I loved hearing Neil’s story of his new wife telling him that he had a gift that pleased hundreds of thousands of people and what a shame it would be to throw that away. Then she demanded he get out into the barn and hit some drums!!!
His book about this journey is worth reading. I can’t remember which book it is but there is a “funny” story where he is in some small town getting gas and when he came out of the store he realized the kid filling the tank used diesel by accident. So he was stuck there for a while until the bike could be drained and fixed. Actually, you should read all his books. They are all worth it.
The Caveman saved Rush sound. And at the same time Rush saved The Caveman. He told in an interview he was going through serious hardships by the time and Rush payed him in advance and made it easier for him.
Later on Peter Erskine worked with Neil on attempting to teach him to swing and explore technique. He said the same thing. Neil worked damn hard at the swing thing, but, hmmm, never quite made it. You’re not quite alone in your assessment. 😎
"Test for Echo" will always have a special place in my heart, in particular the opening two tracks. Great complimentary songs. Definitely a new sound and feel for Neil and his playing. Perfect for that album.
I really liked how they handled the hiatus on this as well. The big contrast is the infamous CNN interview with the 3 guys where the reporter was flat-out "Neil, tell me about your family dying". And no, Neil never really could swing, not even after Freddie Gruber. Gruber did leave us a nice parting gift in the form of the lyrical kernel of one of the best Clockwork Angels songs though.
That 2 seconds of Neil playing jazz kit was from The Buddy Mermoial concert at Ritz theater, NY. I was there with the B man and another friend. That was before he took lessons from Freddy.G.
Yeah, he basically watched Steve Smith (most famously of Journey) drumming as part of the Buddy Rich Memorial sessions and said, "you've gone to completely new level, how'd you do it?" and Smith said "Freddie".
A brief comment about the "Swing Thing" and jazz drumming. In his video "A Work in Progress" Neil makes the comment that "Knowing how to swing has everything to do with knowing how to rock". I agree with that 100%. Another unlikely example would be from the greatest Metal Drummer of all time (who also happens to be Canadian) - Robb Reiner -> from the band Anvil. In their 2011 album "Juggernaut of Justice" they made a song called "Swing Thing" which is essentially a fusion of jazz and metal. Since then, it has been a staple of their live performances and fan favourite.
LOL, time spent on Hold Your Fire, Presto and Roll the Bones: 47 seconds. Btw, anyone else notice that for the Spanish translation "fuck" becomes "God". 😄
Kevin "Caveman" Shirley was the engineer on Counterparts, Peter Collins was the producer - Peter Collins also produced Hold Your Fire and introduced Geddy to Wal basses. Just sayin'.... 😎
Hard to argue with a professor! ...just digg'n J.....btw,...liked your bass groove on Animate. (Commented this before), ... My good bud, John was riding his motorcycle cross country and he meet Neil on his sabbatical. Neil approached John who was reading one of Neil's favorite authors, Tom Robbins (his satire is hilarious!). Thing is, my buddy had no clue who he was talking to until Neil gave him his name....and I think that's why he engaged John because Neil was just talking to another dude (No adulation offered) on a cycle trek.
I can see Alex and Geddy getting together and doing a project. But I don’t see them being “rush“ ever again. Kind of how Zepplin ended after John‘s death and they (mostly plant, page) did a few projects together after that.
Ged & Alex might very well play together again-either on a recorded album, or live gigs-but they’ll never do it again under the “Rush” name. Lee & Lifeson would be catchy enough for an album and/or tour. And you know what, if they do feel the desire to make another album together, or tour together, I think that would be fantastic, and I’d definitely go out of my way to see them. But, the ball is in their court insofar as that is concerned. I really don’t know whether either of them feels the desire to do anything else at this point.
I do like that they have come together on a few occasions since Neil's death to perform Rush's music. From the South Park anniversary to the Hawkins tribute shows. But still, like @MrDuneedon, would love to see them do at least an album together, they both still have the instrumental chops, and one would think, composer skills for such an endevour. Even Ged's voice is still pretty good in the lower registers. Oh, and Justin, why the hate on Geddy wanting to keep touring? At the time of the interview I'm sure you are referencing, Neil was just done, but not diagnosed with cancer. I'm sure Ged was thinking, as he mentioned, that the band could still do a few shows now and then, but if Neil was done, then so was the Band. He didn't like it, but accepted it.
I personally hope they don't reform under any name. Don't risk tainting the legendary legacy. Alex has Envy Of None now, and Geddy has his interests. I'm okay with them doing one-off appearances like the Hawkins tribute, but that's all. They need to have dignity. Don't be like freaking Kiss and the other legacy acts who didn't know when to call it a career.
I can only imagine tho... I did some cool stuff when I lived in Boston, pre TH-cam. All lost in time, had to be there. Kids coming now have an advantage that everything can be documented and put up. A digital resume really. (sure disadvantages too..)
Hey Justin - Reprise Records won't allow it, but I'll bet I could have found some tracks from Jane Siberry "When I was a Boy" (1993) or "Maria" (1995) that you would agree were "Jazzy" (Jazzy - not Jazz), but also had alot in common with HYF... It might be a stretch, but High Water is "Jazzy" in a rock band trying to be "jazzy" sort of way....
Geddy: Overall, I thought Power Windows was a great accomplishment for us. But maybe not so much on the couple of albums after that - Hold Your Fire and Presto. On those records the keyboards were still present, but not in so positive a way ... We would get caught up in the making of an album, and then maybe after it was done Alex would hear it with fresh ears, he’d be like, ‘Hmm, maybe that was too much keyboards.’ Every so often it would come up in conversation between us ... Some of the work we did was very positive, some of it less successful ... That was making the case, once again, for realigning the sound… Alex: It was definitely a tough job to work around what we were doing there. I kind of missed the drive of the guitar because it became so layered. I think in the early 90s we turned around a little bit and started to get back into that groove. By Counterparts we were sort of right back in there and had a nice balance of keyboard events and guitar and the power that brings ... There’s a lot that I really like about that record. There’s a feel about it, a tone and a mood.
OK you know I gotta drop a comment on this one, yeah??? A clip exemplifying the bane of my existence as a mega fan of Peart! LOL What irks me specifically is that "motion" overhaul. YES Neil was somewhat stiff and yes Neil was not a go-to drummer for anything that swings or goes deep into groove. But this Miyagi approach to motion --- literally circles in the air is how they demonstrate the idea -- creates more problems than it fixes. I'm repackaging the way a drummer friend explained this, but it goes like this. A drummer has a number of ways to get the musical idea from the brain to the end of the drumstick, and that path is like a neuro-kinetic chain composed of levers and joints. A drummer *should* resemble a metronome if the main role is solid time. So think of a traditional metronome is a solid piece of steel or some other metal that pendelum swings at certain BPMs. Now if you substitute that solid metial piece with say rope or string, its like tons of microlevers are now at work along the path from the fixed point generating the angular motion to the end point that defines the time in cycles. It will flail all over the place, dealing with all kinds of recoil vibrations, so how solid will that metronome keep time? Not very well, not very consistent. Now think about Gruber's circular - motion - "dance" approach to striking the drums. What they call looseness in the new approach with a new kind of clock, is introducing dependency on more micro levers into the kinetic chain from body to end of stick, so the margin of error in time increases just as a matter of simple physics. On the other hand, the more you can "freeze down" in your technique to utilize only the major levels, where and when you can (like generating your eigth note stroke motion from the elbow instead of the wrist), the more your time will be on point during a beat pattern, or as you move around the kit. And the proof that keeping this freeze down approach would have been the better solution IMHO to Neil's "stiffness" and lack of groove, was that there were plenty of monster drummers in the history rock and pop that had solid time, groove, and intensity, and yet were not stiff. Bonham is the prime example, but many of the session greats were also in that category.
You’re right about the producer putting their foot down at times. One of the reasons Rush didn’t use producer Peter Henderson again after G under P was that he was too much of a yes man. Obviously a great producer, but Rush wanted someone to tell them at times that there could be a better approach to a particular song etc.
Excellent section! This was done very tastefully and probably the only way Neil would have done it. You can tell when he’s talking about settling down in California how he’d finally made it thru his grief that he had to stop moving 1st, that he is almost crying 😢. Got a question for you… you haven’t done any of Neil’s burning for buddy videos… is it because you’re afraid that you’ll not like it? Just wondering… be well and God bless… from Texas!!
I just haven't. Busy doing other things. Trying to finish the discography. I could do another year of Rush related material.. but it's gone on plenty long enough in a row. When the discography is over it'll mostly be over. I may through stuff in from time to time but the 'project' will be done.
@@JustinPanariello I understand! I’m not pushing or complaining! You have given me a wild ride even as a RUSH fan and I appreciate it very much! Take care, my friend!
Ugh! I'd say don't. It's a slog and I say that as a big fan of Neil and his writings. this documentary gave a really nice overview, i'd say leave it at that and read his other books instead if you really want to read.
@@obiwanbenobi4943 I've read pretty nearly every book Neil wrote or had a hand in writing, and I completely disagree with you. Ghost Rider is a book for adults. And for anyone who has suffered great loss will understand and also learn from that book. It's his other books that read like travelogues, but are still fun and informative of how Neil looked at the world and his place in it.
Watch the Buddy Rich Tribute video and you will see Neil playing jazz. Is he great at it? Very good but no Buddy Rich, that's for sure. The whole point here would be the things he learned from that experience and Freddy Gruber and how he incorporated them into his rock playing.
Justin, Neil was not great at Jazz drumming right from the get-go. He did fine on the Burning for Buddy recordings and in the live showcases that happened after the CDs came out. But he got better as he went along. Remember, he only first heard about Freddie Gruber as a result of the B4B sessions. He got together with him and he worked at it, rigorously, from there. By the time he got back to playing with Rush in the early 2000s, he was better than he was in 1997, you know? If you end up watching the video from those late-90s Jazz performances, where he is sitting in with the Buddy Rich Orchestra, you'll see he's perfectly fine but not yet a "Jazz Master". Take it for what it is and don't be too dismissive. That's my suggestion.
You can't blame Neil for Test For Echo. Yeah, the lyrical theme was kind of lame (social constructs), but Alex and Geddy composed the music. It was just too derivative and almost insipid at times.
Wat? Wat!? HYF only gets maybe 90 seconds tops!? What is wrong with these documentors? Where is Force Ten? Where is Mission? Where is High Water? (straight up - from this channel I've come to appreciate Power Windows alot more, but for me High Water still beats Mystic Rythms...)
I was in the crowd for that opening night in Hartford. I saw Rush fifty times, none more powerful than that one. I’ll never forget it.
I'm not a book reader, but when I picked up "Ghost Rider" I went through it like a buzz saw.
I loved hearing Neil’s story of his new wife telling him that he had a gift that pleased hundreds of thousands of people and what a shame it would be to throw that away. Then she demanded he get out into the barn and hit some drums!!!
His book about this journey is worth reading. I can’t remember which book it is but there is a “funny” story where he is in some small town getting gas and when he came out of the store he realized the kid filling the tank used diesel by accident. So he was stuck there for a while until the bike could be drained and fixed.
Actually, you should read all his books. They are all worth it.
Counterparts is one of my favourite Rush albums.
The part with him dealing with the lose of his family always gets to me every time I watch this.
The Caveman saved Rush sound. And at the same time Rush saved The Caveman. He told in an interview he was going through serious hardships by the time and Rush payed him in advance and made it easier for him.
Later on Peter Erskine worked with Neil on attempting to teach him to swing and explore technique. He said the same thing. Neil worked damn hard at the swing thing, but, hmmm, never quite made it. You’re not quite alone in your assessment. 😎
"Test for Echo" will always have a special place in my heart, in particular the opening two tracks. Great complimentary songs. Definitely a new sound and feel for Neil and his playing. Perfect for that album.
I really liked how they handled the hiatus on this as well. The big contrast is the infamous CNN interview with the 3 guys where the reporter was flat-out "Neil, tell me about your family dying". And no, Neil never really could swing, not even after Freddie Gruber. Gruber did leave us a nice parting gift in the form of the lyrical kernel of one of the best Clockwork Angels songs though.
Neil wrote an amazing book about his motorcycle trip!
That 2 seconds of Neil playing jazz kit was from The Buddy Mermoial concert at Ritz theater, NY. I was there with the B man and another friend. That was before he took lessons from Freddy.G.
Yeah, he basically watched Steve Smith (most famously of Journey) drumming as part of the Buddy Rich Memorial sessions and said, "you've gone to completely new level, how'd you do it?" and Smith said "Freddie".
I really enjoyed the well deserved 45 seconds seconds dedicated to Hold your Fire on this documentary
And not a word about the amazing Presto. Go figure.
A brief comment about the "Swing Thing" and jazz drumming. In his video "A Work in Progress" Neil makes the comment that "Knowing how to swing has everything to do with knowing how to rock". I agree with that 100%. Another unlikely example would be from the greatest Metal Drummer of all time (who also happens to be Canadian) - Robb Reiner -> from the band Anvil. In their 2011 album "Juggernaut of Justice" they made a song called "Swing Thing" which is essentially a fusion of jazz and metal. Since then, it has been a staple of their live performances and fan favourite.
The riding footage is indeed Neil. he used to have his partner Michael set up and take photos for his travel books. Video was also taken.
Just amazing that Neil came back from so much tragedy to play again.
Put things on a personal level that did, and always will be a part of myself.
Given how the books consistently describe his desire to record his bike journeys by camera, it was probably him. Probably for the documentary too.
LOL, time spent on Hold Your Fire, Presto and Roll the Bones: 47 seconds. Btw, anyone else notice that for the Spanish translation "fuck" becomes "God". 😄
Kevin "Caveman" Shirley was the engineer on Counterparts, Peter Collins was the producer - Peter Collins also produced Hold Your Fire and introduced Geddy to Wal basses. Just sayin'.... 😎
Counterparts & Vapor Trails are two of my favorite albums.
Hard to argue with a professor! ...just digg'n J.....btw,...liked your bass groove on Animate. (Commented this before), ... My good bud, John was riding his motorcycle cross country and he meet Neil on his sabbatical. Neil approached John who was reading one of Neil's favorite authors, Tom Robbins (his satire is hilarious!). Thing is, my buddy had no clue who he was talking to until Neil gave him his name....and I think that's why he engaged John because Neil was just talking to another dude (No adulation offered) on a cycle trek.
Tough section, but it shows a lot about them & who they are to each other is more important than what they do with each other.
Theres deleted scenes on the dvd. I think theres a part that covers more of the Presto/Roll the Bones era.
"Almost A Mistake"😂😂😂❤
R.I.P. Freddie Gruber and Neil
The teacher and the Professor.😢
I can see Alex and Geddy getting together and doing a project. But I don’t see them being “rush“ ever again. Kind of how Zepplin ended after John‘s death and they (mostly plant, page) did a few projects together after that.
Ged & Alex might very well play together again-either on a recorded album, or live gigs-but they’ll never do it again under the “Rush” name. Lee & Lifeson would be catchy enough for an album and/or tour. And you know what, if they do feel the desire to make another album together, or tour together, I think that would be fantastic, and I’d definitely go out of my way to see them. But, the ball is in their court insofar as that is concerned. I really don’t know whether either of them feels the desire to do anything else at this point.
I do like that they have come together on a few occasions since Neil's death to perform Rush's music. From the South Park anniversary to the Hawkins tribute shows. But still, like @MrDuneedon, would love to see them do at least an album together, they both still have the instrumental chops, and one would think, composer skills for such an endevour. Even Ged's voice is still pretty good in the lower registers. Oh, and Justin, why the hate on Geddy wanting to keep touring? At the time of the interview I'm sure you are referencing, Neil was just done, but not diagnosed with cancer. I'm sure Ged was thinking, as he mentioned, that the band could still do a few shows now and then, but if Neil was done, then so was the Band. He didn't like it, but accepted it.
I personally hope they don't reform under any name. Don't risk tainting the legendary legacy. Alex has Envy Of None now, and Geddy has his interests. I'm okay with them doing one-off appearances like the Hawkins tribute, but that's all. They need to have dignity. Don't be like freaking Kiss and the other legacy acts who didn't know when to call it a career.
It's a funny thing that there are no visual or audio recordings of Freddie Gruber playing the drums.
I can only imagine tho... I did some cool stuff when I lived in Boston, pre TH-cam. All lost in time, had to be there. Kids coming now have an advantage that everything can be documented and put up. A digital resume really. (sure disadvantages too..)
Hey Justin - Reprise Records won't allow it, but I'll bet I could have found some tracks from Jane Siberry "When I was a Boy" (1993) or "Maria" (1995) that you would agree were "Jazzy" (Jazzy - not Jazz), but also had alot in common with HYF... It might be a stretch, but High Water is "Jazzy" in a rock band trying to be "jazzy" sort of way....
Geddy: Overall, I thought Power Windows was a great accomplishment for us. But maybe not so much on the couple of albums after that - Hold Your Fire and Presto. On those records the keyboards were still present, but not in so positive a way ... We would get caught up in the making of an album, and then maybe after it was done Alex would hear it with fresh ears, he’d be like, ‘Hmm, maybe that was too much keyboards.’ Every so often it would come up in conversation between us ... Some of the work we did was very positive, some of it less successful ... That was making the case, once again, for realigning the sound…
Alex: It was definitely a tough job to work around what we were doing there. I kind of missed the drive of the guitar because it became so layered. I think in the early 90s we turned around a little bit and started to get back into that groove. By Counterparts we were sort of right back in there and had a nice balance of keyboard events and guitar and the power that brings ... There’s a lot that I really like about that record. There’s a feel about it, a tone and a mood.
OK you know I gotta drop a comment on this one, yeah??? A clip exemplifying the bane of my existence as a mega fan of Peart! LOL
What irks me specifically is that "motion" overhaul. YES Neil was somewhat stiff and yes Neil was not a go-to drummer for anything that swings or goes deep into groove. But this Miyagi approach to motion --- literally circles in the air is how they demonstrate the idea -- creates more problems than it fixes.
I'm repackaging the way a drummer friend explained this, but it goes like this. A drummer has a number of ways to get the musical idea from the brain to the end of the drumstick, and that path is like a neuro-kinetic chain composed of levers and joints. A drummer *should* resemble a metronome if the main role is solid time. So think of a traditional metronome is a solid piece of steel or some other metal that pendelum swings at certain BPMs. Now if you substitute that solid metial piece with say rope or string, its like tons of microlevers are now at work along the path from the fixed point generating the angular motion to the end point that defines the time in cycles. It will flail all over the place, dealing with all kinds of recoil vibrations, so how solid will that metronome keep time? Not very well, not very consistent.
Now think about Gruber's circular - motion - "dance" approach to striking the drums. What they call looseness in the new approach with a new kind of clock, is introducing dependency on more micro levers into the kinetic chain from body to end of stick, so the margin of error in time increases just as a matter of simple physics.
On the other hand, the more you can "freeze down" in your technique to utilize only the major levels, where and when you can (like generating your eigth note stroke motion from the elbow instead of the wrist), the more your time will be on point during a beat pattern, or as you move around the kit.
And the proof that keeping this freeze down approach would have been the better solution IMHO to Neil's "stiffness" and lack of groove, was that there were plenty of monster drummers in the history rock and pop that had solid time, groove, and intensity, and yet were not stiff. Bonham is the prime example, but many of the session greats were also in that category.
the "Time Stand Still" video was weird, but, it was high time for the 80's.
That was Neil in those long shots.
Neil swings in his own way.
Thanks for admitting Test For Echo is a great record. I think so too.
Did I say that???
Hahaha 😂
@@JustinPanariello Must be sarcasm because I didn't hear that. lol
I sarced your sarc.
Maybe its because outside of Rush heavy metal is my bag, but Counterparts is one of my favorite rush records.
You’re right about the producer putting their foot down at times. One of the reasons Rush didn’t use producer Peter Henderson again after G under P was that he was too much of a yes man. Obviously a great producer, but Rush wanted someone to tell them at times that there could be a better approach to a particular song etc.
Now you know why Geddy's voice changed too. 5 years.
Excellent section! This was done very tastefully and probably the only way Neil would have done it. You can tell when he’s talking about settling down in California how he’d finally made it thru his grief that he had to stop moving 1st, that he is almost crying 😢. Got a question for you… you haven’t done any of Neil’s burning for buddy videos… is it because you’re afraid that you’ll not like it? Just wondering… be well and God bless… from Texas!!
I just haven't. Busy doing other things. Trying to finish the discography. I could do another year of Rush related material.. but it's gone on plenty long enough in a row. When the discography is over it'll mostly be over. I may through stuff in from time to time but the 'project' will be done.
@@JustinPanariello I understand! I’m not pushing or complaining! You have given me a wild ride even as a RUSH fan and I appreciate it very much! Take care, my friend!
Neil had some friends southwest of me in Ohio. I hear
I'm sure Ray Danniels also suffered a tragic loss, in his case it was his son I believe.
Justin, If you ever take the
Time, read “Ghost Rider”
It’s Heartbreaking and
Inspirational…
Ugh! I'd say don't. It's a slog and I say that as a big fan of Neil and his writings. this documentary gave a really nice overview, i'd say leave it at that and read his other books instead if you really want to read.
@@obiwanbenobi4943 I've read pretty nearly every book Neil wrote or had a hand in writing, and I completely disagree with you. Ghost Rider is a book for adults. And for anyone who has suffered great loss will understand and also learn from that book. It's his other books that read like travelogues, but are still fun and informative of how Neil looked at the world and his place in it.
God bless Neil Peart.
I like what Rupert Hine did for The Fixx but not so much for Rush. Go Caveman!!! No reverb
Sadly Ray lost his son a few years ago, so Ray knows that pain of losing a child. 💔
Watch the Buddy Rich Tribute video and you will see Neil playing jazz. Is he great at it? Very good but no Buddy Rich, that's for sure. The whole point here would be the things he learned from that experience and Freddy Gruber and how he incorporated them into his rock playing.
HYF is better than some of the later stuff, IMO. If course, it's not Graaaaaace!
Justin, Neil was not great at Jazz drumming right from the get-go. He did fine on the Burning for Buddy recordings and in the live showcases that happened after the CDs came out. But he got better as he went along. Remember, he only first heard about Freddie Gruber as a result of the B4B sessions. He got together with him and he worked at it, rigorously, from there. By the time he got back to playing with Rush in the early 2000s, he was better than he was in 1997, you know? If you end up watching the video from those late-90s Jazz performances, where he is sitting in with the Buddy Rich Orchestra, you'll see he's perfectly fine but not yet a "Jazz Master". Take it for what it is and don't be too dismissive. That's my suggestion.
Years later Rush family had another tragedy when manager Ray Daniels son commit suicide.
You can't blame Neil for Test For Echo. Yeah, the lyrical theme was kind of lame (social constructs), but Alex and Geddy composed the music. It was just too derivative and almost insipid at times.
Wat? Wat!? HYF only gets maybe 90 seconds tops!? What is wrong with these documentors? Where is Force Ten? Where is Mission? Where is High Water? (straight up - from this channel I've come to appreciate Power Windows alot more, but for me High Water still beats Mystic Rythms...)
If everyone were honest, they would admit their post PW career was whatever. However, there is still one record left...
It was what they wanted it to be. If that makes it 'whatever', so be it...