FIRE This Person or Pay Them More Money
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 พ.ค. 2024
- This Decides a CNC Machine shop's Success. Titan Gilroy, Barry Setzer, Jessie Smith and Travis Jarrett discuss the importance of Process in machining. Garage shops to Billion $$$ Companies these insight work with all. Every shop has an ALPHA Programmer, and it will dictate how successful your shop will be.
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#Machining #Machinist #Engineering - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Companies seem to be less and less willing to pay a CNC programmer what they are worth. They either want low paid button pushers or engineers who write the programs themselves, and nothing in-between.
Depending on scale it makes sense
The shop where i work at we dont have any button pushers, we all make our own programs, but we do have an engineer in the office for the more complex programming, but we mainly make our own program
And that's why you should move shop to shop. Get more skills and if they don't want to compensate you go to the next one that will
@@MillTurn4Lifehow often do you move? Every few years?
@@thomaswaalen5350would you share how you got more programming time under your belt? Program simulator, inventor, or hobby cnc machine?
If you really want to know who dictates the success of your shop or not.... It's the person quoting the work. You can't out engineer a bad quote. That person literally sets the pace whether you have a chance or not to be successful. Second in line is the Mfg. Engineer who puts together a cohesive plan from bar to box that equals or exceeds the quote and potentially add ingenuity in tooling fixturing or unthought of advantages to do even better. 3rd is the programmer who creates the best program to do said operation in the most efficient manner. The best program in the world won't help efficiency if it's applied to a poor plan. Lastly you have to have above grade SU people and operators who are not satisfied with the status quo and always looking to improve cycle times. Empowered and rewarded employees.. Could go on and on but these are the basics. And never forget the goal is to make money. All the new toys in the world are great, but they eat a lot of hay and if you don't have the work that pays for them.. It's all show and no go.....
This is a well-detailed answer. I work for a shop with 250 machine tools, and couldn't agree more.
This commment should be pinned. 10/10
Mann these videos are a eye opener for every Maschinist out there. Thank you so much for all the videos you put out there. I wisch I could subscribe 1000000 times man. Love it
Great advise. Never settle for the same! Software, tooling, machines, capabilities is always changing and continually improving. You gotta go with that flow. If everyone had that mentality then a lot of companies will be willing to improve and pay for it.
At least here in so cal a lot of the shops I’ve been applying to say entry level but want 3 years of cnc experience smh. Or they want programmers that have experience with setups in a pay range 20.00-25.00 nothing really over 25. Or they want button pushers with 2 years of cnc experience. Kinda backwards here. I work in a mold based company on the programming side. I’m trying to get back in the shop doing setups. I completely forgot. I started in this industry and changes due to my needs at that time. But no one really is trying to take in employees and take the time to actually be part of the team. Usually from what I’ve seem they want you to crash and burn.
Once again, Dropping good advise. Thanks for what you guys are doing out there!
Your welcome…🤙
Have you checked out our new podcast channel?
@@TITANSofCNC not yet, but I will be.
So many dimensions to this work, literally and figuratively! Add into the mix, flimsy fabrications and casting variations, it gets interesting. The management poo- poos such " trivialities". In my experience, communication is key and complexities appreciated. Under- resourced shops find a way! Not for the faint hearted! Hubris and distance are our worst enemy!
Thanks so much for talking about how long a set-up can take. My boss has been low-key on my case for set-up time. And if the fanciest machinists online have long set-up requirements, I can feel better about the time I spend in the 1996 vmc.
Love sitting around the table listening to the boys 💪😊
Every shop ive been in does things bass ackwards.... they want programmers right out of school so they can mold them in their ways and only wanta button presser on the machine. Not an actual machinist or even someone intelligent enough to ask questions and try to improve the process. Im starting to hate the industry because of these businesses.
Described my place exactly!
@NSW15355 and they pay those kids alot and refuse to pay the ppl actually making their products
@ohNONOky do we work at the same place lol. Literally this has happened.
@@NSW15355 😆 certainly seems like we do
Dropping amazing advice, thanks Titan!
SO TRUE!!! These strategies are so important to success!
Change is. Finding a balance between standardization and the willingness to be open to change is the challenge. People are your best resource.
Machine shops are one of the most worker exploitive sectors of industry. The pay at most shops is ridiculous. If you have any machining skills, you can make more money running a job shop full of second hand equipment that just does the unsexy work that shops like Titan can’t be bothered to take on.
I’m not on the machinist side of the company I work at so I don’t know how much time they expect for certain setups. (We machine very very large parts. Like we could machine a billet 53’ semi trailer.) I watched one machinist do a set up for a week and a half. As soon as he was ready to start machining they made him pull it off and start a different setup that took a week to do then 2 weeks to machine. When he went to put the first part back on the machine it took him another 4 days and the only reason it was shorter was because he took a reference so he could get it lined up easier after the first time.
That's a very very costly decision.
I can hear the passion in titans voice when he talks about having to fire someone. Its so difficult as an operator to have to deal with companies that don't realize what they have standing in front of them and the entire place is chaos. Companies these days don't want to listen and it can get frustrating. I wish titan was into laser cutting, i'd probably relocate for an opportunity like that.
I had a manager tell me that he just didn't understand why I made the decisions I did when it came to putting work on machines. He just wanted to take jobs out of machines to run something "quick".....right.... How many times have you heard that one before?
Like everything else in the world of being creative in design, manufacturing, or anything else, you have to think that what was can be done better. One has to think that it is a "work-in-progress" mindset.
I enjoy what you say and have done some of these things where I’m at but you guys should talk or think about the job shop environment. Where we fix things not make it new. Using a cnc like a manual is an interesting world. I’d like to see you guys apply your thought process to large fabs where things aren’t a block of steel you plunk in and a part comes out. That would be interesting
I just started in a machine shop dolphing parts on cncs I've worked at another shop for seven years I hope to be able to program one day
Interesting, were just looking at getting into nc, We are a 20 man all manual bridgeports and lathes. Still doing well
Bad management can also make a machine shop stand still. My manager constantly throw a monkey wrench in the schedule to try to speed this up, but if he just wait a moment and let thing play out, things still seem to get done on time with getting anyone cranky.
And as a corollary, if you are state funded like in an university and someone just keeps improving the art and stresses everyone to improve their skills fire him for a relaxed non-stressing workplace. You do not get payed for performance anyway and you can use your income and time to control bureaucracy that decides funding.
I need to show this to my new boss as part of my argument that we can't teach ourselves Fusion. The guy that programs about 5% of the parts convinced them we need to ditch EspritCAM (after fighting a switch for decades) for Fusion360 and he's also convinced we should be able to learn it ourselves. I'm more than willing to learn every damn CAM suite out there, but I want to actually learn it.
Starship just had its second test flight and it looked perfect, congratulation's on the parts you guys make for it. Man I wish id had gone into this field before I got hurt. Keep up the great work, Go Starship Go Titans 🚀🚀🚀
It blew up minutes after it reached space.
looked perfect, didn't go perfect...@@brandons9138
@@brandons9138 Did you see the word test before the word flight? I am guessing you don't understand engineering and the fail fast philosophy.
@@walterhiegel3020 Yeah because their goal was to waste billions. Failing fast with a system that costs an estimated $5-10 billion is the dumbest philosophy you could possibly follow. That works for software and small projects. Not for multi billion dollar rocket systems.
@@brandons9138 Excuse me for believing Elon.
That is exactly what my old boss tried to archive. It was a small Company with 8 employes. 4 Turnin an 4 Milling machines to brake it down. He was struggling for decades to standardize the machines and the programms. All for each part only one programm running on every machine and the tools always in the same place in the magazine. Guess what, when i left, he ended up with dozens of different programms for the same part and many different Tool setups. It was really frustrating to see how the employes didnt give a f*ck and everyone was working like they wantet to. We constantly ended up with the same mistakes and machines crashing. Poor guy, one day he decided to not give a f*uck anymore too and retired.
When I saw the thumbnail and saw that sweet sweet sip hydrooptic I though it was about a show tour
Set up a suggestion box scheme with monthly rewards for the best suggestions. This allows input from everybody whatever their position.
Complacency kills. When leadership and team members get too comfortable, they lose their edge.
Bingo... right on!
As an employee if you want me to be productive pay me like I’m productive. If you don’t want me screwing off at work then pay me like you value me and I’ll be something of value- sincerely every hourly employee ever.
This is the attitude that’s gotten way too out of hand in the America. The company pays you to do a service. If you think you don’t get paid enough then get a new job or go actually learn something to make yourself worth the money. If you were really worth the money you’d be making that money now. Be productive and take pride in your work. That’s how you will because successful and make good money. Listen to what tyson just said, he wants employees who are striving with the passion to learn more and do more. Trust me if you change your attitude on this you can change your situation, but if you wanna just sit there and make excuses for yourself then you’ll forever be a miserable employee.
You gotta take pride in your work and how you work. From the beginning, you and your employer agreed on a salary. No one forced you to take the job and the pay amount. If you want more pay then show how valuable you are by programming better and faster. Then don't forget to "Ask for it". Strive to do everything better and faster. Think outside the box, don't settle for good enough or the mentality of "Well I've been doing it like this forever". Technology, tools, software, capabilities all change and get better year by year. Ask your boss to let you learn more to be a better asset for the company to save money and improve programs or processes.
If your employer is stuck in THEIR old ways and doesn't want to invest to make improvements in YOU, tooling, software, etc.... then, my friend. You need to find another place to work at because there are companies willing to do that and are looking for that type of person all the time.
@@xCaptainKlutch97 no the attitude of employers is what’s gotten out of hand, most aren’t willing to pay what the employee is worth because they’re too busy aligning their own wallets. Corporate greed rolls down hill and so does shit. Most good employees end up leaving their jobs because they weren’t valued by their employer, not because they didn’t have value. There’s a reason majority of employees quit their jobs instead of being fired from them. Every business man is out for himself while screwing over the poor.
Typical today's philosophy..... Pay me 1st and I'll see what I can do for you. Respect is earned... never given.... Show me you can maintain productivity day in and day out, think on your feet and solve your own problems, stay off your phone, and genuinely give a damn about the business and its collective goals, and you will be paid at the top of your ability and skills. But I'm from Missouri, so in my shop... you gotta show me 1st.....
@@stbentoak5047 most employees start there job off this way, but when they feel they’re not valued they start slacking off.
I have a problem with the idea that the guy that's grown into the role of lead programmer by experience is also required to be a good leader. The skills to motivate and lead people are substantially different from those needed to optimise manufacturing. It's the company leaderships task to recognize the talent, organise the training of everyone around them, and standardize the processes and ideas that guy has. If you require those skills from your experienced master craftsmen and craftswomen, you'll find that the pool for that position immediatly shrinks significantly. Good leadership doesn't know a single thing, except how to listen to their workers and mitigate whatever issue they have in doing their job. There's people who go to school for exactly that, and those who understand this as their role will do a phantastic job assisting and leading their workgroup.
i like it .....the things we do.
Boooom!
Actually these programmers are the main reason for there less salary, because these programmers open there shop and provide same service in less cost
This is not wrong but a process that everything has to go through.
But everything depend on the work of experties they offer and what level of work firm do😅
the point is just what you are able to do. Are you into simple parts in mass, are you doing crazy 5-axis parts or other stuff. An jepp if I take a look on the average mill workshop over there in the us I can absolutely understand any programmer with a good skill set to buy his own stuff and produce by themselfes ...
Will AI start writing cadcam code?
If ai pays for the replacement machine, I'm happy to let it.
The programs can already have semi automated methods. I used to be a solidworks designer. If you have a similar but different part, you can swap parts in the setup side of the programs, and the program can automatically update. I’ve done it.
🍀
Ain't nobody bringing the heat for minimum wage for a trade.
😂
one H2 will crash your machine, been there done that.
Titan discovers 5S
I have unsubscribed over a year ago and yet I still get these videos in my suggestion box. Not interested now or any time in the future.
Wish you guys would talk about programming for the preservation of the machine more. I can't imagine how it benefits your company or any company to have their machine down for a week or more just because a programmer wants to run max speeds and feeds.
please add subtittles!!!!!
Ooh boy it turns into a mess of controversial and self-conflicting statements when you cut a long talk like this
I hate these videos. I am mid way through my comupter science bachelors degree but it makes me wana stop and go for cnc. 😖 always had a passion for machining videos like from various yt channels. I am just not financially able to drop my current job and take up learning machining while finishing my comp science degree.
Honestly a bachelors in computer science with a strong knowledge of CNC could take you far if you apply it right. There are parts designed solely using computer code these days. It’s definitely applicable!
The cutting edge of machining (be it CNC milling/maching, additive manufacturing, or whatever) is programming. Get your degree because it will set you up to excel in the latest software innovations.
Stay on your path. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
@@MSportsEngineeringThere is NO WAY that you can be a good programmer without having spent time on the floor making parts. I've seen this too many times. People just want to be programmers without ever having made parts on the floor. Sure people can learn MasterCAM and make a program, but it'll be a shit program.
@@brandons9138 cool story. I didn't say he shouldn't also spend time on the floor. I meant if he did decide to go onto the floor after getting his degree, he'd have some uncommon but potentially valuable tools in his box.
The AI generated thumbnail pic is just so steampunk so awesome
"What do we need to do to save money??"
"Fire bad managers and business owners."
"...Okay, but what else can we do?"
I had a thought. If you're getting a lot of parts that visually look similar, why not use a random name-generator to add names in your own files for internal conversation? Sure, some people can remember alpha-numeric codes like there's no tomorrow, but I would think most people could imprint better on a conversation that goes like: "Hey, we've got another order of Betty fittings after you finish up the Steve brackets."
Maybe this is a solution looking for a problem, but I'm throwing it out there.
If you are constantly changing the process, then your production and parts are not the same. In other words not what the customer can count on.
Tell your workers to lose the gloves, its creepy.🤪
you are an American company. therefore you do not reasonably provide adequate healthcare, reasonable pay, reasonable paid days off, reasonable paternity/maternity leave!
Get a load of this guy. Listen buddy places like this often pay you incredibly well take care of all your health insurance and unless if you are flipping burgers every place gives you maternity leave. Sit down and look at how many taxes you pay and were they go and the quality of those "services". If you want to talk shop just look at your "refugees" flooding the country and how they all live off of free gibs. We here in america pay way too much in taxes but in the uk you cant even have a thought that belongs to you without it being a punishable crime.
@@cowthedestroyerI was going to go off into a supportive tangent of your comment, but you nailed it. Employees are generally unaware of the burden of cost of themselves and just expect to be paid “more”.
As an employee of Titan I can vouch that he provides adequate healthcare, very reasonable pay, and time off. Honestly one of the best bosses I've had!👏👏👏
I don’t think you have a real business
Is making TH-cam videos your real business???