I'm 48 videos in and this is the first instance where You seemed to start losing your temper. The rest of the time You are doing incredibly intricate work where one misstep could potentially ruin everything or at least incur considerable cost, and still keep explaining everything calmly and matter-of-factly. I'm not gonna lie, it's relieving to see You are human. :) As always, mind boggling work. Thank You for sharing the process.
uramalakia we had to cancel our ferry crossing to Europe because of that leak. It took a few days to resolve so it did test my patience. I guess you learn over the years that it’s not worth getting stressed out. I’m pretty laid back most of the time 😀👍🏼
Greg, I installed garden quick release adaptors (gardena makes the presumably better ones, but there are many other brands too) in ALL the connections on my boat. I also used ordinary garden hose that is more flexible and is meant to go with these adaptors. Everybody laughed at me, but in the eighth year now nothing leaks! I also have installed Y connectors where the mains (tank water) is directed to sink and water heater. I also used those jubilee clamps in stainless steel, BUT the softer nature of the garden hose is taking the slack of your described imperfections of the design. Don’t be afraid of ordinary garden hose, the pressure in those systems will never blow the hose walls.
Yes couldn’t agree more ! I’ve really missed the way you explain all your workings. Gregg, I often speak highly of you to anyone I know with a camper van as I know they’ll get the answers they are looking for 👍
Hi Greg! This is such a great video. I'm just in the process of installing my shower, thetford cassette toilet and water system and this vid gives me confidence to avoid water leaks! I really like the trial and error method you employ to solve the leak. Also the comments section here answered my thetford toilet wiring question!
You're still the best builder on YT Greg Lol your face with that leak was priceless! Agreed Jubilee clips are rubbish for water connections. There is another type of clip that are water tight, I'm not sure what they're called but you find them inside dishwashers and washing machines. They are two rings of strong wire you have to expand to locate 👍
I like watching your videos because at some point I berate myself for being a sloppy sod. You always do a proper job, don't cut corners. See when you got the new fuel pipe clip and it was still leaking I said in my head "Yep, time for the silicone" but nope, you were back down the shops to find a proper solution.
Elly Davis for me the PTFE tape was a bodge job that just wasn’t happy with. It forced me to seek out the right fitting. The toilet should come with 12mm push fit connection. Hose connections are never very good at the best of times
Will be tackling plumbing soon. Difficulties - Errors - Problems are always the best in my opinion as it warns people like me and other builders in advance. Some good points raised thanks for sharing and enjoy your day.
Great video Greg, I don't think it was your fault what so ever, just a bad design & fitting. Now we know even you had a problems. Thank you for your honesty. Brillant problem-solving skills.
Steve Kirk it’s all a huge learning curve when you’ve never done this before. I’m happy to pass on these things so everyone else hopefully has less stress doing the same jobs 👍🏼😀
Thanks Greg. 👍 Really hoping we see the "King of self builds " back in action and back on our screens on your new budget build. Fingers 🤞 Hopefully some of these big companies will sponcer you in the process. Have you ever considered reaching out to some of them before you start building?
Yes we did exactly that when we built our first van 🚐 and was sponsored by a few companies that did help a lot. But the new build has to be on a budget so I can’t use any freebies as it won’t be fair on the overall cost 😃
Morning both, thanks for publishing this. We’re very close to installing and testing the plumbing on our Citroen Relay conversion so some brilliant pointers! Thank you!
These are really good videos Greg. Particularly as you have taken the time to consider all the appropriate, but often ignored (by many), regulations. I was looking at your pump though and wondered why, along with many, many other youtubers, you chose to mount it upside down. Traditional wisdom for similar pumps is that you mount it with the motor on top or horizontal (I note that the recent instructions for this particular pump say any orientation). The reason is that when (yes, when, rather than if) the shaft seal starts to leak, you will see the first drip somewhere below rather than it dripping through the motor (potentially for a few months) and ruining the whole pump when you could have replaced only the shaft seal for a few pence. Keep up the good work!
Great tips as usual Greg. The British weather is really hampering my Sprinter build, last weekend managed to get only one Maxxfan in and my LPG, mains and water inlets but have other Maxxfan and two side windows to fit...if it ever stopped raining. Safe travels 😃👍
When I first put cold water into my van, the blue hoses fitted really well over barbed nylon joints. When I fitted some different hose to add supply to a water heater, the newer blue hose was leaking at nylon barbs and I had to fit a load of jubilee clips. All I can determine is that not all blue hose is equal. Genuine jubilee clips too, no dodgy knock-offs.
Fitted my thetford toilet today, don't know if it's going to leak because the water hasn't been connected yet. It's so wet the only way I can get under the van is with diving tanks and there's just not enough room for me and the diving tanks and water tanks. I used the fitting recommended by Magnum Motorhomes. I believe it's the 12mm to three eighths and I have used a jubilee clip. Hopefully it's going to work. Unusual to see the best faltering sometimes, although it comes good in the end.
Lol something i never legislated for was how much time i need to pontificate over problem solving. 80% thinking and tinkering, 20% actually doing the job right lol. Thats why i cant do quirky this year ;) will be there next year all proud in my sprinter.
DIY Campervan Man that’s the whole gag behind our IT’LL ONLY TAKE HALF AN HOUR tag line. Because most tasks always take all day or a lot longer than planned 😀👍🏼😂
Great video very thorough this is the first video I have watched of yours I have seen you with John I will look back now and watch some more of your videos keep them coming. see you at a show sometime
I’ve been waiting 12 months for that episode, now I can finish the van 😂. Only joking, but this is your forte. I think you should manufacture some disasters while out on the road that you can set about fixing!!😉 Good stuff.
Thanks Greg for a great video. I am getting close to installing my Thetford cassette toilet and shower so this has been extremely useful and hopefully will help avoid too many problems. Cheers from South Australia!
Hi Luke, I found a few bits that never got aired. There may be another short video out. I enjoy doing the build videos. Feel more comfortable than doing the travel vlogs. Find that hard.
I also enjoy your build videos, but you (and Lou) and doing just fine with you travel vlog. I appreciate your straight forward, authentic approach. Lots of vloggers feel they have to be quirky characters on camera. It might be cute for awhile but eventually becomes tiresome.
Hi Greg & Lou, nice to see some footage from the build 👍🏻. A tip from me as we use our campervan as a daily driver for about 15 years now, check every screw and bolt on the tightness yearly as the vibrations of driving keeps loosening them. We've experienced that every connection comes loose every one's in a while and even blind rivets tent to come loose after a few years due to the constant vibrations. On my next build I will try to use more high tack glue as a building material as that is less susceptible to the constant vibrations of a driving van. And is will absolutely be using the same plumbing system as you did, looks a treat to me. 👌🏻 And whilst your coming back to the UK, bring some of the lovely sunny weather over here, will you? Greetings from Carlo En Mascha, the Netherlands
Funny that, I have the Same thetford toilet and the only leak I had on the van was from the toilet on the pipe with the black self tensioner connection. I ended up taking it out completely and using a washing machine water pipe. Fits better than the manufacturers .
Thank you Greg. Do you recommend using collet clips on the John Guest joints? Fuel clips And W4 15mm x 1/2" adapter. 12mm x 15mm adapter. Great tips. 👍
Collet clips would ensure they don’t come apart. If the system is kept under pressure they won’t come apart. I didn’t use them and not had any issues. Fuel clips are better than jubilee clips and if you can lose any of that type of joint the better.
Hi Greg, had the same problem. I was using the same nice shiny brass adaptors which persistantly leaked. Switching to 'cheap' plastic solved the problem. Worringly my van is full of jubillee clips, but to date no further leaks. I think the golden rule here is, if you go the flexible hose + jubilee clip route, only use plastic adaptors, never brass. Hey, Camp Quirky getting nearer, if we ever get free of these storms. . .
YES!! Rob is back!! Missed seeing your name in the comments section. That’s made my day that has. How are you keeping and hope you’ve been enjoying your van. You coming to Quirky?
@@GregVirgoe Yes all's well and we are set for Quirky. Was a close run thing since we only just managed to grab one of the last 'priceless' dog tickets. I've been following your travels across Spain with Gadget John, and would have loved to have just 'popped' across for a meet up. However, our travel plans are not so adventurous, but we shall be off for a grand tour of Scotland directly from Quirky. Over the winter, I've been added some finishing touches to the van and updated the software to make better use of the Solar panel for heating the water. I really wish I had more Solar now. Next van maybe! Would you ever consider another van build? I miss your build videos, they were so inspiring.
Flashback that’s good news and will look forward to seeing you at Quirky. we’ve been talking about doing another build but not for ourselves. I enjoy the build videos too
Just a little tip to everyone who will use jubilee clips if you put a smear of Greece around the pip even a water hose to the main radiator it helps both the hose from cracking in time and stops the jubilee clip from digging in to the hose , just a little armed forces maintenance tip . A great video Greg I wound how many other van build videos are out there who cut out the miss apps then can happen no matter how good and carful you do any part of your build , a bit like me when I got my gas tank before I ordered my gas tank which is 300 MM in diameter and 1200 long I got under the van and measured to make sure it would fit , and when it came and I fitted all the parts and got under the van to fit the tank I had no way of getting at the main cut out valve or at any of the fittings , so I had to move it to we’re I was going to cut a hole in the floor to make a box for my batteries so I had to fit the LPG tank there . Now I have to find space to fit the batteries inside my van as I have fitted my chines night heater under the floor inside a metal box under the van to keep the noise down and save space inside the van with wanting to take my two younger grand children with us now and then .
Morning Greg, obviously not where the barbed fittings are concerned, but when you have used normal 12 mm push fit connections, I didn't notice you use any pipe inserts to form and stiffen the end of the pipe before making the join. I know that they are essential for domestic use and just wondered if it was an oversight, or do you think them unnecessary in a motor home/camper van environment. Still enjoying the channel immensely and always glad to see the bell telling me that you have uploaded a new one. My wife commented the other day that if anybody asks me who did the conversion on our van, I am going to have to say "me and Greg". Safe travels.
Hello Greg! I have a water system like yours with a Shurflo pressure pump. I would like to ask you how you managed the electrical connection of thetford toilet? Mine is a C403 (w/4 pole connector) and from what I understand the flush works with a micro-switch that starts the pump. But with the pressure pump how do you get around this problem, as normally you just have to open the tap to start it? Thanks, Alex
Yours is a slightly newer model than mine but I’m sure you only need to connect a 12v supply to the red and black wires. Do nothing with the grey and purple. That relay would be used to switch on a pump if you didn’t have a pressured water system. Hope that helps 👍🏼😊
Greg, I’ve been watching all of your videos after someone mentioned you on a Campervan forum. I have to say, I’ve watched thousands of videos from people doing builds and your’s are by far the most informative. I’ll be starting my VW Crafter LWB build when this virus mess dies down, with your videos close by for help lol. I’m thinking of putting a pop top roof in too, which should be interesting as it doesn’t seem to be done much. I’d be interested to see you build a new van to watch how things would change compared to this build, thanks for everything.
Do you fancy trialling the pop top roof design that is predominately for the Transporters and smaller vans, so I can then see how it goes? Lol I’ll put a video up if I beat you to it!! Take care pal.
Greg would you believe I used exactly the same shower as you and completed my shower build around October. I also have the same thetford and the flush connector as you. I had no leaks and put 2 jubilee clips over the 12mm inside 15mm hose (no leaks). However, I think this will be retro fitted the same way you have done it. Totally agree that Thetford need to change the flush hose on the toilets. I too had a leak but it was self inflicted. I manged to screw into one of the copper pipes out of the back of my shower fitting my 5 mm ply. I ended up extending the shower wall inspection panel to check for leaks or do any maintenance in future. I had to strip out my batteries and a lot of my electric to repair my own error. Building the Van has proved to be intensive. Having to engineer and problem solve through out the build has bee a massive learning curve. This year we really launching to using of the van and we hope corona virus does not impact travel plans. 20 Months of weekend and evening work and just cannot wait to start the user journey. Thanks for sharing the footage for toilet and shower connections.
Tracey Hart it will be so worth it when you get the total freedom of travel. It’s so easy to find free parking places over here and free services too. Makes travelling long term very reasonable. Have fun 😀
Hi Greg - I’m still plodding along (slowly!!) with my Sprinter conv, and can’t tell you how much your vids are helping . 2 quick Q’s if I may? When feeding the Truma ducting from the living area to the garage - did you find it tight squeeze coming through the furniture board / wheel arch area? Or are my measurements out? 🤣 And secondly I see your bulkhead between living area and garage is lined with ply on the garage side. What was the reason for this? Is this something I need to do? Thanks as always for your time.
What a nightmare Greg. Water can cause so much damage. I run my pump when I need too and try not to leave pressure in the system when I'm not using it in case it strings a leak. Glad you eventually got it sorted before you ended up wit a delamination nightmare.
pa maj I can see your train of thought there. JG fittings rely on pressure to keep the locking ring pushed out. Unless you have the c clips installed it’s best not to take pressure away from the joints in case they work loose.
Hi greg I watch your upload alot as i am looking to convert ford transit of mine living in ireland and have one question in regards to plumbing why not use 15mm qualplex or acorn pipie to plumb as it is so easy to get fitting for near me or am i missing something in regards to connecting to pumps? Thanks ali draper
Great vid mate, its good to see and show the issues found along the way. This always shows not everything is a walk in the park building vans and gets your grey matter working for solutions. keep up the great vids and your great journey you are both having.
Hi building my own conversion. inspired by your videos. I have the same setup water tank plumbed in but the wiring is so confusing. I am using the sureflow pump onboard. do you have your wiring diagram you used. Please
I have prepared some really useful videos on the wiring of our van. The build videos are all arranged into one playlist from start to finish. Here is the wiring one th-cam.com/video/rVkDPzrA-zw/w-d-xo.html
Hi Greg, I noticed a seal around the bottom of the doors, like a brown rubber, I didn't see those on the shower build videos, did you add them to keep smells in?
@@GregVirgoe cool!! and thanks for you fast answer as always. it's really cool to see also where you put the door magnets. Great videos and stay safe! :)
There are two lives and one negative on your toilet which both need to be linked at the connector block if you have the same toilet as us with a solenoid valve and push button and a pressurised water system.
@@GregVirgoe Hi Greg - any chance of picking your brains on wiring the Thetford CS200 toilet? Mine has 4 connections at the toilet - Brown, Blue, Black, Black/White. I’m guessing the 12v live to Brown, -ve to Blue, but 2nd live? To Black or Black/White? Any tips gratefully received! Will
Hi Greg ,yes that brass barb fitting definitely looks to small for the blue flexible hose ,it should be pretty snug when pushing the pipe over the barb ,if the barbs are correct ie 12mm od they should be fine ,I use stainless jubilee on many and not had any leaks 👍
Hi Greg, looking at your plumbing and was wondering if you have any video on how you completed the plumbing under the van ? like connecting the waste tank to shower and sink and what U bends you inserted along the line ? Regard's Bernard
Could the problem have been exacerbated by the Thetford toilet requiring a maximum pressure from the pump of 0.7 Bar, I think your pump is 2 Bar. I'm looking at buying a toilet at the moment and wondering now whether to go for the one with a flush tank to prevent this issue as I would think it would be harmful to the pump to restrict its pressure output with a flow reducer. How's your fix holding up?
Hi Greg, I hope you are both well and staying safe, hopefully we will soon be coming out the other side of this horrendous situation and able to get back to the things we love. in the meantime a quick observation/question. It was a nice idea to keep the shower joints in the garage for ease of access, did that also enable you to do away with stud walls thus gaining more space in your layout plan?
MACmillanish the 2x2 stud wall that I built first for the bed partition is still there it has furniture board on the living side and 9mm ply on the garage side. It’s one of the few structural parts of the build that lot of other thing fix to. I also built two stud walls similar down either side of the garage to run all my cables in these are also finished with 9mm plywood. I only lost 2” of space around the garage area which is nothing to worry about. Hope that helps
hi greg,i have enjoyed your videos ,top skills ,and they have been a big help in my sprinter conversion,,i totally agree,those thetford connections are poor.being a plumber it got on my nerves and I figured it out the same as you,,.bye the way,where did you source the drinking water tap,i think you said it was from the states.
Problem solving at its very best. Keep calm, try one thing at at time! Great vid Greg! A question if I may? At 06:31 when you switch the pump on to test the system, you don’t appear to use the isolating switch thats directly above the pump, is there another switch just out of shot? I’m just trying to make sure I don’t forget anything!! Thanks mate!
@@GregVirgoe thanks Greg- that makes a lot of sense. Can I just ask one other? In one of your kitchen build videos I noticed a grey cable emerging out of the ply lining under the kitchen worktop? Don’t suppose you could tell me what that was for? It looked like a house 3 core cable? Thanks as always.
@@willparry6547 it’s a 7core 1.5mm cable that is for the level gauges on the water tanks. It runs from the high level cupboard down inside the wall to low level then out through the floor to the water tanks level probes. It was a multi core flex control cable. 👍🏼😃
Hi Greg and Lou, really enjoying your channel. Question on internet/data access. We're shortly off to France for 9 months and am aware most providers stop your data after 60 days. I've tried to research how we can deal with this limitation and anted to compare how you deal with it. We can send the sim back to family in UK to re set the 60 days and for them to return to site in France. Or but a Tourist sim deal in France...... A little expensive Or but a sim from a company in France called "Free". They have brances in most main towns but also in many tabacs and Presse outlets. Be great to hear what you guys think Ray...Cheers
Hello again Greg would I be ok sealing around my shower build with Sikaflex 512 as its all I have at the moment and don't fancy queuing at B&Q for hours thanks again for any help
Hi Greg. I have bought a c223cs Thetford toilet and it has arrived without a wiring loom. Thetford do not list the loom and their agents don't know how to get one!! I have seen an American video where a guy ignores the purple and grey remote pump relay wires and connects to his pressurised system after fitting a pressure reducer, does this make any sense? Any advice you could offer would be gratefully received. Thetford are a dead loss.. Tanks again for your videos which I have used extensively. Cheers Si
With the fuel clip why did you not attach it at the very bottom of the pipe? You attached a few cm up from the bottom...Pleased that you fixed it, but l was confident that you would 😊
Hi Greg, question about pipe sizes. You mention going from a domestic shower connection size of 15mm down to the van’s internal plumbing size of 12mm... Did you purposefully use 12mm plumbing in the van for a particular reason? I ask because when doing a conversion, especially with domestic taps and showers, AND pipes and adaptors, being cheaper than caravan/camper equivalents etc., that it might be better just to go for 15mm pipe all round. Your thoughts?
Miles Fryer yes I did purposefully use 12mm LDPE and push fit fittings as it’s the standard size for motorhomes and campervans. All the boiler connections were 12mm push fit as were the drain valve etc. It does not need to be 15mm, flow rate and pressure are really good and I do not recommend installing 15mm copper or domestic fittings as there’s no flexibility in that type of installation. It can be brought cheaply online.
@@GregVirgoe Thank you Greg, I guess it is a choice of having everything house domestic or "caravan/van" dimensions. Thanks for taking the time to answer. :)
I think the giveaway was that you were able to remove the barb fitting without damaging the hose which implies the fitting was too small for the hose so it had no bite.
Hi Greg, I've recently discovered your channel ..... absolutely Fantastic , full of loads of advice and top tips thank you. What's your trade joiner/ chippy ? Lovely work shop. ATB Discovery Dave
Hi Dave no it wasn’t. I’m a mechanical services design engineer and project manager. Never had a job on the tools. Watched loads of New Yankee Workshop. Norm was my inspiration for starting doing woodwork. Started with simple jewellery boxes then progressed to tables and furniture. Fitted kitchens, built the workshop from scratch and now the van. Thanks for joining the channel hope you find all the videos interesting 🧐
vinny w mine is on all the time. It works on its own in built pressure switch and if not using water it will stay turned off and automatically come on when you need it to. 😀
My OCD is making me twitch like Inspector Dreyfus in Pink panther with that grub screw.. Why didn't they design it to fit in the BOTTOM of the mixer unit so it would be both out of view AND be accessible with the allen key ARRGHH :D. Stuff like that really does my nut in. :D
This is the very reason I have not connected the toilet to the water system. It is a very poor design as you say. I will use the shower head to flush the bowl as and when required. Get yer finger out Thetford !!
Hi Greg Sorry to say the hose clips your using are not jubilee clips . They are just called hose clips . Jubilee is a brand name . And we use to make the clips for them many years ago. I have worked for a Company that make hose clips for over forty five years here in Suffolk, our brand name is Hi Grip and Hi Torque . Our clips are probably one of the most well respected brands in the world. And we export all over the world including Japan . And yes they preform well beyond the British standard . Soon as I see the clips you were using I thought yip they are rubbish. Glad you got the leak sorted . But if had used one of our clips you wouldn't have had any problems. As we pressure test our clip of that size to 200 psi with no leaks permitted .
I've used these before now on my old car cooling system and even when fitting a s/s exhaust instead of the usual U-clamps as they're really strong. They come in a range from cheapest mild steel/plated (W1) to full A4 S/steel with A4 bolt (W5). Very handy as you can easily swap them out without having to remove a hose and they don't have any holes, lumps and bumps like the ordinary Jubillees you showed us, plus bevelled edges so they don't cut into the hose. Whilst that wouldn't have solved the wrong-sized barb problem, they're still worth knowing about for future projects. Get them through suppliers on eBay etc. th-cam.com/video/dK7LDkK_zO4/w-d-xo.html
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We will be watching vids in years to come entitled 'Greg Virgoe, the lost tapes' LOL. Great info, this will save people a lot of grief. Nice job Greg.
Mange 2 that made us both chuckle mate. I was going to title it. “Unseen footage” never aired before 😂🤣😀
'Greg Virgoe, the lost tapes' love that one!
I'm 48 videos in and this is the first instance where You seemed to start losing your temper. The rest of the time You are doing incredibly intricate work where one misstep could potentially ruin everything or at least incur considerable cost, and still keep explaining everything calmly and matter-of-factly. I'm not gonna lie, it's relieving to see You are human. :) As always, mind boggling work. Thank You for sharing the process.
uramalakia we had to cancel our ferry crossing to Europe because of that leak. It took a few days to resolve so it did test my patience. I guess you learn over the years that it’s not worth getting stressed out. I’m pretty laid back most of the time 😀👍🏼
Greg, I installed garden quick release adaptors (gardena makes the presumably better ones, but there are many other brands too) in ALL the connections on my boat. I also used ordinary garden hose that is more flexible and is meant to go with these adaptors. Everybody laughed at me, but in the eighth year now nothing leaks! I also have installed Y connectors where the mains (tank water) is directed to sink and water heater. I also used those jubilee clamps in stainless steel, BUT the softer nature of the garden hose is taking the slack of your described imperfections of the design. Don’t be afraid of ordinary garden hose, the pressure in those systems will never blow the hose walls.
Yannis Tsakiris I’m sure there are many other people that will say they never had a problem. 😀
Yes couldn’t agree more ! I’ve really missed the way you explain all your workings.
Gregg, I often speak highly of you to anyone I know with a camper van as I know they’ll get the answers they are looking for 👍
Hi Greg! This is such a great video. I'm just in the process of installing my shower, thetford cassette toilet and water system and this vid gives me confidence to avoid water leaks! I really like the trial and error method you employ to solve the leak. Also the comments section here answered my thetford toilet wiring question!
Yes the lack of adequate wiring information on their toilets is really poor. Everybody who fits them struggles to find right information
🤣🤣 13.45 - "GO ON SON!" Keep up the great content 👍
bez22 😂😂 odd things I come out with at times 👍🏼
You're still the best builder on YT Greg Lol your face with that leak was priceless!
Agreed Jubilee clips are rubbish for water connections.
There is another type of clip that are water tight, I'm not sure what they're called but you find them inside dishwashers and washing machines.
They are two rings of strong wire you have to expand to locate 👍
I like watching your videos because at some point I berate myself for being a sloppy sod. You always do a proper job, don't cut corners. See when you got the new fuel pipe clip and it was still leaking I said in my head "Yep, time for the silicone" but nope, you were back down the shops to find a proper solution.
Elly Davis for me the PTFE tape was a bodge job that just wasn’t happy with. It forced me to seek out the right fitting. The toilet should come with 12mm push fit connection. Hose connections are never very good at the best of times
Will be tackling plumbing soon. Difficulties - Errors - Problems are always the best in my opinion as it warns people like me and other builders in advance. Some good points raised thanks for sharing and enjoy your day.
Gordon Peel my lesson learned may just make it easier for the next person
Great video Greg, I don't think it was your fault what so ever, just a bad design & fitting. Now we know even you had a problems. Thank you for your honesty. Brillant problem-solving skills.
Steve Kirk it’s all a huge learning curve when you’ve never done this before. I’m happy to pass on these things so everyone else hopefully has less stress doing the same jobs 👍🏼😀
Thanks Greg. 👍
Really hoping we see the "King of self builds " back in action and back on our screens on your new budget build. Fingers 🤞
Hopefully some of these big companies will sponcer you in the process.
Have you ever considered reaching out to some of them before you start building?
Yes we did exactly that when we built our first van 🚐 and was sponsored by a few companies that did help a lot. But the new build has to be on a budget so I can’t use any freebies as it won’t be fair on the overall cost 😃
It's imperative that you always make a decent connection to the toilet 😄
Great vid as per usual Greg
James Kenny absolutely 👍🏼😃
Morning both, thanks for publishing this. We’re very close to installing and testing the plumbing on our Citroen Relay conversion so some brilliant pointers! Thank you!
Offbeat Off Path best of luck and hope all goes well for you 👍🏼😊
These are really good videos Greg. Particularly as you have taken the time to consider all the appropriate, but often ignored (by many), regulations. I was looking at your pump though and wondered why, along with many, many other youtubers, you chose to mount it upside down. Traditional wisdom for similar pumps is that you mount it with the motor on top or horizontal (I note that the recent instructions for this particular pump say any orientation). The reason is that when (yes, when, rather than if) the shaft seal starts to leak, you will see the first drip somewhere below rather than it dripping through the motor (potentially for a few months) and ruining the whole pump when you could have replaced only the shaft seal for a few pence. Keep up the good work!
If I fitted it up the other way the water flow would be in the wrong direction. 🥴
Its always interesting how you approach & solve these problems - glad you sorted it out in the end
My uncle always says
“Plumbing’s alright till you put water in it”
🤣
That’s very true. Water will get into the tiny of places.
Great tips as usual Greg. The British weather is really hampering my Sprinter build, last weekend managed to get only one Maxxfan in and my LPG, mains and water inlets but have other Maxxfan and two side windows to fit...if it ever stopped raining.
Safe travels 😃👍
Simon Middleton I’ve heard it’s been really bad. Not looking forward to that as we have been so lucky with sunshine on the south coast.
I was praying for you'll when the leek started. Glad you were able to fix it. Thanks be blessed
Interesting - you always learn much more when things go wrong!
It would be handy if they provided a more suitable connection 👍🏼😊
When I first put cold water into my van, the blue hoses fitted really well over barbed nylon joints. When I fitted some different hose to add supply to a water heater, the newer blue hose was leaking at nylon barbs and I had to fit a load of jubilee clips. All I can determine is that not all blue hose is equal. Genuine jubilee clips too, no dodgy knock-offs.
Fitted my thetford toilet today, don't know if it's going to leak because the water hasn't been connected yet. It's so wet the only way I can get under the van is with diving tanks and there's just not enough room for me and the diving tanks and water tanks. I used the fitting recommended by Magnum Motorhomes. I believe it's the 12mm to three eighths and I have used a jubilee clip. Hopefully it's going to work. Unusual to see the best faltering sometimes, although it comes good in the end.
Lol something i never legislated for was how much time i need to pontificate over problem solving. 80% thinking and tinkering, 20% actually doing the job right lol. Thats why i cant do quirky this year ;) will be there next year all proud in my sprinter.
DIY Campervan Man that’s the whole gag behind our IT’LL ONLY TAKE HALF AN HOUR tag line. Because most tasks always take all day or a lot longer than planned 😀👍🏼😂
Great video very thorough this is the first video I have watched of yours I have seen you with John I will look back now and watch some more of your videos keep them coming. see you at a show sometime
Steve Barber there are over 60 build videos and technical videos like this with loads of very useful information. Thanks for joining us 👍🏼😀
I’ve been waiting 12 months for that episode, now I can finish the van 😂. Only joking, but this is your forte. I think you should manufacture some disasters while out on the road that you can set about fixing!!😉 Good stuff.
Thanks Greg for a great video. I am getting close to installing my Thetford cassette toilet and shower so this has been extremely useful and hopefully will help avoid too many problems. Cheers from South Australia!
Pete Hammond it I can pass on just one little gem it’s worth while. Thanks for watching 👍🏼😊 best wishes
This makes me miss the virgoe build series. :)
Hi Luke, I found a few bits that never got aired. There may be another short video out. I enjoy doing the build videos. Feel more comfortable than doing the travel vlogs. Find that hard.
@@GregVirgoe well I look forward to more build vids. Hope your still having fun in the sunshine :)
Maybe you could do build videos on someone else's van. Hint hint 😜
I also enjoy your build videos, but you (and Lou) and doing just fine with you travel vlog. I appreciate your straight forward, authentic approach. Lots of vloggers feel they have to be quirky characters on camera. It might be cute for awhile but eventually becomes tiresome.
Chris Coulthard I’ve actually been thinking about that 😊
Hi Greg & Lou, nice to see some footage from the build 👍🏻.
A tip from me as we use our campervan as a daily driver for about 15 years now, check every screw and bolt on the tightness yearly as the vibrations of driving keeps loosening them.
We've experienced that every connection comes loose every one's in a while and even blind rivets tent to come loose after a few years due to the constant vibrations.
On my next build I will try to use more high tack glue as a building material as that is less susceptible to the constant vibrations of a driving van.
And is will absolutely be using the same plumbing system as you did, looks a treat to me. 👌🏻
And whilst your coming back to the UK, bring some of the lovely sunny weather over here, will you?
Greetings from Carlo En Mascha, the Netherlands
Carlo Knüwer thank you for that tip. The van does get shaken a lot on these old cobble streets. 🥴
Very nice work Greg, very nice!!! 👍👍👍👍
Thank you 🙏🏼
Funny that, I have the Same thetford toilet and the only leak I had on the van was from the toilet on the pipe with the black self tensioner connection. I ended up taking it out completely and using a washing machine water pipe.
Fits better than the manufacturers .
Lee Clarke sorry you’re had similar issues. Glad you got it sorted too 👍🏼😀
About to connect mine, brilliant timing for me anyway, thanks for releasing the video.
Thank you Greg.
Do you recommend using collet clips on the John Guest joints?
Fuel clips
And
W4 15mm x 1/2" adapter.
12mm x 15mm adapter.
Great tips.
👍
Collet clips would ensure they don’t come apart. If the system is kept under pressure they won’t come apart. I didn’t use them and not had any issues. Fuel clips are better than jubilee clips and if you can lose any of that type of joint the better.
Hi Greg, had the same problem. I was using the same nice shiny brass adaptors which persistantly leaked. Switching to 'cheap' plastic solved the problem. Worringly my van is full of jubillee clips, but to date no further leaks. I think the golden rule here is, if you go the flexible hose + jubilee clip route, only use plastic adaptors, never brass. Hey, Camp Quirky getting nearer, if we ever get free of these storms. . .
YES!! Rob is back!! Missed seeing your name in the comments section. That’s made my day that has. How are you keeping and hope you’ve been enjoying your van. You coming to Quirky?
@@GregVirgoe Yes all's well and we are set for Quirky. Was a close run thing since we only just managed to grab one of the last 'priceless' dog tickets. I've been following your travels across Spain with Gadget John, and would have loved to have just 'popped' across for a meet up. However, our travel plans are not so adventurous, but we shall be off for a grand tour of Scotland directly from Quirky.
Over the winter, I've been added some finishing touches to the van and updated the software to make better use of the Solar panel for heating the water. I really wish I had more Solar now. Next van maybe! Would you ever consider another van build? I miss your build videos, they were so inspiring.
Flashback that’s good news and will look forward to seeing you at Quirky.
we’ve been talking about doing another build but not for ourselves.
I enjoy the build videos too
Virgoe the lost TAPES 🤣 . This should give you a few more miles 😉😉
I took thousands of hours of footage when building and quite a bit didn’t make the cut so there could be a follow up series. 👍🏼😂
Like I said more miles 🤣🤣🤣
Good solution mate. You got it done!!
Unstoppable Tramp been good ever since 👍🏼
Just a little tip to everyone who will use jubilee clips if you put a smear of Greece around the pip even a water hose to the main radiator it helps both the hose from cracking in time and stops the jubilee clip from digging in to the hose , just a little armed forces maintenance tip . A great video Greg I wound how many other van build videos are out there who cut out the miss apps then can happen no matter how good and carful you do any part of your build , a bit like me when I got my gas tank before I ordered my gas tank which is 300 MM in diameter and 1200 long I got under the van and measured to make sure it would fit , and when it came and I fitted all the parts and got under the van to fit the tank I had no way of getting at the main cut out valve or at any of the fittings , so I had to move it to we’re I was going to cut a hole in the floor to make a box for my batteries so I had to fit the LPG tank there . Now I have to find space to fit the batteries inside my van as I have fitted my chines night heater under the floor inside a metal box under the van to keep the noise down and save space inside the van with wanting to take my two younger grand children with us now and then .
Morning Greg, obviously not where the barbed fittings are concerned, but when you have used normal 12 mm push fit connections, I didn't notice you use any pipe inserts to form and stiffen the end of the pipe before making the join. I know that they are essential for domestic use and just wondered if it was an oversight, or do you think them unnecessary in a motor home/camper van environment.
Still enjoying the channel immensely and always glad to see the bell telling me that you have uploaded a new one. My wife commented the other day that if anybody asks me who did the conversion on our van, I am going to have to say "me and Greg". Safe travels.
Great video, W4 are just a few miles up the road from me and they have a fantastic range of products , highly recommended. 👍
Project Camper they are very handy for a whole range of accessories 👍🏼😊
I’m using the same board but in its bare state because I’m painting mine, I left an off cut in water over night and it swell at all 👍🏼
Morning Greg & Lou ☕😊
Kat cankan good morning cat. A little rain here today in northern Portugal 😊
@@GregVirgoe Very windy & cold in London this morning. Stay dry, warm & cosy ☕😊
Hello Greg!
I have a water system like yours with a Shurflo pressure pump. I would like to ask you how you managed the electrical connection of thetford toilet? Mine is a C403 (w/4 pole connector) and from what I understand the flush works with a micro-switch that starts the pump. But with the pressure pump how do you get around this problem, as normally you just have to open the tap to start it?
Thanks,
Alex
Yours is a slightly newer model than mine but I’m sure you only need to connect a 12v supply to the red and black wires. Do nothing with the grey and purple.
That relay would be used to switch on a pump if you didn’t have a pressured water system. Hope that helps 👍🏼😊
@@GregVirgoe thank you very much, I'll try to connect only the red and black. :)
Greg, I’ve been watching all of your videos after someone mentioned you on a Campervan forum. I have to say, I’ve watched thousands of videos from people doing builds and your’s are by far the most informative. I’ll be starting my VW Crafter LWB build when this virus mess dies down, with your videos close by for help lol. I’m thinking of putting a pop top roof in too, which should be interesting as it doesn’t seem to be done much. I’d be interested to see you build a new van to watch how things would change compared to this build, thanks for everything.
Thanks for the nice comment, I'm thinking of doing another build so watch this space :D
Do you fancy trialling the pop top roof design that is predominately for the Transporters and smaller vans, so I can then see how it goes? Lol I’ll put a video up if I beat you to it!! Take care pal.
Nice work as always Greg,👌 everyday is a learning curve ❤️
Greg would you believe I used exactly the same shower as you and completed my shower build around October. I also have the same thetford and the flush connector as you. I had no leaks and put 2 jubilee clips over the 12mm inside 15mm hose (no leaks). However, I think this will be retro fitted the same way you have done it. Totally agree that Thetford need to change the flush hose on the toilets. I too had a leak but it was self inflicted. I manged to screw into one of the copper pipes out of the back of my shower fitting my 5 mm ply. I ended up extending the shower wall inspection panel to check for leaks or do any maintenance in future. I had to strip out my batteries and a lot of my electric to repair my own error. Building the Van has proved to be intensive. Having to engineer and problem solve through out the build has bee a massive learning curve. This year we really launching to using of the van and we hope corona virus does not impact travel plans. 20 Months of weekend and evening work and just cannot wait to start the user journey. Thanks for sharing the footage for toilet and shower connections.
Tracey Hart it will be so worth it when you get the total freedom of travel. It’s so easy to find free parking places over here and free services too. Makes travelling long term very reasonable. Have fun 😀
@@GregVirgoe 8 Weeks to Early retirement...yeay
Tracey Hart whoop whoop 🙌
Hi Greg - I’m still plodding along (slowly!!) with my Sprinter conv, and can’t tell you how much your vids are helping . 2 quick Q’s if I may? When feeding the Truma ducting from the living area to the garage - did you find it tight squeeze coming through the furniture board / wheel arch area? Or are my measurements out? 🤣 And secondly I see your bulkhead between living area and garage is lined with ply on the garage side. What was the reason for this? Is this something I need to do? Thanks as always for your time.
What a nightmare Greg. Water can cause so much damage. I run my pump when I need too and try not to leave pressure in the system when I'm not using it in case it strings a leak.
Glad you eventually got it sorted before you ended up wit a delamination nightmare.
pa maj I can see your train of thought there. JG fittings rely on pressure to keep the locking ring pushed out. Unless you have the c clips installed it’s best not to take pressure away from the joints in case they work loose.
@@GregVirgoe That makes sense. So probably best to use c clips if/when installing a new system. Cheers Greg! Hope you're all having a nice time 👍👍👍
Hi greg
I watch your upload alot as i am looking to convert ford transit of mine living in ireland and have one question in regards to plumbing why not use 15mm qualplex or acorn pipie to plumb as it is so easy to get fitting for near me or am i missing something in regards to connecting to pumps?
Thanks ali draper
Great vid mate, its good to see and show the issues found along the way. This always shows not everything is a walk in the park building vans and gets your grey matter working for solutions. keep up the great vids and your great journey you are both having.
Amazing guy total respect
Great recovery, gud
Hi building my own conversion. inspired by your videos. I have the same setup water tank plumbed in but the wiring is so confusing. I am using the sureflow pump onboard. do you have your wiring diagram you used. Please
I have prepared some really useful videos on the wiring of our van. The build videos are all arranged into one playlist from start to finish. Here is the wiring one th-cam.com/video/rVkDPzrA-zw/w-d-xo.html
Hi Greg, I noticed a seal around the bottom of the doors, like a brown rubber, I didn't see those on the shower build videos, did you add them to keep smells in?
It was just a bit a draft excluder strip but to be honest there is never any snells from the cassette as we always keep it really clean 🧼🤩
@@GregVirgoe cool!! and thanks for you fast answer as always. it's really cool to see also where you put the door magnets. Great videos and stay safe! :)
Great Video 💪
Quick question ,how does the toilet connection look like? there is only one 12v cable going in?
Ta
There are two lives and one negative on your toilet which both need to be linked at the connector block if you have the same toilet as us with a solenoid valve and push button and a pressurised water system.
@@GregVirgoe Hi Greg - any chance of picking your brains on wiring the Thetford CS200 toilet? Mine has 4 connections at the toilet - Brown, Blue, Black, Black/White.
I’m guessing the 12v live to Brown, -ve to Blue, but 2nd live? To Black or Black/White?
Any tips gratefully received!
Will
Hi Greg ,yes that brass barb fitting definitely looks to small for the blue flexible hose ,it should be pretty snug when pushing the pipe over the barb ,if the barbs are correct ie 12mm od they should be fine ,I use stainless jubilee on many and not had any leaks 👍
Great tips in this video pal cheers 👍
Mark Ord thank you mate 👍🏼😊
Hi Greg, looking at your plumbing and was wondering if you have any video on how you completed the plumbing under the van ? like connecting the waste tank to shower and sink and what U bends you inserted along the line ?
Regard's Bernard
Could the problem have been exacerbated by the Thetford toilet requiring a maximum pressure from the pump of 0.7 Bar, I think your pump is 2 Bar. I'm looking at buying a toilet at the moment and wondering now whether to go for the one with a flush tank to prevent this issue as I would think it would be harmful to the pump to restrict its pressure output with a flow reducer. How's your fix holding up?
Morning Greg and Lou,
I am on the hunt for a van, and in particular, one like yours. May I ask you what to look for when I view them?
Hi Greg, I hope you are both well and staying safe, hopefully we will soon be coming out the other side of this horrendous situation and able to get back to the things we love.
in the meantime a quick observation/question. It was a nice idea to keep the shower joints in the garage for ease of access, did that also enable you to do away with stud walls thus gaining more space in your layout plan?
MACmillanish the 2x2 stud wall that I built first for the bed partition is still there it has furniture board on the living side and 9mm ply on the garage side. It’s one of the few structural parts of the build that lot of other thing fix to. I also built two stud walls similar down either side of the garage to run all my cables in these are also finished with 9mm plywood. I only lost 2” of space around the garage area which is nothing to worry about. Hope that helps
Nice video Greg just trial and error when it comes to stopping a leak but you got there in the end well done
Greg, brill. Thanks a bunch. Any chance of you uploading a pdf version of the parts list? Docx doesn't work for Android.
kevgermany here is a copy on pdf format www.dropbox.com/s/0nnpfqok6dd8c4k/Greg%20Virgoe%20Campervan%20Parts%20List.pdf?dl=0
hi greg,i have enjoyed your videos ,top skills ,and they have been a big help in my sprinter conversion,,i totally agree,those thetford connections are poor.being a plumber it got on my nerves and I figured it out the same as you,,.bye the way,where did you source the drinking water tap,i think you said it was from the states.
Problem solving at its very best. Keep calm, try one thing at at time! Great vid Greg! A question if I may? At 06:31 when you switch the pump on to test the system, you don’t appear to use the isolating switch thats directly above the pump, is there another switch just out of shot? I’m just trying to make sure I don’t forget anything!! Thanks mate!
I’m using my temp bench power supply unit to give me 12v dc so think I just switched that off
@@GregVirgoe thanks Greg- that makes a lot of sense. Can I just ask one other? In one of your kitchen build videos I noticed a grey cable emerging out of the ply lining under the kitchen worktop? Don’t suppose you could tell me what that was for? It looked like a house 3 core cable? Thanks as always.
@@willparry6547 it’s a 7core 1.5mm cable that is for the level gauges on the water tanks. It runs from the high level cupboard down inside the wall to low level then out through the floor to the water tanks level probes.
It was a multi core flex control cable. 👍🏼😃
Nice don, Gregg
Karel & Wella thank you 😊
Hi Greg and Lou, really enjoying your channel. Question on internet/data access. We're shortly off to France for 9 months and am aware most providers stop your data after 60 days. I've tried to research how we can deal with this limitation and anted to compare how you deal with it.
We can send the sim back to family in UK to re set the 60 days and for them to return to site in France.
Or but a Tourist sim deal in France...... A little expensive
Or but a sim from a company in France called "Free". They have brances in most main towns but also in many tabacs and Presse outlets.
Be great to hear what you guys think
Ray...Cheers
Ray Phillips sounds like a good idea. We are using the skyroam device now for our mobile internet. Not cheap.
Great job. Thanks for sharing. :)
Thanks for watching 👍🏼
Hello again Greg would I be ok sealing around my shower build with Sikaflex 512 as its all I have at the moment and don't fancy queuing at B&Q for hours thanks again for any help
Hi Greg.
I have bought a c223cs Thetford toilet and it has arrived without a wiring loom. Thetford do not list the loom and their agents don't know how to get one!! I have seen an American video where a guy ignores the purple and grey remote pump relay wires and connects to his pressurised system after fitting a pressure reducer, does this make any sense? Any advice you could offer would be gratefully received. Thetford are a dead loss..
Tanks again for your videos which I have used extensively. Cheers Si
With the fuel clip why did you not attach it at the very bottom of the pipe? You attached a few cm up from the bottom...Pleased that you fixed it, but l was confident that you would 😊
Kat cankan the clip was positioned in the centre of the barbed fitting with equal amount of barbs either side
@@GregVirgoe OK thank you. I understand now 😊
Hi Greg, question about pipe sizes. You mention going from a domestic shower connection size of 15mm down to the van’s internal plumbing size of 12mm... Did you purposefully use 12mm plumbing in the van for a particular reason? I ask because when doing a conversion, especially with domestic taps and showers, AND pipes and adaptors, being cheaper than caravan/camper equivalents etc., that it might be better just to go for 15mm pipe all round. Your thoughts?
Miles Fryer yes I did purposefully use 12mm LDPE and push fit fittings as it’s the standard size for motorhomes and campervans. All the boiler connections were 12mm push fit as were the drain valve etc. It does not need to be 15mm, flow rate and pressure are really good and I do not recommend installing 15mm copper or domestic fittings as there’s no flexibility in that type of installation. It can be brought cheaply online.
@@GregVirgoe Thank you Greg, I guess it is a choice of having everything house domestic or "caravan/van" dimensions. Thanks for taking the time to answer. :)
13:45 "Go on son" 🤣🤣
I think the giveaway was that you were able to remove the barb fitting without damaging the hose which implies the fitting was too small for the hose so it had no bite.
Yes you are dead right just was not big enough 👍🏼😃
Hi Greg, could you help me out with a link to the John Guest fittings you used... ive just bought the Keoni shower. Tah
www.dropbox.com/s/zvtyj0z7cdeb9d8/Greg%20Virgoe%20Campervan%20Parts%20List.docx?dl=0
Greg Virgoe sweet! Thanks GV
Hi Greg, what is the seal around the door and how is it fixed please?
craig dolan do you mean the cassette door? That is a E shaped foam strip with adhesive back normally used for draft excluder strip.
@@GregVirgoe yes that's what I meant, thank you.
Hi Greg, I've recently discovered your channel ..... absolutely Fantastic , full of loads of advice and top tips thank you.
What's your trade joiner/ chippy ? Lovely work shop.
ATB
Discovery Dave
Hi Dave no it wasn’t. I’m a mechanical services design engineer and project manager. Never had a job on the tools. Watched loads of New Yankee Workshop. Norm was my inspiration for starting doing woodwork. Started with simple jewellery boxes then progressed to tables and furniture. Fitted kitchens, built the workshop from scratch and now the van.
Thanks for joining the channel hope you find all the videos interesting 🧐
Please make a video on the type of Toilet you used and how you installed it :)
The installation of the toilet tray is shown in this video th-cam.com/video/s0GPn5dTTUw/w-d-xo.html
The toilet has now been superseded by a newer model ours was a Thetford C200 series 👍🏼
@@GregVirgoe thanks so much for all your help 😁
Good morning
Karel & Wella good morning 😀
Real good vid thanks 👌👍
Spencer Ratcliffe thanks for watching
Great video!
T455 thanks 😊
Had the same prob with my bath.
Morning Greg, should I leave the water pump on at all times or turn off once the water is up to pressure ?
vinny w mine is on all the time. It works on its own in built pressure switch and if not using water it will stay turned off and automatically come on when you need it to. 😀
@@GregVirgoe thanks Greg.
Marine industry usually have solutions plus they double clip. More of these please.
Derek to me they are like a temporary connection never had much luck with them
Look for a product called pinch clips , come in various sizes, better than jubilee clips.
In 50 years when the CIA documents have been released, will we get the true behind the scenes of the legendary build series!
TheKingOfTheWorld the final van was the third one 🤣😆
My OCD is making me twitch like Inspector Dreyfus in Pink panther with that grub screw.. Why didn't they design it to fit in the BOTTOM of the mixer unit so it would be both out of view AND be accessible with the allen key ARRGHH :D.
Stuff like that really does my nut in. :D
Andy C that would make more sense I agree 😀
If you can fit a hose onto a barbed fitting WITHOUT boiling a kettle first, it's going to leak.
Go on son 🤣👍👌✌
This is the very reason I have not connected the toilet to the water system. It is a very poor design as you say. I will use the shower head to flush the bowl as and when required. Get yer finger out Thetford !!
big bez the W4 adapter has worked without any further issues for over 18months
So that is the way to go.
@@GregVirgoe Perhaps Thetford should include the adapter with the toilet kit.
big bez that would be some help
Hi Greg
Sorry to say the hose clips your using are not jubilee clips .
They are just called hose clips .
Jubilee is a brand name .
And we use to make the clips for them many years ago.
I have worked for a Company
that make hose clips
for over forty five years here in Suffolk, our brand name is Hi Grip and Hi Torque .
Our clips are probably one of the most well respected brands in the world.
And we export all over the world including Japan .
And yes they preform well beyond the British standard .
Soon as I see the clips you were using I thought yip they are rubbish.
Glad you got the leak sorted .
But if had used one of our clips you wouldn't have had any problems.
As we pressure test our clip of that size to 200 psi with no leaks permitted .
Has anyone else tried double eared O clips?
I've used these before now on my old car cooling system and even when fitting a s/s exhaust instead of the usual U-clamps as they're really strong. They come in a range from cheapest mild steel/plated (W1) to full A4 S/steel with A4 bolt (W5). Very handy as you can easily swap them out without having to remove a hose and they don't have any holes, lumps and bumps like the ordinary Jubillees you showed us, plus bevelled edges so they don't cut into the hose. Whilst that wouldn't have solved the wrong-sized barb problem, they're still worth knowing about for future projects. Get them through suppliers on eBay etc. th-cam.com/video/dK7LDkK_zO4/w-d-xo.html
Reminds me old 80's my last VAN build, NEVER AGAIN! Just factory builds since and upgrading those a bit!