What are your thoughts about Peter Pan 2: Return to Neverland?? I actually enjoyed the sequel more than this one tbh. And yes, the Tinkerbell movies are really adorable and made her so much more likable than her original character. I really don’t understand why so many people fell in love with her back then, especially considering her original personality in the books.
@@kristinahuchison2511 I like both versions of Tinkerbell. I like the og, because her attitude is funny to me; and I like the current version because her sweetness is endearing. I tend to like polar opposite/strong personalities. Other people might have similar feelings.
It’s not crazy at all. To think one of the worst Disney movies made great franchise as the TV show and the Tinker Bell movies were great and actually showed imagination and character (something the first movie did not have at all).
I personally loved Peter Pan for its childlike wonder and the contrast between the boys who never wanted to grow up and Wendy who knew it was for the better. I also like the last scene when her parents see the ship remembering seeing the ship before, reminding the audience that growing up doesn't mean abandoning your childhood. I also REALLY really like You can fly
It's just my personal opinion, but another point I wish you'd have mention is M. Darling (and not only cause I find him funny). To me, he is actually a good incarnation of the theme, not wanting to grow up that is. He's very strict and easily annoyed by his children's childish games and fasination for fairytales, considering it's useless and distracts them from "more serious things of life". Yet, we see he's not a mean guy, we understand that what he actually wants is the best for his family and thus, thinks his children need to grow up fast. But in the end, he accepts that those "childish games" make the children happy and that they have the right to enjoy it while they're still young. We even see him remembering how this same magic used to make him happy when he was young, as, in the last scene (one of my fav of the movie) he gazes up the boat in the sky in wonder with his family. So yeah we don't see a lot of him but I still really like his small character development. Also Hans Conried did an amazing job vocing captain Hook (even tho I grew up with the french version)
@@la_theiere_likes_tea good point you got and yes, Conried is the reason why Hook was a great villain and would have been the reason why King Stefan should not be a jerk with a heart of gold
I totally agree and yes that is such a nice scene. And than there is Mary who despite like George not believing in Peter Pan, was accepting of there childish games, which is how Mary and George is able to balance each other. It’s also nice when she tired to assure Wendy, John, and Michael that he wasn’t a mean guy, try to get them to understand why he acted the way he did, he does love them who wants what’s best for his family.
I do appreciate how Captain Hook acts as a negative adult role model for Peter, in the fact that Peter doesn't want to grow up, especially if it means being like Hook
I think that's the thing most people don't understand about the characters. Hook is resentful because he's old and he's afraid of his own mortality. He's envious of Peter's youth and unlimited potential. Peter hates Captain Hook because Hook's resentful and bitter and who'd want to grow up if that's all you have to look forward too.
@@alorapendrak9752 and that's true! That's part of the fascinating psychology of a resentful Captain Hook. We all know extremely cockey 12 year old boys. Kind of comes with the territory. Yet very rarely do we actually want to kill them. What lies underneath that urge to kill a kid is where the fascinating stuff lies.
I used to like Cars 2 due to the spy action sequences but after realizing that it isn’t a great sequel, not my least favorite Pixar movie! My Least Favorite Pixar movie is the Incredibles 2 which is disappointing!
I feel Peter Pan's personality works for the film. Somewhat. He is just some kid that thinks he's cool, and wants to stay immature forever instead of growing as a person. Maybe the film would have been better if along the way he learned not to fear growing up and let loose his insecurites and fears instead of acting like that one playground bully whose only leverage is he's slightly taller.
Neither Peter nor Tinkerbell are supposed to be likable. In the novel, Peter is supposed to be a tragic character. That being said I loathe Disney movie Peter. Walt Disney seems to have missed the point of Peter Pan. He's not just a jerky kid he's sorta alien in the books despite having human emotions. Let me explain Peter forgets everything and that is a big part of his character. The only way he can stay innocent its implied is if every joy, every betrayal, and every bad emotion feels like its his first time. It is the secret of Peter's eternal youth every bad thing he's done forgotten, and everyone he ever knew also forgotten everything he ever did is a new experience. Its also hinted he does remember deep down because his nightmares are bad and pretty frequent. Also you don't like novel peter but you feel for him because he's experiences such a wide rang of emotions and fears throughout the book. the reader gets to see multiple sides to Peter. Like yes this is the kid who laughed when Micheal nearly fell to his death. But he also fly's halfway to the afterlife with the souls of dead kids. as far as he can because he doesn't want them to be frightened. Yeah he's a jerk but Peter has these little moments of tenderness too. Its not a matter of likeability but Disney's Peter is well flat. he's a jerk with no lairs to it. book Peter is a jerk but there's a lot of exploration of as to what motivates him. whereas with Disney peter we don't get any of that. Also hook isn't pathetic in the novel so novel peter doesn't come off as a bully to him. If anything novel Hook is awful I love him but he tries to poisen children and later whip them bloody because they saw him afraid. Also Novel Hook states he wants to murder Peter because he finds him annoying in an inner monolog way more then the hand thing.
I think that’s the point. You’re not supposed to be Hook or Peter, you’re supposed to be both. You need to grow up and acknowledge the bad things as well as the good
Most of the 1950s-1960s Disney "Silver Age" movies just kinda exist in my mind. They don't reach the greatness of some of the Disney "Golden Age" or "Renaissance" movies, but I don't think any of them are downright bad. However, it is interesting that the Silver Age movies were the last ones that had input from Walt Disney himself.
For me, most of them are good. Not amazing but good. They aren’t the greatest things the company has put out, they are flawed in areas and there are aspects of them which haven’t aged well but they are solid, enjoyable experiences for me.
I think everyone knew Peter Pan is a jerk, because that is the point... he is the embodiment of misplaced childish brabado... JM Barrie himself wrote him as a jerk...
Well...yeah. He's literally the "boy who never grew up." That's the whole point of his character. He was never a goodie two-shoes. He's brash and loses interest in anyone who can't keep up with his own existence. There is even a syndrome named after him.
This is one of those movies I never really got why it became so popular. I don’t necessarily dislike or hate it, but I find the title character and especially Tinkerbell (secondary mascot of Walt Disney Studios) to be so unlikable. I much rather prefer the sequel, especially with Jane’s more no nonsense personality and Peter isn’t such a showoff and jerk.
The movie got so popular because it already was an extremely popular book/play by J.M. Barry. And Peter Pan and Tinkerbell were meant to be quite mean spirited.
They also made tinker bell unlikable. She starts off very bratty and entitled then eventually becomes an attempted murderer when she tries to kill Wendy. This would be no issue if she was meant to be a villain, but she is supposed to be someone we are supposed to root for.
@@Edwinaopt And the funny thing is that Wendy is in my opinion the most likeable person in the film. Seeing another supposed hero try to kill her just really makes her that much less sympathetic.
I don’t blame you, there’s some certain, “tasteless” moments here and there, plus I don’t think it’s the best narrative even as an adaptation, but I don’t think it’s weak either, just think the villains are really the only highlight of the movie for me cause it’s a riot.
Most Disney films that came out before the Renaissance era are "stuff happens" films, rather than being plot-driven. Peter Pan suffers from this, but it's hardly a problem exclusive to it. Think about it - Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, Alice in Wonderland, The Sword in the Stone, The Jungle Book, The Aristocats, etc. Stuff happens, the end. Disney movies didn't start becoming consistently plot-driven until The Little Mermaid, and I think it's because Howard Ashman, who came from a musical theatre background, is who prompted Disney to start writing their movies as though they were creating Broadway musicals, which gave them much more structure. Disney didn't even hire screenwriters until the Renaissance era, as all of their prior films had been storyboard-driven, and it shows.
I think that is part of the reason why some movies like Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio really stand out, because they have much stronger core stories and characters as the focus.
@@Rockotarthepurplehatguy I agree! Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty have more well-structured narratives compared to a lot of the other films of their eras.
I would love to see you do a video on the 2003 version of Peter Pan at some point. I agree with pretty much everything you said in this video, and I think the 2003 version improves on the weaknesses you mentioned in the classic Disney version in every way. It has so much more depth in its storytelling and overall themes. With the in-depth style of analysis your video essays have, I know you'd be able to perfectly explain why it works.
I did find Peter Pan chopping off Hook's hand "as a childish prank" a bit odd. I did kind of make up this theory behind this situation. Like, Hook tricked or backstabbed Peter in some other situation (maybe stole or destroyed something from Peter that he cherished so much) and Peter decided to get back at Hook. So he must've set up some elaborate prank to get back at Hook and his crew. In the process, though, Hook gets his hand sliced off. Probably wasn't Peter's intention, but he rolled with it, as he thinks it was a fair trade for whatever Hook took from him. And to add more salt to the wound (no pun intended), he threw his hand to the crocodile, which ended up liking the taste that it decided to chase Hook to the ends of Neverland. Sure, they didn't explain the motivation in the film (outside of it being a "childish prank"), but I like to imagine this is the reason, justifying Peter's actions and Hook still remains a villain.
Peter Pan is a mythic story. More akin to an old folk lore or a Greek tale. It's has to be interpreted by a different set of rules than modern movies. It's meaning is found in it's symbolic representations, not in what happens on a plot level. Really, the hand thing starts to make more sense when you look at it symbolically.
Ok, so the part at the end of the Peter section about the film not realising Peter's carelessness is incorrect, and extremely so. The whole point of his character is that he's an unreliable, chaotic child who doesn't know how to handle serious situations.
This movie was less "plot" driven and more "stuff happens" and you don't care as much about what will happen as a result. The 1991 film Hook is a Peter Pan story with a plot worth getting invested in and is a huge improvement to the original. I don't think Peter is supposed to be a what we would call a "hero," he's an immature boy in a permanent state of arrested development and kinda shows the audience that growing up is preferable to becoming like that. Little kids can play games and pretend they're Peter Pan for fun, but eventually you gotta come back to reality.
While I love this movie, there are 2 more complaints I would have brought up. 1. How unlikeable Tinkerbelle is. Especially when she literally tries to have Wendy killed and never shows any repentance for it! Still don’t know why Disney chose THIS character to be one of their mascots. 2. Mr. Smee, despite being one of the villains, is KIND to his enemies! WHY? He’s supposed to be one of the VILLAINS! So by making him KIND, that makes our heroes look like the bad guys!
I plan on talking more about Tinkerbell and her initial unlikeable personality in my eventual video on the first Tinkerbell movie (showing how that movie made her a better character). So I decided to hold off on those comments to avoid repeating myself too much in the future. But yes I agree, I don't mind Smee though, he exists mostly for comedy so he doesn't have to be heartless to work in my view, but I can see how that would bother you.
When I rewatched this in like 2020-21 I was SPEECHLESS with the cave scene where Peter traps Hook then gives Smee a gun to see if he'll accidentally kill his own captain like hello??
To be fair, the only reason I liked this movie is because it was the only movie that would put me to sleep as a kid. Don’t know why, but I think I liked the colors and the landscapes of the scenes. Now that I’m older, I realize that Peter Pan wasn’t, well… ‘all that’.
WHoever said a protagonist needs to be a hero? *Gone With the Wind* had villain protagonists, *Titanic* had one who was a total jerk, but it doesn't lessen them as movies.
@@BIGTHANKSHEESH "Still sucks" Idk, the 2003 version put a new twist and enhanced it with changes and improvements to the original story. Not to mention the ending line is absolutely PERFECT.
I remember reading somewhere that Captain Hook actually used to BE one of the Lost Boys and that's why he's trying to destroy Peter Pan and the Lost Boys are actually kids Peter kidnapped because he was lonely. NOT GOOD!
@@RockotarthepurplehatguyI heard the live action remake confirmed that theory into its continuity. Honestly the Silver Age got the best Disney live action remakes. You got the holy trinity of actually great remakes in Cinderella, The Jungle Book, and Lady and The Tramp, the good enough 101 Dalmatians, the split fanbase of Maleficent (Sleeping Beauty) and the Alice in Wonderland duology, and the slightly better Peter Pan & Wendy. All that’s left is the Sword in the Stone. Not even Disney can mess up fixing that snooze fest up.
Barrie mostly meant Peter to be a dead child, or a child who was never born. The Lost Boys were kids who died early and taken away because of that. Hook was an Eton schoolboy who secretly regretted being a pirate, but couldn't go back.
Once upon a time, Peter Pan was my favorite Disney movie. In fact, one Halloween I dressed as Peter and a friend of mine was Tinkerbell. But I rarely watch the movie these days, because as you said, Hook and Smee are the only really good elements of the movie. I’d much rather watch The Great Mouse Detective or 101 Dalmatians if I’m in the mood for a classic Disney film. And I’m definitely interested in what you have to say about Return to Neverland, I never watched it because I absolutely HATED it’s teaser, so I have no idea how good or bad it is.
I think people often overlook the fact that the story isn't really about Peter, the main internal conflict is Wendy's. In the start of the movie her father (who's voiced by the same guy who voices Hook,coincidence, I think not) in rage tells her that she's too old to live in the nursery and dream about fairytales. She's gonna grow up soon and has too conform to the traditional women gender roles, which she isn't happy about, because she still feels like a kid. Suddenly on the same night her dream boy appears to her delight. She realized quickly however that Peter isn't really who she thought he'd be, setting up the same misogynistic ideas alot of adults in her life probably do. When she arrives in Neverland, her troubles don't end. She can't really relate to the boys sense of adventure and young curiosity. When the boys play in the native American's camp, she's constantly told that she's not allowed to have fun nor dance, she has to work for the boys. She's also constantly put in the position of acting as a mother, something she doesn't really have trouble with, but clearly does it out of obligation for the lost boys and her actual want. And on the other end of the spectrum we have Tinker Bell and the Mermaids who try to borderline kill her, because of their jealousy for Peter. While I'd say that's definitely an outdated take on the idea (the girls hate eachother because of their crushes on boys), it's still something women deal with to this day, feeling defenseless when confronting girls your age who hate you for no explicit reason. That's also why I think Tinker Bell is an important character to this movie. It shows how unnecessary conflict and jealousy between women can result in complete disasters. All in all after Wendy comes back home, she's still charmed, by the adventure despite everything. She showed that she can stand up for herself and be mature, despite being young. Her mother reassures her that she still has time and can enjoy her childhood. Growing up and struggles of becoming a woman will come sooner or later, but she'll figure it out. Idk I think I personally really appreciated that aspect of the message. I am terrified of becoming an official adult next year, despite of everyone around me saying that it's gonna be fun. The message about misogyny and gender roles is also quite relatable for someone who has a queer gender and sexual identity in a conservative setting and often has struggled tolerating the belated stereotypisin of other groups, by other individuals. It was just something that really stuck out to me, when I first watched the movie a month ago. Yeah the movie is very dated in several areas, but I'll go on a record to say the message is quite profound compared to other Disney movies from the same era. Not every aspect and character works for me but I still deeply appreciate this film. (Crazy how I went on an entire tangent about Peter Pan, without even really mentioning him)
Great video! Even as a child, and after many rewatching, I still don’t get Peter Pan. Before I let go of my tight nostalgia goggles to let air in and realize Wish was worse, Peter Pan was my least favorite Disney movie. For point 1: the all the kids (except Wendy) are annoying, with Wendy not exactly being memorable as she is the definition of a good character stuck in a bad movie. BOTH Tinker Bell and Peter Pan just have many signs of being Sociopathic (Tinker Bell obviously, but Peter Pan thinking it was funny to feed Captain Hook’s hand to a crocodile?). The book is supposed to touch on the evils of eternal innocence (innocence to the point of not understanding why morality and consideration is important), which is not good for what the movie wants to do in portraying Peter Pan as a hero. For Point 2: Captain Hook’s fear of the crocodile 🐊 legitimately makes me want to cry, and I feel sorry for Smee too (I grew up with the TV show, so I just never got why he’s Mr. Smee, rather than just Smee like in the show). Smee is like Wendy in being a good character in a bad movie, as he never came up as a suck up like you said, he feels like Gaston’s sidekick in just being his most supportive and talented yet clumsy and incompetent friend. The exposition dumping makes sense of a cautious guy like Smee, so the alarm clock info isn’t bad, but Captain Hook exposition dumping doesn’t makes sense. That scene should have been after the first Crocodile appearance. Of course for Point 3: The racism and sexism are awful (obviously), as the way the native Americans are supposed to represent the consequences of not growing up is just disgusting. The way the female characters act or/and look are just terrible except for Wendy (who is just discount Alice). Also in point 3.5: The choir music is boring and a bit ear bleeding, as the choir reminds me of terrible offensive minstrel choir music. The actual offensive song is tied to the Dumbo worker song in being the worst. The Siamese Cat Song isn’t racist as the lyrics aren’t anything bad. The only bad thing Si and Am have are the buck teeth and the gong effect, the latter already being removed. Just edit the teeth and there’s nothing wrong left (unlike Shun Gon, that is yellow and actively used Chopsticks 🥢). In fact, Si and Am look better than Walt Disney’s comics to promote the movie which had the buck teeth longer and them with yellow fur. Peter Pan (and Dumbo) added more racism rather than subtract like Lady and the Tramp did. Speaking of villains (since Si and Am are Disney villains) the pirate villain song sucks. Again with an annoying choir along with no menace and even no charm to compensate (like Honest John, Gaston, and Ratcliffe when they sing the funny villain song). And who is going to remember “The second star to the right” when casual fans can remember anything else in the Disney Renaissance or even the golden age? I think your Disney Unholy Trinity all had better songs. On to Point 4: The visuals are boring, as the flying sequences are boring compared to the TV show where a trail of Pixie Dust gets left behind. This of course affects the climax, as there no magic, just throwing projectiles and sword swinging with over exaggerated movements rivaling The Lion King’s slow motion fight. Finally for Point 5: Alice in Wonderland, for its few shortcomings, still does what Peter Pan failed to do so much better and manages to age better. I kept thinking “if they already made Alice in Wonderland, why bother with another fairy tale isekai with less imagination?”. Peter Pan is like Happy Feet and Frozen, catering to a trend that long passed. The sequel improves some things (like Peter Pan’s character), but it accidentally insults World War 2 survivors (as in War, if you don’t change to adapt, you could die, like how Jambareeqi’s Grandmother had to learn how to survive). But, I will admit that Jake and the Neverland Pirates and the Tinker Bell movies are legitimately great 👍. The TV show toned down Captain Hook’s dread and made it Team Rocket like, making the anger and screaming actually funny. The modern era perfected comedy duos like Team Rocket and Bebop and Rocksteady, so of course the beta duo of Captain Hook and Smee finally got fixed. His new crew of just 2 pirates with instruments legitimately gives better songs than his old crew did. And the Tinker Bell movies made Tinker Bell an actual compelling kind character with amazing world building on the fairy world.
Your take on the Pirates choir is fascinating, and so I want to hear how you feel about A Pirate's Life For Me, the theme for the Pirates of the Caribbean ride sung by the exact same group (I sometimes forget it’s not from this film~)?
@@iphaoftheisles3952I’ll tell you when I hear it. I honestly never watched any of the Pirates of Caribbean movies, but I always wanted to at some point. I’ll tell you when I get to hear the music, but I feel like it’s going to sound better maybe since Peter Pan had to also deal with shortcomings of audio from an earlier time and the fact the Pirates of Caribbean clearly had more imagination than Peter Pan.
@@juanca2567 Oh, but the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, from whence “A Pirate's Life For Me” originates, debuted in 1967, only fourteen years after Peter Pan (like I said, it features the voices of the Pirate Chorus from Peter Pan), and the films came out many, many years later, loosely inspired by the ride, inserting that old tune in every now-and-then, but mostly being a completely different thing, and, eventually, as the films succeeded, the original ride was remade in their likeness~ but I’m talking about the original ride’s theme!
I'm sorry but Peter Pan is supposed to be a bit of a jerk, in many ways he's the true villain of the film and it works in the films favour. Yes, he's unlikeable, but that's simply who he is. He embodies childlike chaos and immaturity. This is not an issue so much as it is an issue you take. Also, Wendy, John and Micheal are indeed passive protagonists, but this is not an inherent flaw. They get to explore the good and bad of childhood and what that could mean for them if they choose to remain in Neverland forever, then they make an informed decision. Captain Hook embodies the tragedy of old age and bitterness, with death constantly at his door. I don't believe any of your points hold up under this kind of scrutiny, which is a shame as I admire you and your content
You are free to have your opinion, but Rockotar is free to have his too. Besides, art (and films) are meant to be interpreted, and everyone has their own view of a film. Just because Rockotar's interpretation doesn't match yours, doesn't mean it's "bad". "Your points don't hold up"? As I've said, artworks can have different interpretations . Don't like? Don't watch.
@@100lovenana I'm not responding to his interpretation, I'm responding to the objective claims he's made, such as the film having 'no theme' and being 'overrated'. Saying I didn't like it would be a subjective take, but the video made different points. Besides, my comments were in no way a personal attack and there's no bad blood
4:49 - 4:54 “desires to just have fun and stay childlike forever are not really relatable” you could never be more wrong than that my friend, this comment is directly from someone who relates to it. I don’t wanna grow up, because I’m a Toys R Us kid (the sad reality is that in actuality in the teens)
I'm Native American, I have Native American ancestry and the depiction of the natives in this film never offended me, in fact I love the "what makes the red man red" song, I was grooving to it as recently as last week✌
I always remember liking hook and mr Smee more than everything else as a kid. Everyone else made me feel so uncomfortable as a child. Whereas the Gillian’s were the best comedy group. Something about the children being led by these psychopaths really disturbed me as a child and I never could really understand why until now.
I performed the play last year and I was John for it. I have a mixed relationship with Peter Pan in general because of that experience, mostly because of the directors yelling at us all the time and then cancelling the spring performance after we did Peter Pan. I tried watching the movie to get a feel for John’s character and all I got was sexist and racist eight year old who wants to be his dad. But the show was kind of fun and my closest friends I was doing this with were Wendy and Hook.
As much as I like this movie, I'll admit it's not that great of a film. If anything, I think it was meant to be a fun adventure. And the sequel does a good job in continuing the story. Besides, I'll take these films, and any other version of Peter Pan, over the 2023 version
I always found Peter Pan to be pretty good at most, and that's mostly just because I just like a lot of Disney films that came after it better. But I'm gonna give some thoughts on some of the points here. Regarding Peter being kind of a jerk, I always interpreted that as him wanting to be as childish as possible because of how much he detests the alternative. His moral compass isn't well-defined because of how much of a kid he acts like. Regarding Hook not being able to find where Peter Pan is until Tinkerbell shows him despite how small the island is, I always saw that as the adults in Neverland being kinda stupid and not thinking everything through. And finally, while the portrayal of Native Americans in "What Made the Red Man Red" is very much racist, this may get me a bunch of replies making unfair assumptions about me, but the song was always my favorite in the movie because its sound is more preferable to me than any of the other songs. I never cared for the vocal performances on "You Can Fly" and "Follow the Leader" because I find the sound to be kind of dated (the latter not helped by how much I really hate children singing in a group), so despite its racist portrayal, "What Made the Red Man Red" always stood out to me in a musical sense which is why I can't bring myself to think it's the worst.
I personally liked the original Kingdom Hearts game's treatment of Peter Pan as a character because it took his familiar traits from the movie but worked them into the story in such a way that it ultimately made him come across as more likeable. The world was fairly short but I felt it made decent use of the Peter Pan characters to actually advance KH1's larger story (rather than feeling self-contained to the world) and even removed less favorable elements from the film. Hook losing his hand because of Pan is just mentioned in one of Jiminy's journal entries rather than being directly acknowledged in a cutscene, essentially being treated as something that the player already knows. Initially it's presented that Peter more so teams up with Sora, Donald, and Goofy for self-serving reasons and just seems very self-absorbed: 1. Peter comes across as cocky and rude during his introductory scene. He introduces himself to the trio as "the answer to your prayers" and teases them about looking for a way to escape the ship's hold. Then when he properly introduces himself and extends his hand to Sora, he yanks it away when Sora introduces himself and tries to take his hand in return. Then he rather bluntly says "Okay, we're this together, but only 'til we find Wendy" without expressing any interest in how they ended up there or what they need. 2. He wants to "save" Wendy, yes, but why? This intro scene and knowing his personality from the film makes him come across as being single-minded about what's within HIS interest, which is very childish. He insists to Tinker Bell that he won't leave Wendy there, but you can't help but wonder why. So she'll be the Lost Boys' mother like in the film? To show off? So Captain Hook won't have gotten one over on him? Or because he actually is concerned about saving her and making sure that she is safe? After the party reaches Wendy (who's seemingly unconscious), Peter says that this is as far as he can go and has to help Wendy. Then he takes her and flies away, leaving the party. There's no fight with Captain Hook yet, no opportunity to single himself out and show off exactly, so it's clear that Peter DID care about Wendy and wants to make sure she's safe from harm before he does anything else. Sora and co then confront Captain Hook, and when Hook reveals that he's captured Tinker Bell, they actually SURRENDER to ensure that their new friend isn't hurt. Cut to Sora about to walk the plank into the hungry jaws of the crocodile (pretty hardcore) and he hears Peter's voice telling him that he can fly if he just believes (Pan had sprinkled them with pixie dust earlier). With Sora flying to safety and Peter saving Tink, Sora thanks Peter, with Peter saying "Don't mention it. You didn't think I'd leave you and Tink behind, did ya?" They then team up to defeat the Heartless and Captain Hook (where Peter demonstrates his prankish behavior with a Smee impersonation, reuniting with Wendy later at Big Ben. The boss battle with Hook has difficulty consistent with being later in the game and feels pretty epic with flying being mixed into the gameplay, with the duel being concluded in a cutscene with Hook falling into the ocean at the end and being chased into the horizon by the crocodile. Having essentially taken Wendy home, Peter promises her that they can see each other anytime so long as they remember each other (likely influencing Sora coining the phrase "My friends are my power" later on). As a show of good will, Peter even sends Tinker Bell along with Sora to act as a healing Summon for the remainder of the game (though that may also be in part due to him getting annoyed by her jealous behavior). Ultimately it becomes clear that despite any overly childish traits and potentially coming across as self-serving at first, Peter became sympathetic towards Sora upon witnessing his struggles and becoming aware of his goals. Even if he has a selfish and immature streak, this Peter has a good heart and is capable of greater compassion. Acting like he didn't care could've also in part been due to him wanting to appear macho and cool in front of these new potential friends? Sora's compassion towards Tinker Bell potentially also won Peter over, and Peter's capacity for compassion is hinted at during his introductory scene because he expresses interest in the fact that another girl (Kairi, Sora's friend), not just Wendy, is being held captive by Hook. Peter even shows sympathy towards Sora when he was unable to reunite with his friend Kairi (and realizes she might've lost her heart), invites him to return to Never Land and fly with Kairi, and expresses joy at the prospect of he and his new friends flying together when you revisit the world and want to travel to Big Ben from Hook's ship. Peter's statement about believing you can fly also reassures Sora and renews his belief that he can reunite with his friends. Moreover, Peter and Sora seemed to have formed a strong enough connection that he and Tinker Bell become a joint summon in KH2, with their team attack showing images of the memories that they shared together from the first game.
10:39 - “fun” fact: There was supposed to be Chinese chief on Hook’s crew that would have been as insulting to Asians as the Indians are to Native Americans.
Peter Pan is the bad guy, Captain Hook did nothing wrong, and with the stuff I’ve heard Disney did some deplorable stuff surrounding this movie. Argue with your mother, me and my homies hate Peter Pan
@@jeremiahnoar7504 he is a PIRATE. What do you expect? The Easter rabbit type of cute? At least he is what he is on the package and is just doing his job. What Peter does when does kids grow up is infinitely worse
@@BIGTHANKSHEESH My point is; they both have a dark side. Captain Hook kills people and he's currently searching Neverland so that he can find an kill an 11 year old boy who cut off his hand. And Peter kills his lost boys as the grow older to prevent them from turning into a resentful miserable pirate. They both do awful things.
The movie hasn't aged well to be honest 1. The father is horrible to the dog 2.Tinkerbell is Satan's apprentice 3. Hook never manages to be threatening 4. Racist native American scene it's up there with the aristocat and Dumbo scenes 5. Not really a experience I would revisit compared to other Disney classics that are far superior and more enjoyable
I agree on all points. My biggest problem with the film has always been the over-simplified backgrounds based on Mary Blair's paintings, which was also my biggest problem with Alice in Wonderland. A lot of animation is exceptional, but a lot is downright sloppy, like with the Lost Boys. Your Mother and Mine is a dud as a song. I skip past it when re-watching the film.
Also, Peter's removal of Hook's hand is a blight against his morality, but not his character. You misunderstand him when you want him to be a hero, I understand this is what you wanted but the character works incredibly well on his own terms in this film
One postive thing about Peter i wish you brought up is how unlike Hook , Peter dosen't do Loopholes as Hook promise not to lay a finger or hook but used a bomb . Peter during his no flight swords fight at the end kept his word and not used something like big leaps or gliding
Ive missed ya Rocky. Btw, you could try doing ranking vids for your gaming channel (even tho it doesnt get too much attention no offence), and another suggestion for the waiting list: you said that the sonic movies had certain flaws that prevented them from being truly great. So i think it would be interesting to discuss where the sonic movies went wrong in the future. Stay iconic buddy
I've always been a fan of the concept of Peter Pan as a story and its contents, but this movie always felt empty in a way. I never liked this Peter Pan, Wendy was annoying to me, but Captain Hook, Mr. Smee and the croc were fabulous. Tinkerbell was surprisingly and morbidly entertaining with her murder thoughts lol I grew up more with an old anime called "Boku no Peter Pan", which expanded the fantastical world of Neverland to a level I've never seen elsewhere, adding quite a few dark moments too (which I discovered only not long ago as I found the uncensored version of the series, here in Italy a few parts were cut, especially at the end, which caused the series to end with a bit of confusion). I'm not gonna lie though, the Croc song lives freely in my brain
I swear, I love your channel so much. Yeah, sometimes I don't agree, but you always phrase your ideas perfectly and make them understandable. Also, your voice is basically perfect for voice overs in my opinion.
As a child I had this movie in my rather extensive animted movie DVD collection. I remember always thinking that I really liked it but feeling kinda bored or unhappy while watching it. In heinsight I had this relationship with a lot of "bad" or "not really my type" movies, still to this day. I remember the phantasy adventures I had after the movie and the visuals as amazing and wonderful, but the movie itself as not that special. I have not watched it since I was ... maybe 9 when I realised that it could give me nothing anymore. I mabe rewatch it soon. -(you do not have to read that part below if you do not want to hear my self-diagnosis)- I think I just struggle to notice, believe or acknowledge if a movie, or any piece of media is bad (or just not as good, like in this case) and my phantasy just creates things based on it and entertain me so much that I forget all the shortcomings of the "source material".
Disney Peter Pan is one of those movies you really liked as a child,yet watch it as a adult and it just isn't as great as you remembered it. Middle of the pack movie at best,not great but not terrible either.
To be fair, there's a lot of films in Disney where the bad guy loses simply bc the bad guy needs to lose. Sleeping Beauty's Maleficent is guilty of this too.
14:23 I really enjoy the song “Your Mother & Mine”, which is performed by Kathryn Beaumont, Rockotar. I think this song is my favorite part of the 1953 movie
I love this film and I do admit it is in great part because of nostalgia bias but I would just like to add a detail I didn't really pick up on until revisiting clips of this movie as a 25-year-old adult. Peter Pan and the way he's portrayed back in the 50s is a complete womanizer despite him supposedly being a boy who never grows up (the voice actor playing him had recently just gone through puberty so his voice had already changed and even that's noticeable to kids which make him sound more like an authority figure to the other kids than an ordinary child). He already has a deep relationship established with the jealous Tinkerbell who we will see gets really nasty when she notices him hook up obviously with Wendy, only to then proceed to replace Tinkerbell with Wendy and sends her away. Then when we see him interact with the mermaids because Wendy wanted to meet them, they are obviously fawning over him while he is flirting with them and once they see Wendy they get jealous, try to drag her into the sea and Peter watching all this finds it amusing, typical of a womaniser. And then there's Tiger Lily who is already on his side against Hook, to the point that she keeps quiet about everything Hook asks about Peter lest she'll drown. Then once Peter saves her, she shows her appreciation towards him and later dances with him and even KISSES him in the Indian dance making Wendy finally snap. So that's basically Peter having an affair with not one, not two, but THREE girls total plus a bunch of half-human-beings which are mermaids that fawn over him implying that he's obviously attractive to them but we don't know any backstory between him and them other than the fact that he tells stories to them.
I'd say introducing the clock so late in the movie would be a bad move (or at least different from what the writers wanted); we wouldn't know why the Croc ticks 'til the end of the movie.
Great video! You should make one on the second movie I really like Jane's song in it that also appeared in a tinker bell movie. Anyone remember its name?
Never watched it, only watched Hook. I'll try to watch this after I've watched Peter Pan, but for now, what did you guys think about Hook? Edit: watched it through very legal means. It's not the best really, honestly I didn't think it was that good at all. I'm sure it was great at the time, but the actual substance of the story isn't very detailed IMO, but the execution of said story was alright.
I agree that the Native American portraied is unfair and unfitting i hate it. Ive met quite a few Native Americans in my youth and ive come to understand and respect said culture and how they are portried in animation media is disrespectful. The only time Disney did a semi correct portrail and i say semi correct lightly is Pocahontas and even then I may be wrong
I only saw this movie once as a young kid in the early 90's and all I remember about it is that it was the first time I felt bored watching a Disney movie.
I highly recommend watching the 2003 Peter pan movie with Jason Isaac. It's not only fateful to the book's but it's one of the best Peter pan movies you'll even find interms of the script, muisic, visuals, the interpretations of the character's, themes and overall writhing.
I would reccomend reading Lost In The Never Woods by Aiden Thomas, it's an interesting take on the aftermath of the orignal story of Peter Pan, and just an interesting take on the Peter Pan story in general.
I know you've probably received plenty of comments from users of their takes of Peter being a not-so-likeable lead character, but it did remind me of something I read in a review for this film. A scene that didn't make it into the final film alluded to his backstory (Returning to his old home that he essentially ran away from to see that his mama moved on and replaced him with another kid, essentially telling the Darlings and the Lost Boys that leaving would be pointless if you have nowhere outside of Neverland to return to). That probably would've given him some depth even if you didn't like him. Perspective, am I right? Of course, you can't go wrong with Hook and Smee's humor as a classic villain and lacky duo (Flair that's lacking in the studio nowadays, imho). Like, the animation and vocal performances are just iconic. (Honorable mentions for an out-of-pocket chuckle from me go to the Darlings running past their father to comfort their dog [that would literally be me with my cats] and the epic fail wamp-wamp-waah rendition of the kiddie leader song after the boys' fool-proof plan to mess with the Natives goes "swimmingly")
I never watched the original, I watched the live action sequel “Hook” which had robin William’s, it gave a great impression, so when I heard about tinker bell being evil and the rasist elements I was shocked, and honestly I agree it shouldn’t be idolised. I think the best elements of the movie are definitely when hook and Smee are on screen they are an amazing duo! Everything else is very outdated from sexism of Wendy’s character to creepy implications of Peter Pan. Just watch Hook it’s far better!
I watched this movie a lot as a kid. Don’t really understand why I enjoyed it, just fun colors to stare at. When I watched it for the first time in over 10 years a few months back, it really didn’t have the spark I thought it would. Pretty much all my thoughts were well explained in this video. The characters were really dull, Peter was unlikable, and the pirates were the most fun because they were the most energetic. Peter being an ass? I think it’s supposed to show the immaturity of him not wanting to grow up, and even if it was objectively done well, it doesn’t make him an enjoyable character and there wasn’t as strong as a redemption to counter it. The thing with the natives…I’m not gonna say it’s okay, but it does make sense for the time that it came out. Again, doesn’t make it okay, but it’s understandable why they did that. Return to Neverland is in my opinion, Disney’s most underrated masterpiece. It told a much better story of how important it is to grow up while still retaining some childlike qualities. All the characters served a much greater purpose and it had a much more powerful story. Overall, Peter Pan is a classic that should always be remembered, but it certainly didn’t age well and doesn’t hold up.
I thought it was a great film and yes I have to say Starkey could have gotten some screen time to develop his role as a character and the Native American stereotype didn’t age well. The title of overrated is Sleeping Beauty
I think they have Tinker and Peter act like that cause old folklore fairies were scary and tricksters. Even the nice ones can show their nasty side of you piss them off. Peter even have fairy or elf ears.
While Peter Pan has it's flaws like the titular character's portrayal and the depictions of Native Americans, I still think the film has pleasant animation and some nice chemistry from Captain Hook and Mr. Smee. Also, to let you know in case you have not known before, the deleted song Never Smile at a Crocodile also appeared with visuals (aided by footage from Peter Pan) for the Disney's Sing-Along Songs entry Under the Sea, when the song made it's appearance there. th-cam.com/video/eW7a_BDwrsM/w-d-xo.html
The Peter Pan in the book was a lot more cruel however we get his thoughts and makes him ponder on growing up or not. The film isnt as cruel as the book but we never get his inner thoughts being a film. This Peter is still better then Sweet Pete from Rescue Rangers or Peter and Wendy the Disney live action remake . Peter Pan is a lot nicer and more heroic in Return to Neverland.
Playing around with someone who wants you dead is as Smee said, childish. It is a disproportionate response. Disarming him would have been another pun for handling the situation. Hook literally needs a helping hand to win. While Peter can end the pirates by his ability and allies if he wanted. Fly high above the ship with cannon balls drop them sink the ship and have the mermaids drown them ect. While amputation is serious Peter is not taking the threat to his life as serious. Many childish games play with the surface level joy and fantasy that is removed with real consideration. Having beautiful gold medallions and precious gems as treasure is childish unrealistic fun like scrooge money pit while adults contend with working to pay for cost of living and you just cannot swim in coins
Another Disney movie I watched once, maybe twice as a kid, but never impressed me. The trope of "Native-Americans-being-s*vages-apart-from-the-token-pretty-maiden" also distresses me a lot - And what's worse, post-WW2 Hollywood movies yet were starting moving beyond that stage, while Disney here failed doing it.
In the original J.M. Barrie play, Peter is depicted as a more villainous character despite being the main protagonist, where his and acts and actions are simply a by-product of his immaturity: being in Neverland prevents one from aging physically, meaning he 's incapable of change, character development or redemption. In addition to cutting off Captain Hook's hand and feeding it to a crocodile, he does heinous acts like killing the Lost Boys when they age out of childhood, or simply exiling them to places unknown. Disney's version of the character on the other hand significantly toned down Peter's more sinister characterization in favor of making him more heroic while still maintaining his mischievous, youthful, immature and cocky attitude. So there you have it.
While important to the Disney legacy, I can't help but agree, controversies aside. The film did spawn some good things, though: Jake & The Neverland Pirates (which had better worldbuilding, and a better Neverland), and the Fairies franchise, which deserved WAY better
Interesting and pretty well thought out video! I think part of why I have always loved this movie is that I really do think it captures the pit and the gap between the childlike perception of "total freedom" and what really goes on in such adventurous places. I actually agree that to a modern child, some of these seem less "dreamlike" but I very much think this picture of a child's dream is quite accurate to those in the past and probably myself to an extent. The idea of a wondrous adventure in dangerous and unexplored lands, with dangerous and unexplored lands, in places the laws do not reach. It's like dreaming of living in the West before the governments hands reached there. The dream is of exploration and treasure, but the reality is of criminals jumping counties to escape the authorities and people dying or getting mistreated in numerous other ways. I find the mixture of the childish and whimsical attitude of the movie with the actually quite serious things happening (Captain Hook is going to kill them, even if it doesn't work out for him) reflects that quite well. It reminds me quite a bit of something like Tom Sawyer and my feelings about that, the ways in which reality intersects with childish dreams. Not as good as Mark Twain's writing, but still pretty great. Even the Native Americans, as badly depicted as they are, admittedly feel less bad because of how clearly they call back to many a child's innocent (at least when young) albeit ignorant perspectives of Native Americans. Think Calvin and Hobbes type stuff. I don't like it, and regardless of any outrage it isn't an amazing scene (although I don't think the music itself, lyrics withstanding, is the "worst ever Disney song"). I do agree that it really does detract from the story in a way I find few equivalent complaints do. The Dumbo one for example, may still be racist but doesn't actually detract from the movie in my many watchings unless you're trying to pay attention to it while I wouldn't say I ever particularly liked the scene in Peter Pan.
Reasons I like Peter Pan: Captain Hook has the sickest looking outfits ever. Drew tons of pictures of him. I also blame him for my lifelong obsession with rapiers.
![Why Return to Never Land is a Superior Sequel [Peter Pan 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/FlLqiCnzwQ4/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why Return to Never Land is a Superior Sequel [Peter Pan 2]](/img/tr.png)
![Why Lyle Rourke is Disney's Most Relevant Villain [Atlantis: The Lost Empire]](/img/n.gif)
Is it crazy that I like pretty much every Tinkerbell movie more than this one?
What are your thoughts about Peter Pan 2: Return to Neverland?? I actually enjoyed the sequel more than this one tbh. And yes, the Tinkerbell movies are really adorable and made her so much more likable than her original character. I really don’t understand why so many people fell in love with her back then, especially considering her original personality in the books.
I can’t say I blame you as even I grew up with those when they aired and enjoyed them decently
Hey, TinkerBell The Great Fairy Rescue goes hard okay 😂
@@kristinahuchison2511 I like both versions of Tinkerbell. I like the og, because her attitude is funny to me; and I like the current version because her sweetness is endearing. I tend to like polar opposite/strong personalities. Other people might have similar feelings.
It’s not crazy at all. To think one of the worst Disney movies made great franchise as the TV show and the Tinker Bell movies were great and actually showed imagination and character (something the first movie did not have at all).
I personally loved Peter Pan for its childlike wonder and the contrast between the boys who never wanted to grow up and Wendy who knew it was for the better. I also like the last scene when her parents see the ship remembering seeing the ship before, reminding the audience that growing up doesn't mean abandoning your childhood. I also REALLY really like You can fly
That last scene really hits through the heart honestly, KINDA wish the movie did a better job with it's themes, but it was a nice ending.
It's just my personal opinion, but another point I wish you'd have mention is M. Darling (and not only cause I find him funny). To me, he is actually a good incarnation of the theme, not wanting to grow up that is. He's very strict and easily annoyed by his children's childish games and fasination for fairytales, considering it's useless and distracts them from "more serious things of life". Yet, we see he's not a mean guy, we understand that what he actually wants is the best for his family and thus, thinks his children need to grow up fast. But in the end, he accepts that those "childish games" make the children happy and that they have the right to enjoy it while they're still young. We even see him remembering how this same magic used to make him happy when he was young, as, in the last scene (one of my fav of the movie) he gazes up the boat in the sky in wonder with his family. So yeah we don't see a lot of him but I still really like his small character development.
Also Hans Conried did an amazing job vocing captain Hook (even tho I grew up with the french version)
@@la_theiere_likes_tea good point you got and yes, Conried is the reason why Hook was a great villain and would have been the reason why King Stefan should not be a jerk with a heart of gold
I totally agree and yes that is such a nice scene. And than there is Mary who despite like George not believing in Peter Pan, was accepting of there childish games, which is how Mary and George is able to balance each other. It’s also nice when she tired to assure Wendy, John, and Michael that he wasn’t a mean guy, try to get them to understand why he acted the way he did, he does love them who wants what’s best for his family.
I do appreciate how Captain Hook acts as a negative adult role model for Peter, in the fact that Peter doesn't want to grow up, especially if it means being like Hook
I think that's the thing most people don't understand about the characters. Hook is resentful because he's old and he's afraid of his own mortality. He's envious of Peter's youth and unlimited potential. Peter hates Captain Hook because Hook's resentful and bitter and who'd want to grow up if that's all you have to look forward too.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 actually in the novel its hilarious because Hook thinks to himself I want to kill him because he's cocky and it annoys me so much!
@@alorapendrak9752 and that's true! That's part of the fascinating psychology of a resentful Captain Hook. We all know extremely cockey 12 year old boys. Kind of comes with the territory. Yet very rarely do we actually want to kill them. What lies underneath that urge to kill a kid is where the fascinating stuff lies.
I like the crocodile.
Which you should NEVER smile at 😂
when I watched the movie as a child, the ticking of the crocodile always was the funniest part to me.
i always remember the song never smile at a crocodile
Everyone loves the crocodile.
Mr Smee is the best character by far, and I will die on that hill - him and the Crocodile!
I will say Peter Pan 2: Return to Neverland is the best Disney sequel where Ralph Breaks the Internet is the Worst Disney Sequel!
@@DiegoMatos-u6u you know what's the worst sequel of all is?
Five Words, Megamind vs the Doom Syndicate!
the only sequel worse the ralph breaks the internet is cars 2.
I used to like Cars 2 due to the spy action sequences but after realizing that it isn’t a great sequel, not my least favorite Pixar movie! My Least Favorite Pixar movie is the Incredibles 2 which is disappointing!
How could you say that when Cinderella III a twist in time exists?
I feel Peter Pan's personality works for the film. Somewhat. He is just some kid that thinks he's cool, and wants to stay immature forever instead of growing as a person. Maybe the film would have been better if along the way he learned not to fear growing up and let loose his insecurites and fears instead of acting like that one playground bully whose only leverage is he's slightly taller.
Neither Peter nor Tinkerbell are supposed to be likable. In the novel, Peter is supposed to be a tragic character.
That being said I loathe Disney movie Peter.
Walt Disney seems to have missed the point of Peter Pan. He's not just a jerky kid he's sorta alien in the books despite having human emotions. Let me explain Peter forgets everything and that is a big part of his character. The only way he can stay innocent its implied is if every joy, every betrayal, and every bad emotion feels like its his first time. It is the secret of Peter's eternal youth every bad thing he's done forgotten, and everyone he ever knew also forgotten everything he ever did is a new experience. Its also hinted he does remember deep down because his nightmares are bad and pretty frequent.
Also you don't like novel peter but you feel for him because he's experiences such a wide rang of emotions and fears throughout the book. the reader gets to see multiple sides to Peter. Like yes this is the kid who laughed when Micheal nearly fell to his death. But he also fly's halfway to the afterlife with the souls of dead kids. as far as he can because he doesn't want them to be frightened. Yeah he's a jerk but Peter has these little moments of tenderness too.
Its not a matter of likeability but Disney's Peter is well flat. he's a jerk with no lairs to it. book Peter is a jerk but there's a lot of exploration of as to what motivates him. whereas with Disney peter we don't get any of that.
Also hook isn't pathetic in the novel so novel peter doesn't come off as a bully to him. If anything novel Hook is awful I love him but he tries to poisen children and later whip them bloody because they saw him afraid. Also Novel Hook states he wants to murder Peter because he finds him annoying in an inner monolog way more then the hand thing.
@@alorapendrak9752 Novel Peter = Jeremy Sumpter?
I think that’s the point. You’re not supposed to be Hook or Peter, you’re supposed to be both. You need to grow up and acknowledge the bad things as well as the good
Peter being a jerkward is kinda the point
Most of the 1950s-1960s Disney "Silver Age" movies just kinda exist in my mind. They don't reach the greatness of some of the Disney "Golden Age" or "Renaissance" movies, but I don't think any of them are downright bad.
However, it is interesting that the Silver Age movies were the last ones that had input from Walt Disney himself.
@@joeyk107 with the last one being "The Jungle Book"
For me, most of them are good. Not amazing but good. They aren’t the greatest things the company has put out, they are flawed in areas and there are aspects of them which haven’t aged well but they are solid, enjoyable experiences for me.
@@joeyk107 what about 101 Dalmatians, Sword in the Stone and Jungle Book?
@@meta527II I've always considered those movies to be good, but just not as "great" as some other Disney movies
@@meta527II Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp, and Sleeping Beauty
Finally someone calls out Peter Pan being a jerk
I think everyone knew Peter Pan is a jerk, because that is the point... he is the embodiment of misplaced childish brabado... JM Barrie himself wrote him as a jerk...
@@isaacrichter3269 Think Bart Simpson or Calvin
He was way worse in the original ngl
Well...yeah. He's literally the "boy who never grew up." That's the whole point of his character. He was never a goodie two-shoes. He's brash and loses interest in anyone who can't keep up with his own existence. There is even a syndrome named after him.
Or Dennis the Menace Mitchell!
This is one of those movies I never really got why it became so popular. I don’t necessarily dislike or hate it, but I find the title character and especially Tinkerbell (secondary mascot of Walt Disney Studios) to be so unlikable. I much rather prefer the sequel, especially with Jane’s more no nonsense personality and Peter isn’t such a showoff and jerk.
The movie got so popular because it already was an extremely popular book/play by J.M. Barry. And Peter Pan and Tinkerbell were meant to be quite mean spirited.
Why is Pater Pan always flying? Because he never lands.
Nice joke
They also made tinker bell unlikable. She starts off very bratty and entitled then eventually becomes an attempted murderer when she tries to kill Wendy. This would be no issue if she was meant to be a villain, but she is supposed to be someone we are supposed to root for.
Agreed!
Indeed much better in her own movies, she fell fast and hard apparently between the tinker bell movies and Peter Pan
@@Edwinaopt And the funny thing is that Wendy is in my opinion the most likeable person in the film. Seeing another supposed hero try to kill her just really makes her that much less sympathetic.
Totally agree, going as far as to telling Captain Hook Peter Pan’s lair.
@@knellycornnan5132Totally agree.
Can we just talk about how good Captain Hook was at playing the piano, even with the hook.
I don’t blame you, there’s some certain, “tasteless” moments here and there, plus I don’t think it’s the best narrative even as an adaptation, but I don’t think it’s weak either, just think the villains are really the only highlight of the movie for me cause it’s a riot.
Most Disney films that came out before the Renaissance era are "stuff happens" films, rather than being plot-driven. Peter Pan suffers from this, but it's hardly a problem exclusive to it. Think about it - Bambi, Lady and the Tramp, Alice in Wonderland, The Sword in the Stone, The Jungle Book, The Aristocats, etc. Stuff happens, the end. Disney movies didn't start becoming consistently plot-driven until The Little Mermaid, and I think it's because Howard Ashman, who came from a musical theatre background, is who prompted Disney to start writing their movies as though they were creating Broadway musicals, which gave them much more structure. Disney didn't even hire screenwriters until the Renaissance era, as all of their prior films had been storyboard-driven, and it shows.
I think that is part of the reason why some movies like Sleeping Beauty and Pinocchio really stand out, because they have much stronger core stories and characters as the focus.
@@Rockotarthepurplehatguy I agree! Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty have more well-structured narratives compared to a lot of the other films of their eras.
It’s an adventure, but not like adventure games, and more just like an exploration, really, and a spectacle~
@@AuraLeafstorm dont forget the package films
Bambi is a masterpiece and I'll die on this hill.
Sad what Disney did to Bobby Driscoll isn’t it?
Exactly bro got f up by Disney
died a drug addict homeless on a mattress in a abandoned house at 31
I loved him in song of the south
Died too young
Yes, is. Bobby Driscoll made the Peter Pan character come alive😊
Even Walt Disney.
I would love to see you do a video on the 2003 version of Peter Pan at some point. I agree with pretty much everything you said in this video, and I think the 2003 version improves on the weaknesses you mentioned in the classic Disney version in every way. It has so much more depth in its storytelling and overall themes. With the in-depth style of analysis your video essays have, I know you'd be able to perfectly explain why it works.
I did find Peter Pan chopping off Hook's hand "as a childish prank" a bit odd.
I did kind of make up this theory behind this situation. Like, Hook tricked or backstabbed Peter in some other situation (maybe stole or destroyed something from Peter that he cherished so much) and Peter decided to get back at Hook. So he must've set up some elaborate prank to get back at Hook and his crew. In the process, though, Hook gets his hand sliced off. Probably wasn't Peter's intention, but he rolled with it, as he thinks it was a fair trade for whatever Hook took from him. And to add more salt to the wound (no pun intended), he threw his hand to the crocodile, which ended up liking the taste that it decided to chase Hook to the ends of Neverland.
Sure, they didn't explain the motivation in the film (outside of it being a "childish prank"), but I like to imagine this is the reason, justifying Peter's actions and Hook still remains a villain.
Peter Pan is a mythic story. More akin to an old folk lore or a Greek tale. It's has to be interpreted by a different set of rules than modern movies. It's meaning is found in it's symbolic representations, not in what happens on a plot level. Really, the hand thing starts to make more sense when you look at it symbolically.
i heard of a theory that hook used to be a lost boy and trying to save wendy and the boys from peter.
@@viviennemorgan7217Where’s that theory from?
@@Ninpressions i don't know matpat.
@@viviennemorgan7217 I actually had a feeling you were going to say that XD ya I kind of want to see more on that theory
Ok, so the part at the end of the Peter section about the film not realising Peter's carelessness is incorrect, and extremely so. The whole point of his character is that he's an unreliable, chaotic child who doesn't know how to handle serious situations.
This movie was less "plot" driven and more "stuff happens" and you don't care as much about what will happen as a result.
The 1991 film Hook is a Peter Pan story with a plot worth getting invested in and is a huge improvement to the original.
I don't think Peter is supposed to be a what we would call a "hero," he's an immature boy in a permanent state of arrested development and kinda shows the audience that growing up is preferable to becoming like that. Little kids can play games and pretend they're Peter Pan for fun, but eventually you gotta come back to reality.
While I love this movie, there are 2 more complaints I would have brought up.
1. How unlikeable Tinkerbelle is. Especially when she literally tries to have Wendy killed and never shows any repentance for it! Still don’t know why Disney chose THIS character to be one of their mascots.
2. Mr. Smee, despite being one of the villains, is KIND to his enemies! WHY? He’s supposed to be one of the VILLAINS! So by making him KIND, that makes our heroes look like the bad guys!
I plan on talking more about Tinkerbell and her initial unlikeable personality in my eventual video on the first Tinkerbell movie (showing how that movie made her a better character). So I decided to hold off on those comments to avoid repeating myself too much in the future. But yes I agree, I don't mind Smee though, he exists mostly for comedy so he doesn't have to be heartless to work in my view, but I can see how that would bother you.
@@Rockotarthepurplehatguy thanks for understanding.
2. Isn't that the case for Mr. Smee in all adaptations? He's generally nice.
@@Jimenopolix That doesn’t really counter my point.
@@Rockotarthepurplehatguy And if I can be honest, I do think Smee does have fun comedic moments. I just can't stand the fact that they made him kind.
When I rewatched this in like 2020-21 I was SPEECHLESS with the cave scene where Peter traps Hook then gives Smee a gun to see if he'll accidentally kill his own captain like hello??
Hook is the best Peter Pan movie, and I will die on that hill.
To be fair, the only reason I liked this movie is because it was the only movie that would put me to sleep as a kid. Don’t know why, but I think I liked the colors and the landscapes of the scenes. Now that I’m older, I realize that Peter Pan wasn’t, well… ‘all that’.
WHoever said a protagonist needs to be a hero?
*Gone With the Wind* had villain protagonists, *Titanic* had one who was a total jerk, but it doesn't lessen them as movies.
I think everyone knows that the 2003 version is clearly the best take on the original story by far.
It's better but Peter Pan still sucks
@@BIGTHANKSHEESH "Still sucks"
Idk, the 2003 version put a new twist and enhanced it with changes and improvements to the original story. Not to mention the ending line is absolutely PERFECT.
@@TheLazyFusspot_3428 Peter Pan is STILL a character I despise (he’s a POS). Although not as bad as the go Disney story
I remember reading somewhere that Captain Hook actually used to BE one of the Lost Boys and that's why he's trying to destroy Peter Pan and the Lost Boys are actually kids Peter kidnapped because he was lonely. NOT GOOD!
Interesting theory.
@@Rockotarthepurplehatguy yeah, I can't remember where I read it. 😬
Somebody wrote a whole book with that angle. Rather interesting concept since also the other pirates would be former lost boys who grew up.
@@RockotarthepurplehatguyI heard the live action remake confirmed that theory into its continuity. Honestly the Silver Age got the best Disney live action remakes. You got the holy trinity of actually great remakes in Cinderella, The Jungle Book, and Lady and The Tramp, the good enough 101 Dalmatians, the split fanbase of Maleficent (Sleeping Beauty) and the Alice in Wonderland duology, and the slightly better Peter Pan & Wendy. All that’s left is the Sword in the Stone. Not even Disney can mess up fixing that snooze fest up.
Barrie mostly meant Peter to be a dead child, or a child who was never born. The Lost Boys were kids who died early and taken away because of that. Hook was an Eton schoolboy who secretly regretted being a pirate, but couldn't go back.
Once upon a time, Peter Pan was my favorite Disney movie. In fact, one Halloween I dressed as Peter and a friend of mine was Tinkerbell. But I rarely watch the movie these days, because as you said, Hook and Smee are the only really good elements of the movie. I’d much rather watch The Great Mouse Detective or 101 Dalmatians if I’m in the mood for a classic Disney film.
And I’m definitely interested in what you have to say about Return to Neverland, I never watched it because I absolutely HATED it’s teaser, so I have no idea how good or bad it is.
I think people often overlook the fact that the story isn't really about Peter, the main internal conflict is Wendy's. In the start of the movie her father (who's voiced by the same guy who voices Hook,coincidence, I think not) in rage tells her that she's too old to live in the nursery and dream about fairytales. She's gonna grow up soon and has too conform to the traditional women gender roles, which she isn't happy about, because she still feels like a kid.
Suddenly on the same night her dream boy appears to her delight. She realized quickly however that Peter isn't really who she thought he'd be, setting up the same misogynistic ideas alot of adults in her life probably do. When she arrives in Neverland, her troubles don't end. She can't really relate to the boys sense of adventure and young curiosity. When the boys play in the native American's camp, she's constantly told that she's not allowed to have fun nor dance, she has to work for the boys. She's also constantly put in the position of acting as a mother, something she doesn't really have trouble with, but clearly does it out of obligation for the lost boys and her actual want.
And on the other end of the spectrum we have Tinker Bell and the Mermaids who try to borderline kill her, because of their jealousy for Peter. While I'd say that's definitely an outdated take on the idea (the girls hate eachother because of their crushes on boys), it's still something women deal with to this day, feeling defenseless when confronting girls your age who hate you for no explicit reason. That's also why I think Tinker Bell is an important character to this movie. It shows how unnecessary conflict and jealousy between women can result in complete disasters.
All in all after Wendy comes back home, she's still charmed, by the adventure despite everything. She showed that she can stand up for herself and be mature, despite being young. Her mother reassures her that she still has time and can enjoy her childhood. Growing up and struggles of becoming a woman will come sooner or later, but she'll figure it out.
Idk I think I personally really appreciated that aspect of the message. I am terrified of becoming an official adult next year, despite of everyone around me saying that it's gonna be fun. The message about misogyny and gender roles is also quite relatable for someone who has a queer gender and sexual identity in a conservative setting and often has struggled tolerating the belated stereotypisin of other groups, by other individuals. It was just something that really stuck out to me, when I first watched the movie a month ago.
Yeah the movie is very dated in several areas, but I'll go on a record to say the message is quite profound compared to other Disney movies from the same era. Not every aspect and character works for me but I still deeply appreciate this film. (Crazy how I went on an entire tangent about Peter Pan, without even really mentioning him)
Great video! Even as a child, and after many rewatching, I still don’t get Peter Pan. Before I let go of my tight nostalgia goggles to let air in and realize Wish was worse, Peter Pan was my least favorite Disney movie.
For point 1: the all the kids (except Wendy) are annoying, with Wendy not exactly being memorable as she is the definition of a good character stuck in a bad movie. BOTH Tinker Bell and Peter Pan just have many signs of being Sociopathic (Tinker Bell obviously, but Peter Pan thinking it was funny to feed Captain Hook’s hand to a crocodile?). The book is supposed to touch on the evils of eternal innocence (innocence to the point of not understanding why morality and consideration is important), which is not good for what the movie wants to do in portraying Peter Pan as a hero.
For Point 2: Captain Hook’s fear of the crocodile 🐊 legitimately makes me want to cry, and I feel sorry for Smee too (I grew up with the TV show, so I just never got why he’s Mr. Smee, rather than just Smee like in the show). Smee is like Wendy in being a good character in a bad movie, as he never came up as a suck up like you said, he feels like Gaston’s sidekick in just being his most supportive and talented yet clumsy and incompetent friend. The exposition dumping makes sense of a cautious guy like Smee, so the alarm clock info isn’t bad, but Captain Hook exposition dumping doesn’t makes sense. That scene should have been after the first Crocodile appearance.
Of course for Point 3: The racism and sexism are awful (obviously), as the way the native Americans are supposed to represent the consequences of not growing up is just disgusting. The way the female characters act or/and look are just terrible except for Wendy (who is just discount Alice).
Also in point 3.5: The choir music is boring and a bit ear bleeding, as the choir reminds me of terrible offensive minstrel choir music. The actual offensive song is tied to the Dumbo worker song in being the worst. The Siamese Cat Song isn’t racist as the lyrics aren’t anything bad. The only bad thing Si and Am have are the buck teeth and the gong effect, the latter already being removed. Just edit the teeth and there’s nothing wrong left (unlike Shun Gon, that is yellow and actively used Chopsticks 🥢). In fact, Si and Am look better than Walt Disney’s comics to promote the movie which had the buck teeth longer and them with yellow fur. Peter Pan (and Dumbo) added more racism rather than subtract like Lady and the Tramp did. Speaking of villains (since Si and Am are Disney villains) the pirate villain song sucks. Again with an annoying choir along with no menace and even no charm to compensate (like Honest John, Gaston, and Ratcliffe when they sing the funny villain song). And who is going to remember “The second star to the right” when casual fans can remember anything else in the Disney Renaissance or even the golden age? I think your Disney Unholy Trinity all had better songs.
On to Point 4: The visuals are boring, as the flying sequences are boring compared to the TV show where a trail of Pixie Dust gets left behind. This of course affects the climax, as there no magic, just throwing projectiles and sword swinging with over exaggerated movements rivaling The Lion King’s slow motion fight.
Finally for Point 5: Alice in Wonderland, for its few shortcomings, still does what Peter Pan failed to do so much better and manages to age better. I kept thinking “if they already made Alice in Wonderland, why bother with another fairy tale isekai with less imagination?”. Peter Pan is like Happy Feet and Frozen, catering to a trend that long passed.
The sequel improves some things (like Peter Pan’s character), but it accidentally insults World War 2 survivors (as in War, if you don’t change to adapt, you could die, like how Jambareeqi’s Grandmother had to learn how to survive).
But, I will admit that Jake and the Neverland Pirates and the Tinker Bell movies are legitimately great 👍. The TV show toned down Captain Hook’s dread and made it Team Rocket like, making the anger and screaming actually funny. The modern era perfected comedy duos like Team Rocket and Bebop and Rocksteady, so of course the beta duo of Captain Hook and Smee finally got fixed. His new crew of just 2 pirates with instruments legitimately gives better songs than his old crew did. And the Tinker Bell movies made Tinker Bell an actual compelling kind character with amazing world building on the fairy world.
Your take on the Pirates choir is fascinating, and so I want to hear how you feel about A Pirate's Life For Me, the theme for the Pirates of the Caribbean ride sung by the exact same group (I sometimes forget it’s not from this film~)?
@@iphaoftheisles3952I’ll tell you when I hear it. I honestly never watched any of the Pirates of Caribbean movies, but I always wanted to at some point. I’ll tell you when I get to hear the music, but I feel like it’s going to sound better maybe since Peter Pan had to also deal with shortcomings of audio from an earlier time and the fact the Pirates of Caribbean clearly had more imagination than Peter Pan.
@@juanca2567 Oh, but the Pirates of the Caribbean ride, from whence “A Pirate's Life For Me” originates, debuted in 1967, only fourteen years after Peter Pan (like I said, it features the voices of the Pirate Chorus from Peter Pan), and the films came out many, many years later, loosely inspired by the ride, inserting that old tune in every now-and-then, but mostly being a completely different thing, and, eventually, as the films succeeded, the original ride was remade in their likeness~
but I’m talking about the original ride’s theme!
I'm sorry but Peter Pan is supposed to be a bit of a jerk, in many ways he's the true villain of the film and it works in the films favour. Yes, he's unlikeable, but that's simply who he is. He embodies childlike chaos and immaturity. This is not an issue so much as it is an issue you take. Also, Wendy, John and Micheal are indeed passive protagonists, but this is not an inherent flaw. They get to explore the good and bad of childhood and what that could mean for them if they choose to remain in Neverland forever, then they make an informed decision. Captain Hook embodies the tragedy of old age and bitterness, with death constantly at his door. I don't believe any of your points hold up under this kind of scrutiny, which is a shame as I admire you and your content
I agree, Peter Pan is not meant to be likeable, the message of the book is that you have to grow up or you end up like Peter.
You are free to have your opinion, but Rockotar is free to have his too. Besides, art (and films) are meant to be interpreted, and everyone has their own view of a film. Just because Rockotar's interpretation doesn't match yours, doesn't mean it's "bad".
"Your points don't hold up"? As I've said, artworks can have different interpretations . Don't like? Don't watch.
@@100lovenana I'm not responding to his interpretation, I'm responding to the objective claims he's made, such as the film having 'no theme' and being 'overrated'. Saying I didn't like it would be a subjective take, but the video made different points. Besides, my comments were in no way a personal attack and there's no bad blood
4:49 - 4:54 “desires to just have fun and stay childlike forever are not really relatable” you could never be more wrong than that my friend, this comment is directly from someone who relates to it. I don’t wanna grow up, because I’m a Toys R Us kid (the sad reality is that in actuality in the teens)
I think the argument would be that those are the sentiments of a teenager, and not a preteen or a child, non?
@@iphaoftheisles3952 don’t worry, I’m just kidding, I wanted to do a reference to the Toys R Us commercials, so that’s why I said it
@@iphaoftheisles3952 Don't you realize that this is meant to be sarcasm?
I'm Native American, I have Native American ancestry and the depiction of the natives in this film never offended me, in fact I love the "what makes the red man red" song, I was grooving to it as recently as last week✌
Well, glad you liked it, it just rubs me the wrong way I guess.
@@Rockotarthepurplehatguy that's understandable :)
That’s interesting.
Every native american ive seen online say they like the song lol
@@the_real_tabby I really do though, I'm not just saying it.
I always remember liking hook and mr Smee more than everything else as a kid. Everyone else made me feel so uncomfortable as a child. Whereas the Gillian’s were the best comedy group. Something about the children being led by these psychopaths really disturbed me as a child and I never could really understand why until now.
I performed the play last year and I was John for it. I have a mixed relationship with Peter Pan in general because of that experience, mostly because of the directors yelling at us all the time and then cancelling the spring performance after we did Peter Pan. I tried watching the movie to get a feel for John’s character and all I got was sexist and racist eight year old who wants to be his dad. But the show was kind of fun and my closest friends I was doing this with were Wendy and Hook.
As much as I like this movie, I'll admit it's not that great of a film. If anything, I think it was meant to be a fun adventure. And the sequel does a good job in continuing the story.
Besides, I'll take these films, and any other version of Peter Pan, over the 2023 version
Whenever Wendy speaks I can only hear Alice
Well,both characters were played by the same person named Kathryn Beaumont and from there they look and hear the same.
I always found Peter Pan to be pretty good at most, and that's mostly just because I just like a lot of Disney films that came after it better. But I'm gonna give some thoughts on some of the points here.
Regarding Peter being kind of a jerk, I always interpreted that as him wanting to be as childish as possible because of how much he detests the alternative. His moral compass isn't well-defined because of how much of a kid he acts like. Regarding Hook not being able to find where Peter Pan is until Tinkerbell shows him despite how small the island is, I always saw that as the adults in Neverland being kinda stupid and not thinking everything through. And finally, while the portrayal of Native Americans in "What Made the Red Man Red" is very much racist, this may get me a bunch of replies making unfair assumptions about me, but the song was always my favorite in the movie because its sound is more preferable to me than any of the other songs. I never cared for the vocal performances on "You Can Fly" and "Follow the Leader" because I find the sound to be kind of dated (the latter not helped by how much I really hate children singing in a group), so despite its racist portrayal, "What Made the Red Man Red" always stood out to me in a musical sense which is why I can't bring myself to think it's the worst.
I do admit, the "Red Man" song has the best rhythm and beat, making it the catchiest, it's just a shame the lyrics are atrocious.
@@RockotarthepurplehatguyNot to mention that Candy Candido is brilliant, and it’s just such a damn shame that it’s so unbearably racist…
I personally liked the original Kingdom Hearts game's treatment of Peter Pan as a character because it took his familiar traits from the movie but worked them into the story in such a way that it ultimately made him come across as more likeable. The world was fairly short but I felt it made decent use of the Peter Pan characters to actually advance KH1's larger story (rather than feeling self-contained to the world) and even removed less favorable elements from the film. Hook losing his hand because of Pan is just mentioned in one of Jiminy's journal entries rather than being directly acknowledged in a cutscene, essentially being treated as something that the player already knows.
Initially it's presented that Peter more so teams up with Sora, Donald, and Goofy for self-serving reasons and just seems very self-absorbed:
1. Peter comes across as cocky and rude during his introductory scene. He introduces himself to the trio as "the answer to your prayers" and teases them about looking for a way to escape the ship's hold. Then when he properly introduces himself and extends his hand to Sora, he yanks it away when Sora introduces himself and tries to take his hand in return. Then he rather bluntly says "Okay, we're this together, but only 'til we find Wendy" without expressing any interest in how they ended up there or what they need.
2. He wants to "save" Wendy, yes, but why? This intro scene and knowing his personality from the film makes him come across as being single-minded about what's within HIS interest, which is very childish. He insists to Tinker Bell that he won't leave Wendy there, but you can't help but wonder why. So she'll be the Lost Boys' mother like in the film? To show off? So Captain Hook won't have gotten one over on him? Or because he actually is concerned about saving her and making sure that she is safe?
After the party reaches Wendy (who's seemingly unconscious), Peter says that this is as far as he can go and has to help Wendy. Then he takes her and flies away, leaving the party. There's no fight with Captain Hook yet, no opportunity to single himself out and show off exactly, so it's clear that Peter DID care about Wendy and wants to make sure she's safe from harm before he does anything else.
Sora and co then confront Captain Hook, and when Hook reveals that he's captured Tinker Bell, they actually SURRENDER to ensure that their new friend isn't hurt. Cut to Sora about to walk the plank into the hungry jaws of the crocodile (pretty hardcore) and he hears Peter's voice telling him that he can fly if he just believes (Pan had sprinkled them with pixie dust earlier). With Sora flying to safety and Peter saving Tink, Sora thanks Peter, with Peter saying "Don't mention it. You didn't think I'd leave you and Tink behind, did ya?" They then team up to defeat the Heartless and Captain Hook (where Peter demonstrates his prankish behavior with a Smee impersonation, reuniting with Wendy later at Big Ben. The boss battle with Hook has difficulty consistent with being later in the game and feels pretty epic with flying being mixed into the gameplay, with the duel being concluded in a cutscene with Hook falling into the ocean at the end and being chased into the horizon by the crocodile. Having essentially taken Wendy home, Peter promises her that they can see each other anytime so long as they remember each other (likely influencing Sora coining the phrase "My friends are my power" later on). As a show of good will, Peter even sends Tinker Bell along with Sora to act as a healing Summon for the remainder of the game (though that may also be in part due to him getting annoyed by her jealous behavior).
Ultimately it becomes clear that despite any overly childish traits and potentially coming across as self-serving at first, Peter became sympathetic towards Sora upon witnessing his struggles and becoming aware of his goals. Even if he has a selfish and immature streak, this Peter has a good heart and is capable of greater compassion. Acting like he didn't care could've also in part been due to him wanting to appear macho and cool in front of these new potential friends? Sora's compassion towards Tinker Bell potentially also won Peter over, and Peter's capacity for compassion is hinted at during his introductory scene because he expresses interest in the fact that another girl (Kairi, Sora's friend), not just Wendy, is being held captive by Hook. Peter even shows sympathy towards Sora when he was unable to reunite with his friend Kairi (and realizes she might've lost her heart), invites him to return to Never Land and fly with Kairi, and expresses joy at the prospect of he and his new friends flying together when you revisit the world and want to travel to Big Ben from Hook's ship. Peter's statement about believing you can fly also reassures Sora and renews his belief that he can reunite with his friends.
Moreover, Peter and Sora seemed to have formed a strong enough connection that he and Tinker Bell become a joint summon in KH2, with their team attack showing images of the memories that they shared together from the first game.
10:39 - “fun” fact: There was supposed to be Chinese chief on Hook’s crew that would have been as insulting to Asians as the Indians are to Native Americans.
This was one of my most watched Disney movies when I was younger. I really gotta rewatch it sometime
Peter Pan is the bad guy, Captain Hook did nothing wrong, and with the stuff I’ve heard Disney did some deplorable stuff surrounding this movie. Argue with your mother, me and my homies hate Peter Pan
Captain Hook is a tyrant who'd shoot someone for singing off key. He's no better.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 he is a PIRATE. What do you expect? The Easter rabbit type of cute? At least he is what he is on the package and is just doing his job. What Peter does when does kids grow up is infinitely worse
@@BIGTHANKSHEESH My point is; they both have a dark side. Captain Hook kills people and he's currently searching Neverland so that he can find an kill an 11 year old boy who cut off his hand. And Peter kills his lost boys as the grow older to prevent them from turning into a resentful miserable pirate. They both do awful things.
@@jeremiahnoar7504 and Peter Pan is WORSE and it’s not close. One does their job. The other tricks children and kills them when they grow up
@@jeremiahnoar7504That is well said.
This movie is probably why Hook exists so umm good legacy Ig
The movie hasn't aged well to be honest
1. The father is horrible to the dog
2.Tinkerbell is Satan's apprentice
3. Hook never manages to be threatening
4. Racist native American scene it's up there with the aristocat and Dumbo scenes
5. Not really a experience I would revisit compared to other Disney classics that are far superior and more enjoyable
So.... it "hasn't aged well" according to Twitter and Tumblr, you mean. Got it.
Oh boy the comment section will be on fire
my opinion is a think wendy his more of a hero then peter. if you really thought of it shes the one who saved tiger lilly and even peter.
I liked Peter Pan 2 more than the OG bc it did better with the theme and characters. That and the scene with grown Wendy was so sweet.
I agree on all points. My biggest problem with the film has always been the over-simplified backgrounds based on Mary Blair's paintings, which was also my biggest problem with Alice in Wonderland. A lot of animation is exceptional, but a lot is downright sloppy, like with the Lost Boys. Your Mother and Mine is a dud as a song. I skip past it when re-watching the film.
Also, Peter's removal of Hook's hand is a blight against his morality, but not his character. You misunderstand him when you want him to be a hero, I understand this is what you wanted but the character works incredibly well on his own terms in this film
One postive thing about Peter i wish you brought up is how unlike Hook , Peter dosen't do Loopholes as Hook promise not to lay a finger or hook but used a bomb . Peter during his no flight swords fight at the end kept his word and not used something like big leaps or gliding
Ive missed ya Rocky. Btw, you could try doing ranking vids for your gaming channel (even tho it doesnt get too much attention no offence), and another suggestion for the waiting list: you said that the sonic movies had certain flaws that prevented them from being truly great. So i think it would be interesting to discuss where the sonic movies went wrong in the future. Stay iconic buddy
I've always been a fan of the concept of Peter Pan as a story and its contents, but this movie always felt empty in a way. I never liked this Peter Pan, Wendy was annoying to me, but Captain Hook, Mr. Smee and the croc were fabulous. Tinkerbell was surprisingly and morbidly entertaining with her murder thoughts lol
I grew up more with an old anime called "Boku no Peter Pan", which expanded the fantastical world of Neverland to a level I've never seen elsewhere, adding quite a few dark moments too (which I discovered only not long ago as I found the uncensored version of the series, here in Italy a few parts were cut, especially at the end, which caused the series to end with a bit of confusion).
I'm not gonna lie though, the Croc song lives freely in my brain
The Once Upon a Time depictions of the Peter Pan characters is much better.
I swear, I love your channel so much. Yeah, sometimes I don't agree, but you always phrase your ideas perfectly and make them understandable. Also, your voice is basically perfect for voice overs in my opinion.
As a child I had this movie in my rather extensive animted movie DVD collection. I remember always thinking that I really liked it but feeling kinda bored or unhappy while watching it. In heinsight I had this relationship with a lot of "bad" or "not really my type" movies, still to this day. I remember the phantasy adventures I had after the movie and the visuals as amazing and wonderful, but the movie itself as not that special.
I have not watched it since I was ... maybe 9 when I realised that it could give me nothing anymore. I mabe rewatch it soon.
-(you do not have to read that part below if you do not want to hear my self-diagnosis)-
I think I just struggle to notice, believe or acknowledge if a movie, or any piece of media is bad (or just not as good, like in this case) and my phantasy just creates things based on it and entertain me so much that I forget all the shortcomings of the "source material".
Disney Peter Pan is one of those movies you really liked as a child,yet watch it as a adult and it just isn't as great as you remembered it. Middle of the pack movie at best,not great but not terrible either.
To be fair, there's a lot of films in Disney where the bad guy loses simply bc the bad guy needs to lose.
Sleeping Beauty's Maleficent is guilty of this too.
Wow, I come home from a long day (9am-5pm) practicing for a musical where I got cast as captain hook, and I come home to this in my recommended...
Oh dear...
@@Rockotarthepurplehatguy Oh it's fine lol, I just thought the timing was hilarious.
14:23 I really enjoy the song “Your Mother & Mine”, which is performed by Kathryn Beaumont, Rockotar. I think this song is my favorite part of the 1953 movie
I love this film and I do admit it is in great part because of nostalgia bias but I would just like to add a detail I didn't really pick up on until revisiting clips of this movie as a 25-year-old adult. Peter Pan and the way he's portrayed back in the 50s is a complete womanizer despite him supposedly being a boy who never grows up (the voice actor playing him had recently just gone through puberty so his voice had already changed and even that's noticeable to kids which make him sound more like an authority figure to the other kids than an ordinary child). He already has a deep relationship established with the jealous Tinkerbell who we will see gets really nasty when she notices him hook up obviously with Wendy, only to then proceed to replace Tinkerbell with Wendy and sends her away. Then when we see him interact with the mermaids because Wendy wanted to meet them, they are obviously fawning over him while he is flirting with them and once they see Wendy they get jealous, try to drag her into the sea and Peter watching all this finds it amusing, typical of a womaniser. And then there's Tiger Lily who is already on his side against Hook, to the point that she keeps quiet about everything Hook asks about Peter lest she'll drown. Then once Peter saves her, she shows her appreciation towards him and later dances with him and even KISSES him in the Indian dance making Wendy finally snap. So that's basically Peter having an affair with not one, not two, but THREE girls total plus a bunch of half-human-beings which are mermaids that fawn over him implying that he's obviously attractive to them but we don't know any backstory between him and them other than the fact that he tells stories to them.
I'd say introducing the clock so late in the movie would be a bad move (or at least different from what the writers wanted); we wouldn't know why the Croc ticks 'til the end of the movie.
Respected especially with the main characters cause Peter is kinda inconsiderate and Tinker Bell is kinda evil
1:26 for 1953 incredible animation in my opinion
I like the Tinkerbell movies portrayal of tinkerbell than the Peter Pan movie’s portrayal
I like this movie, but I get if someone didn’t like it. Opinions are a thought, not a way of life
14:50 I never ever knew that song existed, man I wish you could’ve shown a snippet of it here, oh well, time to search it up
Great video! You should make one on the second movie I really like Jane's song in it that also appeared in a tinker bell movie. Anyone remember its name?
Yeah this movie was never my favorite movie, I always thought it was just OK
I never really enjoyed disney movies. Also fully agree. Hook actually made good sense.
Never watched it, only watched Hook. I'll try to watch this after I've watched Peter Pan, but for now, what did you guys think about Hook?
Edit: watched it through very legal means. It's not the best really, honestly I didn't think it was that good at all. I'm sure it was great at the time, but the actual substance of the story isn't very detailed IMO, but the execution of said story was alright.
I agree that the Native American portraied is unfair and unfitting i hate it.
Ive met quite a few Native Americans in my youth and ive come to understand and respect said culture and how they are portried in animation media is disrespectful. The only time Disney did a semi correct portrail and i say semi correct lightly is Pocahontas and even then I may be wrong
That’s very nice.
They used the historical character of Pocahontas to make a story that has nothing in common with the life of the real person, so it's not great either
I only saw this movie once as a young kid in the early 90's and all I remember about it is that it was the first time I felt bored watching a Disney movie.
When's your Inside Out 2 review gonna come? I'm waiting for that one
As soon as the movie is widely available, because I need a lot of footage to talk about all my points.
I highly recommend watching the 2003 Peter pan movie with Jason Isaac. It's not only fateful to the book's but it's one of the best Peter pan movies you'll even find interms of the script, muisic, visuals, the interpretations of the character's, themes and overall writhing.
I would reccomend reading Lost In The Never Woods by Aiden Thomas, it's an interesting take on the aftermath of the orignal story of Peter Pan, and just an interesting take on the Peter Pan story in general.
I know you've probably received plenty of comments from users of their takes of Peter being a not-so-likeable lead character, but it did remind me of something I read in a review for this film. A scene that didn't make it into the final film alluded to his backstory (Returning to his old home that he essentially ran away from to see that his mama moved on and replaced him with another kid, essentially telling the Darlings and the Lost Boys that leaving would be pointless if you have nowhere outside of Neverland to return to). That probably would've given him some depth even if you didn't like him. Perspective, am I right?
Of course, you can't go wrong with Hook and Smee's humor as a classic villain and lacky duo (Flair that's lacking in the studio nowadays, imho). Like, the animation and vocal performances are just iconic.
(Honorable mentions for an out-of-pocket chuckle from me go to the Darlings running past their father to comfort their dog [that would literally be me with my cats] and the epic fail wamp-wamp-waah rendition of the kiddie leader song after the boys' fool-proof plan to mess with the Natives goes "swimmingly")
You did not mention Mr Darling and his character growth.
It's fine, but he's barely in the movie, all his development essentially happens off screen.
The Indians were absent in Return to Neverland and Jake and the Neverland and Pirates .
I never watched the original, I watched the live action sequel “Hook” which had robin William’s, it gave a great impression, so when I heard about tinker bell being evil and the rasist elements I was shocked, and honestly I agree it shouldn’t be idolised. I think the best elements of the movie are definitely when hook and Smee are on screen they are an amazing duo! Everything else is very outdated from sexism of Wendy’s character to creepy implications of Peter Pan. Just watch Hook it’s far better!
Can't wait for your Cars 2 video. I myself am a hardcore defender of that film.
I watched this movie a lot as a kid. Don’t really understand why I enjoyed it, just fun colors to stare at. When I watched it for the first time in over 10 years a few months back, it really didn’t have the spark I thought it would. Pretty much all my thoughts were well explained in this video. The characters were really dull, Peter was unlikable, and the pirates were the most fun because they were the most energetic.
Peter being an ass? I think it’s supposed to show the immaturity of him not wanting to grow up, and even if it was objectively done well, it doesn’t make him an enjoyable character and there wasn’t as strong as a redemption to counter it.
The thing with the natives…I’m not gonna say it’s okay, but it does make sense for the time that it came out. Again, doesn’t make it okay, but it’s understandable why they did that.
Return to Neverland is in my opinion, Disney’s most underrated masterpiece. It told a much better story of how important it is to grow up while still retaining some childlike qualities. All the characters served a much greater purpose and it had a much more powerful story.
Overall, Peter Pan is a classic that should always be remembered, but it certainly didn’t age well and doesn’t hold up.
One Disney movie that I think is overrated Cinderella, which is also an overrated Fairy Tale
I thought it was a great film and yes I have to say Starkey could have gotten some screen time to develop his role as a character and the Native American stereotype didn’t age well. The title of overrated is Sleeping Beauty
I think they have Tinker and Peter act like that cause old folklore fairies were scary and tricksters. Even the nice ones can show their nasty side of you piss them off. Peter even have fairy or elf ears.
While Peter Pan has it's flaws like the titular character's portrayal and the depictions of Native Americans, I still think the film has pleasant animation and some nice chemistry from Captain Hook and Mr. Smee.
Also, to let you know in case you have not known before, the deleted song Never Smile at a Crocodile also appeared with visuals (aided by footage from Peter Pan) for the Disney's Sing-Along Songs entry Under the Sea, when the song made it's appearance there.
th-cam.com/video/eW7a_BDwrsM/w-d-xo.html
I respectfully disagree. I love this movie, it reminds me of my father honestly. In a good way.
Personally, I never saw Peter Pan overrated IMO. I hardly see anyone talk about it much. 😅
But you returned the favor!
The anti-indigenous racism is what ruins this movie for me.
The Peter Pan in the book was a lot more cruel however we get his thoughts and makes him ponder on growing up or not.
The film isnt as cruel as the book but we never get his inner thoughts being a film.
This Peter is still better then Sweet Pete from Rescue Rangers or Peter and Wendy the Disney live action remake .
Peter Pan is a lot nicer and more heroic in Return to Neverland.
Playing around with someone who wants you dead is as Smee said, childish. It is a disproportionate response. Disarming him would have been another pun for handling the situation. Hook literally needs a helping hand to win. While Peter can end the pirates by his ability and allies if he wanted. Fly high above the ship with cannon balls drop them sink the ship and have the mermaids drown them ect. While amputation is serious Peter is not taking the threat to his life as serious. Many childish games play with the surface level joy and fantasy that is removed with real consideration. Having beautiful gold medallions and precious gems as treasure is childish unrealistic fun like scrooge money pit while adults contend with working to pay for cost of living and you just cannot swim in coins
Another Disney movie I watched once, maybe twice as a kid, but never impressed me.
The trope of "Native-Americans-being-s*vages-apart-from-the-token-pretty-maiden" also distresses me a lot - And what's worse, post-WW2 Hollywood movies yet were starting moving beyond that stage, while Disney here failed doing it.
Rockotar chose to speak one language today and that was facts
I'm happy your able to do videos again, and your review on Peter Pan is very accurate.
In the original J.M. Barrie play, Peter is depicted as a more villainous character despite being the main protagonist, where his and acts and actions are simply a by-product of his immaturity: being in Neverland prevents one from aging physically, meaning he 's incapable of change, character development or redemption. In addition to cutting off Captain Hook's hand and feeding it to a crocodile, he does heinous acts like killing the Lost Boys when they age out of childhood, or simply exiling them to places unknown. Disney's version of the character on the other hand significantly toned down Peter's more sinister characterization in favor of making him more heroic while still maintaining his mischievous, youthful, immature and cocky attitude. So there you have it.
When are you going to make a video about Toy Story 4
Soon... ish
Out of everything in Peter Pan, my favorite part about it is certainly Tick-Tock Crocodile for some reason.
While important to the Disney legacy, I can't help but agree, controversies aside. The film did spawn some good things, though: Jake & The Neverland Pirates (which had better worldbuilding, and a better Neverland), and the Fairies franchise, which deserved WAY better
Interesting and pretty well thought out video!
I think part of why I have always loved this movie is that I really do think it captures the pit and the gap between the childlike perception of "total freedom" and what really goes on in such adventurous places. I actually agree that to a modern child, some of these seem less "dreamlike" but I very much think this picture of a child's dream is quite accurate to those in the past and probably myself to an extent.
The idea of a wondrous adventure in dangerous and unexplored lands, with dangerous and unexplored lands, in places the laws do not reach. It's like dreaming of living in the West before the governments hands reached there. The dream is of exploration and treasure, but the reality is of criminals jumping counties to escape the authorities and people dying or getting mistreated in numerous other ways.
I find the mixture of the childish and whimsical attitude of the movie with the actually quite serious things happening (Captain Hook is going to kill them, even if it doesn't work out for him) reflects that quite well. It reminds me quite a bit of something like Tom Sawyer and my feelings about that, the ways in which reality intersects with childish dreams.
Not as good as Mark Twain's writing, but still pretty great.
Even the Native Americans, as badly depicted as they are, admittedly feel less bad because of how clearly they call back to many a child's innocent (at least when young) albeit ignorant perspectives of Native Americans. Think Calvin and Hobbes type stuff. I don't like it, and regardless of any outrage it isn't an amazing scene (although I don't think the music itself, lyrics withstanding, is the "worst ever Disney song"). I do agree that it really does detract from the story in a way I find few equivalent complaints do. The Dumbo one for example, may still be racist but doesn't actually detract from the movie in my many watchings unless you're trying to pay attention to it while I wouldn't say I ever particularly liked the scene in Peter Pan.
Reasons I like Peter Pan: Captain Hook has the sickest looking outfits ever. Drew tons of pictures of him. I also blame him for my lifelong obsession with rapiers.
Honestly, I prefer Hook and the 2003 version