The complaints against it were so hypocritical. I want a G-Self ver.ka more than anyone (i've bough every HG g-self there is, more than once for customs) and yet i never once thought this wing zero ew would be bad, from the moment the photos came out, any person with a brain could tell it was going to be amazing
@@godjesus3232 ya i agree. those fans that kept on talking shit about the wing ver ka also went crazy when the pg unleashed and mgex were announced even though those units have also been rehashes dozens of times
0083 is having it's 30th anniversary next year. I feel at the very least the GP01 (and maybe fb) is getting a 2.0 for it. Feel free to quote me on that.
Bandai will. Question there would likely be if they’d even offer the 0083 Rebellion option parts for the GP01 such as the Chobham armor, aquatic equipment etc.
A lot of people told me not to get this as my very first kit cuz it would be to hard for me. Well I went ahead and disregarded that and bought it for myself for my birthday. Needless to say the build was pretty easy, I had it done in a couple hours of building and didn’t really ever make me struggle. So I’d say if you have never built a kit before and you want to try and love this kit than go for it. Cuz like I said this was my very first ever kit lol. Gonna be getting more cool kits eventually. So overall a great intro into gunpla for me.
the barbatos' legs had a whole armor plate drop towards its achilles to facilitate a further bend of its knees, and now this wing zero just SPLITS ITS CALVES TO MAKE WAY
This will be my first wing zero kit! I was looking to buy one a few months Than I saw the ver Ka announced so I pre-ordered it can't wait to build it !
8:50 guys, for that “Seamline” on the back of the calf, get yourself a line scraper (0.5 mm or less), and covert that seam into a panel line. It will look significantly better.
Must buy for sure! Much better design and articulation than all the previous wing zero kits ( PG, MG, RG ). And it has an action base and water decals included in the box.
Altron EW is my favorite design from Wing... but this review has me kinda wanting to have this to set up a battle diorama with my Altron! Similar to your review of HGIBO Kimaris Vidar, never liked the design all that much until seeing how cool the kit actually is. Cheers!
Hey ZakuAurelius, I don’t know if you’ve had this issue with yours, but on mine I’ve broken the joints that attach the main wing binders to the backpack a couple of different times now. I have deducted that part of the reason is that they didn’t mold those specific parts in ABS for some reason. One of them was splitting and snapped after I was being really careful with it.
So it seems to be a common problem with the bits on the chest; Mecha Gaikotsu had to glue the one on the right side for the same reason (wouldn't peg in securely and kept falling out). Doesn't stop this kit from being amazing...I definitely gotta get this.
Gonna paint this thing with a similar color scheme as its base colors, but stuff like a metallic blue for the blue parts and a pearl for the wings (and those joints comming out of the backpack to allow the wings to knid of "blend" into the kit). Just stuff to make it "pop" even more
I'm waiting for the Wing Gundam Ver Ka version since I like that design more. I also wish they'll give it a separating wing gimmick similar to the RG wing Gundam TV version.
It is. All e.w. is. Just not necessarily the kit's model form unless he's actually part of the model design. Tallgeese flugel should have came with a stand too even though it's not official ver. Ka.
So I have been building mine and the part you say pops out of the chest actually pops in and clicks/locks. You have to push with some force but it does in fact stay in very tightly. Tight enough that I had to use a tool to take it back out.
Yeah I don’t think a lot of people were really asking for it. If you took a poll ahead of this announcement for “what do you want the next Ver.Ka to be?” I doubt this would have been in the top ten. That said, that doesn’t mean it can’t be a great and exciting kit to build. So what’s yur point?
@@ZakuAurelius i most definitely wanted this. I didnt see it coming as a ver.ka, but the wing zero ew mg desperately needed a new version, the old one was good for the time but super outdated now, looks horrible next to the p-bandai ew kits....i can tell you arent a fan of either wing gundam design or gundam wing as the show....but you keep underestimating how important gundam wing really is to the west. Not saying only the west matters, but gundam wing is the reason gunpla is even known in the west, so plenty of people wanted this new wing zero mg
wing zero custom fans got fix configuration and a fucking hirez bro, theres more 1/100 wing variants than unicorns. not even strike freedom, the most popular gundam in asia, got this level of milking
The size kills me the wing MG’s are so small it hurts since I have a physical disability that makes smaller models too difficult to build without braking parts
Zaku im looking forward on what to see inside the Gundam Base of Yokohama Factory. Hope to see some gunpla shopping again. Tnx. More power to you and Godbless! :)
they might do a mgex for strike freedom with all the funnels and wing effect parts since strike freedom mg is quite old and the design is still pretty popular, its guaranteed to sell even at a high price
I just ordered it on usagundam store since Amazon preorders have all been delayed till the 20th. I'm blind and didn't see a place to enter the 10% off code :( Oh well. Hope it gets here soon.
Wing zero ew is basically Western audience's Nu gundam, so yes plenty of people asked for this and wanted this EDIT: for the record I didn't dislike the video and think Zack's channel is the best Gunpla resource on youtube, I just think in this one instance, he and many other youtubers/fans were a little hypocritical with all the hesitation/complaining when this kit was announced. Honestly people who aren't a fan of wing zero ew should be happy, because Bandai's kits are only getting better and better from an engineering standpoint as time goes on, in the end the next ver.ka and many other MGs will most likely be even better than this was.
i always preferred the animes vers of the zero, but yeah i agree with you. i still dont really understand the backlash this kit caused. you can have your hopes dashed, but the kit kinda did need a redesign and this turned out amazing
@@vissermatt1058 100% agree, there is just something about Gundam Wing that is so divisive amongst people for some reason idk why lol....usually the most common complaints are "wings don't belong on a gundam" or "the anime sucked" but if it wasn't for Gundam Wing, Gunpla would be nonexistent in the west
@@godjesus3232 it was my first mecha, and ive been in love with giant robots ever since. though it kinda annoys me that so many Gundam series reuse old plot points from other series, i think it makes some fans act very strangely. but for good reason. not that anyone has to like all the series. im rather impressed from bandai tbh. they seem to have like 2 different styles for their series, superhero type mechs and military style mechs. a lot of UC fans might look down on the overpowered plot protection of the gundams in Wing, but also might forget that shit is in every Gundam series.
@@vissermatt1058 exactly, completely agree. G gundam is another favorite of mine but also gets shit on constantly, but it's just a different take on gundam (inspired by martial arts movies) and like you were saying it is the diversity of so many different gundam anime that makes the franchise as a whole even richer. Even the worst gundam shows (imo victory gundam maybe lol) are still miles ahead of 90% of new anime being released today
I was always a big fan of the Zero(es) tho I do prefer the TV ver./Proto Zero look. That said, this is possibly the best version of them all. Well, aside from the Fix Configurations but those go for fucking ridiculous prices nowadays. It's gonna be my first MG in like 8 years.
@@justinl8791 the Messer Zwergs from the P-Bandai MG Wing Zero won’t even fit on this new one. I doubt it will get a redesign just for this new kit - probably just some updated parts.
@@muisverriet With the new MGEX line, the idea of Kshatriya getting an MG treatment wouldn't be too far fetched :) then again, could just buy the comic club 1/100 metal build version or resin kits but they're Hella expensive 😂😂
Another tiny drawback for nitpickers like me is that the gray parts connect the wings to the body have some hollow spaces need to be filled in with putty
Well when I read the instructions it says to push the little piece as far as it could go .... so since I was building after watching two reviewers complain about that little part, I went ham, it clicked and has thus far stayed.
I saw this kit on many reviewers, and on most of them the buster rifle kinda looked bended downwards in Neo Bird mode.. It is apparent when you look at it from the side. Is that an actual problem?
I don’t believe so. The design is almost identical, but I believe the moving inner frame bits for the transformation are different from what the Proto Zero has so probably a different mold
watched your live stream, the kit looks amazing. im so glad i ignored the giant backlash and ordered one ps, the new armor pieces shifting in place gimick looks fucking amazing.
The only thing that really bothers me about this kit is all the clear parts it includes that could have easily been a nice clear green plastic. They did the same thing on the RG, which most RGs have properly colored clear eyes at the very least, so it makes me wonder if this is some kind of design cue that's just part of the Wing Zero EW as a whole. Very strange.
i wana get this kit so much but the only place where it is avaiable for me without basiclay spendin 1k is hobby frontlina and its not in stock so please send me one or at least reserve one for me at a place you can get it rn
So with the molding of the parts especially with the wing separation, this is basically an upscale of the RG Wing Zero but with actual color separation which is what the RG was lacking?
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
it's a Katoki design that received the Version Katoki treatment, it's like double the Katoki, lol.
Extra long legs!
Ver 2Ka.
You could say it's a........ver.ka rebake~
Yo dawg: Katoki edition
Introducing, the vegan apple
Gunpla fans: we don’t need that!
Bandai: *shows the kit*
Gunpla fans: we need that!
Whiny kids
The complaints against it were so hypocritical. I want a G-Self ver.ka more than anyone (i've bough every HG g-self there is, more than once for customs) and yet i never once thought this wing zero ew would be bad, from the moment the photos came out, any person with a brain could tell it was going to be amazing
Did you mean "fans" for the first one? ;)
@@godjesus3232 ya i agree. those fans that kept on talking shit about the wing ver ka also went crazy when the pg unleashed and mgex were announced even though those units have also been rehashes dozens of times
Now if only Bandai will give the GPO Gundams from Stardust Memory a ver Ka treatment 🤔 They are in MUCH need for a 2.0
i would defintely buy one, i was generally unimpressed with some ver ka gimicks, but hot damn do the kits always look amazing
I second this
0083 is having it's 30th anniversary next year. I feel at the very least the GP01 (and maybe fb) is getting a 2.0 for it. Feel free to quote me on that.
Bandai will. Question there would likely be if they’d even offer the 0083 Rebellion option parts for the GP01 such as the Chobham armor, aquatic equipment etc.
Gp01 comes apart from torso to easy
Gp02 just needs a new full body mold
A lot of people told me not to get this as my very first kit cuz it would be to hard for me. Well I went ahead and disregarded that and bought it for myself for my birthday. Needless to say the build was pretty easy, I had it done in a couple hours of building and didn’t really ever make me struggle. So I’d say if you have never built a kit before and you want to try and love this kit than go for it. Cuz like I said this was my very first ever kit lol. Gonna be getting more cool kits eventually. So overall a great intro into gunpla for me.
You did it in 2 hours?! I spent 7 hours on just the head and chest
@@Bluegundam13 the feet alone took me 1hour30min! Still need to do the wings & accessories too lol
Maybe they were referring to the first version.ka wing??? That kit is much more difficult
@@Tomtenthemech no, they literally said they went ahead and bought this for their birthday
the barbatos' legs had a whole armor plate drop towards its achilles to facilitate a further bend of its knees, and now this wing zero just SPLITS ITS CALVES TO MAKE WAY
This will be my first wing zero kit! I was looking to buy one a few months Than I saw the ver Ka announced so I pre-ordered it can't wait to build it !
Please explain the painting process- what to use, good ways to do it, Etc. I'm looking to get back into these model kits.
4:37
Mecha Gaikotsu had the same issue on his kit as well
I don't have a soft spot for the Wing Gundam, but I will probably still pick this up just for the build design. Looks like an amazing build!
Katoki is really going all out with this and the MGEX Unicorn
The engineers are really the ones should you be praising for.
Katoki only designs the look on paper; he is not responsible for the model design itself.
@@gpaintedsenyo3184 No, katoki is pretty involved with every part of the process:
bandai-hobby.net/en/gunpla_mg_ka.html
I find myself much more impressed with the kit than I initially thought I would
8:50 guys, for that “Seamline” on the back of the calf, get yourself a line scraper (0.5 mm or less), and covert that seam into a panel line. It will look significantly better.
Preordered two of this kit. I am gonna painting another one with snow white color scheme.
I'm leaving mine in normal colors but I'm turning my Hi-Res into Snow White.... Right after I fix that broken hip joint...
Yeah you will be scratchbuilding the feather gun parts and borrowing the Wing Gundam EW's shield.
I wish they gave us those Zwerg cannon option parts. With those, you can ACTUALLY make it look like the Snow White.
Must buy for sure!
Much better design and articulation than all the previous wing zero kits ( PG, MG, RG ).
And it has an action base and water decals included in the box.
even the hi res
Great review, as always!
But you forgot to show off the "wings in front acting like a cloak/shield" thing! They even snap into place!
Altron EW is my favorite design from Wing... but this review has me kinda wanting to have this to set up a battle diorama with my Altron! Similar to your review of HGIBO Kimaris Vidar, never liked the design all that much until seeing how cool the kit actually is. Cheers!
Great stuff as always. Seems like an awesome master grade.
Got every wing gundam kit thats been released.
Can't wait to get my hands on this one
Hey ZakuAurelius, I don’t know if you’ve had this issue with yours, but on mine I’ve broken the joints that attach the main wing binders to the backpack a couple of different times now. I have deducted that part of the reason is that they didn’t mold those specific parts in ABS for some reason. One of them was splitting and snapped after I was being really careful with it.
So it seems to be a common problem with the bits on the chest; Mecha Gaikotsu had to glue the one on the right side for the same reason (wouldn't peg in securely and kept falling out). Doesn't stop this kit from being amazing...I definitely gotta get this.
Had a similar issue, with the left one. Just a bit of cement in one of the slots, and I hope it stays there.
Love your detailed thoughts on this kit. Can’t wait to make my own
Thanks!
Neat my very old hg 1\100 couldn't open both vulcans
Hmm for the under vents on the chest you need to push it back until you hear a click sound. Mine holds steady
i would love to see this kit chrome painted, those wings would look incredible
I tried that with my rg and I had practically no experience and it went terribly,but zaku can, I'm sure.
Gonna paint this thing with a similar color scheme as its base colors, but stuff like a metallic blue for the blue parts and a pearl for the wings (and those joints comming out of the backpack to allow the wings to knid of "blend" into the kit). Just stuff to make it "pop" even more
I'm waiting for the Wing Gundam Ver Ka version since I like that design more. I also wish they'll give it a separating wing gimmick similar to the RG wing Gundam TV version.
Version Katoki Version?
But yeah. I like this new look.
wing gundam ver ka already exists, it came out in 2004. it's OK but not that good compared to newer kits. Compared to this kit, it is awful.
As always the lovely KA MG kit....man tbh i like this kit so much, compared to the previous version of the MG Wing Zero ❤️
I love this kit so much I bought 2! Wish the Tallgeese Flugel was also Ver.Ka. Great review!
It is. All e.w. is. Just not necessarily the kit's model form unless he's actually part of the model design. Tallgeese flugel should have came with a stand too even though it's not official ver. Ka.
Mecha gaikotsu also had the same problem with the chest vents being loose
So I have been building mine and the part you say pops out of the chest actually pops in and clicks/locks. You have to push with some force but it does in fact stay in very tightly. Tight enough that I had to use a tool to take it back out.
I hope this leads to a wing ew ver ka 2.0
that will never happen... ever
What’s your work process? How do you decide how to separate your parts when it comes to painting?
So much for being a kit that "no one asked for", eh?
Still worth it lol
Continue crying in the corner bro..... Or better yet why not make you own gself ver.ka mold.
Yeah I don’t think a lot of people were really asking for it. If you took a poll ahead of this announcement for “what do you want the next Ver.Ka to be?” I doubt this would have been in the top ten. That said, that doesn’t mean it can’t be a great and exciting kit to build. So what’s yur point?
@@ZakuAurelius i most definitely wanted this. I didnt see it coming as a ver.ka, but the wing zero ew mg desperately needed a new version, the old one was good for the time but super outdated now, looks horrible next to the p-bandai ew kits....i can tell you arent a fan of either wing gundam design or gundam wing as the show....but you keep underestimating how important gundam wing really is to the west. Not saying only the west matters, but gundam wing is the reason gunpla is even known in the west, so plenty of people wanted this new wing zero mg
wing zero custom fans got fix configuration and a fucking hirez bro, theres more 1/100 wing variants than unicorns. not even strike freedom, the most popular gundam in asia, got this level of milking
the base adapter for the neo bird form should have had an octagonal peg, as opposed to square, for more dynamic angle options
The size kills me the wing MG’s are so small it hurts since I have a physical disability that makes smaller models too difficult to build without braking parts
I’m excited to build mine whenever it gets to me. First Ver. Ka. second MG.
Hope that i can find it here in the Philippines. Wing and G Gundam is my introduction to Gundam as a kid.
Looks great! Heard that the loose chest is a common problem though.
Tiny drop of glue (or any other hundreds of simple ways to fix that)
Nice just want to ask will you be doing the geno BREAKER next or some point?
Zaku im looking forward on what to see inside the Gundam Base of Yokohama Factory. Hope to see some gunpla shopping again. Tnx. More power to you and Godbless! :)
gotta scribe that back leg to make it a panel line
I really hope its not those kind of "freedom 2.0 hip", because it looks quite perfect
I didn’t realize the pilot is in the chest and not in the waist
I wonder if kantoky gonna make freedom gundam ver ka
Probably not since we already got the 2.0.
But a strike freedom may come which is close
Also, kantoky
they might do a mgex for strike freedom with all the funnels and wing effect parts since strike freedom mg is quite old and the design is still pretty popular, its guaranteed to sell even at a high price
The higher chance that will get a ver.Katoki are the 3 Seed Destiny final main gundams (probably)
I just ordered it on usagundam store since Amazon preorders have all been delayed till the 20th. I'm blind and didn't see a place to enter the 10% off code :( Oh well. Hope it gets here soon.
this kit would look beautiful in a pearl or candy color scheme!
"Is your wallet secure?"
"Of course it is! See for yourself how powerless you are, Hajime Kato--"
"Roger that."
[shockedmarimeiaface.jpg]
I wonder if jabman will make this MG kit of the year like the older version.
What color you planning to paint it?
I saw in another video a guy said the joint were junk or the frame ? is this the newer improved wing gundamn?
Wing zero ew is basically Western audience's Nu gundam, so yes plenty of people asked for this and wanted this
EDIT: for the record I didn't dislike the video and think Zack's channel is the best Gunpla resource on youtube, I just think in this one instance, he and many other youtubers/fans were a little hypocritical with all the hesitation/complaining when this kit was announced. Honestly people who aren't a fan of wing zero ew should be happy, because Bandai's kits are only getting better and better from an engineering standpoint as time goes on, in the end the next ver.ka and many other MGs will most likely be even better than this was.
i always preferred the animes vers of the zero, but yeah i agree with you. i still dont really understand the backlash this kit caused. you can have your hopes dashed, but the kit kinda did need a redesign and this turned out amazing
@@vissermatt1058 100% agree, there is just something about Gundam Wing that is so divisive amongst people for some reason idk why lol....usually the most common complaints are "wings don't belong on a gundam" or "the anime sucked" but if it wasn't for Gundam Wing, Gunpla would be nonexistent in the west
@@godjesus3232 it was my first mecha, and ive been in love with giant robots ever since. though it kinda annoys me that so many Gundam series reuse old plot points from other series, i think it makes some fans act very strangely. but for good reason.
not that anyone has to like all the series. im rather impressed from bandai tbh. they seem to have like 2 different styles for their series, superhero type mechs and military style mechs. a lot of UC fans might look down on the overpowered plot protection of the gundams in Wing, but also might forget that shit is in every Gundam series.
@@vissermatt1058 exactly, completely agree. G gundam is another favorite of mine but also gets shit on constantly, but it's just a different take on gundam (inspired by martial arts movies) and like you were saying it is the diversity of so many different gundam anime that makes the franchise as a whole even richer. Even the worst gundam shows (imo victory gundam maybe lol) are still miles ahead of 90% of new anime being released today
Tbf we only had one mg of the wzew so this was a welcome update
may i ask sir?..what glue that you use on the body,that not permanent glue that can remove easly...?
Announcement: *we don't want another wing!!!*
After promotional video: *I really want this kit*
Hipocrisy at its finest
the RG doesn't have the bird mode option ether as it doesn't come with a shield
I like my RG Wing Zero EW. But man..This blows it out of the water. Might get this one after all..
yo, anyone know why USAGS is so slow on shipping all of a sudden? i have had an order just sit there for more than a week now.
Does the order contain an item that’s not yet in stock?
@@ZakuAurelius No. they were both in stock when i ordered.
@@whiteglint7694 Just be patient. I've had an order sitting in their system since October 2018.
I was always a big fan of the Zero(es) tho I do prefer the TV ver./Proto Zero look. That said, this is possibly the best version of them all. Well, aside from the Fix Configurations but those go for fucking ridiculous prices nowadays.
It's gonna be my first MG in like 8 years.
Wow that was fast. You were in a livestream yesterday
Now I want this to stand side by side with the MGSD version of it 😂
Now to just sit back and wait for the p-bandai MG wing gundam zero snow white prelude
that knee gimmick is wicked!
Now ALTRON will never be alone! 😍
Honestly, it looks amazing.
for a beginner . should i get this or the tree ew mg non verka. and also whats the difference between non verka.
"Incoming prebandai Lelouch color scheme"
The Zero Rebellion, huh?
I think it's even more likely that Bandai will make the Drei Zwerg cannon option parts be P-Bandai. Le sigh.
@@justinl8791 the Messer Zwergs from the P-Bandai MG Wing Zero won’t even fit on this new one. I doubt it will get a redesign just for this new kit - probably just some updated parts.
Finally!!!!
I was disappointed by the announcement for this kit because I was hoping for the Kshatriya but I’m currently building this one and I do love it.
MG Kshatriya won't happen anytime soon.
@@muisverriet With the new MGEX line, the idea of Kshatriya getting an MG treatment wouldn't be too far fetched :) then again, could just buy the comic club 1/100 metal build version or resin kits but they're Hella expensive 😂😂
@@muisverriet I know but I can dream haha.
What is the cockpit like? How far does it slide open?
Is the giveaway already ended? I really want this kit!
yes he did it during the build live stream yesterday.
What are the differences of Ver Ka vs EW model for this Zero wing gundam?
i didnt see the seam line on the vid so i guess its ok. LOL thanks for the review
Definitely want that
Imagine they make the effect parts for the hyper beam
Great review :)
You forgot the the move forward thing in the waist
Another tiny drawback for nitpickers like me is that the gray parts connect the wings to the body have some hollow spaces need to be filled in with putty
And then it will suffer articulation... c'mon.
Well when I read the instructions it says to push the little piece as far as it could go .... so since I was building after watching two reviewers complain about that little part, I went ham, it clicked and has thus far stayed.
I saw this kit on many reviewers, and on most of them the buster rifle kinda looked bended downwards in Neo Bird mode.. It is apparent when you look at it from the side. Is that an actual problem?
Yeah as far as I can tell there’s no good way to keep that straight without tightening a couple joints or something
I am pretty sure clear parts go over the green sticker
Quick question to anyone: Is the shield the same mold as the Proto Zero? They look the same design-wise, at least from the cursory googling I've done.
I don’t believe so. The design is almost identical, but I believe the moving inner frame bits for the transformation are different from what the Proto Zero has so probably a different mold
Seems to be the same engineering but a new mold
It’s beautiful 😍 I gotta get myself one ☝️
Heero's self destruct kit add on coming soon
What about ligths on this version?
How did u attach the shield... 🙄
Imagine recreating sephiroths one wing with the Wing gundam.
watched your live stream, the kit looks amazing. im so glad i ignored the giant backlash and ordered one
ps, the new armor pieces shifting in place gimick looks fucking amazing.
looks identical to the supernova but doesn't fall apart when u touch it . 🤣
anyone know if this is compatible with the supernova wing's wings
That calf knee bend tho
The only thing that really bothers me about this kit is all the clear parts it includes that could have easily been a nice clear green plastic. They did the same thing on the RG, which most RGs have properly colored clear eyes at the very least, so it makes me wonder if this is some kind of design cue that's just part of the Wing Zero EW as a whole. Very strange.
i wana get this kit so much but the only place where it is avaiable for me without basiclay spendin 1k is hobby frontlina and its not in stock so please send me one or at least reserve one for me at a place you can get it rn
It was cool watching you build last night
Sad I didn’t win the giveaway but it’s all good
is it 2 tone white?
So with the molding of the parts especially with the wing separation, this is basically an upscale of the RG Wing Zero but with actual color separation which is what the RG was lacking?
a chinese reviewer said it seems very similar to the fix configuration in terms of engineering. you can consider this a plastic model version of that
is there a full inner frame this time?
Nope! The shoulders and forearms don’t have a full frame.
I wish bandai would upgrade their beam saber beam design like on the dragon monoko beam saber beam design
I hope the releaae the snow white pack soon 👌
Hopefully next year will God Gundam ver. ka
that's one spicy knee bend oooh!!
does this kit come with the base?
Yes
@@woahdudeholup782 many MG kits need to come with their own base fr. I hate how epyon doesn't