Thnk you, this was very helpful. I have to say that SWAM didn't really convince me soundwise. But your video was really focused and brings out the pros and cons about these libraries.
@PulpStereo Thanks for the comment, glad to hear it was helpful. I do believe in the realtime control potential of the modeling approach. The sum of controllability and sound quality may likely increase with further updates. I am still looking for the best parameter settings for a wind controller (significantly different from playing these virtual instruments with a keyboard).
@@FransAbsil You are right the idea behind this sample modeling approach is great.You really made me think about working with a breathcontroller. Thanks again.
Sample Modeling brass instruments are not as responsive as Audio Modeling perhaps, but the sound is unbeaten, in my opinion. Back in the day, I was looking forward to the Audio Modeling brass, because I know how playable they are; the level of control you can over AM instruments is shocking. Sadly, I must say the timbre does not convince me. My favourite instruments of the AM series remains the flute which, if I'm not mistaken, was obtained by combining samples with physical modeling (correct me if i'm wrong). For me, to date, that remains the winning formula, in terms of sound realism, until technology gets to a point where the sound of an instrument can be entirely replicated virtually. That is not to say that the results achieved so far are not impressive, though, considering they use no samples at all. The Audio Modeling clarinet represents, perhaps, the pinnacle of playability. The sensitivity of that instrument is shocking, responsive even at the lowest dynamics and, as such, it is possible to get excellent double tounging allowing for very, very fast staccato notes which is something that, unfortunately, I can't manage to do with the SM brass. Having said that, SM make up for that with the sheer realism of the timbre combined with what, after all, is still great real time playability, when compared with old-fashioned libraries. What I would die to see is a clarinet using the SM approach, that is samples plus physical modeling, because, after a while, for as nice as the AM clarinet sounds (and it does sound very nice) you still start to hear the limitations of a purely virtual instruments, when it comes to realism. I mean, just listen to that SM horn; it's an absolute delight for the ears!!
Well, I could not agree more. It is also my experience, that AM SWAM has the best realtime performance control, for both winds, brass and strings (I do confirm the multitonguing response, when using a powerful computer), while SM currently has the better brass instrument timbre. Like you, I was not too convinced by the clarinet classical music sound (it is ok for klezmer and jazz), and have to really concentrate on breath control with slow attack and low expression values for the best approximation. Thank you very much for this detailed comment!
This comparison is absolutely top-notch and so very helpful. This is the kind of comparison vid I want for every virtual instrument library...methodical, almost clinical, straightforward, and revealing. Thank you Frans!! Also: lol, how is Audio Modeling Solo Brass even released? Holy hell, they sound _so bad._ So synthetic. It's really disappointing. I mean, their saxophones and woodwinds are _great,_ but...whatever they were thinking when they developed the brass stuff is baffling to me. Did they not actually play them before they released them? Good grief. I can't even tell what instruments they are without looking! Sample Modeling will forever (...hopefully not forever!) be THE brass library. The realism of those is ... literally convincing!
Thanks for the positive feedback. I admire these small companies that have taken up the challenge to create modeled instruments. Obviously we all would want release V1.0 to be the perfect end product. Apparently the programmers need more time and feedback from both keyboard and wind controller players in order to improve the sound quality. I bought V1.0 because I also consider this a kind of development support. The brass instrument timbre seems to be a particular challenge, where the inclusion of samples currently seems to be the better starting point. The update frequency indicates that they are taking this improvement process seriously.
We’ve been using swan strings very happy with them, I built my own horn sample library for esx24 from some live sessions a number of years ago and haven’t needed to make the jump. But to tell you the truth we think the future is with swamp engine for orchestral work the flexibility of it is impressive.
@Thomas L Thomas. Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience. Mixing sampled with modeled instruments is another useful approach, most likely with layering a realtime controlled lead part over a section of sampled instruments. So, yes, it all depends on the musical context.
Great comparison, thank you Frans! I was right on the edge of buying the SWAM "all in" pack but after hearing the detailed comparison I'm unconvinced by the brass. (Flutes seem great, reeds are a mixed bag.) Sample Modeling brass sounds much less synthetic than Audio Modeling, although still not perfect. I'm curious, have you had a chance to test the Wallander Instruments WIVI brass? I have this one and have been pleasantly surprised by how good they sound given how many years ago they were released, and I'd say they're less "synthy" than AM, but I'd be curious to get your thoughts. I haven't bitten on the WIVI wind instruments though because they aren't as good as the brass.
@Chris Chapman, Thanks for the feedback and the suggestion. Know that I published 4 more brass solo instrument comparison videos (for trumpet, French horn, trombone and tuba) just 5 minutes ago (on Sep 26, 2020).
Thanks Frans, good timing. :) I just listened to the four new videos and it sounds like they've addressed some of the weird phasing sounds in AM but still sounds synthetic. Would you be willing to share the MIDI files? I'd love to run it through the Wallander WIVI brass to compare. I've found WIVI to be incredibly expressive, and it would be good to see how it does against the AM weaknesses in portamento and attacks.
Thanks. On Apr 29, 2020 Audio Modeling announced that they will release the Solo Brass Bundle V 1.5 soon. Looking forward to that; I am still searching for the best EWI instrument settings and will report my progress when the new release is available.
Wind Controller playing Audio Modeling and Sample Modeling virtual solo brass instruments??? Dear Absil : I bought both “SWAM Trumpet (by Audio Modeling)” and “The Trumpet 3(by Sample Modeling)” a few months ago. But unfortunately these two virtual instruments look like that they were mainly designed for keyboards, not for wind controllers. Shame to tell you that I even don’t know how to set the parameters for controlling vibrator ( vibrato rate and vibrato depth…etc.) using EWI . I own an Aerophone AE-10 (by Roland)”. Could you tell me how to do setting using an EWI for vibrato control ? Thank you.
@George Chiu Karaoke Thanks for the feedback. Probably the response of both instruments has been tested more extensively with keyboard players, compared to wind controllers. Keyboard plus breath controller absolutely makes sense when aiming for more realism. Audio Modeling however is constantly improving the wind controller response (see my recent August 2021 brass sextet upload). I do not have the Roland Aerophone. For Akai EWI vibrato control I have one problem and 2 solutions: (1) Problem: I find the Bite Control too stiff, so I normally don't use it. (2) Vibrato approach 1: Use breath control, set the controller to either CC2 or CC11 (expression) for natural volume vibrato. In the instrument plugin also assign a small amount of pitch control to the bite sensor. Then the combination of biting and varying air flow rate creates a natural and realistic vibrato with volume plus pitch modulations. (3) Vibrato approach 2: (this is what I use most) Change the Glide Plate controller to CC1 (the default setting is Portamento, but I don't like the effect, so I don't use it). Now the glide plate acts as Modwheel and with a left-right bending / sliding of the left thumb I control the amount of vibrato. You will hear a constant vibrato rate (typically around 5.2-5.4 Hz), with modulated intensity. A further refinement is to also assign Vibrato Rate (for SM instruments this is default CC19) to CC1, but the rate variability should be very small (say plus-minus 0.3 Hz, this is easily achieved in the AM Midi Mapping response curve). The result is that the left thumb on the glide plate now modulates both vibrato intensity and rate. Try this, or contact me and I will send you the AM instrument presets. Good luck!
Thnk you, this was very helpful. I have to say that SWAM didn't really convince me soundwise. But your video was really focused and brings out the pros and cons about these libraries.
@PulpStereo Thanks for the comment, glad to hear it was helpful. I do believe in the realtime control potential of the modeling approach. The sum of controllability and sound quality may likely increase with further updates. I am still looking for the best parameter settings for a wind controller (significantly different from playing these virtual instruments with a keyboard).
@@FransAbsil You are right the idea behind this sample modeling approach is great.You really made me think about working with a breathcontroller. Thanks again.
Sample Modeling brass instruments are not as responsive as Audio Modeling perhaps, but the sound is unbeaten, in my opinion. Back in the day, I was looking forward to the Audio Modeling brass, because I know how playable they are; the level of control you can over AM instruments is shocking. Sadly, I must say the timbre does not convince me. My favourite instruments of the AM series remains the flute which, if I'm not mistaken, was obtained by combining samples with physical modeling (correct me if i'm wrong). For me, to date, that remains the winning formula, in terms of sound realism, until technology gets to a point where the sound of an instrument can be entirely replicated virtually. That is not to say that the results achieved so far are not impressive, though, considering they use no samples at all. The Audio Modeling clarinet represents, perhaps, the pinnacle of playability. The sensitivity of that instrument is shocking, responsive even at the lowest dynamics and, as such, it is possible to get excellent double tounging allowing for very, very fast staccato notes which is something that, unfortunately, I can't manage to do with the SM brass. Having said that, SM make up for that with the sheer realism of the timbre combined with what, after all, is still great real time playability, when compared with old-fashioned libraries. What I would die to see is a clarinet using the SM approach, that is samples plus physical modeling, because, after a while, for as nice as the AM clarinet sounds (and it does sound very nice) you still start to hear the limitations of a purely virtual instruments, when it comes to realism. I mean, just listen to that SM horn; it's an absolute delight for the ears!!
Well, I could not agree more. It is also my experience, that AM SWAM has the best realtime performance control, for both winds, brass and strings (I do confirm the multitonguing response, when using a powerful computer), while SM currently has the better brass instrument timbre. Like you, I was not too convinced by the clarinet classical music sound (it is ok for klezmer and jazz), and have to really concentrate on breath control with slow attack and low expression values for the best approximation. Thank you very much for this detailed comment!
@@FransAbsil No probs =)
I highly recommend you VHorns and VWind by Acousticsamples - they sound quite realistic
This comparison is absolutely top-notch and so very helpful. This is the kind of comparison vid I want for every virtual instrument library...methodical, almost clinical, straightforward, and revealing. Thank you Frans!!
Also: lol, how is Audio Modeling Solo Brass even released? Holy hell, they sound _so bad._ So synthetic. It's really disappointing. I mean, their saxophones and woodwinds are _great,_ but...whatever they were thinking when they developed the brass stuff is baffling to me. Did they not actually play them before they released them? Good grief. I can't even tell what instruments they are without looking!
Sample Modeling will forever (...hopefully not forever!) be THE brass library. The realism of those is ... literally convincing!
Thanks for the positive feedback. I admire these small companies that have taken up the challenge to create modeled instruments. Obviously we all would want release V1.0 to be the perfect end product. Apparently the programmers need more time and feedback from both keyboard and wind controller players in order to improve the sound quality. I bought V1.0 because I also consider this a kind of development support. The brass instrument timbre seems to be a particular challenge, where the inclusion of samples currently seems to be the better starting point. The update frequency indicates that they are taking this improvement process seriously.
We’ve been using swan strings very happy with them, I built my own horn sample library for esx24 from some live sessions a number of years ago and haven’t needed to make the jump. But to tell you the truth we think the future is with swamp engine for orchestral work the flexibility of it is impressive.
@Thomas L Thomas. Thanks for the comment and sharing your experience. Mixing sampled with modeled instruments is another useful approach, most likely with layering a realtime controlled lead part over a section of sampled instruments. So, yes, it all depends on the musical context.
Great comparison, btw. Most enlightening.
Thanks for the feedback.
Great comparison, thank you Frans! I was right on the edge of buying the SWAM "all in" pack but after hearing the detailed comparison I'm unconvinced by the brass. (Flutes seem great, reeds are a mixed bag.) Sample Modeling brass sounds much less synthetic than Audio Modeling, although still not perfect.
I'm curious, have you had a chance to test the Wallander Instruments WIVI brass? I have this one and have been pleasantly surprised by how good they sound given how many years ago they were released, and I'd say they're less "synthy" than AM, but I'd be curious to get your thoughts. I haven't bitten on the WIVI wind instruments though because they aren't as good as the brass.
@Chris Chapman, Thanks for the feedback and the suggestion. Know that I published 4 more brass solo instrument comparison videos (for trumpet, French horn, trombone and tuba) just 5 minutes ago (on Sep 26, 2020).
Thanks Frans, good timing. :) I just listened to the four new videos and it sounds like they've addressed some of the weird phasing sounds in AM but still sounds synthetic.
Would you be willing to share the MIDI files? I'd love to run it through the Wallander WIVI brass to compare. I've found WIVI to be incredibly expressive, and it would be good to see how it does against the AM weaknesses in portamento and attacks.
@Chris Chapman, No problem; send me an email and I will respond with a Midi file attachment.
I can't fully understand，but i know it's great video！！
Thank you for the positive feedback. Don't hesitate to ask if something needs clarifying!
Bravo
Thanks. On Apr 29, 2020 Audio Modeling announced that they will release the Solo Brass Bundle V 1.5 soon. Looking forward to that; I am still searching for the best EWI instrument settings and will report my progress when the new release is available.
Wind Controller playing Audio Modeling and Sample Modeling virtual solo brass instruments???
Dear Absil : I bought both “SWAM Trumpet (by Audio Modeling)” and “The Trumpet 3(by Sample Modeling)” a few months ago. But unfortunately these two virtual instruments look like that they were mainly designed for keyboards, not for wind controllers. Shame to tell you that I even don’t know how to set the parameters for controlling vibrator ( vibrato rate and vibrato depth…etc.) using EWI . I own an Aerophone AE-10 (by Roland)”. Could you tell me how to do setting using an EWI for vibrato control ? Thank you.
@George Chiu Karaoke Thanks for the feedback. Probably the response of both instruments has been tested more extensively with keyboard players, compared to wind controllers. Keyboard plus breath controller absolutely makes sense when aiming for more realism. Audio Modeling however is constantly improving the wind controller response (see my recent August 2021 brass sextet upload). I do not have the Roland Aerophone. For Akai EWI vibrato control I have one problem and 2 solutions: (1) Problem: I find the Bite Control too stiff, so I normally don't use it. (2) Vibrato approach 1: Use breath control, set the controller to either CC2 or CC11 (expression) for natural volume vibrato. In the instrument plugin also assign a small amount of pitch control to the bite sensor. Then the combination of biting and varying air flow rate creates a natural and realistic vibrato with volume plus pitch modulations. (3) Vibrato approach 2: (this is what I use most) Change the Glide Plate controller to CC1 (the default setting is Portamento, but I don't like the effect, so I don't use it). Now the glide plate acts as Modwheel and with a left-right bending / sliding of the left thumb I control the amount of vibrato. You will hear a constant vibrato rate (typically around 5.2-5.4 Hz), with modulated intensity. A further refinement is to also assign Vibrato Rate (for SM instruments this is default CC19) to CC1, but the rate variability should be very small (say plus-minus 0.3 Hz, this is easily achieved in the AM Midi Mapping response curve). The result is that the left thumb on the glide plate now modulates both vibrato intensity and rate. Try this, or contact me and I will send you the AM instrument presets. Good luck!