Happy to see this other channel to come to life again. This seems like the kind of thing we engineers love to have as a hobby. I would finally get to do a project where I am the customer… for better or worse.
My wife and I are setting up off grid in Northern Nevada. We are setting up a SW4048 CL150... Solar array will be mounted on top of a High Cube Container and all equipment located inside (shortest runs possible). We were able to retrieve 2 48 volt Absolyte Telecomm battery banks for storage. We'll see how long they will operate and then purchase new battery banks later when we expand the system. Thanks for posting your video!
Nice system you have. No wonder I haven't seen you in a while. You've been a busy man. I built 134kWh LFE for $30k. Three days worth if conservative. I'm glad I chose two SolArk12K. Customer service is still important to them and my 10kw Honeywell LP gen runs direct just fine, pumping out 41A @ 240vac. I installed a 9k mini split to keep electronics at 70F/50%rh. We consume 30-80kWh/day.
@@TheMountainGarden Well, maybe. The Ford Charge Station Pro and Intelligent Home Backup is kinda a combined yet separate setup. For charging, it works like a regular EVSE at up to 80A (can set to lower). But for backup, it uses the high-voltage CCS DC connection to the vehicle battery. For backup, the Charge Station Pro is just a pass thru - DC goes to a separate SunRun inverter (9.6kW). So you can get a long run out of it like you do with your solar array back to your power shed. If you put the Ford EVSE (Charge Station Pro) near the vehicle, you should be able to run the pass-thru DC down to your power shed to feed the SunRun inverter and autotransfer switch there. For charging the truck you do need an AC circuit run to the Charge Station Pro. Probably you'd set that much lower than the 80A max given the run length and solar and battery system size. Just a thought, but I think it would be doable for you. Not that you need it - given your large battery bank however.
@@billjohnson3344 I hold a contract to install fords two way chargers in several regions. Without typing a bunch of technical jargon, you’re wrong. Gotta be close to the demand and supply.
@@mattbrew11 Perhaps you need to re-read. For home back (not charging), there is no reason the inverter can't be close to the home and the Charge Station Pro (pass-thru) closer to the vehicle - and large distance DC run between the two of them. Same as a solar panel setup, electric grid, etc. Would like to see your technical jargon that shows otherwise. Always happy to learn if there is some non-obvious limitation with how Ford has done things - but there would be no electrical issue.
As the abnormal amounts of rainfall flood your area currently. I pray you both and your animals are safe and no major damage has come to your farm. Hang in there.
Considering the gas prices at the moment, having electric power tools and an electric buggy/side-by-side to use around the property with so much solar would surely make financial sense.
As some one that has been in the solar business since 1976, I'm glad to see a video with real life data. Also, love the lead acid battery bank. It's rare anymore to see an off grid system with flooded lead acid batteries. Kudos to you my friend. My old Trace SW5548 is 20+ years old and I'm looking for its replacement. Been looking at outback and Schneider, but have read not so glowing comments about Schneider support. From what I heard in your video, it sounds like you may have experienced this as well.
Thank you so much :) With all of the wisdom that came out of Tesla, I am surprised they do not offer led-acid battery systems as well. They require more space but are much cheaper.
As one that has gone through the process I can see the logic in what you have done. I have just expanded my installation this year which is now 30kWh of batteries (sonnen 15kWh/3 phase each) and 44 Canadian Solar HiKu - 30 405W and 14-455W) with twin Fronius Symo (10kW and 5 kW). I would add though a couple thoughts: try and identify not only your consumption in total but big items such as pumps, AC as you can probably work your schedules for best solar utilisation. Also, if possible, check prices/change appliances that are inefficient as you probably will save more money by reducing installation size rather than investing in efficient appliances. I already changed hoy water heater and dryer to heat pump models and they not only use less energy but less PEAK energy. Also A/C units with inverter designs compared to conventional. Much analysis you see in internet comparing payback of investing in efficient appliances require high energy costs to be interesting but if off-grid the numbers may be different. And if appliance already needs replacement then no brainer. The last is oversize array vs inverter - all major manufacturers recommend you do and for good reason. If installed in your roof you will not have to go up and clean as often and as Alex said would normally work in the higher efficiency range for inverter.
It would be interesting to see the conversion numbers of using propane to generate electricity then that electricity to operate heat pumps. I'm curious, but the conversion may be a wash or gain over using propane direct for heat. Why? COP of the heat pumps being manufactured today. Current heat pump tech is still more energy efficient that burning natural gas directly to heat a space, even with all of the transmission losses.
I found a great deal on solar panels but the problem was that it would cost $2,000 to ship them to me up in the northeast. That seems to be the limiting factor solar is only affordable if you live down in the Southwest where they sell them.
Well, you were doing we'll, Intell you got to the batteries. If you can get a 300 ah, 200amp. For 751.00 bucks, you're on to something. You can get some nursery heating pads That is very low voltage. And cheap. they keep your bank between 65° and 75° You can put them into a 4p4s arrangement.
Thanks for a deeper dive on this subject. I would LOVE to be able to do PV with battery storage at my house, but 1) my partner and I are not yet sure if this is our forever home 2) the roof is very oddly shaped. The house originally was rectangular and sloped down at each side of the house, but it had a significant addition in the 80s that makes it kind of d-shaped (imagine the lower loop of the "d" to be a square) but the roof still slopes down on every side. 3) much of our discretionary income is being spent on a career change for me (automotive technician to electrical engineer/computer science) We would most likely need to remain on the grid because we both drive EVs (and a lot of miles) and all of our big power consumers (water heater, kitchen range, dryer, AC, everything exc. the gas furnace) are electric. Last year, during a particularly hot heat wave and when we were both driving 2,500mi/month in EVs (5,000 miles total) we had a month where we used like 2,800kwh lol (like 2,200 kWh of that was off peak, thankfully). It would be really nice to eliminate all of our on- and mid-peak power usage and only use power from the grid during off-peak since its like $0.05/kwh vs like $0.35/kwh on-peak. Plus, of course, it would be nice to have a more environmentally responsible power source. I did a micro-grid design for one of my engineering classes (designed a completely off-the-grid system for a shopping center, using only PV, battery storage and generators). I thought that lithium batteries would be a no-brainer but I was shocked (heh) by the relatively small advantage that they have over properly designed lead-acid batteries. If you have a small, temperature controlled space, don't want to think about the batteries and have a LOT of money, lithium is the way to go. Otherwise, lead-acid is a much better choice. They just require some occasional care and feeding, and a lot of space.
@@TheMountainGarden Do you for see any big advancements in solar panel tech in the next 10 years? Or do you think it’s more like an intel CPU and double AA battery tech scenario where the technology has more or less plateaued within the past 10 years as we are bound by the limits of physics and atoms?
@@SilverScarletSpider It's a slow march. The cost per watt is dropping but panel efficiency hasn't moved as far, so the area the panels will occupy hasn't changes substantially. Warranties and power output after 25 years has significantly improved. IMHO, in 10 years the big changes will be cost more than anything.
Also hear to answer questions if anyone has them. I own a very large solar company with tens of thousands of installations in many states and my own home at 9500ft is completely off grid and its a sizeable home with every imaginable modern convenience and ev charging
How do you like your REC 370 panels? I'm thinking of doing a sys with either 370 or 400 panels myself . Thanks for showing your sys I also have been thinking about using 3 units but not to many sys have that set up
Thank you for the thorough detailing of your off-grid power strategy. Living in a space constrained townhome in a dense urban setting, I decided to stick with the grid - currently, I have a roof installed 4kW system and rely on net metering. I too chose a REC panel, 10 split-cell panels rated at 400 watts apiece. As you say, if space is at a premium and you want solar, you should stick with the highest efficiency for a given price per Watt. I will note that there are more efficient panels on the market than the ones I chose, but they are a classic example of decreasing returns. Although there are efficiency gains in more expensive panels, they are slight, while price significantly increases. My question: why did you choose large inverters for your panel system, instead of microinverters? Does the answer have to do with needing DC for the battery charging?
The cost and relative loss and efficiency are better in this situation with large charge controllers vs micro-inverters. For a grid tie system micro-inverters make a great deal of sense, but in this application the off-grid setup with Enphase stuff was expensive and not really well thought out for a permanent off-grid setup. The Schneider system allows the integration of micro inverters and grid control via "grid forming" so you can mix some in this situation which is our plan this year. There will be about 5kW of micro inverter capacity added at some point.
@@TheMountainGarden Great video. Curious regarding your expansion plan. The Schneider setup can AC couple with most string inverters - you don't need microinverters per say. For example, the SMA Sunnyboy series is a 3 MPPT high voltage inverter solution - for maximum efficiency for long runs like you have. Microinverters are more expensive like you mentioned, a bit more to install, and a bit less efficient (all things considered). But they make sense if 1) you have severe shading, 2) want individual panel monitoring, 3) have a very small system you want to easily scale later, 4) have rapid shutdown requirements. I didn't get the impression that you had any of that going on, so I'm curious why you are leaning toward microinverters vs. AC coupled string inverters - or just another Schneider charge controller.
The ozone water setup - I have high levels of ferris iron 10ppm and about 6.8 ph. Do you have any idea if this will be effective with heavy iron content like I have?
8,000 cycle lead , this will be interesting to see. Your argument for cooling making up for lead efficiency loss doesn't hold water. A tiny mini split will condition a battery/ inverter shed for next to nothing. 20 percent loss from that size lead bank would heat / cool a small house.
The loss is far from 20%. At our charge/discharge rate and depth the cycle efficiency is somewhere around 90-91% vs 99% ish for most of the lithium chemistries. However running even a minisplit to cool the pack would consume at least 1,000 watts for the bulk of the charge cycle and keep in mind that the cooling requirements and heating requirements in colder weather mean you will be running the heat pump for more than just solar producing hours. At our usage, even just running a mini split during the charging hours a lithium pack's cooling requirement just doesn't pencil out. Our next door neighbors with almost the same Surette Rolls batteries have been odd grid for 17 years on the original lead batteries, just 5 more years and they are at ~8.000 cycles.
I'd love to see all the technical details. However it might indeed be too dry. I'm disappointed by the number of views so far. I hope it improves, but I understand if such videos aren't worth your investment. 😔
What kind of advice and pricing can you give to a home that cosume like 80kwh a day I want to go off the grid just in case we get minimum 11 hours of sun light and we live in a hot climate the Caribbean
80 is certainly high utilization, our 15k rated panel system and inverters are good for about 78 kwh at the peak of the year, so I would say, depending on when your use happens (day vs night) you'll probably want a similarly sized array (you get more light) but a bigger battery bank than us, probably 50% larger. Size the batteries for 2x daily use.
It's pretty rare. In the summer we've used it for a few hours a day for 3-4 days when the sky was blacked out with wildfire smoke, in the winter we will use it once or twice when there's a big storm and we cannot re-connect to the grid.
@@TheMountainGarden Good, so you don't have to care about it covering your main source of electricity. What about connecting to the grid? Too expensive? Thanks.
Happy to see this other channel to come to life again. This seems like the kind of thing we engineers love to have as a hobby. I would finally get to do a project where I am the customer… for better or worse.
The sheer amount of knowledge this man holds is actually ridiculous
My wife and I are setting up off grid in Northern Nevada. We are setting up a SW4048 CL150... Solar array will be mounted on top of a High Cube Container and all equipment located inside (shortest runs possible). We were able to retrieve 2 48 volt Absolyte Telecomm battery banks for storage. We'll see how long they will operate and then purchase new battery banks later when we expand the system. Thanks for posting your video!
Nice system you have. No wonder I haven't seen you in a while. You've been a busy man. I built 134kWh LFE for $30k. Three days worth if conservative. I'm glad I chose two SolArk12K. Customer service is still important to them and my 10kw Honeywell LP gen runs direct just fine, pumping out 41A @ 240vac. I installed a 9k mini split to keep electronics at 70F/50%rh. We consume 30-80kWh/day.
Thanks for sharing your setup!
Very helpful video. Thank you Alex!
The Ford Lightning really sounds like it might be perfect for your home!
I would love to see high-geek-rated deep-dive on adapting a F-150 Lighting into a preexisting solar setup.
Sadly our inverter bank is waaaaay too far for the Ford backup feature to really be well integrated
@@TheMountainGarden Well, maybe. The Ford Charge Station Pro and Intelligent Home Backup is kinda a combined yet separate setup. For charging, it works like a regular EVSE at up to 80A (can set to lower). But for backup, it uses the high-voltage CCS DC connection to the vehicle battery. For backup, the Charge Station Pro is just a pass thru - DC goes to a separate SunRun inverter (9.6kW). So you can get a long run out of it like you do with your solar array back to your power shed. If you put the Ford EVSE (Charge Station Pro) near the vehicle, you should be able to run the pass-thru DC down to your power shed to feed the SunRun inverter and autotransfer switch there.
For charging the truck you do need an AC circuit run to the Charge Station Pro. Probably you'd set that much lower than the 80A max given the run length and solar and battery system size.
Just a thought, but I think it would be doable for you. Not that you need it - given your large battery bank however.
@@billjohnson3344 I hold a contract to install fords two way chargers in several regions. Without typing a bunch of technical jargon, you’re wrong. Gotta be close to the demand and supply.
@@mattbrew11 Perhaps you need to re-read. For home back (not charging), there is no reason the inverter can't be close to the home and the Charge Station Pro (pass-thru) closer to the vehicle - and large distance DC run between the two of them. Same as a solar panel setup, electric grid, etc. Would like to see your technical jargon that shows otherwise. Always happy to learn if there is some non-obvious limitation with how Ford has done things - but there would be no electrical issue.
Wonderful episode. Cathartic to watch. Thank you Alex :)
As the abnormal amounts of rainfall flood your area currently. I pray you both and your animals are safe and no major damage has come to your farm. Hang in there.
Considering the gas prices at the moment, having electric power tools and an electric buggy/side-by-side to use around the property with so much solar would surely make financial sense.
Check out the price of an electric side by side... Sadly they are insanely expensive compared to a basic gas model.
As some one that has been in the solar business since 1976, I'm glad to see a video with real life data. Also, love the lead acid battery bank. It's rare anymore to see an off grid system with flooded lead acid batteries. Kudos to you my friend. My old Trace SW5548 is 20+ years old and I'm looking for its replacement. Been looking at outback and Schneider, but have read not so glowing comments about Schneider support. From what I heard in your video, it sounds like you may have experienced this as well.
Thank you so much :)
With all of the wisdom that came out of Tesla, I am surprised they do not offer led-acid battery systems as well.
They require more space but are much cheaper.
As one that has gone through the process I can see the logic in what you have done. I have just expanded my installation this year which is now 30kWh of batteries (sonnen 15kWh/3 phase each) and 44 Canadian Solar HiKu - 30 405W and 14-455W) with twin Fronius Symo (10kW and 5 kW). I would add though a couple thoughts: try and identify not only your consumption in total but big items such as pumps, AC as you can probably work your schedules for best solar utilisation.
Also, if possible, check prices/change appliances that are inefficient as you probably will save more money by reducing installation size rather than investing in efficient appliances. I already changed hoy water heater and dryer to heat pump models and they not only use less energy but less PEAK energy. Also A/C units with inverter designs compared to conventional. Much analysis you see in internet comparing payback of investing in efficient appliances require high energy costs to be interesting but if off-grid the numbers may be different. And if appliance already needs replacement then no brainer.
The last is oversize array vs inverter - all major manufacturers recommend you do and for good reason. If installed in your roof you will not have to go up and clean as often and as Alex said would normally work in the higher efficiency range for inverter.
Living in a mostly temperate area, how much fuel do you usually go through with the generator during the winter?
Very little, maybe 10 gallons a year
It would be interesting to see the conversion numbers of using propane to generate electricity then that electricity to operate heat pumps. I'm curious, but the conversion may be a wash or gain over using propane direct for heat. Why? COP of the heat pumps being manufactured today.
Current heat pump tech is still more energy efficient that burning natural gas directly to heat a space, even with all of the transmission losses.
I found a great deal on solar panels but the problem was that it would cost $2,000 to ship them to me up in the northeast. That seems to be the limiting factor solar is only affordable if you live down in the Southwest where they sell them.
Well, you were doing we'll, Intell you got to the batteries. If you can get a 300 ah, 200amp. For 751.00 bucks, you're on to something. You can get some nursery heating pads
That is very low voltage.
And cheap. they keep your bank between 65° and 75°
You can put them into a 4p4s arrangement.
ALEX ON AUTOS!!!!!!! I know that voice anywhere.
Thanks for a deeper dive on this subject. I would LOVE to be able to do PV with battery storage at my house, but
1) my partner and I are not yet sure if this is our forever home
2) the roof is very oddly shaped. The house originally was rectangular and sloped down at each side of the house, but it had a significant addition in the 80s that makes it kind of d-shaped (imagine the lower loop of the "d" to be a square) but the roof still slopes down on every side.
3) much of our discretionary income is being spent on a career change for me (automotive technician to electrical engineer/computer science)
We would most likely need to remain on the grid because we both drive EVs (and a lot of miles) and all of our big power consumers (water heater, kitchen range, dryer, AC, everything exc. the gas furnace) are electric. Last year, during a particularly hot heat wave and when we were both driving 2,500mi/month in EVs (5,000 miles total) we had a month where we used like 2,800kwh lol (like 2,200 kWh of that was off peak, thankfully). It would be really nice to eliminate all of our on- and mid-peak power usage and only use power from the grid during off-peak since its like $0.05/kwh vs like $0.35/kwh on-peak. Plus, of course, it would be nice to have a more environmentally responsible power source.
I did a micro-grid design for one of my engineering classes (designed a completely off-the-grid system for a shopping center, using only PV, battery storage and generators). I thought that lithium batteries would be a no-brainer but I was shocked (heh) by the relatively small advantage that they have over properly designed lead-acid batteries. If you have a small, temperature controlled space, don't want to think about the batteries and have a LOT of money, lithium is the way to go. Otherwise, lead-acid is a much better choice. They just require some occasional care and feeding, and a lot of space.
I wish that everyone had the financial ability to do this
We dug deep and borrowed from retirement accounts to make this work.
@@TheMountainGarden Do you for see any big advancements in solar panel tech in the next 10 years? Or do you think it’s more like an intel CPU and double AA battery tech scenario where the technology has more or less plateaued within the past 10 years as we are bound by the limits of physics and atoms?
@@SilverScarletSpider It's a slow march. The cost per watt is dropping but panel efficiency hasn't moved as far, so the area the panels will occupy hasn't changes substantially. Warranties and power output after 25 years has significantly improved. IMHO, in 10 years the big changes will be cost more than anything.
@@SilverScarletSpider solar have matured. Minute changes to solar from here on out and pricing is as low as it will be today due to inflation.
Also hear to answer questions if anyone has them. I own a very large solar company with tens of thousands of installations in many states and my own home at 9500ft is completely off grid and its a sizeable home with every imaginable modern convenience and ev charging
I miss your videos.
How do you like your REC 370 panels? I'm thinking of doing a sys with either 370 or 400 panels myself . Thanks for showing your sys I also have been thinking about using 3 units but not to many sys have that set up
Lithium is already cheaper than the higher end lead acid batteries like Rolls if you calculate dollars per usable kWh
His bank is $25,000... for that you could get 83 kWh in lifepo4.. looking at the specs on the system he has, it only has a usable capacity of 67 kWh.
Yep - DIY LiFePO4 sits around 150 Euro/USD per kWh.
Lithium will definitely outlive the lead acid. More cycles as well.
Thank you for the thorough detailing of your off-grid power strategy. Living in a space constrained townhome in a dense urban setting, I decided to stick with the grid - currently, I have a roof installed 4kW system and rely on net metering. I too chose a REC panel, 10 split-cell panels rated at 400 watts apiece. As you say, if space is at a premium and you want solar, you should stick with the highest efficiency for a given price per Watt. I will note that there are more efficient panels on the market than the ones I chose, but they are a classic example of decreasing returns. Although there are efficiency gains in more expensive panels, they are slight, while price significantly increases. My question: why did you choose large inverters for your panel system, instead of microinverters? Does the answer have to do with needing DC for the battery charging?
The cost and relative loss and efficiency are better in this situation with large charge controllers vs micro-inverters. For a grid tie system micro-inverters make a great deal of sense, but in this application the off-grid setup with Enphase stuff was expensive and not really well thought out for a permanent off-grid setup. The Schneider system allows the integration of micro inverters and grid control via "grid forming" so you can mix some in this situation which is our plan this year. There will be about 5kW of micro inverter capacity added at some point.
@@TheMountainGarden Great video. Curious regarding your expansion plan. The Schneider setup can AC couple with most string inverters - you don't need microinverters per say. For example, the SMA Sunnyboy series is a 3 MPPT high voltage inverter solution - for maximum efficiency for long runs like you have. Microinverters are more expensive like you mentioned, a bit more to install, and a bit less efficient (all things considered). But they make sense if 1) you have severe shading, 2) want individual panel monitoring, 3) have a very small system you want to easily scale later, 4) have rapid shutdown requirements. I didn't get the impression that you had any of that going on, so I'm curious why you are leaning toward microinverters vs. AC coupled string inverters - or just another Schneider charge controller.
The ozone water setup - I have high levels of ferris iron 10ppm and about 6.8 ph. Do you have any idea if this will be effective with heavy iron content like I have?
the music is a bit too loud in the background.
Why flooded over sealed or AGM?
8,000 cycle lead , this will be interesting to see. Your argument for cooling making up for lead efficiency loss doesn't hold water. A tiny mini split will condition a battery/ inverter shed for next to nothing. 20 percent loss from that size lead bank would heat / cool a small house.
The loss is far from 20%. At our charge/discharge rate and depth the cycle efficiency is somewhere around 90-91% vs 99% ish for most of the lithium chemistries. However running even a minisplit to cool the pack would consume at least 1,000 watts for the bulk of the charge cycle and keep in mind that the cooling requirements and heating requirements in colder weather mean you will be running the heat pump for more than just solar producing hours. At our usage, even just running a mini split during the charging hours a lithium pack's cooling requirement just doesn't pencil out. Our next door neighbors with almost the same Surette Rolls batteries have been odd grid for 17 years on the original lead batteries, just 5 more years and they are at ~8.000 cycles.
Off topic, we have the same sunglasses except mine are blue instead of green. 😎
nice if yea get SOK batteries yea can run all off grid
That generator is capable running 3 phase power
Lead acid is cheaper...upfront. Give it a few years and that changes entirely.
Wow this system must have cost a fortune. Probably one of those inverters cost more than I invested in my entire solar power system.
Tell me more about that treehouse!
Do you have a BMS or are the batteries robust enough that they don't need to be balanced?
You don’t need a BMS with lead.
We do use a Schneider battery monitor and we equalize the batteries about 2-3 times a year depending on how the individual cell voltages look.
What part of the country are you in? Do you get a lot of sun
Future video: Why we ditched lead acid for lithium..
Not until prices come down. If you're space constrained, lithium is the way to go, if you're not, lead is way way cheaper.
I'd love to see all the technical details. However it might indeed be too dry. I'm disappointed by the number of views so far. I hope it improves, but I understand if such videos aren't worth your investment. 😔
How old is this system?
What kind of advice and pricing can you give to a home that cosume like 80kwh a day I want to go off the grid just in case we get minimum 11 hours of sun light and we live in a hot climate the Caribbean
80 is certainly high utilization, our 15k rated panel system and inverters are good for about 78 kwh at the peak of the year, so I would say, depending on when your use happens (day vs night) you'll probably want a similarly sized array (you get more light) but a bigger battery bank than us, probably 50% larger. Size the batteries for 2x daily use.
Completely impossible to answer without you calculating loads. Consumption is only part of the equation
How often/long do you fall back on the generator?
It's pretty rare. In the summer we've used it for a few hours a day for 3-4 days when the sky was blacked out with wildfire smoke, in the winter we will use it once or twice when there's a big storm and we cannot re-connect to the grid.
What about if you have snow?
In this area that's more or less a once in 30 year event
@@TheMountainGarden Good, so you don't have to care about it covering your main source of electricity. What about connecting to the grid? Too expensive? Thanks.
@@etbadaboum We still pay PG&E monthly as a backup plan, but we're 100% disconnected 11 months of the year.
@@TheMountainGarden Thanks for the answer!
"Kilowatt" has fewer syllables and is, therefore, easier to say than "KW." I'm super nitpicky BTW.
👏 p̾r̾o̾m̾o̾s̾m̾