Yes. Some audience complain when characters in wuxia movies display superhuman feats like jumping to the roof or gliding, yet they don't bat an eye at the exact same feats in Western superhero or fantasy movies. Both wuxia and superhero genre have their own internal logic and rules, but it seems there's the cultural bias you described in the video that perceive anything different from the norm in foreign movies as 'unrealistic' and 'immersion-breaking.'
@@echelon2k8 I guess there's at least an element of cultural bias. Check out any highly stylised action scenes from wuxia movies like Hero, Red Cliff, or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. You'll find comments like "Man, Chinese movies are exaggerated" or "Chinese action doesn't make sense" or "Chinese movies are just propaganda." Similar thing with Japanese cult movies.
It's more a conflict of expectations. Since Wuxia is a Chinese sub genre of fantastic/mythological stories most people in e.g. the West don't know that genre exist. Because of the otherwise historic make up they expect a historic movie. In the past decade or two the expectation has been an ever growing demand of authenticity and realism (down to whether certain sword types were used back then or if the fencing is based on teachings from that period). When you then get fantasy elements freely mixed into it or the historic arms and armor being unrealistic, it makes them consider it unrealistic. Even if we compare Wuxia with direct fantasy I would say Western fantasy is based on western fairy tales and thus a concrete internal logic how things work and Wuxia obviously does not follow the Western logic but its own. I would say for both audience the issue is that it is unrealistic and immersion breaking because they are confronted with a different narrative vocabulary they haven't learnt, (yet). It is the entire reason I like foreign films. Once you watch a couple you start to see e.g. certain things are cultural idioms or how humour is supposed to work or that certain story lines is how the hero story is supposed to be. But you don't know that out of the box.
@@mangalores-x_x That's a great write up. There are some points that I want to bring up. Even in Western semi historical movies like 300, King Arthur, Troy, Robin Hood, there are varying degrees of fantasy elements and exaggerations. Robin Hood's archery skill is otherworldly, and King Arthur receives Excalibur from Lady of the Lake. In this sense, Western fairy tales can be also equally weird with their internal logic. Like Monty Python once quipped: "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government." Then you have weird folklores like a house on top of a rotating giant chicken foot, or an immortal who store his heart inside a series of nested objects. Western audience tend to accept these as the fantastic fairy tale/mythological elements and/or artistic licenses, but they expect semi historical movies from other countries to be more realistic. I agree that different narrative vocabulary is a big issue here, but sometimes there are also those biases or expectations on 'foreign' (i.e. non-Anglosphere) movies to be weird and immersion breaking.
Demanding that the general western audience accepts the internalised logic of eastern films is arrogant, and, well, demanding. Can we not have our own cultural expectations, like everyone else?
The point is that "weirdness" is almost a constant in cinema, but westerners usually not notice it when it shows up in a film produced by their culture, and also conflate a film's weirdness with its "foreignity", as if a bunch of American drivers suddenly bursting into dance in a musical was more believable than a bunch of Turkish people doing exactly the same
I'm Indonesian. Trust me... Revenge of the Southern Sea is considered "Make Sense" for Indonesian audience. We tend to believe more in mystical elements in film, very different than Westerners who believe more on science and technology
Maybe it sounds quite silly to you guys, but to me Lady Terminator was the cultural poster child of Soeharto era. The movie really showed the Indonesian ideal values during his reign, or at least for the urban population anyway. I mean, just look at those Western looking actors, the hairstyles, attires etc. Soeharto's "New Order" era is the peak of Westernization for a lot of Indonesians. The bureaucrats worshipped the Western model of development, the urban people loved Western consumer culture and the academics were obsessed with modernization theories. Hell, my father was bullied by his pals just because he refused to wear cutbray back then. Also, that vulgar depiction of Kanjeng Ratu Kidul (Queen of Southern Sea) is quite interesting. IMO, only the modernist, secular-nationalist, anti-adat (tradition) New Order folks have the guts to portray the incumbent metaphysical ruler of Java in such an obscene manner! As a Javanese, I'm not the supporter of Ratu Kidul and her decadent rule, but there's no way in hell I'll portray her as a nymphomaniac she-demon even in creative medium such as this! Don't get me wrong, I'm not salty or anything, sometimes I'm just amazed with my fellow countrymen's (usually city dwelling Jakartans) daring edginess, casual ignorance and even offensive mockery toward others' sacred traditions.
@@baabaaer I'm not sure either. Maybe they copied Terminator because they loved that movie. I guess profit wasn't a sole reason for the decision, it's because Terminator wasn't that popular in Indonesia back then as far as I know/remember. If you are wondering about the strong female protagonist trope, I believe the flick tried to create a secular version of Kanjeng Ratu Kidul. I'll say it again, urban middle-class Indonesians during the New Order era loved the Western-secular order, thus the creative people among them tried to "upgrade" or replace the traditional myths with the ones more relevant for the modern age. About the Ratu Kidul, you see, her rule causes the female or feminine dominance in Javanese cultural order since the New Mataram period. These dominant feminine cultural values, norms and expressions are quite radically different to the previous masculine ones. I mean, just look at the hyper-masculine Arya Penangsang folklore of the pre-Mataram era. All Javanese kings since Panembahan Senapati until today were and are spiritually married to Kanjeng Ratu Kidul. The Queen plays the active role as the absolute ruler of New Mataram Java, while her spouses are merely her passive earthly administrators. If we study the symbolic and spiritual meanings of Bedhaya Ketawang dance plus several others sacred Javanese processions since the founding of New Mataram, you'll understand the Queen's total domination of today Javanese courts and their subjects. That's why the revivalist movements are growing like mad nowadays, these people suggest that all previous Javanese orders are thousand times better than the incumbent one. More and more people is longing for the second coming of ancient Chiefdom of Ki Lurah Semar Badranaya, the rule of the Jago (trickster or scheming heroes such as Airlangga, Ken Arok, Raden Wijaya, Gadjah Mada, Bhre Wirabhumi, Girindrawardhana, etc) or the Sufistic Order of Wali Sanga (Nine Saints of Java). In spiritual and cultural sense, anything is better than the reign of Ratu Kidul-Mataram alliance.
@@Tekiruru I don't know why Prabowo and/or contemporary national politics of Indonesia have anything to do with the distinct socio-cultural order of Soeharto's era. Regarding Jokowi vs Prabowo election feud, I honestly don't think one group is better or has better moral integrity than the other one. Maybe on personal level, Jokowi is a better person than Prabowo, at least he isn't a human rights violator or something like that. But several politicians in his inner circle are definitely as problematic as Prabowo, if not more ruthless and vicious than that old populist. I'll mention just two names for brevity's sake: Wiranto and Luhut Pandjaitan. Indeed, I rank Wiranto as spotty as Prabowo, his past records can be easily found in the internet so I won't indulge him much longer. Luhut Pandjaitan on the other hand, is much much worse than Prabowo IMO. I mean, the man was the one pulling the triggers for almost all Kopassus black ops back then Those mass graves in Timor, Aceh, etc must be the handiwork of some commanding officers in the field yes? And we know how Luhut loves his field actions even until today. Also, his corporations' business ethics are not too different from VOC (Dutch East India Company) IMO. Just watch the documenter Sexy Killers guys, it shows us a tiny sliver of Indonesian elites' exploits and their methods of operation in extractive business alone. Democracy in Indonesia is just an illusion of choice, it doesn't really matter which team wins the elections. Team Jokowi and Team Prabowo, both of them are filled with legitimised criminals we call politicians, not every single one of course, but vast majority of them. My personal perspective of Indonesia's history is still damn same after all these years (not the history of Nusantara mind you with all those Indianized kingdoms, Spice-trading sultanates, and all that jazz). My working conclusion is that Indonesian state was built by dreamers and heroes, but it is raised and fed by Preman. Additions: ... but it is raised and fed by Preman, why do I use the present tense? It's because as a modern nation-state, Indonesia is not achieved maturity yet IMO. Indeed, physically it is an adult, but its mind is still akin to indecisive, edgy teen with inferior complex. About the heroes stuff, Hatta, Agus Salim, Sjahrir etc were definitely heroes IMO, Soekarno was deeply flawed in several aspects, he also made controversial decisions and epic failures. Indeed I mean bad decisions such as whole Konfrontasi debacle, kickstarted Presidential decree 5 July '59 thus ushering the era of Demokrasi Terpimpin or the "Old Order" with Soekarno's cult of personality at its helm, etc. But in the eyes of nationalist, and from the narrative of our national mythos, he is portrayed as Indonesia's greatest hero. Sorry for the long reply, it's just my personal opinion about things. I can change my position in the future if I find better arguments, or if I realise that I made fatal mistakes, especially regarding important facts about the elites, Indonesian history and contemporary political events.
@@Tekiruru not this again damn it. The election is over. Twice, or even thrice if you count ahok - anis. It's f* over. Don't you people has anything else to do?
I wasn't entirely on board from the start, but I get your point. I often recommend old Russian films to people, and it gets really frustrating seeing them desperately try to find the anti-communist / anti-capitalist angle in each, seeking the differences or "foreignness" in each instead of the commonalities.
It’s so frustrating when you only know one thing about an author, you want to read that one thing into whatever they publish. When that one thing is a stereotype or generality it becomes a problem.
I remember when I was getting into anime as a teenager, there were so many listicles about how capital-W Weird some anime were on premise alone. The idea of ~Oh Japan!~ Was a common one for casual anime watchers and non-fans alike, and it ended up being a great disservice to great shows that have some supernatural elements like Fruits Basket, which I wanted to avoid on account of them being apparently Weird. To summarize a line from Red of Overly Sarcastic Productions: there's a common kids show episode where the characters shrink down and go into the body of another character, we have no ground to speak here
In french we have two terms to talk about bad movies. "Navet" who means turnip, it is a movie where nothing is good, and the litteral gilm support should be melt (in soup) to re use his chemicals. And we have the term "narnar", who means nothing originally except sounding like a uneducated peasant talking, and that is kinda the spirit, having something tough, unperfect, but that still please you and kinda keep touchs you deep in heart. A "nanar" is a bad movie, because budget, horrible playing, bad scenario etc, that you love and enjoy. Sometimes (mostly) just to laugh about it, or sometimes just because he touches you, as a very clumsy lover can win your heart.
Sometimes a movie is weird becaus it is weird, but sometimes a movie is perfectly normal to people who understand the cultural context, but weird for everbody else. Cultures are different, and that shows in their approach of filmmaking. People who aren't familiar with the culture will often see it as weird. And this kind of weirdness is a result of the movie being from a different culture That isn't neccesarrily a bad thing though. It just means it is different from what they are used to. And I think that "I don't know/understand this, therefor it's weird for me" is a perfectly fine observation. And since foreign films have a higher chance of being perceived as "weird" because they come from a cultural background the viewer isn't familiar with. So the conclusion "foreign films are weird" is more like "On average, they are seen as being weirder" and not "all foreign films are always super weird" That doesn't mean there aren't movies that are just weird to everyone, regardless of cultural context. "This is weird, because it's a culture I don't undestand" and "This is weird, becaus it's a weird movie" are two different things and shouldn't be confused.
I dunno, when I saw all the people spontaneously burst into song and dance in La La Land I thought that was pretty weird. Your main point still stands, though.
I thought La La Land was weird because i came in expecting it to be a musical, but then after throwing 3 songs consecutively in the beginning it turned into a regular non-musical film for the rest of the story. Only near the end did they add the impromptu audition song but that's it. It was really strange to see a musical where a large portion of the story didn't have any musical numbers. La la land just seemed part-musical to me
@Abhijeet Kundu Just because a movie wins a bunch of Oscars doesn't mean that everyone has to like it. I for one hate musicals and find them way too cheesy to take serious so Les Misérables probably wouldn't be up my alley.
Sherina Adventure or Petualangan Sherina, is Indonesia musical movie with children as the target audience. It is a very good musical movie in my opinion.
how old were you in 1989? it was exist. i already graduated from high school and i knew it exist. the indonesian actress was yurike pastika, she was sexy actress that time. many movies around the mid 80's produced with western actor/actress most notably cynthia rothrock after she was succeccfull in hongkong movies. this movie might had different cut with what released in indonesia. there were also rumour, i had not seen foreign cut yet, that ayu azhari did very hot scene with western actros (not famous one) in one of indonesian movies...but indonesian version the scene was very tame.
Wow you understand Indonesian films more than real Indonesians. And it is true that Lady Terminator becomes weird thanks to the US distributor that funds this as well, they want cheap 80s action films that was hit at that time and don't really care with the plot that Indonesian director offers. Meanwhile Indonesians are restricted with foreign novies up to the late 80s and yet they are obsessed with action and sometimes sexual film so the educated director can just copy paste famous films and inserted it in their story. I actually want to give suggestions. Portrayal of Chinese historical figure in modern film. Take Chiang Kai Shek, in Founding of a Nation, although he is the antagonist, they still show him has a competence and also has thoughts. Meanwhile in Founding of the Army, Chiang Kai Shek is portrayed as extremely corrupt, stupid (Like making Soong May Ling take decisions) and only show him dancing or in his office with the same boring evilness. I think it's an interesting comparisson.
I an so glad I found this channel, just finished writing a paper on ladybird spider conservation. These videos are the perfect way to relieve stress lol
As a Norwegian I don't expect foreign films to be weird best because they're foreign; since most films are. Though I do actually expect Norwegian films to be somewhat weird, because they often are. At least the big productions tends to be quite weird in some aspects.
Might also be intentional. If you can't win an audience by money, bc of Hollywood/Disney&Co., might as well try to be more weird than the others. It's cheaper and more likely to be successful for your budget.
I subscribed because it's obvious you are an intelligent individual and you're trying to open people's minds to different cultures and that's something that I appreciate. Thank you for showing me how women in cinema that were Chinese were very great women. Thank you for showing me Chinese animation. What you're doing is bringing us all together and I have to say thank you for that
You know, when you say "foreign film", I think of Hollywood, not non-Hollywood lol. BTW, the correct translation of the Indo film is Mystery of South Sea Queen.
I think a lot of times people call things "weird" (even as a compliment) because they don't know how else to describe it. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes, especially when I try to explain a cult movie or b-movie to my normie friends lol.
The point is associating "weirdness" with being a "foreign film". Lady Terminator is a weird film because of it's content, not because it's a indonesian film
Yeah, I don't see how calling a movie weird is an issue. Many movies are weird, and those same movies can be fantastic movies. Take famous anime movies like Spirited Away, there's a lot of scenes in that movie we could classify as weird, doesn't mean it's not an all time great movie, or that its "weirdness" detracts from it.
It's not spitting hairs. It's pretty simple. Calling things "weird" on the *basis that they are foreign* is not a good thing. That's it. Weird is almost never positive lets not kid ourselves. A new kid being called weird in school on the basis of being foreign isn't going to take it as a compliment. In terms of rhetoric means to separate what is "normal" "permissible" "right" from what is "abnormal" "unacceptable" "wrong". Also this happens regardless of your intentions. I'm not saying that's how it *should be* but instead that these are just the facts about language and rhetoric.
As much as I appreciate the point about weirdness being ubiquitous in cinema and not an inherent property of foreign films, I'd also say that appreciating a foreign film for what makes it strange and incomprehensible to you as a foreign observer is a valid and entertaining way to consume media. You can appreciate the humor of the "exoticness" of a work of art, i.e., its features you don't understand due to lack of cultural context, without necessarily fetishizing or otherizing cultures with tastes different from your own. Sometimes it is fun to be confused and to acknowledge that this confusion is due to a difference between your culture and another without disparaging that culture.
Yeah I love Accented Cinema but YMS proved boyond any doubt that the plagiarism claims are baseless. I guess the myth will continue as long as people remain uneducated about it.
The original title for this film is Misteri Pusaka Laut Selatan or Mystery of Heirloom from the Southsea. Apparently the film was so controversial at that time and they forced to re-edit the entire film
You bring up some good points about Hollywood is seen as the standard to us and everything else as an aberration of sorts. Like, we think Bollywood movies are TOO LONG or TOO SLOW. But that's because we accept the typical Hollywood pace and length as standard.
Thank you for showing me more about your culture. Keep doing what you're doing we all need to learn about each other and thank you sir putting this up I now have an understanding You're doing a great job informing individuals over here in America and I appreciate it
As someone who used to work at Blockbuster, there are quite a few non-Anglophone movies that I wanted to recommend to customers, but usually people would say either “I don’t want to read my movies “or “these films seem too weird“. I just want to tell him that Hollywood and the English language aren’t necessarily “normal“. They’re quite a few great movies that I got to watch as an American that were in other languages (such as “Amelie” and “Y tu mamá también”). I just wish people would listen to other movies in other languages other than your own.
I love the way you said it: "Its not weird, its just kind of sad." I can't help but think that's what a lot of creators would think if they saw a rip off or fanfiction of their works.
Thinking something is weird is simply a matter of opinion. So telling people to stop calling something weird is pointless. I understand your point, and pretty much would agree with it. I just think we shouldn't bother with telling people what they should and shouldn't say.
I'll agree with you on all points, except a few Japanese movies. Japan specifically invented a few weird things that nobody else does. On the other hand there is definitely plenty of western movies that are completely insane.
@@rocket_sensha4337 American media is more than capable of being weird. Ever watch Mr. Robot? Eraserhead? Napolean Dynamite? Kaiju is weird to the US because they didn't grow up on Godzilla. Similarly, I bet Japanese people find a movie like Requiem for a dream extremely disturbing because drug addiction isn't as prevalent in Asia. Japan might have outlandish weird shit that is unique to their culture, but America has enough weird cultural norms that nobody can really replicate. For example, meta hollywood stuff like Being John Malkovich.
@@christianhuang9673 i know! I'm not, american :p (americas but bah) and endeed a lot of stuff coming from there that is still simply outlandish to me. Each one has a diferent "weirdness" acording to its cultural background.
8:46 I think that's an additional important point. Not only do we take our own culture as the default, but we also tend to assume that anything we see from a foreign culture is actually representative of that culture, even if from their perspective it is meant as an obvious exaggeration or fantasy.
You got a new subscriber (found you thru the j horror vids). Your videos are aaace and I hope you build subscriber base as you continue. I can tell you have a depth of knowledge on parts of cinema iv never been exposed to (mainly dabble in japanese horror, shinya tsukamoto is my fave director). So i look forward to what you do in the future!
I like how you explain how it’s not our (mostly Americans but other westerners too) fault, and that we are simply brought up this way due to Hollywood being such an overbearing presence
It's just the overall quality is abhorrent in some 'foreign' films, which puts me off into thinking "How did they even think to put this out on the market, so weird" :P
4:28 it has bin proven that Disney didn't copy kimba and that it wasnt influenced buy it in anyway shape or form. YMS made video on this topic and i recommend it.
No really it's a complete ripoff, when I was a kid I watched kimba first, then when I was 10 I saw the Lion King, I was so confused and kept asking mom why kimba is not white here... It depends on what you saw first, no matter how much people argue it's not the same watching it with a child eyes and mind still gives you the same vibe and plot line. I feel like people are only defending it because of childhood memories, so as most people who watched kimba the white lion first are defending kimba.
@@coffeewithextrasuga1017 Is not a ripoff. Watch YMS video about it, he lays down all the evidence and proves the point beyond any reasonable doubt. The video is over two hours long, but well worth watching. th-cam.com/video/G5B1mIfQuo4/w-d-xo.html
That reference to Bollywood and _LA Story_ reminded me of David O’Sullivan’s 2009 short film _Moore Street Masala,_ in which the conventions of Bollywood take place in Dublin’s oldest market on Moore Street. It’s very consciously genre-bending but in an engaging way.
I’ve had people I love call me weird and I subconsciously never forgive it. Films are an attempt to connect. Making something different is good. Okay, another wonderful video.
I think you have some good points. I find it kinda limiting to call films "foreign" by doing so it makes the works of hollywood usa "normal". It's leads to small mindedness. Probably a better terms is International Cinema. On another note I saw your J-Horror video & I was hoping you mention Battle Royale. Anyways keep up the good work
Hey, can you do a video about Philippine Cinema? I have been watching your videos and loved how you focused so much on Asian Cinema, but noticed you haven't created any film essays about Philippine cinems. Thanks!
I'm honestly fine with films borrowing ideas from each other if they do add something new. Art is a collaborative process. The problem. Is capital. It's not always in your best monetary interest to be a part of that process.
Having watched both Paprika and Inception, their common elements are simply surrealism, and barely line up or constitute a significant part of either film. Their themes, plots and most of their visuals are radically different. It's possible that Nolan watched Paprika and was in some way inspired by it, but the resemblance is loose enough that it's really hard to assert that with any confidence. As for Kimba, I always heard people parroting that Lion King ripped it off and while I didn't really care I think I believed it too, but there was this over-two-hour takedown of that theory uploaded a little over a year after you posted this th-cam.com/video/G5B1mIfQuo4/w-d-xo.html Anyway, I think the "weird foreign film" phenomenon doesn't suggest they're weird because they're foreign, it's saying that because they're foreign we are less likely to have heard of them and seen them already. They're weird because they're weird.
I like the sentiment of this video but some movies are simply "weird", let's be honest. Funky Forest is weird, it's meant to be weird. "Weird" doesn't have to be bad though. I love many weird movies.
Great video, but may I provide a little more depth to the argument. Let's say that we showed get out in another country which only tangentially understands race issues in the United states. They might think it's weird or not fully understand the complexities of the subtext. The same can be said of the American viewer. I, for an example, did not know about the rise of suicides in Japan that inspired the golden age of J-horror. That context, though simple enough, helps explain aspects of the famous films that I simply did not know. Art is not made in a vacuum, and anything without propper social context can seem "Weird"
It's obvious you're a scholar on top of practicing filmmaking, like me. More grease to your elbow in continuing the good work you have started. Peace!
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Great video! I feel you could say the same about acting as well. Acting in East Asian cinema (especially Japanese cinema) seems exaggerated to a lot of Westerners, so those movies get ridiculed for being "weird". But in the cultural context of Japan, where most people are strongly discouraged from expressing their emotions frankly, it can be a cathartic experience for audiences to watch actors sob or scream or shriek with laughter. Obviously, not all East Asian cinema is like that, but people really single out the foreign films that do have "overacting", while happily ignoring overacting in their domestic media. I mean, look at melodrama in soap operas, stone cold monologues in police procedurals, or over the top quipping in action films. None of that shit is realistic, but we are trained to suspend disbelief.
You make some excellent points. In addition to those, I also feel that calling non-American films as "foreign" films gives cinema a default American perspective which is kinda sad for me. I think it's because of the Academy Awards having a special "best foreign film" category but they do so because they're an American award shows. For general purposes, we shouldn't use the term foreign films for non-american films. Just my 2 cents.
Everything is foreign from a perspective. I mean I watch more Hollywood films than Bollywood but I still know it's foreign. I find some aspects of Kannada cinema "foreign" even though my parents relish them( they know the lingo. I don't). For example the recent spate of suicide after Punith Kumar's death both amused and horrified me, but my parents were like .. yeah that's expected.
Came in here expected to be knocked over the head with a video calling everything rascist. Instead you have a good message, robust argumentation, excellent examples and fresh insights. I'm legitimately stunned, will definitely check out some of the foreign movies you mentioned and I definitely rung that bell. Great work.
This is the most unbiased film channel on TH-cam. Unlike those channels run by wannabe "film critics" who claim to know everything about cinema with their half baked knowledge and shitting on films other than Hollywood. It's frustrating to see Hollywood monopolizing world cinema. And to all those "film critics" picking on indian cinema , I would like to say that bollywood is part of Indian cinema and not "indian cinema" as a whole . India has three big film industries , bollywood/hindi cinema Kollywood/Tamil cinema and tollywood/ Telugu cinema. Western nations may not like our movies, but we will keep making movies as per our culture and won't conform to western orientalism. And guess what.....indian cinema is very loved in middle East and asian countries.
But I'll still say that Lady Terminator is weird. As an Indonesian, I would even say the film is weird. The film was made during the decline of our national cinema era.If you know, the film was indeed made to satisfy the tastes of western audiences who like Asian "mystic exoticism". That's why you can see a Caucasian acting in an Indonesian film. The actress was indeed recruited because she can speak English and that is again to strengthen Western audience judgment against mostly every asian nation that is considered exotic, but left behind. The myth about the queen of the south relating to men who want their own power is a relatively new myth. The myth arose because of the loss of power of the Javanese rulers over the north coast of Java to the Dutch VOC. Javanese power then shifted to the south coast and to strengthen the legitimacy of the rulers against the people,Then a myth is made that the Javanese rulers have a relationship like husband and wife to the figure of the southern queen which is actually only a manifestation of how javanese ruler still own the power in south java coast. But the western people only see it as a sex relationship between a man and a beautiful woman. So if you, the western laugh at lady terminator. Well, you laugh at your own culture, because our culture didn't see a south sea queen like that
You are correct when stating that American Movie Studios tend to borrow elements from other Countries Movie Studios. Viewers still prefer them to give credit to the source material. To me it's not Weird. It's just a feeling of.......wait I've seen or heard of that before. Makes it a fun game of going through the files. Jogging one's memory. Making a video essay. Presenting my findings. I agree! Hollywood is not the standard. Theater is! Which all came from the parades and rituals of religious sets. Wanting their congregation to remember the sermon. There was an reenactment. With players acting out roles presented from within the sermon. That was the starting of Theater. In Greek rendition there is Tragedy, and Comedy with a bit of music. Might be dancing. As Theater became popular more elements were added Rome, India, etc Each country it was showcased added their own stamp. From the 1 act, 3 act, or 5 act structures. To actors with music. For others no dialogue just dancers and music. Ballet, Contemporary Dance, Vaudevillian, Oprah, Big Band with Tap and more. It saddens me to see. It took a long time to see mainstream movies with casts. That aren't mostly from one society. When it comes to Mr. Obama, former U.S. President, he is black. Because a long time ago Slave Owners didn't want to have their white children share and inheritance with their 1/2 siblings born from a slave. So the One Drop Rule was instated. If you have a parent that is Black you are Black. If both of your parents are White. Then you are White. Because Black People were not considered humans. There were chattel. And chattel can't inherit. At one point children of White/Black Parents were calling themselves Colored. Then Negro, onto being called Black. Now we are called African Americans. But Black is still used.
@@RonieDoll ENGLISH IS my native language which is why I understand comments I read and NEVER respond: WHAT? Look I know that the weekends are your time to come onto TH-cam grade-schooler, but I am busy and not interested in corresponding with you. If you don't understand my comments then: LEARN English
Oh my God.. I'm as an Indonesian never seen that movie before, clearly a B list movie.. It was quite weird for Indo standard even today, mixing javanese mystical native culture with hollywood story, 80's indo movie era is dominated by sexual movie exploit
The south sea queen film is so Indonesian. It's weird (I mean cool) because it mixed the west thing and Indonesian supernatural myth so well, dark and full of action.
It's interesting that one of Kurosawa's influences was the Westerns of John Ford, so Leone making a Western based on a Kurosawa film was influence coming full circle. I get your point about "weird" for purposes of this video, but give the viewer some credit for being more sophisticated than that. Foreign films are always in any cinephiles' Top 10 list.
Great essay and discussion on our biases on what's "Normal" and what's not. It's a shame since hollywood can be weird but we don't really feel that way because movies outside of hollywood tend to be weirder and worse than hollywood. The best movies other than hollywood is probably Korean, Japanese and Western European and even then they can't even compete with hollywood Also Lady Terminator is bad, critics always like weird movies regardless, they love trashy or boring movies for some reason but great movies like in the MCU, Deadpool, Logan, John Wick, James Bond, etc don't get the love Bad movies are just bad regardless of where they are, pretty sure The Raid was amazing
In general I agree with this assessment of the perception of what is a "Hollywood film" and a "foreign film" is. There is definitely this "foreign film" perception. But it also depends who has this perception, the native English speakers or speakers of other languages because in my opinion a lot of films that aren't associated with Hollywood and are made in a non-English speaking market those film's producers and directors also perceive their films as full of attempt to imitate and copy "Hollywood films". This is especially true starting in the 90s IMO. Before the film makers of France and Italy were known for making good movies. In case of Japan it was specifically one director, Kurosawa. But even before that movies became associated with the English speaking world after their invention and introduction to society by inventors in America. So that particular detail also tends to make English speaking movies as standard. Additionally how movies are perceived as "foreign" or "non foreign" or a "rip off" vs "original" is also parallel to flow of culture which at this point in time mostly coming North America and Europe. The movies go along because they are reflections on culture and part of culture.
I didnt knew the origin of the movie at all from the title of it, but then there is the scene where the terminator lady watch the portrait of southern sea goddess. In instance I now remember the movie, its the movie from my childhood back in early 90s that I have to watched its heavily censored version for free on some kind of drive-in theater usually held by cigarette company for promotion purpose of their latest product. Its a nostalgia and a weird one to be honest.
Never title your video with a commanding title, especially one you think your audience may not hold as a majority. Most especially if your specifically targeting the very people who certainly will contrast with the viewpoint your expressing or implying as the correct one. You start them off already feeling defensive and annoyed at the insinuation they are wrong. There are many more suggestive ways to lead people on to a genuine talk like this on film analysis like this. Kill us softly.
way across the point lol, he is saying, it's fine if you think the movie is weird after you watch the movie as a whole, but the mentality to avoid is FOREIGN(outside hollywood) movie = instant WEIRD
@@BerryBabaBear When you encounter something outside of your comfort zone, it is weird. Just because people call a film weird doesn't mean they're decrying it. They're simply pointing put an obvious truth. By virtue of this video.
@@CCootauco it's true it is a common sense, but one can only say that particular movie out of he/she comfort zone AFTER seeing it right? Just like the other day i was gonna show my workmate a funny indian movie, right of the bat he's saying "nah indian movie are weird" BEFORE even watched it. So i can relate point shown in this vid, nowadays ppl using western movie as standard to even began accepting to watch a type of film, not based by content, but by countries, kinda sad actually.
Very intresting point of view, i'll bring you the experience from my country: we are used to hollywood cinema, but still, after more than a century of mixing our cultures when an action movie comes we call it "americanata" wich may be considered a way to call it weird, and i'm talking for the original terminator too.
I think for me cultural difference and "wierdness" is about the uncanny valley. Things are just different enough that they seem weird but understanding things from a mythical point of view points back to common origins in humanity and nature that all filmmakers draw on. It's like how we get various accounts of the cataclysmic flood in ancient texts. The differences are important, because they suggest fundamental differences in worldview, but they don't come from different worlds, just different perspectives. Filmmakers draw on similar tools to say similar things but the slight differences that make them similar and not the same pushes them just to the edge of that valley. We recognize it as a movie with a theme we could imagine but from a perspective just different enough to make us feel uneasy. When people come to different conclusions about the same world and those conclusions are just on the horizon of what we normally experience we are mutually in limnal points on each other's worldview.
Glad to inform you, finally Lady Terminator movie (original title The Revenge of the South Sea Queen) will get a remake by the director of Headshot and The Night Comes for Us , Timo Tjahjanto.
Very interesting hypothesis. As an australian I notice how other countries see us differently and assume we run by a different clock. Our cinema exploits this by making ultra outback movies and act like thats how we all are.
I used to believe that Hollywood movie is the default of how.movie should be although I am ok with Cantonese and P.Ramlee's movie. But that perspective totally change when I watch A Silent Voice. I know it's an animation but it open me to more different films from other regions.
My anthropology teacher once said, "all culture is weird, because culture is what tricks us into thinking there are things that are normal."
"You cannot speak without an accent any more than you can type without a font." Great quote, my man. Made me stop and think...
My accent is untraceable though. :p
@@ElBandito Simply not true.
@@Voingous they probably just speak some dialect-twinged standard english variety like a lot of folk who say that do.
Bad movies are bad regardless of their national origin.
Stupid peoples are stupid regardless of their national origin
@@tsar_zo8007 ooooff!!
Part of growing up is realize, Timmy from next door isn't stupid. Everyone, including myself, is stupid.
I'm an equal opportunist.
@@AccentedCinema And this is the class I was talking about! :)
*oh hai mark*
When I see Lady Terminator, I don't think "weird foreign movie", I think "1980s schlock".
same
Omg I love that word: "Schlock"😊
@@oscarclaudio2848 Peak 1980s Schlock is Crying freeman and Mad Bull 34
Yeah, if you didn't tell me that was Indonesian I wouldn't even realise it wasn't Hollywood schlock.
Yes. Some audience complain when characters in wuxia movies display superhuman feats like jumping to the roof or gliding, yet they don't bat an eye at the exact same feats in Western superhero or fantasy movies. Both wuxia and superhero genre have their own internal logic and rules, but it seems there's the cultural bias you described in the video that perceive anything different from the norm in foreign movies as 'unrealistic' and 'immersion-breaking.'
Is it really a bias or is it more just the unfamiliarity with the logic behind it? You know, the "foreign" element?
@@echelon2k8 I guess there's at least an element of cultural bias. Check out any highly stylised action scenes from wuxia movies like Hero, Red Cliff, or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. You'll find comments like "Man, Chinese movies are exaggerated" or "Chinese action doesn't make sense" or "Chinese movies are just propaganda."
Similar thing with Japanese cult movies.
It's more a conflict of expectations. Since Wuxia is a Chinese sub genre of fantastic/mythological stories most people in e.g. the West don't know that genre exist. Because of the otherwise historic make up they expect a historic movie. In the past decade or two the expectation has been an ever growing demand of authenticity and realism (down to whether certain sword types were used back then or if the fencing is based on teachings from that period).
When you then get fantasy elements freely mixed into it or the historic arms and armor being unrealistic, it makes them consider it unrealistic.
Even if we compare Wuxia with direct fantasy I would say Western fantasy is based on western fairy tales and thus a concrete internal logic how things work and Wuxia obviously does not follow the Western logic but its own.
I would say for both audience the issue is that it is unrealistic and immersion breaking because they are confronted with a different narrative vocabulary they haven't learnt, (yet). It is the entire reason I like foreign films. Once you watch a couple you start to see e.g. certain things are cultural idioms or how humour is supposed to work or that certain story lines is how the hero story is supposed to be.
But you don't know that out of the box.
@@mangalores-x_x That's a great write up. There are some points that I want to bring up.
Even in Western semi historical movies like 300, King Arthur, Troy, Robin Hood, there are varying degrees of fantasy elements and exaggerations. Robin Hood's archery skill is otherworldly, and King Arthur receives Excalibur from Lady of the Lake.
In this sense, Western fairy tales can be also equally weird with their internal logic. Like Monty Python once quipped: "Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government." Then you have weird folklores like a house on top of a rotating giant chicken foot, or an immortal who store his heart inside a series of nested objects. Western audience tend to accept these as the fantastic fairy tale/mythological elements and/or artistic licenses, but they expect semi historical movies from other countries to be more realistic.
I agree that different narrative vocabulary is a big issue here, but sometimes there are also those biases or expectations on 'foreign' (i.e. non-Anglosphere) movies to be weird and immersion breaking.
Demanding that the general western audience accepts the internalised logic of eastern films is arrogant, and, well, demanding. Can we not have our own cultural expectations, like everyone else?
But some American action movies are really weird to me, you can not change that.
The point is that "weirdness" is almost a constant in cinema, but westerners usually not notice it when it shows up in a film produced by their culture, and also conflate a film's weirdness with its "foreignity", as if a bunch of American drivers suddenly bursting into dance in a musical was more believable than a bunch of Turkish people doing exactly the same
At least we make original movies, or at least we *used* to
TEMPLAR KNIGHT which country doesn’t?
@@mocuishle3519 unironicaly China, Accented even made a video about that
+Sylvie Rose
They make plenty of them.
I'm Indonesian. Trust me... Revenge of the Southern Sea is considered "Make Sense" for Indonesian audience. We tend to believe more in mystical elements in film, very different than Westerners who believe more on science and technology
Maybe it sounds quite silly to you guys, but to me Lady Terminator was the cultural poster child of Soeharto era.
The movie really showed the Indonesian ideal values during his reign, or at least for the urban population anyway.
I mean, just look at those Western looking actors, the hairstyles, attires etc.
Soeharto's "New Order" era is the peak of Westernization for a lot of Indonesians.
The bureaucrats worshipped the Western model of development, the urban people loved Western consumer culture and the academics were obsessed with modernization theories.
Hell, my father was bullied by his pals just because he refused to wear cutbray back then.
Also, that vulgar depiction of Kanjeng Ratu Kidul (Queen of Southern Sea) is quite interesting.
IMO, only the modernist, secular-nationalist, anti-adat (tradition) New Order folks have the guts to portray the incumbent metaphysical ruler of Java in such an obscene manner!
As a Javanese, I'm not the supporter of Ratu Kidul and her decadent rule, but there's no way in hell I'll portray her as a nymphomaniac she-demon even in creative medium such as this!
Don't get me wrong,
I'm not salty or anything, sometimes I'm just amazed with my fellow countrymen's (usually city dwelling Jakartans) daring edginess, casual ignorance and even offensive mockery toward others' sacred traditions.
I am more surprised that she is made a Terminator. I mean, what the?
About the genital cutting...is this foreshadowing prabowo??
@@baabaaer I'm not sure either.
Maybe they copied Terminator because they loved that movie.
I guess profit wasn't a sole reason for the decision, it's because Terminator wasn't that popular in Indonesia back then as far as I know/remember.
If you are wondering about the strong female protagonist trope, I believe the flick tried to create a secular version of Kanjeng Ratu Kidul.
I'll say it again, urban middle-class Indonesians during the New Order era loved the Western-secular order, thus the creative people among them tried to "upgrade" or replace the traditional myths with the ones more relevant for the modern age.
About the Ratu Kidul, you see, her rule causes the female or feminine dominance in Javanese cultural order since the New Mataram period.
These dominant feminine cultural values, norms and expressions are quite radically different to the previous masculine ones.
I mean, just look at the hyper-masculine Arya Penangsang folklore of the pre-Mataram era.
All Javanese kings since Panembahan Senapati until today were and are spiritually married to Kanjeng Ratu Kidul.
The Queen plays the active role as the absolute ruler of New Mataram Java, while her spouses are merely her passive earthly administrators.
If we study the symbolic and spiritual meanings of Bedhaya Ketawang dance plus several others sacred Javanese processions since the founding of New Mataram, you'll understand the Queen's total domination of today Javanese courts and their subjects.
That's why the revivalist movements are growing like mad nowadays, these people suggest that all previous Javanese orders are thousand times better than the incumbent one.
More and more people is longing for the second coming of ancient Chiefdom of Ki Lurah Semar Badranaya, the rule of the Jago (trickster or scheming heroes such as Airlangga, Ken Arok, Raden Wijaya, Gadjah Mada, Bhre Wirabhumi, Girindrawardhana, etc) or the Sufistic Order of Wali Sanga (Nine Saints of Java).
In spiritual and cultural sense, anything is better than the reign of Ratu Kidul-Mataram alliance.
@@Tekiruru I don't know why Prabowo and/or contemporary national politics of Indonesia have anything to do with the distinct socio-cultural order of Soeharto's era.
Regarding Jokowi vs Prabowo election feud, I honestly don't think one group is better or has better moral integrity than the other one.
Maybe on personal level, Jokowi is a better person than Prabowo, at least he isn't a human rights violator or something like that.
But several politicians in his inner circle are definitely as problematic as Prabowo, if not more ruthless and vicious than that old populist.
I'll mention just two names for brevity's sake: Wiranto and Luhut Pandjaitan.
Indeed, I rank Wiranto as spotty as Prabowo, his past records can be easily found in the internet so I won't indulge him much longer. Luhut Pandjaitan on the other hand, is much much worse than Prabowo IMO.
I mean, the man was the one pulling the triggers for almost all Kopassus black ops back then
Those mass graves in Timor, Aceh, etc must be the handiwork of some commanding officers in the field yes?
And we know how Luhut loves his field actions even until today.
Also, his corporations' business ethics are not too different from VOC (Dutch East India Company) IMO.
Just watch the documenter Sexy Killers guys, it shows us a tiny sliver of Indonesian elites' exploits and their methods of operation in extractive business alone.
Democracy in Indonesia is just an illusion of choice, it doesn't really matter which team wins the elections.
Team Jokowi and Team Prabowo, both of them are filled with legitimised criminals we call politicians, not every single one of course, but vast majority of them.
My personal perspective of Indonesia's history is still damn same after all these years (not the history of Nusantara mind you with all those Indianized kingdoms, Spice-trading sultanates, and all that jazz).
My working conclusion is that Indonesian state was built by dreamers and heroes, but it is raised and fed by Preman.
Additions:
... but it is raised and fed by Preman, why do I use the present tense?
It's because as a modern nation-state, Indonesia is not achieved maturity yet IMO.
Indeed, physically it is an adult, but its mind is still akin to indecisive, edgy teen with inferior complex.
About the heroes stuff,
Hatta, Agus Salim, Sjahrir etc were definitely heroes IMO, Soekarno was deeply flawed in several aspects, he also made controversial decisions and epic failures. Indeed I mean bad decisions such as whole Konfrontasi debacle, kickstarted Presidential decree 5 July '59 thus ushering the era of Demokrasi Terpimpin or the "Old Order" with Soekarno's cult of personality at its helm, etc. But in the eyes of nationalist, and from the narrative of our national mythos, he is portrayed as Indonesia's greatest hero.
Sorry for the long reply, it's just my personal opinion about things.
I can change my position in the future if I find better arguments, or if I realise that I made fatal mistakes, especially regarding important facts about the elites, Indonesian history and contemporary political events.
@@Tekiruru not this again damn it. The election is over. Twice, or even thrice if you count ahok - anis. It's f* over. Don't you people has anything else to do?
I wasn't entirely on board from the start, but I get your point. I often recommend old Russian films to people, and it gets really frustrating seeing them desperately try to find the anti-communist / anti-capitalist angle in each, seeking the differences or "foreignness" in each instead of the commonalities.
It’s so frustrating when you only know one thing about an author, you want to read that one thing into whatever they publish. When that one thing is a stereotype or generality it becomes a problem.
I remember when I was getting into anime as a teenager, there were so many listicles about how capital-W Weird some anime were on premise alone. The idea of ~Oh Japan!~ Was a common one for casual anime watchers and non-fans alike, and it ended up being a great disservice to great shows that have some supernatural elements like Fruits Basket, which I wanted to avoid on account of them being apparently Weird. To summarize a line from Red of Overly Sarcastic Productions: there's a common kids show episode where the characters shrink down and go into the body of another character, we have no ground to speak here
In french we have two terms to talk about bad movies.
"Navet" who means turnip, it is a movie where nothing is good, and the litteral gilm support should be melt (in soup) to re use his chemicals.
And we have the term "narnar", who means nothing originally except sounding like a uneducated peasant talking, and that is kinda the spirit, having something tough, unperfect, but that still please you and kinda keep touchs you deep in heart.
A "nanar" is a bad movie, because budget, horrible playing, bad scenario etc, that you love and enjoy. Sometimes (mostly) just to laugh about it, or sometimes just because he touches you, as a very clumsy lover can win your heart.
Sometimes a movie is weird becaus it is weird, but sometimes a movie is perfectly normal to people who understand the cultural context, but weird for everbody else.
Cultures are different, and that shows in their approach of filmmaking. People who aren't familiar with the culture will often see it as weird. And this kind of weirdness is a result of the movie being from a different culture
That isn't neccesarrily a bad thing though. It just means it is different from what they are used to.
And I think that "I don't know/understand this, therefor it's weird for me" is a perfectly fine observation. And since foreign films have a higher chance of being perceived as "weird" because they come from a cultural background the viewer isn't familiar with. So the conclusion "foreign films are weird" is more like "On average, they are seen as being weirder" and not "all foreign films are always super weird"
That doesn't mean there aren't movies that are just weird to everyone, regardless of cultural context.
"This is weird, because it's a culture I don't undestand" and "This is weird, becaus it's a weird movie" are two different things and shouldn't be confused.
Exactly as I thought. Agree 💯
Ultraman is a weird series
yes I'm bringing up ultraman in a 1 year old comment, sue me
I dunno, when I saw all the people spontaneously burst into song and dance in La La Land I thought that was pretty weird. Your main point still stands, though.
@Sorrious Sad grease?
They copied Bollywood... Most of those movies are similar kind of musicals.
I thought La La Land was weird because i came in expecting it to be a musical, but then after throwing 3 songs consecutively in the beginning it turned into a regular non-musical film for the rest of the story. Only near the end did they add the impromptu audition song but that's it. It was really strange to see a musical where a large portion of the story didn't have any musical numbers. La la land just seemed part-musical to me
@Abhijeet Kundu Just because a movie wins a bunch of Oscars doesn't mean that everyone has to like it. I for one hate musicals and find them way too cheesy to take serious so Les Misérables probably wouldn't be up my alley.
Sherina Adventure or Petualangan Sherina, is Indonesia musical movie with children as the target audience. It is a very good musical movie in my opinion.
I don't even know there is such movie, btw i'm Indonesian
Dilarang katany
Banned
I don't know too
@@epg96 Pantes
how old were you in 1989? it was exist. i already graduated from high school and i knew it exist. the indonesian actress was yurike pastika, she was sexy actress that time. many movies around the mid 80's produced with western actor/actress most notably cynthia rothrock after she was succeccfull in hongkong movies. this movie might had different cut with what released in indonesia. there were also rumour, i had not seen foreign cut yet, that ayu azhari did very hot scene with western actros (not famous one) in one of indonesian movies...but indonesian version the scene was very tame.
Wow you understand Indonesian films more than real Indonesians. And it is true that Lady Terminator becomes weird thanks to the US distributor that funds this as well, they want cheap 80s action films that was hit at that time and don't really care with the plot that Indonesian director offers. Meanwhile Indonesians are restricted with foreign novies up to the late 80s and yet they are obsessed with action and sometimes sexual film so the educated director can just copy paste famous films and inserted it in their story.
I actually want to give suggestions. Portrayal of Chinese historical figure in modern film. Take Chiang Kai Shek, in Founding of a Nation, although he is the antagonist, they still show him has a competence and also has thoughts. Meanwhile in Founding of the Army, Chiang Kai Shek is portrayed as extremely corrupt, stupid (Like making Soong May Ling take decisions) and only show him dancing or in his office with the same boring evilness. I think it's an interesting comparisson.
Ifan Ramadhana Much better if it’s basically about depictions of historical figures in film.
"Humans are weird."
You got my respect, yes, we are totally weird.
"Mockbusters" aka, "Let's try and confuse somebody's near-sighted granny into buying this as a gift."
i think my grandmother would buy it to troll me even if she were all-seeing
I an so glad I found this channel, just finished writing a paper on ladybird spider conservation. These videos are the perfect way to relieve stress lol
Just found your channel.
Loved it.
-Indian here
As a Norwegian I don't expect foreign films to be weird best because they're foreign; since most films are. Though I do actually expect Norwegian films to be somewhat weird, because they often are. At least the big productions tends to be quite weird in some aspects.
Might also be intentional.
If you can't win an audience by money, bc of Hollywood/Disney&Co., might as well try to be more weird than the others. It's cheaper and more likely to be successful for your budget.
@Zute New Zealand comedies are awesome. What We Do in the Shadows is hilarious, and I saw another horror-comedy that was great too.
The TV shows from Nordics are actually weird.
I subscribed because it's obvious you are an intelligent individual and you're trying to open people's minds to different cultures and that's something that I appreciate.
Thank you for showing me how women in cinema that were Chinese were very great women. Thank you for showing me Chinese animation.
What you're doing is bringing us all together and I have to say thank you for that
You know, when you say "foreign film", I think of Hollywood, not non-Hollywood lol.
BTW, the correct translation of the Indo film is Mystery of South Sea Queen.
Or 'Mysterious Inheritance of the South Sea Queen'.
Haha same, and basically 99% of the films I watch are foreign to me, because movies from my country are rarely any good.
same lol. Everyone here thinks of Hollywood whenever someone says "foreign cinema" since we're not America/Europe.
I think a lot of times people call things "weird" (even as a compliment) because they don't know how else to describe it. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes, especially when I try to explain a cult movie or b-movie to my normie friends lol.
Splitting hairs, "weird" is not necessarily a negative attribute. Lady Terminator is weird relative to most other films.
The point is associating "weirdness" with being a "foreign film". Lady Terminator is a weird film because of it's content, not because it's a indonesian film
Yeah, I don't see how calling a movie weird is an issue. Many movies are weird, and those same movies can be fantastic movies. Take famous anime movies like Spirited Away, there's a lot of scenes in that movie we could classify as weird, doesn't mean it's not an all time great movie, or that its "weirdness" detracts from it.
@pastal Andrey Tarkovsky
@pastal david lynch yeeeaah
It's not spitting hairs. It's pretty simple. Calling things "weird" on the *basis that they are foreign* is not a good thing. That's it. Weird is almost never positive lets not kid ourselves. A new kid being called weird in school on the basis of being foreign isn't going to take it as a compliment. In terms of rhetoric means to separate what is "normal" "permissible" "right" from what is "abnormal" "unacceptable" "wrong". Also this happens regardless of your intentions. I'm not saying that's how it *should be* but instead that these are just the facts about language and rhetoric.
As much as I appreciate the point about weirdness being ubiquitous in cinema and not an inherent property of foreign films, I'd also say that appreciating a foreign film for what makes it strange and incomprehensible to you as a foreign observer is a valid and entertaining way to consume media. You can appreciate the humor of the "exoticness" of a work of art, i.e., its features you don't understand due to lack of cultural context, without necessarily fetishizing or otherizing cultures with tastes different from your own. Sometimes it is fun to be confused and to acknowledge that this confusion is due to a difference between your culture and another without disparaging that culture.
YMS recently debunked the Lion King being a rip-off of Kimba the White Lion.
Great video. Long as all hell
Wait, I heard that the lion king was based of Hamlet...
Yeah I love Accented Cinema but YMS proved boyond any doubt that the plagiarism claims are baseless. I guess the myth will continue as long as people remain uneducated about it.
As I always tell people: Weird is relative. And if you've ever met my relatives... 😊
The original title for this film is Misteri Pusaka Laut Selatan or Mystery of Heirloom from the Southsea. Apparently the film was so controversial at that time and they forced to re-edit the entire film
Very interesting and thoughtful video. I'm looking forward to going through the rest of your content
You bring up some good points about Hollywood is seen as the standard to us and everything else as an aberration of sorts. Like, we think Bollywood movies are TOO LONG or TOO SLOW. But that's because we accept the typical Hollywood pace and length as standard.
Or how western people always call Indian movies "musicals" when they clearly don't work the way a Hollywood musical does.
Thank you for showing me more about your culture. Keep doing what you're doing we all need to learn about each other and thank you sir putting this up I now have an understanding
You're doing a great job informing individuals over here in America and I appreciate it
4:30 Oh lord, I can hear YMS screaming from afar already.
My first thought rewatching this.
A completely understandable reaction.
As someone who used to work at Blockbuster, there are quite a few non-Anglophone movies that I wanted to recommend to customers, but usually people would say either “I don’t want to read my movies “or “these films seem too weird“. I just want to tell him that Hollywood and the English language aren’t necessarily “normal“. They’re quite a few great movies that I got to watch as an American that were in other languages (such as “Amelie” and “Y tu mamá también”). I just wish people would listen to other movies in other languages other than your own.
I love the way you said it: "Its not weird, its just kind of sad." I can't help but think that's what a lot of creators would think if they saw a rip off or fanfiction of their works.
Man I love your videos you deserve more subscribers than you have
I'm Indonesian, and i'm surprise this channel talk about Indonesian movie
Thanks 👍
Thinking something is weird is simply a matter of opinion. So telling people to stop calling something weird is pointless. I understand your point, and pretty much would agree with it. I just think we shouldn't bother with telling people what they should and shouldn't say.
I'll agree with you on all points, except a few Japanese movies. Japan specifically invented a few weird things that nobody else does.
On the other hand there is definitely plenty of western movies that are completely insane.
Japan its on the kaiju level of weirdness. And that's not a bad thing!
@@rocket_sensha4337 American media is more than capable of being weird. Ever watch Mr. Robot? Eraserhead? Napolean Dynamite? Kaiju is weird to the US because they didn't grow up on Godzilla. Similarly, I bet Japanese people find a movie like Requiem for a dream extremely disturbing because drug addiction isn't as prevalent in Asia. Japan might have outlandish weird shit that is unique to their culture, but America has enough weird cultural norms that nobody can really replicate. For example, meta hollywood stuff like Being John Malkovich.
@@christianhuang9673 i know! I'm not, american :p (americas but bah) and endeed a lot of stuff coming from there that is still simply outlandish to me. Each one has a diferent "weirdness" acording to its cultural background.
@@christianhuang9673 there's a tag in hentai called "Eye fucking" and "Ear fucking"
you can guess what it's about
8:46 I think that's an additional important point. Not only do we take our own culture as the default, but we also tend to assume that anything we see from a foreign culture is actually representative of that culture, even if from their perspective it is meant as an obvious exaggeration or fantasy.
You got a new subscriber (found you thru the j horror vids). Your videos are aaace and I hope you build subscriber base as you continue.
I can tell you have a depth of knowledge on parts of cinema iv never been exposed to (mainly dabble in japanese horror, shinya tsukamoto is my fave director). So i look forward to what you do in the future!
I like how you explain how it’s not our (mostly Americans but other westerners too) fault, and that we are simply brought up this way due to Hollywood being such an overbearing presence
It's just the overall quality is abhorrent in some 'foreign' films, which puts me off into thinking "How did they even think to put this out on the market, so weird" :P
Just found your channel, watched a few of your videos and subscribed! Great content!
- From Mexico
4:28 it has bin proven that Disney didn't copy kimba and that it wasnt influenced buy it in anyway shape or form. YMS made video on this topic and i recommend it.
No really it's a complete ripoff, when I was a kid I watched kimba first, then when I was 10 I saw the Lion King, I was so confused and kept asking mom why kimba is not white here... It depends on what you saw first, no matter how much people argue it's not the same watching it with a child eyes and mind still gives you the same vibe and plot line. I feel like people are only defending it because of childhood memories, so as most people who watched kimba the white lion first are defending kimba.
@@coffeewithextrasuga1017 Is not a ripoff. Watch YMS video about it, he lays down all the evidence and proves the point beyond any reasonable doubt. The video is over two hours long, but well worth watching. th-cam.com/video/G5B1mIfQuo4/w-d-xo.html
That reference to Bollywood and _LA Story_ reminded me of David O’Sullivan’s 2009 short film _Moore Street Masala,_ in which the conventions of Bollywood take place in Dublin’s oldest market on Moore Street. It’s very consciously genre-bending but in an engaging way.
I’ve had people I love call me weird and I subconsciously never forgive it. Films are an attempt to connect. Making something different is good. Okay, another wonderful video.
I think you have some good points. I find it kinda limiting to call films "foreign" by doing so it makes the works of hollywood usa "normal". It's leads to small mindedness. Probably a better terms is International Cinema.
On another note I saw your J-Horror video & I was hoping you mention Battle Royale.
Anyways keep up the good work
Hey, can you do a video about Philippine Cinema? I have been watching your videos and loved how you focused so much on Asian Cinema, but noticed you haven't created any film essays about Philippine cinems. Thanks!
Really enjoy your essays, thanks for your work!!
I'm honestly fine with films borrowing ideas from each other if they do add something new. Art is a collaborative process. The problem. Is capital. It's not always in your best monetary interest to be a part of that process.
This is great! Great analysis on perception and culture
Having watched both Paprika and Inception, their common elements are simply surrealism, and barely line up or constitute a significant part of either film. Their themes, plots and most of their visuals are radically different. It's possible that Nolan watched Paprika and was in some way inspired by it, but the resemblance is loose enough that it's really hard to assert that with any confidence.
As for Kimba, I always heard people parroting that Lion King ripped it off and while I didn't really care I think I believed it too, but there was this over-two-hour takedown of that theory uploaded a little over a year after you posted this th-cam.com/video/G5B1mIfQuo4/w-d-xo.html
Anyway, I think the "weird foreign film" phenomenon doesn't suggest they're weird because they're foreign, it's saying that because they're foreign we are less likely to have heard of them and seen them already. They're weird because they're weird.
LOL the sea queen's disappearance is really funny xD
Art is subjective as there is somthing in movie industry for everyone's liking
Thank you for making this one as well.
What a fantastic video, well done!
I like the sentiment of this video but some movies are simply "weird", let's be honest. Funky Forest is weird, it's meant to be weird. "Weird" doesn't have to be bad though. I love many weird movies.
Great video, but may I provide a little more depth to the argument. Let's say that we showed get out in another country which only tangentially understands race issues in the United states. They might think it's weird or not fully understand the complexities of the subtext. The same can be said of the American viewer. I, for an example, did not know about the rise of suicides in Japan that inspired the golden age of J-horror. That context, though simple enough, helps explain aspects of the famous films that I simply did not know. Art is not made in a vacuum, and anything without propper social context can seem "Weird"
That sums it up quite well. I think he didn't explicitly touch on it but it was clear that this is what he was going for as well.
Sorry but with the new research made by Adam at yourmoviesucks it seems that the Lion King is NOT a kimba ripoff
What music do you use as your outro? It is very beautiful.
It's called Jazz Tape by Andrew Huang. You can find it under TH-cam Audio Library.
It's obvious you're a scholar on top of practicing filmmaking, like me. More grease to your elbow in continuing the good work you have started. Peace!
Great video! I feel you could say the same about acting as well. Acting in East Asian cinema (especially Japanese cinema) seems exaggerated to a lot of Westerners, so those movies get ridiculed for being "weird". But in the cultural context of Japan, where most people are strongly discouraged from expressing their emotions frankly, it can be a cathartic experience for audiences to watch actors sob or scream or shriek with laughter. Obviously, not all East Asian cinema is like that, but people really single out the foreign films that do have "overacting", while happily ignoring overacting in their domestic media. I mean, look at melodrama in soap operas, stone cold monologues in police procedurals, or over the top quipping in action films. None of that shit is realistic, but we are trained to suspend disbelief.
You make some excellent points. In addition to those, I also feel that calling non-American films as "foreign" films gives cinema a default American perspective which is kinda sad for me. I think it's because of the Academy Awards having a special "best foreign film" category but they do so because they're an American award shows. For general purposes, we shouldn't use the term foreign films for non-american films. Just my 2 cents.
Everything is foreign from a perspective. I mean I watch more Hollywood films than Bollywood but I still know it's foreign. I find some aspects of Kannada cinema "foreign" even though my parents relish them( they know the lingo. I don't). For example the recent spate of suicide after Punith Kumar's death both amused and horrified me, but my parents were like .. yeah that's expected.
OMG you just opened my eyes! I mean your other videos did too, but omg this one!
Came in here expected to be knocked over the head with a video calling everything rascist.
Instead you have a good message, robust argumentation, excellent examples and fresh insights.
I'm legitimately stunned, will definitely check out some of the foreign movies you mentioned and I definitely rung that bell. Great work.
This is the most unbiased film channel on TH-cam. Unlike those channels run by wannabe "film critics" who claim to know everything about cinema with their half baked knowledge and shitting on films other than Hollywood. It's frustrating to see Hollywood monopolizing world cinema.
And to all those "film critics" picking on indian cinema , I would like to say that bollywood is part of Indian cinema and not "indian cinema" as a whole . India has three big film industries , bollywood/hindi cinema
Kollywood/Tamil cinema and tollywood/ Telugu cinema.
Western nations may not like our movies, but we will keep making movies as per our culture and won't conform to western orientalism. And guess what.....indian cinema is very loved in middle East and asian countries.
thank u but there are more
currently the biggest are
hindi
malyalam
bengali
@@thespemmer6832 nah marathi produced better movies in recent years than Bengali
There are many great film industries you're missing out North Eastern cinema, marathi cinema were indian cinema begins
But I'll still say that Lady Terminator is weird. As an Indonesian, I would even say the film is weird. The film was made during the decline of our national cinema era.If you know, the film was indeed made to satisfy the tastes of western audiences who like Asian "mystic exoticism". That's why you can see a Caucasian acting in an Indonesian film. The actress was indeed recruited because she can speak English and that is again to strengthen Western audience judgment against mostly every asian nation that is considered exotic, but left behind. The myth about the queen of the south relating to men who want their own power is a relatively new myth. The myth arose because of the loss of power of the Javanese rulers over the north coast of Java to the Dutch VOC. Javanese power then shifted to the south coast and to strengthen the legitimacy of the rulers against the people,Then a myth is made that the Javanese rulers have a relationship like husband and wife to the figure of the southern queen which is actually only a manifestation of how javanese ruler still own the power in south java coast. But the western people only see it as a sex relationship between a man and a beautiful woman. So if you, the western laugh at lady terminator. Well, you laugh at your own culture, because our culture didn't see a south sea queen like that
Can someone tell me what happened in the end of lady terminator????
I really want to know now and i cant find it online 🙈
DAMN GOOD ESSAY!!! Thought provoking! I grew up loving foreign (non American origin) films.
Weird means strange, unfamiliar...and everything new can be strange... doesn't mean they are bad by default...great essay
You are correct when stating that American Movie Studios tend to borrow elements from other Countries Movie Studios. Viewers still prefer them to give credit to the source material. To me it's not Weird. It's just a feeling of.......wait I've seen or heard of that before. Makes it a fun game of going through the files. Jogging one's memory. Making a video essay. Presenting my findings.
I agree! Hollywood is not the standard. Theater is! Which all came from the parades and rituals of religious sets. Wanting their congregation to remember the sermon. There was an reenactment. With players acting out roles presented from within the sermon. That was the starting of Theater. In Greek rendition there is Tragedy, and Comedy with a bit of music. Might be dancing. As Theater became popular more elements were added Rome, India, etc Each country it was showcased added their own stamp. From the 1 act, 3 act, or 5 act structures. To actors with music. For others no dialogue just dancers and music. Ballet, Contemporary Dance, Vaudevillian, Oprah, Big Band with Tap and more.
It saddens me to see. It took a long time to see mainstream movies with casts. That aren't mostly from one society.
When it comes to Mr. Obama, former U.S. President, he is black. Because a long time ago Slave Owners didn't want to have their white children share and inheritance with their 1/2 siblings born from a slave. So the One Drop Rule was instated. If you have a parent that is Black you are Black. If both of your parents are White. Then you are White. Because Black People were not considered humans. There were chattel. And chattel can't inherit.
At one point children of White/Black Parents were calling themselves Colored. Then Negro, onto being called Black. Now we are called African Americans. But Black is still used.
No they don't and if it weren't for aocial media exposing the theft Hollywood would never give credit.
@@SnarkierThan-U-R What?
@@RonieDoll Don't start with me, learn English
@@SnarkierThan-U-R Oh English isn't your first language. That makes sense.
@@RonieDoll ENGLISH IS my native language which is why I understand comments I read and NEVER respond: WHAT?
Look I know that the weekends are your time to come onto TH-cam grade-schooler, but I am busy and not interested in corresponding with you.
If you don't understand my comments then: LEARN English
I was not expecting to see "Dünyayı Kurtaran Adam" on this channel of all things.
Oh my God.. I'm as an Indonesian never seen that movie before, clearly a B list movie.. It was quite weird for Indo standard even today, mixing javanese mystical native culture with hollywood story, 80's indo movie era is dominated by sexual movie exploit
The south sea queen film is so Indonesian. It's weird (I mean cool) because it mixed the west thing and Indonesian supernatural myth so well, dark and full of action.
By the way, for you cinephiles, do you remember seeing remnants of Chungking Express ('94) and Fallen Angels ('95) in Amelie ('01)?
Very interesting observation!
This is a really thoughtful piece. Thank you for this.
great video, there's a lot of ways to appreciate cinema from around the world and giving it a fair chance : )
I don’t mind that foreign films are weird. If the tone is consistent throughout, then it’s a lot easier to get invested.
It's interesting that one of Kurosawa's influences was the Westerns of John Ford, so Leone making a Western based on a Kurosawa film was influence coming full circle. I get your point about "weird" for purposes of this video, but give the viewer some credit for being more sophisticated than that. Foreign films are always in any cinephiles' Top 10 list.
@Accented Cinema I was so hoping you would bring out Internal Affairs vs Departed lol
The Departed is a *remake* of Internail Affairs
@@user-cz3qr4vc9k exactly my man
Great essay and discussion on our biases on what's "Normal" and what's not. It's a shame since hollywood can be weird but we don't really feel that way because movies outside of hollywood tend to be weirder and worse than hollywood. The best movies other than hollywood is probably Korean, Japanese and Western European and even then they can't even compete with hollywood
Also Lady Terminator is bad, critics always like weird movies regardless, they love trashy or boring movies for some reason but great movies like in the MCU, Deadpool, Logan, John Wick, James Bond, etc don't get the love
Bad movies are just bad regardless of where they are, pretty sure The Raid was amazing
In general I agree with this assessment of the perception of what is a "Hollywood film" and a "foreign film" is. There is definitely this "foreign film" perception. But it also depends who has this perception, the native English speakers or speakers of other languages because in my opinion a lot of films that aren't associated with Hollywood and are made in a non-English speaking market those film's producers and directors also perceive their films as full of attempt to imitate and copy "Hollywood films". This is especially true starting in the 90s IMO. Before the film makers of France and Italy were known for making good movies. In case of Japan it was specifically one director, Kurosawa. But even before that movies became associated with the English speaking world after their invention and introduction to society by inventors in America. So that particular detail also tends to make English speaking movies as standard.
Additionally how movies are perceived as "foreign" or "non foreign" or a "rip off" vs "original" is also parallel to flow of culture which at this point in time mostly coming North America and Europe. The movies go along because they are reflections on culture and part of culture.
I didnt knew the origin of the movie at all from the title of it, but then there is the scene where the terminator lady watch the portrait of southern sea goddess. In instance I now remember the movie, its the movie from my childhood back in early 90s that I have to watched its heavily censored version for free on some kind of drive-in theater usually held by cigarette company for promotion purpose of their latest product. Its a nostalgia and a weird one to be honest.
it's not weird because it's foreign, it's just weird because it's weird.
Never title your video with a commanding title, especially one you think your audience may not hold as a majority. Most especially if your specifically targeting the very people who certainly will contrast with the viewpoint your expressing or implying as the correct one. You start them off already feeling defensive and annoyed at the insinuation they are wrong. There are many more suggestive ways to lead people on to a genuine talk like this on film analysis like this. Kill us softly.
really enjoy this channel!~
Shit, I'm tired of hearing art school students telling people how-to view media and how to think. Weird is a subjective term.
way across the point lol, he is saying, it's fine if you think the movie is weird after you watch the movie as a whole, but the mentality to avoid is FOREIGN(outside hollywood) movie = instant WEIRD
@@BerryBabaBear
When you encounter something outside of your comfort zone, it is weird. Just because people call a film weird doesn't mean they're decrying it. They're simply pointing put an obvious truth. By virtue of this video.
@@CCootauco it's true it is a common sense, but one can only say that particular movie out of he/she comfort zone AFTER seeing it right? Just like the other day i was gonna show my workmate a funny indian movie, right of the bat he's saying "nah indian movie are weird" BEFORE even watched it. So i can relate point shown in this vid, nowadays ppl using western movie as standard to even began accepting to watch a type of film, not based by content, but by countries, kinda sad actually.
Isn't the yellow track suit in Battle Royal a reference to The Running Man?
Very intresting point of view, i'll bring you the experience from my country: we are used to hollywood cinema, but still, after more than a century of mixing our cultures when an action movie comes we call it "americanata" wich may be considered a way to call it weird, and i'm talking for the original terminator too.
"it wasn't made to be a terminator film"
explains everything
That women called 'Nyi Roro Kidul' , the sea goddes , actually old folks story from Indonesia
I love foreign films tbh but never heard of this
I think for me cultural difference and "wierdness" is about the uncanny valley. Things are just different enough that they seem weird but understanding things from a mythical point of view points back to common origins in humanity and nature that all filmmakers draw on. It's like how we get various accounts of the cataclysmic flood in ancient texts. The differences are important, because they suggest fundamental differences in worldview, but they don't come from different worlds, just different perspectives. Filmmakers draw on similar tools to say similar things but the slight differences that make them similar and not the same pushes them just to the edge of that valley. We recognize it as a movie with a theme we could imagine but from a perspective just different enough to make us feel uneasy. When people come to different conclusions about the same world and those conclusions are just on the horizon of what we normally experience we are mutually in limnal points on each other's worldview.
Hot damn, great video. +1 Sub, keep up the great work.
Glad to inform you, finally Lady Terminator movie (original title The Revenge of the South Sea Queen) will get a remake by the director of Headshot and The Night Comes for Us
, Timo Tjahjanto.
Very interesting hypothesis. As an australian I notice how other countries see us differently and assume we run by a different clock. Our cinema exploits this by making ultra outback movies and act like thats how we all are.
1984 is a weird time my country made that terminator rip off, really hard to believe . 22 years before i exist
I used to believe that Hollywood movie is the default of how.movie should be although I am ok with Cantonese and P.Ramlee's movie. But that perspective totally change when I watch A Silent Voice. I know it's an animation but it open me to more different films from other regions.
5:17 my favorite part where you gloss over how much star wars takes from everything lol good reference
Kimba actually was a good show..