Personally boycotting Bowman Draft... I used to love ripping it. I used to prospect much more and I was super into it... no more. Prices are wayy too high.
@@mjrsportscards It's really a shame. Hopefully boxes still available on the fanatics site is a harbinger of lower prices to come. Maybe it'll set off some alarm bells.
@@SpitballinCardsI’m guessing they’ll reduce number of autos next year to 1 in a hobby box and 3 in a jumbo. They’ll then “lower” the hobby price to $250 and a jumbo to 550. Per auto prices will rise dramatically but overall price will fall. They did this with Topps chrome. They’ll do it here I bet.
I was at work when Sapphire went on sale. Not sure I would have bought anyway at the high price. I have 5 Chrome Update Megas stashed for now. I don't know if theyre worth holding but I like the rookie class. Thanks for sharing
be interesting the see how far the price of chrome update comes down once the big name patches come out. Holliday and Chourio have been pulled today. I dont like bowman draft box price, so i also dont buy into those breaks either.
Definitely agree with Chris on Draft. Rookie cards are already speculative, Bowman basically adds an order of magnitude to the speculation, especially the version with no rookies or veterans
I'm not sure how I feel with there being two different sapphire autos /199 of the top guys now with sapphire update. Which one am I supposed to collect? They're both on-card, just different images. Starting to get confusing with all these releases.
Chris here - it's way WAY past starting. Lets look at Chourio Topps Chrome Rookie Autos: Topps Chrome Topps Chrome Logofractor Topps Chrome Cosmic Topps Chrome Update Topps Chrome Sapphire Topps Chrome Gilded Topps Chrome Sapphire Update Now factor in all the parallels and insert sets and try to figure which - if any - will maintain value even if he turns into the next Acuna. Oh and dont forget Heritage High Number Dynasty haven't even come out yet.
I was on Topps website at exactly 11 am central when sapphire update dropped. Put two boxes in my basket and it literally sold out as I hit pay now. That product sold out extremely fast. Phil was right. It didn’t last more than a minute
@@SpitballinCards the auto checklist has only 30 players on it. One auto per box and every auto is printed to 199 or less so the print runs have to be low
It would be nice if Bowman Draft was at a price point you could rip a few boxes to hold singles and see if anyone becomes a legit player. With how high prices are you can't justify holding and have to sell the hyped players ASAP so you don't take a beating down the road.
100% spot on. Buying and ripping is no longer a part of collecting or investing. It’s straight up paying to play a high stakes hot potato game with colored cardboard.
Scotty and T-Pot RIP.... We are left with Dr. Phil and the 2 National LEaguer's .... I can handle that... Fabulous vid again... and I don't touch wax.... Quote of the show..."not all products suck"... The guy in the upper left corner should be an actor.
I love that topps raised the price, but cut out the jewel cases in hta. So now you get more expensive AND more likely damaged cards. The jewel cases from previous years hta at least protected the cards. Good job Topps!!!
To prospect you need to go put our eyes 👀 irl on a player .. hit spring AZ ,AZL , even hi A . It will help you really understand how many tools a player has.. the Bowman draft is fun to get autoed in person at the games!!
@SpitballinCards it's not that hard if you actually pay attention. If you go in with presumptions and then don't actually watch the player. you're going to be wrong. But if you watch a kid for 2-3-4 games. you can usually tell if he's got a ballers mentality . You will also get to see if they actually do have all five tools . and if those tools are strong. True you're bound to be incorrect every once in a while .even the pros are!!
Caglianone will be starting off the year with my local Quad City River Bandits which is pretty neat. I usually don't go to minor league games much aside from the usual game for something to do. This actually is a nice reason to go and see his potential
Bowman draft used to be a can't miss, best product to rip and hold all the Bowman 1st. This was a wait and see as I would hold this for 5 years as it was an investment type product. It's not like that anymore and there are so many options of other cards to invest or chase. The price is awful, but so are many other products now.
You either rip for the fun, or you rip for the $, and the latter you're really just chasing nickels!!! Do it for the fun you will.never get rich in this hobby, but you can have fun!
@Gram72534 I agree with that statement...The thing is this product use to have both factors at a high level and it no longer does. I do still enjoy it and agree with you. I appreciate it Gram 👍
I appreciate the rip, but at the price I'd think you'd get less pitchers. Seems 90%of the Bowman draft autos are pitchers. I wasted my paycheck and got 3 pitcher autos, I know it's only one box but.....
I’ve got 2 Chrome Update jumbos under my Christmas tree…not sure if I’ll rip them or store them. As long as the big debut RC’s could be in my boxes, phew hard call…
Great video Gents. I do some prospecting, but generally stay away from opening Bowman Draft. It is just too expensive and most of my ripping is done with retail, other than a Topps Heritage, Topps Update Jumbo, or an occation Topps Chrome depending on the year. I do like to open a handful of Bowman Blasters and Mega Boxes (I really like the Mojos) when they come out. I do miss the Bowman Draft Lite boxes they produced for a few years. Those were affordable and had the Black and White Ray Waves which I am a big fan, but they never really caught steam. Enjoy your holiday season. Until next time....
As much as I hate what wax has become. Gotta give Topps credit with Chrome Update. They took a Target exclusive product and turned it into the biggest chase in baseball card history. Only took a few years. People have already forgotten about how they screwed people over with 2022 chrome update “hobby.” They may not 10x the hobby, but they’re going to 10x their pocketbooks.
Chris here - You are dead on, the mlb debut patch auto is the best innovation since fanatics bought topps and it has totally revitalized the update product. But man, a $400 lottery ticket is tough to stomach.
i work at a hospital and have talked to a few of the techs and overwhelming they question using a piece of technology designed for saving lives to find sportscards. to be fair they ask a lot of questioms about the type of machines that are used and i dont know those details. it sounds crazy but i do know a guy that is curious about running one through, lol
I don’t like how the 1st prospects are spread out over 3 bowman products. If there was an only first or draft product released once a year that would command huge interest and justify higher prices. Bowman’s best is a good product that doesn’t contain firsts. The first market is too watered down diluting the excitement of the chase.
Why sell something once when you can sell it THREE TIMES?! You think the Bowman First market is watered down, make a list of all Jackson Chourio's Topps Chrome Rookie autos - across all the topps chrome sets!
Chris here - obviously, I agree. If a player breaks out and has some big years, I don't mind paying up for his first bowman chrome autos then. I mean, if guys in this product are selling even close to a Mookie Betts, then what are we all doing?? hahaha
I have a hard processing who is buying these boxes ... not just these, but basically all of the major releases. My household is in the top 10% of income in the U.S., and I would never pay this kind of money for these boxes. I'm 42, so this message is for all the 20 year olds watching. The interest I made in my retirement accounts and kids college savings plans this year was essentially in the top 12% of household incomes in the U.S. That's just from maxing out my Roth IRA every year (starting when I was 21) and investing what I could every month starting in my junior year in college. Also, my dad was a semi-truck driver and my mom was a middle school music teacher, so that's not on account of a "million dollar loan from my dad" (name that quote ... lol). People, please stop paying hundreds of dollars for boxes of cards ... unless maybe I'm the one doing things the wrong way?
Chris here - it sounds like you;re doing things the right way. I appreciate some solid advice in the comment section! I can;t buy these boxes either. I just can;t make it make sense or justify the absolute financial beating of a rip, even for entertainment value.
Use the money to gamble in sports betting. At least you will get 50% value back. Bet half on one team and bet the other half on the other team. It is much better than ripping packs.
I do think prospecting is a smaller percentage of the hobby than it used to be. I never see kids buying or even talking about Bowman/prospects, and same goes for the newer hobbyists who do know about rookie cards, and not prospect cards. Those two groups make up a much larger percentage of the hobby than they did before 2020 so I think it just isn’t as popular now
Great summary. Filmed a few days ago I assume as both Holliday and Chourio debut patches were pulled in the last few days. And can we talk about the ego Elway has to sign his Bowman Draft card with "7" like the Yankees would have unretired Mantle's number. Ha!
Home Field Advantage out of Chrome Update should be getting more hype IMO. It's the Downtown of baseball cards. I do like buying them for the cheap though.
Only the sheep like Downtowns, and they have been overproduced as well in recent years, so HFA is hype as well. Plus, you won't be getting them cheap after some sheep see your comment
Bowman in general has been outrageous. Bowman. Bowman Chrome. Draft etc. prices are dropping quickly on all of it. Same for 2023 Bowman’s outside of Draft. Also. 1st bowman’s sell really high on release. All of it drops considerably after a month or two. Best thing to do is stockpile the lesser guys and hope for the best. Only way to truly make money now adays
Re: Freeman v Elly, the justification for the premium is the potential relationship between Brady and Peyton. On the field, they aren't THAT different...but the generational difference is exponential in hobby value. Freeman's upside is Peyton Manning. He won't ever be Brady. With Elly, he COULD be a 40 HR / 100 SB guy every year. He almost certainly won't...but he could be. That potential is what the premium is being paid for. I wouldn't do it...but I am not a gambler.
Ya, and many never even make it to the bigs. I gave boxes of opened product with hundreds of players, none have made it “big”, so I’m out at these prices.
As a new collector there is no way I can just shell out 400 bucks for a topps chrome box just for 1 auto. The company is really making the hobby almost not even worth trying.
When it comes to Bowman Draft, totally agree about the pricing with Fanatics. But Topps Chrome Update is the hobby's fault. Topps did release the boxes at $200. not $400 which I agree is crazy.
Chrome update opened my eyes the business of breakers has killed the hobby driving prices through the roof I buy singles maybe 2 or three boxes a year bowman draft will never be one of those
Chris here - right there with you. Jeff and I buy a couple boxes every year just for entertainement really. No expectations. We cant stomach the gambling and the disappointment. I'm not sure if we should blame the breakers, or blame Topps/fanatics for embracing it and encouraging it. I've watched breaks and its fun, but its not much different from blackjack at this point.
@@SpitballinCards I was all for breaks at first spend a little chance to get a lot but their buying power killed prices for consumers and turned the hobby into a roulette wheel
2024 Cosmic singles are mad cheap already. Chourio and Merrill nucleus refractors both sold for 25 this week. Judges and Harpers for 10. Good luck to anyone paying 400 per box.
Chris here - yep!! No surprise at all. They';ll only keep going down. Cosmic is probably the 5th best Topps Chrome set this year? Maybe lower. It's absurd.
My 2 Bowman Draft "Hobby" boxes aren't even here yet and I regret my purchase. They'll likely just get put in the closet and I'll cross my fingers the price goes up before the redemptions expire! lol
If someone pulls the Skenes out of a mega in a parking lot, I don't give a crap what 'the hobby' thinks. It very well may come in a mega box. Hell, it may be picked up by MJ Holdings and put into a repack box at Walgreens. That's the risk everyone takes when they play the chase. If you're lookin' to get the big bucks you should instead put your money into an actual investment. I hope that everyone gets a reality check if this happens. "The Hobby" (TM)(R) is not something we own just because we're serious about cards. It's still, in the end, pictures on cardboard sold at Walmart. If you're taking it so seriously that you're upset the Skenes rookie debut patch never shows up online, you should reevaluate your life. (Not picking on you at all, Chris. I just see people taking this stuff way too seriously all the time. I tend to agree with you on a LOT of stuff.)
No problem! Pick on me if its warranted - and it always is! I think we all just want to see the card. Hopefully someone finds it by opening day - in any pack format!
Simple thing… if topps has the skenes debut patch in hand then we know it’s not in a breakers delight just like if the skenes is out in the wild then it’s in a breakers delight box
I get the price too high argument. But this has always been a high end product. It is priced to the future potential of the prospects, not their present value. The young gamblers are still buying Update. Update is win now. Draft is for the grizzled gambler. Breaks are slow though. Quite a few discounts. Might be a 2024 hangover.
Chris I think you're a little biased on the Freeman lol. He's a great player and I love his game but if you're not a Freddie superfan what is his draw? what makes people gravitate to him. If he retired today it wouldn't leave a void in the game unfortunately. I don't even see that card appreciating more over time. He probably gets forgotten by 80% of the hobby unless you're a Braves or Dodgers fan. IDK thats just my humble opinion
That;s totally fair - of course I'm biased! I admit it. Regular season MVP and WS MVP does put him in a pretty select group, But more than that, it;s just who he is as a person and a player. What he played through this october earned him moutnains of respect in the league. If he can stay healthy, he's got a good shot at 3000 hits, 400 HR and 3+ rings. That's also a pretty exclusive club. Is he an all time great? No, but he'll retire as a fan favorite with 2 of the 10 biggest franchises in the game. All that said, I wouldn't spend $91k on any baseball card unless I won at least $10mil in the lottery.
@@SpitballinCards I personally agree with you but I'm not sure how much of a household name he is with the casual collector and won't get the recognition he does deserve for his career acomplishments especially on that loaded Dodgers team
When I first got back into cards, I LOVED Bowman Draft. Now it's just dumb. Overproduction + overpriced = no thanks. I'll just stick to buying singles. Honestly it feels more rewarding anyway. Getting a card you save up for and maybe have to wait for if you're chasing rarity just feels so good. Long term good too, not just the dopamine hit that gambling on a box gives you. Plus usually when you get hits, its someone you don't even like or care about and you end up selling it anyway
it wouldnt hurt my feelings at all if the rookie debut cards were only in HTA boxes. i will never ever pull one but i still have to pay for a chance if i buy a box. keep the bounty cards out of retail!
Good riddance to all of it. The irony of a product that most people flock to so they can flip the prospects and invest into them ends up being ridiculously expensive. Hopefully it happens more across the board so people get a reality check of what this hobby has turned into. Granted, I do feel bad for those that are genuinely just having fun... Prices are nuts.
@SpitballinCards yes I get a 2 cases of this product open it and save everything for a few years then go threw it again. I buy 1 case of different products cause I like to get a good shot of getting something good
Unless a superfractor 1/1 looks mint to the eye, no reason to get a numerical grade. Keep it "authentic" at least that's what i have done on one I have. bc that numerical grade below a 9 is an eye sore. Never grade the auto
@@jaytay1995 Chris here - I agree, especially in the auto grades. The mail things we look for are fading, streaks, and staying on the card. We don’t need grades for that. And a 10 auto grade just means it was a 10 that day. It doesn’t matter if the owners left it in the sun every day since.
Imo Bowman Draft this year was terrible! Extremely underwhelming, over priced and unjustifiable! It just felt gross 🤣😂 I saw some breaks of the update sapphire already and its sooooo much better imo!!!! Topps dropped the ball on draft!
Update Sapphire might be the set of the year. But don't forget that Chourio and Merrill will have two sets of sapphire rookie autos. so that's a lot of inventory.
there's no prospecting anymore and you are paying as if there are going to be a couple Ohtani-like rookies out of this class, the hobby is no longer fun Bowman draft hobby boxes should only be sold at $199 at max
if i may offer some insight to the cause of your confusion and the source of the persistent frustration and that is your unwaivering insistence on the use of logic 😂. he dont live here no more 😅
100% Topps know what box the Skenes patch is in. 100% Topps is not putting it out yet because they see all this money rolling in. As for the prices, it’s sad and killing the hobby. HOBBY not stocks and crypto. This is now for rich people. My 12 year old can’t walk into a card shop and buy a pack without digging into his college savings. All these card shops also charging $100++ for a Mega Chrome box when we all know Skenes MLB patch will not be in those. It’s pretty sad You spoke of joining breaks and due to the hype these guys are super greedy. Telling everyone that a spot for a single box of Bowman Draft Hobby should be $35min is hilarious. Why the hell would anyone even give them the time of day. $1100 for a single box 😂. Scum
I'll just be blunt here: Bowman Draft is trash. No one wants it, the cards in the set sell for a lot lower than regular Bowman. Only if you pull a "goodie card" will you make anything remotely close to what you paid for the box.
Chris here - I wouldnt say that. I think it's evolving as Fanatics figures out a way to grow it withouth alienating existing collectors. Growing pains for sure, but hopefully more people are still joining the madness!!
Let’s talk wax is definitely the “go to” for prospects. Kyle does his homework.
👍👍
100%, Kyle is a beast!
I boycotted all Bowman product a decade ago. Prospect cards are not rookie cards. IMO of course. Great content men, keep up the great work!
Plenty of rookie card collectors out htere feel exactly the same way you do!
Personally boycotting Bowman Draft... I used to love ripping it. I used to prospect much more and I was super into it... no more. Prices are wayy too high.
Jeff here: right there with you. Opened a box every December, not anymore.
@ sadly.. we have been priced out :(
@@mjrsportscards It's really a shame. Hopefully boxes still available on the fanatics site is a harbinger of lower prices to come. Maybe it'll set off some alarm bells.
@@SpitballinCardsI’m guessing they’ll reduce number of autos next year to 1 in a hobby box and 3 in a jumbo. They’ll then “lower” the hobby price to $250 and a jumbo to 550. Per auto prices will rise dramatically but overall price will fall. They did this with Topps chrome. They’ll do it here I bet.
@ I really hope it does. They’ve pushed the consumer enough on prices as is.
The Soto trim card was bought back by PSA after the issues were brought to light. It sits in their vault in a slab never to be seen again
I was at work when Sapphire went on sale. Not sure I would have bought anyway at the high price. I have 5 Chrome Update Megas stashed for now. I don't know if theyre worth holding but I like the rookie class. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching! value of all the sealed wax will probably drop quite a bit once the biggest MLB Debut patches have been found!
Sapphire sold out in under 25 seconds. I instantly put two boxes in my cart and it sold out before I can even pay for them
@@ryanra44 Bots I'd bet
I just saw a Judge gilded superfractor pulled and couldn't tell it from a base card
Exactly they’re all the same. They really screwed that product up in my opinion. I feel like it could be sooooo much better.
Yeah what shame. Previous designs looked great and cost less!!
Agreed
be interesting the see how far the price of chrome update comes down once the big name patches come out. Holliday and Chourio have been pulled today. I dont like bowman draft box price, so i also dont buy into those breaks either.
Excellent point!!
Once the Skenes and Merrill’s are pulled 📉📉
Definitely agree with Chris on Draft. Rookie cards are already speculative, Bowman basically adds an order of magnitude to the speculation, especially the version with no rookies or veterans
Jeff here: totally! But I can enjoy that speculation for $200, but not for $800. Oof!
I'm not sure how I feel with there being two different sapphire autos /199 of the top guys now with sapphire update. Which one am I supposed to collect? They're both on-card, just different images. Starting to get confusing with all these releases.
Chris here - it's way WAY past starting. Lets look at Chourio Topps Chrome Rookie Autos:
Topps Chrome
Topps Chrome Logofractor
Topps Chrome Cosmic
Topps Chrome Update
Topps Chrome Sapphire
Topps Chrome Gilded
Topps Chrome Sapphire Update
Now factor in all the parallels and insert sets and try to figure which - if any - will maintain value even if he turns into the next Acuna.
Oh and dont forget Heritage High Number Dynasty haven't even come out yet.
I was on Topps website at exactly 11 am central when sapphire update dropped. Put two boxes in my basket and it literally sold out as I hit pay now. That product sold out extremely fast. Phil was right. It didn’t last more than a minute
Yep, heard this form a few people. Maybe that means Topps didin't print a ton of it?
@@SpitballinCards the auto checklist has only 30 players on it. One auto per box and every auto is printed to 199 or less so the print runs have to be low
Yup and most of it going to breakers who will want $200+++ a spot. Scum
It would be nice if Bowman Draft was at a price point you could rip a few boxes to hold singles and see if anyone becomes a legit player. With how high prices are you can't justify holding and have to sell the hyped players ASAP so you don't take a beating down the road.
Jeff here: right there with you. Used to love opening a box or two for just that reason. Now I’m priced out.
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100% spot on. Buying and ripping is no longer a part of collecting or investing. It’s straight up paying to play a high stakes hot potato game with colored cardboard.
@@TurdFerguson643 💯💯
Scotty and T-Pot RIP.... We are left with Dr. Phil and the 2 National LEaguer's .... I can handle that... Fabulous vid again... and I don't touch wax.... Quote of the show..."not all products suck"... The guy in the upper left corner should be an actor.
Funny you should say that...
Jeff here: 🤣 This is great -- thanks for watching!
“Phil, you want to plug your show.” Reply: “Not really.” 😂 Phil’s a real one…
hahaha - classic Phil!!
@ 💯
🤣
I love that topps raised the price, but cut out the jewel cases in hta. So now you get more expensive AND more likely damaged cards. The jewel cases from previous years hta at least protected the cards. Good job Topps!!!
🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
Sheesh! I didn’t know that. Have to save the company that 75 cents!
Lets Talk Wax patreon is great and worth every penny
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To prospect you need to go put our eyes 👀 irl on a player .. hit spring AZ ,AZL , even hi A . It will help you really understand how many tools a player has.. the Bowman draft is fun to get autoed in person at the games!!
🤣🤣🤣 - not sure the card collecting community has the knowledge or the eyes of an MLB scout! And those scouts still get it wrong A LOT!
@SpitballinCards it's not that hard if you actually pay attention. If you go in with presumptions and then don't actually watch the player. you're going to be wrong. But if you watch a kid for 2-3-4 games. you can usually tell if he's got a ballers mentality . You will also get to see if they actually do have all five tools . and if those tools are strong.
True you're bound to be incorrect every once in a while .even the pros are!!
Caglianone will be starting off the year with my local Quad City River Bandits which is pretty neat. I usually don't go to minor league games much aside from the usual game for something to do. This actually is a nice reason to go and see his potential
Yeah, great idea! Kid has some legit power
Bowman draft used to be a can't miss, best product to rip and hold all the Bowman 1st. This was a wait and see as I would hold this for 5 years as it was an investment type product. It's not like that anymore and there are so many options of other cards to invest or chase. The price is awful, but so are many other products now.
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You either rip for the fun, or you rip for the $, and the latter you're really just chasing nickels!!! Do it for the fun you will.never get rich in this hobby, but you can have fun!
@Gram72534 I agree with that statement...The thing is this product use to have both factors at a high level and it no longer does. I do still enjoy it and agree with you. I appreciate it Gram 👍
I appreciate the rip, but at the price I'd think you'd get less pitchers. Seems 90%of the Bowman draft autos are pitchers. I wasted my paycheck and got 3 pitcher autos, I know it's only one box but.....
I’ve got 2 Chrome Update jumbos under my Christmas tree…not sure if I’ll rip them or store them. As long as the big debut RC’s could be in my boxes, phew hard call…
Christmas morning it will be so tough NOT to rip!!
Great video Gents. I do some prospecting, but generally stay away from opening Bowman Draft. It is just too expensive and most of my ripping is done with retail, other than a Topps Heritage, Topps Update Jumbo, or an occation Topps Chrome depending on the year. I do like to open a handful of Bowman Blasters and Mega Boxes (I really like the Mojos) when they come out. I do miss the Bowman Draft Lite boxes they produced for a few years. Those were affordable and had the Black and White Ray Waves which I am a big fan, but they never really caught steam. Enjoy your holiday season. Until next time....
Thanks for watching - we appreciate the comment! Happy Holidays!
Jeff here: appreciate it! Happy Holidays!
Great show and insights.
Let’s Talk Wax is great channel. Any others for prospecting
THanks for watching!
Appreciate it!
I used to love prospecting, I quit prospecting at the beginning of 2023 bc it just makes more sense to speculate on a Soto or Ohtani
Chris here - agree with this!
As much as I hate what wax has become. Gotta give Topps credit with Chrome Update. They took a Target exclusive product and turned it into the biggest chase in baseball card history. Only took a few years. People have already forgotten about how they screwed people over with 2022 chrome update “hobby.” They may not 10x the hobby, but they’re going to 10x their pocketbooks.
Chris here - You are dead on, the mlb debut patch auto is the best innovation since fanatics bought topps and it has totally revitalized the update product. But man, a $400 lottery ticket is tough to stomach.
Agreed. At 400+ for a TCU hobby, it is the worst value purchase you can make right now.
They also printed this to the moon, i think they knew the rookie patch chase would be popular, especially with the bounties.
I believe that the first wave of product is always a little better. So you buy more of the next wave. 🤙🏻. Kyle is the best
i work at a hospital and have talked to a few of the techs and overwhelming they question using a piece of technology designed for saving lives to find sportscards. to be fair they ask a lot of questioms about the type of machines that are used and i dont know those details. it sounds crazy but i do know a guy that is curious about running one through, lol
Chris here - I'm curious myself!
Soderstrom is one of my PCs so it would have been a great box for me, but for most others, not great. Thanks for the great content!
haha - thanks for watching!
I don’t like how the 1st prospects are spread out over 3 bowman products. If there was an only first or draft product released once a year that would command huge interest and justify higher prices. Bowman’s best is a good product that doesn’t contain firsts. The first market is too watered down diluting the excitement of the chase.
Why sell something once when you can sell it THREE TIMES?! You think the Bowman First market is watered down, make a list of all Jackson Chourio's Topps Chrome Rookie autos - across all the topps chrome sets!
Reminds me of THE HOBBIT. Why make one good movie when you can make 3 shitty ones.
Since I’m collecting on a budget I don’t have much desire to even get singles of Bowman Draft, it’s just too much of a gamble .
Chris here - obviously, I agree. If a player breaks out and has some big years, I don't mind paying up for his first bowman chrome autos then. I mean, if guys in this product are selling even close to a Mookie Betts, then what are we all doing?? hahaha
and the case for draft is there is no retail of this product
GREAT POINT
I have a hard processing who is buying these boxes ... not just these, but basically all of the major releases. My household is in the top 10% of income in the U.S., and I would never pay this kind of money for these boxes. I'm 42, so this message is for all the 20 year olds watching. The interest I made in my retirement accounts and kids college savings plans this year was essentially in the top 12% of household incomes in the U.S. That's just from maxing out my Roth IRA every year (starting when I was 21) and investing what I could every month starting in my junior year in college. Also, my dad was a semi-truck driver and my mom was a middle school music teacher, so that's not on account of a "million dollar loan from my dad" (name that quote ... lol).
People, please stop paying hundreds of dollars for boxes of cards ... unless maybe I'm the one doing things the wrong way?
Chris here - it sounds like you;re doing things the right way. I appreciate some solid advice in the comment section!
I can;t buy these boxes either. I just can;t make it make sense or justify the absolute financial beating of a rip, even for entertainment value.
Frankly guys, Fanatics itself should be boycotted
understandable, but they make the thing we love!
I love the Let's Talk Wax channel. And I agree with him on Caglianone ranking. I watched Cags at the University of Florida.
Holiday was pulled today!!!
Down to Skenes and merrill??
Update sapphire sold out in 1 minute 😮
hahaha - yep!
Use the money to gamble in sports betting. At least you will get 50% value back. Bet half on one team and bet the other half on the other team. It is much better than ripping packs.
hahaha - as Homer Simpson would say - I LIKE those odds!
Talking about CT scanning. I bet the breakers delight boxes are being scanned. That configuration would be worth scanning for these ppl
When there's a card somewhere in these boxes worth half a million dollars, a lot of htese are worth scanning
2021 was the last time I bought Draft. Prospecting can be fun but not at this price point. And John Elway autos don't move the needle.
Chris here - Brady autos didn;t get me interested and Elway isn't doing it either.
Debut patches have been pulled out of the mega-blaster boxes I have 10 Megas sitting here starin* at me
How long can you stare back without ripping???
I think it’s more likely that Topps isn’t releasing the Skenes patch 1/1 until all their product is sold. Moreso than a CT Scanner and breakers
Yeah, I can see this as well. It's in a late batch - makes sense
Holliday debut patch got pulled a day or two ago
yeah holliday and chourio have now been pulled since we recorded on monday
I do think prospecting is a smaller percentage of the hobby than it used to be. I never see kids buying or even talking about Bowman/prospects, and same goes for the newer hobbyists who do know about rookie cards, and not prospect cards. Those two groups make up a much larger percentage of the hobby than they did before 2020 so I think it just isn’t as popular now
I dont know. Mabye you're right, but the prices these first autos commands make think otherwise. Maybe the hobby is just truly growing?
I’m with Chris. Bowman chrome draft is just a big gamble. None of them have proved anything. Most of the big names are already old
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Jackson Holliday and Jackson churrio have been hit
Yes! We recorded monday. Since then yep, both of those are off the board!
I could be wrong but I believe regular bowman had only a few pitcher autos. Seems like draft has a lot of them.
I believe you are correct here. Definitely more pitchers in draft.
Holliday and Chourio’s debut patches have been hit
Yep! Down to Skenes and Merrill now?
Great summary. Filmed a few days ago I assume as both Holliday and Chourio debut patches were pulled in the last few days. And can we talk about the ego Elway has to sign his Bowman Draft card with "7" like the Yankees would have unretired Mantle's number. Ha!
Hahaha - Chris here and I didn’t even think of that!!
Yeah some of the big names are getting unearthed! Have prices reacted downward yet??
Can't people scan boxes and sell all the ones without a debut patch?
Chris here - If they're willing to spend the time to do so, then yes they absolutely can.
Home Field Advantage out of Chrome Update should be getting more hype IMO. It's the Downtown of baseball cards. I do like buying them for the cheap though.
Only the sheep like Downtowns, and they have been overproduced as well in recent years, so HFA is hype as well. Plus, you won't be getting them cheap after some sheep see your comment
Chris here - if you've found a set you like buying and the cards are cheap for now, ENJOY IT!!! haha
@@garygordon3075 except, for we know the approximate print run for HFA - far from 'just hype' my friend
Bowman in general has been outrageous. Bowman. Bowman Chrome. Draft etc. prices are dropping quickly on all of it. Same for 2023 Bowman’s outside of Draft.
Also. 1st bowman’s sell really high on release. All of it drops considerably after a month or two. Best thing to do is stockpile the lesser guys and hope for the best. Only way to truly make money now adays
Do you think the Bowman Products are hurt by Sapphire versions being released almost immediately??
99% of base autos in this will be under $20 in 9-12 months
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thanks for watching Peter!
Thanks for watching!
Re: Freeman v Elly, the justification for the premium is the potential relationship between Brady and Peyton. On the field, they aren't THAT different...but the generational difference is exponential in hobby value. Freeman's upside is Peyton Manning. He won't ever be Brady. With Elly, he COULD be a 40 HR / 100 SB guy every year. He almost certainly won't...but he could be. That potential is what the premium is being paid for. I wouldn't do it...but I am not a gambler.
Chris here - exactly! The baseball card hobby has always more about potential than actual performance. It takes a long time for people to catch on.
Ya, and many never even make it to the bigs. I gave boxes of opened product with hundreds of players, none have made it “big”, so I’m out at these prices.
Chris here - agreed!!
As a new collector there is no way I can just shell out 400 bucks for a topps chrome box just for 1 auto. The company is really making the hobby almost not even worth trying.
The prices are way out of hand. Topps needs a reality check for sure.
Let's Talk Wax is great!
When it comes to Bowman Draft, totally agree about the pricing with Fanatics. But Topps Chrome Update is the hobby's fault. Topps did release the boxes at $200. not $400 which I agree is crazy.
Totally agree!! The chrome update price is the market deciding - crazy or not!
Jeff here: Yep. The chase is real. And the FOMO.
its just to expensive, especially around xmas
Totally agree!
I've been concentrating on scooping up my O's prospects singles No way in hell i would shell out that kind of money on a jumbo or super jumbo
Very smart
Chrome update opened my eyes the business of breakers has killed the hobby driving prices through the roof I buy singles maybe 2 or three boxes a year bowman draft will never be one of those
Chris here - right there with you. Jeff and I buy a couple boxes every year just for entertainement really. No expectations. We cant stomach the gambling and the disappointment.
I'm not sure if we should blame the breakers, or blame Topps/fanatics for embracing it and encouraging it.
I've watched breaks and its fun, but its not much different from blackjack at this point.
@@SpitballinCards I was all for breaks at first spend a little chance to get a lot but their buying power killed prices for consumers and turned the hobby into a roulette wheel
Hello my friend 🎉
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A box of chrome update or a ps5?
Oh man, one for sure will provide more value!
2024 Cosmic singles are mad cheap already. Chourio and Merrill nucleus refractors both sold for 25 this week. Judges and Harpers for 10. Good luck to anyone paying 400 per box.
Chris here - yep!! No surprise at all. They';ll only keep going down. Cosmic is probably the 5th best Topps Chrome set this year? Maybe lower. It's absurd.
Phil, your apology about Cosmic has been accepted. Thank you 😁
🤝
My 2 Bowman Draft "Hobby" boxes aren't even here yet and I regret my purchase. They'll likely just get put in the closet and I'll cross my fingers the price goes up before the redemptions expire! lol
Chris here - I hope that closet isnt filling up with baseball card regret! You never know what's in there!
1st Bowman Base autos of players STILL in the minors out around $250. That includes the top prospects.
Chris here - and who knows how many of each base auto there are...
Never rip any product anymore, never nor will I ever waste money on breaking. I only buy singles
That's the smart way to go!
"What! No Scottie B again!! I'm Out'a Here!!! j/k" GOoD 2C "Jeff & Chris on the Top of the stream/vid order by default though. "Happy B-Day Jeff!!!"
yeah, "by default..."
@SpitballinCards 😂❣
I stopped ripping bowman draft last year. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze
Jeff said: well-said.
If someone pulls the Skenes out of a mega in a parking lot, I don't give a crap what 'the hobby' thinks. It very well may come in a mega box. Hell, it may be picked up by MJ Holdings and put into a repack box at Walgreens. That's the risk everyone takes when they play the chase. If you're lookin' to get the big bucks you should instead put your money into an actual investment.
I hope that everyone gets a reality check if this happens. "The Hobby" (TM)(R) is not something we own just because we're serious about cards. It's still, in the end, pictures on cardboard sold at Walmart. If you're taking it so seriously that you're upset the Skenes rookie debut patch never shows up online, you should reevaluate your life.
(Not picking on you at all, Chris. I just see people taking this stuff way too seriously all the time. I tend to agree with you on a LOT of stuff.)
No problem! Pick on me if its warranted - and it always is!
I think we all just want to see the card. Hopefully someone finds it by opening day - in any pack format!
Simple thing… if topps has the skenes debut patch in hand then we know it’s not in a breakers delight just like if the skenes is out in the wild then it’s in a breakers delight box
Chris here - I'm not following you here.
I believe in the 1st batch , 2nd batch , 3rd batch theory as well
What's the theory?
Gimme the perfect red Freddie over the Elly, everyday...blabbin for the win
Chris here - YES!!!
Thanks for watching! 💪
Holliday, chourio, Langford have all been hit! I have an update on my channel
Wow, Langford too now. Looks like about 75% of the product has been opened based on the DPAs pulled. Impressive feat for Fanatics.
I get the price too high argument. But this has always been a high end product. It is priced to the future potential of the prospects, not their present value. The young gamblers are still buying Update. Update is win now.
Draft is for the grizzled gambler.
Breaks are slow though. Quite a few discounts. Might be a 2024 hangover.
Chris here - I really enjoy the phrase "Grizzled Gambler!"
Chris I think you're a little biased on the Freeman lol. He's a great player and I love his game but if you're not a Freddie superfan what is his draw? what makes people gravitate to him. If he retired today it wouldn't leave a void in the game unfortunately. I don't even see that card appreciating more over time. He probably gets forgotten by 80% of the hobby unless you're a Braves or Dodgers fan. IDK thats just my humble opinion
That;s totally fair - of course I'm biased! I admit it. Regular season MVP and WS MVP does put him in a pretty select group, But more than that, it;s just who he is as a person and a player. What he played through this october earned him moutnains of respect in the league. If he can stay healthy, he's got a good shot at 3000 hits, 400 HR and 3+ rings. That's also a pretty exclusive club. Is he an all time great? No, but he'll retire as a fan favorite with 2 of the 10 biggest franchises in the game.
All that said, I wouldn't spend $91k on any baseball card unless I won at least $10mil in the lottery.
@@SpitballinCards I personally agree with you but I'm not sure how much of a household name he is with the casual collector and won't get the recognition he does deserve for his career acomplishments especially on that loaded Dodgers team
@@teddo997 The WS Grand Slam will definitely help. That swing will be replayed as long as MLB exists!
Boycott? No, just waiting on the actual stars from Bowman 2024 lol
Chris here - Id rather take this approach as well
When I first got back into cards, I LOVED Bowman Draft. Now it's just dumb. Overproduction + overpriced = no thanks. I'll just stick to buying singles. Honestly it feels more rewarding anyway. Getting a card you save up for and maybe have to wait for if you're chasing rarity just feels so good. Long term good too, not just the dopamine hit that gambling on a box gives you. Plus usually when you get hits, its someone you don't even like or care about and you end up selling it anyway
Chris here - this exctly how I felt and now still feel!
Jeff here: pretty similar trajectory for me. It's sad.
Chris is genius . He read my mind. No interest.
It takes genius to recognize genius!! 🍻🍻
Ct scans are only picking up foil stamps or embossed letters. They cant just read plain ink
From Boston Card Hunter's videos and photos, the capabilities are definitely expanding.
it wouldnt hurt my feelings at all if the rookie debut cards were only in HTA boxes. i will never ever pull one but i still have to pay for a chance if i buy a box. keep the bounty cards out of retail!
Hmmm this is interesting. But one thing I like the debut patch Autos is that everybody has a shot at them! True golden tickets
@SpitballinCards if only the mega box was affordable. in concept i agree but i cant find nor can i afford a retail box currently.
@@forpetesake20I found a few at $50 but even that is steep for many people
@@forpetesake20 I was actually just i a Big5 Sporting Goods store and they had retail boxes of update for $54.99.
My jaw dropped.
Good riddance to all of it. The irony of a product that most people flock to so they can flip the prospects and invest into them ends up being ridiculously expensive. Hopefully it happens more across the board so people get a reality check of what this hobby has turned into. Granted, I do feel bad for those that are genuinely just having fun... Prices are nuts.
Prices are indeed nuts. We all just have to be more discerning with our money,
I have two cases bowman draft cant wait to open it no boycott here
Chris here - please let us know how you do! Do you get a couple cases every year? Is this a holiday tradition?
@SpitballinCards yes I get a 2 cases of this product open it and save everything for a few years then go threw it again. I buy 1 case of different products cause I like to get a good shot of getting something good
And there is ct scanning so mor 1/1 should be popping up. LOL
Or, someone is holding the box while they sell all their other boxes, right? The wax prices will fall as soon as Skenes and Merrill are pulled.
It’s all risky, but….with Rainer, Bazzana, Jac, Moore - this class has a significantly higher upside than last year’s class.
Skenes won’t be pulled until fanatics fest and GRANT WILLIAMS type of player will pull it.
Oh man, this would be BRUTAL
Unless a superfractor 1/1 looks mint to the eye, no reason to get a numerical grade. Keep it "authentic" at least that's what i have done on one I have. bc that numerical grade below a 9 is an eye sore. Never grade the auto
@@jaytay1995 Chris here - I agree, especially in the auto grades. The mail things we look for are fading, streaks, and staying on the card. We don’t need grades for that. And a 10 auto grade just means it was a 10 that day. It doesn’t matter if the owners left it in the sun every day since.
Bowman really sucks. Prospects barely make it, heck most pros from 2022 ain’t playing
Chris here - prospecting is not for everyone and its definitley not for me
Imo Bowman Draft this year was terrible! Extremely underwhelming, over priced and unjustifiable! It just felt gross 🤣😂 I saw some breaks of the update sapphire already and its sooooo much better imo!!!! Topps dropped the ball on draft!
Update Sapphire might be the set of the year. But don't forget that Chourio and Merrill will have two sets of sapphire rookie autos. so that's a lot of inventory.
Jackson Holliday has been hit
Jackson Merrill tomorrow…?
@@Philmingtonwhat if Merrill threw that card in the trash like he did with the Panini cards? Haha
@ lol!
@@maligatorbaseball2789 I wonder if he signed his whole name, or just wrote a J like we've seen since Topps Chrome
@@SpitballinCardsmaybe he’ll just start signing his name with a period at some point.
It's playing the lotto
Definitely. An expensive ticket at that!
Holliday been hit
@@justincranston3925 yep!
Still waiting on Skenes and Merrill!
there's no prospecting anymore and you are paying as if there are going to be a couple Ohtani-like rookies out of this class, the hobby is no longer fun
Bowman draft hobby boxes should only be sold at $199 at max
Jeff here: Man, I would love that price point again.
if i may offer some insight to the cause of your confusion and the source of the persistent frustration and that is your unwaivering insistence on the use of logic 😂. he dont live here no more 😅
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Ya Topps, focus on quality! 70 years of making cards and you can’t get a straight edge on your cutters?
Chris here - we can refuel planes mid-flight btu we cant center a damn baseball card????
100% Topps know what box the Skenes patch is in. 100% Topps is not putting it out yet because they see all this money rolling in.
As for the prices, it’s sad and killing the hobby. HOBBY not stocks and crypto. This is now for rich people. My 12 year old can’t walk into a card shop and buy a pack without digging into his college savings. All these card shops also charging $100++ for a Mega Chrome box when we all know Skenes MLB patch will not be in those. It’s pretty sad
You spoke of joining breaks and due to the hype these guys are super greedy. Telling everyone that a spot for a single box of Bowman Draft Hobby should be $35min is hilarious. Why the hell would anyone even give them the time of day. $1100 for a single box 😂. Scum
Nope ti expensive and rough sucks
Jeff here: hard to argue.
I'll just be blunt here: Bowman Draft is trash. No one wants it, the cards in the set sell for a lot lower than regular Bowman. Only if you pull a "goodie card" will you make anything remotely close to what you paid for the box.
Chris here - to be fair, your last sentence can be applied to any 2024 Topps product.
The hobby is slowly dying. Sad.
Chris here - I wouldnt say that. I think it's evolving as Fanatics figures out a way to grow it withouth alienating existing collectors. Growing pains for sure, but hopefully more people are still joining the madness!!
My go to channel on sports cards. Where s TPot !?
Who?? haha just kidding - he;s back next week!
Jeff here: Thanks for that! And T-Pott will return!