Definitely check that every time the engine is out--good call. If done correctly, and good oil is used and the engine serviced regularly, it should last you until the next clutch... but then check it again.
Very nice video! Just thinking out loud here... You started with 11 thou and added +5 to get a final 8 thou. So the final difference was "about +3". I think I would have tried both oversize bearings just for giggles. With so much tolerance stack-up we can never know what that final outcome would be. It might well have been final 4 thou and within spec. (Anyone who has shimmed valves will tell you the shim you think you need is usually wrong, ha ha. Love your videos amigo.
It's funny how you can use the same size and get 2 different results. I think I used a micrometer to check the thickness of the bearings and actually found them to be identical. Go figure....
Your info is right on except when you pulled the oil pan you should have pulled the oil pan in the right up position. to keep any stuff / sludge from being dump in the rest of the engine once engine oil pan is off then turn the engine over.. it will surprise you the amount of stuff you'll find in the bottom of an oil pan
I had to scrap a good running 1.3 Spitty engine because the washers had chewed up the crank and block.. Using RTV sealer on gaskets is ok as long has you leave it to set before adding any fluids, never had a problem tbh...
Nice video. I guess that I may have to do my GT6+ soon. When using a torque wrench though it is best to do the torque in two steps and to not stop and start the wrench. Try to complete the torque with one full sweep.
Great point! One sweep is definitely best, but the key is to reach your torque while the bolt or nut is still turning. There is greater force to overcome when a bolt is stationary.
I have in the past lapped the back (steel side) of a new oversized thrust washer to get an optimal minimal end float. There are also custom thickness solid Bronze thrust washers available. Use caution when you torque the front and rear pan bolts, they are fine thread in an Alloy bridge piece, and it is VERY easy to strip these. Man, it bothers me that you wear that watch when working on engines ;-)
Good points. I also need to make more mentions that a torque wrench should be used wherever there is a spec. I believe the alloy bridge piece is being remade in some of the Triumph engines, and there may be stronger versions available too. As for the watch... that's my "garage watch" these days. The stainless band is already a little scratched up anyway and it cleans easily. The Hamilton with the leather band doesn't go near grease or oil if I can avoid it! It's best to leave the watch on the dresser of course, but I can't stand to not have one on unless I'm sleeping. Are you a watch guy too?
No ! While I appreciate a nice watch I tend to get obsessed with time, so if I am working on something important I do not want to be governed by the time it takes to do it right. OK, I know it is likely just me, but it has got to be, not knowing what the time is, is a luxury :-)
The thrust washer grooves face out. My car manual says 4 thousandths to 12 thousandths endplay is within permissible range. Seems like 6 thousandths would be perfect to not worry about it being a little tight.
I had to rewatch the video just to be sure, but I did set them with the grooves out. Thought I was crazy for a moment! In any case, you're correct about the clearance. 6 is perfect when the spec is 4-12.
Thank you! I used a Permatex sealant. I like it because it has the brush in the can. I know Hylomar is very popular as well. The product is probably less important than the amount you use in most cases.
Now I know what a thrust washer is- thanks for that! Question about block draining. I've had the drain plug off once in my 74 TR6, and some sand and rusty water came out. How do you, or can you, flush the block while in the car?
it's difficult to get a really good cleaning without pulling everything apart, but there are a number of coolant flush kits that might help. As for how effective those are against silt that builds up, I'm not sure. The best approach is to pull everything apart such as the water pump, core plugs, drain, etc... and clean everything out that way. That's not as easily done with the engine in the car though.
Yes, I believe they can. Just so long as the thrust washers are still in place so that nothing is damaged. If they've fallen into the oil pan it's unfortunately time to pull the crank and rebuild.
More or less, yes. The circlip is more difficult to take off without the proper tool, and the layshaft comes apart in pieces instead of being a 1-piece machined part. The bell housing also doesn't come off. Other than that, they're pretty similar.
Immediately there will be no symptoms. Too much float means there is slop in the crankshaft movement back and forth. Eventually this will mean the thrust washers will drop into the oil pan, and the crankshaft will grind itself into the engine block, destroying the crank, engine block, or both. It's much better to simply check the movement to see where it's at and if it's within spec you can ignore it for a long while.
Hi Jim, no not necessarily. It does need to be drained if you're pulling the engine as I did. When just pulling the oil pan from underneath though, you can leave the coolant alone and just drain the oil.
Should have left main bearing cap bolts in and used them to pull the bearing cap off !! Not a lever 👎damage You can check end float with bearing cap off when putting cup back on put shell locking tabs the same side I worked at the Standard Triumph 60-70-80. You did a lot of waffling !! Confusing 🇬🇧🇬🇧
You're absolutely correct, and I apologize for doing it at all, let alone leaving that in the final edit. For the life of me, I can't figure out why I would have been quite that careless. I appreciate the comment!
Unfortunately, if you're at the point of the bearing surface wearing off and the block, caps, or crankshaft being damaged... I think you're stuck taking it to a machine shop to see what can be done. They may be able to add metal and machine a new surface for you, or some other machine shop wizardry. Other than that, you could always try to pick up another block for your engine rebuild. If the end float is too high and has caused damage, it's likely there's damage elsewhere as well. Sorry for the bad news!
I haven't tried it, but the idea behind the clearance is that after everything warms up you need enough room for oil to flow between the thrust washer and the crank shaft. The oil creates a barrier and prevents metal on metal contact, so without the minimum clearance, there's a danger you'd quickly destroy the thrust washers and crankshaft. The maximum clearance then would be the opposite problem. Too much room and the oil won't be effective. This could also cause a drop in oil pressure, and if the thrust washers are worn too thin they might drop out of position altogether. Either way, staying within the specs is wise. I hope that helps! Great question!
Phenomenal video. I’m a teacher and I couldn’t have done any better myself. So many things were done right with this video. Thanks!
Thanks so much!
Another superb video. my kingdom for that garage. Thanks for your public service!
Glad you enjoyed it! I'm pretty lucky I was able to talk my wife into letting me have the garage!
Very helpful explanation. I am going to attempt with engine in my 79 midget.
You can do it! Good luck--hopefully everything is in good shape.
Thanks, very informative! Just adds ANOTHER thing to check when I pull the engine! Lol
Definitely check that every time the engine is out--good call. If done correctly, and good oil is used and the engine serviced regularly, it should last you until the next clutch... but then check it again.
Very nice video! Just thinking out loud here... You started with 11 thou and added +5 to get a final 8 thou. So the final difference was "about +3". I think I would have tried both oversize bearings just for giggles. With so much tolerance stack-up we can never know what that final outcome would be. It might well have been final 4 thou and within spec. (Anyone who has shimmed valves will tell you the shim you think you need is usually wrong, ha ha. Love your videos amigo.
It's funny how you can use the same size and get 2 different results. I think I used a micrometer to check the thickness of the bearings and actually found them to be identical. Go figure....
Your info is right on except when you pulled the oil pan you should have pulled the oil pan in the right up position. to keep any stuff / sludge from being dump in the rest of the engine once engine oil pan is off then turn the engine over.. it will surprise you the amount of stuff you'll find in the bottom of an oil pan
That's a good call. Thanks for the comment!
I had to scrap a good running 1.3 Spitty engine because the washers had chewed up the crank and block.. Using RTV sealer on gaskets is ok as long has you leave it to set before adding any fluids, never had a problem tbh...
I don't mind RTV sealer, just too many people glob it on instead of use it properly.
Very informative.Well done
Thank you!
Nice video. I guess that I may have to do my GT6+ soon. When using a torque wrench though it is best to do the torque in two steps and to not stop and start the wrench. Try to complete the torque with one full sweep.
Great point! One sweep is definitely best, but the key is to reach your torque while the bolt or nut is still turning. There is greater force to overcome when a bolt is stationary.
I have in the past lapped the back (steel side) of a new oversized thrust washer to get an optimal minimal end float. There are also custom thickness solid Bronze thrust washers available. Use caution when you torque the front and rear pan bolts, they are fine thread in an Alloy bridge piece, and it is VERY easy to strip these.
Man, it bothers me that you wear that watch when working on engines ;-)
Good points. I also need to make more mentions that a torque wrench should be used wherever there is a spec. I believe the alloy bridge piece is being remade in some of the Triumph engines, and there may be stronger versions available too.
As for the watch... that's my "garage watch" these days. The stainless band is already a little scratched up anyway and it cleans easily. The Hamilton with the leather band doesn't go near grease or oil if I can avoid it! It's best to leave the watch on the dresser of course, but I can't stand to not have one on unless I'm sleeping. Are you a watch guy too?
No ! While I appreciate a nice watch I tend to get obsessed with time, so if I am working on something important I do not want to be governed by the time it takes to do it right. OK, I know it is likely just me, but it has got to be, not knowing what the time is, is a luxury :-)
The thrust washer grooves face out. My car manual says 4 thousandths to 12 thousandths endplay is within permissible range. Seems like 6 thousandths would be perfect to not worry about it being a little tight.
I had to rewatch the video just to be sure, but I did set them with the grooves out. Thought I was crazy for a moment! In any case, you're correct about the clearance. 6 is perfect when the spec is 4-12.
Great video, very helpful. Cheers 👍
Glad it was helpful!
Nice job. What sealant did you use on the sump gasket? Thanks.
Thank you! I used a Permatex sealant. I like it because it has the brush in the can. I know Hylomar is very popular as well. The product is probably less important than the amount you use in most cases.
Great video, very helpful, thanks!
I'm happy it helped! Thank you!
very good tutorial, many thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
Now I know what a thrust washer is- thanks for that! Question about block draining. I've had the drain plug off once in my 74 TR6, and some sand and rusty water came out. How do you, or can you, flush the block while in the car?
it's difficult to get a really good cleaning without pulling everything apart, but there are a number of coolant flush kits that might help. As for how effective those are against silt that builds up, I'm not sure. The best approach is to pull everything apart such as the water pump, core plugs, drain, etc... and clean everything out that way. That's not as easily done with the engine in the car though.
Good video. Pretty sure the rear washer came out facing the wrong way, that would explain the bad wear.
Great point!
Where can I get that parts tray you use for gearbox overhaul !
I think I may have answered you in a different comment, but I think it came from here: www.jdoqocy.com/click-101203753-14053814
Great vid thanks! Can thrust washers on late model TR6 be completed with emgine in situ?
Yes, I believe they can. Just so long as the thrust washers are still in place so that nothing is damaged. If they've fallen into the oil pan it's unfortunately time to pull the crank and rebuild.
@@midwestmotoring Thank you! PO had the thrust washers replaced. I'm just sort of doing due diligence.
@@tomhughes9107 good call. It's relatively easy maintenance but crucial to keeping the engine from blowing up one day!
Just to confirm it is indeed feasible in situ, without exceptional complications. I had it done successfully on mine.
Please tell me what sort of gasket sealant you're using
If memory serves, it's a Permatex product.
Hello ,is the 6 gearbox roughly the same Rebuild wise ?
More or less, yes. The circlip is more difficult to take off without the proper tool, and the layshaft comes apart in pieces instead of being a 1-piece machined part. The bell housing also doesn't come off. Other than that, they're pretty similar.
Appreciated. Thanks.
You bet! These are kind of fun for me to make, so I'll keep them coming so long as there's time.
What are the symptoms of too much float, how would you you know without pulling the engine?
Immediately there will be no symptoms. Too much float means there is slop in the crankshaft movement back and forth. Eventually this will mean the thrust washers will drop into the oil pan, and the crankshaft will grind itself into the engine block, destroying the crank, engine block, or both. It's much better to simply check the movement to see where it's at and if it's within spec you can ignore it for a long while.
Are you saying that the coolant needs to be drained to change the thrust washers?
Hi Jim, no not necessarily. It does need to be drained if you're pulling the engine as I did. When just pulling the oil pan from underneath though, you can leave the coolant alone and just drain the oil.
Awesome
Thank you! It's been a fun thing making these videos. Now if I only had more time to edit video I could put out more!
Thanks!!
You bet!
Should have left main bearing cap bolts in and used them to pull the bearing cap off !! Not a lever 👎damage You can check end float with bearing cap off when putting cup back on put shell locking tabs the same side I worked at the Standard Triumph 60-70-80.
You did a lot of waffling !! Confusing 🇬🇧🇬🇧
You're absolutely correct, and I apologize for doing it at all, let alone leaving that in the final edit. For the life of me, I can't figure out why I would have been quite that careless. I appreciate the comment!
I have excessive float on my 1300 cc Spitfire engine and the end of the block has actually worn! How can this be resolved? Cheers.
Unfortunately, if you're at the point of the bearing surface wearing off and the block, caps, or crankshaft being damaged... I think you're stuck taking it to a machine shop to see what can be done. They may be able to add metal and machine a new surface for you, or some other machine shop wizardry. Other than that, you could always try to pick up another block for your engine rebuild. If the end float is too high and has caused damage, it's likely there's damage elsewhere as well. Sorry for the bad news!
So what would happen if you went below 4 thousands of an inch?
I haven't tried it, but the idea behind the clearance is that after everything warms up you need enough room for oil to flow between the thrust washer and the crank shaft. The oil creates a barrier and prevents metal on metal contact, so without the minimum clearance, there's a danger you'd quickly destroy the thrust washers and crankshaft. The maximum clearance then would be the opposite problem. Too much room and the oil won't be effective. This could also cause a drop in oil pressure, and if the thrust washers are worn too thin they might drop out of position altogether. Either way, staying within the specs is wise. I hope that helps! Great question!