The Business of Ski Resorts
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ม.ค. 2020
- Sign up for an annual CuriosityStream subscription and also get a free Nebula subscription (the new streaming platform built by creators) here: CuriosityStream.com/wendover
Listen to Extremities at ExtremitiesPodcast.com
Buy a Wendover Productions t-shirt: standard.tv/collections/wendo...
Subscribe to Half as Interesting (The other channel from Wendover Productions): / halfasinteresting
TH-cam: / wendoverproductions
Instagram: / sam.from.wendover
Twitter: / wendoverpro
Sponsorship Enquiries: wendover@standard.tv
Other emails: sam@wendover.productions
Reddit: / wendoverproductions
Animation by Josh Sherrington
Sound by Graham Haerther (www.Haerther.net)
Thumbnail by Simon Buckmaster
Music by epidemicsound.com
Select footage courtesy the AP Archive
References:
[1] www.powder.com/stories/news/s...
[2] www.newenglandskihistory.com/...
[3] www.vailresortsretail.com/car... asc-mbs.com/benefits-overview...
[4] www.zillow.com/aspen-co/home-...
[5] www.zillow.com/manhattan-ny/h...
[6] aschousing.managebuilding.com...
[7] www.denverpost.com/2019/12/29...
[8] www.nationalforests.org/our-f...
[9] www.fs.fed.us/recreation/prog...
[10] www.economist.com/business/20...
[11] www.sciencedirect.com/science...
[12] www.epicpass.com/passes/epic-... www.ikonpass.com/en/shop-pass...
In case you're wondering why the voiceover sounds weird, I was sick, and this is what I sound like sick.
Corona?
Do you have a cold, or are you coughing by any chance?
yoooo I'm not the only one in the sick gang here
I hope you get well. Or if you have gotten well already,I hope that it was too tortuous to make a video while sick.
I was about to point out the David Attenborough level of raspiness
As a person that was born in Vail, I can't help but point out that he forgot how the resorts make money in the summer: mountain biking and hiking.
I live near a ski resort that gets nearly as many mountain bikers as skiers, but biking doesn't generate nearly as much revenue
@@quinn5109 agreed, but any revenue gained in the summer makes the off season less miserable. In Vail they also host the GoPro Mountain Games that draws mote people in the mountains than any other event that whole season, by far.
Mountain biking, hiking, destination weddings, company retreats, product launches, specifically cars (trucks & suv's) and all the other outdoor activities (fly fishing, whitewater rafting, horseback riding)... I work in a ski resort and summers are my favorite. 😂
Whistler's most visited weekend of the year is Crankworks...a mountain bike event. Summer tourism at Whistler makes them TONS of money!
Ya, the one my family grew up going to has golf, ziplining and mountain coasters they run in the summer. The town itself hosts spring, summer, and fall festivals which drives in lots of traffic in the non-winter months
Me, a ski instructor at an American ski resort: "Just got off work, let's watch Wendover!"
Wendover: "Did you know that you're poor?"
Just curious how much do skii instructors make per hour ? I always tip mine regardless
@@brpixels Short answer, its complicated.
There is a Industry wide shortage of manpower this year because the unemployment rate is low, so better now than ever before. Base pay ranges from slightly over minimum wage to at some of the bigger resorts I've heard 15$ an hour, with raises when you get higher levels of certification. Also get paid typically X amount per person taught, and at a minimum time and a half for private lessons.
Above average pay but one difficult thing can be getting a full 40 hours of work in a week. During the weekend its normally easy to get 8 hours a day, but on weekdays when the resort is slow you might only be able to teach 1 or 2 lessons.
@@brpixels at white pass in washington the instructors make 20 bucks an hour but are only on 4 hours a day when they are teaching.
Here in France we charge upwards of €/$100 hour, and during peak weeks work 8 hours a day. We don't work that hard for the full season, but you'd clock up 600 hours each winter without too much trouble. Then the tax man takes about 24%.
Google tells me Vail charges about the same for private lessons, but it looks like you guys don't see much of that cash. That sucks.
as a former ski instructor, if the job paid well everyone would be a ski instructor. its the dream job
I spent a fortune across 23 years on skiing and it was only age that finally made me stop. I loved every minute of it and don't regret 1¢. I'd do it all again!
@Life as we know it Well, being a member of a club made it affordable. We averaged about a 50% discount off the cost of doing a trip on your own.
@Etienne Mazellier Grab while the grabbing is good! The time passes incredibly fast! Look back on it later with a feeling of accomplishment and satisfaction, rather than feeling bad because you didn't do it.
Life as we know it you sound like such a blast of a person to be around
Time to start snowboarding then! Or just driving a 🛷 sled or snowmobile instead!
@@alilabeebalkoka I'm 71 and in order to not get hurt (again), it's time for me to stop.
You should do one on car rental companies.
Skippy and how they get crappier quality cars because the factory hears that they need to make 10000 cars for less money that usual at a fast pace, so corners are cut. Then the users beat the shit out of the cars, and companies like Car Max sell them as if they’re in good condition.
Skippy
rental car*
🤭
@@miniena7774 no its car rental companies
I work as a data scientist for a car rental company. He should really do it, it's an interesting business allround. On a side note here is an interesting fact. The most expensive cars are booked in the night from Saturday to Sunday between 11pm and 2 am. We had a good laugh when we discovered this little fact. You can easily picture the the group of hammered dudes pushing each other to rent that stupidly expensive AMG Merc.
@@1ax Car rental companies are in the rental car business
Sam, this is two videos in a row without planes. We're concerned.
Sincerely,
-The viewers.
He's sick man. Just give him a break.
Jishnav Dawar it’s a joke...
I was waiting for him to say we need to replace ski lifts with planes...
Needed a plane when he panned to Australia.
Thought he might mention heliskiing
i was a ski instructor and theres no way it costs them that much for us to work there. the lessons i taught were literally $250-300 everyday and I was paid $13/hour. I literally made more money in tips than my actual paycheck.
yea, that's just how employment works under capitalism. if you're making $13, your boss is making much more from you
@@__D10S__ Well duh without the boss the job wouldn’t exist
@@jmtz3149 lmao
@@jmtz3149 without the workers nothing gets done.
@@bgbear4668so they accept wgat is offered by the boss. Solution? Compete better
"Money can overcome nature, but only for a while"
Literally the whole of international trade, diplomacy and policies in one sentence.
As a gap year student living in employee housing at a famous ski resort, this video was fascinating and matched things I've noticed here
But I have to say in Europe they are pricing them selves out of the market
Is your name jack?
j1 in aspen? lol
Lol GAY
I’m partaking In the same thing next season. Was your housing paid for in full or haft off?
Wow, it‘s expensive in the US. An expensive Austrian resort with 80+ lifts charges you ~60€ a day (for adults).
And all the people working there as liftman, are seasonal - but I see the same people every year!
Most bigger, nicer resorts in the US range from 80-140. With most hovering around 100. Everything about Vail is expensive and it may have not been the most representative of all American ski resorts. But overall I’m sure European resorts are much cheaper😂. I ski at a mountain in Vermont in America with about 2500 vertical feet of skiing a ticket gioes around 60-80 USD.
Die Skigebiete in den Alpen haben eine deutlich bessere Preis-Leistung als die in Amerika. Dafür ist es in den Alpen meißt voller.
Mr Tobie, Australian resorts have charged €100 plus for years now. Perisher Valley was A$140 in 2018 the last time I skied there. Compare that to the ~A$60 I paid for a days skiing in Japan last week. We do have a very short season though, 10 weeks is usual. Even if the season runs long the resort starts to shut down lifts it either can't staff or can't afford regardless of snow cover. Australia is a hard place to be a skier or a resort owner.
Skiing in big sky (Montana) was gonna cost me about $530 for 5 days, skiing in Mayrhofen in Austria was €160 for 6 days
The US Goverment likes money so that's probbally why it's so exspensive
this just made me so damn grateful to live in Tirol, Austria where there's a ticket for around 550€ that literally gives you access to 30+ resorts for an entire year and more.
This years season startet a few weeks ago and will continue until June '22. If you only go skiing twice a week the whole season you pay less than 10€ per day of skiing :)
edit: it also gives you free entry to museums, ice skating, swimming pools and discounts for the bikepark in summer and more 💃
Yep.. it’s ludicrous! Even the 370 bucks for the 7 Days Ötztal-Card look like a bargain in comparison.
i was thinking about this, i've payed only 200€ usually for full weeks of skiing passes in austria and france.
Naja, hab schon öfters 50 €/Tag bezahlt
@@nikitavarga6594 genau deswegen schreib ich ja dass es sooo geil ist mit dem freizeitticket und dass ich dankbar dafür bin eben keine 50€ pro tag zahlen zu müssen
@@NLghost010 As usual Americans are getting fucked over by corporations, even the workers are paid like shit wile the day passes are this much expensive, I paid 500 bucks for a season pass in France (Valmorel - SFL, bought it in summer)
I feel like you forgot about a giant component here: Ski Lessons and meals. For vail at least (where I teach) over 50% of the ticket price of ski lessons goes straight to profit, and the exponential increase in cost of food without and increase in quality or worker pay over the years suggests that a decent chunk of the epicburger goes straight to profit. One thing about housing is that the issue isn't supply and demand, rather it is that Vail and Aspen explicitly cultivate a brand image of luxury and have gentrified their local towns. Finally, your analysis of public transportation systems are a bit shallow here. While the internal towns do have very good bus systems, the surrounding areas (where most employees live nowadays) are awful.
bro it’s a business video, of course it’s braindead.
You’re forgetting an even bigger element here. Every summer those parks are free of snow and thousands upon thousands of mountain bikers descend, quite literally, the steeps. I personally paid $329 for a season pass to just one of the icon resorts this year for mountain bike access via lift.
Vail makes me angry because its like Amtrak. Some resorts arent as profitable as the others, so you raise ticket prices to cover them. Like Stowes ridiculous $143 dollar day pass. Killington is cheaper and is way better imo.
amen
@@NortheasternP.T.S. and thats after the 15% cut across the board vail made to ticket and pass prices. I work as an instructor at stowe and absolutely would not be able to afford skiing there If I didn’t work there. The prices are starting to get out of control for some of these big name companies. I think Burke might be that last “cheap” ski mountain in the northeast.
Let's see how he connects this to airplanes
Guess how you get to the ski resort?
AIRPLANE
Some ski resorts are at a higher elevation than planes can fly at.
Liam Walsh He doesn't tell lies though
@@TheLiamster what?
You make easy top comments.
The cliff notes version for many of these Wendover videos would simply be "don't forget overheads and/or allocated costs" ... plus airplanes are everywhere
7:30
Actually, snow guns work even slightly above 0°C. Because some of the water droplets evaporate, the air is cooled down and the rest can freeze.
its true. if you image search 'snowmaking table' you can find that low humidity can mean snowmaking at higher temperatures.
Yes, there is added sudamonius suringei
Interesting!
indeed, there is a perfect science to it.. the dew point,ect... Actually best snowmaking is temps at ABOVE freezing....
If I'm not mistaken they can work at around 3° Celsius
I was in the industry 36 years. You forgot insurance as a big expense for resorts. Of course it varies year to year and resort to resort, but during my time as much as 25-30% of the lift ticket went to all the different insurances we carried. As for snowmaking, manmade not artificial is the preferred term.
I can imagine the amount of liability insurance they need is astronomical.
do you know if that ratio varies much between usa and europe ?
video ideas: logistics of the olympics
Yes. He should do one about how the Canadian Air Force had to fly a Zamboni from Calgary to Vancover during the Olympics to save the speed skating ice.
@@denver989 Why would they need to do that? Wouldn't there be a lot of zambonis in Vancouver already?
Well, they're a trash fire, so that should be interesting.
@@mohamedgenidy5268 planes
@@mohamedgenidy5268 Apparently not. They wanted the Olympics to have a lower carbon footprint so they bought all the ice resurfacers from a company called Olympia which makes one that runs on batteries instead of propane. They suck apparently.
There's no business like snow business
Damn right. On mountainsides, in little cups drizzled with syrup, or tightly packed in 1kg bricks, snow business is big business.
@@strilight Haha very under rated comment XD
There's no people like snow people.
By the Numbers what?!
Aka coke buisness
I think you should have compared American ski resorts to those in Europe. I really enjoyed your video but as a European watching I feel like the snow sport industries in both continents are very different. Thank you for the video!
How is it different to you I'm interested? :)
@@Lala-un5yb Price is a big thing that's different... Nobody in their right mind considers skiing a "cheap" sport in Europe either but lift passes in Germany or Austria go for 35-55€ a day (which translates to more or less the same in dollars nowadays) in small to midsize and even most large resorts, with the biggest, most upscale resorts like Sölden, Ischgl or Kitzbühel charging some 60€ a day. So that's significantly cheaper than in the US
And you have to add that ski resorts are much bigger in europe, with the ones you named having 70+ lifts and in France you got even more, for, as you mentioned, the third of the price of an American ski ticket. It already got ridiculously expensive here in Austria over the past few years, but when comparing to the US it feels like nothing
@@scooperphd Yes, i want @wendoverproductions to explain this. It is almost cheaper to take a ski trip to france, austria, or switzerland than it is to go to colorado.
@@Lala-un5yb The resort only owns lifts and few restaurants, but most of businesses associated with resorts are local businesses which compete with the resort business. This means that resort owners are under free market pressure to not have overpriced food and so on. This is the result of mountain huts predating the resorts. The municipalities also tend to support local business owners.
For most people who actually ski a good amount, especially in a place like Colorado where I live. Getting a season pass is the most economical way to use the mountain. it may be close to 1000 dollars but for a pass like EPIC or IKON you also gain full access to other mountains. I’ve already ridden 6 times this winter and that alone makes up the difference. But to be fair not all mountains are as expensive as a resort like vail or Breckinridge. You can’t really grasp why their expensive till you go there, the towns become a destination to visit in their own right and the resorts practically own the whole town. With that being said if you want to spend a week at vail or Breckinridge as a beginner with no equipment maybe riding only two or three days. Be prepared to spend upwards of 5+ thousand dollars just for two people. But back to my point that it’s possible to ride without paying an excessive amount. You just need to find small resort, out here in Colorado vail and Breckinridge aren’t any better of mountains than most other out here. So you can go ride Loveland or monarch for like 70 dollars a day, there’s just not the same infrastructure built around small resorts so it’s not nearly as boujee.
Also theres just hella rich people in the big towns like vail and Breckinridge, combined with Colorado is very anti land development. This leads to houses being in the 10 plus million in vail
Well said. Gucci at Vail, flannel at Breck. Although Breck is bougie also
In general, if you buy tickets/passes for resorts owned by larger companies or partnered together, such as vail resorts or aspen, you can expect higher prices for everything: food, equipment, hotels, etc because these places tailor specifically to tourists/out of state skiers.
Smaller resorts can often cost much less, perhaps at the cost of a longer drive or further lodging from the resort. Arapahoe basin is my favorite because it tailors to a crowd of more experienced skiers and is less busy, isn’t as expensive as most other resorts, and has amazing snow.
Funny for 5000 dollar it would be would be cheaper flying to the french alps buying your snowboard gear there and go snowboarding for a whole week.....
Of that $5K, I’m guessing at least 80% of that is accommodation rather than lift tickets right?
As coming from Austria prices over 100$ seem horrendous to me.. In our Ski resorts, tickets start at 25$ up to 70$, but never more than that.
thought that too, even here in switzerland they're rarely more than 90-100 dollars
Oh man, Whistler/Blackcomb (site of the 2010 Winter Olympics) is no joke. Parking there can easily cost more than many place's lift tickets. Add in hotels and food and transportation and I'm telling ya, it's not for the faint of wallet. A long weekend skiing trip for a family of 4 that lives within driving distance can easily still costsas much as a used car.
Jason Dashney
That is outrageous.
And I don't think they're doing it to promote carpooling
Cheap lift prices in Austria and Switzerland hardly make up for more expensive everything else.
Larry Smith it’s really not that expensive in Switzerland you just need to know the right places.
I love that you addressed the urban challenges of ski resort towns!
City Beautiful you should do a video on ski resort towns!
@@Connor_Herman yes
@@Connor_Herman gd idea
They mentioned it very brief sadly,
Great video! I disagree that Ikon and Epic passes are better for the consumer. My local hill (they call themselves a mountain but it's hardly one) got bought out a few years back and prices increased dramatically. To add insult to injury they were asking us to pay in USD (Canadian here). We got the same spin about "more choice" but what I want is a season's pass for my local hill and nothing more. If I want to, I'll do a separate trip elsewhere. I don't want to pay hundreds more for an option of resorts I may not have considered in the first place. I think you've raised an excellent point about why the consolidation is happening, but, regular skiers and snowboarders who don't travel across the continent on a whim are certainly not better off.
Yeah, and the reason many people buy season passes now is because the tickets are so expensive. People who only go up a few times a year are now buying passes that were originally intended for regulars...
Another thing to consider is for places like the Rockies, people are not traveling across country. I can drive 45 minutes to a below average Eldora, or spend another hour and make it to Copper. Also snow qualities vary on these different resorts, making the Ikon pass a nice choice as much to choose from.
@@airgoattotle I assure you as someone from Houston, TX, people ARE traveling across the country for the Rockies.
I've only been skiing for 2 years and noticed the epic and ikons mountains are at least $50 more than independent ones. That's over $150 vs $100 or less. They also aren't much better. I only end up going to them, because my friends with epic/ikon refuse to go anywhere else, so I have to give in. They do give me their friend/family discount of 25% off, so it helps a little, but that's still $125 vs $100.
@@vazquezcarlos we went to Red River, NM last month which has a lift ticket price of like $94 if you buy in advance online which is far cheaper than winter park last year. I will say though winter park is like 3x as big, has much better scenery, and much more consistent snow. I remember in 2010 when I went to winter park for like $95 a day.
According to Vail Resorts, they don't make very much money from season passes - they make a large amount of money from tourists buying day passes, because those tourists are the ones spending money on their expensive hotels and dining. Locals who have a seasons pass typically bring their own food.
This has been a huge pain point for Vail this year, they saw huge revenue drops due to travel restrictions in Whistler which prevented tourists from coming in.
You could do one on insurance companies, I would really like to understand how they calculate risk and premium prices.
Simple,
model of the cars...the more popular the model lesser the premium e.g. Corolla rav4 crv
Postcode....car related claims in the past
Drivers age, history
Now profession is a bigger factor
As someone who works in commercial insurance, I would love this, too. Other people need to know about what weird stuff you can insure and what the exposure basis is! Like, did you know you can buy insurance to defend yourself/pay settlements when you get sued for having a hostile work environment? Or for the CEO gets sued when the stock price drops? Or for when a code mistake causes a massive data breach?
I mean also auto and home insurance and normal lines, too, but the less commonly known commercial lines are where most people start blinking at me and asking if being able to insure that is a good idea and how that even works, which means it's perfect for an explainer video of some sort.
Insurance is a weird subject, for sure.
And I'm sure the details of it would be fascinating.
It seems like the underlying basis of it is a lot like gambling but with the odds set up differently.
The basic premise behind it is fairly simple though - rather than have one person deal with both the rewards and risks of events with relatively low probability, you spread that cost over a very large number of people. The costs to the individual get reduced to manageable levels. It is of course very much a 'what if' proposition though.
If nothing ever happens to you, all that money you spent on insurance over time is wasted.
But if something bad happens when you have no insurance, the costs you could be faced with could ruin you. (both because it's likely to be more than the insurance you've paid over time, but also because it's often a very large cost that has to be dealt with in a very short space of time)
Spreading the potential risk over time could be done simply by saving money.
But insurance spreads your risk not only over time, but over a large number of individuals...
Great idea when it works well, but can go badly in many different ways...
(both because insurance companies are out to make a profit - which clearly comes at the expense of the members - how could it not? But also because it may encourage riskier behaviour from some which drives up the costs for everyone.)
Insurance Companies are essentially investment banks but they get their capital from premium
@@vividwings Every time he's brought up insurance in a video he's gotten something wrong
Watching this from Norway, in January, and I haven't seen snow covering the ground for a month.
Same here in Sweden, except that we didnt even get snow at all
@@yuchongliu7788 Swede here as well, i think we've had one day of snow in early december where i live and thats it so far
Doesn't it snow there alot this time of year?
Its really more or less the same around Europe ain´t it? Almost no snow here in Czechia/Germany. Its really nothing compared to last years.
Yep, can confirm lack of snow in Norway
Would love to see one about how biking became an integral part of the Dutch lifestyle.
NightSkyOutLaw90 this video sort of covers that! th-cam.com/video/zq28fU2AuMU/w-d-xo.html
it would be related back to planes of course
@@kmansfield8770 Fokker lol
Not Just Bikes has a lot of good content on this. Mostly the oil crisis of the 1970s plus concern over car safety shifted the Netherlands away from car-centric infrastructure towards bikes, transit, and people/business-friendly streets.
Wendover really doesn't cover that style of logistics, but like someone mentioned "not just bikes" is probably your best resource on this
My local small "resort" was bought by a larger conglomerate within the past few years and I had been passively wondering why. This was a solid little essay about it! One of the main lifts is due for replacement in the summer and recently broke. Pre-buyout I don't think it would have been fixed during the season but with parent company funds it looks like they're going to try.
I honestly didn’t realize how much I love economics until I started watching these videos. I could watch these vids all day about pretty much any industry
there's also a channel called economics explained which also makes videos like these, you should definitely check it out
These prices are insane. The top ski resorts in Europe like Charmonix in France or Saalbach-Hinterglemm-Fieberbrunn in Austria (which are considerably larger than Aspen or Vail) have day passes at around 70$
And even that is really expensive. I usally pay about 250€ for 7 days in a really big Area.
In japan most of the resorts day pass are below 50$
Saalbach is even a little bit less, 66€(which is about 70$, but if u go after 11:30 its 55€, and if u buy a morning ticket(valid until 12:30) its 55€ too(58 usd i think)
When Alterra bought out my home resort 5 years back (Bear Mountain Resort, CA), the lift prices went from an average of of $70 (or $50 if you bought 4 packs from Costco) to an average of somewhere around $120. It's insane.
yeah, this video explains some of the pricing. but it's still technically an elite/privileged sport
As someone who lives in the mountains of CO and has been going to Veil for years, great job covering this (especially the recent changes) so thoroughly and accurately. 👌
Meanwhile in Austria: the 'Zillertaler Superskipass' including 4 Ski resorts with about 400 Miles of ski tracks and 180 lifts costs about $350 for a week, so $50 per day.
6:24 ! SUOMI! TORILLA TAVATAAN!
That is what happens when you buy a bunch stock footage :-)
PERKELE!
Jumalauta perkele ruka
Haha vitun hyvä viesti. Syö mämmiä ja saunotaan!
I learned in my Parks and Recreation Management degree, that ski resorts lose money on mountain operations like lifts, grooming, and snowmaking. The big profit makers are food and beverage, lodging, and condo real estate. In many mountain towns the resort own most of the restaurants, hotels, ski shops, and housing. Vail Resorts in particular leans heavily on the real estate sales side of the business.
I feel like the typical Austrian and German Ski Resorts I know work differently.
A day pass is usually around 50€ and the lifts are often operated by the people(farmers) living in the villages who use this land for their cows in the summer. They then get together and form resorts.
As a Cable Car Engineer, I have to correct you, we workt all year here in europe at least, because those big ski lifts also need big revisions and that needs time and skilled workers.
You just did the same to us that most of the people think.... calling thatvwe just work some months in winter when most of the personal work all year round haha ^^
"So where you headed?"
"Aspen."
"Mmm....California. Beautiful!"
You can tell it's Aspen because of the way it is.
No no Aspen is the one that’s beautiful
"I thought the Rocky Mountains would be rockier, John Denver was full of shit"
@@jobobk806 "You had EXTRA gloves this whole time?!?!"
"A place where the beer flows like wine"
*Small correction at **7:25** :*
Snowmaking doesn't require temperatures to be below freezing, because the water that's used is sprayed out of a nozzle under high pressure where the water then quickly disperses into a much larger volume with less pressure, which is the atmosphere. This takes energy out of the water droplets, just like expanding gases also get colder when they expand.
On top of that, you have the effect of evaporation which uses energy to change the water droplets into water gas which further cools down the remaining droplets. All of this means, that temperatures up until around 5°C (depending on air humidity, snow cannon pressure and nozzle size) allow snow cannons to create snow.
This is a very basic explanation. Further reading on wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowmaking
*EDIT:* As the user Corry Fox pointed out, you'll want the snow to fully nucleate in order to not create a icerink. For that, temperatures below 0°C are necessary. I guess I was technically right, but it makes me sound like a dick now. Sorry about that!
Not saying you’re not theoretically right, but having worked as a snowmaker I can tell you most types of real world snow gun stop being able to fully nucleate 100% of the water they spray when the temp hits the high 20s F, resulting in unusably wet snow that would freeze rock solid, not to mention cake the equipment in ice. Where I worked we shut down the system at 27.
Of course this certainly could change based on the temperature of the water charge entering the gun, most resorts use large cooling tower systems to lower the temp of naturally warm ground water. We would get the water down to the high 30s F. Any colder and you start increasing the risk of frozen hoses and equipment. I’m sure if you were making with water as close to freezing as you could get it in perfect conditions you could make good snow in warmer ambient temps.
I live at a ski resort that has brand new snow makers but they still need it to be below freezing.
@@ThisFineCurfuffle Thanks for the insight! I once made one myself with a simple medical pump and a small nozzle which easily created snow up until around 6°C but I didn't look at the amount of water that wasn't turned into snow. Makes sense that you want 100% of the water to turn to snow in order to not create an icerink. Will edit my original comment.
Box Fort Boys CHANNEL yeah even $50,000 fully automated techno alpine fan guns struggle when it gets close to 30 degrees
It also depends on the humidity as well. it could be below freezing but the Wet-bulb could be too high. so depending on what kinda snow you want that has a lot to do with it.
209$ / day and resort closing at 3pm : *laughs in French*
Laughs in Austrian :D 55€a day for 82 skilifts :D around 300km of slopes
Yes. Vail sucks. They are a cancer on American skiing.
Or $700 for a pass that gives me access to 34 resorts worldwide. I'm on my 50th consecutive month of riding. *laughs in Coloradoese* Oh, and that info was wrong on the closing. It's 8 or 9 until 4, with Keystone offering night skiing.
@@lonememe Lol, those 34 resorts worldwide that you get from $700 pass have all combined less slopes than a Les Trois Vallées in France with daily ski pass of 67USD.
@@Nico-db6dc Les Trois Vallees 60€/day 205 lifts around 600km of slopes....but they don't use the snowcats as often as other resorts, not the best for groomers. But more important, over 20 weeks season W the Alps
Great video. Would love to see a version that's specific to Europe and the Alps. A number of things will be different there. Ski lifts and services are better while prices are not higher. Wonder why, how many companies are involved, etc.
One big reason I think is really just the luxury compared with the remoteness. There are definitely luxury resorts in Europe, especially in the Alps, but places like Aspen are some of the fanciest places you can vacation, so you're also paying for large five star hotels, flying in luxury food ingredients from far away, sourcing expensive drinks, etc. In places where regular people live close enough to the slopes to ski regularly there are a lot more resorts that aren't nearly as extravagant, and I think there are more places like that in European mountain areas. Also, I feel like things are always more expensive in the US when you're looking at the most famous luxury items and activities; they've got marketing strategists who really know how to make people want to spend money for the sake of spending money.
WP: *Talking about young people working at ski resorts*
*shows clip of a man in a wheelchair trying to put his dogs lead on his head*
Me: “ah yes, I understand now”
2:34
"None of the major resorts rely heavily on artificial snow"
*Beijing 2022 Winter Olympics Venue has left the chat.*
lol facts
Yep it has, quite literally. Nothing is happening
every Australian ski resort has entered the chat
This was a an excellent video. I am not a skier and never have but this was a great snapshot of the industry and the challenges the resorts face.
I grew up in Utah, Very famous for our snow and skiing. I got season passes for as long as I can remember. The "pass of all passes" as we in Utah call em are a game changer for us. If Utah has a bad start to the season, we can head over the Colorado or north into the Canadian Rockies. Most even contain some availability in Europe or Asia, great innovation for the ski world, for the slopes and the skiers!
I am a ski coach. And this was one of my favorite videos you've made (I've watched them all). Keep up the awesome work 😊
Wendover there is an airport at aspen you forgot to talk about!!
There's an airport at a ski resort in Eastern France, might be Chamonix but I'm not positive, that basically has the world's shortest runway. It's so short it isn't flat, it uses gravity to slow the landings and speed up the takeoff.
Daniel V that would be corchevel. Great resort!
Wonderful information, and as always a great video! As one of apparently few people who have never practiced any form of snowy leisure, I never thought about the economics around it, other than knowing people spend loads of money on it.
Love the creation of the EPIC and IKON passes. Opens up so many more options for recreational skiing. Reminds me of my childhood days as a ski racer in HS and University with the ski racer passes which worked at all the mountains we raced or practiced. Though one benefit of the racing pass that I wish EPIC and IKON had is for discounts at independent resorts outside the pass system. At Univ of Colorado if our racing passes did not work for a mountain in Colorado they usually gave us a significant discount (usually no more than $10 for a day or night ski pass). I remember using that option a lot to ski Winter Park/Mary Jane which a lot of us racers would go to as only about 1.5 hrs. from campus plus we loved to register and compete in the annual bump bash competitions even though those VW size moguls on MJ were never my favorites.
Places EPIC and IKON should add would be Termas, Chili and Hakuba, Japan (9 ski resorts on one ticket in that valley). Both great places to ski.
I ski & snowboard in Europe and the situation there is quite different
For starters, they don't own the land. They rent it of farmers
Plus €60 per day tickets. Makes it a lot cheaper.
And the farmers also often work on the resorts in winter. And the ski passes are much cheaper.
and you can buy a full season skipass for 1k usd that covers like dozen huge areas in alps.
The European skiing industry is very different. In North America, usually most of it is owned or managed by the resort itself, whereas in Europe there are a many local businesses, such as the restaurants and hotels, who collaborate with the ski area. Many European ski areas are owned (or part-owned) and run by local governments and communities, and often have marketing partnerships or tariff agreements with other ski areas to sell more season tickets.
This is largely because most European ski areas are based around existing settlements which set up their own local ski areas, which have grown and physically merged over the decades. Sometimes they receive government funding to help survive or expand. North American resorts are often dedicated resort destinations made by private companies.
The attitude towards skiing and the local area can be very different too. North American resorts usually have a boundary within which everything is part of the resort, whereas European areas only include the pistes, outside of which is not the ski area's responsibility.
@@visjenl In northern Italy you can access pretty good ski resort (about 20 slopes) at 30€/day, between monday and friday. Seasonal skipass 500€
Great video. It would interesting to see another video about how the growth of summer mountain biking has helped the bottom line and hedge against shorter winters.
This is an interesting perspective as I once worked at a Colorado ski resort. I loved working there for a couple of seasons - we all made tons of money despite what this video suggests, had access to cheap employee housing, enjoyed skiing and snowboarding, and experienced tons of partying. Best years of my life with the best community.
I can’t believe I didn’t see this video earlier. I love this channel and have been watching for a long time and I’m an avid skier starting when I turned 2 and to this day I still ski. Great vid
sam:
the aviation industry: we're losing him!
@Abdigani Aden party pooper
Flying and skiing are both my biggest passion and I am really surprised that they made a video on this
I am genuinely astounded that you made this topic so interesting and provided such information.
Definitely one of your standout videos in my opinion.
3:00 I went here to Park City of the last winter. Amazing skiing and you can actually ski over that bridge in the bottoms there to the buildings too
Hi Sam, we love the way you present your videos with so much accuracy in your research. Please can you tell us how you research for your videos and how you get this information out
Wachusett mountain near me has the most snowmaking per acre of any ski area in North America
Justin Noseworthy
Been there. Great skiing area!
waaa WAAA waaa, Wachusett
Fun place.
Sunday River (the mountain I work at) was rated no1 on the east coast (or maybe it was all of north America) last season.
Edit: part of it was our customer service from ticket desk to summit. And I was in the middle of it.
Justin Wang
Love Sunday River! Had a great powder day there on MLK weekend!
I live in CO so it's cool seeing a video about us! I recently went skiing and being interested in transit, it was surprising to me to see busses (some of them free; but idk if all of them are) that transport people within the resort to surrounding towns. The biggest downside to skiing is the mountain traffic back on Sunday's... Expanding I70 isn't physically the best option, due to the mountains. They recently added an toll lane but when it's not peak hours, the lane is closed, which is weird. But each day that I drive on 70, it's common to see ski vans that transport people from the airport to ski resorts.
I grew up on Long Island and during the winter skied constantly. I then spent many years overseas and skied France, Switzerland, Italy and Slovenia. Last time I skied was 2014 in Vermont and I do not miss it for one minute. Fun thing to do with your friends when your 25 but at 56 you want no part of the cold and stress on your body.
and another excellent documentary from Wendover Productions as usual, +1 and keep uploading.
When I was skiing recently it seemed like everyone has the epic pass. On chairlifts people talk about it, and in the restaurants people use it to pay. It’s crazy how popular it is now
We have a ski resort that’s popular. There’s an Austrian gondola lift as well
From what I read about, all of the really high mountains where the good skiing is will still be cold enough in the next 50 years or so. But most of the small ski hills will go out of business. Basically, the altitude of the biggest resorts is going to really help them stay open :)
You must listen to global warming conspiracy theorists
I once spent two nights in a condo up at Snowmass. You could hear the snow cats all night. It was truly astounding because I realized the amount of work that goes into this, just so I could have a fun day the next day. Also kind of eerie, because the snow cats are big, loud, and have big lights.
I love this video and the issues it addresses! I spent two summers working in Jackson Hole, WY and as much as I loved it, housing was a crazy issue. The homelessness problem, especially in the summer, is unreal, which is even crazier when you consider the majority of houses in the county are completely empty when not in ski season.
the homeless is a a health of the mind issue. I really doubt u would allow the homeless to destroy your seasonal home if you had one.
Are those prices normal for the us? its cheaper in europe.
Yep in Italy it’s like 210€ for 5 days
Yup, even in the Northeast US with small mountains with less than 6-8 lifts, $80 is about the minimum.
The thing is that they ski way less on the US; we Europeans are, like, the biggest skiers in the world.
Yes. Most of the good ski resorts in the US are pretty damn expensive.
In park city Utah the price of day passes from Dec. 26 until Jan. 4 were 189.
There are still places with good skiing and reasonable prices. Big Powderhorn and Indianheat in the Michigan Upper Peninsula are two. Two hundred inches of mostly powder snow most seasons and season passes at around $300. I bought an old miner's house two miles from both ski areas for $35,000, retired early, and now I ski every day from mid-December into April.
35.000$ house and a 300$ a season skiing pass? Mate, you've hit the jackpot.
5:41 Damn, only every 12 minutes! Whistler and Vancouver both have some routes that come as often as 3-5 minutes during peak hours. Also, Whistler Village is very well set up so that if you’re staying in it, you can walk anywhere else within the village, and can easily walk to the whistler, blackcomb, and fitzgerald gondolas/chairs.
I remember reading articles 25 years ago that said skiing would be mostly long gone in the USA in 15 years. Total BS
Who is John Galt?
And in 1965 they thought we'd be visiting Mars by 1985 and living on the Moon by 1995. Doesn't mean those things won't happen, just certain factors changed and they were 40, 50 years too early.
Just your typical socialist try to take more control over our lives. The greatest factor in climate change is the sun, not human activities
@@angelomartinez9039 We have been following the same path around the sun for billions of years. What caused the temperature increase?
Hyper Knight that’s not true, we have been edging away from the sun for millions of years. And the earth has not been on the same path for billions of years that’s just not true. The sun is one of the greatest factors of climate change but it is not the only factor. All of the major factors are out of our hands. Do you really think we are that significant in the grand scheme of things
As someone who has lived in the Colorado mountains for 7 years in Aspen and currently Steamboat this video is my reality. I wish you would have spoken about summer activities and what resorts are doing to diversify in that way. Ski resorts are nearly a year round industry on a local scale nowadays.
Outstanding video. The level of complexity of you into is amazing
The ski industry is still seeing a huge issue with cost though. Ski resorts popped up when skiing was much cheaper and there were more people. Trends show that the rates of people going to ski resorts aren't going up because it is so cost prohibitive, especially if you buy a pass (the best value) as you'll need to secure housing and either rent or own equipment for multiples weekends a year.
How has Vail specifically started to battle this? By emphasizing the villages as a money maker. There has been a concerted push to make towns like Vail "destination" areas not just for skiing but for concerts and other live events. They want top-tier food so people will visit and spend money (and most ski town businesses in some way feed back towards the resort owners) no matter what time of year. This is only further driving up prices though. Without a good way to make skiing accessible for lower-income individuals these resorts are going to be struggling in the near future.
Just compare both housing and skiing prices to the European Alps and you see the difference... It's HUGE.
For US citizens it really does make sense to buy the plane ticket to Austria instead of burning money in US resorts...
Dear Sam (Mr. Wendover),
What you are missing is the fact that, up until a few years ago, the majority of low-skil employees in ski resorts (as well as other 'seasonal' enterprises in the USA) were staffed by Eastern Europeans and Russians. This especially applies to the smaller resorts. Increasing integration of places like Poland, Romania and Bulgaria have brought these individuals to seasonal employment in places like Western Europe and the UK, where wages are higher than Americans would offer at ski resorts or six-flags. I worked as a waiter in a five-star hotel in London, and literally all of my co-workers were Bulgarian and Romanian, and some of the older ones had worked in America at ski resorts in their late-teens.
You are correct, to an extent, that increased labour costs are fuelling centralisation of the industry. That's not completely wrong. But it's more a problem of finding workers who can speak English, have rudimentary hospitality and/or mechanical skills, don't have year-round employment, and are willing to work for anywhere from minimum-wage to $13.50 per hour. While healthcare is provided for these individuals while they are working during those 4 months of the year that the resorts are in operation or preparation, there are still 8 more months throughout the year.
Up until the late-1980s, Skiing was understood as a fairly elite kind of holiday. Look at the 1981 James Bond movie "For Your Eyes Only" as a comparison. With changes in consumer culture in the 1990s, Skiing companies tried to bring in middle-class customers to resorts which often had to produce their own snow at expensive costs. This was only sustainable insofar as these Ski companies could tap into cheap labour reserves from contracting companies in Eastern Europe, the same agencies which supplied workers for youth summer camps and Six Flags. The ultimate problem with Ski Resorts isn't climate change, [which for the dimwitted skeptics in this room, undoubtedly exists, and to which we are contributing], but rather fashioning a form of leisure based on seasonal use of marginal land in a manner which requires high amounts of cheap labour. And we as consumers want to do this for $100 per weekend.
I have a friend whose family owns a pizzeria on Long Island. I met up with him this past Christmas when I was home visiting family. I asked him how the business was running. He complained to me that the only employees they can recruit are high-schoolers and ex-cons. I asked what they pay; he said minimum wage. I asked if he offers them space for advancement; he said no. I told him he shouldn't expect this to change.
Industries which require seasonal [or surge-based] work, especially the tourism sector, have long depended on sources of cheap workers whose communities will offset the costs of production. It remains to be seen if this will be able to be sustainable.
Please research for a future video the role of Filipinos in the Gulf Tourism and Air-Travel sector.
-Bernie
This was a super good one. I would love to know more details about ski resorts, I had no idea the industry was consolidating that much. Also, love the music choice at the end, that was on my college study list!
Great video, I worked in the ski industry for 12 years. This should be mandatory viewing for anyone who goes skiing.
There’s also the fact that ski resorts are sinking more money into summer mountain activities. Whistler is already a staple in the downhill mountain biking scene, with its summer activity being relatively competitive with its winter activity. Companies like purgatory have also started investing in exclusively warm-weather “resorts,” such as spider mountain, which has been proven to be wildly successful despite its location being flat and relatively small.
near my hometown we have two ski hills. There's Big Sky, which is massive and extremely expensive (though students with good grades get a nice discount on season passes), and there's Bridger Bowl, which has only 7 lifts but is way cheaper and in my opinion better. There's a free bus to Bridger which is awesome, and kids as young as eight will take the bus up with friends, ski all day, and come back for dinner, all without parents involved. It's great. Furthermore, we have ski field trips in school every year from 3rd grade through middle school. As someone who's been skiing since I was three, I found this video highly interesting. If someone wanted to take a closer look into the economics and logistics of ski resorts I'd recommend looking at Bridger Bowl and Big Sky, as the two give very different sides to the story
I went skiing for the first time in my life this month so this was very interesting and timely
I was just skiing in Verbier, Switzerland and was surprised by the amount of snowmaking machines that were there. By comparison at a ski resort in the Three. Valley area of the French Alps didn’t have any that I could see
This is such a great analysis in this industry. Great work!
Could you do one on the logistics of the Alpine World Cup? I know it's really niche, but there is no harm in asking
That would be so cool! Most (globally) underrated sport in my opinion.
btw i’m someone who isn’t even completely sure what sport that is (i’m assuming downhill skiing) but i would be interested so it could have some interest
9:39 - I was at this resort (Ruka in Finland) this winter, great resort and that bar is very decent!
Perkeleeeee!!!
$210 for a day's lift pass is outrageous, for 30 odd lifts.
The world's largest ski area, Les Trois Valleys, with 180 ski lifts, only cost $75 per day.
$210-$300 is the season pass. they expect the average season pass holder to only show up 6-8 times. daily is $25-$50 this is in the USA as a resident of the state. non resident daily pass has to pay double for taxes.
@@Master-ls2op
I'm just going on what is said in this video
@@boogiejed5485 im just saying the video is wrong. it is not good reporting.
Vail bought a resort in Michigan awhile back. Essentially, the lift tickets doubled overnight. Same with golf.
Born and raised in Aspen, you did a great job explaining everything
@Honda CRV yeah they actually didn't film it at all there though
They didn’t film any of it in Aspen. The mountain scenes were filmed in Estes Park (Stanley Hotel), Breckenridge and Copper Mountain Ski Resort.
Wasn’t born in Aspen, but learned to ski there and is what I’d consider my home resort. Nothing compares to Aspen.
Try Austria once, the origin of alpine skiing, here you get much more modern lifts and a resort with 88 lifts costs 50$
*60€ which is around 80 $ if you mean Arlberg ;)
*In the west
@@JvcMichi *$80
10:42
Subnautica enthusiasts: *_Hey I've seen this one before!_*
lmao
every single vid this channel makes is so informative. Its great
How did you get Alex Jones to voice this
Bump
The conspiracy of ski resorts
joey04ryan07 Because he found out that melted snow water turned some frogs gay, and he passed on this info to Alex
"Alterra Mountain Company"
_Subnautica intensifies_
I work for Alterra. I cracked up for several minutes when I saw that in Subnautica.
Anyways, this video is deadly accurate, as someone that has lived in a ski town for a decade now.
My first thought hearing that name. Came to the comments to look for someone like you
When I heard Intrawest made the name change, I was really confused for a few minutes.
YES! I heard the jingle when you first turn on your ipad thing every time he said it lol.
Alterra mountai company will be building a massive spaceship that will be shot down by an alien gun on a mountain once dolphins are extinct. You won't get this unless you play the game
I've been to two resorts that are open during the summer! They have hiking trails, lake, and summer activites now so some of them are year round.
Its amazing how muchthe industry is growing at a time where for me my "local" resorts got 0" of snow this year. I've been snowboarding my whole life but only went a few times a year if at all,but the last 5 years ive ben averaging 35-40 days a year living in Baltimore. I rode like 12 new resorts this year,and along with that a lot of new chirlifts. there is a massive amount of new lifts comming to resorts. and utah is still building new resorts
More ski resorts should focus on downhill mountain biking during the off months.
The only problem with that is, that its not really a super popular sport. And the more resorts that focus on this, the more competetion there will be.
Simon Lyngbo True, but I think if an industry leader decided to push the sport with advertising marketing etc. The sport could grow. Much like downhill skiing was niche in the 70s. My grandparents were early adopters and liked to tell me stories about what the ski mountains were like back then. At least in the north east.
Whistler in BC is actually developing a huge bike park and is diversifying more and more
@@jaredj631 My local ski resort here in Bulgaria has started doing just that in the past couple of years, it even hosts some red bull competitions. Though I highly doubt it's really sustainable since most bikers are young people who don't really bring much money to the resort but I guess it's better than shutting down for the entire off season.
they only need to run 1 lift out of the whole resort for this too. they normally build tons of trails with great diversity of trails off only 1 lift
As the owner of a small ski lift I can say you nailed it. And about snowmaking-constructing a snowmaking system can be much, much more expensive than the ski lifts...
But how do you explain the MASSIVE difference to European ticket prices? top resort vs top resort has a factor 3 difference!
I have worked many seasonal jobs including ski resorts in CO and East Coast. I love to ski and ride and that's the only reason anyone works any seasonal job is because they love it, never the "competitive pay". Most individuals get 2 jobs if they want to actually save money. All ages but heavily weighted towards 18-24.
The phrase "My job is better than your vacation" is taken to heart. It is hard to complain when your office is a mountain.
I did a season as a lifty for Vail resorts and it was a great time! No money but i could ride my snowboard right to building i lived in.
Everything wendover makes a video on is an interest of mine. Love it
I just bought my first snowboard before UK lockdown 😭 Can't wait until I actually get to use it. Probably shouldn't complain about the cost of lift passes!
I work in an Australian ski resort, and the costs can be mind boggling.
The maintenance of equipment is also expensive.
Each snow cat will use roughly its purchase price over 10 years, just in parts(then add labour).
Each lift gets constant maintenance.
A new lift was over AU$15mil.
A large percentage of the resort is groomed each night(well over 50%)
When possible, all snow guns are operated to add to the coverage.
Just the sheer amount of electricity required and its associated costs are staggering.
Then we have things like busses, trucks, skidoos, cars, etc that re also required and maintained.
Starting work there really opened my eyes and makes me appreciate what we have, and at how little we can access it.
In Quebec you see more and more mountains adapting for summer activites (Mountain biking, hiking and even having water parks).