makes me think of..and miss..RetroChad...this guy was absolutely amazing with electronics..buses..cars..organs..and well..everything..and just suddenly stopped making videos..
The L series was made from 1961 to 1970, a spinet model hammond with a self starting motor (unlike the older M series which required 2 switches). If you decide to rebuild this, don't forget the pre-amplifier may need attention as well. I've had several models over the years older and newer than this one, and just about all of the issues with humming were resolved by servicing the pre-amplifier and amplifier. Most console models don't have an amplifier, only preamp, as they don't have internal speakers, but I believe all of the smaller spinet models do. It's amazing the difference a hand full of capacitors and sometimes a few resistors make in these things. Hammond is now Hammond-Suzuki and they still make organs, though nothing sounds quite the same as a real tonewheel organ. You can still buy hammond oil
Yep, it's capacitor time. those old caps definitely are going to be an issue. the rectifier tube looks like it'll soon go as well. the cap job won't be too bad, just make sure all the resistors are doing their job and you, or whoever it is that gets them replaced for them, and it'll be alright. Could take this opportunity to order the caps off Arrow and take advantage of their all-the-time free overnight shipping. so much better than digikey or mouser in that regard. All that and a bit of lube for the motor, make sure it's doing its job, and everything should be right as rain in the amazon. Our church here has an organ from the 70s or 80s they've been doing upkeep on, but they have a professional company come in to do the work. I'm sure that sort of thing doesn't exist too much in the sticks, and I'm sure something like that isn't in the budget for a small church. The one secret I've been told to keeping the organ long running without too many a hitch, when I last asked about it many years ago, is that they keep the volume all the way down and have their own amplifier setup in the next room take care of pushing the sound from it to the overhead speakers above in the rafters. makes less work on the amplification circuits and overall longer life. but we're talking about a bigger three rank organ. the woman that has been running it has been doing so since the organ was new and knows all the little quirks of it, and I can remember it being big news that at one point they were finally able to use the top rank again after something failed. Since then, they've had the company booked once every six months to come in and make sure it's running right. At the very least, it's not a pipe organ with the pipes built into the architechture of the building, like it is with the biggo catholic church in town, of which I've only seen in action a few times in my life and need to walk through since they use the downstairs area as a voting location when it comes to be that time. I wouldn't be able to start wondering what sort of madness would be involved in the upkeep of an organ that needed to drive that.
A congregation I was a member of had a Johannus Organ, made in the Netherlands. It was about 10-15 years old and got real flaky. Sometimes when you turned it on it worked, sometimes it didn't, sometimes it would quit in the middle of the service. The problem was the local firm we bought it from ceased to exist and the only service technician was a few hours away so it was $500 for him to come and work on it. It might work when he showed up it might not. Finally a member who was handy with electronics looked it over and blew out the dust and cleaned some contacts, we rolled a piano in next to the organ and started a new organ fund.
Give the organ a drink of oil per the instructions on the back while you're in there, since who knows when it was done last. Don't forget the motor also; the oiling ports are inside the flip-up tabs on the turrets at each end of the motor. The tone generator funnels are accessible through the big holes cut in the wood above the generator.
I would suspect the Mallory yellow paper capicator is bad dried up. The metal can capicators are probably still good they generally have a high survival rate Sams may have the schematic.
I bought the audio output amp H-AO-43 from a guy off Ebay who had parted out the L-102 organ. Rebuilt the front end input and put in a treb/mid/bass Fender tone stack circuit. Made a great 15W amp. EL84 output push pull, cathode biased.
I don't remember now if it was the first or second video I made about this organ, but in one of them, I felt that I'd gotten there just in time to save the motor. I don't think anyone at the church had any idea that the organ needs periodic oiling.
I'm sorry Bill, I have no words of wisdom on these electronic organs. My expertise are in the theater organs that use pipes. :/ If it has a hum, I'd check the ground. I'm also thinking that these tube types also had an issue if one tube was failing, or had already failed. Either way, I loved the video and look forward to your next video. :)
I'd also like to add that I just got an electronic organ, similar to the functioning one there at the church. Although I've been spoiled with the big sound of the theater pipe organs, this one does sound decent for an older electronic organ. mine is a 1999 Baldwin MCO Tempo 185 (According to the sales receipt in the bench). It was willed to me by the same guy who sold me the 1990 Buick Park Ave I currently own. I know nothing about this organ, except how to play it. I can, however, ask around the organ society and find some info out for you, if you'd like.
From your description, it sounds like a failing filter cap. Any of the paper /wax caps would be suspect for failure, but my money would be on one or both of the can caps. While there are many ways to check their veracity, I like shango066's version of in circuit test, simple and effective. And if it is a can cap, you can order replacements - they are being made again. Just ask D-lab, Uncle Doug, Brad the Guitologist, or any of the other tube guys out there where they buy them. Only deal is, they are very expensive. You can get individual replacement caps for about 1/20th the price of 1 can cap. Do you oil the motor while you had the back off?
Replacement capacitors are so much more compact that I'd simply hide them under the chassis and *maybe* leave the cans in place (but disconnected) for cosmetic reasons. If one's really inclined to do so, the cans can be carefully cut open, the old internals removed, new capacitors installed inside and put back together so they look original. This isn't that rare or valuable of a set, so I don't see the need to go crazy with preserving the original appearance of the amplifier assembly.
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with your first assessment, being as this is an instrument meant to be in long term service. Once all those old, huge, caps are replaced, there'll be quite a bit more room underneath with which to put those extra 3 to 4 caps per can. Hope whomever is chosen to do the work can get it done in a reasonable time frame at a fair price.
That is really good to see it still running after all those years. I still have yet to experience more tube electronics myself since I wasnt born back in those days of tubes.
Hammonds are practically guaranteed to be tonewheel or clonewheel organs as a rule. They were bought out, but some instruments are still being produced under that name. I was hoping this one had separate start and run switches so we could all have a good chuckle watching you attempt to turn it on, but alas, it only has one motor and one switch! You lucked out, sir! Tuning on those instruments is universal because the tonewheels rotate on the same shaft with a synchronized motor and cannot vary in rotational speed one to the other. It's all contingent on the speed of the system, which can be adversely affected by insufficient lubrication in either the motor or the tone generator itself. The tone generator has its own oil trough and a system of wicks that carry oil to the parts that need them by capillary action. (See th-cam.com/video/7Qqmr6IiFLE/w-d-xo.html.) The parts of the TG you thought were for tuning are more likely for per-pitch "equalization," which could be important in rooms with strong resonant frequencies. (That's a pure guess.) Outside of the very complicated TG, Hammonds are ridiculously simple beasts. Definitely stay away from capacitors in the audio generation department, but recapping in the amplifiers and power supply is probably a safe bet. The instrument itself is pretty spare. It has only one set of drawbars per manual, whereas something like a B2/C2 or B3/C3/A105 has two per manual. It also assumes that the instrument would never be used to play organ literature, but only hymns, fairly limited preludes, popular songs, and maybe jazz and rock. As a classically trained organist, layouts like that frustrate me because the offset upper manual assumes that the left hand would never use it. Having only one octave of "stick" pedals assumes that the right foot would stay glued to the "'swell shoe" and never play a single note, when even for modest hymn playing, both feet are needed and the pedals need to be long enough to accommodate playing with both toe and heel (except for the sharps, which are generally toe only). Full-sized pedalklaviers are hinged at the back, under the bench, not at the front, under the console. Now, that said, I wouldn't be ashamed to have a B3 or C3 in my living room as a practice instrument because they have enough playing surface available to cover a good amount of literature. But if I had my pick of toasters to play, I'd pick a 2- or 3-manual Allen made in the last 15 years or build a Hauptwerk virtual organ with a castoff console from a reputable builder like Schlicker, Holtkamp, or Casavant. Of course, nothing beats the sound of an organ that actually breathes. I'd much rather have one of *those* in my living room. Neat video. I'm looking forward to seeing part 2!
Had there been a separate start switch, there _might_ have been some trouble with that. If it was marked as such, I'd have certainly twigged on quickly. But, you see, someone I know very well once told me in an e-mail of their adventures with an organ having a start switch. That was back when the both of us exchanged e-mails very frequently. So even if it wasn't obvious, I was armed with knowledge sufficient to likely get me there. I too figure that recapping the power/amplifier chassis is pretty safe. I was surprised and impressed to see that Hammond was thoughtful enough to provide indications of where each cable was to connect on the power/amplifier chassis. Only that large round plug was in any way ambiguous, since it had no marking nor keying.
Love to see as restoration vid on this! I have my Uncle's 1960's Heathkit organ that he built. It's full of little tone generator boards. It also has a Leslie speaker that has a baffle the rotates. It as well needs to be gone through as it's full of the old style plastic molded caps. It's solid state and did work when plugged it in last. I leave it unplugged as my cats liked to go inside if the cabinet via the volume peddle. That Hammond being all tube has to have a very nice sound to it. I know a lot of audio hobbyists like to salvage the amps from them for Hi-Fi use. I'd hate to see it meet that fate. It would be a large scale task to recap it, but it would be well worth it as the new caps will probably outlast the originals.
Would definitely replace all the caps and check the wiring to Make sure it’s safe. Also I would replace the rectifier tube. It had a big burn on the side. A sign that it may soon die
As far as I know, which isn't much, but there's two Hammond companys. One carries it's legacy of organs and the other is a manufacturing company that makes plastic and metal cases and transformers, seeing as some of their transformers are made for tube equipment, I hazard a guess they may have ties to the old Hammond organ company, although I'm not 100% sure. BTW I have two Hammond M3 organs back at my parents place, one I got from my school that hosted a church before they built their own, and the other was my grandmother's. The school organ is in better shape and it's the traditional brown color. The other organs's amp is beginning to deteriorate. This organ is blonde, and also has a reverb system in it that uses a necklace type spring and a drum machine.
Speaker users can hear it too, as I did while editing. That was the Keykeeper, who in an effort to spend a lot of quality time in the sin bin, was playing with the church's PA system. (Not that I wasn't doing the same between video takes.)
No leslie the vibrato is created by one of the preamps.behind the manuals Replace the start cap next to the motor. You might have to replace the. Filter caps on the main amp on the bottom. The can caps are still available from antique electronic supply. Start motor cap first. It's a start run cap.this organ never needs tuning It runs off a synchronous motor. As long as you're line frequency is right. Voltage. Can be off but frequency has to be good. Those rods are pickups nxt to gears the valley and the teeth of the gears. Create the waveform.
I'm often amazed at how complex an organ is to play with all the pedals, levers, switches and keys there are, I have a hard enough time trying to single-finger a tune on a casio keyboard!! :P
My late grandmother had a Hammond organ from the 70s i learned to play on a lowery heritage she got after and then a coronation. early 90s electronic organs. but this is very neat looking .
hey it's nice the variety of videos you put out, I see your doing more side work now, you still repair computers for your full time job if you don't mind me asking?
Yes, they can turn into resistors when the electrolyte degrades over time. I would check the indirectly heated tubes, too. Just to be sure there is no leakage of the AC heater supply inside the tube.
I think i came to the same conclusion you did, rectifier valve and smoothing capacitors, or condenser for the older engineers out there. Thankfully there were no selenium rectifiers in the psu/amp. So is that motor creating blow or suck and the keys open valves bill?, could be the reason why you had to wait. Nice old unit :-D
The tonewheels generate a small electrical current on a periodic basis as they spin, which is sensed by a pickup within. Each one has a different pattern, thus producing a different tone. Several of these can be switched in, along with passive components, to produce a sound with particular characteristics.
Thankyou bill, now i understand how the generators work, i would imagine that motor rotating them must be synked to the 60hz mains. A very unusual organ, i hope they get it repaired.
That large motor-driven assembly is the tone generator. It's driven by a line-synchronous motor for reference purposes (so long as the powerline frequency is accurate!). Inside, the tonewheels spin at a given rate, introducing current pulses to nearby pickups. As keys on the keyboard are pressed, different combinations of tonewheel pickups are switched on to produce a given type of sound.
@@uxwbill That's really neat, thanks! I love the ingenuity the engineers had in designing all sorts of these really antique "pre-transistor" appliances. These days a cheap keyboard with a single microcontroller does the job. But it's just not the same :P
@@redpheonix1000 The first hammond organ was made in 1935, back then the only possible way to make it sound precisely in tune and have it being reliable was to use electromechanics as the only requirements for the instrument to be in tune was to have all the wheels to be shaped with a precise number of teeth, having a solid transmission system and a motor which will run always at a precise speed as long as the power line frequency is available and precise.
Do you attend that church Bill? It looks like a nice traditional church, small though. My church no longer uses our organ. Our organist started having trouble with Macular Degeneration and is no longer able to play. While I am not particularly partial to the organ I do love to sing hymns and wish we sang a lot more of them. I miss the "Good old Days" when I was a kid when people dressed up to go to church and we sang hymns with the only instruments used being the piano and the organ. Oh how things have changed. One nod to the past that I love in our sanctuary is a large stained glass window front and center.
Yes, at least some of the time. It is a small, extremely rural church that has been around since just after the American Civil War's conclusion. They remain in the same building to this very day. I can only imagine how much different life was back then, and how different the surroundings were. If only that building could talk! The organist at this church has become frail with age, and I'm not sure how much longer they will remain able to play. The "new" organ presented another problem...the music stand was too high for the organist's bifocals to work properly! For now, the organ is playing and behaving as it should. I still plan to replace at least the rectifier tube and large capacitors in the power/audio chassis.
themaritimegirl Early Yes albums with Tony Kaye on keys, Tony Banks early albums with Genesis, too. Wheee! I got an L100 and am working on maintaining it.
The speakers look like they have been replaced sometime in the 90s or early 2000s. Originally they were not powder coated, just bare metal and their membranes look fairly new. The humming may also be a lose ground issue in the amp. Sometimes just resoldering can solve it or finding and replacing a rusty connector.
@@BetamaxFlippy I have a L122 too. Bought it in a garage sale. It's in very good shape, all original, but the sound is very low and faint. I replaced some tubes and cleaned the RCA inputs and connectors, but still the same problem... The volume pedal makes no effect and the pedal drawbar makes a hum when pushed. Any tips on why the sound is so weak?
I'm going to guess filter capacitors. Judging that interference from other devices switching on causes the problem, that'd be my first choice. It's worth mentioning that not all capactiors will go bad in these things - Oftentimes, you'll find televisions out in the California desert that have sat in the elements since the 1960s that need maybe one or two replaced and some contacts cleaned to get them to reliably work again. In this case, it'd be best to test each individual one instead of replace them all, as some of the specific capacitor values simply aren't made anymore or their characteristics have changed enough that they might as well not exist for your purposes. Shango066 would be someone to contact about this, definitely. th-cam.com/video/QQeG50uMtA8/w-d-xo.html
What preserves the wax paper capacitors in sets from dry areas is just that -- the lack of moisture. In more humid parts of the world, the capacitors tend to take on moisture and this eventually shorts them out. It's possible to combine more than one capacitor to get an unusual value, if need be. It's likely that outside of the tone generator, the value of most of its capacitors won't be critical.
I suppose it could be a failing rectifier tube (intermittent short?), or maybe failing caps that are somehow breaking down only under certain conditions (if that's possible). Luckily, I don't think I saw any selenium rectifiers in there (unless they weren't visible on video). Not only can those stink up the place for days when they blow out, but they also become leaky over time (allowing currents to pass backwards across them), as well as increase their voltage drop. On a side note, those Hammond organs (I don't think it was the exact model shown here, but I'm pretty sure it was the same series) were a staple in Emerson, Lake & Palmer's music. Watching Keith Emerson abuse these things (primarily tilting the whole unit back and forth to change the sound from the tonewheel) is kind of amusing...
The tilting only made the spring reverb beat against its case making that "thunder" noise, he changed the pitch by turning the power switch on and off intermittently.
Try first using a good contact cleaner on virtually everything--pull tubes , clean tube plugs, get all pots, just about everything. The main problem is that the tone generator probably needs oil. First run ronsonol lighter fluid through the generator (No joke) There are three cup-like places for oil. Use several drops of singer sewing machine oil in each cup. Really flood it with lighter fluid which cleans it quite well. clean the contacts on the drawbars from inside. Then you can start to look for bad caps.
@Josh Swann Run Ronsol through the oil cups--quite a bit. Say 1/4 of a bottle. Unplug the organ and let it dry for a day. The lighter fluid will clear gunk in the tone generator very well. Then put about six drops of sewing machine oil in each cup and give it a day to get into the tone generator. Use WD-40 contact cleaner (not actual WD-40) on everything else.
Thanx for the useful tips. I have the same model and im trying to restore it to a more reliable state. The percussion section in mine doesn’t work. Any suggestions on where to start ?
I'm a musician and I have fiddled with a few organs in my lifetime. I didn't see whether or not the organ had a rotating speaker...? There's definitely allot of paper capacitors to replace if they were leaky or open.
Being well into pianos as ye prob know Bill. I actually love Organ's aswell. If I was there, I'd have done ol Procol Harum's Whiter Shade of Pale on something like that LOL. Great video bud
uxwbill Some of that old tube stuff has old style wax and paper capacitors which typically go bad bad capacitors cause hum on tube radio's not sure if organ has them might need recap if it has old capacitors.
I was thinking the same thing check the filter capacitor it might be three capacitors in one can. Most times they are in need of being replaced at that age.
Being a Hammond organ, it has some value if working and in decent shape. You might try any online marketplaces serving your part of the world. eBay is also a possibility even if you don't want to ship it. Finally, most thrift stores will take these if you just want rid of it.
As I said, I don't play. I did, however, find that a rendition of Jingle Bells intended for piano in the key of G, transcribed fairly well to the upper manual.
Hey Uxwbill maybe already know this stuff ,but of course I'm sure I'm wrong, but I watched video over that electronic noise your heard was the Leslie motor. It make the sound vibrato waver when keys pressed I heard the motor spin down as you turned power off. Some were electronic however this organ has I believe as I've seen on here a spinning double cone that's belt driven I believe and if you flipped the switch for Leslie or vibrato it would turn that noise off. Hopefully you can fix this classic. Booker T played his famous green onions on one of these Hammond organs but different model..
The motor you hear running drives the tonewheel, which is responsible for producing the actual organ sounds. It is a form of electromechanical oscillator. The vibrato is implemented entirely through electronic means. You can see in the video that there is no provision or room for the two speakers to rotate within the organ.
I was quite surprised at the question raised in the video, about being unsure if it's a tonewheel organ or not. You must have a lot of viewers otherwise because this is a long video about an organ you don't know some pretty basic stuff about. YES that him is from the tone wheels spinning. You definitely don't want to replace those capacitors.The L100 models (L110,111 etc. Same but different trim package) is akin to the M100 series (marketed as the mini B3). The L100 series doesn't have the good analog chorus of the M series. The L series is more rare in the US but prevalent in Europe. It's a later model, but assidr from the chorus, as I understand essentially identical to the M series in large part. EXCEPT, the L series has the highly desirable red capacitors, which hold thier value better. They can be used for a B3 overhaul and I don't think they should be replaced, nor thrown away. Couldn't make it through all the video, but will give some of your other content a look. Lost me quick for a 13 minute organ video and didn't know if you were working with tonewheel or not. Good luck otherwise.
@@uxwbill I get it, and I think I mis spoke earlier, the M100 has a scanning vibrato that is absent from the L100. Nobody is an expert on everything, including myself. We are also free to do whatever we choose, like post a bunch of videos. Sometimes the journey is the point, not so much the destination. Personally I would feel wierd posting up content I didn't without some expertise, or at least had some legwork into. But that hesitation I have is also a negative quality depending on ones perspective. Sorry the the negative nature of my original comment. I am curious, what did those that liked the video like about it? The video has decent circulation, which is impressive to me I light of my original commentary
@@electrichop Hey I just got a L 102. That's what brought m to this video. It turns on, but doesn't make any sounds. It seems the tone wheel is working. I ordered some oil and new tubes. Some of them weren't glowing that much. What else could I do to trouble shoot it? Thanks
@@electrichop As someone who doesn't work on organs daily, I liked the video because it was a neat bit of insight into these things. There's no need to be rude about the video. Some people watch TH-cam videos for entertainment and others watch them for their information.
He meant to refer to the capacitors on the tonewheel generator itself, if they are red plastic case caps they shouldn't go bad and if they did it would be a real pain to find one that matches because they were selected at the factory to go along the windings used as filters underneath them. They almost never need to be changed, all other caps in the instruments should be checked or changed out.
makes me think of..and miss..RetroChad...this guy was absolutely amazing with electronics..buses..cars..organs..and well..everything..and just suddenly stopped making videos..
The L series was made from 1961 to 1970, a spinet model hammond with a self starting motor (unlike the older M series which required 2 switches). If you decide to rebuild this, don't forget the pre-amplifier may need attention as well. I've had several models over the years older and newer than this one, and just about all of the issues with humming were resolved by servicing the pre-amplifier and amplifier. Most console models don't have an amplifier, only preamp, as they don't have internal speakers, but I believe all of the smaller spinet models do. It's amazing the difference a hand full of capacitors and sometimes a few resistors make in these things. Hammond is now Hammond-Suzuki and they still make organs, though nothing sounds quite the same as a real tonewheel organ. You can still buy hammond oil
Yep, it's capacitor time. those old caps definitely are going to be an issue. the rectifier tube looks like it'll soon go as well. the cap job won't be too bad, just make sure all the resistors are doing their job and you, or whoever it is that gets them replaced for them, and it'll be alright. Could take this opportunity to order the caps off Arrow and take advantage of their all-the-time free overnight shipping. so much better than digikey or mouser in that regard. All that and a bit of lube for the motor, make sure it's doing its job, and everything should be right as rain in the amazon.
Our church here has an organ from the 70s or 80s they've been doing upkeep on, but they have a professional company come in to do the work. I'm sure that sort of thing doesn't exist too much in the sticks, and I'm sure something like that isn't in the budget for a small church. The one secret I've been told to keeping the organ long running without too many a hitch, when I last asked about it many years ago, is that they keep the volume all the way down and have their own amplifier setup in the next room take care of pushing the sound from it to the overhead speakers above in the rafters. makes less work on the amplification circuits and overall longer life. but we're talking about a bigger three rank organ. the woman that has been running it has been doing so since the organ was new and knows all the little quirks of it, and I can remember it being big news that at one point they were finally able to use the top rank again after something failed. Since then, they've had the company booked once every six months to come in and make sure it's running right.
At the very least, it's not a pipe organ with the pipes built into the architechture of the building, like it is with the biggo catholic church in town, of which I've only seen in action a few times in my life and need to walk through since they use the downstairs area as a voting location when it comes to be that time. I wouldn't be able to start wondering what sort of madness would be involved in the upkeep of an organ that needed to drive that.
Before you even turned it on, from your description, I was screaming "change the electrolytic filter cap!
A congregation I was a member of had a Johannus Organ, made in the Netherlands. It was about 10-15 years old and got real flaky. Sometimes when you turned it on it worked, sometimes it didn't, sometimes it would quit in the middle of the service. The problem was the local firm we bought it from ceased to exist and the only service technician was a few hours away so it was $500 for him to come and work on it. It might work when he showed up it might not. Finally a member who was handy with electronics looked it over and blew out the dust and cleaned some contacts, we rolled a piano in next to the organ and started a new organ fund.
Give the organ a drink of oil per the instructions on the back while you're in there, since who knows when it was done last. Don't forget the motor also; the oiling ports are inside the flip-up tabs on the turrets at each end of the motor. The tone generator funnels are accessible through the big holes cut in the wood above the generator.
I would suspect the Mallory yellow paper capicator is bad dried up. The metal can capicators are probably still good they generally have a high survival rate Sams may have the schematic.
Checkout Retrochad's channel on his Hammond restoration videos. He shows alot of useful insight into these wonderful organs.
I bought the audio output amp H-AO-43 from a guy off Ebay who had parted out the L-102 organ. Rebuilt the front end input and put in a treb/mid/bass Fender tone stack circuit. Made a great 15W amp. EL84 output push pull, cathode biased.
My late grandma had an organ of the similar vintage, except it had a tape player on the side.
The tape players (more likely a recorder, or possibly both) were a fairly common option.
I have this same model. I recently replaced the main motor due to lack of oiling from previous owner. Thanx for doing this video
I don't remember now if it was the first or second video I made about this organ, but in one of them, I felt that I'd gotten there just in time to save the motor. I don't think anyone at the church had any idea that the organ needs periodic oiling.
The company is now called Hammond Suzuki since 1989 according to wikipedia
I'm sorry Bill, I have no words of wisdom on these electronic organs. My expertise are in the theater organs that use pipes. :/ If it has a hum, I'd check the ground. I'm also thinking that these tube types also had an issue if one tube was failing, or had already failed. Either way, I loved the video and look forward to your next video. :)
I'd also like to add that I just got an electronic organ, similar to the functioning one there at the church. Although I've been spoiled with the big sound of the theater pipe organs, this one does sound decent for an older electronic organ. mine is a 1999 Baldwin MCO Tempo 185 (According to the sales receipt in the bench). It was willed to me by the same guy who sold me the 1990 Buick Park Ave I currently own. I know nothing about this organ, except how to play it. I can, however, ask around the organ society and find some info out for you, if you'd like.
From your description, it sounds like a failing filter cap. Any of the paper /wax caps would be suspect for failure, but my money would be on one or both of the can caps. While there are many ways to check their veracity, I like shango066's version of in circuit test, simple and effective. And if it is a can cap, you can order replacements - they are being made again. Just ask D-lab, Uncle Doug, Brad the Guitologist, or any of the other tube guys out there where they buy them. Only deal is, they are very expensive. You can get individual replacement caps for about 1/20th the price of 1 can cap.
Do you oil the motor while you had the back off?
Replacement capacitors are so much more compact that I'd simply hide them under the chassis and *maybe* leave the cans in place (but disconnected) for cosmetic reasons. If one's really inclined to do so, the cans can be carefully cut open, the old internals removed, new capacitors installed inside and put back together so they look original.
This isn't that rare or valuable of a set, so I don't see the need to go crazy with preserving the original appearance of the amplifier assembly.
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with your first assessment, being as this is an instrument meant to be in long term service. Once all those old, huge, caps are replaced, there'll be quite a bit more room underneath with which to put those extra 3 to 4 caps per can.
Hope whomever is chosen to do the work can get it done in a reasonable time frame at a fair price.
That is really good to see it still running after all those years. I still have yet to experience more tube electronics myself since I wasnt born back in those days of tubes.
Hammonds are practically guaranteed to be tonewheel or clonewheel organs as a rule. They were bought out, but some instruments are still being produced under that name. I was hoping this one had separate start and run switches so we could all have a good chuckle watching you attempt to turn it on, but alas, it only has one motor and one switch! You lucked out, sir! Tuning on those instruments is universal because the tonewheels rotate on the same shaft with a synchronized motor and cannot vary in rotational speed one to the other. It's all contingent on the speed of the system, which can be adversely affected by insufficient lubrication in either the motor or the tone generator itself. The tone generator has its own oil trough and a system of wicks that carry oil to the parts that need them by capillary action. (See th-cam.com/video/7Qqmr6IiFLE/w-d-xo.html.) The parts of the TG you thought were for tuning are more likely for per-pitch "equalization," which could be important in rooms with strong resonant frequencies. (That's a pure guess.) Outside of the very complicated TG, Hammonds are ridiculously simple beasts. Definitely stay away from capacitors in the audio generation department, but recapping in the amplifiers and power supply is probably a safe bet.
The instrument itself is pretty spare. It has only one set of drawbars per manual, whereas something like a B2/C2 or B3/C3/A105 has two per manual. It also assumes that the instrument would never be used to play organ literature, but only hymns, fairly limited preludes, popular songs, and maybe jazz and rock. As a classically trained organist, layouts like that frustrate me because the offset upper manual assumes that the left hand would never use it. Having only one octave of "stick" pedals assumes that the right foot would stay glued to the "'swell shoe" and never play a single note, when even for modest hymn playing, both feet are needed and the pedals need to be long enough to accommodate playing with both toe and heel (except for the sharps, which are generally toe only). Full-sized pedalklaviers are hinged at the back, under the bench, not at the front, under the console.
Now, that said, I wouldn't be ashamed to have a B3 or C3 in my living room as a practice instrument because they have enough playing surface available to cover a good amount of literature. But if I had my pick of toasters to play, I'd pick a 2- or 3-manual Allen made in the last 15 years or build a Hauptwerk virtual organ with a castoff console from a reputable builder like Schlicker, Holtkamp, or Casavant. Of course, nothing beats the sound of an organ that actually breathes. I'd much rather have one of *those* in my living room.
Neat video. I'm looking forward to seeing part 2!
Had there been a separate start switch, there _might_ have been some trouble with that. If it was marked as such, I'd have certainly twigged on quickly. But, you see, someone I know very well once told me in an e-mail of their adventures with an organ having a start switch. That was back when the both of us exchanged e-mails very frequently. So even if it wasn't obvious, I was armed with knowledge sufficient to likely get me there.
I too figure that recapping the power/amplifier chassis is pretty safe. I was surprised and impressed to see that Hammond was thoughtful enough to provide indications of where each cable was to connect on the power/amplifier chassis. Only that large round plug was in any way ambiguous, since it had no marking nor keying.
Love to see as restoration vid on this! I have my Uncle's 1960's Heathkit organ that he built. It's full of little tone generator boards. It also has a Leslie speaker that has a baffle the rotates. It as well needs to be gone through as it's full of the old style plastic molded caps. It's solid state and did work when plugged it in last. I leave it unplugged as my cats liked to go inside if the cabinet via the volume peddle.
That Hammond being all tube has to have a very nice sound to it. I know a lot of audio hobbyists like to salvage the amps from them for Hi-Fi use. I'd hate to see it meet that fate. It would be a large scale task to recap it, but it would be well worth it as the new caps will probably outlast the originals.
Would definitely replace all the caps and check the wiring to Make sure it’s safe. Also I would replace the rectifier tube. It had a big burn on the side. A sign that it may soon die
That is not a burn it is gettor deposit
As far as I know, which isn't much, but there's two Hammond companys. One carries it's legacy of organs and the other is a manufacturing company that makes plastic and metal cases and transformers, seeing as some of their transformers are made for tube equipment, I hazard a guess they may have ties to the old Hammond organ company, although I'm not 100% sure.
BTW I have two Hammond M3 organs back at my parents place, one I got from my school that hosted a church before they built their own, and the other was my grandmother's. The school organ is in better shape and it's the traditional brown color. The other organs's amp is beginning to deteriorate. This organ is blonde, and also has a reverb system in it that uses a necklace type spring and a drum machine.
that 5U4 is about had it. may even be a little gassy. Even though the capacitors are a big issue, That one is gonna cause even more of an issue.
I' pretty sure it's a5y3
My first suspicion is the DC filter cap. Those paper caps are notoriously unreliable.
Headphone users heard a "let me turn the speakers on" being whispered at 3:19
Speaker users can hear it too, as I did while editing. That was the Keykeeper, who in an effort to spend a lot of quality time in the sin bin, was playing with the church's PA system. (Not that I wasn't doing the same between video takes.)
No leslie the vibrato is created by one of the preamps.behind the manuals
Replace the start cap next to the motor. You might have to replace the. Filter caps on the main amp on the bottom. The can caps are still available from antique electronic supply. Start motor cap first. It's a start run cap.this organ never needs tuning It runs off a synchronous motor. As long as you're line frequency is right. Voltage. Can be off but frequency has to be good. Those rods are pickups nxt to gears the valley and the teeth of the gears. Create the waveform.
I'm often amazed at how complex an organ is to play with all the pedals, levers, switches and keys there are, I have a hard enough time trying to single-finger a tune on a casio keyboard!! :P
My late grandmother had a Hammond organ from the 70s i learned to play on a lowery heritage she got after and then a coronation. early 90s electronic organs. but this is very neat looking .
hey it's nice the variety of videos you put out, I see your doing more side work now, you still repair computers for your full time job if you don't mind me asking?
That’s something you don’t see every day, the vacuum tube electrical parts say they were made in Australia, that’s interesting!
Likely needs some caps replaced. Especially any larger and higher voltage caps used for filtering.
Yes, they can turn into resistors when the electrolyte degrades over time. I would check the indirectly heated tubes, too. Just to be sure there is no leakage of the AC heater supply inside the tube.
I think i came to the same conclusion you did, rectifier valve and smoothing capacitors, or condenser for the older engineers out there.
Thankfully there were no selenium rectifiers in the psu/amp.
So is that motor creating blow or suck and the keys open valves bill?, could be the reason why you had to wait.
Nice old unit :-D
The tonewheels generate a small electrical current on a periodic basis as they spin, which is sensed by a pickup within. Each one has a different pattern, thus producing a different tone. Several of these can be switched in, along with passive components, to produce a sound with particular characteristics.
Thankyou bill, now i understand how the generators work, i would imagine that motor rotating them must be synked to the 60hz mains.
A very unusual organ, i hope they get it repaired.
After seeing how it looks inside, I'd love to know how it actually works! How does it make the tones? Etc...
That large motor-driven assembly is the tone generator. It's driven by a line-synchronous motor for reference purposes (so long as the powerline frequency is accurate!). Inside, the tonewheels spin at a given rate, introducing current pulses to nearby pickups. As keys on the keyboard are pressed, different combinations of tonewheel pickups are switched on to produce a given type of sound.
@@uxwbill That's really neat, thanks! I love the ingenuity the engineers had in designing all sorts of these really antique "pre-transistor" appliances. These days a cheap keyboard with a single microcontroller does the job. But it's just not the same :P
@@redpheonix1000 The first hammond organ was made in 1935, back then the only possible way to make it sound precisely in tune and have it being reliable was to use electromechanics as the only requirements for the instrument to be in tune was to have all the wheels to be shaped with a precise number of teeth, having a solid transmission system and a motor which will run always at a precise speed as long as the power line frequency is available and precise.
Lovely old organ, Did you get it fixed ?
Do you attend that church Bill? It looks like a nice traditional church, small though. My church no longer uses our organ. Our organist started having trouble with Macular Degeneration and is no longer able to play. While I am not particularly partial to the organ I do love to sing hymns and wish we sang a lot more of them. I miss the "Good old Days" when I was a kid when people dressed up to go to church and we sang hymns with the only instruments used being the piano and the organ. Oh how things have changed. One nod to the past that I love in our sanctuary is a large stained glass window front and center.
Yes, at least some of the time. It is a small, extremely rural church that has been around since just after the American Civil War's conclusion. They remain in the same building to this very day. I can only imagine how much different life was back then, and how different the surroundings were. If only that building could talk!
The organist at this church has become frail with age, and I'm not sure how much longer they will remain able to play. The "new" organ presented another problem...the music stand was too high for the organist's bifocals to work properly!
For now, the organ is playing and behaving as it should. I still plan to replace at least the rectifier tube and large capacitors in the power/audio chassis.
The L100 is a very famous organ, particularly if you listen to prog rock :P
60s or 70s vintage.
themaritimegirl Early Yes albums with Tony Kaye on keys, Tony Banks early albums with Genesis, too. Wheee! I got an L100 and am working on maintaining it.
Send it to Mr. Carlson's Lab!
That's what I was just about to suggest he's really good at doing Electronics I like mr. Carlson's lab
@@daryls86 I don't think he ever will, but if he comes out with a video on hammond organ parts that's gonna be a very happy day.
The speakers look like they have been replaced sometime in the 90s or early 2000s. Originally they were not powder coated, just bare metal and their membranes look fairly new. The humming may also be a lose ground issue in the amp. Sometimes just resoldering can solve it or finding and replacing a rusty connector.
The speakers are original, both my L122 organs have them like that and they were never redone.
@@BetamaxFlippy I have a L122 too. Bought it in a garage sale. It's in very good shape, all original, but the sound is very low and faint. I replaced some tubes and cleaned the RCA inputs and connectors, but still the same problem... The volume pedal makes no effect and the pedal drawbar makes a hum when pushed. Any tips on why the sound is so weak?
@@Bolation try to play around with the plastic connectors, they're known to be very crappy and could be making no contact
@@BetamaxFlippy Do you mean the rca plugs? If so, I measured them with a multimeter and they all tested good...
no I mean the white plastic plugs that go to the different modules inside the organ, the ones that look like pc connectors
Reach out to ELPaso TubeAmps channel. He is great at recapping and troubleshooting tube amps!
I'm going to guess filter capacitors. Judging that interference from other devices switching on causes the problem, that'd be my first choice.
It's worth mentioning that not all capactiors will go bad in these things - Oftentimes, you'll find televisions out in the California desert that have sat in the elements since the 1960s that need maybe one or two replaced and some contacts cleaned to get them to reliably work again. In this case, it'd be best to test each individual one instead of replace them all, as some of the specific capacitor values simply aren't made anymore or their characteristics have changed enough that they might as well not exist for your purposes.
Shango066 would be someone to contact about this, definitely.
th-cam.com/video/QQeG50uMtA8/w-d-xo.html
What preserves the wax paper capacitors in sets from dry areas is just that -- the lack of moisture. In more humid parts of the world, the capacitors tend to take on moisture and this eventually shorts them out.
It's possible to combine more than one capacitor to get an unusual value, if need be. It's likely that outside of the tone generator, the value of most of its capacitors won't be critical.
did anyone else see that flash of light on the left hand side when uxwbill tapped that cap with the screwdriver?
I think that was his flashlight. You can see the flash again a few seconds later.
That's probably a reflection.
Genuine Hammond!
I suppose it could be a failing rectifier tube (intermittent short?), or maybe failing caps that are somehow breaking down only under certain conditions (if that's possible). Luckily, I don't think I saw any selenium rectifiers in there (unless they weren't visible on video). Not only can those stink up the place for days when they blow out, but they also become leaky over time (allowing currents to pass backwards across them), as well as increase their voltage drop.
On a side note, those Hammond organs (I don't think it was the exact model shown here, but I'm pretty sure it was the same series) were a staple in Emerson, Lake & Palmer's music. Watching Keith Emerson abuse these things (primarily tilting the whole unit back and forth to change the sound from the tonewheel) is kind of amusing...
The tilting only made the spring reverb beat against its case making that "thunder" noise, he changed the pitch by turning the power switch on and off intermittently.
Try first using a good contact cleaner on virtually everything--pull tubes , clean tube plugs, get all pots, just about everything. The main problem is that the tone generator probably needs oil. First run ronsonol lighter fluid through the generator (No joke) There are three cup-like places for oil. Use several drops of singer sewing machine oil in each cup. Really flood it with lighter fluid which cleans it quite well. clean the contacts on the drawbars from inside. Then you can start to look for bad caps.
@Josh Swann Run Ronsol through the oil cups--quite a bit. Say 1/4 of a bottle. Unplug the organ and let it dry for a day. The lighter fluid will clear gunk in the tone generator very well. Then put about six drops of sewing machine oil in each cup and give it a day to get into the tone generator. Use WD-40 contact cleaner (not actual WD-40) on everything else.
Thanx for the useful tips. I have the same model and im trying to restore it to a more reliable state. The percussion section in mine doesn’t work. Any suggestions on where to start ?
I'm a musician and I have fiddled with a few organs in my lifetime. I didn't see whether or not the organ had a rotating speaker...? There's definitely allot of paper capacitors to replace if they were leaky or open.
This organ doesn't have a rotating speaker. Both speakers are stationary.
@@uxwbill ok thanks.
Being well into pianos as ye prob know Bill.
I actually love Organ's aswell.
If I was there, I'd have done ol Procol Harum's Whiter Shade of Pale on something like that LOL.
Great video bud
If they dont want the organ anymore, maybe they could be an organ donor to another church!
Very punny!
That makes a great heater
Not as much s you'd think.
What type of church is this uxwbill
I would be interested in finding out if this church has a website where one can listen to sermons.
No, it does not. It is a very small church.
uxwbill
Some of that old tube stuff has old style wax and paper capacitors which typically go bad bad capacitors cause hum on tube radio's not sure if organ has them might need recap if it has old capacitors.
I was thinking the same thing check the filter capacitor it might be three capacitors in one can. Most times they are in need of being replaced at that age.
I have a box of tubes, and i appear to have a 5U4.
That thing sounds like it's been without oil since the day it was bought.
I wouldn’t be surprised
I need to get rid of a L-102, any help is greatly appreciated
Being a Hammond organ, it has some value if working and in decent shape. You might try any online marketplaces serving your part of the world. eBay is also a possibility even if you don't want to ship it. Finally, most thrift stores will take these if you just want rid of it.
@@uxwbill ok, thanks for the reply and thrift store idea
I'm rather surprised you two did not play that certain sequence one would normally not do in church and yell charge LOL.
As I said, I don't play. I did, however, find that a rendition of Jingle Bells intended for piano in the key of G, transcribed fairly well to the upper manual.
@@uxwbill I know my skills. I would have better luck at recapping the organ than playing it. lol.
oh i love organs!!
Hey Uxwbill maybe already know this stuff ,but of course I'm sure I'm wrong, but I watched video over that electronic noise your heard was the Leslie motor. It make the sound vibrato waver when keys pressed I heard the motor spin down as you turned power off. Some were electronic however this organ has I believe as I've seen on here a spinning double cone that's belt driven I believe and if you flipped the switch for Leslie or vibrato it would turn that noise off. Hopefully you can fix this classic. Booker T played his famous green onions on one of these Hammond organs but different model..
The motor you hear running drives the tonewheel, which is responsible for producing the actual organ sounds. It is a form of electromechanical oscillator. The vibrato is implemented entirely through electronic means. You can see in the video that there is no provision or room for the two speakers to rotate within the organ.
Capacitors for days in that thing.
Do part two
uxwbill
tubes rarely go bad
I was quite surprised at the question raised in the video, about being unsure if it's a tonewheel organ or not. You must have a lot of viewers otherwise because this is a long video about an organ you don't know some pretty basic stuff about. YES that him is from the tone wheels spinning. You definitely don't want to replace those capacitors.The L100 models (L110,111 etc. Same but different trim package) is akin to the M100 series (marketed as the mini B3). The L100 series doesn't have the good analog chorus of the M series. The L series is more rare in the US but prevalent in Europe. It's a later model, but assidr from the chorus, as I understand essentially identical to the M series in large part. EXCEPT, the L series has the highly desirable red capacitors, which hold thier value better. They can be used for a B3 overhaul and I don't think they should be replaced, nor thrown away. Couldn't make it through all the video, but will give some of your other content a look. Lost me quick for a 13 minute organ video and didn't know if you were working with tonewheel or not. Good luck otherwise.
No one is an expert on everything, including yourself. That's something to keep in mind for the next time.
@@uxwbill I get it, and I think I mis spoke earlier, the M100 has a scanning vibrato that is absent from the L100.
Nobody is an expert on everything, including myself. We are also free to do whatever we choose, like post a bunch of videos. Sometimes the journey is the point, not so much the destination. Personally I would feel wierd posting up content I didn't without some expertise, or at least had some legwork into. But that hesitation I have is also a negative quality depending on ones perspective.
Sorry the the negative nature of my original comment. I am curious, what did those that liked the video like about it? The video has decent circulation, which is impressive to me I light of my original commentary
@@electrichop Hey I just got a L 102. That's what brought m to this video. It turns on, but doesn't make any sounds. It seems the tone wheel is working. I ordered some oil and new tubes. Some of them weren't glowing that much. What else could I do to trouble shoot it? Thanks
@@electrichop As someone who doesn't work on organs daily, I liked the video because it was a neat bit of insight into these things. There's no need to be rude about the video. Some people watch TH-cam videos for entertainment and others watch them for their information.
He meant to refer to the capacitors on the tonewheel generator itself, if they are red plastic case caps they shouldn't go bad and if they did it would be a real pain to find one that matches because they were selected at the factory to go along the windings used as filters underneath them. They almost never need to be changed, all other caps in the instruments should be checked or changed out.
@MrCarlsonsLab