***** Hey it's you again! And yes, I totally agree. Even if you aren't given multiple paths to traverse you should still be able to devise multiple working strategies.
Plowing through snow was so terrifying.... -ly boring. It also didn't help that there were stat boosters hidden all throughout it so there was some incentive to not just bum rush it.
Favorite map: Elincia's Gambit (FE10 P2 Endgame) Seemingly everyone loves this mission, and it's not hard to see why. It's the realization of what Fire Emblem defense maps can be when made right. It comes at a climactic part of the story, where you've just been deprived of your spy network, your security, and half of your army. Your country is in danger from a prick who just personally offended you (the player) by showing your previous chapter's labors to be nothing but a distraction, and then taking out one of your best characters, Lucia. You care about all of the characters, since almost every one of them is a holdover from FE9, a game with strong characters that you're now on a pleasant reunion with. Finally, the queen, one of the main characters from the last game, decides to get dangerous and bring out Amiti, a buffed version of the signature weapon that made her interesting in the last game. The gimmick is obvious: you're overwhelmed, surrounded on all sides, and the enemy reinforcements are strong enough and plentiful enough that trying to bum rush them like you can in most defense chapters is basically impossible, and even trying to take ground from them is a constant struggle. In addition, there's an element of hope, since you know that, if you hold out long enough, the Crimean army will reinforce you. As above, the objective is just to hold on, but there is another win condition: "killing" Ludveck. And you REALLY want to kill Ludveck. He gives good experience, he has a great weapon that your best character (Haar, obviously) could make great use of. And it also feels good to kill him. Killing Ludveck also serves as the anti-turtle incentive, and turns the fight for the main entrance into a long and messy campaign, so that you have a staging ground for stripping his defenses and setting up the KO. Plus, you definitely want the combat experience, since, the main characters you're likely to use most heavily go to your new force in Part 3. Except Elincia. Now that her stats are good, she's too busy being a head of state to use an invincible sword and a long-range healing weapon. Dammit, Elincia. All the same, the anti-turtle incentive is an incentive, not a shove. If you're not feeling up to pushing into enemy lines, you can cover your chokes and let the Ally units eat up some damage for you. It's definitely better to play offense, but no one twists your arm over it. Elincia's Gambit has 2 main chokes/zones of contention, and your units circle around to claim them after clearing the landing. In addition, your fliers can swoop down over the walls to hit-and-run to thin the ranks of the enemy. You can choose who to place where, how to support your units, and what weapons they have, pretty much right from this chapter's prep menu and base camp, so your choices are reasonable for a small-army defense mission. It's the Part 2 Epilogue, so length concerns can mostly be brushed aside, but the turn limit helps turn a complex map into a manageable time-sink. The time you'll lose on this map will be resets from character deaths. Or just hard mode bullshit if you play on hard. The map makes good use of terrain, at least by indoor map standards. There are no real tile-related stat bonuses, but there are a number of height differences you can abuse to manipulate the odds. In addition, the set-up of the ledges, breakable ledges, and choke points means that the player can conduct battle on their terms. Reinforcements are excellently used in this map. The backup units aren't ambush spawns, and the reinforcement cycles are predictable and fair. The unit compositions are such that you're incentivized to make use of height advantages on the left, whereas the center-right backup slowly rebuilds the formation of armors and lance-users you're trying to hack away at. The reinforcements make sense in story, since Ludveck's force rushed to beat the Crimean Army to Fort Alpea, and since he can only fit so many units on the stage at once, and they also come slowly enough to ensure you have time to gain ground or at least avoid being swarmed. In addition, the player's reinforcements also follow the story, and serve as a way to make a heavier push into the heart of Ludveck's formation and kill The Man with the Golden Axe. Most people who've played FE10 seem to love this chapter, in my experience, even if many people don't particularly like Radiant Dawn as a whole. My least favorite is probably Fire Emblem 3 Book 2 Chapter 3. This map is so egregious that it made me quit Fire Emblem 12 on its own. I'll revisit it eventually. Everyone who knows of this map hates it, so there isn't much to say. It's genuinely worse than the Awakening maps, which is impressive, since almost all of those are abominations. The lack of reasonable map design was the most critical flaw in Awakening overall, in my opinion, even more so than the lack of character depth and the general gameplay issues brought about by having characters with such ridiculously disparate stats. In general, I'm not really on board with anti-turtling measures for every chapter. I think that it limits people to fast-and-mobile characters, controls playstyles, and generally makes us more vulnerable to bad luck. There should be a mix of chapter pacing. Just because the best players on Serenes praise LTC runs doesn't mean that everyone should take that opinion and apply it to gameplay. "Fast and efficient" isn't the only acceptable playstyle, nor is it necessarily even the one that makes for the best game. In addition, it focuses on the "strategy" aspect of the strategy rpg genre to the exclusion of the "rpg" part; one of the major things people like about Fire Emblem is developing characters into more powerful units. Also, I'm more particularly opposed to strict anti-turtling mearues, such as a wave of super-enemies or a fast game over, being used more than sparingly. I much preferred Alfred Kamon's Midnight Sun Chapter 8 with a Death Wave of monsters that could be killed, but only with effort. With him planning to introduce a super-boss as the new Drill Sergeant, I'm a little sad. It's his game, obviously, but I liked the challenge of trying to one- or two-turn his uber wave without abusing chokes. Just some thoughts. Also I hate the tradition of sand maps and weather maps because they're always horribly done. Forcing people to bench their cavalry for a chapter is fine, but the chapters are always poorly designed and annoying for the sake of annoyance. The crapton of buried treasure is fun and all, but having to look up where to find it, which basically everyone does, along with having to trudge through movement-inhibiting sand to get it, serves no real purpose. Also maps that use unpredictable or luck-influenced traps or "bs" should either stop using them or have save points. Also you didn't mention another critical aspect of map design: information. Houses, villages, talk conversations, and event conversations are a great way to either reveal map details or story/character details. Villages serve the triple purpose of anti-turtling (if there are bandits or a time limit), information-giving, and providing items or units. See: Marauders, from FE10, for an example of how to use villages. Never mind that Marauders is a painful and stupid chapter; it had some good ideas, basically stealing the way villages worked in FE4 and substituting bonus xp for gold. Also why am I ranting so much? bye
The Protagonist every time i get to "elincia's gambit" i always send elincia to kill ludveck the first turn, because i just can't wait for more than an hour and let the 15 turns to pass... btw it's very, VERY satisfying i also like the chapter in PoR when you recruit zihark and there's also the black knight i like it a lot because you have different choices about which way to go, and if you go one way, you get some items from the houses, but on the other way you get a new character, so you want to split your army, also because some wyvern riders spawn after some turns (and then the black knight appears too)
Well said and with great context to your viewpoints. I feel in many cases unique incentives and consciously interesting map design is often overshadowed by the tried and true transfer your army "route style" to the boss with a few reinforcements on the way. Elincia's Gambit is definitely a highlight in Fire Emblem 10 Radiant Dawn for all your reasons aswell as the utilization of choke points to stifle the advance of Ludvecks retinue of soldiers to simulate a smaller force strategically defending against an onslaught of military might.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 not even Three Houses holds a candle to the handful of neigh perfect PoR and RD intricate and intelligent map designs. I particularly loved the Map that leads up to the Black Knight duel in PoR which really tests the players best units up to that point with Elincia as a highly valuable utility unit calling forth pegasus knights. I believe Tanith gets that ability in RD but I might be mistaken as I havent played these games in over 10 years.
Another point to add to this is that there is an incentive not to immediately go for Ludvek's head. The statboosters, which are very important at this point in the game because Haar is only a speedwing and energy drop away from becoming more of a monster than he already is.
Oh THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS. I'm making my own FE7 hack, but I haven't really known what *really* makes a map good or not. I've just been emulating my personal favorite maps, and using what I know from making content for other games, but this video really helped me understand what makes a good map tick.
I feel like Fates made a lot of their maps before they wrote the story, considering Corrin is often just sort of shunted around the map to get to where the next chapter will be (looking at you Kitsune village).
I personally think FE8's Chapter 14 on Eirika's mode is one of the best map designs in the series. There are so many objectives; get the chests, recruit Rennac and kill the boss. All while under the barrage of arrow coming from the corridors and the reinforcement cavaliers that can gang up on one of your units. Not to mention the Sleep staff priest at the top of the map. One of my favorite overlooked levels in Fire Emblem.
That one's easy to turtle once you get Rennac though, but I do love the hidden enemies behind the doors. Now Hamill Canyon (Chapter 13), is a fun map. Huge storm of enemies on the right, a few guys pressing you from the back, some fun ballistae to use, you have to go grab Cormag, and then PABLO. That Purge is evil!
+ThePwntagonist I agree completely, especially with your mentioning that it's Eirika mode that works better. There's a lot going on in the mission, which matches its story importance, since a lot just went down all over the continent. Jehanna fell, Grado fell, and the two most dangerous leaders of the Grado Army have finally converged on the protagonist, surrounding her on all sides. It's the only desert mission that I think actually WORKS. There's a reason to go all over the map, even ignoring the treasure, it helps motivate you not to use Phantoms, which is anti turtle (Phantoms can claim the buried treasure but can't trade items). It's also the reunion of the main characters, and the new focus on reclaiming their home and fighting the true enemy, Fomortiis. It closes the book on the plot of fighting the Grado military, and opens it on fighting the monster horde. The gameplay design also works well in a number of ways, but this is a megapost already.
@@Werelight The one thing I hate about that desert chapter is the fact that Valter never moves. He is a flier for godsakes. What kinda murderer on a dark purple wyvern just sits there waiting to get whacked by a dragon axe
My favorite map of all time is Day Breaks from FE9. It combines all the things that you mentioned. The mission brings us to the real center of conflict in the story, Serenes Forest. It was the destruction of the forest that paved the way for most of the conflicts affecting Tellius, and it's demise was fueled by racism which is a theme that has been building up to this climatic mission since the beginning of the game (an angle that FE9 handles with a great amount of class). It's divided into four long sections that are designed to test how much the player has grown with Ike's mercenaries. Thematically, it stands as a passage of adulthood for Ike as he fills his fathers shoes and earns the respect and title that comes with his growth as a character - and by extension a mercenary troupe becomes the new royal guard of Crimea. The reason for going into the forest is compelling because the asshole in charge of the enemy, Duke Oliver, is well established ahead of time in missions prior to this one. We have plenty of foreshadowing, both through the characters and dramatic irony, that he is someone to despise and keep a leash on. And the tension to move forward, and not turtle, is narratively conveyed through Oliver's sick obsession with Slavery, the games bonus exp mechanics, and the dramatic irony that we are privy to knowing that Reysen is going to attempt to sing the Galdr of destruction due to the hatred that has been building inside him up to this mission (which we are shown). It begins as a simple route mission which lures the player into a false sense of security, but then the second part begins with the discovery of a female heron. Most bosses in Fire Emblem games do not get compelling dialogue during missions apart from a few generic lines at the beginning or once they enter combat with a story important character. But Duke Oliver maintains a constant presence to either the player or Ike's group. He comes in and makes the chase interesting by offering gold to whoever can snatch his new obsession, the female heron. This changes the flow of the battle for natural reasons, creates tension in the player because you begin to wonder if you will make it in time to stop Oliver from getting to the male Heron, and creates a unique challenge. On the third phase the objective changes to getting to the end of the map which serves as an emotional change due to the tension the player should be feeling after being forced to hold up a second burden. This second heron also tests Ike's will to truly help the helpless because up to this point one could easily say that Ike is only doing all of this to gain favor for Princess Crimea rather than to do what is right. We do not know how much farther Oliver has to his goal and we want to reach him in time. We are also treated to several other perspectives both from Reysen whom reveals his own goals aside from escaping Oliver and the Hawk King who develops his own character alongside his "eyes" and "ears" (a gimmic to his character that has been well established in missions leading to this one). The final part is Oliver's last stand, and the objective is to finally kick his ass. And you will feel good about doing so. He leaves his best forces in the farthest depths of the forest. Your units are tired and you get that feeling from playing the mission because it is very long. The script before all this began implied that they had been searching for Oliver in the forest for weeks before this final chase, but they also use the mechanics of the game to tell you this as you play because your allowed to summon reinforcements every time you complete a section of it (and it takes several turns to get them to you which is a good attention to detail). The trek through the burnt forest was a testament to the will of the player and the characters within the story. By playing the mission you feel like your persevering the pain of countless generations of hate to take a step in the right direction by saving what is left of the forest, the herons. You never think it could be restored so easily, but after Duke Oliver is bested you get treated to a miracle. The Herons you saved, the people you helped when all else was already filled with hatred, brought life back into the forest. You leave the mission feeling like you have accomplished something bigger than yourself. There are very few games that can build up missions that are so wonderfully integrated with the story from both a narrative and mechanical perspective. And that is why I think it is the greatest Fire Emblem mission ever made.
As supplementary content to this video, could you pick three or four maps you like and play through them? It's a good bit of effort, but you could show something to the effect of "Here is where I'm at on turn two, now I have these choices to make..."
Mangs From listening to you rant about the characters you *don't* like, you seem to dislike characters with weak-willed, whiny, or annoying personalities. These characters are going outside and straight up murdering things, dangnabit! They should be at least vaguely assertive, reliable, and willing! They also shouldn't be Mar(t)y Stus. Everybody has flaws, including nobility. And if another character calls them out on some flaw (like when Ephraim's team *should have* called him out for letting Lyon take the Sacred Stone in Chapter 18), then all the better. People have to own up to their mistakes. Personally, I really liked Hector and Eliwood. Hector never felt like being prim and proper, so didn't want to own up to his responsibilities as a nobleman. But when Uther was sick, Hector realized he *had* to step up, or else he would doom his kingdom. Meanwhile, Eliwood's love of his father was particularly touching. He also didn't want to start a war with Laus because he couldn't bear the thought of getting so many innocent civilians caught in the action (source: FE7 Chapter 14). His kindheartedness was a good foil to Hector's brashness. I think the two characters worked quite well together and made the story even more engaging. At least, that's the impression I got from you. Feel free to correct me; I wouldn't want everyone to hate my hack because its characters actually suck.
***** I don't re-call hating on whussy characters just for the fact that they are whussy, though I've said many things in my 4-5 years of LP'ing Fire Emblem games. My reasons for hating a character is often a mix of them being terrible units and them being illogical personalities. I'd like you to give me something to work with here if you want me to respond to your statement; what characters have I hated on primarely for being "whimpy"?
Mangs What about Shon from the Last Promise? Anyway as far as I've seen you seem to dislike perfect characters and also characters that are one-dimensional.
Berukai I was looking forward to raising her to competent levels of power like I usually do with Ests not named Nino... ...And then I actually played FE6. Twice. Sadface.
There was a map in Radiant Dawn that did that, but instead, YOU were burning down the enemy camp. It also had Senators running away that you wanted to steal items from, because they were very good items.
So I thought of some ideas for maps: -Take the typical water map with appearing/disappearing tiles, and then put YOU in control of those tiles through a set of switches that a unit has to operate. You could also have enemy reinforcements attack the "control room" from another passage. -Make your goal to break a hole in a certain wall or open a certain door, or have helpful reinforcements (say, two Knights and a Bishop with Physic, or multiple mages with Bolting) show up from the other side when you do so. -In an early mission before you get a thief, have a mission where you have to protect an allied thief as he opens treasure chests. (Maiden Quest (the hack starring Sain) had this as a goal of one chapter.) -A map where a large force of fliers is approaching from around the side of the castle, and you get access to plenty of Ballistae to thin them out with. -A map where, halfway through, the green units turn on you. -A one-off map where your goal is to get a certain amount of Gold, with certain tasks on the map being opportunities to raise more Gold or acquire items, possibly while defending a point.
Oh my goodness YES! Didn't think you'd make this so soon, but I love that it's here. Pretty much agree with all the points you brought up here, I would also include something like when and where to add a new unit to the army (which you basically cover in "story" because if the story for the map makes sense the character appearing there would too).
+Weeping Dalek Not such an issue in the newer games because you are given the option to skip the whole enemy phase but are broken by level ups, dialogs, and stuff. After used to that its such a pain to wait for enemy turn in the older games lol.
I think this video would have benefitted from giving a few more good or bad examples, as well as explaining why they do or don't work for the map design.
This was a very good video! I always like Chapter 3 of FE4 as both an example of what to do and what not to do. Its opening is great as you have three different directions to go, and later you get three fronts when Claude/Tiltyu and Brigid appear. The reinforcements are meaningful and are connected to the story. However, it forces you to move your units from Augusty to Madino, to Sivail, back to Madino, and to Orgahil, which is very cumbersome.
Favorite map: Hamill Canyon from Sacred Stones- It has an amazing story surrounding it, Aias is a fun & fleshed out boss, tons of events happen on the chapter with some being built up pretty well, and it allows for many different strategies/options (Aias is known as a great strategist, so the chapter simply allows you to out-strategize him in your own personal way). It may be on a plain open field, but it's handled well enough that it's actually better from it because it gives the feeling of a huge battle.
Your advice is gold! As a newbie designer, this kind of videos are very helpful. I love Fire Emblem and its community, but I'm not _that_ into ROM hacking. I mainly watch Ragefest and LPs by other TH-cam users. However, I'm interested on making an SRPG via a free engine with lots of customization, like GM Studio, Stencyl or Construct 2. In my opinion, your advice is super helpful, no matter what medium is taken, and I want you to know that. :) Right now, I'm working with an experimental system combining other games' mechanics: Press Turn from _Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne_, CTB from _Final Fantasy X_ and some mechanics from _Fire Emblem Awakening/Fates_ sans the supports. Maybe I'll drop one day on Serene's Forest for some feedback once I have a working prototype. I would love to hear your constructive criticisms. :D Oh, another thing. I would really appreciate if someday you put the name of the songs in the description. They are _amazing_ and it saddens me not knowing where to find them. :/
Thanks for making this Mangs. (Including your previous video about what makes a great FE game) Although I lack the ability to create hacks for Fire Emblem as of now, it certainly does help me expand my horizons to perfect my current concept. A lot of your suggestions helped me come up with some new ideas so keep it up please. :)
In 9 FE games I played so far my least favorite are half of Thracia's maps - either because lack of battle preps puts your units where you don't want them to be like chapter 19 or they have spamming staff users that force you to take multiple restore staves (like most endgame chapters). My favorite is chapter 17 in Path of Radiance - not only it has multiple parts with each having different objective, but for the first time in the series you get to deploy your own reinforcements. My second favorite gimmick is in chapter 16x in New Mystery where you have to talk to Katarina 3 times in order to recruit her, but you don't want to do it too early or she might get killed by her former buddies. My favorite one is Battle of Zophia castle in Shadows of Valentia - you're not supposed to be able to kill Desaix, but you can if you focus him with your entire team. And getting that Draco Shield is really satisfying. Chapter 3 in FE3/12 isn't bad in a vacuum. The problem is the lack of rescuing and Marth being the only one able to visit villages. Otherwise it would be interesting - you could carry few units to the other side with Palla and Catria and then attack from both sides. So the map itself isn't bad, it just lacks game mechanics to support it.
this was a great video, you make very fair points and it was entertaining. personally my favorite map was takumis great Wall, I think the enemy placement diversity and skill use was the pinnacle of design. from the archers with counter to master of arms debuffing with effective weapons to takumi being truly terrifying to take on I felt like the map had me on my toes from start to finish. the music was one of the most fitting pieces I've heard and really accentuated that life or death feeling.
I’m working on a TRPG of my own similar to FE in structure (top down, grid based, etc) and this video is a huge help for me as I go over some of the levels and level ideas I have.
I have heard way too many peoples saying that a map was good, bland, or s**** without ever explaining clearly why. So thank you so much for this video! It helps a lot!
Thank you, I enjoyed your insight. Though I have no intention of making a hack, I do design games and being inspired to make them by the FE series, this gave me some interesting thoughts to bring with me when I design maps in my own games.
The issue I have with "anti-turtling" measures is they are frequently done poorly or for very stupid reasons -i.e. enemy thief spawning directly next to chest with unrecoverable item or in many of the games the AI for other (neutral) units being retarded and suicidal and really ruining any sense of wanting to keep them alive (especially in stuff like Fates' paralogues with Sophie and Siegbert where either they or the villager "allies" will rush straight to their deaths even if they are unarmed or will be instantly killed). Many of the most hated maps in FE history are things with anti-turtling things in, including stuff where it is completely up to RNG whether you will even get a chance to make it in time to affect the outcome at all (looking at you Battle Before Dawn in FE7) Still a good video though.
Lachesis' Knights from FE4 chapter 2 come to mind for me with RNG affected anti-turtling. On my playthrough, all the enemies attacked one knight, which got RNG screwed. He died before I could get my units to attack the enemies, rendering the knight band impossible to get.
I think false friends from fe7 is a great example of good unique map design, Erik literally rushes you instead of sitting on a throne. A far cry from his fe6 appearance where he... sits on the throne
My personal favourite concepts are: - Choke points (with a variety of enemies so you can't just chuck a general on the frontlines) - Divide and conquer (splitting the army) - Enemies using player strategies (turtling, holding a good location, ganging up on a unit etc.) - Super tough enemies that are not needed to kill but offer rewards (Desaix/Jedah in echoes comes to mind) - multiple factions that advance/attack eachother
same turn reinforcements can work if done right For example in one map of FE6, you have to take a city, while fighting in said city, eventually a cutscene plays where the Enemy Commander gives the signal to ambush the player with Guerilla forces hidden inside the houses. There are a shit ton of houses on said map and you have no idea which one have reinforcements, so you pretty much have one turn to get your army in the best defensive formation you can think of, which makes for some intense strategy.
I've had the idea for a map for a while. The story is you have to attack an enemy base where new recruits are being trained. You'll have to find your way inside and then deal with many low threat recruits and a few high level trainers
Thank you, Mangs, this was very useful. I've been working on an FE clone with RPG Maker VX Ace, and this is really going to be helpful in making maps. Due to the limitations of the software, it's unlikely I'll be able to do reinforcements at all (which is really disappointing), but once I finish working on the story and characters, and start on the maps, I'll be sure to use this video's advice! :D
I feel the alternate routes are very important since the games progression is all based on RNG what might work for you on 1 playthrough might not work for someone else because maybe your strategy to a map is to have a cavalier hold a fort with a Javelin but when a friend asks you how you beat it the strategy doesn't work for him because either his cavalier didn't get the XP that yours got or his got speed or defense screwed that it can't choke the point. Maybe he has to take a longer route around to a safer choke point and hold a choke point with his knight.
I've been getting really into Fire Emblem lately, and once I have enough experience I have some ideas for an FE7 hack I want to try out, and I'll definitely be coming back to hear this advice again.
I completely agree that the story should come first in map making. I think this is why I hated Fates' world map, because I had no idea where I was or what we were doing there most of the time.
Least Favourite Map: FE6 Chapter 14 and FE 7 Battle before Dawn (Chapter 28?) FE8 Chapter 6. I really don't have a particular favourite level that springs to mind. However, FE6 Chapter 13 is one I really enjoyed.
So let me guess what a good city level would be: Lots of narrow allyways for Armor Knights/Generals to block of attacks and take out enemies 1 at a time, plenty of houses to visit for free stuff, a number of shops for the player to restock, and an Arena to get Cash and XP?
Can you please revisit this and say what you think about how Fates implemented their map designs? Your criticisms seemed to be implemented in Fates :)!! Or even go more in depth with a series where you do highlights of certain good and/or bad maps from each FE game. I really love your input and analysis!
New thing I want: Option to kill or not kill enemy underlings to main bad guy for a final fight. Have their be an insentive because then the final fight would be even more grand. Imagine zephiel's wyvern lords coming in as reinforcements on all three sides of the map. Of course not the one you start on.
I'm a recent sub, and i've found that I like this channel quite a bit! I enjoy your LP's and this video was beyond interesting. It made me slightly interested in map design, but then I remembered it probably isn't as easy as it sounds. Glad to leave a comment! I heard it really helps out the channel. ;]]]]
I prefer maps that allow me to experiment with whatever I want with little to no penalty unless it's a really dumb idea. One of the most memorable maps for me was in Awakening where you battled Yen'fay. It incentivized you to rush but still rewarded caution, there were rewards via treasure chests and had a story behind it (even though the boss could have left now that his sister was in safe hands, maybe he was testing them?). My least favorite map I've played so far is Nuibaba's Abode in Gaiden/SOV. Constantly spawning enemies, the sources of which would regularly heal each other, and a boss that drops you down to 1HP regardless of Resistance. Generally, I only really notice poor map design if I'm not having fun with the game or that level. I'm also not the biggest fan of fog of war, but at least I can see where I'm going most of them time.
spiralgamer yen’fays map is awesome! In fact a lot of awakenings maps encouraged experimentation while still maintaining challenge, which is impressive.
my least favourite map is in fe gaiden, on ch 3 on celicas route where you fight the sniper wolf, a desert lvl with a fortress full of 1-3 range archers with a sniper with 1-5 range? thats just frustrating. my favourite? im torm between ch 19 of fe 3 book 1 where you are just powering through an army of dragons, it just felt too awesome, or ch 11 in fates cq where you need to plan which classes to send to each room
I liked the video a lot Mangs... I know that it is too late for replies but well here we are. I am not a hacker or anything like that but have been organizing a group at college of pen and paper fire emblem and this certainly gives me ideas for the maps. One thing that give a map some extra points for me is, maps designed for your newcomers, it more or less goes with your story section. It is nice when you get a new unit and it shines thanks to the map design, for example most of the games tend to give you maps where you are seriously outnumbered just after getting your first healer or those times when you just get your first hero/mymirdom and the map is packed with axe users or when you get your pegasus/wyvern ryders and the map has inpasable terrain. Its quite sad when the opposite thing happens, for example in fire emblem 6 (fuin no tsurugy/ the one with Roy) Its sad that you just get about 4 spear users just before a bunch of chapters in the islands where most enemies wield axes.
Mangs, if you haven't already done so, can you make the following lists? Top 10 FE bosses Top 10 FE levels Top 10 hardest FE levels Top 10 FE support conversations Just some suggestions, if you don't want to do these I don't mind.
my favorite map in a fire emblem game is chapter 4 from fire emblem awakening because it's a map that fits the way i play fire emblem: very aggressively and fast paced. my least favorite map is chapter 6 from fire emblem the sacred stones fog: check time limit: check poison: check fuck chapter 6
Mr. Krabs I like chapter 6. Very fasted paced, but not bullcrap. You can go the fast way, but you less EXP that way, where as going through the middle allows you to gain more EXP, at the cost of risking the civilians safety. I prefer to send Seth up, have Natasha/Moulder Torch the area, and then have Lute and a physical unit pick of the soldiers and cave from behind. Usually, I complete the map before the Bael even arrives.
I can't hate chapter 6 after my brother came up with the Great Gilliam Airlift to protect the citizens. ( He moved Vanessa along the bottom of the map with Gilliam in tow, and dropped him in the spider's path while Vanessa got the civilians out of there.
The desert level from Fire Emblem 12 is one of the worst... In the right top corner is a village with Minerva who you have to talk to with marth... on the other side of the map is the sieze point... In between is a mage you can recruit. All at the same time Astram a high level hero and his group of overleveled heroes are coming from behind with full movement range... Marth can only move 1 ~ 3 cells at a time with a shit ton in between the two objectives...
+Joshua Baker (The Liittle Emperor) i just placed MU there at the fort put my weapon away so i dont kill any of them i managed to win the cap barely i nearly died there i had 3x3 elixirs (zero where left) . The Cap. was just plain bullshit . My favorite cap was in Awakening before you enter the Valm Capital Throne room . It was just a epic Open field fight against Walharts troops . I was feeling like a General it that cap. the music the Units EVERYTHING DID FIT perfectly . I was however positively surprised that Walhart needed a second beating to kill him which did fit him very good.
The main thing I've never really understood about Fire Emblem is why you can't field all of your units on a map. Sure, it adds to the strategy of "Hm, do I want a Cleric or a Knight?" and it might be somewhat more annoying to have to select each of your units and move them but... Firstly, not fielding all of your army doesn't really make sense to me from a story perspective. While your units are fighting the battle, what are the benched characters doing? Twiddling their thumbs? Are they on guard duty, watching for enemy reinforcements? They're not doing a very good job if that's the case. Secondly, the enemy's brought all of their army. Usually, the enemy's brought all of the heavy hitters they have available. In the case of an army or larger brigand group, the enemy can't really field all of their units because their soldiers and commanders will be spread out over their empire. They'll have some friends back at their base, guarding it. But the travelling army/brigands that clash with yours (be it the Liberation Army or the Shepherds) have fielded all of the units they have available. At the very least, in future Fire Emblem games, it might be an interesting mechanic if you could choose to send reinforcements to a battle if it was going poorly. Perhaps that's one of the reasons behind Phoenix Mode? ... No, never mind. Phoenix Mode is just for babies. The third reason I'd love to be able to select all of my units is... it gives me more of a chance to get to know them all. Whatever your stance on the conversations themselves or the new marriage system, the support mechanic in Awakening and Fates has been made much easier than in previous Fire Emblem games. In your video, you mentioned turtling and seemed to really dislike it... but really, turtling is sometimes the only way you can get those precious supports. An example of what I mean could be a Knight and a Pegasus Knight. The Pegasus Knight can't just fly ahead and deal with the enemy Archer threatening her because the Knight would be left behind. The Knight can't get to the Archer in time, so what do you do? A possible strategy would be to bait the Archer to you using the Knight's bulk, then move the Pegasus Knight in for the kill. That's at least turtling for one turn. You didn't make any significant advance, but you didn't lose out on the bonuses gained from the support bond between the two characters. Field all of your units, however, and the Cavalier your Pegasus Knight has a support bond with can be a valuable asset to dealing with that Archer! The problem with having to select all of your units is negated at least partially by the Auto Battle command. Yes, I know. The AI is dumb. Fire Emblem is a strategy game where you should be making the decisions yourselves. But when there are no enemies to kill and the only thing for you to do is select all of your units and move them slightly closer to the boss or the next wave of enemies, Auto Battle becomes indispensable. Select it and all of your units will move towards the enemy themselves. Don't want the Auto to lead your Pegasus Knights into a horde of Archers? Not a problem. In Awakening, you can toggle the AI for specific characters to stay out of range of enemies, but still stay with the army. Or, you could select them yourselves and move them over to the chest you want to open. Just basically... I have all of these units, and I want to use them! Not just be forced to use a select number of units because they have the best stats.
That's FE4, Genealogy of the Holy War. You get to use all your available units in battle (for the most part). You have to capture enemy castles in order, and then defend them from the enemy, often stationing some units to defend them. If your main castle is seized, you get a game over. FE4 did not have supports or autobattle, but it DID have conversations in battle which could lead to receiving useful items, love points, or just more plot.
Have the villian-of-the-day try to use bad tactics for the player to exploit. Give the player a kill-enemy-leader objective and have the enemy leader attempt a charge with him in front of the pack. Maybe he sends out his weakest forces first because he is trying to earn them xp. Maybe he leaves the thrown unguarded, or his reinforcements arrive at the wrong side of the map, or he mainly uses only one weapon type, or refuses to use any weapons above iron because he is trying to save money...
I've only played the games since awakening, but I've yet to encounter a map with multiple enemy factions that actually fight against each other as well as you. The closest I've found is Revelations where it actually had three enemy factions on the map but they didn't interact with each other in the slightest, unless by chance they end up helping each other against you in by way of dual attack stance. Seemed like a missed opportunity that map
Gag1800 in sov there is a map where one boss turns against the other and helps you if you do something prior to the battle. That boss will join you if he is still alive after the fight. I wont spoil it though
I think player rewards is a feature of good maps when used right. Bosses of defence chapters should have some awesome kit be droppable like Sealen and his dragonshield in FE7 I wonder if hacks are big because they expect people to save state their way through them? I don't use them but it's a tool
I agree with you, mangs. I just hate maps that take like 3 or 4 play sessions to complete. They drag on too long and you just get bored of it. Also I would like them to use some.. new mechanics. Maybe add ice and have your units slide on it. Or maybe make an escort mission where the green guy doesn't just try to commit suicide. I think the ice thing could be VERY well implemented with dragon vein in Fates.
Now these are some good points you raised in this video though imo you forgot one point: Variety. Some hacks I saw (didn't play them because... well japanese and I like to know what the hell is going on story wise) were basically a collection of forest/city maps which were pretty similar in the basic structure, which would result in the player behaving as if (s)he was grinding. On the other hand there is also the matter of threats, i.e. ballistas lava etc, having a ballista/artillerymage-spam map once or twice is fine if done well but shouldn't be overdone. (This could also work with multiple paths where the player can choose the short but open path or a long treck through forests or similar). Though maybe that what you included in some of the points and I'm just a giant doofus who missed that. Furthermore I somewhat disagree with your opinion about ambush spawns. Once again the hacker/designer should only use it once twice at the very most and the player, like with the reinforcements, should be warned about them in a story-related way that makes sense. Example: The player is told that the enemy general is known for setting traps of all sorts and not caring about "honest" combat, he also is already dug in thus telling the player to be cautios. But that's just my opinion, not telling that you are wrong on that regard.
Mangs, remember that prison stealth chapter in PoR? I feel like you should try and get all the treasures, units, and kill the boss without alerting the guards. Seriously, that map is genius and IS really put a lot of effort to make sure you have to count the enemy movements in order to not get caught. Makes me wish they put more time into map design rather than hot spring fan service.
I want to see a map use the "Water" mechanic properly. Make it so that it has both pros and cons like a moving Sage or 1-2 range Manakete who'll get trapped on occasion so you can attack them with Bolting, Purge, Eclipse and Longbows. Don't just make it a "Hope you know what's coming" mechanic.
I want to see a map where a green unit spawns, says some dialouge like "***AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! PEOPLE IN RED UNIFORMS ARE CHASING ME! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!***" then running to the nearest town to warn the player of reinforcements
what about a chapter where you need to sneak over to a weapon store with multiple party members without getting caught and then deliver said weapons to someone to help the war effort and with each passing turn more enemies become present because dawn is approaching giving the incentive to move your ass.
Mangs, could you maybe give me a link or something that could let me start with Fire Emblem hacking or game making? I really like Fire Emblem, and I think it would be really cool if I could actually make some sort of Fire Emblem fan game or the sort.
Fun fact: Most game designers frown upon putting story before gameplay, and having the level design justify the story, rather than the other way around, because it leads to forgettable levels.
I'd say the key is to having memorable levels is to do both. But I'm pretty unusual as far as gaming is concerned because the primary reason I choose to invest my time and focus on a game is as a narrative medium, and gaming is most definitely an inherently narrative medium (look at Dark Souls which tells a narrative in the most elegant way, at least as far as video games are concerned). Every map in Dark Souls is memorable on two levels: the pure mechanical level and the postmodernist narrative it conveys. Ideally the relation between map design and narrative in a video game should be a symbiotic relationship rather than a parasitic one. It's true that justifying bad level design through narrative creates a bland, forgettable map, but justifying a poor narrative through good level design creates a tedious map. Narrative gives the level stakes, the design makes those stakes feel real and difficult. The best, most memorable maps to me are the ones that manage to have the two ideas build into each other.
In retrospect I get the feeling Fe14 was guilty of maps first story later at least for the main campaigns)Revolution is too much of a mess for that even to be the case) Even if it is almost 2 years old map design is probably one of the most important parts of a FE game.
Multiple choices are pretty important. It's a strategy game after all.
***** Hey it's you again! And yes, I totally agree. Even if you aren't given multiple paths to traverse you should still be able to devise multiple working strategies.
Perhaps. It is Fire Emblem, so I wouldn't be surprised.
Dan Shinozaki O hai
D MAS ***** So, how are you two doing?
I'm good!
Every map needs a gimmick.
Do you think the same after playing revelation?
NO STOP
Yes. Maps need a gimmick, but not a shitty one.
Plowing through snow was so terrifying.... -ly boring. It also didn't help that there were stat boosters hidden all throughout it so there was some incentive to not just bum rush it.
I feel like he should have used the word niche instead of gimmick
Tri Tran eh, not really from my play through so far.
Favorite map: Elincia's Gambit (FE10 P2 Endgame)
Seemingly everyone loves this mission, and it's not hard to see why. It's the realization of what Fire Emblem defense maps can be when made right. It comes at a climactic part of the story, where you've just been deprived of your spy network, your security, and half of your army. Your country is in danger from a prick who just personally offended you (the player) by showing your previous chapter's labors to be nothing but a distraction, and then taking out one of your best characters, Lucia. You care about all of the characters, since almost every one of them is a holdover from FE9, a game with strong characters that you're now on a pleasant reunion with. Finally, the queen, one of the main characters from the last game, decides to get dangerous and bring out Amiti, a buffed version of the signature weapon that made her interesting in the last game.
The gimmick is obvious: you're overwhelmed, surrounded on all sides, and the enemy reinforcements are strong enough and plentiful enough that trying to bum rush them like you can in most defense chapters is basically impossible, and even trying to take ground from them is a constant struggle. In addition, there's an element of hope, since you know that, if you hold out long enough, the Crimean army will reinforce you.
As above, the objective is just to hold on, but there is another win condition: "killing" Ludveck. And you REALLY want to kill Ludveck. He gives good experience, he has a great weapon that your best character (Haar, obviously) could make great use of. And it also feels good to kill him.
Killing Ludveck also serves as the anti-turtle incentive, and turns the fight for the main entrance into a long and messy campaign, so that you have a staging ground for stripping his defenses and setting up the KO. Plus, you definitely want the combat experience, since, the main characters you're likely to use most heavily go to your new force in Part 3. Except Elincia. Now that her stats are good, she's too busy being a head of state to use an invincible sword and a long-range healing weapon. Dammit, Elincia. All the same, the anti-turtle incentive is an incentive, not a shove. If you're not feeling up to pushing into enemy lines, you can cover your chokes and let the Ally units eat up some damage for you. It's definitely better to play offense, but no one twists your arm over it.
Elincia's Gambit has 2 main chokes/zones of contention, and your units circle around to claim them after clearing the landing. In addition, your fliers can swoop down over the walls to hit-and-run to thin the ranks of the enemy. You can choose who to place where, how to support your units, and what weapons they have, pretty much right from this chapter's prep menu and base camp, so your choices are reasonable for a small-army defense mission.
It's the Part 2 Epilogue, so length concerns can mostly be brushed aside, but the turn limit helps turn a complex map into a manageable time-sink. The time you'll lose on this map will be resets from character deaths. Or just hard mode bullshit if you play on hard.
The map makes good use of terrain, at least by indoor map standards. There are no real tile-related stat bonuses, but there are a number of height differences you can abuse to manipulate the odds. In addition, the set-up of the ledges, breakable ledges, and choke points means that the player can conduct battle on their terms.
Reinforcements are excellently used in this map. The backup units aren't ambush spawns, and the reinforcement cycles are predictable and fair. The unit compositions are such that you're incentivized to make use of height advantages on the left, whereas the center-right backup slowly rebuilds the formation of armors and lance-users you're trying to hack away at. The reinforcements make sense in story, since Ludveck's force rushed to beat the Crimean Army to Fort Alpea, and since he can only fit so many units on the stage at once, and they also come slowly enough to ensure you have time to gain ground or at least avoid being swarmed. In addition, the player's reinforcements also follow the story, and serve as a way to make a heavier push into the heart of Ludveck's formation and kill The Man with the Golden Axe.
Most people who've played FE10 seem to love this chapter, in my experience, even if many people don't particularly like Radiant Dawn as a whole.
My least favorite is probably Fire Emblem 3 Book 2 Chapter 3. This map is so egregious that it made me quit Fire Emblem 12 on its own. I'll revisit it eventually. Everyone who knows of this map hates it, so there isn't much to say. It's genuinely worse than the Awakening maps, which is impressive, since almost all of those are abominations. The lack of reasonable map design was the most critical flaw in Awakening overall, in my opinion, even more so than the lack of character depth and the general gameplay issues brought about by having characters with such ridiculously disparate stats.
In general, I'm not really on board with anti-turtling measures for every chapter. I think that it limits people to fast-and-mobile characters, controls playstyles, and generally makes us more vulnerable to bad luck. There should be a mix of chapter pacing. Just because the best players on Serenes praise LTC runs doesn't mean that everyone should take that opinion and apply it to gameplay. "Fast and efficient" isn't the only acceptable playstyle, nor is it necessarily even the one that makes for the best game. In addition, it focuses on the "strategy" aspect of the strategy rpg genre to the exclusion of the "rpg" part; one of the major things people like about Fire Emblem is developing characters into more powerful units.
Also, I'm more particularly opposed to strict anti-turtling mearues, such as a wave of super-enemies or a fast game over, being used more than sparingly. I much preferred Alfred Kamon's Midnight Sun Chapter 8 with a Death Wave of monsters that could be killed, but only with effort. With him planning to introduce a super-boss as the new Drill Sergeant, I'm a little sad. It's his game, obviously, but I liked the challenge of trying to one- or two-turn his uber wave without abusing chokes.
Just some thoughts.
Also I hate the tradition of sand maps and weather maps because they're always horribly done. Forcing people to bench their cavalry for a chapter is fine, but the chapters are always poorly designed and annoying for the sake of annoyance. The crapton of buried treasure is fun and all, but having to look up where to find it, which basically everyone does, along with having to trudge through movement-inhibiting sand to get it, serves no real purpose.
Also maps that use unpredictable or luck-influenced traps or "bs" should either stop using them or have save points.
Also you didn't mention another critical aspect of map design: information. Houses, villages, talk conversations, and event conversations are a great way to either reveal map details or story/character details. Villages serve the triple purpose of anti-turtling (if there are bandits or a time limit), information-giving, and providing items or units. See: Marauders, from FE10, for an example of how to use villages. Never mind that Marauders is a painful and stupid chapter; it had some good ideas, basically stealing the way villages worked in FE4 and substituting bonus xp for gold.
Also why am I ranting so much? bye
The Protagonist
every time i get to "elincia's gambit" i always send elincia to kill ludveck the first turn, because i just can't wait for more than an hour and let the 15 turns to pass...
btw it's very, VERY satisfying
i also like the chapter in PoR when you recruit zihark and there's also the black knight
i like it a lot because you have different choices about which way to go, and if you go one way, you get some items from the houses, but on the other way you get a new character, so you want to split your army, also because some wyvern riders spawn after some turns (and then the black knight appears too)
The Protagonist what a long comment
Well said and with great context to your viewpoints. I feel in many cases unique incentives and consciously interesting map design is often overshadowed by the tried and true transfer your army "route style" to the boss with a few reinforcements on the way.
Elincia's Gambit is definitely a highlight in Fire Emblem 10 Radiant Dawn for all your reasons aswell as the utilization of choke points to stifle the advance of Ludvecks retinue of soldiers to simulate a smaller force strategically defending against an onslaught of military might.
@@thelegacyofgaming2928 not even Three Houses holds a candle to the handful of neigh perfect PoR and RD intricate and intelligent map designs.
I particularly loved the Map that leads up to the Black Knight duel in PoR which really tests the players best units up to that point with Elincia as a highly valuable utility unit calling forth pegasus knights.
I believe Tanith gets that ability in RD but I might be mistaken as I havent played these games in over 10 years.
Another point to add to this is that there is an incentive not to immediately go for Ludvek's head. The statboosters, which are very important at this point in the game because Haar is only a speedwing and energy drop away from becoming more of a monster than he already is.
Oh THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS. I'm making my own FE7 hack, but I haven't really known what *really* makes a map good or not. I've just been emulating my personal favorite maps, and using what I know from making content for other games, but this video really helped me understand what makes a good map tick.
***** I'm glad!
***** Say when you are finished :D
Jordan Shank a
a
how are u doing it? like what system ect.
>Many Map designers don't know how to properly do Reinforcements *Cough* Awakening *Cough*
Also Ambush Reinforcements too *Cough* Awakening *Cough*
Let's not forget the reinforcements that spawned infinitely in chapter 7 of the Shadow Dragon remake on the DS.
Fe6 random castle spawns for 8 turns
Cough cough second to last level in fe7 where enemies spawn almost every turn until turn 35 cough cough
*cough* reinforcements in general *cough, cough* especially bullshit reinforcements *cough*
I feel like Fates made a lot of their maps before they wrote the story, considering Corrin is often just sort of shunted around the map to get to where the next chapter will be (looking at you Kitsune village).
NotAnElk Huh. I think that would explain why the story is Birthright was better than Conquest.
@@pnyhmsmx isnt conquest the better story?
Heck no. Conquest story is the dumbest of the 3 ones. Also the most boring because of that "hard" difficult (unfair I must say)
I think it was more conquest (maybe revelations haven't played it yet)
I personally think FE8's Chapter 14 on Eirika's mode is one of the best map designs in the series. There are so many objectives; get the chests, recruit Rennac and kill the boss. All while under the barrage of arrow coming from the corridors and the reinforcement cavaliers that can gang up on one of your units. Not to mention the Sleep staff priest at the top of the map. One of my favorite overlooked levels in Fire Emblem.
ThePwntagonist exactly!!! =)
That one's easy to turtle once you get Rennac though, but I do love the hidden enemies behind the doors.
Now Hamill Canyon (Chapter 13), is a fun map. Huge storm of enemies on the right, a few guys pressing you from the back, some fun ballistae to use, you have to go grab Cormag, and then PABLO. That Purge is evil!
+ThePwntagonist
I agree completely, especially with your mentioning that it's Eirika mode that works better. There's a lot going on in the mission, which matches its story importance, since a lot just went down all over the continent. Jehanna fell, Grado fell, and the two most dangerous leaders of the Grado Army have finally converged on the protagonist, surrounding her on all sides. It's the only desert mission that I think actually WORKS. There's a reason to go all over the map, even ignoring the treasure, it helps motivate you not to use Phantoms, which is anti turtle (Phantoms can claim the buried treasure but can't trade items). It's also the reunion of the main characters, and the new focus on reclaiming their home and fighting the true enemy, Fomortiis. It closes the book on the plot of fighting the Grado military, and opens it on fighting the monster horde. The gameplay design also works well in a number of ways, but this is a megapost already.
Sound like it's gonna be a nightmare for my noob-ass
@@Werelight The one thing I hate about that desert chapter is the fact that Valter never moves. He is a flier for godsakes. What kinda murderer on a dark purple wyvern just sits there waiting to get whacked by a dragon axe
My favorite map of all time is Day Breaks from FE9. It combines all the things that you mentioned. The mission brings us to the real center of conflict in the story, Serenes Forest. It was the destruction of the forest that paved the way for most of the conflicts affecting Tellius, and it's demise was fueled by racism which is a theme that has been building up to this climatic mission since the beginning of the game (an angle that FE9 handles with a great amount of class). It's divided into four long sections that are designed to test how much the player has grown with Ike's mercenaries. Thematically, it stands as a passage of adulthood for Ike as he fills his fathers shoes and earns the respect and title that comes with his growth as a character - and by extension a mercenary troupe becomes the new royal guard of Crimea. The reason for going into the forest is compelling because the asshole in charge of the enemy, Duke Oliver, is well established ahead of time in missions prior to this one. We have plenty of foreshadowing, both through the characters and dramatic irony, that he is someone to despise and keep a leash on. And the tension to move forward, and not turtle, is narratively conveyed through Oliver's sick obsession with Slavery, the games bonus exp mechanics, and the dramatic irony that we are privy to knowing that Reysen is going to attempt to sing the Galdr of destruction due to the hatred that has been building inside him up to this mission (which we are shown).
It begins as a simple route mission which lures the player into a false sense of security, but then the second part begins with the discovery of a female heron. Most bosses in Fire Emblem games do not get compelling dialogue during missions apart from a few generic lines at the beginning or once they enter combat with a story important character. But Duke Oliver maintains a constant presence to either the player or Ike's group. He comes in and makes the chase interesting by offering gold to whoever can snatch his new obsession, the female heron. This changes the flow of the battle for natural reasons, creates tension in the player because you begin to wonder if you will make it in time to stop Oliver from getting to the male Heron, and creates a unique challenge. On the third phase the objective changes to getting to the end of the map which serves as an emotional change due to the tension the player should be feeling after being forced to hold up a second burden. This second heron also tests Ike's will to truly help the helpless because up to this point one could easily say that Ike is only doing all of this to gain favor for Princess Crimea rather than to do what is right. We do not know how much farther Oliver has to his goal and we want to reach him in time. We are also treated to several other perspectives both from Reysen whom reveals his own goals aside from escaping Oliver and the Hawk King who develops his own character alongside his "eyes" and "ears" (a gimmic to his character that has been well established in missions leading to this one). The final part is Oliver's last stand, and the objective is to finally kick his ass. And you will feel good about doing so. He leaves his best forces in the farthest depths of the forest. Your units are tired and you get that feeling from playing the mission because it is very long. The script before all this began implied that they had been searching for Oliver in the forest for weeks before this final chase, but they also use the mechanics of the game to tell you this as you play because your allowed to summon reinforcements every time you complete a section of it (and it takes several turns to get them to you which is a good attention to detail). The trek through the burnt forest was a testament to the will of the player and the characters within the story. By playing the mission you feel like your persevering the pain of countless generations of hate to take a step in the right direction by saving what is left of the forest, the herons. You never think it could be restored so easily, but after Duke Oliver is bested you get treated to a miracle. The Herons you saved, the people you helped when all else was already filled with hatred, brought life back into the forest. You leave the mission feeling like you have accomplished something bigger than yourself. There are very few games that can build up missions that are so wonderfully integrated with the story from both a narrative and mechanical perspective. And that is why I think it is the greatest Fire Emblem mission ever made.
Holy shit, dude. I don't even have words, everything you said was fantastic.
What no! In my opinion daybreak sucks it’s basically just to put a promoted cav with a 1-2range weapon and watching as it destroys everything.
0:57 1. Story
2:07 2. Gimmick
3:43 3. Objective
4:54 4. Anti-Turtling Incentive
7:17 5. Multiple Paths
7:53 6. Length
8:54 7. Terrain
10:18 8. Reinforcements
As supplementary content to this video, could you pick three or four maps you like and play through them? It's a good bit of effort, but you could show something to the effect of "Here is where I'm at on turn two, now I have these choices to make..."
Great video, Mangs
How about making an analysis of what makes a good character (personality wise, story of that char, etc)?
Renoud That's a great idea!
Mangs From listening to you rant about the characters you *don't* like, you seem to dislike characters with weak-willed, whiny, or annoying personalities. These characters are going outside and straight up murdering things, dangnabit! They should be at least vaguely assertive, reliable, and willing! They also shouldn't be Mar(t)y Stus. Everybody has flaws, including nobility. And if another character calls them out on some flaw (like when Ephraim's team *should have* called him out for letting Lyon take the Sacred Stone in Chapter 18), then all the better. People have to own up to their mistakes.
Personally, I really liked Hector and Eliwood. Hector never felt like being prim and proper, so didn't want to own up to his responsibilities as a nobleman. But when Uther was sick, Hector realized he *had* to step up, or else he would doom his kingdom. Meanwhile, Eliwood's love of his father was particularly touching. He also didn't want to start a war with Laus because he couldn't bear the thought of getting so many innocent civilians caught in the action (source: FE7 Chapter 14). His kindheartedness was a good foil to Hector's brashness. I think the two characters worked quite well together and made the story even more engaging.
At least, that's the impression I got from you. Feel free to correct me; I wouldn't want everyone to hate my hack because its characters actually suck.
***** I don't re-call hating on whussy characters just for the fact that they are whussy, though I've said many things in my 4-5 years of LP'ing Fire Emblem games. My reasons for hating a character is often a mix of them being terrible units and them being illogical personalities.
I'd like you to give me something to work with here if you want me to respond to your statement; what characters have I hated on primarely for being "whimpy"?
Mangs What about Shon from the Last Promise?
Anyway as far as I've seen you seem to dislike perfect characters and also characters that are one-dimensional.
Rammer the Hammer Bwahahaha!
The Pent chapter was a surprisingly good "Anti-turtling" Chapter that also demonstrated why desert terrain can suck.
+Big Brother Xellos Pent was at least a El Fire throwing Bad ass mage.
*****
DO NOT REMIND OFF THAT UNIT
Gameplaywise she was so WEAK and not even a Est type unit but here Supports were really cool and informitive
Berukai
I was looking forward to raising her to competent levels of power like I usually do with Ests not named Nino...
...And then I actually played FE6. Twice.
Sadface.
Big Brother Xellos
i wish i could save you Brother ;_;
Someone could make a map where you are in a town and the enemy sets it on fire, then every turn the flames spread
Nicholas Coulter In Awakening There was a map like this, but it was a vulcan
Not like that like the houses caught fire abd you had to rescue all the villagers while also defeating the enemys
Nicholas Coulter That's every chapter in FE4
Well. minus the part where you are IN the town.
There was a map in Radiant Dawn that did that, but instead, YOU were burning down the enemy camp. It also had Senators running away that you wanted to steal items from, because they were very good items.
So I thought of some ideas for maps:
-Take the typical water map with appearing/disappearing tiles, and then put YOU in control of those tiles through a set of switches that a unit has to operate. You could also have enemy reinforcements attack the "control room" from another passage.
-Make your goal to break a hole in a certain wall or open a certain door, or have helpful reinforcements (say, two Knights and a Bishop with Physic, or multiple mages with Bolting) show up from the other side when you do so.
-In an early mission before you get a thief, have a mission where you have to protect an allied thief as he opens treasure chests. (Maiden Quest (the hack starring Sain) had this as a goal of one chapter.)
-A map where a large force of fliers is approaching from around the side of the castle, and you get access to plenty of Ballistae to thin them out with.
-A map where, halfway through, the green units turn on you.
-A one-off map where your goal is to get a certain amount of Gold, with certain tasks on the map being opportunities to raise more Gold or acquire items, possibly while defending a point.
Not!Gaiden
>no mention of FE5 Chapter 14
Mangs son, I am disappoint! >:c
(jk b0ss this was a good video)
Oh my goodness YES! Didn't think you'd make this so soon, but I love that it's here. Pretty much agree with all the points you brought up here, I would also include something like when and where to add a new unit to the army (which you basically cover in "story" because if the story for the map makes sense the character appearing there would too).
I'm not a huge fan of the maps that have an absurd amount of enemies (I'm looking at you FE7 Ch. 27) because ABSURDLY LONG ENEMY TURNS
+Weeping Dalek Not such an issue in the newer games because you are given the option to skip the whole enemy phase but are broken by level ups, dialogs, and stuff. After used to that its such a pain to wait for enemy turn in the older games lol.
+RexZShadow Or you can play on an emulator that allows fast forward and fast forward through the enemy turn
Weeping Dalek
Or that =P
RexZShadow Discovers this on my emulator, OH MY GOSH COG OF DESTINY MIGHT BE BEARABLE NOW
Chapter 7 of the Shadow Dragon remake on the DS has pissed ms off a lot because of those enemies that endlessly spawn in those forts.
1:49 Gaiden, looking at you.
I think this video would have benefitted from giving a few more good or bad examples, as well as explaining why they do or don't work for the map design.
This was a very good video! I always like Chapter 3 of FE4 as both an example of what to do and what not to do. Its opening is great as you have three different directions to go, and later you get three fronts when Claude/Tiltyu and Brigid appear. The reinforcements are meaningful and are connected to the story. However, it forces you to move your units from Augusty to Madino, to Sivail, back to Madino, and to Orgahil, which is very cumbersome.
3:11 i never thought id see the say where someone asks for fog of war
Favorite map: Hamill Canyon from Sacred Stones- It has an amazing story surrounding it, Aias is a fun & fleshed out boss, tons of events happen on the chapter with some being built up pretty well, and it allows for many different strategies/options (Aias is known as a great strategist, so the chapter simply allows you to out-strategize him in your own personal way). It may be on a plain open field, but it's handled well enough that it's actually better from it because it gives the feeling of a huge battle.
Your advice is gold! As a newbie designer, this kind of videos are very helpful.
I love Fire Emblem and its community, but I'm not _that_ into ROM hacking. I mainly watch Ragefest and LPs by other TH-cam users.
However, I'm interested on making an SRPG via a free engine with lots of customization, like GM Studio, Stencyl or Construct 2. In my opinion, your advice is super helpful, no matter what medium is taken, and I want you to know that. :)
Right now, I'm working with an experimental system combining other games' mechanics: Press Turn from _Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne_, CTB from _Final Fantasy X_ and some mechanics from _Fire Emblem Awakening/Fates_ sans the supports.
Maybe I'll drop one day on Serene's Forest for some feedback once I have a working prototype. I would love to hear your constructive criticisms. :D
Oh, another thing. I would really appreciate if someday you put the name of the songs in the description. They are _amazing_ and it saddens me not knowing where to find them. :/
9:05 eliwood soloing battle before dawn yup totally possible
Thanks for making this Mangs. (Including your previous video about what makes a great FE game) Although I lack the ability to create hacks for Fire Emblem as of now, it certainly does help me expand my horizons to perfect my current concept. A lot of your suggestions helped me come up with some new ideas so keep it up please. :)
In 9 FE games I played so far my least favorite are half of Thracia's maps - either because lack of battle preps puts your units where you don't want them to be like chapter 19 or they have spamming staff users that force you to take multiple restore staves (like most endgame chapters).
My favorite is chapter 17 in Path of Radiance - not only it has multiple parts with each having different objective, but for the first time in the series you get to deploy your own reinforcements.
My second favorite gimmick is in chapter 16x in New Mystery where you have to talk to Katarina 3 times in order to recruit her, but you don't want to do it too early or she might get killed by her former buddies. My favorite one is Battle of Zophia castle in Shadows of Valentia - you're not supposed to be able to kill Desaix, but you can if you focus him with your entire team. And getting that Draco Shield is really satisfying.
Chapter 3 in FE3/12 isn't bad in a vacuum. The problem is the lack of rescuing and Marth being the only one able to visit villages. Otherwise it would be interesting - you could carry few units to the other side with Palla and Catria and then attack from both sides. So the map itself isn't bad, it just lacks game mechanics to support it.
this was a great video, you make very fair points and it was entertaining.
personally my favorite map was takumis great Wall, I think the enemy placement diversity and skill use was the pinnacle of design. from the archers with counter to master of arms debuffing with effective weapons to takumi being truly terrifying to take on I felt like the map had me on my toes from start to finish. the music was one of the most fitting pieces I've heard and really accentuated that life or death feeling.
Well shit the Playlist changed the video on me while I was commenting. sorry mane
I’m working on a TRPG of my own similar to FE in structure (top down, grid based, etc) and this video is a huge help for me as I go over some of the levels and level ideas I have.
I have heard way too many peoples saying that a map was good, bland, or s**** without ever explaining clearly why. So thank you so much for this video! It helps a lot!
"The final map of FE3 book 1, a map I remember fondly."
Unless you're playing FE11, H5, and no warp staff, eh Mangs?
Thank you, I enjoyed your insight. Though I have no intention of making a hack, I do design games and being inspired to make them by the FE series, this gave me some interesting thoughts to bring with me when I design maps in my own games.
7:33 FE6 does that very well. There are many maps where the deployment slots are split into groups.
The issue I have with "anti-turtling" measures is they are frequently done poorly or for very stupid reasons -i.e. enemy thief spawning directly next to chest with unrecoverable item or in many of the games the AI for other (neutral) units being retarded and suicidal and really ruining any sense of wanting to keep them alive (especially in stuff like Fates' paralogues with Sophie and Siegbert where either they or the villager "allies" will rush straight to their deaths even if they are unarmed or will be instantly killed). Many of the most hated maps in FE history are things with anti-turtling things in, including stuff where it is completely up to RNG whether you will even get a chance to make it in time to affect the outcome at all (looking at you Battle Before Dawn in FE7)
Still a good video though.
Isn't Siegbert controllable from the start of his paralogue?
possibly, I might have been thinking of Shiro who starts as neutral and loves to attack enemies who one shot him
***** Oh yeah, he's a real ass in that way.
Ignatius's chapter is also annoying in a similar way, but at least he has the decency to stay still and not charge to his death like Shiro does
Lachesis' Knights from FE4 chapter 2 come to mind for me with RNG affected anti-turtling. On my playthrough, all the enemies attacked one knight, which got RNG screwed. He died before I could get my units to attack the enemies, rendering the knight band impossible to get.
Loved this video, I can't agree with you more. I also would love if Intelligent Systems would take notes also.
You know my favorite map gimmick. When the black knight comes out of a house and kills you ally, causing you to restart the entire chapter.
Jango Dude Chapter 11 of Path of Radiance?
Binding Blade reinforcement kinda give hint when they arrive but i still hate it because the enemies get reinforcement at same turn
I think false friends from fe7 is a great example of good unique map design, Erik literally rushes you instead of sitting on a throne. A far cry from his fe6 appearance where he... sits on the throne
Yeah this map feels just so Good
From the Story its cool and the Design is also very cool
My personal favourite concepts are:
- Choke points (with a variety of enemies so you can't just chuck a general on the frontlines)
- Divide and conquer (splitting the army)
- Enemies using player strategies (turtling, holding a good location, ganging up on a unit etc.)
- Super tough enemies that are not needed to kill but offer rewards (Desaix/Jedah in echoes comes to mind)
- multiple factions that advance/attack eachother
same turn reinforcements can work if done right
For example in one map of FE6, you have to take a city, while fighting in said city, eventually a cutscene plays where the Enemy Commander gives the signal to ambush the player with Guerilla forces hidden inside the houses.
There are a shit ton of houses on said map and you have no idea which one have reinforcements, so you pretty much have one turn to get your army in the best defensive formation you can think of, which makes for some intense strategy.
I've had the idea for a map for a while. The story is you have to attack an enemy base where new recruits are being trained. You'll have to find your way inside and then deal with many low threat recruits and a few high level trainers
Thank you, Mangs, this was very useful. I've been working on an FE clone with RPG Maker VX Ace, and this is really going to be helpful in making maps. Due to the limitations of the software, it's unlikely I'll be able to do reinforcements at all (which is really disappointing), but once I finish working on the story and characters, and start on the maps, I'll be sure to use this video's advice! :D
I feel the alternate routes are very important since the games progression is all based on RNG what might work for you on 1 playthrough might not work for someone else because maybe your strategy to a map is to have a cavalier hold a fort with a Javelin but when a friend asks you how you beat it the strategy doesn't work for him because either his cavalier didn't get the XP that yours got or his got speed or defense screwed that it can't choke the point. Maybe he has to take a longer route around to a safer choke point and hold a choke point with his knight.
This will be helpful for my project :D Thanks!
I've been getting really into Fire Emblem lately, and once I have enough experience I have some ideas for an FE7 hack I want to try out, and I'll definitely be coming back to hear this advice again.
Mangs, I want do do a hack rom of Fire Emblem Rekka No Ken. How can you help me?
I completely agree that the story should come first in map making. I think this is why I hated Fates' world map, because I had no idea where I was or what we were doing there most of the time.
Ugh, ambush reinforcements. The Mila Tree chapter still gives me nightmares.
Least Favourite Map: FE6 Chapter 14 and FE 7 Battle before Dawn (Chapter 28?) FE8 Chapter 6.
I really don't have a particular favourite level that springs to mind. However, FE6 Chapter 13 is one I really enjoyed.
So let me guess what a good city level would be: Lots of narrow allyways for Armor Knights/Generals to block of attacks and take out enemies 1 at a time, plenty of houses to visit for free stuff, a number of shops for the player to restock, and an Arena to get Cash and XP?
Thanks for the vid Mangs, planning a hack now, really helped
I SAW A GENERAL IN A FE6 SCREENSHOT EXPLAIN
Like 2008 Mekkah’s guide of fe6
Can you please revisit this and say what you think about how Fates implemented their map designs? Your criticisms seemed to be implemented in Fates :)!! Or even go more in depth with a series where you do highlights of certain good and/or bad maps from each FE game. I really love your input and analysis!
New thing I want: Option to kill or not kill enemy underlings to main bad guy for a final fight. Have their be an insentive because then the final fight would be even more grand. Imagine zephiel's wyvern lords coming in as reinforcements on all three sides of the map. Of course not the one you start on.
where is that sprite sheet?
Does anyone know how to make fire emblem awakening maps like in minute 3.49 ?
I'm a recent sub, and i've found that I like this channel quite a bit! I enjoy your LP's and this video was beyond interesting. It made me slightly interested in map design, but then I remembered it probably isn't as easy as it sounds. Glad to leave a comment! I heard it really helps out the channel. ;]]]]
ATropiusFromCanuckland Thanks :)
+Mangs Hey Mangs, I want to get into the FE hacking scene so where can I start other than serene forest?
Master Chief I'm not the person to ask I'm afraid, I am not into FE hacking.
Mangs Damn you
Why are you even talking to him through a comment made months ago?
I prefer maps that allow me to experiment with whatever I want with little to no penalty unless it's a really dumb idea.
One of the most memorable maps for me was in Awakening where you battled Yen'fay. It incentivized you to rush but still rewarded caution, there were rewards via treasure chests and had a story behind it (even though the boss could have left now that his sister was in safe hands, maybe he was testing them?).
My least favorite map I've played so far is Nuibaba's Abode in Gaiden/SOV. Constantly spawning enemies, the sources of which would regularly heal each other, and a boss that drops you down to 1HP regardless of Resistance.
Generally, I only really notice poor map design if I'm not having fun with the game or that level. I'm also not the biggest fan of fog of war, but at least I can see where I'm going most of them time.
spiralgamer yen’fays map is awesome! In fact a lot of awakenings maps encouraged experimentation while still maintaining challenge, which is impressive.
my least favourite map is in fe gaiden, on ch 3 on celicas route where you fight the sniper wolf, a desert lvl with a fortress full of 1-3 range archers with a sniper with 1-5 range? thats just frustrating. my favourite? im torm between ch 19 of fe 3 book 1 where you are just powering through an army of dragons, it just felt too awesome, or ch 11 in fates cq where you need to plan which classes to send to each room
can you make a video about how to get better and which tactics can be best to use! am still new to the series other than playing super smash brothers.
I liked the video a lot Mangs... I know that it is too late for replies but well here we are. I am not a hacker or anything like that but have been organizing a group at college of pen and paper fire emblem and this certainly gives me ideas for the maps.
One thing that give a map some extra points for me is, maps designed for your newcomers, it more or less goes with your story section. It is nice when you get a new unit and it shines thanks to the map design, for example most of the games tend to give you maps where you are seriously outnumbered just after getting your first healer or those times when you just get your first hero/mymirdom and the map is packed with axe users or when you get your pegasus/wyvern ryders and the map has inpasable terrain. Its quite sad when the opposite thing happens, for example in fire emblem 6 (fuin no tsurugy/ the one with Roy) Its sad that you just get about 4 spear users just before a bunch of chapters in the islands where most enemies wield axes.
I personally love defense maps and wish the main games had more.
Mangs, if you haven't already done so, can you make the following lists?
Top 10 FE bosses
Top 10 FE levels
Top 10 hardest FE levels
Top 10 FE support conversations
Just some suggestions, if you don't want to do these I don't mind.
my favorite map in a fire emblem game is chapter 4 from fire emblem awakening because it's a map that fits the way i play fire emblem: very aggressively and fast paced.
my least favorite map is chapter 6 from fire emblem the sacred stones
fog: check
time limit: check
poison: check
fuck chapter 6
Mr. Krabs I like chapter 6. Very fasted paced, but not bullcrap. You can go the fast way, but you less EXP that way, where as going through the middle allows you to gain more EXP, at the cost of risking the civilians safety. I prefer to send Seth up, have Natasha/Moulder Torch the area, and then have Lute and a physical unit pick of the soldiers and cave from behind. Usually, I complete the map before the Bael even arrives.
I can't hate chapter 6 after my brother came up with the Great Gilliam Airlift to protect the citizens. ( He moved Vanessa along the bottom of the map with Gilliam in tow, and dropped him in the spider's path while Vanessa got the civilians out of there.
Sounds like a good strategy, I have to use it next time!
Weeaboo Slayer oh.
REFORMED AF oh no,someone else has a different opinion
The desert level from Fire Emblem 12 is one of the worst... In the right top corner is a village with Minerva who you have to talk to with marth... on the other side of the map is the sieze point... In between is a mage you can recruit. All at the same time Astram a high level hero and his group of overleveled heroes are coming from behind with full movement range... Marth can only move 1 ~ 3 cells at a time with a shit ton in between the two objectives...
+Joshua Baker (The Liittle Emperor)
i just placed MU there at the fort put my weapon away so i dont kill any of them i managed to win the cap barely i nearly died there i had 3x3 elixirs (zero where left) .
The Cap. was just plain bullshit .
My favorite cap was in Awakening before you enter the Valm Capital Throne room .
It was just a epic Open field fight against Walharts troops .
I was feeling like a General it that cap. the music the Units EVERYTHING DID FIT perfectly .
I was however positively surprised that Walhart needed a second beating to kill him which did fit him very good.
The main thing I've never really understood about Fire Emblem is why you can't field all of your units on a map. Sure, it adds to the strategy of "Hm, do I want a Cleric or a Knight?" and it might be somewhat more annoying to have to select each of your units and move them but...
Firstly, not fielding all of your army doesn't really make sense to me from a story perspective. While your units are fighting the battle, what are the benched characters doing? Twiddling their thumbs? Are they on guard duty, watching for enemy reinforcements? They're not doing a very good job if that's the case.
Secondly, the enemy's brought all of their army. Usually, the enemy's brought all of the heavy hitters they have available. In the case of an army or larger brigand group, the enemy can't really field all of their units because their soldiers and commanders will be spread out over their empire. They'll have some friends back at their base, guarding it. But the travelling army/brigands that clash with yours (be it the Liberation Army or the Shepherds) have fielded all of the units they have available. At the very least, in future Fire Emblem games, it might be an interesting mechanic if you could choose to send reinforcements to a battle if it was going poorly. Perhaps that's one of the reasons behind Phoenix Mode? ... No, never mind. Phoenix Mode is just for babies.
The third reason I'd love to be able to select all of my units is... it gives me more of a chance to get to know them all. Whatever your stance on the conversations themselves or the new marriage system, the support mechanic in Awakening and Fates has been made much easier than in previous Fire Emblem games. In your video, you mentioned turtling and seemed to really dislike it... but really, turtling is sometimes the only way you can get those precious supports. An example of what I mean could be a Knight and a Pegasus Knight. The Pegasus Knight can't just fly ahead and deal with the enemy Archer threatening her because the Knight would be left behind. The Knight can't get to the Archer in time, so what do you do? A possible strategy would be to bait the Archer to you using the Knight's bulk, then move the Pegasus Knight in for the kill. That's at least turtling for one turn. You didn't make any significant advance, but you didn't lose out on the bonuses gained from the support bond between the two characters. Field all of your units, however, and the Cavalier your Pegasus Knight has a support bond with can be a valuable asset to dealing with that Archer!
The problem with having to select all of your units is negated at least partially by the Auto Battle command. Yes, I know. The AI is dumb. Fire Emblem is a strategy game where you should be making the decisions yourselves. But when there are no enemies to kill and the only thing for you to do is select all of your units and move them slightly closer to the boss or the next wave of enemies, Auto Battle becomes indispensable. Select it and all of your units will move towards the enemy themselves. Don't want the Auto to lead your Pegasus Knights into a horde of Archers? Not a problem. In Awakening, you can toggle the AI for specific characters to stay out of range of enemies, but still stay with the army. Or, you could select them yourselves and move them over to the chest you want to open.
Just basically... I have all of these units, and I want to use them! Not just be forced to use a select number of units because they have the best stats.
That's FE4, Genealogy of the Holy War.
You get to use all your available units in battle (for the most part).
You have to capture enemy castles in order, and then defend them from the enemy, often stationing some units to defend them. If your main castle is seized, you get a game over.
FE4 did not have supports or autobattle, but it DID have conversations in battle which could lead to receiving useful items, love points, or just more plot.
Anyone else think that Mangs is actually EvilLaughter01? The voice is so similar to me.
6:10 which map is this?
Have the villian-of-the-day try to use bad tactics for the player to exploit. Give the player a kill-enemy-leader objective and have the enemy leader attempt a charge with him in front of the pack. Maybe he sends out his weakest forces first because he is trying to earn them xp. Maybe he leaves the thrown unguarded, or his reinforcements arrive at the wrong side of the map, or he mainly uses only one weapon type, or refuses to use any weapons above iron because he is trying to save money...
I've only played the games since awakening, but I've yet to encounter a map with multiple enemy factions that actually fight against each other as well as you. The closest I've found is Revelations where it actually had three enemy factions on the map but they didn't interact with each other in the slightest, unless by chance they end up helping each other against you in by way of dual attack stance. Seemed like a missed opportunity that map
Gag1800 in sov there is a map where one boss turns against the other and helps you if you do something prior to the battle. That boss will join you if he is still alive after the fight. I wont spoil it though
I think player rewards is a feature of good maps when used right. Bosses of defence chapters should have some awesome kit be droppable like Sealen and his dragonshield in FE7
I wonder if hacks are big because they expect people to save state their way through them? I don't use them but it's a tool
Help, I've recently got into FE and all I see is 5 Year old Mangs videos in my recommended
I would love one of these for advance wars
Hey, what's the name of the remixes used?
This gave me a lot of good ideas for map design...
Too bad I can't hack...
what do you think of fates' map design because it's actually really good
I agree with you, mangs. I just hate maps that take like 3 or 4 play sessions to complete. They drag on too long and you just get bored of it. Also I would like them to use some.. new mechanics. Maybe add ice and have your units slide on it. Or maybe make an escort mission where the green guy doesn't just try to commit suicide. I think the ice thing could be VERY well implemented with dragon vein in Fates.
SugoiDude I
whats the hack at 8:00?
dylan taylor I'm not sure actually, but I've seen the map before. If anyone can remind me I'd be grateful!
I'm pretty sure it's FE Girls.
Now these are some good points you raised in this video though imo you forgot one point: Variety.
Some hacks I saw (didn't play them because... well japanese and I like to know what the hell is going on story wise) were basically a collection of forest/city maps which were pretty similar in the basic structure, which would result in the player behaving as if (s)he was grinding.
On the other hand there is also the matter of threats, i.e. ballistas lava etc, having a ballista/artillerymage-spam map once or twice is fine if done well but shouldn't be overdone. (This could also work with multiple paths where the player can choose the short but open path or a long treck through forests or similar). Though maybe that what you included in some of the points and I'm just a giant doofus who missed that.
Furthermore I somewhat disagree with your opinion about ambush spawns. Once again the hacker/designer should only use it once twice at the very most and the player, like with the reinforcements, should be warned about them in a story-related way that makes sense.
Example: The player is told that the enemy general is known for setting traps of all sorts and not caring about "honest" combat, he also is already dug in thus telling the player to be cautios.
But that's just my opinion, not telling that you are wrong on that regard.
What is the hack that had the lot of trainees and female fighters?
Okay, I've always wanted to try FE mapmaking, but how would one even go about it? Like... Where. I know on the computer, but... What program.
wait but why not FE3???
The long maps can be fun.
Hint to anyone trying to beat FE3 Book 2 Chapter 3: Move Palla EXACTLY 2 spaces to the right. 4:38 Oh, please, no...I hated those chapters.
So, tell me now, (tell me now)
And show me how, (show me how)
To understand (understand)
What makes a good map!
Mangs, remember that prison stealth chapter in PoR? I feel like you should try and get all the treasures, units, and kill the boss without alerting the guards. Seriously, that map is genius and IS really put a lot of effort to make sure you have to count the enemy movements in order to not get caught. Makes me wish they put more time into map design rather than hot spring fan service.
Luisito Palustre then you wont like fire emblem fates
Tizi Play I know
+Tizi wrong. I've heard nothing but praise for Conquest's maps. Hardest entry in the series, they're saying!
I want to see a map use the "Water" mechanic properly. Make it so that it has both pros and cons like a moving Sage or 1-2 range Manakete who'll get trapped on occasion so you can attack them with Bolting, Purge, Eclipse and Longbows. Don't just make it a "Hope you know what's coming" mechanic.
So, make the levels first, then make a map around it.
Can't you make ambush spawns when enemies are too far away from your party?
I want to see a map where a green unit spawns, says some dialouge like "***AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! PEOPLE IN RED UNIFORMS ARE CHASING ME! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!***" then running to the nearest town to warn the player of reinforcements
I love mangs
How come no Last Stand maps? :p
what about a chapter where you need to sneak over to a weapon store with multiple party members without getting caught and then deliver said weapons to someone to help the war effort and with each passing turn more enemies become present because dawn is approaching giving the incentive to move your ass.
Three words. Fog of War
Good job Mangs.
my favorite map is chapter 14 erika's story it has so many differing paths
aiden jonah That one actually sticks out as memorable to me as well.
Anyone have a good list of FE hacks and where to find them?
But what is map design? and how much does it weigh?
*Vsauce music plays*
Mangs, could you maybe give me a link or something that could let me start with Fire Emblem hacking or game making? I really like Fire Emblem, and I think it would be really cool if I could actually make some sort of Fire Emblem fan game or the sort.
Fun fact: Most game designers frown upon putting story before gameplay, and having the level design justify the story, rather than the other way around, because it leads to forgettable levels.
I'd say the key is to having memorable levels is to do both. But I'm pretty unusual as far as gaming is concerned because the primary reason I choose to invest my time and focus on a game is as a narrative medium, and gaming is most definitely an inherently narrative medium (look at Dark Souls which tells a narrative in the most elegant way, at least as far as video games are concerned). Every map in Dark Souls is memorable on two levels: the pure mechanical level and the postmodernist narrative it conveys. Ideally the relation between map design and narrative in a video game should be a symbiotic relationship rather than a parasitic one.
It's true that justifying bad level design through narrative creates a bland, forgettable map, but justifying a poor narrative through good level design creates a tedious map. Narrative gives the level stakes, the design makes those stakes feel real and difficult. The best, most memorable maps to me are the ones that manage to have the two ideas build into each other.
In retrospect I get the feeling Fe14 was guilty of maps first story later at least for the main campaigns)Revolution is too much of a mess for that even to be the case) Even if it is almost 2 years old map design is probably one of the most important parts of a FE game.