a decision on their own. They would constantly freeze up unless being told what to do. Not saying they were way worse out in the field, but it is 100% the individual who makes a good LEO or not. You can never have enough training, but the person him or herself is the one who has to act.
Im a former peace officer who’s now working as a Safety Director for a large school district. My take away from this event combined with the general state of readiness of my former fellow officers is…we must train & prepare to participate in our own rescue.
I'm a G-armed officer FDACS.gov & Army veteran 4yr MP/enlisted 1990s. In Florida: I've worked armed 🚓 on 2 school-campus posts in the 2010s 2020s. I'd advise any teacher, school board or principal that security officers or SROs/deputies are 1, one part of a plan. 📑 Each teacher, school principal, staff member, parent, local chief or sheriff, PTA needs to be actively involved in school safety, schedules, SOPs, notifications. I myself had parents call 📞 & report security points 2-3 days after they already took place! 🫤 I had 1 campus event, teacher-class instructor called 🚑🚒🚓 911 & never reported it! Told security or school dir! 0!
You bring up a good point. Everyone expects someone else (in particular a police officer) to save them. No one takes responsibility for saving themselves.
When someone gave me Street Survial and Tactics for Patrol the guys who wrote those books were veterans who told us to dirt dive bad outcomes to learn to create better outcomes.
@@TravelerIntime-bq8ml of course you can. Fear often comes from the unknown...people dont know what the outcome could be, so spiral out of control thinking the worst. repetitions of overwhelming stress allows people to understand their reactions and make adjustments. ie, if your natural response is to freeze or run...you can absolutely change that to fight.
I don't think so, the screening process is extreme to become a Navy Seal, police department hiring is nowhere near as exclusive. You just don't have the same psychology with cops that you do with Navy Seals.
Winnebago and Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales Let's remember that the Supreme Court ruled that the individual police aren't required to go into an active shooter location.
Malum In Se/Malum Prohibitum Nothing moral requires authority. Authority is the claim to the exclusive exemption to morality. It is a monopoly on violence. Violence is a violation because it is the initiation of aggression, not self-defense. Offense/defense are ontologically distinct. All crime has a legal equivalent (ie, taxation is extortion). Every government is founded on Ad Baculum. Warren v. District of Columbia Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales DeShaney v. Winnebago County Lozito v. New York City You are legally compelled via the logical fallacies Ad Populum, Ad Baculum and Ad Verecundiam to pay for protection that they are not legally obligated to provide. That's a mafia. The highest Abrahamic value is Ignorance of Good and Evil. It's right there in Genesis. They worship Yaldabaoth, God of the Scapegoaters: God blames Man; Man blames Woman; Woman blames Serpent; Serpent blames God, more accurately - the Serpent defines God. God Condones Child Rape No.s 31: 17-18 God Condones Rape Deut. 22: 28-29 God Condones Abortion No.s 5: 11-31 Unquestioning Obedience to Government Rom.s 13: 1-7 Ritualistic classifying surgery as a means of psychic castration, like circumcision and sub-incision, are hallmarks of patriarchal culture, a demonstration to the young that the venerable old ones still wield the all-powerful knife - and the beginning of transsexualism. Those who do not perform the cult's rite can never enjoy full social status. Symbols of the castrated member, the tie and bow-tie, are mandatory accoutrements of the political wardrobe and phallic monuments are erected to commemorate the minds conquered long ago. Brute force is no longer necessary. The capitalist priest class of Psychiatry, working in tandem with the State bureaucracy, regulates and polices the new Restriction and gelding of desire. Psychiatrists, along with other legal arbiters, help to obscure justice with grey areas of intentionality, mental state, etc. Some mistake this as a system of Liberty, ignorant of the fact that Psychiatric Control is a cornerstone of the perfected Totalitarian State. All modern illnesses come from the absurd and tragic struggle of man's inability to bridle Nature. This dogma echoes perpetually, omnisciently by understanding voices in self-help books, billboards, radio commercials and television talk shows to convince the public to practice continual self-suppression and hormonal restraint. Any deviation is an indication of something severely wrong with the individual. Perhaps Lycanthropic Transformation Rites are in some way a Psychic Preparation for the millennial calamities that are thought to lie ahead. Legalism is a Language of Equivocations, a process of assimilation to violence and illogic. Etymology: government Gubernare: to control Mens/Mentis: mind culture Colere: to inhabit, to till Cult: collective mind -ure: process of civilize, etc. Civitas: city -ize: to do/to make like police, policy, politics, polite Polis: city authority Auctor: master, father, creator -ity: quality of religion Religare: to bind fast, to place an obligation on -ion: noun-forming suffix uniform Uni-: one Form: shape They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes. "Everything is metamorphosed into its opposite to perpetuate itself in its expurgated form. All the powers, all the institutions speak of themselves through denial, in order to attempt, by simulating death, to escape their real death throes. [...] For example: it would be interesting to see whether the repressive apparatus would not react more violently to a simulated holdup than to a real holdup. Because the latter does nothing but disturb the order of things, the right to property, whereas the former attacks the reality principle itself." - Jean Baudrillard (Simulacra & Simulation - 1981) "Our rulers, who rule our symbols, and so rule a symbolic class of life, impose their own infantilism on our instituitions, educational methods, and doctrines. This leads to maladjustment of the incoming generations which, being born into, are forced to develop under the un-natural (for man) semantic conditions imposed on them. In turn, they produce leaders afflicted with the old animalistic limitations. The vicious circle is completed; it results in a general state of human un-sanity, reflected again in our instituitions. And so it goes, on and on." - Alfred Korzybski (Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics - 1933) "I am a cosmopolitan." - Diogenes "If I could not be Alexander, I should wish to be Diogenes." - Alexander the Great "A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867) "It is incredible how as soon as a people become subject, it promptly falls into such complete forgetfulness of its freedom that it can hardly be roused to the point of regaining it, obeying so easily and willingly that one is led to say that this people has not so much lost its liberty as won its enslavement." - Étienne de la Boétie (Discours de la servitude volontaire ou le Contr'un - 1577) "Leadership in government is political power, and political power is an official form of antagonizing the people. Politics are rules imposed upon the people. They have every man in a straight jacket and without a passport he cannot move a toe. In a free world, they violate the natural rights of every citizen. They have become the weapons of political despots and if you don't think as they think you're deprived of your passport." - Michael Chaplin as Rupert Macabee (A King in New York - 1957) "Imagine, if you will, a world filled only with criminals of whom there are two classes: those too honest to rationalize their crimes and the powerful who scapegoat them." - Rod Serling "Eye have no Moral Obligation to ask permission from the person to whom Eye Morally Object if Eye may exercise mEye Moral Objection." - Unknown ^}%^}#%{}%{}#
@lameetcalice3845 What's your point? I see that you copy-paste the same collection of disjointed quotes in different threads. Do you feel the need to demonstrate the depth of your research and reading? The untranslated Latin doesn't help. That will impress only if people know what you are talking about already. Consider working on your written communication skills. Instead of exposing the reader to an avalanche of disparate ideas, try using each quote as an introduction to a separate idea, then follow with few sentences, using paragraphs, to explain the meaning and relevance of the quote to the subject matter. (There should be some relationship between the two.) Your ideas will seem radical and obscure to the average reader like myself, not being familiar with your philosophy. Take the opportunity to explain yourself rather than loosing the reader's interest. If you put as much work into your message as what it appears you've put into your reading, you'll be able to write a book on it. I hope this helps!
@@GarrisonFall Ad Hominem Red Herring Projection: When one cannot immediately make sense of something, so he attributes his own Non-Sense-Making to others. You, like everyone else on the internet, are already here to look things up. You're placing your own indolence onto me.
I passed the same - compulsory - education system you did. I know exactly how you think things are "supposed to be." Deviate from the plan in the slightest, and you don't know what to do.
I spent 5 months of last year in training for a federal law enforcement position. in those 5 months we had roughly 40 hours of training like they're referring to, and our instructors were overjoyed because until recently it had only been 20. when we were asked what we thought, everyone agreed we felt like we needed 400 hours of it to even start to be proficient. we only got to do 2 active shooter drills, and going back over it and seeing the mistakes that could have gotten us killed was eye opening.
My foreigners I was advising for CT would get 600 plus. US military is over 1000 each year. But I was also told by local PD’s when I offered free training I did not know what comes out of your butt. Comes down to ego and attitude equals quality training to performance.
Been on the job for 12 years. Ive maxed out multiple credit cards for training because my 500+ man department refused to send me. I am looked at as crazy or over prepared within my PD, most cops wont go to training unless they are forced. Great video
Probably none, but she wouldn't have done much good, either, had someone with a weapon looked her way and decided to smoke her. Part of what their conversation was is that there's a right way and a wrong way to make tactical entries, and bravery doesn't make a retarded course of action functional. You can be brave, or needless of danger, and fuck up just as badly or worse than someone who is well-trained but hesitant or afraid to move.
*That mother's actions are understandable, but she was not helpful in the slightest....she was part of the problem, rather than the solution.* I applaud the police for doing their best to control an irrational antagonistic crowd of civilians interfering at a horrific crime scene. #GodBlessLawEnforcement
@@thomasg4324oh please, foh. Bunch of dudes with guns sitting around instead of doing something, a woman had more balls than all these mfs with weapons.
@@eazeyt1759 What would that woman do when she got to the LOCKED metal security door the police were desperately trying to unlock with the WRONG KEYS provided to them...and whilst other officers were securing the rest of the school fromall of the other shooters? *You are emotionally compromised, and irrational.*
As a retired officer and technical commander I really appreciate this. I was a better payroll officer because of being an S.R.T officer. The team I was on trained under stress constantly. Thank you so for your service and this video. Great job.
This is spot on. I’m grateful that we do a decent bit of scenario based and stress induced training at my agency. Obviously it’s impossible to 100% accurately replicate the exact same type of stress, but you can get close and practice working through it.
The problem is that most of the Uvalde officers would panic and mag dump over an acorn hitting their car... but when they have to go into KNOWN DANGER they freeze 💯 So panic firing or freezing is what we are left with... it's SO ridiculous ffs!!!
@@jzero90921 We are allowed to discuss Law Enforcement's understanding of the law with regard to a SEAL's opinion on Law Enforcement's alleged "failures under stress".
Excellent conversation. What I have noticed in my career is the unwillingness to outsource training for law enforcement. Everything is in house and, because of ego, low budget, or all of the above, opportunities to have people like Andrew Sullivan come in and train the department gets passed up. Like an assembly line, departments will continue to check off the boxes. What winds up happening is you a select few LEO’s going and getting training on their own. In my opinion, these guys just skimmed the surface how big a problem this is. Not a negative on their part.
It’s not training. School shooters are not trained mercenaries nor the parents who were willing to defend the children. It’s about heart. It’s not John wick in that school. All it takes to beat a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. And we make the mistake of believing that cops are good guys with guns. Noooooo. They are guys with guns. They type of person they are is up for debate and isn’t tested until things crazy. Then you see who they are.
Cops do not operate great in 99.7% of their job. They also have a severe lacking of basic understanding of law in which they enforce. They need better training all around.
But, are you willing to pay for it? It is easy to say "Train them more." However, if you sat down low wage workers and give them lectures by the most famous law professor, do you think that would make them become lawyers? If you want people smart and capable enough to make legal analysis on their feet which requires just as much smarts as a lawyer, then what are you willing to pay to recuit them?
@@sana-cm7ocLikes of you whine about "Cops need to be trained better...blah blah" but you demonstrate that you do not even understand basic economics. This has nothing to do with "deserve." Stupid virtue signaling does not imrpove anything. People do not move by virtue. They move by self-intereset and incentives. You want better people, then you need to attract better people with incentives. Exactly how do you propose "They don't deserve anyting...blah blah" will imrpove anything? You whine that "They need to hire better people." Then why would better people work for a department where you live where you are whining "They don't deserve respect...blah blah." Why would anyone with a functioning brain cell apply there?
@@sana-cm7oc YOU say "They need to hire better people." You answer me this. If I am a 21 year old smart and well educated enough to compete with a lawyer to know what action is constitutoinal while dealing with criminals under danger and capable enough to be a top shooter, why would I apply for a department in your town where people like you are saying "They do not deserve...." Especially when I have lot better options?
Police used to be trained in dealing with stressful situations when I was on the job 25 years ago. I watch these videos today and it’s obvious there is little to no training going on when it comes to proper reaction. I was a SWAT guy and I trained with LAPD SWAT. We took that back to patrol.
Start with fundamentals. So many just have zero clue about 1st, 4th, and 5th amendment rights. If you're going to swear an oath, uphold it or go work at Sonic🙄
ROEs for the police are way different. Risk and liability of collateral damage is much higher and they have that drilled into them. They don’t get to call in supporting fire missions and air support to level a block.
Ret US Navy officer: SEAL Denver Rourke talks about this in his non fiction books 📚. Rourke was CO of the SpecWar Navy's BUD/S & in admin-selection programs. He explains how SOF troops were selected, trained, evaluate. SEALs, MARSOC, SF, ACE-CAG, ISA, FBI-HRT, BORTAC can't spend time, resources, $$$ on people who lack the drive or will to act, follow basic tasks, use weapons. This is why military 🪖 SOF-SF training cut or lose so many applicants.
As a former officer I saw that some just have it in them to pop to, and "arise" to just about any occasion, and I've seen others with with hours and hours of training that freeze up or hesitate, it's just in some to sacrifice themselves for others, and some just never will, it's fight or flight some fight when backed into a corner and some can't overcome the flight
My God Boys, what a great interview. I'm retired LEO 21 years. NEVER had to even contemplate an Uvalde, or any of the other school shootings. I will watch the entire interview - but to respond to your question, as a former training officer and current background investigator deputy sheriff's and police officers are NOT TRAINED properly in stress management and myriad other highly critical areas. I have bitched about this for years. As you said, departments typically just cover their butts and also are normally REactive instead of being PROactive. This all makes for a less well protected public and a public who receives the bad end of the stick when LEO's err. Love your concern and this discussion and thank you Mr. Sullivan for sharing very good information with the public. Please keep this discussion going and perhaps something positive will come of it! I hope.
Remember a lot of the mindset of military members I was the marine for 20 years we train for combat stress. All we do is train for combat day and day out every single scenario every day so this way when you get to battle or you go to combat it is just muscle memory.
The Uvalde cops clearly didn't have street combat experience. I worked in LA for about 20 years. Fights were a nightly occurrence. Been shot at countless times. Any boot would have worked those halls.
I agree. I served in Law Enforcement and in the military. State training and in service classes are not enough. Back in 2005, about a dozen of us Officers and Deputies would train twice a month out at a outdoor range...not just shooting and acquiring paper targets. We would do physical exercises plus running, building up stress and adrenalin. We would work together as a team. Shooting on the move, communicate, transitions, finding cover and concealment. Empty weapon drills, clearing rooms, exiting a vehicle ( the coffin). We would do this on our own time and our own dime. We would do this with mixed partners ( one from a Police Agency the other from the Sheriff's Office to learn to work as a team). The State "Mandated Training" is not enough. And it probably hasn't changed.
You're not wrong but one thing that has changed dramatically between 2005 and today is how expensive it is today to train on the range compared to 2005 and salaries have not kept pace with inflation, let alone ammunition costs.
Former law enforcement here in a fairly high crime rate city in America. I recently quit after doing the job less than a year and a half, I just disliked the job, wasn't very committed to it. I remember going through tactics and all of that during my six month police academy, towards the end we got to spend one week with the department SRT team. That one week was night and day from everything we did in six months of that academy, big respect for those men and women of that team.
That certainly plays a part. Like when cops are encouraged to participate in civilian competitions, the excuse for avoiding them is they’re not as good as they want the civilians to think they are and don’t want to learn. And of course some attitudes in the civilian firearms industry is rather condescending.
@@sombra6153In a sense, rightfully so. You should scorn the average police officer, because the average police officer is a panicky, barely-trained piece of shit with little to no idea how to function in a scenario in which they'd most be needed. The average 10-year cop has less capability to deal with this shit than I did as a 19-year-old dumbass running around Fallujah and Baghdad. Scorn your police. Until they get better, and can prove it, it's all they deserve. There is literally *nothing* special about their job that should buy them an ounce of slack or freedom from judgment.
It’s truly a paradox, as rich of a country as we are, we fail so much where it matters. I know a lot of police that talk about how lack of training and bare minimum training makes it dangerous.
It's really only a certain percentage of people who get most of the wealth. Everyone else gets whatever they have the leverage to demand, regardless of their value.
9:30 That's the "holy grail" right there. These police out here need to pursue activities that teach them how to get comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. Just being diligent with how you patrol your city or county will NOT adequately prepare you for dealing with a hopelessly callous and/or deranged person killing just to vent his or her blind rage. 🙏
I know a veteran sergeant in the police department of a very large New England city. Several years ago, he told me about the following incident. He was the sector supervisor that day, alone in his supervisor car. The entire force had recently been trained that on an active shooter call, the first two officers to arrive on scene were to pair up, make entry, move to the sound of the shooting, and engage the shooter. They received a radio call about an active shooter. As he sped to the scene, he got on the radio and reminded the responding officers that the first two were to pair up and make entry. When he arrived on scene, what do you think he found? Three officers outside the building, milling around with their guns drawn. He was PISSED. He pointed at the first two, yelled "follow me", and made entry. Fortunately, it turned out to be a false alarm -- the party who called the police mistook the janitor's broom for a rifle (yea, really). This sergeant told me that if you are ever unfortunate enough to be in an active shooter incident that you are on your own. You can't count on the police.
Everyone wants to be an operator until it’s time to do operator shit. Stress is what you feel when you are unprepared, that’s what happened with them, partly. They were also cowards. Why in LE do we think 24 hours of training a year is ok? If you aren’t training for 250+ hours a year, minimum, you are failing your citizens, your fellow officers, and your family. I’ve been in LE for 10 years, step up LE. Lock the fuck in and be better than the shit most cops are now days. Just speaking facts. Train up and be better
I agree 💯. YOU can control or dictate your training, skill sets, abilities. Do not think you can "fake" your way thru a critical incident? No. LTC Dave Grosman's 2009 Ed On Killing is worth reading 📚. Be up on your game too. Know the industry; brands, weapons, gear, ammunition etc.
Such a good book. Grossman has so much knowledge to help open the eyes of some people that need it. LE just gets so complacent…..we need to step up. That’s what I’m working on in my area, we have had great success in the last 3 years. Been a blessing. Be safe!
I’ve been retired since ‘97 so my initial training took place in 1968. The academy training was OK but what I gained the most from was in field training w/a senior officer next to me. Those guys back then were much different. We learned to take charge on a scene and arrest anyone who got in the way, but I don’t know what happens today. As to the coward remark I didn’t see any in my 30 years, quite the opposite in fact. It’s pretty easy to sit behind a keyboard and call names. There’s no way I will make excuses for some of the things we see today but I do believe cops are reluctant to act for fear of being fired & arrested. I wouldn’t be a cop today for anything, it’s not worth it. Finally, some of what we’re seeing is the result of hiring standards being lowered and the wrong people are coming on the job.
Whatevs... As a VOLUNTEER FF/EMT, I pursued TECC training ON MY OWN TIME (more than once), I then equipped myself with about $500 of TECC gear at my own expense. I work full-time for a state training entity, and I end up equipping MYSELF. Sh*t.
I worked for a very large Dept in Ca. Any time there were budget issues the FIRST thing to get cut was training. Seals train a lot (understatement) and are very well funded. Co and city government will not pay for the level of training necessary for the level of competence you are talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the training workup for a Seal team deployment longer than the actual deployment? One team is training while one is on deployment and then they rotate? Law enforcement doesn't have the budget for it. My dept had A LOT of people who could barely qualify. People only there for the paycheck. I had a captain tell me one time that 80% of the work was done by 20% of the deputies.
If you rely only on your agency for training, you are failing yourself, your family, your partners, and the community for which you work. I can’t tell you how much of my own money and vacation time I used throughout my career to develop myself. It got me a lot of positions because I was better trained than many of my peers. There are no excuses other than lazy selfishness for not developing yourself above what your agency provides.
@@Mounty621 I’m not saying I don’t I’m just saying the agency has a responsibility to the community to better train their officers. The responsibility falls on the city/agency. Of course people should train on their own and better their skills but it isn’t all on the officer to spend hundreds/thousands of their own dollars for this.
@@kyleleslie7795I wholeheartedly agree that the agency has the responsibility to train their officers. However, is that going to be the excuse I'm giving to my family when I get killed in the line of duty because something I could have been better prepared for? I had the luxury of being at agencies that allowed us instructors to develop fantastic range/tactics courses. As you know, not all officers put in the effort regardless. Now think of small town, middle America officers who get paid crap, have mediocre benefits, and then their agency is so podunk their budget is next to nothing. It has to fall back on you as an officer at some point. It sucks, but what is "your" life worth?
The same basic points were made by Bernard Kerik & Jack Maple; NYPD. Kerik, a former US Army MP-enlisted, 82nd Airborne & PC(police Commissioner, 09/11) wrote about it- The Lost Son. Maple who created the popular COMSTAT system, highly respected also said how in most US police 🚔 agencies: 15% of the sworn personnel make the cases, get collars. 85% just act or wait to be told what to do.
I spent 26 years as a patrol LE in one of the top murder capitals in the nation. My high stress level training came from on the street level incidents. I’ve confronted multiple suspects that have been armed and the most dangerous of all pit bulls that don’t know surrender of give up only kill. You’re video is 100% spot on that as a whole LE training and tactics vary so much from agency to agency and state to state it’s unbelievable. Too many narcissists chiefs, sheriffs and training instructors that think their John Rambo. We did 6-8 hours of building clearing and force on force training most of which for most part useless.
First they need to train on learning the constitution and not looking for every excuse to violate it when their feelings get hurt. Next work on actual high stress performance.
Absolutely perfect example is the killer Acorn that caused the police officer to fire on his own patrol vehicle with the criminal in handcuffs in the back seat inside.
The lowering of standards and DEI for law enforcement applicants has contributed to this. I say this as retired officer who served from 1974 -2016. And I’ve been in two gunfights, one in 1985 and one in 2014.
The lowering of standards and DEI for law enforcement applicants may be a contributing factor but you left out a couple crucial elements. The police culture here in the good 'ol U.S of A attracts people with good intentions and then quickly turns it into a us versus them mentality. They violate their oath, adhere to the corrupt culture and are protected by that culture. Thus, the "blue wall of silence." Not to mention the ego driven cowards that get drunk with the power they find themselves with and exploit it. Yup....it's real.
Yes we need more training. Some of us search out training, but until we actually get realistic budgets(we don't get devgru budgets), the majority will not get training. On top of that most of the training we get is lawyer approved to cover the depts butt. That's it.
Back in the late 70’s law enforcement were taught to respond to what ever calls came up and handle the situation. Once LAPD established a SWAT team the rules of engagement changed to secure the area and wait for SWAT. This was a standard operating procedures until Columbine occurred. After Columbine the rules of engagement changed back to if victims are being shot respond and address the issue. In the old days you had a revolver and a shotgun an AR was almost unheard of. The biggest issue with law enforcement administrators is liability liability. Advanced training engaging armed suspects should absolutely be required. As always and unfortunately its a budget issue.
Budget? No it is not. It is a hiring issue. Uvalde proved that. They had training and equipment and chose to arrest the parents instead of trying to save the children. The cops let those children die. I don't need cops. They have become a standing army our forefathers warned us about.
I teach ccw and defensive shooting skills for private citizens. This was The Most honest conversation ever on the subject. Especially the rising to the occasional remarks. I was always told and I also tell our students you do not rise to the occasion you fall to your lowest level of training. As a reminder that students need to train often to stay sharp
I think the main issue is most police officers don’t live and work in a continual high stress city. Those who do will react without hesitation in just about every situation. Training is good but it won’t help if an officer isn’t already working in a continually stressful city.
In Atlanta about 15 yrs ago, this female officer found involved in a fire fight in a parking lot behind her car, with one single suspect on the run from something. Some ricochet or a fragment of a bullet got her firing hand that she trains on. She was able to return effective fire on the suspect from her non-dominant hand, and put him down, to end the situation. Most people dont train with their opposite/ weaker hand with a pistol.....while their main stronger hand is injured.
When they fall off a ladder on the side of a boat. Little slip-ups that can't really be trained out of the situation. Just the nature of the risks of the job.
Elite Units fail all the time in training to work on preventing those failure points. Thing is once your on a 2 way range the other guys get a say as well. I cant think of any OIF Ops but OEF(Afghanistan) you have Operation Red Wing and Battle of Takur Ghar which were both Seal operations predominately. In Africa you had the Tongo Tongo Ambush which was Green Beanies. Going back to the 90s Somalia Black Hawk Down was a cascade of failures from Command down to the Delta(CAG) and Rangers on the ground. Here is the thing though with just about every major failure that Elite Units have in combat. It drives changes in Tactics and Operating Procedures that will trickle from those Tier 1 units down to every conventional Unit.
he's so right. Police need more training ... a lot more training. And exposure to scenarios to desensitize them to the stress and conditions and allow them to perform under pressure.
Look dude, I am sure you were/are a top flight operator in the teams. But stop commenting on police training until you have put in your time actually being responsible for yourself, your partner and your community every night, every weekend, every holiday without break for 30 years. See, cops do not get to train 94% of the time and be on the street for the other 6. Cops are so underfunded and under supported by their communities that they serve (unlike our military) that it is frankly impossible to get anywhere near the level of tactical training that regular grunts get and STILL be available 24/365 without replacement. I agree more training would be great, but before you state that you are the answer to the problem, you need to understand the problem ( it is more than not enough tactical training) from all angles. Thank you. (28+ years on the street every night)
Honestly, there are so many other issues that training is just part of the many issues people have with the police. Trust is another contributing factor.
So, my thing with Uvalde, especially knowing a guy on the BORTAC SOD that responded, is that the responding officers on the initial response not only failed to drive momentum, but the IC passed out bad information to responding follow up officers. If you watch Mike Glover on Cleared Hot Podcast, he talked to the BORTAC Commander, who said his responding agents were told that it was a barricaded shooter and no innocent people in the classroom. That came straight from the IC, who was that fat Uvalde School District Chief. It's also crazy how few acted, all the way from local, to state, to federal. Cops are not always like that though. This was, unfortunately an inevitable failure that was bound to eventually occur in our current climate. This tragedy spurred so much training in tactics throughout agencies. Right after this, in Nashville, those cops took care of business and probably had Uvalde in the back of their minds.
@@sana-cm7oc exactly! This is absolutely true, and while some could tacitly claim ignorance, the officers first on scene knew that kids were in there and didn't make entry or even pass around the information.
@sana-cm7oc I really don't know what the motivation was. One officer's wife was a teacher who was trapped in the classroom, and he didn't force entry even though she called him dying. BORTAC are the only ones who decided to do something, but they're cut from a whole other cloth.
I think Jocko said something quite similar. Special Forces are trained extensively to handle high stress, high threat situations in case they get deployed into a situation that needs that training. Police get deployed daily where at any moment they can end up in a high stress, high threat situation with little training in how to handle it. Don't take that as a quote, it's been a couple years since I heard that interview.
Agree so much on this! Once you drop in special training next to a patrol officer it’s a completely different dynamic. But the average patrol officer is really only tooled well for everyday work & reports etc.
I am a former police officer of 15 years. Management harassed officers who had a lot of seniority out of their jobs, because they cost too much money, so I became a victim of that. Rather than put up with it, I resigned, manager was grinning the whole time I submitted my resignation, so there you go, toxic workplace.
The thing that upsets me about this conversation is that when I got out of the Marine Corps in 2012 I was looking for jobs in law enforcement. I highlighted my 12 years of real world combat experience for OEF/OIF in the Marine Corps Infantry within the applications. I also took note of the fact that my test scores, physical and aptitude, were at the top of the class (admittedly there was a couple occasions I came in 2nd to some of the other applicants but on both of these occasions these departments were looking to hire and train 5-10 cadets to begin training). After going through this process 12 TIMES, I was determined to get to the bottom of why I wasn't getting hired. Lucky for me one of the Police Chiefs was a retired USMC MSGT who I felt comfortable talking to and he explained to me that my combat experience was being looked at as a liability to these departments thinking I would be "overly aggressive". From that point forward I never submitted another application for law enforcement. Instead of continuing to serve I chose a career in financial investments & I'm sure my family is MUCH happier with this result as opposed to me being a disgruntled cop of 12 years.
So agree! Training is not done by checking boxes. Training is an all-the-time thing. If you work 5 days a week. One of the additional days "off" should be spent in training. Especially for police. Or, for that matter, any first responder. Whatever it may be. It can be fun. It can be grueling. It can be an "aha" moment. It can be physical. It can be mental. It can be knowledge. That's the great thing about training. It can be anything, you need it to be, to become better.
I have preached staying armed, staying trained and staying ready to my group in real life - hoping we "do the right thing" if thrust into a situation where "doing the right thing" will save lives -- but compared to THESE guys, I'm a nobody with no talent. That tells me everything I need to know about myself. Finding guys like these and learning from them is absolutely necessary if we plan to protect our loved ones going into the new, very common, urban-based threats. I'm a 20-year navy veteran, trained on three different firearms for shipboard defense, but I recognize I'm nothing more than a "joe 6-pack" (that's beer, not abs) - but I know I NEED to learn from guys like these. Finding them .... now THERE'S the trick! :)
If we pay you, and give you a gun to protect the community, then you need to be ready to put your life on the line. If your not ready, dont take the job. Kudos to the training you do.
I am very lucky that I worked at a large southern police department that really focused on training. The young swat officers ran our critical incident training and they pushed us very hard. We had a critical incident, that you would know, if I told you about it. I was the supervisor that night and was so proud of how all the officers fell back on their training and performed successfully. Officers were arriving on scene and I was in route and ordered them into the building, they did not hesitate and went in and cleared it. I arrived one minute later and the scene was horrific, we did a secondary search and located more people, alive hiding. The issue is that many small departments don’t have the budgets to train properly. Our academy is and always has been way behind on tactics, they really just teach to reduce liability, that’s it. You discuss stress, as long as you know the signs of it, you can make adjustments to how you react. I’m afraid that takes experience and training to be able to recognize it. Training is very important, you fall back on your lowest level of training when under stress. Stress and the effects after the event cannot be underestimated either. Thank you for training officers now. I’m retired, but I am so proud of the officers that i worked with over the years!
I was an LEO trainer for several years. I tried my best to “stress inoculate” our recruits. We also did simunition training every year. It was beneficial but was done so seldom I never was able to correlate the training with real world incidents. Some officers are warriors and others just want a paycheck. It is difficult to train rank and file officers to a high level when they are not fully engaged.
This man nailed it! I worked with 2 departments in my 22 year Police career. My fist provided a lot of training, mostly concentrating on scenario based firearms training and managing stress. My second department provided no training. They just checked boxes. We as citizens should demand better real life high risk training. If your a young Officer seek out the teaining whether or not your department provides it.
I live in the Las Vegas valley. I see the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department in almost DAILY shootings. In the huge majority of officer involved shootings" I see the LVMPD doing well, using restraint when practical and using deadly force when needed. I think these officers are, compared to many other large metropolitan departments, well trained, especially in teamwork in stressful situations. So professional is our LVMPD SWAT teams train OTHER SWAT teams. Kudos to LVMPD.
In footage i saw two officers were using a hand sanitizer the was on the wall while they could hear children being shot that footage has now disappeared from the Internet
Retired in LE after 33 years....I do believe most of my brothers and sisters would have not hesitated to go in alone to stop that active shooter. Regardless of orders or policy. I could not stand there hiding hearing multiple gunshots and screams of children being murdered. Having been in multiple high stress situations proves this to me. There are many who should not be in LE and especially supervisory roles.
every single uvalde cop that was on scene is an absolute coward and have ZERO business wearing a uniform...they should be prosecuted for that. this has nothing to do with training
You are 100% right that training needs to be better. In my career I was denied training 99% of the time even if I was willing to pay for it. If it didn’t check a CYA box I couldn’t go. The other thing we really need to look at is the toxic environment that most officers work under. The leadership is lacking in every department I have interacted with. The officer who responds to that critical incident isn’t just thinking about his life or the life of those in danger, but also his family and future. He has to worry about his career, his freedom, public perception and if he is going to be employed and able to provide for his family. All of this on top of the incident. The office doesn’t just need to respond to tactical incidents but mental heath and relationship and a hundred other things that he was never really trained or intended to deal with. Most towns and counties expect officers to be an MD a psychologist a marriage cluster an attorney a DEVGRU operator and never provide any (or the minimum) training. They expect all this while paying minimum wage or just barely over (at least the state I worked). This is near criminal negligence on the government’s part. We need to do better. Just my $0.02.
When you are walking in a circle you have the dilemma of facing danger or not. You leave a point to face danger and return to the same point for fear of your life, that is the back-and-forth circle.
The problem is police are forced to do too many jobs outside of policing. So their training is super streamlined. Next law enforcement is a revolving door. Across the nation every department in the justice field is understaffed to incredible levels. This forces mandated overtime and that forces work fatigue. Making them all very tired day after day. Not a good foundation to give heighten training scanarios or for them to encounter a real one with lives on the line either.
A lot of police are operating every day in inner city war zones. My friend's son pulled his fellow officer out of his patrol car, shot dead by a carjacker in North Philadelphia. Military special forces normally have full support from their military and civilian superiors, cops are guilty until proven innocent and no one is backing them up.
Cops are immune from the law until they cross a politically connected person. They can break into any place they want, bully anyone who gets in the way, then rob people blind. They also are allowed to have machineguns when they want. Maybe in the rurals the cops don't have armored personnel carriers. But they only get no one backing them up if they tried arresting another cop. The only thing the American police aren't allowed are fighter Jets, and Nuclear warheads. They asked for those and got denied.
Funny how you brought up Skydiving? My First jump was on s Static Line. My mind went blank until I felt the Shoot open! Then i realized I was entangled? I quickly fixed that! They told us the First Command on the radio Was to turn Right! MY radio wasn't working?!?! I Turned Left to tell them I couldn't communicate! Enjoying the view and screwing with the radio ( I Had the landing sight in View). Somehow The radio worked? I Did another Jump that day Perfect! The Human Mind Can Only Handle So Much the First time Before Shutting down! Experience and Repetition Is the Reason we Excel!
Question: Do you think police officers are taught how to manage stress or their emotions enough? For the full episode with Navy SEAL (DEVGRU), Andrew Sullivan, click here th-cam.com/video/21IDZ_Xf9HE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=WZXKA6I1fTLcHrZh.
No. But I also think there are individuals who are under qualified, in more ways than emotionally, for the job that can easily get hired.
Not at all. I was involved in a suspect fleeing with a weapon a few years back. Nothing in my department training, despite my department trying, set me up for it. Maybe the only thing that I remembered was the fact it was a crowded street. I fell back mostly on my military training on react to contact. Fortunately my partner had a similar background. Ultimately it turned out OK, but I didn't feel like my police training had anything to do with my (our in this case) response.
What you guys are talking about isn’t necessarily the problem we Americans are seeing. It’s the cops that don’t care about our rights. They break our constitutional rights everyday. It’s a major issue in the U.S. I’m talking about the cops with a power trip and it’s a major problem. I’m seeing people being arrested for things they say. They get arrested for raising their voice. They go into peoples homes without a warrant. Sometimes they go in the wrong house. We never see an apology. We hear the same things. They went by the book. We get tired of seeing people arrested over petty things yet we see the courts release or not charge the ones who are violent. That is what we are sick of.
Police aren't trained enough! Period! It takes 2 years to become a beautician but a cop only gets a couple months. You don't know the laws and 99% of police don't even know what the first amendment is. You take an oath to the constitution but cops don't even know what it is.
The police academy did try to train stress management but I personally found that many officers would freeze up without direction in difficult situations.
Issue with Uvalde wasnt a moment of panic or making the wrong choice. It was that police were on the scene and did NOTHING for many minutes while kids were dying. They cant even say they tried.
Malum In Se/Malum Prohibitum
Nothing moral requires authority. Authority is the claim to the exclusive exemption to morality. It is a monopoly on violence. Violence is a violation because it is the initiation of aggression, not self-defense. Offense/defense are ontologically distinct. All crime has a legal equivalent (ie, taxation is extortion).
Every government is founded on Ad Baculum.
Warren v. District of Columbia
Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales
DeShaney v. Winnebago County
Lozito v. New York City
You are legally compelled via the logical fallacies Ad Populum, Ad Baculum and Ad Verecundiam to pay for protection that they are not legally obligated to provide. That's a mafia.
The highest Abrahamic value is Ignorance of Good and Evil. It's right there in Genesis. They worship Yaldabaoth, God of the Scapegoaters: God blames Man; Man blames Woman; Woman blames Serpent; Serpent blames God, more accurately - the Serpent defines God.
God Condones Child Rape
No.s 31: 17-18
God Condones Rape
Deut. 22: 28-29
God Condones Abortion
No.s 5: 11-31
Unquestioning Obedience to Government
Rom.s 13: 1-7
Ritualistic classifying surgery as a means of psychic castration, like circumcision and sub-incision, are hallmarks of patriarchal culture, a demonstration to the young that the venerable old ones still wield the all-powerful knife - and the beginning of transsexualism. Those who do not perform the cult's rite can never enjoy full social status.
Symbols of the castrated member, the tie and bow-tie, are mandatory accoutrements of the political wardrobe and phallic monuments are erected to commemorate the minds conquered long ago. Brute force is no longer necessary.
The capitalist priest class of Psychiatry, working in tandem with the State bureaucracy, regulates and polices the new Restriction and gelding of desire. Psychiatrists, along with other legal arbiters, help to obscure justice with grey areas of intentionality, mental state, etc.
Some mistake this as a system of Liberty, ignorant of the fact that Psychiatric Control is a cornerstone of the perfected Totalitarian State.
All modern illnesses come from the absurd and tragic struggle of man's inability to bridle Nature. This dogma echoes perpetually, omnisciently by understanding voices in self-help books, billboards, radio commercials and television talk shows to convince the public to practice continual self-suppression and hormonal restraint. Any deviation is an indication of something severely wrong with the individual.
Perhaps Lycanthropic Transformation Rites are in some way a Psychic Preparation for the millennial calamities that are thought to lie ahead.
Legalism is a Language of Equivocations, a process of assimilation to violence and illogic.
Etymology: government
Gubernare: to control
Mens/Mentis: mind
culture
Colere: to inhabit, to till
Cult: collective mind
-ure: process of
civilize, etc.
Civitas: city
-ize: to do/to make like
police, policy, politics, polite
Polis: city
authority
Auctor: master, father, creator
-ity: quality of
religion
Religare: to bind fast, to place an obligation on
-ion: noun-forming suffix
uniform
Uni-: one
Form: shape
They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes.
"Everything is metamorphosed into its opposite to perpetuate itself in its expurgated form. All the powers, all the institutions speak of themselves through denial, in order to attempt, by simulating death, to escape their real death throes. [...] For example: it would be interesting to see whether the repressive apparatus would not react more violently to a simulated holdup than to a real holdup. Because the latter does nothing but disturb the order of things, the right to property, whereas the former attacks the reality principle itself." - Jean Baudrillard (Simulacra & Simulation - 1981)
"Our rulers, who rule our symbols, and so rule a symbolic class of life, impose their own infantilism on our instituitions, educational methods, and doctrines. This leads to maladjustment of the incoming generations which, being born into, are forced to develop under the un-natural (for man) semantic conditions imposed on them. In turn, they produce leaders afflicted with the old animalistic limitations. The vicious circle is completed; it results in a general state of human un-sanity, reflected again in our instituitions. And so it goes, on and on." - Alfred Korzybski (Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics - 1933)
"I am a cosmopolitan." - Diogenes
"If I could not be Alexander, I should wish to be Diogenes." - Alexander the Great
"A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867)
"It is incredible how as soon as a people become subject, it promptly falls into such complete forgetfulness of its freedom that it can hardly be roused to the point of regaining it, obeying so easily and willingly that one is led to say that this people has not so much lost its liberty as won its enslavement." - Étienne de la Boétie (Discours de la servitude volontaire ou le Contr'un - 1577)
"Leadership in government is political power, and political power is an official form of antagonizing the people. Politics are rules imposed upon the people. They have every man in a straight jacket and without a passport he cannot move a toe. In a free world, they violate the natural rights of every citizen. They have become the weapons of political despots and if you don't think as they think you're deprived of your passport." - Michael Chaplin as Rupert Macabee (A King in New York - 1957)
"Imagine, if you will, a world filled only with criminals of whom there are two classes: those too honest to rationalize their crimes and the powerful who scapegoat them." - Rod Serling
"Eye have no Moral Obligation to ask permission from the person to whom Eye Morally Object if Eye may exercise mEye Moral Objection." - Unknown
^}^#}##{%%%
@jordon
Absolutely! It was unadulterated cowardice. Lack of training had nothing to do with it. Parents who were attempting to rescue their children were being detained by those cowards. If only one officer is on scene you go in and engage/neutralize the threat. It appears the Seal is seeking future employment in police training.
Oh they did something, they prevented anyone from helping those dying kids.
Imagine if officers who responded later (after the initial active shooting had stopped) were told it had become a potential hostage situation had decided to breach a door that was possibly barricaded? If the shooter then decided not to take hostages and instead started killing before the door could be breached, you’d be here saying they caused more children’s deaths by trying to go in without proper planning and breaching equipment/explosives. Do you REALLY think hundreds of cops there, some with kids in the school, were all cowards? The initial officers responding while there was active shooting going on, and the worthless incident commander, yes, they were definitely cowards.
@@steveclark5206
Petitio Principii
Moving the Goalposts
Special Pleading
Red Herring
Ignoratio Elenchi
And yet they all followed the same orders (Nuremberg Defense).
Petitio Principii can and will be used against them.
Etymology
Uni-: one
Form: shape
They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes.
Biggest issue I’ve seen with high stress, high danger incidents is cops not previously accepting the fact they’re probably going to get shot. The Marine Corps taught me to accept this, push through the door and engage. It has helped dividends with my law enforcement career in being willing to be at the forefront of any incident. Even had to tell my wife that one day. If you can push past fear, you can handle almost anything.
Pig.
Training and conditioning. I hate working with untrained people in my profession.
In LE, there is no acceptable number of casualties. One incident paralyzes an entire county and often the bordering counties.
Great points. Natural human reaction to extreme stress is supposed to be "fight or flight", but I think it's actually more often "turtle up" in shock. Can't register/believe this is really happening. It's a natural human reaction, but I believe you can (must) shake off that fog and tunnel vision. Literally scan left and right, and start talking to yourself: " This really IS happening! Move!!". I think moving helps break that "freeze" and fog. Even if it's a step or two in the wrong direction, you'll figure it out. If you stay put and do nothing, you're probably going to die (unless, of course, there is the need to stay behind good cover for the time being). Another good point is to mentally role play those situations beforehand, that way your brain has already "been there". Accept that in a knife fight you WILL be cut. In a gun fight you probably will be shot. If the shot didn't instantly incapacitate you (kill you), then you probably have a good chance of surviving. THEN make the "fight or flight" decision. But do SOMETHING!
First off-SEMPER-FI-brother. I did 4 deployments to go fight in Iraq ( I volunteered for all 4 tours,also did back-to-back tours )with the Texas Guard begining in mid-2004-till-all of-2005,I was in an infantry unit at Camp TQ ( TQ was a Marine FOB at that this time )there was also a-PRC-unit ( a marine reserve unit )our battalion was at TQ,but,our brigade was in another part of Iraq.We did raids,QRF,route-clearance,combat patrols,ECPs and some crazy fire-fights lasting 2/3 hrs. It wasn't no joke there,we had 12 KIAs and 8 severely wounded out of a battalion.With no replacements,so we had to use marines from the Prc unit.The Marines lost 8 of their people. I went to Iraq because I was bored from working my 2 full-time civilian jobs at that time,wanted to do something crazy and dangerous and I did. SEMPER-FI
I haven’t trusted a single cop since this happened. 376 officers there and the only thing they accomplished was to detain the parents who were actually trying to help their children.
Let an unarmed citizen give police the middle finger salute and see how they react, or let someone question their authority, and see how they react. They will go hands in the blink of an eye, as long as they have you outnumbered. Cowards. Has nothing to do with training at all.
Cops aren’t the problem. The citizens are the problem. For some reason citizens think they can ignore their government and everything with be wonderful until it isn’t. Then the contemptuous citizenry want to get on their high horse and blame the very people they allowed to be in positions of authority. You get the government you deserve and by extension the police. If you don’t like corrupt or incompetent police run for office or at the very least make sure people of good moral character are elected.
Preach. A JSOC buddy of mine was part of a group of operators sent to help local police departments with CBQ training and he was appalled at how poorly trained they were.
@@lawreecefluellen4872 why don’t you, and your buddies go down to the border, and take care of the cartel/drug problem.
@@TravelerIntime-bq8ml two tours in Iraq wasn’t enough? lol why don’t you stop assuming anyone critical of poor police performance has never served the country. Makes you seem kinda ignorant…..
See, there’s a lot of context that is not being discussed here. The way that the United States military recruits for special operations versus the way that the United States Police Department recruit for law enforcement are two entirely different things. Different standards. Different acceptance metrics. Different tolerances. Different people applying. Different policies and politics regarding what is allowed in taking action under stress versus What isn’t allowed. The department of Justice has allowed local citizens to have a say in what police can and cannot do. Local citizens don’t have a say regarding what special operations do. They will probably never know some of the things that you all do on your direct action missions. Before we even talk about operating under stress which he is highly correct, we talk about the kind of people that are being recruited for special operations versus the type of people who are willing to sign up for law enforcement. This is a conversation I would love to be a part of.
As an Army Vet I understand some the training and metrics are contrast to LEO. However, the standards still apply across the board. If they can't shoot move and communicate in tactical manner or run towards the threat, then they are liability to themselves and citizens they sworn to protect. They have no problem acting arrogant Gestapo on citizens but when its time do tactical stuff, they get fetal position.
Well said
That's a somewhat copout answer. Ultimately, the police and military should be recruiting from the same pool: overall healthy and fit adults who want to serve their community. The TRAINING and POLICIES are where the differences come up. But there's one huge difference between how your average infantry Soldier or Marine (not even talking about SpecOps) reacts under fire and how most police react under fire. Soldiers and Marines KNOW without a doubt that in a firefight amongst civilians that they need to be able to positively identify their targets before they fire or THEY WILL FACE CRIMINAL CHARGES. In order to mitigate that, Soldiers and Marines train for operating under stress, finding the actual threat, and neutralizing it. For that matter, your average citizen armed for self-defense knows the same thing and trains the same way for the same reason, to avoid having to defend their actions in court. These reasons are why your average Soldier, Marine, or armed citizen doesn't pull out/aim their weapon unless they have to. Police KNOW, without a doubt, that: 1) there is no legal duty for them to act to protect citizens (multiple SCOTUS precedents, Warren v District of Columbia is probably closest in application), 2) they are constantly told the most important thing on any scene is "officer safety" and are trained to go to great lengths (including violating citizen's Constitutional rights or even killing them) to maintain it, and 3) even if innocent people die, due to police actions or inactions, they face almost no possibility of jailtime or monetary/career loss because they have qualified immunity. Those three factors add up to a pretty strong incentive to stand around and wait for backup, which is exactly what happened in Uvalde and Parkland.
@@JupiterxiceYour typical police agency admins are hiring officers based on their ability to follow orders. They are largely NOT hiring new officers based on any sort of tactical proficiency or even a basic interest in firearms. If they're given a choice in hiring a 200 lb male vet with three tours overseas and a 120 lb female with no experience who doesn't rock the agency boat, a lot of admins these days are going to hire the female
@@docstew75Tell us you have no idea how qualified immunity works without telling us you have no idea how qualified immunity works.😅
Training certainly can be improved but Uvalde was far more than a "training" issue, it was a cowardice issue.
I’ve wondered how many of those cops at uvalde have in the past chased someone down over a middle finger salute, or roughed someone up, and jailed them for using profanity. Let a real dangerous situation come up, and you can see how brave these clowns are.
I heard testimony from one of the fathers whose kid was killed about seeing the officers who sat and listened to his kids die still working patrol in the town. I would’ve had to move-for those offices’s safety.
Obese cowards with badges and guns. They arrested the parents.
Overwhelming emphasis on Officer Safety, above and beyond citizen safety or the Constitution, is a training issue.
@richardlong6097, As a retired law enforcement officer from Jersey, I'm going to call it as I see it. In my opinion, Chief Pete Arrendondo from Uvalde Police demonstrated a lack of leadership because who in their right mind would try to talk down an active shooter when he is killing children. Chief Arrendondo is an embarrassment to the law enforcement community and as someone who is to lead, he did not take charge of the scene at all. Chief Pete Arrendondo's certification should be revoked for his systemic leadership failure, he does not need to wear a badge or uniform and should not represent law enforcement across this country.
“Getting out of your comfort zone and training.” I’ve seen this firsthand where guys didn’t really want to expose themselves. The biggest thing people don’t realize is how much humility it takes to train for this type of work. Training avoidance due to ego is a real phenomenon.
When I do scenario based training with firefighters I always begin with a speech on this topic. If you mess up or fail during training, so what, you'll be better because of it. But if a leader does terrible in training...
@@BanjoZZZI was just going to reply it’s the same thing in the fire service.
I was a cop in western PA from 2001 to 2012. During that time I interviewed at anither department in hoped of getting hired there. During my interview I was asked what I would do if I was dispatched to an active shooter at the middle school down the road. I told the panel that I would respond immediately and enter the structure with my patrol rifle. I stated that I would call for immediate backup before I was on scene but that I woukd entrr the building and locate, close with, and destroy the threat. I was not hired based on that response. They said that the panel preferred that their officer stage outside and wait for state police or county swat to arrive and make entry (which would have been at best another 10 to 20 minutes). My response was "to military, to aggressive." Their preference was an exact Uvalde response.
I knew then that I was not going to make law enforcement my long term career. I resigned from the job less than a year after that. Police agencies don't want military type responses because the general public opposes anything resembling militarization of police.
(It should be noted that I am a veteran of the Marine Corps infantry, thus my response.)
Funny thing is now its standard training to enter first whether u have backup on scene or not, at least it is for the agency I work for.
@@vancethompson3858 It's still each agencies individual choice in PA. No two have the same procedural chain.
If the 2a was respected, there wouldn't be any school shootings because every adult would be armed.
Active shooter response isn't a "military type" response, in the same way a rifle isnt a "military" rifle, it is just a rifle by its own definition. The word "Military" is a semantic term that has no bearing on the "tactic.
Active shooter principles and procedures have been well established nationally. So I don't understand how that agency would go against nationals practices.
@handled99 What do you want me to say? You just heard the guys in this video, cops, saying that there is no national standard for ANY police training. Either you're deaf, didn't pay attention, or are willfully ignorant.
Watch it again, and pay attention Mr. KnowsEverything.
Army Vet who has been in LE 24 years. Patrol, SWAT, Narco. The thing with LE training is:
In the military it's mostly training, training, training, until you get deployed to WORK. Then you rotate back for more training.
In LE its work, work, work and you try to squeeze in training without breaking the overtime budget. Or without pulling so may officers off of the street for training that there is nobody answering calls. LE is like being deployed 24/7/365 with no rotation back to the States for training. So you try to squeeze in "field training" between missions as best you can.
IMO, the "solution" is to staff PD's so that there is enough manpower to have an entire shift/platoon off the road for training for a quarter of the year. And you have quality training facilities and instructors, relevant training and a commitment to performance.
The fact of the matter is..for all the lip service the public gives to improving the caliber of American LE...pretty much nobody would be willing to pay the tax bill for what that would take to really work.
Couldn't have said it better. I don't think the public understands how much training - "initial" training, training until mastery, "maintenance" training, new or advanced training it takes. That in itself is a pipeline.
It's unaffordable, as you hinted, for most places. The best case, sadly, is the "better than no training" scenario - 40 hours. A _Top Gun_ approach might work better, where they train _good trainors_ (not necessarily the best performers, but really really good teachers). Then they can go back to their departments and work out a program that best suits their needs.
Nobody simply wants to do it anymore. So as you stated is correct, but you also have to find the people that truly want a career in law enforcement, which in my state is far and few in between.
It’s the same with EMS too. Nobody wants to do it anymore. It’s simply came to the point it’s not worth it anymore. We had 3 people quit this week. 2 medics and 1 EMT. I’m the next medic that’s leaving here In a couple weeks.
And a lot of that is how unorganized the entire 911 and first responder system is as a whole.
God bless, we had a crew get threatened to get shot by a known gang member just 2 weeks ago, elbowed one of the crews in the chest and tried making entry into one of our ambulances and they never arrested the guy.
That’s the shit that irritates us because when law enforcement calls for us we’re expected to be there within minutes, but when we need y’all you simply don’t show up or refuse to secure the scene.
@@gunlover5564 be careful with the "you" when you talk about Law Enforcement. We are certainly not one singular entity when it comes to quality/professionalism/performance.
That certainly doesn't apply to my agency..here we would almost be better off throwing someone into our squad car vs waiting for a bus to arrive. And we are in a major suburban area..not the styx.
But not all ambulance services are made equal either....
@@thomasgerace4354 I don’t doubt that. I’ve worked at a few squads and at least in WV every department comes off as the same. It may be different in other states, but it’s to the point i carry concealed because it’ll be 30 minutes before we get an officer.
The state police have a policy here they won’t run SI calls. Their policy is they have to be homicidal and not suicidal for them to show up, which you know as well as I do Suicidal people can be the most dangerous. They tell us all the time to call only if we need them, so we’re expected to get shot at first I guess before they decide to respond is my take on it. But, at that point we could be filled with bullet holes and never reach the radio.
I have a lot of slops I work with that are also lazy providers and take forever to mark up on calls. I do however try to get to you guys in a decent time, but it’s difficult when people call for foot pain and you’re stuck in the ER around the time you guys call.
As I stated, it’s a broke, abused, and unorganized system all the way around.
@@gunlover5564 Roger That. I just get amped up whenever I see any sort of statement that paints "LAW ENFORCEMNET" as one singular entity.
There are numerous PD's I would not want to be associated with..... ;)
Glad to see this incident still being talked about. We can’t forget what happened in Uvalde. Great job gents.
if,,,IF one of the 2 Funeral employees that worked up to the Turd after he crashed his truck, were armed and engaged him, if the safety Officer was on Patrol checking that all exterior doors are closed, it angers me to think of all the crap, the "high Fives." hearing shoots fired in a school and they are standing outside those classrooms
And now we have a dude unloads a full mag in response to an acorn falling on a car lol
Typical cop, all because they can and there are no consequences.
Ironically, part of the same problem. Terrible screening for officers on hire and piss poor training.
That's the result of BLM and "defund the police" and prosecutors going after officers for political brownie points. The moment that movement started to gain traction everyone in the field knew that would be the result.
Don't act like it is just the natural state of policing or that cops see somehow innately evil.
Acorn guy was a West Pointer and had ten years in SF. Deputy Hernandez.
@@PRC533 When you have cowards they will hire more cowards.
The best thing they could do is give far more training on the Constitution and civil rights.
The TRUTH, but the BOLSHEVIK Police STATE has another agenda.....
"[...] the Constitution [...] has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867)
Malum In Se/Malum Prohibitum
Nothing moral requires authority. Authority is the claim to the exclusive exemption to morality. It is a monopoly on violence. Violence is a violation because it is the initiation of aggression, not self-defense. Offense/defense are ontologically distinct. All crime has a legal equivalent (ie, taxation is extortion).
Every government is founded on Ad Baculum.
Warren v. District of Columbia
Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales
DeShaney v. Winnebago County
Lozito v. New York City
You are legally compelled via the logical fallacies Ad Populum, Ad Baculum and Ad Verecundiam to pay for protection that they are not legally obligated to provide. That's a mafia.
The highest Abrahamic value is Ignorance of Good and Evil. It's right there in Genesis. They worship Yaldabaoth, God of the Scapegoaters: God blames Man; Man blames Woman; Woman blames Serpent; Serpent blames God, more accurately - the Serpent defines God.
God Condones Child Rape
No.s 31: 17-18
God Condones Rape
Deut. 22: 28-29
God Condones Abortion
No.s 5: 11-31
Unquestioning Obedience to Government
Rom.s 13: 1-7
Ritualistic classifying surgery as a means of psychic castration, like circumcision and sub-incision, are hallmarks of patriarchal culture, a demonstration to the young that the venerable old ones still wield the all-powerful knife - and the beginning of transsexualism. Those who do not perform the cult's rite can never enjoy full social status.
Symbols of the castrated member, the tie and bow-tie, are mandatory accoutrements of the political wardrobe and phallic monuments are erected to commemorate the minds conquered long ago. Brute force is no longer necessary.
The capitalist priest class of Psychiatry, working in tandem with the State bureaucracy, regulates and polices the new Restriction and gelding of desire. Psychiatrists, along with other legal arbiters, help to obscure justice with grey areas of intentionality, mental state, etc.
Some mistake this as a system of Liberty, ignorant of the fact that Psychiatric Control is a cornerstone of the perfected Totalitarian State.
All modern illnesses come from the absurd and tragic struggle of man's inability to bridle Nature. This dogma echoes perpetually, omnisciently by understanding voices in self-help books, billboards, radio commercials and television talk shows to convince the public to practice continual self-suppression and hormonal restraint. Any deviation is an indication of something severely wrong with the individual.
Perhaps Lycanthropic Transformation Rites are in some way a Psychic Preparation for the millennial calamities that are thought to lie ahead.
Legalism is a Language of Equivocations, a process of assimilation to violence and illogic.
Etymology: government
Gubernare: to control
Mens/Mentis: mind
culture
Colere: to inhabit, to till
Cult: collective mind
-ure: process of
civilize, etc.
Civitas: city
-ize: to do/to make like
police, policy, politics, polite
Polis: city
authority
Auctor: master, father, creator
-ity: quality of
religion
Religare: to bind fast, to place an obligation on
-ion: noun-forming suffix
uniform
Uni-: one
Form: shape
They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes.
"Everything is metamorphosed into its opposite to perpetuate itself in its expurgated form. All the powers, all the institutions speak of themselves through denial, in order to attempt, by simulating death, to escape their real death throes. [...] For example: it would be interesting to see whether the repressive apparatus would not react more violently to a simulated holdup than to a real holdup. Because the latter does nothing but disturb the order of things, the right to property, whereas the former attacks the reality principle itself." - Jean Baudrillard (Simulacra & Simulation - 1981)
"Our rulers, who rule our symbols, and so rule a symbolic class of life, impose their own infantilism on our instituitions, educational methods, and doctrines. This leads to maladjustment of the incoming generations which, being born into, are forced to develop under the un-natural (for man) semantic conditions imposed on them. In turn, they produce leaders afflicted with the old animalistic limitations. The vicious circle is completed; it results in a general state of human un-sanity, reflected again in our instituitions. And so it goes, on and on." - Alfred Korzybski (Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics - 1933)
"I am a cosmopolitan." - Diogenes
"If I could not be Alexander, I should wish to be Diogenes." - Alexander the Great
"A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867)
"It is incredible how as soon as a people become subject, it promptly falls into such complete forgetfulness of its freedom that it can hardly be roused to the point of regaining it, obeying so easily and willingly that one is led to say that this people has not so much lost its liberty as won its enslavement." - Étienne de la Boétie (Discours de la servitude volontaire ou le Contr'un - 1577)
"Leadership in government is political power, and political power is an official form of antagonizing the people. Politics are rules imposed upon the people. They have every man in a straight jacket and without a passport he cannot move a toe. In a free world, they violate the natural rights of every citizen. They have become the weapons of political despots and if you don't think as they think you're deprived of your passport." - Michael Chaplin as Rupert Macabee (A King in New York - 1957)
"Imagine, if you will, a world filled only with criminals of whom there are two classes: those too honest to rationalize their crimes and the powerful who scapegoat them." - Rod Serling
"Eye have no Moral Obligation to ask permission from the person to whom Eye Morally Object if Eye may exercise mEye Moral Objection." - Unknown
^}%%{%^}#%#
@@lameetcalice3845This is amazing. Almost too good for the TH-cam comment section. Do you have a Twitter account or any set of links or a reading list you could recommend to me, please?
1000%
as a retired Marine and Now a Police Officer, these guys are 100% correct.
Thanks for protecting our country! We're being invaded from the south and they sent you to the sandbox. The US protects Koreas border better than ours. . . . Thanks for your service, but no thanks.
How easy it is to stay in Marine mode when you are a Police officer? Not all, but for some, it seems they treat civilians like they are different than them. Or that they are terrorists the fight over sea.
They failed because they were cowards and did not follow their training ( that they just had). I was 13 years on SWAT and taught patrol in response to an active shooter.
Damn right it was. And a logistical clusterfuck on top of it.
Like you, I have tactical experience. You mentioned "they did not follow your training" my question to you: What training? I read a lot of the Uvalde after action report that recently came out and a lot of them (Uvalde PD, UICSD) had little to NO active shooter training. Nothing relevant.
@@handled99 Justifying a lack of ANY significant response by first-responders because of not having an arbitrary training course on the subject is absurd. Everyone wants police officers to be safe and effective at their jobs, but not everything in life can be boiled down to what a piece of paper or a checkmark says you can or can't do. What training would've stopped the guys applying hand sanitizer while kids are dying down the hall? The union's policies are damaging here as well, with only four of the two-hundred cops involved were fired, and many have resigned to work elsewhere. To adapt part of an old saying, I'd rather risk being carried by six than branded a coward that let kids die for the rest of my life. Apparently some cops are fine with cowardice and will explain it away with a piece of paper.
@@crimesguy Clearly you have zero tactical training/experience and zero ability to read and digest information. I'm not interested in having discussions with people who don't know what they are talking about but are so opinionated. Literally the biggest waste of time.
@@handled99 Cool, an appeal to authority argument instead of addressing the issues. What I'm saying doesn't imply a lack of tactics, but rather an appeal to act on what the police HAVE been taught in a crisis rather than waiting for the "most qualified" to arrive. Specifically, I hit on the police lacking accountability, as well as union rules hurting any effort to do right by the Uvalde students during this tragedy (or for justice after). I fail to see how my well-argued point hasn't been constructive, where the "throw more money at training" argument you appear to hold has done little to remedy these situations. If your points are so unassailable, why don't you offer a defense of them? Are you afraid of real dialogue when pressed on an opinion you hold, or do you stand by your convictions?
Back when I was trained we were trained on stress every day. Every day we were subjected to verbal and physical hammering. We boxed, we grappled, and we fought, for six months. I made us a very close-knit group of officers, which showed on the streets daily. In terms of shooting, we trained at night, in the rain and cold.... All that training is gone. WHY? A lawsuit was filed that stated the training was too hard and some recruits, mostly females, were not able to pass it subsequently the training had some aspects removed and others "softened". Imagine that..this is why we have what we have now. Tryouts for the ESS and AT teams are still the coveted jobs where the guys are true LE and just don't appear as ones like so many do.
Stress inoculation in police training is paramount. If you aren’t doing Simunition-type scenario training on a regular basis, you are failing your officers.
Now hold on buddy. You want to make sure none of your recruits’ feelings get hurt.
@@scdrescher1 Because that psycho murderer is going to stop trying to kill them when they get overwhelmed.
Children seem to train more for mass shootings than police officers. I don't know if it's the case anymore but when I was a kid, firefighters would show up at our school's fire drill and train to respond at the same time.
Are you willing to pay more in taxes and fight for higher taxes (or cuts elsewhere) to fund Simmunition training? A box of Sims 9mm rounds are about $0.80 a round and you can easily go through 500 of those in a 20 person department... and there are a lot of departments that size or bigger in the US. I fully agree with where you are coming from, but I don't think you quite understand how dire the training budgets are in most agencies.
@@Whiskey11Gaming as someone who has been shot with an old, dried sim round? Yes! I would pay for new fresh ones. These were provided to us by the US Department of Energy who, in the early 2000’s had a training budget of over $400m. Perhaps sharing is caring. Perhaps our federal government could do a little more to allow our tax dollars to find their way into local police training budgets. I get they’re all strapped for cash but it’s not because the taxpayers aren’t paying their fair share it’s because any money the government takes in “disappears” and goes elsewhere.
I worked for 24 years a a cop, and nobody knows how someone is going to react until it happens, no matter what they tell you. I've worked with ex-special forces guys that were cops that panicked when they were alone with a violent situation, and kids fresh out of college that couldn't have been calmer.
Training helps. But pretending as though you know how someone is going to react when it's 1 v 1 (or more) for your life for the first time and help is five to ten minutes away, even with all the training in the world, is nonsense until it actually happens. Anyone that tells you differently is selling something that they don't have experience in.
Uvalde is a completely different issue. This was people following bad commands that shouldn't have been followed, and very little to do with stress.
It's very unpredictable job and probably one of the hardest out there
Same with the fire service. Until that person gets their first real fire you have no idea how they are going to perform. I've trained and worked with quite a few of ex-military guys with mixed results. You would think they would have an advantage but they don't perform any better/worse than a regular guy.
And you are spot on about the command issues with any hierarchical organization. All it takes is poor commands from a senior officer to screw everything up. Everybody downstream has no choice but to follow orders.
Same scenario here. I had no military service coming into law enforcement. Two of the guys in my training class were Marines. Good guys but could not make a decision on their own. They would constantly freeze up unless being told what to do. Not saying they were way worse out in the field, but it is 100% the individual who makes a good LEO or not. You can never have enough training, but the person him or herself is the one who has to act.
Im a former peace officer who’s now working as a Safety Director for a large school district.
My take away from this event combined with the general state of readiness of my former fellow officers is…we must train & prepare to participate in our own rescue.
I'm a G-armed officer FDACS.gov & Army veteran 4yr MP/enlisted 1990s. In Florida: I've worked armed 🚓 on 2 school-campus posts in the 2010s 2020s. I'd advise any teacher, school board or principal that security officers or SROs/deputies are 1, one part of a plan. 📑 Each teacher, school principal, staff member, parent, local chief or sheriff, PTA needs to be actively involved in school safety, schedules, SOPs, notifications. I myself had parents call 📞 & report security points 2-3 days after they already took place! 🫤 I had 1 campus event, teacher-class instructor called 🚑🚒🚓 911 & never reported it! Told security or school dir! 0!
You bring up a good point. Everyone expects someone else (in particular a police officer) to save them. No one takes responsibility for saving themselves.
As a former cop, use of force trainer, and now clinical therapist, this is a stellar discussion of stress and decision-making matrices under stress.
When someone gave me Street Survial and Tactics for Patrol the guys who wrote those books were veterans who told us to dirt dive bad outcomes to learn to create better outcomes.
100% correct. Training is a continuing thing that needs to be repeated as often as possible and uniform as possible.
I didn’t know you could train the coward out of people
police NO police station has the money to PROPERLY train their cops. Local cops dont have military type budgets. Our cops dont even rock vests, no bs.
@@TravelerIntime-bq8ml of course you can.
Fear often comes from the unknown...people dont know what the outcome could be, so spiral out of control thinking the worst.
repetitions of overwhelming stress allows people to understand their reactions and make adjustments.
ie, if your natural response is to freeze or run...you can absolutely change that to fight.
I don't think so, the screening process is extreme to become a Navy Seal, police department hiring is nowhere near as exclusive. You just don't have the same psychology with cops that you do with Navy Seals.
@@sic308941they can barley even go at the range either for additional practice … like tf
Winnebago and Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales
Let's remember that the Supreme Court ruled that the individual police aren't required to go into an active shooter location.
Malum In Se/Malum Prohibitum
Nothing moral requires authority. Authority is the claim to the exclusive exemption to morality. It is a monopoly on violence. Violence is a violation because it is the initiation of aggression, not self-defense. Offense/defense are ontologically distinct. All crime has a legal equivalent (ie, taxation is extortion).
Every government is founded on Ad Baculum.
Warren v. District of Columbia
Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales
DeShaney v. Winnebago County
Lozito v. New York City
You are legally compelled via the logical fallacies Ad Populum, Ad Baculum and Ad Verecundiam to pay for protection that they are not legally obligated to provide. That's a mafia.
The highest Abrahamic value is Ignorance of Good and Evil. It's right there in Genesis. They worship Yaldabaoth, God of the Scapegoaters: God blames Man; Man blames Woman; Woman blames Serpent; Serpent blames God, more accurately - the Serpent defines God.
God Condones Child Rape
No.s 31: 17-18
God Condones Rape
Deut. 22: 28-29
God Condones Abortion
No.s 5: 11-31
Unquestioning Obedience to Government
Rom.s 13: 1-7
Ritualistic classifying surgery as a means of psychic castration, like circumcision and sub-incision, are hallmarks of patriarchal culture, a demonstration to the young that the venerable old ones still wield the all-powerful knife - and the beginning of transsexualism. Those who do not perform the cult's rite can never enjoy full social status.
Symbols of the castrated member, the tie and bow-tie, are mandatory accoutrements of the political wardrobe and phallic monuments are erected to commemorate the minds conquered long ago. Brute force is no longer necessary.
The capitalist priest class of Psychiatry, working in tandem with the State bureaucracy, regulates and polices the new Restriction and gelding of desire. Psychiatrists, along with other legal arbiters, help to obscure justice with grey areas of intentionality, mental state, etc.
Some mistake this as a system of Liberty, ignorant of the fact that Psychiatric Control is a cornerstone of the perfected Totalitarian State.
All modern illnesses come from the absurd and tragic struggle of man's inability to bridle Nature. This dogma echoes perpetually, omnisciently by understanding voices in self-help books, billboards, radio commercials and television talk shows to convince the public to practice continual self-suppression and hormonal restraint. Any deviation is an indication of something severely wrong with the individual.
Perhaps Lycanthropic Transformation Rites are in some way a Psychic Preparation for the millennial calamities that are thought to lie ahead.
Legalism is a Language of Equivocations, a process of assimilation to violence and illogic.
Etymology: government
Gubernare: to control
Mens/Mentis: mind
culture
Colere: to inhabit, to till
Cult: collective mind
-ure: process of
civilize, etc.
Civitas: city
-ize: to do/to make like
police, policy, politics, polite
Polis: city
authority
Auctor: master, father, creator
-ity: quality of
religion
Religare: to bind fast, to place an obligation on
-ion: noun-forming suffix
uniform
Uni-: one
Form: shape
They lump themselves into a group. They want all the collective praise and none of the collective blame (No True Scotsman). If they were truly concerned for their reputation they wouldn’t wear a uniform. Badges are just snowflakes.
"Everything is metamorphosed into its opposite to perpetuate itself in its expurgated form. All the powers, all the institutions speak of themselves through denial, in order to attempt, by simulating death, to escape their real death throes. [...] For example: it would be interesting to see whether the repressive apparatus would not react more violently to a simulated holdup than to a real holdup. Because the latter does nothing but disturb the order of things, the right to property, whereas the former attacks the reality principle itself." - Jean Baudrillard (Simulacra & Simulation - 1981)
"Our rulers, who rule our symbols, and so rule a symbolic class of life, impose their own infantilism on our instituitions, educational methods, and doctrines. This leads to maladjustment of the incoming generations which, being born into, are forced to develop under the un-natural (for man) semantic conditions imposed on them. In turn, they produce leaders afflicted with the old animalistic limitations. The vicious circle is completed; it results in a general state of human un-sanity, reflected again in our instituitions. And so it goes, on and on." - Alfred Korzybski (Science and Sanity: An Introduction to Non-Aristotelian Systems and General Semantics - 1933)
"I am a cosmopolitan." - Diogenes
"If I could not be Alexander, I should wish to be Diogenes." - Alexander the Great
"A man is no less a slave because he is allowed to choose a new master once in a term of years." - Lysander Spooner (No Treason: Constitution of No Authority - 1867)
"It is incredible how as soon as a people become subject, it promptly falls into such complete forgetfulness of its freedom that it can hardly be roused to the point of regaining it, obeying so easily and willingly that one is led to say that this people has not so much lost its liberty as won its enslavement." - Étienne de la Boétie (Discours de la servitude volontaire ou le Contr'un - 1577)
"Leadership in government is political power, and political power is an official form of antagonizing the people. Politics are rules imposed upon the people. They have every man in a straight jacket and without a passport he cannot move a toe. In a free world, they violate the natural rights of every citizen. They have become the weapons of political despots and if you don't think as they think you're deprived of your passport." - Michael Chaplin as Rupert Macabee (A King in New York - 1957)
"Imagine, if you will, a world filled only with criminals of whom there are two classes: those too honest to rationalize their crimes and the powerful who scapegoat them." - Rod Serling
"Eye have no Moral Obligation to ask permission from the person to whom Eye Morally Object if Eye may exercise mEye Moral Objection." - Unknown
^}%^}#%{}%{}#
@lameetcalice3845 What's your point? I see that you copy-paste the same collection of disjointed quotes in different threads. Do you feel the need to demonstrate the depth of your research and reading?
The untranslated Latin doesn't help. That will impress only if people know what you are talking about already.
Consider working on your written communication skills. Instead of exposing the reader to an avalanche of disparate ideas, try using each quote as an introduction to a separate idea, then follow with few sentences, using paragraphs, to explain the meaning and relevance of the quote to the subject matter. (There should be some relationship between the two.)
Your ideas will seem radical and obscure to the average reader like myself, not being familiar with your philosophy. Take the opportunity to explain yourself rather than loosing the reader's interest.
If you put as much work into your message as what it appears you've put into your reading, you'll be able to write a book on it.
I hope this helps!
@@GarrisonFall
Ad Hominem
Red Herring
Projection: When one cannot immediately make sense of something, so he attributes his own Non-Sense-Making to others.
You, like everyone else on the internet, are already here to look things up. You're placing your own indolence onto me.
I passed the same - compulsory - education system you did. I know exactly how you think things are "supposed to be." Deviate from the plan in the slightest, and you don't know what to do.
@@GarrisonFall
If-by-whiskey
I spent 5 months of last year in training for a federal law enforcement position. in those 5 months we had roughly 40 hours of training like they're referring to, and our instructors were overjoyed because until recently it had only been 20. when we were asked what we thought, everyone agreed we felt like we needed 400 hours of it to even start to be proficient. we only got to do 2 active shooter drills, and going back over it and seeing the mistakes that could have gotten us killed was eye opening.
Is Skinner still teaching Active Shooter Response at FLETC? Great instructor, great guy!
My foreigners I was advising for CT would get 600 plus. US military is over 1000 each year. But I was also told by local PD’s when I offered free training I did not know what comes out of your butt. Comes down to ego and attitude equals quality training to performance.
Been on the job for 12 years. Ive maxed out multiple credit cards for training because my 500+ man department refused to send me. I am looked at as crazy or over prepared within my PD, most cops wont go to training unless they are forced. Great video
I have gotten the same looks.
Facts !!! No money
How much training did the Mother have that ran into the school to save her child?
Probably none, but she wouldn't have done much good, either, had someone with a weapon looked her way and decided to smoke her.
Part of what their conversation was is that there's a right way and a wrong way to make tactical entries, and bravery doesn't make a retarded course of action functional. You can be brave, or needless of danger, and fuck up just as badly or worse than someone who is well-trained but hesitant or afraid to move.
*That mother's actions are understandable, but she was not helpful in the slightest....she was part of the problem, rather than the solution.* I applaud the police for doing their best to control an irrational antagonistic crowd of civilians interfering at a horrific crime scene. #GodBlessLawEnforcement
@@thomasg4324oh please, foh. Bunch of dudes with guns sitting around instead of doing something, a woman had more balls than all these mfs with weapons.
@@eazeyt1759
What would that woman do when she got to the LOCKED metal security door the police were desperately trying to unlock with the WRONG KEYS provided to them...and whilst other officers were securing the rest of the school fromall of the other shooters? *You are emotionally compromised, and irrational.*
@@Hapless0311she literally saved her child and others people children. This is a fact something it seems L.E. has a strong dislike for
As a retired officer and technical commander I really appreciate this. I was a better payroll officer because of being an S.R.T officer. The team I was on trained under stress constantly. Thank you so for your service and this video. Great job.
This is spot on. I’m grateful that we do a decent bit of scenario based and stress induced training at my agency.
Obviously it’s impossible to 100% accurately replicate the exact same type of stress, but you can get close and practice working through it.
But with more training you master the technique and then become more proficient in applying them in diverse situations
You never rise to the occasion, you fall back to your training. 🇺🇲
Train mentally in your head for different scenarios. "If this happens, I react this way." "What can go wrong."
Think of the late Richard NMI Marcinko US Navy ret O-5 ⚓️, the 7 Ps! ✔️
No amount of training replaces a spine
The problem is that most of the Uvalde officers would panic and mag dump over an acorn hitting their car... but when they have to go into KNOWN DANGER they freeze 💯
So panic firing or freezing is what we are left with... it's SO ridiculous ffs!!!
You could start with teaching them the law. It seems to me most of them don't even know the laws they swore an oath to uphold.
*Name one law they violated, and why you believe these cops will not even be charged, let alone convicted, with violating said law?*
Dude that's not what this video is about
@@jzero90921
We are allowed to discuss Law Enforcement's understanding of the law with regard to a SEAL's opinion on Law Enforcement's alleged "failures under stress".
@@thomasg4324 In a Just world they'd all be accomplices. If you have any morals, ethics, values, or principles you'd agree.
@@matthewgilfus1640
_" In a Just world they'd all be accomplices. If you have any morals, ethics, values, or principles you'd agree."_
Excellent conversation. What I have noticed in my career is the unwillingness to outsource training for law enforcement. Everything is in house and, because of ego, low budget, or all of the above, opportunities to have people like Andrew Sullivan come in and train the department gets passed up. Like an assembly line, departments will continue to check off the boxes. What winds up happening is you a select few LEO’s going and getting training on their own. In my opinion, these guys just skimmed the surface how big a problem this is. Not a negative on their part.
training is everything. There are citizens that have the same or higher skill level than a operator. I hope more officers take on advance training.
It’s not training. School shooters are not trained mercenaries nor the parents who were willing to defend the children. It’s about heart. It’s not John wick in that school. All it takes to beat a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. And we make the mistake of believing that cops are good guys with guns. Noooooo. They are guys with guns. They type of person they are is up for debate and isn’t tested until things crazy. Then you see who they are.
As a former cop. You're absolutely correct on the lack of training. Well said.
Cops do not operate great in 99.7% of their job. They also have a severe lacking of basic understanding of law in which they enforce. They need better training all around.
But, are you willing to pay for it? It is easy to say "Train them more." However, if you sat down low wage workers and give them lectures by the most famous law professor, do you think that would make them become lawyers? If you want people smart and capable enough to make legal analysis on their feet which requires just as much smarts as a lawyer, then what are you willing to pay to recuit them?
They need to hire better people.
@@echo_research_and_development No, I am not. Uvalde proves that cops don't deserve much of anything especially respect.
@@sana-cm7ocLikes of you whine about "Cops need to be trained better...blah blah" but you demonstrate that you do not even understand basic economics. This has nothing to do with "deserve." Stupid virtue signaling does not imrpove anything. People do not move by virtue. They move by self-intereset and incentives. You want better people, then you need to attract better people with incentives. Exactly how do you propose "They don't deserve anyting...blah blah" will imrpove anything?
You whine that "They need to hire better people." Then why would better people work for a department where you live where you are whining "They don't deserve respect...blah blah." Why would anyone with a functioning brain cell apply there?
@@sana-cm7oc YOU say "They need to hire better people." You answer me this. If I am a 21 year old smart and well educated enough to compete with a lawyer to know what action is constitutoinal while dealing with criminals under danger and capable enough to be a top shooter, why would I apply for a department in your town where people like you are saying "They do not deserve...." Especially when I have lot better options?
Police used to be trained in dealing with stressful situations when I was on the job 25 years ago. I watch these videos today and it’s obvious there is little to no training going on when it comes to proper reaction. I was a SWAT guy and I trained with LAPD SWAT. We took that back to patrol.
Start with fundamentals. So many just have zero clue about 1st, 4th, and 5th amendment rights. If you're going to swear an oath, uphold it or go work at Sonic🙄
"Most"? So you know most law enforcement personally and examined the knowledge in their heads?
@@handled99He didn’t say most… and he’s right, too many cops willfully ignore right or just don’t know what rights are
@@patrickrobinson7541 "too many"? And that's a verified fact?
@@handled99 1 would be too many considering they have the power to destroy someone’s life…
@@patrickrobinson7541 and you're infallible?
School vacation time would be a good time for law enforcement to train and familiarize themselves in schools in their jurisdiction.
ROEs for the police are way different. Risk and liability of collateral damage is much higher and they have that drilled into them. They don’t get to call in supporting fire missions and air support to level a block.
I honestly agree with you on this bro. I’m Army myself and been in 8 years. ROE’s are different for them.
I applaud the honest and bravery required to be that honest in this video.
Just wait until your brake light is out. He’s not your hero, then.
You can't effectively use your weapon if you are not even mentally prepared to. Case in point, at Uvalde.
Ret US Navy officer: SEAL Denver Rourke talks about this in his non fiction books 📚. Rourke was CO of the SpecWar Navy's BUD/S & in admin-selection programs. He explains how SOF troops were selected, trained, evaluate. SEALs, MARSOC, SF, ACE-CAG, ISA, FBI-HRT, BORTAC can't spend time, resources, $$$ on people who lack the drive or will to act, follow basic tasks, use weapons. This is why military 🪖 SOF-SF training cut or lose so many applicants.
As a former officer I saw that some just have it in them to pop to, and "arise" to just about any occasion, and I've seen others with with hours and hours of training that freeze up or hesitate, it's just in some to sacrifice themselves for others, and some just never will, it's fight or flight some fight when backed into a corner and some can't overcome the flight
My God Boys, what a great interview. I'm retired LEO 21 years. NEVER had to even contemplate an Uvalde, or any of the other school shootings. I will watch the entire interview - but to respond to your question, as a former training officer and current background investigator deputy sheriff's and police officers are NOT TRAINED properly in stress management and myriad other highly critical areas. I have bitched about this for years. As you said, departments typically just cover their butts and also are normally REactive instead of being PROactive. This all makes for a less well protected public and a public who receives the bad end of the stick when LEO's err. Love your concern and this discussion and thank you Mr. Sullivan for sharing very good information with the public. Please keep this discussion going and perhaps something positive will come of it! I hope.
Thank you. And thank you for your service!
Remember a lot of the mindset of military members I was the marine for 20 years we train for combat stress. All we do is train for combat day and day out every single scenario every day so this way when you get to battle or you go to combat it is just muscle memory.
The Uvalde cops clearly didn't have street combat experience. I worked in LA for about 20 years. Fights were a nightly occurrence. Been shot at countless times. Any boot would have worked those halls.
Political powers & agenda overules law enforcement Officers in their tracks. You saw it.
One of the best critical thinking breakdown interviews I’ve heard. Excellent points to help police. Excellent
They train around "officer safety" which is cowardice
Because some bean counter totalled up where all the money was spent and found that injured officers or folded flags cost the big bucks.
I agree. I served in Law Enforcement and in the military. State training and in service classes are not enough. Back in 2005, about a dozen of us Officers and Deputies would train twice a month out at a outdoor range...not just shooting and acquiring paper targets. We would do physical exercises plus running, building up stress and adrenalin. We would work together as a team. Shooting on the move, communicate, transitions, finding cover and concealment. Empty weapon drills, clearing rooms, exiting a vehicle ( the coffin). We would do this on our own time and our own dime. We would do this with mixed partners ( one from a Police Agency the other from the Sheriff's Office to learn to work as a team). The State "Mandated Training" is not enough. And it probably hasn't changed.
You're not wrong but one thing that has changed dramatically between 2005 and today is how expensive it is today to train on the range compared to 2005 and salaries have not kept pace with inflation, let alone ammunition costs.
Dont sugar coat it bro. Gotta keep it real in this line of work.
Fitness. There is a direct correlation between physical fitness and the ability to handle stress.
heros are born not made cowardice is a choice: God Bless our troops
Former law enforcement here in a fairly high crime rate city in America. I recently quit after doing the job less than a year and a half, I just disliked the job, wasn't very committed to it. I remember going through tactics and all of that during my six month police academy, towards the end we got to spend one week with the department SRT team. That one week was night and day from everything we did in six months of that academy, big respect for those men and women of that team.
True to a degree. But most police failures are caused by ego,and ignoring the training, they did receive
That certainly plays a part. Like when cops are encouraged to participate in civilian competitions, the excuse for avoiding them is they’re not as good as they want the civilians to think they are and don’t want to learn. And of course some attitudes in the civilian firearms industry is rather condescending.
@@sombra6153In a sense, rightfully so. You should scorn the average police officer, because the average police officer is a panicky, barely-trained piece of shit with little to no idea how to function in a scenario in which they'd most be needed.
The average 10-year cop has less capability to deal with this shit than I did as a 19-year-old dumbass running around Fallujah and Baghdad.
Scorn your police. Until they get better, and can prove it, it's all they deserve. There is literally *nothing* special about their job that should buy them an ounce of slack or freedom from judgment.
It’s truly a paradox, as rich of a country as we are, we fail so much where it matters. I know a lot of police that talk about how lack of training and bare minimum training makes it dangerous.
It's really only a certain percentage of people who get most of the wealth. Everyone else gets whatever they have the leverage to demand, regardless of their value.
9:30
That's the "holy grail" right there.
These police out here need to pursue activities that teach them how to get comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. Just being diligent with how you patrol your city or county will NOT adequately prepare you for dealing with a hopelessly callous and/or deranged person killing just to vent his or her blind rage. 🙏
I know a veteran sergeant in the police department of a very large New England city. Several years ago, he told me about the following incident. He was the sector supervisor that day, alone in his supervisor car. The entire force had recently been trained that on an active shooter call, the first two officers to arrive on scene were to pair up, make entry, move to the sound of the shooting, and engage the shooter. They received a radio call about an active shooter. As he sped to the scene, he got on the radio and reminded the responding officers that the first two were to pair up and make entry. When he arrived on scene, what do you think he found? Three officers outside the building, milling around with their guns drawn. He was PISSED. He pointed at the first two, yelled "follow me", and made entry. Fortunately, it turned out to be a false alarm -- the party who called the police mistook the janitor's broom for a rifle (yea, really). This sergeant told me that if you are ever unfortunate enough to be in an active shooter incident that you are on your own. You can't count on the police.
Everyone wants to be an operator until it’s time to do operator shit. Stress is what you feel when you are unprepared, that’s what happened with them, partly. They were also cowards.
Why in LE do we think 24 hours of training a year is ok? If you aren’t training for 250+ hours a year, minimum, you are failing your citizens, your fellow officers, and your family.
I’ve been in LE for 10 years, step up LE. Lock the fuck in and be better than the shit most cops are now days. Just speaking facts. Train up and be better
I agree 💯. YOU can control or dictate your training, skill sets, abilities. Do not think you can "fake" your way thru a critical incident? No. LTC Dave Grosman's 2009 Ed On Killing is worth reading 📚. Be up on your game too. Know the industry; brands, weapons, gear, ammunition etc.
Such a good book. Grossman has so much knowledge to help open the eyes of some people that need it. LE just gets so complacent…..we need to step up. That’s what I’m working on in my area, we have had great success in the last 3 years. Been a blessing. Be safe!
Thank you for saying it like it is. You are one of the very few. Not making excuses.
I’ve been retired since ‘97 so my initial training took place in 1968. The academy training was OK but what I gained the most from was in field training w/a senior officer next to me. Those guys back then were much different. We learned to take charge on a scene and arrest anyone who got in the way, but I don’t know what happens today. As to the coward remark I didn’t see any in my 30 years, quite the opposite in fact. It’s pretty easy to sit behind a keyboard and call names. There’s no way I will make excuses for some of the things we see today but I do believe cops are reluctant to act for fear of being fired & arrested. I wouldn’t be a cop today for anything, it’s not worth it. Finally, some of what we’re seeing is the result of hiring standards being lowered and the wrong people are coming on the job.
Whatevs... As a VOLUNTEER FF/EMT, I pursued TECC training ON MY OWN TIME (more than once), I then equipped myself with about $500 of TECC gear at my own expense. I work full-time for a state training entity, and I end up equipping MYSELF. Sh*t.
I worked for a very large Dept in Ca. Any time there were budget issues the FIRST thing to get cut was training. Seals train a lot (understatement) and are very well funded. Co and city government will not pay for the level of training necessary for the level of competence you are talking about. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the training workup for a Seal team deployment longer than the actual deployment? One team is training while one is on deployment and then they rotate? Law enforcement doesn't have the budget for it. My dept had A LOT of people who could barely qualify. People only there for the paycheck. I had a captain tell me one time that 80% of the work was done by 20% of the deputies.
100% accurate. Our range training just got cut down to 2 ranges a year due to budget issues. Unreal.
If you rely only on your agency for training, you are failing yourself, your family, your partners, and the community for which you work. I can’t tell you how much of my own money and vacation time I used throughout my career to develop myself. It got me a lot of positions because I was better trained than many of my peers. There are no excuses other than lazy selfishness for not developing yourself above what your agency provides.
@@Mounty621 I’m not saying I don’t I’m just saying the agency has a responsibility to the community to better train their officers. The responsibility falls on the city/agency. Of course people should train on their own and better their skills but it isn’t all on the officer to spend hundreds/thousands of their own dollars for this.
@@kyleleslie7795I wholeheartedly agree that the agency has the responsibility to train their officers. However, is that going to be the excuse I'm giving to my family when I get killed in the line of duty because something I could have been better prepared for? I had the luxury of being at agencies that allowed us instructors to develop fantastic range/tactics courses. As you know, not all officers put in the effort regardless. Now think of small town, middle America officers who get paid crap, have mediocre benefits, and then their agency is so podunk their budget is next to nothing. It has to fall back on you as an officer at some point. It sucks, but what is "your" life worth?
The same basic points were made by Bernard Kerik & Jack Maple; NYPD. Kerik, a former US Army MP-enlisted, 82nd Airborne & PC(police Commissioner, 09/11) wrote about it- The Lost Son. Maple who created the popular COMSTAT system, highly respected also said how in most US police 🚔 agencies: 15% of the sworn personnel make the cases, get collars. 85% just act or wait to be told what to do.
I spent 26 years as a patrol LE in one of the top murder capitals in the nation. My high stress level training came from on the street level incidents. I’ve confronted multiple suspects that have been armed and the most dangerous of all pit bulls that don’t know surrender of give up only kill.
You’re video is 100% spot on that as a whole LE training and tactics vary so much from agency to agency and state to state it’s unbelievable. Too many narcissists chiefs, sheriffs and training instructors that think their John Rambo. We did 6-8 hours of building clearing and force on force training most of which for most part useless.
First they need to train on learning the constitution and not looking for every excuse to violate it when their feelings get hurt. Next work on actual high stress performance.
They are not peace officers. They are revenue generating officers.
Absolutely perfect example is the killer Acorn that caused the police officer to fire on his own patrol vehicle with the criminal in handcuffs in the back seat inside.
Point calling out loud is a great way to manage stress, keep your ducks in a row, and not get tunnel vision.
Can you explain this, please?
@@BlankonPurpose-d3xen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling
You can't always point, but simply being vocal helps during stress
The lowering of standards and DEI for law enforcement applicants has contributed to this. I say this as retired officer who served from 1974 -2016. And I’ve been in two gunfights, one in 1985 and one in 2014.
The lowering of standards and DEI for law enforcement applicants may be a contributing factor but you left out a couple crucial elements. The police culture here in the good 'ol U.S of A attracts people with good intentions and then quickly turns it into a us versus them mentality. They violate their oath, adhere to the corrupt culture and are protected by that culture. Thus, the "blue wall of silence." Not to mention the ego driven cowards that get drunk with the power they find themselves with and exploit it. Yup....it's real.
The police use training as an excuse for their mistakes & to escape liability.
Yes we need more training. Some of us search out training, but until we actually get realistic budgets(we don't get devgru budgets), the majority will not get training. On top of that most of the training we get is lawyer approved to cover the depts butt. That's it.
Back in the late 70’s law enforcement were taught to respond to what ever calls came up and handle the situation. Once LAPD established a SWAT team the rules of engagement changed to secure the area and wait for SWAT. This was a standard operating procedures until Columbine occurred. After Columbine the rules of engagement changed back to if victims are being shot respond and address the issue. In the old days you had a revolver and a shotgun an AR was almost unheard of. The biggest issue with law enforcement administrators is liability liability. Advanced training engaging armed suspects should absolutely be required. As always and unfortunately its a budget issue.
Budget issue, while fire departments in the same municipalities have the latest and greatest training/equipment…
Budget? No it is not. It is a hiring issue. Uvalde proved that. They had training and equipment and chose to arrest the parents instead of trying to save the children. The cops let those children die. I don't need cops. They have become a standing army our forefathers warned us about.
I teach ccw and defensive shooting skills for private citizens. This was The Most honest conversation ever on the subject. Especially the rising to the occasional remarks. I was always told and I also tell our students you do not rise to the occasion you fall to your lowest level of training. As a reminder that students need to train often to stay sharp
SEALS are not cops.
I think the main issue is most police officers don’t live and work in a continual high stress city. Those who do will react without hesitation in just about every situation. Training is good but it won’t help if an officer isn’t already working in a continually stressful city.
NAVY SEALS don’t require search warrants. It’s a different mindset on the streets, where your job is to ‘Serve and Protect’.
You need a search warrant to stop a school shooting?
In Atlanta about 15 yrs ago, this female officer found involved in a fire fight in a parking lot behind her car, with one single suspect on the run from something. Some ricochet or a fragment of a bullet got her firing hand that she trains on. She was able to return effective fire on the suspect from her non-dominant hand, and put him down, to end the situation. Most people dont train with their opposite/ weaker hand with a pistol.....while their main stronger hand is injured.
Seeing that most Ops are kept quiet, do we know when SEALS fail?
Only when they write a book about it . . .
When they fall off a ladder on the side of a boat.
Little slip-ups that can't really be trained out of the situation. Just the nature of the risks of the job.
Most are failures, you only hear about the success stories or deaths.
Elite Units fail all the time in training to work on preventing those failure points. Thing is once your on a 2 way range the other guys get a say as well. I cant think of any OIF Ops but OEF(Afghanistan) you have Operation Red Wing and Battle of Takur Ghar which were both Seal operations predominately. In Africa you had the Tongo Tongo Ambush which was Green Beanies. Going back to the 90s Somalia Black Hawk Down was a cascade of failures from Command down to the Delta(CAG) and Rangers on the ground.
Here is the thing though with just about every major failure that Elite Units have in combat. It drives changes in Tactics and Operating Procedures that will trickle from those Tier 1 units down to every conventional Unit.
Even SAS can fail. One cold desert night costs lives of the men.
Combat is one thing. Weather is another.
he's so right. Police need more training ... a lot more training. And exposure to scenarios to desensitize them to the stress and conditions and allow them to perform under pressure.
Look dude, I am sure you were/are a top flight operator in the teams. But stop commenting on police training until you have put in your time actually being responsible for yourself, your partner and your community every night, every weekend, every holiday without break for 30 years. See, cops do not get to train 94% of the time and be on the street for the other 6. Cops are so underfunded and under supported by their communities that they serve (unlike our military) that it is frankly impossible to get anywhere near the level of tactical training that regular grunts get and STILL be available 24/365 without replacement. I agree more training would be great, but before you state that you are the answer to the problem, you need to understand the problem ( it is more than not enough tactical training) from all angles. Thank you. (28+ years on the street every night)
It was never intended to be that way. An armed society is a polite society.
Honestly, there are so many other issues that training is just part of the many issues people have with the police. Trust is another contributing factor.
So, my thing with Uvalde, especially knowing a guy on the BORTAC SOD that responded, is that the responding officers on the initial response not only failed to drive momentum, but the IC passed out bad information to responding follow up officers. If you watch Mike Glover on Cleared Hot Podcast, he talked to the BORTAC Commander, who said his responding agents were told that it was a barricaded shooter and no innocent people in the classroom. That came straight from the IC, who was that fat Uvalde School District Chief. It's also crazy how few acted, all the way from local, to state, to federal.
Cops are not always like that though. This was, unfortunately an inevitable failure that was bound to eventually occur in our current climate. This tragedy spurred so much training in tactics throughout agencies. Right after this, in Nashville, those cops took care of business and probably had Uvalde in the back of their minds.
I agree with most of this except, training won't ever overcome cowardice and a lack of honor. They let those children die.
@@sana-cm7oc exactly! This is absolutely true, and while some could tacitly claim ignorance, the officers first on scene knew that kids were in there and didn't make entry or even pass around the information.
@@ce6654 Wow. Sounds like they knew they screwed up and were trying to hide it. They were hoping to stall until it became a barricaded suspect.
@@ce6654
They might have . The IC was told and knew. They told the IC
@sana-cm7oc I really don't know what the motivation was. One officer's wife was a teacher who was trapped in the classroom, and he didn't force entry even though she called him dying. BORTAC are the only ones who decided to do something, but they're cut from a whole other cloth.
I think Jocko said something quite similar. Special Forces are trained extensively to handle high stress, high threat situations in case they get deployed into a situation that needs that training. Police get deployed daily where at any moment they can end up in a high stress, high threat situation with little training in how to handle it. Don't take that as a quote, it's been a couple years since I heard that interview.
in Uvalde they were just basic cowards
Agree so much on this! Once you drop in special training next to a patrol officer it’s a completely different dynamic. But the average patrol officer is really only tooled well for everyday work & reports etc.
Low shooting skills among police are common. Data: th-cam.com/video/9AODFtnbSC0/w-d-xo.html
True!
I am a former police officer of 15 years. Management harassed officers who had a lot of seniority out of their jobs, because they cost too much money, so I became a victim of that. Rather than put up with it, I resigned, manager was grinning the whole time I submitted my resignation, so there you go, toxic workplace.
The thing that upsets me about this conversation is that when I got out of the Marine Corps in 2012 I was looking for jobs in law enforcement. I highlighted my 12 years of real world combat experience for OEF/OIF in the Marine Corps Infantry within the applications. I also took note of the fact that my test scores, physical and aptitude, were at the top of the class (admittedly there was a couple occasions I came in 2nd to some of the other applicants but on both of these occasions these departments were looking to hire and train 5-10 cadets to begin training). After going through this process 12 TIMES, I was determined to get to the bottom of why I wasn't getting hired. Lucky for me one of the Police Chiefs was a retired USMC MSGT who I felt comfortable talking to and he explained to me that my combat experience was being looked at as a liability to these departments thinking I would be "overly aggressive". From that point forward I never submitted another application for law enforcement. Instead of continuing to serve I chose a career in financial investments & I'm sure my family is MUCH happier with this result as opposed to me being a disgruntled cop of 12 years.
So agree! Training is not done by checking boxes. Training is an all-the-time thing. If you work 5 days a week. One of the additional days "off" should be spent in training. Especially for police. Or, for that matter, any first responder. Whatever it may be. It can be fun. It can be grueling. It can be an "aha" moment. It can be physical. It can be mental. It can be knowledge. That's the great thing about training. It can be anything, you need it to be, to become better.
I have preached staying armed, staying trained and staying ready to my group in real life - hoping we "do the right thing" if thrust into a situation where "doing the right thing" will save lives -- but compared to THESE guys, I'm a nobody with no talent. That tells me everything I need to know about myself. Finding guys like these and learning from them is absolutely necessary if we plan to protect our loved ones going into the new, very common, urban-based threats. I'm a 20-year navy veteran, trained on three different firearms for shipboard defense, but I recognize I'm nothing more than a "joe 6-pack" (that's beer, not abs) - but I know I NEED to learn from guys like these. Finding them .... now THERE'S the trick! :)
If we pay you, and give you a gun to protect the community, then you need to be ready to put your life on the line. If your not ready, dont take the job. Kudos to the training you do.
Cape May County Police Academy Class 234...some of the best training I got was stressed as hell...the DI's there don't play. Loved it
I am very lucky that I worked at a large southern police department that really focused on training. The young swat officers ran our critical incident training and they pushed us very hard. We had a critical incident, that you would know, if I told you about it. I was the supervisor that night and was so proud of how all the officers fell back on their training and performed successfully. Officers were arriving on scene and I was in route and ordered them into the building, they did not hesitate and went in and cleared it. I arrived one minute later and the scene was horrific, we did a secondary search and located more people, alive hiding. The issue is that many small departments don’t have the budgets to train properly. Our academy is and always has been way behind on tactics, they really just teach to reduce liability, that’s it. You discuss stress, as long as you know the signs of it, you can make adjustments to how you react. I’m afraid that takes experience and training to be able to recognize it. Training is very important, you fall back on your lowest level of training when under stress. Stress and the effects after the event cannot be underestimated either. Thank you for training officers now. I’m retired, but I am so proud of the officers that i worked with over the years!
I was an LEO trainer for several years. I tried my best to “stress inoculate” our recruits. We also did simunition training every year. It was beneficial but was done so seldom I never was able to correlate the training with real world incidents. Some officers are warriors and others just want a paycheck. It is difficult to train rank and file officers to a high level when they are not fully engaged.
This man nailed it! I worked with 2 departments in my 22 year Police career. My fist provided a lot of training, mostly concentrating on scenario based firearms training and managing stress. My second department provided no training. They just checked boxes. We as citizens should demand better real life high risk training. If your a young Officer seek out the teaining whether or not your department provides it.
I live in the Las Vegas valley. I see the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department in almost DAILY shootings. In the huge majority of officer involved shootings" I see the LVMPD doing well, using restraint when practical and using deadly force when needed. I think these officers are, compared to many other large metropolitan departments, well trained, especially in teamwork in stressful situations.
So professional is our LVMPD SWAT teams train OTHER SWAT teams. Kudos to LVMPD.
I feel like security has the same problem. Could definitely benefit from training in stressful situations.
I don't need training to go rescue a school full of kids getting slaughtered. I do need balls though and none of these cops had them. Pathetic!
In footage i saw two officers were using a hand sanitizer the was on the wall while they could hear children being shot that footage has now disappeared from the Internet
Retired in LE after 33 years....I do believe most of my brothers and sisters would have not hesitated to go in alone to stop that active shooter. Regardless of orders or policy. I could not stand there hiding hearing multiple gunshots and screams of children being murdered. Having been in multiple high stress situations proves this to me. There are many who should not be in LE and especially supervisory roles.
every single uvalde cop that was on scene is an absolute coward and have ZERO business wearing a uniform...they should be prosecuted for that. this has nothing to do with training
You are 100% right that training needs to be better. In my career I was denied training 99% of the time even if I was willing to pay for it. If it didn’t check a CYA box I couldn’t go.
The other thing we really need to look at is the toxic environment that most officers work under. The leadership is lacking in every department I have interacted with. The officer who responds to that critical incident isn’t just thinking about his life or the life of those in danger, but also his family and future. He has to worry about his career, his freedom, public perception and if he is going to be employed and able to provide for his family. All of this on top of the incident.
The office doesn’t just need to respond to tactical incidents but mental heath and relationship and a hundred other things that he was never really trained or intended to deal with. Most towns and counties expect officers to be an MD a psychologist a marriage cluster an attorney a DEVGRU operator and never provide any (or the minimum) training. They expect all this while paying minimum wage or just barely over (at least the state I worked). This is near criminal negligence on the government’s part.
We need to do better. Just my $0.02.
When you are walking in a circle you have the dilemma of facing danger or not. You leave a point to face danger and return to the same point for fear of your life, that is the back-and-forth circle.
The problem is police are forced to do too many jobs outside of policing. So their training is super streamlined. Next law enforcement is a revolving door. Across the nation every department in the justice field is understaffed to incredible levels. This forces mandated overtime and that forces work fatigue. Making them all very tired day after day. Not a good foundation to give heighten training scanarios or for them to encounter a real one with lives on the line either.
A lot of police are operating every day in inner city war zones. My friend's son pulled his fellow officer out of his patrol car, shot dead by a carjacker in North Philadelphia. Military special forces normally have full support from their military and civilian superiors, cops are guilty until proven innocent and no one is backing them up.
Cops are immune from the law until they cross a politically connected person. They can break into any place they want, bully anyone who gets in the way, then rob people blind. They also are allowed to have machineguns when they want. Maybe in the rurals the cops don't have armored personnel carriers. But they only get no one backing them up if they tried arresting another cop. The only thing the American police aren't allowed are fighter Jets, and Nuclear warheads. They asked for those and got denied.
Police departments and sheriff's offices need more funding for this critical response training.
Funny how you brought up Skydiving? My First jump was on s Static Line. My mind went blank until I felt the Shoot open! Then i realized I was entangled? I quickly fixed that! They told us the First Command on the radio Was to turn Right! MY radio wasn't working?!?! I Turned Left to tell them I couldn't communicate! Enjoying the view and screwing with the radio ( I Had the landing sight in View). Somehow The radio worked?
I Did another Jump that day Perfect!
The Human Mind Can Only Handle So Much the First time Before Shutting down! Experience and Repetition Is the Reason we Excel!