I've always used AMD because they were cheaper. They weren't always "better" but I could at least afford it. When Ryzen launched, all the Intel fan-boys were poking fun at the people using AMD. They seemed to have quieted down a bit in the coming years.
Same. I've used only AMDs and Cyrix from back in the day. Intel was too expensive. It's thanks to AMD and Cyrix that my not-rich family could afford pcs. During that time, they were not the fastest or best, but they were stable and gave me wonderful childhood memories. When I bought the Phenom, Phenom II, Sempron and FX, Intel fanboys laughed and said I was too poor to enjoy pcs. Now, am rocking a 5800x3d + 6700xt. I could now afford to buy the highest end parts but would always stick to AMDs. Thanks AMD (and Cyrix).
@djlim4612 my first build was a Cyrix 6x86 166 with 128mb RAM, 3DFX voodoo 1 card with pass through to a STB Vga card and 540mb hard drive. The upgrade from my 386 16mhz was amazing! I couldn't even afford a case to put it in. The mobo just sat on my desk. (Maybe it was 32mb of RAM., it was so long ago)
@@wadz668 haha same CPU! My 1st Cyrix was also the 6x86 p-166+ , but unfortunately it was paired with the abysmal 3d Virge initially. Then I've also replaced it with also the 3DFX Voodoo. Good times. That same CPU is now on display on my shelf. It's a beautiful golden CPU. My next PC was another Cyrix, the M II. I was so sad when Cyrix stopped making cpu.
I built my first custom PC 5 years ago (Ryzen 3600 + RX 580 8GB). It has served me so well that now that I have upgraded, I have stuck with AMD (Ryzen 7950X3D + 7900 XTX) and haven't really considered Intel and Nvidia due to their insane prices. Absolutely no regrets for the couple months I had this build. Love my AMDarling.
I dodged a bullet there, I almost picked Intel because I wanted to get the lga1700 but for some reason I picked the am5 and it gave me the weird vibes about intel so my upgrade path is good to go.
When Intel had the product advantage, it decided to milk the situation. This lead to a laid-back attitude and years of stagnation on the market. All of these years could have been spent on diligent research and product development at max capacity. The resulting deficit still haunts Intel to this date…
Being new-ish to the PC building community/culture, I was unaware of Intel's bullshit, but I can say thank you to the community who advised me to go with AMD for my first build's CPU.
Once the story goes main stream (still seems to be limited to the enthusiast community), no one with any sense is going to buy an Intel based system until confidence returns (two or three years away) so they won't have the cash flow to sustain a recall program either.
@@eg9574 Exactly, the leading hypothesis right now is that the ring bus can't handle the high voltage that the cores need to clock to the advertised speeds. A microcode update could fix that, although potentially at the cost of performance. We simply don't know at the moment.
we already know that high voltages are the issue, the more voltage you push through the chip the more unstable the CPU gets and the faster it degrades. Lower the Voltages to 1.3 to 1.45 V's and the issue is gone. That is what the microcode will fix, but when the CPU already degraded to much the CPU must be RMA'd
The issue is neither bios nor microcode. It's the motherboard manufacturers that crank up the settings to maximize performance. Now, intel is going to release a microcode that will put a hard limit on all these parameters, which should sort out the issue.
600w max draw cpu with only a few percentage gain over a ryzen running at 150w max watt draw 😂 combine that cpu with a 4090, you are drawing out close to 1500w, no one in europe thinks it's worth the electric bills
Intel didn't adapt, and they took short cuts to hit benchmarks that weren't realistic for certain chips causing overheating and other issues. They were trying to keep up with competition without putting in the actual work.
most companies are doing this now, shortcuts to short term profit gains, doing that will lose customer trust eventually as it leads to unreliable lower quality products. Firing 15k employees is also a means to maintain profits short term, but then how are they going to replace the work 15k people contributed, will that result in even lower quality product
After AMD's absolutely BRILLIANT success with the greatest x86 platform ever made (AM4), anyone who STILL bought Intel is a fanboy and deserves what they get. There are ZERO real advantages to Intel CPUs today. They use too much juice and therefore run hot, their platforms are still two-gen until a new motherboard and their CPUs are bloody expensive! When I bought my FX-8350 back in 2012, it wasn't because I thought it would out-perform Ivy Bridge or Devil's Canyon, it was because I was a university student and it was only $170CAD! It also used too much power, ran hot and didn't have anywhere near the performance of an i7 but it was also 1/2 the price of an i5 and 1/3 the price of an i7. If Intel was selling their CPUs for cheap, then I could totally understand why people are still buying them, but they're not. The biggest reason is pure fanboyism.
Its also some companies meat riding their features like intel quick sync which helps with some editing programs while they should not meatride them nor nvidia
If she is actually a good leader, she wouldn't be. She would be, "doubling her efforts," to make sure similar thing doesn't happen to AMD while she's in charge.
@@catsspat That is what Lisa Su is doing. She purposefully delayed Zen 5 launching, and AMD puposefully locked OC settings within the BIOS to push a huge power efficiency gap between Zen 4 and Zen 5. 65W TDP under a full workload is no joke! Good luck having Intel EVER release a 65W CPU that isn't an Intel Celeron. Intel is now a joke.
Just to clarify, Intel originally blamed their motherboard partners and when that didn't fly, they changed to blaming their customers. However I did learn something I didn't know about was Apple's concern with Intel's quality control. Interesting!
I am really surprised by Intel's workforce. They had 100k people and yet were losing to amd with 35k people who is also up against Nvidia's 30k employees and up against Qualcomm's 50k+ employees. Intel is and has been and will be a let down.
The biggest disappointment with Intel is their complete inability to move into anything else. In fact, they're arguably contracting as they sell off divisions over time. For example, Intel once competed with Qualcomm in the cellular modem space but then they sold the division to Apple. Currently they're treading water with graphics and sending out mixed signals to their commitment level, which doesn't inspire confidence. Speaking of contracting, Intel's AI business is *shrinking,* again, somehow. It's like losing money selling shovels during the gold rush.
Intel actually manufactures chips and operates its own fabs. Nvidia, Qualcomm, AMD don’t actually make anything. They just design the chips and have TSMC or Samsung make the products.
*MY RECOMMENDATION...* 1) REFUND your Intel CPU if you can, 2) Replace with an AMD AM5 CPU (and motherboard) 3) sell the Intel motherboard (all the other parts should be compatible) *Will the Microcode actually fix existing CPU's? Do you want to sit there with the UNCERTAINTY that it won't? Will you wonder every time you get an error if it's your CPU failing? Just bite the bullet, swap to AM5 and move on...
Actually Pat has been one of the better decision makers in comparison to all the other CEOs. The hand he was dealt with though is the worst and we are seeing decades of wrongdoing just coming to light
His investments pay off 2027 a bit .. 2030 I can see amazing pay off from these investments that have lead to tough times .. arrow lake also looks amazing out around October
did you forgot the ceo that brougth itanium or the one that said dell is the best friend money can buy? intel does things like this always, it is their natural way pf do things, bring errors and try to make people pay them for such errors
@@OneKyoxsay that papa pat that os moving the company into only fab for others, no new chips as it has always been the plan tells me you dont understand what is comming, and i think you will not lile it
I always shaking my head that friends still by Intel... Nearly every Generation was worse than AMD since 2017... And in all categories: safety, stability, power consumption, heat, performance (this came a bit later with their 3D chips) and price. I run my AMD chips since 486 dx120 and they are stable as hell... I one time switched to Intel and than had a lot of Bluescreens, but since I switched back to AMD in 2016 not a single Bluescreen and wonderful price to performance ratio... The market share should be the opposite - Intel had (sometimes even massive) problems with all their CPUs in the last decade... But still many people think Intel is better
I stopped buying Insmell and never recommended them after what they did to mobo manufacturers after the AMD K7 Athlon was released in 1999. They literally bribed and strong-armed motherboard makers not to produce Slot A boards for the Athlon. When I bought an Asus K7M board for that CPU, it officially came in a plain unmarked white box because of this anticompetitive behavior from Insmell. They just got a slap in the wrist, a few billions $ in fine (which was just 1 quarter's worth of revenue for them back then) from US regulators for that. It has always been a scumbag company, no different from Crapple, M$, nGreedia, Meta, etc.
I first learned about the fundamental design flaw on the io and ringbus around 6 months after the issues where first reported in 13900, seeing Wendel reporting that even the low power 13900T where dying with W680 motherboards really put the proof out there that it wasn't voltages, even though it's a contributing factor. They made space for more E cores and in doing so made it far more fragile. All those affected by this deserve to get a 12900KS for free and the difference paid back in full.
Intel was the one that stagnated CPU development and limited CPUs to 4 cores, until AMD came along and forced them to make 8 cores at reasonable prices. They're also the ones that prevented ECC (error correcting code) memory from being used on consumer PCs for their own profit agenda. They're also the ones that change motherboard socket practically every generation so consumers would be forced to buy a new motherboard with their new CPUs. Despite their unsavory practices they nonetheless has introduced themselves as a potential competitor in the GPU market which is in bad need of some competition. Considering how sparse competition is in the CPU space as well, having one less competitor in the CPU market is going to be a bad thing if Intel goes down.
After the ARC graphics cards and now this degrading issue I can't trust intel at all. They are just throwing any piece of junk at us they can and hoping we don't complain.
That's more of an apple to oranges comparison; ARC was a brand new product line, and teething issues are to be expected. Yes there drivers were terrible at launch, but Radeon's drivers also had tons of issues early on. And Intel did improve there drivers by leaps and bounds in the last year; and I haven't heard of any permanent damage or failures with ARC. Now the CPU problem are definitely something to be concerned with, particularly how long they knew about the problems and said/did nothing. Makes me glad I've leaned Ryzen the last few years.
I mentioned to my local PC builder I was thinking about building a new rig, and he pushed me hard into Intel, I mentioned the various JZ2C videos and he showed me a box full of dead Ryzens, yet I haven't really heard much about dead Ryzens all over the place. I guess he must get much better profit margins on Intel builds.
Well, at least I'm not using anything that's affected, but this is definitely something I'm going to remember and keep in mind, let's hope AMD actually takes advantage of this and price things decently
Intel spent too long unchallenged on top of the mountain, when AMD actually started sorting their act out Intel could have either got it together or hoped that their loyal army of fanboys would support them. They chose the later and now Intel & their minions are paying the price.
Apple have been working on their own silicon plans for years, they have changed like 4 times their CPU architectures. I am not an apple fan at all, but they have a smart business plan in making it all in house, so they can control the entire platform, and have made their products like a brand as must have like the high-end fashion labels, if you want to be cool, you need to pay more!
Definitely would be monopoly concerns with AMD if they did actually collapse. I think I recall hearing Intel helped bail AMD put to avoid the risk of being a monopoly, so I wouldn’t be surprised if someone lends them a credit like if it really gets bad
As long the share value is above 13$ it won't the moment it falls below hold of it's decreasing as diminishing rate gold if at increasing rate straight up pull back Btw the NVDIA share growth rate can't be valued the way you said it split into smaller parts even though it's over valued you can charge the growth on Google finance it's half of the times 20 miñ slower then not very accurate if you take before split it's like double the growth rate. @@blags2 Shares are over valued the growth is under valued after split
Less susceptible to happen on the 13600k or 14600k which i have, my recommendation is to use Intel settings but then again if until now you had zero issues your cpu seems to be ok and has probably not been affected by the oxidation issue of the early 13th gen.
Im wondering. Didnt Bidens office ran something like a chips act? Really curious how thats gonna hold up since the company lost over -48,80% stock in 6 months time..
AMD for life.. since i got my first AMD K6 i never had anything else then AMD! Intel is like Gforce and Apple for people that "want" to pay a dumb tax on hardware.
I think adding the extra 8 E cores, just made the I9 too power hungry. I have had to tweak my bios to limit the power to 253 w. and so far not had any issues.
Such a stupid thing to have to do. Who buys a Bugatti and then they're told that the turbos crack easy so just lower your psi resulting in less power and completely negating the purpose of spending the extra money to get the car. That's what you're doing limiting a CPU. Don't cope like this. Just go AMD man 😂
Xeon 9480 20-40 P cores which model no e cores ONLY P cores Extremely strong performance made to work 24 x 7 for decades takes less power or similar to 13900k interesting facts. They could use that power design ohk server processor consumer processor not same but if you can do then try with consumer one.
Basically what exactly is raptor lake i9 12900k change the designs to increase core counts and clock it higher we got 13900k 14900k ocer clock a 13900k amd increase it's wattage. Then people boost a over clocked processor. Those fancy names this technology implemented thst implemented on paper but reality what stability feature you added say again. Atleast for consumer CPUs
Before AMD's Ryzen series, the Intel CPUs were so overpriced it was insane. I'm happy about their downfall because for many years I couldn't afford a decent PC because they were so expensive. This is karma.
the worst is that there is no way to know if your cpu is affected until you start seeing the problems. Also a tip that i have read is that there some theories that claim that the AC LL may also have something to do with the degradation, some people on r/Intel have point out that people should try to lower their AC LL to the lowest possible value in order to help the mitigate the possible effects that high voltage may have on their CPU. It may not be a solution but is better to be safe for now until Intel release the microcode update ( not sure if that would actually solve the issue but at least is something )
I've used both AMD and Intel, most of the time I can't tell the difference. Glad I went with the 12th gen chip on 790 chipset, even under heavy load never gets above 60C and in low 20's at idle and clocks are always stable. Having said that, I don't think I'll use Intel again since they refuse to help the customer. Once again a failed executive management screws over the customer. Whirlpool, LG, Samsung and Asus are a few that have done the same thing
This isn't good. If intel goes kaput, The CPU market is going to be very unhealthy for a while. AMD will get complacent just like intel was during AMD's bulldozer years. Maybe Intel will even reconsider giving Nvidia an X86 license.
Yep mines in an RMA state heading off to the Netherlands as we speak. Video memory exception codes, games hanging and even Asobo have possibly wasted so much time fixing crash to desktop concerns in MSFS2020 by providing software patches once every four months or so, and it turns out it’s most likely the processor probably all along. I’ll stick my name down for CAL if it goes ahead.
If Intel go bankrupt, would you be happy? Tell me how it would improve the situation for pc enthousiasts who have been building their own pc for decades. Less competition means higher prices and less choice. We should all be hoping for Intel to survive this crisis, even if they owe it to themselves. I've built computers with Intel and with AMD, and I've never been too happy about AMD because of driver issues. The root cause of Intel's issues with 13th and 14th gen is most probably the substrate that separates the stacked layers. i7 and especially i9-CPUs have too many processors for a limited amount of space, meaning you get hot spots inside. The substrate tends to weaken at high temperatures. If there is too much pressure from the cooler on the CPU because it's overtightened this can cause your CPU to fry.
My friend was also an intel fan and also an nvidia fan but i got him to switch to the almighty best gaming chip the 7800x3d and a radeon card cause F intel and nvidia. Its funny because i was an intel+nvidia fan and now am going full amd baby!
Been intel since the the 2000s, now for the first time ever ive switched to AMD and i wont ever go back, currently running a Ryzen 9 79503Dx paired with a 4090, 10/10 performance with said cpu though i hear the cheaper 78003Dx is better for gaming and cheaper
Well also Intel waste precious money and research and development and technology on worthless arc GPUs that cannot beat rtx 2000 rather spend those important investment and time and technicians to cpus .
There was a saying through the years when AMD and Intel were competing for the business market. "No one ever got fired for buying Intel". Truly a brave New world
I had been an Intel user all my life. My Core i7 5930k broke down after more than 7 good years of constant oc at 4.5 GHz and I had to build a new rig fast since I also use it for typing work and basic photoshop aside from gaming. After I compared 14900k with 7800X3D I was very impressed with how advance the cpu is and it was even built on 5nm rather than 7nm like 14900k so I decided to jump ship and try AMD for the first time in my life. It is running flawlessly so far and really easy to cool!! With this issue that is going on with Intel chips I was blown away how I narrowly escaped this nightmare.
12th would be afected too if they are factory clocked high and with more voltage as 13th &14th gen which are basically only oclocked 12th gen with more cores
I have had a i7-14700 since March 2024. I have had zero issues with this CPU. Other than doing the occasional ML training on the CPU I don't run this CPU at max power very often. This video is mostly FUD and the problem really only manifests itself if the BIOS has be set to overclock the CPU and has exceeded 1.55V a lot over the lifetime of the CPU. If you're building your own PC: 1) use proper cooling 2) overclock with minimal over-volting or don't overclock at all. 3) stay up to date on your BIOS updates. Puget Systems has said that they don't see the issues reported in this video. This is because Puget Systems takes a conservative approach to tweaking for performance. Which is fine because in multi-thread, creator focused workloads Intel CPUs outperform everything AMD makes except for their workstation class Threadripper line of CPUs.
What's really bad is that they're switching sockets next Gen making all of the boards destined to eventually downgrade to 12th Gen, or abandoned with no upgrade path. Microcode won't solve these issues given that part of the issue is material to do with their heat spreaders
This same exact issue has occurred with AMD in the past. Both companies are trying to compete for the market space and modern day coolers can’t keep up.
i don't believe this is exclusive to 13th and 14th gen alone. this problem has much deeper roots that i think people are really overlooking imo. i have an 8th gen I7 in Base clock on my machine right now (6yo use). and i suspect the chip is suffering from the same issues of degradation than the more modern ones, albeit in a much slower fashion than the other ones. long story short: for all intents and purposes, this CPU serves me well. but i am starting to see that it is failing with faulty readings to memory in the NVME reading. trying to Raid memories when it isn't configured to do so and so on. the NVME memory is new (less than a year) and was tested on other machines no problem for hours (5 days ago even) to no end also, so no, the Stick is guaranteed good. the mobo sockets also were tested for power voltages and fluctuations, which gave me and other people testing it on the workshop no abnormal readings whatsoever for hours on end (PSU was also tested with norma readings despite age). so there is no way any of this parts is the problem in question.
i can't say i've been affected but my i9 is a pain in the rear end to configure it to run fast and remain stable, I've lost count of the amount of times I've been into the BIOS, easily into the 100's for that reason i'm going to upgrade to a new 9000 AMD CPU
If it was me running Intel, I would not do a recall, I put out the micro code fix, even if it means lowering voltage and thereby dropping some frequency of the chip, but I would RMA any defective chips with solid evidence the chip in question is damaged including the boxed purchase sales receipt. I would however recall all the non sold boxed CPU's from retailers, and go through them and redo the micro coding and then send them out to be sold with whatever newest specs on the box, so those who do buy do so buying knowingly what the chip specs are.. so if they take a chip like the 14900k which is running at 6.0 mhz and the updated micro code drops that down to 5.7, then so be it, just label it as such.. so long as the chip then is a solid chip and NOT degrading.. and then also put out that you will not be replacing any chips which get over clocked either. you over clock you loose the warranty for it.. and I would get my team of chip makers back to work looking to improve the next batch of chips for gen 15.. and honestly I would move away from splitting cores from P and E cores.. I would simply make chips all P cores. and maybe a couple of all E core chips if its something which would be purchased.. And I would feel pretty good about having laid off some of the workers I did lay off to help the company stop hemorrhaging financial losses..
I can't tell if you're being serious... I mean you essentially just listed things someone who wanted to bankrupt the company while acting like a big douche in the process. It's almost impressive how awful these ideas are! 🤯
I own a 13600k, and while I haven't noticed issues yet I've been checking for Bios updates weekly (I had one a couple weeks back) and fearful that I could lose my CPU before I want to do a new build (I usually build every 8 years and I just did this one last year)
Now, exactly, does the i9 processor of the 12th generation of the K series face these problems or not? Do you think that overclocking this CPU might endanger the CPU? This is the question of many users, please answer
Hello. The issues are likely caused by the Intel ME Manager consuming so much power it breaks the cpu, which over heat them. The ME Manager is sadly always running in the background even if your pc is turned off, it will run so long as electricity flows through it.
They could be getting sued by their shareholders for not mentioning the Raptor Lake "issues" as a potential cause of loss of value as well as potential class action lawsuits. I'd keep Pat Gelsinger though as there's no one else who'd take on this poisoned chalice.
Intel had a similar problem not too long ago with C2000 chips. That got a lot less press since they were mostly in switches, but some NAS devices had them as well. And those were SoC systems so it's not even like you could replace the chip.
Anyone who claps for Intel's downfall - prepare for jacked up AMD prices Latest AMD Ryzen 9 9950X was projected to launch at 499.99 USD, after Intel's scandal got really hot AMD delayed the launch (about 3 reasons why), then pricing went up to 599.99 USD, and now it will launch with 649.99 USD So...anyone who claps for Intel's downfall is not very bright, because we...lose in the end. If Intel falls AMD becomes Intel and dictates the pricing and innovations as well. Like 4 cores of Intel for 11+ years as a flagship
I feel sorry for those folks who got laid off. Hope all would find new jobs soon. But I am happy to see Intel going down. Hope Intel will stay there or go under, I don't care.
It's called deserving because of how that damn company behaves.
100%
I've always used AMD because they were cheaper. They weren't always "better" but I could at least afford it. When Ryzen launched, all the Intel fan-boys were poking fun at the people using AMD. They seemed to have quieted down a bit in the coming years.
Same. I've used only AMDs and Cyrix from back in the day. Intel was too expensive. It's thanks to AMD and Cyrix that my not-rich family could afford pcs. During that time, they were not the fastest or best, but they were stable and gave me wonderful childhood memories. When I bought the Phenom, Phenom II, Sempron and FX, Intel fanboys laughed and said I was too poor to enjoy pcs. Now, am rocking a 5800x3d + 6700xt. I could now afford to buy the highest end parts but would always stick to AMDs. Thanks AMD (and Cyrix).
@djlim4612 my first build was a Cyrix 6x86 166 with 128mb RAM, 3DFX voodoo 1 card with pass through to a STB Vga card and 540mb hard drive. The upgrade from my 386 16mhz was amazing! I couldn't even afford a case to put it in. The mobo just sat on my desk. (Maybe it was 32mb of RAM., it was so long ago)
@@wadz668 haha same CPU! My 1st Cyrix was also the 6x86 p-166+ , but unfortunately it was paired with the abysmal 3d Virge initially. Then I've also replaced it with also the 3DFX Voodoo. Good times. That same CPU is now on display on my shelf. It's a beautiful golden CPU. My next PC was another Cyrix, the M II. I was so sad when Cyrix stopped making cpu.
I built my first custom PC 5 years ago (Ryzen 3600 + RX 580 8GB). It has served me so well that now that I have upgraded, I have stuck with AMD (Ryzen 7950X3D + 7900 XTX) and haven't really considered Intel and Nvidia due to their insane prices.
Absolutely no regrets for the couple months I had this build. Love my AMDarling.
I dodged a bullet there, I almost picked Intel because I wanted to get the lga1700 but for some reason I picked the am5 and it gave me the weird vibes about intel so my upgrade path is good to go.
When Intel had the product advantage, it decided to milk the situation. This lead to a laid-back attitude and years of stagnation on the market. All of these years could have been spent on diligent research and product development at max capacity. The resulting deficit still haunts Intel to this date…
Part of the gutting of Western Civilization.
Being new-ish to the PC building community/culture, I was unaware of Intel's bullshit, but I can say thank you to the community who advised me to go with AMD for my first build's CPU.
@@minihalkoja590 I always used to stick with intel / Nvidia in the past, but I’ll definitely be looking elsewhere for my next PC build personally
I stick with amd since 2000 because they are underdog on that time but I believe they will go up someday and its happen now
People should never go back to Intel. If they rip you off one time. They can do it again..
They lost me and I was a lifelong customer. Hello AMD I am finally coming to you.
Intel fans are much like Apple fans, and console players, they will never switch.
@@railshot888let them cry 😂
lol, you should say the same thing about traveling on Boeing plane.
Then you vant buy any cpus
No recall because (based on their last earnings report) they literally can't afford it.
Maybe their executive branch shouldn't be paid as well as they are then. I'm sure management is sucking the company dry with inflated salaries
Once the story goes main stream (still seems to be limited to the enthusiast community), no one with any sense is going to buy an Intel based system until confidence returns (two or three years away) so they won't have the cash flow to sustain a recall program either.
Untold billions in stock buybacks have badly depleted their cash.
for years, intel milking us, change motherboard for every generation of CPU. Yes, they deserve it
So glad their motherboards are dead platform becuz in future no intel lol
@@farazsiddiqui1312 I am so happy with my b450 from the ryzen 2000 and just upgraded 5800x without any problems
@@farazsiddiqui1312 and you think its a good ting ? you guys are low IQ.if ther is no competition .AMD well go ham on your as.s.
I doubt the issues are just microcode. Its obviously a hardware issue and intel is just doing PR cleanup.
Yeah, very scummy company
Search the Ring Bus issue if you want to know what’s really happening with the 13th 14th gen chips
@@eg9574 Exactly, the leading hypothesis right now is that the ring bus can't handle the high voltage that the cores need to clock to the advertised speeds. A microcode update could fix that, although potentially at the cost of performance. We simply don't know at the moment.
we already know that high voltages are the issue, the more voltage you push through the chip the more unstable the CPU gets and the faster it degrades. Lower the Voltages to 1.3 to 1.45 V's and the issue is gone. That is what the microcode will fix, but when the CPU already degraded to much the CPU must be RMA'd
The issue is neither bios nor microcode. It's the motherboard manufacturers that crank up the settings to maximize performance. Now, intel is going to release a microcode that will put a hard limit on all these parameters, which should sort out the issue.
And the fanboys still buy Intel. 2% faster but 100% more power draw... BUT THE 2%!!!!
They stay loyal to their brand just like nvidia fans who get a card under a 4090 do because they want to stay with their brand they used for years
Xeon processor 40 P cores has less power draw then 13900k great no effort in consume CPUs full effort for industrial one's
brand loyalty is a real thing 😂
600w max draw cpu with only a few percentage gain over a ryzen running at 150w max watt draw 😂
combine that cpu with a 4090, you are drawing out close to 1500w, no one in europe thinks it's worth the electric bills
Faster doesn’t quite matter when your L3 cache can’t catch up
Intel didn't adapt, and they took short cuts to hit benchmarks that weren't realistic for certain chips causing overheating and other issues.
They were trying to keep up with competition without putting in the actual work.
Agreed, they’ve been playing catch up for years at this point
most companies are doing this now, shortcuts to short term profit gains, doing that will lose customer trust eventually as it leads to unreliable lower quality products. Firing 15k employees is also a means to maintain profits short term, but then how are they going to replace the work 15k people contributed, will that result in even lower quality product
Very very well said
I hope AMD doesn’t hire the laid off Intel employees.
Are the employees the problem, or management & investors wanting "big payoff"? I am honestly asking; I don't know.
After AMD's absolutely BRILLIANT success with the greatest x86 platform ever made (AM4), anyone who STILL bought Intel is a fanboy and deserves what they get.
There are ZERO real advantages to Intel CPUs today. They use too much juice and therefore run hot, their platforms are still two-gen until a new motherboard and their CPUs are bloody expensive!
When I bought my FX-8350 back in 2012, it wasn't because I thought it would out-perform Ivy Bridge or Devil's Canyon, it was because I was a university student and it was only $170CAD! It also used too much power, ran hot and didn't have anywhere near the performance of an i7 but it was also 1/2 the price of an i5 and 1/3 the price of an i7.
If Intel was selling their CPUs for cheap, then I could totally understand why people are still buying them, but they're not. The biggest reason is pure fanboyism.
Its also some companies meat riding their features like intel quick sync which helps with some editing programs while they should not meatride them nor nvidia
Agree
AM5 is a MONSTER, I love AM4 it is one of the greatest x86 architectures but AM5 has massive legs and huge potential.
Lisa Su must be grinning from ear to ear right now.
@@jamesbondeson669 💀💀💀
If she is actually a good leader, she wouldn't be.
She would be, "doubling her efforts," to make sure similar thing doesn't happen to AMD while she's in charge.
@@catsspat That is what Lisa Su is doing. She purposefully delayed Zen 5 launching, and AMD puposefully locked OC settings within the BIOS to push a huge power efficiency gap between Zen 4 and Zen 5. 65W TDP under a full workload is no joke!
Good luck having Intel EVER release a 65W CPU that isn't an Intel Celeron. Intel is now a joke.
Just to clarify, Intel originally blamed their motherboard partners and when that didn't fly, they changed to blaming their customers. However I did learn something I didn't know about was Apple's concern with Intel's quality control. Interesting!
I am really surprised by Intel's workforce. They had 100k people and yet were losing to amd with 35k people who is also up against Nvidia's 30k employees and up against Qualcomm's 50k+ employees. Intel is and has been and will be a let down.
The biggest disappointment with Intel is their complete inability to move into anything else. In fact, they're arguably contracting as they sell off divisions over time. For example, Intel once competed with Qualcomm in the cellular modem space but then they sold the division to Apple. Currently they're treading water with graphics and sending out mixed signals to their commitment level, which doesn't inspire confidence. Speaking of contracting, Intel's AI business is *shrinking,* again, somehow. It's like losing money selling shovels during the gold rush.
Intel actually manufactures chips and operates its own fabs. Nvidia, Qualcomm, AMD don’t actually make anything. They just design the chips and have TSMC or Samsung make the products.
Intel has Boeing, Beancounters over engineers
*MY RECOMMENDATION...*
1) REFUND your Intel CPU if you can,
2) Replace with an AMD AM5 CPU (and motherboard)
3) sell the Intel motherboard (all the other parts should be compatible)
*Will the Microcode actually fix existing CPU's? Do you want to sit there with the UNCERTAINTY that it won't? Will you wonder every time you get an error if it's your CPU failing? Just bite the bullet, swap to AM5 and move on...
I think you may be overestimating the resale value a used z790 board will command.
Other than that, I agree.
Get a refund on all that you can.
sad i bought i9 13 gen unaware of these issues, and to top of that a rog z790 motherboard :(
If you bought stock in 1997, and you sold today, you would receive back exactly the same money, minus trading fee of course.
No , you would receive less because of inflation, $21 dollars now is worth way less than 1997 $21.
@@davidgreen424 that is why I ,said same money and not same net present value.
@@Hjominbonrun okay then .
As I recall, the stock market went nowhere for 18 years, just bounced up and down in 6-year cycles.
Intel has always operated shady and just paid a small pitance afterwards it's how they've always operated.
i don’t understand, intel has always ran hot af, I was saying intel was garbage a few years ago, but i never EVER expected it to be this messed up lol
Why hasn't Intel fired its CEO yet? Pat is by far the worst CEO Intel ever had.
Actually Pat has been one of the better decision makers in comparison to all the other CEOs. The hand he was dealt with though is the worst and we are seeing decades of wrongdoing just coming to light
@@OneKyox yeah the 13th/14th gen issues is the icing on the cake really
His investments pay off 2027 a bit .. 2030 I can see amazing pay off from these investments that have lead to tough times .. arrow lake also looks amazing out around October
did you forgot the ceo that brougth itanium or the one that said dell is the best friend money can buy?
intel does things like this always, it is their natural way pf do things, bring errors and try to make people pay them for such errors
@@OneKyoxsay that papa pat that os moving the company into only fab for others, no new chips as it has always been the plan tells me you dont understand what is comming, and i think you will not lile it
I always shaking my head that friends still by Intel... Nearly every Generation was worse than AMD since 2017... And in all categories: safety, stability, power consumption, heat, performance (this came a bit later with their 3D chips) and price.
I run my AMD chips since 486 dx120 and they are stable as hell... I one time switched to Intel and than had a lot of Bluescreens, but since I switched back to AMD in 2016 not a single Bluescreen and wonderful price to performance ratio... The market share should be the opposite - Intel had (sometimes even massive) problems with all their CPUs in the last decade... But still many people think Intel is better
People are slow to switch unless an event becomes strikingly apparent like maybe this blunder from intel.
I stopped buying Insmell and never recommended them after what they did to mobo manufacturers after the AMD K7 Athlon was released in 1999. They literally bribed and strong-armed motherboard makers not to produce Slot A boards for the Athlon. When I bought an Asus K7M board for that CPU, it officially came in a plain unmarked white box because of this anticompetitive behavior from Insmell. They just got a slap in the wrist, a few billions $ in fine (which was just 1 quarter's worth of revenue for them back then) from US regulators for that. It has always been a scumbag company, no different from Crapple, M$, nGreedia, Meta, etc.
Could this be Karma for Paying Dell, HP, Alienware, and other PC makers to NOT use AMD during the AthlonXP and Athlon64 days?
I first learned about the fundamental design flaw on the io and ringbus around 6 months after the issues where first reported in 13900, seeing Wendel reporting that even the low power 13900T where dying with W680 motherboards really put the proof out there that it wasn't voltages, even though it's a contributing factor. They made space for more E cores and in doing so made it far more fragile. All those affected by this deserve to get a 12900KS for free and the difference paid back in full.
Agreed, Intel is just kicking the can down the road with their attempts to avoid a recall
Amazing how it took businesses speaking out for the issue to be acknowledged and addressed. Shows you what Intel truly thinks of their customer base.
Couldn't happen to a nicer company!
Great Video, Please Change your background tho
yea wtf is that....
Intel was the one that stagnated CPU development and limited CPUs to 4 cores, until AMD came along and forced them to make 8 cores at reasonable prices. They're also the ones that prevented ECC (error correcting code) memory from being used on consumer PCs for their own profit agenda. They're also the ones that change motherboard socket practically every generation so consumers would be forced to buy a new motherboard with their new CPUs. Despite their unsavory practices they nonetheless has introduced themselves as a potential competitor in the GPU market which is in bad need of some competition. Considering how sparse competition is in the CPU space as well, having one less competitor in the CPU market is going to be a bad thing if Intel goes down.
Ever since Ryzen, Intel was doomed. My i9-11900H is fine, but I know that a Ryzen 5900HS would have done me better.
Decades of anti-competitive behavior has finally caught up with them.
After the ARC graphics cards and now this degrading issue I can't trust intel at all. They are just throwing any piece of junk at us they can and hoping we don't complain.
That's more of an apple to oranges comparison; ARC was a brand new product line, and teething issues are to be expected. Yes there drivers were terrible at launch, but Radeon's drivers also had tons of issues early on. And Intel did improve there drivers by leaps and bounds in the last year; and I haven't heard of any permanent damage or failures with ARC. Now the CPU problem are definitely something to be concerned with, particularly how long they knew about the problems and said/did nothing. Makes me glad I've leaned Ryzen the last few years.
I mentioned to my local PC builder I was thinking about building a new rig, and he pushed me hard into Intel, I mentioned the various JZ2C videos and he showed me a box full of dead Ryzens, yet I haven't really heard much about dead Ryzens all over the place. I guess he must get much better profit margins on Intel builds.
When they lose key engineers that will be the end. That paraphrased statement from the HR director was ominous
Well, at least I'm not using anything that's affected, but this is definitely something I'm going to remember and keep in mind, let's hope AMD actually takes advantage of this and price things decently
@@bengamincopper6508 definitely, if they can fix their gpu drivers AMD will be wayy ahead
AMD 9000 series pricing leaked and they are lower than 7000 series upon their release
The massive difference in performance between 6600k vs 6700k was so massive, that now a 12600k vs a 12700K is MERELY 15%!!
6 gen was a joke..running at 2133...
I3 12100 runs ddr5 6000
Thanks to ryzen
6600k was terrible, it was worst than 3770. And you need 300 dollars mobo n cooling to perform max
Intel spent too long unchallenged on top of the mountain, when AMD actually started sorting their act out Intel could have either got it together or hoped that their loyal army of fanboys would support them. They chose the later and now Intel & their minions are paying the price.
You know your multi-billion dollar company has been hella mismanaged when it can't afford bananas in the rec room.
Apple have been working on their own silicon plans for years, they have changed like 4 times their CPU architectures. I am not an apple fan at all, but they have a smart business plan in making it all in house, so they can control the entire platform, and have made their products like a brand as must have like the high-end fashion labels, if you want to be cool, you need to pay more!
Intel spent 6 years from 2700K to 7700K that probably gave 20% of performance boost on avg daily tasks. That's a crime to humanity imo.
Uh that background game me a seizure though
OP should have added a warning
Intel fails and goes away! Chip prices will triple.
Definitely would be monopoly concerns with AMD if they did actually collapse. I think I recall hearing Intel helped bail AMD put to avoid the risk of being a monopoly, so I wouldn’t be surprised if someone lends them a credit like if it really gets bad
As long the share value is above 13$ it won't the moment it falls below hold of it's decreasing as diminishing rate gold if at increasing rate straight up pull back
Btw the NVDIA share growth rate can't be valued the way you said it split into smaller parts even though it's over valued you can charge the growth on Google finance it's half of the times 20 miñ slower then not very accurate if you take before split it's like double the growth rate. @@blags2
Shares are over valued the growth is under valued after split
Well, there is Qualcomm getting into the Windows market now with ARM, so not entirely a monopoly. Also, lots of talk about RISC-V processors coming.
i have an i5 13600k undervolted for 1 year , not a single crash ... do you think should i get rid of it !!! and go for 7800x3d ?
Less susceptible to happen on the 13600k or 14600k which i have, my recommendation is to use Intel settings but then again if until now you had zero issues your cpu seems to be ok and has probably not been affected by the oxidation issue of the early 13th gen.
Im wondering. Didnt Bidens office ran something like a chips act? Really curious how thats gonna hold up since the company lost over -48,80% stock in 6 months time..
I have a 13900k with this problem, amd for life now
AMD for life.. since i got my first AMD K6 i never had anything else then AMD! Intel is like Gforce and Apple for people that "want" to pay a dumb tax on hardware.
intel has been shit since forever, AMD being much smaller ALWAYS being the innovator in the x86 space
I think adding the extra 8 E cores, just made the I9 too power hungry. I have had to tweak my bios to limit the power to 253 w. and so far not had any issues.
Such a stupid thing to have to do. Who buys a Bugatti and then they're told that the turbos crack easy so just lower your psi resulting in less power and completely negating the purpose of spending the extra money to get the car. That's what you're doing limiting a CPU. Don't cope like this. Just go AMD man 😂
Xeon 9480 20-40 P cores which model no e cores ONLY P cores Extremely strong performance made to work 24 x 7 for decades takes less power or similar to 13900k interesting facts.
They could use that power design ohk server processor consumer processor not same but if you can do then try with consumer one.
Funny part is that they fire 15000 employees, but the manager who took these brilliant decisions continues there
Only xeon scalable 4+ have decent i/o and Isa nowadays but the prices are ridiculous.
Basically what exactly is raptor lake
i9 12900k change the designs to increase core counts and clock it higher we got 13900k
14900k ocer clock a 13900k amd increase it's wattage.
Then people boost a over clocked processor.
Those fancy names this technology implemented thst implemented on paper but reality what stability feature you added say again. Atleast for consumer CPUs
Before AMD's Ryzen series, the Intel CPUs were so overpriced it was insane.
I'm happy about their downfall because for many years I couldn't afford a decent PC because they were so expensive. This is karma.
Intel, Windows 11, Armoury Crate = good 😂
This is called carma for all the dodgy nonsense they pulled in the early 2000's 😂😂😂
That flickering background is terrible. But great video
Got it, yeah I'll avoid that in future, a couple of ppl mentioned it
He is recording with 14900k, artifacts bro
@@anthonynehoda2064 haha
the worst is that there is no way to know if your cpu is affected until you start seeing the problems.
Also a tip that i have read is that there some theories that claim that the AC LL may also have something to do with the degradation, some people on r/Intel have point out that people should try to lower their AC LL to the lowest possible value in order to help the mitigate the possible effects that high voltage may have on their CPU.
It may not be a solution but is better to be safe for now until Intel release the microcode update ( not sure if that would actually solve the issue but at least is something )
I've used both AMD and Intel, most of the time I can't tell the difference. Glad I went with the 12th gen chip on 790 chipset, even under heavy load never gets above 60C and in low 20's at idle and clocks are always stable.
Having said that, I don't think I'll use Intel again since they refuse to help the customer. Once again a failed executive management screws over the customer. Whirlpool, LG, Samsung and Asus are a few that have done the same thing
This isn't good. If intel goes kaput, The CPU market is going to be very unhealthy for a while. AMD will get complacent just like intel was during AMD's bulldozer years. Maybe Intel will even reconsider giving Nvidia an X86 license.
Yep mines in an RMA state heading off to the Netherlands as we speak. Video memory exception codes, games hanging and even Asobo have possibly wasted so much time fixing crash to desktop concerns in MSFS2020 by providing software patches once every four months or so, and it turns out it’s most likely the processor probably all along. I’ll stick my name down for CAL if it goes ahead.
Update, I have a replacement one being shipped back to me only after a day of delivery to them.
Boeing, Intel, Apple is next
Seems that my dual core is not affected!
If Intel go bankrupt, would you be happy? Tell me how it would improve the situation for pc enthousiasts who have been building their own pc for decades.
Less competition means higher prices and less choice. We should all be hoping for Intel to survive this crisis, even if they owe it to themselves.
I've built computers with Intel and with AMD, and I've never been too happy about AMD because of driver issues.
The root cause of Intel's issues with 13th and 14th gen is most probably the substrate that separates the stacked layers. i7 and especially i9-CPUs have too many processors for a limited amount of space, meaning you get hot spots inside. The substrate tends to weaken at high temperatures. If there is too much pressure from the cooler on the CPU because it's overtightened this can cause your CPU to fry.
I don't want Intel to fail even as I have a full AMD build. Competition is good for us consumers.
And people wonder why I’ve been an AMD fanboi for the last decade…
My friend was also an intel fan and also an nvidia fan but i got him to switch to the almighty best gaming chip the 7800x3d and a radeon card cause F intel and nvidia. Its funny because i was an intel+nvidia fan and now am going full amd baby!
Intel really can't get past 10nm
Been intel since the the 2000s, now for the first time ever ive switched to AMD and i wont ever go back, currently running a Ryzen 9 79503Dx paired with a 4090, 10/10 performance with said cpu though i hear the cheaper 78003Dx is better for gaming and cheaper
Also AM5 socket support till 2029 means easy to upgrade the processor if needed in the future which sweatens the pot.
Intel better call Saul
Well also Intel waste precious money and research and development and technology on worthless arc GPUs that cannot beat rtx 2000 rather spend those important investment and time and technicians to cpus .
If you have that out of memory error already your cpu is basically kia
especially if it’s frequent, CPU probably been cooking itself for months at that point
@@blags2 yeah better start that rma process 😂😂
@@jittertn
I have a I9 13900k without XMP on i haven't really experienced any crashes yet but the site are stating updating the bio would fix this ?
There was a saying through the years when AMD and Intel were competing for the business market. "No one ever got fired for buying Intel".
Truly a brave New world
I had been an Intel user all my life. My Core i7 5930k broke down after more than 7 good years of constant oc at 4.5 GHz and I had to build a new rig fast since I also use it for typing work and basic photoshop aside from gaming. After I compared 14900k with 7800X3D I was very impressed with how advance the cpu is and it was even built on 5nm rather than 7nm like 14900k so I decided to jump ship and try AMD for the first time in my life. It is running flawlessly so far and really easy to cool!! With this issue that is going on with Intel chips I was blown away how I narrowly escaped this nightmare.
i did the mistake of getting that intel cheap and i had so much problems im glad u were smart
12th would be afected too if they are factory clocked high and with more voltage as 13th &14th gen which are basically only oclocked 12th gen with more cores
I don't believe Intel deserve this rant they have produced a lot of good products over the years and effectively created the PC gaming industry.
now it's time for manufacturers to start making AMD socket motherboards as beautiful as the intel ones.
Well now that they aren't selling CPU's, they are probably going to shut the GPU side down. Nice work guys.
I have had a i7-14700 since March 2024. I have had zero issues with this CPU. Other than doing the occasional ML training on the CPU I don't run this CPU at max power very often.
This video is mostly FUD and the problem really only manifests itself if the BIOS has be set to overclock the CPU and has exceeded 1.55V a lot over the lifetime of the CPU.
If you're building your own PC: 1) use proper cooling 2) overclock with minimal over-volting or don't overclock at all. 3) stay up to date on your BIOS updates.
Puget Systems has said that they don't see the issues reported in this video. This is because Puget Systems takes a conservative approach to tweaking for performance. Which is fine because in multi-thread, creator focused workloads Intel CPUs outperform everything AMD makes except for their workstation class Threadripper line of CPUs.
I am just waiting for the August update before I ask for a replacement. Don't want my replacement to get degraded fast also.
What's really bad is that they're switching sockets next Gen making all of the boards destined to eventually downgrade to 12th Gen, or abandoned with no upgrade path. Microcode won't solve these issues given that part of the issue is material to do with their heat spreaders
Apple has singlehandedly funded research of the newest nodes for the past few years. Losing them is the end of their fab sector
This same exact issue has occurred with AMD in the past. Both companies are trying to compete for the market space and modern day coolers can’t keep up.
i don't believe this is exclusive to 13th and 14th gen alone. this problem has much deeper roots that i think people are really overlooking imo.
i have an 8th gen I7 in Base clock on my machine right now (6yo use). and i suspect the chip is suffering from the same issues of degradation than the more modern ones, albeit in a much slower fashion than the other ones.
long story short: for all intents and purposes, this CPU serves me well. but i am starting to see that it is failing with faulty readings to memory in the NVME reading. trying to Raid memories when it isn't configured to do so and so on. the NVME memory is new (less than a year) and was tested on other machines no problem for hours (5 days ago even) to no end also, so no, the Stick is guaranteed good. the mobo sockets also were tested for power voltages and fluctuations, which gave me and other people testing it on the workshop no abnormal readings whatsoever for hours on end (PSU was also tested with norma readings despite age). so there is no way any of this parts is the problem in question.
Absolutely deserved! They sat on their hands while AMD innovated. I have a permanently bricked i9-13900k.
My condolences, did you manage getting money back?
@@blags2 Not yet.
Intel 12700k and 12900k are still the best value ddr5 processors to date
i can't say i've been affected but my i9 is a pain in the rear end to configure it to run fast and remain stable, I've lost count of the amount of times I've been into the BIOS, easily into the 100's for that reason i'm going to upgrade to a new 9000 AMD CPU
This is what happens when you prioritize profits over actually delivering a solid product that will keep customers coming back.
Part of Intel's problem is the success of Windows. But with Windows on ARM now available...
If it was me running Intel, I would not do a recall, I put out the micro code fix, even if it means lowering voltage and thereby dropping some frequency of the chip, but I would RMA any defective chips with solid evidence the chip in question is damaged including the boxed purchase sales receipt. I would however recall all the non sold boxed CPU's from retailers, and go through them and redo the micro coding and then send them out to be sold with whatever newest specs on the box, so those who do buy do so buying knowingly what the chip specs are.. so if they take a chip like the 14900k which is running at 6.0 mhz and the updated micro code drops that down to 5.7, then so be it, just label it as such.. so long as the chip then is a solid chip and NOT degrading.. and then also put out that you will not be replacing any chips which get over clocked either. you over clock you loose the warranty for it.. and I would get my team of chip makers back to work looking to improve the next batch of chips for gen 15.. and honestly I would move away from splitting cores from P and E cores.. I would simply make chips all P cores. and maybe a couple of all E core chips if its something which would be purchased.. And I would feel pretty good about having laid off some of the workers I did lay off to help the company stop hemorrhaging financial losses..
I can't tell if you're being serious... I mean you essentially just listed things someone who wanted to bankrupt the company while acting like a big douche in the process. It's almost impressive how awful these ideas are! 🤯
I own a 13600k, and while I haven't noticed issues yet I've been checking for Bios updates weekly (I had one a couple weeks back) and fearful that I could lose my CPU before I want to do a new build (I usually build every 8 years and I just did this one last year)
@@afterglow-podcast same here :/
Now, exactly, does the i9 processor of the 12th generation of the K series face these problems or not? Do you think that overclocking this CPU might endanger the CPU? This is the question of many users, please answer
Its a shame that intel fails, this will mean that AMD has no competition which is not good for prices or advancement
So I guess the new CEO is not better than the previous ones.
Used to be so reliable. My everyday 5820k rig still going strong wit the same install of windows 10 from 8 years ago.
Hello.
The issues are likely caused by the Intel ME Manager consuming so much power it breaks the cpu, which over heat them.
The ME Manager is sadly always running in the background even if your pc is turned off, it will run so long as electricity flows through it.
They could be getting sued by their shareholders for not mentioning the Raptor Lake "issues" as a potential cause of loss of value as well as potential class action lawsuits. I'd keep Pat Gelsinger though as there's no one else who'd take on this poisoned chalice.
Intel had a similar problem not too long ago with C2000 chips. That got a lot less press since they were mostly in switches, but some NAS devices had them as well. And those were SoC systems so it's not even like you could replace the chip.
We still need Intel to compete against AMD if AMD ever falls in Intel's footsteps.
A CPUs life expectency is normally over several decades of runtime...
If the quality is high and the temps stable below 90°C
Anyone who claps for Intel's downfall - prepare for jacked up AMD prices
Latest AMD Ryzen 9 9950X was projected to launch at 499.99 USD, after Intel's scandal got really hot AMD delayed the launch (about 3 reasons why), then pricing went up to 599.99 USD, and now it will launch with 649.99 USD
So...anyone who claps for Intel's downfall is not very bright, because we...lose in the end.
If Intel falls AMD becomes Intel and dictates the pricing and innovations as well.
Like 4 cores of Intel for 11+ years as a flagship
Well said. We need competition - not downfalls and monopolies
I feel sorry for those folks who got laid off. Hope all would find new jobs soon. But I am happy to see Intel going down. Hope Intel will stay there or go under, I don't care.